Patterico's Pontifications

2/23/2015

Rudy Giuliani: My Bluntness Overshadowed My Message

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:49 am



Rudy:

There has been no shortage of news coverage—and criticism—regarding comments I made about President Obama at a political gathering last week in New York. My blunt language suggesting that the president doesn’t love America notwithstanding, I didn’t intend to question President Obama’s motives or the content of his heart. My intended focus really was the effect his words and his actions have on the morale of the country, and how that effect may damage his performance. Let me explain.

I like Dr. Mike K’s view of Obama: he pretty much loves himself and that’s it. But I agree that the effect of Obama’s actions matter more to me than trying to look into his “heart.”

The rest of the piece is about American exceptionalism. To the extent that such a thing as “American exceptionalism” still exists — and I think it does — it lies in the spirit of the Founding Fathers, which is still alive in some of the country. Barack Obama does not believe in the spirit of the Founding Fathers. More importantly, he does everything humanly possible to undermine what those Founding Fathers bequeathed to us.

But, frankly? I care more about what the Fed is doing (creating another asset bubble) and what Obama’s debt is doing (continuing our slide into financial ruin) than I care about whether the Narcissist in Chief loves his country or not.

158 Responses to “Rudy Giuliani: My Bluntness Overshadowed My Message”

  1. Ding.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  2. I knew it was too good to last.

    nk (dbc370)

  3. Mayor Rudy’s bluntness did NOT overshadow his message

    you can tell by how Obama’s kneepad media was crying like little girls

    his message was loud and clear

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  4. The MFM was in full on high dudgeon this weekend. Their hypocrisy is so strong that it should have opened up a wormhole.

    JD (e2e4ef)

  5. I didn’t intend to question President Obama’s motives

    Perhaps you should have backed up your claim by noting (and reminding the public) that the guy now in the White House sat in the pews of a church for a period of 20 years where the preacher proclaimed “goddamn America!”

    (By contrast, I bet if Jeremiah Wright had instead proclaimed something along the lines of “goddamn Iran!” or “goddamn the Soviet Union!” Obama would have walked out.)

    Mark (c160ec)

  6. If he didn’t intend to question obama’s motives or content of his heart than why did he question Obama’s motives and his love of country? Is there some kind of disconnect between Rudy’s brain and his mouth?

    And do I understand your position that the only exceptionalism to referenced about the U.S. concerns some things done and said by some men more than 200 years ago? What exactly is this “spirit” that is only still alive in some parts of the country? How about the rest of the people actually living here?

    What really annoyed me about Rudy’s op ed is the statement that Obama somehow showed less love of the country by admitting we tortured people. And Rudy doesn’t seem to be denying that’s what happened, only that is somehow wrong to say so. Has telling the truth about what this country does somehow become unAmerican?

    Northener (162df5)

  7. “Northerner” – That was just precious. Thank you for the laughs.

    JD (e2e4ef)

  8. he elaborated quite clearly, how the President’s actions, illustrate his priorities, and his tone deafness,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  9. I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.

    Martin Luther King, Jr.

    At least I’m in good company.

    ThOR (a52560)

  10. There has been no shortage of news coverage

    actually if you get your news from National Soros Radio you’ve yet to hear about Mayor Giuliani’s revelation about how Barack Obama does not in fact love America

    everyone else knows but not you

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  11. #5 and Obama tolerated Wright’s antisemitism, but would never have stood for him bashing Muslims.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  12. I’m disappointed in Rudy. If you’re going to say stuff like that, own it and be proud. The people who were faux-outraged by it are never going to forgive him, and now he’s disappointed all the people who agreed with him.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  13. I vote we make JD the Official PP Troll Greeter.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  14. Mr feet wrote:

    Mayor Rudy’s bluntness did NOT overshadow his message

    you can tell by how Obama’s kneepad media was crying like little girls

    his message was loud and clear

    Mr Giuliani’s initial message was spot on target, a completely correct assessment. I am disappointed that Mr Giuliani decided to try to soft-peddle the message he gave the first time. The left won’t forgive him anyway, and the right will lose respect.

    The Dana in agreement (f6a568)

  15. I like the way that Rudy walked it back — he really does want to focus on the TERRIBLE policies that Obama has imposed. WHY he has imposed them is just an ad hominem distraction. The thing to talk about is just how TERRIBLE they are. As he does here in an excellent rant:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0hUtumtQpA

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  16. I haven’t lost respect for Giuliani. He set the agenda for the debate for a week and, as a result, the focus has been on Obama. The media has done its best to make the focus the Republican response to Giuliani’s comments but at best that’s playing defense.

    As for the substance of Giuliani’s comments, Patterico’s post shows us why they matter. For every voter who sits in his home office and thinks rational political thoughts, there are other voters watching the Oscars who aren’t. Giuliani’s comments won’t resonate with all of them but it might make a few of them think twice.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  17. Anyone who loves this country would not do the things that obama does. So, it follows that Rudi was 100% correct. He shouldn’t apologize or try to soften the message.

    Jim (84e66d)

  18. The Fed will start jacking up interest rates as soon as a Republican is President, causing massive deficits as the debt service becomes one of the largest chunks of the budget.

    https://truthbeforedishonor.wordpress.com/2013/12/13/cumulonimbus-agi-revisited/

    John Hitchcock (20689b)

  19. 18. John Hitchcock (20689b) — 2/23/2015 @ 8:56 am

    The Fed will start jacking up interest rates as soon as a Republican is President, causing massive deficits as the debt service becomes one of the largest chunks of the budget.

