Patterico's Pontifications

9/16/2014

3,000 Troops To Liberia

Filed under: General — Dana @ 9:12 pm



[guest post by Dana]

While the president has repeatedly stated there would be no ground troops sent to fight the threat that is ISIS, he did announce that he will be sending 3,000 troops to Liberia to lead the way in the fight against Ebola:

‘U.S. Africa Command will set up a Joint Force Command headquartered in Monrovia, Liberia, to provide regional command and control support to U.S. military activities and facilitate coordination with U.S. government and international relief efforts,’ a statement from the White House press office said.

‘A general from U.S. Army Africa, the Army component of U.S. Africa Command (AFRICOM), will lead this effort, which will involve an estimated 3,000 U.S. forces.’

However, it should be noted: AFRICOM already warns its own personnel that they should ‘avoid nonessential travel to Sierra Leone, Guinea, and Liberia.’

Further:

And the Defense Department is concerned, one Pentagon official told MailOnline, about the public perceptions aroused when American G.I.s patrol ground zero in a disease outbreak that could plunge three or more countries into chaos if it worsens significantly.

Combat soldiers and Marines ‘will be on hand and ready for anything,’ said the official, who has knowledge of some, but not all, of the Ebola-related planning. ‘But hopefully it will be all logistics and hospital-building.’

‘The president has ordered us to help, and we’re eager to do it,’ he said. ‘Now it looks like we’re going to be the lead dog, and that’s bound to make a lot of people nervous. It’s understandable.’

‘But no one wants U.S. personnel enforcing someone else’s martial law if things go south and the entire region is at risk.’

Commenter ThOR aptly expresses my concerns:

I am far more concerned about the military deployment to ground zero in the Ebola epidemic than a deployment against ISIS. Our troops have the tools and the training to wage war; they’ll be sitting ducks in West Africa. The proposed deployment to West Africa speaks volumes about President Obama’s disregard for the safety of our servicemen and women. Also, if there is a pathway by which Ebola makes its presence felt here at home, the conduit could easily be our returning Ebola-fighters.

There is no mention of specific precautions and barrier methods that will be in place to keep our troops well protected from this virulent and unusually contagious strain of Ebola.

–Dana

79 Responses to “3,000 Troops To Liberia”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (4dbf62)

  2. Join the military.
    Travel to countries where we are hated.
    Build hospitals, but be accused of trying to foster imperialism.
    Be exposed to exotic diseases.

    JVW (638245)

  3. people who’ve enlisted in the past 5/6 years had all the information they could have needed to be exceedingly well informed they’d opted to join a crackpot enterprise what was in the service of an irredeemably inept george soros handpuppet

    they chose poorly

    as far as the ebola goes the silver lining is that China is Africa’s number one trade partner

    so they have a lot of investment to protect

    and unlike America they have a record of competence

    happyfeet (a785d5)

  4. And yes, I know the U.S. has a historic tie to Liberia, which was founded by freed American slaves.

    JVW (638245)

  5. I don’t think this means 3,000 U.S. troops stationed in Liberia. Thhis is a logistics missions.

    There is no mention of specific precautions and barrier methods that will be provided to keep our troops well protected from this virulent and unusually contagious strain of Ebola

    Just avoid contact with the local population.

    If they wanted to do more, they could give every soldier 250,000 units of vitamin A, unless medically conterindicated, and if so, don’t send that person to Liberia. There’s a vaccine coming up, too, although I think it’s against the other strain.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  6. Combat soldiers and Marines ‘will be on hand and ready for anything,’ said the official, who has knowledge of some, but not all, of the Ebola-related planning. ‘But hopefully it will be all logistics and hospital-building.’

    I emphasized this because it’s a bit troubling – if not logistics and hospital building, then what???

    Dana (4dbf62)

  7. Ellen rocks

    that’s gonna be the takeaway from this ebola adventure

    Ellen is the sh!t

    I’m talking lifetime movie

    I’m talking postage stamp

    I’m talking about recalling food stamp’s peace prize like it was a GM corvette and giving it to someone who deserves it

    happyfeet (a785d5)

  8. I thought you said you didn’t like Ellen Mr. Feets.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  9. Obama invades Africa for WMD!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  10. i’m talking about Ellen Sirleaf not just-keep-swimming Ellen

    they’re very different for now

    after Lifetime gets ahold of the Sirleaf one and an agent gets involved all bets are off

    happyfeet (a785d5)

  11. Combat soldiers and Marines ‘will be on hand and ready for anything,’ said the official, who has knowledge of some, but not all, of the Ebola-related planning. ‘But hopefully it will be all logistics and hospital-building

    you can be ready for anything, but if your ROE won’t allow you to respond appropriately, you’re FUBAR.

    either that, or you do what is necessary, then the people that wrote the ROE, and who weren’t
    there, court martial your azz and send you to Kansas for a few decades.

    great choices we give the troops.

