Christie Once Again Screws GOP for Own Benefit
Eric Turkwitz recently wrote me to and offer this as a short guest post:
If Gov. Christie picks a Republican to fill Lautenberg’s Senate seat, Democrats will be (rightly) pissed at him.
If Gov. Christie picks a Democrat to fill Lautenberg’s Senate seat, Republicans will be (rightly) pissed at him.
What’s a Governor to do if he has aspirations for the oval office and grabbing swing voters?
He will pick a respected and retired judge, currently doing mediations/arbitrations to resolve litigation, that promises not to run for the seat in the special election. The politics of the judge won’t matter as much because of the (somewhat) insulating effect of the robe and the view of such individuals as relatively fair arbiters.
Interesting take, but one that has been overrun by events — because Christie has already decided, and his choice is the most selfish response possible: calling a special election in October, but setting it two weeks earlier than his own. Christie thus rejected the option of appointing someone (a retired judge, or whomever) to serve through November 2014 — which would give a GOP challenger time to raise money and campaign. As Allahpundit explains, holding an election this soon is certain to fatally hobble the GOP candidate — but will help Christie’s image, while also conveniently shielding his own re-election prospects from the ruinous spectre of the horde of Democrat voters who will turn out to support the Democrat replacement for Lautenberg:
[I]n order to protect his own ass electorally, he decided to schedule the Senate special election in October, not on election day in November. Now he gets the best of both worlds, all but handing the seat to Booker ASAP to burnish his “bipartisan” brand while ensuring that he himself doesn’t have to face the extra Democratic voters who’ll turn out to vote for Booker.
Having a separate election will cost $12 million more, we are told — but what’s $12 million when it comes to Chris Christie’s public image?
P.S. I think Christie easily could have justified picking a Republican, on the basis that this is what the system calls for. In a situation where such a vacancy arises, the governor makes the call — and the electorate, by electing a Republican governor, implicitly approves his choice.
ISN’T IT IRONIC: The irony of this, of course, is that by electing a self-centered blowhard as governor, the New Jersey public has implicitly approved the kind of choices that self-centered blowhards make — meaning that the choice Christie has made here does indeed, in a very real sense, have the blessing of New Jersey’s political system. So I’m at peace with it: New Jersey gets what it deserves, and we get more evidence of the type of President that Christie would make. If anyone was confused before about why he should be opposed, that cloud of confusion should be lifting.
i think I would vote for hillary before i voted for piggy boy
happyfeet (8ce051) — 6/5/2013 @ 7:09 am“I don’t know the cost and frankly I don’t care ….”
This will be hung around his neck.
AZ Bob (c11d35) — 6/5/2013 @ 7:12 amthe way he didn’t stand up for his state, not once but twice says it all don’t it,
narciso (3fec35) — 6/5/2013 @ 7:15 amAs mentioned elsewhere yesterday,
selfish ambition, pride, and arrogance lead to all kinds of trouble.
Instead of choosing who to make enemies with, he choose to make enemies of anyone who wants principled government.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 6/5/2013 @ 7:16 amOf course, some could say that is a very small minority.
I said it before you, happyfeet (ok, I didn’t say “piggyboy”). Spot on, Patterico.
nk (875f57) — 6/5/2013 @ 7:18 amHow does the line go, hubris followed by nemesis,
narciso (3fec35) — 6/5/2013 @ 7:19 amObviously Christie was going to put his own self-interest over that of the GOP. Sun rises in east. And politics is not a coffee klatch or a sewing circle. Exactly how cocooned and naive is the blogosphere’s chattering class? Geez.
Christie’s overall strategy is a classic case of putting the cart before the horse. Mentally speaking he’s already running in a national general election years before Iowans get together and project their various reality detachments.
What he should have done is played all sides against the middle: thrown some red meat to the red meat crowd by appointing the most conservative guy in the state senate or state assembly who was willing to take a temporary gig in D.C. and simultaneously set a special election a couple of months after his own reelection.
Not that it ultimately will matter. To win in this day and age as a non-incumbent a national GOP primary you basically have to have ran in a prior contested national election cycle (Romney, McCain, Dole, Reagan), or you need to be a juggernaut with colossal sums of money at your disposal and the full weight of the party apparatuses behind you (Bush 43). Christie fits neither bill. So barring some sort of Mayan-style cosmic infarction Christie won’t be the next GOP nominee. Meaning the likes of Hot Air and its ilk will need to find another voodoo doll.
William Scalia (89a442) — 6/5/2013 @ 7:24 amHappyfeet,
You would really vote for big spender Hillary ahead of Christie? I was foolish to believe your claim to be a fiscal conservative.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 7:28 amHeh!
nk (875f57) — 6/5/2013 @ 7:34 amOf course he does, why wouldn’t he? What’s the down-side? Nada.
mojo (8096f2) — 6/5/2013 @ 7:40 amthe money piggy boy is spending on his super special jersey trash senate election coulda married fuggles several times over
happyfeet (8ce051) — 6/5/2013 @ 7:44 amSimonides thought: “Do good to your friends and evil to your enemies.” Christie thought: “Is it good to eat?”
nk (875f57) — 6/5/2013 @ 7:51 amHat tip to posters who can restrain themselves from insulting opponents. Shaking my head at the usual antics from people who cannot help but be personal in their attacks.
Whatevers. Seems to be the order of the day.
DRJ #8, you cannot be surprised. This is all personality, in both sense of the term, and that worries me no end.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 6/5/2013 @ 7:58 amA question for introspection: If another R governor in another important but iffy to R’s state–a governor you all liked better–oh like Scott Walker– did a pragmatically political thing like CC in order to assure his own gubernatorial re-election and that of countless other Republicans in lower end state races–would you be brutalizing him from afar for being self serving and selfish and pompous? Or would you be supporting his decision and cheering him on for knowing how to play hard nosed practical politics in his state, for understanding his adversaries, and for preserving his top spot?
elissa (4d9fe8) — 6/5/2013 @ 7:59 amChristie has lost any benefit of the doubt, then again even our Lex Luthor governor is terribly dissapointing, and no they didn’t he was going to be such a jackwagon.
narciso (3fec35) — 6/5/2013 @ 8:02 amchristie has been very clear about his priorities elissa
#1 chris christie
#2 anything with powdered sugar on it
#3 taking design cues from circus elephant show props for to design an oval office chair what can support his pompous ass
#4 fellating food stamp
#5 sprinkling powdered sugar on food stamp and then fellating him some mores
#6 oinking to a camera to the effect that he doesn’t give a damn about politics and blah and also blah
#7 lunch
happyfeet (8ce051) — 6/5/2013 @ 8:06 am#8 enthusiastically implementing obamacare
happyfeet (8ce051) — 6/5/2013 @ 8:10 amDRJ posted the following link on another thread at about the same time Patterico opened up this thread. It belongs here, too. And it deserves both a read and contemplation.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2013/06/05/why_chris_christie_might_be_a_genius_118696.html
elissa (4d9fe8) — 6/5/2013 @ 8:30 amWhat’s the point of working for and supporting Republicans when they do things like this? Krispy had the chance to do something that would help the ‘pubbies out, and he dumps all over them. And let me tell you, that’s a prodigious dump.
LWGII (c27c59) — 6/5/2013 @ 8:33 amRemember back on SNL when Al Franken would look into the camera and talk about “me — Al Franken”?
Icy (828f0f) — 6/5/2013 @ 8:53 amIn his own way, Fat Boy is as arrogant as Obozo. If I want to elect a King, (and I don’t) at least the son of a gun should tell the voters he’s running for King.
Comanche Voter (f4c7d5) — 6/5/2013 @ 9:04 amhappyfeet,
In had a feeling you would say that. If Hillary doesn’t care about paying her campaign vendors while simultaneously indulging her daughter with a multiple-million dollar wedding, don’t you think she will embrace an Obama-like imperial Presidency?
Apparently not.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 9:28 amIt’s really the fat that you hate about Christie, isn’t it? Are you that superficial?
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 9:29 amthe fat is a metaphor for his bloated sense of trashy jersey-style self-importance I think
happyfeet (c60db2) — 6/5/2013 @ 9:32 amChristy and Rubio have shown their true colors in recent months. No amount of campaign wizardry in 2015-2016 can bury their actions deep enough for them to be forgotten.
Christy’s track record is starting to bear some resemblance to that of Marshal Petain who ran the Vichy government in France. That ultimately didn’t work out so well for his political future either.
in_awe (7c859a) — 6/5/2013 @ 9:37 amVoting is over rated.
mg (31009b) — 6/5/2013 @ 9:59 amLobbying is where it’s at.
“Christy’s track record is starting to bear some resemblance to that of Marshal Petain who ran the Vichy government in France”
in_awe – Track record for who? New Jersey or some state or constituency he was not elected by?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/5/2013 @ 10:09 amI would personally love to see Governor Christie appoint Steve Forbes as the interim Senator.
But as elissa points out, we have to keep in mind what a blue state New Jersey is.
Christie won four years ago because Corzine was so pathetically corrupt. And even then, Christie only won by something like 5 or 6 points. If Corzine had only been half-corrupt, he probably would have squeaked by Christie.
While appointing a Steve Forbes would give our side a strong voice and one more vote in the Senate, the Dems would still have a strong operational majority.
So I see where Christie might be weighing the opportunity cost of “merely one more vote in the US Senate for eighteen months” VS giving himself a better chance to win re-election in November.
I’m not certain it is the strategy I would take if I were in his shoes, but his calculation may be his best chance for holding onto enough Democrat voters to enable his re-election.
We have to be honest about the electorate of New Jersey; they’re never going to elect a Ted Cruz or Rand Paul or Mike Lee.
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 6/5/2013 @ 10:26 amBut half a loaf of bread is better than no loaf of bread. (I can see the ‘Christie ate the bread !’ cracks coming.)
Elephant Stone – I just wonder why people who live outside New Jersey believe that Chris Christie owes them something and should be accountable to them in some way.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/5/2013 @ 10:37 amClearly, Christie has decided not to run in 2016. At least not as a Republican.
Note aside: can you imagine Christie appointing an Alito or Thomas to the Court? It would be Anthony Kennedy over and over again. At best.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 6/5/2013 @ 10:42 am“Clearly, Christie has decided not to run in 2016.”
I think first it would help if he got reelected governor this Fall, but that’s just me.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/5/2013 @ 10:44 amI just wonder why people who live outside New Jersey believe that Chris Christie owes them something and should be accountable to them in some way.
Because he is supposed to be part of a team. If you ignore that, you have no call to criticize people like Dede Scozzafava.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 6/5/2013 @ 10:46 amIf national Republicans are not important to him, he is not important to national Republicans.
nk (875f57) — 6/5/2013 @ 10:48 amDid anybody bother to read the Sean Trende piece that DRJ linked and I reposted here? Anybody? Anybody? Bueller?”
elissa (4d9fe8) — 6/5/2013 @ 10:48 amThat’s actually a very important point (#29)you make, Daley.
The election of US Senators by each state has sort of morphed into a national referendum ever since that Amendment was passed a hundred years ago, enabling the direct election of a US Senator as opposed to the election of US Senators by their own state legislature.
We who reside in other states can all throw eggs at Christie and tell him what he should do, but none of us is going to get the opportunity to cast a ballot for him in November. He really must do what he believes is best for his constituents, and at the same time consider his best prospects for re-election.
Of course, what he’s choosing to do does not necessarily guarantee his re-election, but I’d have to suppose that announcing, “I’m appointing Steve Forbes to be Senator for the next eighteen months !” would give his re-election opponent some ammo in which to paint Christie as a partisan.
(And please don’t anyone misunderstand, I love Steve Forbes.)
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 6/5/2013 @ 11:00 am“Because he is supposed to be part of a team.”
Kevin M. – He was elected by the people in his state, not a Team. His first allegiance is to the people of his state, not a Team. Or if you believe he was on a Team, who was on the ticket with him?
He has not indicated that he is running for national office. 2016 is a long way off.
I am curious which of his actions or positions you feel disqualify him from running as a Republican?
I think he’s a little strange on global warming. He’s also waffled on his insistence on aid after Hurricane Sandy, whether it was for the pork laden bill or without the pork.
Please advise with respect to his disqualifications.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/5/2013 @ 11:14 amI did, elissa, but I know you knew that. Maybe we’re the only ones.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 11:14 am“Did anybody bother to read the Sean Trende piece that DRJ linked and I reposted here? Anybody? Anybody? Bueller?””
elissa – Doesn’t seem like it. Everybody’s just venting.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/5/2013 @ 11:15 amFWIW I concede that Christie made a very smart political move, but I also think he did it primarily to help himself. If so, happyfeet may be right that Christie has an inflated sense of his own importance or is too self-centered.
Of course, Christie and all politicians have to worry about winning but if Republican leaders put themselves above Party in every decision, I’m afraid we won’t end up with a Republican Party that stands for conservatism. We’ll end up with a Party of Obamas.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 11:20 amIs there a line yet on how many days after his re-election Christie will re-register as an Independent, on the road to becoming another Bloomberg Democrat?
askeptic (b8ab92) — 6/5/2013 @ 11:21 am“Of course, Christie and all politicians have to worry about winning but if Republican leaders put themselves above Party in every decision, I’m afraid we won’t end up with a Republican Party that stands for conservatism.”
DRJ – I think Christie demonstrated from the entrenched interests he took on during his first term, teachers, judges, local government, that he was not putting his own popularity foremost in tackling difficult issues and New Jersey voters have actually responded favorably to it in his approval ratings.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/5/2013 @ 11:26 amThat’s a good point, daleyrocks, and I agree Christie generally does what he thinks is best for New Jersey. But as a former prosecutor, he knows that sometimes you have to make tough decisions and let the chips fall where they may. As you point out, he did that with school/pension financing and other issues. Why wasn’t he willing to do it here?
And it’s not just this one instance that makes me question him. He was soft on Obama during his keynote speech supporting Romney at the Convention, and then he courted Obama after Hurricane Sandy and Newtown. Maybe that’s how Christie really feels but what these things also have in common is they helped Christie’s approval ratings in New Jersey and hurt (or didn’t help) his political party. At some point that’s a pattern, not a fluke.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 11:45 amPeople have commented that it is easy to be a conservative or Republican in a Red state. They frequently fail to appreciate the considerations required to operate as Republican in a Blue state with Democrat majorities in both houses of a state legislature and are as quick to play the RINO card as Democrats are to play the racist card.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/5/2013 @ 11:46 amAlso, I remember trying to defend Christie for going soft on Obama at the Convention keynote. I thought he was doing what Romney wanted, but later reports cast doubt on that. Maybe there’s some sour grapes on my part for being wrong, but I hope not. I hope what I’m responding to is a logical conclusion based on his pattern.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 11:47 amdaleyrocks,
It’s also hard to be a liberal in a red state but you take on challenges because you believe in your position, whether it’s hard or easy.
