Patterico's Pontifications

10/15/2014

Did The CDC Clear Second Health Care Worker With Ebola To Board Plane?

Filed under: General — Dana @ 5:31 pm



[guest post by Dana]

UPDATE: The CDC has confirmed that the second healthcare worker did indeed call the CDC several times before flying, informing them of her fever.

NOTE: At the link, CBS news tries to provide some cover:

Officials in the U.S. have been trying to calm fears over the Ebola crisis, but time and again events have overtaken their assurances.

The second healthcare worker with Ebola is Amber Joy Vinson of Dallas. She flew across country on a commercial jet with 132 passengers on Oct. 13, with a low-grade fever. Just one day later she was symptomatic and went to the hospital.

Dr. Thomas Frieden of the CDC was adamant that she should never have boarded:

“She should not have been on that plane,” Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Dr. Tom Frieden said Wednesday after the nurse was confirmed to have Ebola.

Why not?

Because Vinson, a 29-year-old nurse at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas, helped care for Ebola patient Thomas Eric Duncan, Frieden said. And because another health worker who cared for Duncan had already been diagnosed with the virus.

“The CDC guidance in this setting outlines the need for what is called controlled movement. That can include a charter plane, a car, but it does not include public transport,” Frieden said. “We will from this moment forward ensure that no other individual who is being monitored for exposure undergoes travel in any way other than controlled movement.”

However, there is a report that Vinson inquired about the safety of boarding the plan beforehand. And who did she ask? The CDC:

CBS News Medical Correspondent Dr. John LaPook reports that Vinson called the CDC several times before boarding the plane concerned about her fever.

“This nurse, Nurse Vinson, did in fact call the CDC several times before taking that flight and said she has a temperature, a fever of 99.5, and the person at the CDC looked at a chart and because her temperature wasn’t 100.4 or higher she didn’t officially fall into the category of high risk.”

If this is accurate, then the CDC is far less in control of this crisis than we were originally led to believe and everything becomes suspect. And further, this certainly calls into question the CDC “guidance” that Dr. Frieden referred to.

–Dana

109 Responses to “Did The CDC Clear Second Health Care Worker With Ebola To Board Plane?”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (4dbf62)

  2. If we don’t ban people exposed to ebola from flying to the U.S., why would we ban them from flying inside the U.S.?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  3. I’m just guessing here but I think Dr. Frieden is a flaming jackass.

    With all due respect.

    gary gulrud (46ca75)

  4. undergoes travel

    nobody who talks like this should have serious responsibilities

    happyfeet (a785d5)

  5. Dana, I don’t think you can restrain interstate travel by American citizens without a court order specific to the person or by imposition of martial law. Entry into the country is a different matter, entirely.

    No, I do not know how they get away with no-fly lists. Ask Miguel Estrada.

    nk (dbc370)

  6. If this is true, then I think the point is Amber Vinson realized she should be careful. She tried to do the right thing and now she’s being demonized by the very people who were supposed to help protect her.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  7. Just like Nina Pham. If the Texas Presbyterian nurses were mad before, they must be apoplectic now.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  8. As I said, if this is true, then everything we are being told by the CDC, and specifically Dr. Frieden, becomes suspect. A young woman should not be paying the price for ignorance. And if Frieden is being dishonest about this, perhaps he needs to step down.

    Dana (4dbf62)

  9. the CDC lol

    you can’t make this stuff up

    happyfeet (a785d5)

  10. #2… excellent point, daley. Obama just doesn’t give a rip, truth be told. He has checked out, and it’s even more of a clown show from here on out.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  11. Apparently it’s true Vinson was told she could fly or, in lawyer-speak, she wasn’t told she couldn’t fly. According to the link, the CDC official who advised Vinson looked at the website to make the call.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  12. Thank you, Gary, at NO. 3. 🙂

    I’m sure she got the okay, and that whoever answered the phone is not a scientist but instead someone hired for a low salary whose job it is to consult the manual when someone calls. “Dr.” Frieden must be mortified. Gosh, forgot about that!

    According to the Repub who is convening the congressional hearings tomorrow, Frieden is worried about the effect of a travel ban on the “fledgling democracy.” They are not fledgling at all; I believe Liberia has existed for at least a hundred years. They probably have had the usual assortment of tyrants and socialists for rulers since then, and for that Americans must die, and that’s okay with “Dr.” Frieden.

