Police Reported a Week Ago That Officer Was Injured After Altercation With Michael Brown, Plus, A New Shooting
Yesterday, I linked a report concerning anonymous claims that the officer who shot Michael Brown sustained an eye fracture, and expressed some skepticism, saying: “Ferguson P.D. never mentioned it before.” While it’s true (as far as I know) that the department never mentioned a fractured eye socket before, a correspondent writes to tell me that on August 13, which is now over one week ago, Reuters reported that the officer had sustained an injury to his face:
Police Chief Thomas Jackson told a news conference the unidentified officer was treated at a hospital for swelling on the side of his face, one of the few details released about events surrounding the Saturday night shooting of 18-year-old Michael Brown.
Again, this is not as clear or convincing as a fractured eye socket, which is what is now being reported, albeit so far only by anonymous sources. But my correspondent also notes that the police department is being told by the federal government not to release certain information. For example, they initially did not release the video due to special pleading from DoJ. The Huffington Post recently reported:
CNN revealed on Saturday that the Department of Justice found out about the video earlier this week and asked police not to make it public.
Interestingly, this tidbit was removed from the CNN article linked by HuffPo — but the news lives on in a CNN reporter’s Twitter feed:
DoJ opposed #Ferguson cops releasing robbery video, citing concern of inflaming tensions, law enf ofcl says; cops did it anyway
— Evan Pérez (@evanperez) August 16, 2014
So who knows what else police have been instructed — sorry, “asked” — not to say by the feds? It’s possible Governor Jay “Darren Wilson must be vigorously prosecuted” Nixon got in on the act as well.
Meanwhile, there has been another shooting, and this one is on video. Don’t watch it if such things disturb you. Police had received calls about a man with a knife acting erratically. When they arrived at the scene, Kajieme Powell had the knife and walked towards police, yelling “Shoot me now!” He then walked to his left and then again towards one of the officers. You can see what happened here:
Initial police reports described the guy as coming within 3-4 feet of the police and holding the knife in an “overhand grip.” The video shows that is inaccurate. Powell is a little further away than 3-4 feet when he is shot. Exactly how far away is tough to tell from the video — maybe 8-10 feet? He is not holding the knife above his head, but at his side. Nevertheless, you do hear Powell screaming “Shoot me now! Shoot me now, motherfucker!” You hear officers yelling for him to drop the knife, and he does not obey their instructions.
Jack Dunphy, the pseudonymous L.A. cop and talented writer, used to be a guest poster here at patterico.com. He once wrote a post titled Come at a Cop With a Knife, Expect to Be Shot. Some people who are completely clueless about the danger posed by knife-wielding assailants are saying the cops should have used tasers. Are you kidding me? People kill people with knives. I am going to go out on a limb here and declare that Powell should have dropped the knife and complied with the officers’ orders. Instead, he approached them screaming “Shoot me now, motherfuckers!” Not a wise move. If I were on a jury, based on that video, I’d vote that the cops had the right to shoot Powell.
The knife incident is pretty clearly suicide by cop.
One could argue, I suppose, that cops ought to have training and methodology for situations like that. No doubt under perfect circumstances cops COULD take the guy down with non-lethal force. But by far the most incriminating thing about that shooting is that they lied about it.
(Or, perhaps, they didn’t lie — perhaps memories of extremely stressful situations are inherently unreliable. That’s a principle that the cops will admit for their own defense, though not for the defense of others.)
Ken (2e87a6) — 8/21/2014 @ 7:47 am“If the perp uses his fist, you use your baton. If he pulls a knife, you pull your piece and cancel his ticket right then and there.”
mojo (4a927a) — 8/21/2014 @ 7:52 amofficer-assisted suicide. Better he’s dropped in his tracks than to have any innocent people injured or worse. Never ceases to amaze me that some people don’t understand the importance of complying w/law enforcement.
Colonel Haiku (82c1e5) — 8/21/2014 @ 7:59 amthe Crump team, spins a narrative, through Bosley, to the New Yorker, which created the hashtag and they allow no other facts, (we saw what Caroli did, when some were presented)
narciso (ee1f88) — 8/21/2014 @ 8:00 amInflaming tensions means doing anything going against the mob.
AZ Bob (62c293) — 8/21/2014 @ 8:06 amThis confrontation is more ambiguous or less clearly defined to me. Yes, the person should have followed the commands of the cops, but the situation before, during and after the shooting at least has more shades of gray than, for example, the George Zimmerman vs Trayvon Martin controversy, or the story of Michael Brown and the cop in Ferguson.
Mark (14a4db) — 8/21/2014 @ 8:07 amHmmm… It almost sounds like someone is putting their thumb on the scale….
Edoc118 (c37322) — 8/21/2014 @ 8:07 amFor some reason I initially said August 20 was the date of the Reuters article, but it was actually August 13. I have corrected it.
Patterico (9c670f) — 8/21/2014 @ 8:08 amI am sure someone remembers the details,
but it is like some MSM big-whig said years ago, “It’s news if we say it is.”
And the corollary, if they don’t want it to be news, they don’t say anything about it.
I linked it the other day, not sure if you saw it, there was a local (St. Louis) newspaper reporter who tweeted that there were “a dozen” witnesses who backed Wilson’s version of the story (that we know only by hearsay), and in less than 24 hours tweeted that she was on leave, something supposedly about the locally unsafe situation made a problem for child care/child’s physical(?) therapy.
And Megyn Kelly reported that Holder’s civil rights crew that he sent/took to Ferguson is 50 strong.
I asked this yesterday elsewhere, don’t think it had a response. In a criminal trial, can testimony for the defense be done in such a way as the name is not released? Otherwise, I can easily see witnesses for the defense not wanting to testify, or if possible sell their house and move out of town first.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 8/21/2014 @ 8:14 amTelling the protesters that some of what they believe is not true…
…inflames tensions?
When they arrived at the scene, Kajieme Powell had the knife and walked towards police, yelling “Shoot me now!”
I made a little mistake (although I didn’t specifically write it that way) earlier.
This shooting was in St Louis itself, not Ferguson. (and if I’d read the original report a bit nore careffully, i would have noticed that)
And it seems to have not been made into anything to protest over.
Sammy Finkelman (3ba0b7) — 8/21/2014 @ 8:18 amMD in Philly (f9371b) — 8/21/2014 @ 8:14 am
In a criminal trial, can testimony for the defense be done in such a way as the name is not released?
Since that’s true for the prosecution, that surely is true for the defense, but the ability to guarantee that the name doesn’t become public may be less.
Sammy Finkelman (3ba0b7) — 8/21/2014 @ 8:19 amAdult witnesses who testify for either side in a criminal trial must give their name.
Patterico (e29d5b) — 8/21/2014 @ 8:24 amAnd yes, the shooting was in St. Louis, not Ferguson. I have edited the post title.
Patterico (e29d5b) — 8/21/2014 @ 8:27 amIf the cops had a device–not a weapon–to deal with a knife-wielding nutcase, what would it look like? A biggish Louisville Slugger, perhaps? Whatever it is, it would be imprssive and its use would be just as inflammatory as the use of a gun should the powers that be decide it shouldb be so.
Richard Aubrey
GA (f6d8de) — 8/21/2014 @ 8:30 amHow many here have seen or read anything about the police shooting in Salt Lake City. You know, where the media reported that a “non-white” police officer shot an unarmed white teen-ager. I guess that since the shooter was “non-white” and the victim was white, it is not newsworthy to the MSM. Or, it coiuld be that the shooting was not accompanied by protests, riots, looting or political opportunists.
Michael M. Keohane (84948f) — 8/21/2014 @ 8:32 am12. Patterico (e29d5b) — 8/21/2014 @ 8:24 am
Adult witnesses who testify for either side in a criminal trial must give their name.
But it can be kept from the general public, right?
Sammy Finkelman (3ba0b7) — 8/21/2014 @ 8:33 amIt is not true for the prosecution. The defendant has a constitutional right to confront his accusers, and to try to impeach them, so he has to be told in advance exactly
Milhouse (9d71c3) — 8/21/2014 @ 8:35 amwho they are. If the state can’t make its case without exposing witnesses whom it doesn’t want to expose, then its only choice is to drop the prosecution. I don’t see a constitutional reason why the defense could not put on anonymous witnesses, but I can’t see a judge agreeing to it. If it were lawful for witnesses to refuse to testify, then I suppose a defendant could claim a fifth-amendment right to call anonymous witnesses, on the grounds that this is the only way for the truth to be brought out. But I imaigne any judge’s response would be that he already has the right to compel anyone’s testimony, let him use that, and remind his witnesses of the penalty for perjury. The flaw is that a witness may realise (or an unscrupulous member or supporter of the prosecution may inform him) that no matter what penalty for perjury is on the books, he’s never going to be prosecuted for it, so he’s free to say whatever will keep him safe from the mob.
No, it cannot.
Milhouse (9d71c3) — 8/21/2014 @ 8:36 amso Powell was farther away from the cops, but they wanted them to use a taser, does that make sense,
narciso (ee1f88) — 8/21/2014 @ 8:42 am(well it is the Puffington Host, so clearly not)
Michael M. Keohane (84948f) — 8/21/2014 @ 8:32 am
I guess that since the shooter was “non-white” and the victim was white, it is not newsworthy to the MSM. Or, it coiuld be that the shooting was not accompanied by protests, riots, looting or political opportunists.
It’s of less interest to Al Sharpton et al, and the media is mostly interested in what’s generating controversy.
The shooter being non-white gives it less points, but it still could have made the list.
I think Al Sharpton is only interested in cases that meet the following conditions – and they are a very small fraction of all homicides: (with some excptions)
1) The person killed was black.
2) The person who did the killing was white, or a law enforcement officer.
3) The person killed was killed with a gun.
4) The person killed did not have a gun himself.
5) The person who did the killing has not been arrested.
Sometimes killing without a gun, if done by a law enforcement officer, may work for Al
Sharpton. The Staten island case involves a killing without agun, but by a police officer in the course of his duties.
The person killed having a knife, as in St. Louis, also may make the case unattractive. It is absolute condition of Al Sharpton taking up the case that the person killed did not have a gun.
Sammy Finkelman (3ba0b7) — 8/21/2014 @ 8:42 amAfter all of the crap that has been going on, tell me, how eager would you be to get on the stand and testify to the effect that Wilson was justified?
Seriously. I could see someone going to jail for refusing to testify rather than put there family in danger of fire-bombing in the middle of the night.
Same with grand jury testimony, or can that be sealed?
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 8/21/2014 @ 8:44 amSome people who are completely clueless about the danger posed by knife-wielding assailants are saying the cops should have used tasers. Are you kidding me?
My favorite idiots are the ones over at Gawker (naturally) who say that the police should have shot this guy in the leg to stop his advance. Deep down inside they probably think that the cops have the ability to shoot the knife right out of his hand, like John Wayne in Rio Bravo or something.
JVW (638245) — 8/21/2014 @ 8:44 amSame with grand jury testimony, or can that be sealed?
It is unlawful in New York to disclose grand jury proceedings and is a misdemeanor to prematurely disclose an indictment. Do not know if that is the case in Missouri or re the U.S. Attorneys. Would put nothing past Eric Holder (or, truth be told, U.S. Attorneys generally).
Art Deco (ee8de5) — 8/21/2014 @ 8:46 amThanks for that tidbit, AD.
So, depending on state law, the testimony to current grand jury investigation under the local DA might be secret, but maybe not depending on state law, and any witness would still have to believe it would stay secret to speak up,
and then things are subject to holder and Co.
I think anyone who saw something that makes Wilson appear to be justified need prayer for courage and wisdom.
I don’t suppose “witness protection” programs include keeping defense witnesses safe from a mob, do they.
Show of hands, do others think I am justified in my concern that defense witnesses would fear for their safety if they came forward and were publicly identified?
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 8/21/2014 @ 8:59 amA knife within 7 yards are so is a very deadly weapon: it only takes a second for the guy to cross that space and put it in you. Also, a knife held low is harder to defend against than one held overhand. The guy was a mortal threat to the cops.
Could the cops have used non-lethal weapons? Perhaps, but those have limitations that can cost your life. Tasers? No good if the probes hang up in clothing, has limited range and no second shot. Mace? Limited range and often not effective. Night stick? The knife wielding bad guy has you “out-gunned” and within reach.
DKN (efe899) — 8/21/2014 @ 8:59 amNot at all eager, but I would do it because it would be my duty. But I can easily understand someone not wanting to do it, and not having such a strong sense of duty that his conscience would compel him.
Indeed, as I said that is a flaw in the system. The law assumes this will not happen, and that anyone who worries about it happening is paranoid, so there’s no need to accommodate it.