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  12. Obama invades Africa for WMD!

    Oh God, how long before we hear that we are in Liberia because Haliburton and the Koch Brothers are trying to find a strain of Ebola suitable for a biological weapon which they will use to attack Iran on behalf of Israel?

    JVW (638245)

  13. Ellen Sirleaf Johnson literally (not figuratively) rocks ANY conceivable fabric/color/fashion permutation in the whole entire galaxy

    the singularity is nigh

    happyfeet (a785d5)

  14. Just avoid contact with the local population.

    Sammy, medical personnel have also been known to be infected…

    Dana (4dbf62)

  15. her majesty makes kate middleton look like a whiny set of famished hipbones

    happyfeet (a785d5)

  16. Just scan that list of West Wing rocket-scientists who will be writing those ROE’s, and you know it will be SNAFU at best, FUBAR most likely.

    askeptic (efcf22)

  17. What happens when everyone knows will happen? This is all noble and all, but fighting a war against humans is a bit easier for soldiers than fighting a war against a virus.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  18. Dana (4dbf62) — 9/16/2014 @ 9:34 pm

    medical personnel have also been known to be infected…

    They had lots of contact with the local population. In particular people taking care of sick people and people who came to clinics.

    This ZMapp by the way, looks like a medical Solyndra.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  19. pandemics burn themselves out

    always

    and hopefully what happens is in their wake they leave resistant genes

    resistant genes what are so horny they could get busy in broad daylight on a well-trafficked Studio City street

    these are the days of gold

    happyfeet (a785d5)

  20. Just avoid contact with the local population.

    If they wanted to do more, they could give every soldier 250,000 units of vitamin A, unless medically conterindicated, and if so, don’t send that person to Liberia. There’s a vaccine coming up, too, although I think it’s against the other strain.

    Sammy, i’ve never thought very highly of you, and with what i felt were good reasons, but this is beyond stupid, even for you.

    1. the best way to avoid contact with the local population is to not go there. once there, the troops HAVE to interact with the local population and the local environment. since we know so little about Ebola, other than it kills people very effectively, the only smart course of action is to quarantine the AO and stay the hell out of it. anything else is stupid, even if the troops were to be in MOPP4 the whole time they’re deployed, which isn’t realistic or even, based on personal experience with life in MOPP4, even possible.

    2.WTF is Vitamin A supposed to do? also, since the virus mutates, any vaccine is a crap shoot at best. there is no treatment for this disease, or, last time i looked, any other viral disease. there are treatments that reduce the length of infection, or prevent them from happening, but there are no cures that i am aware of for ANY viral disease, from cold sores to shingles to Ebola.

    your post is beyond idiotic, even by your low standards. if you’re going to opine on infectious diseases and troop deployments, either educate yourself, or enlist and volunteer for the deployment.

    until then, just STFU on the subject.

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  21. pandemics burn themselves out

    always

    they burn out faster when you strictly quarantine the area of the infection…

    instead, we are actively transporting virus reservoirs and potential virus reservoirs all over the planet.

    this will likely NOT end well if we don’t stop the morons now.

    (we won’t)

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  22. what possible political advantage inheres in this “strictly quarantine the area of the infection” idea?

    barack obama gave up a choice tee time for this ebola thing Mr. red

    who are you to second-guess him?

    happyfeet (a785d5)

  23. New York Daily News

    Joan Rivers’ doctor snapped selfie during throat surgery: report

    please god let the chinesers save us from the ebola

    I promise I’ll stop doing that thing

    happyfeet (a785d5)

  24. Our military actually has vast experience as a last-resort/worst-disaster responder worldwide. Smarts, organization, experience with logistics — these are things our military are very good at (in addition of course to combat). This is not like the Somalia intervention, but more like tsunami relief. It’s appropriate; Congress will cooperate with the White House on this.

    It ought be de-politicized. Of course the Obama Administration will nevertheless try to make political hay with it and, more urgently, use it as a distraction from things they’d less rather discuss.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  25. it’s small-bore and showy, this quintessentially day late dollar short American effort

    and almost conspicuously not even remotely adequate to the problem, which has been described by certain math-illiterate United Nations personages as one that is growing “exponentially”

    go big or go home is what that alaska lady says about conflict and stuff

    and I bet if we explained to her about the ebola she’d say the exact same emphatically with respect to this situation

    happyfeet (a785d5)

  26. redc1c4 (abd49e) — 9/16/2014 @ 9:44 pm

    since we know so little about Ebola, other than it kills people very effectively

    It doesn’t.

    That’s only if the disease gets beyond a certain point, but it doesn’t always. It’s got the same kind of problem anthrax has – it suddenly becomes much more dangerous once the number of cells infected reaches a certain point.

    It is not always so fatal.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/06/health/ebola-immunity.html?_r=0

    But in 2010, Dr. Leroy led such a study in Gabon, a Central African country that had four Ebola outbreaks from 1994 to 2002.

