Debate Open Thread: The Candidate Must Be the Fact-Checker
I have railed against fact-checkers on this blog many times, so it especially irked me to see this on Hot Air Headlines yesterday:
Independent fact-checkers say their work informs voters and holds politicians accountable. “Campaigns are very aware that fact-checkers are watching them,” said Bill Adair, editor of PolitiFact. PolitiFact’s web traffic has shot up this year and “it’s just gone off the charts on debate nights,” Adair said.
It’s disgusting that these outfits are lionized as actual fact checkers. Let’s look at the respective organizations’ fact-check of the Vice Presidential debate:
Notice anything missing? The Free Beacon did:
Vice President Joe Biden accused Rep. Paul Ryan of putting two wars on the “credit card,” and then suggested he voted against the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
“By the way, they talk about this great recession like it fell out of the sky–like, ‘Oh my goodness, where did it come from?’” Biden said. “It came from this man voting to put two wars on a credit card, at the same time, put a prescription drug plan on the credit card, a trillion dollar tax cut for the very wealthy.”
“I was there, I voted against them,” Biden continued. “I said, no, we can’t afford that.”
Then Sen. Biden voted for the Afghanistan resolution on Sept. 14, 2001 which authorized “the use of United States Armed Forces against those responsible for the recent attacks launched against the United States.”
And on Oct. 11, 2002, Biden voted for a resolution authorizing unilateral military action in Iraq, according to the Washington Post.
It’s nice that the Free Beacon picked this up. And shameful that PolitiFact and FactCheck.org didn’t.
So forget them. But that leads me to a second point.
Paul Ryan should have been all over that. Instead, he just sat there and smiled. He did a good job in the debate generally, but he missed a chance to whack Biden on this issue.
You can’t miss too many of these chances.
Romney is leading by five in swing states, but he can’t get lazy. Tonight is important, and Romney has to be on his game. He has to call out Obama’s lies because Big Media and the Official Fact Checkers will not.
We’ll see what happens.
Ding.
Patterico (255b20) — 10/16/2012 @ 5:45 pmSorry to close out the other thread. I had this post all drafted this morning and forgot to put it up before going to work. I wanted to get this thought out before the debate.
Patterico (255b20) — 10/16/2012 @ 5:46 pmDid I confuse everybody?
Patterico (255b20) — 10/16/2012 @ 5:49 pmMaybe I just have to leave like 10 comments in a row so the recent comments only show this thread.
Patterico (255b20) — 10/16/2012 @ 5:50 pmLike this.
Patterico (255b20) — 10/16/2012 @ 5:51 pmComment by Patterico — 10/16/2012 @ 5:49 pm
Did I confuse everybody?
No. Well, except for that thing about closing out the other thread.
Sammy Finkelman (3bb022) — 10/16/2012 @ 5:51 pmthey’ll figure it out, unless they’re obama supporters.
cc (846867) — 10/16/2012 @ 5:51 pmHow about that Candy Crowley, huh?
Patterico (255b20) — 10/16/2012 @ 5:52 pmSammy,
I just didn’t want two open threads.
What I should have done is direct comments on this post to JD’s thread.
But what I *should* have done is publish this post this morning.
Patterico (255b20) — 10/16/2012 @ 5:54 pmcc,
Heh. An intelligence test to weed out the Obama supporters? I like it.
I should do this every time.
Patterico (255b20) — 10/16/2012 @ 5:55 pmO.K., I am confused, but present!
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 5:56 pmRomney will get the first question.
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 5:58 pmDid Biden play football in college?
JD (43ce10) — 10/16/2012 @ 5:59 pmFelipe,
Welcome.
Patterico (255b20) — 10/16/2012 @ 5:59 pmIt is great to be here.
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:00 pmYou can’t miss too many of these chances.
Paul Ryan missed a lot of them.
Mitigating that, is that’s it’s difficult to study up on that. You wouldn’t know what to study. You can look at statements the opposing candidates have repeatedly made, or that have been used in ads, and even on blogs or on the radio.
But to catch Biden on this, you’d have to know his record.
It wuld have helped to have read a couple of magazine profiles of him, not written this year, but over the course of time, so that you’d know – he voted for the Iraq war (afghanistan everybody did)
Now it is true about Biden that he was against the surge in Iraq. And he wanted to get out sooner. He had this plan for partitioning the country.
Evenb with bin Laden he had to find a special justification for going after him (he praised Obama for knowing we had to do it)
Of course for someone like Biden who makes one misstatement after anotherm, as he did in this debate, you don’t have to catch every one of them. Even catching one quarter or one tenth is something.
Ryan didn’t catch much. He didn’t even stop him when he said the Supreme Court was within one vote or two of OUTLAWING ABORTION!
And as I said he wasn’t really on solid ground in dscussing that contraception lawsuit – maybe he was gradually getting himself together on that issue, but the discussion ended by that time. But he didn’t explain it.
Sammy Finkelman (3bb022) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:01 pmStart of the debate. Radio says hope to get in 13 questions.
Candy Crowley and her team are the only people who have seen the questions.
Sammy Finkelman (3bb022) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:02 pmRomney takes stage center.
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:04 pmHow can they allow that racist, felonious, cancer causing, tax cheating Mormon on stage with the President!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:04 pmIs that Candy Crowley or John Candy?
Romeny is picking up right where he left off.Very good.
Bugg (642d2d) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:04 pmNot nice, Bugg.
Icy (172dc7) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:05 pmTell him Detroit went bankrupt!!!!!
JD (43ce10) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:06 pmObama attempts to draw first blood.
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:07 pmGood jobs in that EVIL private sector.
The fetish about higher education is really sweet. We need more LBGT, Women’s and Black Studies majors instead of electricians,plumbers and mechanics.
Big Government-GOOD!
Bugg (642d2d) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:08 pmObama put Detroit into bankruptcy like Romney recommended but corrupted the process.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:08 pmJust based on the opening, Romney’s off to a good start, O not so much
Joseph D (beda48) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:08 pmCandy gave Romney a Mulligan. Good
nk (875f57) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:09 pm10.7 percent! fact check that Illman.
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:09 pmHe heard you JD,good call!
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:09 pmWhy did thse guys switch ties? Tonight Romney’s blue and Obama red. How are we going to tell them apart?
nk (875f57) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:10 pmObama wants to tax more to “invest.”
Here I thought we had a $16 trillion debt.
Patterico (255b20) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:10 pmRomney whacked him on Detroit. Hard. Obama is playing to MSNBC.
JD (43ce10) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:10 pmobama is the angriest political hack of all time.
mg (e0b08a) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:11 pmWhy does Obama wear a nurse’s watch?
nk (875f57) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:11 pmCandy is being a very active moderator.
Sammy Finkelman (3bb022) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:11 pmOooo gas prices and Sec Chu
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:12 pmAnswer the question Obama.
Patterico (255b20) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:13 pmtwice as far on a gallon of gas. at twice the price, no doubt.
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:13 pmMitt should hit this out of the park. Keystone pipeline.
mg (e0b08a) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:13 pmAnswer the question.
Patterico (255b20) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:13 pmObama called Romney a liar and Crowley wouldn’t let Romney respond.
ropelight (ae008d) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:13 pmWhat horse s##t he answers with.
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:14 pmRomney scores on oil!
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:15 pmRomnwy said that Obama actually took GM into bankruptcy. Obama came back that Romney wanted the wrong kind of bankruptcy – he would have taken them bankrupt without a plan to keep them open.
True, but now he’s saying a different thing than when he said/says Romney wanted GM to go bankrupt.
There’s a possible comeback that he favored creditors different from bankruptcy law and helped only retired union workers.
pensions only of union workers
Sammy Finkelman (3bb022) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:15 pmRomney is hammering him on energy.
JD (43ce10) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:15 pmCriminals! Birds killed!
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:15 pmThis is a a Romney haymaker. Obama will need headgear after this.
Bugg (642d2d) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:15 pmRomney’s smiling, Obama’s not
Joseph D (beda48) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:15 pmBoth talked nonsense about jobs.