    But the Fed raising interest rates is probably what the Republican would want.

    In fact, he might complain that they’re taking too long and going to slow about it.

    But it’s far too soon to tell.

    Sammy Finkelman (e806a6)

  20. The blind hog found an acorn. And some people said, “What a good little piggy”. And other people said, “Bad, bad piggy”. And the hog said, “I’m so sorry, I was really looking for a truffle. Snort, snort. Don’t cut off business with all my firms, and don’t say mean things about me”. It’s and old pattern with Rudy. He’s a playground bully who only sticks to things he can get away with. I’m not disappointed because it was better than anything I expected from him in the first place. And it really was something while it lasted.

    nk (dbc370)

  21. like that Belmont piece, I linked on the other thread, it is shibboleth to challenge the narrative,
    now for the future, Walker better find a way to come to grips with that,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  22. Jd,

    thanks, let’s try for some more amusement. Will anybody here actually defend Rudy’s claim that referencing torture was some sort of fatal gaffe?

    Rudy seems to think you can run a net through American history, pick out the bright shiny objects, and throw all the troublesome dark moments back into the water, as if they never existed. If America is the country that helped win WWI & II, fostered the Marshall Plan, advocated on behalf of free speech through its Constitution, fought a war to end domestic slavery, it is also a country that pushed enslaved people in the first place, started an unnecessary war in Iraq, tortured people, tolerated lynching and instituted coups in Iran and Guatemala. You can’t take just talk about the parts you like and pretend you love a country, you have to face it square and honestly.

    Rudy reminds me of the House UnAmerican Activities Committee, convinced it had the one true understanding of what it meant to be American. Sure America is exceptional, for welcoming immigrants, embracing diversity, championing liberty of thought. Rudy and his friends just discard all that and insist on a one True Scottish Exceptionalism.

    Love doesn’t lie. Rudy would apparently prefer a liar for president.

    Northener (162df5)

  23. Oh, Rudy, say it isn’t so. Wrong, wrong, wrong. The bluntness was the beauty, filling an aching longing for truth.

    rrpjr (b5da43)

  24. I knew it was too good to last.
    nk (dbc370) — 2/23/2015 @ 7:55 am

    Yup.

    rrpjr (b5da43)

  25. why does the President always seem to have America in the docket, he lashes her more than the albino in Da Vinci code,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  26. And there I thought America was exceptional for giving even its poor people the highest standard of living in the history of the world; crushing Fascism, Nazism, Communism, feudalism, and militarism and bringing freedom and democracy to some of the most backward places in the world; and sending men to the Moon. Foolish me.

    nk (dbc370)

  27. Boy, northerner, you really should put down the LSD sugar cubes.

    John Hitchcock (20689b)

  28. and please spare us the sob stories of Trumbo, and co,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  29. America even did something you care about, Northener — iPhones and Starbucks.

    nk (dbc370)

  30. Northener- Have another shot of hateraide. And then head south.

    mg (31009b)

  31. Rudy would apparently prefer a liar for president.
    Northener (162df5) — 2/23/2015 @ 9:11 am

    Well, objectively not, for in that case he’d be fine with the one we’ve got.

    rrpjr (b5da43)

  32. I agree with the commenter above who said “the bluntness was the beauty”. Rudy said what needed to be said and to be heard and to be considered by the public. It was the headline. Any subsequent “clarification” by Rudy or backpedaling by other coward Rs does not dilute the power or truth of the original statement.

    elissa (f66785)

  33. Northerner – What about the Crusades?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  34. Isnt that just precious?! Bless your heart, “northerner”

    JD (e2e4ef)

  35. it is also a country that pushed enslaved people in the first place, started an unnecessary war in Iraq, tortured people, tolerated lynching and instituted coups in Iran and Guatemala.

    Excellent summery of Obama’s opinion of the country he purports to lead. You should apply to the DNC for a job. That is, if you don’t already work there.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  36. it is also a country that pushed enslaved people in the first place, started an unnecessary war in Iraq, tortured people, tolerated lynching and instituted coups in Iran and Guatemala.

    Sounds terrible. You’re free to leave.

    rrpjr (b5da43)

  37. The invented litmus test strikes again.

    Bad facts getting you down? Just argue that anyone who acknowledges bad facts is a Commie! That way everyone will be scared to acknowledge bad facts, even if they know about them.

    This will produce Courage, like Rudy Giuliani has.

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  38. Invented litmus test? Really?! Like how the MFM is demanding that all Republicans denounce Giuliani, or calling people cowards and disqualified for office for saying Rudy speaks for Rudy?

    JD (e2e4ef)

  39. Last week, these durn kids broke all the windows in my house! It was a real bummer – I liked my house better when it had windows. But at the suggestion of my Republican friends, I abandoned my house and my family and moved to Mexico.

    Or, you know… decided to fix my broken windows.

    The “If You Don’t Like It, Leave” argument might be the stupidest piece of propaganda ever invented.

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  40. “Like how the MFM is demanding that all Republicans denounce Giuliani, or calling people cowards and disqualified for office for saying Rudy speaks for Rudy?”

    – JD

    Those are also invented litmus tests, and those are also stupid.

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  41. Just argue that anyone who acknowledges bad facts is a Commie! That way everyone will be scared to acknowledge bad facts, even if they know about them.
    Leviticus (f9a067) — 2/23/2015 @ 10:06 am

    Scared? Your anachronism is showing. Being a commie these days is a cool thing.

    rrpjr (b5da43)

  42. ==“If You Don’t Like It, Leave” argument might be the stupidest piece of propaganda ever invented.==
    You are young and apparently unaware of history so I am going to give you pass on this ridiculously stupid assertion.

    elissa (f66785)

  43. And what “bad facts”? What single fact about Obama’s past, or whatever remnant of his past that hasn’t been sealed from public view, did Giuliani get wrong?

    rrpjr (b5da43)

  44. “Bad facts getting you down? Just argue that anyone who acknowledges bad facts is a Commie!”

