I have been working all day and just checked Ted Cruz’s Twitter feed to see how the filibuster went.
Looks like it is still going on.
Came into C-SPAN and saw (and still see) Mike Lee apparently giving Cruz a break. The caption suggests Cruz is still going.
I am going to take a short break to see if I can catch Cruz before I must turn in to get up early and work again.
Go Ted!
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Are those losers in the House going to suggest his heart is not in it now?
Is this getting any coverage?
Patterico (9c670f) — 9/24/2013 @ 9:56 pmWell you missed his recitation of Green Eggs and Ham and he read bedtime bible stories to his girls since he could not be at home with them. I have been trying to find out who and how many senators, reps and media may be in the chamber. Anybody know?
elissa (491145) — 9/24/2013 @ 9:59 pmHe’s back on now. It’s after 1 am in DC. He will be able to stay up longer than I.
Patterico (7a8761) — 9/24/2013 @ 10:04 pmWe are proud wacko birds.
Patterico (7a8761) — 9/24/2013 @ 10:05 pmNow he is citing Duck Dynasty — which my mom called me a couple I days ago to encourage me to TiVo. I did but no time to watch it yet. You guys like that show?
Patterico (9c670f) — 9/24/2013 @ 10:06 pmOuch:
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/24/2013 @ 10:10 pmhttp://twitchy.com/2013/09/25/nightmare-cruz-reads-teamsters-letter-protesting-obamacare-on-senate-floor/
His singing might violate the Geneva Conventions.
Ha.
Patterico (e66565) — 9/24/2013 @ 10:12 pma politician at a podium
profiles in bravery
EPWJ (016f5f) — 9/24/2013 @ 10:15 pmHe’s on C-SPAN2, right now quoting Toby Keith’s song: Courtesy of the Red, White and Blue
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/24/2013 @ 10:15 pmWhy does this upset you, Eric?
elissa (491145) — 9/24/2013 @ 10:16 pmHe is outlasting me. Yawn.
Patterico (9c670f) — 9/24/2013 @ 10:17 pmHis talking is not putting me to sleep; I just got up early to work.
Hobby Lobby!
Patterico (9c670f) — 9/24/2013 @ 10:17 pm“Objectively, factually, 100% false” re: “You can keep it if you like it”
Go Ted!
Angelo (9a2373) — 9/24/2013 @ 10:29 pmDuck Dynasty is ok. Looks to be in northwest Louisiana. The men look like cartoon hillbillies but their families seem pretty normal. They eat at a table with napkins and everything. The house of one looks exactly like the house I stayed at in Mandeville across from New Orleans.
nk (875f57) — 9/24/2013 @ 10:35 pmI figure if EPWJ doesn’t like it, Cruz must be doing something right.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/24/2013 @ 10:37 pmAnd Mike Lee just brought up defeating gun control. Proudly. The Second Amendment is a winning issue. Sorry, Sarah.
nk (875f57) — 9/24/2013 @ 10:46 pmWhen Dede Scozzafava fought tooth and nail for a nominations only to drop out and endorse the democrat candidate, that was brave in the audacious sense. When Lt Gov Dewhurst called Allen police to free his relative/shiplifter from charges, that was brave in a way as well, but not as brave as when he shut down the Texan anti-groping law (which limited the powers and abuses of the TSA).
🙂
Dustin (303dca) — 9/24/2013 @ 10:50 pmDaley
See Ted run, run Ted run, see Ted sign book deal, see Ted run, see Ted get 9pm slot on Fox, See Ted run,
rinse, repeat
EPWJ (016f5f) — 9/24/2013 @ 10:52 pmCruz and Lee have succeeded in building large databases of people who think internet petitions have some point beyond building email lists.
So this is the Grand Plan, eh? Some farsighted leader! Run ads shaming and taunting fellow Republicans and demand they pass a bill in the House, now he filibusters it, expecting a) Harry Reid to change the rules so Cruz can beat him, and b) millions of telegrams to be sent to the Senate like in Mr Smith Goes to Washington, and c) the House to pass departmental appropriations bills which Reid has already refused to consider and which haven’t been subject to hearings.
Maybe he should have asked for a pony, too. He seems like a guy who believes in miracles.
Estragon (19fa04) — 9/24/2013 @ 10:54 pmIn the meantime, Cruz hasn’t attended the weekly Senate Caucus meetings or tried to work with anyone besides Lee, in or out of the Senate. And people are angry everyone doesn’t just go along with him?
Estragon (19fa04) — 9/24/2013 @ 10:55 pmThe men look like cartoon hillbillies but their families seem pretty normal.
Actually, look like ZZTOP they do!
Yoda (ee1de0) — 9/24/2013 @ 10:55 pmEPWJ – You have any progress reports on all those churches they are building in Saudi Arabia and the U.A.E. for us?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/24/2013 @ 11:09 pmMr. Cruz is the man of the day, night, morning.
mg (31009b) — 9/24/2013 @ 11:17 pmWow, look at all the rank fear in the liberals. This is getting good.
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/24/2013 @ 11:20 pmI am not familiar with Cruz’s attendance in McConnell’s meetings, but this Texas voter doesn’t want his Senators waiting for the permission of the establishment GOP to do anything. I don’t really need them coordinating behind closed doors. I want them speaking plainly about what they are doing and why, to the people.
Besides, Cruz is an infamous participant in FreedomWorks meetings. We have too few Senators who are. To say he’s not trying to work with anyone as he stands tall and tries to work with everyone by making a clear case against Obamacare is simply wrong. He’s just not doing it the useless and suppressible way.
Not seeing why you and EPWJ have a problem with this. If he’s going to fail, what did that cost you, anyway?
Dustin (303dca) — 9/24/2013 @ 11:24 pmMr. Cruz not attending the rino’s go along get along caucus should be awarded a purple heart.
mg (31009b) — 9/24/2013 @ 11:27 pmBecause of Reid, we all will bleed.
And with Cruz, this vote we may yet lose.
Yet joined is the battle we need.
Thanks to the Junior Senator, who hath turned the screws.
Ed from SFV (d4e4cd) — 9/24/2013 @ 11:28 pmObama backed down for the neo soviets. He and Reid takes for granted they never have to back down for Mccain.
Imagine if Ted were only the first in line of 45 who wouldn’t let this go. I bet they could get a little more mileage out of the democrats if they were. We wouldn’t get everything we want, but we’d get some of it. Imagine if this is what the GOP were all about at the federal level, instead of lazily democrat lite when anything truly controversial comes up. Imagine I owed my own slurpy machine and won the powerball while stuck in a closet with Vanna White and I knew magic.
Dustin (303dca) — 9/24/2013 @ 11:36 pmIced coffee, anyone?
mg (31009b) — 9/24/2013 @ 11:39 pmI raise my coffee to Mr. Lee
mg (31009b) — 9/24/2013 @ 11:45 pmA toast indeed
Cruz and Lee are shoving the old G.O.P. off the wall.
mg (31009b) — 9/24/2013 @ 11:51 pmHopefully all the kings men and all the kings horses will not be able to put the pieces back together.
If Cruz holds the floor until at least 7 AM, he knocks Obama’s UN speech off the top of the morning shows.
Snuffleupagus is gonna do his damnedest to destroy Cruz.
I need popcorn.
Ed from SFV (d4e4cd) — 9/24/2013 @ 11:55 pmI’ve been looking for a term that best describes what Obamacare really is, and finally I’ve found it:
It is a patronage program.
Straight out of Tammany Hall.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 9/25/2013 @ 2:39 amIt is a snowball effect. Lies nourish republicans. Perpetual motion machine!
tyst (44af3e) — 9/25/2013 @ 3:00 amSo are you mocking Christians who risk death to worship our god or are you saying something else?
Are you really this vile a person?
Wait a minute you just answered that!
Sorry you are soo wound up over a cheap grandstanding by a smary sleazy lying scum politician who needed record democrat turnout in the runoff to defeat Dewhurst
Like Ace said people who support cruise while deriding all others are not really conservatives just a nasty class of people
EPWJ (016f5f) — 9/25/2013 @ 3:41 amcruise on to stardom baby cruising on……
what bravery, what fortitude, what – on never mind
EPWJ (016f5f) — 9/25/2013 @ 4:00 amOld-time filibusters required the Senators to speak; new filibusters didn’t, so a cloture vote was necessary. What Senator Cruz has done is to set the limit of the debate at the limit of his endurance, which means that no cloture vote is necessary. In this way, he has gotten his fellow Republican Senators off the hook: they don’t have to vote for cloture, but just wait until he cannot continue. They can all vote against the continuing resolution, but it still passes, with Obaminablecare in it.
The realistic Dana (3e4784) — 9/25/2013 @ 4:41 am27 & 32, Ed, too bad George Putnam passed on. I would love to hear what he’d say about Cruz and the filibuster. I miss some of those old KIEV shows, and yes, I know it is KRLA now.
I’ve already sent Grassley a note telling him to pitch in and help with the filibuster. I said if he didn’t, I reregister as an Independent.
PCD (96efb0) — 9/25/2013 @ 4:47 amEPWJ is off his rocker again. Thanks for the leftists chiming in to show us how much they fear the message – thank you tissed and estragon.
JD (5c1832) — 9/25/2013 @ 5:00 amEstragon, EPWJ, “tyst” – if this is so meaningless and unimportant to you, why are you compelled to vent your spleens about it?
