Fox News Reporter Targeted As Criminal Suspect by Obama DoJ for Publishing Leaks
The Washington Post reports that the Obama Justice Department targeted FOX News reporter James Rosen for investigation after Rosen attempted to obtain leaks from the Obama administration. Rosen’s case is different from that of the Associated Press in a notable and quite remarkable way: Rosen was treated as a suspect in the investigation:
In the documents, FBI agent Reginald Reyes described in detail how Kim and Rosen moved in and out of the State Department headquarters at 2201 C St. NW a few hours before the story was published on June 11, 2009. …
Reyes wrote that there was evidence Rosen had broken the law, “at the very least, either as an aider, abettor and/or co-conspirator.” That fact distinguishes his case from the probe of the AP, in which the news organization is not the likely target.
From the available facts, James Rosen does not appear to have aided and abetted any violations of the laws against disclosing classified information, any more than the buyer of illegal narcotics aids and abets the sale of those narcotics by purchasing them. If there are laws against receiving classified information — something I don’t know about, as I am no expert in federal criminal law — Rosen may well have violated those laws . . . along with dozens to hundreds of other reporters and editors at media outlets across the nation. Let the overbearing prosecutions begin!
Its now official. Obama failed to even achieve all the success necessary to be Jimmy Carter II and is now firmly in Richard Nixon II territory.
SPQR (768505) — 5/20/2013 @ 9:29 amThis was before they sent the Rodman, which is in itself a deeply absurd exercise, how is a policy judgement, a TS/SCI violation?
narciso (3fec35) — 5/20/2013 @ 9:38 amI wonder if Holder recused himself here, too. Probably not, as Fox News employees aren’t really reporters; unlike mainstream reporters they have a political slant.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 5/20/2013 @ 9:40 amSPQR, Nixon had foreign policy success. This is Jimmy Nixon, Dick’s stupider brother.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 5/20/2013 @ 9:42 amBarack Woebama
Colonel Haiku (aa8ee9) — 5/20/2013 @ 9:45 amUnarguably Corrupt
fish rots from the head
bananas foster is a fun easy dessert what is a tasty way to celebrate the new status our republic has attained
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bananas_Foster
happyfeet (c60db2) — 5/20/2013 @ 9:47 amFox anticipates
Colonel Haiku (aa8ee9) — 5/20/2013 @ 9:50 amWoe’s Declaration of War
goes full O’Reilly
I really think it’s a mistake for Kim Jong Un to keep firing those missiles when Obama is needing to wag the dog.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 5/20/2013 @ 10:00 amNow it’s FOX NEWS under criminal investigation for reporting on Fast-n-Furious. Looks like the DOJ has no more respect for the First Amendment than they do for the Second.
ropelight (785fea) — 5/20/2013 @ 10:08 amThe accusation seems to be that Risen instigated the leak, rather than being a passive recipient.
Like Judith Miller with Libby Scooter.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 5/20/2013 @ 10:18 amAnd the DOJ also smeared a Fast & Furious Whistleblower, and they have emails. (Breitbart)
This is just mind blowing. Is there any arm of the feds that has not engaged in intimidating and criminal wrongdoing?
Patricia (be0117) — 5/20/2013 @ 10:28 amIt’s easy to get the impression someone decided this is the optimal time for every single dirty scandal to emerge. A corrupt to the core admin is exposed too late to cost Obama the election (which it should have) and also too early to dent 2014 too badly. And all at once means that no one will really understand half the scandals.
Anyhow, several agencies are acting like they have completely lost their sense of right and wrong. It sure looks like this branch of government is rotten by design.
Dustin (2da3a2) — 5/20/2013 @ 10:40 amIf you cannot recall recusing youself, and if you don’t document your recusal with a written jurat document, is it really a recusal at all? More new legal issues from AG IDK and his adjunct constitutional untenured guest professor boss.
Bugg (b32862) — 5/20/2013 @ 10:46 amDustin is correct
Colonel Haiku (b924f9) — 5/20/2013 @ 10:59 amNot too hot and not too cold
sh*t soup is just right
I just don’t understand why K-man, Perry, “Dad,” and the rest of the left wing trolls aren’t here to defend the Alinsky Administration.
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 5/20/2013 @ 11:26 amReporters deserve the most severe punishment. Just for grits and shins.
Richard Aubrey (6c93a4) — 5/20/2013 @ 11:28 amLeaking classified material requires something worse.
That said, the Noble First does protect reporters who publish leaked material. Not sure I like the idea but that doesn’t matter, because I’m a conservative.
I suppose the usual story is that investigating the reporter is how they get to the leaker. Any chilling effect is unfortunate–govspeak for feature not bug.
And every day we get another serving, it seems.
Dustin (2da3a2) — 5/20/2013 @ 11:44 amNow it’s out DOJ targeted another Fox reporter as well as a producer. The hits just keep coming.
Thug government, the Chicago Way!
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/20/2013 @ 11:45 amWhen you’ve lost Greenwald…
Ghost (2d8874) — 5/20/2013 @ 11:48 amScandalmania is reaching epic proportions: the Slimes today piles on with an article outlining what a mess medical coverage will be when people lose or change jobs, move, etc. They will be bouncing on and off the exchanges–and the feds are working hard to make those transitions
!
Seamless! Government! LOL.
Patricia (be0117) — 5/20/2013 @ 11:56 amThey were even going after inactive lines;
http://weaselzippers.us/2013/05/20/oh-my-dojs-secret-subpoena-of-ap-phone-records-broader-than-initially-revealed-included-21-phone-lines-in-5-ap-offices-reporters-home-phones/
narciso (3fec35) — 5/20/2013 @ 11:57 amPetty tyrant.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/20/2013 @ 11:57 amThou shalt not disparage the word and deeds of Teh Won!
If they can’t find anything specific in the Federal Criminal Code, that provision will do.
askeptic (b8ab92) — 5/20/2013 @ 12:08 pmSaraW, at the 1+Billion Dollars we spent on supporting the White House each of this “petty tyrant’s” first four years of reign, I would beg to differ as to his “pettiness”.
askeptic (b8ab92) — 5/20/2013 @ 12:10 pmHe is reaching Grand proportions.
Sure, askeptic, the scale of corruption is tremendous.
But the guy is petty and pathetic. This kind of reaction to criticism from Tea Partiers was totally unnecessary and damages the office of the presidency. Obama doesn’t care because he can’t take the criticism. Because he’s a petty little tyrant, it seems.
Dustin (2da3a2) — 5/20/2013 @ 12:13 pmGeez people, it’s only Fox fer goodness sakes. You guys sure get do your undies in a bunch over the slightest little assault on the first amendment and the free press. Everybody knows they’re not a real news organization. It’s FAUX News. They’ve been asking for it for the longest time. The American public has no interest in the truth. Yet, these crazy Fox types obviously have been out there trying to get to the truth and in the process of finding the truth have been caught mining sources and performing journalism. We cannot have any of that during this administration. Fox has gotten what they deserve from the non partisan DOJ, from the impartial affidavits of the sincere FBI guy, and from the wholly clear headed judge who signed off on that secret search warrant.
elissa (1ac480) — 5/20/2013 @ 12:16 pmM Aubery,
from the application, they already had the leaker (Mr. Kim) identified and enough evidence to convict him just from his own computer files. You have the process reversed the “story is that investigating the leaker is how they get to the reporter.”
I recommend a perusal of the warrant application (a link is at the end of the WaPo story).
max (131bc0) — 5/20/2013 @ 12:18 pmElissa, I’m sure a lot of people are saying exactly that. Same as with the Tea Partiers (the IRS scandal bothers me the most of all the recent scandals).
Fox News has been demonized relentlessly, so the administration felt it could get away with this. And they are right. They are probably going to get away with this. Wrists will be slapped, but the stage is set. Will the next Obama whistleblower talk to Fox News, knowing the reporter will have a wiretap or worse? Probably not, if the scandal is bad enough. And as we know, the scandals are pretty bad.
The country is decisively turning a corner.