    Leviticus – “Facts”? You keep using that word………….

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  45. “If You Don’t Like It, Leave” argument might be the stupidest piece of propaganda ever invented.

    It’s not propaganda. I’m not arguing on behalf of the perfectness of America. But honestly, as the Left has now conclusively demonstrated that it reserves more bile and critique for America than any other country (aside perhaps from Israel) and more obloquy for patriotic Americans than even America’s violent enemies, I believe it’s perfectly reasonable to ask why they would choose to live here. I mean, there are other options. Is it because the love the “idea” of America but in actual practice find it wanting? But I never hear that from the Left. So what is it? What keeps them here?

    rrpjr (b5da43)

  46. “You are young and apparently unaware of history so I am going to give you pass on this ridiculously stupid assertion.”

    – elissa

    Maybe you could correct the folly of youth with an actual argument.

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  47. hey Leviticus!

    if your black hearted Presnet-snit hadn’t imported all those illegal alien kids here in violation of various Federal laws, they wouldn’t have been around to break your windows.

    redc1c4 (269d8e)

  48. I agree with you on the general principal, Leviticus. You don’t abandon your house, you fix it and clean it up. I disagree on whom you should allow to live there — before, during and after. Oikophobes* need not apply. They’re just a drag on the useful occupants.

    *That’s people who hate their home, literally. Also their country, as generally used.

    nk (dbc370)

  49. Which is not to say that in a nation of immigrants, oikophobia might not be the prevalent genetic trait. Space exploration faster, please.

    nk (dbc370)

  50. Yes, Leviticus. I will be happy to correct the folly of youth with respect to your assertion about “propaganda”. Check out the propaganda from the Great Leap Forward, The Cultural Revolution and Soviet Era cold War. This was the most recent golden age of propaganda. But we can certainly go back further into history if you wish.

    elissa (f66785)

  51. What type of a man stands around and watches criminals wreck his house? Or does not hunt them down and engage in
    conversation or something.

    mg (31009b)

  52. Or, you know… decided to fix my broken windows.

    The “If You Don’t Like It, Leave” argument might be the stupidest piece of propaganda ever invented.

    That counter to that, of course, is that no sooner had you finished fixing you windows than the same neighborhood kids broke them again. And again. And again.

    And pretty soon, all of your time and financial resources were spent trying to undo the damage caused by people who would not let you keep what you built for yourself.

    At what point does “throwing good money after bad” come into play?

    Chuck Bartowski (11fb31)

  53. SPQR had a great site to visit Leviticus-A1msurplus

    mg (31009b)

  54. I’m really interested in hearing a Leftist assert a positive reason for living in America, or how and why America has something other nations do not and why it is worth living here. I get the impression that saying something like this would deeply pain them.

    rrpjr (b5da43)

  55. “Yes, Leviticus. I will be happy to correct the folly of youth with respect to your assertion about “propaganda”. Check out the propaganda from the Great Leap Forward, The Cultural Revolution and Soviet Era cold War. This was the most recent golden age of propaganda. But we can certainly go back further into history if you wish.”

    – elissa

    You are right – it was hyperbolic to call the “If You Don’t Like It, Leave” argument “the stupidest piece of propaganda ever invented.” There has been plenty of stupid propaganda invented over the years. The “If You Don’t Like It, Leave” argument is one such stupid piece of propaganda. But you’re right, there have been stupider pieces of propaganda (e.g. “Agrarian Reform,” “Hope and Change”). I stand corrected.

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  56. “I’m really interested in hearing a Leftist assert a positive reason for living in America, or how and why America has something other nations do not and why it is worth living here. I get the impression that saying something like this would deeply pain them.”

    – rrpjr

    How about, “I love living in America because I can have whatever political opinions I want without some kind of government committee dragging me to hearings where they question my patriotism because of my political beliefs.” That is a seriously great reason to live in America, when it holds true.

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  57. Err, you guys do know that M855 is not really AP, right? It’s rated for maybe 1/10th to 1/8th inch of steel plate. What you want is the M995. Just saying — maybe you all just like the color green.

    nk (dbc370)

  58. Fair enough and delighted to hear it.

    Then I’m assuming you bristled with outrage at the weaponization of the IRS and at how Catherine Englebrecht and other Tea party members were put through living hell for their political beliefs by multiple government agencies?
    http://floppingaces.net/2014/04/13/the-ugly-story-behind-the-persecution-of-catherine-engelbrecht/

    And at how campus conservatives are denied due process and subjected to kangaroo courts of stigmatization and suspension for thought crimes?
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-progressive-ideas-behind-the-lack-of-free-speech-on-campus/2015/02/20/93086efe-b0e7-11e4-886b-c22184f27c35_story.html

    And how law-abiding gun owners are persecuted by lawless brownshirt satraps?
    http://www.inquisitr.com/1103484/dc-businessmans-home-raided-over-unregistered-ammo/

    rrpjr (b5da43)

  59. Re: Rudy’s walk back. Yet another data point emphasizing the difference between Rudy and Reagan.

    Wouldn’t it be refreshing to have a leader who is willing to tell the truth? Some one like Ted Cruz, for example.