Grand jury testimony is sealed, but a witness has the right, after his testimony, to tell people what he said (and since the transcript is sealed he can lie about it and not be challenged). But leaks have been known to happen, so no witness can completely rely on it.
Milhouse (9d71c3) — 8/21/2014 @ 9:02 amWell, it would, but guess who runs the witness protection program.
Absolutely.
Milhouse (9d71c3) — 8/21/2014 @ 9:04 amThanks, Milhouse
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 8/21/2014 @ 9:08 amI assumed that a prosecution witness would not be allowed to be anonymous because of the right to face an accuser, but I did not know if a defense witness had to be made public, or if there could be some testimony before the judge and DA and a transcript of the testimony and cross examination be read to the jury, “to protect the innocent” as they say.
Why is the standard what the cops have a “right” to do? Why isn’t the standard what the cops NEED to do?
Leviticus (474f8b) — 8/21/2014 @ 9:09 amDid the cops NEED to shoot Powell?
Leviticus (474f8b) — 8/21/2014 @ 9:10 amDid the cops NEED to shoot Powell?
What alternative do you propose, with the caveat that it has to have an extremely high degree of safety for the officers?
JVW (638245) — 8/21/2014 @ 9:14 amdo others think I am justified in my concern that defense witnesses would fear for their safety if they came forward and were publicly identified?
Depends on the ambo. If they live in Ferguson and remain there, there might be people who would make life difficult for them. Moving to the next town, no. George Zimmerman has had a difficult time of it the last year or so (and appears to be disoriented to a degree), and may for a number of years to come. Can you name any of the jury?
Art Deco (ee8de5) — 8/21/2014 @ 9:16 amMilhouse (9d71c3) — 8/21/2014 @ 9:02 am
a witness has the right, after his testimony, to tell people what he said (and since the transcript is sealed he can lie about it and not be challenged).
Actually, it can be. You can ask the witness to ask that his tetsimony be released, with the right to disbelieve him if he doesn’t.
I think Mario Biaggi’s bluff was called, and he asked for his testimony to be released, and it was, and it was revealed he wasn’t telling the truth about his grand jury testimony. (Biaggi may have been gambling that the court would decline to make his testimony public in spite of his formal request. He had claimed that he hadn’t taken the Fifth amendment.)
http://scholarship.law.stjohns.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2823&context=lawreview
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/27/new-insight-into-a-1973-mayoral-hopefuls-losing-gambit/
Sammy Finkelman (3ba0b7) — 8/21/2014 @ 9:16 amAlso, if there is a prosecution, then the grand jury testimony is released to the defendant.
At least if the witness is on the witness list of either the prosecution or the defense, or if the defense requests it and also in any case if there is an argument that there could be something exculpatory in it.
Sammy Finkelman (3ba0b7) — 8/21/2014 @ 9:17 amWhy is the standard what the cops have a “right” to do? Why isn’t the standard what the cops NEED to do?
Leviticus (474f8b) — 8/21/2014 @ 9:09 am
“Right” or policy is objective, while “need” is nebulous and far too subjective
Colonel Haiku (e6799b) — 8/21/2014 @ 9:22 ammy 2 cents before I go work,
I think “need” to do is more subject to “what if’s”, translate “right” as “appropriate”, and the focus is on the reasonability of the officer’s actions, not second hand guessing as what could have been done.
One needs to be realistic about what one does instead. Was the officer supposed to turn his back and run to the other side of the car like playing “keep away”?
I don’t think the officer ever considered the possibility that the guy would actually come toward him with knife in hand, and so was not prepared to deal with this alternative.
As said, I think this was “suicide by cop”, or the guy was otherwise so delusion he didn’t realize what he was doing.
Hindsight is always 20/20, to fairly evaluate the actions of another you need to “put yourself in their shoes” as they say. They have confronted a man at a safe distance with a knife and have told him to drop it, instead he approaches and appears to be in lunging distance when the cop fires. Cops are taught to not use their gun unless it is imminent life and death, they don’t have the opportunity to take one shot, wait to see the outcome, then decide whether or not to shoot again. The decision/reaction to shoot multiple times was made when it was decided to shoot.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 8/21/2014 @ 9:26 amLikely this was the first time he ever had to use his gun, and I bet often he didn’t even handle it out of the holster.
The witness protection program has such restriction on it (as to what kind of contact the witness is allowed to maintain with his family) that many people opt out of it.
There’s the one guy (a multiple murderer) who’s trying to avoid deportation to the Dominican Republic (claiming he would be killed there) who had declined the witness protection program.
He is saying he is safe in the United States under his own name, but not safe in the Dominican Republic anywhere. Meanwhile, he is staying in an immigration jail.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/07/nyregion/after-aiding-government-a-gang-figure-seeks-its-help-fighting-deportation.html
Apparently he was initially released, and expected an S visa but didn’t get it. The FBI tried to place a hold on his deportation, but ICE refused to grant it.
He probably deserves to get killed, anyway.
One question: could he have actually legally have been put into the witness protection program?
Sammy Finkelman (3ba0b7) — 8/21/2014 @ 9:27 amthat cop in the essay Dana linked warned about what happens when police stop you and you call them bad names
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/21/2014 @ 9:35 am“that cop in the essay Dana linked warned about what happens when police stop you and you call them bad names”
Mr. Feets – Good reminder. Be sure to smile and put a “Mister” in front of the bad words you call him before you go all Milhouse and remind him that he’s not more important than you and we don’t have any kings in this country and that you both put on your pants one leg at a time and you don’t intend to comply with his unreasonable demands because you know your rights and everything will work out just fine.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/21/2014 @ 10:01 amworked out super good for Miriam Carey
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/21/2014 @ 10:12 amThere you go!
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/21/2014 @ 10:15 amI can tell you from personal, first-hand experience that whenever a witness declares “He didn’t do nothing!” the first thing you can do is disregard all witnesses.
BTW the video needed more of the videographer saying “He dead.” I wasn’t quite clear on that point the first 20 times he said it.
CrustyB (69f730) — 8/21/2014 @ 10:25 am“Otherwise, I can easily see witnesses for the defense not wanting to testify, or if possible sell their house and move out of town first.”
MD in Philly – It’s the same point I’ve made in other threads a few times. Many locals and the media decided to push the Michael Brown was executed by the police narrative very early on. The only people you see being interviewed in person on TV are the ones supporting that narrative. The store owner of the place which Brown robbed wanted to make sure the community knew he was not the one who alerted the police to the robbery, presumably out of fear of retaliation. His store has been looted twice anyway. The “witnesses” who have been speaking to reporters have had conflicting stories about what happened.
To me that makes it entirely credible that there are witnesses who support a law enforcement narrative but do not have any desire to speak publicly at this point out of fear of retribution. Given the anti-police orientation of the DOJ lawyers involved, if indeed such witnesses exist, they are probably actively trying to prevent leaks of such statements.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/21/2014 @ 10:29 am“BTW the video needed more of the videographer saying “He dead.” I wasn’t quite clear on that point the first 20 times he said it.”
Pining for the fjords?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/21/2014 @ 10:30 amThe officer could have used his xray vision to make the knife too hot to hold. I saw that on an episode of Cops once.
Or it could have been Superman.
How about this ebola guy? Now that he is “cured” doesn’t that make him a walking vector?
papertiger (c2d6da) — 8/21/2014 @ 11:07 am“The officer could have used his xray vision to make the knife too hot to hold. I saw that on an episode of Cops once.”
papertiger – They probably don’t use the xray vision stuff when other people are nearby because it could heat up innocent bystanders by mistake. I thought police departments were being issued Spiderman wrist web dispensers these days. They could have wrapped up the guy’s knife hand in spider webs to eliminate the danger. I saw that on an episode of CSI.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/21/2014 @ 11:17 amThe officer fired 9 times. The last two into a man on the ground who clearly was not a threat. Its called excessive force. If you found someone burglarizing your home would you shoot them nine times? Would you expect to get away with it? This guy was begging to be shot, but nine shots is insane especially in light of the fact that its in a populated area and innocent people could have been shot.
Mark Johnson (27da80) — 8/21/2014 @ 11:39 amIf you found someone burglarizing your home would you shoot them nine times? Would you expect to get away with it?
That’s not the right way of looking at it. The correct question is: If a guy charged at you with a knife would you shoot him 9 times? My answer is yeah, I think I would.
JVW (638245) — 8/21/2014 @ 11:46 amWhat never ceases to amaze me each time I watch that video are the idiots standing around directly downrange from the cops. Depending on how Mac the Knife wandered around, back and forth between the bystanders and the cops, they could have been hit by a pass-through or a missed shot.
Steve57 (99bd31) — 8/21/2014 @ 11:52 amMark Johnson,
see what I said above about putting yourself in the cops shoes.
He has likely never shot anyone before, probably doesn’t train to engage people with a knife at lunging distance.
And cops are instructed to fir only when they decide it is life or death and no other choice,
Once the decision is made to pull the trigger, he will keep pulling the trigger until his mind says, “ok, enough already”, which will always be a shot or two (at least) more than necessary.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/21/2014 @ 10:29 am
I saw your comments before about the narrative, but did not put 2 and 2 together about the impact on witnesses until earlier today, and then I wondered if there were mechanisms for defense witnesses not to have their ID made public.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 8/21/2014 @ 11:07 am
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 8/21/2014 @ 11:53 amWith most viral infections (HIV and Hep C being two exceptions, and chicken pox sort-of) an antibody response controls the infection and “cures” the person if they recover. there certainly have been dozens, if not 100’s, of Ebola survivors before and they were not vectors/carriers. In fact, one treatment the doc received was a blood transfusion from a former patient of his who survived.
Perhaps it will make him immune to Ebola and the ultimate candidate to doctor there again, but it may not and I am sure he would take the same precautions (except better!) as before if he returns.
And, there are other hemorrhagic fever-type viruses where the second case is worse than the first, but I don’t think they are in the same family of viruses as Ebola.
#49… true dat, Steve!
Colonel Haiku (fbc7a0) — 8/21/2014 @ 11:55 amThere were some brave witness citizens who came forward and told the truth in the Trayvon-Zimmerman trial, which made a real difference. And there are plenty of cases where prosecution witnesses in mob trials have not lived to testify. But it is the sacred duty of our justice system to assure the integrity and trust in our court system by making good efforts protect and to reasonably insure the safety of witnesses in trials–both defense and prosecution ones. That so many of us here cannot and do not trust that this will happen in this case is sobering and sad.
elissa (e9e9a1) — 8/21/2014 @ 11:58 amBecause the cops have the same right to self-defense as anyone else. They didn’t give it up when they put on a uniform. They didn’t shoot him to arrest him. They shot him because he had a deadly weapon and clearly posed a grave danger when he wouldn’t drop it and approached them belligerently. You simply can not let someone with a knife get too close to you.
And anyone who approaches someone pointing a gun at them, belligerently and threateningly despite clearly seeing the gun, is a very dangerous individual by definition. Normal people just don’t do that.
Steve57 (99bd31) — 8/21/2014 @ 11:58 amWell, just as the cop never expected he would have to fire his gun, neither did the bystanders.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 8/21/2014 @ 11:59 amTrue, elissa, but I don’t think there was the rioting and violence with Martin as here, which ups the stakes.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 8/21/2014 @ 12:01 pmI’m just recognizing the fact that people may have to worry about the safety of their family, not just their own.
You got yo left hand
Colonel Haiku (fbc7a0) — 8/21/2014 @ 12:03 pmYou got yo right hand
You got yo left hand
You got yo right hand
Well the left hand diddlin’
While the right hand got a knife
BOOM!!!!
Crazy is funny ’til someone gets dropped by teh po-pos…
Colonel Haiku (fbc7a0) — 8/21/2014 @ 12:04 pmThat’s not even the right way of looking at it.
First, let’s understand just what it means to be his by an unarmed person.
I have been kicked and had my eyebrow torn open.
I have been punched and gotten a concussion.
I have been punched and “knocked out”. (I should have fallen down but I was too pumped with adrenaline. Five minutes later when I stopped for a breath my entire body went limp as I finally felt the effects of the impact.)
And none of those people were trying to kill me. Two were during sport fighting and one was from a minor argument with an acquaintance.
Aggravating that, people operate under this peculiar assumption that getting hit by someone’s fist isn’t dangerous.
That it takes an hour of pummeling to knock someone unconscious or seriously bruise them up.
That it takes extreme force to break a bone or cause a crippling injury.
That it takes real focus and training to cause a lethal injury.
No. It doesn’t. It is exceptionally dangerous.
And from some 6’4″, 300 lb., individual who is willing to reach into a police car and pummel a cop?
An angry look from such a person qualifies as a death threat.
Second, people operate under these peculiar assumptions regarding firearms.
When you pull the trigger on a firearm, you do not know exactly where it will hit.