Dustin (2da3a2) — 5/20/2013 @ 12:20 pmThe left will not care, because Fox is not covered by the 1st Amendment because they are not media but propoganda.
JD (22d860) — 5/20/2013 @ 12:21 pmIt wasn’t all that long ago the NY Times tipped off Al Qaeda how the US was tracking their terrorist activities by monitoring financial transactions.
Of course, even Islamic terrorists can read the Times and they quickly quit transferring money electronically. The reporters won praise from their peers, the terrorists escaped easy detection, and the US became more vulnerable to attack.
But, back then, Eric Holder wasn’t in the business of thwarting Islamic terrorism, his office was busy defending terrorists from prosecution.
ropelight (785fea) — 5/20/2013 @ 12:22 pmThere’s a reason why Obama has bonded with few foreign leaders like he has with Turkish PM Erdogan. Who famously said that democracy is like a bus; you get off of it when you reach your stop.
They are the same. Obama has actually written a glowing opinion piece about Erdogan for a newspaper that Erdogan seized from his opposition and turned into an organ of the state.
Steve57 (9b1cdb) — 5/20/2013 @ 12:22 pm“This kind of reaction to criticism from Tea Partiers was totally unnecessary and damages the office of the presidency.”
Dustin – Thought crime is not a victimless crime in this administration. President Asterisk has notoriously thin skin and those who oppose his agenda or disagree with him must be punished with the full resources of the government, whether that is the IRS, DOJ, NLRB, OSHA, EPA, BATF, DHS, EEOC, FCC, FBI or other agency of which Obama disclaims knowledge.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/20/2013 @ 12:29 pm26- Was that Dan Pfeiffer in drag?
askeptic (b8ab92) — 5/20/2013 @ 12:32 pmThe only way this nonsense is gonna stop is if enough influential journalists stand up in solidarity with a free press and say, in effect, “ich bin ein Berliner”. I won’t hold my breath but it could happen.
As an aside, does anybody else think Rosen may have been purposely set up to be the receiver of this “leak”?
elissa (1ac480) — 5/20/2013 @ 12:33 pmDustin, he is all of that, and he has done all of that.
askeptic (b8ab92) — 5/20/2013 @ 12:35 pmAnd, he doesn’t care because he has no basic respect for the country he leads, nor the government he heads.
He is, after all, just a community organizer.
Just in case anyone thinks I’m making things up.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/05/16/op-ed-president-obama-partnership-delivers
Sabah is a paper that Erdogan seized entirely due to its opposition views (precisely the criteria Obama’s IRS used for its harassment). Then as is his habit he auctions these seized assets off to his supporters. In this case the only bidder for Sabah was Erdogan’s son-in-law. It appears that everyone got the word that Erdogan would be awfully upset if somebody outbid his daughter’s hubby.
Obama chose to write this opinion piece knowing all of the above.
Steve57 (9b1cdb) — 5/20/2013 @ 12:36 pm“There’s a reason why Obama has bonded with few foreign leaders like he has with Turkish PM Erdogan. Who famously said that democracy is like a bus; you get off of it when you reach your stop.”
Steve57 – Just go back to Obama’s Apology Tour and Cairo speech and you can see the juvenile roots of his foreign policy. Once Muslim majority countries have democratically elected governments he believes all violence and terrorism will stop (Don’t look over there at the Palestinian territories or Lebanon, though).
It’s working out beautifully for him in Egypt and Libya and other places.
What a dork.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/20/2013 @ 12:40 pmYou kind of have to wonder when the EPA will nationalize the assets of Big-Oil (and Coal) in the national interest to save the World from AGW?
askeptic (b8ab92) — 5/20/2013 @ 12:40 pmWe have our own Little Hugo.
Comment by Patricia (be0117) — 5/20/2013 @ 10:28 am
It would be nice to throw the book at the DOJ people smearing the whistleblower…unless they cooperate…but then again, is the DOJ going to prosecute the DOJ doing the cover for the DOJ…?
I don’t think so.
From the available facts, James Rosen does not appear to have aided and abetted any violations of the laws against disclosing classified information, any more than the buyer of illegal narcotics aids and abets the sale of those narcotics by purchasing them.
No entiende.
Isn’t someone breaking the law if they buy narcotics illegally? Is someone breaking the law if they publish classified info? I thought that was why/how people got away with it, even when it was classified and publishing it was harmful.
Did they have a warrant? Can you ever file a complaint somewhere if you think a judge gave a warrant inappropriately?
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 5/20/2013 @ 12:45 pmIs there a critical mass of ignorance that the president can get in trouble for? After all, at some point we do expect the person in charge to know something.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 5/20/2013 @ 12:48 pmIt wasn’t about troop movements, like David Sanger who continues to this day, to receive leaks, or intelligence operatives like Shane, it was an opinion about what the Kim’s obviously did.
narciso (3fec35) — 5/20/2013 @ 12:49 pmI think the MFM will back Fox. Tapper is covering it today.
Look how Ryan Lizza describes himself on twitter: Washington Correspondent for The New Yorker, Contributor for CNN, aider, abettor and/or co-conspirator.
Patricia (be0117) — 5/20/2013 @ 1:17 pmTurns out it was 2 Fox reporters, and a producer.
JD (22d860) — 5/20/2013 @ 1:22 pmWe need to round zem up, before they round us up.
mg (31009b) — 5/20/2013 @ 1:23 pmIf they had pursued the phone records of Fox News hotties such as Jenna Lee and Andrea Tantaros, I’d almost understand !
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 5/20/2013 @ 1:29 pmPatricia@42–If that was in response to my #34,thank you very much. Well, thank you even if it wasn’t in response to my earlier point, because I had not seen the reactions from several media influencers as you documented. That is indeed encouraging.
elissa (1ac480) — 5/20/2013 @ 1:29 pmThere was nothing wrong done here because faux news isn’t news….and even if there was Obama didn’t know anything this was the justice department.
Timothy (b6add1) — 5/20/2013 @ 1:33 pmHow similar to Rob Portman we are here.
We don’t advocate for Bradley Manning, Julian Assange, or Daniel Ellsberg. Doesn’t matter. But the second it’s a Fox reporter? HOTFOOT!
Wikileaks and the Pentagon Papers uncovered war crimes, cover ups and wholesale deceit by the government. Did Drudge care? Did Patterico write about reporters covering the RNC or OWS that were illegally kettled? Does Breitbart decry the taxpayer dollars now being shelled out in those settlements? Nope.
Sen. Portman finally “evolved” on gay marriage when he realized he was restricting the liberty of an immediate family member. Till that point, he could have given a rip about equal protection under the law.
Here we see the right finally taking up defense of the First Amendment, after they killed a Shield Law with a filibuster, after they led the shredding of the Constitution with the Patriot Act.
I saw someone call this Obama’s jiu-jitsu, just apply an odious, questionable law to the right and they’ll finally care. It was only last week we found out the DOJ did this to the AP, but that didn’t deserve coverage? Unlike the Rosen case, the DOJ failed to get warrants!
Here’s the other rub – Fox News parent News Corp has already seen over 100 of it’s employees arrested for illegal phone hacking, related bribes and cover ups. Not important?
Not one right winger said Rupert Murdoch should step down because he knew or should have known this was going on in his name. What else? Fox News secretly wiretaps it’s own workers, which is technically legal, but ethically a huge outlier. No one here cares.
It’s better late than never. This is a GREAT issue to go after Obama on.
Didn’t Obama promise he could get people from both sides to work together? We are not red states or blues states, we are the United States. From Bill O’Reilly to Rachel Maddow, everyone agrees Eric Holder is a shit heel. Shall we lock arms now or later?
Mahalia Cab (495f84) — 5/20/2013 @ 1:36 pmSo, this would fall on Hillary’s shoulders, no,
narciso (3fec35) — 5/20/2013 @ 1:37 pmhey there Dan pfeiffer
Colonel Haiku (01ad4d) — 5/20/2013 @ 1:44 pmit’s irrelevant you got
teh Corksoaker Blues
daley @37, the roots of his foreign policy may be juvenile but they betray the sinister aspect of his domestic plans.