    Patricia (5fc097)

  13. My question is whether, as a Duncan caregiver, Amber even had a direct line of communication into the CDC (like a caseworker) or if she was just calling an 800 number CDC help line and was treated the same as any random caller who asked a question about flying with a temperature. If there are CDC boots on the ground now, monitoring and managing the situation and protocols at the hospital then why was she even having to “call”?

    elissa (ec36fd)

  14. We truly are in the best of hands: “Vinson had been self-monitoring and was reporting her temperature to CDC epidemiology teams routinely.

    The federal government spokesman who spoke with NBC News said that Vinson called the CDC on Monday before flying from Cleveland back to DFW on Frontier Airlines Flight 1143, and she reported that she had a temperature of 99.5 degrees.

    According to the government spokesperson, when Vinson called in, the staff she talked with looked on the CDC website for guidance. At the time, the category for “uncertain risk” had guidance saying that a person could fly commercially if they did not meet the threshold of a temperature of 100.4.

    CDC Director Dr. Tom Frieden had said earlier Wednesday on a phone press briefing that Vinson “should not have traveled on a commercial aircraft.”

    Walter Cronanty (f48cd5)

  15. Liberia was founded by black American freed slaves when Monroe was President (that’ why Monrovia) and was independent in 1840.

    nk (dbc370)

  16. Yes, the best of hands – they really do have this under control: “Nurses from the Cleveland Clinic and MetroHealth Medical Center were among those on the Frontier Airlines flight with Dallas Ebola patient Amber Joy Vinson and are now on paid leave while their health is monitored for possible symptoms, the two health systems said in a joint news release this evening….
    Five Cleveland Clinic nurses were on the flight, according to Clinic spokeswoman Eileen Sheil. They will remain on leave at least 21 days, she said. A total of eight MetroHealth nurses were also on the flight, according to the health system. MetroHealth is holding a news conference Thursday at 9:30 a.m. to answer questions about the situation.”
    http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/index.ssf/2014/10/cleveland_clinic_metrohealth_n.html

    Walter Cronanty (f48cd5)

  17. So the Cdc was at the hospital! Someone is lying, like Frieden.

    patricia (5fc097)

  18. So are either of the nurses the Dallas patient bound for Emory?

    Or do we not have the need to know?

    gary gulrud (46ca75)

  19. Another interesting little conflict of interest-y/preconceived notion thing I just noticed:

    ABC News chief health and medical editor Dr. Richard Besser, an infectious disease specialist and the acting director of the Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) during the similarly sensationalized swine flu outbreak in 2009, tells THR that he understands the widespread fear. “But the big misconception about Ebola is that there’s risk to people in America. And that’s just not the case.”

    Keep this in mind when you watch any coverage of ebola from ABC.

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/ebola-panic-hits-tv-news-740796

    elissa (ec36fd)

  20. Ms. Vinson’s mom outside Akron is no longer free to go about her b’ness.

    Unexpectedly.

    gary gulrud (46ca75)

  21. Seems like calling the CDC for travel advice is like calling the IRS for tax advice.

    Walter Cronanty (f48cd5)

  22. ==So are either of the nurses the Dallas patient bound for Emory?==

    Apparently yes, gg, (not sure which one) based on this article which was linked by a commenter on the earlier Vinson ebola thread.

    A fourth patient will be arriving at Emory University Hospital from Dallas to be treated for the Ebola virus, Emory announced Wednesday.

    http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/emorys-third-ebola-patient-says-shes-recovering-wi/nhj38/

    elissa (ec36fd)

  23. You keep using that word, ‘contained’.

    What do you mean by it, exactly.

    gary gulrud (46ca75)

  24. 23. Yeah, linker nom de guerre, Chris. I was just thinking about Youngor Jallah, spouse and urchins, 5. Whassup? How you doin?

    gary gulrud (46ca75)

  25. I got this feeling news of some of these folks will dry up until after the midterms.

    Their 15 minutes have been pre-empted.

    gary gulrud (46ca75)

  26. Officials have said Vinson had extensive contact with Thomas Eric Duncan, the Liberian man who died of Ebola at Texas Health Presbyterian hospital in Dallas. Medical records provided to The Associated Press by Duncan’s family show Vinson inserted catheters, drew blood, and dealt with Duncan’s body fluids.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola-virus-outbreak/ebola-nurse-amber-joy-vinson-flew-plan-wedding-n226651

    elissa (ec36fd)

  27. Apparently another Ebola patient was treated at Emory but we could not be told that due to privacy. Huh? I don’t need to know her name just where she was infected.

    patricia (5fc097)