You should certainly have a very good idea, but your target can move in the fraction of a second between your finger tightening and the bullet traveling.
More critically, barring absolute certainty as to where it will impact, you cannot know precisely what effect the bullet will have on the target.
You don’t know instantly whether you have grazed his forearm or severed the nerve plexus in the biceps, rendering his arm utterly useless.
You don’t know instantly whether you have blown a hole through his heart causing instant death, punctured his lung causing death in 30 seconds, or simply gut shot him causing death after an hour of agony.
You don’t know whether your head shot has blown his brains out the back of his skull, ricocheted inside his head giving him an advanced lobotomy, or bounced off his skull giving him an exceptionally bloody but utterly harmless scratch.
And in the time it takes to figure out just how much damage your first shot has done, assess whether to fire again at the same place, switch to another target, or just cease firing, an attacker will have covered 30 feet of distance, torn your head off, and desecrated your remains.
Or you fire again as soon as possible until you are sure you and anyone you might be protecting is safe.
Mind you, that doesn’t mean people can just empty a dozen magazines into an attacker and be “justified”, particularly if the last three are fired when said attacker is clearly lying face down in pieces in a large pool of blood and parts.
It does however mean that a simple count of bullets fired is simply not going to be sufficient to prove anything all by itself.
And unfortunately, not only does the law have to comprehend these basic realities, but so do people attempting to judge the facts and intent of the people involved.
Sam (e8f1ad) — 8/21/2014 @ 12:17 pmI’ve been told that in general police are not too happy about the body cam idea, unless the contents are not made public, because no one watching a police video will have the necessary perspective unless they have the training and experience.
It’s not like a fight in the ring where there is a referee saying back off and nothing will happen until he blows the whistle again.
As said above, reaction time is generally too slow to wait to see what the assailant does, one has to assess the situation then act, not react.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 8/21/2014 @ 12:27 pmThe white people of ferguson have the tiger by the tail and are afraid to let go! We are now waiting for someone to make a mistake and start shooting.
justin (24b2b3) — 8/21/2014 @ 12:45 pmGo back to sleep, Perry.
JD (583693) — 8/21/2014 @ 12:53 pm“The officer fired 9 times. The last two into a man on the ground who clearly was not a threat. Its called excessive force. ”
There is no evidence of this, Mark.
JD (583693) — 8/21/2014 @ 12:54 pmThe description of holding the knife in an “overhand grip” most likely is meant that the blade of the knife extended from the “heel” of the hand (pinkie side) as opposed to extending from between the thumb and forefinger. If his arms were at his side, the knife blade would actually be pointing away from the direction he was facing. But, when brought to play, the knife would be deployed in a downward, slashing motion.
askeptic (efcf22) — 8/21/2014 @ 12:58 pmIf he was still moving, even on the ground at such close quarters, he is considered a threat, and you keep shooting until all motion ceases.
askeptic (efcf22) — 8/21/2014 @ 1:00 pmBetter to be judged by 12, than carried by 6!
Unfortunately, what most of the general-public knows about life-and-death encounters is the product of imagery from Hollywood, which is enhanced-fantasy.
askeptic (efcf22) — 8/21/2014 @ 1:02 pmIf this police department in Ferguson was a print-shop, they’d be using a Gutenberg Press, with only two letters.
askeptic (efcf22) — 8/21/2014 @ 1:08 pmThey suck at information gathering, collation, analysis, and dissemination – and that’s on their good days.
I know that early reports of incidents are typically false, but I always thought that eventually the truth would come out. People talk, secrets can’t be kept forever, facts emerge.
But people can be threatened. Secrets are kept to an astonishing degree. Information can be suppressed. And powerful, believable narratives have strong momentum.
I no longer expect to ever know what really happened.
Amphipolis (d3e04f) — 8/21/2014 @ 1:10 pm63. 64. Do you think that in general a knife guy on the ground is a bit different situation for a cop than a gun guy on the ground? It would seem to me that it is.
elissa (e9e9a1) — 8/21/2014 @ 1:13 pmelissa,
askeptic (efcf22) — 8/21/2014 @ 1:17 pmDifferent, but still dangerous.
If his gun was empty, and he threw it at you, it might leave a bruise – a knife OTOH can stick, and stick deep.
Only in the movies do we see “one-shot wonders” that miraculously deal with the situation by dropping the bad-guy and immobilizing him with that perfect non-lethal shot. And Roy Rodgers could shoot the pistol out of your hand at 50-yds.
The officer fired 9 times. The last two into a man on the ground who clearly was not a threat.
Fragmentary accounts suggest perhaps 7x. The rest is your imagination.
Art Deco (ee8de5) — 8/21/2014 @ 1:19 pm“Only in the movies do we see “one-shot wonders” that miraculously deal with the situation by dropping the bad-guy and immobilizing him with that perfect non-lethal shot.”
askeptic – Following papertiger’s lead above this was obviously the time to break out the satellite pinpoint immobilization threat system (SPITS) for a non-lethal solution to the situation. It works sort of like On-Star. I saw that on an episode of X-Files.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/21/2014 @ 1:25 pmThe rest was a complete asspull.
JD (583693) — 8/21/2014 @ 1:25 pmWhen you give a criminals what he demands, there should be no complaints afterwards if the criminal objects to that which was demanded.
Rodney King's Spirit (8b9b5a) — 8/21/2014 @ 1:27 pmCops need a cool net gun….
EPWJ (fa0e23) — 8/21/2014 @ 1:30 pmYeah, where’s SpiderMan when you need him.
askeptic (efcf22) — 8/21/2014 @ 1:34 pmWhere does this idea that’s floating around come from that the officer was or is in the hospital for treatment of his facial injury?
Sammy Finkelman (3ba0b7) — 8/21/2014 @ 1:35 pmI believe it was reported by Reuters.
askeptic (efcf22) — 8/21/2014 @ 1:37 pmBut, since someone put his address and a pix of his house out on TV, his whereabouts is a closely held secret in light of all the direct, and indirect death-threats that have emanated.
59. MD in Philly (f9371b) — 8/21/2014 @ 12:27 pm
I’ve been told that in general police are not too happy about the body cam idea, unless the contents are not made public, because no one watching a police video will have the necessary perspective unless they have the training and experience.
The police chief in Ferguson said, according to a news report, that they had ordered dash cams and body cams, and they had been delivered, but they hadn’t been installed.
He didn’t say how long they’d had them without installing them.
As said above, reaction time is generally too slow to wait to see what the assailant does, one has to assess the situation then act, not react.
The New York City police department is said to advise police to assess the situation after 3 shots.
Sammy Finkelman (3ba0b7) — 8/21/2014 @ 1:39 pm@62, and precursors: There were two officers present. Cannot tell from the video if both had their guns out, but they should have. Both most likely fired at least one, but most likely two or three.
The standard training was to fire in bursts of 2 when the revolver was the standard sidearm; shoot 2, evaluate results… repeat as necessary. With the semi-auto replacing the revolver, the “conventional wisdom” went to a 3-round burst since there was more ammo immediately available and there was lingering doubt that the 9mm packed the same punch as the .357mag. All this to say that at current standards, 3 rounds per officer was by-the-book, and 4-5 not that far off the mark, accounting for adrenaline and all.
And for those who earlier in the week were blathering on about how 2-man cars might have, or even would have, made for a better outcome in Ferguson… might you want to re-think that a little?
Gramps, the original (d40b0b) — 8/21/2014 @ 1:43 pm“The officer fired 9 times. The last two into a man on the ground who clearly was not a threat. Its called excessive force. ”
Squishy much, Mark?
Colonel Haiku (2d77cf) — 8/21/2014 @ 1:44 pm@78- NYPD is overrated…. with all due respect.
Gramps, the original (d40b0b) — 8/21/2014 @ 1:45 pmWell, I think this video is a bit unusual and at times I think two officers would be better than one. As said, I think this fellow wanted “suicide by police” or was delusional somehow, and 1 or 50 officers would not have made a difference.
Again, put yourself in the officer’s position. A person is approaching you with a knife, you don’t know what to think because you’ve told him to stop and drop it and he hasn’t. You decide, “This is serious, I need to defend myself” and at the last minute, perhaps in lunging range, you start firing while your adrenalin is flowing and your heart is pounding.
Personally, unless one has been in that situation, I think one should be slow to criticize…
at least until SPITS becomes operational.
76.Where does this idea that’s floating around come from that the officer was or is in the hospital for treatment of his facial injury?
Sammy Finkelman (3ba0b7) — 8/21/2014 @ 1:35 pm
Sammy, did you really ask that?
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 8/21/2014 @ 1:56 pmTry going back to the top of the page and read the original post and follow the link.
Clearly this was a case of disproportionate force.
When the guy came at the cop holding a knife, the cop should only have been allowed to use a knife himself.
</moonbat>
Dave (in MA) (037445) — 8/21/2014 @ 2:01 pmi’m even more over the whole Ferguson thing today than i was yesterday
if you graphed my interest level from yesterday to today it would look like this:
\
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/21/2014 @ 2:08 pmMD in Philly (f9371b) — 8/21/2014 @ 1:56 pm
It says there:
For a swelling on his face, and that probably means treated and released.
Not for a fractured eye socket, which I don’t think you’d do anything more than for a fractured rib.
Now maybe a fracture could have been discovered in the hospital. If so, it would be a hairline fracture.
The Reuters article has nothinbg about any bones being broken in his skull.
Sammy Finkelman (3ba0b7) — 8/21/2014 @ 2:09 pmAh, Sammy. Something seems broken in you, sometimes. Take a pause. You (nor I) have the facts yet.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 8/21/2014 @ 2:15 pm@81 Agree with that, but are they as overrated as the feebs?
Labcatcher (61737c) — 8/21/2014 @ 2:19 pmI’m always surprised by people second guessing how best to handle a life or death situation. Guy with a knife, shoot to disarm. Really? Taser? Honestly? How many people here have been involved in such a situation (I’ll bet a few have, and they could tell of the “fluidity” of such situations).
Our problem, I think, is too much television and too many movies. Like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KvO-8IvoCI
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 8/21/2014 @ 2:19 pm“Shoot to disarm”? Bull. In the movies the shot-away gun is unloaded, shouldn’t have a working firing mechanism, and is pulled away by a wire. Sound effects added later.
If you threaten with a deadly weapon … you’ve bought a ticket into a world of hurt, with injury or death likely to arrive very soon. Don’t do that.
htom (412a17) — 8/21/2014 @ 2:42 pmThat isn’t quite true, Doc. When cops respond to to 911 calls about someone wielding a deadly weapon, they are well aware they might have to shoot. The bystanders should have known that, too. But they seemed none to bright.
Steve57 (99bd31) — 8/21/2014 @ 2:42 pm90- There seems to be a lot of ‘dim’ in that corner of MO.
askeptic (efcf22) — 8/21/2014 @ 2:45 pmThat was a hilarious scene, but yes, it makes the point you’re going for. There’s no way anyone could possibly be precisely accurate with a gun in a tense close situation, but Hollywood uses fantasy to makes its heroes larger than life.
I don’t know enough about what really happened in this shooting to comment intelligently on it, and I think many of you folks should hesitate to assume as true whichever set of facts supports your conclusions.
Fractured face, shot in the back, etc etc. We’re being manipulated. That our media is happy to make a quick buck fanning the flames when there’s real news out there says quite a lot about our society.
Dustin (7f67e8) — 8/21/2014 @ 2:48 pmthe takeaway i think is that America’s trashy cop thugs are gonna just keep shooting and pretend like the civil unrest and riotings they potentially cause everytime they gun someone down are Somebody Else’s Problem
this Ferguson thing may be a lot of things but a cause for introspection on the part of america’s whorecops?
nope
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/21/2014 @ 2:52 pm@87– Since NYPD at least puts lots of folks “out amongst them”, they have to get some points for that. Feebs are in a class by themselves.
gramps, the original (d40b0b) — 8/21/2014 @ 3:03 pm@sammy said,
The Reuters article has nothing about any bones being broken in his skull.
And what is your take on that factoid? I take it you are shocked that a newspaper article might be incomplete, lack knowledge or not reporting all they know? Did anyone know at the time of the interview?
Labcatcher (61737c) — 8/21/2014 @ 3:05 pm“For a swelling on his face, and that probably means treated and released.
Not for a fractured eye socket, which I don’t think you’d do anything more than for a fractured rib.”
Sammy – So what? The nature of the injuries have still not been formally confirmed by the police. At that point the name of the officer involved had not been released. The robbery video was released two days later than this press conference. Your desire for instant complete information is nice but unlikely to be satisfied.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/21/2014 @ 3:05 pmWell now we know Wilson did not have a broken eye socket.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/08/21/darren_wilson_eye_socket_not_broken_by_michael_brown_cnn_says.html
Funny how stories keep changing.