Erdogan is seeking a fundamental transformation of his country. Erdogan hates his country as it is founded. And this fundamental transformation can only be achieved if no more than token opposition is allowed and no one can effectively ask questions about it.
Does that remind you of anyone?
Oh, by the way via twitchy we learn that the feds were spying one other reporter and a producer at Fox:
http://twitchy.com/2013/05/20/bombshell-not-just-rosen-a-livid-megyn-kelly-reports-more-at-fox-news-targeted-by-doj/
Steve57 (9b1cdb) — 5/20/2013 @ 1:44 pmWhen you’ve lost The New Yorker…
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/2013/05/obama-denies-role-in-government.html
Steve57 (9b1cdb) — 5/20/2013 @ 1:48 pm“Oh, by the way via twitchy we learn that the feds were spying one other reporter and a producer at Fox:”
Steve57 – Yep, I noted that above.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/20/2013 @ 1:49 pmI missed that somehow, daley. Sorry.
Steve57 (9b1cdb) — 5/20/2013 @ 1:54 pmJay Carney admits today that the White House Counsel learned of the upcoming TIGTA audit report on the IRS targeting of conservative groups on April 24 and subsequently informed other senior White House staff. Basically everybody in the White House except Obama knew about according to Carney because they decided not to tell him because they know how much he loves surprises or something.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/20/2013 @ 1:56 pmGood point, elissa, maybe it was a set up. I wouldn’t put it past these thugs.
Patricia (be0117) — 5/20/2013 @ 1:56 pmI shouldn’t hope, but the media scandals really seem to be lighting a fire under the MSM. I know that this means they can claim to be fair when they dismiss other scandals (namely, scandals that might hurt a future candidate rather than a lame duck), but still… the democrat brand should be damaged by all this, right? I even see MSNBC taking some of this seriously.
The problem is that the media is the entire reason why all this happened. They would not and did not hold Obama to any sort of standards in 2008 or 2012 or any time between. What do they expect to happen when a President has no media to fear?
Dustin (2da3a2) — 5/20/2013 @ 1:57 pmMahalia is truly an idiot. She erects armies of strawpeople, propped up with false assertions, then takes a flamethrower to them, and then pats herself on he back for her fiscal conservatism.
JD (22d860) — 5/20/2013 @ 2:02 pmI believe the evidence points to the fact the reason Obama has no knowledge whatsoever of the activities of the executive branch is because he’s too busy running al Qaeda.
Steve57 (9b1cdb) — 5/20/2013 @ 2:07 pmShorter Mahalia Cab…
“You evil conservatives don’t understand that Obama is proving his allegiance to the Constitution by trampling on it. Or something. Foxxx Newwws !!!”
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 5/20/2013 @ 2:08 pm54. It’s just craziness. I am starting to think that they really are itching for him to be brought up for impeachment because it would change the subject and refocus the media. And that would also allow them to inflame the base by pulling out the only narrative that seems to still be in their quiver that may still be working — “the Republicans are picking on and hate Obama because…” well you know why because.
And this is exactly why “Resist we much”.
elissa (1ac480) — 5/20/2013 @ 2:10 pmMahalia, could you remind us again what your political affiliations and history are–or what you claimed in earlier threads that they are?
elissa (1ac480) — 5/20/2013 @ 2:15 pmGuess what happened the day after Obama penned an opinion piece for for what was once an opposition newspaper but currently is an undisguised Justice and Development Party propaganda outfit wholly owned by the Erdogan family?
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/state-fund-seizes-media-assets-motor-company-of-turkeys-cukurova-group.aspx?pageID=238&nID=47110&NewsCatID=345
Yup. Erdogan’s appointees seized some of the last remaining of what once were and now are no longer independent media outlets.
Obama looks on in wistful admiration.
Steve57 (9b1cdb) — 5/20/2013 @ 2:24 pm#LiberalBandNames teh Anal Fissures feat. Brett Kimbalin
Colonel Haiku (2c2cec) — 5/20/2013 @ 2:43 pmThe IRS story is the tip of the iceberg. Look how many people have suddenly developed OSHA, DOL, FBI, HHS, etc issues as well. I am sure those are all coincidences.
JD (22d860) — 5/20/2013 @ 2:52 pm“We don’t advocate for Bradley Manning, Julian Assange, or Daniel Ellsberg. Doesn’t matter. But the second it’s a Fox reporter? HOTFOOT!”
Mahalia – Can you explain why James Rosen is similar to the first three people you mention, please?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/20/2013 @ 2:57 pmMahalia can probably link us to places where he/she has advocated for Bradley and Julian and Daniel over the years, daley
elissa (1ac480) — 5/20/2013 @ 3:05 pmMahalia – Where did you get today’s talking points? Think Progress, Media Matters, Crooks and Liars?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/20/2013 @ 3:07 pmDaley – that question is unfair, as it supposes critical thinking and intellectual honesty from someone with a demonstrated history of contempt for both.
JD (22d860) — 5/20/2013 @ 3:08 pmThe best way to bring the Bamster down is to make him the butt of all jokes, and just ride his a$$ into the sunset in a cloud of ridicule.
With skin as thin as his, he’ll self-destruct sooner rather than later.
We’ll know when he’s gone by his being the object of jokes on Letterman.
When you’ve lost Letterman, not even the NYT will defend you.
askeptic (b8ab92) — 5/20/2013 @ 3:08 pmDid not our favorite troll MC connect (above) the Pentagon Papers and Drudge?
askeptic (b8ab92) — 5/20/2013 @ 3:33 pmDrudge who was not even around when the papers were released by the NYT, and there was no Internet?
Language comprehension is not a feature in MC’s intellect, let alone history.
R.I.P. Ray Manzarek
Icy (4b226c) — 5/20/2013 @ 3:35 pmWell, Leno has suggested the one’s new motto is “Hope and Change the Subject”
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 5/20/2013 @ 3:35 pmMr. narciso, nobody ever “sent the Rodman”.
Icy (4b226c) — 5/20/2013 @ 3:49 pmReporters may not have been prosecuted but foreign spies and members of AIPAC (sorry for the redundacy) have been, for inducing government officials to provide them with classified information.
nk who's been experiencing grade school again (875f57) — 5/20/2013 @ 3:54 pmCookies! Sorry.
nk (875f57) — 5/20/2013 @ 3:54 pmIt is possible that Title 18 section 793, with respect to transmitting national defense information might apply to Rosen.
paragraph e:
whoever having unauthorized possession of, access to, or control over any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defense, or information relating to the national defense which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation, willfully communicates, delivers, transmits or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted, or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it; or
I’m guessing that if the US ever decides to go after Julian Assange, this is the ax they will swing.
Calfed (5b899d) — 5/20/2013 @ 3:56 pmaskeptic, REALITY comprehension is a feature not found within Mahalia Cab’s genetic makeup.
Icy (4b226c) — 5/20/2013 @ 4:01 pmTwo things, Calfed:
Icy (4b226c) — 5/20/2013 @ 4:05 pm1) No, that statute doesn’t really apply to Rosen.
2) The US will never “go after Julian Assange”; not for what he has done up to this point, anyway.
Two things, Calfed:
1) No, that statute doesn’t really apply to Rosen.
2) The US will never “go after Julian Assange”; not for what he has done up to this point, anyway.
You certainly could be right about #2.
Tell me why the statute does not apply to Rosen
Calfed (5b899d) — 5/20/2013 @ 4:08 pmNew York Times Co. v. United States, 403 U.S. 713 (1971)
Dustin (2da3a2) — 5/20/2013 @ 4:10 pmIs he actually being prosecuted?
No.
He was targeted to, A) Give the DoJ more evidence to use against the leaker; and, B) Intimidate the media at-large into thinking twice before publishing info gained from leakers in the future.
Icy (4b226c) — 5/20/2013 @ 4:15 pmBIG BRUTHA IS WATCHIN’ YOU!!!
