Patterico's Pontifications

There was a prima facie case, Patterico.

nk (875f57) — 7/26/2013 @ 7:45 am

Yes, she followed the law. Whatever speculations she may have had beyond the evidence, she followed the evidence and she followed the law.

If she feels the law sometimes allows the guilty to go free in favor of the presumption of innocence, well, she’s American enough for me, and she did her duty.

Sarahw (b0e533) — 7/26/2013 @ 7:55 am

I actually don’t find her position to be that odd. It appears to me that she believed that Zimmerman was guilty by a preponderance of the evidence, but not beyond reasonable doubt. It’s a legitimate position.

A.S. (23bc66) — 7/26/2013 @ 7:59 am

They all felt Z was guilty – but they had to follow the law – which they didn’t by the way, the jury is the law, and that point didn’t sink home.

Watch in the next weeks and months more is going to come out….

EPWJ (1cedce) — 7/26/2013 @ 8:02 am

EPWJ, you COULD keep it all inside, ya know.

Icy (ea303f) — 7/26/2013 @ 8:15 am

Here’s what I think she’s saying: Our emotions told us to feel Zimmerman was guilty but the facts kept getting in the way.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 7/26/2013 @ 8:18 am

6, DRJ, Maddy’s initial prejudice, if not racism, said GZ was guilty. God help us if we are going to be judged by the mob and not the evidence and law.

I have been a security guard. You are not looking at race, but inappropriate behavior. Martin was not demonstrating appropriate behavior for the area and the weather. I’d called the cops and watched where he went until the Police arrived. That’s another problem in the US, long wait time for the cops to show up.

PCD (1d8b6d) — 7/26/2013 @ 8:23 am

ignorance is bliss, and she’s one of the happy people that surround us, along with geniuses like alphabet.

this case never should have gone to trial to begin with: GZ should have been given a civic award and sent on his way with the thanks of a grateful populace.

redc1c4 (abd49e) — 7/26/2013 @ 8:29 am

The trial was all just “a publicity stunt”, says she.

ABC keeping it alive, bless their shriveled, dessicated hearts.

Colonel Haiku (45c014) — 7/26/2013 @ 8:31 am

Zimmerman was/is guilty of killing another human being.
But, he was not guilty of murder.
He defended himself from an attack by another, and was in fear for his life.
The last time I looked, they called that Justifiable Homicide –
which is what the local authorities put it down as until over-ruled by the politicians courtesy of the media-generated witch-hunt.

askeptic (b8ab92) — 7/26/2013 @ 8:36 am

Sorry to waste bandwidth on EPWJ, but his comment was too idiotic to ignore. The jury is not the law. The jury instructions are the law. Four decades’ worth of convictions are being reversed in Connecticut because the jury instructions stated they were advisory and not mandatory. The jury is not an organized lynch mob.

nk (875f57) — 7/26/2013 @ 8:39 am

She doesn’t understand that she is part of the publicity stunt.

htom (412a17) — 7/26/2013 @ 8:42 am

Her fellow jurors said, show us – show us the evidence. And there was nothing for her to show.

Sarahw (b0e533) — 7/26/2013 @ 8:43 am

Is it possible she is trying to cover herself from push-back by friends and radicals when her identity comes out?

roy in nipomo (160066) — 7/26/2013 @ 8:50 am

We’ll be doomed, not by maliciousness, but by an army of idiots.

DejectedHead (a094a6) — 7/26/2013 @ 8:50 am

Wherever Maddy went to school, Logic and Critical Thinking were not in the cirriculum:

“For myself, he’s guilty because the evidence shows he’s guilty,” the juror said.

But the juror, a 36-year-old mother of eight who moved to Florida from Chicago five months before she was selected for the trial, says the panel had no choice but to acquit Zimmerman, based on the law and evidence.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/juror-b29-george-zimmerman-murder-article-1.1408913#ixzz2aAQ5Jt8G

She said she doubted that the case should have been brought to trial, calling it a “publicity stunt.” But once it was, she said, the lack of evidence and Florida law left the jury no choice but to acquit. http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-george-zimmerman-juror-b29-20130725,0,3330582.story

May I never be judged by someone like this.

The Strategic MC (09cc33) — 7/26/2013 @ 8:52 am

“…were not in the curriculum.

The Strategic MC (09cc33) — 7/26/2013 @ 8:54 am

“Is it possible she is trying to cover herself from push-back by friends and radicals when her identity comes out?”

Exactly, although why she would go on TV to make it easier for the LIV types to find her is a bit odd. They won’t care what she said in her own defense.

Mike K (dc6ffe) — 7/26/2013 @ 8:56 am

EPWJ,

You keep on arguing that Zimmerman is guilty of murder, but you haven’t even begun to address the arguments for innocence.

1) People are followed all of the time. I see people behind me all the time, including some suspicious characters. The proper response is be on a higher state of alertness, and be prepared to tell the guy to back off. Following is not justification for the use of force.

2) The dispatcher was not giving orders, according to his own testimony.

3) There is no evidence that Zimmerman began the fight. The only injuries on Martin were damage to the hands and the gunshot, while there is ample documentation of Zimmerman’s injuries.

Let me put it to you very plainly. I have a multiracial nephew who looks black. He’s a great kid, and I love him dearly. I would rather have him encounter Zimmerman on a dark night than a randomly selected person from the US.

I’m giving you one more chance to actually make a case. If you can’t do that, I’m going to ignore response you make here.

OmegaPaladin (833eff) — 7/26/2013 @ 9:01 am

“…why she would go on TV…”?

FOR THE MONEY!

askeptic (b8ab92) — 7/26/2013 @ 9:08 am

May I never be judged by someone like this.

Comment by The Strategic MC (09cc33) — 7/26/2013 @ 8:52 am

She did fine, just fine. If you want to blame anyone for her confusion, blame the ****ing media and the ****ing prosecution.

nk (875f57) — 7/26/2013 @ 9:09 am

Patterico has duly noted:
In other words: Looking for clues to our country’s racial divisions from people so minimally informed that they made it onto this jury is not exactly a recipe for enlightenment. Giving Delphic props to someone who initially voted for murder on a case this weak is not my idea of a good plan either.

I’m reminded of the Kurosawa film Rashomon, in which a single event with no less than four eyewitnesses nevertheless contains four different versions of what transpired.

Note: This person, being the sole minority on the jury, contrasts with the first jurors post-trial interviews on how it went down behind the scenes. The first juror only thought he was guilty of something but that he had an absolute right to defend himself. This one doesn’t even seem to grant Zim that concession.

One would tend to wonder if this “maddy” juror is angling for a book deal in which she tells of her inner trials, inward struggles and heartfelt doubts regarding whether or not to vote for an acquittal or to convict.

One truly, truly, has to honestly wonder: If there had been fewer whites and more minorities on the jury, would Zimmerman today be a free man? If the OJ trial is a useful guide (and to some degree it is) then we have to assume that no, he would not be a free man today.

Yes, this time they followed the law. What about the next time. But clearly this juror is going to get a book contract.

Kenneth Simmons (6f8eca) — 7/26/2013 @ 9:10 am

PCD,

I’m thinking about this from the standpoint of jury dynamics. I suspect this juror would have let her emotions sway her final verdict but some of the other jurors kept that from happening. However, if there had been enough emotional jurors in the jury room, there would have been a hung jury or they might have found Zimmerman guilty. What interests me is how many emotional jurors does it take to make that happen?

DRJ (a83b8b) — 7/26/2013 @ 9:11 am

Mike K – too many people can’t pass up their chance for 15 minutes of fame. It also tends to cloud their judgement of consequences of said “fame.”

roy in nipomo (160066) — 7/26/2013 @ 9:11 am

Saying GZ is guilty of murder, even though the evidence and case law don’t support that assertion is kinda like saying “Yellow Submarine” and “The Blue Danube Waltz” are the same song, except for the music and lyrics…

elaine (93972a) — 7/26/2013 @ 9:13 am

However, if there had been enough emotional jurors in the jury room, there would have been a hung jury or they might have found Zimmerman guilty. What interests me is how many emotional jurors does it take to make that happen?

Translation: If there had been more minority jurors, how would the vote have gone down? Judging from her, it is becoming quite clear indeed.

