Kerry: Planned U.S. Attack on Syria Will Be “Unbelievably Small” – Updated with Cheerios
This is so absurd you have to check to make sure it’s not satire. They’ve crossed a “red line,” we are told, and America’s credibility is at stake. What better way to build our credibility than to promise an attack that is “unbelievably small”?
Kerry said the Americans were planning an “unbelievably small” attack on Syria. “We will be able to hold Bashar al-Assad accountable without engaging in troops on the ground or any other prolonged kind of effort in a very limited, very targeted, short-term effort that degrades his capacity to deliver chemical weapons without assuming responsibility for Syria’s civil war. That is exactly what we are talking about doing – unbelievably small, limited kind of effort.”
Nothing says “watch out, Iran!” like a promise that our military response to Syria will be feckless. (Assad, for his part, is, um, not promising to keep his response small.)
It sounds like the desperate last pitch of a bad used car peddler. If the polls are any indication, Americans are responding “no sale.” Hillary can talk today, and Obama can talk tomorrow, but all they’re doing is further undermining U.S. credibility. This is clearly not going to happen, and it has been a disaster at all times.
If our ultimate goal is truly to maintain credibility with Iran, Alan Dershowitz has a suggestion: reject military action against Syria, but approve it now — in advance — on Iran, should they cross their own “red line”:
There is a way out of this dilemma, at least with regard to Iran and its future actions. The president should secure congressional approval now as to the red line with Iran.
He should ask Congress for authorization now to take military action against Iran’s nuclear weapons program if it were to cross the red line he has already drawn. If Congress gives its approval, that action will increase the deterrent threat currently directed against Iran, by underscoring the red line as having been drawn both by the president and by Congress.
It should leave no doubt in the minds of the Iranian mullahs that the president not only has the will to enforce the red line but also has the authority from Congress to do so.
Having the authority to engage in military action does not require that the president take such action; it only empowers him to do so if he chooses, without further action by Congress.
But as President Obama has repeatedly warned: he does not bluff; if he says he will not permit Iran to develop nuclear weapons, he means it — unless Congress stops him.
If Congress were now to give advance approval to the red line with Iran, the mullahs will understand that there will be no stopping the president from keeping his word. Only if the mullahs believe that President Obama will attack their nuclear reactors if they cross the red line will there be any hope of deterring them from doing so.
The media would make this approach difficult, of course; approving force even with strict conditions will be portrayed as a bellicose act. Also, in this case, waiting for the red line to be crossed is probably waiting too long. North Korea has nukes (thank you, Bill Clinton) and threatens us every time they want money. The conventional wisdom on North Korea seems to be, since they already have them, an attack is no longer feasible. I’m not sure why that line of argument would not apply to Iran as well.
I don’t necessarily endorse Dershowitz’s proposal, but it’s at least worth discussing.
It can’t be any stupider than promising an unbelievably small attack on Syria.
*** Update ****
A second senior official, who has seen the most recent planning, offered this metaphor to describe such a strike: If Assad is eating Cheerios, we’re going to take away his spoon and give him a fork. Will that degrade his ability to eat Cheerios? Yes. Will it deter him? Maybe. But he’ll still be able to eat Cheerios.
Treason does not have to be witting, does it?
http://shoebat.com/2013/09/07/did-john-mccain-let-the-cat-out-of-the-obagy/
Rather odd bedfellows Kerry and McVain I should say.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/9/2013 @ 7:36 amUnbelievably small? Well what do you critics want? Kerry’s speech writers rejected the term teensy weensy.
elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/9/2013 @ 7:41 amSomehow I feel certain that Kerry has promised something “unbelievably small” on more than one prior occasion.
Pious Agnostic (c45233) — 9/9/2013 @ 7:42 am“I don’t necessarily endorse Dershowitz’s proposal, but it’s at least worth discussing.”
At this point we don’t even know that shadow CiC Jarrett hasn’t been pulling the cart toward WWIII as a sop to Iran.
Some may scoff, but entering Armageddon with this crew at the helm guarantees that we will be on the losing side, i.e., not Israel’s.
Unless the old Soviet fissible weapons in Iran’s hands are lying in pieces on the shop floor the shock and awe will be spread around fairly equally.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/9/2013 @ 7:45 am“Unbelievably small”. That’s a punch line in a sorority girl’s joke about the guy she went out with last night. Sorta like the “Needle Dick” joke in an old Bette Midler/Shelley Lang movie.
But where Lurch and The Bamster are concerned, it just may be appropriate.
Comanche Voter (f4c7d5) — 9/9/2013 @ 7:45 amHow so? Both are dedicated to maintaining Democrats in office over the interests of the United States.
Rob Crawford (c55962) — 9/9/2013 @ 7:57 amMost incompetent administration in modern history.
SPQR (768505) — 9/9/2013 @ 7:57 amMeghan’s Coward Daddy says we can trust the rebels and disgraced p.o.s. David Petraeus paused his incessant hoochie diddling just long enough to tweet that Obama is right and the American people are wrong wrong wrong
little pink houses for you and me
happyfeet (c60db2) — 9/9/2013 @ 7:59 amwhat a totally appropriate description of our SCOAMF and the clown car that is his administration.
redc1c4 (abd49e) — 9/9/2013 @ 8:00 amJohn Paul Jones battling the 44 gun Serapis: “I have not yet begun to fight.”
David Farragut at Mobile Bay: “Damn the torpedoes! Full steam ahead!”
Army Air Corps Brigadier Uzal Ent leading the raid on Ploesti: “If nobody comes back, the results will be worth the cost.”
Anthony McAuliffe at Bastogne: “Nuts.”
And now John Kerry on Syria: “[U]nbelievably small, limited kind of effort.”
I’m inspired. Is everyone else inspired?
Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/9/2013 @ 8:06 amAll gave some. Some gave all.
Except for the guy who wrote himself up for a Purple Heart for a scratch he got in Vietnam, who gave an unbelievably small, limited kind of effort.
Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/9/2013 @ 8:10 amThe administration’s argument is “unbelievably weak”.
Colonel Haiku (0f1c4b) — 9/9/2013 @ 8:15 amYou guys do realize there’s a good possibility that the Obama administration is lying about what they’re planning to do in Syria?
Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/9/2013 @ 8:16 amWhich is why I suspect they’re lying.
Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/9/2013 @ 8:17 amTragedy plus time equals comedy.
We have a long wait ahead of us.
Dershowitz’s plan sounds good except for one thing: Obama only attacks disarmed tyrants like Gadaffi. The other ones are too scary!
Patricia (be0117) — 9/9/2013 @ 8:20 amJohn Kerry should be unbelievably flambéed.
Colonel Haiku (0f1c4b) — 9/9/2013 @ 8:20 amThat’s what would happen if there was any justice in the world.
Instead the guy who conducted personal diplomacy with the Vietcong got unbelievably put in charge of our foreign policy by the guy who unbelievably got reelected.
Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/9/2013 @ 8:25 amWe promise an unbelievable small attack, designed to not have any lasting effect on the regime, but just big enough to not be mocked.
JD (ac83e9) — 9/9/2013 @ 8:27 amseems like the world has been turned upside down… Bad is good, lies are truth and evil goes virtually unnoticed.
Colonel Haiku (819c71) — 9/9/2013 @ 8:28 amBingo #18… No minuscule war action for ego!
Colonel Haiku (819c71) — 9/9/2013 @ 8:32 amIn other words, JD, the kind of attack that Obama would plan for his own personal military.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/9/2013 @ 8:33 amThis August was the 70th anniversary of the raid on Ploesti.
http://home.comcast.net/~skyscorpions/Ploesti1.jpg
I wonder if any of the crew of the “Sandman” would recognize their country.
Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/9/2013 @ 8:34 amNo war for O!
Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/9/2013 @ 8:36 am“You guys do realize there’s a good possibility that the Obama administration is lying about what they’re planning to do in Syria?”
Never occurred to me …. ** rolleyes **
SPQR (768505) — 9/9/2013 @ 8:41 am“Unbelievably small”. Like the recovery, the job growth, GDP……
EPWJ (1ea63e) — 9/9/2013 @ 8:41 amit’s more important from a national security perspective to keep an eye on what Meghan’s Coward Daddy and Marco Rubio el cubano mas authentico are doing to ram through their amnesty plan I think
Syria is just yet another one of those things where failmerica steps on its dick in the Middle East
it’ll be amusing and expensive maybe but it’s not going to move any dials
happyfeet (c60db2) — 9/9/2013 @ 8:43 amSteve… I knew Pelosi was an old bag, but 70 years since the last raid?
Colonel Haiku (cd6dde) — 9/9/2013 @ 8:43 amObama only attacks disarmed tyrants like Gadaffi. The other ones are too scary!