Or move to Texas.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 11:49 amBelieve it or not, we do have bipartisan accomplishments here, even though Republicans win most of the state-wide offices.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 11:52 amDo you think that the Republican candidates in New Jersey’s hamlets, townships, villages, counties and small cities who are hoping to ride Christie’s popularity and gubernatorial coat tails believe he put “himself above “party”? In New Jersey right now, as the governor isn’t he head of the party? Doesn’t he represent the party at the top of the ticket? Yes, in that state he needs to attract independents and hang on to some disaffected Dem voters from last time, too. But I do not get where the “he’s only in it for himself” or “he’s putting himself above the party” stuff comes from.
elissa (dba240) — 6/5/2013 @ 11:58 am“At some point that’s a pattern, not a fluke.”
DRJ – Which is the pattern and not a fluke? Making tough decisions to help his state that people like Scott Walker in Wisconsin emulated or going on the campaign trail for Republicans in 2012 but not sticking his neck too far out in his convention speech?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/5/2013 @ 11:59 am“But I do not get where the “he’s only in it for himself” or “he’s putting himself above the party” stuff comes from.”
elissa – It is coming from the media and people from outside the state.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/5/2013 @ 12:03 pm==Why wasn’t he willing to do it here?==
DRJ, I think I am not clear on what it is you think he was not “willing to do here”.
elissa (dba240) — 6/5/2013 @ 12:03 pm“Everybody’s just venting,” sniffed Mr. daleyrocks, sniffily. “It’s cause of they are not Team Players like me and porky porky chris christie.”
“Whaaaaaa?” said happyfeet, his eyes filled with hurt and dismay. “I can’t believe you would say that – I’m way way WAY more of a Team Player than porky porky. You never once your whole life seen me implementing obamacares or cooing about how wonderful and sexy our food stamp president is.”
Mr. daleyrocks regarded happyfeet thoughtfully.
“You’re right, happy,” he said after a moment. “I apologize.”
“It’s ok Mr. daley,” said happy. “These are indeed the times that try men’s souls I think.”
“Nicely said, happy. Nicely said”
“Thanks!”
happyfeet (c60db2) — 6/5/2013 @ 12:14 pmDRJ,
Let’s say that Christie were to have appointed Steve Forbes as the interim Senator, who would serve until an election in Nov 2014.
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 6/5/2013 @ 12:15 pmDo you think it would help Christie’s chances of winning re-election this November (2013) ?
I’m sorry I wasn’t clear. I think Christie put his own interests above the Republican Party’s interests by: courting Obama, going soft on Obama in his convention speech, and declining to appoint a Republican to serve as Senator. It may be that his political calculations tell him he had to do those things in order to continue as Governor, but (again) at some point it becomes a pattern that tells us where his priorities are. The capitalist in me applauds him. The conservative in me, not so much.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 12:17 pmElephant Stone,
No, it wouldn’t help him. But it would tell us something about whether he thinks it’s important to have conservative leadership in more than just the New Jersey state house.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 12:18 pmWow. People piling a lot of responsibility for a lotta stuff on one blue state’s governor.
elissa (dba240) — 6/5/2013 @ 12:27 pmDRJ,
Dude, as Governor of New Jersey, Christie’s domain is the state of New Jersey.
It is a fluke that he’s been given this opportunity to appoint someone to fill the seat of arch-liberal Lautenberg. But appointing a Republican would surely doom Christie’s re-election chances this November. That is because the electorate in NJ does not want a Republican in the Senate—otherwise, they would have elected one.
While certainly, we always want as many
Republicansconservatives in the Senate as possible, one more vote at this time will not do much to thwart Harry Reid and his ham-fisted reigns.The opportunity cost of throwing away Christie’s re-election chances in order to have one more vote in the US Senate for a mere eighteen months is not an equitable exchange.
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 6/5/2013 @ 12:32 pmChristie is up 30 points in New Jersey, so I don’t think he’s going to lose this election. He wants to win the election in a landslide so he can use it as a catapult to the national stage. But part of his job as Governor of New Jersey is filling Senate vacancies.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 12:48 pmYes, elissa, I do expect a lot of elected Republican officials.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 12:49 pmthat’s some catapult
happyfeet (c60db2) — 6/5/2013 @ 12:49 pmI counteract that by expecting nothing of Democratic officials.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 12:50 pmHe’ll weigh a lot less by then, happyfeet.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 12:50 pmSo it won’t have to be as big a catapult.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 12:51 pmOnly defense the tub of lard has is this will help him get more (R) seats in the State Legislature.
In that sense, it is a good move b/c (D) will spend huge to keep the Senate Seat and (D) Voters are too lazy and stupid to go twice to elections in a three week period with busing and free food.
Rodney King's Spirit (ae12ec) — 6/5/2013 @ 12:57 pm#63 with = without
Rodney King's Spirit (ae12ec) — 6/5/2013 @ 1:02 pmI’m amused at the argument ‘if you’re not in New Jersey then by criticizing Chris Christie you are unjustifiably saying he owes you something’.
Ultimately, by practically campaigning for Obama at the eleventh hour of the presidential election, Christie helped his state get money from the federal. So yeah, he owes me something.
By spending millions he doesn’t care about just to push an election a few days up (obviously solely to engineer an electorate more favorable to himself) Christie has proven to have a serious problem with judgment and leadership. Patterico is right that we can see what kind of president Christie would be. RINOs are masters of expediency, and the only question is how far will they take it. They are a special breed of politician and conservatives are wise to treat them with suspicion. We don’t need another Nixon.
I don’t expect moderate republicans to suddenly say they won’t criticize Rick Perry because he doesn’t owe them anything. But the argument’s presence is a good thing because it indicates even Christie’s remaining Republican fans realize his record can’t take the heat.
I hope Tea Partiers can take their rightful place at the front of the party in 2014 and 2016. I hope they can be more organized instead of split to the four winds, never coalescing around anything or anyone in 2012. That’s the key to getting reform back on track. Christie is not a welcome part of that conversation and is more likely to go the Spector, Christie, Bloomberg ‘no labels’ route.
Moving an election up a few days is transparent and cynical and it’s a shame anyone would have his back on this.
Dustin (303dca) — 6/5/2013 @ 1:02 pmDRJ,
We all want to put a stop to this left wing madness currently being facillitated by Obama Incorporated.
Sometimes, one has to weigh (I can already see the fat jokes coming !)the long-term interest VS short-term gratification.
In the current partisan make-up of the US Senate, one more GOP vote for the next eighteen months is not going to do anything to thwart Harry Reid.
Consider ‘The Art of War.’
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 6/5/2013 @ 1:08 pmI’m just curious, Elephant Stone. How long are we red staters going to have to hold the conservative line while conservatives in the blue states argue for special understanding of their difficult circumstances? In other words, is there every going to be a time when it’s okay to give up on the blue states?
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 1:15 pmRight now the Senate is 52 vs 45, no?
So Elephant Stone is right that one seat wasn’t going to manifest into any reforms.
But principles matter. I would be less frustrated had Christie been a man and just selected Booker. We have a corrupt government, and anyone who pushes an election up a few days to benefit themselves like Christie did is part of the problem.
Dustin (303dca) — 6/5/2013 @ 1:18 pmBy the way, I don’t believe that Christie would win the nomination over a more conservative, Constitution-based, articulate candidate such as a Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, Bobby Jindal, Mike Pence, Scott Walker, or Marco Rubio, nor would I support Christie for the nomination over any of the aforementioned.
I think that Christie’s bromance with Obama a week before the election last November may have been the tipping point of the election—that, and the fact Romney took his foot off the gas pedal after the first debate where he wiped Obama off the stage.
But in the current Senate make-up, one more vote GOP during the next eighteen months would be nice, but largely ineffectual as long as the Dems have such a large margin and Harry Reid running the joint.
Christie must consider his re-election by weighing the desires of his constituency—that’s an important part of our representative democracy.
Look, if this were a Republican governor of a solidly Republican state doing this, that would be an entirely different ballgame.
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 6/5/2013 @ 1:20 pmBut this is New Jersey we’re talking about—and they don’t want a Republican Senator for the next eighteen months.
How do you know one person might not have made a difference, Dustin? One principled, well-spoken person like Steve Forbes might share information that could change a mind or help a Republican colleague, or convince some of the public because he would have a bigger platform from which to speak.
But I’m not opposed to Christie. I still like his ability to communicate extemporaneously. This is the guy I don’t care for.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 1:21 pmThe tea party will not do well in New Jersey and Illinois, Dustin. But they’ll do very well in Texas and Indiana and other places. That’s why we need a big tent and a big tent mentality and why we need a variety of strong right leaning candidates that run the gamut from Perry to Christie who can appeal to their state’s constituents and head their state’s version of the Republican party.
elissa (dba240) — 6/5/2013 @ 1:23 pmIf that’s true, elissa, then we are forced to face the reality that a nominee acceptable to the Tea Party states will never be acceptable in places like New Jersey or Illinois. Isn’t that essentially saying that the GOP must always have nominees like Romney, McCain and Christie?
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 1:26 pmI think the Senate was actually 55-45 prior to Lautenberg’s death. (I know Bernie Sanders does not have a “D” by his name, but he caucauses/votes with them.)
If I could wave a magic wand, the Senate would contain nothing but one hundred Ted Cruzes, but I totally see why Christie’s doing this.
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 6/5/2013 @ 1:26 pmI’ve voted for and supported them for 2 straight cycles. I can’t do it again.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 1:27 pmWe can’t waive magic wands, Elephant Stone. All we can do is pressure Republicans to do what we want, just as Obama is the natural result of pressure from the left-wing of the Democratic Party.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 1:28 pmIf Christie gets blowback, maybe he will think twice about moving further left. If he gets understanding, he won’t.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 1:29 pmOK, you’ve got me there. The right kind of guy with a little bully pulpit time can do amazing things. Especially if he could prove himself to people in that part of the country. The occasional well spoken and strong Republican leader does seem to be able to get a following and make a difference once in a while.
I guess I just don’t have any confidence that Christie would dare pick someone like that. That’s part of my calculation.
I also don’t think New Jersey wants that kind of Senator, unfortunately, so my frustration is not that Christie didn’t push one on them (though a democrat would have taken full advantage of the power of his office and cited ‘elections have consequences’, and matching that kind of spirit is something Republicans should be willing to do but almost never will). I think the people should get the representation they want, so long as they also pay for it (no debt saved for kids is my big sticking point).
But re-engineering the electorate with costly additional elections is too far. I hope Christie loses the next election. He’s an embarrassment to the GOP.
Dustin (303dca) — 6/5/2013 @ 1:31 pmRead the article.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 6/5/2013 @ 1:33 pmI think I understand, but I have an aversion to his scheduling a special election less than 3 weeks away from an already scheduled election because it will make him look better and make it easier for repubs to ride his coattails. I mean it really is going out of his way to use his in-office position to sway election results.
I would like to be above that and leave it to Chicago.
Actually, be need leaders who spend less money, not more money on additional elections to reengineer the vote in selfish ways, and then use their office to lobby for more federal money.
The Republican Party is not the end goal for me. That’s why a politician can go too far where his membership in Team R is not welcome or enough for me to tolerate his corruption. And corruption is exactly what this is.
But yes, of course we need a big tent. Or maybe what we really need is federalism so I don’t have to care if New Jersey is run by slimeballs.
Dustin (303dca) — 6/5/2013 @ 1:34 pmE.S. I see you’ve mentioned it several times. Just FYI, I don’t think anyone believes the emergency appointment would have lasted for 18 months without a special election being called and held well before then. This has been discussed on several threads. But that picky point aside, I think you’ve added some very good insight in your comments to this thread.
elissa (dba240) — 6/5/2013 @ 1:34 pmWell said, MD. The rest of this is interesting and debatable politics. Christie making a calculation to preserve his governorship at the expense of a senator is a judgment call that I can see argued both ways, but it doesn’t cross any lines for me. I mean, we already knew Christie was not a team player near the end of the presidential election last year.
Dustin (303dca) — 6/5/2013 @ 1:36 pmWhy?
The voters of New Jersey elected Christie their governor. He ran on the Republican ticket with the party’s nomination and support.
State governors get to fill U.S. Senate vacancies. The voters of New Jersey knew that when they cast their votes for or against Christie.
He should have appointed a Republican, period. There is no basis whatsoever for partisan opponents of a state governor to be pissed, rightly or wrongly, or even surprised, when his discretionary appointments track the governor’s own party label.
Beldar (e34770) — 6/5/2013 @ 1:41 pmelissa, thank you.
So, if I understand it correctly, in other words, New Jersey would theoretically have a Steve Forbes in Harry Reid’s US Senate for even less than eighteen months, at the risk of alientating the Democrat/independent voters that he needs for re-election ?!
Yikes, then I really don’t understand all the hand-wringing.
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 6/5/2013 @ 1:43 pmIt will be very funny if Romney is the last Republican presidential candidate I vote for. Conservatives need to think ahead a little further and realize that this big tent talk is not intended to help them get anything they need. It is actually the best way to keep reform from happening, as the ‘best’ candidate on a spectrum will always be at the middle, and the middle today = spending this country to oblivion.
Democrats can always take the middle, promise goodies with more credibility, and win. The GOP will never be a powerful political force by trying to share the middle. The only chance it has is with principles and backbone and a prayer that enough people pay attention.
So my first question of any politician is if they are truly doing what’s right. Christie simply isn’t. Holding an additional election is morally wrong.
Dustin (303dca) — 6/5/2013 @ 1:43 pmOn the broader subject of Gov. Christie’s future prospects within the national GOP: They are less substantial than Nelson Rockefeller’s ever were, for pretty much the same reasons, and the only way he’ll ever see the Oval Office is as a guest or, maybe (unlikely IMHO) a more conservative Republican POTUS’ Veep.
He’s an effective voice on many issues and I’m happy to have him in the party. But I’m not interested in debating whether he ought to have a brighter national future within the GOP because that’s just not going to happen.
Beldar (e34770) — 6/5/2013 @ 1:46 pmBeldar, we know that the authority to select a replacement Senator belongs to the Governor.
Whether or not the Democrat electorate of NJ should or shouldn’t be surprised if Christie were to select a member of his own party to be the replacement Senator is only half of the enchilada.
The other half of the enchilada is what would those voters do to Christie in November ?The clueless Democrat voters of NJ have a right “to be surprised” and they have the right to vote him out as a result of being surprised.
I’m arguing that it is not worth the risk to inspire their wrath, simply so we can have another GOP vote in Harry Reid’s US Senate for six months, twelve months, or whatever, until there’s a special election and a Democrat is elected to replace the replacement.
The thing that really has me worried is that Corzine was as nakedly corrupt as they come, yet he still only lost to Christie by like 5 or 6 points.
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 6/5/2013 @ 1:52 pmHe certainly was effective in praising Obama in the run up to the general election.
I personally would be happier with an ethical democrat than a corrupt republican. I’m not optimistic that Christie would be replaced with one, but it’s possible. Abusing one’s office to skew one’s own election is moral turpitude, and I’m just not partisan enough to pretend I don’t see it.
But these are tough times for the country, and I can understand the appeal of ignoring that as we pretend the problem with this country is the democrat party, and not selfish politicians in both parties.