Kenneth Simmons (6f8eca) — 7/26/2013 @ 9:14 am

DRJ, I know one case for sure where one woman turned the other eleven jurors around in the death penalty phase of a not slam-dunk death penalty case. Not death, natural life. She spoke about it afterward and she felt that her most persuasive argument was that she was not going to budge, there would be a hung jury, and the next jury might acquit the defendant altogether. This lady was willing to budge. Good for her.

nk (875f57) — 7/26/2013 @ 9:17 am

That’s true, nk. I also wonder if she’s saying this now because she doesn’t want to be a target of an anti-Zimmerman backlash.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 7/26/2013 @ 9:27 am

EPWJ, you COULD keep it all inside, ya know.

Or at least drop it in the toilet, where it belongs.

Rob Crawford (e6f27f) — 7/26/2013 @ 9:28 am

She wanted her 5 minutes of fame but didn’t want to be threatened by the loonies.

Jim (823b10) — 7/26/2013 @ 9:29 am

I think that emotions are the biggest argument for the twelve member jury, increasing the odds of empaneling (impaneling?) a rational juror.

htom (412a17) — 7/26/2013 @ 9:34 am

I agree, htom.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 7/26/2013 @ 9:41 am

“impaneling”

Icy (ea303f) — 7/26/2013 @ 9:48 am

What interests me is how many emotional jurors does it take to make that happen?
Comment by DRJ (a83b8b) — 7/26/2013 @ 9:11 am

All it takes for Evil to triumph is for Good Men (and/or Women) to do nothing.

askeptic (b8ab92) — 7/26/2013 @ 9:55 am

‘She said she doubted that the case should have been brought to trial, calling it a “publicity stunt.” ‘

OK. Robin did not seem to ask: Hung at sunrise or never charged?
Because it seems to me that all stunts pulled by the defense are simply responses to the original stunt pulled by the State, so I’d like to know what she is trying to say. Seems important.

Zimmerman as a Catholic realizes the spiritual consequences homicide can carry and he mentioned as much already to the first female officer to arrive at the scene.

They still keep driving home the “Florida law” angle, but I think the real angle is that juries in other states that have self defense laws might have felt compelled to flip into an “Activists for Trayvon” chapter

SteveG (794291) — 7/26/2013 @ 10:01 am

This woman’s emotions are clearly still telling her to offer something to Martins family in order to soothe the pain of their loss. T
She is emotionally and factually stuck at: Trayvon is dead, Zimmerman killed him.
But she overcame that and looked at rest of the evidence and the law and did the right thing by it regardless to whatever her emotions were screaming at her.

SteveG (794291) — 7/26/2013 @ 10:20 am

No commenters, tt’s not ‘right’ for a juror to label a man a murderer when she agreed with the others that the evidence to convict didn’t exist. Even SHE admitted that the case should never have gone to trial. She said she thought it was a ‘show trial’ and then gets on national TV and from her lofty perch (one of the jurors) proclaims that, indeed, Zimmerman is a murderer.

I hope Z’s lawyers can find grounds for defamation and sue her sorry, dunderheaded a–.

Frank (167bb8) — 7/26/2013 @ 10:27 am

The bottom line is the Left is trying to use the Martin case to end the right of self defense, and advance the right of criminals to commit their crimes with impunity.

PCD (1d8b6d) — 7/26/2013 @ 10:28 am

Quite frankly, I thought she was a great juror. Trayvon Martin is dead, and she believed that George Zimmerman should be held responsible for that, but her fellow jurors and she sat down, looked at what the law actually was, and came up with the only verdict they could, under the law.

The Dana who never served on a jury (3e4784) — 7/26/2013 @ 10:29 am

i’ll say this again, for the willfully dense amongst us.

there are four kinds of homicide:

felonious AKA murder

actionable AKA manslaughter

justifiable AKA self-defense

praiseworthy AKA civic improvement or, in Texas “he needed killing”

GZ putting a cap into St Thug Life falls into categories 3 & 4, and anyone who says otherwise is a mendoucheous twatwaffle.

redc1c4 (abd49e) — 7/26/2013 @ 10:31 am

There was a prima facie case, Patterico.

Well she disagrees.

she also thinks that the trial was a “publicity stunt” by the prosecution and never should have happened

So yeah, to her mind Zimmerman clearly got away with murder not just manslaughter, and there was so little evidence for that the prosecution should not have brought forward the case.

But she’s sure of it! So savage his reputation because feelings.

Former Conservative (6e026c) — 7/26/2013 @ 10:32 am

Re: post #38… YES!

I would only add that the 0bama administration/ Holder DOJ and the MSM are also using this to promote racial division and to re-visit the 2012 gin-up of their usual low-information voter demographic.

Colonel Haiku (45c014) — 7/26/2013 @ 10:37 am

i was on a jury once, for a domestic violence case.

the People presented no useful testimony, and the victim denied the event under oath.

when we went to deliberations, half the jury wanted to convict the guy, because they were sure he’d done it.

the other half, including me, said, no, they didn’t prove anything. we can believe that’s likely what happened, but they didn’t prove anything. as i put it: “would you want to be sent off to prison on this garbage?”

the six out to railroad the defendant never bugged, but, fortunately for him, neither did my side, so, after hours of deliberation, we went back in and reported that we were hopelessly hung.

on the way out the door, the public defender asked for feedback, and i told him he was lucky the prosecution hadn’t produced any evidence. he got mad at me because he thought he’d done a great j*b when in reality the only thing that saved his client was a weak prosecution.

redc1c4 (abd49e) — 7/26/2013 @ 10:39 am

Then, Benjamin Mueller at the ~~LA Times~~ Dog Trainer makes it about race:

The only minority member of the six-woman jury that acquitted George Zimmerman said Thursday that Zimmerman “got away with murder” and that she aches for Trayvon Martin’s grieving parents, ABC News reports.
….

A 36-year-old nursing assistant and mother of eight, Juror 29B was the only minority on the all-female jury. She is Puerto Rican.

She admits there was not enough evidence to convict on 2nd degree murder, so how, in all her fertile and infinite wisdom, did Zimmerman get away with something that there was not enough evidence for?

ratbeach (f5aad4) — 7/26/2013 @ 10:40 am

#38 & #40….
Yes!

We can look to Detroit, and Chicago, for the results of not holding thugs responsible for their actions.
The Governments in those two cities have only a slight margin of control over the streets within the city boundaries – and in some areas, they have none at all.

askeptic (b8ab92) — 7/26/2013 @ 10:42 am

Comment by ratbeach (f5aad4) — 7/26/2013 @ 10:40 am

But…but…I thought the jury was all minority since women are the second-most aggrieved minority in the country.

askeptic (b8ab92) — 7/26/2013 @ 10:44 am

She performed the only duty she had to Zimmerman properly. She has no duty to shill for him.

nk (875f57) — 7/26/2013 @ 11:03 am

The bottom line is the Left is trying to use the Martin case to end the right of self defense, and advance the right of criminals to commit their crimes with impunity.

Comment by PCD (1d8b6d) — 7/26/2013 @ 10:28 am

Its more about gun control and making people afraid to use deadly force even when justified.

The irony is, the persons who suffered most under “duty to retreat” and are most likely to need to use self defense against an attacker who happens to be black, are themselves black.

Duty to flee was being used unevenly, too, against persons who had otherwise done no wrong in the present instance but who had criminal records or associations.

And duty to flee had been extended to unreasonable lengths to discourage ownership, let alone use of deadly force (guns in particular). You had a duty, in some places, to injure yourelf to flee, and a need to be backed into a corner and seriously hurt before your use of deadly force to protect yourself could be excused.

Sarahw (b0e533) — 7/26/2013 @ 11:04 am

Then, Benjamin Mueller at the LA Times Dog Trainer makes it about race:

The only minority member of the six-woman jury ….

It probably is.

Former Conservative (6e026c) — 7/26/2013 @ 11:06 am

She’s an Hispanic. If this were really about race, wouldn’t she be on Zimmerman’s side?

DRJ (a83b8b) — 7/26/2013 @ 11:09 am

50, no, GZ’s sin is that his father is white and GZ doesn’t hate or kill him, according to minority victimology thinking.

If GZ were hispanic, he wouldn’t use the white dude’s name but he’d use his mother’s maiden name.

IDIOTS!!!

I like my niece saying, “blah, blah, blah!” in response to her illegal alien father trying to make her speak Spanish as her first language.

PCD (1d8b6d) — 7/26/2013 @ 11:34 am

This juror is one of the low information voters who is harming our country.
How can she believe that GZ “got away with murder” if she admits the facts don’t show he committed murder ?