Icy (4b226c) — 5/20/2013 @ 4:20 pmYes, he can. The conspiracy section is 793(g):
(g)If two or more persons conspire to violate any of the foregoing provisions of this section, and one or more of such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy, each of the parties to such conspiracy shall be subject to the punishment provided for the offense which is the object of such conspiracy.
And remember, for purposes of this discussion, that the standard of proof for obtaining a search warrant is much lower than the standard for conviction.
nk (875f57) — 5/20/2013 @ 4:26 pmCitizen: Anyone who has access to anything injurious to the USA is required to report it to an officer of the USA! If you do not comply you shall be punished. If you commit journalism, you shall be punished. These laws exist to protect you! If you disagree, list every post you’ve ever written and submit a form explaining your prayers and who you pray with. Also submit to involuntary inspections of your home and workplace.
Obama had a good reason to not tell us this information. It is for your own good.
Dustin (2da3a2) — 5/20/2013 @ 4:29 pmMaybe Obama needs to take some of his campaign money and fund a secret “plumbers” group out of his office, and subject only to his authority. That way he can really go after leakers.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 5/20/2013 @ 4:35 pmLoose lips sink ships.
nk (875f57) — 5/20/2013 @ 4:36 pmMahalia Cab, it never ceases to amaze me how you keep repeating the same falsehoods over and over. No matter how often debunked.
Its like you were living in some alternate universe of your own …
SPQR (768505) — 5/20/2013 @ 4:37 pmBTW, this is yet another example of left-wingnut thinking. A law is passed that gives a Republican President additional power. The Left screams bloody murder about how this new law gratuitously tramples on the basic rights of the most lowly citizen (even though the actual new powers are modest). The Republican president does far less than the law allows, and only then in narrow and important cases. Yet, the Left’s constant harping makes some believe he has abused the law.
A Democrat gets in power and immediately does everything that was feared, and more, stretching the powers that were granted well past the statutory limits, and lies about it. The Republican is blamed.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 5/20/2013 @ 4:43 pmI sincerely believe that, and I believe that there is such a thing as treasonous leaks. But that law is ridiculously overdoing it.
And with this administration’s track record, we just can’t trust them to use the their prosecutorial discretion well. If the law can be interpreted in a tyrannical way, that law must be undone. This government will take advantage if it can.
Dustin (2da3a2) — 5/20/2013 @ 4:44 pmIs he actually being prosecuted?
No.
He was targeted to, A) Give the DoJ more evidence to use against the leaker; and, B) Intimidate the media at-large into thinking twice before publishing info gained from leakers in the future.
Comment by Icy (4b226c) — 5/20/2013 @ 4:15 pm
I agree that he will probably never be prosecuted and that the motivation for identifying him as a subject was as a basis for obtaining a search warrant to obtain evidence against the actual leaker.
However, I think that the law does apply to Rosen.
If the Justice Department thinks they will gain much by attempting to intimidate the press, I believe they will find that the juice was not worth the squeeze.
Calfed (5b899d) — 5/20/2013 @ 4:44 pmMaybe Radley Balko is right — maybe we are each committing a dozen federal felonies a day. Nobody better ask me for directions to the federal building or what city the Secretary of Defense has his office in.
nk (875f57) — 5/20/2013 @ 4:47 pmWhy have their not been more prosecutions concerning leaked info? Bush and co just chose not to be active at it?
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 5/20/2013 @ 4:48 pmWhich is to say I was being tongue in cheek with “loose lips …”.
nk (875f57) — 5/20/2013 @ 4:50 pmWell there’s often the problem of greymail, more classified information, may be disclosed in the course of discovery.
narciso (3fec35) — 5/20/2013 @ 4:53 pmThere are some rather significant constitutional questions about whether or not you can actually make a prosecution under that statute of someone who wasn’t working for a foreign govt and did not themselves have a duty to keep classified info secure.
SPQR (768505) — 5/20/2013 @ 4:53 pmIt is interesting when you hear things like people making plywood “tanks” in WWII that were used as decoys in parts of Britain, etc. prior to D-day.
What’s your job? Cutting plywood into pieces of a fake tank.- Oops!
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 5/20/2013 @ 4:54 pmAfter Scooter Libby, everything else is anti-climactic, and real spies are seldom dealt with publicly, apparently. Russia is being accused of “breach of protocol” for outing two of our spies that tried to turn one of their people.
nk (875f57) — 5/20/2013 @ 4:54 pmThey expelled an attorney, Thomas Firestone, who had been the Embassy’s legal advisor.
narciso (3fec35) — 5/20/2013 @ 4:56 pmWhen the NY Times outed Bush’s program to eavesdrop on Americans when they contacted al Qaeda members, something many people thought treasonous (and far beyond this little kerfluffle), there would have been Hell to pay if Bush had gone after the NY Times reporters and editors who broke NSA security.
I’d call this a double standard, if the Obama folks had standards.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 5/20/2013 @ 4:58 pmObama thinks we need to pass a Shield Law to protect reporters from Obama?
WTF?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/20/2013 @ 4:59 pmdaleyrocks, well, its not like he’s running the government …
SPQR (768505) — 5/20/2013 @ 5:01 pmDaley – and a shield law that would not apply to these kinds of cases. So, SQUIRREL
JD (22d860) — 5/20/2013 @ 5:02 pmThank God we have a constitutional law professor at teh helm, or who knows what would’ve been going on!
Colonel Haiku (bc5675) — 5/20/2013 @ 5:04 pmNixon was much better a this.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 5/20/2013 @ 5:07 pmI guess it boils down to the reality that for people of the left the main enemies are republicans, especially conservatives, and anyone who does not tow the left intelligencia party line.
sad, sad, sad.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 5/20/2013 @ 5:08 pmR.I.P. Ray Manzarek
Comment by Icy
Sonuvagun! I just read (actually breezed thru) a book on that waste of space Jim Morrison and was thinking the keyboardist was really getting on in years… Actually, teh Doors was one of my faves when I was in junior high and High School and whenever I hear one of their songs I’m reminded of this clown kid we had in our drafting class who favored V-neck sweaters (without benefit of shirt underneath) who always wore sunglasses in class and was fond of standing up anytime he felt like it and reaching above his desk for these retractable power cords that hovered over each of us and use it as his microphone as he would serenade the class with “Break On Thru” or Back Door Man” before our teacher would grab him and send him out of the class to the VP’s office. Never failed to crack us all up.
Colonel Haiku (bc5675) — 5/20/2013 @ 5:13 pmFirestone seems to be a victim of the kleptocracy, but it’s hard to know why Russians do things.
nk (875f57) — 5/20/2013 @ 5:19 pmSomething is rotten with the Obama Administration!
John L (898847) — 5/20/2013 @ 5:21 pmSomething is rotten with the Obama Administration.
John L (898847) — 5/20/2013 @ 5:22 pmAnd now we know the rest of the story;
http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/05/emily-miller-d-c-mayor-was-in-on-david-gregory-coverup/
narciso (3fec35) — 5/20/2013 @ 5:22 pmWhat a scary Hell those poor little 3rd graders must have gone thru in Moore, OK…
Colonel Haiku (bc5675) — 5/20/2013 @ 5:34 pmThe FBI didn’t seem particularly interested when Sandy Berger was caught trying to steal classified documents in his socks.
I gues he wasn’t a Fox reporter, so it was ok.
Amphipolis (e01538) — 5/20/2013 @ 5:36 pmColonel, I loved his high piano on Ryders on the storm.
mg (31009b) — 5/20/2013 @ 5:39 pmHis style of playing keyboards is one reason they never had a base player.
But the Sandy Burglar thing happened a long time ago, Amph. So see, that’s the difference right there.
elissa (1ac480) — 5/20/2013 @ 5:48 pmWell elissa, remember that was to protect the Clinton administration’s ‘sterling’ record on terrorism, sarc.
narciso (3fec35) — 5/20/2013 @ 6:04 pmelissa
Craig Livingstone
E.PWJ (016f5f) — 5/20/2013 @ 6:05 pmThe FBI didn’t seem particularly interested when Sandy Berger was caught trying to steal classified documents in his socks.