Dustin (303dca) — 6/5/2013 @ 1:53 pm71. 72. One of the communication problems I think we are all having on this thread is that we’re continually moving back and forth from state politics to national politics. DRJ, at 71 I was specifically referring to candidates such as for governorships and U.S. Rep and U.S. Senate. Within my own state even, a republican who wins handily in the county where I grew up is a completely different republican than can win in a Chicago collar county such as where I live now.
For national politics it comes down to the primaries. I am happy or at least willing to support whomever ultimately wins the R primary battle no matter who it is. That’s because even though the primary process is very flawed it is the only mechanism we currently have to gauge a presidential candidate’s broader support across both red and blue territories. I also will support the primary winner because the alternative of four more years of raw progressivism will hurl our country completely over the edge, I think.
elissa (dba240) — 6/5/2013 @ 1:57 pmOne vote could be the difference in a filibuster over amnesty.
JD (20406c) — 6/5/2013 @ 1:59 pmES: Waaaay too meta for me, and I don’t think it’s ever a good idea for the GOP, either locally within a state or nationally, to plot its course based on fears of what the stupidest of Democrats might think or do.
He’s a Republican governor. Lautenburg was old and sick; whoever is New Jersey’s governor should have had a short list of replacements already vetted and pre-considered, and he should have named one within 72 hours max. That’s just a no-brainer, like “Do we want our team to cover that fumbled football or not?” Whether you’re ahead or behind, whether it’s your offense or your defense on the field, you want to recover the damn fumble. It’s that simple.
If he thinks this is a big enough deal to cost him his own reelection, then (1) he’s cutting it way too close as an incumbent, even in a blue state, and (2) his priorities and overall judgment are FUBAR’d.
I do still hope, of course, that he gets reelected, and I don’t want to drive him from the party or purge him for insufficient party loyalty. But on this call, he stubbed his toe.
Beldar (e34770) — 6/5/2013 @ 2:01 pmBeldar – He stubbed his toe?! He shot himself in the toe. With a bowling ball. Fired from a bazooka.
JD (20406c) — 6/5/2013 @ 2:03 pmThere’s a whole list of Republicans I would support for the 2016 nomination before I would ever support Christie.
So I just want to make clear that I’m not supporting Christie on this issue because I want Christie to elevate his chances for the GOP nomination in the future.
I work in Hollywood, and am surrounded by nothing but left wing kooks at work, in my neighborhood, at the grocery store, at the beach, while stuck on the 405 in my vehicle—everywhere I go, left wing nuts.
I would like a Ted Cruz to occupy the White House, but in this instance, I just happen to see why Christie is trying to protect his standing with cross-over Democrats and independent voters in NJ.
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 6/5/2013 @ 2:03 pmDustin, old friend, I’m quite certain you knew that when I called Christie an effective voice on some issues, I chose that qualifying phrase carefully.
If we get worked up over blue-state Republicans’ failures to be sufficiently confrontational with Obama, we’re going to waste a lot of energy very unproductively.
Beldar (e34770) — 6/5/2013 @ 2:06 pmdoing more than anyone on the planet to reelect food stamp was not sufficiently confrontational I think
happyfeet (c60db2) — 6/5/2013 @ 2:08 pmOh, I think Lois Lerner, Doug Schulman and Stephanie Cutter hands down co-win that particular planet contest feets. Nice try, tho.
elissa (dba240) — 6/5/2013 @ 2:14 pmit was maybe hyperbole a little but not “wildly hyperbolic”
happyfeet (c60db2) — 6/5/2013 @ 2:15 pmi don’t w*rk in Hoolywood, but i live in the area…
give a choice between a useless RINO like Christie, and any Demonrat, the local population is going to vote D.
if the choice is Christie and a Scumbag D to be named later, i’m just voting the down ticket and to hell with the GOP.
i’m firmly convinced that the Beltway scum that run the RNC would rather be a perpetual minority part and keep their personal perks and access to power, than lose those yet win big in an election year.
redc1c4 (403dff) — 6/5/2013 @ 2:25 pmSpeaking of Cutter, in her role, why would she be in multiple meetings with the Director of the IRS?
JD (20406c) — 6/5/2013 @ 2:26 pmI see your point because we have gone back and forth during this discussion but, given today’s 24/7 media and cable, are there really any major offices at the state and federal level that aren’t potentially part of the national dialogue?
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 2:29 pmApparently this is my day to be unproductive, Beldar, and I’m enjoying it!
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 2:30 pmedit-> “…have the party win big…”
redc1c4 (403dff) — 6/5/2013 @ 2:31 pmThe notably plump govna from Jersey has no chance of success in a national election as a republican.
mg (31009b) — 6/5/2013 @ 2:33 pmhey everyone…
The Emperor (ca9435) — 6/5/2013 @ 3:03 pm99. Potentially yes, DRJ. Of course it (all politics) is connected to a very large degree. But I am frustrated by this thread and I think it’s because some people I respect very much on this blog, whose opinions and observations I will very much look forward to down the road with respect to Christie’s (and everyone else’s) chances at a presidential candidacy, are burning bridges and demonstrating a dangerous lack of knowledge or maybe a misunderstanding of New Jersey election politics. I think some, while unquestionably sincere and well intentioned, are missing how this Lautenberg situation plays against all that because they are only able to see the situation through the lens of their own regional and personal politics. The hostility has floored me.
elissa (dba240) — 6/5/2013 @ 3:07 pmRice and Cutter receive appointments…..
Dumb and Dumberer!
askeptic (b8ab92) — 6/5/2013 @ 3:17 pmThe faces of a Nation being Fundamentally Transformed.
“I’m amused at the argument ‘if you’re not in New Jersey then by criticizing Chris Christie you are unjustifiably saying he owes you something’.”
Dustin – Good for you. I’m amused by the argument that he has betrayed the national party by immediately naming a republican successor to democrat Lautenberg merely because he has the power.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/5/2013 @ 3:31 pmelissa,
I’ll still vote Republican if Christie or someone like him is the nominee in 2016, but I won’t donate. That’s going to have to be enough for the GOP this time, unless someone more conservative is the nominee.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 3:35 pmWell some of Soros’s people are donating to Christie, why not trained seals are less predictable,
narciso (3fec35) — 6/5/2013 @ 3:36 pmThe problem is that Republicans need money from blue states and red states, so they can’t alienate the Chris Christie supporters in New Jersey but they also can’t alienate Texas money. Romney’s top 3 fundraising states were California, New York and Texas.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 3:38 pmElissa #104: and that is why “our side” keep losing. I’m with you.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 6/5/2013 @ 3:38 pm“I’m just curious, Elephant Stone. How long are we red staters going to have to hold the conservative line while conservatives in the blue states argue for special understanding of their difficult circumstances?”
DRJ – I don’t think it is special pleadings as much as frustration with wishful thinking of Red staters who believe that since “True Conservative” can prevail in their own states they ought to be able to prevail anywhere and the resulting butthurt that they have not. Reality bites for everyone, not just those who live in Red states and wish the Blue states would get it.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/5/2013 @ 3:39 pm#106 – Correction – By not immediately naming
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/5/2013 @ 3:43 pmI’m frustrated by the contention that we should bow down to New Jersey realpolitik. The best we can expect from New Jersey is good enough? Really?
Baby, [New Jersey] rips the bones from your back
It’s a death trap, it’s a suicide rap
We’ve got to get out while we’re young
Cause tramps like us, baby we were born to run. — Christie’s hero
And yes, I read Sean Trende’s encomium as soon as it was linked. Tell me again why Trende is smarter than Patterico.
As Christie’s obesity being against him, why not? Gluttony and selfishness are sisters. You might see generosity from a miser, you will never see it from a glutton. Gluttons never share.
nk (875f57) — 6/5/2013 @ 3:53 pmI loved robert wuhl’s riff on that song, when it was suggested to be the state anthem,
narciso (3fec35) — 6/5/2013 @ 3:55 pmdaleyrocks,
I don’t think red state residents like myself are under any illusion that our way is the best or the only way, but we’ve tried the moderate approach — twice — and lost. Let’s try something else.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 3:58 pmI remember that, narciso. It was during the Born In The USA supercomeback Springsteen fever. I got tickets for that, for the concert in Chicago.
nk (875f57) — 6/5/2013 @ 4:05 pm110- Simon Jester – Because of your willingness to take the bait and compromise. Your side will continue to lose conservative voters. Skipping the last primary was liberating. You know,like flipping the bird to progressive republicans.
mg (31009b) — 6/5/2013 @ 4:09 pmOff topic but there is 10 days of hope for little Sarah’s lung transplant.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 4:12 pm‘Chip Dillard’ makes it seem like Obama really aided the state of New Jersey, while Lawton Chiles and Kathleen Blanco, made it seem Bush deliberately unleashed the 10 plagues on Florida and Louisiana,
narciso (3fec35) — 6/5/2013 @ 4:12 pmyou can’t ever win,
I think both Patterico and Sean Trende are smart. Ima big tent aficionado of smart. I think you’re pretty smart most of the time, too, nk.
elissa (dba240) — 6/5/2013 @ 4:22 pmI’ll serenade you with MY favorite Springsteen song, elissa.
nk (875f57) — 6/5/2013 @ 4:27 pmWhatever, mg. Show me where a “conservative” who fits your criteria wins big nationally. I think that conservatives have to look at Reagan’s strategy—and the overall electorate.
Do you think that Newt would have done better against Obama? Honestly? Bachmann?
Folks on the Right need to quit doing the Left’s job for them. But I don’t expect anyone to agree. And I would love to be wrong.
But hey. Be pure. And a Whig.
Simon Jester (930de8) — 6/5/2013 @ 4:33 pm==Let’s try something else.==
Do you see something other than, or major change to, the primary season dates, map and process, DRJ? I think there must be a better way for the parties to choose a national candidate but I have no idea how to go about it. (I love the grainy old news photos of the fisticuffs on the convention floor as delegates tried to get their candidate over the top and nominated.)
elissa (dba240) — 6/5/2013 @ 4:34 pmelissa- a couple of things
do you think Christie’s decision to do a special election on a date different from the November election already scheduled is problematic, or are you OK with it?
One thing about Christie, and all politicians, which is not their faults, is how the press goes wild over people and builds them up to mythical status, so that when it is clear they are still mortal after all it comes as a big letdown
From the beginning the image across the nation is portrayed as Christie being outspoken, not interested in “playing politics” and not taking crap from anybody, not even teacher’s unions
so when we see such a person making decisions for political expediency, it’s like, “Not playing politics, huh? Yeah, right.”
Yes, NJ is its own place. In 2002 a repub should have been elected senator instead of the scandalized dem toricelli, but rules were made for changin’
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 6/5/2013 @ 4:37 pmI’m talking about trying something new in substance, elissa, not process. Let’s try Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, Mike Lee, or Scott Walker.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 4:40 pmIf you want process, let’s work on term limits for everyone.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 4:40 pmelissa,
You mentioned the “hostility” floors you. Specifically, which comments do you consider hostile?
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 4:42 pmNewt would have thrown a few punches in defeat, that would have kept me around for the next election. Simon, have you ever thought about going rouge?
mg (31009b) — 6/5/2013 @ 4:42 pmComment by DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 4:12 pm
Yes, I heard that on the radio.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 6/5/2013 @ 4:43 pmThe article I think does a poor job explaining the situation. The judge said no reason to stick to an 8 yo arbitrary rule that no longer is medically valid.
Art Caplan, the bioethicist quoted, used to be at upenn (after Minn).
I think anybody involved in medical ethics should be involved face to face with sick people, and should be held liable for decisions made at their recommendation just like the doctors are that follow them.
I guess I should add Bobby Jindal to my list of possible nominees. I like Jindal but I don’t see him at the national level. I think that’s my failure in vision, though, because he has the ideas and the ability.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 4:44 pmChristie is a RINO and a rhino. (Plus: More than a little unhinged and rageaholic.) I will never, ever vote for him. Cruz ’16.
Kevin Stafford (1d1b9e) — 6/5/2013 @ 4:47 pmComment by mg (31009b) — 6/5/2013 @ 4:42 pm
Simon, have you ever thought about going rouge?
umm, not sure why Simon would want to go to rouge http://www.rouge98.com
maybe rogue?
(It looked funny to me, took me a while to figure out why.)
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 6/5/2013 @ 4:48 pmI empathize with that family and with the medical professionals in the case, MD. In fact, my family had a similar situation happen today, although fortunately it wasn’t the life or death decision these people face. It involves problems implementing a therapy that doesn’t fit into existing hospital regulations, so the therapy was repeatedly postponed and rescheduled. Everyone was trying to help but they were hamstrung by regulations and staffing issues. Ultimately I took my concerns to the hospital administrator and he responded quickly and professionally, but no one below him was able to cut through the red tape and fix the problem. Regulations are needed to promote efficient use of resources and fairness, but this happens more than people realize.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 4:51 pm2016, unite the nation from north to south down the heartland
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 6/5/2013 @ 4:52 pmCruz or Jindahl and Walker, start (sort of) and end of (or close) the Mississippi
I thought mg wanted Simon to be a little more red, MD.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 4:54 pmglad things worked out, DRJ.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 6/5/2013 @ 4:54 pmregulations are kind of like the Sabbath, were made to serve people, not meant to make people subservient
It’s good to live in a little town, MD.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 4:56 pmI can easily name five or six likely 2016 GOP candidates who’d be better than anyone who ran in 2008 or 2012, and by a wide margin. I am very certain that they’re already putting together the skeletons of their exploratory committees and fundraising organizations. Chris Christie isn’t on my list.
And he’s not even a likely veep because he can’t even lock up New Jersey’s electoral votes, no more than Mitt Romney was any kind of favorite son in Massachusetts.
Yes, every Senate seat is important, and yes Christie owed his party more consideration than he showed it in handling this particular vacancy.
But in terms of changing any outcomes outside of New Jersey, or any outcomes anywhere much after this calendar year, this just isn’t that huge a deal IMHO, folks. Of course your mileage may vary, but the passions being vented here — mostly frustrations, I think, and mostly understandable ones — are disproportionate to the significance of this particular event.
Beldar (e34770) — 6/5/2013 @ 5:16 pmAh to heck with that;
http://nicedeb.wordpress.com/2013/06/05/poor-baghdad-jim-mcdermott-wails-stop-it-at-megyn-kellys-tough-questioning-video/
narciso (3fec35) — 6/5/2013 @ 5:20 pmIn the end Christie is all about Christie. He’ll have some moments of clarity and do something for the greater good, but one can always count on him to circle back and once again be all about Christie.
That fat-assed, donut muncher did Conservatives and the Right a huge disservice when he put his ego on display at the Republican Convention during his 45 minute
stintstunt and then cozied up to that narcissistic farce 0bama after Sandy.Teh fat bast*rd can ESAD, he’s Fredo to me.
Colonel Haiku (0306d5) — 6/5/2013 @ 5:26 pm124. Well MD, as I said on yesterday’s thread, the extra money does indeed bother me. But once I thought through and weighed the practical and political benefits to his re-election, and especially the benefit for the down ticket repubs with CC heading the ballot–not Cory Booker heading the ballot–then I came to believe it was in fact the best course. For a lot of people. For the party. Not just him.