I think too many people conflate the word “murder” with “kill.”

GZ killed Trayvon Martin—he admits that. But he did it in self-defense—not an act of murder.

Anyhow, the number of stupid low information people in this country is ~~killing~~ murdering me !

Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 7/26/2013 @ 11:35 am

@ #50: not if she identifies as “black”…

redc1c4 (abd49e) — 7/26/2013 @ 11:38 am

She identifies as Puerto Rican from Chicago. The “black hispanic” is from the media crapheads.

nk (875f57) — 7/26/2013 @ 11:42 am

She admits there was not enough evidence to convict on 2nd degree murder, so how, in all her fertile and infinite wisdom, did Zimmerman get away with something that there was not enough evidence for?
Comment by ratbeach (f5aad4) — 7/26/2013 @ 10:40 am

— It’s a variant of the O.J. trial philosophy: “We know he did it, but the prosecution failed to prove that he did it.”

Icy (ea303f) — 7/26/2013 @ 11:43 am

Feelings…Nothing More than Feelings… (1974 Feelings by Louis Gaste)
She followed the law but she wants the world to know that she is still a liberal at heart and that she has feelings.

TheHat (58d08b) — 7/26/2013 @ 11:53 am

I got the idea that she was confusing the terms of ‘murder’ and ‘killing’ and moral blame vs. legal blame.

George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin. We know that. He admitted it freely and repeatedly to police. A killing occurred.

Neither a ‘murder’ nor a ‘manslaughter’ occurred.

George Zimmerman ‘got away with’ killing Trayvon Martin, if you call his year-long and future ordeals ‘getting away with.’

There wasn’t a murder so he didn’t get away with that.

luagha (5cbe06) — 7/26/2013 @ 12:03 pm

As the Wall Street Journal’s Best of the Web notes, sometimes life imitates the Onion.

Except that the “editorial” in the Onion by Juror E6 makes more sense:

But thanks to these dumb-as-dog-s??t laws, while the defense had to introduce some evidence that George Zimmerman acted in self-defense, they didn’t actually have to completely convince us of it.

All they had to do, according to the undoubtedly moronic but explicitly written Florida statutes, was create a “reasonable doubt” as to whether he acted in self-defense.

Does that make sense to me? Absolutely not. But I was put in the position to decide whether the prosecution was able to present a case that proved that George Zimmerman was not acting in self-defense when he shot and killed Trayvon Martin. And based on the guidelines, which all of us thought were pretty ludicrous and sort of made us question the entire U.S. justice system, the prosecution didn’t do it.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 7/26/2013 @ 12:07 pm

You get the feeling she completely believed the Trayvon Martin family sequence of events. Maybe she had it wrong when she thought you needed proof positive that it was not self-defense. No, it would only have to be, all things considered, an unreasonable assertion.

Of course all the evidence was the other way.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 7/26/2013 @ 12:09 pm

I think that Barack Obama is guilty of a lot of things, but I can’t prove eitehr.

And even if I could, the Dems in the Senate would never convict.

Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 7/26/2013 @ 12:14 pm

But…but…I thought the jury was all minority since women are the second-most aggrieved minority in the country.
Comment by askeptic (b8ab92) — 7/26/2013 @ 10:44 am

— 1945 was the last year where men outnumbered women in this country (thank you, baby boom!).

Icy (ea303f) — 7/26/2013 @ 12:15 pm

For some good news, Ariel Castro pleaded guilty, will get life without parole.

nk (875f57) — 7/26/2013 @ 12:17 pm

We actually already heard this story from another juror. The first vote was one for murder, two for manslaughter and three not guilty.

But the ones who said not guilty convinced the others there just wasn’t any evidence to say guilty.

This brings up another point.

The jury wasn’t so solid on the facts. Still, they weren’t so off, that they wound up with the wrong decision.

Twelve jurors would have been better than six, because then you might miss the person who would see the point, or there’d be fewer people who would at the start.

And it really helped that this jury was sequestered.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 7/26/2013 @ 12:18 pm

I’m glad she had her lawyer with her. Lawyers are this season’s Chihuahuas. Maybe one of the random Kardashians will start accessorizing with a copy of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. It could happen…

Fabi (0b15ff) — 7/26/2013 @ 12:49 pm

61, nk, only until a Democrat captures the Governor’s office, then for the right bribe, Castro will be freed. Unless the Dem. Gov. believes Castro is a relative of Fidel, then Ariel will go free for free.

PCD (1d8b6d) — 7/26/2013 @ 1:07 pm

I think her statements show that the victim/entitlement mindset is deeply ingrained in her. I think she really believes that GZ murdered Trayvon because she has been indoctrinated to believe that is what whites want to do to minorities. She is probably upset that the law prevented her from following that indoctrination and finding GZ guilty because after all, the law was written by white people wasn’t it?

She is proof of the subset in our society that has been fostered by the Sharptons and Jacksons and believes that society at large is prejudiced against them at every turn. That you are single mother of 8 children has nothing to do with your station in life, it is still all whitey’s fault.

Thresheman (aa8dc8) — 7/26/2013 @ 1:16 pm

Comment by Icy (ea303f) — 7/26/2013 @ 11:43 am

If the glove don’t fit, you must acquit!

askeptic (b8ab92) — 7/26/2013 @ 1:16 pm

Comment by Icy (ea303f) — 7/26/2013 @ 12:15 pm

But….Title IX!

askeptic (b8ab92) — 7/26/2013 @ 1:18 pm

Comment by PCD (1d8b6d) — 7/26/2013 @ 1:07 pm

I would not bet on the political future of any OH Gov that released Castro, just as no CA Gov who released Manson (or Sirhan) would be safe (politically or otherwise) in this state.

askeptic (b8ab92) — 7/26/2013 @ 1:21 pm

Castro was inspired by the Founding Fathers. Or something.
Oh wait. That was Ho Chi Mihn.

Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 7/26/2013 @ 1:29 pm

Comment by Thresheman (aa8dc8) — 7/26/2013 @ 1:16 pm

That you are single mother of 8 children has nothing to do with your station in life, it is still all whitey’s fault.

No, she’s married and works as a nurse for Alzheimers’ patients. nk thinks he might know her from Chicago.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 7/26/2013 @ 1:32 pm

if she’s 36, and a mother of 8, she hasn’t been w*rking all that much. more time out on maternity leave and family time than on the clock would be my guess.

redc1c4 (abd49e) — 7/26/2013 @ 1:44 pm

68, I wouldn’t put pardoning past any bribed or demented Democrat. They will say Manson is harmless now. Look at how CA let Roman Polanski go, and all the well heeled Hollywood Democrats cheered.

PCD (1d8b6d) — 7/26/2013 @ 1:46 pm

pretty sure Polanski skipped out on bail, not parole

redc1c4 (abd49e) — 7/26/2013 @ 1:49 pm

If Jerry Brown were to pardon and release Sirhan Squared, it could really help his standing with Palestinian voters.

Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 7/26/2013 @ 1:51 pm

Then again, Sirhan Squared did murder Democrat royalty, so he’ll probably not get pardoned.

Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 7/26/2013 @ 1:52 pm

Per #14:
Is it possible she is trying to cover herself from push-back by friends and radicals when her identity comes out?

Comment by roy in nipomo (160066) — 7/26/2013 @ 8:50 am
= = = = = =

Well, one way to be sure your identity comes out is to make the rounds of talk shows claiming that the Black Grievance Industry is 100% right about this case.

(Shorter: she’s an attention whore and thinks heaps of money will be forthcoming if she publicly validates the worldview of the Liberals/ Racists/ Progressives in the MSM — sorry, I’m repeating myself, twice.)

A_Nonny_Mouse (57cacf) — 7/26/2013 @ 2:11 pm

Sirhan Sirhan won’t get paroled, even if every other murderer in California who’s been in jail as long as he was, is.

Sirhan Sirhan Parole Hearing #14

The courts are not actually going to force his release, even if they are going to force parole hearings, and even if they have to come up with some reason why he is different.

Charles Manson won’t get released any time soon, either.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 7/26/2013 @ 2:11 pm

The case of the missing phone call:

Dispatcher: OK, do you just want to meet with them at the mailboxes then? [3:42 or 7:13:12 pm]

Zimmerman: Yeah, that’s fine. [3:43]

[At 7:13:12 dispatcher keys in: COMPL WILL 1056 AT MAILBOXES OF COMPLEX]

Dispatcher: All Right, George. I’ll let them know you’ll meet them around there, OK?

