L.A. Times Edits Trayvon Martin Statements to Make Him Look More Sympathetic
Here’s how the L.A. Times portrays a portion of yesterday’s testimony from the Zimmerman trial:
Jeantel is important in the case because she was the last person to talk with Martin and can discuss what he was saying in the crucial last moments of his life. On the night of Feb. 26, she was in Miami, talking on her cellphone with Martin, who was in Sanford visiting family. He told her he was going to the store to get some candy and a drink.
Then, she said, he became concerned.
“A man was watching him,” Jeantel said Martin told her, several times. “He said a man kept watching him.
“I asked him how the man looked like,” she said. Martin replied that he “looked like a creepy … cracker,” she said, using a slang term for a white person.
Jeantel said she warned Martin the man might be a rapist, which he laughed off. They continued chatting, but Martin then said that the man was still trailing him and that he was going to try to lose him. At that point, Jeantel said, she told Martin to run.
When I read this, I was interested in what got omitted from “creepy … cracker.” I watched a few minutes of the witness’s testimony on YouTube, embedded at Legal Insurrection, and the actual phrase was “creepy-ass cracker.”
They would say, of course, that they had to edit the phrase for language. Except that the L.A. Times uses the word “ass” all the time. I mean: all the time. I’ll just give you three examples from this month alone:
From a story about James Gandolfini:
When Gandolfini read the script, he told Vanity Fair in 2007, “I laughed my ass off. I was like, This is really different and good, and odd.”
From a whimsical piece about “zombie Olympics”:
While most zombies would be no match for a man who “kicks ass for the Lord,” these zombies manage to use their ability to successfully fall apart to maximum effect, crunching him on the neck with a head that had been kicked off into the sky.
And from an article about Wolfgang Puck and other chefs:
“That’s a new cook,” Choi said pointing to Favreau. “We’re kicking his ass.”
So the “we have to edit stories for language” excuse doesn’t fly. And guess what? There’s another thing Trayvon Martin said to his friend that got omitted from the story. Speaking of Zimmerman, Martin told his friend: “now the nigger’s following me.”
That is portrayed as “Martin then said that the man was still trailing him.”
They have always hidden stuff from you. With the Internet, these days you can figure out what they’re hiding.
Over at Legal Insurrection they have links to about four different jeantel clips – and they all start with that head back eyes rolling up expression. It’s just a mirror image as to whether she’s looking left or right.
luagha (1de9ec) — 6/27/2013 @ 7:45 amOf course there is no law against looking at people, or following them, and nobody has the right to attack someone for it.
Milhouse (3d0df0) — 6/27/2013 @ 7:51 amI posted under Snowden the fact that the girlfriend testified in court as to the contents of her conversation with martin prior to his death, making it seem that martin was worried about this “spooky guy” stalking him, and saying, “Get off me, get off me!”
Is it possible, and would you, try to get the text of the conversation from the NSA data base? I am assuming it would either convict Z if it confirms what she said, or blow the prosecution’s case out of the water if the conversation is different.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 6/27/2013 @ 8:11 amJeralyn Merritt savaged the prosecution and this witness.
JD (b63a52) — 6/27/2013 @ 8:15 amthanks JD for the good news,
so maybe we don’t need the NSA after all…
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 6/27/2013 @ 8:18 amThere is a right to compel witnesses for the defendant. I don’t know why the NSA should be excluded, but I also don’t know why I would want Martin testifying from the grave. This girl’s proposed testimony was very likely the subject of a hotly contested motion in limine with the judge making a judgment call whether the statements fell under Florida’s spontaneous statement or excited utterance exceptions to the hearsay rule.
nk (875f57) — 6/27/2013 @ 8:30 amabc, robin roberts and dan abrams, also spoke in hushed tones yesterday twisting her testimony into something less than an unmitigated string of amateurish lies.
In all my years working in court, I have never seen such a poor and total liar as her. Which says something for her, I guess: she’s inexperienced at this sort of thing.
“Incompetent” defense lawyer over illiterate liar for the WIN.
Patricia (be0117) — 6/27/2013 @ 8:41 amThat’s the girlfriend? I mean when I was a teenager it was a big deal to be dating an older woman, but jeeze. . .
JVW (23867e) — 6/27/2013 @ 8:59 amGreetings:
Boy, that Jeantel sure fills up a TV screen.
11B40 (038c41) — 6/27/2013 @ 9:00 amlying liars lie…
both for the prosecution and to their readers.
redc1c4 (403dff) — 6/27/2013 @ 9:05 amnk
I guess it would depend on how the case is going. If you are the defense and think it is going well, then maybe don’t look into the unknown.
If you think the jury is still siding with the “poor little Treyvon” thing, then maybe you want to know what Martin said from the grace,
especially if it was something like, “There’s this cracker who is doing neighborhood watch, I’m going to teach him a lesson”.
Now, I doubt there is anything that blatant on the phone call,
but if what we think is correct about Z being in self defense,
then I think the conversation will not include things like Martin saying “get off me”.
But if the credibility of the witness is already questioned, then maybe you don’t to to go there.
After all, I guess the “job” of a defense attorney in the American judicial system is not to get at the truth, but to show the prosecution did not prove their case.
On the other hand, if the prosecution was confident of the witness’s testimony, why would they depend on her shaky story and not try to get the recording themselves?
Me as the onlooker who says let’s get out a complete and full true story of the account as possible for all to see.
Maybe if the trial does not go well and Z is found guilty then looking into it would be something the defense would do.
I just want to see people who lie caught in the middle of it, and people who tell the truth to be vindicated, which ever way it turns out.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 6/27/2013 @ 9:10 amHow many prosecution witnesses does that make now that have changed their testimony?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/27/2013 @ 9:10 amCan someone explain to me why she was allowed to testify about the hearsay statements that Martin supposedly made to her during the phone call?
I guess the argument would be they are not offered for their truth — but they are, as the prosecution is arguing that Zimmerman was following Martin, as established by Martin’s statements to her.
Sometimes I get the feeling that state trial courts have not fulling internalized the string of Supreme Court decisions on the Sixth Amendment right to confront and cross-examine witnesses against you over the past few years starting with Crawford.
I cannot think of a non-hearsay reason to let her testify to what she claims Martin was telling her on the phone.
shipwreckedcrew (4b14a2) — 6/27/2013 @ 9:13 amAs much as I think Zimmermann is innocent or at least not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, I’m not surprised a young black man would use that language to describe what appeared to be a white man following him at night.
I wouldn’t hold that against the prosecution. The Times still should have have reported it accurately without its reflexive bias.
Former Conservative (6e026c) — 6/27/2013 @ 9:14 amA lot of people look up when they visualise, trying to remember something. So?
Former Conservative (6e026c) — 6/27/2013 @ 9:19 amshipwreckedcrew – I don’t know the legal explanation, but I think it allows the defense to demonstrate the prosecution’s heavy handed tactics with witnesses to get them to say virtually anything in pursuit of a conviction. Yesterday the defense did a good job, IMHO, of impeaching the testimony of two prosecution witnesses by getting them to admit they did not hear or see what they had previously sworn they heard or saw. We learned that Jeantel’s first sworn statement was taken in Trayvon’s mother’s house and that she colored her statement out of deference for her. She has selectively included or excluded material from different statements and changed testimony.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/27/2013 @ 9:25 amIf the link works http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0090/SEC803.HTM&Title=->2000->Ch0090->Section%20803#0090.803 Florida’s hearsay exceptions (non-annotated).
I do not see a Drew Peterson eception.
nk (875f57) — 6/27/2013 @ 9:26 amOver at mediaite, they’ve got my favorite clip of this “star witness” admitting that if anyone was racially profiled, it was Zimmerman. Of course, she’s not bright enough to realize that’s what she’s doing, but by saying that Trayvon described him as a cracker, and that THAT was what made her believe this was racially motivated, she’s admitting that Trayvon racially profiled Zimmerman.
Which matches up with him getting violent towards Zimmerman.