    His teams took 4,349 blood samples in 220 randomly selected villages. They found that 15 percent of Gabon’s population had antibodies. But it varied widely: near the coast, only 3 percent did; in some jungle villages near the Congo border, up to 34 percent did.

    Also, their antibody levels varied widely, and what level is protective is roughly known for lab monkeys, but not for humans.

    Stupid idiots! If you know the effective immuniy levek for one disease for monkeys and for human beings, you can estimate it to ahigh degree of certainty for other disease. Probably the protective value, of course, depends onthe strength of the new exposure, but you could definitely name a level that is almost always high enough.

    I really don’t like such nonsense – that they can’t tell. This kind of caution has no place with re: this epidemic. It will kill people.

    There were people in a hospital in Sierra Leone hospital who were originally thought to have Lassa fever but did not. Nearly 9 percent had Ebola antibodies.

    The article further says:

    Victims have relatives who never get sick. At the funeral of a traditional healer where 14 women became infected, at least 26 other mourners did not, Dr. Garry said, even though most probably touched the body.

    There is firm evidence for silent infections.

    In 2000, Dr. Leroy’s team studied 24 Gabonese who had tended victims without ever falling ill. Eleven had not just antibodies but remnants of virus and markers of inflammation in their blood — meaning they had clearly been infected but had defeated the virus on their own.

    A similar 1999 study by American scientists in the Democratic Republic of Congo found similar results in five of 152 household contacts.

    The antibodies proved they had been exposed.

    No, it does not really have an 80% or so mortality rate.

    It could be that what happened is that some people got exposed to very few virus particles in a way that acted like a vaccine. People used to do that on purpose with smallpox, in the 18th centiry, before Jenner.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  27. 2.WTF is Vitamin A supposed to do?

    Help people fight the virus. Statistics prove a lot of people beat back the oinfection, often without symptoms.

    How could it be otherwise, with a long incubation period?

    Now:

    Vitamin A supplementation in infectious diseases: a meta-analysis.

    And:

    Effects of Vitamin A Supplementation on Immune Responses and Correlation with Clinical Outcomes

    Vitamin A supplementation to preschool children is known to decrease the risks of mortality and morbidity from some forms of diarrhea, measles, human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) infection, and malaria. These effects are likely to be the result of the actions of vitamin A on immunity.

    Now, they talk about, or like to say, we’re dealing with a Vitamin A deficeincy, or maybe this is for children, but I don’t think they actually determined a deficiency, and it stands to reason that a higher than average level of Vitamin A, which is what they give, can help the body do its best. There is probably an optimal level, which is much higher when exposed to pathogens.

    And the only thing this has to do with children is that you can quantify results since they get a lot of infections in places because of a sanitation problems, which exposes them to more pathogens, not an unusual nutritional deficiency compared with people living in the United states..

    Now, when I say Vitamin A, I mean Vitamin A, and nor beta carotene.

    And there are other vitamins that help to. Probably 2 mg of folic avid twice a day. A knowledgabke doctor could make better suggestions than me. Maybe calcium too. Vitamin C. Zinc. And avoid some things too.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  28. No. No. No.
    It is nothing like tsunami relief; it is everything like Somalia.

    We don’t send in the troops in the middle of a tsunami, but wait until the damage is done. In tsunami relief, our troops come ashore only when the seas have calmed. We do not put their lives on the line in any meaningful way. Somalia was (and is) a grizzly mess. Our troops were in harms way and we paid the price. Similarly, in Liberia our troops will be in harms way every day their boots are on the ground. The death toll in Somalia was minimal compared to what it might be in the grizzly mess that is West Africa.

    We struggled to build nations in Iraq and Afghanistan – a task poorly suited to our military’s mission – and we paid dearly in blood and silver. Our military is even less well suited to the mission in Liberia. The potential for the loss of American life is enormous. We should have no illusions about that.

    ThOR (130453)

  29. also, since the virus mutates, any vaccine is a crap shoot at best. there is no treatment for this disease,

    Depends on whether the vaccine targets something that cannot mutate without reducing the virulence of the disease.

    but there are no cures that i am aware of for ANY viral disease, from cold sores to shingles to Ebola.

    Antibodies, of course, confer passive immunity, and that’s a pretty good cure (and it is
    an eminently recoverable disease provided someone can survive the dangerous period) and it, can be gotten via blood transfusions (of plasma actually, yes right) although this is a primitive approach.

    ZMapp is nothing but a Rube Goldberg method of producing antibodies using tobacco plants infected with a specially designed virus (which doesn’t get the anti-genetically modified food people upset like genetically engineering tobacco would) and it works.

    Statins would probably also greatly reduce mortality, plus the kind of palliative care
    that they can’t do now in Africa, watching electrolytes and so on like that, the way they do woth cholera now.