    Where is it written that Democrats can lie with every breath, and Republicans must silently acquiesce, thus enabling this behavior? The LHMFM is what it is … bankrupt, tedious, and predictable. If a politician governs his/her life by seeking their approval, their career will be just as inconsequential as John McCain’s or Mitt Romney’s.

    bobathome (f50725)

  60. Here’s the thing about America’s flaws: our flaws are no different from those of any other nation. Our good points are better than any other nations, and you know that because they are imitated–for propaganda, by bad people (dictators invariably call themselves “President” and hold “elections”) and for real, by good people.

    Did we engage in slavery? Yes, along with every other nation in history, practically. Did we start unnecessary wars or install governments we liked better when we could get away with it? Name a Great Power that never did that. Did we invade Iraq without the blessing of the UN in 2003? No, we had that blessing, after wasting a great deal of time–but France never bothered to go to the UN when they invaded Cote d’Ivoire in 2002, and Russia certainly didn’t ask for the blessing of the UN when they intervened in North Ossetia or Abkhazia or whatever they’re calling it.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  61. “Then I’m assuming you bristled with outrage at the weaponization of the IRS and at how Catherine Englebrecht and other Tea party members were put through living hell for their political beliefs by multiple government agencies?”

    – rrprj

    I did, if you cared to actually look.

    As to your second question, I’m a dues-paying member of FIRE.

    The last question, I dunno.

    Leviticus (087a4a)

  62. I’m assuming, conversely, that you acknowledge the historical reality of HUAC and condemn its existence and actions as fundamentally un-American.

    Leviticus (087a4a)

  63. I’m assuming, conversely, that you acknowledge the historical reality of HUAC and condemn its existence and actions as fundamentally un-American.

    Why? What exactly did it do that was wrong? Do you claim that anyone it ever accused of communism was not one?

    Or are you referring to its early history, founded as it was by a confirmed Soviet spy to go after fascists (who, at the time, were opposed by the communists, before they became friends, and then enemies again)? Even then I’m not aware that it ever went after an innocent person.

    Milhouse (55e42a)

  64. @Leviticus:62.I’m assuming, conversely, that you acknowledge the historical reality of HUAC and condemn its existence and actions as fundamentally un-American.

    Moral panics are very, very American, and the Left freely indulges. The current hysteria about rape on campus being an excellent example.

    It sucks that some people lost jobs because of their political beliefs, I agree. The Left thinks it’s a pretty American thing to do, though.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  65. “Do you claim that anyone it ever accused of communism was not one?”

    – Milhouse

    “Was not one” according to whom? The Committee? Joe McCarthy? The accused? A jury of peers? You?

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  66. “Was not one” according to whom? The Committee? Joe McCarthy? The accused? A jury of peers? You?
    Leviticus (f9a067) — 2/23/2015 @ 11:59 am

    Try according to the available evidence.

    Gerald A (9d7d51)

  67. @Leviticus: HUAC was in existence from 1938 to 1975. McCarthy was never even on it–how could he be, as a Senator? (The “H” stands for “House”, of course.) It was founded under a Democratic administration and abolished under a Republican one.

    You don’t know anything about it except what you read in comic books. So save your outrageous outrage.

    Maybe if you read a little history you’d find that it’s a lot less straightforward than you think.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  68. #67

    Right. HUAC is famous mainly for investigating Communists in Hollywood. McCarthy was concerned with Communists in the government. A hearing is portrayed by the media as his undoing where he asked a woman who worked for the Army if she was a Communist. She denied it. The impression is created that he was flinging wild accusations. In fact, she was a member of the ACP.

    Gerald A (9d7d51)

  69. ==I’m assuming, conversely, that you acknowledge the historical reality of HUAC and condemn its existence and actions as fundamentally un-American.==

    Oh, Leviticus, once again, you seem to have your mind made up about “historical reality”, but here are two books I highly recommend to people who want to better understand the era and ones that I think you might find worth reading assuming you have not already done so–and if you’re open to looking at the whole HUAC era with fresh eyes:

    Witness by Whittaker Chambers
    This is one of the greatest and most fascinating works of political biography of the 20th century. Chambers spent many years in the Communist underground in Baltimore, supporting a cell of spies and subversives. Eventually he came to realize his truth and escaped the despair of the Communist enterprise. His testimony before the House Committee on Un-American Activities exposed the depth of the Communist penetration of American institutions, and led eventually to the perjury conviction of Alger Hiss, then a respected diplomat, once the founding Secretary General of the UN.

    One reviewer said, “Chambers was a haunted man. He was also a writer of extraordinary brilliance. His autobiography will move you as much as it will inform you. No man can speak competently about the Cold War and the terrible blackness at the heart of Communist who has not confronted this book.”

    Also, Whittaker Chambers by Sam Tanenhaus
    This well researched and very complete 1997 biography benefited from dozens of interviews and relied on materials from forty archives in the United States and abroad–including still-classified KGB dossiers–

    Chambers turned on the Communists and forcefully testified against Hiss. But he was also a private critic of many of the separate tactics of Senator Joseph McCarthy who was not involved with HUAC even though many people seem to conflate the two. Chambers once told William F. Buckley that McCarthy was “a slugger and a rabble-rouser” who “simply knows that somebody threw a tomato and the general direction from which it came.”

    elissa (f66785)

  70. So… no condemnations of HUAC from this sector, I take it? Anyone going to take the stance that an American should be able to be a Communist without government persecution? Or is that protection reserved for Tea Partiers?

    Here, I’ll start: An American should be able to be a Tea Partier without government persecution (including persecution from the IRS, a comment I’ve made before).