I gues he wasn’t a Fox reporter, so it was ok.
Comment by Amphipolis (e01538) — 5/20/2013 @ 5:36 pm
This is not correct…the FBI investigated Berger’s theft of classified documents from the National Archives. The case was presented to the Justice Department, which let Berger off the hook with a misdemeanor guilty plea.
Calfed (5b899d) — 5/20/2013 @ 6:22 pmBy the way, Berger claimed that it was all a mistake.
We know that “C” marked on a document indicates “Classified”. Berger testified that he thought it meant “Coat” and placed the documents so marked in his coat.
Similarly, he mistakenly thought that “S” meant “Socks” instead of “Secret” and acted accordingly.
Finally, he concluded that “TS” meant “Trousers” rather than “Top Secret”
Calfed (5b899d) — 5/20/2013 @ 6:29 pmComment by Calfed (5b899d) — 5/20/2013 @ 6:22 pm
I guess the FBI and the US Attorneys are like the R and L hands of the DOJ, is that a fair characterization?
Compare the slap on the wrist of Sandy Berger to the persecution of Scooter Libby. That was a crime.
Having a D after your name in DC is kind of like having a “Get out of jail free” card in Monopoly, I guess.
It could be discouraging, thinking about it.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 5/20/2013 @ 6:33 pmComment by Calfed (5b899d) — 5/20/2013 @ 6:29 pm
I guess that works for berger’s description, but the real mistake was he wasn’t slapped into a fed prison until it was understood what he destroyed and why.
Oklahoma tornado, an F4 that was 2 miles wide and a 20 mile long path on the ground. That’s bad.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 5/20/2013 @ 6:35 pmAnd they didn’t even touch Armitage, since they knew he had leaked first, he’s now Erdogan’s man in D.C.
narciso (3fec35) — 5/20/2013 @ 6:37 pmAnd Powell knew it was Armitage and said nothing as well, apparently.
Sometimes it really does seem to just be a network of who can blackmail who into silence or action.
And people who have nothing to hide, nothing to leverage with, must get crucified.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 5/20/2013 @ 6:43 pmBut OT, I don’t think I’ve ever heard of something as monstrous as a F4 tornado with a 2 mile wide swath of destruction.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 5/20/2013 @ 6:44 pmAccording to this, that’s more indicative of an F-5 or higher:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fujita_scale
narciso (3fec35) — 5/20/2013 @ 6:47 pmMD-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tri-State_Tornado
This 1925 tornado was not rated because of the date, but estimates are that it was F5. 695 fatalities and 219 continuous mile track. Hope this one today is not that bad when all the dust settles, but it’s tragic for sure.
elissa (1ac480) — 5/20/2013 @ 6:51 pmI guess the FBI and the US Attorneys are like the R and L hands of the DOJ, is that a fair characterization?
Compare the slap on the wrist of Sandy Berger to the persecution of Scooter Libby. That was a crime.
Having a D after your name in DC is kind of like having a “Get out of jail free” card in Monopoly, I guess.
It could be discouraging, thinking about it.
Comment by MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 5/20/2013 @ 6:33 pm
Calfed (5b899d) — 5/20/2013 @ 6:55 pmIf the stats are right, this would have to be an F-5, from the affected area,
narciso (3fec35) — 5/20/2013 @ 7:00 pmI guess the FBI and the US Attorneys are like the R and L hands of the DOJ, is that a fair characterization?
Compare the slap on the wrist of Sandy Berger to the persecution of Scooter Libby. That was a crime.
Having a D after your name in DC is kind of like having a “Get out of jail free” card in Monopoly, I guess.
It could be discouraging, thinking about it.
Comment by MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 5/20/2013 @ 6:33 pm
For more common cases like bank robberies, white collar crimes, kidnappings, etc, the prosecutor usually gives greater weight to the Agent’s input on the matter.
For highly political cases like the Sandy Berger case, the FBI acts almost exclusively as a fact finding body and has little or no input into the final resolution. The resolution of those types of cases usually comes from the top.
Calfed (5b899d) — 5/20/2013 @ 7:00 pmActually, it means “Confidential”. (Unless they’ve changed the classifications from when I was in that world.) Close enough, though.
Chuck Bartowski (ad7249) — 5/20/2013 @ 7:07 pmSince the USA under Obama is rapidly becoming the world’s biggest banana republic, a salute to his counterparts in Argentina is in order. But with a warning to Americans — particularly the ones who still think Obama is a beautiful, wonderful, humane soul — of just how absurd and corrupt things can become. IOW, a court in another banana republic thousands of miles to the south actually had to rule against the outrageous nature of Big Brother—ie, a current version of Evita-Peronism, or perhaps a slightly sterner version of Obama-ism:
Mark (dac375) — 5/20/2013 @ 7:27 pmWhat I heard said F4 based on 200 mph winds. The info cited does take into account other things in addition to speed of winds, such as width of the funnel on the ground.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 5/20/2013 @ 7:36 pmIDK, other than 200 mph winds are higher than usual and a 2 mile wide swath is much more than usual.
Many years in youth spent in Ohio, not as bad as other places, but not infrequent (such as Xenia).
re: #14… yep… I think “L.A. Woman” was one of the few songs they had a bass on, mg. I’ve always loved how that song begins… feel the same way about Neil Young’s “Don’t Cry No Tears”.
Colonel Haiku (a32d99) — 5/20/2013 @ 7:40 pmoh. also lotsa times there’s tasty banana pudding on the dessert bar at sizzler but I don’t think it has any actual bananas in it just artificial banana flavoring – so that’s not a good way to honor our republic
we’re the real deal!
but if you have a coupon don’t let me stop you
happyfeet (8ce051) — 5/20/2013 @ 7:40 pmthe tome, from this fellow;
http://www.independent.org/aboutus/person_detail.asp?id=1170
explains the kangaroo tribunal, they celebrated lasr week;
narciso (3fec35) — 5/20/2013 @ 7:57 pmIt is so good that we have the most transparent administration in history, led by a Constitutional Law professor.
/snark
I think we’ll find over 0’s eight years that his administration has committed every misdeed they accused Bush of.
htom (412a17) — 5/20/2013 @ 8:04 pmCalfed @91, the law you cite doesn’t apply to Rosen.
If you read the article in question, an article about what North Korea’s reaction might be to UN sanctions then being contemplated, he mentions he had declined to report certain facts precisely because it might harm the US or advantage the NORKs.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/11/north-korea-intends-match-resolution-new-nuclear-test/
In other words he had no “reason to believe” his reporting would have either of those two effects. Even if the government could prove the information that he did make public in fact harmed the US or helped the NORKs, they could never prove he had willfully done so.
Merely classifying information doesn’t let the government off the hook of having to prove to a judge that the release of that information would in fact harm national security. Frankly much of the information that’s classified can’t be defended. And the feds know this.
So to claim Rosen could be prosecuted under the statute you cite the government would have to have met a burden of proof that would have been impossible. The DoJ attorneys certainly knew the elements of the crime weren’t there. In fact the request for the secret warrant looks to me as it was intended to deceive the judge to obtain a warrant by convincing him that Rosen had done something that Rosen had in fact pointed out in the article in question he deliberately did not do.
Steve57 (9b1cdb) — 5/20/2013 @ 8:04 pmI’m gasterflabbered, Steve, not for the first time,
narciso (3fec35) — 5/20/2013 @ 8:10 pmHe was the only one, not told;
http://hotair.com/archives/2013/05/20/carney-no-seriously-obamas-lawyer-didnt-tell-him-that-the-irs-was-targeting-tea-partiers-when-she-found-out/
narciso (3fec35) — 5/20/2013 @ 8:27 pmWell, I know this came up numerous times during the Bush era. I thought it had come up enough times that everyone knew it’s not a crime for a reporter like Rosen to report information that he knows is classified. He has to also have a reason to believe that making that information public would harm national security.
