Congress at Work
[guest post by Dana]
Retiring veteran Virginia *Democrat Senator Congressman Jim Moran wants to reinstate a per diem for members of Congress who are currently being forced to sleep in their offices because of the high cost of living in the Capitol.
As such, Moran plans to propose an amendment be added to the 2015 legislative branch spending bill, given the proposed bill seeks to continue a freeze on lawmaker salaries. The freeze has been in place since 2010, thus current annual salaries remain fixed at $174,000.
Not yet having lost all of his senses, Moran understands that given Americans current **disapproval of Congress, they would be less than supportive of any salary hikes at this time.
According to Moran,
I understand that is widely felt that [members] underperform, but the fact is that this is the board of directors for the largest economic entity in the world and a lot of members can even afford to live decently when they are at their job in Washington.
Bringing the commonsense, South Carolina Republican congressman Trey Gowdy reprimanded Democrat Moran for suggesting lawmakers on Capitol Hill are underpaid. He believes Moran should be “embarrassed,” and that the House of Representatives is “grossly overcompensated.”
He further added,
I know a lot of people in the world that are underpaid — in fact I live with one, who’s a schoolteacher. But members of Congress are incredibly blessed and well-fortunate to have the jobs that we have. Nobody makes us run! Every two years we offer for public office, and if you don’t want to do it then don’t run.
But the notion that you can make $174,000 in this country and be underpaid is laughable. We are better off than 99.9 percent of the people we claim to work for. And I would be embarrassed to say that — given our job performance and our salary — that we are anything other than grossly overcompensated.
*It should be noted that Democrat Moran has been accused of using his position in Congress for his own financial gain.
**Current approval rating of Congress remains stagnant.
–Dana
Correction noted re Jim Moran’s title.
This seems flatly wrong. Whether you’re being underpaid is about whether you could justify better compensation based on the current market. A person making millions each year could still be underpaid.
The question isn’t about being underpaid, it’s what the hell do you need a per diem for if you’re making $174,000 a year?
The salary includes, I imagine, compensation for having to go to the Capitol and do your job. If a member of Congress decides to minimize personal expenses by staying at the office instead of renting or maintaining housing, how does that entitle them to a per diem?
If the notion is that going to the Capitol entitles a member of Congress to a per diem–say, like an employee who is sent to a trade show or conference might be entitled to a per diem–then why doesn’t every member of Congress get a per diem? Why should the choice of housing affect per diem?
CliveStaples (bfc68d) — 4/5/2014 @ 10:08 amHe lost his meal ticket,
http://yidwithlid.blogspot.com/2009/10/new-scandal-murtha-and-moran-donors-get.html
narciso (3fec35) — 4/5/2014 @ 10:08 amMoran is a maroon. Cursed by his ancestry, he’s grown much to fond of strong drink.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/5/2014 @ 10:12 ambasically he’s saying he wants some super-flexible food stamps
this is how Americans are anymore – a handout-craving piggy kind of people what feel entitled to free government slop
it’s a thing
happyfeet (8ce051) — 4/5/2014 @ 10:21 amMoran’s curse known as
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/5/2014 @ 10:22 am“teh lack of the Irish” and
he drinks to forget
Another Democrat disgrace who thankfully will be stepping down at the end of the year.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 4/5/2014 @ 11:04 amLike the “affordable wage”, which causes minimum-wage employees to be replaced by better employees, raising the salary of Congressmen to $1 million would probably bring a higher class of candidate.
Kevin M (b11279) — 4/5/2014 @ 11:29 am“raising the salary of Congressmen to $1 million would probably bring a higher class of candidate.”
Kevin M – It will create more Congressmen too.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 4/5/2014 @ 11:44 amI’ll just say that while I am not in favor necessarily of giving raises, DC is one of the most expensive places to live as far as I understand,
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 4/5/2014 @ 12:32 pmand since people usually have a residence in the state they represent,
I don’t know how much is reasonable to pay.
Maybe pro-rate it, a certain amount to support a residence in the home location, variable as a percent of the average cost of living in that area. A House member from Manhattan or San Fran gets more than someone in Mississippi, for example.
$175,000 is a whole lot more than we live on, but then we only have one house and it is in a region with relatively low housing prices compared to some; much lower than Boston, NYC, DC.