FWIW, for almost two years I watched the recall mayhem and hysteria ( Scott Walker, members of his party and the supreme court judge) across the state line in Wisconsin. The cost of the special election(s) in WI bothered me then, too. But it was what it was. Some powerful people on the Dem side thought it was worth it to have a special election or two or twenty on the taxpayers’ dime. They saw it as a political, strategic and offensive move to get the governorship back, to win more Dem seats and to garner media attention to prove a point. The much smaller and less dramatic special election in NJ due to Lautenberg’s death is likewise a tactical, political, strategic, and offensive move to maximize Republican officeholders amidst a bizarre situation. I don’t see that what CC has ordered for October is as egregious or more unreasonable than the mass recall elections. Do you? Politics is a rough business, kids.
For those who are trying to paint the NJ special election as an almost criminal act, please turn your face to Wisconsin, relive the videos of those tractor trailers and purple shirts, and listen to those drums again.
elissa (dba240) — 6/5/2013 @ 5:28 pmChris Christie’s flop at the GOP convention
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/80362.html
happyfeet (c60db2) — 6/5/2013 @ 5:30 pmWe had practically no expectation he would do the right thing, yet he still underperformed,
narciso (3fec35) — 6/5/2013 @ 5:34 pm127. Re “hostility”–DRJ, Sorry if you thought I meant hostility to me personally, I definitely did not. I meant hostility toward a situation and a political candidate and sitting governor of our party who is from a state where few if any of the hostile commenters reside. The comments are pretty obvious without my naming names or comment numbers and I’m not going to exacerbate the situation further by doing so. But the h8 just seems bizarre and way over the top to me, coming from some normally very reasonable people. That’s all I meant.
elissa (dba240) — 6/5/2013 @ 5:45 pmhe ruins everything
happyfeet (c60db2) — 6/5/2013 @ 5:46 pmYou forgot the right to be armed.
Milhouse (3d0df0) — 6/5/2013 @ 5:49 pmNot 18 months. Any appointment he makes would only last until the general election in November.
Milhouse (3d0df0) — 6/5/2013 @ 5:52 pmActually happyfeet, I think President Obama and his lapdog minions are why we can’t have nice things. YMMV.
elissa (dba240) — 6/5/2013 @ 5:53 pmwhen one is chosen to speak in front of the nation to help further one’s political party’s chosen candidates for national office, one – allegedly a stand-up guy – doesn’t squander the opportunity in an opportunistic, bloviating self-love fest.
He’s a hack and a fat one, at that.
Colonel Haiku (0306d5) — 6/5/2013 @ 5:54 pmThe only thing Christie should be “weighing” is his fat-assed future on the national political scene.
Colonel Haiku (0306d5) — 6/5/2013 @ 5:55 pmnk–thank you for the serenade. I think. (You know the boss sang that song at Tim Russert’s funeral?)
It is a great song.
elissa (dba240) — 6/5/2013 @ 6:08 pmlapdog minions are a whole meal for food stamp but for porky porky they just make for light snacking
happyfeet (c60db2) — 6/5/2013 @ 6:12 pmThanks, elissa. I’m glad you didn’t feel hostility toward you because I’m sure no one feels that way.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 6:16 pmdespising a scumbag who puts his personal interests ahead his putative party, and, by doing so, increases the assault against my rights & way of life isn’t “h8”: it’s enlightened self interest.
Tubby’s goals are inimical to my personal freedoms. he can go pound sand up his fourth point of contact until he passes a wine bottle back out.
redc1c4 (403dff) — 6/5/2013 @ 6:19 pmhe would be vastly less contemptible if he didn’t act like he was a for reals National Politician and bona fide Presidential Contender all the time instead of just being the highly local jersey trash oddity that he is
it’s just ridiculous to think we would ever stoop to putting older brother Chet from weird science in our white house, which admittedly has become something of a whore magnet
happyfeet (c60db2) — 6/5/2013 @ 6:33 pm(You know the boss sang that song at Tim Russert’s funeral?)
No, I didn’t. And thank you.
nk (875f57) — 6/5/2013 @ 6:39 pmElissa, I do feel passionately and frustrated with many ‘leaders’, and also inspired by others. I’m glad you have not interpreted this as hostility to those who disagree with me about any of these politicians, pro or con.
I recall Terry Mcauliffe saying the mere thought of a Republican in the White House killed his father. That degree of partisanship is a mental illness, and it leads to corruption (for example, Terry Mcauliffe’s) because politicians feel out what they can get away with.
Christie is abusing his office to mess with his own election in a way I believe any reasonable person should be able to concede is deeply wrong. Because partisanship is ever at a fever pitch, I think some are unable to see it. All they see is that without Christie, a democrat would have more power. We need to think about how that dynamic hurts our government.
Dustin (303dca) — 6/5/2013 @ 6:46 pmDurbin, really thought he was going to get the light touch, Wallace does,
narciso (3fec35) — 6/5/2013 @ 6:47 pmmy name is Terry McAuliffe you killed my father prepare to die
happyfeet (8ce051) — 6/5/2013 @ 7:13 pmnuttin’ from nuttin’, but has there ever been such a cult of personality around 1600 Pennsylvania Ave like there is around the current occupants? I watch new clips where these two speak and the resultant squeals, vapors, fawning, feinting and other mutant disciple behavior leaves me retching and gasping for air.
Colonel Haiku (12a909) — 6/5/2013 @ 7:16 pmkinda like when christie cleans between the folds
happyfeet (8ce051) — 6/5/2013 @ 7:17 pmGood Inigo Montoya impression,
narciso (3fec35) — 6/5/2013 @ 7:24 pmComment by elissa (dba240) — 6/5/2013 @ 5:28 pm
Thanks for responding elissa.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 6/5/2013 @ 7:25 pmWell, I guess the Wisconsin recall attempt debacle as well as the “Wisconsin 8” who held up state government by skipping out of the state are items that I would like to point out as examples of what Conservatives don’t do, rather than use it as an example of how partisan politics work.
But the point can be made to fight fire with fire, as well.
yeah, feets… sorta like that, but less cheese…
Colonel Haiku (12a909) — 6/5/2013 @ 7:41 pmTerry McCauliffe is enough of a pimp that he probably made money on his father’s death.
Colonel Haiku (12a909) — 6/5/2013 @ 7:43 pm“You forgot the right to be armed.”
Milhouse – Please elaborate.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/5/2013 @ 7:44 pmI used to be a big fan of term limits, but they didn’t do much for California, so I have soured on them.
Patterico (9c670f) — 6/5/2013 @ 7:50 pm“I meant hostility toward a situation and a political candidate and sitting governor of our party who is from a state where few if any of the hostile commenters reside.”
elissa – I just see more of the same old complaints about not being able to run a more conservative candidate for president. I was not aware there was a restriction on conservative candidates running for president. I thought the barrier to them advancing was securing enough votes.
Each Senate seat is important as Beldar points out. Both New Jersey Senate seats were held by Democrats, with Menendez most recently reelected in 2012. The most recent Republican to hold a U.S. Senate seat in New Jersey was Clifford Case, who served through 1978. It is complete BS to say Christie is betraying his party or thinking of himself first by not immediately naming a Republican successor rather than holding a special election. Do a little research.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/5/2013 @ 8:10 pmMenendez is the one what likes little girls
happyfeet (8ce051) — 6/5/2013 @ 8:17 pmOnly the ones what he can screw out of the entrance fee.
Icy (59bffd) — 6/5/2013 @ 8:31 pmdaleyrocks,
I think a conservative would have had the majority of votes in 2012, but Perry melted down like an idiot. He shouldn’t have joined the race late and unprepared, but he did.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 8:37 pmPalin’s flirty ditherings is why Perry waited I think
(ex-governor of Alaska)
happyfeet (8ce051) — 6/5/2013 @ 8:42 pmUnless Christie has a peculiar glandular problem, or undertaken a medical treatment similar to what comedienne Jerry Lewis has gone through in the past (taking steroids for pain, which caused his face to swell up to weirdly huge proportions), his ridiculous obesity does imply poor judgment and self-control on his part.
And, yes, there wonderfully sensible people out there who are very overweight, and, in turn, disasters like Obama who are lean and trim. But there still has to be something amiss with Christie when he allows himself to become so ridiculously fat. At least his susceptibility to very poor decisionmaking, not just in chowing down on too much food, but also in the way he’ll handle a special election.
Mark (cda46a) — 6/5/2013 @ 8:43 pmdaley– At this time to be viable nationally, candidates have to win enough primaries with their message and secure enough contributions to prove that they have the charisma, strength, stamina and broad appeal to attract both voters and active supporters within the party. I tried to get a discussion started earlier with respect to ideas people might have for possible changes to the existing primary system (dates, maps, process, fewer debates, different registration, fewer barriers to entry etc) that might feel more fair and might result in more conservatives on the ballots and in government. But the subject didn’t seem to interest people. (At least not the ones who were on line at the time.) Fat jokes ruled.
So the apparently intractable red state blue state divide and misunderstandings continued. And the thread dribbled along, mostly trashing a blue state Republican governor who is fighting to be re-elected and carry other Rs along. As Simon Jester pointed out, lots of “our” people were doing the Democrats’ dirty work for them today on this thread.
elissa (dba240) — 6/5/2013 @ 9:02 pmcandidates have to win enough open primaries
win enough open primaries with the help of the fascist food stampers whose support they’ve ardently whored after
whored after to the extent that they actively campaigned for a food stamp fascist in 2012 against the nominee of their own party
happyfeet (8ce051) — 6/5/2013 @ 9:08 pmIt’s not a very strong party if it can’t take criticism from within, and it’s not worth belonging to either.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 9:09 pmDRJ- I agree it is a shame that Perry was unprepared, in pain, or whatever contributed to his meltdown and withdrawal from the 2012 race. He came with a lot of promise and I think the Dems were initially scared of him. Unfortunately he really never did get a chance to test his message and personal appeal to voters on the national stump. I would have liked to have seen how he would have done in an Illinois or a California or a northeastern primary state at the top of his game. Even if he did not actually win the primary, the message testing and media interactions in those states would have been useful for him or others in the future, I think.
elissa (dba240) — 6/5/2013 @ 9:18 pmThe Democrats are a political party. They know what they want and are organized to achieve it.
The GOP, not so much.
Conservatives need to organize the GOP politically or find a new way to matter.
Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 6/5/2013 @ 9:18 pmDRJ do you have an opinion on whether Perry will run for president again in 2016?
elissa (dba240) — 6/5/2013 @ 9:29 pm“I think a conservative would have had the majority of votes in 2012, but Perry melted down like an idiot. He shouldn’t have joined the race late and unprepared, but he did.”
DRJ – Nobody can change the past, which is why I find it so frustrating when people dwell on it. I wish we had more conservatives running and winning office in Illinois, but I’m only one vote. There is no mysterious force or conspiracy stopping us from doing anything differently next time except a more conservative candidate finding enough support and votes to garner the nomination and win the election.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/5/2013 @ 10:01 pmHe’s running but I don’t think he will be a factor, elissa.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 10:09 pmWe learn from the past, daleyrocks.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/5/2013 @ 10:10 pmA saint that continually does the Devil’s work is no saint. If a republican/conservative has to run as a demoncrap and govern as a demoncrap, guess what? He’s a f@cking demoncrap. Chrissie can kiss my ass. No, I am not disappointed in what he did, I f@cking expected him to do one of two things. Either he was going to aid the enemy by appointing a demoncrap and kill any chance at the GOP nomination for 16, or he was going to punt.
Well guess what? He punted and killed his chance at the nomination anyways. And I say good, cause that means one less damn demoncrap that has to be dealt with as a RINO, oohh he’s the most electable. BULLSH!T
F@ck him and the horse he rode sidesaddle in on! I’m tired of all this frickin big tent talk too! If big tent means welcoming people that are going to weaken conservatism, we don’t need them. It only gets you weak nominees like, Romney-McCain-Dole-Ford! As Reagan said, you don’t change your views and beliefs to get them to join you, you get them to change and come to yours. This from a man who was considered unelectable by the party elites. Guess what? He won both elections by a landslide.
If it comes down to voting for a demoncrap in Demoncrap clothing, or a demoncrap in Republican clothing, guess which one I would vote for if I voted at all? The one that’s the real deal! I’d rather vote for devil in plain sight than the devil in disguise. That way, THEY get the blame when it all goes to sh!t.
No longer gonna call ’em RINO’s cause they are not even republican enuff to be a Republican In Name Only! Gonna call ’em Democrat In All But Label Only because they are devils in disguise.
peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 6/5/2013 @ 10:25 pmromney really was dreadful Mr. peed
and now we find just like Meghan’s coward daddy he doesn’t have the grace to
Just
Go
Away
sad little men
happyfeet (8ce051) — 6/5/2013 @ 10:42 pmBig Tent is just a euphemism for democrat lite. The democrat and republican parties have moved so far to the left in the last 25 years, that the real middle is to the right of where the GOP is today. Even JFK and Hubert Humphrey would be considered as right wingers.
I refused the last GOP candidate that was foist upon me by only voting the down candidates. I will no longer accept being told to bend over and grab my ankles without a reach around.
peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 6/5/2013 @ 10:46 pm“We learn from the past, daleyrocks.”
DRJ – If we don’t we are doomed to repeat it. That doesn’t mean we have to endlessly obsess over how things coulda, shoulda, mighta been different if only the %@#*&##!!&@!! hadn’t screwed things up.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/6/2013 @ 12:17 amSince there is a large sample of Senators who have died in office. Who are any of the most recent ones for whom a governor chose an interim replacement not the deceased senator’s own party? I’m sure somebody has done the research. I have not had the time to do it myself.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/6/2013 @ 12:21 amIf we can get past the fat jokes, the insulting comments, and so forth (which apparently a lot of people think is just dandy), maybe we can do something positive:
Come up with some people who folks think *would* be viable candidates for President. Who *can* have enough broad appeal to win a plurality in this divided nation.
But that’s much, much more difficult than insulting people one doesn’t like.
Look, I know that I am not in the majority on this. But when I read Left of center sites, I see the same language applied to folks on the right side of the aisle. I very seldom see such venom toward “their” folks. So the public gets a “double dose” of negativity toward the Right: from the Left and from the Right!
This doesn’t mean what everyone assumes I mean: to take whatever the RNC gives us. But it is foolishness indeed to NOT appreciate that we knock down our own candidates much more than the Left does…and that it costs us. There is a lot of evidence that many, many Republicans and Independents sat out the last election.
So who is a good choice, and why? It’s a much tougher question, and my guess is that few people will be interested in thinking about that.
Back to lurking.
Simon Jester (930de8) — 6/6/2013 @ 12:45 amI mean that Christie does not support it. He is at one with Bloomberg, pre-flipflop Giuliani, and pre-flipflop Romney.
Milhouse (3d0df0) — 6/6/2013 @ 1:05 ampeedoffamerican 2016
A President That Stands For Something.
redc1c4 (403dff) — 6/6/2013 @ 1:35 amI was very disappointed in Perry’s preparation level in 2012 and concede he probably shouldn’t have run at all (so that he didn’t suck oxygen out of the room already crowded with conservatives).
