Wait . . . WHAT? Healthcare.gov Payment System Not Even Built Yet??
This . . . can’t be right. Can it?
Another day, another big, bad black eye for HealthCare.gov.
A crucial system for making payments to insurers from people who enroll in that federal Obamacare marketplace has yet to be built, a senior government IT official admitted Tuesday.
The official, Henry Chao, visibly stunned Rep. Cory Gardner (R-Colo.) when he said under questioning before a House subcommittee that a significant fraction of HealthCare.gov—30 to 40 percent of it—has yet to be constructed.
“We still need to build the payments system to make the payments [to insurance companies] in January,” testified Chao, deputy chief information officer of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, the federal agency that operates HealthCare.gov.
Now I guess we know why the federal government released numbers based on people who selected a plan, without regard to whether they had paid for it. If this is really right, then . . . nobody who signed up through Healthcare.gov has paid. (In the sense that insurers have received the money, which as I understand it, is a requirement for enrollment to be considered complete.) Right? Not one single person.
Am I missing something here???
Surely I am misunderstanding something.Patterico (9c670f) — 11/19/2013 @ 6:05 pm
I’ve seen the “60% built” comment reported as 60% still left to build and 40% still left to build.
Neither number is much better than the other.
This is actually much worse than it appeared in October.
Cluster f**k does not even begin to describe the incompetence and deceit being displayed by the Obama clown show.SPQR (768505) — 11/19/2013 @ 6:09 pm
Don’t call it Shirley;narciso (3fec35) — 11/19/2013 @ 6:14 pm
The democrats own this Katrina.mg (31009b) — 11/19/2013 @ 6:15 pm
Man made by the sickest people on earth. Democrats.
As a computer programmer, I’m apalled. This is … inexcusable.aphrael (fb202d) — 11/19/2013 @ 6:28 pm
obamacare makes everyone so unhappyhappyfeet (8ce051) — 11/19/2013 @ 6:30 pm
Honestly, I really think the best thing about this train wreck* is if you go to any lefty blog or comments on any news story about Obamacare, there is a parade of Obamabots declaring in full throat that the right is still stupid.
The bad thing, though, is all of us stupids are now expected to fix it because: Obama.
*Courtesy: Sen. Max Baucus, D-Montana, who suddenly decided to not run again after carrying this clusterfark through the Senate.Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 11/19/2013 @ 6:34 pm
How much worse can it be?JD (5c1832) — 11/19/2013 @ 6:37 pm
Can you imagine how bad this would all be if the Web site actually worked?
Hey, wait a second!Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 11/19/2013 @ 6:44 pm
I didn’t understand all of it, but Hewitt had someone on last night that seemed to say the individual market has already had a lethal blow no matter what happens next, at least that is sort of what I gathered from it.MD in Philly (f9371b) — 11/19/2013 @ 6:48 pm
If this is really right, then . . . nobody who signed up through Healthcare.gov has paid.
So that’s the hidden genius of ObamaCare: you get a healthcare plan, but you don’t have to pay for it. Sounds like a win/win to me. What could possibly go wrong?
It is totally logical at this point to just skip striaght to single-payer. Um, I hope I am not accidentally giving away the topic of the next LA Times editorial.JVW (709bc7) — 11/19/2013 @ 6:54 pm
So, if I’m following correctly, the whole plan was set up to fail, bankrupt the insurance industry, throw thousands out of work and allow a single-payer system to save the day?
Heh.Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 11/19/2013 @ 6:57 pm
I’m beginning to doubt his statement that “I won.” I’ve known for a long time that we lost, but really, did he win?htom (412a17) — 11/19/2013 @ 7:03 pm
I was on the board of a non-profit once when we discovered the Director of Operations was dealing with things she didn’t like or understand by shoving them in her desk drawer. People were complaining, bills weren’t being paid and by the time we got past her BS the drawer had hundreds of items in it. Needless to say we fired her on the spot and several board members had to go fix everything.
This is different in three ways:
1) the board is less competent than the person in chargeKevin M (bf8ad7) — 11/19/2013 @ 7:03 pm
2) it probably isn’t fixable
3) no one has been fired
Millions of people need good jobs to be able to pay taxes to fund single payer, too. They mighta missed that part unless they’re planning to confiscate IRAs and bank accounts. That could get ugly.elissa (c6530a) — 11/19/2013 @ 7:05 pm
You didn’t build that ?Elephant Stone (108847) — 11/19/2013 @ 7:13 pm
Millions of people need good jobs to be able to pay taxes to fund single payer, too. They mighta missed that part unless they’re planning to confiscate IRAs and bank accounts. That could get ugly.
The folks on MSNBC tell me that single payer actually will be way cheaper than the existing system, since the nasty insurance industry won’t have their fingers in the pie, the nasty doctors won’t be allowed to give you emergency appendectomies when the rationing board decides you don’t need them, the nasty pharmaceutical companies won’t be allowed to sell you expensive designer drugs, and all this preventative care is totally going to save us trillions of dollars on the back end because we are always going to catch cancer in the very initial stages before it metastasizes and everyone who is ordered by their doctor to stop smoking and lose 30 pounds will do so without delay.
Honestly, I don’t understand why you right-wingers can’t see how simple this is.JVW (709bc7) — 11/19/2013 @ 7:14 pm
Elissa, wasn’t there some chatter awhile back about accounts and IRAS being confiscated by this administration ? It rings a bell… Maybe I’ll poke around and see if I can find it…Dana (d14468) — 11/19/2013 @ 7:15 pm
So, if I’m following correctly, the whole plan was set up to fail, bankrupt the insurance industry, throw thousands out of work and allow a single-payer system to save the day?
No, they actually planned for this to work. This has been such an awesome display of Olympic incompetence that it just boggles the mind. Henry Chao has been sitting on top of this for months, knowing it must fail, and WHAT!?! Did he hope for
the code fairiesmagic code writers to appear and fix it all for him? What was he doing all this time, other than not looking at the calendar?
