Patterico's Pontifications


Charlie Hebdo Killers in Hostage Situation

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:49 am

Too much going on to summarize; follow updates at Hot Air.

94 Responses to “Charlie Hebdo Killers in Hostage Situation”

  1. Ding.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  2. you can tell they’re up to no good or why else would they take hostages

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  3. Grocery store hostage takers demand police back-off containment of Hebdo terrorists or hostages will be killed. Just now, explosions and attack on Hebdo compound underway. More explosions and gunfire in real time.

    ropelight (7e0118)

  4. I doubt the Hebdo gunmen have a hostage. The earlier report was that they chased people away saying “We don’t kill civilians”. It could be a dead person who fought back. News out of France is very untrustworthy.

    nk (dbc370)

  5. Kosher grocery store terrorists in Paris are threatening to kill their captives if police at Dammartin printing house surrounding Hebdo gunmen don’t back-off. Focus on grocery store now that assault on Hebdo terrorists is underway. Concern mounting for safety of Jewish grocery store patrons.

    ropelight (7e0118)

  6. the two murderer brothers are dead.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  7. Kouache Bros Dead! Yay!!!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  8. Sky News reporting Explosions heard in central Paris. Several hostages escape grocery store. Reports that others may have also escaped from grocery store.

    Also, additional reports that Hebdo terrorist brothers killed in Dammartin printing house.

    ropelight (7e0118)

  9. yes… confirming yes, ropelight… they. are. dead.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  10. I blame global warming and the historical warlike expansionist policies of Christianity.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  11. I blame smelly cheeses and a moronic death cult.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  12. It’s too early to open a bottle of champagne, but a dram of who shot John? may just fit the occasion.

    ropelight (7e0118)

  13. On Thursday, U.S. President Barack Obama made an unannounced visit to the French Embassy in Washington to pay his respects.

    He wrote in a condolence book, “As allies across the centuries, we stand united with our French brothers to ensure that justice is done and our way of life is defended. We go forward together knowing that terror is no match for freedom and ideals we stand for – ideals that light the world.”

    elissa (40c9e9)

  14. teh halal has-beens
    France must use Pershing Method
    on porc-craignant mutts

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  15. Remember, France is a Gun Free Zone.

    askeptic (efcf22)

  16. 14- Any idea who he cribbed that from?

    askeptic (efcf22)

  17. There’a CBS News special report being broadcast now, both on televisons and simulcast on radio (880 AM in New York)

    Both of he brothers are now dead. There is a lot of activity

    The other hostage situation, in the kosher grocery, with the third man, is also over.

    Sammy Finkelman (6b5229)

  18. My question is how far left must a liberal go before the media labels him or her “far left?” For instance, France’s current president is ideologically no less tilted to the left than Marine le Pen is tilted to the right. Yet, I’ve never seen any publication characterize France’s current president as “far left.”

    “Far right” might have been more correctly descriptive in the context of over 50 to 70 years ago. But in today’s distorted, misshapen, Nidal-Hasan-ized socio-political climate, “far right” is increasingly in actuality closer to “centrist.”, January 9: Jean-Marie le Pen, the father of France’s mainstream far right movement, provoked both outrage and support on Friday when he tweeted an image of his daughter Marine le Pen with the slogan “Keep Calm And Vote Le Pen.”

    France’s National Front, the far right party led by Marine le Pen, is widely expected to make political gains in the aftermath of the attacks. In an interview after the attack on Charlie Hebdo, Marine le Pen said that she had been warning of the dangers of Islamist fundamentalism for years. “It is the Islamists who have declared war on France,” she told France 2.

    While France’s next presidential election isn’t due until 2017, some polls are already showing Le Pen as the most popular candidate in first round voting. Socialist incumbent Francois Hollande has struggled with economic woes and personal problems since taking office in 2012. His approval ratings hit record lows last year.

    Online, there was clearly some support for the National Front: Jean-Marie le Pen’s message received more than 1,000 retweets in less than an hour. However, many users expressed shock at what they saw as a cynical appropriation of a tragedy. “Vous êtes odieux” (You are odious), one user tweeted at le Pen. “Manœuvre nauséabonde” (a nauseating political maneuver), wrote another.