    Then you say (re: Communists)…

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  71. nobody cares if Obama’s an America-hating communist it just bothers people that he’s lying about it

    you gotta be honest with people it’s part of what being a good president is all about

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  72. By the way, I am speaking as someone who has had a commenter from this blog contact a place of employment to try to get me in trouble for my political beliefs.

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  73. An American should not be permitted to be part of a criminal conspiracy, whether or not it is coordinated by a foreign power or whether or not it includes espionage of national security secrets on behalf of said foreign power, no matter what he calls himself. An American should be entitled to advocate for the violent overthrow of the government as a matter of abstract belief as long as he does not commit an overt act to further such a purpose.

    nk (dbc370)

  74. Vietnam war draft dodging chicken hawks like rudy guiliani shouldn’t question anyones patriotism! His father dodged the draft in world war 2 as convicted felon mob member!

    truther (233a0b)

  75. Hay Seuss, Leviticus. Who was the f***er?

    nk (dbc370)

  76. HUAC??? I’m a late-comer… how did this thread go down that rabbit trail?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  77. Nobody on this site would be stupid enough to think there’s actually an organization (other than political or religious) where employees can get in trouble for being a liberal.

    Gerald A (9d7d51)

  78. #77

    I should say “no CONSERVATIVES on this site” etc.

    Gerald A (9d7d51)

  79. #77

    Nor do I think any conservative, as I define it, would approve of such a thing.

    Gerald A (9d7d51)

  80. Giuliani has nothing to apologize for. The Democrats like to dish it out, but they sure can’t take it. Punch ’em back twice as hard (the “’em” includes the lapdog media. Just say “No!” to comity.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  81. @Leviticus: How many tens of millions were killed by Tea Partiers? What percentage of Tea Partiers spy for foreign powers? What percentage of Tea Partiers lie about being one? How many nuclear missiles were built by governments adhering to Tea Party principles?

    One of these things is not like the other. Locking up American Nazis and Nazi fellow travelers during World War II was just common sense. We were never openly at war with the Soviet Union, so we didn’t go that far with Communists. Now that the Cold War is over Communists are mostly left alone.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  82. Coronello, you are an aficianado of the X1/9. Now, I was not blessed with that affliction but I did suffer the love of the Nissan 1.8 turbo engine.

    http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=11847

    …Its 1.8 litre engine is a turbocharged, single overhead camshaft, 4 cylinder that develops 135 bhp (137 PS/101 kW) of power at 6000 rpm, and maximum torque of 191 N·m (141 lb·ft/19.5 kgm) at 4000 rpm…

    Isn’t there something about a striving American V8 that just sings to your very soul?

    Steve57 (e16ed8)

  83. I don’t know for sure, nk. When I was an undergraduate (in 2008) I spent a semester in DC interning for a very conservative NM congressman named Steve Pearce. I was randomly assigned to his office as part of the program, and didn’t share his political views, and everyone in the program knew that and thought it didn’t matter and things were fine. They said, “that’s fine, just do your job and you can have whatever political views you want.”

    So, one of my jobs as an intern was screening/filing/organizing incoming mail, and one morning came across an email that said (paraphrasing) “I believe you have an intern in your office who comments as Leviticus on a political blog called Patterico’s Pontifications. I think Mr. Pearce would be very interested to know about this guy’s political beliefs if he’s going to allow him to work in the congressional office.”

    I was bothered by the email, but it was no secret at the office that I was relatively liberal, so I took it Pearce’s chief of staff, who basically said “sheesh, that’s a creepy email. We don’t care that you are a liberal. Just do good work and that’s fine.” Which taught me at least two valuable lessons (first, that political beliefs shouldn’t affect one’s ability to work, and second that there was no correlation between political beliefs and common sense).

    I passed the story along to Patterico at the time. He empathized, obviously, given the attempts of liberal analogues to get him in trouble for his political beliefs. I don’t know if he ever figured out who it was, which is fine.

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  84. “Nor do I think any conservative, as I define it, would approve of such a thing.”

    – Gerald A

    Right. Like no America, as we would like to definite it, would approve of something ugly like the racial internment of American citizens. It’s easy to maintain the purity of our preferences when we write their impurities out by definition.

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  85. Which (unintentionally) brings me full circle to my original point at #37.

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  86. It’s interesting, to me at least, that you wrote that comment. It covers a subject that I have thought a great deal about. I don’t get to do what I want.

    Steve57 (e16ed8)

  87. Yes, Steve, a V8 is cool, but I do have an affinity for 4-cylinder, high-revving, OHC, oversquare designs. I had a Nissan 350Z (V6) that was a real monster, but a true speed-ticket bait car if ever there was one.

    A car that I would love to own now would be a ’67 327 4-speed Chevy Nova SS.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  88. Right. Like no America, as we would like to definite it, would approve of something ugly like the racial internment of American citizens. It’s easy to maintain the purity of our preferences when we write their impurities out by definition.

    Only an America under a Democrat administration would do something like that.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  89. Then I’m the lucky one. Just about any Mustang will do me. I won’t even kick it out of bed it it has an automatic.

    Steve57 (e16ed8)

  90. I know what you mean about the early Nova. Back in the day I could pick up a Nova for pocket change. Now, I’d go broke.

    Steve57 (e16ed8)

  91. what you wrote about the HiPo 289 is true, my late Bro-in-Law had a ’65 Mustang GT (automatic) that was a little faster than my 4 speed ’64 GTO.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  92. I meant it allegorically, coronellol

    Steve57 (e16ed8)

  93. I fat fingered that one.

    Steve57 (e16ed8)

  94. Leviticus – whoever did that was a d-bag or d-baguette.

    Not exactly sure how the HUAC has anything to do with our modern existence, unless you are trying to draw a parallel between how modern leftists treat Tea Partiers in a manner similar to how people used to treat actual communists.