There’s never been such a depression that in the end people didnt get jobs.
Long term unemployed a good question but no answer.
Sammy Finkelman (3bb022) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:16 pmI can’t bear to watch. I can’t stand watching this President even score one direct hit. Just want to get to Nov 7.
Rodney King's Spirit (9ce6d4) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:16 pmYes, hit him on the pipeline !
Joseph D (beda48) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:16 pmGood of Candy to mention the price of gas.
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:17 pmCandy just said ‘Answer the question, Obama’.
Icy (172dc7) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:17 pmHer gist is not what the guy asked.
Patterico (255b20) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:17 pmLiar is their new theme.
JD (43ce10) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:17 pmObama just called Romney a liar again.
ropelight (ae008d) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:17 pmOur clean coal goes to china.
mg (e0b08a) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:18 pmObama is on the verge of losing his temper and he is calling Romney a lair. This is “divisive”.
Bugg (642d2d) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:18 pmOh, here wego.
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:18 pmCool, confrontation!
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:18 pmThe president takes Romney’s time
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:19 pmNot true
JD (43ce10) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:19 pmNot true
Answer a question not asked
Is the entirety of Obama’s response, “liar, liar, pants on fire?”
Coldwhite Desiato (d9866b) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:19 pmIs our Affirmative Action President losing so far?
Rodney King's Spirit (9ce6d4) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:19 pmThe GOVERNMENT SHOULD MAKE ALL THE DECISIONS.OIL COMPANIES-BAD.
Bugg (642d2d) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:19 pmEyeball to eyeball and Obama’s going Biden.
ropelight (ae008d) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:19 pmyes mitt.
mg (e0b08a) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:20 pmThe proof is in the price – I like it.
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:20 pmRomney just sat him down.
JD (43ce10) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:20 pmMitt is commanding and backed the bamster down. Expect a Gillete razor themesong
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:21 pmEven Candy Crowley is calling BS on Obama.
Bugg (642d2d) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:21 pmObama: “Booooooosh!”
Icy (172dc7) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:22 pmobama should have to sit in the corner with a dunce hat on.
mg (e0b08a) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:22 pmUh oh…Bamster just hurt himself; said Mitt could drop prices, but thats just bringing back old days
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:22 pmWhen I hear Romney, I think of the Brawny Man.
When I hear Obama, I think of Mr. Whipple.
Coldwhite Desiato (d9866b) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:22 pmCandy tastes the Lehrer treatment
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:23 pmQ about official policy not to lower gas prices – Romney winds up talking about drilling but not on federal land.
Obama: No doubt world demand going up – actually more drilling on public land.
Obama: Romney when Gov Mass said a coal plant kills – he’s tried to be consistent
Oil prod up, nat gas up, cars mor efficient, Can be exported. All of above strategy
Romney: not what you;d done in last 4 years , Cut permits. Oabam: not true More oil. Romne: licenses.
Obama; Leases not used. If want to drill use it or lose it. Romney: prod oil on govt land down 9%. Obama: not true.
Work for the fact checkers.
Romney: L don’t believe you would increase. Proof of strategy is price.
$1.86 to $4. If Obama energy policy working, price would go down. Mentions Keystone pipeline again, offshore drilling.
CC repeats price. Obama price was $1.86 because the economy was on the verge of collapse. Romney might bring down prices because we might be in same mess.
Pipeline: we’ve built pipelines. Wind energy – thousands of people in Iowa and Colo working in wind power. yet Romney would be against it.
Romney gets a chance to speak after a while: “I don’t have policy of stopping wind power” and they are real jobs not phantom.
Sammy Finkelman (3bb022) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:24 pmCrowley is not giving equal time.
Patterico (255b20) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:24 pmSo who is winning so far?
Rodney King's Spirit (9ce6d4) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:25 pmWhat… did I just see 0bama’s right eye twitch?!?!
Colonel Haiku (c57a06) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:25 pmThe ringer just arose and hit Romney with Axelrod’s talking point. Romney is knocking it out of the park.
ropelight (ae008d) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:25 pmWatch the demagoguery and lying from Teh Won.
JD (318f81) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:25 pmObama will bring up 47% here. Mitt should ask if it’s fair that 47% don’t pay taxes. Say knows he misspoke and is man enough to admit it.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:26 pm#70 Romney so far…..Obama keeps talking about the wonderful potential future….nothing about here and now
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:26 pmOn to taxes
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:28 pmI hope Romney calls out the lies Obama just told about cutting taxes.
JD (318f81) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:28 pmI think Romney is much stronger. But I’ve maintained the media knows it didn’t help to come down hard on Obama after #1, so they’ll be all out to proclaim him the winner this time no matter what.
Joseph D (beda48) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:29 pm#84 I can’t watch after the first one. I am 100% invested in the Mormon after disliking him so. Rather I just get the report card with some updates.
Rodney King's Spirit (9ce6d4) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:29 pmMitt speaks to people with respect.
mg (e0b08a) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:30 pmobama speaks with hate.
JD yes…I paid more last year and I’m not close $200K
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:30 pmOh yeah, BO doesn’t understand the tax tables, invest earnings are not taxed same as income!
Romney’s voice seems calm.
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:30 pmI paid more, also, Angelo.
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:32 pmclose up on BO, he is not having fun
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:32 pmSo far it’s an A- for Romney and B for Obama.
ropelight (ae008d) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:32 pmCandy is feeding Obama tactics
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:32 pm5 trillion dollar lie.
JD (318f81) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:32 pmRyan should have caught Biden on the Afghanistan vote — it was unanimous in the Senate and only one member of the House opposed it.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:33 pmHow long before Candy says “Let me interupt you, Mr. President”?
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:33 pmBIG BIRD
JD (318f81) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:33 pmPLANNED PARENTHOOD
Big Bird!!!
Patterico (255b20) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:34 pmCandy nods to Romney abd Obama does not like it. Candy”!?
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:34 pmObama is just making up math as he goes along
JD (318f81) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:34 pmcandy was better from a stranger.
mg (e0b08a) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:35 pmProps to Candy, she did stop the Prez.
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:35 pmIs it wrong to go hoarse yelling at your TV?
Coldwhite Desiato (d9866b) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:35 pmMath!
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:35 pmSay it doesn’t add up now! Oh good… he did 🙂 Whew.
Joseph D (beda48) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:35 pmA horse is a horse of course, of course.
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:36 pmBamm!
EPWJ (2925ff) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:37 pmQ about taxes to Romney
Romney about prices going up – so need tax relief.
Limit deductions at high end. Top 5% of taxpayers will pay 60% of the income tax collected.
Romney – maybe maximum $25,000 deductions (on Schedule A) . He said that in the first debate but Ryan didn’t notice.
Q. I’d have State and local income taxes? They also come under the $25,000 ceiling?
Obama: his philosophy on taxes. Midddle class and people rying – tax custs middle class families he has cut taxes. He wants to continue them – not the payroll tax cut!
98% not see tax increase Ready to sign now Gov Romney’s allies in Congress holding hostage.
Romney – fundamentally disagree. Romney told 60 min his tax rate fair because grows the economy What grows the economy is tax cuts lower income people and tax credits
Romney said tax cuts not tax rate cuts.
Romney: Top 5% will continue to pay 60% If rates down small business can keep more capital.
Unemployment high. His 5 pt plan helps the economy.
CC: not allow top 5% have a tax cut. Obama says cost of lowering rates along with eliminating estate tax costs $5 trillion. 2 trillion more Bush tax cust total $8 trillion.
When asked which deductions, can’t tell you.
Obama already taken cap gains off the board No specifics from ZRomney except Big Bird and Planned Parenthood.
Romney was an investor. You wouldn’t have taken such a sketchy deal.
Either this blows up the deficit or (wealthy indv oly pay 4%)
Nobody believes this actually adds up.
CC: if this shouldn’t add up, Romney: of couurse they add up. I ran businesses Olympics state of Mass – balanced those budget.
Talking about his plan in way that compleyly foreign to what it is. ZObama record bad. Road to Greece.
$5 trillion because offsetting – Obama wants to say he is counting that.