Ghost (2d8874) — 6/27/2013 @ 9:26 amOur esteemed host wrote:
And that is what they hate the most!
The journalist Dana (3e4784) — 6/27/2013 @ 9:32 amThe Drew Peterson exception is FRE 804(b)(6) but I don’t see it codified in the Florida rules.
nk (875f57) — 6/27/2013 @ 9:34 am“I wouldn’t hold that against the prosecution.”
Former Conservative – What are you talking about? It’s is obvious that the parties in the court room cannot control the media coverage and nobody is suggesting that. Both sides also theoretically have to work with the facts as they stand. They are either favorable, neutral or unfavorable. It’s up to the jury to decide.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/27/2013 @ 9:40 amClose call, you cannot blame the judge for tilting towards the prosecution when it only has one bite at the apple i.e. finding, in the court’s discretion, that the statements fell within spontaneous statement/excited utterance. I doubt that the defense acquiesced to it in any way for any reason, though.
nk (875f57) — 6/27/2013 @ 9:41 amI’m not even convinced leaving off the “ass” was meant to make the witness look better. The relevant damaging part was the “creepy … cracker” part. It could have been an inconsistent editing choice to leave off the “ass”. Still, a bad decision. Quotes should avoid ellipses for single words! Way too much risk of changing the meaning for no gain in space saving.
Former Conservative (6e026c) — 6/27/2013 @ 9:41 amYeah, fair enough, daleyrocks.
Former Conservative (6e026c) — 6/27/2013 @ 9:42 amIt’s yet another omission, that hides the carefully facade that the prosecutor’s endorsed.
narciso (3fec35) — 6/27/2013 @ 9:44 amThe focus on racially profiling people is absurd anyway, however legally relevant it may be. One of the motives for why people assault each other is racial, so one thing that people consider when interacting with others on the street at night is race. Even if you were a complete racial egalitarian in every sense of the word, it’s denial of reality to pretend that other people might not consider your race relevant.
The key parts are what the evidence is on who assaulted whom when, etc.
Former Conservative (6e026c) — 6/27/2013 @ 9:48 amThe LA Times needs new owners.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/27/2013 @ 9:52 amWould you buy a newspaper?
Former Conservative (6e026c) — 6/27/2013 @ 9:53 amJust go to drudge. The witness says she cannot read the letter she “wrote” to Trayvon’s mom. She says she cannot read cursive.
elissa (24b4c0) — 6/27/2013 @ 9:55 amHas anyone bothered to tell the “star witness” about the penalties for perjury?
mojo (8096f2) — 6/27/2013 @ 9:56 amWell now you know the reporters at the Los Angeles Times had just left a nice tea, raising their pinkie fingers as they drank. And they did not want to get their tighty whities in a knot reporting some of the awful things that that young lady said. After all, it is a “family” newspaper.
On the other hand, they had no trouble describing Zimmerman as a “White —-er hispanic” with a capital W and a lower case h. Black on brown or vice versa doesn’t fit the narrative.
Comanche Voter (f4c7d5) — 6/27/2013 @ 9:56 amI loved how calling someone a “creepy ass cracker” is not racial. The attorney knows full well that he will be accused of “bullying” this “I don’t watch news. Just weather” witness.
Me, I would have asked her if all “creepy ass crackers” look alike. Especially Hispanic ones. That should go over well in South Florida.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 6/27/2013 @ 9:56 amA man with a gun scared an unarmed
nk (875f57) — 6/27/2013 @ 9:57 ammanboy into trying to defend himself with his bare fists and when the man was losing shot the boy. That’s the narrative.She cannot read a letter she allegedly wrote?
JD (b63a52) — 6/27/2013 @ 9:57 amElissa (#29)… I didn’t read the report. Did this woman really claim she wrote a letter she cannot read? I mean, is she saying that she can write but not read cursive…when she writes it?
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 6/27/2013 @ 9:58 amMe, I would have asked her if all “creepy ass crackers” look alike. Especially Hispanic ones.
Don’t forget that Zimmerman qualifies for that rara avis, the White Hispanic.
JVW (23867e) — 6/27/2013 @ 9:58 amDRJ wrote:
To which the Former Conservative replied:
Well, I but a Philadelphia Inquirer every work day! But, guessing that wasn’t exactly what you had in mind, no, I wouldn’t buy a newspaper company unless I had some burning desire to lose multiple millions of dollars.
The economist Dana (3e4784) — 6/27/2013 @ 9:58 amI think the defense attorney made his point, Simon Jester.
What’s the point of going after the dead man’s friend about whether certain races look alike? She wasn’t the one who made the description, after all. That would have been bullying, and also way off point.
Former Conservative (6e026c) — 6/27/2013 @ 9:59 amSo “cracker” is a “slang” term for a white person?
I wonder what they might consider to be a “slang” term for a black person?
RWS (9d1bb3) — 6/27/2013 @ 9:59 amlol Yes.
Former Conservative (6e026c) — 6/27/2013 @ 9:59 amJVW, I literally saw that where I used to teach. A woman whose father was from Cuba (fleeing Castro) tried to apply for a Hispanic based fellowship. A woman on the selection committee said, and I quote, “She doesn’t pass the paper bag test.”
All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others. Orwell knew Teh Narrative decades ago.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 6/27/2013 @ 10:00 am@Simon Jester
You may as well interview Zimmermann’s barber about his black-person identification skills.
Former Conservative (6e026c) — 6/27/2013 @ 10:04 amRegarding “cracker:”
http://youtu.be/lxxI4USXv4o
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 6/27/2013 @ 10:04 amSimon@35–no not that. But that interchange with Z’s attorney resulted in her admitting that a girlfriend wrote the letter for her.
elissa (24b4c0) — 6/27/2013 @ 10:05 amSo “cracker” is a “slang” term for a white person?
RWS, I saw that too. It’s just the parlance of our times.
Pious Agnostic (c45233) — 6/27/2013 @ 10:06 amWell it was nice of her girlfriend to help her out.
Former Conservative (6e026c) — 6/27/2013 @ 10:06 amFormer Conservative,
I would not buy a newspaper but fortunately there are people like the Kochs who are interested in buying them and (hopefully) turn them around. They may even make money since I think there is a market for a newspaper that provides reliable facts more than opinions.
In addition, many people thought it would be foolish to start a media company or cable channel because the major networks are suffering financially. That didn’t stop Murdoch and Ailes from starting Fox News, and I bet they’re glad they did.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/27/2013 @ 10:08 amRachel Jeantel testified for the second day in a row, saying she thought race was an issue because Martin told her he was being followed by a white man.
— It sounds like race WAS an issue . . . for Trayvon.
Icy (bf16ac) — 6/27/2013 @ 10:08 amHey, elissa: maybe the “girlfriend” should be called in to talk about the letter she wrote for the witness?
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 6/27/2013 @ 10:09 amIcy #48: but Patterico presented evidence (scrubbed from the LA TIMES) that TM refered to Z by the “N” word! Huh?
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 6/27/2013 @ 10:10 amThis can also be looked at the other way.
The truth, of course, is that both men probably included race in their calculations.
Former Conservative (6e026c) — 6/27/2013 @ 10:11 amYeah, I’m thinking that should and may happen, Simon.
elissa (24b4c0) — 6/27/2013 @ 10:12 amFormer – on what factual basis do you assert it was racial on GZ’s behalf?
JD (b63a52) — 6/27/2013 @ 10:13 am“A lot of people look up when they visualise, trying to remember something. So?”
Actually, if you look into neuro-linguistic programming, natural lie detection, and the stuff they use on that show, ‘Lie To Me,’ the natural response is to look up and to their right when attempting to summon details to mind, and up and to their left when attempting to formulate a lie. (Some people have this reversed and it may have to do with handedness.)
So it’s hilarious to me that the images show both, in perfect flip-flop, like the animation of a Canadian flopping head on South Park.
luagha (5cbe06) — 6/27/2013 @ 10:15 amIf you think for a moment that the prosecution did not know every word their witness was going to say on direct ….
nk (875f57) — 6/27/2013 @ 10:15 amSimon Jester (#35): In testimony she said a friend helped draft and write the letter (someone better educated, with a readable cursive penmanship. On the stand today she said she could only read a few of the words.