JD (b2da42) — 9/25/2013 @ 5:14 amSen Ted sounds good, and he looks strong. Did he say that he was going to read a bedtime story to the President before he read the Teamster’s letter? We should remember the names of those who helped Cruz in this endeavor.
felipe (70ff7e) — 9/25/2013 @ 5:42 amBill DeBaun @BillDeBaun
“Ultimate trolling from Sen. Cruz to use Teamsters’ letter to POTUS against ACA. What a smug, supremely self-satisfied character he is”.
Wow, “ultimate trolling”. More like ultimate pwning.
felipe (70ff7e) — 9/25/2013 @ 5:49 amNow he is recounting Ashton Kutcher’s speech about opportunity looking like work. I don’t know if Mr. Kutcher has children, but Ashton sounded like he was making that speech for someone’children when he delived his speech.
felipe (70ff7e) — 9/25/2013 @ 5:57 amHey, JD. Does this qualify as a “felipe-lanche”? Prolly not.
felipe (70ff7e) — 9/25/2013 @ 5:58 am#34.It is a snowball effect. Democrat lies nourish republicans. Perpetual motion machine!
FTFY!
felipe (70ff7e) — 9/25/2013 @ 6:01 amFelipe-lanches are much more preferable. And coherent.
JD (a1193c) — 9/25/2013 @ 6:09 amTed Cruz is speaking truth to power, and his principled stand is winning hearts and minds.
ropelight (be6fe4) — 9/25/2013 @ 6:13 amTED TED TED TED why he’s Lincoln Jefferson and like Jesus all rolled into one, he’s our new savior whoooooohooooo go ted ted ted go – what’s that?
A BOOKDEAL!!! wohoooooo millions? wohooooo – his dad’s getting a TV show wohooooo!
as Obama care marches on unless those spineless wishy washy repukes kep blocking it
damn them why dare they steal the new the won’s power
Truth to power 0hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh my !!!!!!
we prostrate ourselves on the altar of meaningless self promotion….
EPWJ (016f5f) — 9/25/2013 @ 6:43 amObama,cruisey baby separated at birth?
Cruz standing ona document he doesn’t understand while Obama taught the document he never bothered to read…
BUT THAT doesn’t matter all that matters is why it TED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW booooy lookat him talk and talk and talk and talk……zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
America, land of the free and home of the bloviating
A political profiles in courage, take a stand that absolutely has zero support from moderates who determine who runs our country
that’s the ticket ram a shut down down their throats – play into those dems hands
genius, pure,,,, oh wait what’s that – he raised millions for himself – oh never mind
EPWJ (016f5f) — 9/25/2013 @ 6:47 amHobby Lobby is where i got my Martha Stewart circle cutter now I can make circles in seconds out of paper and even certain fabrics and vinyl sheeting (if it’s not super-thick)
this will come in handy if I ever need to make circles
happyfeet (8ce051) — 9/25/2013 @ 7:11 amoh wait that was Michaels
nevermind.
happyfeet (8ce051) — 9/25/2013 @ 7:12 amEPWJ, you are becoming incoherent in your inanity.
Burnside (8fa39f) — 9/25/2013 @ 7:15 amHobby Lobby has good stuff. My wife practically decorated our entire wedding from stuff in that store.
Burnside (8fa39f) — 9/25/2013 @ 7:16 amBurnside
Of course I’m just teasing but let’s temper the good senator with the goal of not electing democrats or letting Obama off the hook.
And same of the totally unearned adulation here is nauseatingly noxious and dangerously naiveté.
Rubio, Flake and to a certain extent Paul, Johnson and Walker have turned out to not be the bastions of conservatism that many Truecons are expecting.
But Ted’s wealth has just skyrocketed and will, from a guy with just 40 weeks of experience to be the end all of America is abit to swallow since he has a very checkered past
course IEPWJ (c3dbb4) — 9/25/2013 @ 7:22 am54. Someone’s without a dribble cup is helping PeeWee now. “Of course just teasing” and “Rubio, Flake and..have turned out..” interleaved with equine excrement.
Clearly he is only capable of the haphazardly tossed excrement.
Disintermediated brainstem at play.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/25/2013 @ 7:35 amIt is a snowball effect. Lies nourish republicans. Perpetual motion machine!
Comment by tyst (44af3e) — 9/25/2013 @ 3:00 am
— tye, is that you? Aww, we missums!
Icy (a2f7ca) — 9/25/2013 @ 7:46 amMaybe he should have asked for a pony, too. He seems like a guy who believes in miracles.
— Estragon, how many Jews are there in Iran?
Icy (a2f7ca) — 9/25/2013 @ 7:48 amDewhurst, Dewhurst, he’s my man!
Icy (a2f7ca) — 9/25/2013 @ 7:50 amIf he can’t do it, then … uh, um … oh yeah — if he can’t do it, then slam the man that can!
The regular trolls are tripping over the feet of the concern trolls.
SPQR (768505) — 9/25/2013 @ 7:54 amThis should concentrate a few of what passes for minds in the Senate:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-09-25/lew-warns-debt-ceiling-day-oct-17
Evidently this hasn’t:
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/09/24/Obamacare-and-the-Chattering-Class-Its-Deja-Vu-All-Over-Again
You see, everyone knows the Dhimmis have a Death Wish for Amerikkka, they are absolved.
The GOP are supposed to be, sorta, kinda adults.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/25/2013 @ 7:57 amI just don’t get the downside to what Cruz is doing. The law is already on the books. Cruz didn’t cost the GOP anything.
And there is such obvious upside. The democrats will have to reassociate with an unpopular law just as it begins to directly ruin the finances of millions. This is something they worked very hard and waited years to avoid, and Cruz has undone those efforts. Also, he is clearly explaining the folly of this law. That’s something the GOP should have been doing every day. Cruz wasn’t in power when Obamacare passed. I suspect if he had been we wouldn’t be burdened by this law. So yes, Cruz is showing us he’s a fighter and a communicator, which does increase his profile in a country starved for an intelligence and courageous conservative. That’s what really upsets the concern trolls. They know Cruz is becoming a force.
Dustin (303dca) — 9/25/2013 @ 8:00 am61. Good question. Plainly, everyone’s habitual behavior persists because of some payback they receive for persisting.
As this ‘choosing of defeat as a means to being allowed to continue in defeat’ seems irrational we are left with psychology, beyond economics, to explain the behavior.
I tend to loathe psychological explanations but perhaps McConnell and the Senate core leadership, are accustomed to being invisible and hate the light?
As long as the Lamestream doesn’t notice their existence all is well?
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/25/2013 @ 8:15 amDustin, I am surprised at you. You keep forgetting the power of the modern media, and how it controls the Narrative. Voters will be watching the Daily Show, not reading books and thinking deeply.
Republicans will be blamed. It just helps the Statists.
And the problems with Obamacare? The focus will be on the conservatives you favor.
I just hope I’m wrong. Time will tell.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 9/25/2013 @ 8:31 amI agree, Simon. When Obamacare continues to grow into a nightmare, the last guy the MSM will want to blame will be Obama. They will either not cover the issue (the MSM’s main bias) or they will cover how so and so conservative refuses to fix the problem with x,y,z liberal reforms (like single payer, I suppose). They will say we can’t debate Obamacare anymore because that’s looking backwards, not forwards. It’s not ‘progressive’ to think about how we got in the mess we’re in.
Dustin (303dca) — 9/25/2013 @ 8:36 amPerhaps what Cruz is doing is not unpopular per se, but perhaps the majority of mainstream R’s simply don’t understand and grasp what he is doing. They are so use to stamping their feet and making empty threats and being political poseurs, that when one of their own actually is determined to not just make a stand and dig in but also cleverly makes a broader long-term move to benefit the party and the public, it’s essentially uncharted territory and lost on them. How sad.
Re: Duck Dynasty. I love the show. It’s an entertaining family of self-made millionaires who work hard at their business and to pass down to their children a solid work ethic, pride in their country and family, and loving one another no matter the situation.
If one watches closely, one also sees that behind the ZZ Top appearances are sharp and deep people who are not only just being themselves but also tapping into a public who is sick and tired of Real Housewives, laugh tracks, and brain-dead dramas. Smart all the way around.
Dana (6178d5) — 9/25/2013 @ 8:38 amhttp://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/09/ted-cruz-vows-to-speak-against-obamacare-until-i-am-no-longer-able-to-stand/
One of his lines (from ABC)
That includes, of course, what Cruz himself is doing.
Sammy Finkelman (44bd3a) — 9/25/2013 @ 8:43 am63. No one disputes the political alignment and persuasive power of the Media. But we do note that this is a nation of 300 Million and the reach of that media is in collapse.
A more important and growing source of propaganda is the educational system. But even there the seeds of imminent collapse are sown.
Administrations continue to hire for their own new positions in an effort to corral new revenue streams to keep up with costs that are rising at a greater than exponential rate, effectively twice the rate of medical costs and have been since the Federal government entered the business of funding student loans.
If the GOP were actually comprised of the informed, the end of our economic system and governments contract with its citizens would be as obvious as noses on their faces.