    JD (e2e4ef)

  95. The small block Ford is something, isn’t it?

    Steve57 (e16ed8)

  96. “Oikophobes”???

    I love Greek yogurt!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  97. The question is, what would Obama do differently if he “hated” America?

    http://youtu.be/K8E_zMLCRNg

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  98. Wow, Leviticus, that is creepy.

    I forget which Ann Coulter book it was, but her robust defense of Joe McCarthy and the HUAC was the beginning of the end of my (r) conservatism.

    carlitos (e7137b)

  99. The contemporary treatment of the Tea Party and conservatism generally by the Left, in its multifarious and powerful representations across the culture (united however in spirit and objective), pales anything from the 50s or HUAC to the point which makes analogies ridiculous. We are experiencing today an institutionalized ongoing targeting of political dissent unheard of in modern American society. The Presidents own chief of staff in his first six months in office was sending out speech-chilling letters to republican donors actually warning of investigations. The IRS, now nothing other than a blunt instrument of democrat power (remember the quaint old days when Richard Nixon simply inquired about auditing a political opponent and was rebuked not only at agency level but by his own Treasury Secretary?) has shared confidential taxpayer information with leftist hit groups. The EPA openly discusses “crucifying” politically disfavored interests, and the DOJ has an “operation chokepoint” to starve politically disfavored industries.

    rrpjr (b5da43)

  100. Steve57, one of my pet peeves is hot rodders who SB Chevies in an old Ford when there are som many more appropriate choices.

    Gazzer (db2fec)

  101. A) Obama loves America like a fiancée who can’t wait to get married so he/she can begin to change his/her spouse into the person he/she wants him/her to be.

    B) Which is different from loving a person as they are and wanting to help them make the good parts better and patiently work on the bad ones.

    Giuliani said that Obama doesn’t B America, and that is easily demonstrable from things he (Obama) has said over the years. He A’s America.
    What Michelle said about America would never come out of the mouth of a spouse or parent who loved a spouse/child. “Oh, Jimmy, I’m finally proud of you since you got a prestigious job at 45.”

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  102. Even a run-of-the mill mid-90’s Mustang with the 5.0 and a 4 speed was so fun.

    I thought that “multifarious” was a fake word, like mendoucheous. You learn something new every day.

    carlitos (c24ed5)

  103. Like no America, as we would like to definite it, would approve of something ugly like the racial internment of American citizens.

    Leviticus, you are providing a veritable compost pile today. The panic on the west coast after Pearl Harbor was somewhat similar to the red scares of Wilson’s administration,

    In both cases, the actions took place in Democrat administrations and, in California, under Earl Warren. There as an element of racism as Japanese were discriminated against and under some suspicion. Read The Niihau Incident for some insight into why there was fright. The Japanese Americans were not evacuated to the mainland for the same reason that there was no chance that the slaves would ever be sent back to Africa after the Civil War. There was no shipping.

    Once the war was seen to be going well, the internment camps were closed. Also, to rebut another myth. about 12,000 Germans were interned

    To show how silly this could get, the British sent thousands of German refugees, most of them Jews fleeing the Nazis, to Canada.

    Later in the war, thousands of German POWs were sent here and many “collaborated” with women near the camps. There were not many Japanese POWs because of their refusal to surrender. My father-in0law, at pone point late in the war, was commandant of a POW camp for Japanese in the Philippines. At the end of the war, the medical officers scratched their names on a canteen for him. They were the only officers in the camp.

    It was not a myth that many Japanese officers were American educated and spoke perfect English.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  104. I forget which Ann Coulter book it was, but her robust defense of Joe McCarthy and the HUAC was the beginning of the end of my (r) conservatism.

    carlitos… I’m curious: do you describe yourself as a “liberal” or “progressive”? I ask only because, if so, I wonder just what it would take to sour you on the Left… if nothing leading up to this point has.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  105. So… do you not agree that it was wrong for Americans to acquiesce to the racial internment of fellow Americans by the US government? And if you agree with me that it was wrong, what’s your grievance?

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  106. carlitos… I’m curious: do you describe yourself as a “liberal” or “progressive”? I ask only because, if so, I wonder just what it would take to sour you on the Left… if nothing leading up to this point has.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 2/23/2015 @ 2:50 pm

    I think that you’re misreading me. I’m not of the left, in any way, shape or form. I’m a small “l” libertarian if anything. As Harry Browne or PJ O’Rourke or somebody once said – I want the government out of my wallet and out of my bedroom. Maybe you could link to one of those online political quizzes, and we could compare scores? 🙂

    carlitos (c24ed5)

  107. the internee people all got a big fat check (bfc) at some point

    so that slate’s clean as it gonna get

    feed me seymour said the little plant

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  108. do you not agree that it was wrong for Americans to acquiesce to the racial internment of fellow Americans by the US government?

    I was trying to explain how it happened in the temper of that time. You seem willingly ignorant of history.

    Was it wrong of Marines on Guadalcanal to shoot Japanese wounded after they saw a number of Marines killed by wounded Japanese who concealed weapons? You do still seem like a kid, Levi.

