Patterico's Pontifications

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/100222637/barack-obama-bombs-in-berlin-a-weak-underwhelming-address-from-a-floundering-president/

narciso (3fec35) — 6/20/2013 @ 6:50 am

What Hilzik wasn’t available;

http://observer.com/2013/06/msnbc-com-hires-irin-carmon-timothy-noah-and-others/

narciso (3fec35) — 6/20/2013 @ 6:51 am

Some will like the decision, others won’t. Many won’t care one way or the other.

steve (369bc6) — 6/20/2013 @ 6:52 am

It will either be Glorious step forward, or cold bitter clinging that will merit a stern talking to;

https://patterico.com/2006/09/25/slate-error-on-benedicts-speech-corrected/

narciso (3fec35) — 6/20/2013 @ 6:56 am

For the non-clickers, here’s the money quote from narciso’s link at #1:

In front of the Brandenburg Gate, Obama sounded more like the president of the European Commission than the leader of the free world. It is never a good sign when a US president parrots the language of a Brussels bureaucrat when he is supposed to be a champion of freedom. Obama’s distinctly unimpressive speech in Berlin was another dud from a floundering president whose leadership abroad is just as weak as it is at home.

ropelight (06e4a4) — 6/20/2013 @ 7:03 am

gay marriage is the future

even if Team R doubles down on the hate it’s still the future

I blame the liberal media

happyfeet (8ce051) — 6/20/2013 @ 7:07 am

Prop 8 upheld, DOMA upheld, 6-3, Kenendy writing for the majority. (I’m always wrong on these predictions.)

nk (875f57) — 6/20/2013 @ 7:09 am

we are so fortunate to have him;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22983660

narciso (3fec35) — 6/20/2013 @ 7:11 am

3. Some will like the decision, others won’t. Many won’t care one way or the other.

Comment by steve (369bc6) — 6/20/2013 @ 6:52 am

Many of those who think they can afford not to care now will find out they will be forced to care later when the government infringes upon the their 1st Amendment free speech and religious rights for the higher cause of LGBT equality.

You do realize that’s what this is all about? Freeing government from the restrictions the founders placed upon it.

Steve57 (ab2b34) — 6/20/2013 @ 7:26 am

6. gay marriage is the future

even if Team R doubles down on the hate it’s still the future

I blame the liberal media

Comment by happyfeet (8ce051) — 6/20/2013 @ 7:07 am

By hate you must mean the Bill of Rights.

Steve57 (ab2b34) — 6/20/2013 @ 7:28 am

even if Team R doubles down on the hate it’s still the future

Just like you hate polygamy, hp? Like the various occasions you’ve mocked people in multi-partner relationships, implying they’re trailer trash.

Mark (fa6d93) — 6/20/2013 @ 7:31 am

speaking of the two minute hate;

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-trial-live-jury-selection-day-9-all-day-coverage/#comments

narciso (3fec35) — 6/20/2013 @ 8:13 am

the Bill of Rights is my favorite set of amendments but that was before the pervert Roberts court up and decided that going forward they’ll just do whatever the hell they like

happyfeet (c60db2) — 6/20/2013 @ 8:24 am

Althouse live blogged and Gay Marriage “will have to wait ’til next week”.

Perfect, nothing to compete with my laundry.

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 6/20/2013 @ 8:38 am

Many of those who think they can afford not to care now will find out they will be forced to care later when the government infringes upon the their 1st Amendment free speech and religious rights for the higher cause of LGBT equality.

Comment by Steve57 (ab2b34) — 6/20/2013 @ 7:26 am

In anticipation of the ruling — which I don’t expect to be happy with — I will cut and paste (with brevity edits) what I wrote here at Patterico on May 19, 2008. That’s when the California Supreme Court overturned Proposition 22, the 2000 voter initiative that simply specified in California’s Family code that marriage was exclusively defined as one man-one woman (61.4% approval). Proposition 8, which, amended the state’s constitution to define marriage, was already in the works in the case that the Cal Supremes shredded Prop. 22.

This will be quite a flashback to people who remember “Levi,” the childish troll.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Levi, evading an obvious point that reveals his intellectual dishonesty, wrote:

I wouldn’t have made that argument in 1948. I would have said, “Yes, we should let blacks marry whites, and further, we should let men marry men and women marry women.” So to defend your paltry ’slippery slope’ argument against gay marriage you have to pretend like you’d know what I’d say in a different time, with different circumstances, against a different argument. Yeah, you’re not reaching here.

*Sigh*…Focus, Leev, focus.Let me make this simple enough for you to understand (and I hope I can do that without permanently lowering my IQ): You stated with your usual level of confidence that Justice Boy George’s wide-ranging decision wouldn’t lead to other breakdowns of societal norms:

The government isn’t just going to start handing out marriage licenses for everyone, okay? That’s just a stupid thing to get hung up on. Beastiality (sic), pedophelia (sic), and polygamy are all still going to be illegal, no matter what happens on the gay marriage issue. Can you just trust my word on this one? There’s not a horde of lawyers waiting over the horizon that’s going to come in and ruin your world by abridging every sex law on the books, don’t be so paranoid.

If you want to be consistent and logical, it makes perfect sense to assume that someone who would say George’s opinion in In re Marriage Cases could not possibly lead to further extra-legislative liberalization of marriage statutes would have said the same in 1948, when the issue was not marriage of people of the same sex, but people of the opposite sex.But, as we now know, George styled his wide-ranging, overreaching, outcome-based decision on the Perez vs. Sharp case and his unfounded legal judgment that homosexuality is as immutable as ethnicity. Such a viewpoint is doubly ridiculous when you consider that the courts are willing to accept that gender is NOT immutable, and that one can make a legally-binding declaration that his or her biology has nothing at all to do with whether s/he is male or female!Sodomy would not be decriminalized in California for another twenty-one years after Perez! Who was the driving force behind that legislation? Gavin Newsom’s predecessor in S.F. City Hall, Willie Brown, then a member of the State Assembly. Since then, LGBT CA legislators like former actress Sheila Kuehl, former L.A. councilwoman Jackie Goldberg, former S.F. Supervisors Mark Leno & Carole Migden […] have stealthily engineered and passed laws designed to make sure public school instruction teaches Kindergarten kids that if their parents believe gay isn’t OK, they’re either wrong, stupid, hateful, or a combination of all three. The teachers’ unions (who are in full force behind the radical gay agenda even if all individual members are not) cooperate in policies designed to maximize activism of students declaring they aren’t straight, strategize ways to prevent parents from knowing they are teaching children about gay sex, and enforce gag orders on all students or teachers who dare disagree. In an indirect way, even Ronald Reagan has a share in the lead-up to this decision when you consider that he set the tone throughout the nation in endorsing no-fault divorce as Governor. The unintended consequence of no-fault was to truly make marriage “a piece of paper,” a contract that could be ripped into shreds at any time for any reason by either party. All of that happened after 1969 courtesy of the Jesse Unruh political machine that brought us the Browns (Willie & Jerry), Speaker Pelosi, Senators Feinstein & Boxer, and just about any other Democrat of prominence in California going back forty years.So in this post-miscegenation law, post-sodomy law, post-traditional marriage atmosphere in which we exist that no reasonable person could have foretold, when you declare that you would have boldly asserted before the halfway point of the previous century that there should be same-sex marriage in California, I can’t take that seriously […] Once again, consistency and logic dictates that should the day come when a California judge looks to In re Marriage Cases as a beacon to allow plural, minor, or interspecies marriage, someone with your current point of view will say, “Had I been around in 2008, I would have said, ‘Yes, we should let men marry men and women marry women, and we should allow polygamy, child marriage, and the sacred union of love between a man and his sheep.’” Comment by L.N. Smithee (a0b21b) — 5/19/2008 @ 3:15 pm

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

L.N. Smithee (497e1c) — 6/20/2013 @ 8:52 am

I swear, there were paragraph breaks there when I hit “Submit Comment”.

L.N. Smithee (497e1c) — 6/20/2013 @ 8:53 am

My prediction is Prop8 upheld, DOMA section 3 overturned.

Steve57, I would take today’s decision in the AID case as a suggestion that your first amendment fears are overblown. In that (entirely correct IMO) case, a 6-2 majority overturned as unconstitutional a law which required that recipients of federal anti-AIDS/Malaria/TB moneys have an official policy condemning prostitution.

aphrael (1ead15) — 6/20/2013 @ 9:08 am

I saw that, too, aphrael. Nice to see you too, BTW. I learned that the First Amendment was a curb on the tax and spend power, maybe the only one, in law school, and I was pleased to see that it is still recognized.

nk (875f57) — 6/20/2013 @ 9:13 am

There is no such thing as homosexual marriage. Marriage by definition is the union of a man and woman in holy matrimony. Stop with your newspeak.

NJRob (e2499c) — 6/20/2013 @ 9:49 am

aphrael, I don’t believe for a moment that my concerns are overblown. The Obama administration just got called out by a Navy judge for exercising unlawful command influence.

http://www.politico.com/politico44/2013/06/obama-exerted-unlawful-command-influence-in-speaking-166288.html

I realize that unlawful command influence is only a formal concept within the military justice system, but the fact is it’s how they roll. Retaliation against people who aren’t on board with their policies is the order of the day. I’m sure you’ve seen the surveys from military personnel that indicated the repeal of DADT was a non-issue?

The statistics were skewed by the fact that only a few officers and NCOs who were opposed to the repeal participated. The rest knew full well they’d only become targets for retaliation. And they didn’t want to use the uniquely identifying logins and passwords they were assigned to take the survey and sign up for reeducation camp or worse.

Steve57 (ab2b34) — 6/20/2013 @ 10:37 am

Once the government quit blood testing to stop the spread of STD and genetic imcompatabilities they needed to get out of the business entirely. That means no more license fees and fat clerks hassling people. And that just wouldn’t do.

glenn (f3a9d6) — 6/20/2013 @ 11:01 am

Another Dem wedge squirrel issue, which will be used to distract from their corruption and failures.

JD (b63a52) — 6/20/2013 @ 11:04 am

Do married Lesbian libtard women get impregnated just so they can exercise their right to kill their baby??