The Lamestream bears some responsibility, our government far, far more.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/25/2013 @ 8:50 amI haven’t been able to watch either Cruz or the news this morning. But apparently according to National Journal John McCain is itching to say something.
elissa (491145) — 9/25/2013 @ 8:56 amSimon – I don’t understand. How did what Cruz did later the playing field, and play into their hands. Do you think, absent that, that the media coverage would have been any different?
JD (280cd2) — 9/25/2013 @ 8:59 amElissa – unless McCain wants to say “I retire”, I don’t think it is possible for me to care less about what he has to say. 😉
JD (280cd2) — 9/25/2013 @ 9:02 am66. Now you’re just being perverse Sam. Mendacity isn’t becoming and savored only by an unabashed moby.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/25/2013 @ 9:05 amFighting against all odds is the opposite of a rigged result (ostensibly in one’s favor). Cruz has every intention of seeing Obamacare repealed. He is digging in for a long, hard fight. It’s such a shame the GOP didn’t have anyone like Cruz in the Senate in 2009.
It’s this spirit of ‘I have principles I will stand on and defend’ is why there’s so much enthusiasm for Sarah Palin. We are so sick of a backroom of republicans coordinating to do nothing but defend themselves by saying everything was rigged anyway. We can’t win if we don’t play.
Dustin (303dca) — 9/25/2013 @ 9:10 amOh, no, JD! I admire Cruz. I believe in what he is doing. We need lots and lots of people just like him, who have the courage of their convictions. I mean that.
The problem is the frickin’ media. Well, and the fact the most voters think with the depth of bumper stickers.
I mean, look at this:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2013/09/voters-like-republicans-so-why-dont-they-elect-them.php
But! Look at how the media portrays politics. Every night. Drip, drip, drip. Into classrooms. Into living rooms. Look at sitcoms and public lectures and PBS. I don’t know what to do, to be honest. It will require hard long term grassroots work. And hopefully more right of center (or, better, fair) media outlets.
What worries me most: the media is supposed to be a watchdog, not a lapdog. This media is a freaking cheerleader, complete with pom-poms and a repetitive chant.
It’s all “heart versus head.” And I have been hearing about the “death” of the MSM for decades now. It’s not happening.
I have many friends on both sides of the political divide. What concerns me is this. I know LOTS of folks on the Right who are highly critical of politicians on the Right, for various reasons.
My friends on the Left are complete and utter lockstep in favor of whoever carried a big “D” card. Two words for you: Joe Biden. OMG.
Which is why the Left wins and wins. And why, given how conservatives and Republicans behave, Hillary! will most likely win the next two administrations. God help us regarding the SCOTUS.
I keep getting misunderstood on this point. I’m not saying that we need to support whomever Team R puts out there. But the uncomfortable fact, over and over again, is that a “truly” conservative politician CANNOT WIN. Not with the narrative that is fully accepted by the majority of the electorate. Sorry to be blunt.
Reagan wasn’t particularly conservative, though he was and is portrayed that way. Heck, he signed California’s abortion law while Governor.
Narrative, narrative, narrative.
So the Cheerleader Media hybridized with the Lockstep Left is a tough barrier to overcome.
This administration is making so darned many rookie mistakes that I have a little hope of folks waking up. But not much.
Which is why all the attacking of Republicans bores me. It just feeds narrative. Start finding who you want to run in 2014 and 2016, and start supporting them. Start supporting media outlets that aren’t puppets of this silly administration. When Obamacare starts falling apart, don’t let people blame “Republican intransigence.” Blame the people who wrote the crap sandwich.
But most importantly: give a better solution.
There are lots of reasons I’m not comfortable posting much these days, personal and otherwise. But part of it is that I find myself making speeches.
(exit stage)
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 9/25/2013 @ 9:16 am. But the uncomfortable fact, over and over again, is that a “truly” conservative politician CANNOT WIN
We have proven that not-conservatives cannot win.
JD (5c1832) — 9/25/2013 @ 9:21 amBut most importantly: give a better solution.
I don’t agree with this. This is campaign thinking – I have a better plan. Sometimes no plan is better, less government, not more government intervention causing more problems. Being a little less statist than a leftist still ratchets us to the left.
JD (5c1832) — 9/25/2013 @ 9:23 amThis is so obvious to me. I wish I could convey it like that. I would believe in the GOP if it learned this lesson. I don’t bash GOP’s worst leaders just because I am a crank. I want the democrats to face an effective opposition! When we dillute our views by nominating the less conservative option, because we are afraid of the country rejecting conservatism, we’re saying we don’t believe in the truth of our views.
Socrates (the real one, not the insane guy on twitter) said that going the right thing and knowing the right thing are the same. All you need to make a more moral society is more and higher knowledge. there is no realm where this is more true than with politics. If the GOP believed in conservatism and reliably found leaders who stand up for it instead of acting ashamed of it, Obama wouldn’t even be president right now.
Dustin (303dca) — 9/25/2013 @ 9:35 amAmen, JD.
This is not a problem for the federal government to solve. Let your state solve it. Anyone who likes Obamacare is free to move to Massachusetts. And pay the requisite taxes.
Dustin (303dca) — 9/25/2013 @ 9:36 am73. And for my part, I don’t believe I misunderestimate your point.
What I return to, however, is people do believe their lying eyes when an issue matters to them and theirs.
Reprising DeLay, following ‘the Shutdown’, Clinton signed on to Welfare Reform after vetoing twice, 100-odd programs were shuttered resulting in a gain of 3 in the Senate and a loss of but 4 in the House for the GOP.
In the Walker elections, knowing going in that he intended to repeal the public union right to arbitrate on wages and benefits the turnouts were 77 and 71%. Not only did the recall result in a lower turnout his margin included significant support from voters who opposed him at the first.
Standing for something conveys more than cachet, it conveys respect and sways the cynically apolitical.
Conversely, in Ohio, Sean Trende reported, that much of Romany’s loss versus McCain in turnout was with the lower class conservatives in coal country, demoralized with Obama/EPA shutdown of their livelihood the GOP offered no hope for their plight.
Your bailiwick is overly abused.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/25/2013 @ 9:38 amIn the long term, this will have worked out well for Cruz.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/09/25/double-down-obamacare-will-increase-avg-individual-market-insurance-premiums-by-99-for-men-62-for-women/?partner=yahootix
Avik Roy of the Manhatten Institute pretty much covers all the bases. For instance, how the Obama administration is lying to Americans about their rates going down.
You can lie to people about what’s going on in Libya or Syria or Mexico, or even in the recesses of the IRS and NSA. But you can’t lie to people about their own household expenses. Then he covers the fabled subsidies.
You also need to click on the link to go to another article in which he explains how the insurance markets in New York and New Jersey are not like other state insurance markets. In fact, Mario Cuomo essentially destroyed the individual insurance market back in the 90s by implementing very Obamacare type policies. Yes, rates in New York will go down. But they’ll still be more expensive than in other states and those reductions won’t translate into savings anywhere else.
Steve57 (b0c53e) — 9/25/2013 @ 9:45 amSteve, one thing that few have cited is how this is a wealth transfer to women. Young healthy men do not need a comprehensive health plan. They need health insurance (in the classical sense, where they have a very low premium and a very high deductible, protecting them from unforeseen catastrophe).
In the last ten years I’ve been to a doctor three times, each for minor things, all combined for $400 (that’s what the insurance paid, not me). Obamacare drags us into the scheme in order to support the expenses of many other people, which is a huge wealth transfer.
Once again, the young get the short end of the stick, and the boomers get the most benefit.
Dustin (303dca) — 9/25/2013 @ 9:56 amFollowing up on his comments calling Cruz’s speech a “big waste of time,” Reid said that “any day that government is hurt is a good day” for the Tea Party. Reid called it “the new anarchy.”
Ugh.
Dana (6178d5) — 9/25/2013 @ 10:06 amDana, if Cruz speaking from the Senate about proposed legislative changes is anarchy, my dictionary has failed me. 🙂
Reid has been spoiled for years with the GOP led by folks who are difficult to distinguish from democrats in many ways. I’m not sure he knows how to handle a real conservative. Imagine if we had another twenty of these guys. It is realistic that we could get that. We just have to establish a standard for a GOP Senator.
Dustin (303dca) — 9/25/2013 @ 10:11 amCruz is being interviewed by Rush right now.
Dana (6178d5) — 9/25/2013 @ 10:12 amI loved Rush’s comment that Cruz was fighting for the soul of this political party. My long winded comments never come close to the succinct way many explain what needs to happen for the GOP to matter again.
Dustin (303dca) — 9/25/2013 @ 10:14 amI guess I don’t know how to get beyond campaign thinking. There are elections every two years, four years, or six years depending on the office. And primaries for nearly all of them. JD, I really do understand where you are coming from in terms of even good, small plans or solutions maintaining elements of statism and needing a level of bureaucracy –statism which nearly all of us on the right hate with a searing passion. But what I do not understand is what you are proposing for conservative candidates to say in their fundraising and campaign ads and speeches against the Democrats or other Republicans of the moderate persuasion who run.
I just don’t think that “we will save the country and rid you of these vermin corrupt pols and appointees, and we’re going to cut a lot of stuff but you have to just trust us because we have no plan to share with you”, is a realistic message to voters. Obviously you are a very smart man and what I’ve written here is a silly simplistic paraphrase which you would never say. But what is the message that you think will get more Conservatives elected across the land? What would you say to get more Conservatives put in positions of actual power that is different and new from all the Conservs who have run and then crashed and burned in contests in the past twenty years? What narrative do you think will garner a different result? What message do you think the media can/will not bastardize and misrepresent?