I had forgotten that Qadaffi had voluntarily given up his nukes. He must have thought France would protect him.
nk (875f57) — 9/9/2013 @ 8:46 amSPQR, I realize it was something like a reading from the Book of Obvious.
Just saying. I don’t think regime change is off the table.
If this crew wanted to side with AQ, would they tell us that’s who they want to put in charge of Syria? Or would they say, no, don’t worry, it’ll just be a minor little effort?
Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/9/2013 @ 8:48 amWhy anybody, friend or foe, stick his neck out based on anything this SCOAMF says …?
nk (875f57) — 9/9/2013 @ 8:59 amA second senior official, who has seen the most recent planning, offered this metaphor to describe such a strike: If Assad is eating Cheerios, we’re going to take away his spoon and give him a fork. Will that degrade his ability to eat Cheerios? Yes. Will it deter him? Maybe. But he’ll still be able to eat Cheerios.
Are you effin kidding me?
JD (ac83e9) — 9/9/2013 @ 9:08 am#30
Angelo (599003) — 9/9/2013 @ 9:10 amThey won’t or shouldn’t. Mompants and crew has transformed the US into a scurrying, doddering, babbling incompetent old drunk. I’m positive that we are now a source of high comedy and amusement to the rest of the world. Putin, Kim Il, etc yank a string and sit back to watch the show. Our historical friends now fear every dawn….what mess is the US going to involve them in today? And it’ll be a different mess tomorrow
Steve57, its Keystone Kops. If they have another plan that they are hiding, its going to sound like something four, drunk, 20 year old twits dreamed up in a dorm room at 3 AM.
SPQR (768505) — 9/9/2013 @ 9:11 amSee update
JD (ac83e9) — 9/9/2013 @ 9:12 amA competent administration would use all this as a positioning feint to set up for the multiple bombing run blitzkrieg on Iran’s underground nuclear facilities.
There’s that word, competent.
luagha (ac5047) — 9/9/2013 @ 9:13 amAre these cheerios in a bowl? Because a bowl is like one big’ol spoon.
Sarahw (b0e533) — 9/9/2013 @ 9:14 amThe “Chemical weapon of mass destruction” involved in this skirmish is natural gas.
mg (31009b) — 9/9/2013 @ 9:17 amSPQR, we voted for people who would come up with a plan that only four, drunk, 20 year old twits would dream up in a dorm room at 3 AM.
Worse, it seems to be working.
Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/9/2013 @ 9:18 amThis was JFK’s strategy in Viet Nam. Minimize casualties by minimizing the number of US troops out there. So, a force of 2,000 Marines were put up against 10,000 Viet Cong and they lost, but only 2,000 Marines were casualties.
CrustyB (69f730) — 9/9/2013 @ 9:21 amwhat kinda momo eats Cheerios with a fork?
First of all they’re just carbs and they have added sugar besides.
Second of all a fork is an entirely inappropriate implement for to eat Cheerios with.
Lastly if you ever eatened Cheerios you’ll notice they’re very clingy they don’t like to go it alone – so why is our whore president so determined to go it alone?
Damn good question, huh?
happyfeet (c60db2) — 9/9/2013 @ 9:25 amHe’s not going to go it alone. He’s bringing the rest of the Choom Gang with him.
Who we all know were sitting around with their Marxist professors back in their Columbia dorms at 3 a.m. thinking of only the best for the US.
Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/9/2013 @ 9:31 amNot Cheerios anymore, new cereal is KaBoom.
Colonel Haiku (404b97) — 9/9/2013 @ 9:36 amGet w/the times, people!
Colonel Haiku (404b97) — 9/9/2013 @ 9:37 amhttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/BTrdEQKIIAAEL4p.jpg
“I didn’t join Al-Qaeda to fight for America in a limited military intervention with no boots on the ground.”
Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/9/2013 @ 9:38 amThis administration is cuckoo for cocoa puffs crazy!
Colonel Haiku (404b97) — 9/9/2013 @ 9:39 am“Just saying. I don’t think regime change is off the table.”
Steve57 – Obama probably has his Top People on it looking to emulate the success we had pushing regime change in Libya and Egypt.
Winning!
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/9/2013 @ 9:47 amToo late.
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/9/2013 @ 9:48 amNorman Podhoretz takes a few pot shots in today’s Wall Street Journal:
Obama’s Successful Foreign Failure
The president may look incompetent on Syria. But his behavior fits his strategy to weaken America abroad.
“It is entirely understandable that Barack Obama’s way of dealing with Syria in recent weeks should have elicited responses ranging from puzzlement to disgust. Even members of his own party are despairingly echoing in private the public denunciations of him as “incompetent,” “bungling,” “feckless,” “amateurish” and “in over his head” coming from his political opponents on the right.
For how else to characterize a president who declares war against what he calls a great evil demanding immediate extirpation and in the next breath announces that he will postpone taking action for at least 10 days—and then goes off to play golf before embarking on a trip to another part of the world? As if this were not enough, he also assures the perpetrator of that great evil that the military action he will eventually take will last a very short time and will do hardly any damage. Unless, that is, he fails to get the unnecessary permission he has sought from Congress, in which case (according to an indiscreet member of his own staff) he might not take any military action after all………..”
RTWT
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323595004579062811443943666.html
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/9/2013 @ 9:53 amHere’s a thought. Let’s but the guy who thinks it’s a bright idea to shoot through the door if his wife thinks someone’s trying to break in in charge of national defense.
You don’t want an M-16. They’re harder to shoot than shotguns. Which is why we outfit our military with …
M-16s.
To make it fair, I guess.
Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/9/2013 @ 9:55 amFollowing your theme:
* Operation Overlord
* Rolling Thunder
* Desert Storm
* Shock ‘n Awe
* Unbelievably Small
Almost guaranteed to make our enemies shake in their boots — with laughter.
(Hey, Mr. President you picked him.)
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/9/2013 @ 9:58 amPons – If it lasts more than two hours, call your physician or visit an emergency room.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/9/2013 @ 9:59 amThat is a pretty good plan: act stupid, put all eyes on Syria, and then knock the tar out of Iran.
Stage 1: complete.
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:01 amdaleyrocks — Can’t, Obamacare
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:02 amWhile I have often argued that President Obama has purposefully acted to “transform” America to be a weak player on the international scene, as well as a less prosperous (but “more fair”) nation at home,
I think this episode with Syria has been more of an accidental display of fecklessness. I think even many Dems must realize how convoluted and weak Obama has appeared in this debacle; and while President Obama is delighted by a decline in US influence, I can not believe he is content for a second with anything that resembles a diminishment of his own personal influence.
As an aside, as I have said before, I think the invasion of Iraq played out as it did because no one believed that President Bush meant what he said and would actually act against Iraq after so many years of US inaction. That show of strength brought “Khaddafi” (sp??? this month) to a place of negotiation.
Had the Dems not undermined Bush’s efforts, and he would have been enabled to act against Syria and Iran at the time, the world would be a different place; but, as an old friend of mine would say, “But the world is a different place”.
It surely is, and not a better one.
I think America is now a has-been as an influential world power, and any resurgence of prominence will be only at great cost; so it better be for very good and clear reasons.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:10 amAnonymous Signalman, Fanshaw Bay, Taffy 3, Battle off Samar, who took on the Japanese fleet even though all their destroyers together didn’t equal the displacement of one of the Japanese battleships they were up against: “God damn it boys, they’re getting away!”
Anonymous Barack Obama official: “We’re going to take away Assad’s spoon.”
Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:13 amJust send Obama over to Syria to redesign their healthcare system. That will set them back more than any number of bombs could.
Ipso Fatso (1e3278) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:13 amWho’s with me, in thinking that both Obama and Kerry should get fecked?
Smock Puppet, Gadfy, Racist-Sexist Thug, and Bon Vivant All In One Package (afdedb) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:14 amJD, these leaks are stunning, no? His own cadre turning against him?
Patricia (be0117) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:14 am“I can not believe he is content for a second with anything that resembles a diminishment of his own personal influence.”
MD in Philly – Completely Agree. President Thin Skin Squelch Criticism McStompyfoot does not accept negative performance reviews as we have seen time and again.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:14 amThe American people are overwhelmingly opposed to an attack on Syria, no matter how big or small. So how can an attack square with government of, for, and by the people?
It doesn’t, an attack on Syria is a repudiation of the most fundamental concept of representative democracy.
ropelight (9c14c7) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:16 amTo be honest, the real issue with NoKo was ALWAYS that it bordered on China. As a result, it was clearly in China’s interest to make sure they kept their yapdog on a tight leash, and this has happened as long as the Chinese believed we were willing to attack NoKo if we needed to. Obama’s Presidency has substantially undermined that concern, of course… so there’s no reason for them to keep a tight leash on.
Iran does not share a border with China, and that makes a hell of a lot of difference on the military side of things.