Catholic Dana (694db4) — 6/20/2013 @ 11:13 am

The statistics were skewed by the fact that only a few officers and NCOs who were opposed to the repeal participated. The rest knew full well they’d only become targets for retaliation.

Really? Let’s never send them into combat, then. Talk about becoming a target.

nk (875f57) — 6/20/2013 @ 11:17 am

The Zeitgeist has left the building, Dog stranded and forgotten. Niles Gardiner of the Telegraph:

“Obama’s distinctly unimpressive speech in Berlin was another dud from a floundering president whose leadership abroad is just as weak as it is at home.”

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 6/20/2013 @ 11:21 am

Do married Lesbian libtard women get impregnated just so they can exercise their right to kill their baby??
Comment by Catholic Dana (694db4) — 6/20/2013 @ 11:13 am

I don’t know about Lesbian retard but I do know about one married Catholic woman who did.

nk (875f57) — 6/20/2013 @ 11:23 am

“There is no such thing as homosexual marriage. Marriage by definition is the union of a man and woman in holy matrimony. Stop with your newspeak.”

– NJRob

Help help, I’m being repressed! Come see the violence inherent in the system!

Leviticus (b98400) — 6/20/2013 @ 11:34 am

23. The statistics were skewed by the fact that only a few officers and NCOs who were opposed to the repeal participated. The rest knew full well they’d only become targets for retaliation.

Really? Let’s never send them into combat, then. Talk about becoming a target.

Comment by nk (875f57) — 6/20/2013 @ 11:17 am
</blockquote

Many of them have been in combat. But feel free to make light of the fact they'd lose their careers in addition to to whatever sacrifices they had already made.

Steve57 (ab2b34) — 6/20/2013 @ 11:36 am

Yes Steve57, poor homosexuals being picked on by the IRS. Oh wait??

Catholic Dana (694db4) — 6/20/2013 @ 11:50 am

“even if Team R D doubles down on the hate it’s still the future”

hateyfeet – FTFY

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/20/2013 @ 11:58 am

The DOW is down 340 points. This, after Bernanke announced that ‘quantitative easing’ will continue.

Icy gulrud (39a750) — 6/20/2013 @ 12:07 pm

Help help, I’m being repressed! Come see the violence inherent in the system!

Comment by Leviticus (b98400) — 6/20/2013 @ 11:34 am

Words have meaning. Sorry they didn’t teach you that before you remained a perpetual adolescent.

NJRob (e2499c) — 6/20/2013 @ 12:18 pm

So which of the last 4 Supreme Court decisions will Kennedy write? I read the odds are Kennedy will write the Fisher case. If so, I hope he tries to be as forceful in his opinion as he was at oral argument. Here are Rick Hasen’s guesses on the last 4 cases.

Also, here is an article on the Voting Rights case. Is Rep. Lewis threatening violence if Democrats don’t like the result?

DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/20/2013 @ 12:21 pm

I’m really glad this is an open thread. I have a question, which maybe someone here can answer.

If you follow this link, http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/06/doofus-charles-johnson-falls-for-bogus-tea-party-rally-shot-to-bash-conservatives/

You will see a couple screen shots of tweets. One tweet is from (in bold-face type) FreedomWorks Panda, under which title appears “the at symbol Nicole Genette”. Is that the same young woman who was involved in the Weiner business, or just someone with a similar name?

I honestly have no idea, and I do not expect anyone to spend any more time than it takes to tell me yes, she is the same person, or no, she is not.

Thank you!

Dianna (b7aa4f) — 6/20/2013 @ 12:24 pm

I don’t think so, Dianna. I think her name was Gennette Cordova.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/20/2013 @ 12:34 pm

Genette Nicole Cordova

JD (91f8a8) — 6/20/2013 @ 12:46 pm

There were one or more “Gennette Nicole” sock accounts that popped up on twitter, when weiner trutherism was a thing. One of them was a johnsonesque troll. Probably it’s not her.

SarahW (b0e533) — 6/20/2013 @ 12:54 pm

Thank you, DRJ, JD and Sarah.

I figured if I asked, I would get an answer that made sense, and I was right!

Dianna (b7aa4f) — 6/20/2013 @ 1:02 pm

Is Charles Johnson still flailing about with his little fascist footballs website ?

Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 6/20/2013 @ 1:13 pm

thank you mr. daley I get my Rs and Ds confuzzled sometimes

it’s like goo goo clusters original and goo goo clusters peabnut

happyfeet (c60db2) — 6/20/2013 @ 1:18 pm

mister feet, it sounds like you have your popcorn popping and your soda fizzing in anticipation of this Supreme Court decision

Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 6/20/2013 @ 1:28 pm

i been so busy it’s not really on my radar

plus I think for california anyway the easiest thing to do would be to just have another vote

but I guess we do need the pervert Roberts court to get rid of doma, which is clearly a fee not a tax

happyfeet (c60db2) — 6/20/2013 @ 1:36 pm

mister feet, california has already had two votes on the issue

Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 6/20/2013 @ 1:39 pm

i know but they have to keep doing it til they vote like how I want

happyfeet (c60db2) — 6/20/2013 @ 1:41 pm

and then after that it will be time to “move on”

happyfeet (c60db2) — 6/20/2013 @ 1:43 pm

Happy – that is pretty much how every progressive program comes about.

JD (91f8a8) — 6/20/2013 @ 2:05 pm

A proposal by some columnist to raise the minimum wage…

To $15 an hour! ($15,000 a year)

The Capitalist’s Case for a $15 Minimum Wage By Nick Hanauer Jun 19, 2013 6:50 PM ET (Bloomberg)

The minimum-wage stimulus By Felix Salmon June 20, 2013 (Reuters)

Now if this was a proposal to make the minimum wage $15 for anyone paid biweekly or less often, that might make sense.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/20/2013 @ 2:19 pm

“Happy – that is pretty much how every progressive program comes about.”

JD – But in between the votes they have to boycott businesses that contributed to campaigns that opposed the legislation they wanted, get people fired who made individual contributions to those campaigns and engage in massive public displays of group hate, because tolerance, or something.

Having a different opinion means you are a hater even though all the hate flows one direction in terms of vilification, intimidation, suppression, etc.

Isn’t this a great little banana republic country!

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/20/2013 @ 2:19 pm

The TWA 800 missile theory was invented in the White House. The version pursued by Kallstrom of the FBI was a terrorist missile – Pierre Salinger was leaked an alternative version (thriough French intelligence) in which it was a U.S. Navy missile.

It was not a honest investigation. the terms of the investigation were ridiculous. The NTSB was not allowed to consider any kind of criminal cause. that was the purview of the FBI. It would be like a murder investigation in which unless the police determined there was a crime, the medical examiner was not allowed to postulate homicide. Bill Clinton set that up.

It was actually caused by a fire that started as a result of something illegal the Mafia had done at JFK Airport. Maybe illicit cargo.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/20/2013 @ 2:23 pm

There is something very wrong with all the published TWA 800 missile witness accounts.

It wasn’t dark at 8:30 PM on July 17, 1996.

Any genuine missile accounts (none of which Kallstrom released) were probably accounts of flares fired later.

It is very important to understand that the missile theory is part of the coverup.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/20/2013 @ 2:25 pm

ZOMFG

JD (91f8a8) — 6/20/2013 @ 2:30 pm

Just like the majority of Latinos have been voting Republicans ever since Reagan signed the amnesty bill in 1986, the majority of the LGBT community will certainly start voting Republican once same-sex marriage is legal !

Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 6/20/2013 @ 2:32 pm

Sammy, I have a missile theory; I think our military should use them against our nation’s enemies.

Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 6/20/2013 @ 2:33 pm

The Watergate Hotel was not Democratic campaign headquarters in 1972 – that was the the site of the Democratic National Committee. You would expect to find nothing there until after the convention. If you wanted political intelligence the place to bug was the McGovern campaign headquarters. That’s why this never made any sense to Nixon – it looked like Liddy was very stupid.

But in reality, Liddy had been told to go there by John Dean and Jeb Stuart Magruder.

The reason probably was to get them caught (maybe it was just a hope) before they bugged the McGovern campaign headquarters. Which is where they intended to go later that night.

Previously, G. Gordon Liddy had planted a spy in the McGovern campaign headquarters, a man by the name of Tom Gregory, recruited by Robert F. Bennett, son of a Utah Senator, and later Senator himself for 18 years until he was defeated by the Tea Party in 2010.

Gregory was supposed to put a bug there.

But somehow the big never worked.

I think he was a double agent, or turned.

I think John Dean et al wanted George McGovern to win the Democratic nomination, because they wanted the Democrat to lose, and they were in league with some people there. I think John Dean actually wanted to make Spiro Agnew president, and maybe some people working for McGovern as well.

Anyway all that was secret from Liddy.

Anyway after all the bugs failed to work, Liddy determined to place one in the McGovern headquarters himself. That’s when John Dean and Magruder tried to stop him and gave him another target, which maybe they knew would give him a great chance of getting caught (actually Hunt and McCord – Liddy wasn’t at the scene)

Tom Gregory suddenly quit as a spy right before the Watergate break-in.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/20/2013 @ 2:39 pm

Comment by JD (91f8a8) — 6/20/2013 @ 2:30 pm

ZOMFG

I had to look that up.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=zomfg

usually spelled entirely in caps, this abbreviation originates from the typo you get when you strike the shift key in order to type OMFG, but you miss and hit the z instead.

No it’s absolutely true that the missile theory is part of the coverup and was invented in the White House.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/20/2013 @ 2:44 pm

BUT WHAT DO MILLENNIALS THINK?

bet you didn’t think of that didja

the Gen X-centrism on this blog is stifling

happyfeet (c60db2) — 6/20/2013 @ 2:45 pm

Care to wrap up any other conspiracy theories while you are at it, Sammylanche?

ZOMFGWTFBBQ

JD (b63a52) — 6/20/2013 @ 2:46 pm

Steve57, to get to the situation you are predicting, one of two things must happen:

(a) the supreme court would have to abandon decades of first amendment jurisprudence;

(b) the administration would have to choose to ignore the supreme court’s first amendment decisions *and* any subsequent court decisions following them.

