Patterico's Pontifications

10/12/2013

GOVERNMENT SLOWDOWN, DAY TWELVE

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:25 am



Who could have predicted that Republicans would fare unfavorably in the polls a couple of weeks after refusing to fund the government?

Who could have predicted they would cave instantly upon seeing such polls?

Anybody.

Screen Shot 2013-10-12 at 7.22.46 AM
Above: Republican spines

Everywhere you look, there is evidence that Republicans are going to give away the store.

What they don’t realize is that part of the reason they are in such poor standing is because folks like me and you have contempt for them. So they’re getting the unfavorables from both sides.

417 Responses to “GOVERNMENT SLOWDOWN, DAY TWELVE”

  1. Yes, the formula for victory would have been so easy. But once again the Republicans listen to John McCain and settle for the formula for linguini.

    Steve57 (d1b97d)

  2. But Cruz did look good in that fedora and leather jacket swinging over snake nests from his bullwhip.

    I’m in Chicago [where we still have real food, happyfeet and mg], and I’m going to buy some 100% beef gyros (from meat from a factory farm heavy on the pink slime) with onions, tomatoes, french fries and yogurt sauce, and go find my daughter and her mother and make a day of it. It’s pure fall beauty outside and even the leaves are wishing for the shutdown to end so people can legally watch them again.

    nk (dbc370)

  3. The National Park Service became Obama’s Brown Shirts. How could Republicans loose the PR war after all the nasty actions the NPS took toward Americans?

    Mark Steyn pointed out:

    “The NPS have not yet fried anyone for taking King Barack’s deer, but it is somewhat sobering to reflect that an English peasant enjoyed more freedom on the sovereign’s land in the 13th century than a freeborn American does on ‘the people’s land’ in the 21st century.”

    This so called shutdown reveals a demarcation in American history. This is the moment we became subjects of the state.

    AZ Bob (c99389)

  4. 3. …This so called shutdown reveals a demarcation in American history. This is the moment we became subjects of the state.

    Comment by AZ Bob (c99389) — 10/12/2013 @ 7:43 am

    It also marks the point where we go from a Constitutional republic with three separate and co-equal branches of government to a banana republic. El Presidente with his rubber stamp junior partners.

    I wrote my Congressman to that effect when I got off work last night.

    My Senators already know, especially since one of them is Ted Cruz.

    Steve57 (d1b97d)

  5. what’s extreme about wanting an efficient, effective, prioritized government? Absolutely Nothin’… say it again, y’all.

    Run it like a well-run business, cut the non-essentials.

    Colonel Haiku (63735e)

  6. the thing is

    I’ve not a doubt in my lil pikachu head that if this battle were about fetuses or homos they’d still be hanging tough

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  7. I’m hoping to try Charlie’s Pantry for the first time today Mr. nk and the plan with that is while I’m there I’m a see if they have something appropriate to bring to pumpkin carving tonight

    http://charliespantry.com/

    you’re right it’s gonna be a good day

    who of us isn’t more or less inured to the clownish antics of boehnerwhore and his coward whore white boy posse

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  8. Dunno, Mr. Feets.

    They say they care about money and deficit spending just as much as they care about fetuses and homos but I’ve never seen the evidence for any of it.

    Steve57 (d1b97d)

  9. How’s teh gay hitler diet going, Mr. Feets? Getting enough meth with the roughage?

    Steve57 (d1b97d)

  10. The Republicans in Congress are torn. On the one hand, most of their constituents are small government folks. On the other, they are members of The Ruling Class. So which would they choose ? The people who elected them or the people they identify with ? Tough choice given that Congress has a 95% reelection chance.

    MikeK (dc6ffe)

  11. nk – shrimp, garlic, lime stuffed in a jalepeno and smoked at 220 degrees for 1 1/2 hours. that’s the menu for today. Sunday Pork Shoulder.

    mg (31009b)

  12. mg, five cups of bbq sauce, 3 quarters cup of packed brown sugar, a quarter cup of honey, a tea spoon or two of cajun spice, onion and garlic plus any meat you got in a slow cooker is pretty much the fall back position in the Steve57 house.

    Steve57 (d1b97d)

  13. How do you stuff the shrimp? Sounds good.

    Steve57 (d1b97d)

  14. no meth but I scored me some phentermines!

    helpful lil fellers they are

    don’t tell Meghan’s coward daddy though

    they’re gonna help out over the next week while I ramp calories back up and start working out again

    do that for awhile, then one more cycle of starvation should do the trick and I’ll be well below my pre-quitting smoking weight even

    and that’s when I’ll finally get closure on the whole quitting smoking project

    it’ll have been whoa bout 5 years since my last cigarette I guess and at last

    they’ll torment and taunt me no mores

    I remember I quit the week pelosi told us about a new cigarette tax we had to do cause of how graeme frost’s parents are losers what can’t take care of their family without the welfares

    me I never paid a dollar of that tax

    that was back when I was a Republican and my will was unbreakable and to fascism not an inch I would yield

    you can’t do that and call yourself a Republican anymores

    you’d just confuzzle people

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  15. You forgot to mention how they put embalming fluid in the shampoo, Mr. Feets.

    Steve57 (d1b97d)

  16. Just trying to be helpful.

    Steve57 (d1b97d)

  17. Steve57 – chop the shrimp into bite size pieces, mince garlic with a little cream cheese, fresh lime and combine. Seed the jalapeño, stuff the shrimp, wrap in bacon. Throw them on the smoker. 1-1 1/2, when they look like wrinkled grandparents they are done!
    Burger and cheddar works great as well.

    mg (31009b)

  18. I’m a start my christmas shopping this weekend

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  19. What they don’t realize is that part of the reason they are in such poor standing is because folks like me and you have contempt for them

    Partly true, and certainly I will feel exactly that way if they McCain-ize their response to President Goddamn America. BTW, drudgereport.com’s current headline is that the US’s own version of Hugo Chavez right now is saying “no deal” with the House, perhaps something from the Senate.

    Mark (58ea35)

  20. I completely agree with this post.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  21. Well, with Susan Collins taking the lead, we can expect them giving Obama a third term.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  22. mg @17, thanks for the recipe.

    I recommend you do try the slow cooker bbq recipe I outlined above. I’ve done it with beef ribs, pork ribs, and chicken. With stew meat you’ve got to parboil it first. Otherwise it’s hard to mess up. Put it on low when you go to work and it’s done when you come home.

    Steve57 (d1b97d)

  23. part of the reason

    Regrettably the rest of the reason, or an overly large portion of the reason, can be gleaned from sentiments revealed in opinion polls–in 2013, no less, and not 2009, or 2011. The sentiments of an absurdly large percentage of Americans who blame George W Bush and not Obama for current economic anomie and mediocrity.

    Such trends — even more so in light of the well-publicized tactics of the Park Service along with the corrupt-IRS-ized facets of the government in general — illustrate why it’s no longer sarcasm and glibness to state that the US has entered its moment of becoming a northern version of a Central or South American Banana Republic, or a western branch of France, Greece or Spain.

    Joy, joy, happy, happy—and don’t cry for us, Argentina.

    Mark (58ea35)

  24. I live in Cantor’s district and I don’t know how to get rid of him.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  25. Tough choice given that Congress has a 95% reelection chance.

    Assuming they aren’t primaried.

    I would hope than any wavering Republicans in safe districts consider what a TEA Party challenger might do to them.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  26. Looks like the Democrats have even rejected Susan Collins’ proposal. That’s going to piss off a lot of the more moderate Republicans and might put some steel in their spine. We’ll see.

    At this point the Democrats aren’t even trying to make any appearance of negotiating.

    crosspatch (f08108)

  27. bam I just knocked out a hunk of christmas and I think I got a really good deal

    it’s a popcorn machine like me and my lil brudder used to work when we were little and we worked concessions at the zoo

    http://www.greatnorthernpopcorn.com/p-48-great-northern-popcorn-red-antique-style-popcorn-popper-machine-with-cart-8-oz.aspx

    so now the lil wazzles will get to do it too

    they’re building a house to live in so this is christmas/housewarming

    the new house will be ready – i dunno they live where the mastodons still hold sway over the forbidding tundra and you just never know

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  28. The author of this post is much too generous. These weasels are as inept a bunch as has come down the pike in a long, long time. The Gang That Couldn’t Get Its Act Together. Vote these bums out and let’s get some new leadership.

    Colonel Haiku (63735e)

  29. I have to chortle when I read the following, knowing full well that the MSM is dominated by people who are feigning indignation about issues like the NSA, IRS, Benghazi, etc, and crying crocodile tears over their sainted Obama’s role in the ongoing decline of America.

    What’s truly pathetic (and frightening) is that in spite of all this mess, the ideological meter of a large portion of the left really hasn’t fluttered much past the tick point of “Blind, mindless love for today’s Democrats, today’s liberals.” In effect, we’re witnessing a version of the Stockholm Syndrome (or city-of-Detroit Effect), and the abuser or hostage taker in this instance is Barack Obama.

    news.cnet.com, October 10: The National Security Agency’s electronic surveillance programs are already having a chilling effect on free speech, at least according to a report by the former executive editor of The Washington Post. “The Obama Administration and the Press,” penned by Leonard Downie Jr., whose career at the storied newspaper included time spent as an editor during the Watergate era, says sources for stories involving national security are far less likely to talk to reporters now that mass spying by the NSA has come to light.

    Downie…examined the Obama administration’s aggressive policies toward leakers such as Edward Snowden and spoke with 30 experienced Washington journalists about the administration’s dealings with the press. The journalists included reporters from ABC, the Associated Press, CBS (parent of CNET), CNN, The New York Times, and the Post.

    Downie says there’s no evidence the Obama administration is tapping NSA tools like Prism in its efforts to track and prosecute leakers but that the tools are nevertheless a threat to the press’ role as a watchdog over government

    “There is greater concern that their communications are being monitored — office phones, e-mail systems,” Post reporter [Rajiv] Chandrasekaran said. “I have to resort to personal e-mail or face to face, even for things I would consider routine.”

    Potential insider sources “think [the government is] looking at reporters’ records,” [Washington Post’s Dana] Priest said. “I’m writing fewer things in e-mail. I’m even afraid to tell officials what I want to talk about because it’s all going into one giant computer.”

    It’s not just the NSA. Downie’s report explores the Obama administration’s attitude toward the control of information and the censuring of leakers — “the most aggressive I’ve seen since the Nixon administration,” he says.

    In regard to leakers/whistle-blowers, The New York Times’ Scott Shane is quoted as saying:
    I think we have a real problem. Most people are deterred by those leaks prosecutions. They’re scared to death…. If we consider aggressive press coverage of government activities being at the core of American democracy, this tips the balance heavily in favor of government.

    The report also discusses the Obama administration’s unprecedented use of social media and the Web. What some might characterize as an effort toward transparency and direct contact with the public is called into question as something more akin to propaganda and, as former CNN Washington Bureau Chief Frank Sesno puts it, an attempt “to end run the news media completely.

    Mark (58ea35)

  30. elsewhere today british people are hating on a whiny midget

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2455413/Miley-Cyrus-dancer-left-shaking-crying-VMAs.html

    those comments … I think fair Albion is pretty darn close to having a consensus on this issue

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  31. Either go down fighting or go down giving in. I say fighting. I want my children to be able to look back and see stubborn opposition to what is happening today, even if that opposition was unsuccessful.

    Either be willing to risk losing your seat, or keep a seat that your accommodation has made worthless.

    Amphipolis (e01538)

  32. Mr. Amphipolis there’s a good many of these congresswhores what haven’t yet qualified for the pension…

    remember you have to be a congresswhore for FIVE WHOLE YEARS before you earn your pension

    so they’re really not in any position to take any chances

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  33. Thanks to Rico for doing his part to keep me out of homeless shelter–I’m within a deal of coming unglued.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  34. Steve57 – will do. thanks.

    mg (31009b)

  35. Really, mg, just one tea spoonful of the spices, maybe two depending on taste, and eight hours on low and you can’t miss.

    Steve57 (d1b97d)

  36. Two of the cajun spice. Also, I forgot to mention the recipe calls for six pound of ribs. Or whatever. It works with less but you’ll have lotsa sauce left over.

    If NASA is still down next week, I’ll pick up the Muslim outreach slack and share my Pork Chop with Red Wine Risotto recipe.

    Steve57 (d1b97d)

  37. here is a music what you can listen to while you slow cook your meat with an ungodly large volume of bbq sauce

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPMkx9k7c4M

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  38. all deals are off the table, according to drudge

    looks like default looms – if there is such a thing

    EPWJ (c3dbb4)

  39. my god it’s like they’re trying to piss Starbucks off

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  40. 37. here is a music what you can listen to while you slow cook your meat with an ungodly large volume of bbq sauce

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPMkx9k7c4M

    Comment by happyfeet (8ce051) — 10/12/2013 @ 11:57 am

    dammit sir once again you failed to properly credit my cajun spice and brown sugar and honey intervention for turning things around in the slow cookery world.

    You are not happyfeet. You are nemesis.

    Steve57 (d1b97d)

  41. Steve

    he’s saffron, you’re paprika/cayenne, there’s bound to be friction

    EPWJ (c3dbb4)

  42. One of the most hilarious things ever to see in my life when I was 19 working with the physicists ayt Amoco, someone in the coffee room had taped a correction (yet another) from the Times Picayune, it read

    ” In Sundays Recipe of Grandma’s Etouffee, where the recipe called for 2 cups of cayenne pepper should have read two teaspoons. We regret the inconvenience”

    Good times

    EPWJ (c3dbb4)

  43. By the way, Mr. Feets, at some point prior to 1:07 of your Chevy Van YouTube I was considering stabbing myself in the throat. By 1:15 I was sure of it.

    So I shut it off. Because I’d hate to stab myself int the throat and deprive you of my future insights.

    But anyhoo thanks for the thought.

    Steve57 (d1b97d)

  44. 41. Steve

    he’s saffron, you’re paprika/cayenne, there’s bound to be friction

    Comment by EPWJ (c3dbb4) — 10/12/2013 @ 12:14 pm

    Well, there is always that.

    Steve57 (d1b97d)

  45. whaaaa?

    i thought he did a nice rendition

    I’m not a music critic really I just like songs and stuff

    so maybe there’s something I’m missing

    honey is for sure a good ingredient in slow cooking

    so is a half stick of butter

    but one must make choices

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  46. I endorse DrewM’s plan for the GOP. I know there are a few Republicans left who see the wisdom of this and have the courage to do it.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  47. geriatric lobsterpot bimbo sure picked a silly time to try and get everyone to play make pretendsies she’s an Important Respected Senator

    you have to pick your moment sweetie

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  48. I like Drew’s idea, too. It’s very Axelrodian. Every R who appears on s Sunday show should do the same basic thing, and as an answer to every question talk only about an actual person with an O-Care sign up nightmare story.

    Oh well, dreamers dream.

    elissa (a37891)

  49. Vogue magazine’s current issue with movie astronaut Sandra Bullock on the cover has a quite nice article (mostly non-political in scope–it is a fashion mag after all) about Rand Paul and his beautiful wife and their family.

    elissa (a37891)

  50. i like him more better than the canadian guy from texas he’s not quite as church lady about stuff

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  51. One problem is that too many people think they are dealing with “their father’s Democrats”, when they are really dealing with the Chicago Seven and their ilk inside the institutions:
    http://frontpagemag.com/2013/david-horowitz/the-threat-we-face-2/

    Locally, the City Tavern reopened today after special appeal by Mayor Nutter and a local Congressman.

    Between being closed and having to be polite for the privilege of reopening, I would prefer the former, but I don’t get my paycheck there.

    Then there is this:
    http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2013/10/this-just-in-5.php

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  52. I watched Lincoln last night and it has relevance to what’s happening today:

    The lack of civility by the political class and the public shows me that we’ve always been a passionate nation about our beliefs, and that’s not a bad thing.

    It’s hard to accomplish big things. It’s messy and dirty and sometimes it looks like there’s no hope, but you have to keep trying.

    There are absolute truths in life — whether it’s the truth that slavery is bad or the truth that we can’t spend ourselves into bankruptcy — but that doesn’t mean everyone recognizes those truths as self-evident.

    There are times when one leader can make a difference.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  53. Looks quite interesting, narciso.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  54. mister happyfeet,

    if you want to lose weight, you don’t have to do wacko bird dieting, following your oprah winfrey middle of the night binges.

    just stop eating out at restaurants—and especially have zero tolerance for fast food—and eat primarily fruits, veggies, and fish, and cut out the red meat and the donuts and cookies. drink lots of water, too.

    i don’t know what your income is, but if you can afford it, buy a good treadmill, and walk on it while you’re watching tv in the privacy of your own home. you don’t even have to run on it until you pass out from exhaustion—just walk on a slight incline at a comfortable pace for an hour a day, and you’ll see the pounds carve off.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  55. one leader can make kind of a difference except for not so much in a cowardly whorish decrepit America what is bereft of anything even approaching a plan for how to contend with a catastrophic 2 point rise in the prime rate

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  56. hah Mr. Stone I already turned my apartment into a mini LA fitness and i still have room for a hip sled, which is a next year thing I think (I’m a have to find not one but two task rabbits to assemble it)

    but the wacko bird dieting has been crazy crazy effective – I tried the eat sensible meals thing and a half dozen other things and it just didn’t get it done – what worked was fasting for 6 days and knocking off 11 pounds that way – after that I had the momentum to really make something happen – I can maintain that way but if I want to drop 5 pounds a week I have to suffer is what I’ve learned – but it helps that I’m pretty good about binging on stuff like plain greek yogurt or I just cook up a skillet of cherry tomatoes and olive oil and celery salt

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  57. E.S. Mr feets knows darn well how to take off weight and keep it off while still eating many many yummy foods. But he uses “cat breath” as an excuse to fall off the wagon. I despair.

    elissa (a37891)

  58. i’m a preface this by saying i’m a terrible person

    that said, lol!

    http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/10/12/computer-upgrade-blamed-for-nationwide-ebt-system-shutdown-on-saturday/

    snoopy dance!

