If You Like Your Insurance, You Can Keep It . . .
. . . it’s just that it will cost twice as much:
Adam Weldzius, a nurse practitioner, considers himself better informed than most when it comes to the inner workings of health insurance. But even he wasn’t prepared for the pocketbook hit he’ll face next year under President Barack Obama’s health care overhaul.
If the 33-year-old single father wants the same level of coverage next year as what he has now with the same insurer and the same network of doctors and hospitals, his monthly premium of $233 will more than double. If he wants to keep his monthly payments in check, the Carpentersville resident is looking at an annual deductible for himself and his 7-year-old daughter of $12,700, a more than threefold increase from $3,500 today.
“I believe everybody should be able to have health insurance, but at the same time, I’m being penalized. And for what?” said Weldzius, who is not offered insurance through his employer. “For someone who’s always had insurance, who’s always taken care of myself, now I have to change my plan?”
Almost all of the lowest-cost plans apparently have $4000 deductibles for individuals and $8000 for families. Where can I sign up for insurance like that?! (The answer, by the way, is not on the Internet.)
How dare Republicans oppose such a great system?!
Tlaloc can no doubt advise us on what would help Republicans most.
Patterico (9c670f) — 10/14/2013 @ 12:34 pmPatterico–
I am willing to bet that many, if not most, corporate and government health plans beat the doors off “$4000 deductibles for individuals and $8000 for families.”
Also, if you look at all of the unsubsidized plans, you will find they ALL have a max out-of-pocket of $6250 in California. Some just take a while to get there. Bet you those gov and corporate plans beat that handily, too.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 10/14/2013 @ 12:36 pmFalalalala will surely be by to explain how people really love ObamaCare, because glitches, extraordinary deductibles, limited choices, decreased access, and higher costs.
JD (5c1832) — 10/14/2013 @ 12:42 pmForbes: Obamacare’s Website Is Crashing Because It Doesn’t Want You To Know How Costly Its Plans Are
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/10/14/obamacares-website-is-crashing-because-it-doesnt-want-you-to-know-health-plans-true-costs/
AZ Bob (c99389) — 10/14/2013 @ 12:43 pmWhat happened to my savings of $2,500, plus I thought Obama said he was going to pay my mortgage and give me a damn phone.
People told me if I voted for Romney this country be be all screwed up and they were right.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/14/2013 @ 12:44 pmFor instance, one major insurance carrier, Cigna, sent a notice Wednesday to insurance brokers instructing them to wait until November to try to sign up customers who might qualify for a subsidy, according to Joseph Mondy, a Cigna spokesman.
It’s not guaranteed anyway!
Everything is going to be recalculated by April 15, 2015. *
So much so that one place I read advice to take less of subsidy than the system tells you (that is make a higher monthly payment than indicated)
so you won’t be hit by a surprise the next year.
Actually that may be bad advice, as the money is not recovered except through a reduction in the
and then theer are people who will be going on and off Medicaid, month to month – and then be charged for Medicaid premium I don’t know.
* it actually could be October 15th if you use form 4868 – 2015. It used to be someone needed to file two extensions, one to August 15 and a second to Oct 15 but now one extension does it.
For anyone who did this the deadline for filing your 2012 taxes is tomorrow. You don’t get postponement of interest and penalties if you owe money, but recapturing the tax refund is not basic tax. There may be some nuances to all this I don’t know.
If a private insurance company did the kind of “bait and switch” and misleading information that Obamacare is doing, the lawyers and the politicians would be after them in no time.
* it actually could be October 15th if you use form 4868 – 2015. It used to be someone needed to file two extensions, one to August 15 and a second to Oct 15 but now one extension does it.
For anyone who did this the deadline for filing your 2012 taxes is tomorrow. You don’t get postponement of interest and penalties if you owe money, but recaoturing the tax refund is not basic tax.
Sammy Finkelman (37a793) — 10/14/2013 @ 12:58 pmSheltered health savings accounts (with rollover) made high deductible plans workable for ordinary people.