Malfeasance doesn’t begin to describe this. Fraud and misappropriation possibly. I guess he goes onto the list of “going to jail when the Republicans get in”, but sheeeee-it. This is just amazingly poor.Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 11/19/2013 @ 7:15 pm
Obamacare is totally affordable if nobody has to pay. D’oh!daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 11/19/2013 @ 7:16 pm
Paula Deen is a racist she makes biscuits I like her thoughhappyfeet (8ce051) — 11/19/2013 @ 7:16 pm
I am willing to bet my house that single payer won’t get through Congress. Any liberals have houses they want to bet?Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 11/19/2013 @ 7:17 pm
accounts and IRAS being confiscated by this administration
That would get him impeached and convicted. And if not, it would start a civil war.Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 11/19/2013 @ 7:19 pm
that seems a lil naive Mr. M
all a president has to do in neo-fascist post-america is to keep the food stamps flowing and he can do pretty much whatever he wants
Americans are a docile and cowardly people
not so much unlike venezuelans is what we’re learninghappyfeet (8ce051) — 11/19/2013 @ 7:21 pm
especially the ones with cablehappyfeet (8ce051) — 11/19/2013 @ 7:22 pm
Well that is Teresa Ghilarducci’s ‘modest suggestion’ you take away the policies and savings of tens of million of people, and katie bar the door.narciso (3fec35) — 11/19/2013 @ 7:23 pm
Honestly, I don’t understand why you right-wingers can’t see how simple this is.
That’s because our hearts aren’t big enough, because we don’t shed tears in great enough abundance, because our kindness isn’t beautiful enough.
Just know that if you think I’m trying to sound sarcastic, far too many Americans will believe otherwise. And that’s why this society is facing a murky — at best — future.Mark (58ea35) — 11/19/2013 @ 7:24 pm
I think it was the Ron Paul people that suggesting the administration was going to go after accounts.Dana (d14468) — 11/19/2013 @ 7:27 pm
Elissa: There is another factor we are not considering. What are we on now, QE3?
Billions and billions of dollars are now being invested in the NYSE and other exchanges.
That money is not going into the productive economy. All of that money is 1s and 0s being used to prop up exchange markets.
In the meantime, productive people are sidelined while the elites rake in ethereal cash. Smoke and mirrors will not work forever.
My only assumption can be that the left understands what it learned in school, but it has no understanding of how real wealth is created.
I don’t want to sound like a nut, but man, the media’s nuts should have been right lately about a lot of things.Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 11/19/2013 @ 7:30 pm
sure, not should.Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 11/19/2013 @ 7:30 pm
True. They didn’t expect this thing to crash and burn immediately.
Having them tell the public now that the only way to fix the health care system that they just destroyed in front of God and everybody is single payer, and they’re the ones to pull it off, would go over like a lead balloon.
It’d be like hiring a contractor to put in a pool. And then coming home one evening to discover that they’ve completely flattened your house with the backhoe loader.
Then having that contractor tell you he never promised you there wouldn’t be a few glitches. And the only solution is to let him and his crew build you an expensive new house. Just as soon as he gets the pool working reasonably well for eight out of ten people.Steve57 (338553) — 11/19/2013 @ 7:46 pm
The only thing Obama knows how to run is his mouth.Elephant Stone (108847) — 11/19/2013 @ 7:50 pm
Ha, ha, I wrote “media’s nuts.” Carry on.Ag80, former candidate who is not trying to reach the border (eb6ffa) — 11/19/2013 @ 7:52 pm
The only thing Obama knows how to run is his mouth.
ES, as much as I loathe Marion Berry I have to acknowledge that a slightly different version of this was one of the most awesome things ever said about a truly awful race hustler.JVW (709bc7) — 11/19/2013 @ 7:55 pm
Re-think that former part, ag80… desperate times call for desperate measures,Colonel Haiku (eacb1f) — 11/19/2013 @ 8:03 pm
Wrong, Stones, he’s also pretty good at running the country into the effing ground.Colonel Haiku (eacb1f) — 11/19/2013 @ 8:05 pm
i don’t understand how this can even be america anymore
we should rename it foodstampwhoreland
no more red white and blue we’ll need new colors and I have some ideas and not just from cheating with an android app that picks color palettes for you
ok yeah mostly I was just gonna use the apphappyfeet (8ce051) — 11/19/2013 @ 8:17 pm
Would things improve if Obama smoked crack like Mayor Ford? He’s certainly be more active. And it would be fun to watch him putt.Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 11/19/2013 @ 8:59 pm
Could it be, that this was all a ruse to raid the Treasury for the crony’s, and that there was never any intention to do health-care for the rubes?askeptic (2bb434) — 11/19/2013 @ 9:49 pm
This Obama crowd sincerely believes that in every crisis is an opportunity.
He’s not running for reelection anymore. He knows the Dems aren’t going to re-take the House in 2014, so he’s not going to pass anything important through Congress.
He believes — because the evidence to date all shows — that his base will support him no matter what. As a practical matter he can’t be impeached unless the Dems drop below one-third of the Senate, and that ain’t gonna happen either. So he knows already that until January 2017 — a date so distant that I nearly weep to type it — he will be able to get away with any lie, any incompetence, and any malfeasance up to and definitely including the outright criminal and otherwise impeachable.
He’ll reign via executive order and regulation as much as he can, which is quite a bit; and he’ll retain enough power to effectively block any Republican counter-agenda regardless of public pressure or opinion.
For Obama, it’s all about relative calibrated levels of lame-duckness, not whether he’s a lame duck or not. Of course he is, and has been since he beat Romney but couldn’t retake the House.
Many of us believed back in 2009, when Obamacare was being rammed through, that it was deliberately designed to fail: key policymakers and draftsmen of this monstrosity were career-long and dedicated proponents of single-payer. They can’t win that argument fair-and-square, as Hillarycare’s crash-and-burn showed. But they certainly had a big voice in writing Obamacare, including the bribing of the private insurance and healthcare industries that they’re now in the midst of destroying.
What we’re seeing now was always part of their plan. You can’t get to single-payer any other way than through a disaster. Well, it’s arrived.