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  59. Who could have predicted that Republicans would fare unfavorably in the polls a couple of weeks after refusing to fund the government?

    Who could have predicted they would cave instantly upon seeing such polls?

    Anybody.

    if that’s the case (and it is) then wasn’t it sheer idiocy to pick a fight you knew you’d lose? What gain was there in this whole thing for the right?

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  60. oh wait.

    snoopy dance was for suppertime

    that was just inappropriate huh

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  61. mister feet, the wacko bird dieting is not good for a number of reasons. (1)it is bad for your blood sugar, and you are (2) probably losing water weight and even (3) metabolizing muscle.
    and here’s the kicker, when you starve yourself, your metabolism (4) drops to a snail’s pace in order to HOLD ONTO THE CALORIES YOU ALREADY HAVE.
    as a rule of thumb, don’t pay attention to the scale—just pay attention to how your clothes fit. the weight ‘number’ on the scale can be affected by gaining muscle via exercise, by water weight, by how recently you visited the men’s room, etc.
    a lot of people get spooked that they’ve “gained weight” after they start exercising regularly—and they often do, but due to muscle gain—not fat gain.
    i would really recommend the combo of 45 min or hour long walks on an incline on the treadmill in conjunction with eating healthy.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  62. mister feet,

    i can’t do anything about your cat breath.
    i don’t know, stop kissing your cat ?

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  63. no cat have i but I agree with a lot of what you say it does catch up with you, so now I’m heavying up on the protein and I’ll start lifting here pretty soon – I didn’t lift while I was starving cause it just tears you up

    after I add some muscle back then I’ll starve some more and then after that a disciple to your sensible wisdom i shall become I promise

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  64. Tlaloc,

    We publicly exposed the President as the angry spiteful dishonest sociopath that inside sources have long reported that he is.

    But it’s not Barack’s fault—nothing ever is, of course—but Barack is merely the product of two angry dishonest head cases;
    a father who was a fall-down drunk who could not contain his sexual compulsions, nor who could keep a job. And a mother who was kind of flighty and did not want to be the provider for her son, who spent her entire life rebelling against her priviliged upper-middle class upbringing.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  65. Tlaloc,

    The gain is knowing you did what’s right. Politics is tactics and ideology. I know a liberal like you remembers what it’s like to do what you think is right, even if you might lose.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  66. The gain is knowing you did what’s right

    DRJ gets it.

    We lost nothing. Absolutely nothing. The GOP has the standing it richly deserves right now. The GOP is the party that nominated John Mccain to become the most powerful man in the world, despite a pronounced lack of principles. We then nominated the man who came up with the idea of using a tax penalty as a mandate for a national health care ‘reform’, Mitt Romney.

    Patterico says the GOP is giving away the store, but I disagree. The store of an intrusive, huge, indebted, corrupt government has two managers, the RINOs and the democrats. RINO has become a useless expression now as the Republicans who catch the most flack from the party are the idealistic conservatives working for some legitimate progress on conservative policies.

    Anyway, it’s time for conservatives to move towards a legitimate political party, aware that this process will cost the GOP elections (so what?) and eventually end the GOP (which will open the way to a conservative political party). RINOs sneer at this because they do not recognize the vast policy opportunity for a real limited government party. A party that stands for freedom in the face of security theater, warrantless raids, IP law ridiculousness, stealing from our children to enrich China, and thorough corruption in most federal agencies.

    There are democrats out there who are conflicted about supporting a corrupt party, and think just as I do that we don’t really have a two party system. All it takes to break this cycle is collective will.

    Dustin (724be4)

  67. there are reports that people across America can’t access their food stamps, and it’s a holiday weekend so tis could be a big problem for some families. Twitter users are blaming Republicans and the shutdown, but it’s the Federal government’s servers that are at fault. The perils of Big Government.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  68. Happyfeet also posted a CBS report on that above, DRJ. You are correct that they’ll try to place blame on the shutdown. But most of the nation under 60 is now pretty tech savvy and will “get” what has occurred. Likewise, it’s the tech industry people and younger people who are causing them the biggest grief over the government’s Obamacare rollout narratives.

    elissa (a37891)

  69. The odd thing is they switched them out two weeks ago.

    http://goo.gl/BM7NuU

    narciso (3fec35)

  70. Dustin,

    I still hope we can take back control of the GOP by primarying establishment incumbents. I admit it may jot work but I’m an optimist.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  71. We then nominated the man who came up with the idea of using a tax penalty as a mandate for a national health care ‘reform’, Mitt Romney.

    Johnny-One-Note…

    Colonel Haiku (c76540)

  72. happyfeet,

    I’m sorry I didn’t credit your earlier comment on the food stamp story.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  73. DRJ, anyone who depends on an effective federal government to feed their own family is making a huge mistake.

    This reminds me of when Mircowxi and Joe Miller debated Alaskan dependence on the feds.

    Still, I admit I appreciate the cleverness of the ruthless PR game the democrats have played with this shutdown that hasn’t actually shutdown most of the government. They will take the food out of someone’s mouth over this. Why in the world would we want them to have power over our medicine too?

    Dustin (724be4)

  74. I will never forgive Barack Obama Mitt Romney for barricading the WW2 Memorial, or for closing the highway turnouts in order to prevent people from taking long-range photographs of Mount Rushmore.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  75. We then nominated the man who came up with the idea of using a tax penalty as a mandate for a national health care ‘reform’, Mitt Romney.

    Johnny-One-Note…

    Comment by Colonel Haiku (c76540) — 10/12/2013 @ 2:09 pm

    Guilty as charged. I’m still pretty sore about it. It all but guaranteed Obama would be reelected, or at least that’s what I thought at the time and nothing has shown that to be incorrect. We need to try someone with a record of succeeding with conservatism.

    Dustin (724be4)

  76. “There are democrats out there who are conflicted about supporting a corrupt party, and think just as I do that we don’t really have a two party system. All it takes to break this cycle is collective will.”

    Comment by Dustin (724be4)

    Who are these noble democrats, Dustin? Where did you find them? They seem to be casting their votes for whichever democrat is running for office.

    Colonel Haiku (c76540)

  77. But, we have to take food out of the mouths of the poor, to combat the obesity that Moochelle says they suffer from.
    We’re doing it for the chillun.

    askeptic (2bb434)

  78. Sure don’t see Democrats fighting among themselves. Amazing, given their lack of discipline in nearly every other facet of their lives.

    Colonel Haiku (c76540)

  79. And there aren’t a few former Republicans who are sore about it. The disaster of nominating repeat liberals is something that can’t be swept under the rug. There is a systematic problem with the GOP primary system, from its reliance on the MSM to moderate our debates to the order of our primaries, where the most successful conservative states are kept where the RINOs want us… later than the real contest.

    Dustin (724be4)

  80. “The president, his chief operative Valerie Jarrett and his chief political strategist David Axelrod all came out of the same Communist left and the same radical new left as I did, and all have remained heart and soul a part of it. As someone who turned his back on that destructive movement, I can say with confidence that they have not. If a person belongs to an organization or is the supporter of an idea that they come to see as destructive or evil, the first thing they will want to do when they leave is to warn others against it, to warn them of the dangers it represents. If a person does not do this – that tells me that he or she hasn’t left the destructive movement or abandoned the pernicious idea but has just put another face on them. Instead of calling themselves communists or socialists they call themselves liberals and progressives. This camouflage is very old. I never once heard my parents and their party friends refer to themselves as Communists. They were progressives – and registered Democrats.”

    – David Horowitz

    Colonel Haiku (c76540)

  81. One of the reasons we lose presidential elections, and why we lose shutdowns, is because our left wing Democrat kook opponents all band together to fire their guns at a target outside the tent.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  82. “Today the Obama juggernaut is systematically bankrupting our country, and undoing our constitutional arrangements. Its contempt for consultative and representative government is relentlessly on display. This week Senate Majority leader Harry Reid defended his refusal to negotiate with Republicans over Obamacare and the debt in these words: “We are here to support the federal government. That’s our job.” End quote. Forget about representing the people whom our Founders made sovereign. Forget what America is about.”

    – David Horowitz

    http://frontpagemag.com/2013/david-horowitz/the-threat-we-face-2/

    Colonel Haiku (c76540)

  83. aseptic, you make a good point about obesity.
    We’re often lectured by Moo-chelle about how fat America is—particularly the children, who allegedly just sit inside all day, eating Oreos, drinking sugary sodas, and playing video games—while on the other hand, we’re told we have to acquiesce to having our taxes raised otherwise millions of children will die of starvation.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  84. to the order of our primaries, where the most successful conservative states are kept where the RINOs want us… later than the real contest

    I think you nailed it, Dustin. Pickings are slim once Texans comes up to bat.

    felipe (6100bc)

  85. Thanks, Felipe.

    I have no disrespect for those who see things differently from me on this. DRJ is incredibly bright and things the primaries are a viable hope. We have seen this work, for example with Ted Cruz. Haiku is no liberal and no fool, and I know we’ll never see the Romney nomination the same way either.

    My view is inspired by frustration with the GOP. We not only have these jerks who say they don’t want to return to Reagan/Bush or don’t respect an effort to delay Obamacare because ‘he won’, but these are the folks the GOP keeps nominating! If it’s broken, don’t try to stop fixing it!

    Dustin (724be4)

  86. I am not a savvy baseball fan, but couldn’t Repubs, strategically work out a “batting” order for holding primaries to better represent the conservative base? Why not have deep red states go early to stiffen the spines of the purple states? I really don’t know how the order is established, but I suspect it works against conservative voters.

    felipe (6100bc)

  87. “I have no disrespect for those who see things differently from me on this.”
    ———–

    Ha, ha, c’mon, bro.
    You’ve actually been sort of strident in recent weeks toward those of us conservatives who don’t think Mitt Romney is Satan, accusing us of being “closet liberals” and “RINOs,” and so forth.
    Feel free to vent in the way that you feel most confortable signing your monniker to—that’s fine with me—but please don’t come back the next week and assert you didn’t talk that way.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  88. I wailed about this during the endless R debates and it still holds true: compromise does not pay if it means sacrificing core principles of conservatism. It is essentially a feat where weakness is quickly exposed, and the left is very savvy tactically and ruthless, and will always exploit that weakness until that limp al dente spaghetti candidate/congress person doesn’t even realize he’s been boiled alive, oh so slowly. Pathetic.

    But then, if we have learned anything, it’s that Republicans are not about conservativism but rather being popular. How did the big tent become high school?

    Dana (6178d5)

  89. That being said, Dustin makes a couple of excellent points. The order of the primaries definitely needs to be changed to reflect the will of more red states, and it is complete insanity to allow the MSM to hold GOP primary debates.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  90. A point to ponder,

    Why don’t democrats ever concede?

    Because they don’t care about America, they care about themselves.

    They know low taxes and regulation and right to work leads to more jobs, more benefits and lower costs of living.

    That’s not in their interests

    so we can go on another bloody rino hunt with lots of friendly fire – or maybe can could concentrate on making America work for all, with work being the objective

    EPWJ (c3dbb4)

  91. I say we set the order of the primaries based on the unemployment rate and the annual deficit of the state.

    Some states have smarter voters than other states. Some states are making this conservatism thing work nicely. Maybe they know better how to pick leadership? There is no maybe about it.

    And those states that do not comply with this should have their delegate count adjusted.

    Dustin (724be4)

  92. Trust me, I ain’t getting back in the middle of this never ending blog battle again. But—-Allahpundit had a pretty interesting post up about the RINO thing yesterday. It gets at–at least partly– the issue I have, and have been writing about, with the epithet “RINO”. What that word means really is totally in the eye of the beholder. We who want to rid the world of the worst of the establishment politicians in D.C. and want to communicate with the greater public, need to accept and understand that the use of RINO is for the most part lazy and ineffective rhetoric. We need to up our rhetorical game to say what we really mean–and say what we really stand for–not fallback and converse in meaningless shorthand drivel. That is all.

    http://hotair.com/archives/2013/10/11/peter-king-its-ted-cruz-and-rand-paul-who-are-the-real-rinos/

    elissa (a37891)

  93. Why don’t democrats ever concede?

    Because they don’t care about America, they care about themselves.

    They know low taxes and regulation and right to work leads to more jobs, more benefits and lower costs of living.

    EPJW, I think Democrats don’t back down because they know they don’t have to. With half or more of our population dependent on the federal government for food , clothing, and shelter, and swearing allegiance to the party that keeps on giving, it’s very difficult to get a Conservative message out that really demonstrates the personal freedoms it’s principles provide. And, when the messengers do such a poor job of demonstrating and living it, it becomes all the more impotent.

    Dana (6178d5)

  94. Elissa, the problem as I see it continues – as always – to be with piss poor messaging (messengers). It’s a tough messag to sell to an ear that doesn’t want to hear, let alone having the usual suspects of buffoonery deliver it. What to do?

    Dana (6178d5)

  95. I would add tut the message becomes even tougher t

    Dana (6178d5)

  96. Rep. Devin Nunes, R-Calif, I think, is trying to form the “Peoples Front of Judea”.

    So I guess that makes the Dems the Romans.

    felipe (6100bc)

  97. Crap…phone typing…message becomes an even tougher sell when it’s working against a shamelessly biased media.

    Dana (6178d5)

  98. Maybe the message should be in letters ten feet tall.

    “Romani ite domum”

    felipe (6100bc)

  99. so we can go on another bloody rino hunt with lots of friendly fire – or maybe can could concentrate on making America work for all, with work being the objective

    Comment by EPWJ (c3dbb4) — 10/12/2013

    It isn’t friendly fire unless you’re on the same side. The RINOs are the bad guys. They are democrats who snuck in under the radar by running in the wrong party, diluting that party until it almost seems like the conservatives don’t belong in the GOP anymore.

    John Mccain would never have won his Senate Seat as a democrat, but his sensibilities are for big government and opposed to our individual liberty (for example with our free speech). He’s no friend to the conservative cause.

    Unfortunately, partisan loyalty for the GOP has failed for all but the very most loyal. Maybe it’s because of this that discussions like this tend to get so hostile. But it’s just an internet discussion thread. It is writ in water and means absolutely nothing in the scheme of things.

    Dustin (724be4)

  100. Dustin

    When people like Christie, Perry, Dewhurst, Colburn, Cocker are considered Rino’s – the ability to get the mushy middle to go all Perot isn’t going to happen.

    EPWJ (c3dbb4)

  101. I think Democrats don’t back down because they know they don’t have to.

    Absolutely. Why would the democrats negotiate if the GOP is led by democrats too? That would be hilarious, but Obama is only flexible with the soviets.

    Dustin (724be4)

  102. corker,,, repeat corker, I’ve got to quit reading tn volunteers for freedom emails…….

    EPWJ (c3dbb4)

  103. When people like Christie, Perry, Dewhurst, Colburn, Cocker are considered Rino’s – the ability to get the mushy middle to go all Perot isn’t going to happen.

    Comment by EPWJ (c3dbb4) — 10/12/2013

    True. There needs to be some clarity on what, specifically, is a weak Republican. In the primary we saw a bona fide RINO flip flop his way to an extreme immigration position that contradicted his record 100%, but then identify minor deviations in actual conservatives that were called ‘rino’. It works great when the GOP lets the left moderate our debates and assist us in picking our nominee.

    It’s not the mushy middle I am after, though. It is the principled and the patriotic. There are plenty of good folks who vote for democrats with some conflict in their hearts because they too have little representation on things like our basic rights. Furthermore, if the GOP could stop acting like it’s ashamed of conservatism for a minute maybe we could win a mind or a heart.

    Dustin (724be4)

  104. Dustin,

    that’s not happening, its a denial by those who think their conservatism is vastly superior to others conservatism.

    Confusing pragmatism with liberalism is a zero sum game

    EPWJ (c3dbb4)

  105. When a Republican says ‘I’m not like those other conservatives… I’m a compassionate conservative’ what is he saying about conservatism? Is he not verifying the most idiotic Kos kiddo nonsense? When a Republican complains that the GOP isn’t reaching out to Latinos and embraces a race based set of policies for cynical purposes, what is he saying about the justifications for any policy? What is he saying about the natural benefit of conservatism for all races (for example, that we can get a good job)?

    It’s no secret that the last 5 years have been particularly bad for black Americans in virtually every economic indicator. Stop acting like conservatism has something to apologize for maybe someone will notice it doesn’t.

    Dustin (724be4)

  106. EPJW, then tell us how to effectively get a strong conservative message out to a vast population of citizens who have bought the Dem line and believed the MSM? Do you believe the message has to be watered down to be effectively received?

    Dana (6178d5)

  107. weak weasel rino’s vote for gop leadership who could table bills like universal wealth redistribution – or – cessation of voting rights for white republicans – or any other future nonsense that’s going to make Obama look like Reagan.

    Think of barack as the bar to be exceeded by all other progressive presidents to follow

    and then – put this into retrospect about McCain’s concerns however poorly vocalized…

    EPWJ (c3dbb4)

  108. 96. I agree Dana. We are very poor storytellers and it pains me that that is so. The Dem side are great storytellers–and it’s even easier for them to have great narratives because they are willing to lie and make up stories without compunction.