If they get a raise, make sure there is an offset when the govt is shut down, one they don’t get back when opens again.
“raising the salary of Congressmen to $1 million would probably bring a higher class of candidate.”
Whores are whores. You are just bickering over the price.
JD (5c1832) — 4/5/2014 @ 12:35 pm175k is just the beginning of their compensation and benefits.
JD (5c1832) — 4/5/2014 @ 12:36 pmThat’s frightening. But it explains a lot.
Clearly, people who can’t get by on $174k shouldn’t be on the board of anything.
Steve57 (181b49) — 4/5/2014 @ 12:38 pmUnderstood, JD, that’s why I am not eager to suggest they get raises, just noting that by their occupation they have more expenses (like two dwelling places) than many people do.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 4/5/2014 @ 12:40 pmBut I think there is a Congressional gym or something, so they could pitch tents in front of the Washington monument and take showers at the gym.
Occupy DC for reals, as feets would say.
With the proposed cut backs in the military (although something we will pay dearly for in the future) there will probably be underutilized resident options at military bases near DC. How about making some of those unused barracks and/or BOQ facilities available to those in need. Maybe even keep a mess hall open, at least for breakfast. They will still have their power lunches and receptions with munchies in the evening, so those meals are covered.
We did OK with that arrangement (the barracks, not the receptions, etc) coming up; maybe these guys who purport to work for us will learn from that experience.
I am having a problem with the idea that $175K is a hardship wage, especially for the return we get for it.
Gramps, the original (8c018c) — 4/5/2014 @ 12:57 pmthey gave us Obamacare, the stimulus, green energy subsidies, how do they deserve a raise again,
narciso (3fec35) — 4/5/2014 @ 1:10 pmMD, I think there are more people than you’re aware of who are in the same boat. I knew FEDEX pilots, for instance, who lived (and drilled in the reserves) all over the country. But they flew out of Memphis. They’d get together and rent an apartment to use as a crash pad.
That’s fairly common for commercial airline pilots. And cabin crew. They just don’t splurge, and they share expenses.
These people under discussion typically only work in DC three days a week. They arrive Tuesday morning before Congress is in session, then fly out just as soon as Congress is out of session on Thursday.
I know that sounds incredible.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/01/politics/congress-work-time/index.html
So we’re only talking about these Congresscritters sleeping on a sofa in their office two nights a week. Apparently they’re too cheap to shell out for a motel six. But if they’re only in Washington for 3 days/2 nights I don’t see why they’d need to maintain a residence there. But if they want to, or they’d rather stay in a motel, I don’t see why they couldn’t do all that on $174k.
Steve57 (181b49) — 4/5/2014 @ 1:16 pm==but the fact is that this is the board of directors for the largest economic entity in the world ==
LOL LOL LOL
elissa (b364f8) — 4/5/2014 @ 1:19 pmThose of us who had decent history teachers and parents who took us to visit the founders’ homes, recognize this whine as a slap in the face to those early men who truly sacrificed for the country’s benefit. Farmers who left crops in their fields, merchants who often closed up their shops for months, etc, so they could travel to Washington to represent their states and counties.
elissa (b364f8) — 4/5/2014 @ 1:30 pmto paraphrase Edwin Starr, ‘what are they good for;
http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/04/04/4040046/senate-findings-on-cia-interrogations.html
narciso (3fec35) — 4/5/2014 @ 1:39 pmteh Dems seem to have
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/5/2014 @ 1:40 pman uncontrollable urge
to spend our money
Moran is not a Senator, thank God.
But Gowdy is off base here. Maybe he can afford to stay and DC and keep a residence in SC, but that’s a strain for many in areas with higher housing costs and taxes.
Keep congressional salaries low, and restrict their outside earnings like we do, and all that is accomplished is that 90% of those who run are already rich.
Is that what we want?
Moran is an obnoxious, lying idiot, but even a blind hog finds a acorn now and then.