Elections have consequences. We’re going to continue to be hosed by the consequences of the 2012 presidential election from now until 2017.
We must, of course, continue our most vigorous and persuasive opposition to Obama’s policies and actions. But that’s like saying a stalemated team in a tug-o’-war can’t just give up if it wants to maintain a tie and avoid a complete loss. Don’t give up; but be realistic.Beldar (8ff56a) — 11/19/2013 @ 9:52 pm
If you think this wasn’t all part of a deep, dark, and disruptive plan by key Democrats as a means to get to single-payer, answer me this:
By every knowledgeable observer’s report (including both Democrat and Republican consultants & press), the Obama 2012 campaign absolutely outhustled, outclassed, and outperformed the Romney Teams’ GotV organization — specifically including fundraising, data-collection, and data-management technologies and applications in the field. We’re supposed to believe that that same team — after eclipsing its own 2008 record for online fundraising and savvy — couldn’t manage to construct a website that included a payment function?Beldar (8ff56a) — 11/19/2013 @ 10:09 pm
“We’re supposed to believe that that same team — after eclipsing its own 2008 record for online fundraising and savvy — couldn’t manage to construct a website that included a payment function?”
Beldar – Why the heck does the website have to include a payment function except to further government command and control. I know if I choose to purchase insurance on the exchange that I don’t want payments flowing through the government’s greasy little paws. I want them going straight from me to the insurer.daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 11/19/2013 @ 10:19 pm
Beldar, you’re right. I dropped everything to spend almost all my time doing what little I could, which was not much, to make the case that Obama would be dangerous in office and should be opposed.
The fact that he was the protege of a domestic terrorist whose organization bombed the Pentagon and whose wife was responsible for the murder of two police officers in an effort to fund the terrorist organization were the first clues. They weren’t the only ones.
But, America has fallen and such a person was electable then. Fight a rearguard action as strongly as you can for the sake of your families.Former Conservative (04eed2) — 11/19/2013 @ 10:22 pm
daleyrocks, I’m not saying it would have been a good thing if the website had worked. And they couldn’t just use a PayPal link; they’re matching up and balancing subsidy credits, yada yada yada. I’m just saying that if it had worked as ostensibly (i.e., for public consumption) intended, the healthcare.gov website would indeed have included payment functions. So why doesn’t it, and what if anything can we infer from the fact that it doesn’t?
I’m arguing that simple incompetence is an inadequate explanation for just how awful the entire Obamacare roll-out has been.
Those who see crises as an opportunity may be tempted to create crises if they see themselves as otherwise short of opportunities.
I don’t even know if Obama himself is deep and far-sighted enough to conceive and execute such a strategy. I think that probably gives him too much credit.
But others in his circle are indeed that devious and duplicitous and dangerous. And as they view this whole situation, it’s fertile ground for the sort of coup d’etat that doesn’t involve tanks, but that nevertheless has no connection to the intentions or approval of the public at large.Beldar (8ff56a) — 11/19/2013 @ 10:28 pm
I can see why the Democrats fought so hard to keep this guy from testifying.BradnSA (889298) — 11/19/2013 @ 10:34 pm
Beldar, the only quibble that I have with your analysis is this: Obama and his minions have always been good at selling Obama. The reason is because “Obama” isn’t really a tangible good, it’s an abstract idea designed to appeal to cross-section of voters which adds up to precisely 52% of the electorate. ObamaCare, on the other hand, is an actual good/service with a price and real terms of usage. One can actually evaluate the product against its claims. As we have always known, ObamaCare’s advocates sold it by flat-out lying about what it would accomplish and how much it would cost.
So what I am getting at is that the “geniuses” who run the Obama campaign are very very good at marketing and selling something that doesn’t really exist, but completely inept and horrible at marketing and selling something that people are going to actually have to utilize. It may be just as simple as that, and not based upon any nefarious secret designs to bring about the socialist paradise. (Not that I don’t fully acknowledge that lots of people in the Obama Administration would like to bring about the socialist paradise.)JVW (709bc7) — 11/19/2013 @ 10:48 pm
You know, Beldar, I understand your point of view. But when has this POTUS ever been happy to be criticized or proven wrong? Like Dennis Miller says, it’s not the color of his skin that is an issue; it’s the thinness of that skin. This mess is being hung on him, personally. And he is paying the price for it.
You may be right about a plan. But if it is, I don’t think that POTUS is part of it. He is way, way too convinced of his own greatness to take the hits necessary.
Unless he is just a figurehead and not in control of anything at all.
Brrrrr.Simon Jester (545b6a) — 11/19/2013 @ 11:01 pm
personally, i doubt the “experts” in charge of Romney’s so called campaign & the GotV page were interested in anything but making as much money as they could.
it’s painfully obvious that the Beltway Rinos of the RNC had no real interest in winning the White House or the Senate in 2012, and they aren’t showing much interest in 2014 either.redc1c4 (abd49e) — 11/19/2013 @ 11:05 pm
What is the saying? Do not assume malice when incompetence is sufficient? Hanlon’s Razor, I think. Or let’s go British:
Campaigning is what this crew is good at—all it is good at, it seems to me. Governing, not so much. And this website was designed by buddies of FLOTUS, without competitive bids. It was not designed by the OFA crew.
But you could indeed be right.Simon Jester (545b6a) — 11/19/2013 @ 11:05 pm
except to keep asking for campaign donations…redc1c4 (abd49e) — 11/19/2013 @ 11:06 pm
we’d have gotten a better website if they had turned the proverbial troop of monkeys loose on keyboards connected up to a word processing program set up with an auto-correct dictionary filled with only programing language of the appropriate sort in it.redc1c4 (abd49e) — 11/19/2013 @ 11:11 pm
“daleyrocks, I’m not saying it would have been a good thing if the website had worked.”
Beldar – I understood your point. I think part of the problems with the rollout stem from them outsmarting themselves. They said there would be no income verification year one yet somehow require the website to query something like seven different fed databases to determine eligibility for either medicaid or subsidies, creating incredible glitches. Why bother if there was going to be no enforcement on the other end?