    Mark (c160ec)

  19. three muslim mutts down
    its gonna be a great day!
    croissants for breakfast

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  20. Has Mayor de Blasio announced plans to attend the funerals for the Kouachi brothers? And if he does, will the French cops turn their backs on him too?

    ropelight (7e0118)

  21. 11. daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 1/9/2015 @ 8:31 am

    11.I blame global warming and the historical warlike expansionist policies of Christianity.

    The New York Times has a front page story in which it says there is a debate in Egypt (the heart of the Islamic
    world )

    On the one hand, there is whhat President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi of Egypt said last week in a speech to the clerics of the official religious establishment: that they need to stand sternly and there needs to be a religious revolution.

    Others, though, insist that the sources of the violence are alienation and resentment, not theology. They argue that the authoritarian rulers of Arab states — who have tried for decades to control Muslim teaching and the application of Islamic law — have set off a violent backlash expressed in religious ideas and language. Promoted by groups like the Islamic State or Al Qaeda, that discourse echoes through Muslim communities as far away as New York or Paris, whose influence and culture still loom over much of the Muslim world.

    “Some people who feel crushed or ignored will go toward extremism, and they use religion because that is what they have at hand,” said Said Ferjani, an official of Tunisia’s mainstream Islamist party, Ennahda, speaking about the broader phenomenon of violence in the name of Islam. “If you are attacked and you have a fork in your hand, you will fight back with a fork.”

    Sammy Finkelman (6b5229)

  22. Mark, in contemporary media, there is no such thing as a Far Leftist, as the center-of-the-road is somewhere between Lenin and Trotsky.

    askeptic (efcf22)

  23. They are trying to figure out how big this plot was.

    Sammy Finkelman (6b5229)

  24. Has the Times even reported on what el-Sisi said to the gathered Imams about Islam having a “Reformation”, or his attendance at the Coptic Christmas Mass?

    askeptic (efcf22)

  25. Was someone issuing the brothers orders? Or did they act on their own?

    The big problem is the time gap between the time the older brother was in Yemen and now.
    They are thinking this is maybe some mkind of a hybrid model.

    CBS News is conforming that the hostage takers in BOTH situations are dead. The single hostage at the printing plant was relased and all of the hostages in the grocery are free. Both operations happened just about simultaneously (about an hour ago)

    Sammy Finkelman (6b5229)

  26. They had access to the store’s security camera when planning the tactical assault.

    Sammy Finkelman (6b5229)

  27. They decided to do this before nightfall.

    Sammy Finkelman (6b5229)

  28. They called in the A Team.

    It was a kosher deli, not a grocery.

    Sammy Finkelman (6b5229)

  29. “They argue that the authoritarian rulers of Arab states — who have tried for decades to control Muslim teaching and the application of Islamic law — have set off a violent backlash expressed in religious ideas and language.”

    Sammy – Typical fuzzy headed reporting from the NY Times mixing ideas. You have had authoritarian rulers in Arab states who have not governed by Islamic law for years and years. Their overthrow and succession by authoritarian regimes governing by Islamic law is what has helped lead to the spread of Islamic extremism.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  30. FOX is reporting the female terrorist, supposedly one of the hostage takers, is still alive and that contrary to previous reports she wasn’t involved in the kosher deli hostage taking even though she is wanted for involvement with yesterday’s murder of the female police officer.

    ropelight (7e0118)

  31. Or maybe it was a kosher market.

    Flash ang grenades were thrown into the printing shop, and the two brothers came out fighting and were shot dead.

    The assault on the kosher grocery or deli or market happened a few minutes later.

    There are reports now that four hostages there were killed.

    I wonder if some one thought it would be agood idea to get this over before Shabbos, or whether the light was a factor.

    Sammy Finkelman (6b5229)

  32. 25. askeptic (efcf22) — 1/9/2015 @ 8:51 am

    Has the Times even reported on what el-Sisi said to the gathered Imams about Islam having a “Reformation”

    Not till yesterday, I think, and then only in an Associated Press article posted online:

    CAIRO — Egypt’s president opened the new year with a dramatic call for a “revolution” in Islam to reform interpretations of the faith entrenched for hundreds of years, which he said have made the Muslim world a source of “destruction” and pitted it against the rest of the world.