I think this is unlikely.

aphrael (1ead15) — 6/20/2013 @ 2:46 pm

50. Watergate

That’s why I called Senator Robert F, Bennett of Utah I call him the Senator from Watergate. It somehow never attracted any attention although this is all public. Bennett by the way was not working for the CIA – that was just a cover story.

Another bon mot could be:

President Nixon did not have advance knowledge of the Watergate break-in, but President Clinton maybe did. (He had an important in the McGovern campaign and became the campaign manager in Texas. Did he become among the few who knew about the spy?)

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/20/2013 @ 2:47 pm

Bennett deliberately sought employment from Howard Hughes so he could pretend he was working for the CIA.

He wasn’t working for Hughes anyway but for the people who were skimming money from Hughes’s casinos and stealing money from him.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/20/2013 @ 2:49 pm

aphrael,

I think you overestimate Obama.

Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 6/20/2013 @ 2:50 pm

“The TWA 800 missile theory was invented in the White House.”

GREAT BIG MOOSE BALLZ!

It was talked about by people on the ground when the crash occurred.

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/20/2013 @ 2:52 pm

Opening for the Supremes, Margaret Cho, singing of love & tolerance (NOT); http://tiny.cc/choh8r

L.N. Smithee (497e1c) — 6/20/2013 @ 2:55 pm

Ninja cheerleaders killed Vince Foster and the White House covered it up.

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/20/2013 @ 2:57 pm

Really? Let’s never send them into combat, then. Talk about becoming a target.

Comment by nk (875f57) — 6/20/2013 @ 11:17 am

In combat you get to shoot back. The military tends to frown upon fragging of Officers and General Staff.

peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 6/20/2013 @ 3:05 pm

As usual, Sammy has it backwards, Mullen and co, was a convenient front to operate in domestically,
a little like Intertel was for the Democrats.

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-jury-seated-after-judge-rejects-state-serial-striking-of-white-women/

narciso (3fec35) — 6/20/2013 @ 3:11 pm

Robert F. Bennett bought the Mullen company in 1971 because it had worked for the CIA. But he never worked for the CIA. It had been used as a front for people who were outside the United States.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/20/2013 @ 3:15 pm

62. Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/20/2013 @ 2:57 pm

Ninja cheerleaders killed Vince Foster and the White House covered it up.

Just for the record, it was probably Saudi Arabian Ambassador to the United States Prince Bander bin Sultan, or someone acting under huis authority, and whose residence near gort MArcy Park was also used for secret meetings and who kept a large number of briefcases there (he claimed they were secret files, more likely they contained cash)

After Foster’s death I think he sought and obtained a secret unscheduled meeting at which only he and president Clinton and Sandy Burglar were present. An account of this meeting (an probably false explanation of why it happened that is) was leaked to fred Barnes then of the New Republic and published on page 10 of the March 14, 1994 New Republic, right at the time when there were other Foster case leaks. Bander explained the murder and Clinton agreed to cover it up.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/20/2013 @ 3:19 pm

One can believe either:
homosexuality and heterosexuality are equivalent
or
they are not.

If you put into law that they are equivalent, irrespective of one’s convictions from natural law, religious conviction, or for whatever reason,
then the opinion that they are not equivalent is officially and legally bigoted incorrect thought.

You will not be punished for thinking it as long as you don’t let it affect your behavior in any way.

Freedom of religion is fine, as long as it does not get in the way of doing what society tells you to do.

Not my opinion, laws of logic that rule reality.

It’s a good thing my posts on the internet are not being monitored,
oh, yeah.

MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 6/20/2013 @ 3:21 pm

Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/20/2013 @ 2:52 pm

It [the missile theory] was talked about by people on the ground when the crash occurred.

No, it wasn’t. The news articles appeared later. The ones who lenbt their name to this were liars, the otehr witness accounts collected by the FBI were all of flares published later.

One important point is IT WASN’T DARK WHEN THE PLANE CRASHED!!

Sandy Burglar’s confession about how and when he stole the documents from the National Archives is alo a lie, because it also has the time of sunset in Washington DC that day wrong.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/20/2013 @ 3:23 pm

This is multiple levels of awesome.

ZOMFGWTFBBQRSVP

JD (91f8a8) — 6/20/2013 @ 3:27 pm

As far as the Supremes revealing same-sex marriage decision, I’m placing my money on Sotomayor marrying Kagan.

If Souter were still on the bench, I would think he might be a good match for Breyer.

Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 6/20/2013 @ 3:32 pm

Many of them have been in combat. But feel free to make light of the fact they’d lose their careers in addition to to whatever sacrifices they had already made.

Comment by Steve57 (ab2b34) — 6/20/2013 @ 11:36 am

Well, it was your assertion that they’re toadying cowards, not mine. Which I question. Those that did not participate probably did not because they don’t give a rat’s a**, and those that did probably answered honestly.

nk (875f57) — 6/20/2013 @ 3:34 pm

JD,

He can’t multiply either. $15/hr is not $15,000/year. It’s fuckingggg $31,000/year.

peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 6/20/2013 @ 3:47 pm

Not a one off;

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/06/20/Oops-Mayor-Bloomberg-s-Gun-Control-Group-Also-Lists-Cop-Killers-As-Victims-Of-Gun-Violence

narciso (3fec35) — 6/20/2013 @ 4:17 pm

I have a theory. It doesn’t have to be dark to see a missile’s contrail. Try these on for size:
https://www.google.com/search?q=daylight+missile+contrail&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=25PDUZDLEsW64AOp4YGgBA&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=853&bih=582

peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 6/20/2013 @ 4:45 pm

According to sammylanche, I guess that the friggin Space Shuttle couldn’t be seen during day launches either!

peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 6/20/2013 @ 4:48 pm

Ted Cruz – on syria – we should go in – find the weapons of mass destruction – then get out

I applaud him for taking an upopular stand on principle

E.PWJ (bdd0a6) — 6/20/2013 @ 4:52 pm

“The President [Obama] has attempted to disarm me by telling jokes about his age”

– Vlad Putin

Translation: “I could beat him to death with my testicles.”

Colonel Haiku (3f24c8) — 6/20/2013 @ 4:54 pm

71. Many of them have been in combat. But feel free to make light of the fact they’d lose their careers in addition to to whatever sacrifices they had already made.

Comment by Steve57 (ab2b34) — 6/20/2013 @ 11:36 am

Well, it was your assertion that they’re toadying cowards, not mine. Which I question. Those that did not participate probably did not because they don’t give a rat’s a**, and those that did probably answered honestly.

Comment by nk (875f57) — 6/20/2013 @ 3:34 pm

Several people at the time told me why they weren’t participating in the survey. That the administration had already made its decision, that the survey was just window dressing for that decision, and that anyone who opposed the repeal of DADT was a fool for honestly participating in the survey. All told me they didn’t know anyone who was a senior NCO or above who opposed to gays serving in the military who were participating in the survey.

Toadying cowards? Hardly. They simply knew which way the wind was blowing, and to decided if they’re going to get out it’s going to be at the time and place of their own choosing. Because to do otherwise was and is a self destructive exercise in futility.

But go right ahead and question me, nk, because as of June 2013 we have zero reason to suspect that the ‘Bamster would ever use the bureaucratic apparatus to retaliate against dissenters. Don’t we?

Steve57 (ab2b34) — 6/20/2013 @ 5:06 pm

By the way, in my opinion and theirs they would have been toadying cowards if they told the administration what the administration wanted to hear. They didn’t do that.

Steve57 (ab2b34) — 6/20/2013 @ 5:08 pm

CNN 7/19/96:

The final possibility: that an object such as a missile hit the plane. Sources at the Pentagon told CNN they were looking closely at this possibility, because radar records reviewed by military officials showed a mystery blip in the vicinity of the TWA flight path.

http://www.cnn.com/US/9607/19/twa.investigation/index.html

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/20/2013 @ 5:30 pm

NY Times 7/19/96 as run in the Orlando Sentinel:

“Law enforcement officials involved in the investigation said they had based their speculation about a missile attack largely on the accounts of some witnesses who reported seeing flaming streaks and flashes of light before the plane exploded, shortly after taking off from Kennedy International Airport for Paris.

Such a missile attack would be a frightening departure from previous terrorist attacks on airliners. Efforts to deter terrorism in this country have focused almost entirely on preventing explosives from being brought aboard aircraft. But officials said there were reasons, too, to be skeptical, including the fact that Flight 800 was flying above the rated ceiling for most shoulder-fired missiles, such as the Stinger.”

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1996-07-19/news/9607181535_1_twa-flight-800-crash-missile-attack

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/20/2013 @ 5:41 pm

This is an example of why the GOP has a few image problems in Illinois and why women and minorities are a rilly rilly tough sell for Conservatives/Republicans in these parts. Just so you know, Erica Harold is bi-racial, a former Miss America and a practicing attorney.

* Montgomery County Republican Party Chairman Jim Allen fired off a racist, misogynistic, xenophobic and disgustingly hateful e-mail to conservative blogger and GOP activist Doug Ibendahl this week. Allen supports Congressman Rodney Davis against Erika Harold in the Republican primary. Harold, who is black, lost out to Davis last year when county party chairmen picked retired Congressman Tim Johnson’s ballot replacement. Ibendahl backs Harold and he posted Chairman Allen’s e-mail on his blog.

From: Jim Allen

Sent: 06/18/13 10:59 PM

To: dibendahl@mail.com

Subject: 13th Congressional District reply

Rodney Davis will win and the love child of the D.N.C. will be back in Sh*tcago by May of 2014 working for some law firm that needs to meet their quota for minority hires.

The truth is Nancy Pelosi and the DEMOCRAT party want this seat. So they called RINO Timmy Johnson to be their pack mule and get little queen to run.

Ann Callis gets a free ride through a primary and Rodney Davis has a battle.

The little queen touts her abstinence and she won the crown because she got bullied in school,,,boohoo..kids are cruel, life sucks and you move on..Now, miss queen is being used like a street walker and her pimps are the DEMOCRAT PARTY and RINO REPUBLICANS…These pimps want something they can’t get,,, the seat held by a conservative REPUBLICAN Rodney Davis and Nancy Pelosi can’t stand it..