Estragon (ada867) — 4/5/2014 @ 1:42 pmthere’s no denying
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/5/2014 @ 1:42 pmthey got an urge gotta surge
out of control now
Sorry… watching Live Devo this afternoon…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/5/2014 @ 1:43 pmlet’s make it easy for Congress: while in DC, they can live in a standard military barracks of they type they approve of for enlisted troops, they can eat in a mess hall staffed and supplied to the standard they fund for the troops, and they can commute on public transportation, just like they want us to.
that will free up all sorts of income for them to be able to have a home in their district.
it will also, like as not, have a salubrious effect on the quality of life for the men & women who really DO serve this country, unlike the scum in Congress.
redc1c4 (abd49e) — 4/5/2014 @ 1:46 pmwhy do they spend millions to keep such a hardship post, Moran will beg for his supper as a lobbyist or a MSNBC commentator,
narciso (3fec35) — 4/5/2014 @ 1:47 pmEstragon, our founders never envisioned a professional class of lifer politicians who would need to buy homes in D.C. because they were going to stay for 30 years and never ever go home again.
elissa (b364f8) — 4/5/2014 @ 1:49 pmComment by Steve57 (181b49) — 4/5/2014 @ 1:16 pm
Barracks, great idea.
Well, I have been edumacated.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 4/5/2014 @ 2:06 pmI’ll just say that while I am not in favor necessarily of giving raises, DC is one of the most expensive places to live as far as I understand,
Some of that, if not a good portion of that, has been triggered by countless billions of dollars of federal tax dollars flowing into that part of the country, which, in a way — since DC’s economy has done better over the past 6 years than other parts of the US — has been like a micro experiment that validates at least one facet of Keynesian economics. But what has occurred in various countries in Europe or a society like Japan, where Keynesian has gone off the deep end, also illustrates there’s a limit to just how much of a positive impact can be traced to a government handing out money like Santa Claus.
BTW, MD in Philly, I personally don’t want to even use the qualifier of “necessarily” when giving thumbs down to the idea that the salary of members of Congress should be raised.
and all that is accomplished is that 90% of those who run are already rich.
As with race, gender or sexuality, etc, I’m more interested in and concerned about the ideology of a government official (about whether he’s liberal or conservative, or “centrist”) than I am about his or her income or trust fund—or lack of such. However, yes, money can influence the decisionmaking of a politician. But, if anything, a modest-income person in a position of authority may be a far more willing dupe of special interests (and their campaign contributions) than what will prod (or not prod) an already well-to-do politician.
Generally speaking, I’m far more confident in what will come out of a person who’s wealthy but also of the right than I am of a person whose background is middle-class but who ideologically tilts to the left. In turn, I’d never vote for a Warren-Buffett-type person running for office versus a blue-collar conservative candidate.
Mark (0b101b) — 4/5/2014 @ 2:19 pmI blame air conditioning, before the advent of air conditioning DC was a barely habitable swamp and no one, especially congresscritters, stayed in DC any longer than they had to. I say go ahead with the per diem, but it cannot be used at any place with air conditioning.
max (131bc0) — 4/5/2014 @ 3:10 pmNot buying the “it’s expensive to live in DC and have a second house back home” argument.
I make 20% less than Congressmen. I live in an upscale apartment in downtown Arlington, VA that sits on a Metro stop that’s a straight shot to the Capitol. I have a house in my home state.
I manage that and still save 20% of my gross.
And I don’t get the perqs that Congresspeople do that help with the costs.
No, they don’t HAVE to live high on the hog. They choose to. And that IS very expensive, especially in the DC area.
Their job is to represent their districts. Surely they can be representative on three times the average pay back home.
Or maybe we should CUT their salaries. That might make them more representative.
Dan S (00fc90) — 4/5/2014 @ 3:23 pmNot surprising, Mr. Gowdy’s comments were ignored by the mfm.
mg (31009b) — 4/5/2014 @ 3:23 pmExcellent comment. I’m not buying the “I can’t afford to spend two nights a week in DC on $174K” argument either.
Steve57 (181b49) — 4/5/2014 @ 3:54 pmJim Moran should be paying the taxpayers.
Elephant Stone (108847) — 4/5/2014 @ 4:15 pmOr something.
. . . the fact is that this is the board of directors for the largest economic entity in the world and a lot of members can even afford to live decently when they are at their job in Washington.
There’s a point to be made that $174k isn’t a lot considering that you are required to maintain your residence in your congressional district while trying to find living accommodations in DC, especially since the DC area is now one of the wealthiest enclaves in the U.S. Granted, the fact that DC is so expensive is largely a function of the power the Federal Government has accumulated over the past decade-plus, but still this problem cries out for a solution.