    The speech was Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi’s boldest effort yet to position himself as a modernizer of Islam. His professed goal is to purge the religion of extremist ideas of intolerance and violence that fuel groups like al-Qaida and the Islamic State — and that appear to have motivated Wednesday’s attack in Paris on a French satirical newspaper that killed 12 people.

    But those looking for the “Muslim Martin Luther” bringing a radical Reformation of Islam may be overreaching — and making a false comparison to begin with. El-Sissi is clearly seeking to impose change through the state, using government religious institutions like the 1,000-year-old al-Azhar, one of the most eminent centers of Sunni Muslim thought and teaching…

    It didn’t say whom he gave the speech to, until paragraph 10. The article says

    …el-Sissi called on them to promote a reading of Islamic texts in a “truly enlightened” manner to reconsider concepts “that have been made sacred over hundreds of years.”

    By such thinking, the Islamic world is “making enemies of the whole world. So 1.6 billion people (in the Muslim world) will kill the entire world of 7 billion? That’s impossible … We need a religious revolution.”

    So, it is nt just the 20th century, but hundreds of years. He might be going back to al-Ghazali (c. 1058–1111)

    In print, there is no mention of a “reformation” till today’s article, I think, and the idea is attributed to

    Prof. Sherif Younis, a historian at the Helwan University here who has led calls for an Islamic “reformation.”

    There is very little from the speech there.

    , or his attendance at the Coptic Christmas Mass?

    That was in there, on page A6 Wednesday.

    Sammy Finkelman (6b5229)

  33. Breaking news is never, repeat never reported accurately or with consistency between media outlets. Today is no exception. I believe the two bros are dead. Beyond that? Let’s wait.

    elissa (40c9e9)

  34. The 4 dead (per the associated Press) at the second hostage scene – the kosher grocery store/deli, include the gunman.

    Sammy Finkelman (6b5229)

  35. The gunmen yesterday first entered the wrong building. They told the gunman they were next door.

    Why didn’t they tell them they were far away – they moved out – last week. People don’t think quickly enough.

    The new address should have been plausible but 20 to 30 minutes of city traffic away – and either nonexistent or an abandoned building.

    Sammy Finkelman (6b5229)

  36. They called in the A Team.

    It was a kosher deli, not a grocery.

    Sammy Finkelman (6b5229) — 1/9/2015 @ 8:58 am

    Dommage que je le fou!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  37. “El-Sissi is clearly seeking to impose change through the state, using government religious institutions like the 1,000-year-old al-Azhar”

    Sammy – More bogus reporting by the NY Times. Al-Sisi has already banned the Muslim Brotherhood and now of Arab states have joined in banning them, but his speech at al-Azhar was asking religious leader to reevaluate Islamic thought that causes the world to hate the religion. Yes, your unfounded conclusions of yesterday were wrong. You can find a translation of the speech at Raymond Ibrahim’s blog, which is probably categorically off limits to carlitos.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  38. Did you mean “Je suis désolé pour l’imbecile”, Haiku?

    nk (dbc370)

  39. layers of fact checkers:

    narciso (ee1f88)

  40. Via a Chabad, I have a list of names, for prayer purposesof people taken hostage at the kosher market. This was two hours ago, so I do not know which are dead, nor ages, nor who might be related to whom.
    Shmuel Yitzchak ben Sara
    Mordecai ben Maya
    Andrea bat Susan
    Zeri bat Susan
    Noach ben Sara
    Meryl bat Nancy
    Sara bat Louna
    * not sure if that is a separate person or the second part of the previous person’s name.
    So four or five females, three males. Sara is a common name, so Shmuel and Noach may or may not be brothers, and may or may not be related to the Sara whose name is last on the list. Andrea and Zeri are probably sisters.
    Also, although the list I received gives their names in Hebrew form where known, it is quite possible, even probable, that not all of them are Jewish.

    kishnevi (3719b7)

  41. Several sources report the female hostage taker at the kosher supermarket escaped when the hostages ran away.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  42. “In print, there is no mention of a “reformation” till today’s article, I think, and the idea is attributed to”