  28. The Dallas Morning News reports that Vinson was taken to Emory this afternoon by air ambulance that departed from Love Field. The Dallas Mayor said she was taken to Emory because she is in worse shape than Pham.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  29. with all this ebola pandemic going on it’s easy to forget that it wasn’t even two weeks ago that Chloe Moretz and her super-fun older brother Trev were checking out pumpkins!

    they bought 8 of them – all different sizes

    I’ve never had 8 pumpkins at one time in my whole life

    but I get to live what it’s like through the adventures of Chloe and Trev

    happyfeet (a785d5)

  30. The Cleveland newspaper says Vinson has 3 relatives who work at Kent State University, all of whom have been told to self-monitor and not to come to work for 21 days. Some of the reports say Vinson had gone home to plan a wedding. This report suggests she had gone home to help plan her mother’s wedding, not her own.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  31. I forgot to mention it but the air ambulance is a specially modified jet owned by the State Department.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  32. The 3rd Emory ebola patient is a WHO doctor from Sierra Leone.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  33. 20. …Keep this in mind when you watch any coverage of ebola from ABC.

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/ebola-panic-hits-tv-news-740796

    elissa (ec36fd) — 10/15/2014 @ 6:24 pm

    It isn’t just ABC. MSNBC’s Dr. Nancy Snyderman was supposed to be under a voluntary quarantine order. But she developed a craving for soup.

    Ask happyfeet how urgent the need to scratch that itch can be.

    So naturally Dr. Snyderman and a few friends went to a local restaurant for some take-out soup.

    Then she issued an arrogant, condescending statement about it.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/14/nancy-snyderman-ebola-quarantine_n_5981154.html

    While under voluntary quarantine guidelines, which called for our team to avoid public contact for 21 days, members of our group violated those guidelines and understand that our quarantine is now mandatory until 21 days have passed. We remain healthy and our temperatures are normal.

    As a health professional I know that we have no symptoms and pose no risk to the public, but I am deeply sorry for the concerns this episode caused. We are thrilled that Ashoka is getting better and our thoughts continue to be with the thousands affected by Ebola whose stories we all went to cover.

    The LHMFM tried to spin this as a sincere apology. Does anyone see an apology in there? I don’t. You’d never know the contemptible woman was one “member of our group” that broke quarantine from that statement. She won’t even take that much responsibility.

    Then she claims to know things about Ebola that we clearly can’t be sure of. Such as pretending there’s some sort of switch that has to be switched to the on position before a person is contagious. And we know precisely to a tenth of a degree when that switch turns from off to on.

    I’d say none of these people can be trusted. I for one am disgusted with repeatedly discredited claim of certain knowledge these people insist they possess.

    Steve57 (4d34f4)

  34. i always crave soup when I feel like I’m coming down with something

    happyfeet (a785d5)

  35. President Obama appears to be in damage-control mode:

    President Obama Wednesday that the dangers of a widespread Ebola outbreak in the United States are “extraordinarily low,” pointing to his own contact with medical personnel treating a patient infected with the virus.

    Speaking to reporters after a meeting with cabinet secretaries and other top federal officials, Obama said Ebola is being “taken very seriously at the highest levels of government,” but stressed that the risk of infection for the average American remains very low.

    Obama said he had been in close contact with nurses at Emory University hospital who cared for two American Ebola patients.

    “I shook hands with, hugged and kissed not the doctors, but a couple of the nurses at Emory, because of the valiant work that they did in treating one of the patients. They followed the protocols, they knew what they were doing, and I felt perfectly safe doing so,” he said.

    Dana (4dbf62)

  36. Ummm…did this nurse fly twice or once? Everyone makes it sound like once.

    One-way flight or a Round trip?

    DejectedHead (13c12c)

  37. Thanks for tracking down the third “mystery guest” at Emory, DRJ.

    elissa (ec36fd)

  38. RT, dejected head.

    elissa (ec36fd)

  39. I don’t have the scoop on Ms. Vinson’s seat assignment, but her plane made 5 more flights before taking a powder.

    If you flew Frontier to Cleveland, Ft. Lauderdale or Atlanta, you mightbe in for a surprise.

    gary gulrud (46ca75)

  40. That’s an interesting point gary. I didn’t even think of that.

    DejectedHead (13c12c)

  41. People think that if they go to Ohio they’ll never be able to get out of the damn place, but not true, it is possible.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  42. ohio i love ohio

    also i think that’s where Mr. JD did his trianglethon

    happyfeet (a785d5)

  43. And we still don’t know why lesbians are fat.

    nk (dbc370)

  44. The reports are inconsistent about when Amber Vinson left Dallas. They say Vinson flew to Cleveland on either October 8 or October 10. (Duncan died on the evening of October 8.) Vinson was visiting her family in Tallmadge OH. She returned to Dallas on October 13.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  45. it’s a lot cause they don’t do the trianglethons Mr. nk

    happyfeet (a785d5)

  46. nk @44, that’s why I’m so scared of Ebola. The disease works so fast I’m afraid I’ll die before I learn the answer to that burning question.