Another party (8e12a4) — 8/21/2014 @ 3:11 pmYes, but some stories do not, do they?
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 8/21/2014 @ 3:12 pmDustin #92: my father was a firefighter, and had many friends on the police department. I heard endless horror stories. The people who are “anti-cop” (which is fine) should do some ride alongs. It’s a scary job. For every jerk on the force, there are many, many good women and men who no one hears about.
Anyway, it used to bug them how folks who had never worked the street would Monday morning quarterback what they should have done.
Heck, there was one huge guy in San Diego (and not on PCP) who was threatening cops with a knife. They tased three times before he went down.
Until we have real stun guns, here we are.
For most of the public, they see too much stuff like the Denny Crane scene.
Appreciate the comment.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 8/21/2014 @ 3:15 pmActually we don’t know that, and considering it’s CNN, they probably don’t either, does it come from the DA, the Atty General or the Justice Department,
narciso (ee1f88) — 8/21/2014 @ 3:20 pm==Not for a fractured eye socket, which I don’t think you’d do anything more than for a fractured rib.==
Sammy, if you bother to search this site there has already been (last night) a fairly detailed multi-contributor discussion on eye socket injuries including comments from one of our resident physicians and from several other people who have seen eye socket injuries first hand in friends and family members. Some eye injuries entailed surgery and long, difficult recoveries. Some are merely a few days of swelling and maybe scary double vision. But none of us know what the real medical situation with the cop is, as daleyrocks and Labcatcher both point out–so lets not waste time over-speculating here. K?
elissa (e9e9a1) — 8/21/2014 @ 3:21 pm95.@sammy said,
Labcatcher (61737c) — 8/21/2014 @ 3:05 pm
And what is your take on that factoid? I take it you are shocked that a newspaper article might be incomplete, lack knowledge or not reporting all they know? Did anyone know at the time of the interview?
It means that is not the source, and it does not confirm it.
Also, unless that was not really serious, it would be something too impprtant for the police chief to leave out. He says a swelling on the side of his face,
Why would you mention that, and leave out a more serious injury?
It was also stated early on that he was punched in the face.
So that would create a hematoma.
But somehow the idea has gotten around thatw as a really,really, powerful blow. It broke his eye socket!
The Gateway Pundit article looks like the only source.
It says “two local St. Louis sources” say police Officer Darren Wilson suffered facial fractures AND “Local St. Louis sources said” he suffered an “orbital blowout fracture to the eye socket.”
More specifically, this is attributed to “a source within the District Attorney’s office” and is said to be confirmed (in its entirety?) by (one person in? TMore than one person in?) the St. Louis County Police.
Sammy Finkelman (3ba0b7) — 8/21/2014 @ 3:22 pmWell now we know Wilson did not have a broken eye socket.
Why is that any more reliable than any other news report?
Art Deco (ee8de5) — 8/21/2014 @ 3:23 pmelissa (e9e9a1) — 8/21/2014 @ 3:21 pm
Some are merely a few days of swelling and maybe scary double vision. But none of us know what the real medical situation with the cop is, as daleyrocks and Labcatcher both point out–so lets not waste time over-speculating here. K?
The odds would be on the less serious side, since swelling was mentioned and nothing else.
Also, “Josie” seemed to indicate he was not in the hospital on the Sunday after this happened.
Sammy Finkelman (3ba0b7) — 8/21/2014 @ 3:25 pmSammy, please, for the sake of your fellow commenters do not go down this road.
elissa (e9e9a1) — 8/21/2014 @ 3:26 pmThe Washington Post also reported that Hospital X-rays of the injury have been submitted to the St. Louis County prosecuting attorney
That would explain why the district attorney’s office was a source for Gateway Pundit.
Now there’s a report that prosecutr’s have not received any medical report.
So it’s only a prosecutor’s interpretation of an X-Ray.
Sammy Finkelman (3ba0b7) — 8/21/2014 @ 3:28 pmDear elissa:
You know better.
http://www.last.fm/music/Bonnie+Raitt/_/The+Boy+Can't+Help+It
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 8/21/2014 @ 3:29 pmBetter to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
ropelight (04f5fa) — 8/21/2014 @ 3:34 pmThe black panther party is going to hand out guns to african american residence of ferguson to protect them selves from police as sharon engle said a second amendment solution to the problem I am sure the bra would approve.
justin (24b2b3) — 8/21/2014 @ 3:45 pmGenerally, we allow people who are being attacked or threatened reasonable and proportionate responses (eg you can’t use deadly force when no deadly force is threatened), but rarely demand that they use the least harmful possible response. These situations change so quickly that we eyeball it and say “Yep, good enough, we see why you did that,” rather than deciding post hoc whether or not a less harmful method of self-defence would have been adequate.
bridget (78d8c8) — 8/21/2014 @ 3:57 pmSammy, this was your question:
Where does this idea that’s floating around come from that the officer was or is in the hospital for treatment of his facial injury?
The Reuters article says he was taken to the hospital and had some facial injury.
So that is what I answered.
If you want to know where the idea came about him having a blow-out fracture, and what that could entail, it came from supposed local sources via Gateway Pundit and we’ve been all over whether that is reliable, why no one else is reporting it, and the medical possibilities of a blow-out fracture as elissa has said.
It seems we have reliable info that Wilson had an ER visit for evaluation of a facial injury. More than that we do not know for sure. In my mind, it shows that there was an altercation, whether the in jury was “serious” or not, and along with the autopsy report indicated the story that Wilson shot a defenseless guy with his hands up is not credible, and we have more to learn,
and that is all for sure.
Steve57, what I meant about the officer not thinking he would have to shoot, I mean at the moment he and his partner get out of their car, both have their guns on the suspect, and tell him to put the knife down, what do you think the officer is going to expect will happen? He is going to expect that no fool is going to walk towards him with a knife to get shot and killed. Now, it may be true that as a well trained cop he is always ready for anything on some level, but still. If I was told there is a patient with a headache in Room A, theoretically I have in my mind a whole list of things to think about as a go into the room; that said, I would probably be surprised if the patient collapsed and turned blue right in front of me, dying from an acutely rupturing cerebral aneurysm.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 8/21/2014 @ 4:08 pmIt’s rare you see a police officer judged by 12 after putting somebody 6 feet under.
Another party (8e12a4) — 8/21/2014 @ 4:08 pmHey, aren’t you one of the usual trolls?
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=police+shooting+investigations
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 8/21/2014 @ 4:11 pmPerry is advocating genocide. Again. And the serial troll is back dropping turdlets. Linking to slate is hysterical.
JD (548f4a) — 8/21/2014 @ 4:22 pmA swollen face is soooooooo much different than a bruised eye.
JD (548f4a) — 8/21/2014 @ 4:24 pmLeftists never cease to amaze me.
JD (548f4a) — 8/21/2014 @ 4:24 pmferguson made all those illegal immigrant children vanish poof
i wonder where they are
glenn beck must be absolutely heartbroken
don’t worry Mr. beck you just send them teddy bears over to Missouri
healing is healing
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/21/2014 @ 4:28 pmThat’s great advice. It’s all too easy to come up with a great way to handle an intense and dangerous and emotional situation… when we sit in our living rooms in perfect safety. And yeah, you’re 100% right that police departments are crammed full of low key people who don’t care who gets the credit for the good they do. Unfortunately, the press can’t sell papers on that sort of story.
Dustin (7f67e8) — 8/21/2014 @ 4:31 pmDustin, my elderly father was a firefighter for many years, and spent most of his career leading a particular fire station, then six fire stations His proudest accomplishment, he told me the other day, was that he never lost a firefighter. Not once.
But no, that kind of accomplishment doesn’t end up in the news.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 8/21/2014 @ 4:34 pm117. happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/21/2014 @ 4:28 pm
ferguson made all those illegal immigrant children vanish poof
By interveniong with the mexican and otehr governments Barack Obama has made the journey more dangerouus and got more of them intercepted along the way and returned to Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala.
Those now in the United states have been put at the head of the line for court dates. Lawyers are scrambling, but succeeding. the process still will not be too fast.
Pretty much everybody else challenging a deportation is now getting a court date in 2016.
Obama will probably drop all the cases.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 8/21/2014 @ 4:37 pm“Also, unless that was not really serious, it would be something too impprtant for the police chief to leave out. He says a swelling on the side of his face,
Why would you mention that, and leave out a more serious injury?”
Sammy – It is personal medical information the police chief had no reason to disclose. For Pete’s sake he was no even disclosing the name of the officer at that point. Why would he disclose detailed medical information? You can calculate all the odds you want, but there is no basis for them. Selective disclosure is what the public is getting from this incident.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/21/2014 @ 4:52 pmthe lawyers get paid no matter what speed they go
these urchins are a freaking cash cow
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/21/2014 @ 4:52 pmSimon,
I checked that google search you suggested, “police and shooting and investigations” and mostly got discussions of how police departments investigate their own shootings.
As my comment pivoted on the idea of police officers being held criminally accountable for killing people I thought a better google search might reference police and shootings and indictments. The best I could get there were these two comments:
“Almost all police involved shootings, while investigated by special units, prosecutor’s offices, or an outside police agency, were investigated by governmental law enforcement personnel. It is perhaps not surprising that more than 95 percent of all police involved shootings were ruled administratively and legally justiified. A handful of cases led to wrongful death lawsuits. Even fewer will result in the criminal prosecution of officers. Critics of the system have called for the establishment of completely independent investigative agencies in cases of police involved shootings.”
http://jimfishertruecrime.blogspot.com/2012/01/police-involved-shootings-2011-annual.html
“Hard numbers are hard to come by, but Levenson and others agreed that it is exceedingly rare for a police officer to be indicted for a homicide committed in the line of duty. Convictions are even rarer. The FBI reported 410 justifiable homicides by law enforcement in 2012. The number of indictments appear to be minimal after a TPM review of available press reports. A 1979 study found three convictions out of the 1,500 police killings it studied over a five-year period.”
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/ferguson-police-officer-shootings-indictments-convictions
But perhaps your google works better than mine and you can find evidence of numerous times when a police officer’s decision not to be carried by six was judged by 12
Another party (8e12a4) — 8/21/2014 @ 5:18 pm== Critics of the system have called for the establishment of completely independent investigative agencies in cases of police involved shootings.”==
And who would oversee, choose, and man the “completely independent investigations” of which you and the critics write? Who pays for it? Who authorizes it? Where does the search, subpoena and arrest authority come from? Who keeps their eye on them?
==“Almost all police involved shootings, while investigated by special units, prosecutor’s offices, or an outside police agency, were investigated by governmental law enforcement personnel.==
Gee, that sounds like pretty much every other alleged shooting crime that is investigated and if deemed appropriate, prosecuted in the United States. Should regular citizens also have the right to an “independent investigation” if they don’t trust “the government” or the law enforcement agencies in their local jurisdiction to do a fair or thorough investigation or honest prosecution?
We already have layers and layers of bureaucracy and multiple departments and jurisdictions of law enforcement throughout the nation. Do we really want to create even more?
elissa (e9e9a1) — 8/21/2014 @ 5:42 pmWe don’t know for sure how serious Officer Wilson’s injury was, however we do know he suffered facial swelling sufficient to require treatment at a local hospital where X-rays were taken (we’ve seen one X-ray reported to show Wilson’s eye socket blowout, but it hasn’t yet been certified).
We know upwards of 50 DoJ hack lawyers are in Ferguson manipulating the media narrative and attempting to suppress exculpatory evidence beneficial to Wilson or damaging to Brown. And, we know a CNN reporter has gone public with a single unnamed source to deny Wilson suffered an eye socket injury.
You connect the dots.
ropelight (04f5fa) — 8/21/2014 @ 5:42 pmhow many autopsies has Officer Wilson had so far?
if you take the average and run a couple recursions you’ll definitively answer this whole question about his injuries
you just gotta run the numbers
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/21/2014 @ 5:47 pm“And, we know a CNN reporter has gone public with a single unnamed source to deny Wilson suffered an eye socket injury.”
ropelight – Don “Automatic Rifle” Lemon?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/21/2014 @ 5:48 pmWhat happened to Hands up, Don.t shoot”?
Steveg (af062e) — 8/21/2014 @ 5:55 pmAnd the rest is technobabble from “science” “experts” telling you mathematical breakdowns of energy transfer and the effects on the body with absolutely no actual experience or large sample testing (which would be difficult to immoral to gather anyway) to actually support their assertions.
Sam (e8f1ad) — 8/21/2014 @ 6:06 pm#127, daily, it was CNN’s Julian Cummings who recently scored a Ride Along with Missouri Highway Patrol’s Ron Johnson (appointed by Governor Nixon to take charge of security in Ferguson immediately after Chief Tom Jackson released the video tape of Brown’s strong-arm robbery).