Same thing with the payment function. Insurers can direct bill customers and the government for premiums and subsidies due, no reason it all has to flow through an Obamacare website.daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 11/19/2013 @ 11:31 pm
I agree, but I don’t think you’re taking it far enough. The number 2. Democrat in the House said on Sunday that the real purpose of Obamacare is to change America’s “value system.”
As Max Baucus said on the Senate floor shortly after the ACA passed, Obamacare was never about providing anyone with health care.
As we saw during the shut down, the whole point was to hijack the spending power and steal it from Congress. Had he cared a whit about Obamacare working he never would have fought the GOP offer to delay it for a year.
True, you can’t get to single payer without creating a disaster, but Obama is an Alinskyite. He doesn’t care so much about single-payer as he does about amassing as much power as he can. Money is power. So is destroying our system of checks and balances. Having a broken health care system isn’t so much a route to single payer as a route getting more of the former, and less of the latter. A broken economy serves the same purpose, by the way. Consequently I don’t think he cares if he ever gets single-payer. I think that’s just something he tells his gullible base.
He isn’t just trying to neuter Congress. He’s doing the same to the courts. Have you ever seen a President rebuke the Supreme Court justices as Obama did at the SOTU speech regarding the Citizen’s United case? Through Holder he asked a court in Texas to ignore to ignore the SCOTUS ruling striking down section 4 of the VRA and force Texas into pre-clearance anyway. And the DoJ has sent letters to universities telling them to ignore the the Fisher v. Texas ruling and continue to use race-dependent admissions policies that that the court ruled unconstitutional. This blog post quotes the WSJ article which is behind the paywall:
His ultimate aim is to destroy the legislative branch’s ability to oversee executive departments, to limit his power using the purse, and to free himself from judicial review. It’s not really single-payer.Steve57 (338553) — 11/19/2013 @ 11:50 pm
Even when incompetence may have been sufficient all on its own, that doesn’t preclude malice.
What haven’t they’ve lied about? They’ve lied about Fast & Furious (the DoJ had to withdraw their mendacious letter), they had to lie about the IRS, they’ve had to lie about Benghazi, and we’ve had a torrent of lies about Obamacare.
That wasn’t incompetence. Sure, Barack Obama couldn’t be trusted to run an ice cream stand because he’d fail at it. But if you were stupid enough to hire him he’d lie to you about why it’s failing. It was the guy who worked there before him, there was a tsunami in Japan, etc. It’ll never be his fault. But really it’s failing not just because the job is beyond his ability. It’s also because he was playing golf, or working on his three point shot, or on getting his bowling scores down, or his March Madness brackets instead.Steve57 (338553) — 11/20/2013 @ 12:00 am
No worries, just a glitch.justaglitch (f0d6ab) — 11/20/2013 @ 5:12 am
Beldar: I can think of an above-the-board reason why it might not have contained a payment function, because I’ve lived through that sort of project.
When you set up the plan for a large software project, you set it up to work in stages: first we’re going to work on this component, then we’re going to work on that component, etc. This is a *critical step*; if you just start working on things without an idea of how the components interact with each other and which ones you need to have working first because others are dependant on it, then you’ll have an unholy mess.
Some components can be worked on independently, others have built in dependencies.
I haven’t spent a lot of time thinking about this, because it’s not my job and I have other software projects which *do* pay me to think about, but at a high level, it seems reasonable to me to have the payments system be one of the last things worked on. The payments system requires input from the subsidy-calculating system, which requires input from the systems which validate user claims about income. So on some level, it makes sense to hold this system until you have the other systems working.
Of course, you *could* design this system so that it had no close dependencies on the other system – in fact, any good software designer would do so – which would allow you to develop it earlier and test it with dummy data that represents what you expect to come through your interface with the other system. But the number of things you can work on simultaneously is constrained by the size of your staff, and it’s *reasonable* to put this one at the end of the project, because nothing’s dependant on it.
So what do I think happened here?
I think this was slated for the end of the project, and everything else took longer than it was expected to, so this kept getting pushed out and out. At some point, probably mid-summer, upper management on the project decided that the way previous components had slipped meant it was no longer reasonable to expect this to be done by the deadline, and so they decided to just silently move it until after the deadline, under the theory that there would be time between the official deadline and the practical deadline (eg, the date by which payments absolutely have to be made) in order to slip the work in then.
Like I said, I’ve been an engineer on projects that have worked like this.
What appalls me is this: at the point when you start slipping major components of the project *out past the deadline*, the only reasonable thing to do is to renegotiate the deadline. Failure to do that creates a situation where you’re cramming and rushing in a way that inevitably results in lower quality, buggier code.
The other thing that appalls me is that a payment system should be fairly easy to put together using services that already exist. The only *complicated* part is the part that determines that $xxx is billed to the customer and $yyy is billed to the government. But … that calculation is *external to the payments system*. It should be provided to the payment system as input by some other module.
So: for the payment system you should be able to hire some independent contractors who are familiar with the technologies other websites use to do this sort of thing, and have them do it in maybe 6 weeks. Why wasn’t that considered as an option whenever the decision was made to slip this outside the normal schedule?aphrael (fb202d) — 11/20/2013 @ 7:01 am
The very fact the geniuses responsible for Obamacare, starting with its namesake, weren’t even able to figure out that a ridiculous mandate along the lines that health insurance plans must provide birth control — and how such requirements would impact the price structure in general — to me epitomizes the heart of — the essence of — the debacle that is ACA. From there, it was all downhill.Mark (58ea35) — 11/20/2013 @ 7:39 am
Factor in the lack of security protections built into the system as it was under construction. Without making sure personal information is secure at every level and stage of website construction, from beginning to end, there can be no effective overall security module incorporated down the road or after the fact. Attempting to graft protections onto an existing system have more to do with the appearance of security than the reality of it.