    Also, nobody over 35 should be sent to the disease zone, and the age of people with great physical contact should be 17-20, and they should use people who have become immune as much as possible, and there are a lot of them, if only they tested.

    Oh, and Elizabeth Holmes should be asked to develop a 1-minute or so finger pinprick test,. Taht should take about a week, if someone is serious, and that should be mass produced an rushed to Africa.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  30. As always, I like Ted Cruz’ take: they’re soldiers, not social workers.

    ThOR (130453)

  31. Bubba, in Haiti, turned them into Meals on Wheels.

    askeptic (efcf22)

  32. The UN troops brought into Haiti (from Nepal) brought cholera with them.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  33. Sammy Finkelman #29 – whatever you do, don’t tell Hepatitis A or B that “there are no cures that i am aware of for ANY viral disease” … or smallpox …

    If any of ’em find out that someone still believes that they cannot be cured, they will rise from their demise and spread exponentially !

    Alastor (2e7f9f)

  34. Sammy – Can they treat the TB with Vitamin A?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  35. Alastor (2e7f9f) — 9/16/2014 @ 11:47 pm

    whatever you do, don’t tell Hepatitis A or B that “there are no cures that i am aware of for ANY viral disease”

    Oh, yes they just reached an agreement to allow generic drug companies to produce it for amuch lower cost and sell it only in some poorer countries.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/16/business/international/maker-of-hepatitis-c-drug-strikes-deal-on-generics-for-poor-countries.html

    This is a cure, not a vaccine.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/07/business/fda-approves-pill-to-treat-hepatitis-c.html

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/16/opinion/sunday/how-much-should-hepatitis-c-treatment-cost.html

    – or smallpox …

    I don;t know about smallpox, but they developed a treatment for rabies (besides immunimizing someone after a bite, like Louis Pasteur did)

    They only have to put someone into a coma until the critical period passes. Or something close to that.

    http://www.nature.com/scitable/blog/viruses101/is_rabies_really_100_fatal

    Luckily for Jeanna, his readings inspired a radical new idea to take hold in his mind. He determined that Rabies neither kills by “destroying neurons or causing inflammation in the brain,” but instead, causes excitotoxicity, which overstimulates the brain and causes the cells to die. Dr. Willoughby also concluded that the human immune system can fight off the virus if given enough time before Rabies reaches the person´s brain. Jeanna’s survival was a matter of time; her brain had to be protected before Rabies infiltrated it. Dr. Willoughby assembled a team of experts to discuss his theorized treatment plan, which later became known as the Milwaukee Protocol. To save Jeanna´s brain and allow time for her immune system to work, the protocol called for her to be put into a coma. The idea of inducing a coma left doctors wrestling with the possible side effects. Even if they did save her life would Jeanna be left severely disabled once she woke up? The difficult decision was left to her parents who agreed to proceed with the never-before tested protocol.

    Doctors administered a variety of drugs to Jeanna: ketamine to ward off Rabies and protect her brain, midazolam to “complement” ketamine and lessen its tendency to cause hallucinations, and two antiviral medicines named ribavirin and amantadine. Six days after first receiving the concoction of drugs, a spinal tap revealed that Jeanna’s body was producing rabies antibodies – a good sign of her body´s recovery! After Jeanna was taken out of her coma she was placed in rehabilitation to relearn how to talk, stand, walk etc. Today, despite her doctors’ previous worries, Jeanna is “pretty much normal,” according to Dr. Willoughby, and recently graduated from college. Lasting side effects from her battle with rabies includes trouble with running and balance, and speaking more slowly than before becoming infected.

    The success rate actually isn’t all that great with this treatment, and she may have received a low dose.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  36. daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/16/2014 @ 11:56 pm

    Can they treat the TB with Vitamin A?

    TB is usually along term problem.

    I suppose Vitamin A is one of the things that could help the body fight the infection. Mpst cases anyway become latent.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  37. Honest to goodness, I would refuse those orders. Zero trust in leadership and absolutely no defined mission. Put my butt in the brig, if you must.

    Ed from SFV (3400a5)

  38. The soldiers should tell sfb to f-off.
    The republicans are well on their way to not capturing the senate. The republicans have no one to stand up and speak the conservative facts of life.
    idiots squared.

    mg (31009b)

  39. biden/goodell 2016

    mg (31009b)

  40. 37. Honest to goodness, I would refuse those orders. Zero trust in leadership and absolutely no defined mission. Put my butt in the brig, if you must.

    Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/17/2014 @ 2:25 am

    Yeah, Ebola isn’t the only epidemic in the world. You may not have heard of the one raging through the fleet.

    http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=55126

    AW1Ed sends a link to the Military Times in which we learn that for some odd reason, sailors don’t trust the navy to act in their interests anymore;

    Respondents also had a problem with ongoing discussions to reduce sailor pay and benefits, the survey found. As many as 80 percent rank the current retirement system and 74 percent rank pay and compensation as two of the most important reasons to remain in uniform.