One could argue that merely knowing the information is classified and then willfully transmitting that information to the world, including our enemies, would meet that standard. I know I made that argument when it was the NYT destroying the SWIFT program by revealing it, as information is supposed to be classified at a particular level based on the degree of harm to national security would be caused by its unauthorized disclosure.
So by definition if the information is properly classified its disclosure causes harm. But the fact is much of it is improperly classified. So the government has to go to court and prove the information is properly classified, that the disclosure did cause harm, that the reporter knew the harm that would be caused by its release, and went ahead and released to the public anyway.
I think there were incidents during the Bush years where this burden of proof could have been met, but the Rosen case doesn’t even come close.
The heavy handed way the government is operating doesn’t surprise me but this administration has added a new twist. They want you to know it can ignore the law and come down on you like a ton of bricks anytime it wants and there’s nothing anybody can do about it.
That’s what was surprising about the AP and IRS stories. They knew the AP would tell the world about the secret seizure of their phone records. They chose to announce the IRS targeting at ABA meeting in order to make it public first before ever answering any of Congress’ repeated inquiries into that very thing. And former IRS commissioner Miller basically walked into that House hearing and told Congress he doesn’t give a rip about their oversight authority because nobody is going to touch him or anyone else at the IRS for flipping them the bird for years. And I think he Obama administration backed Miller’s message with their own by promoting the woman who headed the division doing the targeting to head the office implementing Obamacare.
This reminds me of nothing more than the Muslim Brotherhood giving the media tours of their impromptu prisons where they were torturing anti-Morsi protesters who were demonstrating against the government over its new powergrabs. The MB was proud of their illegal brutality. Some people asked why they would show the world what they were doing.
The answer is simple; if the world didn’t know what they were doing, specifically their domestic audience, then what they were doing wouldn’t have the desired chilling effect on dissent. And they knew no one would stop them, and they wanted the world to know that too.
That paragraph just above applies equally to the Obama administration.
Steve57 (9b1cdb) — 5/20/2013 @ 9:12 pmForgive my ignorance, but doesn’t the First Amendment supersede any such laws, and hasn’t the Supreme Court ruled that there is a free expression right in obtaining (and publishing) classified information?
My memory indicates that the person who legitimately held the classified information is subject to prosecution, but the recipient thereof is not.
bridget (84c06f) — 5/20/2013 @ 9:42 pmI’ve given examples, battle plans pre Iraq War, names of interrogators given to detainees, one can add tail numbers of rendition flights, all of that was more dangerous then a policy paper.
narciso (3fec35) — 5/20/2013 @ 9:46 pmWe’re living in the age of the “What, me worry?” presidency.
Obama is like the babysitter making out with her boyfriend on the couch while one of the kids she’s supposed to be watching is down in the basement sending his little brother off for a ride in the dryer.
Icy (4b226c) — 5/20/2013 @ 9:53 pmobama is also kinda like a trashy fascist whore
happyfeet (8ce051) — 5/20/2013 @ 9:54 pmObama failed to even achieve all the success necessary to be Jimmy Carter II and is now firmly in Richard Nixon II territory.
I was thinking of how desensitized and dumbed down we, as a society, have become over the past several decades, since Carter was in the White House, and before him, Nixon. Some political analysts have noted that Obama currently is doing (and, so far, has gotten away with) what Nixon — assuming he was unethical and venal to the core — could have only dreamed of.
Obama is chock full of so much crud and junk, that something like the following — which would have stunned (and even grossed out) the public when Carter or Nixon was in office — is merely so much static in the background of today’s upside-down, Nidal-Hasan-ed, Benghazi-Youtube-video-ized world.
^ Not just America’s first black president, but its first bisexual one too. But at least he isn’t also corrupt and dishonest. Uh, oops. Strike that last sentence.
Mark (dac375) — 5/20/2013 @ 10:05 pmThoughts about OK:
Truly Devastating!
Luckily, they did have some warning; but 200mph winds….
And we think we can control Global Warming/Cooling/whatever….
Nature’s power is almost(?) infinite, and what do we have?
Teh Won’s ability to stop the rise of the oceans?
Give me a break.
Politically, the Chinese would say that this demonstrates the Gods anger at the ruler, and that the Emperor has lost the Mandate of Heaven.
To observe this lore should make the Multi-Culti’s quite happy; but being Progressives, it won’t as nothing seems to.
askeptic (2bb434) — 5/20/2013 @ 10:05 pmObama is like the babysitter making out with her boyfriend
In light of the article from Slate, that actually should be “Obama is like the babysitter making out with his boyfriend…”
Mark (dac375) — 5/20/2013 @ 10:08 pmbridget @141, you’re exactly right. The person responsible for safeguarding classified information is subject to a set of laws and regulations the reporter is not.
It is simply not illegal for a reporter to publish classified information. This is why reporters put their names on these articles in which they knowingly divulge classified information and get away with it. Because there’s no law against it.
And this is why the current administration is openly displaying its intent to shut down these leaks by wiretapping the reporters or seizing their phone records. Now people with inside knowledge that contradicts the authorized narrative being put out by the Ministry of Truth are afraid to talk to reporters. They may all be bugged and thus despite their best efforts can’t protect their sources.
This is another thing Prom Queen and his handlers have learned from their buddy Erdogan. All reporters in Turkey think their phones are bugged. And so do their dwindling supply of sources. I recall reading one article in which the author noted it’s impossible to get reporters in Turkey to talk about politics or the government unless everyone first shuts off their cell phones and removes the batteries.
Steve57 (9b1cdb) — 5/20/2013 @ 10:12 pm“Obama is like the babysitter making out with his boyfriend…”
maybe but this was probably just the one time and it only happened cause while he was babysitting obama got into the box wine and started feeling a little randy so he called up his boyfriend and his boyfriend came over and they turned rachel maddow way up so they could make sex without waking the kids but usually he was a good babysitter I bet very responsible and conscientious and he would help the kids with their homework and tell them funny stories
happyfeet (8ce051) — 5/20/2013 @ 10:16 pm^ LOL, happyfeet. I chuckle over the thought that in real life — beyond your online persona — you talk and write like George F Will or, to remove any political ramifications, Norman Mailer.
Mark (dac375) — 5/20/2013 @ 11:09 pmearly on in life Mr. Will was begifted with a seemingly endless store of commas, and how he chooses to sprinkle them about hither and yither is decidedly not conservative Mr. Mark
he luxuriates in commas almost like he thought they had food-stamp-like multiplier effects
happyfeet (8ce051) — 5/20/2013 @ 11:15 pmSteve57@148 It is simply not illegal for a reporter to publish classified information. This is why reporters put their names on these articles in which they knowingly divulge classified information and get away with it. Because there’s no law against it.
So would you say that Julian Assange is home free on the whole Bradley Manning matter?
Would he be if the Wikileaks website was based in the US and his conduct had occurred in the US?
Calfed (5b899d) — 5/20/2013 @ 11:43 pmI don’t know if Julian Assange could be prosecuted or not. But he can’t be prosecuted merely for the act of publishing classified information. If the government could prove the information was harmful, that he knew it was harmful, and that he willfully published it anyway then he could very well be prosecuted.
I think they could make the case as, if I recall correctly, Assange either redacted or didn’t post certain documents because they named names. I.e. compromised sources. But then he posted other documents to the web that did compromise sources. So he had a reason to believe that kind of information was harmful, and willfully made that information public anyway, then I don’t see why he couldn’t be prosecuted.
But read the statute carefully. If the authors of that legislation intended to criminalize the publication of classified information by reporters or anyone else they could have easily done so. They didn’t do that.
Steve57 (9b1cdb) — 5/21/2013 @ 12:38 amThe attempt by this DoJ to criminalize Rosen’s perfectly legal requests for information and then publish that information, or tell a judge that he had engaged criminal activity when he had not has seemed to unite both ends of the spectrum.
