Patterico's Pontifications

2/19/2015

Rudy Giuliani: Obama Doesn’t Love the United States

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:46 am



Rudy Giuliani says Obama doesn’t love this country:

Rudy Giuliani went straight for the jugular Wednesday night during a private group dinner here featuring Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker by openly questioning whether President Barack Obama “loves America.”

The former New York mayor, speaking in front of the 2016 Republican presidential contender and about 60 right-leaning business executives and conservative media types, directly challenged Obama’s patriotism, discussing what he called weak foreign policy decisions and questionable public remarks when confronting terrorists.

“I do not believe, and I know this is a horrible thing to say, but I do not believe that the president loves America,” Giuliani said during the dinner at the 21 Club, a former Prohibition-era speakeasy in midtown Manhattan. “He doesn’t love you. And he doesn’t love me. He wasn’t brought up the way you were brought up and I was brought up through love of this country.”

This story reminds me that I need to bore all of you with a thorough review and summary of Thomas Sowell’s “A Conflict of Visions.” I think it was a mistake to try to discuss the book in a piecemeal fashion — and even summarizing it all in one place may end up being a mistake — but it’s stories like this that remind me why the book was so revelatory to me.

I am, once again, making the mistake of taking a passage from the book and discussing it piecemeal, but this passage from Sowell’s book bears directly on Giuliani’s quote, and spoke to me:

Sincerity holds no such place of honor in the constrained vision. Those with this vision often readily concede sincerity to their adversaries, treating it as an individual virtue of minor social benefit — and sometimes as a major aggravating factor, when people persist in socially counterproductive ideals.

Sowell goes on to say that those with the constrained vision are more concerned with fidelity to one’s role in life, and in carrying out that role as part of a system.

This passage doesn’t completely describe my feelings about “sincerity” on a personal level, but it describes it pretty well when it comes to politicians.

On a personal level, like most people, I prefer to deal with people who are sincere. Holden Caulfield’s denunciation of “phonies” struck a chord with me as a teenager, and I am certainly not alone in that respect. Few things irritate me more than glad-handing insincere people.

But I think Sowell’s description here is directed more at solving society’s problems. And it helps me understand better why I get bored and turned off by discussions about how such and such Democrat person is insincere, and hates America, and is trying to destroy our way of life. And if I don’t sign on to such sentiments, then I am Less Conservative than the next guy, and don’t really care as much about the country as the next guy. Because the next guy has always said that such and such Democrat politician is the devil incarnate, so you can’t question his bona fides, no sir!

I generally come away from such discussions irritated. I have no doubt that the world is crammed full of sincere Marxists who believe that their vision is best for the world. Present me a choice between one of those sincere Marxists, on one hand, and an insincere Republican who I believe will mostly carry out policies that favor the free market, on the other — and I will choose the insincere Republican every time.

Every time.

It’s far more important to me that Barack Obama continues the policies of corporate welfare; that he backs the Fed’s creation of a new asset bubble; that he continues government takeover of our lives . . . all of this matters to me far more than a discussion of whether he loves our country.

Over Barack Obama’s time in office I have grown to personally dislike the man on a fundamental level. I always knew his policies were disastrous, but I have come to see him as incredibly narcissistic, self-absorbed, and yes, insincere. You’re not going to find me sticking up for the guy or talking about how wonderful he is. You may or may not have noticed, but I don’t even call him “President Obama” any more, because I have totally lost respect for him.

But to me, all of that is secondary. The main problem is that his policies are terrible. I think discussions about whether he loves this country are wonderful red meat, but ultimately pointless.

Your mileage may vary; for many of you, I know it does. I’m not criticizing your point of view so much as trying to explain my own.

But I think Sowell’s constrained/unconstrained dichotomy, if understood properly, can help people from the unconstrained vision understand why saying “I’m not saying so-and-so is a bad guy” is not an endorsement of so-and-so. For those from the constrained vision, it’s the equivalent of “bless his heart” — it means the dagger is coming, and that dagger is: but his policies are a disaster, because he is trying to plan our economy like a Communist apparatchik rather than let the free market perform its magic.

For someone from the constrained vision, that argument, and not “he doesn’t love his country,” is the ultimate criticism.

166 Responses to “Rudy Giuliani: Obama Doesn’t Love the United States”

  1. I really need to do that comprehensive post. Without an overview of the entirety of Sowell’s argument, I have a feeling the discussion may go off the rails. If anyone here has read the book, please participate heavily in this thread to help keep things on track.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  2. I think I took too many words in this post to say the following:

    Who gives a crap whether Obama loves this country or hates it? He’s screwing it up either way.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  3. I think discussions about whether he loves this country are wonderful red meat, but ultimately pointless.

    Perhaps even more so since such an assessment is coming from Giuliani (who, after all, is rather ideologically squishy), “doesn’t like America” has a vagueness about it that reminds me of leftist women who refuse to come out and flatly proclaim that the reason they don’t like Female X, Y or Z is because she’s too conservative, or left-leaning people who say they don’t care for African-American Person A, B or C because he or she is too rightwing.

    Mark (c160ec)

  4. But Aristotelian ethos? I agree with the ad hominum caution — the proponent’s relative personal strengths or weaknesses are not necessarily a reflection on the merits of his ideas. But when all your proponent offers is Hope and Change, with no concrete, objective measurement of the merits of his proposals, isn’t his character really all you have to judge him on?

    nk (dbc370)

  5. Typed 4 before I saw your 2.

    I disagree, anyway. I have a peasant’s snobbishness. I will follow, and take orders from, my betters. Not other hog-sloppers like me. So the character of my leader matters.

    nk (dbc370)

  6. “Who gives a crap whether Obama loves this country or hates it? what Rudy Giuliani thinks about anything?”

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  7. See, Patterico, Leviticus disagrees with you too. Ethos matters.

    nk (dbc370)

  8. Greetings:

    And speaking of glad-handers…

    Vice President Biden (nom de Mafia, “Joey Plugs”) reminds me of a loudmouth guy that used to come into my father’s favorite bar, “Archer’s” back in the Bronx of the ’50s. Once, when I was about seven, my father took me there on a Saturday afternoon to watch the then New York Giants baseball game on TV. I was sitting at the bar with my father, having my Coke with two cherries, when the loudmouth guy thought he saw an opportunity to insert himself into our afternoon. Over he comes, in his gladhanding way, and says way too loudly, “Well, Ted, are you going to introduce me to your boy-o?”


    Now, my father didn’t suffer, and had no intention of ever suffering, fools gladly. Taking a long pull on his Lucky Strike cigarette, and exhaling slowly, he answered, in that New York way, with a question, “What are you doing at this end of the bar?”

    11B40 (844d04)

  9. This country is too big, geographically and politically and philosophically and spiritually, to be understood by one mind or led by one leader. Anyone who considers Obama to be his or her leader, raise your hand; anyone willing to name someone they consider to be their (not “an”) actual leader, please chime in.