Romney again wants to mention that $25,000 maximum deduction.,
Sammy Finkelman (d8778d) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:37 pmLILLY LEDBETTER
JD (318f81) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:37 pmObama will bring up 47% here. Mitt should ask if it’s fair that 47% don’t pay taxes. Say knows he misspoke and is man enough to admit it.
Comment by daleyrocks
Romney should also allude to obama’s statement about “people clinging to their guns and religion’ and mention that sometimes folks don’t say things very artfully.
Colonel Haiku (c57a06) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:37 pmWhy doesn’t Romney just say the reason the debt is so high is because the government spends too much!
Ag80 (b2c81f) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:37 pmQ: women make 72% of what men make….no where I’ve ever worked
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:38 pmExpanded Pell grants – AAAnd foodstamps.
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:39 pmWho ya gonna believe, the deficit and debt king, aka President Downgrade, or me?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:39 pm“Workplace inequaiity” or what ever is more pressing than illegal immigration.Thanks, Candy.
Bugg (642d2d) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:40 pmObama calls the FALSE assertion that women earning 72 cents for every dollar a man earns “a great question”.
Icy (172dc7) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:40 pmOy!
Hit Obama on pay disparities in White House!
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:40 pmCall out OBarcky on White House pay for women.
JD (318f81) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:41 pmRomney said he went out of the way to find women for his Cabinet. And he had more women in senior leadership positions than any state in America. and he was flexible with hours.
Wants to make it easier for women – economy so strong employers will give flexible work schedule.
Sammy Finkelman (de7af0) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:42 pmVote like your lady parts depend on it!!!!!!!!!!!!
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:42 pmJD,
Who what is lily ledbetter
EPWJ (2925ff) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:42 pmThis is a nonsense question. What a waste of freaking time given our fiscal mess.
Bugg (642d2d) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:43 pmLily Ledbetter scam! What happened to equal pay act?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:43 pmnever mind its a bill – a meaningless bill
you know how women succeed in the workplace?
they work hard and achieve
EPWJ (2925ff) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:43 pmRomney’s may be the best republican response to this question i’ve ever heard. it’s a republican response, and I’m biased (and male) but i really like it. It’s what i believe.
Joseph D (beda48) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:43 pmBecause, you see, if women want to work, they should kill their kid.
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:43 pmCONTRACEPTION
JD (318f81) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:43 pmRUBBERS
UTERUSES
OMG, Lady Parts!
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:43 pmBO snuck in women’s health and birth control (Planned Parenthood)
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:44 pmPlease Governor say 31-year old professional student women do not need their employer nor government to procure birth control and pay for abortion.
Bugg (642d2d) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:44 pmObama: Romney would not say if he supported Lilly Ledbetter bill.
Obama – Romney comfortable politicians making decisions. Obama says employers should not make decision about contraceptive coverage.
This is a pocketbook issue. Adds mammograms, child care. Says these are not just women;s issues, – family issues economic issues.
Sammy Finkelman (de7af0) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:44 pmGuilty by association.
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:45 pmI am undecided. BUSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHH
JD (318f81) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:45 pmNow, the blame Bush ringer makes an appearance.
ropelight (ae008d) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:45 pmBuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuush!
EPWJ (2925ff) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:45 pmKatz a plant – leaves growing out of her ears.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:45 pmLike Obama’s daughters won’t have chances far above and beyond what the vast majority of people, let alone “women.”
Coldwhite Desiato (d9866b) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:46 pmI don’t see Bush onstage.
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:46 pmAn “undecided” voter. Yeah right.
Ag80 (b2c81f) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:46 pmBO tries to have Mitt shutdown…Candy slammed BO
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:46 pmYes, the Bush card, by an “Undecided Voter”.
nk (875f57) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:46 pmObama losing badl – whining about time keeping may – may come across to some as – please dont let that man speak!
EPWJ (2925ff) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:47 pmAbsolute ridiculous claim to be undecided voter.
JD (318f81) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:48 pmQ. Bith you and Pres Bush rep – what’s the biggest diff between you and GW Bush
Says he doesn’t believe bureac=rats or employers tell women not to use contraception.
Romney differences: technology improved, more energy now. More trade agreements. Diff from Bush because opposes deficits. More help for small business.
Obamacare keeps small business
Bush very diff time.
Sammy Finkelman (de7af0) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:48 pmBO is calling the Bush card…he friggin did it Sheesh what a weakling
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:49 pmSo far no Libya, no foreig policy except trade.
Sammy Finkelman (de7af0) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:49 pmObama just comes off as petulant when he addresses Romney.
JD (318f81) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:49 pmObama sent more stimulus money to China than Romney ever invested there.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:50 pmI may be a partisan, “decided” voter but to me, Romney seems very calm and conversational. Obama seems angry and confrontational.
Coldwhite Desiato (d9866b) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:50 pmBUSH=EEEEEVVVVVVIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLL!
If coffee klatch/Barbra Streisand fan Susan Katz is undecided I’m a ballerina.What crap.
Bugg (642d2d) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:50 pmRomney an extremist!
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:51 pmBO sez Mitt more extreme than Bush on social issues
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:51 pmI loved you bunches in 2008. I love you just a little less today.
JD (318f81) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:51 pmDid Romney just throw Bush under the bus? Shocker!!
The Emperor (209fdf) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:52 pmObama: Romney invesed in China. How can he be tough n China when he invested in company that builds surveillance equip on China to spy on its citizens,.
Obama: Romney is diff from Bush. Bush did not want cut funds Planned Parenthood. Bush believed in comprehnsive immigration reform. Romney extreme on social policy
Sammy Finkelman (de7af0) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:52 pmMike Jones is not happy.
Bugg (642d2d) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:52 pmFootball spiked.
Icy (172dc7) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:52 pmObama said he has gone after Al Qaeda like never before and Osama bin Laden is dead.
Sammy Finkelman (de7af0) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:52 pmWhere are these 5 million jobs anyway?
Ag80 (b2c81f) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:53 pmWhat plan has Obama put forward? Where is it?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:53 pm161 At Taco Bell
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:53 pmobama is on the verge of a free fall.
mg (e0b08a) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:53 pmIt was for lack of staying off the dang golf course.
Ag80 (b2c81f) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:53 pmA lot of “us” are struggling, yes. That “us” doesn’t include you and Michelle Antoinette.
Coldwhite Desiato (d9866b) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:53 pmThe Emperor is all SHOCKA that Romney isn’t a Bush clone.
Icy (172dc7) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:53 pmObama got 25 of the first 45 minutes. Heyo.
Joseph D (beda48) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:54 pmobama’s heart looks like it could pop out of his chest.
mg (e0b08a) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:55 pmThe only thing Romney stands for is to pee.
Still, love those criss-stage, depth-of-field CNN camera angles when Sir Willard is perched on his first bar stool.
It’s Mini-Mitt.
DCSCA (9d1bb3) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:55 pmMitt just slipped in the stilleto between BO’s ribs
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:55 pm“We’re going to double auto mileage because I legislated it.”
Yeah!
Free stuff!
AZ Bob (1c9631) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:55 pmBODYSLAM
JD (318f81) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:56 pmFinally, foodstamps
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:56 pmIMP – step away from the bong
JD (318f81) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:56 pmRomney also mentioned immigration in passing. A lot of things mentioned.
Sammy Finkelman (de7af0) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:56 pmIf I were Romney, I would bring up the 47 percent and cut off Obama at the pass.
Ag80 (b2c81f) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:57 pmRomney: Reagan recovery was better
Sammy Finkelman (de7af0) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:57 pmJD, if Obama gets a third term, he’ll give everyone FREE WEED!
Coldwhite Desiato (d9866b) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:57 pmBody blows landing
Icy (172dc7) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:57 pmI believe Foreign Policy is the theme for next debate
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:58 pmImmigration now
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:58 pmWe need more plants like this one!