I personally would prefer he not run in 2016, but perhaps he will be much improved.
Right now I’m strongly hoping for Walker.
Obviously I have my reservations with Romney and didn’t think he could beat Obama. But Romney performed strongly as a candidate in many respects. Stronger than any of the other potential candidates would have, except perhaps Gingrich (who would have fared worse regardless due to his history). Romney has a lot in his background I disagree with, but he did his job as candidate and showed America a clear choice between a capable leader with good character and the opposite. America simply chose free stuff. There’s not a lot we can do about that, which is part of why I’ve lost my patience with crummy GOP politicians. What’s the point of a big tent if it can’t win without coopting the freebie message? I don’t see one. Better to just call them like we see them.
Dustin (82305d) — 6/6/2013 @ 2:57 amI think that’s a fair thing to be amused at. He doesn’t have to do that, and though I would have liked to see a moderate defensible Republican selection, I would not criticize him in any serious way for naming a moderate democrat.
I was only kidding about the Obama part (though that definitely bugs me because it was untimely and I associate it with grabbing for a few too many federal dollars afterwards). You’re absolutely right that Christie has done a good job championing some issues. A great job, even. At his best, he’s probably better than everyone else in the party, actually.
I can understand why some, even today, would be happy Christie is part of our team. However, I strongly feel his electioneering was an abuse of office. I also believe he knowingly helped Obama get reelected.
Dustin (82305d) — 6/6/2013 @ 3:22 amRed, that is exactly what I want to vote for. A candidate that genuinely stands for something, not one that just says what you want to hear. That is also what the people want also. They can tell whether a GOP candidate is genuine or not. If the GOP throws away its stand on gay marriage, abortion, family values, standing on one’s on two feet, and fiscal responsibility (they did under W and we lost big in 06 and 08) then we are throwing away what conservatism and true liberalism is all about.
Look at how Reagan did it. He spoke of how America could be great again and respected throughout the world. That it was OK to love and be proud of your country. That if the govt got out of the way, the people would rise up and make this country great again. He expressed his ideas and ideals in simple terms that people could understand and feel part of. Most of all he was honest about what he believed, and it showed. He spoke to the people, not at people, and definitely not as if he was above them. He gave them a vision that America could once again be that “Shining City On A Hill”.
And look what happened. One of the longest sustained economic booms that this country has ever had. It lasted even thru the Clinton years and into W’s term in 06. That wasn’t Clinton’s economy, it was Reagan’s. The reforms that he was able to get through had longterm effect. By lowering the top tax rate to 28 percent, he unleashed an economic powerhouse that had never been seen before.
The only times it faltered were when republicans compromised (caved) and went along with the Dems. Ever notice dems talk about how they themselves should compromise with the GOP, whether they win or lose an election. NO, they say we just didn’t ‘splain it good enuff and then they double down and move even further left. People actually expect less of them, and hold them less accountable because in their hearts they know that dems stand for nothing. The people expect dems to lie to them, not so with the GOP.
I have heard pundit after liberal pundit give the GOP the following advice: You need to get rid of those teabaggers, your stand on abortion and gay marriage, and fiscal responsibility, who needs it. Vote more give away programs, become a big tent party, and maybe the GOP will win some elections.
Why in hell would the GOP listen to them? Does anyone think that they have our interests at heart? Why listen and believe what your enemies are telling you? Would we have listened to Hitler if he had told us we needed to bomb London because they were the real enemy?
The old canard that ‘republicans think liberals are mistaken, and liberals think that republicans are evil” is ass backwards. Liberals don’t think republicans are evil, they can’t. They don’t truly believe in evil, it’s just a word to them to be used against their enemies. They are the epitome of evil. Look at their record!
They support the criminals rights over the victims’. Execution of convicted murderers is cruel, but killing unborn babies in the womb, Hey, that’s a okay with them. They don’t believe that certain classes of people should have to work, that we owe them a living. They support every type of perversion that comes along. Just read some of the comments in defense of that 18 year old that abused the 14 year old. They couldn’t even name an age that they would agree was to young to give consent. They label anybody that stands up for what they believe, as homophobes, bigots, or making war on women.
They dragged W down because their accusations of “Bush lied, people died” was not met head on and challenged by him. He should have got on the bully pulpit and challenged each and everyone of them with their votes for the AUMF.
What does our side do when a congressman has the fortitude to directly challenge Obama and say, “You lie!”. They censure him. What did the dems do when their own stood up and gave speeches in congress about Bush lying? I remember Shrillary screeching that “Dissent was the highest form of Patriotism”. They applauded their own for accusing a sitting President of lying.
What does our side say when members of this admenstruation refuse or give false testimony? They use these polite little euphemisms like mistaken or misled, to describe it instead of flat out stating, “That’s a damn LIE”! Congress should be hanging these scandals around Obama’s neck, just like they tried to do with GW and Abu Ghraib. If Obama was a republican, the dems would be shouting impeach at the top of their lungs on every TV and radio station, every newspaper, and every magazine. Anybody that says Obama has nothing to do with it, or there’s no evidence against him, is a damn lying partisan hack.
When they were going after Nixon, they used every trick in the book. They didn’t care if he had ordered any of it done! No! Shrillary was screeching at that time, “How much does the President know, and when did he know it?” Now she goes before congress when the onus is on her and their guy, and does she ask how much does he know and when did he know it? Hell NO! She screeches out like the lying old bat that she is, “At this time, what does it matter?”
We fight with one arm tied behind us and follow the ‘Queensbury Rules” while they kick our nuts into our throats, bludgeon us with a mace, and run over us with a Mack truck. We are following the rules that they laid down for us and play nice, while they use every dirty trick in the book. What happens? We lose.
peedoffamerican (a84075) — 6/6/2013 @ 4:12 amSince there is a large sample of Senators who have died in office. Who are any of the most recent ones for whom a governor chose an interim replacement not the deceased senator’s own party? I’m sure somebody has done the research. I have not had the time to do it myself.
Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/6/2013 @ 12:21 am
Every time I remember, Dem governors always replace a GOP Senator with a DEM, and their party applauds. When a GOP governor is tasked with replacing a Dem Senator, all Dems and dems screech that the Governor needs to replace him with a Dem because that’s what the people voted for. Their favorite motto is, “Do as I say, not do as I do.” It’s sorta like calling the flip of a coin. “Heads I win, tails you lose!”
peedoffamerican (04dfe5) — 6/6/2013 @ 4:21 amAnybody know what the only two rules in the Dems rulebook that they play by?
1. The only rule is that Dems have no rules.
2. Any questions that you may have about the rules, see Rule number one!
peedoffamerican (127915) — 6/6/2013 @ 4:31 amI can’t think of one off-hand, but I can think of one example where a GOP Senator was replaced by a Democratic substitute by a Democratic Governor: When John Heinz died in a plane crash, Pennsylvania Governor Bob Casey replaced him with Harris Wofford, who served about 6 months until the November election. The GOP ran a popular former Governor, Dick Thornburgh, to take over the formerly GOP seat. Despite Thornburgh’s significant lead over Wofford in the polls, Wofford ultimately won the election.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/6/2013 @ 4:57 amPaul Wellstone was replaced by Dean Barkley from Jesse Ventura’s Independence Party. I’m not sure that anything done by Jesse Ventura should be cited for any useful purpose, though.
nk (875f57) — 6/6/2013 @ 5:13 amSince there is a large sample of Senators who have died in office. Who are any of the most recent ones for whom a governor chose an interim replacement not the deceased senator’s own party? I’m sure somebody has done the research. I have not had the time to do it myself.
Or, to the contrary, when was the last time a Governor shirked his duties and didnt pick anyone, or when was the last time a Gov picked someone not of their own party?
JD (b63a52) — 6/6/2013 @ 6:05 amMany are called to the presidency; few are chosen.
Len (a03f77) — 6/6/2013 @ 6:14 amChristie for Caesar 2016, Because That’s His Weight Too. From Mel Brooks’ History of the World, only a minute long.
nk (875f57) — 6/6/2013 @ 6:25 am“Or, to the contrary, when was the last time a Governor shirked his duties and didnt pick anyone, or when was the last time a Gov picked someone not of their own party?”
JD – I think you will find the answer to your questions in researching mine and the timing of special elections after the death of a Senator.
There have been periods of time when Senators have been incapacitated and unable to perform their duties for extended periods of time and governors from an opposing party have not demanded the right to name interim replacements. Mark Kirk is the most recent example, which lasted a year.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/6/2013 @ 8:23 am“Every time I remember, Dem governors always replace a GOP Senator with a DEM, and their party applauds. When a GOP governor is tasked with replacing a Dem Senator, all Dems and dems screech that the Governor needs to replace him with a Dem because that’s what the people voted for.”
poa – Any examples? Here’s a list of Senators who died while in office:
http://politicalgraveyard.com/offices/pdio5.html
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/6/2013 @ 8:25 am“I mean that Christie does not support it. He is at one with Bloomberg, pre-flipflop Giuliani, and pre-flipflop Romney.”
Milhouse – Complete horse doody. You know nothing of Christie’s position on gun control if can you spew out an uninformed statement like that. While New Jersey already, like many Northeastern states, already has among the strictest gun laws in the country, the reforms Christie proposed in April were targeted at identifying mental health issues rather than taking away guns or restricting the ability of law abiding citizens to purchase guns.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/6/2013 @ 8:33 am“I think that’s a fair thing to be amused at.”
Dustin – You must amuse yourself since you once argued nobody who did not live in a border state was qualified to talk about immigration, just sayin’.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/6/2013 @ 8:35 amIncapicatated and dead are not the same. Kirk recovered, and is serving his term. You answered a question I didn’t ask. If Kirk had died, do you think the Dem Gov would have considered appointing a Republican?
JD (b63a52) — 6/6/2013 @ 8:35 am“Incapicatated and dead are not the same.”
JD – Thank you.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/6/2013 @ 8:51 amDRJ – The death of Republican Senator Heinz is a perfect example. The Democrat interim replacement was named by the Democrat governor a month after the Senator’s death with a special election scheduled five months later.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/6/2013 @ 8:53 amI think DRJ’s point was that the Dem Gov never considered appointing a R to the seat.
JD (b63a52) — 6/6/2013 @ 8:59 amain’t no coward like a jersey trash coward with an election pending
except for meghan’s coward daddy
and a few others
but those are the exceptions what prove the rule
happyfeet (8ce051) — 6/6/2013 @ 9:02 amThat’s because they can’t. There is no such thing as an interim senator.
Milhouse (3d0df0) — 6/6/2013 @ 9:43 amWhat has a ban on the Barrett .50-caliber rifle, and any weapon “substantially identical”, got to do with mental health issues? Or increasing the ID burden on purchasers?
What’s more, this goes back much further than April. This is from before he was elected. And this is from his own campaign. “Chris Christie supports the assault weapons ban and all current gun laws. He opposes attempts to permit conceal and carry laws in New Jersey.”
Milhouse (3d0df0) — 6/6/2013 @ 10:12 amIf I said that, I was wrong.
Dustin (303dca) — 6/6/2013 @ 11:09 amThen again, I seem to recall several of my arguments being misstated in an extreme form in order to make it possible to rebut without really addressing what I said. It seemed like my attempts to explain that were usually ignored, so I don’t think you are qualified to restate my views without a quote. Anyway, I disagree that I ever contended that if you don’t live in a border state you are qualified to discuss the entire topic of immigration. If I did convey that, I was wrong.
Actually, how in the world does that relate to what I said was fair to be amused at in this thread? Except that it’s amusing to be random.
Dustin (303dca) — 6/6/2013 @ 11:27 am“There is no such thing as an interim senator.”
Milhouse – What vacancy are people upset with Christie for not filling?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/6/2013 @ 11:31 amSorry to triple post, but do we really see Christie as a loyal Republican? Isn’t that why it’s so amusing that people would expect him to boost the national party’s Senate numbers when he has the chance, the way loyal democrat governors can be relied on? That’s how I took it when daleyrocks explained that the notion he’s betraying ‘us’ if he doesn’t help the party is amusing. That’s a fair point.
And don’t get me wrong: my noting Christie’s lack of partisan loyalty is not an insult. But it’s certainly time for conservatives to match the RINOs out there on this. They do not like us very much, and are not team players. We are constantly ordered to be team players because if we don’t, we will never have a big tent. But ‘Be a team player and stop expecting the RINO to be a team player’ is a little silly.
RINOs decisions not to be loyal to the party when it’s politically difficult is supposed to be accepted. That’s what a RINO is. The frustration for me doesn’t come when they behave as I believe they have always presented themselves (Christie does not present himself as a loyal partisan, of course!). On the other hand, why should those who seek a stronger GOP support Christie? They don’t have much reason to.
Anyway, if clarification is needed, I agree it is silly to demand or expect loyalty from someone who has never offered any. It would be no more a betrayal if Christie ran as a democrat in a future election, which is certainly not unlikely. My criticism of Christie is for the corruption. That’s all.
Dustin (303dca) — 6/6/2013 @ 11:48 amProlly best for all if we don’t set off down that “RINO” path again Dustin. Just sayin’. 🙂
elissa (e32d90) — 6/6/2013 @ 11:53 amdo we really see Christie as a loyal Republican?
no we do not
this is why the post is titled “Christie Once Again Screws GOP” cause of he has done so much for to harm the Republican Party and worked so hard for to empower the fascist party
plus he’s fat and disgusting
happyfeet (c60db2) — 6/6/2013 @ 11:59 amAt least he appointed an “R” for the vacancy.
JD (20406c) — 6/6/2013 @ 12:00 pmWell, looks like Christie surprised us and appointed a Republican to serve until the special election. I had bee under the impression that he was going to leave the seat open.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/06/06/nj-attorney-general-named-to-fill-us-senate-seat/
JVW (23867e) — 6/6/2013 @ 12:01 pmdaleyrocks,
Help me understand what you think the Heinz case is a perfect example of — that if the law provides the Governor should appoint an interim Senator when the current Senator dies in office, then the Governor should actually appoint someone of his or her choice?
I think that’s what Bob Casey did, and it seems like a “perfect example” of what Chris Christie should have done. Who knows? Maybe Christie’s appointee would have won the election (against long odds), just as Wofford did.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/6/2013 @ 12:05 pmAnd here is MY “RINO” interrogating Holder today.
http://hotair.com/archives/2013/06/06/mark-kirk-to-holder-tell-the-truth-has-the-doj-been-harvesting-congresss-phone-records-too/
elissa (e32d90) — 6/6/2013 @ 12:05 pmElissa, I forgot that the term irritates you.
It is a pejorative, so you’re not unjustified. I just find it a convenient way to note Republicans who are not conservative, but the implication in that term is that Republicans as conservative.
As Daleyrocks as noted, Romney was the nominee in 2012. The party chose to go in that direction. Obviously it’s not reasonable then to say that folks like that are “RINOs”. If anything, it’s conservatives who aren’t the authentic Republicans at this point.
But anyway, my goal was not to insult progressive republicans (or please let me know whatever term does not offend but conveys these people… this too is a progressive concept, but hey, sign of the times).