She read and writes ‘text’ well enough. You can read some of her charmingly phrased recently ‘deleted’ tweets here
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/jeantel-twitter-scrub?page=0
Jay Jerome (dedc93) — 6/27/2013 @ 10:17 amMaybe the fact that it had been the 400th call to the police would not yield any result.
narciso (3fec35) — 6/27/2013 @ 10:17 amI said “probably included race in their calculations,” not, “it was racial.” There’s a difference.
As for why? Well, disparities in crime rates would be one reason why.
Former Conservative (6e026c) — 6/27/2013 @ 10:18 amThe Windy City barrister wrote:
I’d concede that they probably thought they knew just what their witness was going to say on the witless stand.
And no, there is no typographical error in the preceding sentence.
The grammatically precise Dana (3e4784) — 6/27/2013 @ 10:22 am==The truth, of course, is that both men probably included race in their calculations.==
This single case encapsulates and exposes so many of America’s problems: Barely below the surface racial tension, drug use and crime by high schoolers, education system failures, broken families living miles apart who are less able to control their kids, the race baiting industry and media helpers, outright media malfeasance to achieve a narrative, increasing suspicion of law enforcement’s objectivity, inability to believe witnesses to whom the oath of truth seems awfully fluid. It just goes on an on.
elissa (24b4c0) — 6/27/2013 @ 10:23 amI wunner if the Prosecution has any dead possums to put on the stand. Better play that card soon.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 6/27/2013 @ 10:31 amThey were wetting their pants about what she would say on cross, they had written her script about what she would say on direct. Better?
nk (875f57) — 6/27/2013 @ 10:33 amShe needed to have her witness statement read back to her in court in order to find out what’s in it. Or something.
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 6/27/2013 @ 10:38 amAll this fake, but real crap has got to stop. When you manufacture or change evidence, that is a crime, and the prosecutors and Mizz Jeantel should be worrying how much time they will be spending in Prison.
Also, if the 2nd amendmend can be neutered for gun owners who mind their own business, then the 1st can be neutered to not protect plagarists and propagandists masquerading as journalists.
PCD (7a7072) — 6/27/2013 @ 10:38 amIf she gets nailed for perjury, it will likely jeopardize her scholarship to Harvard.
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 6/27/2013 @ 10:39 amIt does not have to be manufactured. You don’t ask a question of your own witness if you don’t already know the answer. It’s a basic rule.
nk (875f57) — 6/27/2013 @ 10:43 am“You don’t ask a question of your own witness if you don’t already know the answer.”
nk – With that witness the answers depend on the day of the week. She’s lucky if she can remember her name.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/27/2013 @ 10:52 amI believe that Cracker may also be a Floridian term for:
http://www.crackercountry.org/what-is-a-florida-cracker
And there is a second possibility–Which I thought I saw mentioned, but cannot confirm. I though I read that she said that T.M. feared being raped by G.Z.
That would lead one to re-punctuate the term to “Creepy” “Ass-Cracker” or a anti-gay slur.
So, it is possible that the term is not “racist”, in either meaning. However, it would be homophobic.
I would guess that T.M. did not mean the guy following was a cowboy from early Florida history. And he could have intended “Creep Ass” “Cracker” as a racist term (big deal….).
Or it could have been a layered set of thoughts (paranoid–from drugs/culture) about an irrational fear of male/male sexual encounter.
Does not justify a physical assault, and there was (as I recall) no information from G.Z. that T.M. said anything about gay/anti-gay comments by either of them.
Just poor clarity of the English Language–And the guy who (possibly) said these words cannot be asked what he intended to convey.
BfC (a1cf00) — 6/27/2013 @ 10:55 amIf you were in charge of the prosecution, would any of you creepy-assed crackers put a star witness like Ms. Jeantel on the stand?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/27/2013 @ 10:55 amIn Florida, don’t make too much of Cracker. Here it’s a uniquely widespread and traditional substitute for White Native Floridian and not necessarily a racial slur, although it can be.
Cracker is surely in use by blacks as a pejorative against whites here and nearly everywhere else, but it’s long parallel and non-pejorative history in the Sunshine State must be acknowledged.
For example, it’s the name of a small town, Crackertown, on the Gulf Coast next to Yankeetown, both named for obvious reasons.
Cracker house describes a style of architecture popular prior to the advent of air conditioning. Cracker cattle describes a hardy breed able to withstand high levels of heat and humidity. Cracker cowboy describes wranglers who used bull whips to get reluctant steers out of the “cabbage” and rounded up. (Some older readers may remember Lash LaRue.)
ropelight (d29d19) — 6/27/2013 @ 10:59 amI’m watching the whole video right now. Yeah, she’s instructable (and believe me I’ve had witnesses with a story to tell and they were going to say it their way). On your second question, this is as good as it gets for the prosecution. What better do they have?
nk (875f57) — 6/27/2013 @ 11:00 am“If she gets nailed for perjury, it will likely jeopardize her scholarship to Harvard.”
ES – Yale would still take her. Remember they took the Taliban guy.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/27/2013 @ 11:01 amOur garrulous Greek conceded:
Much. I just wonder how closely she stuck to the script on direct.
The somewhat amused Dana (3e4784) — 6/27/2013 @ 11:05 am“What better do they have?”
nk – You really need to review the impeachment of the prosecution’s “eyewitness” witnesses on cross yesterday.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/27/2013 @ 11:06 amropelight – When I visit relatives who live in Florida right where most of America’s Most Wanted seem to run out of gas, the locals call me a Yankee, tell me they don’t like Yankees and that they don’t trust Yankees. It’s mean as an insult, not as a figure of speech.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/27/2013 @ 11:13 am75. I thin its spelled ‘Yanqui’.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 6/27/2013 @ 11:19 amBefore you guys get all snarky about Trayvon’s taste in women you should know this: Even though this poor gal who was listening on the phone was touted hither thither and yon by the media as his girlfriend, it is now important for you to know that she was most certainly not his girfriend–just a friend.
elissa (24b4c0) — 6/27/2013 @ 11:21 amTrayvon Martin probably didn’t mean anything derogatory—by all accounts he was a good kid who often kept company with members of the high school honor society.
It is sort of like when jihadists are chanting, “Down with the Yankee dogs !” and “Death to the Yankee infidels !”—they’re just overly excited Boston Red Sox fans, animated about defeating their historical rivals.
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 6/27/2013 @ 11:26 amI’m glad they cleared up that “cracker” was a slang term for white person. I’ve always been under the impression it was a racial slur for white person.
John T (17c51e) — 6/27/2013 @ 11:27 amThey never went on a formal date, Elissa.
JD (bdb1b0) — 6/27/2013 @ 11:27 amelissa – Not a girlfriend? They just screwed around? TMI and TMB.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/27/2013 @ 11:30 amI have a question. Due to the media’s suppression of them, only a few Americans have probably ever seen the photos of Trayvon as he was at the general time frame of when he died. That is, a robust 6 footer with a gold tooth and flashing signals. Is there any reason these photos cannot be presented in court or that the judge might disallow them? These images as opposed to his pre-puberty pics have always seemed very relevant to the case.
elissa (24b4c0) — 6/27/2013 @ 11:30 am77. That’s good to know. I was thinkin’ 4-H project.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 6/27/2013 @ 11:35 amGotta hand it to the prosecution–I have never heard a human being as dim, surly, disrespectful, and thoroughly disengaged as Rachael Jeantel, except of course every time I call customer service at Time-Warner Cable.
Kevin Stafford (1d1b9e) — 6/27/2013 @ 11:36 amI just wonder how closely she stuck to the script on direct.
Comment by The somewhat amused Dana (3e4784) — 6/27/2013 @ 11:05 am
— If the script was written in cursive then she had to ad lib.
Icy (bf16ac) — 6/27/2013 @ 11:55 amI can’t read Swahili, but I write it quite well.