Where we might hesitate to go into NoKo if China did some saber rattling, no one is going to rattle much in defense of Iran.
Smock Puppet, Gadfy, Racist-Sexist Thug, and Bon Vivant All In One Package (afdedb) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:18 amI agree with you MD — well said.
The President is now in full ad hoc mode with Syria and he has no leadership ability whatsoever. He does not understand force; when to use it, when not to — much less how to use it.
Amateur hour.
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:19 amThe American people are also overwhelmingly opposed to Obamacare.
Just saying.
Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:19 amIt can’t and won’t significantly change anything–or alter the country’s trajectory –at least short term. But I agree with MD’s observation that this Syria soap opera/reality show has opened the eyes of some Dems and also some in the media.
elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:20 amSmock Puppet – You are just the one to do the fecking! Please wear protection.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:20 amEvery time I see something like “McStompyfoot”, I can’t but help thinking of the story of Rumpelstiltskin, who split himself in two by stomping his foot in outrage.
An OT comment/question. I saw “The Grandmaster” the other night (while daughter and friends were watching “One Direction”).
Anybody familiar with the story of Ip Man and the Gong family to know how close to the truth it is?
The examples of fighting gangs I can believe, as daughter’s Sensei in the past said that karate masters in Okinawa would sometimes walk in bad parts of town incognito to prove that what they taught “worked”, and that their reputation was worthy.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:21 amthink
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:24 amingexamples of fighting gangs
i.e.,. one person fighting a gang
It wasn’t just Okinawa. All over Japan. The interesting thing is that it gave the study of the martial arts a bad name given the public brawls.
Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:28 amAs the midget lady was ‘splaining every little thing, Syria just accepted Russia’s proposal to put their chemicals under international supervision.
So the Chancre on our Republic got what we all wanted, our red line respected.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:31 amFinally. NOW we’ll get to the truth. From a press release:
New America Foundation to Host White House National Security Advisor, Susan E. Rice
elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:32 amMartial arts masters also avoided this, because if they lost the fight they might lose their lucrative sponsorship from the local daimyo.
Musho shugyo, a pilgrimage of warriorship, was generally undertaken by men looking to make a name for themselves. People who had a name to protect didn’t take such risks.
Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:34 amObama and Kerry are a couple of Fruit Loops.
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:35 amComment by Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:28 am
Sensai studied Okinawan, only spoke of Okinawan. To hear his description, to the Okinawans, the “Japanese” were invaders and corrupted karate from being about self-defense.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:35 amMusho shugyo, a pilgrimage of warriorship, was generally undertaken by men looking to make a name for themselves. People who had a name to protect didn’t take such risks.
Comment by Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:34 am
That makes sense. That was inferred from the movie, as the one against many fights always involved someone out to prove their superiority.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:38 amAs long as Dog is about red lines:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2415843/Miley-Cyrus-spanks-twerking-dwarf-performing-We-Cant-Stop-German-TV.html
Youse can so stoppp!
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:38 amKerry: Planned U.S. Attack on Syria Will Be “Unbelievably Small
This is what happens when you try to have things all ways, and you decide to make compromises with logic, as Obama is wont to do.
However, remember, this is just a shot across he bow
Meaning, if Assad does not just take his punishment, but fires back in any way, or this later happens again, yes, even just a little, unbelievably small, use of chemical weapons…..Obama will have to make a decision.
Sammy Finkelman (6c2cdd) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:38 amHe’s got to do something to make a shot across the bow but it doesn’t have to be very much.
Sammy Finkelman (6c2cdd) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:41 amWhen chemical weapons are outlawed, only outlaws will have chemical weapons.
ropelight (9c14c7) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:44 amAlan Dershowitz has a suggestion: reject military action against Syria, but approve it now — in advance — on Iran, should they cross their own “red line”
This is the only way the idea that this would help in deterring Iran would make any sense. (not passing this would hurt, but passing it wouldn’t help)
If, let’s say, Obama wants the ability to issue an ultimatum to Iran, Congress approving this, which in reality has almost no chances of starting a war unless Iran or maybe Russia wants one, Congress passing this, especially after all this heavy lifting, doesn’t mean Congress would pass an even stronger resolution against Iran.
Sammy Finkelman (6c2cdd) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:44 am77. Comment by ropelight (9c14c7) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:44 am
When chemical weapons are outlawed, only outlaws will have chemical weapons.
And land mines, and anything else. Now some things you can along without.
At least nobody – or nobody who has plenty of resources anyway – needs the type of land mines which can not be easily later removed (this, by the way, is what cluster bombs turn into.)
Sammy Finkelman (6c2cdd) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:48 amI never managed to learn Okinawan. It’s entirely different from Japanese.
For instance, “where are you from?”
In Japanese it’s, “Doka kara kimashita ka?”
In Okinawan it’s, “Itta man chu ka?”
I did learn enough about Okinawa to know they don’t hate Americans like you’d sometime be led to believe. I got involved back in the 90s when a couple of Marines and a Sailor raped a little girl.
Which I don’t think any amount of punishment would be enough. I want to say that up front.
But the Okinawans I dealt with went out of their way to tell me they didn’t hate Americans. The Japanese forced them into the Army and mad them fight us. I met more than a few Okinawans who had fond memories of becoming American prisoners and had the time of their lives.
They got released from one gate, went around to another and applied for a job. And worked for the US for 40 years.
Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:50 amAnybody familiar with the story of Ip Man and the Gong family to know how close to the truth it is?
Kung fu movies, and samurai movies, are mostly fairy tales, MD. As are the purported “biographies” of the actual characters they are based on. Give them the same credence you would give the Star Wars movies.
nk (875f57) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:59 amSugar was worth it’s weight in gold in the immediate period following the cessation of hostilities in Okinawa.
And the only Japanese nationals who could get it were POWs.
The US military allowed POWs to serve family members coffee. They’d fill their cups with sugar, and put a thin veneer of coffee on top. Then their family members would leave and dry out the sugar and sell it.
They loved us.
Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:59 amHow about he sits right down and pens a nasty letter to Assad, Sammy? Tells Assad in no uncertain terms that he has crossed the red line that Obama never drew?
Colonel Haiku (146aeb) — 9/9/2013 @ 11:01 amAnd sometimes fantasy meets reality. Undefeated Kiai master versus MMA fighter. Can you guess what happens? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I
nk (875f57) — 9/9/2013 @ 11:03 amTrue. The people making samurai movies had no more connection to actual samurais than you or I. Nobody had done any actual fighting in Japan during the entire Edo period. They didn’t know what Bushido was. They wrote about it a lot.
Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/9/2013 @ 11:07 amInspiration for Obama planning personnel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7vtWB4owdE
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/9/2013 @ 11:14 am“If, let’s say, Obama wants the ability to issue an ultimatum to Iran”
Sammy – He already has, actually several, you might even call them red lines. The big question is whether Obama is serious about enforcing them.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/9/2013 @ 11:17 amEven the very best of the bunch, Yojimbo, was based on a Dashiell Hammett novel, “Red Harvest”, with the setting of Hammett’s short story “Corkscrew”, down to the main character, a nameless mercenary detective with his own anti-hero moral code.
nk (875f57) — 9/9/2013 @ 11:17 amAgreed there can be a lot of hype and myth
that’s why I asked.
The people I’ve known personally did it not just in a gym but for life and death on the battlefield, as bodyguards, as bouncers in bad bars needing to win when the opponent was armed.
I guess some places just hang around long enough and pay enough money you get a black belt.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/9/2013 @ 11:22 amAt dojo the daughter attended the black belt exam was over 2 days and included a 30 minute one-on-3 fight with other black belts in the midst of an 8 hr day with little break time.
daleyrocks — “Over?! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl harbor?!!”
Bluto could teach them a thing or two about history 😉
Classic — I miss John Belushi.
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/9/2013 @ 11:28 amWhat’s amusing about “Red Harvast” is how often its been remade in different genre of film. “Yojimbo”, “Fist Full of Dollars”, “The Warrior and the Sorceress”, “Last Man Standing”….
SPQR (768505) — 9/9/2013 @ 11:32 amI drive by a kung fu studio every Sunday, after dropping off the daughter, which calls itself Ip Man Kung Fu. How it got to Elmwood Park …. The Bruce Lee movies produced a lot of Wing Chung studios, and for a time you were nobody unless you promised Tiger-Dragon style. Heh!
nk (875f57) — 9/9/2013 @ 11:32 amThanks, SPQR, I haven’t seen The Warrior and the Sorceress. I’ll look it up. Last Man Standing has the southern border-town setting I pictured in Corkscrew.
nk (875f57) — 9/9/2013 @ 11:35 amAnd the time period is Hammett’s too.
nk (875f57) — 9/9/2013 @ 11:37 amIn Krav Maga, Hebrew for “contact combat,” the black belt test starts with getting cold cocked.