Zimmerman: Actually, could you have them call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at? [3:49]

Dispatcher: OK, yeah, that’s no problem.

[At 7:13:41 dispatcher keys in: COMPL NOW REQ LEO 1045 BEFORE 1056]

(Officer Smith, the first patrolman who responded, arrived at 1111 Retreat View Circle at 7:17:11. And he did not know the 911 calls
had to do with the same Zimmerman.)

Zimmerman: You need my number, or you’ve got it?

Dispatcher: Yeah, I’ve got it. It’s 435-2400. (zero-zero)

Zimmerman: Yeah, you got it.

Dispatcher: OK, no problem. I’ll let them know to call you when they’re
in the area. [4:02]

Zimmerman: Thanks.

Dispatcher: You’re welcome. [4:06]

Call ends 4:07. The time is 7:13:41.

In no more than 3 1/2 minutes, Travon Martin will be shot dead, after a struggle.

Georgd Zimmerman said in his walk through that he was on the phone while he went he went looking for a street name, and what he said took place in that conversation does not accord with what is on that tape. He does not get repeatedly asked for an address. The dispatcher does not ask him if he does not want the police to come after after all, and he does not say no. Could it be there’s a misisng phone call that was not released? GZ said he would make a call and there’s no record of such a call. Of course maybe he wasn’t yet back at his truck.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 7/26/2013 @ 2:30 pm

The discrepancy between what George Zimmerman said in the walk through and the released call and some other things might be reduced with a couple of things.

Perhaps someone in the police department did make that second call to his number. But since it was not a call he made, it never went into the 911 system!!

The only thing is they should have called when they got into the area. But maybe someone called earlier.

Also, perhaps GZ was already walking on the cut through during the first call.

And the time till the fight started was less. Everyone is saying the fight lasted at least 40 seconds. There is 40 seconds since the first of the 911 calls. But the fight started earlier.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 7/26/2013 @ 2:35 pm

if she’s 36, and a mother of 8, she hasn’t been w*rking all that much.

OCTOJUROR!!!

Icy (ea303f) — 7/26/2013 @ 3:23 pm

It amazes me that she goes on national tv and expresses this viewpoint but in the jury room decided differently.

Anyone ask her how that happened?

Was she coerced somehow into changing her vote/opinion? If so she should say so. If not then she should explain herself.

This is just another LIV looking for a book/movie deal being advised by a lawyer with his mind in Hollywood and his eyes on the money.

Jcw46 (6106c6) — 7/26/2013 @ 3:38 pm

Shes disntiguishing between what she thinks and the way the law seems to require her to think.

Sammy Finkelman (ee68f6) — 7/26/2013 @ 4:15 pm

Well I know you’re shocked that the network who employed David Chelian, would do this;

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/07/26/did-abc-news-deceptively-edit-zimmerman-jurors-controversial-interview-an-unlikely-source-is-calling-them-out/

narciso (3fec35) — 7/26/2013 @ 4:17 pm

‘Breitbot’ was redefined the evening/morning after the Boston bombings. Remember Sunil?

tifosa (8cde25) — 7/26/2013 @ 4:46 pm

the audiotape edited on three different occasions, the video tape at the police station, the transcript of calls compressed from 7 1/2 years to one, the New Republic, seems to have been the latest to fall for this.

narciso (3fec35) — 7/26/2013 @ 4:57 pm

Sammy

I’m just another aggressively dishonest concerned trolling moby with shades of narcissism and somewhat of an inferiority complex, but gee, I dunno, some people take the word of a guy who just shot someone dead and some people might question his story….. cause you know people who gun down an unarmed person might make up a story or two?

okay I will go back to purgatory now

EPWJ (c3dbb4) — 7/26/2013 @ 5:18 pm

Good Allah,

narciso (3fec35) — 7/26/2013 @ 5:20 pm

narciso #83,

I can’t believe I’ve fallen for another media lie. We know how they manipulate the truth and yet I continue to fall for it.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 7/26/2013 @ 5:43 pm

EPWJ, you’re onto something here. It’s undoubtedly true that people who commit crimes often lie about their involvement.

So let’s make a Venn diagram; blob 1 is people who shot someone dead. Blob 2 is people who committed a crime. Their intersection is the concept of “murder”. Blob 3 is people who having committed a crime understandably lie about it. It lies completely within blob 2.

And this last is the problem. It starts out assuming criminality. It’s just a polite way of saying “Hang the bastard!”.

I presume you are somewhat of a learned man, but I see no evidence that you grasp basic logic.

phunctor (6f180b) — 7/26/2013 @ 5:57 pm

DRJ, the amount of media manipulation—and the decidedly pro “Teh Narrative” direction in which it is manipulated—is chilling. It’s intesting, too. The folks who insist that Breitbart manipulated footage deceptively seem unconcerned about this.

We may be back to the Left accusing the Right of what the Left is actually doing.

Simon Jester (c8876d) — 7/26/2013 @ 6:00 pm

http://mobile.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2013/07/did_george_zimmerman_get_away_with_murder_no_juror_b29_is_being_framed.html

Slate says ABC did a hack job on Juror B29. Tifosa approves.

JD (b63a52) — 7/26/2013 @ 6:17 pm

phunctor

dead kid, adult called in to police with anger – went after kid with a gun.

This is like the story in Texas, a man has neighbors with loud parties, calls police, police come, leave, party restarts, he calls police again then gets impatient and takes a pistol down to the party, to tell them the police is on the way

shootout occurs – who is wrong?

people have a right to have music, walk through neighborhoods, had nothing happened Z should have been arrested for being an asss and a danger to himself and others and had his carry permit revoked forever

hint is the homeowner on death row?

EPWJ (c3dbb4) — 7/26/2013 @ 6:21 pm

EPWJ, why do you insist on telling the Zimmerman tale with invented “facts”?

SPQR (768505) — 7/26/2013 @ 6:23 pm

I just have been on my guard, somehow like Winston Smith, I expect that there will be a scrap of paper, with the pic of the three former Party Members.

narciso (3fec35) — 7/26/2013 @ 6:30 pm

All it takes for Evil to triumph is for Good Men (and/or Women) to do nothing.

And when people have ass-backwards compassion, the evil ironically enough involves tears. But tears shed for the bad guy, and for just the opposite to be expressed for someone who was a good, watchful neighbor struggling to save his life.

okay I will go back to purgatory now

An appropriate place for people to end up when they’re devoid of true, legitimate compassion.

Mark (938403) — 7/26/2013 @ 6:34 pm

Edmund Burke, who warned of the incipient Reign of Terror, made that statement,

narciso (3fec35) — 7/26/2013 @ 6:37 pm

okay I will go back to purgatory now
Comment by EPWJ (c3dbb4) — 7/26/2013 @ 5:18 pm

— Tease.

Icy (ea303f) — 7/26/2013 @ 6:50 pm

dead kid, adult called in to police with anger – went after kid with a gun.

Simply not true.

JD (b63a52) — 7/26/2013 @ 6:56 pm

people have a right to have music, walk through neighborhoods, had nothing happened Z should have been arrested for being an asss and a danger to himself and others and had his carry permit revoked forever

OMG

JD (b63a52) — 7/26/2013 @ 6:57 pm

Facepalm with an old one, JD.

narciso (3fec35) — 7/26/2013 @ 6:58 pm

Edmund Burke, who warned of the incipient Reign of Terror, made that statement,

I wonder if he was fully aware of and repulsed by such evil originating from truly ironic places in a person’s heart (ie, brain)? For example, one of the biggest symbols of ruthlessness and cruelty in modern history, Adolph Hitler, was a vegan who believed in animal rights.

Decades later, some of the meanest, cruelest, most violent behavior can be observed among far too many people in communities where huge numbers of the electorate vote for and favor liberals and liberalism. A case in point is the example of Detroit, Michigan, and all its variations throughout America.

Mark (938403) — 7/26/2013 @ 7:02 pm

EPJW – You insist TM was just walking trough the neighborhood. But he wasn’t. And you know that.

Sarahw (b0e533) — 7/26/2013 @ 7:04 pm

true, legitimate compassion

for a killer?

but before I ~~slither~~ ooze back under my fungus covered rock, I wonder where those meanies who hurt mah feelins when I said Ryan wasn’t Republican back when there was this fox covered election cycle

enjoy

http://www3.blogs.rollcall.com/goppers/paul-ryan-hint-at-immigration-timetable/

I will be accepting apologies in the customary low key manor the washing of my feet then kissing them…..