Gus (694db4) — 6/27/2013 @ 12:13 pmComment by Simon Jester (c8876d) — 6/27/2013 @ 10:04 am
I think that guy and Dave Chappelle should team up.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 6/27/2013 @ 12:20 pmBfC Finkelman wrote:
And there is a second possibility–Which I thought I saw mentioned, but cannot confirm. I though I read that she said that T.M. feared being raped by G.Z.
That would lead one to re-punctuate the term to “Creepy” “Ass-Cracker” or a anti-gay slur.
So, it is possible that the term is not “racist”, in either meaning. However, it would be homophobic.
— I don’t want to blow your mind or anything, but there’s another possibility: “Creepy-ass cracker” is what was said (because it IS what she said); “creepy ass-cracker” means nothing here because it is NOT what was said; you could make the case for both fear of a pedophile AND using a racial slur (simultaneously — I know, who ever thought that Trayvon was that deep & complex; right?) by the use of the adjective “creepy” (or, if you will, “creepy-ass”) to modify the noun “cracker”.
Oh, and a minor fearing that a same-gendered adult may intend to sexually assault him isn’t “homophobic”. Of course, neither does it justify jumping on top of that adult and repeatedly slamming his head into the concrete.
Icy (bf16ac) — 6/27/2013 @ 12:25 pmWell, that’s more than was quoted in the Chicago Tribune today, which just used the Reuters story and truncated the phrase all the way down to “creepy”.
Bill Roper (334fb0) — 6/27/2013 @ 12:25 pmJD wrote:
I can, like, totally see how this could be!
Mante Te'o (3e4784) — 6/27/2013 @ 12:27 pmMr Stafford wrote:
Never had to visit the Hampton DMV, huh?
The Dana who used to live in Virginia (3e4784) — 6/27/2013 @ 12:29 pmSaint Skittles called him a “creepy ass cracker” according to Miss Florida Dee Dee Jeanlet.
Let’s talk about Paula Deans 30 year old comments.
Gus (694db4) — 6/27/2013 @ 12:35 pmI was told that this Obama person would unite the races. Or something.
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 6/27/2013 @ 12:35 pm“We’re not red states or blue states—we’re cracker states !”
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 6/27/2013 @ 12:39 pmComment by Bill Roper (334fb0) — 6/27/2013 @ 12:25 pm
Well, I guess one could commend the Chicago Tribune for at least being competent in their editing.
Barring what people in Florida do, which is an issue here, in Philly if a Black man says to me, “Hey cracker”, it is interpreted the same way a Black man interprets “Hey n-word” said by me. If it is a close friend that tolerates it tongue-in-cheek, fine; if said by an unknown person, it’s a vicious taunt.
Of course, I am not allowed to react the way a Black man is “allowed” to react if I use the n-word.
So whether or not “ass” is included in the phrase I think is pretty much beside the point,
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 6/27/2013 @ 12:41 pmwhich means the LATimes editor/writer doesn’t have as much knowledge of “real life” as they think.
At least that is my take on it.
I think Obama is a half cracka ass!
Gus (694db4) — 6/27/2013 @ 12:43 pmComment by Elephant Stone (6a6f37)
As I said before, I think maybe Dave Chapelle touring with that guy Jester linked to would do a better job of improving race relations,
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 6/27/2013 @ 12:44 pmor provoking an incident…
Which is ridiculous, but disliking her immensely for profiting by pushing a diabetes-inducing diet alongside diabetes meds is not.
Former Conservative (105295) — 6/27/2013 @ 12:52 pmThanks for bringing your perspective, ropelight; that’s important.
Former Conservative (105295) — 6/27/2013 @ 12:54 pmFormer Conservative,
When he said let’s talk about Paula Deen—he was just joking.
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 6/27/2013 @ 12:56 pmIt is almost if he had said, “Let’s not talk about Paula Deen.”
Yes, this.
It does seem odd that he mentioned a fear of sexual assault as opposed to just assault, but then I don’t know Martin’s history. Rapes and such do happen, plus from his point of view, he was being followed.
I am sure that the judge would allow them during Zimmermann’s defense. Martin’s physical prowess and hence seriousness as a threat in a fight is directly relevant.
Grounds for appeal if this wasn’t allowed.
Former Conservative (105295) — 6/27/2013 @ 1:04 pmropelight, would blacks be likely to use the benign form of “cracker”, or is “cracker” in its benign form be more likely used as one cracker to another?
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 6/27/2013 @ 1:04 pmOh come on, who does not like lard as a condiment on his hot dog.
Seriously, come on. Deen cuisine was not ever supposed to be something you made and ate, no more than a kwanza cake with canned apples and “egg corns”
It was entertainment. Good hearted southern charm and butter butter butter, topped with donuts and fried eggs. Alarming food no one would eat was half the fun.
SarahW (b0e533) — 6/27/2013 @ 1:05 pmI get it. However I came to dislike Deen for the reason I mentioned, and didn’t want to let a defense of her character stand without pointing out a counterpoint. I sort of appreciate her honest testimony about using that word in the past and largely having grown beyond that: I thought her firing, for that reason, was craven. But what she was doing was essentially the same as doing a show on great tobacco and chemo drugs.
Which should be legal. Of course.
Former Conservative (105295) — 6/27/2013 @ 1:09 pmLard is one of the four essential food groups. Just like bacon.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/27/2013 @ 1:12 pmSpeaking of newspapers! New York Times to Unload Boston Globe For Less Than 10% of the Price They Bought It At
Ouch.
Former Conservative (105295) — 6/27/2013 @ 1:12 pmActually, lard is good for you, just like bacon.
Former Conservative (105295) — 6/27/2013 @ 1:13 pmI was told that this Obama person would unite the races. Or something.
Comment by Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 6/27/2013 @ 12:35 pm
— Fear, distrust & vitriol all around?
UNITY!!!
Icy (bf16ac) — 6/27/2013 @ 1:58 pmFor some reason, all the television news programs bleeped the word “ass”
I wa snot aware that this was such a bad word.
I think actually the word “cracker” makes trayvon Martin look worse.
And the whole thing helps the defense, because it supplies a rather non-inviduous motive for Trayvon Martin to attack George Zimmerman.
Unless you believe his alleged assessment that George Zimmerman was crazy was right. (alleged because we’re relying on the testimony of one maybe not honest witness here) You’d also have to believe there are a lot of crazy crackers out there.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/27/2013 @ 2:19 pmNew Nabisco-Brand “Creepy-Ass Crackers©”
In Original White-Hispanic, and Aged-White Cheddar Flavor.
Pious Agnostic (20c167) — 6/27/2013 @ 2:19 pmThe whole national news media was editing out the word “ass.”
I don’t know how this consensus was reached.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/27/2013 @ 2:19 pmI would have liked Jeantel – by the way wasn’t she or someone earlier supposed to be in the Pacific time zone – to be asked about how uch time elapsed between her two phone calls.
Because the first part might be true – or at least jibes with what is known – and took place at least in part during the 911 call. GZ was following him in his car.
Now they could not have met up again till a few minutes later.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/27/2013 @ 2:22 pm“Get off me, get off me!”
get off, get off (without the word me) is supposed to have been heard during Rachel Jeantel’s her second call to TM.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/27/2013 @ 2:25 pm#102, MD in Philly asked: ropelight, would blacks be likely to use the benign form of “cracker”, or is “cracker” in its benign form be more likely used as one cracker to another?
Generally speaking it’s the latter, but not always, blacks can openly address whites as crackers without implied insult under certain circumstances. Other times it’s an insult and everyone knows it.
For example, cracker used by an older black woman to call out to a group of young white men, “Hey you cracker boys, come help be get my car started.” And, they’d gladly come help her, no offense given and none taken.
However, when TraMar called Zimmerman a creepy-ass cracker it was unquestionably a racial slur.
ropelight (d29d19) — 6/27/2013 @ 2:33 pmHave you ever been on a jury, Sammy? If so, how did it go?