I’m not serving this up to claim any personal toughness.
I never got that far.
Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/9/2013 @ 11:39 amSteve57. Yellow belt.
Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/9/2013 @ 11:40 amLooked up The Warrior and the Sorceress and remembered why I forgot it. 😉
nk (875f57) — 9/9/2013 @ 11:43 amhttp://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323595004579064600840673322.html MIDDLE EAST NEWS
Sammy Finkelman (bda33a) — 9/9/2013 @ 11:45 amUpdated September 9, 2013, 2:04 p.m. ET.
nk, Warrior and the Sorceress is very bad. Almost so bad its good … but not quite.
SPQR (768505) — 9/9/2013 @ 11:54 ami see Sam the Sham has found a new subject he knows nothing of to opine about.
redc1c4 (abd49e) — 9/9/2013 @ 11:57 amMy god these people are stupid beyond belief.
Rodney King's Spirit (ae12ec) — 9/9/2013 @ 11:57 amObama promised that if I like my doctor, I can keep him. But what if I don’t like my President ?
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 9/9/2013 @ 11:59 amThe finkster must be taking an online typing class. Content doesn’t matter as long as there’s plenty of it, and finky has plenty of IT!
homerow (794c75) — 9/9/2013 @ 12:01 pmI missed that Sammy opined on landmines and cluster munitions …. ** facepalm **
SPQR (768505) — 9/9/2013 @ 12:02 pmLurch & company are now trying to walk back the “no strike for 3rd party control/inspections” offer as not being an offer… #SmartPower!
http://minx.cc/?post=343242
redc1c4 (abd49e) — 9/9/2013 @ 12:03 pmRemember Gilligan’s Island? How the Russians were convinced Gilligan had to be a genius because no one could be that stupid?
They may have had a point.
Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/9/2013 @ 12:06 pmall land mines can be “easily removed”* if you keep track of where and how they are emplaced, and which ones are booby trapped…
it just that most of the end users beloved by Sammy & Friends scatter them as if they were bird seed, with nary a record to be found.
(*for various values of the term, based on military engineering)
redc1c4 (abd49e) — 9/9/2013 @ 12:07 pmOver 100 comments and none of the usual Obama-fluffing trolls are here to tell us how stupid and racist we are?
Please let them out of moderation! Their plaintive bleats would be the sweetest music in this dark hour.
Pious Agnostic (c45233) — 9/9/2013 @ 12:18 pm“Easily removed” means: “as long as somebody else does it.”
—
Oh no, the Russians just proposed diplomacy.
President Obama et al: “Why didn’t we think of that.” ** facepalm **
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/9/2013 @ 12:21 pmBut what if I don’t like my President?
Wait three years, four months and eleven days, for a free upgrade if you renew your four-year contract.
nk (875f57) — 9/9/2013 @ 12:38 pmI’m going to ignore what Kerry says until one of the Smart Power wymn in tells me that it’s true, SIZE MATTERS.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/9/2013 @ 12:51 pmRe #112 – in Obama’s Administration, of course
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/9/2013 @ 12:53 pmPutin is like a large, homosexual, ill-bred tabby cat and Obama is like a little mouse the cat found in the utility room.
Poor little mouse.
happyfeet (c60db2) — 9/9/2013 @ 12:55 pmComment by Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/9/2013 @ 12:06 pm
Remember Gilligan’s Island? How the Russians were convinced Gilligan had to be a genius because no one could be that stupid?
They may have had a point.
Jonah Goldberg quoted Gamel Abdel Nasser ina column this weekend.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/357748/clear-cut-stupidity-syria-jonah-goldberg
And remember, Bullwinkle never dis pull a rabbit out of a hat, but he always triumphed over Boris and Natasha. But that was because of Jay Ward.
Everything also used to work out all right with Maxwell Smart.
And Mr. Magoo.
Sammy Finkelman (bda33a) — 9/9/2013 @ 12:58 pmI can’t hear you, Sammy. I’ve entered he cone of silence.
Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/9/2013 @ 1:00 pmThe land mines that are bad are those that can’t be removed. The United stgates doesn’t have any of that kind. The land mines the US has now in fact degrade after a while.
Sammy Finkelman (bda33a) — 9/9/2013 @ 1:02 pmComment by redc1c4 (abd49e) — 9/9/2013 @ 12:07 pm
all land mines can be “easily removed”* if you keep track of where and how they are emplaced, and which ones are booby trapped…
If none of them are booby trapped, or can be disabled. Also there may be some kind of expensive not readily available to an enemy and time consuming way to get rid of them.
Cluster bomblets that don’t explode – land mines.
Sammy Finkelman (bda33a) — 9/9/2013 @ 1:05 pmObama is unbelievably small.
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 9/9/2013 @ 1:06 pmComment by Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/9/2013 @ 1:00 pm
can’t hear you, Sammy. I’ve entered he cone of silence.
Our token booth clerks in New York used to have that. (or they could have functioned as that)
Sammy Finkelman (bda33a) — 9/9/2013 @ 1:06 pmThe WH has seized on diplomatic movement from Pooter and Chinless. Now they are all about negotiated regime change.
One guess about a rejoinder from Pooter. Go Strong Horse, go!
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/9/2013 @ 1:06 pmSammy – Will the land mines be unguarded if you can find them when you want to remove them, you know, like Syria’s chemical weapons?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/9/2013 @ 1:11 pmFinally. We now know the secret of the Yale Skull and Crossbones that both W and Genghis Khan Kerry were members. The ability to put three feet in ones mouth and look serious.
cedarhill (ee8619) — 9/9/2013 @ 1:30 pmUnbelievably small in my book is a single Tomahawk armed with no more that a 1-mt thermonuclear device.
askeptic (b8ab92) — 9/9/2013 @ 1:48 pmSammy, all unexploded ordnance are “land mines”.
Sheesh.
SPQR (768505) — 9/9/2013 @ 1:51 pmMeh. Flail tanks solve all problems.
Rob Crawford (c55962) — 9/9/2013 @ 2:04 pmactually, they are UXO, not land mines. land mines are designed to detonate reliably when triggered.
UXO are, by definition, *not* reliable, and thus only function as “land mines” in the vaguest of unprofessional terms used by the uninformed to frighten other ignorant idiots.
redc1c4 (abd49e) — 9/9/2013 @ 2:06 pmThe cone of silence works for me, too.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/9/2013 @ 2:09 pmif he’s not being charged for bopping grandpa on the schnozzle then that means…
what does that mean?
happyfeet (c60db2) — 9/9/2013 @ 2:10 pmwrong thread – this one is more about syria
happyfeet (c60db2) — 9/9/2013 @ 2:11 pmDear Sam the Sham:
if you are going to insist on speaking authoritatively regarding mine warfare, unexploded ordnance and related subjects, please be so kind as to proffer your professional credentials relating to the subject.
so far, your postings have demonstrated a knowledge of the subject that isn’t even PowerPoint deep, even without the moving goal posts.
redc1c4 (abd49e) — 9/9/2013 @ 2:11 pm“Meh. Flail tanks solve all problems.”
Rob Crawford – My suggestion was to reduce unemployment by using OWSers and progressives as human IED and land mine detectors and others as the follow on grave diggers. Got your shovel ready jobs right there!
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/9/2013 @ 2:19 pmI’ve wondered recently if Obama’s ME policy is geared towards the reestablishment of the caliphate.
When there was a opportunity to at least offer support to the student uprising in Iran, nothing was done nor said.
And in contrast wherever there’s been a shaky secular government Obama has gone out of way to address to the situation with policy statements and or use of military force.
scott (6196a3) — 9/9/2013 @ 2:42 pm“UXO are, by definition, *not* reliable, and thus only function as “land mines” in the vaguest of unprofessional terms used by the uninformed to frighten other ignorant idiots.”
Exactly.
SPQR (19047b) — 9/9/2013 @ 2:53 pmComment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/9/2013 @ 2:19 pm
That system was quite effective in reducing the numbers of teenagers in Iran during the Iran-Iraq War.
askeptic (b8ab92) — 9/9/2013 @ 2:55 pmRather than take away his Cheerios, can’t we lob some marshmallows or something at him?
rochf (f3fbb0) — 9/9/2013 @ 3:08 pmA horrible invisible drone fly-by.
htom (412a17) — 9/9/2013 @ 3:12 pmhttp://hotair.com/archives/2013/09/09/wh-nat-sec-adviser-hey-assad-wont-shoot-back/
Deputy National Security Advisor. Moron.
SPQR (768505) — 9/9/2013 @ 3:25 pmAll we’re going to do in Syria is ring Assad’s doorbell and run away. I doubt we’re even leaving behind a flaming bag of poop.