So here’s what we do: We build a giant dorm for Congresspeople. Not one of these modern college dorms awash in luxury and high-end amenities, but an old-fashioned dorm where they have to live in doubles and triples with bunk-beds, a lone sink in the room, and communal bathrooms. Each floor can have a shared kitchen. There will be something like 220 rooms for the 535 members, so they will have to share. And no matter how much it sucks to have to room with Alan Grayson, Democrats will be forced to suck it up. Since this will be non-luxury living, residents won’t have to pay exorbitant rent, maybe $900/month for a triple and $1200/month for a double. Either way, it will be required to be self-sufficient, and Congress will not be allowed to manage the property in any way.
JVW (9946b6) — 4/5/2014 @ 4:16 pmCongresspeople surreptitiously entertaining “lobsters” in the dorm would be difficult, too–another plus for your idea JVW!
elissa (b364f8) — 4/5/2014 @ 4:22 pmWouldn’t it be fun to have, for example, Nancy Pelosi and Debbie Wasserman-Schultz living together, and read in the gossip magazines about how the two are getting along because Debbie invited the gals from Emily’s List over to watch the new episode of “Girls” the same night that Nancy had planned on having a wine-and-cheese party with the Sierra Club?
JVW (9946b6) — 4/5/2014 @ 4:28 pmI love how a guy who will have been in Congress for 24 years by the end of this current term, all of a sudden is whining about the pay.
He knew what he was getting into, and besides, his district is a hop, a skip, and a jump away from DC—he represents northern, northern, northern Virginia, for Godssakes. It’s not like he’s commuting from Idaho. Or someplace.
Also, I believe that members of Congress get a lifetime pension after having served six years. In what other line of work does someone receive a full pension for six years work !
See, we don’t want people who perceive Congress as their “career.”
Elephant Stone (108847) — 4/5/2014 @ 4:29 pmThe initial citizen representatives returned to their district and resumed their original line of work.
But that’s the problem with these Democrats—they don’t really have a line of work to return to.
“. . . the two are *not* getting along . . . ” that should have read.
JVW (9946b6) — 4/5/2014 @ 4:29 pm“Ok, fellow dormmates, this week, it is Nancy Pelosi’s turn to sweep the floors and take out the garbage !”
Elephant Stone (108847) — 4/5/2014 @ 4:31 pmComment by Dan S (00fc90) — 4/5/2014 @ 3:23 pm
Thank you too.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 4/5/2014 @ 4:36 pmAs I said previously, I have been edumacated.
He is much worse than even this would indicate. A small businessman in Virgina that I know well had an issue with the government and reached out to Moran, his representative. The businessman had his 22 year old daughter deliver the documents to Moran’s office and speak with him.
To make a long story short, Moran indicated he would be willing to help, on the condition that the daughter would be “accommodating”. Apparently, this was pretty much standard practice for this piece of s**t.
GaryS (b7eb39) — 4/5/2014 @ 4:45 pmGiving them a raise will definitely improve the quality of the body, sarc;
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/04/democrat-calls-nra-supporters-pure-trash/
narciso (3fec35) — 4/5/2014 @ 4:49 pmThe following anecdote has been attributed to a few different directors (including actor/writer/director/producer and conservative (!) Michael Landon.
Method actor/actress X is having difficulty grasping the internal motive for his/her character in a particular scene, so, he/she blurts out, “What’s my motive for this scene !?”
Director’s reply; “Your paycheck.”
I’ve also heard that the witty follow-up was something like, “…and there are fifty other people who would kill for your paycheck if you decide the paycheck doesn’t sufficiently motivate you, today.”
All in all, it really isn’t about “public service” for the Jim
Elephant Stone (108847) — 4/5/2014 @ 4:51 pmMoronsMorans of the world. They pontificate as if they’re the second coming of Mother Teresa, but in actuality, they want to live like Donald Trump.But Gowdy is off base here. Maybe he can afford to stay and DC and keep a residence in SC, but that’s a strain for many in areas with higher housing costs and taxes.
Keep congressional salaries low, and restrict their outside earnings like we do, and all that is accomplished is that 90% of those who run are already rich.