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:59 pmHas anyone noticed just how many undecided African-Americans there are in the audience? Must be every last undecided black in Nassau County if the polls are right.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 10/16/2012 @ 6:59 pmVIsas for people to compete with our own kids-bad idea, Mitt. You cannot knock out rungs on the labor scale, not at the bottom nor out the top, and pretend you’re “helping” middle class people to find good jobs.
Bugg (642d2d) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:00 pmKevin-
Apparently Hempstead and Roosevelt, LI are filled with undecideds. What a joke.
Bugg (642d2d) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:02 pmTalk about Fast and Furious is he wants to talk about the border
JD (318f81) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:02 pmObama’s economy worked great for slowing illegal immigration, so there is that.
Ag80 (b2c81f) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:02 pmMitt is smooth and convincing tonight.
mg (e0b08a) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:02 pmWhy is Obama suing states that want to make their borders safe?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:02 pmCrowley is as bad I thought she’d be.
SPQR (768505) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:02 pmThey’re keeping track!
Patterico (8b3905) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:03 pmWill Obama deport habitual DWi criminal Uncle Obango?
Bugg (642d2d) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:03 pmThey’re just not giving equal time.
Patterico (8b3905) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:03 pmFlow of “undocumented workers” lowest in 40 years – murdering gunrunners, not so much.
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:03 pmBO wants to help illegals think they are Americans
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:03 pmShe’s bad.
Patterico (8b3905) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:03 pmObama misrepresents Arizona law.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:03 pmHere we go with the “My daughter” again.
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:04 pmObama just told an outright lie about Arizona’s SB 1070 law.
Icy (172dc7) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:04 pmEveil racist Whitey the Cop still roams the land, acting stupidly. Some even stop illegal drunkards from Kenya driving with a load on.
Bugg (642d2d) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:04 pmMitt scores again on BO broken promises
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:05 pmCrowley just let’s Obama go and go and go.
JD (318f81) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:05 pmFight, fight, fight!
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:07 pmIf I were a democratic fact checker right now – I would be firing up my resume for a new line of work
EPWJ (2925ff) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:08 pmEqual time, Candy. Equal time.
Joseph D (beda48) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:08 pmLol, Obama, “lets not talk about [MY Chinese investments]”
Coldwhite Desiato (d9866b) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:08 pmImmigration question,
Rmney wants to filibuster. Talk in genral. Welcomelegal immigrants. Wants streamlined. Shouldn’t have to hire alawyer to figure out how to get into this country legally. Green card stapled to diploma. People who come illegally take place of people waiting in line. (really?)
Not driver;s licenses.
the kids. Pathway to become a permanent resdint. Military service is one way.
Obama promised to file a bill first year. He didn’t do it. Why did he fail to even promote legslation.
Obama: nation of immig – all understand what this country has become because talent from all over workd come do. Also nation of laws. Have done everything he cn on his own.
Steamlined legal immigration system. (he didn) More border patrol, flow lower than in 40 years. Do it smartly go after gnagbangers nbot students or people trying to figure out how to feed their families. Young people think of themselves as Americans – done admnistratively.
Romney says wants to hekp thes epeople to but sadd=id he would veto Dream act. Said encourage self deportation. Arizona law. Check [papers. I don’t want to empower somebody to check papers
wqhen Romney says he didn’t try not true. Sat down. Very hard to support comp immig if standard bearer said not interested.
Romney did not say ariz law was a model in that aspect – only e-verify. I asked a Q – he was asked on Univision. Doesn’t answwer. I am lad yyou thought I was the standard bearer 4 years ago (McCain was)
elf-deportation not going to round up – make own choice – not in favor of rounding up. m in favor if crimes.
Wants to go back to that Chinese investment.
Blind trust. I understand they do include. Obama: have you looked at your pension. Also ovrseas Chinsse Caymans trust,
Obama: his top adviser on immig is the guy who esigned that Ariz law.
Obama folks around works who see America as land of promise.
Doesn’t want this a divisive political siissue (unlike health care)
Sammy Finkelman (3bb022) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:08 pmcrowley is awful
mg (e0b08a) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:08 pmObama is much better in this debate than in the last one…
The Emperor (209fdf) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:08 pmObama: we’ll get it done THIS time!!!
Coldwhite Desiato (d9866b) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:09 pmHe called Kerry Karen.
Now he will lie about Libya.
JD (318f81) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:09 pmLibya . . . finally.
Icy (172dc7) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:09 pmBenghazi!
nk (875f57) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:09 pmobama is harms way.
mg (e0b08a) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:09 pmFirst of all let me (not answer your question)
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:09 pm210…
awfully low bar there…
cc (846867) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:09 pmObama:
Let me now dodge the Benghazi question.
Ag80 (b2c81f) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:09 pmObama:
Let me now dodge the Benghazi question.
Ag80 (b2c81f) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:09 pm#210 if better means he’s not asleep, yeah ok
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:10 pmLibya question. Obama talks about other things than asked.
Sammy Finkelman (3bb022) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:10 pmand on healthcare,taxes,school tuition, energy etc etc
EPWJ (2925ff) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:10 pmFox is on ten-second delay from CNN.
nk (875f57) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:10 pmObama is running away from a very simple question as fast as he can. Nothingness, nonsense, balderdash.
Lying about why this happened is making political points.
Bugg (642d2d) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:10 pmNumber 4, aaaaaaaaaaaaaand blame it all on a YouTube video.
Coldwhite Desiato (d9866b) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:11 pmHe has not answered the question.
JD (318f81) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:11 pm@The Emperor, MSNBC will shout from the rooftops how “great” Obama was. But it’s a win for Romney among the voters who still have yet to decide, however few they may be.
Joseph D (beda48) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:11 pmObama: “What happened”?
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:11 pmHe’s NOT answering the question that Kerry asked AT ALL.
Icy (172dc7) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:11 pmObama:
Unless a Las Vegas fundraiser gets in the way.
Ag80 (b2c81f) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:11 pmObama sounds about as tough as my Shih Tzu.
About.
Coldwhite Desiato (d9866b) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:11 pmObama talks about some of his bad decisions like they were good.
Said 3 things he did when it happened in Benghazi
Sammy Finkelman (3bb022) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:12 pmJust because it’s Fox, it does not mean it’s on our side.
nk (875f57) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:12 pmBingo! Bengazi
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:13 pmC-span here.
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:13 pmnot going to briefings should be mentioned.
mg (e0b08a) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:13 pmGreat answer from Romney on Lybia
Joseph D (beda48) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:13 pmPayback for “My Pet goat”
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:13 pmRomney sort of stumbling
Sammy Finkelman (3bb022) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:14 pmAgree, mg, hit Obama for not going to briefings. So much to hit though, must’ve slipped his mind.
Joseph D (beda48) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:14 pmDoes the buck stop with Sec Stae?
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:14 pmThis is why Hillary fell on her sword. He pays her back now.
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:14 pmWhy did you blame it on a YouTube video?
JD (318f81) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:14 pmHillary taking responsibility. Bravo, Candy.
nk (875f57) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:15 pmObama did not answer the question about the reduced security.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:15 pmObama:
Let me now dodge the Clinton-Libya question.
Ag80 (b2c81f) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:15 pmI am offended. Wah. I don’t play politics. Bull facking shlt
JD (318f81) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:15 pmBO all indignant now…tough guy
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:16 pmObama always responsible.
Again repeats going to find out what happened and hunt them down.
Suggestion that anybody on his team would play politics or mislead is offensive.
Sammy Finkelman (3bb022) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:16 pmI call Candy the winner, thus far.
nk (875f57) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:16 pmCandy carries watrer!
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:16 pmAct of terror is word parsing. Different than attack by terrorists.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:16 pmSorry Obama, evidence indicates otherwise.
Ag80 (b2c81f) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:16 pmAll bluster
Icy (172dc7) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:16 pmomney doesn’t know Obama backtracked.
Sammy Finkelman (3bb022) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:16 pmthe magic rose garden
EPWJ (2925ff) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:17 pmI want to switch topics to make sure everyone gets their questions answered.
JD (318f81) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:17 pmThey actually were stronger the enxt day than later. Romney is totally confused.