    I don’t know what the answer is. But as I have said before I think it partially involves us as individuals working locally to help find and develop and elect conservative rock stars who can resonate in our communities and states rather than waiting for a savior to magically appear on the national scene. I get sad when I hear that some seem to feel that dropping out of the political process altogether is the only road to take. I am even sadder when I hear people suggest that forming a third party is better and easier than working hard to revolutionize the R party.

    elissa (a37891)

  109. dana,

    hand puppets, pretty flow charts, soft lighting, and a repubicanirno senate and house who stop any further damage while the country slowly recovers, people drift back to work and this thing is over…

    Losing the house on principle is like HAVING to win an argument with your wife, neither is a desirable outcome

    EPWJ (c3dbb4)

  110. that’s not happening, its a denial by those who think their conservatism is vastly superior to others conservatism.

    Confusing pragmatism with liberalism is a zero sum game

    Comment by EPWJ (c3dbb4) — 10/12/2013 @

    I disagree. Texas style conservatism is objectively superior to most others, for example. There are real world reasons.

    Pragmatism is compromising for the sake of reaching some success. Obama being reelected is not a good example. Obamacare is not a good example. The debt ceiling being in the statosphere is not a good example. There are plenty of Republican leaders who are in favor of a huge government and would not balance the budget even if it was easy to do. How are we supposed to win this hard fight with such men at the helm?

    And it is not optional. The debt is a looming disaster that will correct itself one way or the other. This huge government will not last in this form. It is inevitable that we will pay for all of it, even if it we’re passing that on to our kids. There’s nothing pragmatic about letting that slide so ABC news says someone is moderate. It is actually the opposite of practical to do this.

    Dustin (724be4)

  111. elissa

    its simple – squishy gets the votes – we are a squishy society, here on this comment thread we are hard as granite, more cruz’s won’t get elected,

    Reagan was a mighty squish, he wrote in the law that essentially banned handgun ownership for the entire country, signed in pro abortion legislation that founded planned parenthood and mismanaged the cold war nearly bankrupting the country with weapon systems that were really not needed as much as RESOLVE, which he showed.

    Reagan was an okay president, all I remembered was unending layoffs and half of corporate America disappearing but we are a strong country, we can survive a total retard like Reagan we can survive the even more brain dead and evil Obama, at least Reagan loved America, and did what he thought was best, Obama thinks he is the best at what America should be, not could be.

    EPWJ (c3dbb4)

  112. Texas style conservatism is objectively superior to most others, for example. There are real world reasons.

    Even though what follows the statement explains it and makes good points, I would point out it comes off as arrogant and narrowminded, which is how conservatism messaging can come off and lose people. Well I understand your larger point, nuts and bolts is it’s easier to be a conservative in Texas then a conservative in Hollywood or New York City.

    My point being, words matter and precisely how the message is presented and what words are used, is critical. The messenger has but a few moments to catch the ear and attention of the listener, and just like when I read your second sentence, I blanched. If I did not know you from this blog, I would not have kept reading. Those running don’t have the luxury of the benefit of the doubt.

    Dana (6178d5)

  113. Dustin

    Purists are NAzi’s, Islamofacists, Communists, and other nefarious wackos.

    Conservatism is Pragmatism and I missed the internationale’ committee on conservatives and last I checked we didn’t have a union type leadership enforcing who is and isn’t a conservative or maybe we can adopt Mao Ze Creep’s tactics of open pressure and lies for conformity to the whim of a few or the one.

    I think that anyone who thinks that maybe we don’t need to give 1/6th to 1/2 of our money to others under threat of imprisonment is a conservative.

    EPWJ (c3dbb4)

  114. I’m perfectly willing to compromise and embrace politicians like McCain, Cornyn, Dewhurst and Corker if they win — as long as we primary them first. Let them face some fire from the right and prove their mettle.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  115. [From a comment I saw recently]
    Here’s a fun new game for all the Tea Party members!

    It doesn’t take long, or require much skill. Call up your granny, right now, and tell her you are strongly in favor of cutting her Social Security and Medicare. Then tell her that she’s a free loading socialist for wanting it anyway!

    It will add to the excitement at all your Holiday get-togethers!

    Tillman (de3280)

  116. In addition, I agree with Dustin and others that we need to shake up the primary process so it isn’t over before the big red states weigh in. We also need work on the debates.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  117. Tillman,

    I would do that but my older family members have already inundated me with emails and calls telling me how pathetic the entitlement system is. It would be like preaching to the choir.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  118. Sure, DRJ.

    Tillman (de3280)

  119. In other news food stamp ebt card in a third of the country stopped working and are still unusable.

    Missed any reports of food riots and dying babies..

    EPWJ (c3dbb4)

  120. EPWJ:

    Conservatism is Pragmatism and I missed the internationale’ committee on conservatives and last I checked we didn’t have a union type leadership enforcing who is and isn’t a conservative or maybe we can adopt Mao Ze Creep’s tactics of open pressure and lies for conformity to the whim of a few or the one.

    Last I checked, conservatives aren’t cowards afraid to stand up for their beliefs. That’s why I know these GOP politicians will be happy to stand up during the primary and explain what they believe in and how they are going to accomplish it.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  121. Tillman,

    Perhaps your older relatives are more dependent on the State than mine.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  122. I’m perfectly willing to compromise and embrace politicians like McCain, Cornyn, Dewhurst and Corker if they win — as long as we primary them first. Let them face some fire from the right and prove their mettle.

    Except they lie in the primaries. “Build the danged fence.”

    Patterico (9c670f)

  123. Seriously, DRJ, I’ll tell you what, my mother didn’t complain about them at all. She was also a Republican.

    But I will give you this: it is true that a lot of doctors will refuse new Medicare patients. That’s a problem.

    Tillman (de3280)

  124. Many food stamp recipients are probably sorry they are dependent on the State today, too.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  125. We can’t stop politicians from lying but we can point those lies out in the primaries.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  126. Tillman:

    But I will give you this: it is true that a lot of doctors will refuse new Medicare patients. That’s a problem.

    I guess that’s Obama’s problem now.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  127. DRJ, you appear to contradict yourself. If they’re not using the services, how can they complain about the quality of said services? They complain on behalf of others using Medicare or Social Security?

    Tillman (de3280)

  128. DRJ

    Fire from the right or from someone saying they are from the right but are just another Harvard lawyer looking for clients, bookdeals, status, money and that ever so high entitlement being a former senator gives someone in life

    Maybe that.

    Lets see Brown, Johnson, Lee, Paul, Ryan, Flake, Rubio also according to some are no longer the right right but are wrong for the right, right now.

    these goalposts not only move but were never planting in the ground in the first place.

    wrapping ourselves around the smugness of having someone having to be primaried by someone with nothing to lose and everything to gain is not been helping..

    Its real easy to run with a liberal press giving you millions of dollars in free advertising and name recognition to embarrass solid republican leaders they absolutely loath.

    Debra Medina comes to mind a out of work nurse wuith a never employed husband who told enormous whoppers like her great grandfather fighting at the Alamo (not with the math skills) and being from Kansas not a 10th generation Texan who in the midst of a campaign about fiscal responsibility didn’t have the 1,168 dollars to pay her property taxes and had been a Ron Paul paid secretary even though she was billed as an ER nurse….

    She got headline after headline after headline……………..

    Cause the Austin-American-Dallas-Morning-Houston-Chronicle Democrat Talking points luved them something to run against perry

    EPWJ (c3dbb4)

  129. Patterico:

    Except they lie in the primaries. “Build the danged fence.”

    That’s why having a credible primary opponent is so important. It gives us a choice between someone who tells us things that don’t match their past history and another choice. Sometimes voters stick with the incumbent but it’s nice to have a real choice.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  130. Patterico

    They voted to build the fence the Democrats voted in down.

    The bill was passed in the house and tabled in the Senate, about 3 dozen times and the parts that were passed were never funded..

    EPWJ (c3dbb4)

  131. The BBB loves your talking points, Eric, but I’m still not convinced.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  132. DRJ , frankly it would seem the opposite it that as many food stamp recipients are now multi-generational. Sadl , It’s a way of life. Which again goes full circle to how do you convince a family that has long been dependent on the government for food stamps that there is a better way? (Broad brushing )

    Dana (6178d5)

  133. Tillman–I hate the social security system. My parents and grandparents hated the social security system. I have been forced to pay into it for my entire adult working life. If Barack Obama’s government would write me a lump sum check today for the entire amount I and my employers have paid into my social security account I’d be thrilled. In return I’d give up all rights to any government social security or old age payments for the rest of my life. I’d even willingly forego any interest that I’d have earned had those earnings been in any other investment all this time instead of ss. Just return my principal.

    You cannot even comprehend that many many people feel this way about Social Security, can you Tillman?

    elissa (a37891)

  134. again by democrats

    Also, the Chinese keep getting here in droves as well so a 150 billion dollar fence with more money than we spend on the US army annually would have a a positive affect on one side and a very negative effect on the other side

    EPWJ (c3dbb4)

  135. Tillman:

    DRJ, you appear to contradict yourself. If they’re not using the services, how can they complain about the quality of said services? They complain on behalf of others using Medicare or Social Security?

    Government waste and ineptness is every taxpayers’ business.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  136. Do you believe the message has to be watered down to be effectively received?

    Comment by Dana (6178d5) — 10/12/2013 @ 3:20 pm

    That right is the central tactical question. The answer seems obvious both to folks like me and folks who support the RINOs.

    To me, if your record doesn’t show you succeeding with conservative principles, or your statements show you don’t really believe in them as truth, how can you convince anyone to believe in them?

    In the fight between goodies for social justice and a balanced budget (that’s the fight, in a nutshell), too many in the GOP have already settled into negotiating how many goodies one is entitled to, and have given up on the (eventually not even optional) balanced budget issue.

    As some places fail and some succeed, it’s clear that a huge government isn’t helping anyone ‘build that’ business. It’s clear that the vitality of the private sector needed for the symbiote turned parasite of government is not even much of a factor in the philosophies of leadership unless it’s at the behest of an enormous corporation with a generous lobbying budget. Often those corporations are right, but my concern is also with motives and lack of consistent principles.

    Dustin (724be4)

  137. elissa,

    you me everyone never ever “paid” into a system. there is no system, every year, the “benefits” are voted and renewed by congress and taxes and collected and paid in that fiscal year

    There is no “bank account” there is no unfunded notarial liability, its just a expenditure that can be ended by a simple voice vote or ny presidential declaration.

    its that easy

    EPWJ (c3dbb4)

  138. Bush threatened to end it, he should have

    EPWJ (c3dbb4)

  139. Dana:

    DRJ , frankly it would seem the opposite it that as many food stamp recipients are now multi-generational. Sadl , It’s a way of life.

    I’m not saying food stamp recipients are sorry they are dependent on food stamps, only that they are sorry today because their EBT cards aren’t working. If they were smart, they would wish they weren’t dependent on someone who can so easily let them down, but I suspect that’s a logic too far for most.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  140. I know that a lot of people would rather not pay into Social Security, and I’m not against people opting out of it IF (and only if) they refuse any help whatsoever later. Why haven’t Republicans made this more of an issue?

    I think that historically we’ve seen what it is like without Social Security and it failed miserably – older people were dirt poor and pitiful. I think that most people would opt out of it and end up regretting it later too.

    Tillman (de3280)

  141. Oh, my mistake. I misunderstood you.

    Dana (6178d5)

  142. Life’s better when you earn your own way. Laziness is addictive and so many are hooked on food stamps (including far too many Texans). They don’t realize that they could have a better life. And it’s a vicious cycle as without their labor, the economy is that much grayer.

    You only get one chance on this world, and I feel terrible for those who have wasted it by living on the dole and having much less of an impact or interaction with society. They may have gotten some free money, but they were robbed.

    Dustin (724be4)

  143. I know eric. But my money and my employers’ money went somewhere besides into my bank account. I was trying to make a point to Tillman that not everybody in America is enamoured with entitlements. I don’t think he believes that.

    elissa (a37891)

  144. elissa

    I’m for a amendment making illegal anything more than a short period of time any type of entitlement, including pensions on govt dime

    no direct cash transfer period. It can be services, or retraining vouchers, or tuition waivers, but no direct cash

    unemployment, if that was done away with I wonder if savings would become an American ethic again.

    EPWJ (c3dbb4)

  145. I’m for a amendment making illegal anything more than a short period of time any type of entitlement, including pensions on govt dime

    Neat.

    Do you have a plan that will actually get such an amendment passed?

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  146. As a kid I used to go to the D.F.L. caucuses, looking back, those commies were well organized.

    mg (31009b)

  147. elissa, #111: Ronald Reagan’s 1964 speach supporting Barry Goldwater is a perfect example of what is needed today. Everything he said in that speach made sense. It dealt with problems that are still with us today (only exponentially worse), and he connected on a personal level with every listener. And he did it before he became a prominent politician with the sort of support staff (researchers, speach writers, polling data, etc.) that we presume are available to drolling idiots like McCain. Ted Cruz is the closest to RR that I have seen in his preparation, breadth, and humanity. I was reminded of the speach on Mark Levin’s show on Friday, if memory serves, when he played 10 minutes of it uninterrupted. It was electrifying.

    The other comments in this blog have also been on the mark. I really appreciated the analysis of the implied hypocrisy of anyone (say, for example, either Bush 41 or 43) who proclaims he is a “compassionate conservative”. Clearly they do not understand economics and they are certainly incapable of defending any aspect of conservatism. They might be decent guys, but they can’t distinquish right from wrong. They are horribly miscast as conservative leaders. Better to make them cabinet officers if they must be included in the mix.

    bobathome (c0c2b5)

  148. no worries DRJ gosh y’all have had a productive day here

    Charlie’s Pantry was disappointing

    the food was meh – I had an omelette and F had the pesto chicken breast from the deli – mine was fine for what it was – just your average omelette with some toast – and F’s chicken was dry like it had been cooked the day before – we tried a few things but nothing remarkable to report – I got the brussels sprouts – they were the tastiest thing we ended up getting

    oddly though they serve them cold, but it was fine – I just never had them like that before

    and it’s an order at the counter place

    and get this

    so when you need another drink it’s a huge hassle cause the beverages – which are just cans and bottles of whatnot – they aren’t very cold so you have to ask for ice

    so I wanted another can of diet coke and I go up and say hi can I get another diet coke and I hand the girl two bucks

    she says actually it’s $2.73

    darlin the food needs to be a lot better than what it is if you gonna rape me for a can of diet coke

    but I didn’t say that out loud that was just a bubble thought and I was thirsty

    I doubt I’ll go back ever again my whole life but they’re opening Charlie’s Rotisserie next door I guess

    so… maybe I guess

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  149. Make thatdrooling idiots like McCain. I don’t think Senator McCain knows how to droll.

    bobathome (c0c2b5)

  150. FYI-
    Sam Wang of the princeton election commission is projecting a 50-50 chance the right loses the house if the election took place today.

    http://election.princeton.edu/2013/10/10/a-prediction-for-2014-house-elections-take-1/

    To be fair, Nate Silver has been generally down on the idea that the shutdown will be a game changer.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  151. Tlaloc, go troll someone who falls for your drivel.

    SPQR (768505)

  152. Quetzalcoatl/TaLaLa/BraveSirFailalot…

    Queen of Insipid… Duke of Dookie… King of All Klowns… go sell crazy ealsewhere.

    Colonel Haiku (45091a)

  153. Obama says, “We’ve got to create more jobs”… how many times has he said this now… 10?… 20?… 50? perhaps 100 times before? he’s trotted it out every year since 2008, usually accompanied with an “it’s the last thing I think about before I go to sleep” and… “the first thing I think about when I awaken”.

    One would think he would feel a sense of shame about The Obama Economy, but Lefties don’t embarrass easy.

    http://news.investors.com/politics-andrew-malcolm/101213-674713-obama-shutdown-jobs-growth-congress-republicans.htm

    Colonel Haiku (45091a)

  154. Everywhere you look, there is evidence that Republicans are going to give away the store.

    What they don’t realize is that part of the reason they are in such poor standing is because folks like me and you have contempt for them

    That’s part of the reason, and probably that hasn’t happened yet.

    The other part of the reason is that most people, even those opposed to Obamacare, never agreed with the appropriateness of the strategy they had in in the first place which was – what? – tying doing something unclear about Obamacare to the continuing resolution.

    Obama’s goal is for the Republicans to lose support both from those who approve of the idea, nd those who do not, and the way to do that is for them to create a crisis and accomplish nothing.

    Even if they accomplish something, Obama and the Democrats will do their best to portray it as a complete surrender.

    Sammy Finkelman (bec8ba)

  155. Tlaloc, go troll someone who falls for your drivel.

    What is there to “fall” for? I wasn’t trying to convince you of anything I was posting a link to an article.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  156. 152. …To be fair, Nate Silver has been generally down on the idea that the shutdown will be a game changer.

    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/12/2013 @ 5:53 pm

    Prolly cuz the GOP had a net gain of two seats in the Senate in ’96.

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  157. This might be of interest or amusement to some. Ancient Artifact silver griffin Obama Gave Iran is fake from 1999.

    So the US knew this was fake, because the Federal government had seized it… for being fake. And gave it to Iran. In exchange for fake offers of peace.

    http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/ancient-artifact-obama-gave-iran-is-a-fake-from-1999/

    elissa (0b17af)

  158. 139. Comment by EPWJ (c3dbb4) — 10/12/2013 @ 3:59 pm

    every year, the “benefits” are voted and renewed by congress

    No, they are not. They are on autopilot, and there’s a pretty strong unwritten rule that nothing is to be changed for those receiving benefits (except possibly the way the COLA is calculated) and for those close to receiving them.