Twitchy has been following the WaPo’s very liberal Greg Greenwald as he rips the Obama administration over this thinly veiled attempt to intimidate the press or anyone who might become a source.
http://twitchy.com/2013/05/20/greenwald-blasts-obama-admin-thug-tactics-against-fncs-rosen-slams-obama-cheering-progs/
And Judge Napolitano did the same at Fox, as well as give a more detailed explanation of why Rosen’s activity is perfectly legal but why what the DoJ did to get that warrant may well violate some ordinary statutes but definitely violates the Constitution.
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/judge-napolitano-to-shep-rosen-committed-no-crime-absolutely-protected-by-1st-amendment/
Both Greenwald and Napolitano are right; there’s simply no crime. What’s more is if you read through the request for the warrant and the supporting documents they never actually describe anything close to the crimes they alleged in those same documents. They said quite a bit about Stephen Jin-Woo Kim who had the clearance and was the source and what he did, but that isn’t a basis to portray Rosen’s perfectly legal inquiry and reporting as crimes.
If those documents show any evidence of criminal activity it is the DoJ that violated the law, not Rosen.
Steve57 (9b1cdb) — 5/21/2013 @ 1:27 amThe Pope has sent his prayers – The Governor and her staff worked all night on sit in the relief efforts digging through the elementary school, Obama scheduled a news conference.
Bush would have been there that evening in work clothes…..
20 children dead, 24 more missing, 100 more people missing, fathers mothers, someone’s loved one
They didn’t need the national guard, nor the red cross – everyone came to help
Worst tornado they are saying in world history…
E.PWJ (c3dbb4) — 5/21/2013 @ 4:20 amNo way near the worst in history, except perhaps the history of that area.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 5/21/2013 @ 5:02 amelissa linked to a story about a quite terrible one:
Comment by elissa (1ac480) — 5/20/2013 @ 6:51 pm
I’m just shocked at these stories. There was nothing in Obama’s past history that would have any rational person conclude he was anything other than a good man and patriotic American who just wanted to do what he thought was best for his country.
Using the IRS to tyranize republicans, tapping the phones of journalists, and sending out his political army to intimidate and harrass private American citizens for daring to openly criticize him and support his opponents are the actions of a tyrant…there is no way such a good man as Obama would be involved in any of this. It must be his underlings, Obama wouldn’t know anything. His underlings just love him so much they are willing to violate laws to please him without him knowing.
Mr Pink (b6add1) — 5/21/2013 @ 5:51 amAh Tommy Christopher and Elspeth Reeves what are the odds;
http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/05/20/The-Administration-s-Talking-Points-Counter-Scandal-vs-Reality
narciso (3fec35) — 5/21/2013 @ 6:02 amComment by Mr Pink (b6add1) — 5/21/2013 @ 5:51 am
Get a life, fa***t.
nk (875f57) — 5/21/2013 @ 6:24 amGateway is reporting Stevens’ task in Benghazi was the buyback of Stingers sold by rogue State opposed by the CIA.
Oh, and Hicks’ report Clinton wanted a permanent consulate in ‘No Mans Land’ sans security.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 5/21/2013 @ 6:49 amSomehow mere resignation of players and impeachment of the Spokesmodel doesn’t quite seem adequate.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 5/21/2013 @ 6:53 amThere’s a simile in here someplace:
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/mount-everest-crowded-littered-with-corpses/
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 5/21/2013 @ 6:58 amMr. Pink is Timothy, using the same shtick.
Chuck Bartowski (11fb31) — 5/21/2013 @ 7:10 amOne day a real tornado will sweep across Persia and deposit a whole mess of Red Sea pedestrians there.
And their little dogs, too!
Icy (0cb7b3) — 5/21/2013 @ 7:34 am==Worst tornado they are saying in world history…
Comment by E.PWJ (c3dbb4) — 5/21/2013 @ 4:20 am
No way near the worst in history, except perhaps the history of that area.
elissa linked to a story about a quite terrible one:
Comment by MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 5/21/2013 @ 5:02 am==
In posting that reference and link to the 1925 tri-state tornado last evening I do not want anyone to think I was trying to minimize the significance or tragedy of the OK tornado on Monday. The horror of the lives that were lost and changed forever along with the damage to property, pets and livestock is terrible almost beyond comprehension. But the fact that the left and media immediately started to milk the tragedy and shape the narrative that yesterday’s tornado was “the worst in world history” because—-global warming —really ticks me off. We need to call them on it as they continue to try to pull that stuff.
After scientific analysis is completed, yesterday’s tornado may end up to be one of the widest, if not the widest swath that has ever been reported and documented hitting the ground. But in terms of overall size, duration, property damage, and fatalities, it’s not even close to the worst in history of the world.
elissa (e0c19d) — 5/21/2013 @ 7:35 amComment by Mr Pink (b6add1) — 5/21/2013 @ 5:51 am
Your sarcasm does give me a good chuckle. With a bit more subtlety, one might think you were being sincere and serious.
Mark (dac375) — 5/21/2013 @ 7:51 amAs someone that’s been sarcastic a time or two million, I’m thinking that the cut of Mr Pink’s jib is sailing over some heads here.
Icy (0cb7b3) — 5/21/2013 @ 7:59 amMark, when Obama said “Keep setting an example for what it means to be a man,” he was emphasizing — as he did several other times during that speech — a challenge to those young black men step up and act in a mature and responsible fashion. Given the preponderance within the lower income black community of single motherhood, deadbeat dads, crime, etc., talk of ‘being a man’ and ‘doing the right thing’ is a strong cultural element; one that black leaders, from Dr. King on down, have stressed in their speeches.
Icy (0cb7b3) — 5/21/2013 @ 8:36 amMr. Pink –
askeptic (b8ab92) — 5/21/2013 @ 8:36 amAs sarcasm it was superb.
But, why did it seem to be just another talking-point?
elissa- I certainly didn’t think you were minimizing yesterday’s disaster at all.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 5/21/2013 @ 10:23 amjust clarifying factual information.
back to the original topic, sort of, Rush says Attkinson has mentioned her personal work computer has been infiltrated or some such, but she hasn’t been specific about it (yet).
Surprise! Surprise! Surprise! (not)
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 5/21/2013 @ 10:25 amelissa, what do my political affiliations have to do with any given individual argument? Trying to pigeonhole me? Want to smear me with the sins of someone I agreed with? I’ve said before I am an Eisenhower Republican, remember? But let’s talk about the merits of this argument: the right writ large has never cared about these 1st Amendment battles till Rosen was named – even just to bash Obama, the AP scandal got put behind the IRS and Benghazi.
Advocated? I have signed petitions since I heard of the cover up of our troops killing the journalists when Wikileaks first broke. But the leaks are endless, creeping into every area, from foreign policy to banking, which is why the public was needed to crowd-scour through it all.
The right wing yawned through the Wikileaks saga – some called Obama’s illegal torture of Manning too soft – but Frey headlines this flap over Rosen in a heartbeat. If you really believe in the First Amendment protection of the press, as a genuine principle, that government intimidation of reporters is wrong, you have to stand up for that principle as it happens, and Wikileaks is doubtlessly the biggest incident since the Pentagon Papers.
Did Frey ever pipe up as Manning/Assange have been in Obama’s crosshairs – I don’t know, but when I googled “Patterico + Manning”, I got MY comment above…
daleyrocks, I assume by now you have seen that my post spurred a lengthy, substantive discussion above comparing the fine legal similarities and distinctions between Rosen and Manning/Assange/Ellsberg. So mission accomplished and I learned a lot myself so thanks to the posters. But to directly address you, Rosen and the others are all involved in the publication of classified material in cases where the leakers believe the public right to know about criminality or government deception trumps the government’s need to classify the info.