    …What was striking to survey officials was how few sailors strived to earn more senior positions in the Navy. Nearly 50 percent of survey respondents said they did not want their boss’ job.

    “The comments indicate an increasing belief that positions of senior leadership, specifically operational command, is less desirable because of increasing risk aversion, high administrative burden and, in some cases, a pay inversion where commanding officers are paid up to 10-percent less than the mid-career officers they lead,” the survey states.

    This goes hand in glove with a recent Pentagon report that Sailors can’t wait to get out because they’re sick and tired of the constant PC indoctrination. Which puts the lie to that theoretic survey the Pentagon claims proved the troops were totally cool with gays in the military. Want to know how they arrived at that conclusion? Like this:

    http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=55141

    I just finished the Military Compensation and Retirement Modernization Commission‘s survey that they sent out to some of us, and it was a real POS, I can still smell it on my fingers. I was limited in my responses to support lowered retirement pay and guided towards a Thrift Savings Plan-type retirement. No matter how carefully I answered the questions, it didn’t stop the summary from arriving at the conclusion that I supported lower compensation for 20 years of service and increased premiums and co-pays for Tricare.

    I feel so dirty to have participated in that piece of Soviet-style propaganda that will be used against the troops. The only reason I took it is because I thought maybe it would send a message – instead I was the one getting a message. These peckerwoods at the MCRMC are bound and determined to change the retirement system and their dishonest survey questions and limited responses available is just ammunition for them to plow ahead.

    They’re good at Potemkin surveys.

    I don’t want to turn this into a gays-in-the-military debate, though. Instead, let’s talk women in combat.

    http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=55168&cpage=1#comment-1794774

    Hondo sends us a link to the Army Times which announces that the Army is offering Ranger School slots to female soldiers while doing their research for allowing females to serve in combat units in combat positions;

    And what does their “research” consist of? Skewing the results to fully support their masters’ foregone conclusions. How do I know this, boys and girls? This:

    Second, female soldiers can volunteer to serve as observers and advisors to the Airborne and Ranger Training Brigade. These slots are open to staff sergeants through master sergeants, chief warrant officers 2 and 3, and first lieutenants through majors.

    These volunteers will not be Ranger instructors, and they won’t evaluate students in the course.

    Of course they won’t be there to evaluate the students. The sisterhood will be there to be the union shop stewards for the chicks who are to pass Ranger school, no matter what. And to evaluate the instructors.

    The Army has learned its lessons. No women have passed the Marine Infantry Officer’s Course. They’re not going to let that happen to the service led by a COS whose first reaction to the Fort Hood massacre was to worry about his precious diversity programs.

    The Army doesn’t want to repeat the Navy’s experience with putting women into carrier aircraft. When instructors didn’t quite get the word they were supposed to pass the women regardless of performance. So the instructors actually gave the women enough downs on training flights that, had they been men, they’d have washed out of the program.

    Which came to light when people leaked the paper trail that showed the chain of command from CNO down to the CO of the FRS had thrown out the standards in order to get these women into the cockpit.

    When the COS of the Army and Sergeant Major of the Army micromanage this farce, there will be no paper trail to contradict them. The instructors at Ranger school will not produce a contradictory paper trail. The female observers are there to keep them dishonest.

    Steve57 (e9e6e7)

  41. I guess the epidemic is sweeping through every branch of the service, not just the Navy.

    Steve57 (e9e6e7)

  42. What could possibly go wrong?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  43. First you get the nausea
    Then you got teh diarrhea
    No, I wouldn’t wanna be ya
    Yer doin’ the Ebola Shuffle
    Then ya cough with chest pain
    And yer bleedin’ from yer drain
    Good news! no weight gain!
    Dancin’ to the Ebola Shuffle
    Raised rash an’ red eyes
    Ride teh toilet if yer wise
    Oh, joy! smaller pants size!
    Struttin’ to the Ebola Shuffle

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  44. Sammy, as I said once before, you know more than me about a lot of things, but your interpretation of bits of information about medicine is often misled and misleading (even when you do know specific facts which are true). From past experience, I will not try to give you feedback.
    If anyone wishes me to address something Sammy brings up, will be glad to try.

    I think it is a denial of being a responsible human being to ignore the Ebola situation, but I too am worried about getting involved with out military. As one person said above, US troops enforcing martial law in Liberia would be difficult for our own troops and potentially disastrous for our political standing in the world. But after years of civil war I don’t know if Liberia can do it themselves, and I believe the history of African troops in neutral assignments is pretty poor.

    I imagine if US troops are limited to their own compounds to build hospital facilities, etc. and then turn them over, without direct interaction, would be a good use of our capabilities.