SPQR (768505) — 9/9/2013 @ 3:30 pm— stolen from a friend
Reminds me of that Steve Martin line, ‘let’s get small’
narciso (3fec35) — 9/9/2013 @ 3:34 pm139. LOL.
Reid is postponing the cloture vote. Looks like Kerry blew Obombypants’ chance to postpone Taper, tie up the military, kill squeester, thumb Pooter’s nose, goose the economy and payback the Sauds, all in one off-balance ad lib.
Hate to see Urkel’s pillow in the morning.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/9/2013 @ 4:16 pmBarry looks mighty stupid right now.
mg (31009b) — 9/9/2013 @ 4:24 pmAnd he makes us look like lost sheep.
Obama seems grateful for the Russian-Syrian statement that Syria will consider turning over its chemical weapons. Obama reminds me of a drowning man who sees a life preserver almost within his grasp.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/9/2013 @ 4:26 pmShe’s probably too classy to make a statement but I’d love to hear what Condi Rice has to say about all this. Especially the recent rise of Russian influence since her first expertise was Russian-American relations.
elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/9/2013 @ 4:34 pmDRJ – the best was when Kerry AD libbed that, and they had to walk it back immediately. Then, Putin stepped in to fill the void Kerry left, now making multilateral diplomatic talks the punishment for crossing the red line he didnt draw. Subjecting us to another sermon on Tuesday night is punishing innocents for the sins of others.
JD (5c1832) — 9/9/2013 @ 4:37 pmJD,
It is hilarious how Kerry’s gaffe has ended up being the official White House position. (Although that seems oddly appropriate given the history of Obama’s foreign policy decisions.) Hillary loves Kerry’s solution, too.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/9/2013 @ 4:39 pmThen, Putin stepped in to fill the void Kerry left…
Meh, I’d argue Putin’s not a big enough presence to fill a void such as Kerry. He’s like the Sahara Desert of voids.
Colonel Haiku (e2961e) — 9/9/2013 @ 4:40 pmMr. catsup will turn this gaffe into a presidential ad.
mg (31009b) — 9/9/2013 @ 4:51 pmhttp://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-if-you-ask-michelle-do-we-want-be-involved-another-war-answer-no_753007.html
Huh?
Angelo (599003) — 9/9/2013 @ 4:53 pmDRJ – it is so far beyond satire and parody that we will need to create a new genre.
JD (5c1832) — 9/9/2013 @ 4:55 pmIt’s Norwegian Blue diplomacy, but mostly the James Downey speech in ‘Billy Madison’
narciso (3fec35) — 9/9/2013 @ 4:56 pmOK this link will be catnip for all you non- admirers of Lurch.
http://washingtonexaminer.com/30-photos-of-john-kerry-looking-tired-and-glum-about-syria/article/2535441?
elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/9/2013 @ 5:02 pmIf I was going to send a message, I’d at least light a bag of dog poop on fire before running away after ringing the doorbell.
Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/9/2013 @ 5:08 pmYou know how every prisoner tells their jailhouse psychologist they just fell in with the wrong crowd?
That was me.
Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/9/2013 @ 5:11 pmHere’s my guesses regarding Obama’s Tuesday night speech:
1. Obama will use Tuesday’s speech to convince the American public to support action in Syria and to pressure Congress to vote “Yes.”
2. Obama will give a long, tedious, detailed speech designed to make this yesterday’s news, so Syria can fall off Obama’s and the media’s radar.
3. Obama will focus on and take credit for the Kerry-Putin-Assad plan where Syria submits to international inspections. Obama will argue this proves his red line worked.
4. Obama will pivot to jobs.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/9/2013 @ 5:17 pmIf that were a poll, I’d vote for 3.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/9/2013 @ 5:17 pmHere’s my guess: Almost nobody will watch him yap tomorrow night.
I, in fact, must attend a wake then. However unlikely, it really is a prospect preferable to watching Obama’s speech.
elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/9/2013 @ 5:22 pmThat’s a good guess, elissa.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/9/2013 @ 5:23 pmYou know what else is a safe guess? Obama won’t say anything this memorable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=K1vZq3bTS_Y&feature=endscreen
Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/9/2013 @ 5:28 pm152 – Elissa, Mr catsup needs a better photographer.
mg (31009b) — 9/9/2013 @ 5:29 pmWell that was a pointless exercise, how about focusing on things that matter;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hgt87inKDUE
narciso (3fec35) — 9/9/2013 @ 5:40 pmNow wait a minute, this morning Ms Susan Rice was saying, for sure, we have to strike or our enemies will think we are weak :
Tough to be a liberal today: “Wish these people would make up my mind.”
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/9/2013 @ 5:54 pm** hand raises **
Besides, we know what he is going to say anyway:
“I”
“me”
“clear”
“unexpectedly”
“unprecedented”
“Bush”
Going on a limb here: “I heart Putin”
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/9/2013 @ 6:01 pm“Can something be “unbelievably small” AND “just muscular enough not to get mocked?” Asking for a friend. #iykwimaityd”
— Mary Katherine Hamm tweets
SPQR (768505) — 9/9/2013 @ 6:20 pmis McCoward even dimly cognizant that the only person what still thinks he has foreign policy gravitas is his little dog Lindsey?
I don’t think it’s sunk in yet
happyfeet (8ce051) — 9/9/2013 @ 6:20 pmThanks, narciso.
Some sanity remains in the world.
I love the Alaskan Brown Bear.
BTW, I don’t think Putin came out with a plan to help Obama out of a jam just out of the kindness of his heart.
But yes, I agree that he will tell us, “My promise to punish Assad for his use of chemical weapons has lead to this diplomatic breakthrough”.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/9/2013 @ 6:22 pmAnd Putin will laugh.
Do you want the joke about the elephant and the ant, or the joke about the sex game played the same way by two couples, but one couple uses donuts and the other uses Cheerios?
Aw shucks, you probably figured out the punchlines anyway.
nk (875f57) — 9/9/2013 @ 6:29 pmJohn Mcbomb,
It is actually your hero, that blood-thirsty sociopath Barack O-bomb-a whose name doesn’t even have to be bastardized to accomodate that particular play on words.
Oh, did I say, “bastardized” ?
After all, his daddy was already married to another woman at the time of Barack’s birth.
And did I say something about changing one’s name…like, from Dunham to Soetoro to O-bomb-a ?
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 9/9/2013 @ 6:46 pmHere’s my guesses regarding Obama’s Tuesday night speech:
I’d thought I’d repost the following because it to me is emblematic of just how philosophically, emotionally and socially perverse Obama truly is. His basic ineptitude and that of the people around him (which is inflamed by their ridiculous lack of common sense) has made a bad situation far worse. But I suspect what really is fueling all the absurd controversies hovering over the current White House is the defective (and strangely, perversely heartless) core of Obama himself.
Mark (58ea35) — 9/9/2013 @ 7:07 pmI think John was channeling an early courtship discussion with Teresa Heinz when he blurted this quote …..
Rodney King's Spirit (ae12ec) — 9/9/2013 @ 7:11 pmIt already happened.
I just heard a clip from earlier today with the President speaking with Wolf Blitzer.
Something to the effect that Syria would not be interested in Putin’s suggestion “had it not been for a credible threat of US military action.”
I’m sorry, I can’t take anyone serious who believes in unilateral disarmament and “leading from behind”.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/9/2013 @ 7:25 pmHere is the larger problem;
http://technologysecurity.wordpress.com/2013/09/09/cutting-off-supplies-of-nerve-gas-and-wmd-equipment/
that mo degree of self deception will mask.
narciso (3fec35) — 9/9/2013 @ 7:33 pmand teh Putin gives President Obama a beat-down with his testicles and does it with one hand tied behind his back?
Colonel Haiku (e3f2c7) — 9/9/2013 @ 7:38 pmI certainly agree we should not make it any easier than necessary for rogue nations to manufacture WMD’s, but in our global market and the world supply of smart chemists I have a hard time believing we can prevent nations from cooking things up.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/9/2013 @ 7:42 pmNope. Putin is Obama’s handler. He stepped in to save Obama from a dumb mistake that would diminish his effectiveness as a mole.
nk (875f57) — 9/9/2013 @ 7:43 pmSyria will hand over some chemical weapons, (maybe some with made in Iraq on them), Russia will say, “See, see!”, the President and Sec. Kerry will say, “Thank you. We have success”.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/9/2013 @ 7:45 pmAnd Syria will be more careful before they use them again.
I would pay like a gazillion dollars to watch Biden try to eat Cheerios with a fork.
Icy (019816) — 9/9/2013 @ 7:48 pmIf they did at all, three months ago, it would have made strategic sense, because the rebels were on the march.
narciso (3fec35) — 9/9/2013 @ 7:49 pmMD, if you can make insecticide, you can make sarin. If you can make anthrax vaccine, you can weaponize anthrax. What you need are ordnance experts to deliver and disperse them. Or just cropdusters.