Sammy Finkelman (3bb022) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:17 pmIsn’t it Romney’s turn for a question?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:17 pmRomney should have known what Obama said. I did.
It was not good for Obama, and Romney could have made that point if he knew what Obama had said and the context.
Disappointing exchange.
Patterico (8b3905) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:17 pmThis is not Romney’s night.
The Emperor (209fdf) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:17 pmCandy carries a lot of water. Politically speaking of course.
Ag80 (b2c81f) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:17 pmAKs!!!!
nk (875f57) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:17 pm2nd amendment
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:18 pmHit him on F&F.
JD (318f81) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:18 pmRight.
Romney should have been able to make that point, but instead he didn’t know what the other side is saying and how they have defended Obama.
Arg.
OK, move on, not the end of the world.
Patterico (8b3905) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:18 pmDo Presidents actually go around comforting gunshot victims?
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:19 pmDamn well better.
Patterico (8b3905) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:19 pm“Romney is totally confused.”
Sammy – No, Obama is playing word games as was Carney in press briefings.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:19 pmTell Obama’s record on gun rights.
JD (318f81) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:19 pmAgree Patterico.
Joseph D (beda48) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:19 pmA man who regularly breaks bread with rappers and did nothing in Chicago has some pair to talk like this. This is another Dem plant.
Bugg (642d2d) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:20 pmObama, asshole, there is no weapon that was not used by soldiers first, ever.
nk (875f57) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:20 pmObama said he shares the questioner’s belief on controlling assault weapons. HOW does he know what her belief is?
Icy (172dc7) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:20 pmCrowley makes her bias known. 0bama blamed it on a video for approximately 14 days.
Colonel Haiku (c57a06) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:20 pmOffensive suggestion, you mean like covering up Fast and Furious.
If worried about semiauto weapons, why ship them to Mexico?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:21 pmFAST.
AND.
FURIOUS.
Patterico (8b3905) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:21 pmEducation. NRA and ROTC taught me guns.
nk (875f57) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:21 pmTHERE you go.
Patterico (8b3905) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:21 pmF and F!!!!
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:21 pmBLAMMO
JD (318f81) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:22 pmHe got there, Patterico. Strong.
nk (875f57) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:22 pmMy dad agrees with you, Bugg.
Icy (172dc7) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:22 pmCandy cuts Mitt off from FandF
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:23 pmThey were not banned before they were banned, Candy.
nk (875f57) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:24 pmthis can’t end quick enough.
mg (e0b08a) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:24 pmShe’s done this kind of thing all night.
Patterico (8b3905) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:24 pmoooo…bad bad NRA
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:24 pmRomney’s not explaining himself well tonight.
We’re screwed.
Alan (098693) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:24 pmChicago and DC have the most restrictive gun laws. And more gun violence than anywhere else. Obama will not discuss F&F at all.
“Knowledge is good.” Obama
Bugg (642d2d) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:24 pmWe can make a difference by walking these weapons into Mexico.
Patterico (8b3905) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:24 pmLook, squirrels!
nk (875f57) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:24 pmIs this a disaster or just a somewhat bad night? Assessment.
Patterico (8b3905) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:25 pmEducation, training, infrastructure and lady parts!
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:25 pm#289 Mitt is doing fine…go to bed
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:25 pmOh, if it’s IMPORTANT then talk on!
Patterico (8b3905) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:25 pmSQUIRRELS!!!!!!!!!
JD (318f81) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:25 pmDisaster.
Alan (098693) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:25 pmObama runs over Candy like a kid on a bike runs over worms.
Bugg (642d2d) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:26 pm#293 For whom?
Rodney King's Spirit (9ce6d4) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:26 pmSomewhat bad night, then.
Patterico (8b3905) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:26 pmThe name Candy does not inspire authority. Unless she’s getting paid to dance. Then she’s in charge.
Birdbath (716828) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:26 pmWell, I think it is a mess, for sure.
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:26 pmObama should not be too professorial here. He is taking too much time.. That is risky.
The Emperor (209fdf) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:26 pmRomney is totally confused.”
Comment by daleyrocks — 10/16/2012 @ 7:19 pm
Sammy – No, Obama is playing word games as was Carney in press briefing
Well, you do have the fact that something perpetrated by a mob can also be called an act of terrorism.
But the fact is as time went on, the administration was going more and more on to the idea this was related to the video.
Sammy Finkelman (3bb022) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:26 pmUnderstand I was picking up kids and had to listen to the first 45-50 minutes on the radio. And reception wasn’t always great.
Right now Mitt seems a little off.
Patterico (8b3905) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:27 pmThis does not strike me as anything close to a disaster.
JD (318f81) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:27 pmRomney did give a good rebuttal on investments. Obama knew what was coming – did not want to talk about his own investments. There’s a couple of rounds that he won.
Sammy Finkelman (3bb022) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:27 pmRomney is really making some points on trade. Not that I think that people pay attention to that.
Ag80 (b2c81f) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:28 pmIt would have been pretty difficult for BO to do as bad as 1st time. He’s awake this time
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:28 pmRomney again treats the worst problem from China to be currency manipulation. This is all wrong.
Sammy Finkelman (3bb022) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:28 pmBad night for Obama. He has nothing concrete for the future. Just more of the same.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:28 pmWatch the blizzard of demagoguery on outsourcing from President Downgrade.
JD (318f81) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:29 pmThe debate is a mess, is what I mean.
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:29 pmDisaster for who? Not for Romney by any means. It’s a slow burn for Obama. But the media probably will clamor for an O win.
Joseph D (beda48) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:29 pmOutsourcing is a lie for both parties.
Harley got protectionism and is now only assembled in Detroit from Chinese-manufactured parts.
nk (875f57) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:29 pmTo me, it boils down to this:
OBAMA: Liar, liar! George Bush!
ROMNEY: Not true, here’s why, here’s what I’ll do.
Romney’s had a couple unsmooth answers but at least hes talking TO the audience.
Obama just seems angry and a lecturer.
Coldwhite Desiato (d9866b) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:30 pmObama little by little looks less and less credible as a leader.
Joseph D (beda48) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:30 pmI get better reception on radio than on television.
This must be on bunch of stations. If radio reception is bad, try a different station.
Sammy Finkelman (3bb022) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:30 pmObama did much better – but the problem is that his msg sucks – people are going to look at the fact that 4more years are going to suck
EPWJ (2925ff) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:31 pmGood. I was just getting mad at Romney’s weakness on a couple of questions in a row, I think,
Patterico (8b3905) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:31 pmThere is an anger in Obama right below the surface that does not strike me as a particularly pleasant trait. Doubt it’s going to play well. And the simple fact remains they stuck with the Muhammad video no sense for 2 weeks.
Bugg (642d2d) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:31 pmAnother point, Obama is great at things he’s GOING to do.
Coldwhite Desiato (d9866b) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:31 pm“Well, you do have the fact that something perpetrated by a mob can also be called an act of terrorism.”
Sammy – Act of Terror, not act of terrorism. Act of terror as defined by White House is killing of innocent civilians. Get with the program.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:32 pmMitt seems like a good seatmate on a long flight….Obama, not
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:32 pmYou know, people in China now are smuggling money out of the country.
Sammy Finkelman (3bb022) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:32 pmSo Obama says he will do what Romney says he will do except he hasn’t done it. But he will!
Ag80 (b2c81f) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:32 pmThis stuff about China holding down the value of their currency is a bit of a laugh given that the Fed has done much the same thing.
Patterico (8b3905) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:33 pmFunny, I think Obama did OK. My wife says he came off as Joe Biden Jr. Interesting.
Ag80 (b2c81f) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:33 pmThat’s not why China has the manufacturing jobs. It’s minimum wage, regulation, etc.
Duh.
Patterico (8b3905) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:34 pmOne of the reasons iPhone and iPad are made in China was because it was the only place that Steve Jobs could find a scratch proof touchpad.
nk (875f57) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:34 pmRomney aaas s not answering about wage differentials between here and China.
Sammy Finkelman (3bb022) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:34 pmDoing a variation on his “you didn’t build that” routine.