Cummings describes himself as a professional New Yorker who knows a little bit about a lot of things. He’s a JV player.
ropelight (04f5fa) — 8/21/2014 @ 6:09 pmHey, Another Party (who is Perry, am I right? Or that other creepy troll)….
You want to believe in eevvviiilll cops, okay.
But you might want to talk to some, you know, police officers. Here is an interesting source:
http://jimfishertruecrime.blogspot.com/2012/01/police-involved-shootings-2011-annual.html
That will tell you about the number of people killed by police in a fairly clear way (notice how the statistics are blurred by, um, partisans with an agenda).
And here is the other side of the equation:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/10/us/defying-trends-killings-of-police-officers-are-on-the-rise.html?_r=0
So what you need to do is put away the tiresome OWS attitude, and remember that it is dangerous. Dangerous for criminals, and dangerous for police officers.
But most of all, why troll this site? I’m honestly curious. If you are who I think you are, you have been banned several times. Why come back?
Oh, that’s right: you like to fight. Take that energy and do something productive with it—maybe help people in the communities you seem to feel are so victimized. Some good might come of that. Fighting on the internet? Not so much.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 8/21/2014 @ 6:28 pmRide along with the cops? Thats like saying you should walk around with jewish zondercommandos patrolling the warsaw ghetto for their nazi masters!
justin (7156f5) — 8/21/2014 @ 6:30 pmAnother party is another serial troll. Not the addled Perry. Justin is another. They are all full of hate.
JD (fc9d46) — 8/21/2014 @ 6:43 pmI think all of the folks who don’t like police should start their own municipality with no police and show us how well it works.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 8/21/2014 @ 6:51 pmAllahpundit linked this Patterico thread on Hot Air.
elissa (e9e9a1) — 8/21/2014 @ 6:53 pmMD
it does get tiresome, several dz people threw rocks, flaming bottles at police but its their fault for wearing armor
EPWJ (db4127) — 8/21/2014 @ 6:55 pmamerica’s sick sad union whore police losers made their own reputation
they worked hard to earn it
if they wanna fix it they need to get on it
chop chop
pro-tip: stop gunning down unarmed people, you stupid whores
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/21/2014 @ 6:56 pmwell that is Hobbes’s state of nature, that results, and Ferguson in the first days of protests were the results, Rousseau’s noble savage, really isn’t a thing, we’re finding out,
narciso (ee1f88) — 8/21/2014 @ 7:22 pmA young officer stopped me on my block after work. Seems the heat shield I wired in place has shifted crazily and he’d like me to restore its designed attitude.
We shook hands on goodbye.
I really don’t know what you urban ‘tards are so agitated about.
gary gulrud (46ca75) — 8/21/2014 @ 7:40 pmHere’s something I missed, key witness Dorian Johnson wanted for stealing and filing a false police report?
http://www.abc17news.com/news/key-witness-in-ferguson-wanted-in-jefferson-city/27624066
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/21/2014 @ 8:27 pmdaily, there’s an unsubstantiated rumor floating around which may be related to Johnson’s official entanglements described in your linked report at #140.
Dorian Johnson is reported to have now changed his story and admitted to police that Michael Brown attacked Officer Wilson, grappled with him and attempted to grab his gun.
Again, this is presently only an unverified rumor.
ropelight (04f5fa) — 8/21/2014 @ 8:42 pmHey, daley that should not affect his veracity as a witness in the Ferguson case. The St. Louis Post Dispatch article says he was just a yoot so it was obviously just a yootful indiscretion. I am sure he has outgrown his habit of lying to the police.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/key-witness-meets-with-authorities-to-discuss-brown-shooting/article_3a5a3a2b-96aa-50f1-b9e5-345c29dd80dc.html
elissa (e9e9a1) — 8/21/2014 @ 8:44 pm“The St. Louis Post Dispatch article says he was just a yoot so it was obviously just a yootful indiscretion. I am sure he has outgrown his habit of lying to the police.”
elissa – I am sure you are right. That was 2011. He is undoubtedly tons more mature and law abiding today, except for a little accessory to strong arm robbery, walking in the middle of the street nonsense and maybe other nonsense.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/21/2014 @ 9:06 pmSeems to me anybody could claim to be a CNN reporter and float a trial balloon in a tweet. It also seems to me that particular tweet was tailored to provide a landing for assholes to beat up on Jim Holt safe from countervailing testimony from people like me.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 8/21/2014 @ 9:45 pmHoft oops. Sorry
papertiger (c2d6da) — 8/21/2014 @ 9:46 pmThinking about it a little more, claiming to be a CNN reporter is sort of like introducing yourself as an invenerate liar.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 8/21/2014 @ 10:29 pmI would not shoot 9 times. I would shoot 5 or 7 times, but not 9.
…
My S&W 500mag is a 5-shooter revolver and my Desert Eagle .50 cal has a 7-round magazine.
John Hitchcock (5131d7) — 8/21/2014 @ 11:59 pmThere were 2 cops. Did both cops shoot? 9 shots does seem like quite a few for only one officer, but 9 shots divided between 2 officers doesn’t seem quite so excessive given only a few seconds to stop an aggressively approaching knife wielding assailant.
ropelight (c73b76) — 8/22/2014 @ 4:10 amre: Dorian Johnson, the raw KSDK transcipt is something
http://www.scribd.com/doc/236754541/dorian-johnson-q-a
This before the bews of the robbery came out. The heroic notion of Mike Brown telling him to keep running, the message to the teens of America as a pillar of the community that there’s a better way. The class warfare message of businesses not offering jobs to youths such as himself (is this before he robs them?)
There are obvious mistruths in here vis-a-vis the autopsy by the morgue attendant: point blank at the car, then point blank later.
Kicker for me is the discription of the scene before the cop
We were walking down the street – an empty street. We were just walking down, minding our own
business, having our own conversation, our own laughs, our own memories
“Hey Mike, remember that time 15 minutes ago where you were pushing around a store clerk? Good times”
Hawkins (1fc204) — 8/22/2014 @ 4:49 amHawkins (1fc204) — 8/22/2014 @ 4:49 am
The class warfare message of businesses not offering jobs to youths such as himself (is this before he robs them?)
It’s much easier for employees to steal, than potential customers, so the complaint about people not being hired is legitimate.
But actually this is all boilerplate, and lies.
Sammy Finkelman (3ba0b7) — 8/22/2014 @ 6:27 amI say arm the police with sharks with frickin’ lasers on their heads, cuz that would be:
1) frightening enough to make even the dumbest dumbass drop their weapon
Colonel Haiku (d96d7a) — 8/22/2014 @ 6:40 am2) totally awesome!
DJ: It was around 1:40, 2 o’clock (p.m.).
What’s the purpose of this lie? Any ideas?
Sammy Finkelman (3ba0b7) — 8/22/2014 @ 6:45 amwe were running for two minutes or not that much,
Yeah, Dirian, two minutes is utterly implausible.
Sammy Finkelman (3ba0b7) — 8/22/2014 @ 6:49 amDJ: It was around 1:40, 2 o’clock (p.m.).
What’s the purpose of this lie? Any ideas?
Sammy Finkelman (3ba0b7) — 8/22/2014 @ 6:45 am
Dr. Pepper time?
Colonel Haiku (d96d7a) — 8/22/2014 @ 6:55 amThere were 2 cops. Did both cops shoot? 9 shots does seem like quite a few for only one officer, but 9 shots divided between 2 officers doesn’t seem quite so excessive given only a few seconds to stop an aggressively approaching knife wielding assailant.
The race hustlers and poverty pimps like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson have cried wolf so many times, that any legitimate case of overreaction they might want to focus on — if not exploit — becomes lost in the maze.
If the incident of a guy who presumably has not, moments prior to the cops showing up, robbed a store, mugged a pedestrian, threatened passers-by with a knife but instead is shouting “shoot me” or acting suicidal, and then is shot by cops rather quickly, that at least deserves a reaction of “hmmm.” In effect, it’s like police witnessing a guy on the ledge of a highrise threatening to jump and the cops poking him with a pole to push him over the edge.
That characters like Michael Brown or Trayvon Martin grab all the attention and elicit all the sympathy and “no justice, no peace” emotions from the left in particular, when there are other incidents like the one in St Louis caught on a cell phone, is very ironic.
Mark (14a4db) — 8/22/2014 @ 7:49 amThe shooting starts less than 15 seconds after the cops arrive and step out of their patrol vehicle, and the shooting ends 3 to 4 seconds later. That isn’t much time to evaluate the situation other than to focus on the deadly threat aggressively approaching them.
Notice too, the knife wielding assailant was wearing a loose fitting jacket which would make the use of a tazer unreliable – the darts could easily get caught in the jacket and fail to penetrate the shooter- no penetration no method for delivering a disabling electric shock.
ropelight (c73b76) — 8/22/2014 @ 8:31 amWell, should it be surprising? The writer seems to take it as obvious that this is like 95 percent of coin tosses coming up heads, but it’s far from obvious to me why it isn’t like >99 percent of car crashes being non-fatal.
This is meaningless without knowing how rare it is for a police officer to commit an indictable — let alone convictable — homicide in the linke of duty. On what basis did Levenson and others just assume that this must not be exceedingly rare?
Why would one expect this to happen numerous times? How often do you suppose such a decision should be judged by 12?
For that matter, what are the relevant statistics for non-policemen, who are not known criminals? How often does an ordinary, upstanding citizen, having decided that he’d rather risk being judged by 12 than carried by 6, end up being judged by 12 rather than no-billed by 23 or not even geting that far? I don’t know, but I see no reason to assume most self-defense cases go to trial.
Milhouse (9d71c3) — 8/22/2014 @ 9:31 amMore to the point, no matter how many layers we were to add, they would all, by definition, be “governmental law enforcement personnel”. Indeed the word “governmental” in that phrase is redundant; “law enforcement personnel” are by definition governmental.
Milhouse (9d71c3) — 8/22/2014 @ 9:35 amHands up, don’t rob me.
Milhouse (9d71c3) — 8/22/2014 @ 9:36 amI guess the Washington Post got it wrong to
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/now-there-are-four-sources-officer-darren-wilson-suffered-fractured-eye-socket/
narciso (ee1f88) — 8/22/2014 @ 9:37 amWhat about all the unarmed people who need gunning down, feets? Such as those who are about to kill someone? Or those who appear to a reasonable observer to be armed? Really, what difference does it make whether a person posing a threat to someone’s life or safety is armed or not? Being armed is only relevant when determining whether they are posing such a threat; such a determination is far less likely to be made against unarmed people than against armed ones. Once it has been determined, though, the decision whether to kill them should be the same, shouldn’t it?
Milhouse (9d71c3) — 8/22/2014 @ 9:44 amColonel @151 – Damn, I can’t believe I forgot about the frickin’ sharks!
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/22/2014 @ 9:49 amThe guy on the ledge is no threat to anyone but himself. The guy with the knife was a clear threat to the policemen. If he’s crazy enough to want to die, why would you imagine he’s not also crazy enough to kill someone else? Sure, sometimes these people go out with unloaded or fake guns, so that it turns out after the event that they weren’t really a threat to anyone; but this guy had a knife, so even after the event we have no reason to suppose he wouldn’t have killed a cop.
Milhouse (9d71c3) — 8/22/2014 @ 10:09 amOK, now Hoft has triggered one of my many pet peeves:
No, Jim, if CNN had refuted the report then it wouldn’t be true. CNN denied or contradicted the report. It did not refute or rebut it; doing those things requires presenting evidence against the proposition being refuted or rebutted.
Milhouse (9d71c3) — 8/22/2014 @ 10:16 amwell it wasn’t the latter, because they presented no evidence, Carlos Slim’s advocacy, has mostly confused everyone, whereas it was suppose to make them point to Wilson, like in ‘Body Snatchers’
narciso (ee1f88) — 8/22/2014 @ 10:21 am164. Hoft can’t spell, routinely makes elementary logical errors and hails from some Midwestern dump that never makes news.
That said he’s sorta my splash page. I like the link roll.
gary gulrud (46ca75) — 8/22/2014 @ 10:32 amGunning down people, armed or otherwise, is going to replace the NFL. Concussions did it in.
gary gulrud (46ca75) — 8/22/2014 @ 10:36 am7. Thank heaven for birds keeping the streets clean.
gary gulrud (46ca75) — 8/22/2014 @ 10:42 ampro-tip: stop gunning down unarmed people, you stupid whores
pro-tip: It’s safer to gun down unarmed people you big dummy
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/22/2014 @ 10:55 amGramps, the original (d40b0b) — 8/21/2014 @ 1:43 pm
And for those who earlier in the week were blathering on about how 2-man cars might have, or even would have, made for a better outcome in Ferguson… might you want to re-think that a little?