It’s a genie that will never go back into the bottle. I have a friend who was a doctor in the Iranian army during the Iran-Iraq War. He treated anthrax cases on the front. We cheered Iraq on and embargoed the penicillin he needed.
nk (875f57) — 9/9/2013 @ 7:50 pmComment by MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/9/2013 @ 7:25 pm
Something to the effect that Syria would not be interested in Putin’s suggestion “had it not been for a credible threat of US military action.”
I’m sorry, I can’t take anyone serious who believes in unilateral disarmament and “leading from behind”.
I think a little birdie told Putin what might be bombed. He asked Obama, and Obama wouldn’t say he wouldn’t do it.
Sammy Finkelman (bda33a) — 9/9/2013 @ 7:53 pmThis “success” sounds like smoke and mirrors to me. Has anyone in the Obama administration ever read any spy novels or better yet even any actual world history? Being beholden to an adversary’s temporary largess usually does not end well. There is usually much much more to paying off the “favor” than initially meets the eye. If Putin ends up holding the marker to help fix Obama’s and Kerry’s screw ups with Syria, every country in the world will know how to “deal” with this very needy, incompetent administration.
elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/9/2013 @ 7:57 pmObama offered to have a sit-down and a beer with Assad, but the Syrian strongman declined the invitation on account of his religious beliefs, which allow him to ruthlessly murder women and children but not imbibe alcoholic beverages.
Colonel Haiku (e3f2c7) — 9/9/2013 @ 8:11 pmSo winning is letting Assad do the Saddam Hussein dance over getting rid of all his WMD’s for humanitarian reasons and letting the Syrian slaughter continue?
Obama thinks you are stoopid.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/9/2013 @ 8:24 pmCharlie Sheen says yes, who are we to doubt;
narciso (3fec35) — 9/9/2013 @ 8:30 pmObama thinks you are stoopid.
Comment by daleyrocks
yes, but only after careful consideration and nuanced nuancing.
Colonel Haiku (e3f2c7) — 9/9/2013 @ 8:30 pmBased on what I’ve seen and heard today, the plan is for Kerry to navigate his untaxed yacht across the Mediterranean Sea in a super-secret CIA plan to toss his hat at Latakia while Putin is distracted by Obama’s bogie on the fourth hole leading to Hillary addressing the nation about the poor to assure them that Obama is fighting for the middle-class as Bubba makes a case to the U.N. about gas attacks distracting from the implementation of Obamacare because it will result in the loss of adequate medical services for undocumented workers’ children to have union representation at preschool as Eli Manning explains why Johnny Manzeil is drinking Moet when he will lose to Alabama.
Did I miss anything?
Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 9/9/2013 @ 8:32 pm“yes, but only after careful consideration and nuanced nuancing.”
Colonel – The 100,000 plus dead Syrians killed over the past 2 1/2 years, including women and children, are obviously less dead than the comparatively small number killed in recent chemical weapons attacks.
The latter represent a humanitarian crisis. The former represent, I don’t know what, collateral damage in a struggle for democracy or something?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/9/2013 @ 8:38 pmAg8–I think you may have overlooked that Michelle’s well toned arms will probably also be a significant factor in all this. And possibly Kal Penn.
elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/9/2013 @ 8:41 pmSammy Finkelman:
This is what Obama and the Democrats are hoping people will believe.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/9/2013 @ 8:53 pmI always miss something except happy’s tasty nachos and a Vanity Fair article about Miley Cyrus’s commitment to amphibian rights. Also, why all the hate on that poor guy in that movie one time when he did that thing before committing himself to hoping and changing. That’s racist. Also, Michelle’s toned arms helped Diane Nyad kill Castro.
So there is that.
Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 9/9/2013 @ 8:55 pmI think you have the gist of it, Ag80,
narciso (3fec35) — 9/9/2013 @ 9:02 pmYes, Obama thinks we are stupid. Can you tell me one reason why he should believe otherwise?
nk (875f57) — 9/9/2013 @ 9:02 pmBy the way, Sammy, was it Obama’s “red line” or Kerry’s threat of an “unbelievably small” attack that scared Putin into doing this? They are both so terrifying that it’s hard to tell which one scared him silly.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/9/2013 @ 9:04 pmI do not believe there is any possible success.
You would have to believe that the US will do something that is more than token,
I doubt that will be true.
If the US does something more than token, why assume that Syria, Iran, and Russia will do nothing in response?
If any of them do something in response, then we will need to respond in kind to save face (again).
And even if we navigate that successfully (hard to see how that will happen), then we are faced with the possibility of tipping the balance to the jihadist cannibals.
How can that be a victory?
America lost its credibility when the Dems undercut Bush and limited his will to deal with Syria and Iran interfering with Iraq.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/9/2013 @ 9:06 pmSince then we have suffered insult after insult under Obama.
Obama is happy with us this weak, he just isn’t happy looking so bad personally.
nk: Nope. My so called conservative radio station is interviewing the beautiful and talented Jenny McCarthy tomorrow. She gets a spot on The View.
By herself, she probably has killed and maimed more children than Assad.
But, she’s pretty and on TV!
Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 9/9/2013 @ 9:10 pmIf any of you would like a review–
http://www.forbes.com/sites/merrillmatthews/2013/09/06/what-happens-when-you-cant-believe-a-thing-the-president-says/
elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/9/2013 @ 9:16 pmThis analysis from Hot Air is not bad:
http://hotair.com/archives/2013/09/09/gaffe-tastic-hillary-pretty-excited-about-kerrys-accidental-proposal-for-international-control-of-syrias-wmd-arsenal/
Several paragraphs down:
Italics and boldface mine.
The only question is: if this is like that, why were the chemical weapons used around Damascus in the first place?
It wasn’t because it was necessary to salvage the situation – it only maybe helped break a stalemate and might let Assad again control the environs around his capital. (To get Assad too di it by the way, Russian intelligence had to misrepresent the military situation. Assad pparently did it without telling his General Staff, and surprised Hezbollah and Iran. It was a sudden decision – decided maybe two weeks in advance or so.)
The seriousness of the threat to use force, and the possibility of real help to the rebels must have been unexpected.
That threat is not gone, especially if Iran or Syria wants to retaliate.
So it could be a real backtracking – just not that much.
Sammy Finkelman (d7b491) — 9/9/2013 @ 9:17 pmVictory is not an option.
The only way we can achieve victory is if Obama screws up and fails to achieve a limited, short duration tailored strike designed to achieve nothing.
If it fails and achieves something, maybe victory.
If it works as designed, we lose.
I don’t know why other people even bother to fight us.
Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/9/2013 @ 9:17 pmI only heard snippets of Obama’s interviews on NBC. (WCBS had tennis at 6:30)
One snippet was Obama talking about a vote “this week.” I thhought only thr Senate was going to vote this week, but the Hiuse next week or later. Did Obama not know this? He also sounded reconciled towards losing the vote.
The second snippet (in the 11 PM news) was Obama quoting sme anonymous president (Obama did not name him) who said “Trust, but verify.”
I guess he was hoping Democrats would not recognize that was Reagan.
Sammy Finkelman (d7b491) — 9/9/2013 @ 9:21 pm196. Merrill Matthews says in Forbes:
Oh, come on. You just have to study it more. It is usually possible to tell which is which. And he calls himself a columnist?
Most of the time he’s parsing his words so as to mislead, and from that you can deduce what’s going on, because certain possibilities would make it an outright lie.
Obama also likes lying about public issues.
Sammy Finkelman (d7b491) — 9/9/2013 @ 9:29 pmSteve57 (35dd46) — 9/9/2013 @ 9:17 pm
Victory is not an option.
Not a goal, and maybe even something to be avoided according to Obama’s strategic thinking.
The only way we can achieve victory is if Obama screws up and fails to achieve a limited, short duration tailored strike designed to achieve nothing
Hot Air indicates that may be a risk that Putin does not want to take.
Not as small a possibility as you might think.
Sammy Finkelman (d7b491) — 9/9/2013 @ 9:36 pm…was it Obama’s “red line” or Kerry’s threat of an “unbelievably small” attack that scared Putin into doing this? They are both so terrifying that it’s hard to tell which one scared him silly.
That comment made me really chuckle. Then again, the current White House is so absurd and ridiculous, that it has entered the realm of being a ready-made parody of itself.
Beyond that, my hunch is that Obama probably is finally being shaken out of his gunnin’-for-Syria stupor, which may be reflected in the speech he’s scheduled to give tomorrow. However, he’s also so damn narcissistic and self-entitled — and could easily be consciously or unconsciously using one controversy to help diminish another of his controversies and scandals — that nothing is beyond the realm of the possible with him.