Attempting to add security to a maturing design won’t work. It much be an integral element designed organically into the system’s DNA right from the start, otherwise the door is open for mischief and can never be closed and locked tight.ropelight (5bf89f) — 11/20/2013 @ 8:17 am
Things that make you go hummmm. Several comments upthread triggered the following association.
Is it an unsettling stretch to note the underlying devious ways ObamaCare is being forced on an unwilling nation, and certain similarities to the same fundamentally deceptive methods employed in Fast-n-Furious in Obama’s earlier attempt to impose draconian gun restrictions?
Obama manufactures crisis whenever he needs a plausible excuse to impose totalitarian nostrums and he doesn’t give a damn how much it costs in taxpayer money or in other people’s blood. A big grin, a few words for the TV cameras and no matter how long his nose gets the puppet master can go play another round of golf while MSM carries his water and Oprah obediently trumps criticism with the ever ready race card.
Truly, Black is the most Beautiful camouflage a silver-tongued modern day American fascist could ever have to conceal his treachery.ropelight (5bf89f) — 11/20/2013 @ 9:04 am
404Care.org was designed not to work. That’s the entire point of ACA.
Bury private health insurance in a concrete sarcophagus.gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 11/20/2013 @ 9:19 am
As far as the secure payment portion of the website goes, any web design company should ALREADY HAVE THAT WRITTEN. They should only have to update it for the current site. If you google, you can find a zillion website contractors who already have secure payment programs written and they will sell it to you or sell it to you with contracting support to plug it into your website.
The only reason they wouldn’t have a secure payment portion already written is because they were doing up a new one to steal information with just like the design of the current site is set up to steal information on the targets for election/corruption purposes.
As far as ‘what was Henry Chao doing?’ the revealed memos say he was warning people up the line that it wasn’t meeting goals. And guess what? He got no help, no additional resources, no nothing. Bad management doesn’t listen and it fails. Their excuse was that they couldn’t do anything because the Republicans owuld make it look bad politically and wouldn’t allocate money for it. Bad management makes excuses.luagha (1de9ec) — 11/20/2013 @ 10:32 am
The New Yorker is still happy with Obamacare:
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/johncassidy/2013/11/americans-like-obamacare-where-they-can-get-it.htmlSammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 11/20/2013 @ 11:46 am
54. Comment by Steve57 (338553) — 11/20/2013 @ 12:00 am
Sure, Barack Obama couldn’t be trusted to run an ice cream stand because he’d fail at it.
He ran a Presidential campaign so that’s not exactly correct.
But he doesn’t do well when Plan A doesn’t work.Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 11/20/2013 @ 11:48 am
Part of Morning Jolt today:Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 11/20/2013 @ 12:03 pm
Sammy, you’re insane if you think Obama actually ran the campaign apparatus instead of his campaign managers.
Have you ever been involved in a political campaign? I have at the Congressional level. The candidate does not get involved in the day to day operations of the organization. The candidate has people who do that for him.
The house analogy holds here as well. If you hire an architect and a general contractor to design and build your house. Just because you tell the architect what you want, approve of the final design, and then stop by to talk to the contractor as it’s going up does not mean you know how to design and build a house.
That was one of the most transparent idiocies of Obama’s campaign. That he did have executive experience because he “ran” a campaign. No, he didn’t. Just the fact he would say it then proves, as he is proving now, he has no clue what actual executive experience consists of. If you’re buying that line then you have no clue either, Sammy.Steve57 (338553) — 11/20/2013 @ 12:31 pm
I guess the shorter version is that Obama is very good at taking credit for other people’s work. Good as in quick.
Do you also think Obama killed Bin Laden, Sammy?
He says he did. He killed OBL the same way he ran his campaign.Steve57 (338553) — 11/20/2013 @ 12:34 pm
Obama authorized the killinmg of Osama bin Laden. he had to make several decisions. he also decided not to tell the government of Pakistan in advance, but tell them all details immediately after.Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 11/20/2013 @ 12:50 pm
I don’t claim any sort of great technical expertise. I am not an engineer. But I wore briefly the title of computer systems engineer when I worked for a defense/government contractor. I was hired because I had the clearance and curriculum development and training experience. My job was to run the testing procedures, which I learned on the job (a far quicker process than hiring an engineer and waiting for the clearance, which might not be approved) and then use the testing procedures to develop the training materials. Then go train the end user.
All I can say is if we hadn’t even built all the components the system required to provide the thing with basic functionality, we wouldn’t have considered it ready for alpha testing let alone delivery.
I agree it makes sense to develop the payment system later than the user interface. But there was no deadline here to renegotiate. The October 1st rollout was a self imposed deadline. The actual law gave Kathleen Sebelius that discretion. So why not delay the rollout since it was entirely under HHS’ control? After all, if everything else took far longer than they expected to the point where they couldn’t build 30-40% of the system then there’s no way they could be confident they could finish the rest “between the official deadline and the practical deadline.”
Actually, the opposite is the case. Those figures are Henry Chao’s who is the Deputy Chief Information Officer (CIO) and the Deputy Director of the Office of Information Services (OIS) in CMS, the office at HHS Kathleen Sebelius assigned responsibility for the federal exchanges. If it took three and a half years to build approximately two thirds of the system then it’s ludicrous to think you’ll build the other third in 12 weeks. Which is the amount of time between the rollout and the practical deadlne; if enrollees don’t pay their first premium by December 21st then they will not be insured until February 1st by the earliest.
I can see no above board reason for the decisions this administration made.Steve57 (338553) — 11/20/2013 @ 1:40 pm
So, Sammy, he had to make a couple of no-brainer decisions. Yet according to all accounts he delayed making those decisions for weeks. Then after he made those decisions he publicly bragged about killing OBL, releasing details that should not have been released such as the identity of the SEAL team that actually conducted the operation. And the Pakistani doctor who aided us. Helping the Taliban target the SEALs, and the Pakistanis to imprison Doctor Afridi.
You think that’s actually evidence of executive competence? This is fascinating.Steve57 (338553) — 11/20/2013 @ 1:46 pm
Steve57, at #68:
Absolutely, the rollout should have been delayed. The people managing the development team should have gone to Sibelius and said: look, we can’t make this deadline because $technical_explanation, we need to pull out to $date, here’s what we can do to pull the date in from $date to $earlier_date.