These are the basic practical things that Simon is asking all of us to look at and consider realistically, and why I appreciate and look forward to his “speeches”.
elissa (491145) — 9/25/2013 @ 10:18 amCruz has it right when he says some have just been in office too long and forget they represent the people. John McCain, your phone is ringing…He clearly explains that Congress forgets it is about The People.
I also appreciate how he understands and makes clear it’s not personal, nor about personalities but that there is a larger more long term picture involved. Unfortunately, the left (and a number of R’s) are all about personal and personalities and do not have the ability to grasp a bigger picture impact, thus personal attacks and smears are the typical response.
Dana (6178d5) — 9/25/2013 @ 10:20 amgg–your point about Walker focusing on and offering a very specific solution to a very specific problem for Wisconsin voters to consider–and winning on it–is a good one. I think many voters do want to hear specific solutions and better solutions.
elissa (491145) — 9/25/2013 @ 10:28 amCruz seems to have gotten inside the D’s response cycle. It will be interesting to see what sort of foolishness this creates. An opening salvo from the democrat reply that I received from Patty Murray (D-Wa) this morning includes this argument:
I’d also like to remind all of you that the next phase of ACA implementation starts on October 1, when enrollment in new state-based health insurance marketplaces will begin. Because of these marketplaces, across the country 25 million currently uninsured Americans are poised to get health insurance coverage. In Washington state, that means over 800,000 uninsured Washingtonians, or 15% of the state’s population, will be eligible for coverage in the marketplace! I look forward to working with health care providers, community leaders, and state health officials on the challenges and opportunities they will face as the marketplace is set up.
This raises so many questions. How many were NOT elligible before Obamacare? What happened to the 37 million without coverage before Obamacare, which was said to have grown to around 50 million last year? The Oct. 1st deadline will be reached in 5 days, shouldn’t the marketplace have been set up already? What happens when only 50,000 of Washington State’s potential enrollees show up due to the high cost of the insurance? And why are we trashing our old health care system if the benefit from the new one will be realized by just 15% of the population even if things work out perfectly?
Defense has been the key to successful, high level football. But the no-huddle offense has changed the game dramatically. In like fashion, Cruz and his colleagues are shaking up the old order with their offensive tactics. The fools like McCain, and hopefully McCain’s pals in the Democrat majority of the Senate, simply can’t handle the challenge. Or so I hope.
bobathome (c0c2b5) — 9/25/2013 @ 10:29 amelissa,
In keeping in with the silly and simplistic phrasing, if you are trying to reach a large group of people – most who are low info voters and don’t really give a lot of time or thought to analyzing issues and seeking practical and effective solutions that benefit them as individuals as well as the country, what do you do as a conservative? To embrace conservatism one has to do their homework in order to see the contrast between individual responsibility and sufficiency vs the greater good and government dependence. Why would anyone who is reaping benefits and rewards for their dependence on government opt to push away from that? These are the short-term thinkers. Conservatives are the long-term thinkers. It’s a tough hurdle for the conservatives running to get their potential voters over.
Dana (6178d5) — 9/25/2013 @ 10:30 amPersonal experience: as of today, I can’t get the same level of health care coverage as last year even at double the price. Across the board, co-pays are up, treatments are restricted, and access is down. This isn’t theory or projection, these are the cold hard facts which will determine the quality of my health care beginning in January.
I liked my previous health insurance, it was affordable, widely accepted, and provided an excellent range of high quality care, and I liked my doctors, they were caring competent conscientious professionals, readily available, and conveniently located.
ObamaCare has changed all that. Even for twice the money I can’t get health care insurance anywhere near as good as last year’s coverage.
ropelight (be6fe4) — 9/25/2013 @ 10:33 amropelight, the administration/Democrat plan is to lie to you and tell you things like, “your premiums are less than expected.”
Not less than expected by you. Certainly not less then they were without Obamacare. Just less then the worst predictions of how much they would go up.
They’ll also tell you how much better your plan is than your old one. You, ropelight, are now covered for abortifacient drugs! So the doctor who you were told you could keep if you liked him won’t take you with your Obamacare plan, and neither will a lot of other doctors. But the plan that they won’t accept covers more services that they won’t provide you.
How do you think their propaganda campaign will go over?
Steve57 (b0c53e) — 9/25/2013 @ 10:54 am87. And Cruz’s demonstration of how to seize a need that crosses political boundaries right in the bosom of the middle class should be instructive to the GOP, party of the landed gentry since the Civil War.
The target group, big donors spread the wealth at campaign time and dump a pantload when the contest appears decided.
Why be so all-fired worried about money, win elections.
The GOP scrambled to compete with Dog’s $Billion$ and blew $200 Million on consultants. They tried to make up with a paucity of foot soldiers with some misbegotten web-based efforts.
They lost because they couldn’t find a foothold with their base let alone targeted interest groups like Hispanics.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/25/2013 @ 10:58 amComment by Steve57 (b0c53e) — 9/25/2013 @ 10:54 am
How do you think their propaganda campaign will go over?
Like a lead balloon. Obama was back again yesterday (at a forum hosted by Bill Clinton – he had to miss the Iranian President;s speech to see it, or it got scheduled at that time so he’d have an excuse – he did want a symbolic hello or handshake, but Iran didn’t)
He said it would cost less than a cell phone bill
for some 27 year old woman.
The catch is she has to correctly estimate her income, live in the right city or state, and be willing to accept a strong limitation on doctors and hospitals – maybe pay out of pocket for treatment she really needs or wants.
Sammy Finkelman (44bd3a) — 9/25/2013 @ 11:01 amComment by ropelight (be6fe4) — 9/25/2013 @ 10:33 am
Even for twice the money I can’t get health care insurance anywhere near as good as last year’s coverage.
Why should that be? What happened?? It didn’t become illegal to offer it, did it?
Sammy Finkelman (44bd3a) — 9/25/2013 @ 11:04 amWhat message do you think the media can/will not bastardize and misrepresent?
Elissa – I would suggest that absent actually running on principles, we have no way of knowing how the electorate, or the MFM, might react. We do see how they react to Cruz, which frankly, you can take his name off of it, and they would create a remarkably similar narrative. The simple fact, to me is, look how the vilify even the weak-tea Republicans like McCain and Romney. What good does playing nice, playing by their rules, trying to put up some “moderate” (moderate by their standards) when the end result is the same demagoguery?
JD (5c1832) — 9/25/2013 @ 11:07 am“It didn’t become illegal to offer it, did it?”
Sammy – It became illegal to offer all sorts of plans that people actually wanted to buy.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/25/2013 @ 11:11 amWell, not directly, but can an insurance company charge the same price for insurance coverage that has removed the bar on covering preexisting conditions? It doesn’t seem possible. While it’s not illegal to keep the price the same, I don’t see how they could. It would be awesome if you could choose between preexisting and non, but of course the whole point here is subsidizing the former.
Dustin (303dca) — 9/25/2013 @ 11:11 amRush just played a portion of John McCain’s response to Cruz. I wish I could say it was incredible. Unfortunately it was entirely unremarkable for the disgraceful John McCain.
Essentially McCain said Obama won, so that means the voters rejected “repeal and replace” Obamacare.
No thought to his constituents who elected him on the basis he’d try to repeal and replace Obamacare. But then that’s par for the course for the shameless McCain, who campaigned on “build the dang fence” in Arizona, then promptly went to DC and proclaimed building the fence a stupid idea.
He also launched into a bunch of non sequiturs. Proving that the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree; Megan McCain may very well have written her dad’s speech.
If you don’t know what Megan McCain’s writing is like, here’s a review of her book Dirty, Sexy Politics.
http://www.redstate.com/leon_h_wolf/2011/12/08/meghan-mccains-dirty-sexy-politics-a-review/
I highlighted the part in which Mr. Wolf describes the traits Megan inherited from dad.
Steve57 (b0c53e) — 9/25/2013 @ 11:14 amI agree completely with what you are saying, Dana. And this is why I am hoping that people will consider these questions and obstacles more realistically when it comes to candidates past and future. Sometimes I shake my head at some of the wishful thinking I see posted here. We Conservatives really do see the world differently and in many ways we live our lives differently, generation upon generation, than many on the left and some independents. A whole mindset change or turnaround in philosophy by the greater dependent populace is unlikely no matter how silver tongued the Conservative messenger is. But inroads in the purple states and governorships offer some hope even as baby steps. Too bad there are people on the right who would apparently rather see a full throated Democrat in office than a “RINO” senator in Blue Illinois or a “traitor” governor in blue New Jersey.
I am very impressed with Ted Cruz. I hope that as problems like John McCain and Lindsey Graham fade from the ranks other quality thinkers like Cruz will take their place. Perhaps the tragic downward spiral of the nation’s fortunes and spirit will speed things along. But this will not happen overnight.
elissa (491145) — 9/25/2013 @ 11:15 amyes, Sammy, it is not legal to sell noncompliant health insurance to other than grandfathered customers.