Little Queenie and Nancy Pelosi have so much in common but the one thing that stands out the most.. both are FORMER QUEENS, their crowns are tarnished and time has run out on the both of them..

RNC Chairman Reince Priebus released the following statement in response to comments made by Jim Allen, Chairman of the Montgomery County, Illinois, Republican Party:

“The astonishingly offensive views expressed by Chairman Allen have absolutely no place among the leaders of our party at any level. His behavior is inexcusable and must not be tolerated. He should apologize to Erika Harold and resign immediately.”

As of late this afternoon Chairman Allen is former chairman. He has resigned.

http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2013-06-19/updated-gop-official-apologizes-anti-harold-rant.html

elissa (3e342a) — 6/20/2013 @ 5:47 pm

68. Sorry Sammy, we don’t believe you. I remember seeing the missile report within days of the crash, like 3 or less.

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 6/20/2013 @ 5:48 pm

Well the Illinois GOP, is the sort that VanderLeun thought of when he said ‘they thirst for death’

narciso (3fec35) — 6/20/2013 @ 5:54 pm

did we know this?

when you google “gay marriage” the search box gets all rainbowy

https://www.google.com/#gs_rn=17&gs_ri=psy-ab&suggest=p&cp=6&gs_id=91&xhr=t&q=gay+marriage&es_nrs=true&pf=p&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&oq=gay+ma&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.48293060,d.cGE&fp=1f543eb66d442f76&biw=1920&bih=952

that’s gay to the power of google

happyfeet (8ce051) — 6/20/2013 @ 6:04 pm

83. LOL

OT but those of you expecting the dead cat bounce in the markets tomorrow:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-20/stocks-plunge-imf-tells-greece-plug-holes-or-it-pulls-plug

There’s going to be some negative momentum on internationals to overcome.

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 6/20/2013 @ 6:05 pm

ohnoes

if stocks plunge there will be a reverse wealth effect and I will be less inclined to consume goods and services with my freshly printed whorenanke dollars

happyfeet (8ce051) — 6/20/2013 @ 6:07 pm

85. Cont.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-20/what-recent-surge-rates-means-your-home-purchasing-power

Mortgage rates are climbing following the 10-Year T-Bill per custom. While the Fed nominally sets prime with the discount rate look for pressure from banks to push their rates wildcat style.

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 6/20/2013 @ 6:11 pm

Google is gay.

nk (875f57) — 6/20/2013 @ 6:11 pm

Link.

nk (875f57) — 6/20/2013 @ 6:14 pm

Zimmerman’s toast.

nk (875f57) — 6/20/2013 @ 6:51 pm

Since this is an open thread…
is it just me, or does it already seem like Friday evening to the rest of you too?

MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 6/20/2013 @ 6:53 pm

One can believe either:
homosexuality and heterosexuality are equivalent
or they are not.

MD in Philly, you left out the “B” of GLBT. Or what Obama apparently is.

(BTW, it wasn’t just peculiar that Obama spent a recent holiday weekend with his “body man” in Florida, while the missus and kids were in Colorado, it was also peculiar that the missus chose not to attend a major US-China dinner with her husband in California last week — causing a diplomatic flap — based on the flimsy pretext she wanted to be with the kids during their last week in school. Something is up with Barry and Michelle.)

For such “Bs” of the GLBT, if they don’t believe in flat-out polygamy, they should be allowed a variation of that. They should be given the option of having a husband one week, and a wife the next, and then back again.

Mark (4db773) — 6/20/2013 @ 6:56 pm

NY Times 7/19/96 as run in the Orlando Sentinel:

“Law enforcement officials involved in the investigation said they had based their speculation about a missile attack largely on the accounts of some witnesses who reported seeing flaming streaks and flashes of light before the plane exploded, shortly after taking off from Kennedy International Airport for Paris.

Such a missile attack would be a frightening departure from previous terrorist attacks on airliners. Efforts to deter terrorism in this country have focused almost entirely on preventing explosives from being brought aboard aircraft. But officials said there were reasons, too, to be skeptical, including the fact that Flight 800 was flying above the rated ceiling for most shoulder-fired missiles, such as the Stinger.”

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1996-07-19/news/9607181535_1_twa-flight-800-crash-missile-attack

Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/20/2013 @ 5:41 pm

Ok, let me get in front of this. Back in the ’90s the rumor was a Navy destroyer shot this plane down. No way.

Not that the Navy couldn’t screw up that badly. It’s the fact you can’t shut up an entire crew. Had a USN destroyer shot this plane down, every bar hog in Norfolk would have known about within a day of the ship pulling back in. Or whatever naval station.

Launching a missile from a ship isn’t the kind of thing you can keep secret. Sailors who have nothing to do with firing it feel it throughout the ship.

Steve57 (ab2b34) — 6/20/2013 @ 6:57 pm

It does to me, MD. I’ve been thinking it’s Friday since I woke up.

nk (875f57) — 6/20/2013 @ 6:59 pm

nk- You think Zimmerman is toast because??
that women will be sympathetic to the image of poor little trayvon and reject the self defense argument?

I never heard anything about a US destroyer shooting it down, but I did hear the question raised about a missile, assumedly a Stinger-like thing.

MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 6/20/2013 @ 7:08 pm

I figured that was more likely, Stingers then, MANPADS now.

narciso (3fec35) — 6/20/2013 @ 7:09 pm

Well Javert, I mean De Rionda, struck down four white women before, as the Jacobsen link shows.

narciso (3fec35) — 6/20/2013 @ 7:10 pm

narciso, Stingers are MANPADs.

Steve57 (ab2b34) — 6/20/2013 @ 7:12 pm

Sorry I thought they were a new model.

narciso (3fec35) — 6/20/2013 @ 7:15 pm

Just letting my sexism show through. If I knew how women think ….

nk (875f57) — 6/20/2013 @ 7:17 pm

they can be taught who knew

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/20/exodus-international-shuts-down_n_3470911.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

happyfeet (8ce051) — 6/20/2013 @ 7:19 pm

They could probably do better curing people of the sin of gluttony, and maybe bill it to Obamacare.

nk (875f57) — 6/20/2013 @ 7:28 pm

just some rogue employees in Cincinatti:

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/06/report-pro-democratic-union-group-slipped-through-irs-scrutiny/

narciso (3fec35) — 6/20/2013 @ 7:36 pm

“Ok, let me get in front of this. Back in the ’90s the rumor was a Navy destroyer shot this plane down. No way.”

Steve57 – That was a rumor that was not given much credence because the Navy was holding exercises at the time, but much further south. No need to get excited.

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/20/2013 @ 7:39 pm

MANPADS just stands for MAN Portable Air Defense System. Stingers have been around since the ’80s. I don’t know if they’re still being produced or what mod they’re on but they fall into the general category.

Since this is an open thread I’ll go off on a different tangent. On various threads I’ve been accused of being obsessed with Edward Snowden or questioned about my intensity when confronted with people who hold an opposite view than mine. I.E. that Snowden is a hero.

I actually have thought about it. And it dawned on me today when I was reading about the Obama administration’s surrender negotiations with the Taliban why that is.

My problem isn’t so much with Snowden. Traitors will be with us always. My “obsession” so to speak is with the people who celebrate him. It’s easy to explain away one administration’s actions, but not when popular opinion supports it. Countries that might be inclined to cooperate with us secretly can put up with the fact that a different administration might slip in and take an opposite view. But they can’t ignore a major shift in public opinion.

If Americans are rooting for a guy who is betraying his own government for spying on foreign nationals like the Chinese and the Russians, how can any other government believe their own secrets are safe with us?

Steve57 (ab2b34) — 6/20/2013 @ 7:41 pm

“narciso, Stingers are MANPADs.”

Steve57 – I thought a stinger is what you get if a woman smacks you with her stiletto heel and a manpad is what you apply to reduce the swelling.

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/20/2013 @ 7:47 pm

No, Snowden gave up our surveilance in Russia and China, who else would he not sell out,

narciso (3fec35) — 6/20/2013 @ 7:47 pm

daleyrocks — Heh!

nk (875f57) — 6/20/2013 @ 7:49 pm

DOMA was allegedly enacted in order to stave off a constitutional amendment. Now, some conservatives are like the Charlie Brown characters who keep trying to kick the football that gets pulled away from them at that last minute, but many will learn, and learn fast: if you have a chance to enshrine a policy position in the Constitution, don’t settle for a law that will be declared unconstitutional.

Not sure if liberals really want that to happen.

bridget (84c06f) — 6/20/2013 @ 8:09 pm

Steve, one of the many reasons your attacks against Snowden got so little traction is because most of us here know that the United States defines treason very specifically, in the Constitution of all places, and it is not violating omerta.

It would also help if you took it easy with the straw men. Which foreign government trusts us with its secrets, ever? Operative word “trusts”.

nk (875f57) — 6/20/2013 @ 8:14 pm

http://twitchy.com/2013/06/20/sharyl-attkisson-state-dept-has-released-seven-new-photos-of-bengazi-aftermath/

narciso (3fec35) — 6/20/2013 @ 8:15 pm

I saw that about Exodus International.
Very surprising, but apparently there has been some discord within the group for some while.

Reading an excerpt of the “apology” was a bit bizarre for me, something about having “lost the culture war”.

It has nothing to do with any culture war or prevailing opinions of society, it has to do with God’s truth and the grace and power He gives to be obedient. Exodus may have been the largest group and an “umbrella” for many others, but they are not the only ones who testify to God’s grace to work in the lives of people whose sexuality has been more of a difficulty than a blessing.

There are many others who have not “given up”. I find it hard to believe the people who are “apologizing” really believed what Exodus was about, at least originally. It really is like a pastor apologizing for having preached from the Bible and believing in Jesus; it doesn’t really make most listeners to decide to stop believing in Jesus, it just makes them wonder what in the world was going on in the person’s mind all along.

Sorry feets, your victory shout was premature.

MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 6/20/2013 @ 8:28 pm

Nothing new under the sun, really;

Romans 24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

Apparently Exodus didn’t know what they were preaching.

narciso (3fec35) — 6/20/2013 @ 8:39 pm

“Which foreign government trusts us with its secrets, ever?”

nk – I suggest you follow your own advice and take it easy on the strawmen. The operative question should be which countries does the U.S. mutually share classified information with or engage in the collection of such information or clandestine operations.