If they didn’t do that, then they should all be fired.
If they *did* do that and Sibelius didn’t approve? Then *she* should be fired.
Either course was inexcusable. My point is that, sadly, this is easily explainable by the kind of pathologies that are common in large, poorly managed software projects.
> After all, if everything else took far longer than they expected to the point where they couldn’t build 30-40% of the system then there’s no way they could be confident they could finish the rest “between the official deadline and the practical deadline.”
I’m somewhat assuming that the decision to pull parts of the system out past the rollout date was made 3-4 months ago and that things continued to slip, and get worse, in the interim.
> If it took three and a half years to build approximately two thirds of the system then it’s ludicrous to think you’ll build the other third in 12 weeks
not necessarily; it depends on the complexity of the remaining pieces, and how much interdependency there is between the different pieces remaining.aphrael (fb202d) — 11/20/2013 @ 2:02 pm
How about white stars and stripes on a white background?Milhouse (b95258) — 11/20/2013 @ 2:03 pm
If you are willing, assume that the decisions made about the website were made by senior Obama Administration officials (higher than Sebelius) whose main goal was to avoid releasing detrimental information about ObamaCare — its rollout, impact, and/or cost.
Who should be fired if that’s true?DRJ (a83b8b) — 11/20/2013 @ 2:29 pm
aphrael, you think that’s bad, I worked on a project where they shipped the data entry modules and told the people who’d bought the package to start keying in their files, while the rest of the package was still being debugged!
The company didn’t last very long after that.Milhouse (b95258) — 11/20/2013 @ 2:33 pm
PS to aphrael:
Read Beldar’s comment #41 if you want to know why I make that assumption.DRJ (a83b8b) — 11/20/2013 @ 2:36 pm
As I understand it the remaining tasks include interfacing with multitudinous, very different legacy databases throughout the federal government and approximately 170 insurers spread out over the 36 states using the federal exchange. Not just the payment system. These tasks, especially the first, are going to be incredibly complex
I have no idea which of those parts like the payment system haven’t even been built. But those parts that have been “built” haven’t been tested because the website is so bad. Early indications are that it’s going to be a holy mess. Insurers have to contact applicants because they’re not getting the correct data from the federal exchange. As industry sources have been telling the press since enrollment is so low they can complete the process manually. If they apply enough band-aids to the website to enable it to limp along at a faster pace they won’t be able to handle the volume manually.
If the interface with the insurance companies is so bad then I have zero confidence that the interfaces with the legacy databases are any better. Can you be confident that’s working any better? No doubt they’re getting incorrect data as well, if they’re getting data.
Of course the consumers won’t feel the pain until 2015 when they file their 2014 taxes, only to get hit with a fine for not having ACA-approved health insurance when they infact did run the healthcare.gov gauntlet and buy it. The IRS simply didn’t get the data.Steve57 (338553) — 11/20/2013 @ 2:39 pm
“Obama authorized the killinmg of Osama bin Laden. he had to make several decisions. he also decided not to tell the government of Pakistan in advance, but tell them all details immediately after.”
Sammy – Reportedly he waffled extensively over that decision, just as he dithered over the commitment of additional troops to Afghanistan.daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 11/20/2013 @ 2:39 pm
Among other reasons, because Valerie Jarrett and Joe Biden were opposed, ponder that irony for a moment,narciso (3fec35) — 11/20/2013 @ 2:40 pm
I agree with Beldar. Obama doesn’t seem to care whether people know where he stands, nor does he care if people think he’s inconsistent or incompetent for saying different things to different people. If he did care, he wouldn’t do it and he wouldn’t tolerate his staff letting it happen. The mere fact that it happens over and over again is proof he doesn’t care.
All that seems to matters to Obama is that the people he needs the most — the money people and his base — know what he wants from them.DRJ (a83b8b) — 11/20/2013 @ 2:42 pm
aphrael – Very much appreciate your commentary. I supervised several large conversion/upgrade projects and had review responsibility for a big IT budget in a large corporate environment and completely agree that heads would have been rolling had this occurred on my watch, including my own if I had attempted to claim I had not known what was going on.daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 11/20/2013 @ 2:43 pm
“If he did care, he wouldn’t do it and he wouldn’t tolerate his staff letting it happen.”
DRJ – The only thing President Pinocchio does not tolerate is criticism.daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 11/20/2013 @ 2:46 pm
The only decision Obama made quickly in the process of killing OBL was to hastily spike the football and make as much political hay out of as he could.
And in the process he compromised highly classified information. Such as identifying SEAL Team 6 as the team that conducted the raid. For my 20 years in the Navy the very existence of SEAL Team 6 was just a rumor. No one who was in a position to have a need to know would ever confirm it. But President Rambo just had to brag about it, and now the SEALs as well as the family members of those killed are convinced that Obama and his administration running their pie holes are what led to their deaths in an ambush on 6 August 2011.
The Obama administration also gave out enough information to finger Dr. Afridi, whom the Pakistanis put in prison with a 33 year sentence as a result.
Brother Jamil is exactly right. This past August the Pakistanis nullified his sentence and remanded him for a new trial. Even if the US succeeds in getting him out of the country the damage is done. No one will ever aid the US again knowing the President may very well compromise you and put you in jeopardy if it advances his political career.
So I find it fascinating that Sammy brings this up as an example of Obama’s ability to manage the operations of the executive branch.Steve57 (338553) — 11/20/2013 @ 3:05 pm
I disagree, daleyrocks. I think Obama is willing to take substantial criticism if he thinks it will get him where he wants to go. That’s why he actually seems to invite criticism from those he calls his enemies, because he knows he can use it to his advantage. (See, for example, all the times Obama has taunted Fox News or Rush Limbaugh in order to get them to criticize him.)