EPWJ (c3dbb4) — 7/26/2013 @ 7:05 pm

The treehouse, has some further details about ‘Maddy’s attorney,

narciso (3fec35) — 7/26/2013 @ 7:08 pm

Never happening, concern troll.

SPQR (768505) — 7/26/2013 @ 7:09 pm

Sarahw

one day when all the hype is over, Obama and Holder are gone, the truth will come out.

Z went after someone with a gun, he had every reason to lie, and he is lucky there was a backlash that clearly prejudiced the jury in his favor

when our gun rights and civil rights are not under assault and the jurors have several years to think about it and the neighbors are not under threat of civil suits, then the truth will come out

EPWJ (c3dbb4) — 7/26/2013 @ 7:14 pm

Someone got into the Hooch. Again.

JD (b63a52) — 7/26/2013 @ 7:17 pm

concern(ed) troll.

Sorry for the correction but you know how I can’t stand unproper English..

I’m surprised though – I though you would be first 🙂

EPWJ (c3dbb4) — 7/26/2013 @ 7:18 pm

Chico, B-29’s attorney, is the same fellow who went after Zimmerman, on that charge that was dismissed,

narciso (3fec35) — 7/26/2013 @ 7:19 pm

I wonder where those meanies who hurt mah feelins when I said Ryan wasn’t Republican

That’s why you of all people should be fully aware of the way that left-leaning emotions can really screw up a person’s perceptions and, oddly enough, his or her humaneness too. Just about all humans are guilty of that on occasion (eg, Reagan and his secret negotiations with hostage-taking Iran). But for a non-leftist, you appear to get zapped by ass-backwards compassion on more than a few occasions, your gut reactions towards Zimmerman versus Martin the most recent example of that.

Mark (938403) — 7/26/2013 @ 7:30 pm

Epjw,
Saying he went after the kid with a gun kind of implies that he had the gun drawn. You might not mean the implication, but its still there.

Ghost (996b5a) — 7/26/2013 @ 7:40 pm

had nothing happened Z should have been arrested for being an asss and a danger to himself and others and had his carry permit revoked forever

Really bad logic in there.

First, had nothing happened, nothing would have happened. Trayvon Martin would have gone into the house he was looking for, the police would have met up with Zimmerman and taken a statement, and everything would have ended there.

You’ll have to show us in Florida’s laws where “being an asss” is a crime worthy of arrest and getting your carry permit revoked. (I’m guessing you won’t do that, but am willing to keep an open mind.)

Chuck Bartowski (92b4d8) — 7/26/2013 @ 7:46 pm

Why did Zimmerman call the police if his intent was to kill Martin?

DRJ (a83b8b) — 7/26/2013 @ 7:48 pm

Super duper double secret Jedi mind trick, DRJ

JD (b63a52) — 7/26/2013 @ 7:51 pm

DRJ

Why did he feel the need to take a gun? Why didn’t he wait for the police, why did he feel he needed to confront Martin? why why why indeed.

EPWJ (c3dbb4) — 7/26/2013 @ 7:55 pm

chuck they would have gone apeshit when they saw he was armed looking for someone…

dude called in 40 some odd false reports

this really isn’t that hard or difficult

EPWJ (c3dbb4) — 7/26/2013 @ 7:58 pm

Every part of the prosecution’s ‘case’ and I use that word advisedly, comes through a handler like Crump or the consultant for Pigford, this episode, is another element of lawfare.

narciso (3fec35) — 7/26/2013 @ 8:01 pm

Why did he feel the need to take a gun?

He had a concealed carry permit. He always had the gun on him. He didn’t go out of his way to take the gun with him on that night.

Why didn’t he wait for the police

Based on the evidence, it sounds like he was willing to do exactly that, but got attacked before the police arrived.

why did he feel he needed to confront Martin?

There’s absolutely no evidence Zimmerman confronted Martin. You pulled that right out of your nether regions.

If you’re forced to lie about everything, how strong can your arguments possibly be?

Chuck Bartowski (92b4d8) — 7/26/2013 @ 8:03 pm

EPWJ,

You have made no attempt at actually arguing your case. I was willing to give the benefit of the doubt, but no longer. You are obviously nothing but a troll, and a transparently dishonest one at that. I will no longer respond to your comments whatsoever, and I encourage other commenters to do so as well.

OmegaPaladin (f4a293) — 7/26/2013 @ 8:11 pm

Is there a line for slithering back under that rock? ‘Cause I can prolly get a couple of the guys to chip in and spring for an express pass.

Icy (ea303f) — 7/26/2013 @ 8:25 pm

EPWJ,

I agree with the facts as stated by Chuck Bartowski.

Why do you think Zimmerman called the police if, as you apparently claim, he intended to shoot Martin?

DRJ (a83b8b) — 7/26/2013 @ 8:27 pm

At 17, I would have empathized with Martin.

Empathy for Martin and not for Zimmerman seems to be the “tell” – it’s a litmus test for arrested development.

If you empathize with the “child” you are most likely stuck in that mindset, whereas if you empathize with Zimmerman, you have grown past that knee jerk rebellion against authority *most* teens have.

Amy Shulkusky (676892) — 7/26/2013 @ 8:30 pm

When I first heard of this story, over a year ago, I “visualized” a scenario where this could have been me. I hate confrontation, but if I see something, I feel it’s my duty to say something. From the initial reporting, I could see how being observant and notifying authorities could put me in danger if the person I was observing decided I was a threat.

That’s why this resonates with so many of us – we don’t identify with a person who would escalate to violence for being “dissed”, we identify with the person who feels responsible for his community.

At 17, I would probably have ID’ed with Martin, but as an adult, I know better. It saddens me so many attempt to portray adolescent behavior as righteous, when a civil society depends on civility.

Amy Shulkusky (676892) — 7/26/2013 @ 8:35 pm

You are obviously nothing but a troll

I don’t think he’s that, as much as I think he’s just a peculiarly ruthless person. And, given the traits described by Amy, an immature one too.

Mark (938403) — 7/26/2013 @ 8:49 pm

Entertaining YouTube video on this juror.

Also several great videos on the channel including about the, er, “parenting” received by Trayvon Martin.

Former Conservative (6e026c) — 7/26/2013 @ 9:01 pm

Oh, c’mon folks. Look at EPWJ’s antics over the past couple of years. Is anyone really surprised?

What is usually funny about him are the unintentional malapropisms. Like:

“…I can’t stand unproper English…..”

Hilarious.

We should just lock him in a room with Mark, Thunder Dome style.

Simon Jester (1a2aed) — 7/26/2013 @ 9:17 pm

The media should have to wait 90 days before they are allowed to approach a juror for comment.

SteveG (794291) — 7/26/2013 @ 10:28 pm

This is very simple. She’s black and someone fingered her for being on the jury. She has to live in the world, so she has denounced her vote and claimed it was “the others” that made her do it.

I expect, as each juror is outed (and they all will be before August), they will all say the think GZ was guilty but “the others” made them back down.

After it is all said, the Feds will indict and this time it will be tried before an all-black jury and judge.

The media will go along because they are in the wind for hundreds of millions already in libel suits by GZ if he wants, so the gotta make the lie good.

Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 7/26/2013 @ 11:47 pm

Simon

I wuz trying to be funny

trying I guess being the operative word…

EPWJ (f44e22) — 7/27/2013 @ 2:59 am

DRJ

Joe Horn called the police too, so did the music shooter and many dozens of other incidents.

I don’t know where Chuck got his facts, I don’t think they were facts at all, but more conjecture and poor conjecture at that, anytime you use your conceal carry to create a situation that can result in a shooting ERRONEOUSLY – you will have it revoked.

EPWJ (f44e22) — 7/27/2013 @ 3:06 am

I don’t know where Chuck got his facts, I don’t think they were facts at all, but more conjecture and poor conjecture at that, anytime you use your conceal carry to create a situation that can result in a shooting ERRONEOUSLY – you will have it revoked.

All Zimmerman did was call the police about a suspicious person. Had nothing else happened, the police would have taken a statement from him and that would have been the end of the story. He would not have had his CCW permit revoked, as you alleged in #92.

Where is your evidence that Zimmerman confronted Martin? It certainly wasn’t anywhere in the trial. Please show your evidence for that. And show the statute in Florida laws that say Zimmerman would have been arrested for being an ass, as you said up above.