    There is no “bank account”

    There actually is. It may amount to nothing more than the right pocket owing money to the left pocket, but there is an account.

    there is no unfunded notarial liability, its just a expenditure that can be ended by a simple voice vote

    It could indeed be legally ended or changed in any way by passing a law. What is legally possible is not the same thing as what is politically possible.

    or by presidential declaration.

    Not really.

    Sammy Finkelman (bec8ba)

  159. Dana,

    It wasn’t your mistake. My comment was one that only I as the author could get, because it wasn’t well written.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  160. Queen of Insipid… Duke of Dookie… King of All Klowns… go sell crazy ealsewhere.

    You mad, bro?

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  161. THis is also kind of fun. Video of some bison versus a barrycade. I won’t ruin the suspense of who wins. The bison even have a human cheering section!

    http://weaselzippers.us/2013/10/12/bison-vs-barrycades-hint-barrycades-lose/

    elissa (0b17af)

  162. Don’t judge him too harshly. Obama is as sincere with the mullahs as he is with Americans and the rest of the world.

    As in not very…

    Colonel Haiku (45091a)

  163. The Lascaux cave paintings in France will tell you that bison have always had their human cheering sections.

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  164. No, not mad, TaLaLa… I lose patience with people who seem to go out of their way to prove that common sense is a precious commodity. There is absolutely nothing… no obvious untruth… no malevolent lie, that folks like you won’t choke down and hold dear.

    Colonel Haiku (45091a)

  165. The left as Rse has pointed out, has a reason for pushing every policy, gun control, which has failed in NY and Chicago, amnesty, common core, national heath care,appeasement of radical Islam, more often then, it can get elements of the right, to sign on, Peter King is understanding of the last point, but not any other, our last nominee was clear on maybe the first, but not the last,

    narciso (3fec35)

  166. It saddens me more than it angers.

    Colonel Haiku (45091a)

  167. If the election were held today, we’d be more then a little surprised,

    narciso (3fec35)

  168. teh Left’s lies travel
    around their disease-filled hive
    like chlamydia

    Colonel Haiku (45091a)

  169. I lose patience with people who seem to go out of their way to prove that common sense is a precious commodity.

    You guys went way out of your way to set yourselves up to fail. I merely point that fact out.

    So which of us lacks common sense?

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  170. 166. No, not mad, TaLaLa… I lose patience with people who seem to go out of their way to prove that common sense is a precious commodity. There is absolutely nothing… no obvious untruth… no malevolent lie, that folks like you won’t choke down and hold dear.

    Comment by Colonel Haiku (45091a) — 10/12/2013 @ 6:49 pm

    Don’t lose patience. Such will always be with us. Like herpes or a bad set of luggage.

    You’ll never get rid of it. Just be glad you didn’t get AIDS.

    Say ten Hail Marys and five Our Fathers and get on with it, Coronello.

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  171. Left’s sweet intentions
    mask syphilitic results
    like some chancred whore

    Colonel Haiku (45091a)

  172. What a lovely halo around the Moon tonight…

    Colonel Haiku (45091a)

  173. My spirits are lifted by the knowledge that there are God’s own conservatives thriving in Texas. They shall light the way for the rest of us wretches…

    Colonel Haiku (45091a)

  174. 174. What a lovely halo around the Moon tonight…

    Comment by Colonel Haiku (45091a) — 10/12/2013 @ 7:05 pm

    I’m pretty sure that’s what the Captain and Admiral aboard the Soryu said as the last of crew was abandoning ship off of Midway in June ’42, shortly before they rode it to the bottom.

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  175. 175. …They shall light the way for the rest of us wretches…

    Comment by Colonel Haiku (45091a) — 10/12/2013 @ 7:07 pm

    We’ve got the kerosene.

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  176. Colonel:

    My spirits are lifted by the knowledge that there are God’s own conservatives thriving in Texas. They shall light the way for the rest of us wretches…

    Even I know you are being sarcastic but without Texas, I don’t think a Republican nominee can win the Presidency. Maybe your sarcasm is truer than you think.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  177. Did you hear? Obama has hit on a brilliant multi-point solution.

    He’s going to declare Syria a national park!

    So the NPS goons leave the mall, problem one solved.

    And go to Syria and clean out AQ, problem two solved.

    Genius!

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  178. Alternatively if Obama declares Syria a federally protected wetland Assad will never get a permit to operate there, let alone bring in the precursors to chemical weapons.

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  179. Here’s an interesting group of bipartisan Senators who huddled together to raise the debt limit:

    During the vote, a large number of Democratic senators huddled around Collins (R-Maine). Sens. Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska) and Kelly Ayotte (R-N.H.), the other two GOP centrists backing the Collins plan, joined her.

    Sens. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), Barbara Mikulski (D-Md.), Joe manchin (D-W.Va.), Joe Donnelley (D-Ind.), Bill Nelson (D-Fla.), Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), Martin Heinrich (D-N.M.), Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.), Carl Levin (D-Mich.), Mike Johanns (R-Neb.), Mark Kirk (R-Ill.) and Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) were just a few of the others in the huddle.

    The Republican Senators want to raise the debt limit until 1/31/2014. The Democratic Senators want to raise it permanently. Otherwise, they seem to be on the same page.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  180. for sure Meghan’s coward daddy is with them in spirit he just doesn’t have the balls to get out in front like that

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  181. 176… funny stuff, Steve!

    Colonel Haiku (45091a)

  182. DRJ, it’s about enough for me to go to Syria and join the opposition. Just enough to get a beach head on the Med and open a brewery and resort near Latakia.

    “Aramaic Ale” will be the brand.

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  183. I can only imagine how difficult it would be to understand conservatism but live in a state that rejects it. I have no disrespect for those in California or Illinois who have very little sanity at any level of their government.

    My oft repeated point about Texas is meant to highlight that the GOP is essentially ignoring Texas in one of its most crucial decisions. By the time we make our primary votes, the outcome is usually determined. Primaries are expensive and support is heavily based on success in early states.

    Don’t take it as individual disrespect, but Texas does pick a better government and we are an example of how conservatism is a good idea. It makes a lot of sense for the primaries to reflect that. I think it would kill off a lot of the duds we keep nominating.

    Dustin (724be4)

  184. Coronello, I’ll be playing the Armada Lounge in Tahoe all week.

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  185. a matter of principle, TaLaLa… something that you as a lefty wouldn’t understand. long story short, most Republicans understand that what can’t continue won’t. That concept is as foreign to Democrats as self-accountability and personal responsibility are.

    Colonel Haiku (45091a)

  186. The problem is when you replace a lefty like McGreevey you end up with some one farther to thte left, or a crook, Corzine fits in both, or take Weiner, who was a slimy polecat, but he was replaced by DeBlasio, who is the white version of Obama,

    An interesting sidelight, Weiner was the model in part for the Congressman in ‘State of Play’ who protested he knew nothing of his staffer’s passing, but was almost entirely responsible for it,

    narciso (3fec35)

  187. a matter of principle, TaLaLa… something that you as a lefty wouldn’t understand. long story short, most Republicans understand that what can’t continue won’t. That concept is as foreign to Democrats as self-accountability and personal responsibility are.

    So out of principle you threw a tantrum that hurt a lot of people and damaged the national economy and did nothing to advance your goals, unless of course hurting people and the economy is your goal…?

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  188. happyfeet,

    I understand why you think religion and traditional social conservatism are political losers. However, it’s a fact that people who aren’t religious support Obama and people who are religious don’t. It’s also a fact that red states like Texas that vote for Republicans/conservtives have lower percentages of people who describe themselves as not religious.

    I don’t think these are coincidences. Maybe that means there is no hope for Republicans/conservatives because America is becoming less and less religious and traditional. Or maybe that trend will be reversed as people see value in religion and the traditional family during hard economic times. I honestly don’t know what will happen.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  189. Obama is the one throwing a tantrum to further his plan to intentionally hurt America for partisan gain.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  190. 183. 176… funny stuff, Steve!

    Comment by Colonel Haiku (45091a) — 10/12/2013 @ 7:29 pm

    My conscience compels me to confess I wasn’t making that up. It might not have been the Soryu. It could have been the Akagi, Kaga, or Hiryu. But one of the admirals and captains in those ships after getting he crew off declined to abandon ship themselves. Instead they pronounced they’d stay aboard to contemplate the Moon.

    Not really funny stuff when you think about it. They did ride it to the bottom.

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  191. Sooo. Do you feel good about the park service’s costly and unlawful gestapo tactics, tlaloc? Make you proud to be a democrat, do they? What have the lefty blogs been saying about the NPS jackboots? What have the lefty blogs been saying about the administration’s stated policy of causing maximum pain? Any outrage you can point us to from “your” side?

    elissa (0b17af)

  192. * The

    Damned optical mouse! I know I typed in the t.

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  193. Actually, after reading a few Stephen Ambrose books about Iwo Jima and Japanese behavior throughout the Pacific Theater in general, I find it hilarious.

    Colonel Haiku (45091a)

  194. Obama has been throwing a tantrum that has harmed the economy for five years. And we just saw that the result of the Democrats’ incompetence is that Obamacare is going to contribute hundreds of billions more in deficit than projected, actually add insurance for less than half as many people as predicted, and is not only not going to be effective at reducing premiums – its in fact going to cause insurance premiums to skyrocket at many times the rate of recent years.

    And push everyone into part time jobs if they can find jobs at all.

    We need far more than a “tantrum” to stop it.

    SPQR (768505)

  195. 190. …unless of course hurting people and the economy is your goal…?

    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/12/2013 @ 7:41 pm

    What tune are you going to be singing, Flailoc, when (not if) it comes out that the Obama administration had all the authority it needed to pay death gratuities to troops KIA and just refused to out of partisan spite?

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  196. “hurt a lot of people and damaged the national economy and did nothing to advance your goals,”

    puhleeeeeeze… what a load of horsesh*t.

    Colonel Haiku (45091a)

  197. What tune are you singing now, Flailoc, now that commercial and non-profit enterprises that were illegally shut by the NPS are now back up and running because of the threat of lawsuits the feds knew they couldn’t win?

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  198. Someone who orders businesses and non profits that he does not control to stop business is the true tantrum. Orders the Park Service to put cones on a public highway to stop people from parking at a wide spot in the highway. Prohibits fishing guides with paid permits from fishing in the open ocean. Shut down one of only two roads into a city in Colorado whose roads were washed away in flood.

    Crap, that’s a lie. Obama’s actions are nothing short of lawless dictatorship.

    SPQR (768505)

  199. Really he named himself after the God of Rain and Fertility, what a swelled head.

    narciso (3fec35)

  200. ==because America is becoming less and less religious and traditional.==

    I think this is a key factoid we all need to to consider especially with respect to the Millennials.

    I see nothing that suggests they are going to turn back to religion and traditional social values. I do see some indication that thrift and thinking outside the economic box in terms of careers speaks to this group. I believe they are cynical and do not think “the government” will be there for them as they age, and so they are showing more entrepreneurial spirit and awareness of self sufficiency than perhaps the gen-xers do. They are much more disillusioned with politics than their predecessor generations. In other words I think some well crafted and very pointed to their age group conservative economic messages might get through.

    elissa (0b17af)

  201. It’s disgusting, SPQR.

    The fact we’re noting the myriad features of the Obama dictatorship Flailoc twists into something like “conservatives like their government freebies.”

    BS. We want to put gub’mint out of business, at least to the point they can’t deny us access to forests, mountains, and oceans.

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  202. America is becoming less and less

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  203. in other news-

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_gubernatorial_election,_2013#Polling_2

    26 polls in a row showing McAuliffe leading for VA gov.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Lieutenant_Governor_election,_2013#Polling_2

    10 out of 11 polls (including the latest two) showing Northam leading for VA lt. Gov.

    multiple polls now show the GOP at the lowest favorability in at least 20 years. You can’t say there weren’t plenty of people telling you a shutdown was a terrible idea…

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  204. Boy did Boehner ever dodge the executioner today.

    Fortunately, amazingly, Buggerer in Chief demanded unconditional surrender.

    Even Crybaby knows there is no hope of selling that, so now the GOP really is scared.

    Lord of the Flies demands a default.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  205. As I understand the situation, the House Republican leadership wanted to pass a bill extending the debt limit (maybe until November 22) but the House Democrats refused to vote for it unless the continuing resolution was also included.

    In the Senate, Senator Susan Collns was working on a proposal to extend the debt limit to about January, and a continuing resolution till about March, while also repealing the medical devices tax, which more than 2/3 of both Houses wants to get rid of, for the next two years, and adding some income verification (for subsidies) to the health care exchanges, but Harry Reid and top Senate Democrats rejected it (because they said, they wanted more spending than the continuing resolution would give them, because it continues and amplifies the sequester) and then headed toward the White Housee to meet with President Obama and plot their next move.

    Sammy Finkelman (bec8ba)

  206. It doesn’t take long, or require much skill. Call up your granny, right now, and tell her you are strongly in favor of cutting her Social Security and Medicare.

    Except that nobody wants to do that. While in principle the complete and immediate abolition of Social Security would be justified, every practical proposal I have ever seen or heard of, from anybody on the right, leaves current recipients entirely alone, and deals only with those who have not yet retired, and will have time to adjust their retirement plans.

    Milhouse (ce9b15)

  207. What Harry Reid and other Democrats have been wanting is a long term, unconditional, extension of the debt limit, coupled with a short term continuing resolution.

    They don’t want a debt limit increase without a continuing resolution, and they don’t want one that goes on for a long time with it.

    They want another standoff in November, with only a government shutdown at stake, during which they hope to get spending levels on certain things lifted, and possibly some new taxes.

    They don’t want any of these “piecemeal” bills passed, because they take the functions of government they deal with out of play until next October 1.

    Sammy Finkelman (bec8ba)

  208. What tune are you going to be singing, Flailoc, when (not if) it comes out that the Obama administration had all the authority it needed to pay death gratuities to troops KIA and just refused to out of partisan spite?

    I can’t say that’d overly bother me. You guys decided the government was superfluous, you get to eat the pain of that short sighted view.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  209. True, gary, there is only surrender, he eliminates any opposition by bribe, fraud, defamation,

    narciso (3fec35)

  210. Except that nobody wants to do that.

    Read the Ryan budget.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  211. DRJ the traditional family is nice

    but does it really have to be something like 85% of the whole entire raison d’être for religion?

    I wish I could talk more now but I have to go out and I think maybe I’ll be out of pocket for awhile so I’m a bookmark this

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  212. 206. Careful what you wish for Howard J. Today a power outage at Xerox, during their software upgrade, in MS, brought down the EBT in states across the country.

    The underclass was about to riot and shoot up and burn their neighborhoods to teach us all a lesson.

    We are only months away from a permanent crash of that system. Keep the weenies on ice.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  213. The fact we’re noting the myriad features of the Obama dictatorship Flailoc twists into something like “conservatives like their government freebies.”

    BS. We want to put gub’mint out of business, at least to the point they can’t deny us access to forests, mountains, and oceans.

    As is sadly typical you get it exactly backwards- government being out of business is precisely why you lost access to the federal lands. If you put Disney out of business don’t b*tch that you can’t go to disneyland…

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  214. He really does ‘remove all doubt’, there really is no other sustainable alternative model, the collapse of the family and other institutions, makes the state the only arbiter, or failing that, an even more committed faith, as we are discovering in Europe with Islam,

    narciso (3fec35)

  215. 181. Comment by DRJ (a83b8b) — 10/12/2013 @ 7:24 pm

    The Republican Senators want to raise the debt limit until 1/31/2014. The Democratic Senators want to raise it permanently. Otherwise, they seem to be on the same page.

    Th Democrats didn’t like the FCollins plan because it extended the continuing resolution for six months, through March or so. Remember, the House bill that defunded Obamacare but funded everything else at the old levels went through December 15, but the Senate changed the date to November 15 (and was “clean.”)

    Harry Reid doesn’t want the next continuing resolution to be “clean.”

    Sammy Finkelman (bec8ba)

  216. 213. And presumably Rep. Ryan will read the Voter Summit poll, which confab he had to miss and send a video address due to Peace negotiations.

    He got 4% coming in 6th, 1% behind Rubio.

    Oh, and more good news, Gallup has the Dems in Congress losing a point off their all-time record low at last polling.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  217. 211. …You guys decided the government was superfluous, you get to eat the pain of that short sighted view.

    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/12/2013 @ 8:13 pm

    Next to “a**hole” in the dictionary there’s Flailoc’s picture.

    Somehow those of us who served in the military but are now against profligate spending have decided the entire government is superfluous.

    I do not want Flailoc to be banned, Pat. Let me emphasize that point.

    He/She/It provides useful insight into the twisted mind of the creature that the troops now have to deal with as CinC.

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  218. ==You guys decided the government was superfluous, you get to eat the pain of that short sighted view.==

    You’ve pretty much worn out your welcome here, Tlaloc. But until you understand that there are gradations between “no government”, “smaller but necessary government” , “big government” and “wildly out of control bureaucratic statist government” you will not be taken seriously here because your straw man arguments are not worth responding to.

    elissa (0b17af)

  219. Somehow those of us who served in the military but are now against profligate spending have decided the entire government is superfluous.

    Read your fellow posters writing, Steve. They are openly talking about destroying government. Norquist, a leading figure on the right given how his pledge is virtually required for GOP congressmen.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  220. 216. …As is sadly typical you get it exactly backwards- government being out of business is precisely why you lost access to the federal lands. If you put Disney out of business don’t b*tch that you can’t go to disneyland…

    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/12/2013 @ 8:16 pm

    This is like a carnival game. Spot the idiocy. 25 cents a throw.

    I’ll start. If you put the gub’mint out of the bid’ness of land baronny, does the land cease to exist?