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/27/2013 @ 2:40 pmLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL DRJ
JD (bdb1b0) — 6/27/2013 @ 2:42 pmOur buddy Corzine has finally been charged with something.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/06/27/charges-filed-against-mf-corzine
elissa (24b4c0) — 6/27/2013 @ 2:45 pmAlas, elissa, it appears that these are civil charges and not criminal charges. We may never get to see how Corzine looks in prison orange.
JVW (23867e) — 6/27/2013 @ 3:00 pmIt’s a civil lawsuit. That was always a more likely possibility than a criminal case, because for a criminmal case he has to know that what he’s asking for can’t legally be done.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/27/2013 @ 3:15 pmCorrection: What Rachel Jeantel said Trayvon MArtin called the man followingn nhim was a “creepy ass cracker” not “crazy ass cracker”
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/27/2013 @ 3:15 pmI listened to some of that video. I’m glad to know it wasn’t just me or the video feed but people in the courtroom had trouble hearing what she was saying.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/27/2013 @ 3:16 pmbecause for a criminmal case he has to know that what he’s asking for can’t legally be done.
He didnt know he couldn’t use customer money in the ways he did?!
JD (bdb1b0) — 6/27/2013 @ 3:16 pmIn addrion to calling GZ a “cracker” TM also called him a “n?gg?r.”
This actually makes sense and tends to support her honesty at least on that point. She expolained it was slang. The “slang” term seems to mean a person you are somewwhat distant from.
It rattled the prosecutor a bit who seemed to want to hint that maybe it could be a second person who was called a n?igg?r by Trayvon MArtin
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/27/2013 @ 3:18 pmOf course I am very interested in the timing of these calls, especially as it compares to otehr known points in time, like the GZ call to police or the 911 calls.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/27/2013 @ 3:19 pmComment by JD (bdb1b0) — 6/27/2013 @ 3:16 pm
He didnt know he couldn’t use customer money in the ways he did?!
Why should he? Is he an accountant?
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/27/2013 @ 3:19 pmHe was in a panic anyway. It was somebody else’s job to tell him no we can’t do that.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/27/2013 @ 3:20 pmHe didnt know he couldn’t use customer money in the ways he did?!
Why should he? Is he an accountant?
Are you effin serious?!?!?!?!?!?
JD (bdb1b0) — 6/27/2013 @ 3:22 pmMr rocks errs:
Actually, the four main food groups are sugar, salt, caffeine and cholesterol. Lard falls into the cholesterol group, while bacon is in both the cholesterol and salt groups.
With Mountain Dew satisfying both the sugar and caffeine groups, a plate of bacon and a can of Dew constitutes a completely balanced diet.
The nutritionist Dana (af9ec3) — 6/27/2013 @ 3:23 pmNot knowing and being in a panic are not defenses to criminal behavior. And it is inconceivable that he did not know. He founded the effin fund.
JD (bdb1b0) — 6/27/2013 @ 3:24 pmSammy do not go down this road. Please. The word “customers’ money” means it’s the customers’ money–not investment house money. He knew that.
elissa (24b4c0) — 6/27/2013 @ 3:25 pmSo how’re yer teeth nutritionist Dana?
elissa (24b4c0) — 6/27/2013 @ 3:26 pmthere is no commingling of funds, kind of the first rule.
narciso (3fec35) — 6/27/2013 @ 3:30 pmPork drippings, made the right way, for preserving pork in yearound, by 1) salting the pork, 2) smoking the pork, 3) boiling the pork, 4) putting the pork in large jars and covering to top with the skimmed off fat mixed with olive oil, are to die for, but the last time I had them I was a little kid in a Greek mountain village.
nk (875f57) — 6/27/2013 @ 3:41 pm#128 Well done, sir! LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EHsbIcV-6I
felipe (6100bc) — 6/27/2013 @ 3:42 pmSammy – Corzine’s securities industry licenses would have told him he ordered done was blatantly freaking illegal.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/27/2013 @ 4:02 pm#128 (af9ec3)
Dana,
Now yer talkin’!!!!
Bill M (e0a4e5) — 6/27/2013 @ 4:02 pmThe nutritionist Dana – I stand humbly corrected.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/27/2013 @ 4:03 pmHave you ever been on a jury, Sammy? If so, how did it go?
Comment by DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/27/2013 @ 2:40 pm
— Four weeks of deliberation, 15 hours per day, ending in a hung jury.
Eleven jurors hung themselves.
Icy (bf16ac) — 6/27/2013 @ 4:09 pmThat was funny, ICY.
elissa (c4cf6c) — 6/27/2013 @ 4:20 pmAh now that he’s chipped in, I understand now;
http://twitchy.com/2013/06/27/tommy-christopher-cracker-is-a-compliment-you-guys/
narciso (3fec35) — 6/27/2013 @ 4:21 pm115 Comment by DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/27/2013 @ 2:40 pm
Have you ever been on a jury, Sammy? If so, how did it go?
I came close, in a civil case, but as soon as I was called I rushed too fats to the front of the room and the lawyer changed his mind. It wasn
t bias.,
I think I am kind of excluded from a criminal case since I was once the victim of a crime.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/27/2013 @ 4:30 pmComment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/27/2013 @ 4:02 pm
Corzine’s securities industry licenses would have told him he ordered done was blatantly freaking illegal.
Did he know the precise limits of what he could do with what accounts?
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/27/2013 @ 4:32 pm141. Too fast. The lawyer noticed me rushing.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/27/2013 @ 4:33 pmImportant points:
Rachel Jeantel (they asked her how to spell her name but sources can’t seem to agree) said she had NOT been the girlfriend of Trayvon Martin.
That is, she said she knew him from elementary school, and then again when he came into her area. She said she was just a friend and had never dated him.
That of course would explain why she didn’t attend the funeral but she had to make up a story about being in the hospital.
The real question is: was she speaking to Trayvon Martin that night, and if so, why? She might be covering for a boyfriend who really was on the phone.
There’s so much at stake so many people involved that nothing can be taken fro granted.
She claimed or acknowledged she was also known as “Dede” No further explanation was offered.
Earlier the Martin family lawyers had said he was talking to Dede – or how did that name come up?
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/27/2013 @ 4:39 pmAbout the idea that maybe Trayvon Martin thought Geoirge Zimmerman was another Jerry Sandusky:
Rachel Jeantel testified that she brought up that very idea: maybe he was a rapist.
Bit she also testified that Trayvon Martin rejected that idea.
She said he told her to stop playing (with him)
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/27/2013 @ 4:41 pmComment by elissa (24b4c0) — 6/27/2013 @ 3:25 pm
Sammy do not go down this road. Please. The word “customers’ money” means it’s the customers’ money–not investment house money. He knew that.
They had some right to borrow it.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/27/2013 @ 4:42 pmSammy, licensed electricians know they need to shut the power off before they rewire a room. Licenced beauticians know that curling irons are hot and can burn a client’s ears. Licenced MD’s have to pass a test and take an oath. Practicing lawyers have to know the rules. So did Corzine have to know the most basic rules and ethics of his new profession. He was desperate and stole money from clients. Yes, he knew the limits of what he could do but he did it anyway. There are many times when you appear to defend someone in public life, Sammy, that it perplexes me. But trying to excuse or defend this criminal–this lying cheating thief takes the cake. He stole over a billion dollars from private accounts. These customers have been without most of their funds for years now. I am glad he is finally being forced to make restitution.
elissa (c4cf6c) — 6/27/2013 @ 4:47 pm“Did he know the precise limits of what he could do with what accounts?”
Sammy – Yes. You do not need to be an accountant to know you are not allowed to steal customer funds to prop up your failing firm. It is an easy call.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/27/2013 @ 4:52 pmSammy, please go offline and familiarize yourself with this case before you take any more blog space.
elissa (c4cf6c) — 6/27/2013 @ 4:53 pmSammy,
I’m sorry to hear you’ve been a crime victim. I hope you weren’t hurt.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/27/2013 @ 4:58 pmlol, elissa.
mg (31009b) — 6/27/2013 @ 4:59 pm“They had some right to borrow it.”