This is remarkable.
JD (5c1832) — 4/5/2014 @ 4:55 pmMaybe if members of Congress and their staff were “forced” to participate in the ObamaCare exchanges, their lives and finances would be in better order.
Because after all, it is inexpensive, and better quality. Or something.
Elephant Stone (108847) — 4/5/2014 @ 5:16 pmAnd as a result, they’ll have tons of money left over to spend on stuff like apartments in DC.
Or whatever.
Estragon @ 21,
Thank you for noting the mistake re Jim Moran. Post has been updated to reflect correction.
(I’m still on a learning curve posting/using WordPress, and as such,
Dana (9a8f57) — 4/5/2014 @ 5:41 pmtriplequadruple check everything, so it’s funny I missed such an obvious thing!)Then that means she’s not coming back?
Steve57 (181b49) — 4/5/2014 @ 5:56 pmJD, how do you know Gowdy isn’t one of the guys sleeping on their office sofa?
Steve57 (181b49) — 4/5/2014 @ 5:57 pmI agree with Gramps, the original at 14: Utilize underused and/or closed military base housing for Congress. If those bases were good enough for our enlisted men and women to sleep in, they are certainly good enough for Congress.
Also, a shrewd and savvy businessperson might purchase a closed hotel in the D.C. area and rent out rooms in the newly renovated efficiency apartment for Congressional members only. Nothing fancy, just the basics, and let them at a controlled efficiency apartment rate.
Dana (9a8f57) — 4/5/2014 @ 5:58 pmI didn’t mean remarkable in a good way, Steve. If memory serves, Gowdy was a DA, and a Fed prosecutor prior to becoming a congresscritter.
Keep congressional salaries low?! In what world is 175k salary and a lifetime pension low? If you can’t keep an existing home, and manage to spend 3 days a week on the road, it is no wonder they have problems producing a budget, much less responsible ones.
JD (5a9bdf) — 4/5/2014 @ 6:03 pmOur congress at work;
http://news.yahoo.com/congress-two-front-war-cia-094500109–politics.html;_ylt=A0LEVvKZqEBTbjAAi0lkmolQ;_ylu=X3oDMTBsa3ZzMnBvBHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw–
stigmatizing some, excusing others,
narciso (3fec35) — 4/5/2014 @ 6:11 pmAs I recall, Blagojevich was reporting about $700,000 a year from his DC law office when he was my Congressman. I’ll google moran finanancial disclosure with duckduckg to see what I find.
nk (dbc370) — 4/5/2014 @ 6:19 pmHe might be honest! http://apps.washingtonpost.com/politics/capitol-assets/member/james-moran/
nk (dbc370) — 4/5/2014 @ 6:21 pmSteve57@5:57 and JD@6:03–
It is sort of confusing, and not that clear from the way the comment was formatted, but it appears that JD at 44 was quoting Estragon @21. The way I read it JD was saying Estragon’s comments were “remarkable” (not in a good way)–not Gowdy’s comments. Quotation marks or a reference to the earlier commenter for context would probably help.
elissa (b364f8) — 4/5/2014 @ 6:22 pmOr maybe not, now that I looked closer at the chart.
nk (dbc370) — 4/5/2014 @ 6:24 pmThanks for the reminder nk. I had seen this list before. This is one of the ones I found most interesting:
http://apps.washingtonpost.com/politics/capitol-assets/member/debbie-wasserman-schultz/
elissa (b364f8) — 4/5/2014 @ 6:32 pmSorry, JD, I didn’t know you were referring to an earlier comment.
In what world is $174k and a lifetime pension low?
It looks like that would be Jim Moran’s world.
http://apps.washingtonpost.com/politics/capitol-assets/member/james-moran/
In 2010 the WaPo estimated his net wealth at $266K and change. That’s down 97% from 2004. Apparently he’s made some very bad investments, as he used to be worth over $12M at one point.
Apparently he wants the tax payers to make it up to him.
It makes it even more frightening that he considers himself “underpaid” as a member of the “…board of directors for the largest economic entity in the world.” Would you have him on your board?
And this isn’t a hypothetical; as a Virginia Democrat he doesn’t need to maintain two residences.
As an aside, if he can average an average of $1.5M a year between 2004 and 2007 in increased net worth I don’t see how we’re restricting these people’s incomes.