If everyone who pays income tax had access to that sort of plan, with pretax deduction of premiums,
Oh fark it nevermind. It has taken time and will take more time for people to really wrap their heads around what Ocare means. They earned it and they deserve it.
Sarahw (b0e533) — 10/14/2013 @ 1:06 pm4. 4.Forbes: Obamacare’s Website Is Crashing Because It Doesn’t Want You To Know How Costly Its Plans Are
More like the other way around. It is crashing is because they want you to know the true costs to you, after the subsidy.
But you could estimate the subsidy yourself, or the IRS could provide a separate small simple website, like they do for estimating the amount of withholding you need to do.
The site is crashing because they created a need to register and to calculate the subsidy before people could browse – and they are not telling people the subsidy (or the price after subsidy) is not guaranteed even if every number and fact input is as accurate as can be.
There are members of Congress who want to guarantee the price, but that’s not law now.
Sammy Finkelman (37a793) — 10/14/2013 @ 1:06 pmOh good Allah, Sammy.
JD (5c1832) — 10/14/2013 @ 1:08 pmRegistering is a complicated process, and they’ve implemented identity verification badly.
Telling people that they belong on Medicaid, or are already on Medicare or Medicaid, or this is not the right district for them, is another complication.
I don’t think they want people to think: if I changed my address, or say I changed my address, I could save….
Sammy Finkelman (37a793) — 10/14/2013 @ 1:15 pmSammy, if anyone ever tries to sell you the Brooklyn Bridge on-line as a “really really good deal” you should prolly snap it up. You should not worry that they might be feeding you a line of bull or trying to scam you just because they won’t tell you the price right away. You can believe everything they tell you because they are honest and they only want the best for you and they have no ulterior motive whatsoever.
elissa (ad9aa3) — 10/14/2013 @ 1:21 pmCalculating any subsidy involves checking numerous databases – and it is still only an estimate!!
Because people’s incomes don’t stay absolutely the same. Because it is not always easy to project income 15 months in advance.
Now what is the subsidy? It is a fixed dollar amount the federal government will pay toward a “silver” policy only, and, if you are married, only if you file a joint tax return in the policy year.
The fixed dollar amount is calculated by looking at the second lowest “silver” policy premium, and then paying the difference between that, and whatever they say your maximum premium should be, based on your income relative to poverty.
The subsidy has different levels, but at 400% of poverty it phases out no more and just ends.
Too low an income at the end of the year – I think 133% of poverty – and there’s also no subsidy – you should have been on Medicaid! Even if your state doesn’t allow it.
Now suppose that when you enroll you work and have income, but you get sick or into an accident during the policy year and don’t work for very long….it might turn out you weren’t eligible, after all, for the subsidy.
Or suppose your income is somewhere near the margin for Medicaid?
The law allowed for some leeway in making mistakes in estimates – you can get Medicaid until 138% of poverty, and you can also get insurance on the exchange above 133% of poverty.
There’s a giant 5% of poverty error you can make in your estimate and not worry..
Let me explain how the poverty level is calculated. It is what the cost of food for a X-member size family was in 1964, multiplied by 3, adjusted for inflation.
Then next years’s modified adjusted gross income (which may only become known for sure around February or March 2015, is compared to it to see where you were in 2014. But you’re getting a quote in the 4th quarter of 2013!!
Now why didn’t they just make it free instead of asking people to go on Medicaid? Because states pay part of the cost of Medicaid. Even if they won’t the first year, they will before ten years are up, so the CBO scoring, back in 2010, could reduce the projected budget cost of the PPACA.
Sammy Finkelman (37a793) — 10/14/2013 @ 1:28 pmComment by elissa (ad9aa3) — 10/14/2013 @ 1:21 pm
11.Sammy, if anyone ever tries to sell you the Brooklyn Bridge on-line as a “really really good deal” you should prolly snap it up. </I.
I don't think so, they have no title to the Brooklyn Bridge. I know that.