    How do you feel about aerial bombing in WWII ? The atomic bomb ? Lefty knee jerks all.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  109. 106.== do you not agree that it was wrong for Americans to acquiesce to the racial internment of fellow Americans by the US government? ==

    I am sure you are aware that the U.S. government in 1988 formally and officially apologized for the WWII Japanese Internment/Relocation camps and paid each survivor a lump sum. Do you not agree that dinging average Americans of the time for “acquiescing” to FDR’s internment of Japanese Americans in the middle of a worldwide war, and when nearly every family or neighborhood had lost men and boys, and when the whole country was on high alert, and was struggling with shortages and the use of ration stamps, is unreasonable? Really, Leviticus. What, realistically, would you have expected them to do about it ?

    elissa (f66785)

  110. elissa, I am often stupid, and today is no exception.

    If the country in WWII was in such tough financial straits, couldn’t they have saved money by not interning Japanese people? That would have been cheaper, yes?

    carlitos (c24ed5)

  111. PS – If Col. Haiku finds a political quiz, are you in?

    carlitos (c24ed5)

  112. 101. Steve57, one of my pet peeves is hot rodders who SB Chevies in an old Ford when there are som many more appropriate choices.
    Gazzer (db2fec) — 2/23/2015 @ 2:05 pm

    I am so totally over that.

    And I speak as one who isn’t totally hard over in favor of the small block Ford?

    Have I, or have I not, spoken well of the big block Dodge? I.E. the ’68 Charger at 135mph? Hmm? Hmm?

    I’m waiting, people.

    F

    Steve57 (e16ed8)

  113. By “totally over that” I meant it you’re going to build a ’32 Ford put a flat head in it.

    Steve57 (e16ed8)

  114. The Chevy has its place but that’s just cheating.

    Steve57 (e16ed8)

  115. MOPAR FTW

    carlitos (c24ed5)

  116. 111. elissa, I am often stupid, and today is no exception.

    If the country in WWII was in such tough financial straits, couldn’t they have saved money by not interning Japanese people? That would have been cheaper, yes?
    carlitos (c24ed5) — 2/23/2015 @ 3:50 pm

    How do you feel about Britain, which just kicked affiliates of the axis powers out?

    Churchill apologized to some of them at the time. He said, look, we don’t have the time to sort through you. Clearly, some of you aren’t a danger to us. But we can’t know that, now.

    Steve57 (e16ed8)

  117. “You seem willingly ignorant of history.”

    – Mike K

    You seem tellingly unwilling to answer a simple question.

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  118. Carlitos, unless I am mistaken Leviticus was shocked or at least wondering why average decent Americans “acquiesced” to their government setting up Japanese internment camps. I have tried to address some practical reasons they might have acquiesced in the midst of a war. In #111 I believe you are asking whether the government couldn’t have saved a lot of money by not setting up the camps– which seems to get into a completely different set of actors, decisions and strategies than I was responding to L about.

    elissa (f66785)

  119. Steve57, it was a yes or no question. No need to change the subject.

    carlitos (c24ed5)

  120. elissa – I cross-posted with you there. Thanks for the clarification.

    Also, Mr. Steve57, I kind of like what Churchill did, now that I think about it. But where could we have sent the Japanese, who were like 1/3 of Hawaii’s population at the time? Japan was taking island after island in the South Pacific.

    carlitos (c24ed5)

  121. My only problem with MOPAR, carlitos, is that they’re expensive to build. I can build a Ford or a Chebbie for half the money. I got a set of World S/R Torquers in the garage for next to nothing. Maybe they’re no good in your book. Define no good. I can get 400hp out of them. That’s plenty good, in my book.

    Steve57 (e16ed8)

  122. What I was saying is that it wasn’t a yes or no question.

    That maybe they didn’t get everything right.

    Steve57 (e16ed8)

  123. If you’re going to race farm equipment, there’s a price to pay.

    http://schneidercams.com/internationalharvester.aspx

    http://scoutpluss.squarespace.com/headers/

    Steve57 (e16ed8)

  124. 400hp is indeed good. I don’t know, it’s probably just an emotional soft spot for that Aspen R/T that a young carlito had painted with graffiti back in the day.

    carlitos (c24ed5)

  125. I have the cam, and the headers, and the 392 I pulled out of the bus, sitting in the garage. Just waiting.

    Steve57 (e16ed8)

  126. carlitos, we might just be friends yet.

    Steve57 (e16ed8)

  127. Just in case anybody doubts me I have a set of AFR cylinder heads and Weiand blower. Which I’m going to sell. So the line forms here.

    Steve57 (e16ed8)

  128. Like I hate the small block Chevy.

    Steve57 (e16ed8)

  129. http://t.co/R0BtBlKuaD

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  130. FDR had a thing about Japanese immigration going back to the 20s, so it was in keeping with his nature, he was also keen on keeping the Dixie Democrats on board, specially after ’38

    narciso (ee1f88)

  131. interesting Hoover was opposed to EO 1066,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  132. Here’s a good account of how the democrat-media complex has metastasized into a daily HUAC committee on steroids within our culture.
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/02/23/giuliani-walker-and-the-medias-pro-obama-mccarthyism/

    rrpjr (b5da43)

  133. Colonel, if you like insanely engined Fiats, check this out
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2yeMGGijCo

    Gazzer (db2fec)

  134. The “If You Don’t Like It, Leave” argument might be the stupidest piece of propaganda ever invented.

    I agree, Leviticus. The concept should instead be that liberals need to move to parts of America where over 90-plus percent of their neighbors will pretty much share their ideology and vote the same way they do. That is, liberals should move to the middle of the city of Detroit or other wonderful urban paradises.