Icy (172dc7) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:34 pmWho ever started the idea that government spending is an “investment” needs to be hit off the head with a very hard object repeatedly until he or she stops breathing.
Bugg (642d2d) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:35 pmI just came in and turned it on, and heard Romney talking about imposing tariffs on China?! Supposedly because he’ll designate it as a “currency manipulator”, whatever that means? WTF? This is a Republican?!
Milhouse (15b6fd) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:35 pmO did better than the first (how could he not?) but EPWJ is right — people are going to look at the fact that 4 more years are going to suck.
Joseph D (beda48) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:35 pm#334 Second that!
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:36 pmSorry. Harleys are *assembled in Milwaukee*.
nk (875f57) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:36 pmRomney seems tired. He needs redbull.
The Emperor (209fdf) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:37 pmRomney couldn’t answer the question about how he was misperceived. Unprepred for it.
Sammy Finkelman (3bb022) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:37 pmNow we come to Obama lies.
nk (875f57) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:37 pm#340 Disagree.
Rodney King's Spirit (9ce6d4) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:37 pmMitt should’ve pointed out that 70% of the cars GM makes are manufactured out of the USA.
Colonel Haiku (c57a06) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:38 pmObama has many more prepared lines. Not necessarily any relation to reality.
Sammy Finkelman (3bb022) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:38 pmObama did do better. Only thing he could do. And he saved the 47% for now.
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:38 pmOr Obama truths. Work your ass off and then give all you make to those who don’t.
nk (875f57) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:38 pmBamster isn’t answering the question….he’s bringing up the 47%
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:38 pmOkay Sammy, first – what money – second – a source
third – have you ever set foot outside the country?
EPWJ (2925ff) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:38 pmRomny wins, but not decisively. Obama delivers an uneven and uninspired performance that will suffer from subsequent examination.
ropelight (ae008d) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:39 pmObama finishes about how wrong Romney was about 47%. Romney can no longer reply
Sammy Finkelman (3bb022) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:39 pmnotice no one clapped
they did boo obama twice though
EPWJ (2925ff) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:39 pmObama won!
The Emperor (209fdf) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:39 pm# 340 I don’t agree Sammy.
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:39 pmWhere are these different sets of rules Obama keeps imagining?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:39 pmSo that was the closing statement?
Nothing like interrupting the candidate’s closing statement, Candy.
Patterico (8b3905) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:40 pmIt was a popularity contest to win Candy’s approval, and Obama was predestined to win.
Patterico (8b3905) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:40 pmI don’t think people learned anything new. It comes down to do you want government to pat you on the head and let it do everything for you vs. doing things on your own.
Anyone who is actually planning to vote has already decided.
Ag80 (b2c81f) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:40 pmObama did do better, so what? He was awake this time…again so what? He still is pie in the sky and sez nothing of substance other than I’ll get to it
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:41 pmropelight
too many lies by Obama – he needed a strong win – at best – he has a mild loss – which is going to get bigger as you said under fact checking
EPWJ (2925ff) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:41 pmI told you that Romney should have pre-empted the 47 percent crap.
Ag80 (b2c81f) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:42 pmRomney did great. The attacks were expected. His counterattacks succeeded.
Obama was hackneyed Obama cliche.
Candy exceeded expectations.
nk (875f57) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:42 pmRomney won. Clearly.
Joseph D (beda48) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:42 pmBret Baier is now reading the Obama quote.
And making the point that Obama refused to call it terrorism, and referred to the video a million times.
ROMNEY is the person who should have done all that.
He should have KNOWN all this.
Patterico (8b3905) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:43 pmFirst fact check – obama lied about the rose garden speech
going to hurt
EPWJ (2925ff) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:43 pmMSNBC gave it STRONGLY to Obama. But then, MSNBC also claimed that Romney was snipping at the moderator and that Romney was the one pushing the clock and trying to walk over the moderator…
Personally, I think it was about equal.
ChimpZilla (4cbcb0) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:43 pmI meant BO did better than 1st debate, not that he did better than Mitt tonite
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:43 pm“Romney aaas s not answering about wage differentials between here and China.”
Sammy – As bad as Obama ducked reduced Libya security question?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:44 pmCrissy Mathews just claimed that there was a protest of Mohammed video in Benghazi.
JD (318f81) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:44 pmIn the end, Obama is still stuck with his record, Hume points out.
Indeed.
Patterico (8b3905) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:44 pmThe time breakdown:
Obama 3 minutes more than Romney.
That was obvious.
Thanks, Candy.
Patterico (8b3905) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:45 pmDo people think Obama did better because he was a bigger asshole, like Biden was, than the first time?
Is rudeness now the gold standard for effectiveness?
Patterico (8b3905) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:46 pmIt’s going to be played as a Obama win, but at best it might be a draw. I’m in the tank for Romney, though.
Ag80 (b2c81f) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:46 pmPat
Romney looked like he was searching for something – I think he missed his opportunity but he did set it up for fact checking
People are more concerned about the economy
EPWJ (2925ff) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:47 pmYes, if you thought it was an act of terror, why send out Rice to say video video video?
But Romney didn’t know he had said it.
Hume is exactly right.
ARG.
Patterico (8b3905) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:47 pmWell, Patterico, we did built up expectations that Candy would not be sweet. We’re we wrong?
nk (875f57) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:47 pm#371 He was better because he engaged to some degree; first time he skated, was bored and was imperious
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:50 pmObama is of weak character and is used to having minions do his fighting; he is learning
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:51 pmI got s*** the last time for saying Obama won, on posture, demeanor, and reasonance of voice. This time, Romney matched him on all three and beat him on substance.
nk (875f57) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:51 pmInteresting Fox news analysis gal sez both were bullies and women aren’t pleased with either
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:52 pmNothing men do pleases women, Angelo.
Some things pleasure them.
nk (875f57) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:55 pmYou are not nk?
AZ Bob (1c9631) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:55 pmObama found his inner Biden.
AZ Bob (1c9631) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:56 pmYou guys are just whiners. Obama does better you blame the moderator, Romney wins the media is unbiased.
The Emperor (209fdf) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:56 pmObama and the moderator won by a hair?
AZ Bob (1c9631) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:56 pmBut does help from the moderator really pay off?
AZ Bob (1c9631) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:57 pmI don’t think anyone changed their mind based on this debate. I think very few of the people that asked questions were actually undecided. I voted for you in 2008 and now I want to vote for you again, make me feel good about that. Bush!!!!!
JD (318f81) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:57 pmNK, oh yeah….If Romney wins I hope I still have a marriage….partially, not wholly said in jest
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:58 pmBret Baier is now reading the Obama quote.
And making the point that Obama refused to call it terrorism, and referred to the video a million times.
ROMNEY is the person who should have done all that.
He should have KNOWN all this.
More to the point, Crowley shouldn’t have interjected falsehoods into the debate. SHe owes Romney an on-air apology and tonight.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:58 pmWho’s whining? Obama did do better. He could not have done worse than last time. That doesn’t mean he won unless you believe that low expectations elevate soft ideas.
Ag80 (b2c81f) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:59 pmObama was better than the last debate. Mitt still won.
Icy (172dc7) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:59 pm#383, Obama according to what I am reading did not win. Romney similar to Ryan — 5-10 point win.
Rodney King's Spirit (9ce6d4) — 10/16/2012 @ 7:59 pmYou guys are just whiners. Obama does better you blame the moderator, Romney wins the media is unbiased.
You have an unfailing ability to be flat out wrong.
JD (318f81) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:00 pmWinner: Romney.
Patricia (e1d89d) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:00 pm2nd: Obama.
Honorable Mentions: Crowley, because she wasn’t as bad as Raddatz, and “meeting coffins” the new standard for presidentiality, I guess.
Krauthammer responds to the women/bully thing. “Men love this stuff”, “Frazier Ali again”
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:01 pmWho ever started the idea that government spending is an “investment” needs to be hit off the head with a very hard object repeatedly until he or she stops breathing.
I first started hearing that garbage during the Clinton Administration. Perhaps it dates back farther, but I would venture to guess that Clinton popularized it.