Chuck Bartowski (92b4d8) — 7/27/2013 @ 3:12 am

omegapaladin

I acknowledged I was a troll for not accepting the word of someone who shot a kid dead who was just walking home

we had no injuries, no dna on the gun or on Martin’s hands. The jury ignored the critical testimony of the MedExam – who testified there were no contusions or bruising.

Z’s story never added up and his not taking the stand was a huge admission of guilt.

EPWJ (f44e22) — 7/27/2013 @ 3:13 am

Chuck

Again conjecture, no facts., all Zimmerman did was shoot a kid – see there that’s a fact. Zimmerman confronted Martin – there again that a fact.
What you are doing is what some of the jury did, felt that Z’s heart was in the right place-and so was his gun.

EPWJ (f44e22) — 7/27/2013 @ 3:16 am

You see they were supposed to go on the facts

Fact Z shot a kid dead

Kid wasn’t doing anything

Z got out of his truck to apprehend him

Z’s injuries were most likely hammer strikes from a struggle over a gun.

injuries were testified by experts as very minor.

EPWJ (f44e22) — 7/27/2013 @ 3:19 am

As I have said before, a major problem in reacting to the Zimmerman case verdict is the lack of empathy for the neighbourhood watch captain trying to protect his home and his family and his neighbourhood from strangers acting strangely …

Another major problem is the excess of compassion without empathy for Martin, such that his supporters project onto him their own innocence – being unable to picture themselves rendered paranoid and violently aggressive by ‘lean’, they hear Skittles and Iced Tea and believe that Martin was just an innocent kid walking home from the store after buying candy …

So they can ignore that the ‘kid’ was sitting on top of someone smaller and less physically fit than the ‘kid’, and was bouncing the older less-fit Zimmerman’s head off concrete (cement?) (as evidenced by the injuries to the back of Zimmerman’s head …

And they can ignore the decisions based upon experience made by the local police and then by the FBI … and then by the 6 jurors …

Cuz their excess of compassion without empathy makes them know better than all those folk …

Alastor (2e7f9f) — 7/27/2013 @ 3:23 am

EPWJ – before you allow yourself to be SO certain about what you perceive to be facts, take a look at this article and video and, once you have watched all 10 minutes of it, then get back to us here …

Alastor (2e7f9f) — 7/27/2013 @ 4:00 am

Zimmerman confronted Martin – there again that a fact.

I’ve asked you for evidence of this, and you have failed to provide it. Show me your evidence that Zimmerman confronted Martin.

Show me your evidence that had he not shot Martin, Zimmerman would have been arrested for “being an ass”, as you alleged in #92.

all Zimmerman did was shoot a kid – see there that’s a fact.

Yes, Zimmerman shot a kid. A kid who attacked him, as near as we can tell from the evidence presented at trial. A kid who punched him in the nose and slammed his head against the concrete. And, from all the evidence that the State of Florida presented, the most reasonable conclusion we can draw is that Zimmerman fired in self defense.

Chuck Bartowski (92b4d8) — 7/27/2013 @ 4:00 am

Z’s injuries were most likely hammer strikes from a struggle over a gun.

Yeah, because people struggling for guns always get the backs of their heads hit by the gun’s hammer.

You’re making sh*t up again.

Chuck Bartowski (92b4d8) — 7/27/2013 @ 4:02 am

86

I’m just another aggressively dishonest concerned trolling moby with shades of narcissism and somewhat of an inferiority complex, but gee, I dunno, some people take the word of a guy who just shot someone dead and some people might question his story….. cause you know people who gun down an unarmed person might make up a story or two?

Questioning his story is one thing. Jumping to the conclusion that he is lying and then ignoring all evidence to the contrary is something else again.

James B. Shearer (f910d1) — 7/27/2013 @ 5:23 am

There’s a reason I’ve dubbed him Otto, but there is some serious ‘media malpractice’ being demonstrated in this case,

narciso (3fec35) — 7/27/2013 @ 5:41 am

Epjw,
Saying he went after the kid with a gun kind of implies that he had the gun drawn. You might not mean the implication, but its still there.

Comment by Ghost (996b5a) — 7/26/2013 @ 7:40 pm

He’s deliberately stretching to make it sound just like that – it provokes his own emotions and feels persuasive to him I suppose. There is zero evidence of brandishing. No evidence of him using the gun to subdue until immediately before the fatal shot.

Sarahw (b0e533) — 7/27/2013 @ 6:33 am

Having a gun is not “going after” someone with a gun.

Sarahw (b0e533) — 7/27/2013 @ 6:33 am

And Trayvon was not doing nothing. He was loitering, in bad weather – which is odd and attention grabbing as opposed to walking home; he was going between houses and looking into them. neighborhood.

Sarahw (b0e533) — 7/27/2013 @ 6:36 am

I liked EPWJ when he just yanked chains as the drop-in contrarian, but that ETOH will catch up to you sooner or later. He’s gone delirious on Zimmerman.

nk (875f57) — 7/27/2013 @ 6:50 am

EPWJ,

I thought you previously said you wanted this case to be decided by a jury and you would accept the jury’s decision. if so, part of accepting their decision is accepting their facts.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 7/27/2013 @ 7:15 am

She has to live in the world

I’d assume she was now trying to do back flips to conform with the sentiments of much of the black community if she also avoided being in the spotlight at all costs. But her willingness to show up on a TV interview — on video, no less, instead of print only — runs counter to that assumption.

The juror is merely wrestling with her oddly cruel, inhumane side — sort of like the symbolic little devil whispering into one of her ears, while the symbolic little angel whispers into the other ear — in which the bad gets the benefit of the doubt while the good gets the heave-ho. And people like her are too deluded to not realize that. IOW, she likely believes her “better angels” are making her tear up for Trayvon.

Cuz their excess of compassion without empathy makes them know better than all those folk …

Exactly. The irresponsibility and cheapness of compassion for compassion’s sake deserves to be studied by sociologists—although if they themselves are liberal, they won’t take kindly to such a study. Certainly a study of the irony of such reactions often or easily leading to just the opposite of compassion and decency.

I recall the phrase “bleeding heart” (or often “bleeding heart liberal”) from years ago, but the reason why it was coined and so appropriately pejorative didn’t hit me until well after I first came across that phrase. IOW, I originally didn’t fully realize how “bleeding heart” emotions could make people, in actuality, quite ruthless and unkind.

As for EPWJ, I’ve noticed various forumers through the months being very dismissive of his MO, although I thought they perhaps were being overly cynical about him. This thread is sort of an “a-ha!” moment and wake-up call for me.

Mark (938403) — 7/27/2013 @ 7:18 am

we had no injuries, no dna on the gun or on Martin’s hands. The jury ignored the critical testimony of the MedExam – who testified there were no contusions or bruising.

Z’s story never added up and his not taking the stand was a huge admission of guilt.

On what planet is any of this true?!

JD (dae520) — 7/27/2013 @ 7:21 am

Z’s story never added up and his not taking the stand was a huge admission of guilt.
Comment by EPWJ (f44e22) — 7/27/2013 @ 3:13 am
— Kinda tells ya all you need to know right there, don’t it?

Comment by EPWJ (f44e22) — 7/27/2013 @ 3:16 am
Again conjecture, no facts., all Zimmerman did was shoot a kid – see there that’s a fact.
— Jack. “that’s a fact, Jack!” See there, you’ll win over more people with Bill Murray than you ever will with just . . . well, ‘you’.

Zimmerman confronted Martin – there again that a fact.
— A Persian NinJew slipped into EPWJ’s room undetected and supplied this information. It was written in invisible-ink Hebrew on the back of a Scozzafava campaign contributions envelope.
[NinJews are more cleverer than regular ninjas in that they walk the streets of Tehran during daylight hours completely undetected.]

What you are doing is what some of the jury did, felt that Z’s heart was in the right place-and so was his gun.
— TAF,J!

Comment by EPWJ (f44e22) — 7/27/2013 @ 3:19 am
You see they were supposed to go on the facts
— Some might call it “evidence”, but do carry on.

Fact Z shot a kid dead
— Case closed! Okay, everybody can go home now.
Oh, wait … (pesky Constitution always gettin’ in the way of my fun; some days, I swear, it makes me wanna go halfway around the world …)

Kid wasn’t doing anything
— Which is to say, the kid wasn’t doing anything until he tripped and slipped and fell on top of Z’s face with his fists.