You didn't notie the irony there in my description?
I'm decribing it exactly.
It's not good.
Sammy Finkelman (37a793) — 10/14/2013 @ 1:35 pmSammy is a Brooklyn Bridge title denier!
elissa (ad9aa3) — 10/14/2013 @ 1:37 pmYou should not worry that they might be feeding you a line of bull or trying to scam you just because they won’t tell you the price right away. You can believe everything they tell you because they are honest and they only want the best for you and they have no ulterior motive whatsoever.
They price they actually would quote wouldn’t be accurate anyway.
But what I said was, they didn’t want people to see the unsubsidized prices. That’s why the web site had so much trouble. Not because they didn’t want people to see how costly it was, but because they wanted to offer people a lower, personally applicable price. Tghey wanted people to see how cheap it was. Except that it is going to be wrong in many cases.
Because showing people a personal price necessitated completing the registration process and the income verification process, which is not binding on the government by the way, before showing people any policies and prices, and then also showing them only what applied to them, added a lot of complexity and created bottlenecks, the web site didn’t work.
Sammy Finkelman (37a793) — 10/14/2013 @ 1:39 pmI don’t think so, they have no title to the Brooklyn Bridge. I know that.
Obama has no title to any insurance company, either, but that doesn’t stop him from ordering them around or making promises on their behalf.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 10/14/2013 @ 1:40 pmIf only we’d read it before we passed it.
htom (412a17) — 10/14/2013 @ 2:11 pmNow the only reason you need a website more complicated than:
http://www.irs.gov/uac/Forms,-Publications,-and-Other-Tax-Products
where all you need to do is make a lot of files available to a lot of people at the same time…
…is to establish eligibility for a subsidy, something that the insurance companies need to know.
…except that the determination is not binding anyway. It’s only an estimate.
Sammy Finkelman (37a793) — 10/14/2013 @ 2:14 pm16. Ordering insurance companies around is probably based on Article 1, Section 8, clause 3 of the United States constitution.
Sammy Finkelman (37a793) — 10/14/2013 @ 2:19 pmI mentioned borrowing to pay a decductible, but not like this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/14/business/economy/patients-mired-in-costly-credit-from-doctors.html?pagewanted=all
Lawsuits are flying left and right. People being misled about the cost of the medical credit cards and hidden tripwires. High pressure sales tactics. Maybe the underlying medical treatment itself (often dental care) was unnecessary or too costly or just not done right or not done at all..
This is what would happen if Obamacare was not a government program – there certainly would be grounds for lawsuits based on false marketing. I mean people not getting accurate information.
That’s one very important reason not to have single payer. When it’s private companies, the lawyers and the politicians are all up in arms if something is not right.
Sammy Finkelman (37a793) — 10/14/2013 @ 2:33 pmComment by Sarahw (b0e533) — 10/14/2013 @ 1:06 pm
Sheltered health savings accounts (with rollover) made high deductible plans workable for ordinary people.
What if the expense happens the first year?
My idea about borrowing against Social Security to meet the catastrophic deductible was that interest rates at most limited to what Social Security gets, and a low maximum charge, after which costs would be paid. I think you could just about cover everyone.
The problem would be to have some, but not insurmountable, price resistance.
Megan McCardle (sp?) proposed out of pocket expenses be limited to 10-15-20% of whatever of income – you could do that and it’s much better than Obamacare.
Sammy Finkelman (37a793) — 10/14/2013 @ 2:35 pmAnother way the health care market has been wrecked by government:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/13/us/the-soaring-cost-of-a-simple-breath.html
Front page story, sunday, October 13, 2013 New York Times.
And this doesn’t get into what happened half a dozen years ago, when all the good inhalers went off the market because they were fanatical about CFCs. (Mentioned in a book I just found out about – not a perfect book, because o some things he’s on the wrong side, but reasonably good)
http://www.amazon.com/Death-Liberalism-Outcome-Well-Meaning-Policies/dp/0061873802/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1381786820&sr=8-1&keywords=death+liberalism
Death by Liberalism.