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  10. Mr. Giuliani is correct as far as he goes, but his understated take is far too tepid to push America towards the conversation it really needs to have about the toxic p.o.s. what has taken up residence in her white house.

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  11. Congratulations, Leviticus, you just made the argument for federalism that conservatives have been making since Woodrow Wilson.

    And against the progressive drive toward centralization the left has been pursuing since FDR. Which Obama has put into warp drive.

    Steve57 (e16ed8)

  12. but his policies are a disaster, because he is trying to plan our economy like a Communist apparatchik rather than let the free market perform its magic.

    Yes Patterico, that is the gist of the problem. However, he still doesn’t love his country and nothing will change that. Once one understands he has no love for America everything he does and every policy he promotes makes perfect sense. I would go one step more; not only does he not love America, he holds America in contempt and with great distain for our history and our people. He is The Anti American President. So it seems the efforts of the American left for the last hundred years worked.

    Hoagie (58a3ec)

  13. I agree with Leviticus. Driving Route 66 from Santa Monica to Chicago really brought out the differences for me. And Giuliani is kind of a tool.

    carlitos (c24ed5)

  14. Anyone who considers Obama to be his or her leader, raise your hand;

    You need to go hunting where the ducks are like, say, DailyKos? Bet you’ll get a lot of hands there.

    anyone willing to name someone they consider to be their (not “an”) actual leader, please chime in.

    Egalitarianism has corrupted me, too. After my father died, I am leaderless and rudderless, like the Ancient Mariner or the Flying Dutchman, because I don’t consider anyone to be better than me anymore.

    nk (dbc370)

  15. 10. Mr. Giuliani is correct as far as he goes, but his understated take is far too tepid to push America towards the conversation it really needs to have about the toxic p.o.s. what has taken up residence in her white house.

    happyfeet (a037ad) — 2/19/2015 @ 8:11 am

    The America Barack Obama loves is the one where Michelle gets to tell some kid in Boise exactly what he’s going to eat for lunch at school, and a 50 year old nun in Tucson that she’s going to have to pay for contraceptives and like it.

    Steve57 (e16ed8)

  16. I agree that Barack Obama does not love this country. He does not relate to it on a visceral level. He does not know how to talk about it or it’s history, and he doesn’t get the pride–the ideas and values and the simple common things that have always tied this country together even through the darkest of times. He only sees, and exploits, the differences and the faults and what it can do for him. I think this matters because a leader should love his country. I’m glad Rudy said what he did. He does get it. If more Americans came to accept that their president does not love the idea of America then they might be less likely to automatically accept his policies. Especially his disastrous policies which affect and weaken America’s place in the world.

    elissa (9b6830)

  17. Anyone who considers Obama to be his or her leader, raise your hand

    The entire main stream media just fell off their collective stools in the rush to raise their hands, both hands.

    Hoagie (58a3ec)

  18. It doesn’t matter to me whether he loves the country or not. It does matter to me that he doesn’t seem to “get” the country. Bill Clinton didn’t really “get” the country. At no time during the Elian Gonzalez saga did Clinton say anything about this country being better than Cuba. Reagan “got” the country. He understood the things that made the country possible and prosperous. He understood inspiring people to achieve. Recent Democrat presidents treat the country like it’s a rental car. As long as they can hand the keys back in before the wheels and bumpers fall off, they figure they’re off the hook.

    Joe Miller (64cdc0)

  19. “Egalitarianism has corrupted me, too. After my father died, I am leaderless and rudderless, like the Ancient Mariner or the Flying Dutchman, because I don’t consider anyone to be better than me anymore.”

    – nk

    That’s very interesting. The only person I would have named would have been my father, as well, and for the same reason.

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  20. Well, Joe Miller, it matters to whether or not our President loves our country. Just as it matters if my wife loves me. A President, or a wife, without love for what they stand for is a worthless piece of garbage. Without love they have no desire or impetus to improve themselves or in the President’s case the Nation. BTW, the opposite of love isn’t hate, it’s apathy. You know, like playing golf all the time.

    Hoagie (58a3ec)

  21. I think your analysis helps explain the conflicting polls about Obama and his policies. We know the majority of Americans lean conservative and that they disapprove, sometimes overwhelmingly, of Obama’s policies. But we also know Obama’s approval ratings are at 50%. This tells me Americans have separated their feelings toward him from their low opinions of his policies.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  22. Apathy. Like sending your wife and kids on a 2.5 million dollar week end at our expense.

    Hoagie (58a3ec)

  23. If I actually believed Obamas approval rating was 50% I too would hate my fellow Americans. However, I believe that number was brought to us by the same people who said the Chevy Volt would be a best seller, AGW causes snow and “if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor”. IOW, bu77shit.

    Hoagie (58a3ec)

  24. There is this though, Leviticus, which supports Patterico’s point of view. We may follow a leader, even though we might not consider him personally our superior, because we believe in the cause he leads. Like Bowie and Crockett obeyed Travis (and likely Houston and Austin too).

    nk (dbc370)

  25. 23.If I actually believed Obamas approval rating was 50% I too would hate my fellow Americans. However, I believe that number was brought to us by the same people who said the Chevy Volt would be a best seller, AGW causes snow and “if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor”. IOW, bu****t.

    How’s that, better?

    Hoagie (58a3ec)

  26. I still do call him President Obama, or the President, not out of respect for the man — something I have never had — but out of respect for the office he tarnishes.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  27. In theory, I agree with your premise that what matters is competency and policies, but we can never know the truth about national leaders unless we happen to know them or know of them. That’s why it matters whether our leaders are sincere or whether Obama loves his country. It matters because they are clues to motivations and whether leaders have integrity, sincerity, and honesty. Just look at Wallace Hall and Bill Powers and you can see why motivations, integrity, honesty, and sincerity matters.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  28. BTW, what ever happened to the Chevy Volt? We don’t hear too much about the great savior of GM any more. Wonder why? Another one of Obummers hope’s and changes gone down the crapper.

    Hoagie (58a3ec)

  29. I don’t view political leave as father figures, although I might have when I was younger. But I do believe some political leaders are sincere and good at what they do and I respect that, just as I can respect a very good surgeon or engineer or plumber.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  30. Giuliani understates the case. Obama doesn’t just fail to love America, the way I fail to love Spain, but he hates it like it was Nazi Germany or the USSR. He sees himself as America’s last chance to come out of the darkness of capitalism into the bright new day of social democracy. To do that he has to break down every institution and rebuild it. Failing that, he’ll just break it down.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  31. The reason why its important to point out that Barack Obama does not love this country is that, as a transnational progressive, Barack Obama believes that patriotism (love of country) is the root of all evil.

    https://www.commentarymagazine.com/article/the-citizen-of-the-world-presidency-1/

    We bitter clingers need to stop bitterly clinging to the idea that the nation state is worth defending. He promised not just to end the war in Iraq back in 2008, but to end the “bad habits” that keep getting us into wars in the first place. That’s why his fellow transnational progressives in Scandinavia gave him the Nobel Peace Prize.