    Steve57 (4d34f4)

  47. I’ve updated the post.

    Dana (4dbf62)

  48. The timeline is important. Sheriff’s Deputy SGT Michael Monnig from Frisco was screened October 8-10, but he did not have ebola. Nina Pham went to the ER with a fever on the evening of October 10, and her diagnosis was confirmed on October 12. Thus, whether she left on October 8 or October 10, Amber Vinson left town before Pham went to the hospital. Vinson reportedly contacted the CDC about traveling the day before her flight, which means she called the CDC on October 12 — the same day Pham’s positive ebola diagnosis was reported. Frankly, it sounds like Amber Vinson was more on top of things than the CDC.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  49. Here’s the correct timeline link.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  50. Somewhere in the CDC shinola they said they were monitoring 125-odd contacts of Patient Zero, in particular 50 high-risk contacts.

    Ms. Pham was not among the high-risk persons of interest. Ms. Vinson dealt with his catheters among other needs, one would suppose that was high-risk behavior.

    Now 132 persons of interest on her flight from Cleveland to Dallas are asked to contact the CDC. No word on another sh!tload less serious contacts these ladies may have made.

    You know, in all the confusion, I don’t remember myself all the people being confused and endangered by the CDC. I’ll bet they don’t either.

    gary gulrud (46ca75)

  51. now you’ve listened to my story
    and here’s the point that I have made
    carelessness will give you fever
    be it fahrenheit or centigrade

    I want a sweet sweet CDC job with a fat pension and a helicopter what picks me up whenever we have viral apocalypses

    happyfeet (a785d5)

  52. This report indicates the jet that took Amber Vinson to Emory is an air ambulance, but the real reason to click on the link is to read about clipboard man who stood near Vinson and even entered the plane without wearing any protection.

    Everybody guess: Did he make the flight to Atlanta? Could he be a pilot?

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  53. These people all need to find another line of work. Clearly controlling and preventing disease are presently of no interest to the bureaucracy of the CDC&P.

    From the top of the bureaucracy down to the lowest level employee, these people are idiots and should not be allowed to transport scissors between floors on an elevator, much less advise sick people what to do.

    How many dead Americans is Obama’s target? At this point, no sane person can believe this level if incompetence is accidental.

    WarEagle82 (b18ccf)

  54. Out of an abundance of caution I will make no further comment about this.

    Barack Obama held a press conference today on Ebola after a second nurse came down with the disease in Dallas on Wednesday morning.
    Obama said he kissed and hugged an Ebola nurse.

    “I want to use myself as an example just so people have sense of the science here. I shook hands with, hugged and kissed, not the doctors, but a couple of the nurses at Emory because of the valiant work that they did in treating one of the patients.”

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/10/barack-obama-i-kissed-and-hugged-an-ebola-nurse-video/

    elissa (ec36fd)

  55. “Dana, I don’t think you can restrain interstate travel by American citizens without a court order specific to the person or by imposition of martial law.”

    nk – You might want to check out 42 U.S. Code § 264 – Regulations to control communicable diseases.

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/264

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  56. Obama and clipboard man have a lot in common, elissa.

    More from NBC5 in Dallas about clipboard man. The air ambulance company thinks he is probably one of the air crew.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  57. The good news is we’re learning from past mistakes, because two of the workers loading Vinson on the airplane wore respirators. I hope the air crew doesn’t have to learn the hard way. I’m also offering a prayer for Amber Vinson.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  58. Further, nk, it appears it’s happening:

    “The CDC guidance in this setting outlines the need for controlled movement,” Director Tom Frieden said Wednesday. “That can include a charter plane; that can include a car; but it does not include public transport. We will from this moment forward ensure that no other individual who is being monitored for exposure undergoes travel in any way other than controlled movement.”

    He added that the 75 remaining health care workers who helped treat Duncan at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital would be prohibited from commercial flights.