It collects examples of how liberalism actually killed people in the United states.
The biggest loss of life: changes in crime policy – maybe 262,000 Americans doed in the second half of the Twentieth Century “because of liberal interference with the criminal justice system.” Second highest toll: CAFE standrds for cars, maybe 121,000. Not sure about that.
Another one (that I most definitely agree with) is people who died because of the FDA’s convoluted certification process. Numbers impossible to estimate.
Sammy Finkelman (37a793) — 10/14/2013 @ 2:45 pmSammy definitely needs a hobby. Or a friend…
Gazzer (a55a11) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:13 pmLong standing Obama hacks are forced to admit that Obama’s signature achievement is a unmitigated disaster.
One that is beyond repair.
The American public is soon going to rue that the GOP was not able to stop Obamacare now.
SPQR (768505) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:38 pmIs there any way we get Sammy put on the government payroll and then have him furloughed?
Whitey Nisson (aa99c0) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:46 pm24- Why did I just know that was about Ezra, the Boy Wonder?
askeptic (b8ab92) — 10/14/2013 @ 4:00 pm22- Do you know how many ozone molecules were killed by asthma inhalers…..
askeptic (b8ab92) — 10/14/2013 @ 4:03 pmOh, the Humanity!
All Obama’s and TOTUS’ promises about O-Care have turned out to be false. Since the the time ACA was passed Nancy Pelosi’s been pretty universally ridiculed for her “We’ve got to pass the bill so you can find out what’s in the bill” remark. Lawmakers and the media freely admitted they had not read the multi thousand page monstrosity as a final bill before passage (but they probably did assume that someone had read it.) Of course many parts were simply left blank to be filled in and managed at “the discretion” of HHS. BZZZZT!
The excuse always was that there was so much urgency and rush there at the end to get it passed that there was just not time for a full public posting and hearing of the bill. I’m beginning to wonder if this all, too, was wholly intentional. What I mean is, was it done defensively for purposes of providing lawmakers with plausible deniability regarding the questions of intent, veracity and feasibility? Can this all really be just plain ol’ government corruption, payoffs and incompetence? Unfortunately, it’s hard to prove it was intentional since apparently nobody did actually read the damn thing.
elissa (ad9aa3) — 10/14/2013 @ 5:24 pmelissa, yes!
nk (dbc370) — 10/14/2013 @ 5:27 pmThis, elissa, is one response to the claim that the ACA is “settled law”.
Speaker Pelosi said it needed to be passed to find out what was in it.
It was.
We did.
And we don’t like it.
So time to “unsettle” it.
Next time, reading bills ahead of time will prevent the need to undo them.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 10/14/2013 @ 6:01 pmElissa, the urgency was that they were losing popular support and Democrats were bolting.
SPQR (768505) — 10/14/2013 @ 6:07 pmSpammy needs to be arrested for P.W.I., Posting While Intoxicated!
Yoda (ee1de0) — 10/14/2013 @ 6:14 pm22. Perhaps Samuel can address a real cost overrun of inflation–Education.
As fast as Healthcare costs are rising, those of Education are doubling the former, especially since the Feds got into the school loan business in the 70s.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 10/14/2013 @ 6:27 pmThe Senate in their deliberative wisdom has conjured a poison-pill for their Slowdown/Ceiling grand bargain.
A Union-lobbied postponement of a 3-year reinsurance tax in ObamaneyCare.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 10/14/2013 @ 6:33 pm32. Education is another one. That is said to reduce the number of general practioners.
Sammy Finkelman (37a793) — 10/14/2013 @ 7:39 pm2010 article about (what’s no good about) medicall credit cards
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/27/health/27patient.html?_r=0
Sammy Finkelman (37a793) — 10/14/2013 @ 7:40 pmOrdering insurance companies around is probably based on Article 1, Section 8, clause 3 of the United States constitution.
Not that they looked.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 10/15/2013 @ 10:03 am