    History is on his side, said the Freshman Dorm administration Resident-Assistant-in-Chief.

    Steve57 (e16ed8)

  32. * but he hates it like I would hate Nazi Germany or the USSR

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  33. Heh. Auto-correct changed political leaders to political leaves. I guess it has a low opinion of politicians!

    DRJ (e80d46)

  34. Well, one of the main roots of evil. Along with freedom of conscience, representative democracy, and free market capitalism.

    Steve57 (e16ed8)

  35. You’re a more forgiving man than I, Kevin M. I would never consider a commie my President. Ever. Even if he got 99% of the vote. I don’t even consider the lying scum an American let alone my President.

    Hoagie (58a3ec)

  36. There is a reason “patriarchy” is called that. The father is the natural leader. Naturally, like coming into being because it is what it is, not as an artificial social construct.

    nk (dbc370)

  37. Who gives a crap whether Obama loves this country or hates it? He’s screwing it up either way.

    Exactly. We discussed this on a different thread years ago. My take on Obama isn’t so much that he hates America, it’s just that he has a radically different vision for America than so many of us do. I think he sees America as a larger version of France or pre-Thatcher Britain — a large multicultural state with a gigantic social welfare state — and I think he genuinely believes that the media/academic/bureaucratic class is the best way to make things hum along smoothly. He has a massive distrust of free enterprise, so to the degree that he is willing to tolerate capitalism (he sees nothing wrong with people he likes getting wealthy, for instance) he wants it to be tightly controlled by government. He’s prone to the leftist conceit that all things Third World are noble and authentic, and that anyone with claims of historic repression by the West must de facto be the good guy. He’s surrounded himself his whole life with radicals, but has had the good sense to always keep just enough distance so that he doesn’t get closely associated with them. He’s skillfully played upon the collective guilt of white liberals his entire life to ascend to heights that are frankly beyond his rather pedestrian abilities, but he’s charismatic enough to just get by.

    JVW (887036)

  38. It’s important because feelings get votes.
    You may be logical and care about policy but you are in the minority.
    ‘Feelings’ and ‘caring’ get way more votes up front. Results only get some votes on the back end.

    luagha (2ab7c9)

  39. 36. …My take on Obama isn’t so much that he hates America, it’s just that he has a radically different vision for America than so many of us do.

    JVW (887036) — 2/19/2015 @ 8:54 am

    That’s like saying ISIS doesn’t really hate Italy. It’s just that ISIS has a radically different vision for Italy than the Italians do.

    Here’s the reality of the situation: until they achieve their visions, they hate those countries.

    After all, it would be hard to love the country that Michelle (speaking for the both of them since Barack had a presidency to lie his way into) called “downright mean.”

    Steve57 (e16ed8)

  40. So sorry to have to post this –but according to Bret Baier tweet this morning, Jen Psaki has been promoted. She will be President Obama’s new Communications Director.

    elissa (9b6830)

  41. You’re a more forgiving man than I, Kevin M. I would never consider a commie my President

    I didn’t say I did, either. He does, however, hold the office. It is the office I respect, seldom the mere men who hold it. The only two Presidents I have respected in my lifetime were Reagan and Kennedy. The rest have been disappointments.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  42. I’ve read Sowell’s book but it was pre-chemo and I don’t remember it, so I’m not sure if I agree or disagree with his ideas. I care about a politician’s policies but some politicians will lie if they think they can get away with it, and Obama and Clinton are proof that modern politicians think they can lie about everything. So it’s not enough for me that politicians talk about their support for their country, capitalism and American values.

    Obama lied about his support for traditional marriage and values, and we knew or should have known he was lying because he denounced the “bitter, clingers” who believe in those things. He rejected capitalism to be a community organizer. And his minister (“Chickens coming home to roost”), wife (“For the first time in my adult life, I’m proud of my country”), and choice of associates (Jarrett, Holder, Ayers & Dohrn, etc.) prove that he doesn’t identify with people who believe in American exceptionalism.

    I’d like to support politicians who stand for principles and policies I support, things like defending all the Constitution, the rule of law, expanding school choice, reforming the tax code, repealing Dodd-Frank, passing a balanced budget agreement, repealing ObamaCare, and stopping amnesty. But the point isn’t finding someone who agrees with everything I believe. The point is finding politicians who stand up for principles I support. I want someone who has walked the walk by putting his career on the line for conservative principles.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  43. Obama would never sit in Rev. Wright’s pews and listened to his anti-American screeds if he loved America. He tolerates America. Maybe that’s the same as love for some people, but not where I live.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  44. “Egalitarianism has corrupted me, too. After my father died, I am leaderless and rudderless, like the Ancient Mariner or the Flying Dutchman, because I don’t consider anyone to be better than me anymore.”

    nk – Interesting statement but not the question asked. Nevertheless, you know everybody here admires you for your humility.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  45. I also agree with Kevin M, but I would say it in a different way: Obama tolerates America but hates its institutions and the principles for which it stands.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  46. Obama would never sit in Rev. Wright’s pews and listened to his anti-American screeds if he loved America. He tolerates America.

    Just as he tolerates Jews and white people, so long as they donate.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  47. Exactly, and I think Giuliani’s statement was a short-hand way of saying the same thing. There isn’t much difference between hating American values and institutions and hating America itself.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  48. Barry the Dimwitted is a #SCOAMF.

    redc1c4 (589173)

  49. Humility is for the humble. In any event, the person who asked the question, Leviticus, appeared satisfied with the answer.

    nk (dbc370)

  50. Character informs policy. Where do you think his policy comes from? When he has to make a snap decision, what is he relying on? You can’t completely crook-proof a system. Having some guy who is decent and loves his country means that you are more likely to get good results when there is room for flexibility.

    OmegaPaladin (a0e77e)

  51. Re: I have no doubt that the world is crammed full of sincere Marxists who believe that their vision is best for the world. Present me a choice between one of those sincere Marxists, on one hand, and an insincere Republican who I believe will mostly carry out policies that favor the free market, on the other — and I will choose the insincere Republican every time.

    I’ve lived most of my life (so far) under communism. One of my distant cousins was one of those sincere Marxists/Communists. He had been jailed, tortured by Italians as a communist and when communists came to power in my country he readily joined them. He helped them along the way do everything that was required in the name of Communism. He ‘collected’ the others property and possessions, as he used to say, “without paying attention or desiring what I got and what I handed over, i.e. without a thought of getting any piece of it for myself”. A lot of gold was sequestrated that way. He became disillusioned by the others that did indeed re-route some of that gold into their pockets.
    That said, whether sincere or not, he helped pave the way to the 50 years of communism hell and the aftermath. Sincere or not, a lot of bad things happened aided by his sincere communism and ultimately, he was part of the system.