    Dana (4dbf62)

  59. I think we’re seeing more Texas hospitals taking the initiative in going beyond the CDC protocols. Hospitals are setting up isolation areas, practicing procedures with staff, using bleach to disinfect workers and rooms, and expanding the travel areas that will trigger a closer inquiry. It’s not just West Africa that is raising red flags. One of my community’s hospitals announced today it will ask patients with fevers and flu-like symptoms if they have visited the Dallas area in the past 2 weeks.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  60. Referring to your #5…

    Dana (4dbf62)

  61. This Ebola goat rope reminds me of the BP oil spill in a great many respects.

    The disaster was entirely predictable; so predictable the National Oil and Hazardous Substances Pollution Contingency Plan (NCP) has been on the books for decades. But none of the responsible agencies had fulfilled their assigned responsibilities per the NCP “protocol” because they didn’t think anything like it would actually happen on their watch, so no one was ready. There was the same deer-in-the-headlights response from the Obama administration. They kept issuing statements claiming they were on top of the situation. Yet the main thing they did for weeks was to prevent anyone from taking effective action to deal with the situation.

    The Obama era continues to be like the movie “Groundhog Day.” If Karl Marx or Josef Stalin had written the screenplay.

    Steve57 (4d34f4)

  62. He added that the 75 remaining health care workers who helped treat Duncan at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital would be prohibited from commercial flights.

    But golly no, we’re still not going to restrict people who have been exposed to the ebola from flying into this country.

    Consistency is important.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  63. I think following standard Obama Administration scandal management procedures, the CDC will investigate itself and determine that it has done nothing wrong.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  64. Today I read that part of Australia’s protocols involve what I think is a very sensible precaution: if a person suspects they are becoming symptomatic and have knowingly been exposed (recently been in hot zones, etc) they call an emergency number nationally provided and are told to remain where they are and a highly trained critical care team is then dispatched to go to them and provide transport to a specially designated receiving hospital.

    Dana (4dbf62)

  65. American’s freedoms are negotiable, but don’t mess with Liberia.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  66. It is commonly known that people have a hard time putting together the ideas of low risk and disastrous consequences and decide how to respond

    This also shows the problem with allowing less educated staff make branch-path decisions using a checklist, rather than someone that understands the issues.

    All involved should have a direct line to a doctor directly involved in controlling the outbreak.

    The Boston hospital appeared to have a clue using hazmat decontamination suits,
    the Cleveland Clinic and MetroHealth people seem to have a clue.

    I would be interested if both infected nurses cared for Duncan while he was on a ventilator without wearing respirators, as SarahW pointed out.

    There is no reason for widespread panic, but the way to keep it that way is to aggressively do isolation and quarantine until the outbreak runs itself out,
    and it needed to have begun in West Africa.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  67. “The CDC guidance in this setting outlines the need for controlled movement,” Director Tom Frieden said Wednesday. “That can include a charter plane; that can include a car; but it does not include public transport…”

    Yet on Megyn Kelly this same clown claimed that shutting down public transport, i.e. commercial airline service, from Ebola-stricken West Africa, would make the outbreak worse. Because according to illiberal illogic we couldn’t respond to the Ebola outbreak in those countries because charter flights can’t do what commercial flights can do.

    I can’t do justice to the insanity this guy has been spouting. It would be racist and counterproductive to resort to “controlled movement” when it comes to West Africans who want to enter this country. But it’s just common sense and is in fact in accordance with CDC guidelines when applied to Americans and domestic travel.

    Steve57 (4d34f4)

  68. That makes sense, Dana. The problem we have here is that the folks in charge are the same people who burned to be on Student Council in high school. Sure, there were some good people on student council. But most were, um, not.

    They claimed expertise they didn’t have, never admitted a mistake, and deflected problems onto someone else. Sound familiar.

    Hopefully we will get some grownups in charge. Fingers crossed.

    Simon Jester (52c7e4)

  69. One of my sons informs me he has to go to Dallas for his job this weekend.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  70. Well, Simon, I don’t want to be one of them. Thank you for the correction, daleyrocks and Dana. Back to the privileges and immunities primer for me.

    nk (dbc370)

  71. See the USA in your Chevrolet. Flying? maybe not so much.

    elissa (ec36fd)

  72. MD in Philly,

    I don’t know about the two nurses but this CDC epidemiologist says Texas Presbyterian began using positive-pressure respirators as Duncan’s condition deteriorated.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  73. Common sense says hospital personnel would try to protect themselves since they were the ones at risk.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  74. “I can’t do justice to the insanity this guy has been spouting. It would be racist and counterproductive to resort to “controlled movement” when it comes to West Africans who want to enter this country. But it’s just common sense and is in fact in accordance with CDC guidelines when applied to Americans and domestic travel.”