Sammy – The funds did not belong to MFS, they belonged to the customers. Without explicit permission of the customers, MFS had no right to touch the money.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/27/2013 @ 5:02 pmI feel comfortable describing this young woman as a “poor witness”, which is very charitable of me. But remember, this is Florida, the state that acquitted Casey Anthony, so anything is possible
Colonel Haiku (173ba5) — 6/27/2013 @ 5:02 pmand I got a gut feelin’ this won’t end well for Zimmerman.
Colonel Haiku (173ba5) — 6/27/2013 @ 5:02 pmSomewhere today I saw side-by-side face photos of Z from his booking and as he sits today at the defense table. He has obviously put on weight and the article I believe said he has gained 120 pounds since the night of the shooting.
elissa (c4cf6c) — 6/27/2013 @ 5:06 pmI’m not a lawyer, but isn’t “testifying about a conversation” usually called hearsay? I understand dying declarations, but this wasn’t that. Can someone with more expertise explain how her testifying about what Trayvon said is not hearsay?
Obviously it isn’t. I’m just wondering why.
Ghost (2d8874) — 6/27/2013 @ 5:07 pmDRJ – The police have still not apprehended the fiend who was absconding with Sammy’s New York Times delivery.
/sarc
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/27/2013 @ 5:07 pmFrom the Snowden thread, it was the Daily News that proffered that bit about Greenwald, instead of more substantial elements re his motivation,
narciso (3fec35) — 6/27/2013 @ 5:10 pmSammy, I mean no offense. I think you are a good person. I just think you often give the benefit of doubt to people who don’t deserve it, as well as to some situations way more than is warranted or logical when the totality of facts are considered.
elissa (c4cf6c) — 6/27/2013 @ 5:17 pmSammy,
I’m sorry to hear you’ve been a crime victim. I hope you weren’t hurt.
Comment by DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/27/2013 @ 4:58 pm
He suffered brain damage DRJ.
peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 6/27/2013 @ 5:23 pmWTF are you talking about? Whose boyfriend? Why would he be using her phone?
This comes across as pretty asinine. Any reason for this theory?
Former Conservative (6e026c) — 6/27/2013 @ 5:24 pmSo you claim you believe that somebody else was responsible for telling the Chairman and CEO of a CFTC regulated firm what his fiduciary duties were to his customers. That the Chairman and CEO of a CFTC regulated firm would be aware of CFTC customer protection regulations.
Is that your final answer, Sammy?
Steve57 (ab2b34) — 6/27/2013 @ 5:26 pmRemember, it’s all about Snowden.
Icy (bf16ac) — 6/27/2013 @ 5:31 pmWASHINGTON (AP) – The Obama administration gathered U.S. citizens’ Internet data until 2011, continuing a spying program started under President George W. Bush that revealed whom Americans exchanged emails with and the Internet Protocol address of their computer, documents disclosed Thursday show. The National Security Agency ended the program that collected email logs and timing, but not content, in 2011 because it decided it didn’t effectively stop terrorist plots, according to the NSA’s director, Gen. Keith Alexander, who also heads the U.S. Cyber Command. He said all data was purged in 2011.
I’m not a lawyer, have never played one on TV, but have spent many a night in Holiday Inns. Having said that, are the bald-headed fellow and the guy who parts his hair down the middle the best defense team Florida has to offer?
Colonel Haiku (173ba5) — 6/27/2013 @ 5:34 pmhttp://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323873904578571681994899150.html
He knew what he was doing was wrong but he did it anyway to conceal the fact he was running the company into the ground.
Steve57 (ab2b34) — 6/27/2013 @ 5:35 pmHe’s the head of the local bar association, unraveling the truth is like pulling mammoth tusks,
narciso (3fec35) — 6/27/2013 @ 5:36 pmr.e. 162.
*That the Chairman and CEO of a CFTC regulated firm would not be aware of CFTC customer protection regulations.*
Steve57 (ab2b34) — 6/27/2013 @ 5:37 pmelissa asked:
They’re there, after sixty years, they’re still there.
The Dana who goes to the dentist regularly (af9ec3) — 6/27/2013 @ 6:30 pmelissa wrote:
One of the electricians with whom I worked — and we worked on 440-three phase for running concrete plants — had a little black bite out of every tool he owned. Bruce’s method for finding the right beaker was to stick a screwdriver into the receptacle, hear it go Pow! and then see which breaker had been tripped.
The sparktrician Dana (af9ec3) — 6/27/2013 @ 6:37 pmLooking at the late Mr Martin’s girlfriend, would it be wrong of me to say that his life was essentially over before he ever met Mr Zimmerman? 😆
The very mean Dana (af9ec3) — 6/27/2013 @ 6:44 pmRest easy. She was not his girlfriend, Dana. That Romeo and Juliet story was manufactured out of whole cloth by Crump and the media.
elissa (c4cf6c) — 6/27/2013 @ 6:47 pm65 BfC “I believe that Cracker may also be a Floridian term for…”
According to Thomas Sowell, the term goes back to England where it was used to describe people in certain regions that America’s “crackers” came from.
pst314 (ae6bd1) — 6/27/2013 @ 6:48 pmVery mean Dana!…
her neck so fat that
Colonel Haiku (7f941f) — 6/27/2013 @ 6:50 pmdollars to donuts bet they
ain’t no donuts left
Rachel Jeantel says that the people she associates with call whites “cracker” all the time.
This public admission threatens liberal efforts to deny the existence of black racism.
pst314 (ae6bd1) — 6/27/2013 @ 6:55 pmelissa wrote:
With worms that are thy chamber-maids; O, here
Will I set up my everlasting rest,
And shake the yoke of inauspicious stars
From this world-wearied flesh. Eyes, look your last!
Arms, take your last embrace! and, lips, O you
The doors of breath, seal with a righteous kiss
A dateless bargain to engrossing death!
Come, bitter conduct, come, unsavoury guide!
Thou desperate pilot, now at once run on
The dashing rocks thy sea-sick weary bark!
Here’s to my love!
(Drinks)
O true vigilante!
The Shakespearean Dana (af9ec3) — 6/27/2013 @ 6:59 pmThy gun is quick. Thus with a curse I die.
Yeah ShakespeareanDana, the Tray- Rachael “relationship” was pretty much not like that at all. 🙂
elissa (c4cf6c) — 6/27/2013 @ 7:04 pmThere was a young witness Jeantel
The Limerick Avenger (af9ec3) — 6/27/2013 @ 7:05 pmWhose testimony did not go well
If she’s all they’ve got
Their case will go rot
And Zim will not sit in a cell!
But remember, this is Florida, the state that acquitted Casey Anthony, so anything is possible
Even more so since we do live in an age of idiocy, of liberalism run amok. So Anthony, oozing guilt, was acquitted, while Zimmerman, for purely political reasons, very easily could end up the flip side of her, or OJ.
A variation of that was a link posted in one of these threads about a blogger who has been refused entry to Britain because he’s deemed by authorities there as being guilty of the crime of saying that Islamo-fascism is Islamo-fascistic. The kicker is the blogger noted that at the same time the door has been shut in his face, a well-know Middle-Eastern, Sharia-law-spouting fanatic is given a bow and curtsy and granted a visa to the UK.
Or how about a new poll out of Rasmussen that reveals a surprisingly large percentage of liberals in the US fear the Tea Party more than terrorist groups like Al Qaeda. Or shades of Michael “Nanny-state” Bloomberg — the epitome of a limousine liberal — after the attempted bombing of Times Square a few years ago, when he theorized the act may have been the work of Tea Partyers.
Once again, we live in an age of stupidity. Total, full-blown stupidity. Stupidity that’s draped in a phony veneer of compassion and tied with a ribbon of — to coin a huh? phrase (but it’s still accurate) — bigoted tolerance.
Mark (67e579) — 6/27/2013 @ 7:37 pmWeaselzippers has a very nice Zimmerman-Martin post up for all you Tommy Xopher fans. With a picture!!
http://weaselzippers.us/
elissa (c4cf6c) — 6/27/2013 @ 8:13 pmSo that’s what Tommy Christopher looks like? Huh.