My point is that those people oppose my views. Christie doesn’t hide it (one of my gripes with Romney is that I felt he did hide his views as best he could). These people do not support my view of freedom, for example my freedom to not buy an insurance product, or my second amendment rights. Romney wrote an op ed urging a national version of Romneycare, and banned and taxed guns, something I see as an inalienable right. Christie is not too far from Romney on these matters. He is not loyal to me, and Christie would refreshingly say so to my face. Good for him!
But conservatives largely differ with his politics. Why does it help them to support them? That makes no political sense, as the Rubios and Romneys and Mccains build unstoppable coalitions with democrats to push their shared policies. That’s not what I want.
The ultimate problem isn’t Christie or Romney or any other person I’d ordinarily call a RINO. The problem is that the country has shifted so far from my views. The more ‘conservative’ option in the 2012 election was not! But that’s a consequence of elections. Fair and square.
My criticism of Christie is his corruption in this matter. He is no steward to his state if he can spend millions to have one election just a couple of weeks ahead of another, in a way that is cynically calculated to help his own reelection.
Dustin (303dca) — 6/6/2013 @ 12:07 pm“Actually, how in the world does that relate to what I said was fair to be amused at in this thread? Except that it’s amusing to be random.”
Dustin – Very directly. I was arguing that Christie’s first responsibility was to the people of his state. He has not declared for any national office yet people across the country are treating his actions as if he is accountable to them. Why?
You said you amused by that, but the three amigos of Perry Patriots here, you, EPWJ, and redc14 (I apologize if I wrongly threw red into the mix) should STFU about presidential candidate Perry’s immigration policy if we did not live in a border state, even though immigration policy impacts more than just border states. I call your amusement hypocritical.
So let’s unpack the Christie kerfuffle. Christie had decided not to name an interim successor to Lautenberg prior to the results of a special election to be held in just over four months. Some people are frothing at the mouth because they consider that a betrayal of the Republican Party. Have they given reasons or looked at precedents? For the most part no, other than saying Christie is RINO, too fat, or out for himself. I’m a big fan of deep analysis like that.
Could Christie have appointed a Republican interim successor to Lautenberg until November 2014? Who knows. New Jersey law seems to suggest he could do that. Conditions on the ground also seem to suggest that a segment of the population feel the inevitability of Cory Booker becoming the next U.S. Senator from New Jersey.
What is the practical impact of Christie not naming a replacement and calling for an election this October? Not filling the vacancy is as good as a no vote on cloture for the Democrats. With their majority, losing a single vote does not matter on bills requiring a simple majority.
Is scheduling the special election in October an advantage or disadvantage to Republicans? I view it as an advantage looking at all the Wisconsin recall activity. It forces the Democrats to get their low information, apathetic voter base out to the polls twice in the space of one month. The multiple recall votes in Wisconsin showed this was not the easiest task.
So as I see it we’ve got the shallow – Christie is a fat, selfish, RINO who has somehow betrayed the party crowd versus…………….
Bueller
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/6/2013 @ 12:09 pmBy the way, JVW’s link indicates Christie appointed a caretaker Senator along the lines suggested by Patterico’s guest poster, Eric Turkwitz. That’s not the same thing as actually appointing someone to serve as Senator, as Bob Casey did in Pennsylvania. Christie’s appointee has already said he will not run in the election. Wofford made no such promise and, in fact, did run.
Christie acts like being a Republican is distasteful, so he stays as far away from acting partisan as possible. I’m sure New Jersey voters get that message loud and clear.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/6/2013 @ 12:10 pmdaleyrocks,
Christie isn’t accountable to me or anyone outside New Jersey, but he is accountable to his Party.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/6/2013 @ 12:12 pmMy apologies for the typos. If they’ve made anything I’ve said difficult to understand, please point it out and I’ll clarify.
I do enjoy this topic (partisanship and its lack of relevance to conservatives), but I hope it’s not getting anyone bent out of shape. That’s probably the major controversy I come here to discuss, and I enjoy that there are people willing to take that issue up from the difficult position of moderate republican encouraging conservatives to support the GOP.
Dustin (303dca) — 6/6/2013 @ 12:12 pmAnd now you support spending taxpayer money for partisan advantage, daleyrocks?
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/6/2013 @ 12:12 pmdaleyrocks #203:
Are you sure about that?
He also called for limiting kids’ access to violent video games.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/6/2013 @ 12:19 pmBut anyway, my goal was not to insult progressive republicans (or please let me know whatever term does not offend but conveys these people…
Statist Team R’s
JD (20406c) — 6/6/2013 @ 12:19 pmSome people are frothing at the mouth because they consider that a betrayal of the Republican Party. Have they given reasons or looked at precedents? For the most part no,
There is no precedent for him NOT having the authority to choose someone to fill that vacancy. And no precedent to suggest he should fill it with his opposition’s party.
JD (20406c) — 6/6/2013 @ 12:24 pmGood stuff, Daley.
I think you really touched on a strategic aspect that cuts through all of the hysterical “he eats jelly donuts !” insults being thrown about—and that is that the special election will be forcing the Dems to get their low-information voters out to the polls twice over the span of several weeks.
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 6/6/2013 @ 12:27 pmI think the worst thing about what Christie has done is that by calling for two elections separated by only a couple of weeks, he is undermining his image as a fiscally-responsible governor. The same thing happened in Schwarzenegger’s second year, and he never was able to make a cogent argument for spending restraint after that.
JVW (23867e) — 6/6/2013 @ 12:34 pmUm, yeah. That’s what I pointed out way upthread and in a previous thread. Governor Christie is abusing his office and spending millions of tax payer dollars in a broke state in order to play out this political strategy.
He isn’t doing it as a ruthless partisan (not that I would accept that excuse). He is doing it as a selfish politician. This is morally wrong. Obviously. He should use his office to benefit his state, not harm his state and benefit himself. I don’t know how much more basic I can express this very simple concept. If Obama did this in 2012, forcing a nationwide immigration referendum a week before his own reelection (and let’s pretend his polls showed this would reduce turnout for conservatives in the later election), many here would note that was corruption.
Daleyrocks is one of the more intelligent commenters here and is quite right that this strategy does make democrat GOTV efforts much more costly and difficult. I differ with him a bit on how this helps the GOP itself, but I’m not sure. It really depends on what you think the GOP is.
Dustin (303dca) — 6/6/2013 @ 12:36 pmI can’t go through another day of rehashing this. My irritation can simply be boiled down to the notion some people appear to have (and stand with) that a Republican office holder who reflects and serves his constituents well and ably and loyally in one state, can’t and doesn’t have different issues and challenges and techniques to succeed than if he lived in, and reflected, and served, the constituents of another state– which quite obviously would have its own different issues and challenges.
The national Republican “party” is not static. It is at any given time the compendium of all the state parties and personalities and elected executives and law-makers that make it up. People who somehow think they are smart enough and have the right to assess and designate for everyone else who the “real Republican” is, worry me greatly as a voter of this party.
Over and out.
elissa (e32d90) — 6/6/2013 @ 12:40 pmWhat’s ironic is that Christie is using his powers as Governor in ways that make his re-election more likely. That proves he knows the power of incumbency, and it’s real. But at the same time he is denying the GOP any benefit of incumbency (even for just a few months) that might help a Republican win next year.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/6/2013 @ 12:46 pmSorry, no dice. Christie is wasting his constituents money in order to shift his own election chances. Those low info voters the dems would have to turn out twice… they are Christie’s constituents and they are not served well at all by this.
I know. But I enjoy discussing it here. My expressing my two cents is not intended to upset those more supportive of progressive republicans.
I don’t see a single commenter here doing that. For example, this is the exact opposite of what I said. I think the concept of the Republican party is very much in question. If the Republican party is not conservative, and progressive republicans like Rubio or Christie will build unstoppable coalitions with democrats that will make conservative reforms impossible, and Romney of all people was the 2012 GOP nominee, what is the ‘real republican’? I think it can be argues that the conservatives are the ones on the outside looking in. The suckers, too.
Dustin (303dca) — 6/6/2013 @ 12:49 pmI’m not pointing out “real” Republicans, elissa. I’m pointing out how Christie’s actions hurt the Republican Party. It’s no different than when people pointed out how Perry and George W. Bush hurt the GOP — which they both did — and I think it’s ultimately beneficial. I realize others disagree but that’s beneficial, too.
We only know if we have a big tent if we disagree and can still support someone when the time comes. It’s not really a big tent if we all have to agree all the time.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/6/2013 @ 12:49 pmI agree with Dustin. It’s possible red state conservatives are on the outside now. (Maybe it’s good for us to feel like that, so we can identify with blue state conservatives when they were in the minority.) However, I think the GOP’s base is still the red states, and it will have to please them in 2016 because of the failure in the past 2 Presidential elections.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/6/2013 @ 12:53 pm“He is doing it as a selfish politician. This is morally wrong. Obviously. He should use his office to benefit his state, not harm his state and benefit himself.”
Dustin – Christie is reportedly up by 30 points in the gubenatorial election so unless he’s caught in bed with a young boy or dead woman he should win. The thing I am pointing out is scheduling the special election in October enough of a chance to give a Republican a chance at winning or is it a lost cause. I’m not as convinced it’s as selfish a move as others.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/6/2013 @ 12:54 pmThis reminds me of that bozo in Virginia who kept Romney’s opponents off the ballot, was called out by the court for his unconstitutional method of doing so, and lo turned out to be on the Romney campaign.
That’s the thing about Conservative values. They probably seem to make political success seem less likely. All these ethics and principles weighing down your short term strategies! But having character is a wise long term strategy.
Christie will pay a heavy price for this in the long run, since he no longer has much credibility as a fiscally responsible leader. Every time Arlen Spector flipped around on something, he probably thought he was being clever because of the consequences at his fingertips, but he was oblivious to what was on the horizon.
Dustin (303dca) — 6/6/2013 @ 12:54 pm“There is no precedent for him NOT having the authority to choose someone to fill that vacancy.”
JD – Please point out who claimed Christie did not have the authority to fill the vacancy on an interim basis.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/6/2013 @ 12:58 pmThank you for clarifying. I misunderstood. Still, rearranging the electorate because multiple expensive elections will disadvantage the opposing party is not right. That is not what leaders should use the powers of their office to do. If Christie is a sure winner regardless, that definitely does prove one aspect of my condemnation is unjustified, and I don’t want to play games with that concession, but I do not think that kind of ruthless politicking is OK even if you do it for your friends and not yourself.
It’s just not acceptable to me.
Dustin (303dca) — 6/6/2013 @ 12:59 pmAnd yeah, Christie was going to win the race regardless. There’s no if about it. I had to read up on the polls to learn that, and I should have known that.
Still not OK, even if it actually is partisan minded for the NJ Republican party… a party I am sure I am not very similar to in goals.
Dustin (303dca) — 6/6/2013 @ 1:02 pmI am deeply appreciative of all the commenters, including myself, who assume they know more about New Jersey politics now and next year, how decisions made there today will impact the future Senate landscape, than politicans living in New Jersey or who have worked in New Jersey.
Out
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/6/2013 @ 1:03 pmRiiiight. The phrases RINO and “progressive republican” are not attempts to designate who “real” Republicans are and aren’t.
elissa (e32d90) — 6/6/2013 @ 1:04 pmYeah, Dustin, you keep playing the “those who support more moderate Republicans” card, as if to suggest that those of us who support Christie on this particular issue are of the Olympia Snowe/Susan Collins wing of the party.
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 6/6/2013 @ 1:14 pmi had a grilled cheese and soup for lunch and i ate the whole thing which I can do because I have my original stomach what god gave me not some unnatural devil stomach
happyfeet (c60db2) — 6/6/2013 @ 1:16 pmelissa,
I don’t think I’ve said that. I don’t really want to re-read all the comments to make sure, but I will if you think I’ve said that.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/6/2013 @ 1:17 pmProgressive Republican is an effort to be accurate. I don’t know how to convey these people in a way that doesn’t offend you, but I invite you to give me some examples. I’m operating on almost no sleep (for some reason I can’t sleep!) and can’t work out a good word for this.
RINO is a pejorative, but it was offered with a smile at least! It’s fun to knock the political opponents to conservatives like me, and that’s what I think a lot of Republicans are. I think their impact is to make conservative reform impossible and remove the concept of an actually conservative political party from the national ballot in many elections (for example, the 2012 general election for president). I do honestly wish these guys would just run as democrats. I think they would make better democrats than most democrats, and would give conservatives a chance to have a political party instead of this confused mess the GOP is.
RINOs are expedient. They chose parties cynically, often flipping around as they need to for the next election. They then race to the center, where the most votes are in the short term. It’s a cynical game, and it seems to me like it’s a major part of what’s broken these days.
I honestly don’t know what a ‘real republican’ is. I wouldn’t call myself a Republican anymore, after more than ten years of loyal volunteerism and financial support. I used to go to a lot of Tea Party rallies and will go to more, and at least here in Texas, I have heard this same view mentioned by a lot of former republicans like myself.
Anyway, I don’t want to offend anyone, so help me with a term that explains what I’m saying that doesn’t cause you to take offense. But I intend to continue expressing this point as best I can, in (vain) hope that it communicates that some appeals for a big tent push out the people who want a meaningful conservative political party. I hope that this point and the fact that the moochers aren’t going to vote for democrat-lite anyway will persuade the more ruthless partisans to pick a strategy that is both more successful and more useful to my own politics.
Dustin (303dca) — 6/6/2013 @ 1:19 pmYes.
Dustin (303dca) — 6/6/2013 @ 1:21 pmdaleyrocks,
I’m sorry you feel you have to be sarcastic to make your point but I have opinions that I wanted to share. From the tenor of the recent comments, I don’t think my opinions are welcomed — except maybe by other Texans. I think it’s interesting how our opinions seem to vary depending on what region we’re from. I also think maybe it’s time to look for a Texas blog.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/6/2013 @ 1:21 pmNot you, DRJ. But if you’re curious you don’t really have to go very far up the thread to know what I refer to.
elissa (e32d90) — 6/6/2013 @ 1:21 pmDustin,
I believe that you probably don’t intend to insult people with your labels, but you’re still missing the point.
The point is that agreeing with Christie on this particular issue does not make us “moderate” or “progressive” Republicans.
And it is probably not a good ‘big tent’ strategy to suggest that disagreement on an issue such as this is somehow a line in the sand between real conservatives VS those other people who call themselves Republicans.
Guy Benson of Townhall.com is a very solid movement conservative (he’s originally from NJ, too) and he has written a column supporting Christie’s decision.
And I bet when it comes to 2016, he’ll publicly get behind a Ted Cruz or Bobby Jindal rather than Christie.
Again, supporting Christie on this issue does not mean one is a “moderate,” nor does it mean one wants Christie to become the nominee in 2016.
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 6/6/2013 @ 1:31 pmDRJ, I’m sure the sarcasm and negative reactions were largely reactions to my opinions, not yours. We share a lot of common ground, but you are more a more able writer than I am, so people have a better reaction.
I’m sure that every single commenter here that is worth taking seriously has a high opinion of you.
But if you do take a hiatus, I want you to know that your health is in my prayers. I apologize if this violates your privacy to say.