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  221. You’ve pretty much worn out your welcome here, Tlaloc. But until you understand that there are gradations between “no government”, “smaller but necessary government” , “big government” and “wildly out of control bureaucratic statist government” you will not be taken seriously here because your straw man arguments are not worth responding to.

    I understand there can be gradations, elissa. What you need to understand is a WHOLE lot of your fellow travelers either don’t get that distinction or are all the way in the “let it burn.” In fact you can read any number of righty blogs where the acronym LiB is used with great frequency.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  222. oooooohhhhh wiki!… yay!!!

    Colonel Haiku (45091a)

  223. Other things going on regarding the budget: Paul Ryan has abandoned for now any talk of putting any element of a voucher system into Medicare, and is now talking about President Obama’s plan (which, however, he wants to attribute to Republicans) of means testing Medicare – it’s already means tested a little bit, in that part B premiums reflect income levels – and, according to the New York Times, “ensuring that taxpayers do not subsidize…MediGap plans” – does this mean not making them deductible?

    I think the idea of raising the Medicare eligibility age is also somewhere on the table, at least as a subject for future discussion.

    Sammy Finkelman (bec8ba)

  224. I think a whole slew of young Obama voters finding they’re making $35K and their insurance rates have doubled and they get no subsidy will concentrate their thinking immeasurably.

    Slowdown? Shutdown? Hell no, burn DC to the ground.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  225. 222. Read your fellow posters writing, Steve.

    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/12/2013 @ 8:25 pm

    I prefer to stick with mocking the nonsense you’re writing.

    Which includes mocking the nonsense you’re saying about my fellow commenters.

    It comes with.

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  226. If you put the gub’mint out of the bid’ness of land baronny, does the land cease to exist?

    No but your access to it does. Why is this hard for you to understand. If business shutsdown they lock the doors and go home. You can stand outside pounding on the windows but you can’t go in.

    You really should be able to understand this concept steve, it’s extremely straightforward.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  227. Obama is the weakest of sucks and his Legacy of Epic Fail awaits him.

    Colonel Haiku (45091a)

  228. Slowdown? Shutdown? Hell no, burn DC to the ground.

    Thank you for proving my point. Steve, elissa, are you paying attention?

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  229. Which includes mocking the nonsense you’re saying about my fellow commenters.

    That would have been more effective if gary hadn’t just proven me right.

    Whoopsy daisy.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  230. Obama is the weakest of sucks and his Legacy of Epic Fail awaits him.

    So…why does he keep beating you so badly?

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  231. 229. The concept is shove the weak, unsuspecting girl in front of you under the train. The society will take care of you, at the same yearly cost as a Yale education, for the remainder of your vacuous days.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  232. Unprecedented shutdown of National Parks and Memorials by this president, TaLaLa. Chew on that Obama tantrum for a while.

    Colonel Haiku (45091a)

  233. I can’t say that’d overly bother me.

    And why would it? Your degree of sincere compassion and legitimate generosity likely are as shallow and superficial as your common sense.

    discoverthenetworks.org: Ever since the New Deal, liberals and leftists have depicted themselves as more compassionate than conservatives, citing, as evidence of their compassion, their own preference for raising taxes on high earners in the name of helping the poor. As author and radio personality Garrison Keillor puts it: “I am a liberal, and liberalism is the politics of kindness. Liberals stand for tolerance, magnanimity, community spirit, the defense of the weak against the powerful …”

    In an effort to determine how accurate that perception is, American Enterprise Institute president Arthur C. Brooks made a comprehensive study of how charitable giving correlates to political orientation, and he published his findings in the 2006 book Who Really Cares. All the evidence, says the author, suggests that conservatives are in fact more generous than liberals.

    All told, Brooks sees “four forces in American life that are primarily responsible for making Americans charitable” — “religion, skepticism about the role of government in economic life, strong families, and personal entrepreneurism.” While these traits are not limited solely to the political right, Brooks shows that the beliefs held by the most generous Americans are far more likely to be held by the right than by the left.

    For example, the “redder” a particular state is (i.e., the more its voters support Republican candidates in elections), the likelier its residents are to be charitable. According to Brooks, fully 24 of the 25 most generous states were red ones (only Maryland was a charitably minded blue, or Democrat-supporting, state). Residents of the five states that cast more than 60 percent of their ballots for President Bush in 2004 gave 3.5 percent of their incomes to charity, nearly twice as much per person as residents of the five states (including the District of Columbia) where Democrat John Kerry received 60 percent of the vote or better. This, says Brooks, occurred even though residents of the deep-blue pro-Kerry states earned, on average, 38 percent more per household than their red-state counterparts.

    Brooks also cites a 2004 survey conducted by Syracuse University, which compared the charitable giving habits of people who were identical in age, income, education, gender, religion, race, and political views — and whose only disagreement was that one group of subjects thought it was the government’s job to redistribute income from the rich to the poor, while the other thought that income redistribution was none of the state’s business. Those who opposed government income-redistribution contributed, on average, $267 more to charity each year than the income-redistribution advocates. “In other words,” Brooks writes, “people in favor of forced income redistribution are privately less charitable than those who oppose it, regardless of how much money they earn.”

    Economists have long known that if the state expands, the private sector shrinks; they call this process the “public goods crowding-out effect.” Brooks, in his book, cites a 2005 paper, published by the National Bureau of Economic Research, in which economists Jonathan Gruber and Daniel M. Hungerman explore how this “crowding-out effect” manifested itself vis a vis charitable contributions during the New Deal. The researchers note that while the welfare state between 1933 and 1939 expanded from zero to four percent of America’s gross domestic product, religious charities shrank by 30 percent during the same period.

    Brooks finds a similar crowding-out process taking place today. Under current welfare laws, states set the payments under Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF), the principal government welfare program. Tennessee’s TANF payments are 61 percent lower than New Hampshire’s, and Tennesseans give, on average, 4.3 percent of their incomes to charity — well above the 1.8 percent in New Hampshire. Brooks calculates that if Tennessee were to raise its welfare payments to New Hampshire’s level, charitable giving in Tennessee would fall by 42 percent.

    Oh, and speaking of the New Deal and its leading proponent, here’s another a-ha! moment to consider:

    latimes.com April 2013: In 1923, as a member of the Harvard board of directors, [Franklin Delano] Roosevelt decided there were too many Jewish students at the college and helped institute a quota to limit the number admitted. In 1938, he privately suggested that Jews in Poland were dominating the economy and were therefore to blame for provoking anti-Semitism there.

    In 1941, he remarked at a Cabinet meeting that there were too many Jews among federal employees in Oregon. In 1943, he told government officials in Allied-liberated North Africa that the number of local Jews in various professions “should be definitely limited” so as to “eliminate the specific and understandable complaints which the Germans bore towards the Jews in Germany.”

    There is evidence of other troubling private remarks by FDR too, including dismissing pleas for Jewish refugees as “Jewish wailing” and “sob stuff”; expressing (to a senator ) his pride that “there is no Jewish blood in our veins”; and characterizing a tax maneuver by a Jewish newspaper publisher as “a dirty Jewish trick.”

    This attitude dovetails with what is known about FDR’s views regarding immigrants in general and Asian immigrants in particular…. In a series of articles for the Macon (Ga.) Daily Telegraph and for Asia magazine in the 1920s, he warned against granting citizenship to “non-assimilable immigrants” and opposed Japanese immigration on the grounds that “mingling Asiatic blood with European or American blood produces, in nine cases out of ten, the most unfortunate results.” He recommended that future immigration should be limited to those who had “blood of the right sort.”

    Mark (58ea35)

  234. Drink deep of the truth, TaLaLa…

    Colonel Haiku (45091a)

  235. 235. Beating us? 25% of the eligible electorate re-elected the Gay Prostitute.

    I’d say we were beaten already.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  236. OMFG! Flailoc thinks that if the gub’mint is put out of the land baronny bid’ness, no one can use the land!

    Is this not beyond parody or what?

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  237. There is no “bank account”

    There actually is. It may amount to nothing more than the right pocket owing money to the left pocket, but there is an account.

    That’s not an account. It’s Homer’s emergency stash of doughnuts, that’s got nothing in it but IOUs from himself.

    Milhouse (ce9b15)

  238. Which less needed bureaucracies or specific government agencies are you willing to put in the block to lower the debt–since you “understand the gradations”, Tlaloc? Show some good faith here. Surely you can come up with something to cut.

    Say, What do you think “let it burn” means? Do you suppose there are multiple messages from that phrase? When people say “let it burn” with respect to Obamacare do you understand they mean they want to let it fail under its own weight and incompetence?

    elissa (0b17af)

  239. Frankly, a guy that would use the full force of the IRS to silence his political opponents would have no ethical or moral issues restricting access to our NPs and memorials.

    Colonel Haiku (45091a)

  240. 233. Proven you right that our Federal government, the 17% that is furloughed, is necessary to sustain our lives and happiness?

    What part have you, personally, missed and found wanting? I got nuthin’.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  241. Now this doesn’t surprise me, with the insanity over Doerner, and other incitements to violence, which somehow are not in twitter’s purview.

    narciso (3fec35)

  242. How about a Cliff’s notes version of that, Mark?

    elissa (0b17af)

  243. 245. And yesterday JPMorgan had nearly $600 Billion beyond deposits, not loaned out.

    Its making 0.25% on the dollars it keeps on reserve with the Fed. Wells Fargo, the largest mortgage writer is losing money on diminishing margins. Why do banks need us?

    Now we have Greece, Spain and Italy all needing a bail-in ready to seize deposits, so the ECB will have to start printing euros in earnest.

    Look for FX wars to really start ramping up.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  244. Liberals are stingy with their own money, and their attachment to eugenics, makes them more then a little zenophobic,

    narciso (3fec35)

  245. That seems a little on the low side, what’s in Morgan’s basket that’s of worth,

    narciso (3fec35)

  246. DRJ @102. That Jonah Goldberg column ran in Friday’s New York Post, page 25, opposite the editorial page.

    I quoted the same Obama press conference question and answer in a comment.

    https://patterico.com/2013/10/08/obama-faces-zero-questions-on-glaring-issues-at-presser/ (comment number 68)

    Sammy Finkelman (bec8ba)

  247. 245. It’s the Democrats who a refusing to extend the debt limit (they want it tied to a continuing resolution, but not one that continues funding for too long)

    Sammy Finkelman (bec8ba)

  248. A “glitch” means you didn’t save a family photo before a Windows update shut down your computer.

    That is not the same thing as a federal system to control your health care.

    Just saying.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  249. 234. So…why does he keep beating you so badly?

    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/12/2013 @ 8:33 pm

    First good question you asked. If you’ve noticed from my comments, I’ve been asking the same very question for months. How does everybody except the GOP keep outflanking this loser?

    The defund Obamacare thingy was never going to happen. We all knew that. But your opening gambit in a negotiation is never your final position. I would have settled for the Vitter amendment and also the WH and its staff being put on Obamacare.

    I wrote my congressman on these thoughts last night when I finished work. These are not symbolic concessions. Obama keeps talking about the catastrophic failures of Obamacare as “glitches.” He can afford to. He doesn’t have to deal with them.

    If he, or more importantly his staff, had to experience them then he’d be open to modifying or scrapping aspects of his signature legislation as they proved unworkable.

    The one year delay in the mandate could be dropped as a condition of the CR because we’re going to get that anyway. Obama isn’t going to meet his goal of 7 million new enrollees in Obamacare by March, and it won’t be fair to penalize people for not buying something his exchanges make impossible to get.

    Why the GOP doesn’t make this their take-it-or-leave-it offer I don’t know. It puts President Mean Girl of defending special privilege for special people as if it could be construed by anyone but the most committed Obamabot as principle.

    The preezy won’t negotiate with a gun to his head? Why not? That’s how he wants you to buy his health insurance.

    I could make this work. Easily. Why can’t Boehner?

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  250. *…it puts President Mean Girl in the position of defending…*

    Optical mouse strikes again.

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  251. Cliff notes version of 237:

    1. People who characterize themselves as liberal, or those who think it is the government’s job to give money to the poor, give less money to charity, even if you exclude contributions to churches. (he’s mentioned the last thing other times)

    2. FDR helped Harvard establish a quota for Jews, and for very long kept on thinking Jews getting too many good jobs was the cause of anti-semitism, and expressed now and then some other close to anti-Jewish remarks (complaining about sob stories, saying to a Senator he had no Jewish blood, and calling a tax manuever a dirty “Jewish” trick)

    3. FDR didn’t approve of Japanese immigration to the U.S. because he thought mixed marriages with Asiatics produced unfortinate results.

    Sammy Finkelman (bec8ba)

  252. Except that nobody wants to do that.

    Read the Ryan budget.

    You are a blatant, shameless liar. The Ryan budget made no cuts at all to the benefits of current Social Security recipients.

    Milhouse (ce9b15)

  253. Boehner doesn’t believe it, they had to be dragged kicking and screaming into this effort, by the committed caucus,

    narciso (3fec35)

  254. elissa:

    In other words I think some well crafted and very pointed to their age group conservative economic messages might get through.

    The problem with this approach is that young people — when faced with the choice between big government promises vs conservative government opportunities — tend to choose the former. The exception is young people who are religious or traditional, but there aren’t as many of them.

    Obviously, we can hope that young people will respond to conservative fiscal policies, but I think that’s as much wishful thinking as the hope they will become more traditional or religious. The reality is that conservatives don’t have much chance with young people, because they are often so set in their beliefs that it’s hard to get either liberal or conservative young people to change their minds.

    But we do have a good chance with voters in their 30s and up, people who tend to be starting families and businesses/jobs, and who thus may be more open to conservative fiscal and social values. I think Republicans and conservatives would be more successful spending more effort trying to appeal to the values of those voters.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  255. Apparently Tlaloc dies not wish to contribute to the discussion by sharing his opinions or the opinions of others on the left about the myriad NPS travesties and insults. Nor apparently can he come up with even the teensiest thing or department to cut within the federal government. Well, here’s another chance. How are you feeling about the Obamacare roll-out so far, Tlaloc? Are you proud? Is it how you envisioned its glorious inauguration would be? Do you enjoy confidence in your administration’s handling of the health insurance “overhaul”? Or do you maybe feel a little bit conned by Nancy and Sebelius and Obama–and sort of embarrassed that you have to defend such an abysmal trainwreck? Come on. You can be honest with us.

    elissa (0b17af)

  256. 254. Comment by Steve57 (4bf843) — 10/12/2013 @ 9:06 pm

    Obama keeps talking about the catastrophic failures of Obamacare as “glitches.” He can afford to. He doesn’t have to deal with them.

    If he, or more importantly his staff, had to experience them then he’d be open to modifying or scrapping aspects of his signature legislation as they proved unworkable.

    But that’s contrary to a central goal of Obamacare, which is that employers should provide health insurance. That is why they get a penalty if they don’t, and then any of their employees gets a subsidy from an exchange. (this part as postponned one year)

    And if they have no more than 50 full time equivalents, the employers are supposed to get a subsidy.

    The exchanges are only a fallback, and no more than 10% of Americans are supposed to be covered by policies originating from them. The rest being on Medicare, or Medicaid (which they might be directed to from an exchange) or using a policy endorsed by an employer.

    Small employers also have an exchange of their own, which is not online yet.

    Sammy Finkelman (bec8ba)

  257. As is sadly typical you get it exactly backwards- government being out of business is precisely why you lost access to the federal lands.

    They’re our lands, you moron.

    Milhouse (ce9b15)

  258. DRJ, you are uncharacteristically down about young people.

    Let me try to cheer you up.

    A 3rd Battalion 3rd Marines India Company Corpsman in full PPE signals a Helo into a LZ in Afganistan by shuffling with Christmas lights wrapped around him. The pilots loved it.

    Read more: http://www.duffelblog.com/2012/09/everyday-im-shufflin-in-the-lz/#ixzz2hZYfM449

    All is not lost.

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  259. No, that’s the stated purpose, but not the actual one,

    narciso (3fec35)

  260. Steve57,

    I’m not “uncharacteristically down about young people.” First, I’ve always felt this way about them and the likelihood we could win their votes. Second, it’s not negative to believe young people lack the maturity to understand the importance of fiscal responsibility, religion, or traditional social values. They are immature, especially in today’s world where more and more young people are delaying families and jobs.

    It’s no surprise they don’t value the things that enable them to be successful in their jobs or in raising a family, and it should be no surprise that they vote for Democratic/liberal promises rather than Republican/conservative opportunities. What I’m optimistic about is that that a good percentage of them will change their minds as they age and take on more responsibilities.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  261. I was thinking the same thing, narcisso.

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  262. Maybe you’re right about the Millennials, DRJ. My theory is to try to get em while they’re young. (By their first or second election.) After that I’m afraid they just freeze in a party identity which is harder and harder to change as they get older.

    elissa (0b17af)

  263. Cliff notes version of 237:

    Per Elissa’s request, thank you.

    and expressed now and then some other close to anti-Jewish remarks

    Sammy, “close to?” The only thing closer to outright Klu-Klux-Klan bigotry on FDR’s part would have been for him to slip on a hood and white robes:

    “eliminate the specific and understandable complaints which the Germans bore towards the Jews in Germany.”

    BTW, I recall your concluding the astonishing bigotry of another liberal — and FDR’s Democrat predecessor — Woodrow Wilson, as somehow being the by-product of his Southern roots. But I don’t believe that FDR’s homestead of Hyde Park, New York is or was exactly in the heart of Dixie.

    However, I will grant you that perhaps a tiny bit of another liberal Democrat president’s mannerisms, referring to Bill Clinton’s reported use of the “n” word in casual conversations — eg, when excoriating a black activist he sees walking down a street in Little Rock — can be traced to his Southern heritage. Along with telling Ted Kennedy that Obama in the past would have been relegated to serving coffee to folks like Bill and Teddy.