SPQR (1ec81f) — 9/25/2013 @ 11:19 amJD, I would have happily contributed to and voted for Mitch Daniels who I thought was smart, principled and had a chance to do well and get some crossover votes despite his lowkey personality and family problem. He chose not to run. By the time the primary was held in Illinois our choices were: Romney, NorLuap, Santorum, and Gingrich. Roemer and Perry had already withdrawn and no one else even bothered to run. By almost 47% of the vote Romney won the primary.
elissa (491145) — 9/25/2013 @ 11:30 amI am shocked, just shocked I tell you that my Congress Loon Jan Schakowsky does not appear happy to hear the views of a concerned constituent such as myself on important matters of national concern like these. At times I think she has forgotten she works for me and if she published her weekly schedule I would gladly show up somewhere to remind her.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/25/2013 @ 11:32 amIt’s a huge shame that Daniels didn’t run. Of course I can hardly blame him for sparing his family hell, and I tend to question the sanity of anyone who does put their family though that.
I also understand someone rejecting Newt. I never had an issue with Santorum, but I rejected him as well. Romney winning a solid plurality (but not majority) of the GOP votes is, as Daley has pointed out (in his own words, though), an indictment against the other candidates. That’s a tough pill to swallow, but Mitch Daniels only makes it more obvious that this is fair.
I hope that in 2016 we see candidates like Daniels, Walker, and Cruz. My hope for executive experience is giving way to a new flexibility to find a way to support conservatives with a spine.
Dustin (303dca) — 9/25/2013 @ 11:40 amOoooooo, burn.
SPQR (1ec81f) — 9/25/2013 @ 11:51 amhttp://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2013/09/voters-like-republicans-so-why-dont-they-elect-them.php
I think we’ve seen why they don’t elect them during this latest battle over Obamacare. Cruz spends nearly 24 hours detailing all the disastrous consequences and false promises of Obamacare. Then John McCain stands up and tries to rebuke him, in part by saying “Obama won, so shut up.”
Not in those words, but that was his message.
Is it any wonder that part of the GOP base sat home instead of voting for Romney? The GOP’s messaging is no better than McCain’s. It’s equally flaccid and defeatist.
Priebus made a splash when he threatened not to participate in any debates with a CNN moderator if they produced their Hillary! hagiography.
Hello! Why is the GOP participating in these debates at all? They’re hosted by Democratic operatives like Stephanopoulos, who in the last debate carried his party’s “war on women” campaign into his debate by ambushing the GOP candidates with a question out of left field about limiting women’s access to contraceptives.
Don’t even mention Candy Crowley siding with Obama against Romney. After doing the damage, she later admitted she was wrong. The television equivalent of a front page article above the fold with a headline screaming that McCain is having an affair. Then putting a correction at the bottom of page 18 under the crossword puzzle.
I recently read how a former Bush PR flack bragged about their media strategy. She said their strategy was to do more outreach to magazine writers and editors. I forget the flack’s name, but I do recall the name of one of those editors and reporters she said were vital to getting the Bush administration’s message out.
Jay Carney, Obama’s current spokesman, when he was deputy Washington bureau chief and then bureau chief at Time.
Really, GOP masterminds? Really? You guys thought that a hyper-partisan liberal like Jay Carney was going to help you get the Bush administration’s message get out?
Even now it these clueless idiots think they did a good job getting Bush favorable press, apparently. Because I would hide in shame if I were in charge of the Bush media strategy, not give interviews about it. But then, if I had been in charge of the Bush media strategy, I wouldn’t have been so delusional as to have had that strategy.
Messaging is part of the problem, but then there’s the message. People like McCain get inside the beltway and they start representing the media, not their constituents, because they crave the media’s approval. So they start denouncing people like Cruz and working with Schumer.
The media tells them they want a GOP that will reach across the aisle and work with the Democrats. That’s what the GOP old guard gives them. Has a Democrat ever rebuked another Democrat or one of the socialist independents for fighting too hard against a GOP President who won reelection? No.
I’m a little surprised at the Rasmussen poll discussed at Powerline. Those polled said they prefer Republicans by name in 10 of 15 categories. Other polls I’ve seen show they prefer the conservative position by a wide margin over liberal positions on a host of issues. Then the same people reject it when polled if they’re told it’s the Republican position.
Frankly, the GOP’s nomination process is dysfunctional. Their messaging is dysfunctional. And their message is dysfunctional, since it’s essentially, “We only pretend to be conservative during elections to fool the whacko birds.”
Had whites voted in the same numbers for Romney in 2012 as did for McCain in 2008, Romney would have won. But after looking at McCain’s disgraceful performance since 2008, they looked at Romney and said no thanks.
This isn’t to relitigate the 2012 campaign. This is a problem the GOP had better fix. Unfortunately the same masterminds who thought Jay Carney would help get Bush’s message out and that Bill Clinton’s former campaign manager and chief of staff would be an excellent and impartial debate moderator are still in charge of the party.
So we have Steve Schmidt, McCain’s former campaign manager, running around telling the media he’s sorry for the GOP “freak show” he helped launch with Sarah Palin. And the rest of the GOP thinking the key to winning is an immigration amnesty.
I can hardly wait for John McCain, the party’s standard bearer in 2008, to call me a racist again like he did in 2007.
That’ll motivate the base, don’t you think?
Steve57 (b0c53e) — 9/25/2013 @ 12:11 pmI love Duck Dynasty. Listen to your Mom.
As for Cruz’s coverage, I specifically watched the 3 MSM morning shows (that I never watch) to see how they covered this. During the 7 AM CST segment, ABC’s George Stephanopoulos focused on and replayed Cruz reading Green Eggs and Ham to his girls. NBC’s Matt Lauer and Chuck Todd showed a visual of Cruz in the Senate with no audio, and talked about how worthless and useless it was. But CBS covered it as a news event, with 4-5 excerpts covering the main substantive points Cruz was making.
It was a fascinating comparison to me: ABC covered it as entertainment. NBC covered as partisan politics. And CBS reported it.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/25/2013 @ 12:28 pmI also heard a few minutes of Cruz on Rush. Apparently Cruz read an essay by Rush’s father. Cruz also said it was depressing to go to Senate luncheons because no one ever talked about how to win, only about how to put on a show for the people back home. Cruz jokingly said it was enough to make you need therapy for a month.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/25/2013 @ 12:30 pmI should have said the Senate luncheons he was referring to are for GOP members only.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/25/2013 @ 12:30 pmdaleyrocks,
You’re in Schakowsky’s district ?
Yikes !
I have friends who live in Skokie, and they often give me the report on her.
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 9/25/2013 @ 12:43 pmIncidentally, one of Breitbart.com’s editors, Joel Pollak, actually ran against her a few years ago.
elissa and Dana,
I disagree that voters need a nuanced conservative or they won’t respond. Nuanced messages are what the GOP has been giving to voters in the last 2 Presidential elections, as the GOP has tried to walk a tightrope between what moderate Democrat and Independent voters will vote for and what conservative Republicans will tolerate.
Our moderate nominees try so hard to appeal to everyone that they end up appealing to very few, and ultimately that makes them appear hypocritical and dishonest. I’m not saying they are hypocritical and dishonest but that’s the way it looks, and no one wants to vote for Nixon-lite.
I think what JD is saying is we need a nominee willing to make the case for conservative values, and the chief conservative value is limited government. What’s been missing is a willingness or ability to explain why limited government works better — why it opens the door to entrepreneurs, personal investment, and individual effort that create opportunities for everyone.
Cruz repeated several times that the people who will be most hurt by the economics of ObamaCare are the poorest, the minorities, and the elderly on fixed incomes … and he explained why this is so. He read from letters that provided supporting anecdotal evidence. He explained why businesses won’t hire and are letting people go or limiting their hours, and why many people are having to look for second jobs and why that’s so hard. These examples have to resonate with people who are losing their jobs, or getting their hours limited, or are forced to take second jobs.
The best nominee is someone who can paint the big picture and fill in the details with specific examples. Obama did that in 2008. There are many Republicans who can do that in 2014 and 2016, but I don’t think the moderate Republicans can do it.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/25/2013 @ 12:54 pmHey guys, Dayum. Late last night while my better angel had momentarily hopped off my shoulder, the devil on my other shoulder irresistibly compelled me to drop a goodie on the most recent “open thread”. I admit I am very bummed that nobody noticed. Or are you shunning me?
elissa (491145) — 9/25/2013 @ 12:54 pmAnd the reason they can’t do it is moderate Republicans still think government is the answer, only a government that promotes conservative values instead of limited government. That isn’t the answer that will work with voters. If you tell them government is the answer, they will want the Party that tells them they can give them more. What we need is for the GOP to say government isn’t the answer and here’s why.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/25/2013 @ 12:55 pmIMO what many people who live in blue states believe is that you aren’t going to reach certain large segments of voters with a limited government argument. These are probably voters you know personally, work with, or are related to.
The fact is, we probably aren’t going to reach a lot of those voters on the merits. They live in a blue state and are surrounded by institutions and people who reinforce liberal values. Our best hope is that they will either be swayed by emotion to stay home or take a chance on a different path.