JVW (f5695c) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:02 pmROMNEY is the person who should have done all that.
He should have KNOWN all this.
More to the point, Crowley shouldn’t have interjected falsehoods into the debate. SHe owes Romney an on-air apology and tonight.
Comment by Kevin M
All true, but Romney did point out that 0bama’s on the record with another lie about Libya and his role.
Colonel Haiku (c57a06) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:02 pmI am out of here. G’night.
Felipe (3243af) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:03 pmCrowley was a disaster. From her ill fitting and unflattering blazer to her absolute shameless bias leading her moderating performance. I actually found myself completely distracted by her interruptions, uneven interjections, and especially her handing the president gift-wrapped setups.
Dana (292dcf) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:03 pmYes, if you thought it was an act of terror, why send out Rice to say video video video?
But Romney didn’t know he had said it.
He had just started talking about that when Crowley cut him off.
Colonel Haiku (c57a06) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:05 pmCNN seems to be baking the results….
Rodney King's Spirit (9ce6d4) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:07 pm@jd, who won?
The Emperor (6f94ec) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:07 pmCrowley justified all the concerns about her as moderator. She cut Romney off repeatedly after Obama lied and even argued Obama’s point about the Benghazi scandal. She told Romney that Obama had said the attack was terrorism on the 12th when that is not true.
Mike K (326cba) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:09 pm#401 Crowley did not help the President with her partisan crap … we will see however.
Rodney King's Spirit (9ce6d4) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:09 pmm her ill fitting and unflattering blazer
It took me fifty years to realize that women notice such things. 😉
nk (875f57) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:10 pm#402 All points that can be addressed next week.
Point is if FP is important and you are undecided — next week is for Romney to shine.
Rodney King's Spirit (9ce6d4) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:10 pmThe transcript from the Rose Garden is available. He references the denigration fo Mohammed in the YouTube video in the 4th paragraph, act of terror in the 10th.
JD (318f81) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:11 pm381.You are not nk?
Comment by AZ Bob — 10/16/2012 @ 7:55 pm
I think I am. But why do you ask?
nk (875f57) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:12 pmLuntz pointing out what it seems. Obama talking BS and attacking.
Rodney King's Spirit (9ce6d4) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:12 pmnk, that’s what we notice first.
btw,
CBS Obama won the debate 37-30 overall, but Romney won on the economy by 65-34.
Dana (292dcf) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:12 pmThese undecideds are not as stupid as I thought.
Rodney King's Spirit (9ce6d4) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:13 pm@Chimperor/lovie – Obama did better than last time, which is like saying someone is smarter than you. I think that nobody changed their mind based on tonight, and worst case scenario, it was a draw.
JD (318f81) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:14 pmAlthouse: ‘9:19: Romney, in command, questions Obama about what he said the day after the attack in the Rose Garden. “You said it was an act of terror?” Romney asks twice. After the first time, Obama says “That’s what I said.” After the second time, Romney gives him a penetrating look. There’s a pause. Romney raises his eyebrows in a way that seems to repeat the question again. “It was not a spontaneous demonstration? Is that what your saying?” Obama bows his head. His eyes are closed. Obama looks up and with a little smile says: “Please proceed Governor.” Romney gestures with his hand. “I wanted to make sure we get that for the record, because it took the President 14 days before he called the attack in Benghazi and act of terror.” Obama says “Get the transcript,” and Crowley helps Obama by saying “He did in fact, sir… He did in fact call it an act of terror. It did as well take 2 weeks or so for the whole idea of there being a riot out there about this tape to come out, you’re correct about that.” Jeez, Crowley is way overparticipating! And the audience applauds her!’
Colonel Haiku (c57a06) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:14 pmLuntz putting Obama to bed.
Rodney King's Spirit (9ce6d4) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:14 pmAlthouse: “Crowley helps Obama by saying ‘He did in fact, sir… He did in fact call it an act of terror.'”
For 10 days Obama and his team said the death of the Ambassador and three more Americans was a result of a natural and probably reaction to a video.
Crowley owes the country an apology. But I will settle for never having to hear her voice again.
AZ Bob (1c9631) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:15 pmIf only voting out Obama would include these idiots like Crowley.
AZ Bob (1c9631) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:16 pmFact checking: Obama wrong on increased drilling on both private and Fed lands
Angelo (234a2b) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:17 pmI never paid attention until my daughter got into an age of picking her own clothes. (Punk-goth, right now.)
nk (875f57) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:18 pm#414 Crowley perfectly illustrates what Conservatives have been saying for a long time. She jumped to the conclusion she wanted — avoided facts. She will get roasted for that lie.
Rodney King's Spirit (9ce6d4) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:18 pmI am looking at Drudge and the picture of Obama leaning and smirking at Romney. And I realized:
Obama found his inner Biden.
AZ Bob (1c9631) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:19 pmCrowley actually believes it when a political hack like Adm
CrapperClapper falls on his sword. Everyone knew it was a coordinated attack within the first week. Except those who were too busy campaigning in Vegas, I guess.See this Gingrich takedown of reporters who think that Clapper was stating facts (circa 3:20-4:00)
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:19 pmOn Benghazi Romney missed an opportunity to nail the president. He just focused on the nuances of what the president said at the rose garden. Missed chance. That was the scariest moment for the Dems but he let it slip away..
The Emperor (6f94ec) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:20 pm#421 Not true, 180 degrees other way.
All this does is put this issue front and center for 1 week till next week.
More people will learn about the lies this coming week than would have during this debate.
Every channel will be talking it. And more sunlight, the worse it gets for the lie.
Rodney King's Spirit (9ce6d4) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:23 pm419.I am looking at Drudge and the picture of Obama leaning and smirking at Romney. And I realized:
Obama found his inner Biden
It’s the Alinsky method of acting, AZ Bob.
nk (875f57) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:24 pm_________________________________________
I got s*** the last time for saying Obama won, on posture, demeanor, and reasonance of voice. This time, Romney matched him on all three and beat him on substance.
Honorable Mentions: Crowley, because she wasn’t as bad as Raddatz
Crowley was a disaster.
That makes me think of this…
And the following isn’t a case of “Rashomon.” It’s a matter of pure, unadulterated BS.
LOL. We have 2 con artists in the White House. So when I watched Obama tonight, or on any other occasion, I can’t help but think of a smooth-talking salesman trying to unload used cars, aluminum siding, or the Brooklyn Bridge.
Mark (f474e0) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:30 pmPrecisely the opposite. It was two weeks before that idea was DROPPED.
It “came out” immediately.
Patterico (8b3905) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:34 pmFirst poll is out, Obama wins 46 to Romney 39! The same people who gave Romney the advantage last two weeks.
The Emperor (6f94ec) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:36 pmI wouldn’t worry too much about the whole missed opportunity on Benghazi. The next debate is supposed to be centered on foreign policy — right? — so the topic will again come to the forefront.
JVW (f5695c) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:39 pmI think Romney’s biggest liability is his inconsistencies and flip-flopping. America does not trust a candidate that allows himself to be labelled a flip-flopper. That is the problem with Mitt Romney. Who is the real Mitt Romney??
The Emperor (6f94ec) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:40 pmChimperor is on his knees at the altar of Teh One.
JD (318f81) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:40 pmFirst pole out was likely Chris Matthews.
nk (875f57) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:41 pmCould have been Anderson Cooper.
nk (875f57) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:42 pmWhich bacterium is lovie? C. diff or c. collia?
nk (875f57) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:44 pm326 SF: You know, people in China now are smuggling money out of the country.
348. Comment by EPWJ — 10/16/2012 @ 7:38 pm
Okay Sammy, first – what money – second – a source
Their own money. There are capital controls, but hey are relatively easy to get around, although the occasional unfortunate person can get a 6 year prison term for arranging that.
The money coming out seems to be increasing, probably I would say, because of the coming change in government leadership. Of course the projected devaluation of the currency is another reason.
The source is a front article in today’s (Tuesday October 16, 2012) Wall Street Journal.