First of all, with two officers, it is more unlikely that one would have been assaulted, and a grab made for his gun. (if this is what happened)
Secondly, he’d have bene in a position to arrest Michael Brown. One officer points the gun at him, and the ther puts away his gun.
Sammy Finkelman (3ba0b7) — 8/22/2014 @ 11:01 amnarciso (ee1f88) — 8/22/2014 @ 9:37 am
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/now-there-are-four-sources-officer-darren-wilson-suffered-fractured-eye-socket/
But none that it was a serious injury.
Most of sourcing come from the District Attorney’s office, who examined X-rays, and had no medical recors or doctor’s notes. It was diagnosed by somebody on the District Attorney’s office
We have one family friend of Wilson’s who told The Washington Post that Wilson suffered a fractured eye socket, but this information might have come from the District Attorney’s office, not doctors.
Another source says X-rays “came back negative foranyserious injury”
Both claims can be true.
Officer Wilson suffered an orbital blowout fracture, but that injury was not serious, and will heal by itself without treatment.
Sammy Finkelman (3ba0b7) — 8/22/2014 @ 11:53 amUm, Sammy? Would you like to have a large threatening gentleman lean down and give you a “not serious” orbital blowout fracture?
Because you seem awfully sure (as usual) without firsthand knowledge.
Seriously, dude.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 8/22/2014 @ 12:03 pmhttp://www.summitmedicalgroup.com/library/adult_health/oph_orbital_fracture/
A very bad, or tricky, thing would be a “trapdoor fracture” which may trap the muscle that moves the eye down. But it is accompanied by pain, severe double vision and vomiting.
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/867985-overview
So, in all probability it is on the far less serious part of the range.
He may need to be careful about blowing his nose for a while..
Sammy Finkelman (3ba0b7) — 8/22/2014 @ 12:05 pmWow. What the heck is wrong with you, sir? This blog is surely not the first place you have heard people ask you that question.
I mean, do you read your own posts and think about how they might sound to other people?
Anyway, to each their own.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 8/22/2014 @ 12:06 pm172. Simon Jester (c8876d) — 8/22/2014 @ 12:03 pm
Um, Sammy? Would you like to have a large threatening gentleman lean down and give you a “not serious” orbital blowout fracture?
It depends if the alternative is nothing, or a more serious injury.
Because you seem awfully sure (as usual) without firsthand knowledge.
When you put everything together, I think it adds up to a not too serious injury, in terms of function. The way everybody is reacting seems to point to that.
If it was a serious injury, he would be admitted to the hospital for surgery a week or two after the injury, and we do not know really know if that happened or not, but I kind of think that might leak.
Sammy Finkelman (3ba0b7) — 8/22/2014 @ 12:10 pmWe have the autopsy of Brown.
A guy swinging at a cop through the window of a cruiser, hard enough to break bone, is going to have an injury to his hand. Lacerated knuckles at the least. Broken metacarpals possibly.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 8/22/2014 @ 12:13 pmActually, Sammy, you don’t think. You just post. Reactively.
This is nothing new.
But your comments that this is a “not serious” injury demonstrates a genuine lack of self-awareness and empathy for others that is most striking.
To each their own.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 8/22/2014 @ 12:18 pmBTW How is it we have competing versions of autopsy on Mike Brown, and that’s ok to be shown by public officials.
But when you ask a direct question about Wilson’s injuries, which are exculpatory, we get boilerplate about ongoing investigation and no comment?
papertiger (c2d6da) — 8/22/2014 @ 12:30 pmSerious in terms of affecting his life for a reasonably long period of time, or with a strong potential to do so.
This injury was probably relatively minor, although probably there was some pain.
There was certainly a risk of more if the officer’s probable story is true.
Sammy Finkelman (3ba0b7) — 8/22/2014 @ 12:33 pmwhy on earth should anyone have empathy for some random cop in missouri
cops are big boys and if the job wasn’t a wee bit rough then these whiny-assed piggy piggy pansies wouldn’t be retiring at 50 or whatever would they
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/22/2014 @ 12:34 pmThe problem here is we have Al Sharpton and company trying to put their thumbs on the scale of justice by protests demanding a specific result, or coming close to that, and that’s horrible.
Sammy Finkelman (3ba0b7) — 8/22/2014 @ 12:37 pmSigh. I apologize, Sammy. You really aren’t that annoying.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 8/22/2014 @ 12:39 pmAnd you do know, Mr. Feet, that several law enforcement officers read this blog? That some of them are personal friends of Patterico’s? Would you care to address them that way, directly?
Would you like it if, whenever you insulted people, that people called you a “whiney assed pansy who didn’t even bother to vote but still gets to call people names while safely far away?”
Of course not.
I have seen plenty of times you have defended people you don’t know. Being a police officer is dangerous, tough work. There are creeps among them, just as there are among blog posters.
But you and I will never see eye to eye on this.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 8/22/2014 @ 12:43 pm“law enforcement officers” lol
would it were
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/22/2014 @ 12:45 pmSammy at 170 … Have you not been paying attention? Brown had a gun pointed at him the entire time while he advanced on Wilson. The gun was firing and Brown was hit 5 times before the 6th shot put him down. What on earth makes you think that that a second Officer, pointing/firing a gun at him would have made him submit peacefully to arrest by the first Officer?
What do you base your assumption on that with more than one Officer present Brown would be less likely to resist? It certainly is not from personal experience. Some people (bad people) just don’t want to go to jail and will fight as many cops as show up to avoid it. Brown qualified as bad people having just committed a robbery that was likely to land him in prison. Not jail, Prison. For robbery, not forcible shoplifting. Arguments could be made that he did a burglary and/or a grand theft (person). Not sure of Mo laws.
Sammy, just about everything you post is either incorrect, based on assumptions, your estimate of the “odds” and bears little to no resemblance to real life. You take pains to contradict or contest every statement made by people that apparently know of what they speak, Gramps is a prime example of that.
Labcatcher (61737c) — 8/22/2014 @ 12:58 pmIf it was a serious injury, he would be admitted to the hospital for surgery a week or two after the injury, and we do not know really know if that happened or not, but I kind of think that might leak.
Sammy Finkelman (3ba0b7) — 8/22/2014 @ 12:10 pm
Sammy, I know less about blow-out fractures than I do Ebola, but I still think I know more than you (I should, I spent enough years in med school and residency).
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 8/22/2014 @ 12:58 pmThe thing I remember about blow-out fractures (never had a patient with one), is that the main concern is whether or not one or more of the “extra-ocular muscles” gets entrapped in the fracture. If so, the eye will not be able to move as it should (specifically, it will not be able to gaze upwards). If this is so, it calls for surgery to release the trapped muscle.
If that has not happened, and no other complicating injury has occurred, there is no need for surgery.
Like a rib fracture, unless the rib fracture has separated, especially if it has caused a collapsed lung, there is nothing else to do, but that doesn’t mean that Rocky Balboa didn’t just land a punch that crunched the bones of a side of beef in the slaughterhouse.
why on earth should anyone have empathy for some random cop in missouri
They provide a public service as opposed to SSM publicity seeker what try to bludgeon legitimate businesses cuz of their religious beliefs is one reason.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/22/2014 @ 1:06 pm“If it was a serious injury, he would be admitted to the hospital for surgery a week or two after the injury”
Sammy – Do you have a link to the treatment protocols for the injury or are you just spitballing here?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/22/2014 @ 1:08 pmyes we’ve seen oodles of examples of the public service these losers provide in fergville
color me unempathetic
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/22/2014 @ 1:09 pmgriefin like nishi
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/22/2014 @ 1:12 pmSammy, I had a 12 hour 2 disc back surgery and was on my feet the next day and out of the hospital the following day. A friend of mine had a quadruple bypass surgery and was out in a week. How would you know how long a serious injury would need to be in the hospital? They just get you out of there asap.
You should just be quiet for a while and let the grownups talk.
Labcatcher (61737c) — 8/22/2014 @ 1:17 pmyou flatter me
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/22/2014 @ 1:17 pmThe only Brown autopsy report I’ve seen came from the Brown family, which I suppose has the right to access the ME’s results, and to release them if they like. Now if I were them and I saw that the results were not favourable to my narrative I’d tell my hired analysts to shut up and pretend the examination never happened, but I guess they’re stupid.
Wilson is entitled to release his medical reports, if he likes, but I guess he doesn’t like, and I’m sure his lawyer doesn’t like.
Milhouse (7999ec) — 8/22/2014 @ 1:20 pmBecause he’s a human being, so far as we know a good one, and he’s got confirmed savages howling for his blood. Any normal person would feel something for him, cop or not.
This is true. They are well paid for what is, at the end of the day, not that dangerous a job. And they whine about how dangerous it is, making it out to be much more dangerous than it is. But this cop seems to have earned his pay, so he of all cops deserves our goodwill.
Milhouse (7999ec) — 8/22/2014 @ 1:23 pmThe Entitlement class are pawns of the failed Soviet. The Bourgeoisie can no longer keep the State afloat so its Scorched Earth here on out.
The Politburo plans on being the survivor of account but their plans are sorta sketchy.
No word from Vegas on the principals’ odds but Ferguson and their kind look to be big losers.
gary gulrud (46ca75) — 8/22/2014 @ 1:24 pmTravon Martin and Mike Brown are just the first in a carpet of woe.
gary gulrud (46ca75) — 8/22/2014 @ 1:27 pmwhy on earth should anyone have empathy for some random cop in missouri
cops are big boys and if the job wasn’t a wee bit rough then these whiny-assed piggy piggy pansies wouldn’t be retiring at 50 or whatever would they
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/22/2014 @ 12:34 pm
My empathy for Wilson is profound. I never had to kill an unarmed teen, but with all the gang bangers and dopers it was always a possibility. No cop wants to kill someone, regardless of what you think. Cops have families, friends and want to live a normal life. Wilson is never going to forget this incident, never. He will regret it for the rest of his life and not only because of the likes of Sharpton and Jackson. I am sure that he never wanted to kill someone, even this gigantic robbery suspect. Much like Rodney King, if Brown had followed instructions he would be alive today. Get off of this slamming the cops, it’s not necessary, everyone here knows you don’t like them.
Labcatcher (61737c) — 8/22/2014 @ 1:31 pmPutting down rioters is a public service. Putting them down permanently would be a better one, but I guess they’re not that dedicated after all.
Milhouse (7999ec) — 8/22/2014 @ 1:32 pmYou’re probably right that he will regret it, but he shouldn’t. He made the world a better place. Even if it turns out that he murdered him in cold blood, and deserves the death penalty, he still made the world a better place. If, as appears to be the case, the shooting was lawful, then he certainly shouldn’t regret it, and should if necessary find a therapist to help him erase any feelings of guilt he has about it. But I agree with you that he probably will regret it and feel guilty, not just about it but also about the riots and all the suffering they have caused, even though they’re not his fault at all.
Milhouse (7999ec) — 8/22/2014 @ 1:37 pmit sounds like your empathy for this Wilson character is cause of you find it easy to imagine having been in the same situation he was in Mr. Labcatcher
whereas for me it is very difficult to imagine
but yes it is necessary to slam the cops cause that’s the only way they’re ever gonna change
it’s like how Mitch McConnell is acting all super-conservative these days
it’s cause of people got all up in his face and told him how the cow ate the cabbage
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/22/2014 @ 1:39 pmMilhouse 193
I don’t know if Brown has medical privacy rights after death. He was an adult so the parents have no say.
With all that’s going on I think Wilson would be foolish to give anybody anything he didn’t absolutely have to. He was likely ordered to tell his investigators what happened.
With Holder on the scene and with his stated agenda, would you say or release anything prior to trial?
Labcatcher (61737c) — 8/22/2014 @ 1:42 pmThen you need to work on your imaginings, Mr Feet. It’s not difficult, just exercise that sympathy muscle a little bit each day, start small cuz you don’t want to strain it, maybe you can start by imagining that you’re walking down the street carrying a gun and minding your own business, then the next day you can imagine that there is a couple of punks sauntering down the street blocking traffic and you say hey, get out of the road, and then the next day you can imagine one of them punching you in the eye, and I think you get my drift.
Milhouse (7999ec) — 8/22/2014 @ 1:45 pmHappyfeet at 200,
You are right, I do know and you don’t. You are slamming them to effect change? How does that work, is it better than constructive criticism?
What change do you want? In 2012 there were 12 million arrests, with 420 or so police involved shootings. Less than a tenth of a percent. Those are FBI stats and they do know how to do stats.
So tell me, what do you want to change?