    Selim Tavlla (c2b6c7)

  52. Poor Debbie Poodleman is appalled that “GOPers stay silent when one of their own questions the President’s patriotism”.

    Can frantic Dem fundraising emails be far behind?

    elissa (9b6830)

  53. Knotting DWS’s nickers alone makes it worth it.

    nk (dbc370)

  54. That’s just grand!

    Strategic lying seems a non-partisan pursuit, though Republicans are far less artful in their implementation. I like to think that this is because, deep down, Republican pols understand lying is a Ten Commandments level sin. Marco Rubio presents a fine case in point, as he struggles with his position on amnesty. Rubio’s struggle, at times, seems endearing in that it suggests a complete lack of guile. Of course, it also suggests both a lack of confidence and a lack of principle. Sometime, I’d like to sit down with Rubio for a beer; I do not want him at the head of our party.

    So what is the appeal of someone like Rand Paul? I think it is that despite the fact his views may be off on the fringe somewhere, they are honest and heartfelt. He is the antithesis of the Etch-a-Sketch Republican. At the heart of the Republican honesty problem is that most pols are beholden to K Street. It is hard to imagine Rand Paul ever being beholden to K Street. The “stupid vs. incompetent” debate over the feckless behavior of Republican elected officials completely melts away once you realize that they are responding both intelligently and competently to the only constituency that matters to them: Washington lobbyists. With regard to Rand Paul, all this makes for great theater as K Street and its minions do everything in their power to marginalize the comparatively sane Paul Jr.(compared to his Dad, that is) and Paul counterattacks by ingratiating himself to Mitch McConnell and the party elders. It is proving an entertaining spectacle.

    That leaves many of us, yourself included, with Ted Cruz, a man who by all appearances is both honest as the day is long and an eminently well reasoned conservative. It appears to me that your professed support for Cruz has far more to do with the former than the latter. There are many well reasoned conservatives, though not so many honest ones, after all.

    The problem with Obama is not even touched on by your analysis, though it is by Giuliani’s. The problem with Obama is that it appears there is a maliciousness to his governance and, even, to his own world view. Jimmy Carter, by contrast, was an almost equally inept President, but his policies and personal world view never gave the suggestion that he was motivated by anti-American animus. It was clear, even at the time, that the Carter presidency was an unmitigated disaster, but at no time did I view him as anything worse than a fool – and at times, even a likeable one. I think far worse things about Obama. Most of us do. I think you do too.

    ThOR (a52560)

  55. By the bye, how can a prosecutor, of all people, dismiss the state of mind of a subject?

    ThOR (a52560)

  56. you know who loves america?

    Me! I love america from the mountains and the prairies to the chockit soft serve cones

    but you know who doesn’t love America?

    Barack Obama. Cause his mama didn’t raise him right.

    We have us a situation.

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  57. So you love America more than beans? Because Mexico has the best beans.

    nk (dbc370)

  58. i do i do i can’t even tell you Mr. nk

    it makes me so sad what food stamp done on our poor little country

    and it’s all cause he doesn’t love America

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  59. “But to me, all of that is secondary. The main problem is that his policies are terrible. I think discussions about whether he loves this country are wonderful red meat, but ultimately pointless.”

    but you can do both right … ? maybe not … you do realize that you can’t convince people his policies are sh*t when they think he’s a great guy … policy discussions are pointless to those that think Obama is a nice guy … you have to burn down his reputation first, then burn down his policies …

    thats always the pattern the Dems use … normally at the same time … you are evil therefore your policy is sh*t … they never separate the 2 and neither should you or you will be having more pointless discussions about policies that convince nobody …

    KaiserDerden (faa0ee)

  60. The thing is this was what passes for a gotcha moment for the hate America first and always crowd.

    Gulliani was in off the record mode with friends or acquaintances with some MSM dickhead eaves dropping, paraphrasing what was said in scribbled short hand.

    It’s akin to the very occasional / semi regular trick mic button employed by Dem operatives in the Assembly chambers in Sacramento, where they unbeknownst to the target flip the remote mic switch to catch the Assembly Republican talking about the girlfriend in an unguarded moment.

    It’s informed by the same type of cynical mind that hires a Marie Harf to go out and lie to the public, because she has blond hair, a vagina, and a mental detachment from the results her lie will have directly or indirectly on everybody she knows or professes to love.

    They think this sure will make it easy for Rachel Maddow and Amanda Marcotte to defend Hillary in the upcoming election.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  61. papertiger, I’m not sure I get your point. I doubt that Rudy minds one bit that he was “overheard”, so I don’t view it as a “gotcha” or as something he wishes he hadn’t uttered. In fact, I can almost see him grinning ear to ear that his honest comments about the president are getting such play. Rudy’s grin has always been one of his most endearing qualities. All the Dems having conniptions just makes it all the better! Especially when they (including senator Obama) are on tape calling GWB “unpatriotic”.

    elissa (881974)

  62. Team r is petrified of the media, I doubt they could get a dozen or so congress peeps on the same page and come out and speak about the objections they have against obama and his failed thinking of America. Timid leadership kills morale.

    mg (31009b)

  63. I just finished reading Sowell’s book and find myself seeing the unconstrained/constrained visions — the conflict — in just about everything I read. I suppose what makes me so heartsick is my/our/their inability to distinguish between truth and lie. We are in bad shape, huh? As far as Barack Obama is concerned, I do not pray for him — instead, I ask God to “raise up the righteous and bring down the wicked.” And especially, “break the teeth of the wicked.” I do appreciate this blog and all the commenters. And thanks, Patterico, for recommending Sowell’s book.

    Karen Ferris (295158)

  64. 44. … Obama tolerates America but hates its institutions and the principles for which it stands.
    DRJ (e80d46) — 2/19/2015 @ 9:43 am

    You forgot to mention Americans, DRJ. Barack Obama hates Americans. Which is why he’s trying to import a different people.

    After the uprising of the 17th June
    The Secretary of the Writers Union
    Had leaflets distributed in the Stalinallee
    Stating that the people
    Had forfeited the confidence of the government
    And could win it back only
    By redoubled efforts. Would it not be easier
    In that case for the government
    To dissolve the people
    And elect another?

    Sure, as far as leftists are concerned something called America that lies in the vacuum between Mexico and Canada is tolerable. Just so long as its founding principles are discarded, its institutions destroyed and replaced, and its population exchanged. In other words, as an empty vessel they can tolerate America. Just dump out what’s in it, refill it, and they’ll keep the old label on the jar.