In other words, I think it’s a mistake to decide we have to pick the nominee who appeals to your next-door neighbors. You live in blue states. Your neighbors won’t be the GOP’s target voters. The key is finding new ways to reach them, not threading the needle with the old ways.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/25/2013 @ 1:03 pm==elissa and Dana,
I disagree that voters need a nuanced conservative or they won’t respond.==
DRJ–That was not really the point I was trying to make (nor did I take that as Dana’s point). Of course maybe I misinterpreted her! But thanks for letting me know that I did not do a good job of making the point I thought I was trying to make. 🙂 Perhaps my separate comment about Walker’s success with a clear bold solution on a specific issue caused part of the confusion.
elissa (491145) — 9/25/2013 @ 1:05 pmObama demonized Romney in order to use emotion to convince GOP voters to stay home. It worked and, while the media helped demonize Romney, it wasn’t a big part of that process. Negative campaigning works and the GOP nominees didn’t do it against Obama. Hopefully the next GOP nominee won’t let a fear of demonizing Hillary let that happen again.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/25/2013 @ 1:06 pmThey are this craven, of course, the fine print is something likely different;
http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/09/25/3648652/more-options-in-florida-insurance.html
narciso (3fec35) — 9/25/2013 @ 1:12 pmelissa,
Here’s what you said in summarizing how you view JD’s comment and/or the conservative approach:
I think the bolded portion is an inaccurate summary of the conservative position so I tried to clarify what I think it is in my comments.
As a courtesy, I suggested that you want a more nuanced approach. I apologize if that is not the case. Apparently you believe the choice is between a Republican like Romney who promises a better managed government, with lots of details of how he will micromanage government to help everyone, and a Republican like Cruz who wants limited government. Frankly, that is the way we view the choice here in Texas but I have a hard time understanding how a conservative would choose a nominee who believes government is the answer — as long as it’s done well. That’s Democrat-lite, not conservatism.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/25/2013 @ 1:16 pmAnd if you choose Democrat-lite, you will always lose because voters will want the real thing.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/25/2013 @ 1:18 pmelissa,
I’ve re-read your comments twice. Please help me understand what you are saying if I still don’t understand. I will try to get it this time.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/25/2013 @ 1:21 pmWhereas the reality is more like this;
http://www.ijreview.com/2013/09/81096-explosion-healthcare-premiums-founding-fathers-apparently/
narciso (3fec35) — 9/25/2013 @ 1:29 pmIMO a small government argument is precisely what will appeal to blue state voters. Try opening a bar or restaurant in Chicago or San Francisco. Hell, try building a house on the Kali coast.
http://www.sloleaks.com/
I realize the number of people who want to open a business or build a house is small. But the number of people who want to make a living or live in a house isn’t.
Why are houses so unaffordable in Kali compared to Texas? Government. When I last checked around 10 years ago compliance costs added $60,000 to the price of a home in Kali, about $4,000 in Texas.
Big government makes its own arguments against itself. Liberal institutions don’t always reinforce liberal tendencies; they repel at least as much as they attract all on their own.
If the GOP actually would try and make the case, and could do it effectively, that would tip the scales against liberal institutions.
But after watching the quislings in the Senate recently, it’s obvious they would never make the case even if it ever did occur to them to try.
As far as Obama’s demonization of Romney, that got out Obama’s own base. It wasn’t what kept the GOP base home. The GOP and Romney did that all on their own.
Steve57 (b0c53e) — 9/25/2013 @ 1:44 pmSteve, the OCRegister did a feature back during the boom years of the 90’s, and found that compliance costs and delays constituted 1/3 of the retail cost of a new home in Orange County CA.
askeptic (b8ab92) — 9/25/2013 @ 2:06 pmIt can’t be any better now, and is most likely worse.
DRJ, elissa had it right re my comment. I was not suggesting a more nuanced candidate. God forbid. I was however musing over the difficulty of convincing people that more government is not in their best interest. The fact is convincing people of that is pushing the big rock uphill.
Consider how many people are part of entitlements and rely on them; how many people live their lives conditioned by an expectation that the government will provide for them from cradle to grave (see: Julia). That is a tough habit to break. Cigarettes cause cancer, yet thousands upon thousands of people die from lung cancer, emphysema, and other diseases associated with smoking. How much more difficult is it to convince low information voters – WHO DO NOT WANT TO BECOME INFORMED – that weaning off the government teat is in their best interest and the country’s as a whole?
We want what we want when we want it. It’s not the just gimme shelter, but gimme…..everything.
I just don’t know how a candidate effectively breaks through that wall.
Dana (6178d5) — 9/25/2013 @ 2:07 pmDRJ- Actually I summarized nothing. I made up a silly simplistic paraphrase that I clearly stated I knew would never be used by a candidate. I never meant you or anyone to take it seriously or verbatem, and it was certainly not meant as an insult. But I did hope that it might prompt someone smart and principled who I respect, like you or JD, to come up with real examples of some conservative messaging– a campaign phrase– that you thought could resonate and might be effective to change hearts and minds of independents and some democrats and gasp! maybe even some blue staters. (And hopefully that it would be something different than has been used unsuccessfully in recent years by conservatives who too often can’t even get past the primaries let alone the general.) Also you might want to count up the electoral votes from the “blue states” and consider all the campaign money that pours into Republican candidates across the country from blue states before you dis them and write these big states off as hopeless or not worth the effort. I think you sometimes forget that there are a lot of true staunch conservatives who live in blue and purple states, DRJ.
I have to run out to an appointment so if I don’t respond further for a while that is why.
By the way. I still think Democrat-lite and RINO do not well serve discussion.
elissa (491145) — 9/25/2013 @ 2:11 pmRe: Duck Dynasty…my comment got eaten.
I love the show. Any family that made its millions from hard work, perseverance, and sheer determination and do not take themselves too seriously, scores points in my book. That they can also be simultaneously witty, insightful, and entertaining while looking like an edgy ZZ Top(s) with hot wives and normal kids, makes it even more fun.
Dana (6178d5) — 9/25/2013 @ 2:11 pmelissa, DRJ,
I think if one does not regularly mix with the hoi polloi, whether at work or elsewhere, one might not realize how incredibly dull people have become with regard to doing their own research and investigation into what elected officials doublespeak promises really mean and how it would impact everything from the economy to personal freedoms. Sadly, sound bytes and 140 characters are the most effective conveyers of messaging.
Dana (6178d5) — 9/25/2013 @ 2:16 pmDana. Thanks. It seems we are on the same page.
elissa (491145) — 9/25/2013 @ 2:18 pmSPQR @ 103,
Funny you.
Dana (6178d5) — 9/25/2013 @ 2:28 pmAfter his “filibuster” (Ted Cruz calls this a filibuster) ended at noon because the time for a cloture vote had arrived, an hour later Ted Cruz went on the Rush Limbaugh show.
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2013/09/25/ted_cruz_is_fighting_for_freedom
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2013/09/25/senator_cruz_continues_the_filibuster_on_eib
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 9/25/2013 @ 2:28 pmDana,
Lets not forget that McCain and McConnell led tort reform, spending reform, entitlement reform, warned about expanding these wars into nation building and generally tried to do what they are being criticized today by a guy who still has not accomplished anything.
And being called names – lets not forget that it was Cruz who threw the first 200 or so stones and was once called a wacko bird and thats the meme
Cruz is in this for personal gain. It was Lee who has done the heavy lifting on all this
course IEPWJ (6140f6) — 9/25/2013 @ 2:33 pmDana, all my best lines are stolen from wittier people.
SPQR (768505) — 9/25/2013 @ 2:33 pmhttp://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/23/health/lower-health-insurance-premiums-to-come-at-cost-of-fewer-choices.html?pagewanted=all
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 9/25/2013 @ 2:33 pmAnd along comes the concern troll….
SPQR (768505) — 9/25/2013 @ 2:34 pmsorry about the inadvertent sock puppet – that last post was mine
EPWJ (6140f6) — 9/25/2013 @ 2:34 pmSammy, when Wendy Davis and Bernie Sanders both gave long speeches that had absolutely no hope of delaying or preventing anything, everyone in the MFM called those filibusters.
Steve57 (b0c53e) — 9/25/2013 @ 2:35 pmhttp://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/09/23/aca-family-glitch-issues/2804017/
http://www.publicintegrity.org/2013/09/16/13425/unions-chafing-obamacare-provisions
(Links from Morning Jolt)
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 9/25/2013 @ 2:36 pmSPQR
Yes, name calling again, always the last resort of fake persona’s on the internet
EPWJ (6140f6) — 9/25/2013 @ 2:36 pmI love it when people rewrite history right in front of your face.
JD (0b0d05) — 9/25/2013 @ 2:39 pmEPWJ, if Cruz is in this for his own gain (fame? wealth? power?) and believes he will actually gain something other than what he hopes to accomplish by this move, then he just must be dumb. But I don’t believe he is.
SPQR, don’t ruin it for me!
Dana (6178d5) — 9/25/2013 @ 2:43 pmDana – anyone he disagrees with is just in it for personal gain, book deals, Fox shows, and has a checkered past. Its a thing.
JD (5c1832) — 9/25/2013 @ 2:50 pmThat’s just nonsense, JD. Either be succinct and comprehensive and tell us *what* he hopes to gain, or stop making the accusation.
Dana (6178d5) — 9/25/2013 @ 3:02 pmI agree with Veronique De Rugy,
“Senator Ted Cruz’s effort hat least succeeded in reminding people what the debate over Obamacare isn’t over. “
At the very least, he has done this. And that is indeed a great thing, in and of itself. Hopefully this will encourage, prod, and shake the R’s awake from their malaise and stupefying stupor of abdication of their duties to their constituencies.