Dustin (303dca) — 6/6/2013 @ 1:33 pmI’ve been in remission since May 1, 2013, Dustin, and thanks for asking.
Are there any popular conservative blogs based in Texas? I first came here because of Patterico’s UT Law connection, but I obviously like talking about Texas more than most here. It’s probably better to get my Texas fix somewhere else.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/6/2013 @ 1:38 pmDRJ,
You shouldn’t leave this blog.
I’m sure everyone values your comments here.
This is merely an intramural disagreement about an issue that the elected officials in NJ are going to handle, regardless of what we all believe should happen.
Obama is the Gangster President, and we all need to just buck up and bring in as many people as possible into our tent for the 2016 election.
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 6/6/2013 @ 1:38 pmPolitics may not be but life is good, Dustin. In fact, it’s blessed.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/6/2013 @ 1:39 pmDRJ – I’m not a Texan, but I always welcome your comments. I greatly admire the way you comport yourself with grace and class, even in a contentious debate.
JVW (23867e) — 6/6/2013 @ 1:41 pmI’m not leaving, ES, just branching out so I won’t bug people with my conservative Texas rants. Talking the way I talk in Texas is, ironically enough, considered very moderate. Some people I know view me as the RINO, so I really do feel your pain.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/6/2013 @ 1:41 pmPlus I went to UT Law in Austin, so most people in my town assume I’m a raging liberal.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/6/2013 @ 1:44 pmI’m very happy and thankful to learn that, DRJ!
I wish I could offer some Texan blogs. The only Texan blog I read is Grits For Breakfast, but it’s not conservative. Redstate doesn’t really appeal to me, but once in a while it’s worth looking at.
Funny enough, for a time I was a student at UT Law too but decided pretty quickly that a legal career wasn’t a good fit for me.
Dustin (303dca) — 6/6/2013 @ 1:45 pmComment by JVW (23867e) — 6/6/2013 @ 12:01 pm
Well, looks like Christie surprised us and appointed a Republican to serve until the special election. I had been under the impression that he was going to leave the seat open.
Maybe that idea came from somewhere on ablog but it was totally wrong. What kind of news coverage were you getting?
It was always clear he was going to appoint someone to the seat temporarily.
The news cpverage is not clear about what in the law meant that the special general elction could not take place in November.
Not clear: Can the NJ Attorney General hold both jobs at the same time? If not,es he get his job back in October?
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/6/2013 @ 1:50 pmHmmmm,
Not having followed all of the interaction with a magnifying glass, but I would hesitate to think anyone of consequence on this blog does not value the comments of DRJ.
Painted Jaguar (eyes barely open): of course not, everyone values DRJ… and if they don’t… (glares and extends claws)
And sometimes some of us use sarcasm as thinking it is a good way to make a point, or to vent a little steam, or to unthinkingly let our anti-social tendencies come out to the forefront-
Painted Jaguar And he is not about to say who was doing which, when, and why, or why he thinks so.
FWIW, I like for people to try to just give the straightforward truth, which is really hard to do even when they do because the media twists things this way and that.
Christie probably never said he was the savior of the repub party and the Republic as well, that is something that various others did or tried to do
Painted Jaguar: So we really can’t blame him if he does not do something he didn’t say he would do when he doesn’t do it after all, now can we?
I would have voted for Guiliani even though many of his views are different because I thought I could trust what he said about the kind of SCOTI ( Painted Jaguar: plural of SCOTUS, as opposed to SCOTUSes) he would appoint and that he would not press a pro-choice agenda.
And one needs to consider when a person changes their mind (Painted Jaguar: Occasionally happens) as opposed to flip-flopping, as with romney and abortion
that is all
MD in Philly (with guest commentary by Painted Jaguar) (3d3f72) — 6/6/2013 @ 1:56 pmPainted Jaguar: yes, that is all we have to say about that
Dustin, I understand if you choose not to respond.
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 6/6/2013 @ 1:59 pmI’m just amused that anyone would suggest I might be part of the Olympia Snowe wing of the party.
🙂
==these people==
No Dustin, I’m sorry. I will not “help” you come up with a term for other people to “help you explain your point”. I do think you mean well but the way in which you go about expressing your version of conservatism by knocking and deriding other people’s idea and practice of conservatism, rather than trying to understand how it all fits together into the larger picture is not helpful. I guess you and some others think the big tent is a cop-out. I don’t. I think the point of a big tent is to make room–lots of room to embrace and incorporate and respect generally like minded people, including their warts and minor differences)– not to push anybody out.
Outside the tent, my adversaries and enemies are the real liberal fascists, progressives, Democrats, Marxists and socialists. Let’s use our energy against them.
elissa (e32d90) — 6/6/2013 @ 2:01 pmDaley – coupled with the “who knows”, it seems like the following, at the very least, suggests it could have been in question.
Could Christie have appointed a Republican interim successor to Lautenberg until November 2014? Who knows. New Jersey law seems to suggest he could do that.
JD (b63a52) — 6/6/2013 @ 2:02 pmMaybe that idea came from somewhere on ablog but it was totally wrong. What kind of news coverage were you getting?
It was probably my mistake. The initial report that Christie was calling for the special election in October led me to believe he was doing that in lieu of appointing someone to serve until the November 2014 general election.
JVW (23867e) — 6/6/2013 @ 2:03 pmelissa, good stuff #265.
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 6/6/2013 @ 2:06 pmSuit yourself, but I would like a convenient way to discuss Republicans who are opposed to me politically. I would prefer this be polite, and you’ve complained about this a few times, so I figured you had some guidance on offer. I think we agree there is no reason to pretend this is not an interesting and distinct aspect of the GOP.
True.
Of course Christie, Romney, Murkowski, whoever… they are not trying to push anyone out of the party. They need votes, after all.
I’m not like minded with those who will affiliate with the democrats to push sweeping agendas I totally disagree with, from Mccain’s free speech attacks to Rubio’s immigration proposal to Romney’s national Romneycare op ed. I do not embrace this, the only consequence of a big tent I’m aware of. We all should do our best to respect those we differ with, and I honestly do try. Any constructive advice that isn’t ‘stop arguing that opinion’ is welcome.
Remember, one thing I want to communicate is that a big tent is a euphemism for a diluted principles and purpose. Take that too far and suddenly the GOP nominee is a gun grabbing Obamacare inventor.
Dustin (303dca) — 6/6/2013 @ 2:10 pmelissa, good stuff #265
Hear hear!
JVW (23867e) — 6/6/2013 @ 2:11 pmI already responded. 🙂 But really, those who have no problem with Christie’s abuse of office are in the Nixon wing of the party.
Dustin (303dca) — 6/6/2013 @ 2:12 pmDRJ- I, too find the need to take a day or more mental health break from here occasionally. But I will personally be very sad and disappointed if you decide to take an extended participation hiatus from this blog. I’m going to issue you this challenge. If you just go to a Texas blog– among a friendly crowd where mostly everyone agrees about politics and northerners (that last part’s a joke), how would that any different than our president continually surrounding himself in a cocoon with only his friends, yes men and loyalists who agree with him? Isn’t that lack of intellectual vigor and honest pushback from outsiders a very big reason why Obama misreads the electorate and gets and falls for one-sided views and bad advice? Just sayin’
elissa (e32d90) — 6/6/2013 @ 2:20 pmI think if I were polled tonight about party affiliation, I would claim independent.
JD (b63a52) — 6/6/2013 @ 2:25 pmBTW, I don’t really recall where you fit on the political spectrum. To me the main conservative feather in his cap was his bold, outspoken insistence that New Jersey stop wasting money on needless projects. He’s badly damaged that feather with this expensive election stunt.
A case could be made for Christie based on his opposition to same sex marriage (that’s not a priority for me) and his veto of a min wage increase (well done!).
I disagree with Christie on immigration (he once argued there is no such thing as illegal immigration… that it’s not illegal), guns (long list of examples), and state funded and mandated health care. I think he’s a lot closer to the Snowe side of things than the Cruz side.
Democrats seem to agree with me that Christie is more worthy of their support than I am. I read somewhere that he got more donations from democrats than his democrat opponent did, including from Obama’s bundlers and Soros Fund Management folks. but maybe those guys changed their mind and are conservative now?
But feel free to disagree on that. Here I am criticizing his lack of ethics by abusing his office in a way that screws the democrat GOTV effort. That is not what the people trusted him with power for.
Dustin (303dca) — 6/6/2013 @ 2:28 pmDustin, no you actually hadn’t responded to my comments in #253.
I realize you’re very frustrated with some of us about this issue. If you really think that suggesting I’m a RINO !!!, or a Nixonian, or a disciple of Olympia Snowe, or a sycophant of Nelson Rockefeller will advance your argument, then go ahead and let me have your best slings and arrows.
But just hang in there, bud. We all need to band together to defeat whomever the Dems throw our way in 2016. The ‘big tent’ philosophy is not merely a Dr. Phil feel-good bumper sticker—it’s the reality of what it will take in order to win back the White House and save our country.
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 6/6/2013 @ 2:34 pmThat tent doesn’t feel so big to some people.
JD (b63a52) — 6/6/2013 @ 2:47 pmAh, I stand corrected. Yes, I missed that one.
Not at all! I’m enjoying the conversation with smart people I disagree with. It’s the politicians that frustrate me. I think it’s stupid to get upset at good faith discussion on internet forums (though I’ve definitely gotten there in the past, you’ll know it when you see it and this ain’t that).
I’m not trying to criticize you aside from my view that Christie’s choice is unethical and those who support it are misguided. I really like this Nixonian adjective. That one I do think is apt. There were suckers arguing the very progressive Nixon was conservative back then, you know.
That sounds a lot like a bumper sticker. Can you explain how a liberal republican is going to save our country with Romneycare, gun control, amnesty, and enormous deficits? The times the ‘Gang of eight’ or whoever many whichever time emerge, it’s not good for this country, and reform becomes impossible.
Like we did in 2012 when the beltway fought all the conservative candidates in order to save us from those crazy tea partiers so our best chance to beat Obama could take the nomination.
As I have argued many times, this is not a wise strategy. The moochers and mushes will favor a genuine democrat over a sham republican for executive positions, because authenticity is a good quality in a leader. Flip flopping and cynical political posturing are typical traits in moderate republicans because that is not a natural political position to have. It’s borne of expediency. It’s not the leadership these times call for.
I believe that a bolder leader… one perceived as more conservative, has a much better chance in a presidential election. The big tent is actually the small tent. You gotta have a leader arguing for people to get in the dang tent! RINOs have a very hard time doing that. I didn’t hear Christie doing this in the run up to the 2012 presidential election. Why? Because he can’t. He’s not conservative enough to do it without being rebuked and embarrassed. Romney couldn’t either. He can’t really hammer Obama beyond a vague leadership ability issue (though Romney did argue this well).
But it’s ultimately the people’s responsibility. As a whole, the country has continued to move left. Government dependency is a growing reality. It will take a truly amazing leader to turn that around, and I respectfully do not see how Christie is up to that task. He can blow millions just to twist the next election.
Dustin (303dca) — 6/6/2013 @ 2:53 pmI should admit I just don’t recall seeing this tent building from many of the RINOs. They talk about a big tent when they want those they disagree with the most to support them, but I rarely see RINOs cheerlead and champion for the GOP. Most of them act like they don’t actually have a partisan loyalty at all.
Can Christie’s supporters have it both ways? Can they argue RINOs are OK for not showing partisan loyalty [such as with this Senate pick] and argue for partisan loyalty to RINOs?
Is the singular purpose of a big tent meme to help get RINOs into power, for its own sake? At what point do the conservatives get anything, other than boogeymen warnings about democrats who are functionally similar to RINOs?
Dustin (303dca) — 6/6/2013 @ 2:58 pmFrom ‘a Child of the House’ to Longest-Serving Member New York Times front page June 6, 2013
His father was elected in 1933 – he succeeded him at the age of 29 when his father died.
So that’s a little more than 80 years on Capitol Hill.
lockquote>
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/6/2013 @ 3:09 pmTexans lacking intellectual vigor, elissa? Perish the thought!
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/6/2013 @ 3:23 pmI’m kidding, of course. Texas has produced several questionable communicators (George W. Bush), political players (Rick Perry), and leaders (LBJ). I’m sure our blogs will have many questionable intellects, too. But I know the debate will be heated — Dustin and I both love a spirited debate — and surely you know that we Texans love heat in just about everything.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/6/2013 @ 3:28 pmOr maybe you don’t know that about us. But I assure you that Texans like to disagree just to see what happens. We like to gig each other all the time.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/6/2013 @ 3:32 pmAd opposed to those eloquent statesmen, Howard Dean, John Kerry, and Al Gore, conman, knaves and scoundrels all.
narciso (3fec35) — 6/6/2013 @ 3:32 pmAlso, elissa, I agree that Senator Kirk did very well today.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/6/2013 @ 3:45 pmthe “big tent” is a weirdo social con jedi mind trick where they get to write all their lifeydoodle gay-hating dogma into the platform and everyone else can stfu
happyfeet (c60db2) — 6/6/2013 @ 5:02 pmDifferent thing entirely. Whomever he appoints will be a full senator until the special election. Not a temporary fill-in until the real senator comes back. There is no such thing.
Milhouse (3d0df0) — 6/6/2013 @ 5:09 pmOne recalls ‘Cheeto Charlie’ appointed his factotum, as a standin, who was slightly better then blanc mange, did Guera (sic) have an opinion on Obamacare,
narciso (3fec35) — 6/6/2013 @ 5:12 pmI think nobody here knows or realizes that Christie underwent (quietly, it came out later) weight loss surgery back in February.
It was said maybe that meant he was running for President. Gov. Christie said he didn’t do things like that for that kind of reason.
By May 7, he had already lost 40 pounds.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/08/nyregion/chris-christie-secretly-had-weight-loss-surgery.html
His staff and political advisers said they hadn’t known. he had the surgery a week after he munched on a doughnut in an appearance on the “Late Show With David Letterman.” and around the time he asrgued with a former White House doctor who expressed concerns about his weight potentially causing him to die in office, telling her to “shut up.”
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/7/2013 @ 11:16 amDRJ – I would be very sad if you elected to leave this blog. You are one of the reasons I comment here and your history of both posting and commenting help make it a unique community. I try and hopefully mostly succeed to treat your comments with respect and my sarcasm was not directed at you on this thread, since you were one of the few actually taking the time to think about the issues involved.
My frustration is with the Mark Levin conservatives, maybe Dustin can help me find a different description, who are all noise and no solutions, all attack but with no suggestions for change, people who say we need more conservative leaders everywhere and somehow believe it will happen by magic and that therefore we can denigrate and purge all the RINOs or progressive Republicans from our ranks. I submit there’s no evidence to support those claims but if people want to largely spend 30 years in the wilderness they are welcome to it.