    Steve57 (e16ed8)

  65. You are correct, because just as in any other abusive relationship with a narcissistic sociopath – even if we collectively DID love him – we could never love him as much as he loves himself and he would hate us for it.

    MJN1957 (6f981a)

  66. Elissa – I was rebutting Pat’s comment.

    I think discussions about whether he loves this country are wonderful red meat, but ultimately pointless.

    My point is this was off the record eavesdropping by a Democrat pick pocket (or the equivalent there of).
    Rudy probably thinks discussion of how much Obama loves America are beside the point as well.
    For all we know.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  67. Yes, Steve57. And that’s where the 25 million (+ or – ) comes in to play with Obummers radical friends. They’ll dump an refill as many times as necessary.

    Hoagie (58a3ec)

  68. ” It does matter to me that he doesn’t seem to “get” the country.”

    I agree and that is a problem for many on the left. Read Huffington Post or one of the other lefty blogs. The most important characteristic Obama has to most of them is his race. That is what makes them feel good and that is what is important. Ms Harf says the jihadis only need jobs and that makes her feel good about herself. It doesn’t matter to her that many of the worst come from the educated classes in Muslim countries. She doesn’t know, or doesn’t care that Sayyid Qutb taught school in Centennial Colorado and was horrified to see men and women dance together in 1950s America. He then went on to found the Muslim Brotherhood that is at the root of our war.

    As for whether Obama “loves America,” I doubt he loves anything but himself. As for his feelings about the country, if he thinks about it, it is probably on the order of wondering why we were so dumb as to vote him into office. I doubt he is even that objective. He probably considers us lucky to know him.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  69. That’s not to say I don’t agree with you, Elissa. It’s brilliant politics, wrong footing Obama’s media henchmen like that.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  70. Patterico:

    I generally come away from such discussions irritated. I have no doubt that the world is crammed full of sincere Marxists who believe that their vision is best for the world. Present me a choice between one of those sincere Marxists, on one hand, and an insincere Republican who I believe will mostly carry out policies that favor the free market, on the other — and I will choose the insincere Republican every time.</blockquote> First, I sincerely hope that these won’t be our choices in the future, or we conservatives might as well give up.

    Second, I’ve been puzzling over this all afternoon. The reason I care about what motivates politicians is because what they’ve done in the past helps us decide (however imperfectly) what they might do in the future, and politics is all about the future. We have to understand how they think in order to understand what they might do.

    I’m constantly puzzling over how Obama thinks. I’ve considered whether he’s motivated by anti-American, Muslim, atheist, Marxist, and elitist principles, and I think he’s influenced by each. But I think what best explains his domestic policies and some of his foreign policies is racism and the black grievance industry.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  71. My apologies. I’m not sure what happened to my formatting but feel free to fix it.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  72. I am speechless regarding Obola’s incompetence and fecklessness. But it brings to mind the situation many countries in Europe found themselves in the 15th and 16th centuries. Their monarchs were so inbred that they couldn’t produce functional offspring. And so there was a period when many countries were casting about for a modestly competent ruler. The Stuarts did their worst for merry old England and Oliver Cromwell put paid to some of that. But Cromwell was so despised that they invited yet another Stuart back to see if he could make a go of it. But that failed, and William and Mary were recruited to right the ship. That, alas, didn’t result in a dynasty. And England had to go shopping for yet another somebody to rule them. They ended up with a bunch of clowns who could hardly speak the language. And America was born.

    So when we think of Obola, don’t despair. We may lose a few cities to nukes, we may all get to meet each other in a reeducation camp in Idaho, ISIS may coerce the UN into accepting the notion that the earth is the center of the universe, and the written history of the past millennia may be recast into some fantastic parodies. But this has all been experienced before.

    The regrettable aspect of this whole fiasco this that we seem to be resigned to repeating it yet again. If Walker couldn’t find the guts to support Rudy, then one more prospect has bitten the dust.

    bobathome (f208b6)

  73. First, I sincerely hope that these won’t be our choices in the future, or we conservatives might as well give up.

    It’s not far from our choice last time, except Obama was insincere.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  74. Sorry, guys, but sometime I have a Pollyanna reflex. Here goes:

    Throughout my entire life – now close to 60 years – the world has had a free ride on the blood and treasure of Americans (and, in actuality, for far longer than that). We stood up to the bullies of the world, thus permitting everyone else to act like moralizing weasels (President Obama’s mindset was clearly shaped by those weasels). The weaseling was always and everywhere a repulsive spectacle, but the Europeans and, especially the French, were the masters. Now they get a taste of what life is like when left to fend for themselves. Somehow placating the Palestinians no longer appears to be the linchpin to securing peace in the Middle East when ISIS in on the verge of launching attack jets against St. Peters. And if ISIS doesn’t get them by bombing and strafing, then they will simply turn their large and growing fifth column against the Europeans. And to think, up until recently, Obama was far more popular on the other side of the pond than he was even here at home. There is a karmic aspect to this which is difficult to ignore.

    ThOR (a52560)

  75. for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee or yee:

    the attack on the Rome, seems farfetched, but none other than the chaplain of the Saudi Naval Academy, (which is in itself a paradox) has entertained it, and he’s been a major funder for ISIS through outfits like the Muntada Trust

    narciso (ee1f88)

  76. Obama tolerates America but hates its institutions and the principles for which it stands.

    Obama wants to put a privileged America in its place and bring it to heel leaving a much small footprint in the world at large. We need to know our place and he is the one to show us what that is. That is not being tolerant. To the contrary.

    Dana (8e74ce)

  77. Patterico:

    I agree this has been our choice in recent elections, but we can’t do this much longer.

    Regarding my other point, here’s how I think racism and the black grievance industry is impacting Obama’s foreign policy: Obama treats Iranians and Muslims like modern-day American blacks because he sees them as victims of long-term, pervasive institutional bigotry/racism. He believes it’s incumbent on the rest of the world, and especially Western countries and privileged whites, to admit their role in colonialism that burdens the Muslim world. He sees Iranians and Muslims through the same prism that he sees blacks in America, and acts accordingly.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  78. Dana,

    I bet Obama feels like his actions and feelings are tolerant. IMO Obama thinks black people have suffered and endured unfair hardships for generations, and it’s only their tolerance that prevents them from resorting to violence or revolution to remedy those injustices.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  79. By the way, Sowell distinguished between “sincerity” and “fidelity to the truth.” The latter, he holds, is critical to adherents of the constrained vision, while adherents of the unconstrained vision (Jonathan Gruber anyone?) feel comfortable shading the truth to accomplish the goals that the best and the brightest have deemed necessary.

    I think some here might be equating the two, but Sowell does not. And I do not.