    For you military folks, do they ever ask for volunteers for dangerous missions? I don’t think an assignment to build hospital facilities is necessarily dangerous, but even keeping security for such a place would be difficult, as one would not want to come into direct contact with anyone trying to entire an area without approval. (“All trespassers will be shot”?)
    As far as US medical personnel involvement, would they ask for volunteers rather than order people into it?

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  45. Beneath teh Ebola Sun
    I got to be the one
    For you

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  46. Upon a savage lake
    Make no mistake… I love you
    I got a shaky-jake leg
    And my pants’re all pooped… for you

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  47. 44. …For you military folks, do they ever ask for volunteers for dangerous missions?

    MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/17/2014 @ 5:20 am

    Sort of.

    I don’t know how dangerous it would have been, it would have been a miserable drag, but during Desert Storm 1 the Navy put out a call for various commands to pony up a certain number of intel officers each to go to Iraq and interrogate EPWs. They were taking volunteers first. I found out about this when the Air Wing intel officer called me into his office and told me they were on the hook to send one guy. Then he started running down the list of why he couldn’t send guys from the other sqauadrons. Soon, my squadron was the only one left. Since we were an F-14 TARPS sqaudron we had two intel officers, and he wasn’t going to send the other guy because he was married, so…

    “So what you’re telling me is I’m volunteering,” I sez to the guy. “Yes,” he sez, “You’re volunteering.”

    I ended up not going to Iraq for some reason (all that money on the rubber hoses and cattle prods wasted; I was trying to get in the spirit of the thing). But since I had so enthusiastically volunteered once, when the Air Wing had to send a guy down to Panama to do counter-narcotics I was their guy.

    When I was recalled after 9/11 I was sent to Japan. And one day PACFLT put out a call for a volunteer intel officer to be an adviser to the Filipino Navy and Marines. If you recall back in those days we had sent SOF down to Mindanao to help fight the Moros. They wanted an O-3/O-4 with X amount of fleet experience, who was a qualified instructor and had curriculum development experience.

    I was the right paygrade, I had the fleet experience, and I had done a tour as an instructor at the fleet intelligence training center. Plus I had been to the Philippines back when we still had Cubi Pt/Subic Bay. I was perfect for the job, plus I figured I was less likely to get killed because I already knew I couldn’t trust anybody, so I volunteered. The COS sent word back that I was NOT to volunteer for anything. I was a recalled reservist, and if they let me go big Navy would take that as meaning they really didn’t have any pressing need for reserve augmentation.

    Those were my brushes with greatness; the war stories that almost were. After that I just reminded myself that NAVY stands for Never Again Volunteer Yourself and contented myself with watching the war on TV in bars in Yokohama until they sent me home.

    They do ask for volunteers sometimes, but it seems that when they do they already have somebody in mind.

    Steve57 (e9e6e7)

  48. Yeah.

    HOPEFULLY

    Just the word I want to hear uttered by some Pentagon Official.

    Plans aren’t made with HOPEFULLY in mind.

    Dumbasses.

    jakee308 (ba1e65)

  49. Someone needs to make a script that can remove the inconsequential

    and usually off thread and distracting comments of “happyfeet”.

    The blog would be reduced by half and make much more sense.

    jakee308 (ba1e65)

  50. jake308- there is such a thing (at least there was before site upgrades) that you could use individually to block people who you did not want to see. I never used it so I can’t tell you any more. Maybe someone else seeing this knows what I’m talking about and can give you details.
    Otherwise, our kind host prefers to allow maximum freedom for people to say whatever they want, banning people only for the most extreme behavior. I do believe there was one time when Patterico himself thought happyfeet went over the top and told him in no uncertain terms he had gone too far, but I don’t remember the details.
    Otherwise, there are many of us who often agree with your sentiments.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  51. > US troops enforcing martial law in Liberia would be difficult for our own troops and potentially disastrous for our political standing in the world.

    It seems like this is the ideal situation for the UN to be responsible – even if they subcontract it out to us, doing it under their aegis and flying their flag carries much less political risk.

    aphrael (001863)

  52. Steve57, thanks for the info. I do assume that when someone joins a special ops outfit it is considered a volunteer for especially dangerous missions as a standing offer.

    As I think about it, from what I have read, it is thought that all of the US workers that contracted Ebola did so from daily interaction with people not felt to have had the virus. So, to some degree, having US troops set up facilities, etc., and making no contact with the locals they should be fine. And folks working in known Ebola quarantine should be relatively safe as well. It is the everyday contact with the average person, something that the medical missions folk would do, that puts them at risk.

    Crowd control would likely be the most hazardous duty, requiring drastic measures to keep troops safe (tazer anyone first, ask questions later?).