JVW (23867e) — 6/27/2013 @ 8:16 pm“I heard grass – wet grass.”
F**kin priceless. This is the state’s star witness, folks.
Is Dave Surls still around? He was the devils advocate on this topic for quite a few threads.
Ghost (2d8874) — 6/27/2013 @ 8:25 pmSurls wants the prosecution to ask her if the other voice she heard over the phone sounded like a skinhead.
Icy (bf16ac) — 6/27/2013 @ 8:36 pmOnce again Patterico saves the day.
AZ Bob (c11d35) — 6/27/2013 @ 8:37 pmJust for fun, I want the defense to ask Miss DeeDee Crump Rachel Jeanlet.
Miss Rachel Deedee Crump Jeanlet. HOW MUCH DO YOU WEIGH???
Gus (694db4) — 6/27/2013 @ 9:30 pmGus wrote:
At which point, District Attorney Hamilton Berger leaps to his feet and yells, “I object, your honor! The question is irrelevant, incompetent and immaterial.”
Perry Mason (3e4784) — 6/28/2013 @ 3:38 amFrom the very beginning the prosecution in this case has presented their side in a manner such that the defense has looked weak and unbelievable.
Moreover, the opening joke given by the defense in their opening statement fell flat, just as the meandering cross of the first witness was unimpressive.
So far, the prosecution has made it appear that Zimmerman was the aggressor.
For whatever reason, the peanut gallery here seems to be behaving as if we are watching a sporting event in which one picks a team to cheer for. This is rather weird, in my view.
I am waiting to see how the defense rolls out their case. So far, I would expect that Zimmerman is none too pleased.
Gramps2 (3096f4) — 6/28/2013 @ 5:43 amAs usual, you must be watching the alternate universe version of the trial.
Hube (4d0abc) — 6/28/2013 @ 6:07 amI love how Perry projects his actions onto others.
JD (0819f1) — 6/28/2013 @ 6:23 amSeriously, JD. How many names does this person use? And isn’t that, well, kinda weird?
Simon Jester (f5785f) — 6/28/2013 @ 6:26 amSo far only 2, Simon, and not for much longer. He has been given multiple opportunities to admit that gramps2 is Perry, using a different name and IP to get around his prior moderation. A little honest on his part LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL could go a long way for him.
JD (0819f1) — 6/28/2013 @ 6:32 amHow many names does this person use?
More tellingly, his current screen name suggests he is an old geezer.
Nothing more revealing and pathetic than when a person of the left is well past middle age. It indicates an intrinsic form of immaturity, an innate lack of common sense.
Mark (67e579) — 6/28/2013 @ 6:32 amSo say those who claim the right to free speech, to which I of course agree.
Why is the name, or age, so much more important than the message?
And I note that most of you do not use your real names. So what is the gripe? Answer: It’s all about politics and the wish to dominate instead of debating and discussing.
What is it that you people fear so much?
Gramps2 (3096f4) — 6/28/2013 @ 7:18 amHe claims not to have known it was customer money. He was told it was a house account, and had no reason to question that. To bring criminal charges the prosecutor would have to prove otherwise.
Milhouse (3d0df0) — 6/28/2013 @ 7:25 amAnd I note that most of you do not use your real names. So what is the gripe? Answer: It’s all about politics and the wish to dominate instead of debating and discussing.
Commenters who do not use a consistent name, and/or who use a proxy to post, are subject to banning. Those are the stated rules. Patterico is not the government. He gets to define his rules here. You choose to ignore them. Flaunt them. Maybe you will try to mess with somebody’s job again.
Perry – was your last comment as gramps2 a tacit admission of you using multiple names and IP’s to get around your prior moderation? Is gramps2 your real name? Are you ever honest?
JD (0819f1) — 6/28/2013 @ 7:30 amHe claims not to have known it was customer money.
Ignorance is a common excuse. It is practically an epidemic.
JD (0819f1) — 6/28/2013 @ 7:31 amGramps2 wrote:
The issue isn’t one of using a pseudonym; the issue is one of consistency, as per our host’s rules:
Now, I get away with a lot in that regard, but I do because I always include my site url: no one is confused or deceived in any way as to whom I am, nor does anyone think that I am trying to be deceptive. (The multiple adjectives are to distinguish me from a much better looking commenter who identifies herself simply as Dana.)
The Dana who gets away with a lot (3e4784) — 6/28/2013 @ 7:46 amI have heard an alternate theory: looking at Mr Martin’s alleged girlfriend, it has been speculated that he used Mr Zimmerman’s gun to kill himself.
The conspiracy theorist Dana (3e4784) — 6/28/2013 @ 7:50 amNow, that’s funny.
ropelight (172ac9) — 6/28/2013 @ 8:04 amWhy is the name, or age, so much more important than the message?
In my case, when I see the comments of a liberal, I try to envision the person they’re coming from and generally think of someone who’s younger rather than older. I truly am puzzled by a person who’s gone through decades of life, who’s presumably witnessed innumerable years of human nature (both pro and con) and real-life situations, and yet remain wedded to what probably was his or her ideology when still a teenager or young adult, around his 20s, early 30s.
Yea, it’s a bit snarky to describe such a person as suffering from “arrested maturity,” but is it just as snarky to be baffled (and disturbed) by an old woman (who’s around, say, 70 years old) wearing the clothing of a 25-year-old, super high-heel shoes and all?
Mark (67e579) — 6/28/2013 @ 8:06 amAs on television we watch this trial,
An episode as sordid as can be,
Surely there are moments that make us smile,
But will Justice be something that we’ll see?
For, yea, though we strive to do what is right,
Much lays on the mem’ry of this witness,
To tell us what happened that fateful night,
It’s too bad that she is just so witless!
The end we know not, but ’twill come in time,
‘Twill it be justice, or just the railroad?
And if it be justice, will we then find,
That the left will dissolve in riot mode?
What can be done, for this trial has now made
The Sonnet Avenger (3e4784) — 6/28/2013 @ 8:10 amJustice divided, based on Zim’s skin shade!
“He claims not to have known it was customer money. He was told it was a house account, and had no reason to question that.”
Milhouse – This is a man who used to be co-head of Goldman Sachs. He came up through the trading side of Goldman. At MFS he was trading for the firm’s own account and leveraging the firm to the hilt. The idea that Corzine did not understand his own balance sheet is ludicrous.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/28/2013 @ 8:40 amMr rocks wrote:
The honorable Mr Corzine bought himself a Senate seat, then bought himself a gubernatorial chair, all as a Democrat. The notion that he would have some concept that not all money was his money stretches credulity quite a bit.
The financial wizard Dana (3e4784) — 6/28/2013 @ 8:47 amAnd it is a valid defense to criminal charges. Which is why he is not being charged with a crime.
Milhouse (3d0df0) — 6/28/2013 @ 8:58 amWhat he claims is that he didn’t know the nature of that account. He was told it was a house account; go prove he he knew otherwise.
Milhouse (3d0df0) — 6/28/2013 @ 9:00 am“The notion that he would have some concept that not all money was his money stretches credulity quite a bit.”
Mr. Wizard – Indeed, and that attitude partly explains why New Jersey voters selected Chris Christie to succeed him as governor.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/28/2013 @ 9:00 am#199, Mark, there are sad people who crave attention so desperately they willingly make fools of themselves in public rather than just fade into the shadows of old age and insignificance.
Like the old lady in inappropriate high heels desperate for recognition running her shopping cart over your foot to provoke a reaction. She’d rather be yelled at than ignored.
That’s Perry. He can no longer command the attention of high school adolescents so he’s reduced to subterfuge, insult, and idiotic pronouncements on the Internet as a substitute mechanism to gain attention – a reaction, any reaction. For Perry, even scorn and the pain of opprobrium are preferable to obscurity and anonymity.