    Simply put, the compassion and benevolence of the compassion crowd is always a joy to behold. Including when, in a hissy fit, they decide to close off public parks and public memorials.

    Mark (58ea35)

  264. elissa,

    That’s a a laudable goal but it’s too little, too late. We need to get them in the homes and grade schools, before they are in high school or college. Unless the family has traditional values, it’s too late to hope we can overcome the indoctrination by the educational system and the entertainment industry. At that point, we have to wait until they start their families, jobs and businesses and get mugged by reality.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  265. That’s why vouchers are so important.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  266. DRJ, I admit I worked with a small subset of young people. 18 year olds who joined the Marines or the Navy. Who by the time they were 19 year olds no longer believed in big government promises.

    These are the stupid ones, according to John Kerry.

    http://patdollard.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/John-Kerry-Help-us-we-are-stuck-in-IRAQ.jpg

    They can be reached before they hit 30.

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  267. The problem is a generation, that thinks a sneer by Stewaet or Colbert, is an argument, just consider that god awful dreck that Stone and PArker dredged up re Zimmerman, ‘really brave’ they have proven themselves,

    narciso (3fec35)

  268. There is no question in my mind that we absolutely have to separate the messages about fiscal responsibility and smaller government from social and religious matters. These are important matters to many people and of course to some degree they are inter-related. But they matter in different intensity to different groups and to some groups not at all. The younger voters absolutely tune out the social, moral, and especially religious narratives of Republicans. I’m sorry. But they do. We’ve got to focus on the economics.

    elissa (0b17af)

  269. The reason it bothers me about trying to appeal to young people is we undercut our message to everyone else. We are the party that offers opportunities so people can provide for themselves. Young people don’t feel like they can provide for themselves because they typically don’t have skills or experience. They want concrete promises that someone will help them get a leg up. Republicans aren’t in the business of offering benefits to special interest groups, and I don’t think they should be.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  270. If we carve out traditional values, we lose our base.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  271. Comment by Milhouse (ce9b15) — 10/12/2013 @ 8:39 pm

    It’s Homer’s emergency stash of doughnuts, that’s got nothing in it but IOUs from himself.

    It’s an accounting device, and is as real as a corppration owing money to a subsidiary.

    The Social Security trust fund is very real – debt held by it counts toward the debt limit, and the Social Security administration redeeming it and then the federal government turning around and selling an equivalent amount of debt to somebody else does not increase the federal debt.

    Sammy Finkelman (bec8ba)

  272. Steve57:

    They can be reached before they hit 30.

    Of course they can, but only if they come from traditional families or start a career. You tend to see both in the military. Most young people aren’t like that.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  273. It’s why Obama wants them all to go to college forever. It keeps them young, impressionable, and helpless.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  274. 268. “Understandable” doesn’t mean right. In fact, it means the opposite. Because if you think something is just and right, you don’t say “understandable.”

    There was lot else being said about Jews in Germany that he didn’t find even “understandable”

    He fell prey to the idea that something could be wrong, or felt to be wrong, with Jews (and in principle any other group of people) getting a dispropportionate number of high prestige jobs.

    That’s as far as he went.

    Sammy Finkelman (bec8ba)

  275. It’s Homer’s emergency stash of doughnuts, that’s got nothing in it but IOUs from himself.

    It’s an accounting device, and is as real as a corppration owing money to a subsidiary.

    It’s bullshit, exactly like that. Can a subsidiary sue its parent for payment? The subsidiary is the parent. If the company decides not to pay the “debt”, it doesn’t get paid. If it decides to “pay” treble, then treble gets “paid”. The “debt’s” existence makes absolutely no difference, so in what sense does it exist?

    The Social Security trust fund is very real –

    In dictionaries where “real” means “imaginary”.

    debt held by it counts toward the debt limit,

    Not really. They say it does, but I doubt any court would see it that way.

    and the Social Security administration redeeming it and then the federal government turning around and selling an equivalent amount of debt to somebody else does not increase the federal debt.

    Of course it does. Before the transaction the taxpayers were on the hook for only so much, and now they’re on the hook for more. That’s the only definition of federal debt that makes any difference at all.

    Milhouse (ce9b15)

  276. get mugged by reality.

    But regrettably some of them can be mugged a hundred times over and they still don’t change their tune one iota.

    I was speaking with a person in his 40s the other day — who is the picture postcard of a person living the good life in a traditional household, with a wife and kids — and he stated that the liberal ideology he admires is still shared by that of his father, over 20 years the son’s senior. The 40-something person’s POV was dripping with the stereotypes promoted by (per my previous post) someone like Garrison Keillor—and, btw, I snipped out from my previous excerpt the part where Keillor describes conservatives/Republicans as being “bullies with Bibles,” “freelance racists,” and “brownshirts in pinstripes.”

    Mark (58ea35)

  277. I’m not saying I don’t want young people to vote Republican or that we shouldn’t reach out to them. What I’m saying is we shouldn’t try to alter our message to capture their votes, because I don’t think it will work and it could very well alienate others who are more likely to vote for us.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  278. That’s as far as he went.

    Sammy, your rationalizing away the true nature of FDR reminds me of your stating not long ago that Obama, because he merely socialized and partied with leftists, was therefore not intrinsically an ultra-liberal himself.

    Mark (58ea35)

  279. Mark:

    But regrettably some of them can be mugged a hundred times over and they still don’t change their tune one iota.

    And there are others who will be reliably conservative no matter what happens to them. Some of this is ingrained because of where they live, their experiences in life, and maybe even because of their genes. But people do change their minds and when they do, it’s usually because of experience.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  280. ==They can be reached before they hit 30==.

    Mark this moment on your calendar, Steve57. At 9:34pM on Oct 12 2013 we agreed on something important.

    I think the caveats that DRJ places on reaching these prospects help, but I do not think they are essential. The numbers of Millennials who were not raised in traditional two parent homes from birth to adulthood is staggering. If we can’t reach some good portion of this generation soon we may as well give up. I’m not willing to do that.

    elissa (0b17af)

  281. elissa:

    The numbers of Millennials who were not raised in traditional two parent homes from birth to adulthood is staggering.

    Specifically, how do you reach them? What can you offer them that the Democrats don’t?

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  282. and maybe even because of their genes.

    DRJ, that part both intrigues and worries me.

    After observing and dealing with the people I had lunch with on Thursday, I’m even more convinced that a percentage of humans are innately — intrinsically, biologically — wedded to a certain political philosophy, no matter what. A ton of bricks could fall on their head and they’d still be of the left (or, for that matter, right). That phenomenon concerns me because it explains why a society can soon become very dysfunctional and corroded, and why turning things around will be extremely difficult.

    Mark (58ea35)

  283. DRJ–I stated in #203 as well as I could articulate it why I think that at this particular time and under our current economic conditions some of these twenty somethings may be reachable. Clearly many will not be. I can see from your comments that you view this emerging generation as a whole somewhat differently than I do. I wonder again if there may be the geographic effect at play here as I find is often the case on this great blog.

    elissa (0b17af)

  284. With rare exception, someone from a single-parent home will feel financial insecurity because there was only one parent to bring home a paycheck. The government is almost always the fall-back for these families, so Democrats will always be their preference. The best and perhaps only hope for conservatives is convincing single-parent adult offspring that it’s in their interest to get married and have a two-parent family. We won’t have any luck with 20-somethings who believe they can conquer the world, but people approaching 30 may be more open to these values.

    I think fiscal conservatism and traditional values go hand-in-hand. There can’t be small government without individual responsibility, and individual responsibility is very hard without a two-parent family.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  285. Comment by Mark (58ea35) — 10/12/2013 @ 9:58 pm

    Sammy, your rationalizing away the true nature of FDR

    I’m just saying what this means is limited. It was really FDR rationalizing what was going on in Germany, because of the one thing he sort of agreed with.

    reminds me of your stating not long ago that Obama, because he merely socialized and partied with leftists, was therefore not intrinsically an ultra-liberal himself.

    No, I don’t think so, and I don’t see it. Obama’s associations with ultra-liberals, if that’s the right word, whom he may not have realized were quite as ultra-liberal as they were, was purely for personal advantage. By the time he came around, they were the establishment in many places.

    Sammy Finkelman (bec8ba)

  286. 289. Sort of agreesd with because FDR never favored exclusion of Jews from any occupation.

    Sammy Finkelman (bec8ba)

  287. FDR also had tremendous political cowardice. He couldn’t even openly say to anyone he wanted to get rid of his vice-president in 1944.

    Sammy Finkelman (bec8ba)

  288. He wasn’t very honest, either. This drove his political opponents mad.

    Sammy Finkelman (bec8ba)

  289. I should have mentioned a study that I read about several years ago that involved research on the behavior of identical twins. The study theorized that among the traits innate to twins — and therefore applicable to humans in general — were political beliefs. If so, that may be a characteristic perhaps just as immutable, if not more so, than sexuality, since some studies have also observed identical twins where one was heterosexual, the other was homosexual.

    Mark (58ea35)

  290. Virtually all the young people I know are conservative so I have great faith in them, but I live in a place where two-parent households are more common and traditional values still rule. Our kids are infused with those values and even though they grow more liberal at college, they come back to those values when they start work.

    It could be geographic but the phenomenon is so pronounced that there’s a part of me that thinks this could be genetic. But, whatever it is, my point is that it’s not likely to work. If anything will work with young people, it will be peer pressure — something they are very susceptible to. Find a relatively young, articulate, charismatic candidate and many young people will rush to join the crowd.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  291. was purely for personal advantage

    Sammy, does that MO also apply to what makes, for example, commentator Pat Buchanan the way he is, the way he thinks?

    Mark (58ea35)

  292. I should add that while public schools in my area are more liberal than I’d like, they are conservative compared to many places. Plus, private schools are common in my area and they aren’t liberal at all.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  293. == Find a relatively young, articulate, charismatic candidate and many young people will rush to join the crowd.==

    Yes.

    elissa (0b17af)

  294. There were certain hot potatoes FDR never wanted to touch.

    And he was defensive when it came to accusations by Stalin of not starting a “second front.”

    Sammy Finkelman (bec8ba)

  295. Find a relatively young, articulate, charismatic candidate and many young people will rush to join the crowd.

    This isn’t an argument for Ted Cruz. I know the media will make sure young people can never support him.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  296. Mark this moment on your calendar, Steve57. At 9:34pM on Oct 12 2013 we agreed on something important.

    How should we commemorate the anniversary, eliss?

    With an exchange of cards or a fireworks display?

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  297. *elissA

    Dammit.

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  298. 297. He can be old if he’s articulate. Clear and coherent.

    I won’t mention where a Republican candidate can stumble, especially when it comes to young people.

    He can’t be coherently on the wrong side of some important issue, if his position on it matters..

    Sammy Finkelman (bec8ba)

  299. 301. There are a lot of problems with graphical user interfaces. Even a mouse.

    Sammy Finkelman (bec8ba)

  300. Who could have predicted that Republicans would fare unfavorably in the polls a couple of weeks after refusing to fund the government?

    Who could have predicted they would cave instantly upon seeing such polls?

    Anybody.

    The real question is, when did these polls get TAKEN?

    If it was right after the start, everyone responding had limited sources mostly the MSM calling them dirtbags.

    In the two weeks that followed, a lot of information came out, not the least of which was the exceptionally petty crap with regards to the parks — private and open-air (including, but not limited to, their removal of the handles from water fountains along the Chesapeake and Ohio canal where bikers and joggers exercise as well as along the Great Allegheny Passage, just to ensure people don’t get any water from them.

    That kind of petty crap would turn public opinion sharply against them. People getting rejected from unsupervised parks also does not sit well. So the tide of public opinion was heading very much against the Dems, not the GOP.

    I’m really getting so sick and tired of this spineless crap from certain members of the GOP. I’m going to find out who caved here, because if any of them are mine (I somewhat doubt it) then they aren’t going to be mine much longer. >:-/

    Ich Bin UberKimberlin, Official Prognosticator of the Loopy Left (afdedb)

  301. 295. Comment by Mark (58ea35) — 10/12/2013 @ 10:22 pm

    Sammy, does that MO also apply to what makes, for example, commentator Pat Buchanan the way he is, the way he thinks?

    Pat Buchanan is a bit of a sadist. Pro-violence, and cruelty.

    Sammy Finkelman (bec8ba)

  302. My idea of “relatively young” is 50-ish and under to me.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  303. DRJ My all time favorite definition of “middle age” is: Halfway between your own age and the oldest person you know.

    elissa (0b17af)

  304. 277. Of course they can, but only if they come from traditional families or start a career. You tend to see both in the military. Most young people aren’t like that.

    Comment by DRJ (a83b8b) — 10/12/2013 @ 9:43 pm

    Can you please, pretty please, stop telling me what you think we tend to see in the military.

    Would it kill you to listen to me tell you what we see in the military? Kids from single mom homes where the mom’s so young, she’d try to sign up once she saw her kid got a good deal.

    Not kidding. There was a guy who did a robbery while overseas during his two weeks active duty as a reservist.

    We never would have caught the guy but for his mom. He dropped off all the cash and just told her that was his haul from his two weeks.

    Moms looks at the cash and says, “I want some of this, if you can make $40k in two weeks.”

    She kept pestering the recruiter so much finally somebody put two and two together. Nailed the kid. The fact he did it for mom was a mitigating factor at sentencing.

    Thing is, mom was young enough to join. What’s this about traditional two family homes, DRJ?

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  305. Low-hanging fruit? Sounds more like ground fall.

    nk (dbc370)

  306. 304. @ 10:33 pm

    That kind of petty crap would turn public opinion sharply against them. People getting rejected from unsupervised parks also does not sit well. So the tide of public opinion was heading very much against the Dems, not the GOP.

    It’s not one or the other. I heard someone say this week, he’s cnservativem and he didn’t approve (of what the reps in Congress were doing) and in fact he’s mad at both of them (Reps and Obama)

    The favorability ratings of BOTH the Dems and the Reps ARE GOING DOWN. The Rep Party lost ten points going from 28 to 18. Obama started out higher. I think these are questions about “the job they are doing”

    The ratings don’t last because people apply the question to current events (except very near an election) and that does not refelect their overall opinion.

    I don’t think there’s approval of the Republian House policy of not voting for a continuiong resolution that contained Obamacare (only Heritage Action for America was for it.)

    And I think there’s strong disapproval of the way Obama is contriving to make the shutdown worse. (among people who understand that’s what he is doing.)

    You know what maybe might be a good idea? No continuing resolution until the Senate passes and the president signs all the “piecemeal” bits of legislation that the House passed, unless they can come up with a good reason to oppose what’s in them.

    Sammy Finkelman (bec8ba)

  307. Can you please, pretty please, stop telling me what you think we tend to see in the military.

    Would it kill you to listen to me tell you what we see in the military? Kids from single mom homes where the mom’s so young, she’d try to sign up once she saw her kid got a good deal.

    I get to have opinions here, too, Steve57. What I said was people from traditional homes OR people starting a career. People from single homes who enter the military are starting careers, aren’t they?

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  308. elissa:

    DRJ My all time favorite definition of “middle age” is: Halfway between your own age and the oldest person you know.

    That’s terrific. What a great line.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  309. Steve57,

    I’m sorry I offended you with my comments. From now on, I’ll skip your comments so it won’t happen again.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  310. You didn’t offend me with your comments, DRJ. It’s just frustrating to listen to people who never were in the military talk about what they think happens in the military without responding.

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  311. I guess I’m not the one to be advising the House GOP on effective messaging.

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  312. This wasn’t exactly my screen saver when I was doing liaison in Japan, but it’s close enough.

    http://padresteve.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/ijn_akagi_world_war_ii_aircraft_carrier_hit_by_douglas_sbd_dauntless_dive_bomber_at_midway-1.jpg

    I enjoyed explaining it to the Japanese.

    I think I’m a little more charming in real life than on the intertubes. That really liberal Captain who got PO’d at me for not going to Clinton’s Nuremburg Rally? He was a guest of honor and gave a speech at my wedding reception later.

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  313. “It’s an accounting device, and is as real as a corppration owing money to a subsidiary.

    The Social Security trust fund is very real – debt held by it counts toward the debt limit, and the Social Security administration redeeming it and then the federal government turning around and selling an equivalent amount of debt to somebody else does not increase the federal debt.”

    Sammy – It is very dissimilar to the corporate scenario you describe. In consolidation, the intercompany debt would be eliminated. If, however the subsidiary demanded repayment and the parent corporation was forced to sell debt to third parties to pay off the intercompany note, consolidated debt would increase.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  314. You guys decided the government was superfluous, you get to eat the pain of that short sighted view.

    @211 Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/12/2013 @ 8:13 pm

    More unsupported assertions. No one here supports your notion that government is “superfluous.” Finding someone in the world who does and then pretending that is the position of conservatives, tea party members, Republicans, or independents is a straw-man argument; then using that straw-man to justify your wishing pain on your fellow citizens, speaks to your decency and integrity (which is not so much). It also speaks quite well for your politics.

    FWIW

    Conservatives are, largely, for individual-rights over the collective (see Declaration of Independence, Constitution, Bill of Rights). It requires a limited federal government that is balanced between tyranny and anarchy. It is predicated on a moral populace that votes accordingly.

    Liberals are, largely, for the collective over individual-rights (see Obamacare, IRS, DOJ arresting journalists). It requires a powerful central government that is slanted toward tyrannic behavior. It is predicated on an entitled populace that votes accordingly.