    I am working on my comprehensive post about the book. I think it will help. But it will take a while. I took a lot of notes.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  80. And he sees himself as the Abraham Lincoln of his generation because he hasn’t resorted to violence to accomplish his goals. He may have violence thrust upon him but he won’t choose it. The irony is everything he does makes violence and war more likely.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  81. I look forward to your post. I was talking to someone about this today. He mentioned that modern liberals have redefined truth and that makes it impossible to negotiate with them, because we can’t agree on the basic facts.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  82. I disagree that Obama doesn’t love America.

    He loves the part of this nation where the mindset and voting patterns are along the lines of those of [insert name of some dysfunctional, needy, clinging-to-leftism community].

    He loves such aspects of the US, but he doesn’t necessarily want to live around such places and their people on a 24/7, 365-days basis. For example, the maneuverings that he and Michelle — and their socio-ideological ilk (hello, limousine liberals of Silicon Valley and Manhattan!) — go through in order to ensure their children don’t attend schools full of kids residing in neighborhoods where over 90-plus percent of the residents are loyal, dyed-in-the-wool liberals/Democrats.

    I’m wondering if a conservative counterpart to that exists anywhere in the US? Or where over 90-plus percent of the people of a community are staunchly Republican and rightwing, yet also trapped in a socio-economic disaster zone—but in spite of that never change their political stripes one iota, decade after decade.

    Mark (c160ec)

  83. I use Plato’s allegory of the cave,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  84. Heh! You all are attributing undeserved complexity of character to an overgrown baby. He is the most successful welfare recipient in history, in a position to reward those “strangers” whose “kindness” gave him all the goodies he got, i.e. progressives, minorities and idiots, and without a clue on how to do anything else except play golf and watch basketball. That’s all he is.

    nk (dbc370)

  85. He sees Iranians and Muslims through the same prism that he sees blacks in America, and acts accordingly.

    I think liberals in general have a tendency to perceive both people and situations in, as I’ve labeled it before, an “ass-backwards” manner. That’s where — in their world — good becomes bad, bad becomes good, all predicated upon a distorted sense of who or what is compassionate or not, who or what is the underdog or not, who or what is successful or not.

    The opposite extreme of this are chauvinists, survival-of-the-fittest snobs and cliquish, sorority/fraternity type of elitists.

    Bleech to both.

    Mark (c160ec)

  86. 77. …Obama treats Iranians and Muslims like modern-day American blacks because he sees them as victims of long-term, pervasive institutional bigotry/racism. He believes it’s incumbent on the rest of the world, and especially Western countries and privileged whites, to admit their role in colonialism that burdens the Muslim world…

    DRJ (e80d46) — 2/19/2015 @ 6:19 pm

    That is what is so despicable about the man. At the beginning of the Arab conquest Egypt was 99% Christian. Now it’s 10%. That is the result of 14 centuries of Quran-authorized persecution. Throughout the M.E., North/East Africa, Southwest Asia, wherever Muslims rule religious minorities are oppressed. Or, in the case of S.A., eliminated entirely. By design. There is no equality between Islam and other religions. The Quran forbids it. Non-Muslims will be cast into Hell in the afterlife, and Muslims are supposed to be Allah’s instrument of punishment in this life. Forget ISIS. What about Pakistan’s blasphemy laws? In Pakistan a Christians can and are sentenced to death merely for proclaiming what they believe. In Islam the gravest sin one can commit, unforgivable per the Quran, is shirq. One commits shirq by assigning partners to Allah. Simply expressing belief in the Trinity is considered shirq, and Christians are being killed for it. And not just in Pakistan, other Muslim countries have similar laws.

    Christian girls are kidnapped, raped, and forced to convert to Islam. Again, not by ISIS. Throughout the M.E. And when their families look for them the police send them home, telling them they no longer have any claim to their own family members now that they are “safe” with the Muslim Ummah.

    You can’t build a church in S.A. If you’re a foreign worker in S.A., such as a Filipino laborer, you can’t even get together with other Christians and pray. The religious police will raid the home and arrest everybody if they find out.

    The despicable Barack Obama ignores all this, and the slaughter of Christians throughout the M.E. even today (he tried to ignore even the slaughter of 21 Copts in Libya until the ridicule forced his hand) in order to stick to the fantasy that it’s the Muslims who are the victims.

    Watching this man over the past few days made me flash back to the fact he refused to vote for the state’s Born Alive act. He would rather a baby who survived an abortion die cold and alone in a utility closet with the rest of the medical waste, denied medical care and even comfort, than abandon his precious, false narrative.

    The man is a moral monster.

    Steve57 (e16ed8)

  87. The reason I didn’t mention the Jews is that they were largely slaughtered or forced out last century.

    Steve57 (e16ed8)

  88. nk,

    We were talking about secession the other day. Ron Paul says its already starting with states standing up to, refusing to obey, and/or suing to reject national laws they don’t want.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  89. I saw that, DRJ, but a Texas county already granted a gay marriage license, so I guess it won’t start there now. Let’s see if the Fifth Circuit stays Mance, and what Texas does then. I’m also waiting to see what Alabama does. Its state chief justice told the counties not to obey the federal district court’s ruling on gay marriage. Alabama was the Heart of Dixie, wasn’t it? 😉

    nk (dbc370)

  90. As everybody knows, the Civil War was fought over Harriet Beecher Stowe wanting to marry Harriet Tubman, and it would be a shame if we had to go all over that again.

    nk (dbc370)

  91. The man is a moral monster.

    I fear any person who is both an idiot and fool when it comes to understanding the truly good and bad aspects of humans and situations. So the phrase of “well, his heart at least is in a good place” now makes me think of the comment of “well, he at least kept the trains running on time.” I’m afraid more and more Americans are falling for such cheap compassion and upside-down ethics.

    Mark (c160ec)

  92. I don’t think that was quite right, nk

    narciso (ee1f88)

  93. Ok, what is it, then? Georgia?

    nk (dbc370)

  94. no about Tubman and Stowe.

    narciso (ee1f88)

  95. 😉

    nk (dbc370)

  96. he takes the mullah pov over Israel,* the Qatari one over Egypt and the UAE, Volodya over the Ukraine’s

    narciso (ee1f88)

  97. * our favorite regime front group, NIAC, had an ad in the Times today,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  98. nk,

    I think Texans are conservative on many issues but we tend to be libertarian on social issues. In general, we’d rather leave it to the individual to decide how to live his or her life. However, there are two exceptions: One is abortion, but only because it involves two lives — the individual’s and the baby’s — and too often only the individual’s interests are considered. The second exception is when the government tries to tell us how to live our lives. I wouldn’t be surprised if Texans voted to allow civil unions or even SSM, but we hate being told by a court what we can and can’t do.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  99. Sure, narciso, but what you guys see as malice I see as path of least resistance. From a child who knows Aunt Betty will give him $5.00 if he gives her a hug and a kiss.

    nk (dbc370)

  100. I think Texans are conservative on many issues but we tend to be libertarian on social issues. In general, we’d rather leave it to the individual to decide how to live his or her life. However, there are two exceptions: One is abortion, but only because it involves two lives — the individual’s and the baby’s — and too often only the individual’s interests are considered. The second exception is when the government tries to tell us how to live our lives. I wouldn’t be surprised if Texans voted to allow civil unions or even SSM, but we hate being told by a court what we can and can’t do.