Mark (58ea35) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:04 pmVictory is leaving Assad alone to eat his Cheerios and slaughter more Syrian people for humanitarian reasons!
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:06 pmThis actually was the British plan, back when they were going to join in.
That is, issue Bashir Assad an ultimatum demanding he do what Kerry today suggested.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10264658/David-Cameron-to-give-Syria-ultimatum.html
That’s exactly what Kerry proposed today:
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/504691/20130909/kerry-gives-ultimatum-assad-syria-chemical-weapons.htm
I think what will now happen is this will be put to the test. When that fails….
Sammy Finkelman (d7b491) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:14 pmAssad is not slaughtering the Syrian people. He has no reason to. Dead people don’t pay taxes. Syrian people are slaughtering Syrian people, trying to get them to pay their taxes to them.
No sympathy for the rebels. The ones which are not clients of Al Qaeda are agents of Saudi Arabia, Turkey, or Israel, and they are the ones who have opened the country’s veins, not Assad.
nk (875f57) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:14 pm203. Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:06 pm
Victory is leaving Assad alone to eat his Cheerios and slaughter more Syrian people for humanitarian reasons!
Just so long as he does not use chemical (or nuclear) weapons to do so.
I don’t think Obama really wants that as his legacy, so it’s really not goinmg to stop weith that.
Sammy Finkelman (d7b491) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:18 pm205. Comment by nk (875f57) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:14 pm
Assad is not slaughtering the Syrian people. He has no reason to. Dead people don’t pay taxes.
This is about something a little more than taxes. This is not the ancient Persian empire.
No sympathy for the rebels. The ones which are not clients of Al Qaeda are agents of Saudi Arabia, Turkey, or Israel, and they are the ones who have opened the country’s veins, not Assad.
Indeed ths did get started by trying to get Assad’s government to kill people, or at least arrest them.
The activists had a little bit of a hard time getting a spark going, but it worked when Assad’s government arrested and tortured and killed some young teenagers for anti-regime grafitti or something like that.
It’s really the same sort of strategy used by Martin Luther King in the United States.
Sammy Finkelman (d7b491) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:25 pmBaader-Meinhof, too. The KLA in Kosovo. Blow up some police stations, kill a few cops, provoke reaction to provoke insurgency.
It can be done in reverse. In 1945 the Greek communists put away their guns and started winning elections. The government sent death squads after them. The communists dug out their guns and took to the mountains, giving the government the excuse to hunt them down and exterminate them. (On this piece of history, I know what I am talking about.)
nk (875f57) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:33 pmAssad does have a reason to slaughter parts of the Syrian people.
In some places, and that includes the suburbs of Damascus that have been outside his control for one year, his regime now is bitterly hated, and can never be willingly or even resignedly accepted as the government, and that will continue in the next generation.
There are places that now cannot reasonably be expected to accept his rule, so Russian policy probably would be to advise killing all the epeople living there.
Stalin deported ethnic groups he didn’t trust, but this is a little bit simpler and faster and less expensive and requires fewer loyalists and in general causes less trouble, at least if the numbers killed are a small fracion of the population being ruled.
Assad maybe wouldn’t accept that advice – so he had to be convinced the chemical attack was necessary to ward off the end.
Sammy Finkelman (d7b491) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:33 pm208. Comment by nk (875f57) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:33 pm
Baader-Meinhof, too. The KLA in Kosovo. Blow up some police stations, kill a few cops, provoke reaction to provoke insurgency.
But that didn’t work.
It all depends on the nature of the regime.
And what was done to provoke it there in Syria wss deliberately non-violent. That was the whole point: That what the regime did would by no stretch of the imagination be justified or even explicable as reasonable.
It just took advantage of the regime’s nature, which they knew.
Sammy Finkelman (d7b491) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:37 pmBaader-Meinhof didn’t work; Kosovo was a revolutionary’s dream. Clinton wagged the Lewinski, we became the KLA’s air force, and Kosovo is now an independent nation.
nk (875f57) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:40 pmIt can be done in reverse. In 1945 the Greek communists put away their guns and started winning elections. The government sent death squads after them. The communists dug out their guns and took to the mountains, giving the government the excuse to hunt them down and exterminate them. (On this piece of history, I know what I am talking about.)
It’s not like the Communists ever tolerated opposition once they were in the overall government.
I don’t really know how this got started. I assumed this was something like Yugoslavia where teh guuns were never put away..
The same thing did not happen in northern Italy where there were Communist partisans so it sounds like it could be there never would have been anything. It’s probably not that simple, or else the Egyotian government woukld have started a massive revolt by the Moslem Brotherhood already.
Sammy Finkelman (d7b491) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:45 pmThat what the regime did would by no stretch of the imagination be justified or even explicable as reasonable.
Hmm. Which Arabs do you believe — the government Arabs or the Syrian Arabs, both as to the relative peacefulness of the protest and the violence of the reaction? Did the Shah keep lions that the SAVAK fed dissidents to? Did we ever find the plastic shredder that Douay fed Iraqi dissidents into?
nk (875f57) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:45 pmEdited for brevity, accuracy and to make it an honest statement.
redc1c4 (abd49e) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:50 pm*the government Arabs or the rebel Arabs*
nk (875f57) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:53 pm211. Comment by nk (875f57) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:40 pm
Kosovo is now an independent nation.
But not the horrible dictatorship it might have become (because of a tremendous amount of foreign intervention.)
If nobody’s fighting, and ther are no neighboring countries arming people and creating fighting, that’s not a problem.
There just won’t be any armed groups after a while, even criminal ones.
Criminal ones are more easily destroyed than people are ready to admit – there was one destroyed not so long ago in Jamaica, and nothing has arisen to take its place.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Coke
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/18/world/americas/jamaica-fights-to-break-grip-of-violent-past.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
Sammy Finkelman (d7b491) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:54 pm“Assad is not slaughtering the Syrian people. He has no reason to. Dead people don’t pay taxes. Syrian people are slaughtering Syrian people”
nk – What the hell are you talking about? Assad is Syrian. His army is Syrian. Watch videos of his army killing people. Q.E.D.
There are also non-Syrians fighting for Assad’s side. Ignore them.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/9/2013 @ 11:03 pmComment by nk (875f57) — 9/9/2013 @ 10:45 pm
That what the regime did would by no stretch of the imagination be justified or even explicable as reasonable.
Hmm. Which Arabs do you believe — the government Arabs or the Syrian Arabs, both as to the relative peacefulness of the protest and the violence of the reaction?
I think this story came from people who were not originally rebels. There was no dispute aboit what happened.
Residents and family members point out that it was the arrest and torture last March of more than a dozen schoolchildren in Dara’a for scribbling graffiti critical of President Bashar al-Assad that sparked the uprising against the Syrian regime.
Nobody did things like that in Syria – scribble grafitti critical of the government. The Arab spring gave people hope – or enabled some activists to convince young teenagers – that they could get away with it.
And the fact of the matter this was what the regime was like – that’s why it was in power for 40 years.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/09/world/middleeast/09iht-m09-syria-jordan.html?pagewanted=all (Feb 8, 2012)
Daraa is in the far south of the country. Did this truly start the revolt? I suspect there’s more to the stiry. How did it spread to other loci. Was it all Facebook and Twitter?
Anyway, TIME Magazine in 2011 said it started there also: (I should correct what I said to non-violent agaimst people)
http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2060788,00.html
Smething happened later on:
http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2076778,00.html (June, 2011)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ17pd6gQcI
I think protests were tried in several places, but maybe only in Daraa it bore real fruit.
They were trying to get the regime to do what it was capable of doing, following which there would be military defections etc..
Sammy Finkelman (d7b491) — 9/9/2013 @ 11:13 pmDid the Shah keep lions that the SAVAK fed dissidents to?
I never heard that story
What the Shah did do, by the fall of 1979, was shoot people every day they marched in a funeral procession to bury the people shot the previous time.
Did we ever find the plastic shredder that Douay fed Iraqi dissidents into?
What I did hear was that Uday Hussein found a website that described mediveal torture and decided to try those things out.
Some stories you read and hear from time to time are true, and some are not true, but the stories about Syria are all true. For many years there probably was a lot less going on, because the regime was settled in place.
Sammy Finkelman (d7b491) — 9/9/2013 @ 11:17 pm217. Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/9/2013 @ 11:03 pm
There are also non-Syrians fighting for Assad’s side.
That’s right! He doesn’t have too many Syrians on his side. He may now have an elite militia that’s been created with the help of Iran, still he really needs Hezbollah.
Sammy Finkelman (d7b491) — 9/9/2013 @ 11:19 pm219. I mean the fall of 1978. (was when the Shah’s police or military One or the other was shooting people.)
The same tactics had been tried out by the PLO on the West Bank in 1976, but Israel didn’t bite. So the demonstrations eventually came to an end.