If you have trouble imagining what countries we may be working with you really don’t have any imagination.

After the Obama Administration revealed the presence of a foreign country’s operative inside Al Qaeda in Yemen when it decided to spike the football on that operation, do you think it gave any country’s intelligence service pause working with the U.S.?

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/20/2013 @ 8:43 pm

They used Japan’s facility to look on China, and the UK, to watch Russia,

narciso (3fec35) — 6/20/2013 @ 8:47 pm

105. “Countries that might be inclined to cooperate with us secretly can put up with the fact that a different administration might slip in and take an opposite view. But they can’t ignore a major shift in public opinion.”

Seriously, I see that the general opinion evidenced here is that there is a tight space that we can squeeze thru and with some trouble get the country righted, at least on a positive track toward recapturing the greatness that once was America.

I just don’t get it, how this optimism can subsist alongside current events.

Brazil, a leading emerging economy had a million people on her streets today. Turkey is aflame. The dollar rising means world currencies deflating in a hurry. Egypt, last I saw hadn’t ordered gasoline delivery since January, how did they plant wheat?

And western economies are just as bad. France, Spain and Italy are contracting over 4% this year. Greece’s government is dissolving. Belgium, the Netherlands and Britain are in recession.

Australia has a housing bust and commodities meltdown running concurrently. China has a liquidity crisis.

Detroit has stolen $3.5 Billion from her pensions for operating expenses. CA and IL are bust and will soon be offically bankrupt when new accounting rules render their debt on sale junk. With rising bond rates their debt will build geometrically.

Peaceful transition to a better future is totally infeasible.

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 6/20/2013 @ 9:07 pm

110. Steve, one of the many reasons your attacks against Snowden got so little traction is because most of us here know that the United States defines treason very specifically, in the Constitution of all places, and it is not violating omerta.

It would also help if you took it easy with the straw men. Which foreign government trusts us with its secrets, ever? Operative word “trusts”.

Comment by nk (875f57) — 6/20/2013 @ 8:14 pm

I think the main reason I’ve had so little traction is that people like you thought I was attacking Snowden or that I was talking about treason.

Forest. Trees. Discover the difference.

Steve57 (ab2b34) — 6/20/2013 @ 9:12 pm

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/06/20/accountability-fbi-deems-agents-faultless-in-100-percent-of-shootings/

narciso (3fec35) — 6/20/2013 @ 9:26 pm

What’s sad is that this society has become so exhausted in tone and attitude, that a variety of people (me, for example) who wouldn’t have been so cynical and skeptical in the past, and who therefore would have perceived Snowden far more negatively, now see shades of gray, or have greater doubts about which end is up.

I’ve said previously that I’ve wondered for several years how right-leaning, sensible, practical-minded people living in (and native to) a Mexico or Argentina deal with their home country. I’m beginning to get a sense of the way such people must feel and react.

Mark (4db773) — 6/20/2013 @ 9:38 pm

Google is gay.
Comment by nk (875f57) — 6/20/2013 @ 6:11 pm

— And filled with pride.

Icy gulrud (39a750) — 6/20/2013 @ 9:57 pm

It does to me, MD. I’ve been thinking it’s Friday since I woke up.
Comment by nk (875f57) — 6/20/2013 @ 6:59 pm

— Ditto to that.

Icy gulrud (39a750) — 6/20/2013 @ 9:59 pm

Stupid semi-sock!

Icy (39a750) — 6/20/2013 @ 10:00 pm

Brazil, a leading emerging economy had a million people on her streets today.

Speaking of South America, you left out the following jewel of the realm below the equator.

I find Argentina intriguing as a case study because it’s a society whose populace is of predominantly European extraction (it’s so-called “people of color” represent a noticeably smaller percentage of the whole than that of the US’s), but whose voting record going back decades is about as nonsensical as what one might associate with urban or ultra-blue-state America.

Simply put, liberalism corrupts all and is a more powerful (and negative) force than that of the influence and dynamics of demographics per se.

online.wsj.com, June 1, 2013: [Leftwing] Argentine president Cristina Kirchner made the first cabinet shuffle since the start of her second term in 2011, replacing the country’s security minister amid growing public concern about crime. The move comes as the country’s high crime rate continues to worry Argentines, and the issue is likely to play an important role in November’s midterm congressional elections.

An April survey from respected local pollsters Management & Fit found that Argentines’ top concern is crime, followed by inflation, unemployment and corruption.

Political pundits say the government is hoping to lock in a super-majority in the legislature, giving it the votes needed to reform the constitution and remove term limits. Ms. Kirchner succeeded her husband, Nestor Kirchner, to the presidency in 2007, and is currently barred from seeking a third term in 2015.

However, the government faces an uphill battle. The president’s approval rating has slumped recently as economic growth slows, crime rises, a series of corruption allegations have surfaced and following passage of a judicial reform bill that critics say threatens the independence of the courts.

Mark (4db773) — 6/20/2013 @ 10:05 pm

nk #90,

Apparently the State is more worried about women jurors than the defense, because the prosecutors tried to strike all the white women until the Judge stopped them.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/20/2013 @ 10:18 pm

Maybe de la Rionda is as terrified of arguing to women as I am, DRJ. 😉

I am being facetious … mostly. On more than one case, one woman established herself as a belwether. It was going to be her verdict, or no verdict and she had enough persuasive skill to bring the other jurors around to her point of view. And what this has to do with Zimmerman’s case, I don’t know.

nk (875f57) — 6/21/2013 @ 6:22 am

Well, I agree some women find ways to be controlling but it seems to me most women will sympathize with a man trying to protect his neighbors’ property and neighborhood. I think this is especially true if evidence shows Trayvon was a big guy, that he was high, and/or he was acting suspiciously or violently.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/21/2013 @ 9:02 am

They are trying to get Anthony Weiner into trouble over nothing. talk about political correctness!

What was he supposed to have done, lectured the woman harshly? Recoiled in horror? He didn’t endorse what she said.

Anthony Weiner apologizes after woman uses gay slur in his presence New York Daily News

The encounter with the woman occurred Saturday in Forest Hills, Queens, and was disclosed in a story about the campaign published Thursday by The Washington Post.

According to the paper, an “elderly woman wheeling a shopping cart” told Weiner, “I’m not voting for uh, what’s her name? The dyke.”

“Okay. I just need you to sign the petition to get me on the ballot,” Weiner said.

He looked at the Washington Post reporter, and added, “And you really shouldn’t talk that way about people,” according to the newspaper’s account. “Oh, I’m sorry,” the woman said. “It’s okay,” Weiner responded.

“It’s not your fault.” Quinn supporters Assemblywoman Deborah Glick and Sen. Brad Hoylman — two openly gay Manhattan Democrats — quickly put out a statement Thursday accusing Weiner of lacking “moral courage” in how he handled the incident.

Weiner told reporters a short time later Thursday that he has a zero-tolerance policy against “any type of slur against any community.”

His campaign issued a statement a short time later:

“Homophobia is vile and destructive and something I have fought against for the entirety of my career, including being a vocal supporter of gay marriage since 1998 and standing up on the floor of Congress for transgender Americans,” Weiner said.

“I admonished the woman amid a large crowd on a streetcorner and by no means believe that anything about her comment was appropriate. If the impression is that I did, I apologize because behavior like this will absolutely not be tolerated in my administration.”

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/anthony-weiner-apologizes-woman-gay-slur-presence-article-1.1378881#ixzz2WssD4cLX

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/21/2013 @ 1:20 pm

56. Comment by JD (b63a52) — 6/20/2013 @ 2:46 pm

Care to wrap up any other conspiracy theories while you are at it..

The overlooked suspect in the Kennedy assassination. . .Governor John Connally.

The warren Commission reported that the luncheon site was selected by the Secret Service with O’Donnell’s approval. This is incorrect. The decision was a political decision made by polioticians. Bruno was among the witnesses whom the Commission did not summon.

– William Manchester, “The Death of a President” footnote at the bottom of page 25.

The fact of the matter is, John Connally exerted a lot of pressire, and since he cannot have been the conspirator, assuming there was one, since he
got shot, it must be someone close to him who could also persuade him not to talk much later by spinning another story. That point to his old college roommate and the Chairman of the Democratic Party in Texas, a Dallas lawyer named Eugene Locke, who, after Johnson became president, was named Ambassador to Pakistan in 1965, and then deputy Ambassador to South Vietnam in March 1967 and returned home to run for Governor of Texas in 1968 but lost (Connally decided not to run for re-election)

While in government he spread around the notion that he was close to LBJ so much so that he was nicknamed Lyndon Jr.

Governor Connally had wanted the Trade Mart. The reasons for wanting the Trade Mart sound specious. There was a report in the Dallas News that Connally had flown back to Washington to try to get the trip cancelled – but was it true, or was it planted as a alibi?

The question is what was the real reason for doing all that?

What I do think might be true is that the Chairman of the Texas Democratic Party, Eugene Locke, might have arranged it. This man was
close to Connally, a college roommate of his. He was in a position not only to influence Connally about the motorcade route, but also to get
him never to mention what had happened (using any of maybe half a dozen possible reasons)

Of course you never heard of this fellow. It wouldn’t be a very successful coverup if you had.

Part of the coverup is to point the finger in all sorts of other directions and imply that more than one person and at any rate somebody NOT Oswald shot Kennedy.

Now there are many facts that could be ascertained that would either increase the probability of this theory being true or totally demolish it.

Above all, of course did Locke know of George De Mohrenschildt? All I know about de Morenschildt is that in April, 1963 he left Dallas and spent
most of his time in Haiti. At that time organized crime was trying to ressurrect what they had in Cuba in Haiti (it eventually succeeded, in
the Bahamas) Did de Mohrenschildt speak to anyone? Did he ever visit Texas or anywhere else? What do we know of his movements? What do we
know of his character and previous associations? He was a petroleum engineer and Locke was in the oil business – were they acquainted?