    Steve57 – Sammy probably understands that.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  75. Well, one would reason that getting put on a respirator counts as deteriorating, whether the respirators were begun before or after is the question. I can certainly see Duncan acutely deteriorating, gets intubated, and then the nurses and docs say, “We better put on respirators” a bit after the fact.
    Details matter.

    The Australians sound like they have a good plan.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  76. getting put on a respirator counts as deteriorating
    that should be ventilator to minimize confusion
    my own being sloppy with technical details

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  77. I agree, Simon Jester. Unfortunately, in this very real life setting, the student council’s hubris and conceit will cause lives to be lost.

    Dana (4dbf62)

  78. The best thing we could do for West Africa is not to let the infection break out, because once it does, everyone is going to worry about their own situations and let Africa deal with their misery on their own.

    Like nk pointed out, when the oxygen masks drop from the ceiling ion the airplane, put your own on first and then help your child.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  79. You know, in certain older civilized cultures, when men failed as entirely as these have, they would throw themselves on their swords.

    Random Firefly quote. First time I sat through a whole Obola presser today. He looked nervous. I like seeing him that way.

    If I were to grope and kiss random nurses at the hospital, they would take me away in handcuffs.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  80. One expects also that the other Frontier passengers did not all go to Dallas. DFW is a giant American Airlines hub and people from that flight disbursed practically everywhere. You could not choose a worse airport to fly into with Ebola, with the possible exception of O’Hare.

    Kevin M (b357ee)

  81. Nk,

    The Department of Homeland Security has authority to bar travelers who pose a public health threat.

    An Obama administration official notes that under federal law — 49 U.S.C. §114(f) and (h) — DHS operates a public health “Do Not Board” list that, based upon CDC recommendations, can be used to prohibit individuals with communicable diseases from boarding commercial aircraft arriving into, departing from, or traveling within the United States, if they meet specific criteria and pose a serious public health threat to travelers.

    The federal code provides for no-fly lists for people “who may be a threat to civil aviation or national security” or “a risk of air piracy or terrorism or a threat to airline or passenger safety.”

    Dana (4dbf62)

  82. I am really at a loss about this whole clusterfark. Everything anyone says is contradicted just a few days — or hours — later. But, we are supposed to trust them.

    Steve57 called it a goat rope. To me, it’s a calf scramble. Same thing, though. Everyone knows the goal, but no one seems to know what they are doing in a very intense manner.

    I would like to say since I live in the Dallas area that local officials are doing a good job, but I can’t. Dallas County Judge Clay Jenkins and Dallas City Mayor Mike Rawlings have proven themselves to be fools. I will give them credit for being public about their buffoonery, though, because the usual suspects are lying low.

    I don’t know if anyone noticed, but shortly after Duncan died, the Rev. Jackson came around to make the claim that racism was the fault. A relative came out to agree shortly.

    Then the first nurse became sick, apparently a competent, educated health-care provider of Vietnamese ancestry. The CDC head then made the claim that protocols were not followed. Soon, the nurses’ union said, hey wait a second, these people were not trained properly.

    And, as soon as they appeared, the race-baiters disappeared in a cloud of smoke.

    Since the victim was African and the second sick nurse is American, how long do you think that “African-American” will disappear in the lexicon for a more precise definition?

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  83. Dana:

    Apparently, the CDC has provided a similar phone number as Australia. Unfortunately, you have to wait four hours to talk with anyone.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  84. 75. “I can’t do justice to the insanity this guy has been spouting. It would be racist and counterproductive to resort to “controlled movement” when it comes to West Africans who want to enter this country. But it’s just common sense and is in fact in accordance with CDC guidelines when applied to Americans and domestic travel.”

    Steve57 – Sammy probably understands that.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/15/2014 @ 8:25 pm

    I’m sure. Maybe he understands this. Via Ace:

    http://minx.cc:1080/?post=352479

    Doctor Frieden: You Can’t Catch Ebola From Some Guy Sitting on the Bus With You. But If You Have Ebola, Stay Off the Bus. Somebody Could Catch It From You.

    This is the same Dr. Frieden who said of Amber Vinson, “She should not have been on that plane.”