    Sammy – Is there any reason for you to believe that after choosing to deliberately bury coverage of Al-Sisi’s major speech the NY Times would suddenly manage to get it right?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  43. On a day filled with horror and blood and fear in France I have to admit that your comment contribution made me laugh, narciso. Chris Cuomo–you da man!!!

    elissa (ac39c5)

  44. DRJ, did they confirm she was there in the first place? The reports I have seen say the male was alone today, and/or her whereabouts were unknown.

    kishnevi (a5d1b9)

  45. I don’t know, kishnevi. CNN reports police say she’s “on the run” and there was a secondhand report in The Independent that she was there:

    17.54 Harriet Alexander reports:

    A man who was at Vincennes and spoke to some of the survivors has just told RTL that the girlfriend of Amedy Coulibaly, Hayat Boumeddiene, was with him inside the Kosher supermarket.

    Also, AFP has an updated report that there are 4 critically wounded in the supermarket attack. I don’t know if that is in addition to the reported deaths, instead of the deaths, or a combination. I hope they all survived.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  46. Well, this is an interesting development:

    Hacker group Anonymous have released a video and a statement via Twitter condemning the attacks on Charlie Hebdo,…In the clip, a figure wearing the group’s symbolic Guy Fawkes mask is seated in front of a desk with the hashtag #OpCharlieHebdo…
    The figure, whose voice is obscured says: “We are declaring war against you, the terrorists.”

    They add that the group will track down and close all accounts on social networks related to terrorists in order to avenge those who have been killed.

    Walter Cronanty (f48cd5)

  47. kishnevi,

    I’m sorry. That link is to The Telegraph, not The Independent.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  48. We need to ban workplace violence and cartoons, or something.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  49. Thanks DRJ
    Another report I saw says four dead hostages, four badly injured, and two injured policeman…but it did not whether or not the terrorist was among the four dead, or whether all four were hostages, and whether or not the wounded policeman were among the four injured, or separate from them

    kishnevi (a5d1b9)

  50. #39… don’t know, nk. I had to rely on google translate, my French is merde…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  51. 43. They may not have gotten it perfectly right, but the idea of a reformation almost certainly didn’t originate with el-Sisi. They would probably have one of the more vocal proponents. Theyt probably got this right becaus etheir reporter knows something more.

    But they are catching up.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  52. daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 1/9/2015 @ 9:43 am

    You can find a translation of the speech at Raymond Ibrahim’s blog, which is probably categorically off limits to carlitos.

    ALl linka seem to go there eventually, but that’s a transaltion of only part of the speech – maybe the key part, but just part. I linked to a blog post that quoted it a couple of days ago.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  53. The link at 40 doesn’t work.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  54. I think it is called the Hyper Casher deli but it is really more of a grocery store.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  55. If you translate the the whole sentence Dommage = TOO BAD but dommage alone = PITY.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  56. It is being reported that one female suspect, also suspected of killing a policewoman in a separate incident, was able to escape by blending in with the escaped hostages.

    The information about the grocery store is less certain than about the printing shop.

    The 3 hostages who are dead were dead already by the time the police closed in on the hostage taker(s)in the grocery store. reporters are still not clear on whether there were two hostage takers, and if so, was one of them the African’s girlfriend – although the information that he had </I. a girllfriend seems to be on more solid ground.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  57. ABC: 15 minutes ago

    The number of hostages that were killed in the grocery store standoff has now been revised and government officials confirm that four hostages were killed. With the dead suspect, that brings the total number of deaths at that site to five people.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  58. There may not have actually been a hostage in the printing factory. ]

    While the owner, Michel Catalano, was in there, he was hiding, and the Kouachi brothers did not know he was in there.

    The police did, and the rest of the world did, but if the brothers heard the news, they didn’t believe it because they knew they very well they didn’t have any hostages.

    That would help explain why he wasn’t hurt.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  59. ABC 1 hour ago:

    A French TV channel, BFM-TV, reported that it spoke to two of the hostage takers during the sieges in eastern and northern Paris. Cherif Kouachi claimed he had been “commissioned” by Al Qaeda in Yemen and been trained by the U.S. cleric, Anwar Al Awaki, according to the TV station. He also told the station that “we are defenders of the prophet.”