Z got out of his truck to apprehend him
— And then he realized “Oh crap! I’ve left my ‘wannabe cop handcuffs’ at home. But what else can I possibly do to immobilize him? Hmmm. . . .”

Z’s injuries were most likely hammer strikes from a struggle over a gun.
— He should have just allowed Trayvon to take it away from him; right? I mean, as a “kid” Trayvon would know that minors are not supposed to be in possession of a handgun; so, after wresting the weapon from Z’s grasp, surely he would have immediately flung it into the bushes or up onto the nearest roof where Z’s fat creepy cracka ass could never reach it.

injuries were testified by experts as very minor.
— And therefore Z had no right to feel that his life was in danger?

Icy (133946) — 7/27/2013 @ 7:28 am

Mark, I think you’d get a kick out of this book.

nk (875f57) — 7/27/2013 @ 7:45 am

EPWJ, you are fabricating again. No one testified as you claim.

SPQR (5557ef) — 7/27/2013 @ 7:58 am

Robin Roberts Most Trusted Television Host: according to Reader’s Digest.

In an interview with the magazine, Roberts said she wished her parents could see her receive the distinction. “All they wanted was for us to be trustworthy citizens,” she said. “And there’s a responsibility that goes with that, and it’s not something I take lightly.”

Ah well. Trust. Easy come easy go.

papertiger (c2d6da) — 7/27/2013 @ 8:14 am

I think you’d get a kick out of this book.

nk, that text would make a fine addition to the list of books approved for California public schools.

BTW, I bet in the future, such material will happily characterize George Zimmerman as a heartless, bigoted SOB, while Trayvon Martin will be cast as a sad, lonely, defenseless child who was killed due to the sins of racism, sexism, homophobia, anti-Islamicism, Christian-ism, imperialism, class-ism, age-ism.

nbclatino.com, March 2013: Alongside popular K-12 books like “The Scarlet Letter” and “Of Mice and Men,” a list of books dealing with LGBT and illegal immigration issues will be included in the California Department of Education’s newly-released list of recommended reading.

For the first time, a number of books recommended by the Stonewall Book Awards, which recognizes LGBT literature, could be a curriculum option to public schools across the state. The new books will be added to the online catalogue, Recommended Literature: Pre-Kindergarten through Grade Twelve, that already has close to 7,800 books to choose from.

sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com, May 2013: The California Board of Education on Wednesday unanimously approved new standards stating that textbooks, workbooks and other teaching materials purchased with state funds must avoid “descriptions, depictions, labels, or rejoinders that tend to demean, stereotype, or patronize individuals” who are gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender.

The criteria will be used by the state over the next few years to guide the adoption of new materials, which also will be evaluated to ensure they include the contributions of prominent gay and transgender people when it would be historically accurate to do so, California Department of Education spokesman Paul Heffner said.

The changes adopted this week were made in part to implement a first-in-nation bill, passed by the California Legislature and signed by Gov. Jerry Brown in 2011, requiring schools to teach the contributions of gay, lesbian and disabled people in social studies lessons.

Mark (938403) — 7/27/2013 @ 8:21 am

This!!111

EPWJ, I thought you previously said you wanted this case to be decided by a jury and you would accept the jury’s decision. ~~if so, part of accepting their decision is accepting their facts.~~

Comment by DRJ (a83b8b) — 7/27/2013 @ 7:15 am

EPWJ –

The verdict came in quite some time ago. Zimmerman was found not guilty by a jury of his peers.

papertiger (c2d6da) — 7/27/2013 @ 8:28 am

Shocking White Hispanic-on-White Hispanic violence in Florida.

Icy (133946) — 7/27/2013 @ 8:48 am

Mark, it was actually written by a conservative to satirize liberals but you’re right. He got liberal ~~thought~~ babble down so pat, liberals will take it seriously, even refuse to believe it’s mockery if you tell them to. Check out Simon’s link on the Huma thread, too.

nk (875f57) — 7/27/2013 @ 8:59 am

Credit where it’s due, President Barack Obama is to be commended for pointing out that phony scandals are distracting us from the problems facing our nation.

The inflamed racial passions resulting from the entirely manufactured scandal surrounding the justifiable death of Trayvon Martin is as phony as a 3 dollar bill, and this thoroughly disgraceful travesty of justice, this attempted public lynching of an innocent man, was aided and abetted by the Obama Administration acting through Obama’s corrupt lapdog Attorney General, the odious Eric Holder.

ropelight (fe4612) — 7/27/2013 @ 9:18 am

A follow up;

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/07/27/juror-b29-was-framed-sort-of/

narciso (3fec35) — 7/27/2013 @ 9:41 am

Sorry for the correction but you know how I can’t stand unproper English..

Comment by EPWJ (c3dbb4) — 7/26/2013 @ 7:18 pm

Then remove “how” from that statement.

creeper (9a0929) — 7/27/2013 @ 9:45 am

Oh, and it’s “improper”, not “unproper”.

Two errors in one sentence. Some English buff you are.

creeper (9a0929) — 7/27/2013 @ 9:46 am

Check out Simon’s link on the Huma thread, too.

nk, that article in New York magazine is really unnerving, because when I squint just a bit as I’m reading it I also think it’s a parody. But then I look at it more closely and realize it was written not tongue-in-cheek but in a quite straight-faced and apparently sincere manner.

Mark (938403) — 7/27/2013 @ 9:46 am

You know when you’re reading Jacobson, he’s going to be a hack, willing to accuse the US government of collaborating in drug trafficking to make his subject look good, so good Denzel signed on to play him,

narciso (3fec35) — 7/27/2013 @ 9:54 am

Epjw is just a couple of fact free comments from jumping on the Surls train of “a skinhead shot Trayvon.

Ghost (996b5a) — 7/27/2013 @ 10:58 am

I retract my entire comment #37 with a profound apology to Maddy. It turns out that I’m the dunderhead for believing ANYTHING ‘reported’ by ABC, CBS or NBC.

Maddy did NOT say what ABC ‘reported’.

Frank (167bb8) — 7/28/2013 @ 5:52 am

“A Florida couple rescued from an overturned SUV by George Zimmerman last week have cancelled a planned news conference over concerns about being associated with Trayvon Martin’s killer.”
yeh, let’s go with “killer,” no argument there.
(see 6th Commandment)
http://gawker.com/family-saved-by-george-zimmerman-afraid-to-be-associat-897321026

tifosa (df2dc2) — 7/28/2013 @ 11:48 am

164. “see 6th commandment”

Check your Hebrew Word Book, the translation is “murder”.

I try to avoid all living while driving. I stop for turtles especially, to remove them from the road.

But if I hit one, I don’t beat myself up for it, even tho I’m a ‘killer’.

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 7/28/2013 @ 11:58 am

Tiffy is obsessed. And wants their reluctance to be public to be taken in the wrong way.

JD (f80562) — 7/28/2013 @ 11:59 am

The Catholic Church teaches “kill.” No mention of murder, nor turtles.

tifosa (df2dc2) — 7/28/2013 @ 12:01 pm

Me and mine are privileged to live more than an hour from the nearest ghetto.

We trust God to keep us safe, but why trouble Him unnecessarily?

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 7/28/2013 @ 12:03 pm

167. Yeah I hear they’re pro-life too, no weasely words like ‘except for the health of the mother’. When you marry in ‘the Church’ you contract to hand over the progeny.

They took a wrong, Aristotelian turn with Thomas Aquinas and have never been quite right since.

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 7/28/2013 @ 12:09 pm

163. Good on ya.

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 7/28/2013 @ 12:12 pm

167. The Catholic Church teaches “kill.” No mention of murder, nor turtles.

Comment by tifosa (df2dc2) — 7/28/2013 @ 12:01 pm

There’s no need to explore the mysteries of the Roman Catholic Church to determine the truth.

Who does tifosa imagine is arming the pope’s Swiss guard with H&K assault rifles, Glocks, and Sig Suaers? Pacificists?

Steve57 (a65996) — 7/28/2013 @ 12:17 pm

169. Tip of a very large iceberg.

tifosa (df2dc2) — 7/28/2013 @ 12:17 pm

Maybe the Pope doesn’t know his Swiss Guard is armed with guns and ready to kill.

Steve57 (a65996) — 7/28/2013 @ 12:17 pm

tifosa is a moron. Not that that surprises any one.