What Obama won’t tolerate is anyone whose actions or criticism pose a danger to his agenda. Those are the times he becomes sensitive and fragile, and those are the times he hits back.DRJ (a83b8b) — 11/20/2013 @ 3:10 pm
It seems to me that many Obama and Obamacare supporters have by now finally crossed into the area of “it’s an unmitigated disaster, and he lied ,and how did it possibly happen, and how did anyone in authority even let this thing go live?” They are moving along the stages of grief and acceptance. But way too many of them are still hieing to the notion that it was a good faith effort that somehow went seriously awry. Accepting that it was never a good faith effort from day one is the next and very necessary step they must take.elissa (c37a48) — 11/20/2013 @ 3:12 pm
82- Witness the movement of Heaven & Hell to squelch the TEA Party et al going into the 2010 & 2012 elections.askeptic (b8ab92) — 11/20/2013 @ 3:14 pm
==I disagree, daleyrocks. I think Obama is willing to take substantial criticism if he thinks it will get him where he wants to go. That’s why he actually seems to invite criticism from those he calls his enemies, because he knows he can use it to his advantage. (See, for example, all the times Obama has taunted Fox News or Rush Limbaugh in order to get them to criticize him.)
What Obama won’t tolerate is anyone whose actions or criticism pose a danger to his agenda. Those are the times he becomes sensitive and fragile, and those are the times he hits back.==
DRJ–I think you and daleyrocks are actually saying the same thing. Don’t you think O views Fox in general and Limbaugh and other pundits in specific as posing a threat to his agenda?elissa (c37a48) — 11/20/2013 @ 3:21 pm
“I disagree, daleyrocks. I think Obama is willing to take substantial criticism if he thinks it will get him where he wants to go.”
DRJ – I’m not talking about his enemies. I’m talking about those ostensibly on his side. He doesn’t fire people for screwing up. If you look at the high profile departures from his Admin, they are all people who disagreed or clashed with Obama or Jarrett – Gibbs, Orszag, Emanuel, Daley, Summers, Roemer, Petraeus, McChrystal, etc., etc.
The enemies, as you say he incites because he needs targets for blame, but he also nurses grudges.daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 11/20/2013 @ 3:22 pm
Jarrett needs to go from the WH. She won’t. But she needs to.elissa (c37a48) — 11/20/2013 @ 3:28 pm
elissa – I think you are right that DRJ and I were talking past each other.daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 11/20/2013 @ 3:32 pm
Oh, maybe Rashad will take her away from all this.
http://pagesix.com/2013/11/20/valerie-jarrett-dating-ahmad-rashad/?_ga=1.219478553.1476704903.1355614904elissa (c37a48) — 11/20/2013 @ 3:33 pm
I think we can all agree that the one thing the thin-skinned narcissist can’t stand is to be mocked. And he’s being mocked. Leno was ripping him to shreds. SNL did a skit mocking him. At a recent football game at least one USC student held up a sign that read “Stanford supports ObamaCare” to ridicule the other side. And now this Spirit Airlines ad, via Gateway Pundit:
The way to deal with this guy is to point and laugh. Ridicule. Like Vlad Putin did in that NYT editorial.Steve57 (338553) — 11/20/2013 @ 3:39 pm
Steve57–most importantly, he’s lost his sacred “you criticize me you’re racist” meme. Everybody’s criticizing and mocking him now. It’s over and he is now the joke.elissa (c37a48) — 11/20/2013 @ 3:45 pm
Someone tell Tom Edsall, as Taranto points out;
Predictably, Edsall goes on to blame opposition to ObamaCare on “a critical mass of white voters” who have not “moved past [their] resistance to programs shifting tax dollars and other resources from the middle class to poorer minorities.” If you don’t want the government to redistribute your wealth to somebody else, you must be racist.narciso (3fec35) — 11/20/2013 @ 3:47 pm
He’s a joke, but he’s a malevolent joke, elissa. Also at Gateway Pundit I came across this.
The tweet contained this text:
Apparently what it’s about is that Enroll America, a group connected to Sebelius set up to enroll people into ObamaCare, plans to release personnel data for partisan political purposes. Via NiceDeb:
You can see both the short version as well as the compete unedited version of Project Veritas’ interactions with Enroll America here.
I expect the Obama administration administration, with the MFM’s cooperation, to push back by smearing James O’Keefe by releasing personal data about him.Steve57 (338553) — 11/20/2013 @ 4:00 pm
shifting tax dollars and other resources from the middle class to poorer minorities
The “poorer minorities” may be the target, but there is a tremendous amount of skim before the dribble arrives there.askeptic (b8ab92) — 11/20/2013 @ 4:06 pm
Obama uses the poor, and minorities, to sell his agenda of enriching his cronies.
Steve57, at this point, just what in O’Keefe’s personal life hasn’t been broadcast?askeptic (b8ab92) — 11/20/2013 @ 4:07 pm
Believe what you want but I still think Obama is willing to take criticism, even from his own side, if the cause is worth it. Yes, it’s true Obama views Fox News and Limbaugh as his enemies so he probably doesn’t care what they think. But what I’m saying is he views criticism by everyone that way. I think he has a bunker mentality where loyalty is very important and anyone who criticizes him becomes his enemy, even people on his own side. When that happens, he excludes those people and doesn’t care what they think.
That’s why I’m not convinced Obama will change much of what he does because the Democrats are abandoning him. He will make tactical changes but I don’t think he will make any strategic changes. His goal is to hang in there until the end of his term and if that hurts people on his side of the aisle, so be it.DRJ (a83b8b) — 11/20/2013 @ 5:17 pm
I don’t know but we’ll find out soon.Steve57 (338553) — 11/20/2013 @ 5:25 pm
Well they’ll make stuff up, as we saw with the Naffe matter, sometimes he does foolish things, but on balance, who is actually uncovering all this chicanery.narciso (3fec35) — 11/20/2013 @ 5:27 pm
I’m not trying to speak for him but if daleyrock’s point is that Obama is sensitive to criticism, then perhaps one consequence is making Obama the focus of criticism by friends and allies could change his behavior. Is that correct, daleyrocks?