    All of this sounds a lot like me.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  101. well enough times, it adds up to enemy action,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  102. I’ll tell you, if the Court rules against Obamacare in Halbig and Obama says “Scalia made his ruling now let him enforce it”, I’ll be on the side of Obama. The federal courts are the biggest danger to freedom and democracy with their stare decisis Constitution (or, if you prefer, Justice Black’s “permanent Constitutional Convention”).

    nk (dbc370)

  103. except who insists on stare decisis, when they’ve gamed the system?

    narciso (ee1f88)

  104. it’s like the Brezhnev doctrine in reverse, every policy from welfare reform to the war on terror is reversible on our side, everything on their side is set in stone,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  105. Bad news. Marie Harf is not getting the top spox job at State when Psaki leaves. Marie’s TV appearance “auditions” this week apparently did not go very well.

    elissa (f51cca)

  106. they are waiting for National Security adviser to open up?

    narciso (ee1f88)

  107. I’ve said before how much I like Lawrence of Arabia so I’m biased on the subject, but Obama reminds me of T. E. Lawrence.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  108. narciso– that was not a softball interview, and Rudy more than held his own. He is enjoying this.

    elissa (f51cca)

  109. A repressed sado-masochistic homosexual who had contempt for his country, an empire on which the sun never sat, and admired the unwashed barbarians he had come to rescue from the Sick Old Man (no longer of Europe) because they were not a “fat people”?

    nk (dbc370)

  110. No offense, DRJ, the movie was great and so was O’Toole’s acting, but I found very little to admire in Lawrence’s character other than youthful energy.

    nk (dbc370)

  111. I’ll tell you, if the Court rules against Obamacare in Halbig and Obama says “Scalia made his ruling now let him enforce it”, I’ll be on the side of Obama.

    I don’t agree with that contention at all, for the simple reason that Obama has been as power hungry and politically greedy as leftwing activist judges have been and are.

    In a way my sentiment for the scenario you describe involves a desire for anarchy—being only somewhat sarcastic when I say that.

    Mark (c160ec)

  112. After seeing pictures of Barry on a bike I don’t think I want to imagine him on a camel!

    elissa (f51cca)

  113. you thought I was kidding;

    http://dailycaller.com/2015/02/19/marie-harf-wrote-thesis-on-how-conservative-support-for-israel-complicates-u-s-foreign-policy/

    no, he reminds of St, John Philby, the fellow who won the postscript of the film,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  114. the Hashemites were driven out of the Kingdom firist to Syria, then Jordan, Ibn Saud won the match,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  115. The problem is, Mark, that Presidents come and go after four or eight years, but their judges live on for generations. FDR’s until the ’70s, Eisenhower’s and Johnson’s into the ’90s, like I’ve said before. And their decisions are not reversed by elections.

    nk (dbc370)

  116. Of course, Lawrence was much more intelligent and understanding of Arabs, their religion and cultures than I suspect Obama is. However, like Obama, Lawrence was a genius at fomenting change who longed for the end of white supremacy. Despite or perhaps because of his utopian goals, Lawrence was unable to help the Arabs move beyond colonial rule and his actions threatened the established international powers.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  117. well no, he saw the Turks as the problem,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  118. nk,

    I like the movie and the fascinating story of his life and experiences, but I’m not a fan of Lawrence. As you concisely and expertly noted above, he was a flawed man.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  119. narciso:

    118.well no, he saw the Turks as the problem,

    I think Obama and Lawrence both view the Turks as the solution.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  120. That was Kim Philby’s father, narciso?

    nk (dbc370)

  121. But it’s true that Lawrence wouldn’t have trusted the Turks. I don’t know whether Obama does.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  122. The problem is, Mark, that Presidents come and go after four or eight years,

    nk, beyond even that particular issue, I suddenly realize that if the US were a leftwing society — if it were similar to, for example, Venezuela or certainly Cuba, and if the history of that nation (meaning if its Hugo-Chavez era definitely predated Chavez) were mirrored in that of the US over the past 200 years — I wouldn’t love the United States. But unlike two-faced liberals like Obama, I wouldn’t pretend or say otherwise.

    I’ve wondered in the past what it must be like for pragmatic, quality-conscious, right-leaning people who are native to societies like Mexico, et al, to deal with their country and the feelings they have towards it. I’m starting to get an inkling of what such people have to put up with.

    Mark (c160ec)

  123. DRJ, until Erdogan lots of people saw the Turks as the solution.

    On the main topic, I agree with what JVW said back in comment 36. Obama would honestly say he loves America…but what he thinks that term means and what our country’s core ideals are quite different.
    Of course there is also the wrinkle produced by the fact that narcissists like him have no real idea of what it means to love something.

    kishnevi (adea75)

  124. narciso,

    You make a good point because there are similarities between Philby and Obama. Both embrace socialist policies, both were Muslims at one point in their lives — Philby as an adult and Obama as a youth, and their sympathies are with the Arabs and not the Jews. I hope Obama isn’t able to do for the Iranians what Philby did for the Saudis.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  125. Ike Turner loved Tina too.
    It just meant something different to him…

    steveg (794291)

  126. Conservative people from Mexico miss the things they would have stayed there for… family, culture, traditions… they’d have gladly stayed if the greedy thieving corrupt bastards that run the place hadn’t pissed in the posole

    steveg (794291)

  127. they’d have gladly stayed if the greedy thieving corrupt bastards

    But do right-leaning Mexicans blame their fellow citizens for fostering the mess that has long been Mexico? If not, they should. After all, Mexico is enough of a democracy that the ideological biases of most Mexicans on election day do have quite a bit of sway.

    I’d say otherwise if the typical voting dynamics in Mexico were totally different from that of the typical political scene in blue-berserk urban America. Or, for another scenario, where a historically conservative Mexican legislature — as put into office by the voters — were often usurped by a liberal judiciary, not elected by the people but which had somehow wormed its way into power. The latter hypothetical will always exist in a dream world.

    Mark (c160ec)

  128. I am just sick and tired of TFG. This guy is a plague that has been visited on not just America, but the entire world. Goddam anyone stupid enough to vote for the prick.

    Colonel Haiku (3bf827)

  129. I’m in the set of {10, 34, ..} comprising those assigning Giuliani a grade of B minus for milquetoasting the evident enmity when the facts are we needs a lynching.

    Really bad. Yesterday.