    But don’t worry about sitting next to her, American traveling public! He still insists you can not catch Ebola from sitting next to a person who shouldn’t be allowed to be on that plane because … Ebola.

    http://www.blackfive.net/main/2012/10/former-delta-operator-on-the-panetta-doctrine-or-also-known-as-the-dumbest-shit-i-ever-heard.html

    …This is about doctrine, specifically the Obama Administration’s doctrine, and how it doesn’t work in the real world:…

    It’s like these Obama appointees have to win an “out-stupid the other guy to cover for the boss” contest to get the job.

    Steve57 (4d34f4)

  85. To steal from Glenn:
    We have Top Men working on this.
    Top Men.

    SPQR (c4e119)

  86. I am with you, Ag80 @83. I honestly did not believe there was another notch left on my personal cynicism meter. But the last few days of this clusterfark have proved me wrong.

    And yes, it’s almost as if the race baiters have gotten a message from someone “higher” to, you know, stfu this time.

    elissa (fb17ae)

  87. 72-elissa
    I am driving out to Mn. to my farm and then to Co.to see my daughter.
    I can not convince my wife not to fly.
    I have not been in the silver crow for years, as I hate breathing used air.
    My chevrolet will be in use seeing the U.S.A.

    mg (31009b)

  88. A light meter would tell you to use a higher f-stop and a slower shutter speed on Amber Vinson too.

    nk (dbc370)

  89. “They followed the protocols, they knew what they were doing…”

    – President Brarack Obama, admitting on October 15, 2014, that healthcare workers have a “leg up” on him.

    Colonel Haiku (0b084b)

  90. Vinson is a nurse. Couldn’t she have figured this one out on her own without calling the CDD?

    Denver Todd (fe903f)

  91. First off, we need the name of the low level CDC grunt that answered the phone. that person should be brought up on multiple charges of reckless endangerment, as should Vinson. She was a nurse, acute care nurse in fact, one of the best and brightest. She KNEW she had been exposed, and knew that she was febrile with a fever and KNEW that she was very possibly beginning to develop ebola symptoms. but yet she still chose to fly anyway. There is nothing that pisses me off more than Dumbasses, especially those who should know better. after we hang a few of these bastards from lampposts maybe they will take the whole thing just a bit more seriously.

    Rorschach (61bf43)

  92. And if anyone who was exposed as a result of this clusterf^ck, those people need to be charged with manslaughter.

    Rorschach (61bf43)

  93. I meant if anyone who was exposed DIES… then the CDC grunt should be charged with manslaughter.

    Rorschach (61bf43)

  94. this is the caliber of our betters, who went all ‘Seinfeld’ this week:

    http://newsbusters.org/people-organizations/dr-nancy-snyderman

    narciso (ee1f88)

  95. A news reporter takes an accounting:

    http://sharylattkisson.com/ebolas-u-s-spread-whats-going-wrong

    I repeat, POTUS should be indicted, tried, convicted and executed, in no particular order.

    Beheading would be fitting.

    gary gulrud (46ca75)

  96. Where is the clamor for flight restrictions, eh, GOP?

    A wacko bird or two does not constitute conclusive deliberation resolving in consensus.

    gary gulrud (46ca75)

  97. I do not ordinarily watch The O’Reilly Factor, but had it on last night. They played excerpts of the CDC director’s explanation of why the three West African countries in question were not under a commercial aviation quarantine. The CDC director was barely coherent. It’s a reasonable wager that he was never told the rationale for the policy because the policy is a function of the stupidities and shticks of his superiors which cannot be publicly acknowledged.

    John Kerry was suggested as a source of some of this. Consider that Barack Obama, John Kerry, and Jeh Johnson (the Secretary of Homeland Security) are all lawyers who were placed atop large public bureaucracies having had no executive experience whatsoever. Kerry and Obama had superintended campaign staffs, but the candidate can get by with being on-air talent and a campaign staff is an evanescent thing devoted only to the welfare of the candidate; it has no abiding mission. The legal careers of Obama and Kerry are completely unremarkable and Johnson’s one might wager was fueled by political connections and patronage.

    The Secretary of Health and Human Services (the CDC director’s boss) has spent most of her career as a foundation executive (i.e. cutting checks to projects appealing to a certain bourgeois type) and much of the remainder as a flunky (Chief of Staff to this or that big pine cone). This was leavened with one year as Obama’s budget director (and we can guess how much critical engagement she manifested with agency wish lists). Her background suggests she’s generically intelligent (high class degrees and a two-year stint at McKinsey), but none of her schooling has a vocational dimension and it appears to have veered away from disciplines which make liberal use of statistics or experimental method.