The question becomes of course, did Locke have any knowledge of George de Mohrenschildt. Because De Mohrenschildt was the only person besides
Marina Oswald, his wife, who knew Oswald had fired a rifle at Walker – having guessed that correctly in such a way so that Oswald’s reaction
told him it was true and knew that if somebody went up to Oswald and said he was from the “Red Cross” which is what he called the KGB and
the KGB called itself in some contexts, and outlined some sort of a plan to him with a reward, he might very well do what somebody told him to do.

Of course a lot of things in this case, might have gone wrong. There would be a high chance nothing would happen, and a chance he might
miss. Hardly worth going to a lot of effort for something with such a low probability of success.

Perhaps indeed there was an earlier, better thought out plan, where the assassination would be blamed on John Birchers, but the potential
assassin(s) backed off, and then Locke (assuming it was him) had to find another assassin and another plan in a short time and found out about
Oswald.

And if this was the plan, John Connally, Locke’s link to Johnson, nearly got killed, and would have been had he stayed still in the same position
and not turned his head when he heard the first shot. Connally was not originally supposed to be in that car.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/21/2013 @ 2:41 pm

That’s not the whole story. The mastermind might have been a serial killer of presidents.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/21/2013 @ 2:41 pm

Oh, my.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/21/2013 @ 2:43 pm

I guess the Samster doesn’t remember that anyone shouting at any event a politician attends must be immediately admonished by said politician regardless of whether s/he heard it or not. It’s the brave new world in which we live. Thanks for playing!

Amalgamated Cliff Divers, Local 157 (f7d5ba) — 6/21/2013 @ 2:48 pm

Sammy,

Let’s be honest, Weiner would not have apologized unless he believes in his heart that he behaved reprehensively.

Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 6/21/2013 @ 2:54 pm

Interestingly, first Gus Russo, who’s expert on the mob, and Brian Latell, last year, turned up more knowledge at least by Cuban Intelligence, DGI, at the time, this is somewhat ironic, because of the last remaining figures in that group, Fabian Escalante, has made much of the supposed CIA plot

narciso (3fec35) — 6/21/2013 @ 2:59 pm

So, the debate was a formality;

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/06/21/revealed-u-s-has-been-secretly-training-syrian-rebels-in-anti-tank-and-anti-aircraft-weapons-for-months/

narciso (3fec35) — 6/21/2013 @ 3:03 pm

Where was George W. Bush on November 22, 1963 ?
Presumably with his family on Thanksgiving break from prep school, right ?

But do we know that for certain ?

Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 6/21/2013 @ 3:08 pm

Will was ok, but this is Roberto Duran style mauling;

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/351741/obamas-melting-wings-mark-steyn

narciso (3fec35) — 6/21/2013 @ 3:27 pm

57. Steve57, to get to the situation you are predicting, one of two things must happen:

(a) the supreme court would have to abandon decades of first amendment jurisprudence;

(b) the administration would have to choose to ignore the supreme court’s first amendment decisions *and* any subsequent court decisions following them.

I think this is unlikely.

Comment by aphrael (1ead15) — 6/20/2013 @ 2:46 pm

The reason the Obama administration is so determined to create new rights is precisely aimed at accomplishing point a.

Forget gay marriage for the moment. Presently Obama’s DoJ is defending the Obamacare mandate on contraception, abortifacients, and sterilization because government has a compelling interest in promoting gender equality.

Who knew that the purpose of health insurance was to achieve gender equality. Regardless, that’s why the mandate is part of Obamacare. Not to remedy a situation that is actually harming anyone. After the mandate was proposed, I recall a Manhattan author who decided to find out just how many places he could walk to around his office to find free contraceptives. He found dozens of places within blocks, including at least one trendy clothing chain that had condoms in bowls on the displays.

The point of the HHS mandate isn’t to provide access to contraception, abortifacients, or sterilization to people who are now prevented from acquiring any of those products or services. That isn’t happening. The point of the mandate is to give government a reason to stifle people’s ability to act according to their conscience as formed by their religion.

Note how careful the President is to only acknowledge a First Amendment right to “freedom of worship.” As is the free exercise of religion is limited to whatever form of ritual you choose to engage in and only on a property that has filed for a specific tax exempt status. If the property isn’t recognized by the government as a religious employer, than whoever administers that property must provide their employees with health insurance that complies with the mandate.

Going off on a different tangent to address point b, the government is promoting campus speech codes that defy the Constitution and past court rulings. Professor Jacobson writes about it here.

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/05/the-ignored-doj-scandal-anti-free-speech-codes-on-campuses/

These are exactly the kind of codes that free speech proponents such as FIRE (mentioned in the post) have been successfully been overturning for years. Which might prompt you to say that because they’ve been overturned my First Amendment concerns are overblown. But I would respond with two points of my own.

a) The process is the punishment. Constantly playing whack-a-mole with the speech police is a never ending and expensive game.

b) This President is just one or two appointments away from getting Supreme Court that will deliver the opinions he wants so he won’t have any future rulings to ignore. I would refer you to Pat’s post about Justice Kagan’s ruling as evidence that Obama’s first priority when nominating a Supreme Court Justice is not the quality of their intellect.

The fact of the matter is that I took Barack Obama seriously when he talked about fundamentally transforming the country. And if he wants to fundamentally transform the country he has to do exactly the things you see as unlikely.

Which is why I think he’ll do exactly that. Despite the media’s pretense to the contrary, he has a track record. He’s been very consistent on some things. One of those things is that the Warren court didn’t go far enough in breaking free from the restrictions the founders placed upon government. And that what he wants is a set of what he calls “positive rights” as a counterweight against what he calls the “negative rights” in the Constitution.

By negative he means the things the Constitution says the government can’t do. By positive he means things the government must do. The second creation trumps the first.

So when he jumps on the “gay marriage is right” I naturally look to see all the possible things a man like Barack Obama would think government must be empowered to do to enforce that right and it’s not a pretty picture.

Steve57 (ab2b34) — 6/21/2013 @ 3:42 pm

“Melting wings”??? no wonder Barcky’s all spun up about global warmening.

Colonel Haiku (0ad1c4) — 6/21/2013 @ 4:19 pm

why come I can’t post using my iPhone anymoe?

Colonel Haiku (0ad1c4) — 6/21/2013 @ 4:19 pm

Here we go;

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/nsa-leaker-edward-snowden-charged-with-espionage-and-other-offenses/#comments

narciso (3fec35) — 6/21/2013 @ 4:40 pm

I honestly didn’t think they’d file charges so quickly. Not the Obama administration that buries everything in endless investigations.

But then my reasoning was based upon the presumption that the feds would want to get Snowden back from Hong Kong, and the easiest way to do that would be to wait him out.

Perhaps they wanted to give the CHICOMS a reason to proceed with asylum. Perhaps in Snowden the Obama administration collective recognizes a kindred spirit when they see one. Lord knows they have sufficient numbers of Mao and Castro admirers to do it.

Steve57 (ab2b34) — 6/21/2013 @ 5:08 pm

Well possibly, but this a nationalist China, as with Russia, they maybe antiWestern but not left in orientation.

narciso (3fec35) — 6/21/2013 @ 5:13 pm

Since it’s an open thread, also via Legal Insurrection:

http://www.exvegans.com/our-mission/

If you’re no longer vegan, you’re going on the list.

The spirits of the billions murdered have risen to deliver: The Vegan Sellout List – an online directory of those who have regressed from moral consistency to moral depravity.

The Vegan Sellout List is our answer to the epidemic of vegan sellouts – those who are aware of the suffering caused by meat, dairy, egg, fur, and leather production, yet choose to look away while the animals suffer.

Selling out veganism is a trend on the upswing, bringing with it swarms of haughty, nose-turning carnists uttering nonsensical buzzwords re: veganism being “privileged”, or “trendy”, critiquing themselves into ethical degeneracy and paleo-terrorism.

To those who have regressed from veganism, yet display symptoms of a soul not fully blackened to it’s core, we ask you to remind yourself why you were what you were:

Meet Your Meat

And if that fails to stir your conscience, we ask that you go here and follow the directions closely

I despise vegans. I would limit that to sanctimonious, holier-than-thou vegans, but I’ve never met a vegan who wasn’t sanctimonious and holier-than-thou.

As a matter of fact I never met a vegan who wouldn’t think that vilifying people online isn’t an appropriate response to someone who tried their regimen and didn’t like it. I don’t know what it is about not eating meat that turns people into vindictive ex-girlfriends.

I gave up on trying to accommodate vegans after a particularly disastrous BBQ when I committed the offense of cooking the vegan shish kabob on the same grill the meat had been cooked on. That was after going to what I considered great lengths to accommodate their diet. But I f***ed up once that food I had taken care to prepare touched that grill.

After that I was like, “The corn chips are over there. And no, I don’t know if animal fats were used to make it. Don’t feel obligated to stay to the end of the party.”

Now I look forward to interacting with vegans solely for their reaction when, in the midst of trying to recruit me to their cause by telling me about the horrors and filth of the meat industry, I get to tell them I’m a hunter and I kill and butcher my own animals thank you very much.

Steve57 (ab2b34) — 6/21/2013 @ 5:22 pm

Well, my previous post wasn’t entirely true. When I kill hawgs I generally have them processed into Italian or breakfast sausage.

But the deer, rabbits, ducks, geese, turkeys, pheasant, and quail I do myself.

Steve57 (ab2b34) — 6/21/2013 @ 5:26 pm

So, following in the footsteps of Geoffrey Prime

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/21/gchq-cables-secret-world-communications-nsa

narciso (3fec35) — 6/21/2013 @ 5:30 pm

narciso, I’ve said before that up until Snowden started spilling his guts I thought Obama was the number one seed in the competition to destroy what was formerly a special relationship with the UK.

But Eddie may well beat him out.

Steve57 (ab2b34) — 6/21/2013 @ 5:41 pm

112. “Omerta”

Wow, if I’m ever in the room with nk, I think I’ll just remain mute and maybe learn of other worlds.

gary gulrud (aac551) — 6/22/2013 @ 4:39 am

137. Comment by Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 6/21/2013 @ 3:08 pm

Where was George W. Bush on November 22, 1963

Richard Nixon was in Dallas, I think maybe the day before, but nobody ever worked that into any conspiracy theory.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/24/2013 @ 12:25 pm

It seems like when I have a different enough point of view than other people, people, people misunderstand what I say.