    The Obama administration consists of assumptions and actions that do not stand as a matter of logic, ethics, or practicable polices. Nevertheless, there are those who insist on promoting those polices that have always inflicted greater suffering and misery on their own people, despite genuine intentions to the contrary. Sometimes, such support extends to scandals and self-evident immoral behavior, although to your credit Tlaloc, you at least tend to ignore that behavior; to your shame, you fail to condemn it.

    Pons Asinorum (8ce71a)

  315. Very well said, Pons. Even the most outspoken critic of the left, or the most outspoken conservative, does not argue that we shouldn’t have a government or any kind of law and order.

    It’s not socialism vs anarchy. These days our elections feel like a debate about how fast we’re heading off this cliff, actually. But by and large conservative commenters just want a little sanity restored.

    Dustin (303dca)

  316. Pat Buchanan is a bit of a sadist. Pro-violence, and cruelty.

    Okay, Sammy. Yet Obama isn’t intrinsically, innately, emotionally, attitudinally an ultra-liberal merely because he hangs out with extremists like Jeremiah Wright, et al? Yea, uh-huh.

    blogs.wsj.com, June 2008: Mobster wisdom tells us never to bring a knife to a gun fight. But what does political wisdom say about bringing a gun to a knife fight? That’s exactly what Barack Obama said he would do to counter Republican attacks “If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” Obama said at a Philadelphia fundraiser Friday night.

    theulstermanreport.com, November 2012: Openly declared as “Obama’s Brain”, and the figure whose second story West Wing office has been described by political insiders as the true Oval Office of the Obama White House, Valerie Jarrett is letting it be known that if Barack Obama secures election victory next week, there may be, quite literally, hell to pay for those who opposed him.

    …Jarrett told them, “After we win this election, it’s our turn. Payback time. Everyone not with us is against us and they better be ready because we don’t forget. The ones who helped us will be rewarded, the ones who opposed us will get what they deserve. There is going to be hell to pay. Congress won’t be a problem for us this time. No election to worry about after this is over and we have two judges ready to go.”

    Mark (58ea35)

  317. More unsupported assertions. No one here supports your notion that government is “superfluous.” Finding someone in the world who does and then pretending that is the position of conservatives, tea party members, Republicans, or independents is a straw-man argument;

    What if I can find thousands of conservatives saying precisely that. n fact you can find several instances in this thread alone. What’s more you can find evidence of it among the leaders of the right such as norquist who openly said his goal was to kill government (drown it in a bathtub, specifically).

    The idea of government being an evil to be destroyed is deeply rooted in conservativism these days.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  318. Thank you Dustin and well said yourself — exactly right.

    It’s not socialism vs anarchy.

    socialism vs capitalism
    security vs freedom
    society vs family
    safety vs risk
    charity of the bureaucracy vs charity of the citizen
    state authority vs individual rights

    Pons Asinorum (8ce71a)

  319. I enjoyed explaining it to the Japanese.

    Speaking of which, I recently watched a video about foreigners from countries like the US, Canada, Italy, Britain and Mexico who’ve relocated to Japan describe their experiences in that society, a place which has been in a recession since the late 1990s (much less, Fukushima). That documentary reminded me of why the phrase of “it’s the economy, stupid!” doesn’t fully apply to my sense of growing unease and unhappiness about America in 2013.

    Simply put, the people in the video explained some of the basic social-cultural customs they witness in the Land of the Rising Sun on a regular basis, and those traits were rather reminiscent to me — in very general terms — of what the US was like back when TV was black-and-white and Lucy was doing her antics with Desi. IOW, a prevailing respect for a work ethic and attention to decorum that, unlike the US of the 21st century, has not grown so overly diminished in this age of “do your own thang” and “if it feels good, do it!” that it’s become almost unrecognizable.

    Mark (58ea35)

  320. What if I can find thousands of conservatives saying precisely that. n fact you can find several instances in this thread alone. What’s more you can find evidence of it among the leaders of the right such as norquist who openly said his goal was to kill government (drown it in a bathtub, specifically).

    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/13/2013 @ 12:18 am

    Then “they” would be wrong Tlaloc, just like you.

    The idea of government being an evil to be destroyed is deeply rooted in conservativism these days.

    That is a falsehood, but feel free to decorate your straw-man any way you wish.

    Dustin said it correctly:

    Even the most outspoken critic of the left, or the most outspoken conservative, does not argue that we shouldn’t have a government or any kind of law and order.

    It’s not socialism vs anarchy. These days our elections feel like a debate about how fast we’re heading off this cliff, actually. But by and large conservative commenters just want a little sanity restored.

    @319 Comment by Dustin (303dca) — 10/13/2013 @ 12:03 am

    Since that bothers you, just ignore it and continue with your straw-man construct — much easier to debate with and is not, perhaps, so intellectually taxing as a mainstream-conservative commenter.

    For the record: As an American conservative, I oppose tyranny and anarchy — equally. Like so many of my fellow conservatives, I absolutely support the Constitution (even took an Oath to that effect), but feel free to ignore that too.

    Pons Asinorum (8ce71a)

  321. 321. What if I can find thousands of conservatives saying precisely that. n fact you can find several instances in this thread alone. What’s more you can find evidence of it among the leaders of the right such as norquist who openly said his goal was to kill government (drown it in a bathtub, specifically).

    The idea of government being an evil to be destroyed is deeply rooted in conservativism these days.

    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/13/2013 @ 12:18 am

    http://www.followingthenerd.com/site/wp-content/uploads/star-trek-facepalm.jpg

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  322. I think we should notify the authorities.

    Flailoc’s off his meds. He could be the next Aaron Alexis or Adam Lanza.

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  323. The idea of government being an evil to be destroyed is deeply rooted in conservativism these days.

    Yeah, got it Napoleon.

    Must. Fight. Evil.

    The nice men in the white coats will be here soon to take care of you.

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  324. You force the unwinnable fight, then blame the generals for not winning it for you.

    Beam me up, Scotty, there is no intelligent life down here.

    Estragon (19fa04)

  325. Define winnable. Obama can and should make concessions on the implementation of Obamacare.

    I don’t think it’s unwinnable to say the GOP should hold out for rescinding the special carve out for the FEHB contribution and applying the ACA to the WH.

    And, like I said, going for the one year extension of the individual mandate a couple of months down the road when it’s clear not enough people can sign up for health insurance on these stupid exchanges.

    You didn’t actually think anyone was serious about being able to defund Obamacare, did you?

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  326. The media has a lock on disinformation.
    As the dems prosper with this partnership, the republicans seem blind to the fact the enemy has infiltrated the base.
    Rebranding, change the name, just do something , because when you say republican, people get sour.

    mg (31009b)

  327. Starbucks coffe sucks. It’s burnt on purpose. Time for conservatives to drink something else. The politics of starbucks are against Americans, Step up and shun the progs.

    mg (31009b)

  328. 328. Estratard thinks the fight is unwinnable!

    Oh let’s all go home to our borscht, potatoes and babushkas.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  329. 321. “idea of government being an evil to be destroyed is deeply rooted in conservativism these days”

    It’s 1773 all over again. Read your ‘Founding Brothers’, sound out the words.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  330. Tlaloc

    you are confused on a basic principle. Govt is paid for by society’s privately generated wealth.

    Redistribution, shuts down the wealth creation that is transferred to the Govt, because the govt cannot generate wealth on its own, it can only confiscate it by providing services to attract agreement to pay for it from the wealth creators – the private sector.

    Entitlements are not a government service, they provide no benefit to the public at large over their costs.

    EPWJ (c3dbb4)

  331. Starbucks coffe sucks. It’s burnt on purpose.

    Starbucks is like so three hours ago. I make my coffee from organically grown, free range civet cat droppings, lovingly raised by celibate Indonesian Buddhist nuns since birth and provided with the exact proper diet of naturally grown, insecticide free, soya and annelids. It’s only available in a small shop on Chicago’s Cabrini Green neighborhood. You wouldn’t know it.

    nk (dbc370)

  332. so what NK is saying is that his coffee tastes like cat sh$t

    EPWJ (c3dbb4)

  333. Keep that dung for yourself,nk.
    I’m drinking home roasted Kenyan.

    mg (31009b)

  334. How did you get a Kenyan? And what did you roast him in?

    Cat s**t or not, Eric, I am still hipsterer than Starbucks drinkers.

    nk (dbc370)

  335. racist

    mg (31009b)

  336. “geriatric lobsterpot bimbo”?

    Icy (d08929)

  337. nk – This particular Kenyan was raised on a small family farm at the base of Mnt. Lenana.
    Bright forward acidity marks this Kenyan. Classic for a Kenyan with intense flavor.
    Enjoy a Kenyan anytime, but especially good as a midday cup.

    mg (31009b)

  338. mg, don’t tease me with coffee before I have had coffee.

    SPQR (768505)

  339. I drank Folgers until almost 50. Norwegians aren’t especially with the times.

    Now I just buy Seattle’s Best at Walmart for $5.88 for 12 oz.

    Let ’em droop.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  340. Comment by Tillman (de3280) — 10/12/2013 @ 4:03 pm
    I know that a lot of people would rather not pay into Social Security, and I’m not against people opting out of it IF (and only if) they refuse any help whatsoever later.
    — Yes, well, that would be the “opting out” part, wouldn’t it.

    Why haven’t Republicans made this more of an issue?
    — Because they are afraid of losing the votes of seniors who are themselves (a great many of them, anyway) afraid of ‘change’.

    I think that historically we’ve seen what it is like without Social Security and it failed miserably
    — There have been times when I have awoken in the middle of the night and can’t fall back asleep because I’m lying there befuddled by the impossible realization that SOMEHOW our little experiment in liberty of a country survived for 160 years without it.

    older people were dirt poor and pitiful.
    — Yes, and they had to move in with family members who, rather than being gouged out of their paychecks to help support everybody, had to bear the financial burden of supporting their own flesh & blood. Horrors! Pitiful horrors!

    I think that most people would opt out of it and end up regretting it later too.
    — Gee, if only there were an alternative method of saving money for ones golden years; something with a catchy name that identified it in people’s minds as being an individual retirement account . . .

    Icy (d08929)

  341. So out of principle you threw a tantrum that hurt a lot of people and damaged the national economy and did nothing to advance your goals, unless of course hurting people and the economy is your goal…?
    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/12/2013 @ 7:41 pm

    — Because, as the last DECADE has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, the more money the federal government spends, the better off the economy is for it.
    Kinda makes one wonder why your side was so opposed to W dumping all of that money into the Iraq war, don’t it?

    Icy (d08929)

  342. 328. Cont. “blame the generals for not winning it for you.”

    Even Lincoln mucked it up choosing Democrate McClellan, engineer, to parade the Army of the Potomac for 18 months and then relieved him with Burnside the Butcher.

    Hooker had some success at Chancellorsville and Gettysburg but Meade was horrid.

    If you don’t think we can do better than Boehner and McConnell its because you’re a coward.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  343. Does anyone remember who the r.n.c. had as the # 1 speaker at the last convention?
    Other than Dirty Harry.

    mg (31009b)

  344. As is sadly typical you get it exactly backwards- government being out of business is precisely why you lost access to the federal lands. If you put Disney out of business don’t b*tch that you can’t go to disneyland…
    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/12/2013 @ 8:16 pm

    — Disney owns & manages its parks. The federal government manages the national park system, but it doesn’t own the parks; it is a trustee on behalf of the American people.

    Icy (d08929)

  345. Icy, did you post General Giap’s R.I.P.?

    nk (dbc370)

  346. Read your fellow posters writing, Steve. They are openly talking about destroying government. Norquist, a leading figure on the right given how his pledge is virtually required for GOP congressmen.
    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/12/2013 @ 8:25 pm

    — WHO is talking about “destroying” government?

    Icy (d08929)

  347. Sorry, nk — I was slacking that day.

    Icy (d08929)

  348. Komodo Dragon coffee… mmmmmmmm.

    Colonel Haiku (45091a)

  349. Does anyone remember who the r.n.c. had as the # 1 speaker at the last convention?
    Other than Dirty Harry.
    Comment by mg (31009b) — 10/13/2013 @ 7:38 am

    — Some fat f*ck that likes to hang out on the washed up boardwalk and win stuffed teddy bears for President Boyfriend.

    Icy (d08929)

  350. What if I can find thousands of conservatives saying precisely that. n fact you can find several instances in this thread alone. What’s more you can find evidence of it among the leaders of the right such as norquist who openly said his goal was to kill government (drown it in a bathtub, specifically).
    The idea of government being an evil to be destroyed is deeply rooted in conservativism these days.
    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/13/2013 @ 12:18 am

    — You’re dwelling on inflammatory (pun intended) rhetoric, when what’s really being said is no different from what Reagan said: “Government is not the solution to our problem; government IS the problem.”

    Icy (d08929)

  351. Great, now everybody will be subjected to the “Kurtz Republicans” meme.

    felipe (6100bc)

  352. As is sadly typical you get it exactly backwards- government being out of business is precisely why you lost access to the federal lands. If you put Disney out of business don’t b*tch that you can’t go to disneyland…
    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc)

    – Disney owns & manages its parks. The federal government manages the national park system, but it doesn’t own the parks; it is a trustee on behalf of the American people. Comment by Icy (d08929)

    If you hadn’t responded to that particular post, I’d have missed it and not been able to go, sheesh, that remark (“why you lost access to…”) is absurdly foolish in terms of just how disingenuous and pro-big-brother graspy it is. If Tlaloc at least were an employee of the government (assuming he isn’t) — or sucking on the government teat in a major way — I could kind of stretch and strain and understand his embrace of the arrogance of the public sector. But that still wouldn’t excuse the idiocy he displays in not understanding the difference between a park owned by private business and a park owned, in effect, by the taxpayer.

    Tlaloc has gotta be a grade-school- or, at most, college-aged kid.

    Mark (58ea35)

  353. La Raza can rally, but you know;

    http://instagram.com/p/fae9o8AuTu/#

    narciso (3fec35)

  354. As is sadly typical you get it exactly backwards- government being out of business is precisely why you lost access to the federal lands.

    This is typical of Tlaloc’s brazen lies.

    The shutdown is supposed to mean the loss of budget authority (although we see Obama criminally spending in defiance of the law). Obama ordered the closing of things that had never required appropriations. He ordered closure of things that had no appropriations but in fact were leased to non-govt entities where that lease or other agreement was not affected by the loss of budget authority.

    And Obama tried to close things the Federal govt did not even own.

    But Tlaloc still lies.

    SPQR (768505)

  355. Wow, SPQR, the greatest generation, indeed.

    felipe (6100bc)

  356. I should have mentioned a study that I read about several years ago that involved research on the behavior of identical twins. The study theorized that among the traits innate to twins — and therefore applicable to humans in general — were political beliefs.

    To the best of my knowledge, twin studies show the exact opposite. Beliefs — political, religious, philosophical, moral, etc — are not among the traits identical twins are more likely to share. Tastes in all sorts of things — food, clothing, art, music, sexual partners, names for children, etc. — are.

    Milhouse (ce9b15)

  357. You wrote a classic, Flailoc. We’re still exploring the mysteries of the stupidity of this.

    217. As is sadly typical you get it exactly backwards- government being out of business is precisely why you lost access to the federal lands. If you put Disney out of business don’t b*tch that you can’t go to disneyland…

    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/12/2013 @ 8:16 pm

    I see extra police running around keeping people out of parks because I put the gub’mint out of bid’ness?

    If I put Disney out of bid’ness, there are now 30,000 acres near Orlando that can never, ever be used again? Because the now out of bid’ness Disney will hire goons to keep me off the property of what used to be a going concern.

    These are not trivial concerns. Flailoc is demonstrating the infantile understanding of the world and how it works that led to the auto bailout.

    Because, bankruptcy. If Chrysler and GM goes bankrupt, everything is f***ing gone!

    Throw your hands in the air and run around like you don’t care.

    That’s what bankruptcy means, right? That’s what Obama thinks it means. Or, rather, told the ignoramuses that’s what it means so he could step in and stop what wasn’t about to happen. Ignoramuses like Flailoc.

    So now if I, the exalted I who puts whole gub’mints out of bid’ness so why are people who trespass in the Grand Canyon going to federal court again, put Disney out of bid’ness this apparently in Flailoc’s child like mind means there are entire sections of land in Florida which will become out of bounds for freaking ever.

    Amazing.

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  358. That’s what bankruptcy means, right? That’s what Obama thinks it means. Or, rather, told the ignoramuses that’s what it means so he could step in and stop what wasn’t about to happen. Ignoramuses like Flailoc.

    Preezy Mean Girl is doing the same thing with the debt ceiling, BTW.

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  359. The fact that Chrysler and GM, still had to go bankrupt after the mugging, I mean bailout still eludes him,

    narciso (3fec35)

  360. narciso, the fact that the insurance company still has to talk to you to get the information they need to sign you up for insurance even after “enrolling” in the eff’d up exchanges will elude him, too.

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  361. So, how exactly is one ‘enrolled’ if that is the case.

    narciso (3fec35)

  362. Ye gods, private vs. public lands, Failalot. BTW… if all governments were run more like well-run businesses, we wouldn’t be having this discussion, as there wouldn’t be a need for it.

    Colonel Haiku (45091a)

  363. UNPRECEDENTED CLOSURES of National Parks and memorials, TaLaLaFailalot. It’s a flailing tantrum emanating from the alleged Commander-in-Chief. Deal with it.

    Colonel Haiku (45091a)

  364. You can shop for insurance on the Obamatubes exchange!

    Except, you can’t. You can share your personal information with the gub’mint on the Obamatubes. Maybe, just maybe, the Obamatubes will then let you look at the limited selection of policies it will allow you to have. Not all of them.