    BFM-TV also said Amedy Coulibaly, the supermarket gunman, called the station at 3 p.m. local time and claimed he had “synchronized” his attack with the Kouachi brothers. He told the station he belonged to ISIS.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  60. But…

    Al Qaeda’s affiliate in Yemen — al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula — strongly rebuked ISIS in a video released Friday, declaring ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi’s declaration of an Islamic caliphate to be illegitimate.

    The statement, delivered by one of AQAP’s top clerics — Harith bin Ghazi al-Nadhari — is a significant setback to ISIS efforts to assume leadership of the global jihadist movement a week after groups in Egypt and Libya joined the ISIS fold.

    ISIS and al Qaeda’s top leadership in Pakistan had a bitter falling out earlier this year, and al Qaeda and ISIS fighters have been fighting each other in Syria, but AQAP had until now stayed above the fray, calling for both sides to reconcile and pool resources to strike the United States…

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  61. Even in rebuking ISIS, AQAP’s al-Nadhari was careful to refer to al-Baghdadi respectfully as “sheikh.”

    The cleric expressed hope that divisions between ISIS and Nusra could be healed and left the door open for fences to be mended between AQAP and ISIS if al-Baghdadi withdrew his fatwa claiming Yemen for his caliphate….

    ,,,To date, no senior leader within AQAP has broken ranks and come out in favor of ISIS. Wuhayshi, by all accounts, remains exceptionally popular with the group’s rank-and file-fighters, who have been energized by a call to arms to fight Shia Houthi fighters who recently took control of Sana’a.

    But AQAP’s rebuke of ISIS increases the chances of a splinter group emerging. Last week, a group calling itself Mujahideen in Yemen recorded a tape pledging loyalty to Baghdadi.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  62. Wait – I had that wrong.

    The police knew there was not any hostage in the printing business, butthe world did not.

    Maybe this started with them thinking there was a hostage, because one person was unaccuntd for, and then they found out he was hidin. The police then played along with the idea there was ahostage, because it would keep the brothers off guard, and maybe by then there was another hostage situation, or tghey wanted to try to capture one or more alive.

    Sammy Finkelman (6b5229)


    Not just what he did in 2014, but also what he did two years before.

    The bill is unlikely to pass the Senate, and the president has threatened to veto legislation that would undo his recent executive action, which will allow as many as five million undocumented immigrants to live and work in the country.

    Without action, the Department of Homeland Security would run out of funding at the end of February.

    This is what the House Republican leadership has bene trying to prevent.

    The Senate will probably take that out of the bill, so House Republicans will then be faced with defunding anti-terrorism policy or passing a bill that doesn’t overrule Obama.

    Obama has indicated he will veto Homeland Security funding if reversal of his actions on immigration is in the bill.

    Republicans on Friday were clear that they did not want to risk a shutdown of the Homeland Security agency, forcing them to straddle a risky balance between funding most of the department and stripping out money for the president’s unilateral immigration actions.

    “We have to have D.H.S. funded; it’s as simple as that,” said Peter T. King, Republican of New York. “It is absolutely essential that Homeland Security be funded, as far as counterterrorism.”

    I guess the thinking is, as long as they will have to cave anyway, stake out as extreme a position as possible. Its a game of chicken, with the goal being to be seen as less reasonable, and there is no way the Democrats will blink.

    Sammy Finkelman (6b5229)

  64. I suppose they’ll fund Homeland Secrity for a month or two, and maybe keep arguing, making this the most important political issue in the 2016 election.

    Sammy Finkelman (6b5229)

  65. Cut the crap, lefty multi-culti appeasers. The problem is Islam, and it must be exterminated.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  66. Copy that, Col.

    Two words you never hear
    muslim hostage

    mg (31009b)

  67. “43. They may not have gotten it perfectly right, but the idea of a reformation almost certainly didn’t originate with el-Sisi.”