I concede that point with most people but I’m not sure Obama is the average person. Instead, I think criticism could also send Obama further into his bunker, because I’m not sure Obama listens to criticism or takes it seriously. Maybe that’s because Obama is convinced of his own brilliance or because his goals are Machiavellian, or both.DRJ (a83b8b) — 11/20/2013 @ 5:35 pm
Which doesn’t make criticism wrong. I think it’s helpful, primarily because it impacts Obama’s supporters and undermines their faith in him.DRJ (a83b8b) — 11/20/2013 @ 5:36 pm
My puppy is sensitive to criticism and does not like it, but that does not mean he’s going to change his behavior. George Bush ignored or laughed off criticism, at least publicly. We may never know how much he felt it. Obama is narcissistic, thin skinned and emotionally reactionary to any criticism he gets from those in his circle, the media, or his political enemies. IMO he lashes out and seethes because he does not like to be challenged or criticized and he’s never learned to deal with it like normal people. But I don’t equate Obama’s “sensitivity” to any foreseeable behavior change on his part. I do see other people more openly criticizing him for their own sanity and survival and I think that’s a good thing and healthy for America.
Like my puppy, Barack Obama much prefers fawning and belly rubs to a whack on the nose.elissa (c37a48) — 11/20/2013 @ 6:01 pm
So basically we’re all saying Obama disregards or ignores criticism, like your puppy?DRJ (a83b8b) — 11/20/2013 @ 6:14 pm
Or is it that Obama doesn’t tolerate criticism and he tries to get back at those who criticize him?DRJ (a83b8b) — 11/20/2013 @ 6:16 pm
I honestly don’t know what he does personally. My gut says he takes criticism personally and would love to get even. But I think from the standpoint of his governing style, he doesn’t give criticism any thought, except to the extent he tries to undermine the impact of any criticism.DRJ (a83b8b) — 11/20/2013 @ 6:17 pm
I think we have the pattern backwards, he rubs our noses in it,no matter what snafus he does.narciso (3fec35) — 11/20/2013 @ 6:20 pm
elissa’s puppy needs to learn the order of things. And so does Emil Jones’s.nk (dbc370) — 11/20/2013 @ 6:21 pm
But let’s not get ahead of ourselves. He still has a lot of children who find him delightful and a lot of groomers and handlers whose meal ticket he is.nk (dbc370) — 11/20/2013 @ 6:24 pm
Biiiig difference, nk. There is hope for my puppy. And I like my puppy.elissa (c37a48) — 11/20/2013 @ 6:26 pm
Yes and yes.
Which is why I think the GOP should keep it up anyway. As elissa says:
When combined with a healthy dose of mockery he’ll lash out unthinkingly and emotionally. That, again, was the point of Putin’s op-ed. It wasn’t just a gratuitous insult. It was to goad Obama to make disastrous mistakes.
Remember, Putin is ex-KGB. His job was to analyze people’s weaknesses and to use them to the Soviet Union/Russia’s advantage. Primarily to get them to turn on their own country and aid Russia.
I never thought I’d ever say we should take a page from an ex-KGB thug’s book, but it would be for the good of the country to put Obama in a place that he can’t handle. So he’ll expose his true self. Not the carefully stage managed David Axelrod media creation. But what most of us conservatives saw all along. An angry, elitist, anti-American liar. The whole American people need to see it.Steve57 (338553) — 11/20/2013 @ 6:30 pm
well volodya, was partially being spiteful, but he also had a point, they understand he’s a useful tool, on occasions, but you have to wonder if they might prefer a more resolute opposite number:
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/11/saudi-prince-alwaleed-obama-is-not-succeeding-lacks-coherent-foreign-policy-video/narciso (3fec35) — 11/20/2013 @ 6:36 pm
Jarrett needs to go from the WH. She won’t. But she needs to.
Fat chance of that happening. After all, look at another egregious member of the administration, Eric Holder. Any other White House administration with even a bit of shame would have dumped him well before today. But not the Banana Republic presidency we have today. So Holder lives on, and on, and on.
Americans are newbies and naifs when it comes to dealing with a system that has the characteristics of an Argentina or Venezuela. That’s why I don’t think many of us are prepared for just how bad — how corrupt — things can get or become.Mark (58ea35) — 11/20/2013 @ 6:51 pm
Putin knows how to fight. Not every blow has to be a KO.nk (dbc370) — 11/20/2013 @ 6:51 pm
nk, I believe the goal is a thousand cuts to his ego. I don’t believe they want to see Obama melt down. The gullible, malleable lightweight is too valuable to the Russians.Steve57 (338553) — 11/20/2013 @ 6:57 pm
IMO he lashes out and seethes because he does not like to be challenged or criticized and he’s never learned to deal with it like normal people.
Yes. He reminds of someone who was indulged during his formative years and by the time he got to college, was deemed unique, thus a further kid gloves treatment and further being indulged.
With said continual indulging and not having learned how to accept criticism because he was shielded from it prevented the natural maturation and with that maturation typically a level of humility develops. One learns their limitations and understands that they are fallible.
And humility is the key to being able to admit one’s mistakes freely and clearly, to own them and to the best of their ability make right the wrong.
This is not Obama.Dana (45070c) — 11/20/2013 @ 6:59 pm
I believe the goal is a thousand cuts to his ego. I don’t believe they want to see Obama melt down. The gullible, malleable lightweight is too valuable to the Russians.
Absolutely. Putin understands human nature better than our president. He knows what Obama’s biggest weakness is and he will press it ever so much at any opportunity he can. Very skillful.Dana (45070c) — 11/20/2013 @ 7:02 pm
He knows about real power, a rebel leader was living in downtown Doha, he sent a team to take him out in broad daylight, he also knows Marxism is bunkum,narciso (3fec35) — 11/20/2013 @ 7:14 pm
“Or is it that Obama doesn’t tolerate criticism and he tries to get back at those who criticize him?”
DRJ – Thisdaleyrocks (bf33e9) — 11/20/2013 @ 7:24 pm