    DNF (b3fb42)

  130. The plain truth is our gay crack whore national mascot is using every means at its disposal to undermine America in a false flag effort to give its enemies a foothold on her streets, in her homes, and in her assemblies.

    But these enemies are simply a ruse, an excuse to take control.

    DNF (b3fb42)

  131. preach it brother

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  132. Mr. P not to be nitpicky but the headline to this post really didn’t need the “Rudy Giuliani:” part

    it kind of confuses the issue, making it seem like this is all Mr. Giuliani’s idea instead of just being a factual description of the situation America is presented with

    a situation that needs to be discussed

    Why does Obama hate America?

    And why did Americans twice elect such a person?

    This is a discussion that every American can engage in, not just Mr. Giuliani. America’s schoolchildren should be presented with an essay contest that explores Obama’s hatred for America and what it means. Newspapers should editorialize on the issue, and round tables and panels need to be organized.

    Obama’s hatred for America has been the elephant in the room for far too long.

    Kudos to Mr. Giuliani for pointing it out, but the elephant belongs to all of us.

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  133. Giuliani might not have said it first, but he said it first widely heard. Prophets, honor, that kind of thing.

    nk (dbc370)

  134. Enjoying Chicago’s global warming, happyfeet?

    nk (dbc370)

  135. i have these gloves this guy gave me used many many years ago on a trip to NY in January

    this was before the fancy cell phone gloves and he’d ripped the fingertips out on two fingers on the right hand so he could work his phone

    on days like this I walk to work pretty comfortable really

    except for two very hurting fingertips

    i’m a pretty tough lil pikachu but it’s very distracting … I’m still fonder of these gloves than others i have though

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  136. My hot water in the kitchen is frozen. I lost water in the bathroom, but saved it with a space heater. I’m going to take a chance and hope it thaws in a few days, vs. doing the plumber electrical change on both ends of the pipe. Remind me why humans settled here?

    carlitos (c24ed5)

  137. I found some great ski gloves at Carson’s at the beginning of the season for $10.00, there’s no brand name on them except Thinsulate 3M 40 gram, but they’re all satiny and plasticky and fluffy, warmest gloves, not mittens, I’ve owned. I cut the thumb and 2 fingers off a Jewel dollar aisle knit glove for when I smoke, it’s good for about 3-4 minutes.

    nk (dbc370)

  138. Smoking is bad for you, nk. Except for cigars, which prolong your life.

    carlitos (c24ed5)

  139. good luck Mr. carlitos

    also nice to know about the plumber electrical thing he can do

    that wasn’t in the welcome to Chicago manual

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  140. I’m not sure it was hard at all for Rudolph Giulani to say, unless he thinks it is very rare for a politician not to love the United States and all its people.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  141. At first I would be the first to shout Giuliani down and call him an Obama hater. But ask yourself, do you feel loved as an American by this man or do you feel a disconnect somewhere? If Obama was all for America and loved America will it be in doubt? Will this even come up? Granted he may have some fondness for America but that to me is so far as it agrees with his agenda. Obama loves America but not the America you and I know and love. He loves the America he is making America to become; his America. He did not love the America he inherited but by God he will love the one he leaves behind.

    The Emperor (b304c8)

  142. Are you ready for the thing called truth?
    Every word he speaks floats like a Baby Ruth
    Did not float from above
    Take off the kid gloves

    No more kid glove treatment for the plague-on-two-legs!

    Colonel Haiku (3bf827)

  143. President Obama was brought up by world war 2 veteran grandfather and uncle. Vietnam war draft dodging rudy giuliani was brought up by draft dodging mafia father and 5 uncles none of which served in world war 2. Rudy loves ameriKKKa they way hitler loved nazi germany.

    truther (7ff770)

  144. you’re just mad cause Mayor Rudy told the truther about how Obama doesn’t love America

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  145. @truther. Obama was raised up in Indonesia in a Muslim school. Then he connected with suspicious and questionable characters who don’t really like America. That is the undeniable fact.

    The Emperor (281638)

  146. President Obama was brought up by world war 2 veteran grandfather and uncle. Vietnam war draft dodging rudy giuliani was brought up by draft dodging mafia father and 5 uncles none of which served in world war 2. Rudy loves ameriKKKa they way hitler loved nazi germany.

    truther (7ff770) — 2/20/2015 @ 12:11 pm

    Obama was raised by Commies, schooled by same, for all intents and purposes.

    Colonel Haiku (3bf827)

  147. Buh-bye, Perry

    JD (86a5eb)

  148. Hi, JD.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  149. Obama loves America, like a cousin.

    sing (63307f)

  150. Baby oil and breath mints. I was afraid to click. DiBlassio!

    nk (dbc370)

  151. part of the proposed training regiment

    narciso (ee1f88)

  152. I read it. They fired the doofus. It’s a “good” contrast to Giuliani (and Bloomberg as much as it pains me to say it).

    nk (dbc370)

  153. I don’t follow, Guiliani was successful on balance,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  154. It’s the opposite of Giuliani and Bloomberg, and their “broken window” strategy. This nonsense makes them look better.

    nk (dbc370)

  155. I don’t disagree with Rudy; my personal instincts lead me in similar directions.

    I just don’t think it’s a useful political argument or debating point, because it’s subjective.

    We are in a target-rich environment of facts that are objective, and that damn Barack Obama’s administration to historical perdition. I’d rather focus on those.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  156. 161. Facts in an ocean of lies.

    Unfortunately our America has a paucity of citizens able to juggle two dozen facts simultaneously and make sense of the whole.

    #PantsUpDontLoot

    DNF (f9babe)

  157. Again, TFG was born to, raised and schooled by commies.

    Colonel Haiku (3bf827)

  158. obama hates america and he’s in quite a tizzy trying to do stuff on her while he can

    go go go obama i’ll hold america down while you do your dirty bidness

    it’s all about team work

    happyfeet (831175)

  159. **trigger warning**

    happyfeet (831175)

  160. President Obama was brought up by world war 2 veteran grandfather and uncle.

    That doesn’t tell me a damn thing about such people, anymore than saying a candidate for a political office (or a person in general) is a male or female, black or white, native-born or immigrant, gay or straight, Jew or Christian, young or old, etc.

    Simply put, I’ll have a lot more confidence in the logic and perceptions of a person who’s a right-leaning male or female, or a right-leaning black or white, a right-leaning US native or immigrant, a right-leaning gay or straight, a right-leaning Jew or Gentile or a right-leaning college student or senior citizen.

    Beyond that, nothing irks me more than the socio-economic swamps created by (supposed) do-gooder liberals who, in too many instances (certainly if they’re well educated and success-oriented), vote with their feet and the moving van, and get the hell away from the disaster zones — both foreign (eg, Venezuela or Mexico) and domestic (many typical urban US areas) — where most of their fellow neighbors will also be of the left.

    Mark (c160ec)


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