I think the missile theory is part of the TWA Flight 800 coverup and was invenetd in the white House the night of the crash

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/24/2013 @ 12:26 pm

I didn’t say a missile’s contrail couldn’t be seen during the day. I said in comment 69, that just about all the witness accounts talked about something seen during the night.

But sunset in East Moriches, Long Island, on July 17 (this year and it’s about the same every year) is at 8:19 PM, and the plane camewn at about 8:31. It was still very much day.

Therefore, if people gave a true account, and spoke of it being dark, they could not have been witnessing the crash if TWA Flight 800 (but rather flares shot up after it crashed and the like)

If you’ll check, you’ll see that most of the accounts speak of iot being night (and those that do not are obviously false for otehr reasons)

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/24/2013 @ 12:48 pm

Daleyrocks 82. Here is the New York Times article you quote:

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/07/19/nyregion/explosion-aboard-twa-flight-800-overview-investigators-suspect-explosive-device.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

Law enforcement officials involved in the investigation said they had based their speculation about a missile attack largely on the accounts of some witnesses who reported seeing flaming streaks and flashes of light before the plane exploded, shortly after taking off from Kennedy International Airport for Paris.

The point I am making is that there were no such witnesses. A few high ranking people in the FBI claimed that at Clinton’s instructions. If it really happened there would have bene plenty of witnesses. But there were only two. One of whom became well known later as a liar.

Even in saying that it could be a missile, the FBI people were already backtracking, for see, it continues:

But by evening, Federal law enforcement officials said they had looked at radar records from Wednesday evening and were giving less credence to the missile theory — in part because Flight 800 was flying above the ceiling for most shoulder-fired missiles.

Still, by process of elimination, investigators said they were finding it increasingly difficult to find an explanation for the explosion that ripped the aircraft apart that did not involve an attack on the plane, most likely by a bomb.

The White House coverup strategy was to have only witnesses – and absolutely nothing else – back up the missile theory.

The New York Times even has a correction, dated a few days later:

Correction: July 25, 1996, Thursday An article on Friday about the crash of T.W.A. Flight 800 referred incorrectly to comments by Maj. Frederick Meyer of the Air National Guard, who witnessed it. While he described a streak of light that preceded two explosions and a fireball, he said he saw no indication of a missile.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/24/2013 @ 1:02 pm

48. 61. 69. 75. 81. 82. 84.

As I said, the missile theory was invented in the White House on the night of the crash.

On June 18, 1998, I wrote to Bill Kovach, who was a kind of a public editor, when Brill’s Content came out in 1998, in part: [a few typos corrected and the wall of text split up]

In another article, Esther Dyson gives what I think is positively the worst account of how the TWA 80 Friendly Fire story originated.

And this is not a minor point. This is supposed to be the whole point of the magazine.

Pierre Salinger did not just misread an e-mail. He was told about this by French intelligence sources, the same type of sources who were quoted in the July 21, 1996 Jerusalem Post article that was circulated all over the Internet that started the friendly fire version of the missile theory.

As for the missile theory in general, it is my personal opinion that it originated in the Clinton White House (see page 30 of the
July 29, 1996 issue of Newsweek magazine) I believe that person in the White House made up the radar blip out of whole cloth.

The NTSB and FAA wrote some letters back and forth that attributed the origin of the blip story to a PRINTOUT of a commercial radar tape viewing proghram – but no names were mentioned. They are in the back of James Sanders’ book, whom I know is dishonest but the letters look genuine.

This is one of many false claims as to the origins of the missile theory.

It did not originate with Ian Goddard either. I have been writing about TWA Flight 800 for alomost two years now. Most of it can be found in the LSOFT archives at http://home.dc.lsoft.com/archives Page down to FLIGHT-800 (95 subscribers)

I believe that the plane was destroyed as the result of something wrong that happened at JFK Airport by people asociated with the mob and that the missile theory is part of the coverup.

Then I sent a correction:

Date: 06-18-98 (11:19) Number: 387614 of 424133 (Refer# NONE)
To: kovach@fas.harvard.edu
From: SAMMY FINKELMAN
Subj: TWA Flight 800 missile theory origin correction
Read: 06-18-98 (11:19) Status: RECEIVER ONLY (Echo)
Conf: email-1 (1099) Read Type: TEXT SCAN (+)

In my previous note to you I wrote that the proof that the misisle theory originated in the White House was contained on page 30 of the July 29, 1996 issue of Newwsweek. Actually it is on pages 31-32 – the last column of one pag╩ and the first of the other. The radar blip and perhaps the “eyewitnsses”” were mentioned theer. An Faa official claimed at the 6 A.M. WHite House copnference July 18, 1996 that a radar blip had crossed TWA as it departed from the screen. No such blip exiosted. I beleive there has been a massive attempt t ╞over up the origin of this story.
<<>>

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/24/2013 @ 1:12 pm

From the July 29, 1996 issue of Newsweek:

« The initial talk in the SVTS room focused not on a bomb, but on a missile. Some eyewitnesses thought they had seen something bright arcing toward the jet before it blew up. At the dawn SVTS conference on Thursday, [July 18] an FAA official reported that a strange radar blip had crossed the TWA craft as it vanished from the screen. The massive engines of a 747, throttled off to climb, would be magnets for a heat-seeking rocket. [Later they found the engines and were forced to rule it out as the initial event.]

The Stinger theory resonated with the FBI, which had picked up intelligence that some terrorists had been shopping for the lethal weapons. As the 6 a.m. meeting got underway in the SVTS room, there was a “lot of breathless talk” about attacks bny missiles, or MANPADS, the scronym for Man Portable Air Defense Systems. (“A what?” demanded a White House aide unfamiliar with military jargon) Still, some experts were dubious. The Stingers handed out to the muj are at least a decade old now, and probably junk by now.

The Pentagon cast further doubt on the Stinger theory with some simple math. The effective range of a Stinger is just over two miles, and its sensor can’t lock on aircraft much above 11,000 feet. Flight 800 blew up 10 miles offshore at 13,700 feet. By the end of the meeting, some officals were wondering whether the radar blip was a model rocket. And at air-traffic control on Long Island, FAA officials reviewing radar tapes were unable even to find the mysterious blip. »

– July 29, 1996 Newsweek, page 32.

The blip didn’t exist. It was a false rumor, circulated at very high levels. As for the model rocket that was a way of backing away from
the story without implying somebody might be lying. The same thing goes for talk of “anomalies” on the tape.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/24/2013 @ 1:18 pm

ZOMFG WTFBBQ SAMMYLANCHE

JD (b63a52) — 6/24/2013 @ 1:37 pm

False rumors based on SOOPEREKRIT intelligence

JD (ea33cf) — 6/24/2013 @ 1:39 pm

More than 150 “credible” witnesses — including several scientists — have told the FBI and military experts they saw a missile destroy TWA Flight 800, The Post has learned. Sources provided startling new details from the frustrating two-month probe — persuading agents to acknowledge that the witnesses’ accounts point toward a missile:

The FBI interviewed 154 “credible” witnesses — including scientists, schoolteachers, Army personnel and business executives — who described seeing a missile heading through the sky just before Flight TWA 800 exploded. “Some of these people are extremely, extremely credible,” a top federal official said.

http://twa800.com/news/newyorkpost.htm

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/24/2013 @ 1:43 pm

157. Comment by JD (ea33cf) — 6/24/2013 @ 1:39 pm

False rumors based on SOOPEREKRIT intelligence

No SOOPER SEKRIT intelligence. Except maybe for the idea of terrorists having Stinger missiles.

But basically the alleged PRINTOUT of a rtadar screen tghat could never be traced, and maybe one or two supposed witnesses.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/24/2013 @ 1:47 pm

“ZOMFG WTFBBQ SAMMYLANCHE”

– JD

Like I said, I think Sammy is an interesting and valuable contributor to the blog… but when he does this stuff I’m going to start calling him “Spammy Finkelman.”

Leviticus (b98400) — 6/24/2013 @ 1:47 pm

The FBI never let released the names of any of these witnesses, so the stories could not be checked. But they didn’t agree with each other as to time, color and the direction or location of the streaks.

Kallstrom had set the FBI to collecting such stories.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/24/2013 @ 1:49 pm

Kallstrom knew that if he released the names of the witnesses and the accounts – which by the way were secondhand FBI accounts – the whole idea there were numerous witnesses could be exploded. Question number one would be: at what time did you see this?

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/24/2013 @ 1:51 pm

Sammy–so we do not misunderstand your point–do you think the Clinton WH would prefer to fabricate a friendly fire missile strike to a commercial plane to cover up some sort of mob hit? Is this what you are saying?

elissa (0b3286) — 6/24/2013 @ 1:55 pm

At the Secure Videoteleconference System (SVTS) room in the basement of the West Wing of the White House, the U.S. government’s crisis command center, the product of the Feds’ investigative machinery began to trickle in at about 10:30 p.m., less than two hours after Flight 800 had vanished from the radar screen. From secure rooms throughout the bureaucracy — the Command Center at the Department of Justice, the Strategic Information Operations Center at the FBI — top officials, their agencies identified by little cards beneath each video monitor along the wall of the windowless 20-foot-by-40-foot room, briefed, quarreled and jockeyed for position at 2 a.m., at 6 a.m., at 10 a.m. and at 4 p.m. during the first 24 hours after the crash. At the 4 p.m. meeting on Thursday, the SVTS room was so crowded that the counterterrorism experts who had arrived early were bumped from their seats to make way for President Clinton’s staff, who, not uncustomarily, arrived late. Everyone was aware that careers, as well as the safety of passengers, were at stake. Some officials are wary of SVTS teleconferencing. They can’t be sure which rival bureaucrats might be hiding along the wall where the camera can’t see them………….

The initial talk in the SVTS room focused not on a bomb, but on a missile. Some eyewitnesses thought they had seen something bright arcing toward the jet just before it blew up. At the dawn SVTS conference on Thursday, an FAA official reported that a strange radar blip had crossed the TWA craft as it vanished from the screen. The massive engines of a 747, throttled up to climb, would be magnets for a heat-seeking rocket.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/1996/07/28/death-on-flight-800.html

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/24/2013 @ 2:01 pm

Fire does not melt steel in daylight!