    BTW, if there are sections of the US where over 90-plus percent of the people vote for conservatives/Republicans and, at the same time, are part of a dysfunctional quagmire (full of crime, poverty, corruption, deviancy) — and it has been that way for decades — let me know. The same retort will apply to rightwingers too.

    Oh, and folks like you or Barack and Michelle Obama should walk the walk and not just talk the talk by sending their precious children to schools where most of the student body is made up of the “undocumented” or Obama’s son if he had a son.

    Thank you.

    Mark (c160ec)

  135. yep, I’ve seen that one, Gazzer. How about this funny one?

    http://youtu.be/bx4l1hbb9HU

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  136. FDR had a thing about Japanese immigration going back to the 20s, so it was in keeping with his nature, he was also keen on keeping the Dixie Democrats on board, specially after ’38

    The left and/or the sycophants of the Democrat Party have never mentioned that FDR was a surprisingly bigoted person towards Jews, supporting quotas to keep their numbers down in government and schools. The most shocking and sickening thing of all was he deemed Jews as deserving a good share of the blame for the rise of Hitler and Nazism.

    Oh, but that was the distant past, some people (certainly liberals) will proclaim. Things change, times change, sentiments change, they’ll shout and holler.

    Well, here it is 2015 and a variety of modern-day folks of the left are again showing their true streak by excoriating Jews vis-a-vie the Palestinians and Iran.

    Hardly surprising, however, since liberals do have such big hearts.

    Mark (c160ec)

  137. Colonel that is nuts. There’s a Lambo engined 500 on there too. It is very easy to get sucked in and lose an hour or two.

    Gazzer (db2fec)

  138. Another tack:

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/02/sen-ted-cruz-barack-obama-is-an-apologist-for-radical-islam-video/

    Actually collaborator is more accurate than apologist.

    DNF (c7ec2e)

  139. Coolidge was President in 1925 when the anti-Chinese Acts were extended to all East Asians. And the Acts dated back to the Reconstruction era when the dominant political party was …? And they were repealed, in toto, in 1943 when who was President? The Japanese internments were a wartime measure. With 20-20 Progressivism, we can beat up on the generation who fought that war. But guess what? They f***ing won it on two f***ing oceans and three f***ing continents. Do better with your gay parades and free contraceptives.

    nk (dbc370)

  140. floor wax, desert topping, much the same thing.

    narciso (ee1f88)

  141. The Japanese internments were a wartime measure. With 20-20 Progressivism, we can beat up on the generation who fought that war. But guess what? They f***ing won it on two f***ing oceans and three f***ing continents. Do better with your gay parades and free contraceptives.

    But how do you feel?

    Steve57 (e16ed8)

  142. Northener, I think that you (and perhaps Obama) just have a different understanding of “love” than Giuliani and his fans.

    sing (4a74a5)

  143. I think TFG does love his country, it’s just that we’re not it!

    Gazzer (db2fec)

  144. Coolidge was President in 1925 when the anti-Chinese Acts were extended to all East Asians. And the Acts dated back to the Reconstruction era when the dominant political party was …? And they were repealed, in toto, in 1943 when who was President?

    And during all this time, from Reconstruction to FDR, Democrats were still lynching blacks in the South. Even JFK voted to kill an anti-lynching law.

    Which just goes to show you that trawling history for mud to throw is a target-rich environment.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  145. FTFY: an ammunition endowed environment.

    bobathome (f208b6)

  146. As for the substance of Giuliani’s comments, Patterico’s post shows us why they matter. For every voter who sits in his home office and thinks rational political thoughts, there are other voters watching the Oscars who aren’t. Giuliani’s comments won’t resonate with all of them but it might make a few of them think twice.

    Sure, but I bet they will offend many more. I don’t think that’s a reason for Giuliani not to say what he thinks, mind you. But if our argument is going to be: let’s say things that will persuade voters . . . well, then I’m not sure “Obama doesn’t love America” is a winning message. Because voters seem (to me often absurdly) middle of the road. It seems to me that if they’re low-information types, they just get irritated when politicians say things like this.

    But, as I always say, I’m not really an expert on political messaging. It’s one of many reasons I will never run for office.

    And to me, this isn’t necessarily about rationality vs. emotions but on focusing on the right thing. Is Obama’s love for this country, or lack thereof, really our biggest problem — or is it something else? If it’s something else, shouldn’t we be finding emotionally effective ways to communicate that message rather than worrying about this one?

    Patterico (9c670f)

  147. 149. maybe it should go in the Gleen thread:

    http://pamelageller.com/2015/02/terror-tv-al-jazeera-leaks-spy-cables-docs-show-cia-tried-to-connect-with-hamas-despite-us-ban.html/
    narciso (ee1f88) — 2/23/2015 @ 7:50 pm

    Pamela Geller sometimes speaks the truth. It’s up to us to prove it.

    Steve57 (e16ed8)

  148. My home office is our breakfast table, by the way. We do have a separate room but I hate retreating into it.

    Patterico (7028bb)

  149. I have achieved a hewing axe. All the way from Hungary. So if any of you need square beams hewn out of round logs, and are willing to be guinea pigs, I’m your guy.

    Steve57 (e16ed8)

  150. Also I need the logs.

    Steve57 (e16ed8)

  151. 70 years ago today, six members of the armed services raised the American flag over the Japanese island of Iwo Jima

    Hubba hubba.

    Steve57 (e16ed8)

  152. I had nothing to do with it.

    Steve57 (e16ed8)

  153. I wish team r would answer the media in the manner R.R. did. Republicans never seem to be able to defuse the democrats narrative. Maybe because they are never on the same page.

    mg (31009b)


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