    Sammy – No, sh*t! People have been calling for the reform of Islam for years, but has there been a President of a Muslim nation who has done it before Al-Sisi?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  68. Sammy – The criticism that Al-Sisi did not invent the concept that Islam needed to be reformed was a straw man you introduced to this thread all on your own. If you don’t believe his speech was significant, please just come right out and say so instead of being so obtuse.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  69. Sammy sides with Western media in refusing to welcome that speech and acknowlege it as significant. It has been a long time coming and hopefully al-Sisi won’t have done to him what was done to Anwar Sadat.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  70. For chrissakes, even Bob Beckel gets it.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  71. up to a point.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  72. This is rich:

    “Dean Baquet calls N.Y. Times critic ‘a–hole'”

    The critic is Patterico’s “buddy” Marc Cooper.

    Bacquet was defending the decision of the NY Times not to run the Charlie Hebdo cartoon with the laughable excuse “We have a standard that is pretty simple. We don’t run things that are designed to gratuitously offend.”


    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  73. Colonel – The speech could not have been significant if the NY Times did not cover it contemporaneously.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  74. Further update on the kosher market seige. The female terrorust was present and escaped. Four hostages were killed at the start. And 30 other customers hid in a downstairs freezer during the whole thing..

    kishnevi (a5d1b9)

  75. mister dean baquet
    of the slimy new york times
    no greater asshole

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  76. Re the NYT not printing the cartoons: It would have been dishonest to run the tamer Charlie Hebdo cartoons which are fit to print, and not the filthier ones, such as Mohammed naked in a doggie-style position or the one showing God, Christ and the Holy spirit in an anal threesome, which are too dirty even for the back pages of Hustler.

    nk (dbc370)

  77. Meanwhile here’s how failmerica’s barbaric Saudi royal trash allies deal with their lil Charlies

    Raif Badawi, who was sentenced to 1,000 lashes and 10 years in jail, was flogged 50 times. The flogging will be carried out weekly, campaigners say.

    happyfeet (831175)

  78. To be clarify Mr Feets last comment, Badawi will receive 50 lashes every Friday for 20 weeks in a row.

    Wonder what the women’s restrooms in Riyadh are like, speaking of binding and cumbersome clothes.

    The best argument for electric cars is Saudi Arabia…

    kishnevi (294553)

  79. Geraldo Rivera has a plan to fight to fight teh jihadists…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  80. He stood. Silent through 50 lashes. Tough man. Or the lashing is largely symbolic.

    nk (dbc370)

  81. Please Colonel! I try to avoid him even when he is fully clothed.

    kishnevi (a5d1b9)

  82. “Re the NYT not printing the cartoons: It would have been dishonest to run the tamer Charlie Hebdo cartoons which are fit to print, and not the filthier ones, such as Mohammed naked in a doggie-style position or the one showing God, Christ and the Holy spirit in an anal threesome, which are too dirty even for the back pages of Hustler.”

    nk – I’m just glad the NY Times never offends anybody, absolutely never.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  83. 71. Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 1/9/2015 @ 2:55 pm

    Sammy sides with Western media in refusing to welcome that speech and acknowlege it as significant.

    I didn’t say it wasn’t significant (although I don’t think it’s all that significant by itself. It’s rather, something unexpected)

    I linked to this days before the New York Times, or the Wall Street Journal became aware of it.

    It was first was picked up by Jewish and Christian religious web sites.

    Sammy Finkelman (6b5229)

  84. What I said was it was reasonable, and it wasn’t anything special for the New York Times to miss this until Friday.

    Sammy Finkelman (6b5229)

  85. “It was first was picked up by Jewish and Christian religious web sites.”

    Sammy – Ray Ibrahim picked it up the day of the speech. Pajamas Media two days later.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  86. “It was first was picked up by Jewish and Christian religious web sites.”

    daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 1/10/2015 @ 9:44 pm

    Sammy – Ray Ibrahim picked it up the day of the speech. Pajamas Media two days later.

    I didn’t mean really first. I meant before, or first among more widely read outlets. They (and Pajamas Media) picked it up from Ray Ibrahim I think.

    Sammy Finkelman (6b5229)

  87. 63 etc

    Some corrections:

    There was a known hostage in the printing plant, although not at the end, and ALSO a person in hiding, but the person in hiding was not the owner.

    Print shop Michel Catalano gave the two brothers fresh coffee to keep them from going into the back, where an employee was hiding underneath a sink. Then they let him go, and the owner decided it was better not to say anything about the person who was in hiding, although that was a difficult decision for him. (The brothers were saying they didn’t want to hurt anyone.)