SPQR (aab1fd) — 7/28/2013 @ 12:22 pm

For those not following, the King James translation of the bible uses 17th century English where “kill” was unlawful killing ie., murder and “slay” was lawful killing. A distinction that has baffled twits like tifosa ever since.

SPQR (aab1fd) — 7/28/2013 @ 12:26 pm

tifosa is a moron.

Just as long as he or she doesn’t fall for the notion that liberal instincts make one a more humane, caring soul, I can tolerate the baloney he or she dishes out.

Mark (938403) — 7/28/2013 @ 12:29 pm

Mark, fall for it? Its completely brainwashed into tifosa.

SPQR (768505) — 7/28/2013 @ 2:15 pm

167. The Catholic Church teaches “kill.” No mention of murder, nor turtles.

Comment by tifosa (df2dc2) — 7/28/2013 @ 12:01 pm

There’s more than a little mention of Church-sponsored shooting matches.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/swiss_guard/swissguard/compiti_en.htm

The Guard serves not only as a Guard of Honour but also keep order every time the Pope is in public, that is for liturgical celebrations in St. Peter’s Basilica, at the General Audiences, during visits to the Pope by Heads of States or Governments, Foreign Ministers and Ambassadors. However, the day is not only given to these official duties; there is also the life of the Guard itself, that requires a series of inspections, briefings, marches and shooting practice.

Presumably because we’re talking about a Catholic outfit they weren’t just engaging in gratuitous self-gratification.

The faithful buying all that ammo for the Swiss Guard to practice with were doing so with a purpose in mind.

Steve57 (a65996) — 7/28/2013 @ 2:24 pm

(see 6th Commandment)

And what, in the Bible, was the penalty for violating the 6th Commandment?

Chuck Bartowski (92b4d8) — 7/28/2013 @ 5:15 pm

Now New York City mayoral candidate has joined in “George Zimmerman got away with murder” chorus:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/29/nyregion/thompson-likens-police-stops-to-suspicions-that-killed-trayvon-martin.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

He was warned by Al Sharpton, didn’t mean he would automatically get the black vote. It looked like maybe he was wandering off the reservation.

So now he goes into the Abundant Life Church in the Prospect Heights section of Brooklyn and says:

“Here in New York City, we have institutionalized Mr. Zimmerman’s suspicion with a policy that all but requires our police officers to treat young black and Latino men with suspicion, to stop them and frisk them because of the color of their skin.”

For Mr. Thompson the speech was a departure not just in tone, but in style. He spoke about “a chorus of common dreams” and “the stubborn stain of enduring racism.” He described the emotional experience of watching President Obama discuss the George Zimmerman verdict, “stripped of that power, not as president, but as the black man he is, I am, and we will always be.” He wondered what moved this “dignified, calm, thoughtful man” to speak, almost sounding as if he could be referring to himself.

Mr. Thompson said he had endured criticism “from people I know and trust and respect” for declaring, after Mr. Zimmerman’s acquittal, that Mr. Martin was killed because of his skin color. But he reiterated that belief again on Sunday.

“Trayvon Martin did die because he was black. Of that, there is no doubt,” Mr. Thompson said, adding, “The verdict in Florida was a verdict — but it was not the verdict.”

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 7/29/2013 @ 10:51 am

Splitting the Bill Mayoral hopeful Thompson is playing all angles on police tactics New York Daily news editorial Tuesday July 30, 2013

Will the real Bill Thompson please stand up? The mayoral candidate who in May saw an “overreaction to stop and frisk” now says the NYPD’s strategy is driven by the same suspicion George Zimmerman harbored toward Trayvon Martin.

Appearing before an African-American congregation Sunday, Thompson leveled a unwarranted, counterproductive accusation against the department that was all the more disturbing because of how it clashed with his past postures.

The lone black contender in the race, Thompson responded to the not guilty verdict rendered against Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch volunteer who trailed the innocent, unarmed 17-year-old Martin and shot him to death during a struggle, by tweeting on July 13: “Trayvon Martin was killed because he was black. There was no justice done today in Florida.”

On Sunday, in an address at Brooklyn’s Abundant Life Church, he made the leap from Zimmerman’s motivations to the NYPD’s program of stopping, questioning and sometimes frisking people suspected of criminality. Thompson said:

“Here in New York City, we have institutionalized Mr. Zimmerman’s suspicion with a policy that all but requires our police officers to treat young black and Latino men with suspicion, to stop them and frisk them because of the color of their skin.”

He added that, in his view, NYPD officers had “profiled as Trayvon was profiled” large numbers of the minority group members who were stopped and let go without summons or arrest.

Contrast this to a May 29 front-page New York Times profile calling Thompson “steadfastly unwilling to join the tear-it-down chorus” on stop-and-frisk. The Times characterized Thompson as saying that campaign jousting had “glossed over its usefulness as a police tool, even as he forcefully criticized its excesses over the past few years.”

The report continued: “His criminal justice platform, he said, ‘isn’t about running for mayor; it’s about governing.’”

This was the same careful Bill Thompson who visited The Daily News editorial board on July 26. He was asked then: “What’s the racial motivation, if there is one, behind stop and frisk?”

Thompson answered : “If 90% of the people who are stopped and frisked are black and Hispanic, then there is a racial component to it. . . . Black and Hispanic communities feel like they’re being targeted, that they’re being targeted for the excessive use of stop-and-frisk.”

Referring to Controller John Liu, the News asked: “One of your rivals… uses the words ‘racial profiling’ . . . Is that a factor in all this?”

“Do communities feel profiled? Yes . . . But also, at the same point, used correctly, it’s a useful police tool. I don’t care what my rivals have said.”

Note the emphasis: Though communities feel profiled, Thompson would not then pin the NYPD with profiling intent.

New Bill Thompson uses the term without hesitation. Why? A likely answer: Thompson is drawing 22% support among African-American Democratic likely primary voters, according to the latest Quinnipiac poll. That’s a couple of points behind sexting liar Anthony Weiner and about tied with Council Speaker Christine Quinn.

With blacks so evenly divided, Quinn topped the pack with 27% of the support among all voters, while Thompson (20%) and Public Advocate Bill de Blasio (21%) were essentially tied in the critical competition for second place — and a spot in a runoff primary.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 7/30/2013 @ 1:01 pm

Thompson goes ugly Cynical, risky race games By BOB McMANUS (New York Post columnist Tuesday July 30, 2013 page 23

Former city Comptroller William Thompson’s little-engine-that-could mayoral campaign took a turn for the truly ugly over the weekend, when the candidate stood up in a predominately black church in Brooklyn and grossly slandered the NYPD.

Seeking to turn a profit from the Trayvon Martin-George Zimmerman tragedy, Thompson laid it on as thick as it comes:

“Here in New York City, we have institutionalized Mr. Zimmerman’s suspicion with a policy that all but requires our police officers to [profile] young black and Latino men . . . as Trayvon was profiled,” he said — leaving hanging in the air the logical concluding clause: And then murdered.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 7/30/2013 @ 1:05 pm

No

Yoda (ee1de0) — 7/30/2013 @ 7:14 pm

Yes he said it and did it.

He was actually quite moderate, but he got scared of Al Sharpton (who actually doesn’t influence all that many votes.

Thompson and Anthony Weiner were on the road to switching constituencies – well, maybe not switching but getting more than the other – Weiner for some unfathomable reason, is strong among the blacks (is there some kind of special campaigning going on or is it that they are behind the curve and Weiner has higher recognition there?) and Thompson was doing considerable campaigning among Jews, particularly Orthodox Jewish organizations. He was connected with the Brooklyn organization, president of the old Board of Education and his father was a judge. His stepmother was Jewish.

A lot of people barely know who Thompson is, in spite of the fact he was Comptroller for – was it 4 years or 8 years?) and ran for mayor last time and to Bloomberg’s and many other people’s surprise, nearly got elected. And many black people don’t know he’s black – he wasn’t
getting that much of an automatic black vote.

And then along came Sharpton and warned him he was wandering off the reservation too much, and he listened..

Maybe reservation is the wrong – should be plantation maybe but this is not a liberal plantation but more like a reservation.

Sammy Finkelman (da8ac2) — 7/30/2013 @ 7:42 pm

7/26/2013

Zimmerman Juror: He Got Away With Murder, But They Couldn’t Prove It

185 Responses to “Zimmerman Juror: He Got Away With Murder, But They Couldn’t Prove It”

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