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  53. aphrael, in one way I agree with you, but I’m not sure the UN has succeeded in any troop deployment since Korea, which was largely US as I understand it (I could be wrong, wasn’t alive then, didn’t read much about it).
    Theoretically under their flag may carry less risk, but everyone could/would quickly say, “It’s those Americans.”
    Heck, our own Sec. of State is well know for slandering US military.
    Of course, we will also be ridiculed if we do nothing.
    A reminder that sometimes one needs to do what they think is right and not worry about what other folks say.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  54. 51.

    “The Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire / And the burnt Fool’s bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire.”

    http://weaselzippers.us/199886-pic-of-the-day-barack-obama-and-bill-ayers-together/

    At this late date there is nothing to be accomplished except sound bites and photo ops.

    gary gulrud (46ca75)

  55. 40. We are out of peaceable options.

    gary gulrud (46ca75)

  56. 5. Vitamin A is poisonous to Homo in large quantities.

    gary gulrud (46ca75)

  57. This goes hand in glove with a recent Pentagon report that Sailors can’t wait to get out because they’re sick and tired of the constant PC indoctrination

    I wonder how the liberalism that is corrupting every facet of US society in general is affecting the capabilities and morale of US military forces in particular? I wonder if a combination of Eurosclerosis transplanted across the Atlantic and banana-republic Third-World-itis carried northward is making us more and more like the notorious French or some other form of exhausted, amoral nation.

    That may point out the ultimate contagion, far more than anything pertaining to the Ebola microbe.

    Mark (c160ec)

  58. 38. Fleet Farm had a sale so I doubled my cache.

    gary gulrud (46ca75)

  59. 18. The reason the progs are late to the Ebola party is their pre-emptive strike against racism; they jumped instantly to interpreting fear of a highly lethal, poorly understood pathogen as an open invitation to xenophobia.

    The party of Abortion is perfectly happy to quarantine Africa and let Gaia sort it out.

    That mobies have now gone full retard is their only path forward in the denouement to Chaos.

    gary gulrud (46ca75)

  60. 52. Steve57, thanks for the info. I do assume that when someone joins a special ops outfit it is considered a volunteer for especially dangerous missions as a standing offer./blockquote>

    Other people may have had different experiences, but in my experience even though they sometimes do ask for volunteers for a specific mission, they don’t actually use whoever volunteers to actually do that job. When I was ordered to volunteer for a job back before we kicked Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait, essentially what happened is they put my name in a pool and considered me eligible to fill any outstanding requirement. I believe the Navy just ended up ordering people to those jobs they initially asked people to volunteer for, since they sent the (unwilling) volunteers elsewhere. They should have just done that from the beginning instead of wasting time looking for volunteers they weren’t going to use anyway.

    It’s just a bureacratic mess.

    Also to be clear I wasn’t special and and I wouldn’t have been working with anyone special had the Navy sent me to the Philippines. The idea was to work with conventional Filipino naval and marine forces conducting counter-terrorist operations, observe, advise, and then develop and conduct training for those forces, and then leave behind the training materials. But it didn’t happen, so it doesn’t matter.

    Crowd control would likely be the most hazardous duty, requiring drastic measures to keep troops safe (tazer anyone first, ask questions later?).

    MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/17/2014 @ 7:23 am

    Fire hoses would work better than tasers if you’re trying to keep a mob off of you.

    Steve57 (e9e6e7)

  61. The Pentagon’s flirtation with PC is, I believe, not an accident. Why else, except to change the Pentagon, would Obama appoint a left wing LA Times writer to a new office created just for this purpose?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Brooks

    Patricia (5fc097)


  62. Fire hoses would work better than tasers if you’re trying to keep a mob off of you.

    Steve57 (e9e6e7) — 9/17/2014 @ 8:20 am

    That’s why I admit my expertise is narrow…
    Assuming that water pressure in Liberia is adequate.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  63. I emphasized this because it’s a bit troubling – if not logistics and hospital building, then what???

    Zombie-Apocalypse Training!
    I hope they issued lots of trench-brooms, and brought a more-than-sufficient amount of ‘OO’.

    askeptic (efcf22)

  64. aphrael (001863) — 9/17/2014 @ 7:22 am

    The UN has a disastrous history of “peacekeeping” in Africa – there were UN troops in Rwanda.
    The heavy UN-lifting in Korea was accomplished by the USA, Australia, and Turkey. I met guys who were ‘in the line’ alongside Turks, and the stories they told were about someone you would want on your side in a dark alley.

    askeptic (efcf22)

  65. Crowd control got a whole lot harder when the DoD got rid of all those 17″ bayonets.

    askeptic (efcf22)

  66. I would also not compare this limited duration fatal disease kinetic military containment operation to the debacle in Somalia. Somalia was a strictly humanitarian operation under Bush 1 and only went tits up when Clinton decided to play “let’s snatch a warlord.”