Dana (6178d5) — 9/25/2013 @ 3:09 pmeh…“Senator Ted Cruz’s effort hat (sic) least succeeded in reminding people what (sic) the debate over Obamacare isn’t over. “
Dana (6178d5) — 9/25/2013 @ 3:11 pmI didn’t say it had any basis in reality, Dana. 😉
JD (5c1832) — 9/25/2013 @ 3:16 pmI am confused, how can a fake persona have a cabal?
SPQR (768505) — 9/25/2013 @ 3:29 pmVeronique de Rugy almost makes me want to take back everything I’ve said about the French for five decades….
SPQR (768505) — 9/25/2013 @ 3:43 pm144- The perceiver has multiple personalities?
askeptic (b8ab92) — 9/25/2013 @ 3:49 pmaskeptic, you know how offensive the idea of “fake persona” is? I have celebrity testimonials that I’m 100% Genuine SPQR.
SPQR (768505) — 9/25/2013 @ 3:51 pmBut, can you trust a “celebrity”?
askeptic (b8ab92) — 9/25/2013 @ 3:56 pmaskeptic, well … it is Miley Cyrus.
SPQR (768505) — 9/25/2013 @ 4:25 pmSo was this Green Eggs and Ham thing for real or just more liberal slander?
Dhar (701018) — 9/25/2013 @ 8:20 pm@150 Comment by Dhar (701018) — 9/25/2013 @ 8:20 pm
It is called a bedtime story; he was reading to his children and keeping a promise.
The former, even a liberal can understand; the latter, probably not.
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/25/2013 @ 8:43 pm“It is called a bedtime story; he was reading to his children and keeping a promise.”
But he didn’t like, apply it to Obamacare defunding did he?
Dhar (701018) — 9/25/2013 @ 8:54 pmI really don’t know. Did he?
Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 9/25/2013 @ 8:55 pmDherp is really slow.
JD (5c1832) — 9/25/2013 @ 9:06 pmIt’s one of those things Dhar, if you need to ask the question, then you won’t understand the explanation.
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/25/2013 @ 9:16 pmJD — he is lost.
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/25/2013 @ 9:17 pmI interpreted the Green Eggs point as about choice.
Obamacare is, in a nutshell, the federal government trying to force a choice. On families, on employers, on insurers. The degree of coercion and fines (ahem, mandates) is pretty substantial. That the government is waiting these penalties for the favored who donate the right way is telling as well.
But at the end of the day it’s about choice.
What if I do not like these green eggs and ham Obama is serving? Well tough. I must eat them. My neighbor must eat them. Every state and every citizen and ever employer must eat them.
Maybe I’m overthinking it, but this is what I took from it.
Dustin (303dca) — 9/25/2013 @ 9:25 pmwaiting should say waving. I need my glasses to avoid all these typos, and apologize!
Dustin (303dca) — 9/25/2013 @ 9:26 pmMr. Cruz’s speech trend:
Life, science, art, math, politics, literature, history, creativity, passion, compassion, logic, reason, tolerance,… Family
President Obama’s speech trend:
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/25/2013 @ 9:26 pmPolitics, race, intolerance, Bush, unexpectedly, blame, division,… I
Over twenty-hours of speaking and all the liberals could pick apart is his choice of story to his little ones.
(and even that mystifies them.)
Looks like we may have a winner.
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/25/2013 @ 9:31 pm@153 Ag80 — 😉
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/25/2013 @ 9:39 pmNeeds more “I” and “me”!
Dustin (303dca) — 9/25/2013 @ 9:44 pmDouble Down: Obamacare Will Increase Avg. Individual-Market Insurance Premiums By 99% For Men, 62% For Women
Mine increased 140% already due to Obamacare it has!
Yoda (ee1de0) — 9/25/2013 @ 11:13 pm@162 Comment by Dustin (303dca) — 9/25/2013 @ 9:44 pm
Yeah, just didn’t want to exhaust those letters on my keyboard…keyboards.
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/25/2013 @ 11:17 pmSo, did Obama care get stopped?
The house set to send new bill delaying it another year
EPWJ (c3dbb4) — 9/26/2013 @ 2:18 am“What if I do not like these green eggs and ham Obama is serving? Well tough. I must eat them.”
Have you read the book? Because it is not one I would highlight right before the new health care law took effect.
Dhar (aa0e66) — 9/26/2013 @ 4:37 am167. “Have you read the book?”
What’s OFA foisting on us these days? First graders?
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/26/2013 @ 7:38 amGary — He is quite perplexed. lol
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/26/2013 @ 11:49 amTed Cruz wanted to motivate the grassroots and it appears he did. Republican Senators’ phones have been in meltdown since Cruz’s speech.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/26/2013 @ 12:04 pmHave you read the book? Because you know what other law is in effect? The Constitution. Why don’t you try it before you decide you don’t like it.
When Obama threatens to veto the CR because he doesn’t get everything he wants, he is saying he is opposed to the Constitution. Because Congress also gets a veto. They can veto any law they don’t like by not appropriating funding for it. They get to veto any court decision they don’t like by not appropriating funds for the operation of any court except the Supreme Court. The SCOTUS is the only federal court established by the Constitution. All others are creations of Congress.
When Tiger Beat says he won’t negotiate with Congress over the CR, or the debt ceiling, he is saying he intends to steal their Constitutional powers over spending and borrowing.
He needs to shut up and eat his green eggs and ham.
Steve57 (52f0df) — 9/26/2013 @ 12:19 pmElections have consequences. The people have given control of the only chamber of Congress that originates spending bills to the GOP. Deal with it.
Steve57 (52f0df) — 9/26/2013 @ 12:21 pmDRJ–If you are around I wanted to be sure you’ve seen this article which I know will speak to you.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/359508/what-we-just-saw-michael-walsh
Rich Lowrey and Ann Coulter also had good and mostly complimentary pieces out today on Cruz’ efforts (along with others in the nacent tea party caucus) to shine a light both on Obamacare and Conservatism.
elissa (491145) — 9/26/2013 @ 12:31 pmThis so epitomizes the problem with the old guard R’s and their continual denial of reality and stagnant neanderthal ways.
Dana (6178d5) — 9/26/2013 @ 1:31 pm“When Obama threatens to veto the CR because he doesn’t get everything he wants, he is saying he is opposed to the Constitution”
Because the constitution allows him to veto? Your legislative reading skills continue to impress.
“They get to veto any court decision they don’t like by not appropriating funds for the operation of any court except the Supreme Court.”
Actually they also can’t cut the salaries of inferior court judges. That’s in Article III, section 1.
Dhar (b54382) — 9/26/2013 @ 5:43 pmActually they also can’t cut the salaries of inferior court judges. That’s in Article III, section 1.
Comment by Dhar (b54382) — 9/26/2013 @ 5:43 pm
Section 1.
The judicial power of the United States, shall be vested in one Supreme Court, and in such inferior courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The judges, both of the supreme and inferior courts, shall hold their offices during good behaviour, and shall, at stated times, receive for their services, a compensation, which shall not be diminished during their continuance in office.
Cut their salaries most certainly they can, Dark Lord of the Dumb! If eliminate that court, diminish their salary to nothing it would! If no no office to continue in, no compensation to be had!
Yoda (04dfe5) — 9/27/2013 @ 2:11 amOnce down the Dumb side of the Force you start, Duhr, forever dominate your destiny it will and does!
Yoda (c1642d) — 9/27/2013 @ 2:16 am173. Thanks for that link ‘lissa.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/27/2013 @ 1:06 pmReally? Cause you just quoted the exact text that says they can’t. Is it too much to ask you at least read what you post?
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 9/27/2013 @ 1:55 pmWhy do we go down into these rabbit holes chasing squirrels with these clowns? Look at how many times the goal posts have changed. And when it is proven that they are lying, they just flit on to their next turdlet.
JD (3fe7ac) — 9/27/2013 @ 2:55 pmI love how you adopt the air of superiority as you go from dumb to dumber.
I saw your comment and I really did laugh out loud.
Steve57 (52f0df) — 9/27/2013 @ 3:06 pmComment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 9/27/2013 @ 1:55 pm
Please read an entire post and think before you reply.
He clearly made the point that their salaries can be cut to zero by eliminating their post.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/27/2013 @ 3:13 pmThe Constitution forbids cutting the pay of a Art III judge but does not require Congress to keep the courthouse open.
SPQR (768505) — 9/27/2013 @ 3:16 pmActually it seems to be an open question going back to the “Midnight Judges.” NRO had a discussion on the subject during the run-up to the 2012 campaign. Here’s the argument that the judgeship is terminated if the judge’s duty station is shuttered.
http://www.nationalreview.com/bench-memos/286077/gingrich-s-awful-proposal-abolish-judgeships-part-4-matthew-j-franck
Ed Whelan takes the opposing view. But it’s never been settled. The Constitution doesn’t directly address the issue.
Steve57 (52f0df) — 9/27/2013 @ 3:57 pmIf Congress can establish a court, dis-establish a court it can do too!
Yoda (ee1de0) — 9/27/2013 @ 5:56 pmAnd there’s an argument to be made that if the court is abolished then there is no “continuance in office.” Hence no Constitutional requirement to continue paying the judges.