If you think I’m pasting talking points from left wing sites, catch me and embarrass me, but remember, if you go searching and can’t find anything, admit your accusations rang hollow. I have these reactions often on this site, because I see you guys tying yourself in knots trying not to “go after” Obama for things Bush did worse, but the fact is, both are criminals and you guys can’t touch Obama on those points unless you admit you were simply wrong about Bush and our Constitution.
askeptic, the Pentagon Papers have been a fixture in First Amendment debate every year since it happened. You bet your bippy Drudge invoked the Pentagon Papers over the years, for example calling out Clinton’s persecution of NYT’s Jeff Gerth way back in 1997 for reporting leaks on military secrets going to China. There have also been anniversaries and such, but when Wikileaks broke, it was a new day, so try to increase the substance of your arguments to match the intensity of your ad hominem attacks. All your pals are rooting for you…
SPQR, you keep calling my statements falsehoods without any back up. You can force me to live in your universe if you show proof of what you’re saying. To present a persuasive argument, you shoud state “Mahalia, your statmement is false, then you show proof by sharing your superior research and analysis, and THEN celebrate by calling me names. You keep skipping the middle step.
Col. Haiku, the Doors had many more than a few songs with bass – several on the first album and MOST of the songs on the next three, so it was not so rare.
Steve57, good example showing left and right coming together with Greenwald and Napolitano. Can you feel the love?
Mahalia Cab (0dd32b) — 5/22/2013 @ 1:52 pmIt’s impossible to talk about the merits of an argument with someone who deliberately mischaracterizes an argument to argue with a strawman.
No one has done what the Obama administration has done; declared a reporter a criminal co-conspirator for asking a government source for inside information. This has never been a first amendment battle because no conservative has ever gone there. Not even Nixon.
James C. Goodale successfully represented the NYT in New York Times Co. v. United States, also known as the Pentagon Papers case, when the Nixon administration tried to prevent publication of those documents.
Here’s what he had to say in his recent NYT op-ed:
Usually I provide the link before the article, but in typical dishonest NYT fashion the headline contained in the link is the exact opposite of what Goodale writes:
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2013/05/21/obama-the-media-and-national-security/only-nixon-harmed-a-free-press-more
Nowhere does Goodale say Nixon harmed the free press more. In fact he says the exact opposite. That Obama will surpass Nixon “as the worst president ever on issues of national security and press freedom” and indeed by naming Rosen a co-conspirator has already done what even Nixon never dared to do.
Why don’t you quit misrepresenting “the argument” on this blog’s comment threads, Ms. Cab, and become a NYT headline writer. You’d fit right in.
Steve57 (9b1cdb) — 5/22/2013 @ 2:28 pmBless your heart Mahalia. You fancy yourself as a noble someone who needs to ferret out the hypocrisy you see everywhere around you, don’t you? While failing to see it oozing out of every pore of yourself.
elissa (cb940d) — 5/22/2013 @ 2:31 pmComment by Steve57 (9b1cdb) — 5/22/2013 @ 2:28 pm
No one has done what the Obama administration has done; declared a reporter a criminal co-conspirator for asking a government source for inside information. This has never been a first amendment battle because no conservative has ever gone there. Not even Nixon.
But the potential always wa sthere in the law, and I think Scooter Libby was afraid this might hapopen to Judith Miller and for that reason lied.
Judith Miller had caused him to ask why Joe Wilson was picked for the misison to Niger and got back the (false) information that it was because his wife worked in the CIA.
Joe Wilson was actually picked because they knew he’d come back with a non-commital answer. Saddam Hussein could not have bought yellowcake from Niger – but the que3stioin was if he had tried.
People forget how much the CIA lied (to Bush) during the Bush adminstration.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 5/22/2013 @ 2:57 pmAnd the 2007 report about Iran and nuclear weapons.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/04/world/middleeast/04intel.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
That assessment was by some people who spoke for all 16 intelligence agencies.
It could only have been the work of dishonest people, probably foreign intelligence moles, because after all how stupid can you be?
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 5/22/2013 @ 3:00 pmNo, Wilson was picked because he had been there almost 20 years earlier, and his exwife had been a lobbyist for Gabon, his consulting firm, had ties to COGEMA, the French firm that controls the yellow cake trade in Niger.
narciso (3fec35) — 5/22/2013 @ 3:04 pmComment by narciso (3fec35) — 5/22/2013 @ 3:04 pm
Is that serious? Never heard of that angle, thought it was just his wife in the CIA.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 5/22/2013 @ 3:07 pmWell here’s some of that;
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1529076/posts
narciso (3fec35) — 5/22/2013 @ 3:12 pmHere’s another connection that may have facilitated his trip
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1622932/posts
And then there are the Saudi businessmen, the Al Amoudis who were clients of his firm.
narciso (3fec35) — 5/22/2013 @ 3:17 pmYes, Sammy, there’s always the possibility that an administration will use the pretext of law to flagrantly violate the bill of rights. In this case the First Amendment.
But since the violation is so flagrant, no President has ever done it until Obama. An unconstitutional act is by definition an unlawful act, consequently there was never a possibility “in law” that the government can commit unlawful, unconstitutional acts. So, err, what’s your point?
Steve57 (9b1cdb) — 5/22/2013 @ 3:21 pmThe more I read about how the Obama Administration has targeted reporters, the less I like it. And it’s hard for me to sympathize with journalists.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/24/2013 @ 11:06 amSammy spotted Steve’s fallacy a mile away, mentioning Judith Miller.
But the importance of Miller wasn’t that she was involved in Plamegate. Much more crucial to the colossal failure of the Iraq WMD fraud, she was the key player in Dick Cheney’s attempt to get Congress on board for the invasion.
Miller was fed planted information by Cheney and Libby in “secret”, leading the NYT in essence to declare to the world that WMD had been found. This was the fallen domino that turned skeptics in Congress around.
When Miller stepped down in disgrace, having authored 10 of 12 articles and had LIED to the public about WMD, the NYT apologized for not having vetted the info better. On the one hand you could see why – she was undoubtedly telling her editor the info was coming straight from the White House, but when it turned out to be complete lies, the NYT had two bad choices. Either fall on it’s own sword or reveal to the public that it was Cheney’s office that had provided the lies.
With the war raging, the Times apologized and canned Miller. She eventually went to work for Rupert Murdoch and then Newsmax, a bottom feeding rag that separates gullible end-timers from their money.
As we discovered our kids will be paying in the trillions to pay down the Iraq war debt, it only affirmed that there are no good guys in this story. When the Times chickened out on turning in the OVP for war crimes, it became complicit, and when Obama came into office, he may as well have brought a pink dress and a box of Kotex because he had no interest in rocking the boat.
As the story became public, it only became more and more awkward – no one in the MSM and no one in the government, not even a Democrat-controlled House and super liberal John Conyers chairing the Judiciary committee would make Cheney pay for what’s obviously treason.
The Bush legacy is an open secret, a joke no Republican will touch in a campaign, yet a blot so embarrassing to the government, they don’t have the nerve to tell the Goldstar families why their loved ones died.
Mahalia Cab (c3784d) — 5/28/2013 @ 1:04 pmAnd Mahalia keeps repeating claims long ago discredited.
SPQR (768505) — 5/28/2013 @ 1:07 pmWhat does the left have but lies and slander?
Nothing.
Rob Crawford (e6f27f) — 5/28/2013 @ 1:20 pmMahalia Person, is it true or not true, that Saddam Hussein had already been known to have used nerve gas against the Kurds ?
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 5/28/2013 @ 1:21 pmMahalia Cab, demonstrating she’s too stupid to understand the difference between being found by a judge of being in contempt of court and being named by the DoJ as a co-conspirator in violation of the Espionage Act of 1917 since, well, forever.
Steve57 (9b1cdb) — 5/28/2013 @ 1:37 pmUnfortunately Sammy falls into the same category.
Uhh, no, Sammy. There was never any DoJ accusation against Judith Miller. She was never accused of committing a crime. She was called as a witness against Scooter Libby. When she refused to testify she was found in contempt.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/30/cia.leak/
Seriously, am I dealing with people who are so dense that they think there’s anything that makes what the DoJ did when they accused Rosen of being a member of a criminal conspiracy at all “like” what a federal judge did to Miller when she was “accused” of nothing more than being a witness?
Steve57 (9b1cdb) — 5/28/2013 @ 1:48 pm