We’ve now completely forgotten about what could be called the Zeroth intifada.
Sammy Finkelman (d7b491) — 9/9/2013 @ 11:26 pm“That’s right! He doesn’t have too many Syrians on his side.”
nk and Sammy – Does Assad give the non-Syrians planes, helicopter gunships and heavy artillery?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/10/2013 @ 12:07 am“It can’t be any stupider than promising an unbelievably small attack on Syria.”
Yeah, going into a war stating that you have no intention of winning is about as dumb as it gets.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 9/10/2013 @ 12:07 amMy point, daleyrocks, is that it’s the rebels who are the cause of the mutual carnage. If you think that their struggle is legitimate, then you should be supporting any aid Obama wants to give them. I think they’re a bunch of self-seeking, murderous, treasonous butchers, and the sooner Assad puts them down the better off ordinary Syrians will be, and that we should not help them in any way.
nk (875f57) — 9/10/2013 @ 12:12 amAnd, hell yeah, Assad is and has been Hezbollah’s armorer and quartermaster. Why do you think Isreal wants to destabilize Syria? Because of the Golan Heights? No, because Hezbollah has been the staunchest enemy Israel has met since 1949.
nk (875f57) — 9/10/2013 @ 12:19 amIt just won’t do to leave Hezbollah’s armorer in power in Syria.
We need to support the opposition forces. Then, later, we can find out who’s in it.
I believe Sun Tzu or Bismarck once said something along those lines.
Steve57 (c3a2f8) — 9/10/2013 @ 12:36 amComment by Steve57 (c3a2f8) — 9/10/2013 @ 12:36 am
It just won’t do to leave Hezbollah’s armorer in power in Syria.
We need to support the opposition forces. Then, later, we can find out who’s in it.
I believe Sun Tzu or Bismarck once said something along those lines.
Well, Nancy Pelosi did so, anyway.
We just have to face up to something: there needs to be two wars. Not a problem, if you know that.
The al Qaeda people will be easier to deal with anyway, and they won’t go away anyway if Assad stays.
Sammy Finkelman (af3697) — 9/10/2013 @ 1:05 am225. Comment by nk (875f57) — 9/10/2013 @ 12:19 am
And, hell yeah, Assad is and has been Hezbollah’s armorer and quartermaster. Why do you think Isreal wants to destabilize Syria? Because of the Golan Heights? No, because Hezbollah has been the staunchest enemy Israel has met since 1949.
Israel actually has been kind of undecided about Syria, although getting rid of the backer of Hezbollah is abog pro. \
Till Monday the Israeli Ambassador to the United states was telling members of Congress, don’t NOT DO THIS to protect us (from retaliation)
He said something like “we could defend/take care of ourselves” This is partially traditional secular Zionist self-reliance (whether it actualy is true or not) partially overconfidence and partially a reliance on anti-missile systems, one of which was tested out I think on Monday in a joint U.S-Israeli exercises and the Russians who were watching this – they warn Syria – thought maybe a missile attack had been launched against Syria, because this test was a surprise to them.
On Monday Israel got behind the resolution, although this may have been at Obama’s personal request (to Netanyahu, who’s the only Israeli official discussing this or was)
Netanyahu had the previous week ordered all Israeli diplomats to stay silent. He didn’t want to blamed by Syria for any attack. They get blamed anyway, they don’t need to add fuel. The Israeli Foreign Minister, head of the Yisroel Beteinu Party, had earlier had earlier said somethuing about not wanting to be drawn into the maelstorm of Arab politics, and each important political figure had his own position. Netanyahu told them not to try to be heroes.
There’s also the fact Israel would like the U.s. to act, or get results from credibly threaten, Iran.
Sammy Finkelman (af3697) — 9/10/2013 @ 1:23 amComment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/10/2013 @ 12:07 am
nk and Sammy – Does Assad give the non-Syrians planes, helicopter gunships and heavy artillery?
Definitely artillery. Hezbollah did most of the fighting in Qusayr (sp?) also antiaircraft and missiles.
He probably has more (he hopes reliable and skilled) pilots than planes and helicopters.
We might possibly in the future see Russians piloting things like I think they once did in Egypt. Russians are maybe the only non-Syrian substitutes that would mean any improvement.
Obama talked in general terms about how small the Syrian military is so that a small attack attack is really abig one in Syria. More playing with words.
Sammy Finkelman (af3697) — 9/10/2013 @ 1:30 amComment by Dave Surls (46b08c) — 9/10/2013 @ 12:07 am
Yeah, going into a war stating that you have no intention of winning is about as dumb as it gets.
It’s supposed to be punishment for using chemical weapons, but not the death penalty. More like a $100 fine. The proof that it is enough will be that it doesn’t happen again.
Of course, Assad does not believe there is no intention to of tilting the balance of power which is the only thing that makes sense as a “punishment.”
Sammy Finkelman (af3697) — 9/10/2013 @ 1:33 amI’m just guessing about the helicopters, planes and pilots.
Assad also has conscripts, some of who have been sent to Iran for training.
He probably has Iranian officers over parts of his army.
Sammy Finkelman (af3697) — 9/10/2013 @ 1:55 amI may not have a chance to listen t Obama;s speech tonight.
Sammy Finkelman (af3697) — 9/10/2013 @ 1:56 amYou could not pay me to listen to that racist, American hating, muzzie loving homo.
mg (31009b) — 9/10/2013 @ 2:39 am“My point, daleyrocks, is that it’s the rebels who are the cause of the mutual carnage.”
nk – If that was your point, why didn’t you state it as your point in stead of saying Assad is not slaughtering Syrians. Of course he is killing Syrians, in response to attacks and in trying to wipe out rebels. The answer is obvious. Instead you make a diffrent point bass ackwards and fickle Finkelman latches on. Suh-weet!
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/10/2013 @ 8:40 am233. I’d do most anything for a good wage these days. But I might ask to be muzzled, hog-tied on a paint drop tarp to fulfill the terms of the contract.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/10/2013 @ 8:54 am“Slaughter” has both a denotative and connotative meaning. I used it more properly, in both of those meanings, than you did.
nk (875f57) — 9/10/2013 @ 9:29 am““Slaughter” has both a denotative and connotative meaning. I used it more properly, in both of those meanings, than you did.”
nk – Complete BS. Retreating into Milhousian word parsing are you? I consider the denotive meaning of slaughtering Syrian people to be shelling or bombing a neighborhood suspected of harboring rebels. Since a connotative meaning is more vasgue, having a goal of wiping out pockets of rebel resistance suffices.
References to the tax paying ability of Syrians has nothing to do with the denotive or connotative meaning of slaughter. Plus, if they are anything like Greeks, they pay squat in taxes anyway.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/10/2013 @ 10:10 amAnd there I thought you meant the Syrian government hockey team was undefeated against the rebel hockey team for the season. Dang.
nk (875f57) — 9/10/2013 @ 10:31 amRespectfully, absolutely not — Al Qaeda and other Jihadist elements are in the rebel forces. We do not need “later” to figure that out, we know that is already the case. Both sides are our enemy. Both have spilled American blood. Both treat atrocities like we treat football — as a sport to excel in.
And they are both fighting each other — an enemy divided makes the strategy is obvious.
The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/10/2013 @ 12:56 pm— Sun Tzu
PA, you know that you can count the wars China has won against a foreign enemy on only the Arabic numeral system, right? (Concept of zero.)
nk (875f57) — 9/10/2013 @ 4:28 pmSammy… You be too busy typing to listen to the Chief Prevaricator
Colonel Haiku (819c71) — 9/10/2013 @ 4:40 pmnk — Yes, you are correct. Yet, here they are, owning our debt and making us jump through hoops with North Korea.
Oh, and the fact that there is a North Korea; weird that 😉
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/10/2013 @ 5:08 pmMan walks horse into bar sez “I’d like drinks for me and the Secretary of State”. Bartender refuses, sez “we don’t serve Democrats”.
Colonel Haiku (fd6a88) — 9/10/2013 @ 5:09 pmAnd here they are, indeed. Holding their heads up out of the mud for the first time in centuries while we …. we have our Sprite, we have our Orange Crush. Maybe there is something in that Great Wheel Taoist stuff.
nk (875f57) — 9/10/2013 @ 5:46 pm241.Comment by Colonel Haiku (819c71) — 9/10/2013 @ 4:40 pm
Sammy… You be too busy typing to listen to the Chief Prevaricator
Actually i did get a chance to listen to it – the probklem this time wasn’t typing – since it was on at 9 PM startiung at about 9:01:30, and the election was over. I had a radio. And I didn’t have much or anything to do. Maybe a little later but I’d stopped listening anyway.
I didn’t know before what time the speech would start. I think I could have listened to it any time after 7 pm, given where I was.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 9/11/2013 @ 3:41 pm