Labcatcher (61737c) — 8/22/2014 @ 1:48 pm“the Brown family, which I suppose has the right to access the ME’s results”
The family autopsy was not done by an ME but a private non-MD character who is an embarrassment to pathologists in Missouri.
“He is doing forensic autopsies which may send someone to prison, and he is not a physician, much less a forensic pathologist,” she told TheDC, adding that forensic pathologists and medical examiners throughout the U.S. “are shocked by this man and how bold he is to do what he does.”
“No one stops him,” she said.”
It has been reported that Baden, who signed the report, was not even present.
Mike K (90dfdc) — 8/22/2014 @ 1:49 pmand in turn the popo can imagine putting together a powerpoint deck what shows how there’s an unexploited opportunity in the ready-to-eat soup category among health-conscious unacculturated hispanics
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/22/2014 @ 1:50 pmMr. Labcatcher i want police to be deserving of respect and also I want them to think of themselves as part of the society they are charged with serving and protecting and i want police out of the revenue-generating business and i want them to be honest not like the rampart ones and i want them to be kind to animals, which means they have to stop shooting them in their fuzzy little heads
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/22/2014 @ 1:52 pmthat’s for starters
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/22/2014 @ 1:54 pmI thought there was only one autopsy, and the pathologist the family hired simply examined the ME’s results and prepared a report from them.
As for Parcells, I’m not convinced the complaints about him are anything but credentialism. “Performing an autopsy” doesn’t mean the dissection but the analysis; there’s no reason he can’t do the dissection himself and then have a qualified pathologist review his results and interpret them. In this case, he doesn’t seem to have done anything but PR.
Milhouse (7999ec) — 8/22/2014 @ 1:59 pmSorry, feets, the kind of little fuzzy animals that urban police are likely to encounter (other than dogs) often need shooting.
Milhouse (7999ec) — 8/22/2014 @ 2:06 pmIsn’t it rather cunning how Ogabe has set up the Local establishment as oppressors of the ghetto dwellers.
He’s playing both sides maximizing the ennui.
gary gulrud (46ca75) — 8/22/2014 @ 2:14 pmPolice report: (apparently only gives the time – Darren Wilson apparently never wrote up a full report, although he may have been questioned later.)
http://www.aclu-mo.org/download_file/view_inline/1267/535/
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 8/22/2014 @ 2:19 pmThey do deserve respect for what they have to put up with. People like you don’t thumped when they spout their drivel during a traffic stop. That takes some forbearance.
Part of society? Do you suppose that they go to a compound after work, forgoing living in a neighborhood, coaching pop warner, little league and even for some of the younger guys, soccer? They are members of churches, volunteer at school events and host sleep overs which allow a lot of the neighbors a night free of worry about what their child is doing.
Revenue generating means traffic tickets? If so, think about this for a second. Officer writes a ticket. Supervisor checks it for errors and to ensure that the violator didn’t sign, “mickey mouse”. The ticket goes to a clerk who enters it into the department stats. It then get transported over to the courthouse for entry into their systems and the DMV data base. A different clerk then files it by name until the court date and then the hearing. That involves a bailiff, court clerk and a judge. Doesn’t sound like a cost effective system to me.
If people controlled their animals and didn’t make them aggressive, they wouldn’t and don’t get shot. In 28+ years I never shot a dog or a cat and can’t think of a one when i was working. People like Balko make it sound like it’s a daily occurrence, it’s not.
Rampart, yes Rampart. The times made quite a production out of that, didn’t they? Did you know that on 4-19-1971 the last class started through the LAPD academy under the old strict standards? A federal judge decided that awarding extra points for military service on the entrance oral was unfair, as were the restrictions on arrests and height and weight requirements? The written test was deemed too difficult or the qualifying score was too high, I forget which, so that was lowered as well. Guess after which date the people involved in Rampart were hired?
happy feet, bad stuff happens, just not as much as you hear as when compared to the good stuff that you don’t hear about.
Labcatcher (61737c) — 8/22/2014 @ 2:21 pm“If it was a serious injury, he would be admitted to the hospital for surgery a week or two after the injury”
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/22/2014 @ 1:08 pm
Sammy – Do you have a link to the treatment protocols for the injury or are you just spitballing here?
It said on one of the web sites I found they would wait in order for the swelling to go down. This makes sense.
Here’s another example:
http://klapperplasticsurgery.com/pagesroot/Pages/Problem.aspx?p=Trauma-Orbit&m=Trauma
Also see:
http://www.nature.com/eye/journal/v20/n10/full/6702384a.html
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 8/22/2014 @ 2:30 pmi’m always super nice to cops cause they scare me Mr. Labcatcher
plus Mr. Jeff at PW had a neighbor that was of the cop persuasion and he was mean
Revenue generating for example means that copdouche in burbank what stopped NG one day when she was innocently driving to the Gap Outlet Store cause he said she disrespected his authority by not stopping while he helped a homeless person across the street and so he wrote her a $500 ticket
god bless america
I applaud how you never shooted any animals. But that just means all the other cops had to work harder to meet quota.
Rampart is scary they totally framed people what were innocent.
That guy said that one time how you have to go to war with the army you have.
But the prospect of us having to confront a burgeoningly fascist America with the police we have at present is…
unsettling.
They need to go the extra mile cause they’re losing hearts and minds by the bushel and this party hasn’t even gotten started.
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/22/2014 @ 2:38 pmFrom the New York Daily news this past Sunday:
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/neighborhood-eric-garner-died-worse-landlord-article-1.1905990
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 8/22/2014 @ 2:44 pmApropos of nothing, cops don’t even make the top ten of dangerous jobs per Forbes. Nor firefighters.
The 10 Deadliest Jobs:
1. Logging workers
Gazzer (b21aba) — 8/22/2014 @ 2:46 pm2. Fishers and related fishing workers
3. Aircraft pilot and flight engineers
4. Roofers
5. Structural iron and steel workers
6. Refuse and recyclable material collectors
7. Electrical power-line installers and repairers
8. Drivers/sales workers and truck drivers
9. Farmers, ranchers, and other agricultural managers
10. Construction laborers
aircraft pilot really?
nobody tells me anything I’d have told you that was one of the safest i think
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/22/2014 @ 2:50 pmhappy feet, you can cherry pick isolated incidents all day long, address the overwhelming majority.
No incidents, good or bad that you were there for?
Labcatcher (61737c) — 8/22/2014 @ 2:56 pmCome on, now you’re not telling the truth, and we all know it. Traffic police are given (illegal and unofficial but absolutely real) quotas, and cities budget for the revenue they generate. You can deny it all you like, but it’s still true.
Maybe not for you, but there have been numerous reports confirming that it’s standard procedure for SWAT teams.
Milhouse (7999ec) — 8/22/2014 @ 2:56 pmFeets, I agree with you about cops as a class, but it seems to me that you are reasoning from the general to the particular, assuming that since something is true of cops as a class it must be true about any individual cop. That is an invalid use of statistics, exactly as it is when one does the same thing with black people. Statements that are true of black people as a class are not therefore true of every specific black person.
Milhouse (7999ec) — 8/22/2014 @ 3:02 pmcome think of it, Mr jeff didn’t get along with his neighbor? So what? that’s stupid.
somebody got a ticket for “disrespected his authority by not stopping while he helped a homeless person across the street and so he wrote her a $500 ticket” BS, there is no disrespecting authority in calif veh or penal code.
as to losing hearts and minds by the bushel, I think your perception is skewed by the birds of a feather syndrome, you guys feed on each other.
Labcatcher (61737c) — 8/22/2014 @ 3:03 pmMr. Labcatcher that’s not fair, especially since I take great care to fly under the popo radar
but also cause this is a crisis of confidence
and I don’t have confidence in America’s police
i think they’re very sketchy individuals who trample on people’s rights and then laugh maniacally
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/22/2014 @ 3:04 pm186 seems to sum it up.
Sammy Finkelman (13370e) — 8/22/2014 @ 3:04 pmTell that to your fellow pigs. Too many of them firmly believe that that is illegal. That isn’t what they write on the ticket, of course; they put something else down, whatever they think of, but disrespecting their authoritah is the real offense.
Milhouse (7999ec) — 8/22/2014 @ 3:08 pmhere’s the code the burbtard motorcycle popo nailed her for
http://tinyurl.com/nawso9c
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/22/2014 @ 3:12 pmThey demand respect but they rarely earn it. Very over used word these days that not many really comprehend.
Gazzer (b21aba) — 8/22/2014 @ 3:12 pmin this case the “vehicle” she overtook was the burbtard’s little motorscooter and the pedestrian was a nasty crazy person meandering around on the other side of the street
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/22/2014 @ 3:16 pmLabcatcher (61737c) — 8/22/2014 @ 12:58 pm
Brown had a gun pointed at him the entire time while he advanced on Wilson. The gun was firing and Brown was hit 5 times before the 6th shot put him down. What on earth makes you think that that a second Officer, pointing/firing a gun at him would have made him submit peacefully to arrest by the first Officer? We don’t actually have Wilson’s story.
What do you base your assumption on that with more than one Officer present Brown would be less likely to resist?
It is also reported that he started running after the first shot was fired (amazingly, Dorain Wilson claimed on the radio, they ran for two minutes!)
Also that he stopped when Officer Wilson said “Freeze”
It is reasonable to suppose that Michael Brown only attempted to do something where he thought he had a chance of prevailing. There were limits to his resisting.
He might have thought he could get to Officer Wilson and knock him down faster than Wilson could fire his gun accurately. That does not mean he would try to take on two cops.
It certainly is not from personal experience. Some people (bad people) just don’t want to go to jail and will fight as many cops as show up to avoid it. Brown qualified as bad people having just committed a robbery that was likely to land him in prison. Not jail, Prison. For robbery, not forcible shoplifting.
Milhouse has said he was awaiting trial on some other charge. If so, he was probably out on bail (or on his own recognizance) and bail might be revoked, so he’d stay in jail. He was supposed to start college the next day, so perhaps that might be a strong motivating factor.
There is also the possibility that he’d recently committed (but not as recently as the theft of the cigars) some other very serious crime that we don’t know about.
But he might not be ready to commit suicide.
Sammy Finkelman (13370e) — 8/22/2014 @ 3:18 pmOr he was on something, and all bets are off.
Milhouse (7999ec) — 8/22/2014 @ 3:22 pmDorrian Johnson: Me and my daughter and her mother, we’re homeless now. Due to the situation, I can’t even find or get time to find us a place to lay our heads
But, a little later:
like I said I live with my daughter and her mother, and I didn’t want them to have go through a horrific situation of people busting through our door late at night while we are sleeping and drag me out of my bed or anything like that. And, I just had to figure out a way to get us to a safe place as soon as possible.
FF: And you are in a safe place now?
DJ: Correct. I am definitely safe and well protected.
Probably coached, too.
Sammy Finkelman (13370e) — 8/22/2014 @ 3:25 pmMillhouse, Don’t accuse me of not telling the truth. If you know that a citation is processed some other way, I would like to know it. The county and state get their share of the loot too. There just isn’t a big money upside to traffic enforcement.
As to passing a vehicle stopped for someone in a crosswalk, I don’t see a problem with that, happy feet said that’s what his friend did, a motor cop would write that regardless of who was stopped. Seems like the friend was kinda stupid to pass a cop stopped for a per in the x walk.
So your contention is that a cop will stop someone for a violation and only write them if they disrespect them? Why do you think they stopped them, to pass the time of day? They put something else down? You mean they make up a random violation and cite them for that? They are willing to commit perjury for somebody they don’t know saying something bad to them? Willing to lose their job or go to jail and ruin the rest of their life. How many times has this happened to you, you personally. Not anecdotally, but to you.
I will tell you this though, lots of times people will get stopped to be advised about something, defective taillights, headlights, whatever, and then talk themselves into a ticket and sometimes into jail. You were right the other day, you don’t have to be polite or do what the Officer says. By the same token, an Officer doesn’t have to let anything slide. They can enforce the letter of the law, which is a pain in the ass for both officer and citizen.
Labcatcher (61737c) — 8/22/2014 @ 4:45 pmsammy , You said
It is reasonable to suppose that Michael Brown only attempted to do something where he thought he had a chance of prevailing. There were limits to his resisting.
He might have thought he could get to Officer Wilson and knock him down faster than Wilson could fire his gun accurately. That does not mean he would try to take on two cops.
Again you are saying something is reasonable to suppose as if Brown is a reasonable person. He is a felon, he had just committed a prison type offense. He had a gun pointed at him. I would think that most people would find that not a win type situation but he was facing a prison charge. Two Officers might have deterred him but probably not. At best he would have taken foot bail.