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  67. The blog would be reduced by half and make much more sense.
    jakee308 (ba1e65) — 9/17/2014 @ 7:06 am

    Otherwise, there are many of us who often agree with your sentiments.
    MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/17/2014 @ 7:16 am

    Yes, I agree. I put my own potential comments through a filter of “consequence” which leads to less comments from me overall, and helps to keep the clutter (from me, anyways) to a minimum. I voluntarily do this, but I would bristle if anyone suggested that this be a policy for others to follow. I completely agree with our host’s free speech policy, and frankly, sometimes I need a haiku, limerick, minizzle, and what not, to break the bleakness with which reality can sometimes be portrayed. Further, how could we come to the conclusion that some line of reasoning is clearly more sound than another, if Sammy were to STFU?

    If I were Goldilocks, I’d say the commenting here was “just right”.

    felipe (40f0f0)

  68. “The UN has a disastrous history of “peacekeeping” in Africa – there were UN troops in Rwanda.”

    askeptic – Don’t be a H8r. U.N. sponsored troops loves them some kiddie diddling.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  69. felipe – I usually wrap yellow plastic caution tape around my head before commenting on the internet just to remind myself to keep it civil. I do the same thing going through TSA screening at airports because I’m not sure what the bastards would do if they knew what I was really thinking.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  70. You and me both, brother! Also, you won’t catch me commenting on the Romney thread. I asked myself, “do I really need to read that thread”?

    felipe (40f0f0)

  71. I am advised I still have a comment lost in moderation.

    It doesn’t appear immoderate by my what passes for standards.

    gary gulrud (46ca75)

  72. MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/17/2014 @ 7:23 am

    is thought that all of the US workers that contracted Ebola did so from daily interaction with people not felt to have had the virus.

    Dr. Brantly and the other one, think, or other people came to this conclusion, that they most likely got it from eating in a cafeteria with another hospital worker not known at the time to have ebola. I read that but can’t find a link right now. Maybe I should leave out the word cafeteria.

    It could have been something less noticeable, of course.

    The other one was there to deliver babies. Lots of people, lots of bodily fluids around, people from all over.

    There’s also now a fourth identity undisclosed ebola patient in the United States who arrived in Atlanta September 9.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  73. Obama Logic: ISIS is no where near Liberia. So our guys are safe from terrorist attacks and from beheadings! Stupid Obama.

    TheHat (58d08b)

  74. Speaking of TehWon…this gunstore in Katy TX is on the cutting edge:
    http://www.westernjournalism.com/texas-gun-store-finally-crossed-line-latest-anti-obama-sign/

    askeptic (efcf22)

  75. 61. …That’s why I admit my expertise is narrow…
    Assuming that water pressure in Liberia is adequate.

    MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/17/2014 @ 10:37 am

    No, the water pressure in Liberia isn’t adequate. Nor is the water adequately treated. Neither are any of their utilities adequate. This is true under the best of circumstances. Presently they are operating under the worst of circumstances. The Liberian government has ordered most government workers to stay home due the the Ebola epidemic. So it’s beyond the realm of sanity that any US effort would rely on them, instead of building stand alone water and power supplies.

    I’ve done enough disaster relief planning with Seabees to be familiar with how they think (when you tell them how many people they’ll be building for, they start by calculating an adequate number of latrines and work backward from there). They’re thorough.

    This is assuming the administration deigns to listen to the engineers. Not always a given considering the fact that Tiger Beat thinks he’s a better campaign manager than his campaign manager, a better speech writer than his speech writer, and now a better ISIS adviser than ISIS’ own advisers. This administration has demonstrated that it will operate outside the realm of sanity.

    But if they do remain within the realm of sanity and listen to the engineers, I’m sure they’d provide adequate water pressure to use fire hoses for crowd control.

    Steve57 (e9e6e7)

  76. askeptic – sure, the UN has a disastrous history in Africa. Just about everyone who has intervened there does.

    But realistically our options are: the US intervenes in its own name, the US intervenes under the aegis of the UN, or the US doesn’t intervene and watches the situation deteriorate.

    I think option 2 is the least worst of the options.

    aphrael (af3e66)

  77. Steve57, you’re a wealth of interesting info on this thread.

    It seems like this is the ideal situation for the UN to be responsible – even if they subcontract it out to us, doing it under their aegis and flying their flag carries much less political risk.

    Aphrael, doesn’t this assume the rest of the world will agree with you that the UN would take responsibility? America, it seems, is damned if we do, damned if we don’t. Unpopular kids on the block and convenient default scapegoat if things go south. Well, more south than Ebola…

    Dana (4dbf62)

  78. The stated purpose of USAID, subtending the State Department, is to direct the military units in establishing a command and control over the relief effort. The details remain to be fleshed out, but it would set up 17 isolation clinics and train healthcare workers.

    But some weeks ago Liberia had effectively quarantined 75,000. The logistics of maintaining their nutrition alone seems beyond the US effort. It is way to little, too late.

    gary gulrud (46ca75)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.1046 secs.