    I read from one researcher who makes it their life’s work to explore things like the Obamatubes that catastrophic health care policies are still available. But you have to be under 30 to be able to buy them. So the people who are in the better financial position to pay the high out of pocket costs can’t buy them.

    You can sign up for insurance on line!

    Except you can’t. You can share your personal information with the gub’mint on the Obamatubes, and then maybe just maybe they’ll let you fill out a form. Which doesn’t have squat to do with buying insurance. So they have to call and ask, WTF dude.

    It’s just as convenient and easy as buying a book on Amazon. If Amazon’s user interface had been designed by Leonid Brezhnev.

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  365. 370. So, how exactly is one ‘enrolled’ if that is the case.

    Comment by narciso (3fec35) — 10/13/2013 @ 10:11 am

    Ask Kathleen Sebelius. If you’re entertained by things like a halibut flopping around on the deck of your boat. You’ll get a show but you won’t get an answer.

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  366. Comment by Steve57 (4bf843) — 10/13/2013 @ 10:22 am

    I read from one researcher who makes it their life’s work to explore things like the Obamatubes that catastrophic health care policies are still available. But you have to be under 30 to be able to buy them. </I.

    I read that about two weeks in the New York Times. The maximum out of pocket expemse, though, is $6,350 a year for an individual and $12,700 for a family.

    So the people who are in the better financial position to pay the high out of pocket costs can’t buy them.

    People of any age have that maximum. The policy cst woud probably be too high for catastrophic that hits at $6,350 for people older. People older can hit the $6,350 level also. There still isa deductible, and co-pays.

    Sammy Finkelman (bec8ba)

  367. Tastes in all sorts of things — food, clothing, art, music, sexual partners, names for children, etc. — are.

    I’d think that biases influencing a person’s politics are no less intrinsic or innate than what affects the things you list. If anything, I’d assume ideological predisposition may be more inbred — meaning hard-wired into a person’s mind, as alluded to in the emotions underlying the saying that at family gatherings, if one wants to keep things friendly, it’s best to avoid talking about religion and politics — than issues that the typical person is more likely to shrug off (at least just a bit) if he or she doesn’t agree with someone else.

    Personally, I can think of one issue (a local regional one) that I’ve long reacted to in a way that runs counter to hard facts and reality, where I admit I’m being idealistic and into a leap-of-faith reaction. So therefore in that case I guess I could be labeled as acting like a liberal. An interesting contrast is that a leftist who manages a major local community blog takes the opposite POV from mine in that one instance and could be described as having a practical-minded, right-leaning frame of mind.

    I often think of that dichotomy when I’m debating with people of the left until I’m blue in the face and feel that a ton of bricks could fall on their head and they still won’t change their political opinions one inch.

    Mark (58ea35)

  368. Comment by Steve57 (4bf843) — 10/13/2013 @ 10:22 am

    I read from one researcher who makes it their life’s work to explore things like the Obamatubes that catastrophic health care policies are still available. But you have to be under 30 to be able to buy them. </I.

    I read that about two weeks in the New York Times. The maximum out of pocket expemse, though, is $6,350 a year for an individual and $12,700 for a family.

    So the people who are in the better financial position to pay the high out of pocket costs can’t buy them.

    Sammy, if you’re going to italicize a bunch of things and then respond to them, could you at least find a way to distinguish between what one person said as opposed to another.

    That middle paragraph? Wasn’t any part of what I said. Yet your usage would lead someone to believe it was.

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  369. Really he named himself after the God of Rain and Fertility, what a swelled head.

    Comment by narciso (3fec35)

    God of Wankery, more like it. And he makes it rain like a 16 year old.

    Colonel Haiku (45091a)

  370. 376.Comment by Steve57 (4bf843) — 10/13/2013 @ 10:22 am

    You can sign up for insurance on line!

    Except you can’t. You can share your personal information with the gub’mint on the Obamatubes, and then maybe just maybe they’ll let you fill out a form.

    You might establish eligibility for a subsidy, you are saying, but this is purely a kind of yellow pages.

    The designers didn’t allow people to browse without registering.

    Sammy Finkelman (bec8ba)

  371. It’s just as convenient and easy as buying a book on Amazon. If Amazon’s user interface had been designed by Leonid Brezhnev.

    No, this is very American. Like many things done by government contractors.

    Here’s a story in today’s New York Times:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/13/us/politics/from-the-start-signs-of-trouble-at-health-portal.html?hp&_r=0

    ….“These are not glitches,” said an insurance executive who has participated in many conference calls on the federal exchange. Like many people interviewed for this article, the executive spoke on the condition of anonymity, saying he did not wish to alienate the federal officials with whom he works. “The extent of the problems is pretty enormous. At the end of our calls, people say, ‘It’s awful, just awful.’ ”

    Interviews with two dozen contractors, current and former government officials, insurance executives and consumer advocates, as well as an examination of confidential administration documents, point to a series of missteps — financial, technical and managerial — that led to the troubles….

    Sammy Finkelman (bec8ba)

  372. You’d think they were designing and building anew airplane for the Navy.

    Henry Chao, the person in chargem didn’t wnat it to be “a third-wrld experience.”

    He wasn’t thinking about Soviet Russia. He was thinking about places like Egypt or Sri Lanka.

    Sammy Finkelman (bec8ba)

  373. Comment by Steve57 (4bf843) — 10/13/2013 @ 10:37 am

    Sammy, if you’re going to italicize a bunch of things and then respond to them, could you at least find a way to distinguish between what one person said as opposed to another.

    I did, but the problem was I typed </I to close the italics. Starting italics again has no effect.

    I make too many blunders like that.

    I read that about two weeks in the New York Times. The maximum out of pocket expense, though, is $6,350 a year for an individual and $12,700 for a family.

    is indeed mine.

    The point is, $6,350 a year is not truly catastrophic.

    Sammy Finkelman (bec8ba)

  374. Good story, although we really have to wean you off of the Old Grey Red Army Camp Follower, Sammy.

    …a series of missteps — financial, technical and managerial — that led to the troubles….

    I’m still amazed that anyone could witness the roll out of the exchanges and hallucinate the actual delivery of health care is going to go any better.

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  375. Tastes in all sorts of things — food, clothing, art, music, sexual partners, names for children, etc. — are.

    I’d think that biases influencing a person’s politics are no less intrinsic or innate than what affects the things you list. If anything, I’d assume ideological predisposition may be more inbred

    Why would you think that? Opnions are anything but innate; they’re things people arrive at consciously, by thinking and processing arguments that they’ve read or heard, and real-world data that they’ve observed. Tastes are subconscious; either you like something or you don’t.

    Milhouse (ce9b15)

  376. The exchanges apparently are more like an online collection of college library catalogs than Amazon.com.

    Except they only wanted to show you books you can actually borrow instead of leaving it all open to the public. And wanted to include the subsidy in the quoted price.

    I woder what exactly is the extra income verrification the Senate gang of 12 wants to add. the system is already supposed to check IRS and Social Security records and a credit report.

    If you disagree about your income, or have any otehr kind of trouble, you then are supposed to call 1-800-F1&$*^(&

    Sammy Finkelman (bec8ba)

  377. Norquist did not say he wanted to drown government in a bathtub, he said he wanted to get it small enough that it could be drowned in a bathtub if necessary. Government is evil, but unfortunately it may be necessary; many serious and rational people think it might not be necessary, but the time for that discussion will be if and when we get it down to a manageable size. In the meantime, however necessary it might be, it’s dangerous to have it too big to put down. The USA’s founders were pretty clear about that.

    Milhouse (ce9b15)

  378. Be careful, Milhouse. If you’re against gub’mint that’s bigger than necessary Flailoc will call you an anarchist.

    Steve57 (4bf843)

  379. @329 Comment by Estragon (19fa04) — 10/13/2013 @ 1:19 am

    Tactics vs strategy, Estragon. It’ll be okay.

    “Soldiers when in desperate straits lose the sense of fear. If there is no place of refuge, they will stand firm. If they are in hostile country, they will show a stubborn front. If there is no help for it, they will fight hard.” — Sun Tzu, Art of War

    Pons Asinorum (8ce71a)

  380. How many old timers remember “Dumber than a sack of Andrews” ? Raise your hands.

    Since it has gone out of usage here, any objection to my creating “Dumber than a sack of Tlaloc” ?

    SPQR (9c5bd8)

  381. Of course, I’m assuming that “Tlaloc” is its own plural, because it sort of sounds like its own plural.

    SPQR (9c5bd8)

  382. teh healthcare “Big Dig”
    incompetence in motion
    shove your Barrycades

    Colonel Haiku (45091a)

  383. I heard a republicans on the Sunday morning interview shows say that the House had now passed 15 (fifteen!) appropriations bills to restire funding.

    (The Senate passed and the president signed only two of them, and the second one – restoring combat death benefits) was probably unnecessary because that was supposed to be covered in the first bill he signed)

    Sammy Finkelman (6f9f42)

  384. Not only did we have the Fisher Foundation recruited to pay some death benefits but somebody else is paying to keep some Head Start classes open.

    Sammy Finkelman (6f9f42)

  385. Briefly, some states offered to staff some parks, the Parks Service said, no you can’t, but you can pay our costs and now some states are paying to open some things.

    New York State has paid ransom to open the Statue of Liberty starting today and the Grand Canyon will also be opened.(They should get their money back later)

    Sammy Finkelman (6f9f42)

  386. I saw parts of the Sunday morning interview shows, and things seem to be pretty much the way I summed it up last night: (comment 209)

    Making minor corrections:

    As I understand the situation, the House Republican leadership wanted to pass a bill extending the debt limit about six weeks (till maybe until November 22) but the House Democrats refused to vote for it unless the continuing resolution was also included.

    In the Senate, twelve Senators, six from each party, led maybe by Susan Collins, was working on a proposal to extend the debt limit to January 31, and a continuing resolution till March 31, while also postponing the medical devices tax, which more than 2/3 of the Senate and majority of the Houses wants to get rid of, and adding some income verification (for subsidies) to the health care exchanges, and getting the budget Conference committee started.

    But Harry Reid and top Senate Democrats rejected it (because they said, they wanted more spending than the continuing resolution would give them, because it continues and amplifies the sequester, because the spending caps drop on January 1)

    And then they headed toward the White House to meet with President Obama and plot their next move. I saw a picture of Obama, Harry Reid, Charles Schumer and I think Dick Durban.

    Senator Corker (R-Tenn) has now said they now want to deviated from current law. (That was the high principle involved in making no changes to Obamacare in the continuing resolution)

    Sammy Finkelman (6f9f42)

  387. Bob Schieffer says a poll now says that 60% of the public would like to replace every member of Congress (if such a thing were on a ballot that would mean)

    Sammy Finkelman (6f9f42)

  388. One commentator said Ted Cruz might become like Sen Borah or Lafayette in the 1930s and 1940s.

    Sammy Finkelman (6f9f42)

  389. Opnions are anything but innate; they’re things people arrive at consciously, by thinking and processing arguments that they’ve read or heard,

    Milhouse, I don’t know how you can say that when you presumably have come across at least a few of my postings dating back a few years, in which I note that most people on the left embrace their ideology not necessarily because it’s influenced by hard facts and plain reality, but because of their belief that left-leaning biases are rooted in the milk of human kindness.

    I’ve long been aware of the meaning of the phrase “the road to hell is paved with good intentions,” and I now far better understand what that saying is based on today than ever before.

    Mark (58ea35)

  390. I’d think that biases influencing a person’s politics are no less intrinsic or innate than what affects the things you list. If anything, I’d assume ideological predisposition may be more inbred

    How can you determine this? Art is so subjective – one enjoys Monet’s gardens and sees beauty and motion; another views the same and sees a muddy mess that annoys the senses…

    With politics, there is a direct impact on one’s life regarding their political principles and beliefs. It’s a tangible impact that can be, in a lot of cases, directly tied to one’s political persuasion.

    Dana (6178d5)

  391. Art is so subjective

    But in most cases what a person feels about art — or “food, clothing, music, names for children” — isn’t going to be seen as necessarily a major, very telling, reflection of his or her humanity, generosity and goodness. Of course, people can become very passionate and overheated when debating just about any topic from A to Z, and fans at sports events have been known to get very irate with one another based on who one is rooting for or against.

    But politics, since it’s wrapped around one’s ideological instincts, seem to trigger far more of that in larger numbers of people than any other category. IOW, most people aren’t going to feel their love of Monet’s gardens says a lot about whether they’re fine human beings or not, compared with their sense that the opinion they have of, for example, Obama says a lot about their level of humanity and concern for their fellow human.

    Mark (58ea35)

  392. @SnakebiteJones

    Grasshoppers warn of dire consequences if ants default on debt run up by grasshoppers

    SPQR (768505)

  393. Hey, Sammy… Bob Schieffer can kiss my ample, conservative ass.

    Colonel Haiku (45091a)

  394. The point is, $6,350 a year is not truly catastrophic.

    at what income level do you think that statement is valid?

    really? (abd49e)

  395. “really?”, it can be difficult to tell with Sammy, but I think his point is that a maximum of $6,000 deductable is not what is classically considered “catastrophic” insurance.

    So your snark is misaimed at best.

    But it is all of a kind as Obamacare destroys healthcare insurance as insurance.

    SPQR (768505)

  396. since he was talking about the yearly expense for an individual here: 10/13/2013 @ 10:52 am i believe the snark is well and truly founded.

    i want to know at what income level an additional yearly expense of over $6K isn’t a catastrophe. it certainly would be at my house.

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  397. Red, are you pretending to be dense?

    SPQR (768505)

  398. if you’re 30 and you invest $6,350 and get the 4% or so annual return you can expect in a fascist food stamp-based economy…

    at age 65 that investment would amount to $25,057.71

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  399. I did, but the problem was I typed </I to close the italics. Starting italics again has no effect.

    I make too many blunders like that.

    I read that about two weeks in the New York Times. The maximum out of pocket expense, though, is $6,350 a year for an individual and $12,700 for a family.

    is indeed mine.

    The point is, $6,350 a year is not truly catastrophic.

    Sammy’s claim is that a $6350/year out of pocket expense is *not* “truly catastrophic”.

    i simply want to know if he believes that applies to everyone, regardless of their personal income, since that appears to be what he wrote, or if he is willing to concede that there are folks that would indeed find such an additional yearly expense to be damaging to their financial well being.

    nothing dense about it.

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  400. It isn’t catastrophic insurance.

    I used to purchase catastrophic medical insurance many years ago from Blue Cross. It paid nothing until $10,000 out of pocket. I liked it.

    SPQR (768505)

  401. “The point is, $6,350 a year is not truly catastrophic.”

    Comment by redc1c4 (abd49e) — 10/13/2013 @ 5:59 pm

    Sammy’s claim is that a $6350/year out of pocket expense is *not* “truly catastrophic”.

    What I meant was that an inurance policy that limited the maximum out of pocket costs (for a year) to $6,350 was not truly a catastrophic policy – and you would still have a high premium. A purely catastrophic policy should start at a higher level.

    I simply want to know if he believes that applies to everyone, regardless of their personal income, since that appears to be what he wrote, or if he is willing to concede that there are folks that would indeed find such an additional yearly expense to be damaging to their financial well being.

    No, it is indeed too high for many people, but I was using the word catastrophic as a standard level of value.

    But actually there is the way to afford it. You convert it into a loan that must be granted..

    $6,350 is less than the value of most student loans, which people have no trouble incurring.

    As for how people could afford it, there actually are way to arrange it, even if they had no anticipated earnings, no house, and no alternative source to borrow against.

    The money could also be taken from future security payments. Since most people would be come entitled to, say, at least $10,000 a year, (and that’s low, you’d hardly find less than $18,000 ) paying it out of that, if all else failed, over a ten year period, would reduce the benefit by 3 or 4%. For a couple it would be more.

    You’d have to cap it, and place a lifetime cap too. In reality best would be for the government (or other recipients) to swallow the lss in the cases where it would never be repaid.

    In addition to whatever annual cap on out of pocket expenses there was, I’d make a lifetime cap too – you could reach, say, three times, and that’s it.

    Alternatively, the loan could be discharged upon proof of hardship.

    The boggest problem is that medical costs have risen so high, there’s almost no place to shift it to. No way to make it go away.

    Sammy Finkelman (bec8ba)

  402. Let me do a few lines again. Again I didn’t get the italics to stop and start correctly, probably because I cut and pasted and moved text around.

    Sammy’s claim is that a $6350/year out of pocket expense is *not* “truly catastrophic”.

    What I meant was that an inurance policy that limited the maximum out of pocket costs (for a year) to $6,350 was not truly a catastrophic policy – you would still have a high premium.

    A purely catastrophic policy should start at a higher level.

    Sammy Finkelman (bec8ba)

  403. Well, this time, I didn’t do the blockquoting quite right, but at least each statement, question and response is set apart.

    Maybe it does look better that way, anyway – continually indented further.

    And it should be “insurance” not “inurance”

    Sammy Finkelman (bec8ba)

  404. so now you want to force me to take out a loan for a service i do not want?

    ya gotta love the moving goalposts around here…

    $6350 is a catastrophic increase in yearly expenses for most people, as the ~$12K for a family. there was nothing in your post about “catastrophic” coverage versus regular health insurance, simply a blanket statement as to how a certain yearly expense would be viewed by you.

    maybe you should spend less time on fancy formatting, and more time on coherent sentence structure?

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  405. Not only did we have the Fisher Foundation recruited to pay some death benefits but somebody else is paying to keep some Head Start classes open.

    Well, that’s money flushed down the drain. It’s been proven that Head Start does no good at all for the children. The only thing it achieves is to provide employment for the teachers.

    Milhouse (82b1e0)


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