The plain language states the judges’ pay can’t be cut while they’re serving on the bench.
Steve57 (52f0df) — 9/27/2013 @ 6:39 pmThe key words are continuance in office. If there is no office, there is no continuance.
nk (dbc370) — 9/27/2013 @ 7:01 pmGreat minds, alike they think.
nk (dbc370) — 9/27/2013 @ 7:02 pm“And there’s an argument to be made that if the court is abolished then there is no “continuance in office.””
Yes but the text also says they “shall hold their offices during good behaviour.” So there’s some limits to taking people out of office.
Dhar (d05934) — 9/27/2013 @ 7:07 pmDhar is imdimwit and it’ll “but, but, but, if, if, if” you all day if you engage it. But, but, but, if, if, if, you have nothing better to do amuse the poor thing by all means.
nk (dbc370) — 9/27/2013 @ 7:17 pmDhar, that’s only saying that the judge can be removed from office if he does not maintain “good behavior” and the mechanism is impeachment, it does not mean that the court itself must be open.
SPQR (768505) — 9/27/2013 @ 7:18 pmThis so epitomizes the problem with the old guard R’s and their continual denial of reality and stagnant neanderthal ways.
Even scarier is the BS and bilge that comes out of the mouths of flat-out leftwing Democrats (ie, just about any and every politician with a “D” next to his or her name) and very, very squishy independents. All the billowing, bombastic (and idiotic) liberalism floating out there among the populace is far more pathetic to me because of my awareness of how the mid-point of the socio-political spectrum has tilted further and further to the left over the decades. Hence, a Peter King is merely one more person increasingly lost amongst all the other inmates who are running the insane asylum.
I was speaking to a dyed-in-the-wool liberal/Democrat about Obamacare a few days ago, and the ignorance on his part was so extreme and ludicrous as to be purposefully irresponsible and dishonest. It was like arguing with a person who claims that 2 plus 2 doesn’t equal 4.
When I become surprised by the thinking of such people, I have to pinch myself and force the symbol of the city of Detroit or a country like Venezuela or Greece into my vision. IOW, no matter how bad and corroded things become, far too many left-leaning humans will simply close their eyes and think pretty thoughts. That’s why a community or society can become extremely corrupt and increasingly defective.
Mark (58ea35) — 9/27/2013 @ 7:29 pmSPQR – you realize that is imdw, right?
JD (5c1832) — 9/27/2013 @ 7:45 pmSure.
SPQR (768505) — 9/27/2013 @ 8:11 pmDo you have any plans or goals to try to get some joy and meaning into your life, Mark? You increasingly sound as if you are despondent and like you think things are almost hopeless. When you say you have to pinch yourself and force the symbol of the city of Detroit or a country like Venezuela or Greece into your vision it is truly disturbing to read. I assume you are a U.S. citizen although I suppose you may not be. Are you close to the point of leaving the country or giving up your citizenship to preserve what’s left of your sanity? Have you given thought to where you think you could be happier and/or where you’d be able to feel more fulfilled and comfortable? We all only go round in life once, you know. Most people find it worthwhile to enjoy life and its experiences and blessings as much as is possible during our short, uncertain, and often troubled time on earth.
Is there someone in your real life that you can talk to and share your fears and frustrations with who can perhaps help you gain some perspective? I think you could benefit from some “pretty thoughts” at least once in a while.
elissa (491145) — 9/27/2013 @ 8:34 pmYes but the text also says they “shall hold their offices during good behaviour.” So there’s some limits to taking people out of office.
Comment by Dhar (d05934) — 9/27/2013 @ 7:07 pm
Judges to hold office after that office eliminated is, impossible it is! When nominated to office judge is, a specific office it is, not a general office! President nominates Joe Bob to 11th Circuit Middle District Court of Alabama, and Senate concurs they do, Joe Bob only judge of Middle District he is! If that District becomes dis-established by congress it does, judge no longer he is!
If Judge of 11th Circuit Middle District Court of Alabama to move to 5th Circuit Eastern District of Texas does want, re-nominated and re-confirmed by Senate, he must be! If position above judge opens in Appeals Court it does, nominated by Prez and confirmed by Senate for that position he must be! If not, President appoint any sitting Federal judge directly to Circuit Court of Appeals or Supreme Court without Senate confirmation he could!
Yoda (a84075) — 9/27/2013 @ 10:07 pmApparently Dhar thinks when you appoint a nominee to a judgeship, you are obligated to keep that court open regardless of position.
So if a city loses half its population, you can’t abolish any court no matter how little need there is for the court.
Congrats, Dhar, you just demonstrated the kind of thinking that turned Detroit into what it is today.
You have to be a government apparatchik.
Steve57 (52f0df) — 9/27/2013 @ 10:08 pm*regardless of
Steve57 (52f0df) — 9/27/2013 @ 10:09 pmpositionconditions*Just kidding about closing federal courts in Detroit. The half of the population that left is the half that never needed to face a judge.
They’re probably adding judgeships in Detroit.
Steve57 (52f0df) — 9/27/2013 @ 10:10 pmDuhr, if into stadium of 60,000 Einstein genius equals you go, lower the average IQ of each by 10 points you would!
STRONGGGGGGG with the Dumb side you are! Let go of your ignorance, once down the Dumb side you start, forever dominate your destiny it will!
Yoda (35b482) — 9/27/2013 @ 10:11 pmYou increasingly sound as if you are despondent and like you think things are almost hopeless.
Elissa, let’s just say that I’m not naive, that my eyes are wide open.
By contrast, I notice some forumers here label people who they disagree with as “trolls.” That word suggests to me a person who is disingenuous and trying to make waves not because he or she is sincerely leftwing — and buys into the bilge they’re dishing — but because he likes causing a stir amongst those he’s debating.
In a way that would be reassuring, meaning if the rhetoric of so-called trolls in this forum were idiotic and dishonest not because such people truly were liberal, but because they were merely trying to trigger flame wars, to be contrarian for contrarian’s sake. If it were that simple, Obama, as one example, wouldn’t be in the White House, or he, in effect, wouldn’t be the ultimate troll, the troll par excellence.
Mark (58ea35) — 9/27/2013 @ 10:30 pmThe Dems invented defunding:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/roll-it-back_757212.html
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/28/2013 @ 1:26 amWell OK, Mark. I guess that clears it up then.
elissa (491145) — 9/28/2013 @ 2:05 amelissa, this will clear everything up. The Tom Friedman Op/Ed generator.
http://thomasfriedmanopedgenerator.com/about.php
Steve57 (52f0df) — 9/28/2013 @ 2:16 amActually accepted for publication by a “Social Science” journal.
I have to use the scare quotes because they’re definitely not social, and what they do ain’t science. But the keggers every Friday over at the geology school…
Steve57 (52f0df) — 9/28/2013 @ 2:27 amWhat will the ape eared leader do when no one buys his phony health care?
mg (31009b) — 9/28/2013 @ 3:20 amPlay golf and have a smoke?
“Judges to hold office after that office eliminated is, impossible it is!”
Yes, that’s the point. The constitution says he can stay for good behavior.
Dhar (d05934) — 9/28/2013 @ 4:55 amIamadimwit – when do you plan on reverting to your norm and posting pics of Patterico’s house again?
JD (95df54) — 9/28/2013 @ 5:36 amYes, that’s the point. The constitution says he can stay for good behavior.
Comment by Dhar (d05934) — 9/28/2013 @ 4:55 am
My license plate says 11-13.
nk (dbc370) — 9/28/2013 @ 6:10 am72. Comment by Dustin (303dca)
Cruz has every intention of seeing Obamacare repealed. He is digging in for a long, hard fight.
He actually claimed, as recently as the beginning of August, that if Obamacare wasn’t stopped now, before it went into effect, the fight was over.
http://www.hughhewitt.com/senator-ted-cruz-on-defunding-obamacare/
The subsidies are a crazy quilt and have pernicious economic effects, and are recalculated when the time comes to file income tax returns.
Sammy Finkelman (366297) — 9/28/2013 @ 7:47 pm79. Comment by Steve57 (b0c53e) — 9/25/2013 @ 9:45 am
You can lie to people about what’s going on in Libya or Syria or Mexico, or even in the recesses of the IRS and NSA. But you can’t lie to people about their own household expenses.
And you also can’t contradict yourself, at least to younger people.
Sammy Finkelman (366297) — 9/28/2013 @ 7:50 pm100. Comment by SPQR (1ec81f) — 9/25/2013 @ 11:19 am
Yes, Sammy, it is not legal to sell noncompliant health insurance to other than grandfathered customers.
Is it not legal to sell it, or is not legal to claim that buying it would avoid the tax/penalty?
And perhaps maybe also not qualify for being paid for by pre-tax income.
Somebody should check what the law actually says.
I don’t know that the PPACA, or any law, makes such insurance contracts actually illegal.
Concierge care, which is a form of non-complaint insurance, is certainly legal. (It may not be legal for doctors who acept Medicare to do that, I don’t know)
For 2014, the penalty is relatively small. For a family earning $75,000, it is only about $65 a month. It would make sense to market a noncompliant policy. It might be hard to price, but so is anything else, and a lot in insurance sold on the exchanges is going to wind up being underpriced.
Sammy Finkelman (366297) — 9/28/2013 @ 8:02 pm