Steve57 (181b49) — 4/5/2014 @ 7:21 pm“**Current approval rating of Congress remains stagnant.”
You know, like pond scum.
C. S. P. Schofield (e8b801) — 4/5/2014 @ 7:23 pmThis comment is in response to WarEagle’s on the Final Four thread.
No, WarEagle, no! When Congress is not in session the President, among other things, gets to exercise pocket veto and to make recess appointments. We need the mopes there for checks and balances such as they are.
I do agree that they are overpaid not unnderpaid.
nk (dbc370) — 4/5/2014 @ 8:16 pmSome context.
http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/375059/lost-fortunes-underpaid-representative-jim-moran-jim-geraghty
Anybody here really think we need to be on the hook for Jim Moran’s divorces?
Steve57 (e3957b) — 4/6/2014 @ 1:11 amWhat happens when there is no oversight;
http://americanthinker.com/2014/04/state_of_disunion.html
narciso (3fec35) — 4/6/2014 @ 4:27 amPut this in the wrong thread last night…
Congress should be housed in barracks while they are in session.
Congress should be limited to holding sessions for a total of 90 days a year.
While in session, Congress should receive “jury duty pay” at minimum wage.
If congress can’t get their job done in 90 days, they should be fined $1000 per day or dismissed.
Don’t tell me these idiots are underpaid! Most leave Congress far wealthier than they arrived. as extremely wealthy individuals.
What a CROCK!!!
WarEagle82 (b18ccf) — 4/6/2014 @ 8:12 amI don’t think you understand how “pocket veto” really works…
Then just make Congress formally pass all their bills in the first 79 days of their session. And the Senate already routinely stays in session even though they are not doing anything to prevent recess appointments. Neither of these are valid concerns to limiting the time Congress has to muck up the country.
WarEagle82 (b18ccf) — 4/6/2014 @ 8:19 amJoe Biden used to commute from Delaware, famously by Amtrak, but that’s about as far away as they get..
Sammy Finkelman (ebf45c) — 4/6/2014 @ 9:10 amCharles Schumer shares Washington, D.C., living quarters with 3 other members of Congress, one of whom is Dick Durbin. This year the one wo started it all is retiring.
Sammy Finkelman (ebf45c) — 4/6/2014 @ 9:17 amMoran was an active trader again in the mid-2000s, with assets owned by his wealthy third wife.
Sheesh. He’s like a George Soros, but one who’s done poorly in the stock market.
So we get stuck with the reckless “champagne socialism” of such folks — exacerbated by their love of dumb legislation and foolish policies — and, at the same time, also have to deal with their desire to offset their personal irresponsibility by requests from them that they be allowed to dip into the public treasury.
Mark (7ef0e1) — 4/6/2014 @ 9:35 aman example of the former attempt to destroy rather than oversee;
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2014/04/former-cia-official-responds-to-attack-by-senate-dems.php
narciso (3fec35) — 4/6/2014 @ 10:27 amGowdy is wrong – teachers are very much overpaid. There are more qualified applicants than teaching positions. When supply exceeds demand, price is too high. Put every teaching position out to bid every year and see what happens.
tomhynes (324193) — 4/6/2014 @ 2:38 pmI would suggest a prison barge on the Potomac.
I totally agree. But then I don’t have to go home to one every night, so I can cut Trey Gowdy some slack for throwing his wife a bone.
Steve57 (e3957b) — 4/6/2014 @ 3:53 pmDana @49- Allow me to add that my mental picture of such housing is not the “palatial digs” found on today’s bases. As one might guess, my experience with such accommodations goes back many decades: open bays, unfinished interior walls and coal for heat and hot water. Yes, coal. I would allow them access to quartermaster laundry however, I am not a cruel person.
On the other hand, I do have to hand it to Moran: 3 ex-wives and he still has $15K in the bank?? That took some doing.
Gramps, the original (8c018c) — 4/7/2014 @ 12:36 am“the high cost of living in the Capitol”
The Capitol is the building, the Capital is the city. Just sayin’ …
southcentralpa (cfef80) — 4/7/2014 @ 7:37 amI am proud to be represented by the Honorable Mr. Moron.
Dave F (71a811) — 4/7/2014 @ 2:07 pm