He was not getting out of jail without a high bail, he just committed a high grade felony
Labcatcher (61737c) — 8/22/2014 @ 4:53 pmthere was no crosswalk
but my point is that a $500 ticket is ridiculous and it signifies to me that burbank is a loser-asssed also-ran nothingberg what uses its trashy fat-ass overwhelmingly white police thugs primarily to raise money
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/22/2014 @ 5:00 pmThe curb is no place to litigate. But … here’s the list of the $135.00 total mandatory costs and fees assessed on top of the fine in Cook County. http://www.cookcountycourt.org/Manage/DivisionOrders/ViewDivisionOrder/tabid/298/ArticleId/344/GENERAL-ADMINISTRATIVE-ORDER-NO-08-03-MANDATORY-FEES-AND-COSTS.aspx These pay the administrative costs. The fine is gravy for the issuing authority. Illinois has speed trap issues. Serious ones. One village has been sued by the state attorney general (Lisa Madigan believe or not) for it. The legislature has acted several times, including imposing a state-wide uniform traffic code and mandating that it preempts local codes and, recently, abolishing ticket quotas by making it illegal for police departments to use the number of traffic citations issued by a police officer as part of the evaluations of an officer’s job performance.
nk (dbc370) — 8/22/2014 @ 5:00 pm*loser-assed* i mean
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/22/2014 @ 5:04 pmhappy feet if there was no x walk that is the wrong section. Do you think the police assess the fines? Cops have nothing to do with that, that’s the court’s job.
Labcatcher (61737c) — 8/22/2014 @ 8:07 pmthat was the code
maybe that’s why the cop didn’t show in court
but i think when a cop hands out a $500 fine he’s morally complicit for the damage that does
it’s not something that would ruin NG’s month but lots of people here in los angeles, it really would
people are catching on to these sleazy Burbtard cops ways though
http://tinyurl.com/lnjnryo
when google’s driverless car comes online, all hell is gonna break loose
for all too many cities, that’s their sweet sweet slop trough google’s messing with
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/22/2014 @ 8:46 pmcops’ ways i mean
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/22/2014 @ 8:46 pmThis thread has shown me more reasons why I have absolutely zero respect for the juvenile sophist known as happyfeet. There is, to my mind, almost nothing of redeeming value to anything the sophist posts. And his/her prepubescent way of posting, far from being welcoming, is very off-putting.
John Hitchcock (5131d7) — 8/22/2014 @ 10:31 pmWhite police thugs??? Sounds like bigoted RACIST STEREOTYPING to me. Wow.
Gus (70b624) — 8/22/2014 @ 10:35 pmHF is very definitely bigoted in a great many points. Disease-addled is more to the point.
John Hitchcock (5131d7) — 8/22/2014 @ 10:41 pmJohn Hitchcock, I rarely post here anymore, because nonsense is often give equal treatment to logic. Happyfeet is entitled to his/her opinions. Historically and Constitutionally we heretofore ALL HAVE BEEN. But when Race based opinion,coupled with a disdain for “Cops” also by virtue of the DNA and Skin color they have, is considered rational discourse. We are done. We a in a Planet of the Apes, Darwinian struggle to eliminate those we disagree with. It’s NOT ok, to express disdain for single Baby Mama’s with 4,5,6 or more children, and a moral code that has no ENIGMA MACHINE to decipher. Yet, it’s ok to JUDGE, “WHITE COPS AS RACIST THUGS”. There is no position for common ground.
Gus (70b624) — 8/22/2014 @ 10:52 pmI still think American cops need to buckle down and clean up their act even if you call me names Mr. Hitchcock but you know what I won’t do?
i won’t withhold from you my recipe for tapatio mayonnaise
ok here is what you will need
* tapatio
* mayonnaise
what i usually do is put some mayo in a compote and then pour on a liberal amount of tapatio
then I mixer it all up
then i add more tapatio!
and mix some more until smooth
i use it on those turkey burger patties mostly, which are one of my go-to staples when I’m doing the low carb thing
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/22/2014 @ 11:00 pmMr. Gus I think you are making a non sequitur about us being done there, which is not to say we’re not done
cops are for reals god-awfully racist here in Los Angeles (so are the firemens btw)
it’s a thing, and I suspect it’s not just an LA thing
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/22/2014 @ 11:04 pmJohn H & Gus
I rarely post unless it’s an issue I know something about. Happyfeet and Sammy will comment on just about anything and usually have no knowledge. They have caused me to stop reading comments on any issue, their comments seem to misinform instead of inform. It would be easier if the commentors name was at the top of the comment so you could know which ones to ignore.
Labcatcher (61737c) — 8/23/2014 @ 4:48 ampikachu gets irrational when he doesn’t get his cupcake ration:
http://hotair.com/archives/2014/08/22/cnn-getting-a-conviction-against-darren-wilson-an-immense-uphill-battle/
narciso (ee1f88) — 8/23/2014 @ 6:51 am246. It’s hard to keep the fuse ignition distinct and in view for the explosion.
gary gulrud (46ca75) — 8/23/2014 @ 7:16 amOgabe is considering joining with Assad to bomb the people(sic) he’s arming to assassinate purveyor of genocide Assad. Strange bedfellows.
75,000 slum dwellers in Liberia are are quarantined until they all expire.
Russian humanitarians are shelling from inside Ukraine.
Japan is kicking about on her noose in the throes of death and the EU stands on the chair with the noose about her neck.
I’d say there’s reason to be anxious and panicky.
gary gulrud (46ca75) — 8/23/2014 @ 7:23 amSammy… if I could, I’d give you Indian Rug Burns on both of you arms it would take years for you to recover from.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/23/2014 @ 7:46 amThere is a way to edit out posts you do not want to see. I never downloaded it as I usually can ignore posts from people I don’t want to read.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 8/23/2014 @ 7:51 amMaybe someone who knows the software I am talking about will see this and will put the info out once again in case some readers would like to use it.
Nothin’ like a pink belly to drive the point home.
ropelight (3a57b5) — 8/23/2014 @ 7:52 amHappyfeet and Sammy will comment on just about anything and usually have no knowledge
They’re interesting to me as textbooks examples of people who have squish-squish embedded in their way of thinking about and looking at issues. Sort of like ideological Sybils, folks along their lines are why the outcome of an election can’t be easily determined or guaranteed until the last minute.
By the way, Ronald Reagan’s and the two Bush’s biggest blunders can be traced to when they allowed squish-squish to get the better of them—or generally liberal instincts, although I guess a leftist can be squishy, but where instead he or she will lean right on occasion. Consequently, there were secret negotiations with hostage-taking Iran, tolerance of bloated budgets, naivete about illegal immigration and far too much gullibility about the possible left-leaning biases of nominees to the Supreme Court, etc.
Simply put, liberal biases in most cases tend to make people foolish.
Mark (14a4db) — 8/23/2014 @ 8:18 ami wish we could have avatars cause i like avatars
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/23/2014 @ 8:20 amand I don’t have confidence in America’s police
i think they’re very sketchy individuals who trample on people’s rights and then laugh maniacally
happyfeet, that generalization reminds me of your dismissal of people who are against same-sex marriage as being trailer-park trash, or something like that. Moreover, just as you often use the word “gay” pejoratively, I’d like to see you be as similarly cynical or two-faced in regards to law enforcement if you moved to a part of LA (or urban America in general) where the local major street is named “Martin Luther King Boulevard.”
Incidentally, cops are members of the public sector, so you won’t see me blindly waxing poetic about them, always giving them the benefit of the doubt. Also, what I’m very fearful of is, as the US becomes more and more like a northern version of Mexico (politically and demographically), we very well could end up with huge numbers of police officers who are as notoriously crooked here as they are there.
Mark (14a4db) — 8/23/2014 @ 8:31 amFerguson and the Modern Debtor’s Prison
here’s a story one of our p wizzle friends found
no real wonder kids in Ferguson have no respect for their precious precious popo huh
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/23/2014 @ 8:33 ami couldn’t even tell you where our MLK street is
we’re kinda more Cesar Chavez people here where i live
uvas no
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/23/2014 @ 8:34 amBy the latest FBI stats… 2648 black men were murdered in 2012. Of that number, 2412 were by black folks… not by whites or white cops.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/23/2014 @ 9:24 amMLK..the boulevard of broken dreams..666 Sunset Strip…the happiest plsce[street on earth}don’t worry Jake/ it’s only Chinatown
pdbuttons (944767) — 8/23/2014 @ 9:36 amgood morning Mr. buttons it’s nice to see you
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/23/2014 @ 9:49 amhere’s a story one of our p wizzle friends found
Despite Ferguson’s relative poverty, fines and court fees comprise the second largest source of revenue for the city, a total of $2,635,400. In 2013, the Ferguson Municipal Court disposed of 24,532 warrants and 12,018 cases, or about 3 warrants and 1.5 cases per household.
no real wonder kids in Ferguson have no respect for their precious precious popo huh
happy feet, all those stats tell me is that there are a lot of people who break the law, don’t honor their promise to appear and are too dumb to realize that they need to take care of the arrest or citation before it turns into a warrant and the price goes way up.
Labcatcher (61737c) — 8/23/2014 @ 12:35 pmtells me Ferguson is a racket
happyfeet (865603) — 8/23/2014 @ 12:51 pmTells me 12% of the population is committing 60% of the violent crime.
ropelight (3a57b5) — 8/23/2014 @ 1:21 pmthat’s only if you use maths
happyfeet (865603) — 8/23/2014 @ 1:23 pmmath is racist.
(and hard, too. %-)
redc1c4 (abd49e) — 8/23/2014 @ 1:24 pmthe reason traffic tickets in #Failifornia are so expensive is not because of the fine itself, but because the Legislature has loaded all sorts of fees & assessments in on top of the original fine, to the point where there may be ~$20 of them for every $1 of actual fine.
hey! that free stuff isn’t going to pay for itself, and we have to have free stuff.
redc1c4 (abd49e) — 8/23/2014 @ 1:31 pmLabcatcher, they are two of the reasons (plus Perry, etc) I was unhappy that the greasemonkey script for this site was broken. Patterico’s computer guy was going to look at the script to see if it could be reconstituted, but I’ve heard nothing so assume either real life got him or it would take more time than it was worth to him. The threads were much easier to read with the script.
Roy in Nipomo (8c3b61) — 8/23/2014 @ 5:17 pmthis Legislature sounds like bad news Mr. red
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/23/2014 @ 5:22 pmnot too many pikachus over there, must be the lack of cupcakes,
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/darren-wilson-supporters-bash-mainstream-media-in-first-public-statement/
narciso (ee1f88) — 8/23/2014 @ 6:09 pmWe had a discussion about Ferguson’s income a few threads ago. I am not sure what those statistics really mean.
And we couldn’t figure out what “court fees” were (they were something distinct from fines)
Sammy Finkelman (13370e) — 8/23/2014 @ 7:21 pm250. Courage.
gary gulrud (46ca75) — 8/23/2014 @ 7:38 pmI’m thinking those that are pushing for prosecution of Wilson know Ferguson won’t have a police department it they do.
gary gulrud (46ca75) — 8/23/2014 @ 7:43 pmit’s stupid how it never rains here
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/23/2014 @ 7:55 pmit’s quite the opposite over here, it’s a little like Costa Rica,
narciso (ee1f88) — 8/23/2014 @ 8:05 pmif the rain won’t come to the pikachu then the pikachu must go to the rain
so it is written
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/23/2014 @ 8:13 pmThat was before the redesign of this site. I never got around to rewriting it to work with the new design, and truth to tell Javascript is not my strongest point.
Milhouse (9d71c3) — 8/23/2014 @ 8:37 pmHere’s more on how Ferguson abuses court fees and fines to raise revenue.
Milhouse (9d71c3) — 8/23/2014 @ 9:08 pmRe: Rain.
The SOI, agent of Pacific Climate change has been stuck for months in a narrow range of neutral conditions, neither favoring El Nino nor La Nina.
Not that climate is well understood, its just don’t expect change until the SOI makes a move.
gary gulrud (46ca75) — 8/23/2014 @ 9:16 pm275. Although I might be in the next tier of ‘least welcome read’ the problem with the whole notion of bowdlerizing the blog is in precluding
“as iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another”.
gary gulrud (46ca75) — 8/23/2014 @ 9:20 pmThere are some commenters who don’t sharpen anybody, becuase their comments are not just wrong-headed, but incoherent. Attempting to read them only blunts one’s mind, not sharpens it. C a r o l H e r m a n, for instance.
Milhouse (9d71c3) — 8/23/2014 @ 9:43 pmreservoirs get warmer as they get lower
to where the little fishes can die and plus also the water evaporates that much faster
fortunately i guess it hasn’t been a super-hot summer so far
but it’s not uncommon for the peak of summer to hit in September out here
happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/23/2014 @ 9:53 pm