    In the deli/kosher grocery store, a Muslim clerk of black African descent, Lassana Bathily, hid about 15 hostages, including an infant, inside the store’s walk-in freezer. He told them not to make any noise. Outside the freezer, Amedy Coulabi killed 4 people, one of whom worked in the store.

    A few hours into the seige, Bathily planned an escape, but the others were afraid to go, so he escaped alone, but then the cops thought he was one of the terrorists (an example of racial or religious profiling?) and told him to get down on the ground, and put his hands over his head, and cuffed him. They held him for about 1 1/2 hours.

    Hayat Boumeddiene, married to Ahmedy Coulibaly under Islamic law in July 2009, but not under French civil law, was not in the grocery and was not present when the policewoman was killed the day earlier, either.

    She took a plane trip from Madrid, Spain to Istanbul Turkey on Friday, January 2 and crossed into Syria on Thursday, January 8.

    People leaving the country – family members of possible terrorists, or big shot terrorists or a bunch of them – that is, people who might be arrested if they were connected to something that happened, but whose presence would not be necessary for the operation to succeed – could be a sign that something is about to happen, but this would have been hard to detect here, even if her movements were being watched in real time. She left from Spain, and didn’t leave Turkey until after something had happened.

    One of the people killed in the grocery store was the son of the chief Rabbi of Tunis who had moved to Paris to study marketing and international trade. He used to come into the store before every Shabbos. (the newspaper says every Sabbath, but this clearly must be Erev Shabbat, or Friday.)

    Sammy Finkelman (6b5229)

  88. Some ore additions and corrections:

    In the printing plant, the owner kept text messaging the police secretly while he was there.

    There was another person with ties to terrorism on the same plane that Hayat Boumeddiene took from Madrid to Istanbul on Friday January 2: the brother of some terrorist suspect.

    Sammy Finkelman (6b5229)

  89. Biographies of the victims in France:

    This one says the student in Paris was the son of the director of a Jewish school in Tunisia (not the chief Rabbi, although maybe it could be with the probability that the Jewish population is much reduced.)

    Sammy Finkelman (6b5229)

  90. The policeman who was assigned as a guard to Stéphane Charbonnier was married to a newspaper editor.

    Sammy Finkelman (6b5229)

  91. ANother thinbg I read said he was the son of the chief Rabbi.

    There were two freezers in the gorcery store. One of them wouldn’t close. Amedy Coulibaly sent a store employee to go fetch them, and he did, from one of the cold rooms. At the top of the staircase was a man dying in hisown blood. One man (the store clerk) attempted the seize a gun Coulibaly had left on the counter, but he was shot, and then Coulibaly had a hostage call a French TV station.

    Another hostage was 70 years old. He was asked if he was a Moslem and he replied that he was Mussawi, which means a follower of Moses, which is what Moslems called a Jew when they wanted to be very respectful. Coulibaly apparently misunderstood this to be a form of Islam he hadn’t heard of, and he wasn’t about to reveal his ignorance by asking a question.

    There wqere 17 or 18 victimes – 12 by the brothers, 4 in the grocery store, the policewoman shot and killed Thursday and also probably a jogger shot and killed Thursday.

    Sammy Finkelman (be6791)


    They’re looking in particular for the person who shot the video of Amedy Coulibaly.

    Coulibaly may have connections with organized crime. (He had drug offenses and armed robbery in addition to terrorist related offenses) That’s how he got the weapons. He had shotgun shells.

    And I think the French police had been penetrated. The Kouachi brothers knew they were no longer under surveillance. This has to be so.

    Interviewer: ok, so you came back to France not long ago ?

    Kouachi: No, a long time ago… I know the secret service, don’t worry about it. I know very well how I was able to do things well.

    Interviewer: Ok, and now there’s only you and your brother?

    Kouachi: That’s not your problem.

    Coulibaly said he gave (one of the Kouachi brothers) money to finish what he started.

    The phone of Hayat Boumeddiene (Coulibaly’s wife under Islamic law) and the phone of the married brother’s wife had 500 calls between them in 2014.

    Sammy Finkelman (be6791)

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