    In short, we’re stuck with four people who’ve lived in haut bourgeois bubbles since they got out of school (or, in Kerry’s case, his whole life bar his military service) and have little or no background in or aptitude for institutional leadership, emergency response, or public health. You can see the results.

    Art Deco (ee8de5)

  98. Nina Pham, the first Dallas nurse to be infected with ebola, is being moved to the National Institutes of Health (NIH) biocontainment facility in Maryland. It appears she is still in good condition, so this suggests a change in strategy in which ebola victims will be moved to specialized care. Good.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  99. I’ve been to the NIH hospital. It’s a good place, and it and its staff will benefit from learning to handle an ebola patient.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  100. Today, Dallas officials will consider putting exposed Texas Presbyterian hospital health care workers in shelters while they wait to see if they are infected. The hospital says the workers can stay at the hospital if they want.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  101. When the CDC approved Vinson’s air travel while she had a low-grade fever, were they aware that she had recently nursed the Ebola patient who died? Or were they led to believe that she was just an ordinary traveler with an inquiry about the safety of flying with a low-grade fever?

    Does the CDC keep a record of the identities of all the care-takers of Ebola patients?

    b9 trooth (7ddd4a)

  102. The CDC knew about Vinson’s exposure to ebola. In fact, she was self-monitoring and reporting to the CDC:

    Before the Monday flight, Vinson, who had been self-monitoring and was reporting her temperature to epidemiology teams routinely, had called someone at the CDC to report that she had an elevated temperature of 99.5, the spokesperson said.

    Vinson was then considered in the category of “uncertain risk”, which is a lower level, because it was believed that she had all worn all the necessary personal protective equipment while treating Duncan. This even though fellow Dallas nurse Nina Pham had been diagnosed with Ebola on Saturday. Oct. 11.

    When Vinson called in to the CDC, the staffer she talked with looked on the agency’s website for guidance, the spokesperson said. The category for “uncertain risk” had guidance saying that a person could fly commercially if they did not meet the threshold of a temperature of 100.4.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  103. I think the hospital in Dallas has enough on its hands trying to deal with the aftermath even without any currently infected patients being treated.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  104. Yes, it does have enough to do, especially with a nursing mutiny on its hands. But I hope that’s not the only reason the CDC and the hospital are moving patients. I hope this is part of a new approach to ebola.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  105. The latest clarification regarding the CDC’s approval for Amber Vinson to travel:

    New information emerged today about Vinson’s actions before she boarded a commercial plane from Cleveland to Dallas the day before she was diagnosed with Ebola.

    Vinson did not directly call federal health officials for permission to board a passenger flight Monday, instead talking to a team of Texas health officials who relayed her symptoms to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, her uncle told ABC News.

    “They called Amber back and told her, ‘The CDC is OK with it. You can travel,’” Lawrence Vinson said today.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  106. They cleared her to fly because she wasn’t under quarantine.

    Then they decided that was a mistake, because, in case she had ebola, which it turned out she did, it would be a lot of work to follow up her contacts. If not impossible.

    The CDC by the way, had not counted any of the hospital workers as contacts of Duncan. They were only interested in contacts of Duncan from before he went into the hospital. Presumbably, once he was there, he could not infect anyone else.

    Because…it’s a hospital, isn’t it?

    That wouldn’t happen in an ideal hospital.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2bb62)

  107. More accurately:

    Doctor Frieden: You Can’t Catch Ebola From Some Guy Sitting on the Bus With You. But If You might Have Ebola, even if it’s a long shot Stay Off the Bus. Somebody Could Catch It From You.

    Is this absurd?

    No, it isn’t.

    The thing maybe is like this: If you start to develop really bad symptoms, like vomiting, you might be able to give it to someone sitting next to you on the bus, or someone who will sit next to that later. Not that the risk is high – but it’s high enough for the CDC to want to follow-up on general principles..

    But if you are on a bus and the person sitting next to you on the bus doesn’t look at all sick, and isn’t spitting or vomiting or bleeding or anything, there should be next to no risk even if they did get infected with ebola. And next to no chance even if that person does fit that profile, because it is almost certainly something else.

    And if someone hasn’t had symptoms of ebola till they got on the bus, they probably won’t become infectious till some time after the trip is over. But somebody who has it just might start the trip too late.

    The point is like this: They’re not going to quarantine, voluntarily or not, every person who has been in some contact with a person who got ebola because the chances they got ebola are pretty pretty small. And in the case of the Dallas health care workers, they just didn’t consider them at risk at all.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2bb62)


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