When I see phrases like “special pleadings” made by Blue state Republicans I think it is offensive just as I think calling RINOs the same as Democrats offensive. There was a heated discussion hear a month or so ago about the Maine Senators with Steve57 trotting out the conservative rankings with him focusing mostly on one of the Senators. Because they were under 50% he claimed she voted with Democrats more than Republicans, which is blatantly wrong analysis. The rankings are based on a limited number of scored votes and fluctuate, especially for the Maine Senators, widely from year to year. The critical thing to focus on is whether they are voting with the party more often than the most moderate Democrat and there the answer for both was clearly yes, indicating they are better than a Democrat. People can still bloviate about replacing them, but absent a candidate or plan which nobody put forward, it remains just empty rhetoric like most of Mark Levin’s Monday Morning Quarterbacking.
Looking at the current New Jersey situation, Lautenberg’s death was announced on Monday. Out of courtesy, Christie did not announce his immediate plans, but on Wednesday he was suddenly betraying “THE PARTY“. Which party do people claim he is betraying, the national party or his state party?
State law apparently conflicts on when Christie needed to call a special election, with some saying he needed to do it this year as opposed to waiting until November 2014. Was it selfish of him to call the special election this year rather than next year or did he have any potentially valid reasons?
That’s where looking at precedents might have been of some help, which nobody except you seemed to be interested in doing. Although laws for replacing Senators are not uniform, the trend it seems to me has been to hold special elections soon rather than later after the death of a Senator. I called you Heinz example perfect because all I was looking for was examples of Governors appointing interim replacements from a party other than that of the deceased Senator. Ignoring Jesse Ventura, we’ve had one in 20 years and potentially longer.
Would it have been more selfish and partisan for Christie to delay the special election until November 2014? I think the answer to that question is clearly yes and apparently it also carried with it some litigation risk.
The next question is about scheduling the special election on a date different than the general election. That seems to have been done purely to benefit Christie’s party, not as a betrayal, and the hyperventilation over cost seems more like a Democrat talking point than a legitimate criticism from conservatives worried about party betrayal. With Cory Booker announcing his intent to run for the Senate seat, having that election occur on a different date than the general election dilutes both the turnout effect of having Booker on the general election ballot and minimizes the damage his presence does to Christie’s potential coattail effect on the election for the N.J. Senate where it is reported that Republicans have a chance to retake the majority this year. To me it seems like Christie is looking out for his party, just not in the hackish Chicago Way people wanted him to do on a National level. The concern over the cost of a special election is a red herring which I will gladly defuse by pointing to ridiculous spending boondoggles by supposedly fiscally conservative governors in other states.
Some commenters seem take the position that because I’m disagreeing with Patterico’s post and the criticism of Christie that makes me a Christie supporter. That is a dishonest form of argument they have confusedly used many times in the past in other situations. Disagreeing with something does not automatically make you a supporter of the individual that is the subject of the argument. Unfair criticism is unfair criticism and there has been a lot of that on this thread.
With respect to your comment on gun control in #228, yes I was aware that Christie was only banning the purchase of one weapon, not further restricting magazine sizes and a lot of the crap that Milhouse implied he was doing because he was just like Cuomo and Bloomberg. An application for a New Jersey Firearms Purchaser ID already requires the applicant to fill out a separate release for mental health records so I’m unclear what Christie’s bill changes. A NJ Senate bill wants the state to submit those records through the NICS system each time a weapon is purchased. A New Jersey Firearm Purchaser ID does not currently expire. It is good for as long as the person is qualified to own a firearm. Although I have not been able to find a sample to view, if the card doesn’t contain a picture I see no problem with people being required to prove who they are or the belt and suspenders if the card does contain a picture or other identifying information.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/7/2013 @ 11:39 amI can’t leave this great website, daleyrocks, and I didn’t plan to. However, I don’t want to alienate anyone here with my debating style because I like everyone so much. I don’t really mind alienating a bunch of Texans because they’re stuck with me.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/7/2013 @ 11:42 amThank you, daley. That was so much better than unhilarious fat jokes, weird terms like “lifeydoodles” that offend many people here who are valued, and “purity of essence” arguments.
People can believe what they like, but I enjoy reading thoughtful commentary rather than snark or attacks. Everyone does the latter from time to time (except for DRJ, Dana, and a few others). But this post was a breath of fresh air.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 6/7/2013 @ 11:44 amChristie can be a fat n happy guv til the jersey trash cows come home
but he’s a beached whale as far as presidential ambitions go
simple as that
nobody’s purging nobody
happyfeet (c60db2) — 6/7/2013 @ 12:03 pmSo where is Dana, HF?
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 6/7/2013 @ 1:03 pmDana is in the conference room maybe?
Or he might could’ve ducked out for happy hour somewheres.
I are not my Dana’s keeper you know.
happyfeet (4bf7c2) — 6/7/2013 @ 1:26 pmWhatevers. I find that Dana is very tolerant of other points of view, and never…not once…insults people who disagree. She is never snarky or faux-clever. I can’t say that. But I admire it, and look forward to her posts. Folks here would much rather see her posts than my own, with good reason.
Something to think about during lunch.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 6/7/2013 @ 1:29 pmoh that Dana
it’s really beautiful out here she might could just be enjoying the day
happyfeet (4bf7c2) — 6/7/2013 @ 1:33 pmfor lunch we are sampling different chelada products
I read somewheres that this is the summer of the “shandy”
like hell I say
it’s for sure going to be a chelada summer I think
happyfeet (4bf7c2) — 6/7/2013 @ 1:36 pmthe shandy is a bad drink and I don’t approve of it
Leviticus (b98400) — 6/7/2013 @ 1:38 pmthe chelada is beloved in New Mexico
Leviticus (b98400) — 6/7/2013 @ 1:38 pmespecially the Clamato, which is a little perturbing but what can you do?
Leviticus (b98400) — 6/7/2013 @ 1:40 pmThank you daleyrocks@289. I can tell that your post took a lot of time and effort and thought and research to compose so well. I appreciate that it hits on and summarizes key aspects of the various issues and controversies raised throughout this thread. You wrote in a moderated tone, displaying reasoning and conclusions that make a great deal of practical and logical sense. FWIW, (and as you probably could already guess), I am very much on the same page with your thinking on this.
elissa (44e088) — 6/7/2013 @ 2:14 pmIt’s a little irritating that i cannot find a news article that seems to describe exactly what Christie’s options were.
The New York Times wrote in an artivle I can’t find again, that he made up his mind before Senator Lautenberg died.
It’s not clear why he thought he might die. Was it just his age (89) and the fact he hadn’t traveled much back to Washington? that’s what the article mentioned. Or was he deteriorating badly?
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/7/2013 @ 2:37 pmNae Silver of elections after a Senate vacancy:
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/03/how-christie-can-maximize-the-g-o-p-s-chances-in-new-jersey/
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/7/2013 @ 2:40 pmMr. Levi I’m a fan of the clamato – I didn’t think I would be
is much lighter than bloody mary mix or v8 or tomato juice – you can’t really taste anything you would call clam flavor
I tried three kinds of the chelada and I will tell you of them that you might know the ways of the chelada
the budweiser & clamato chelada product is drinkable
the bud light and clamato chelada product is better – you get more of the clamato flavor – but it still doesn’t taste like real clamato
the best chelada was the modelo and clamato – we had to mix this ourselves – you get the fun celery salt highlights of real clamato and it’s just all around something you would serve to guests and what have you – we just added a little beer salt…
the clamato bottle suggests adding worcestershire but we did not want to do this
next Friday we will sample more chelada products
i believe next up is the Budweiser & Clamato Chelada Picante
happyfeet (c60db2) — 6/7/2013 @ 3:21 pmI shall endeavor to learn of this clamato that you speak of
Leviticus (2c236c) — 6/7/2013 @ 3:38 pmThis was Modelo Especial and clamato, I assume?
Leviticus (2c236c) — 6/7/2013 @ 3:39 pmyes exactly – it was by far the tastiest –
we didn’t want to add the worcestershire cause it takes the beverage too far down the bloody mary road
and we decided we’d rather enjoy it with spicy food than make it a spicy beverage itself
happyfeet (c60db2) — 6/7/2013 @ 3:58 pmYou have done a good job explaining how Christie’s choice in this matter benefits his political party by damaging the turnout of many New Jersey voters. I agree with you that this is clever.
I disagree with you on two points.
First, I do not believe we should evaluate all decisions by a governor on strict party loyalty grounds. You specifically say a criticism of wasting money is not “legitimate criticism” because it’s not party betrayal, but it’s a criticism rooted in ethics and fiscal conservatism, not political cleverness. However, I did note that I believe this is only politically clever in the short term and that ethical leadership is also smart long term politics, so perhaps it’s my fault you so badly misunderstand what my argument on this point was based on.
Second, I don’t think Christie’s only other option was an election in 18 months. You seem to concede this because you think it was clever to have to elections close together and damage turnout for those who don’t support the NJ GOP. In other words, there was already an election date coming up.
You have a great wit and I’m sorry it’s lost on a couple of other commenters. Even though you are insulting me, it was very amusing and I appreciate the clever reference to Mark Levin.
Anyway, I believe you can just call some of these people conservatives. And conservatives can call Rubio, Romney and Christie progressives. And the reason I like this clarity is that is shows that these factions are not on the same side.
I don’t agree with Christie’s support for Obama, for example. There’s a long list of issues I differ with him on, but I’ve already named them upthread. I’m more politically conservative, and he more progressive. The same applies to some of the commenters who support a ‘big tent’. They want a more progressive GOP because they are more progressive. They are more willing to compromise with democrats because they share more ground with them. Sure, the progressive republicans want conservatives to support a big tent (progressive) GOP. Why wouldn’t they? They want a more progressive America.
I see these people denigrate conservative republicans all the time, just as conservatives denigrate the progressive republicans like Romney and Christie and Rubio and many of their supporters. Conservatives believe that initiatives like Romneycare, Familycare, Obamacare are foolish (or conversely the progressives support these ideas). They believe that gun control and amnesty are the wrong direction to go in (or conversely the right direction). Some are upset that a big tent isn’t a big silent tent where we all just dumbly march for the GOP to win tons of power. I don’t care very much about that goal.
No disrespect intended, but we just aren’t on the same side. And as I’ve noted a few times, those like Rubio and Mccain who get into the Senate will then form ‘gang of eight’ type arrangements, aligning with democrats, and accomplish policies I wish had not been accomplished. Often I reflect that the conservative cause was actually harmed by the GOP’s progressive leaders, and simply stopping the reform instead of making a deal would have been a better solution. Long term, it would have led to a stronger GOP, too, because the brand would not be muddled and many activist supporters wouldn’t have given up on the party.
Criticizing bad ideas without offering an alternative can actually be acceptable to many conservatives. Sometimes the government doing nothing at all is a solution. That’s one of the many reasons Texas is doing better. To someone in Illinois, I can understand why you think conservatives are in the wilderness if they do not submit to a progressive GOP, but my perspective is quite different. We have plenty of legislators trying to pass legislation, but due to our very limiting session schedule, most of these ideas just don’t happen. There’s no solution passed at all, and it turns out that this keeps the government out of many issues. That is very good!
So many conservatives are often quite happy to point out that progressive initiatives are foolish, and not offer an alternative. I do not have an amnesty solution in mind to counter the progressive Rubio’s. I do not have a gun control solution to counter Christie’s or Romney’s. I do not have a government healthcare initiative in mind. I simply criticize the ideas I find foolish because in most cases I do not believe a government solution is necessary. Anyway, any hope of reform legislation is foolish if the national GOP isn’t much stronger than is realistic today. That’s just not on the table in the short term.
The country has shifted a great deal and favors redistribution and dependency on the government. It will take a cultural shift, with changes in media and education being the best (but unrealistic) solutions I can think of. Christie is a champion of this dependency and has lobbied for a great deal of federal money. That plus Christie’s unethical abuse of office corrode the party in two distinct ways.
Anyway, it’s not that I seek to purge the GOP of RINOs. But I certainly don’t support them and enjoy discussing why.
This big tent is a delusion. The conservative cause is not stronger when progressives win office as republicans. On any matter of controversy, the progressives will rally with their democrat brothers for their progressive solutions anyway. If the GOP really wants to promote the conservative cause, the path will be long and difficult as it attempts to build credibility in its brand. What does it mean to be a Republican? In and of itself, nothing. I don’t think this is even a problem for most of those favoring a big tent. They don’t want a defined GOP brand. But again, the root problem is cultural, and no amount of clever politicking will fix it. For me, fixing it means a country that is not dependent on government and abhors losing freedom. For a party loyalist, fixing it means a party that wins power via the same sorts of mistakes that the democrats propose. Why would a conservative care to support that?
The party had an opportunity in 2012 to choose what the party stood for. As you’ve noted many times, it choose Romney. It is what it is, and life goes on. It could have chosen an example of balancing budgets and keeping government out of the way of a bright economy, but instead it chose something muddled, pretty, and slick. I believe that got us farther away from conservative reform and we lost the election anyway. I could say we lost because muddled is the opposite of leadership, but mostly the reason we lost is that America wants dependency on government, and Obama offers that with more credibility. I want to blame the GOP and find great fault with the GOP, but the problem is cultural.
Anyway, your comment covered a lot of ground and responding to all of it at length is getting unwieldy. I encourage you to try to restate my views in a way I’d agree with before responding to them or dismissing them, because you also are often dismissing them on grounds I didn’t rest my views on. It’s clear we’re talking past eachother. And again, I’m sorry you are frustrated.
Dustin (303dca) — 6/7/2013 @ 4:37 pm== For me, fixing it means a country that is not dependent on government and abhors losing freedom==
Sounds good. So, how long are you thinkin’ it’ll take you to turn ‘er around, Dustin? (Assuming you think she’s still salvageable.)
elissa (44e088) — 6/7/2013 @ 6:00 pmThat’s a fair question. Consider the sheer scope of what I think needs to be done! We need to revive a moral culture. Schools, churches, TV, music! I’m not even sure we can stop the left from pushing things in the wrong direction, let alone turn it around.
Our unfunded liabilities (the baby boomer contribution to America) will probably not be fixed, and I think they will lead to a breaking point economically that will impact food, energy, and industry terribly. Then, even deficit spending will be unable to continue the programs that so many have used as a foundation for their lives. Inevitably, people will have no choice but to make their own, independent way. And with that will come dignity and a future that is more free.
The timeline? Lengthy indeed.
I sorely wish we could avoid all that. With leaders like Mitch Daniels or Scott Walker, I sometimes can entertain the chance of huge reforms. But the 2012 election convinced me the GOP has moved too far to the left to make this realistic, and the nation has moved farther left still.
Still, life is great in Texas, America’s last stand.
Dustin (303dca) — 6/7/2013 @ 8:41 pmThis article explains why I’m so frustrated with Christie. In a nutshell, he’s perfectly willing to disappoint and even anger Republicans by compromising conservative principles if it benefits him personally. He assumes the GOP will forgive and forget. Maybe the GOP has become so moderate that he’s correct.
Also, I don’t think it’s fixable, Dustin, because too many young people believe in the liberal agenda. I hope we can find a way to save Texas before they bankrupt us financing their lifestyles.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/10/2013 @ 6:20 amWhat we need is another round of Jonathan Edwards, George Whitfield, the Wesleys and the like.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 6/10/2013 @ 6:50 am