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/24/2013 @ 2:05 pm

163. Comment by elissa (0b3286) — 6/24/2013 @ 1:55 pm

Sammy–so we do not misunderstand your point–do you think the Clinton WH would prefer to fabricate a friendly fire missile strike to a commercial plane to cover up some sort of mob hit? Is this what you are saying?

I think Clinton tossed out a bunch of theories, and the one theory he didn’t want anyone to think is that it had something to do with the mob.

The missile theory (two versions of it – Friendly Fire and terrorist) was never intended to be a final theiry but a theory for the people who would be skeptical of the investigations’s conclusions.

I think also that within a few hours he and some others understood exactly what had happened, and determined to cover it up.

I don’t think anyone planned for the plane to explode off the coast of Long Island or there would have been a better coverup.

Either it was supposed to explode much further out on the ocean, or it wasn’t supposed to explode at all and was a complete accident.

But an accident that resulted from an illegal act.

Maybe somebody was smuggling firecrakers or other explosives to Europe, and the mob affiliated union had put it on the plane. Or some bad repair work had been done. I suppose a murder is another possibility, but I am nots ure who is the candidate for a target. If a hit, the target might not have been a perosn but a company: TWA.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/24/2013 @ 2:10 pm

Sammy believes all these conspiracy theories of the past; (i.e., JFK assassination, TWA plane, the Lindbergh Baby, et al) but bizarrely he cannot bring himself to believe that the Obama Administration, and in particular, the out-to-lunch Secretary of State Hilary Clinton are involved in a cover-up regarding Benghazi.

It’s like he believes in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Great Pumpkin, and in little Leprachauns who pinch people for not wearing green on St. Patrick’s Day, but at the same time he insists that the Tooth Fairy doesn’t exist—because that’s just make believe !

Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 6/24/2013 @ 2:12 pm

Sammy–thank you for more clearly stating your position.

elissa (0b3286) — 6/24/2013 @ 2:13 pm

I’m not sure what happened, but I think a fire broke out on the outside surface of the plane.

That is, a breach was made in the fuel tank, and fuel leaked outside. This is what the Eastwind Airlines pilot saw. This fire did not immediately destroy the plane, but it did after a minute or two when the hole in fuselage becamze bigger form the heat of the fire.

I’m stuck as to what exactly happened to cause the fire (which the pilots were not aware of, it not being inside the plane or within their fireld of view) except I think:

1) Within hours Bill Clinton was informed of exactly what had happened and determined to cover it up and knew he had to act quickly.

2) The cause probably had something to do with the mob.

And this man:

http://mobcopslawyersandinformantsand.blogspot.com/2012/08/scarpa-greg.html

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/24/2013 @ 2:17 pm

I tend to agree with Sammy. TWA 800 was not the only plane out of JFK to crash mysteriously around those years. I always suspected a saboteur who might only have been a thrill killer, not a terrorist or assassin. Moreover, the electrical wire through a fuel tank …? Ask any diesel driver about how hard it is to get kerosene to burst into flame let alone explode. You need a pretty precise fuel-air mixture that simply cannot exist in a full fuel tank.

nk (875f57) — 6/24/2013 @ 2:22 pm

Look what I just found:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_800_alternative_theories

This probably connects the pieces of the puzzle the wrong way:

In his book Cover Up: What the Government Is Still Hiding About the War on Terror, [41] Peter Lance wrote that TWA 800 was blown up by a bomb intended to disrupt the trial of terrorist Ramzi Yousef, the nephew of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed and planner of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.

Using official FBI 302s (informant documents),[42] Lance asserts that Ramzi Yousef orchestrated the attack from prison in an effort to get a mistrial for master-minding the Bojinka plot.

Lance claimed that the FBI had prior knowledge of this plot from a prison informant, but did not act on it.[43]

Lance cites similarities to Operation Bojinka, a prior plot developed by Yousef and Mohammed in which a very small (and thus more easily carried on board) “blasting cap” device could theoretically be used to ignite the plane’s fuel tank.

Backing the theory is the fact that the FBI found residues of RDX, the same explosive that would have been used in a bomb like this.[44] The occurrence of a similar incident (i.e. the explosion of TWA 800) while Yousef was safely in custody could have been used to justify a mistrial.

However, it was later assumed that the RDX residue came from a K-9 unit training exercise for a bomb sniffing dog in which RDX was placed within the plane for the dog to sniff out. This exercise occurred at St. Louis airport about 1 month before the explosion of TWA 800’s center wing fuel tank. The tail number of the plane which the training exercise took place was apparently not recorded, it was only noted that it took place on a “wide-body” aircraft, where three planes matching that description passed through the airport that day.

Lance actually interviewed Herman Burnett, the K-9 officer who conducted the test and he told Lance that he believed that he’d done the test on another 747 — not the plane that became the fatal flight.

This revelation shattered the FBI’s only explanation for the presence of high explosive residue on the passenger deck above where the fuel tank exploded. Lance suggests the decision to ignore that evidence was due to a Yousef-type RDX Bojinka-style bomb, possibly placed by Khalid Shaikh Mohammed or his operatives.

Lance further interviewed William Tobin, the FBI’s chief metallurgist who claimed that there was “no indicia” of bomb damage on TWA Flight 800. But when Lance asked him what he had used as a model to reach that conclusion: the bomb aboard Pan Am Flight 103 or the casio-nitro IED Yousef placed aboard Philippines Airlines Flight 434 in a test of the Bojinka device on December, 11th, 1994 [45] Tobin admitted that he didn’t even know of the PAL 434 bombing incident.

Lance contends that the decision by FBI and Justice Department officials to blame the crash of TWA Flight 800 on a fuel tank accident vs. an act of terror, was to impeach the credibility of Gregory Scarpa Jr. a capo in the Colombo crime family who spent 11 months from 1996-1997 in an FBI directed sting of Yousef while he was housed at the Metropolitan Correctional Center (Federal jail in Lower Manhattan).

Scarpa Jr., whose father Gregory Sr. had been a Top Echelon Criminal Informant (TECI) for the FBI for more than 30 years, was going to argue at trial that the crimes he had been indicted for were at the direction of his father while he was a TECI and thus sanctioned by the Justice Department.

Thus, Lance contends, in order to undermine Scarpa Jr.’s credibility and preserve a series of 75 Mafia prosecutions in the Eastern District of New York (EDNY) a decision was made by various DOJ officials to discredit Scarpa Jr. and thus ignore Yousef’s connection to the crash of TWA 800.

One of the most significant revelations by Yousef documented in a series of FBI 302 memos obtained by Lance [46] was a threat Yousef had made to put a bomb on a U.S. airliner during his Bojinka trial so that he would get a mistrial. The crash of TWA Flight 800 occurred on the eve of the most damning evidence against Yousef being admitted at trial and the very day after the crash Yousef, who was representing himself in federal court asked the Judge for a mistrial..

Comments: Now the story of the explosive residue being the result of a dog test has got extremely big holes in it.

I think the PETN was real and the RDX was made up by the FBI crime lab. Later, the FBI had to explain it away.

There were actually numerous positive results of PETN (I have a NYT story saying that) but the FBI crime lab (which later wound up in trouble) failed to confirm every oine – until the time came when they were going to say it was a bomb. They were almost about to call it a bomb in late August 1996. But then thought better of it, or got orders from Clinton.

The RDX false result was reported because PETN plus RDX = the kind of explosives Quaddafi had and it was known he had sent it to terrorists over the world. I doin’t think there was any RDX.

But, as I said, a bomb may be wrong too.

And IF Scarpa implicated Youssef that could be because somebody in the mob was planning to destroy the plane. I don’t think it would have helped Ramzi Youssef in any way to show that somebody else had committed a somewhat similar crime, so that whole thing makes no sense. And it wouldn’t have caused a mistrial,mnd it didn’t.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/24/2013 @ 2:30 pm

==It seems like when I have a different enough point of view than other people, people, people misunderstand what I say.==

Sammy, upthread this is what you said. I think it would help you and everybody else to be less frustrated if you could try to understand how hard it is for people to ascertain and follow along with what your point of view actually is. Please see your #169. How is it possible to carry on a conversation with you when “I don’t know”, “I’m stuck”, and “I’m not sure” is the operating premise?

elissa (0b3286) — 6/24/2013 @ 2:31 pm

It doesn’t even have to be a saboteur. It can be bogus parts.

While the pilot of an airplane goes down with the plane, that doesn’t apply to the mechanics.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/24/2013 @ 2:31 pm

172. I’m not sure about what actually happened to cause the crash, but am pretty sure of some facts about it and about the investigation.

I wasn’t sure what caused the fire, but felt pretty sure there was a fire on the outside of the plane.

And that it was not an honest investigation, and that the missile theory was part of the cover-up.

And that it probably had something to do with the mob at JFK Airport.

What went on in Boston also went on in New York with FBI agent Lindley DeVecchio and mobster Gregory Scarpa Sr. (who was heavily involved in goings on at JFK Airport)

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-20063985.html

http://www.4zzzfm.org.au/reviews/books/mafia-son-scarpa-mob-family-fbi-and-story-betrayal

Lindley Devecchio was actually cleared by teh local FBI office (an indication of the depth of the guilt and involvement there in the new York City FBI office) and charges were dropped on basically technical grounds of supposed witness credibility.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/01/nyregion/01cnd-devecchio.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/17/nyregion/17agent.html?_r=0

And if it was something else that was being covered up, it would not have been possible to get the New York City FBI office to participate in the coverup.

Not quite on the right track:

http://ajmacdonaldjr.wordpress.com/2013/06/19/six-ntsb-investigators-claim-the-official-twa-flight-800-crash-story-is-a-lie/

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/25/2013 @ 12:26 pm

The gay marriage decision will be tomorrow. How do we know this?

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/25/2013 @ 12:27 pm

6/20/2013

Gay Marriage Decisions Today?

176 Responses to “Gay Marriage Decisions Today?”

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