So, why does Perry make stupid statements, conceal his identity, and stalk sites where he’s been banned? The pathetic old fool can’t help himself, his method of operation is his message, the content of his comments are just a transparent means to an ignoble end.
ropelight (172ac9) — 6/28/2013 @ 9:01 amThe advantage of the civil charge is that they don’t have to prove he knew whose money it was. The fact that it happened is enough to demonstrate that he didn’t supervise his subordinates enough, and that makes him liable.
Milhouse (3d0df0) — 6/28/2013 @ 9:01 am“What he claims is that he didn’t know the nature of that account.”
Milhouse – He can claim whatever he wants. Saying it was an innocent mistake to tap the only unencumbered funds on his balance sheet to try to save his firm because he did not know or somebody misinformed him of the nature of account is his only defense. It is a ludicrous defense. Feel free to keep repeating your comment.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/28/2013 @ 9:09 amComment by elissa (c4cf6c) — 6/27/2013 @ 6:47 pm
She was not his girlfriend, Dana. That Romeo and Juliet story was manufactured out of whole cloth by Crump and the media.
That’s of course why she lied about her age (making herself younger than Trayvon Martin, rather than older)
That’s why she lied about her reason for not attending the funeral (she just wasn’t close to him – now she says she didn’t want to see him dead after she had just talked to him)
I hear that she was confronted with several different versions of the conversation that she had told.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/28/2013 @ 9:15 amShe spoke to Crump (the Trayvon family lawyer) in March 2012 from a closet in her home?
Why was it important to her that no one close to her overhear the conversation?
She says she knew it was being recorded (maybe she has to say that in order not to make Crump guilty of a crime under Florida law) but not that an ABC reporter would be there and that it would be broadcast.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/28/2013 @ 9:18 am“… but is it just as snarky to be baffled (and disturbed) by an old woman (who’s around, say, 70 years old) wearing the clothing of a 25-year-old, super high-heel shoes and all?”
Wow, Mark. I don’t know how to Un-picture that in my mind. Now all I can visualize is Perry in a pink thong. God help me.
Hoagie (3259ab) — 6/28/2013 @ 9:38 amHoagie wrote:
So, naturally you had to help the rest of us visualize that, too.
The Dana who just barfed up his curry chicken lunch special (3e4784) — 6/28/2013 @ 9:41 amI’m so pretty. So so pretty.
—Perry
JD (b63a52) — 6/28/2013 @ 9:58 am“So, naturally you had to help the rest of us visualize that, too.”
Dana – Perry would probably put that banana hammock on backwards too, but I’m told there are some chicks who dig that look. I’ve seen pictures of them shopping at WalMart.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/28/2013 @ 9:58 amJeralyn over at TalkLeft has done several days of really stellar work researching and analyzing legal aspects and inconsistencies in this case– and how it got where it is. She is particularly interested in the creation both of the narrative, and the “16 year old girlfriend” which involved the early work of Crump, Trayvon’s parents, and Rachel.
One of the many interesting things is that Rachel said in several statements or recorded depositions that she feels “guilty”. I think she told Trayvon’s mom that, too. That is a strange thing for Rachel to say since she was on the phone in another location completely. One might feel spooked or sad to know they were one of the last persons to talk to a murder victim. But guilt? It makes you consider whether our friend Rachel, who knew Trayvon’s thuggish tendency to get into fights, may have egged on Trayvon to “get that guy”. If only she knows she was part of, or even instrumental to the confrontation decision which (inadvertently) ended Trayvon’s life it may be really messing her up–not to mention affecting the truth of her testimony. Trayvon circling around and coming back to confront Z after Z says he thought he was gone, could certainly support this possibility.
elissa (d03d59) — 6/28/2013 @ 11:08 amPatrick–
The LA Times doesn’t matter.
The LA Times doesn’t matter.
The LA Times. Does. Not. Matter.
Nobody reads it in DC or NY (despite many decades of laughably pathetic attempts by one LAT management group after another to change that.)
And in LA? Plummeting daily and Sunday circulation. (If you call them and say you want to subscribe, they’ll give it to you for like a nickel a month, and probably toss in a late-model SUV if you asked real nice.)
At my house, meanwhile, they keep tossing it on the driveway for free every few mornings, hoping they’ll tempt me into renewing a subscription I ended with an immensely satisfying phone call several years ago. I have put them on notice that if this practice (which my attorney refers to in his letters as “willful and targeted littering” does not stop, I will sue for injunctive and punitive relief, and will also send letters to some of their major display advertisers, questioning whether circulation levels claimed by the paper’s ad department include “readers” like me.
I know, I’m wasting good time. Can’t help myself, too much fun.
But at least I don’t actually READ the thing.
You do.
Stop.
The LA Times doesn’t matter.
Kevin Stafford (1d1b9e) — 6/28/2013 @ 11:44 amComment by Kevin Stafford (1d1b9e) — 6/28/2013 @ 11:44 am
The LA Times doesn’t matter….Nobody reads it in DC or NY
It used to be included in the National Newspaper index, which indexed I think 5 newspapers, the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Post and I don’t know what else..
Oh, it still exists: http://library.apsu.edu/inform/21natnewsind.htm
But is not as widely available as before.
The 5th newspaper was/is the Christian Science Monitor.
But this is a little important first for California and, second as an example, and third, it is one of the top 50 or 100 Internet sources, but that would apply more to op-ed pieces or highly touted investigative articles.
A week ago, on June 20, the Atlantic Wire, which every weekday has an email of the top 5 columns, inlcuded one from the Los Angeles Post. (By the way sometimes a squib will have three or even more links to things online.)
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/28/2013 @ 1:46 pmComment by elissa (c4cf6c) — 6/27/2013 @ 4:47 pm
There are many times when you appear to defend someone in public life, Sammy, that it perplexes me.
I tend to judge people favorably, unless I already think the person has certain characteristics (Clinton, Putin, the Taliban) and even when I judge unfavorably I don’t want to make it worse than what it is.
He might have barked out some instructions that others should have ignored. Perhaps nobody wanted to tell him there was no money. and if the company failed, they actually turned out worse than Corzine. Now it might be worse too, and he knew exactly what was going on, and wanted to sell out before anyone found out.
There is another thing. The customer funds are not absolutely inviolate. They regularly had more money in the account than needed and took out money. And I think it only had to be reconciled at the close of the business day.
A Risk Once Unthinkable
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/28/2013 @ 2:21 pmWe have this:
Is MF Global Getting a Free Pass?
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/28/2013 @ 2:22 pmThere’s also this: (which might only mean some people thought what they did was legal) E-Mail to Corzine Said Transfer Was Not Customer Money – Mar 25, 2012
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/28/2013 @ 2:25 pmYep, Sammy. Upon further review it looks pretty bad for ex-Gov. Corzine, doesn’t it? Of course, politicians in high places are so used to doing whatever they want with other people’s money (the taxpayers’ money) and never having to answer for it, that you can see what may have led Democrat Corzine to get so sloppy and reckless when he got to MF Global. Oops.
elissa (d03d59) — 6/28/2013 @ 2:37 pmThe LA Times doesn’t matter.
Here’s an appropriate tribute and salute to them:
They’d be tanking regardless of their biases, regardless of their wacky leftist slant, since we all live in the age of a new economy, of the Internet and iPhones. But the LA Times possibly would be in a wee bit less in a swoon if they didn’t almost go out of their way to alienate (or piss off) a part of their existing or potential readership.
When various segments of American society, including quite a few staffers at the LA Times, subscribe to the “goddamn America” ethos of modern-day liberalism (and its prime supporter in the Oval Office), they deserve to reap what they sow.
Mark (67e579) — 6/28/2013 @ 10:42 pm172 pst314 “According to Thomas Sowell, the term goes back to England where it was used to describe people in certain regions that America’s ‘crackers’ came from.”
I was wrong: Thomas Sowell wrote about “redneck” coming from England. He did not write about “cracker”.
pst314 (ae6bd1) — 6/29/2013 @ 4:26 amSowell has said the black urban culture (anti-school etc) was really redneck culture.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 7/1/2013 @ 2:41 pm