In Reversal, Cash Leaks Out of China
…China hasn’t reported on capital inflows and outflows since last year, but it is possible to gauge more recent flows using trade data, foreign-exchange reserves numbers released Saturday and other economic statistics. A Wall Street Journal analysis of that data suggests that in the 12 months through September, about $225 billion flowed out of China, equivalent to about 3% of the nation’s economic output last year…..
…China officially maintains a closed capital account, meaning it restricts the ability of individuals and businesses to move money across its borders. Chinese individuals aren’t allowed to move more than $50,000 per year out of the country. Chinese companies can exchange yuan for foreign currencies only for approved business purposes, such as paying for imports or approved foreign investments.
In reality, the closed system has become more porous and the rules are routinely ignored…..
…To gauge the size of the outflow, the Journal compared the change in the country’s foreign-exchange reserves with changes in the main components that cause reserves to rise and fall: the trade surplus, foreign direct investment, interest on foreign assets and movements in exchange rates.
The two sides of the equation should match. If foreign-exchange reserves increase more than the sum of the components, it suggests extra cash is flowing into China. If reserves increase less, or even fall, it means money is somehow getting out…..
…Because the $225 billion figure is derived from broad economic statistics, it is impossible to say how much of the outflow is legitimate personal and corporate transactions and how much was moved illegally or was the product of illegal activities.
A sprawling industry has developed to help Chinese get money out. Services range from the money-transfer agents to private jets that ferry money by customs officials unmolested, according to lawyers and brokers who help Chinese investors find investments abroad. Sometimes bank transfers by companies hide personal money being moved out, these people say. Another method is to piggyback personal cash atop legitimate export and import transactions, at times by using fake invoices, they say. People even carry bags of cash across the border….
[Also, sometimes people have friends transfer money]
…Hong Kong, although part of China, has a separate financial system and currency—and no restrictions on outbound capital. Consequently, there are restrictions on mainland Chinese moving money to Hong Kong.
One legal way that some elite Chinese have gotten money offshore is by taking their companies public in Hong Kong, then selling shares. Since 2005, 350 mainland companies have raised more than US$150 billion in Hong Kong, according to data provider Dealogic. Company owners can accomplish the same thing by listing in New York or Singapore….
….A recent decision by Hong Kong’s highest court highlighted the territory’s role as a facilitator for mainland money to escape. Yan Suiling, a wealthy Amway saleswoman, insurance agent and restaurateur in the southern Chinese city of Guangzhou, moved $2 million via a money-transfer agent from the mainland to Hong Kong between 2007 and 2009, according to case records and lawyers involved with the case. She used the money to invest in Hong Kong’s stock market.
Ms. Yan got into trouble when a check deposited in her Hong Kong account in one of the transactions included proceeds that Hong Kong authorities traced to a $1 million mortgage fraud by someone else. Despite having no involvement in the mortgage fraud, she was convicted in a Hong Kong court of money laundering and served 18 months in prison.
On appeal, her lawyers argued that she thought the money was part of a money transfer and couldn’t be expected to know it had come from the mortgage fraud. While such transfers are against the rules on the mainland, they are permitted in free-market-oriented Hong Kong. Her lawyers declined to comment, and Ms. Yan didn’t respond to a request for comment.
Hong Kong’s Court of Final Appeal agreed and cleared her record. The court said it was “not surprising” that she would “find it necessary” to use a money-transfer agent since she had to evade the mainland’s currency regulations in order to invest in Hong Kong’s stock market.
Sammy Finkelman (762ee4) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:45 pmFirst poll is out, Obama wins 46 to Romney 39! The same people who gave Romney the advantage last two weeks.
Where are you seeing that? The only immediate debate results I can find are at CBS, which has Obama at 37%, Romney at 30%, and 33% declaring it a tie. I doubt that this sort of breakdown will do much to improve Obama’s overall standing, especially with the large number who viewed the debate as a tie.
JVW (f5695c) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:45 pmI think Romney won by a slim margin. At very best a tie. Obama needed to crush Romney to stop the bleeding. He did not accomplish it. Romney will continue to see his lead widen.
Dennis D (d91acc) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:51 pmWith McCain you knew where he stood. So also Bush. But where does Romney stand on most of the issues? He just says anything that can get him votes and when he’s done with that he dumps it. In a private meeting with donors he says he is not interested in the 47 percent who are victims, non tax payers and people who feel entitled. After trying to defend what he said he does a 360 and says it was totally wrong. Now he says he will work for the 100 percent.
The Emperor (6f94ec) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:51 pmCrowley comes semi-clean on her error…
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/333916.php
Colonel Haiku (c57a06) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:59 pmWho made it a law that only the media can serve as moderators? Romney or the next Republican campaign heads should think out of the box. There are a host of more neutral choices found among other fields, starting with college debate coaches/judges. Or, how about lawyers or judges?
Ghost_on_the_Wind (a0e0c9) — 10/16/2012 @ 8:59 pmWimperor… we know where Obama will be standing come January 21st… in the unemployment line to get a taste of his own medicine…
Colonel Haiku (c57a06) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:00 pm_____________________________________________
With McCain you knew where he stood. So also Bush. But where does Romney stand on most of the issues
I can understand a conservative being apprehensive about that — about his squishiness — but a liberal? After all, Romney’s history is far closer to the center — intertwined with things like his stint as governor of uber-blue Massachusetts — compared with the ultra-liberal background of Obama.
That’s why I think people who have been so devoted to President “Goddamn America” truly are hard-core liberals, if not knee-jerk leftists. Because they know that in spite of his and his clique’s limousine liberalism, he’s still someone they want to bond with. He’s their philosophical soul brother.
Mark (f474e0) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:03 pm“Weird CNN poll results: Obama wins 46-39. But Romney 58-40 on economy; 51-44 taxes; 49-46 healthcare; 59-36 on deficit. Vote for? Tied 25-25”
– Charles CW Cooke
Colonel Haiku (c57a06) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:04 pmYeah, Emperor, Romney really needs a catchy slogan like “hope and change” to let the American people know where he really stands.
Or better yet, he should do like Obama did four year ago and make very specific promises: “I’ll close Guantanamo,” “I won’t raise taxes on the middle class,” “I’ll cut the annual deficit in half by 2012,” “I’ll have C-SPAN televise the negotiations for our health care bill so that it is all done in the light of day.”
And I love when liberals play their usual game of “this year’s Republican candidate is way more extreme than those past Republican candidates who we said were positively Francoian in their outlook.” I’m pleased that you appreciate the ideological clarity of Bush and McCain.
JVW (f5695c) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:05 pm@col haiku.
The Emperor (6f94ec) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:07 pmName calling and insults, that’s all you got. Angry little minion..
I didn’t watch it, but I turned on the radio a minute ago and heard Hewitt mentioning that Crowley has admitted being wrong, as the Colonel points out, and one opinion that this will all turn out to Romney’s good by bringing more discussion to it in the coming days as well as an obvious example of moderator bias.
In a private meeting with donors he says he is not interested in the 47 percent who are victims, non tax payers and people who feel entitled.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:08 pmAre you being serious? Try that somewhere else where people are stupid and uninformed. Romney never said he was “uninterested in the 47%”, but that there were 47% who would never be persuaded to vote for him because of their not paying taxes. Yes, the number was wrong and it may have sounded bad, but he was talking about campaign strategy for getting votes, not about who he “cared about governing”. Please- get informed or honest before you come back, whichever one it is.
“Weird CNN poll results: Obama wins 46-39. But Romney 58-40 on economy; 51-44 taxes; 49-46 healthcare; 59-36 on deficit. Vote for? Tied 25-25.″
Not so weird. We’ve been seeing this for the past four years: people really want to like Obama, so even when he falls short they give him the benefit of the doubt. The fact that he actually remained awake for the debate tonight probably led some to award him the overall victory, kind of in the spirit of the “every kid gets a trophy” phenomenon.
JVW (f5695c) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:08 pmhave some gubmint cheese with that whine, wimperor…
Colonel Haiku (c57a06) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:09 pmAs long as any media people serve as a moderator, they are going to treat presidential debates just like another interview. Hence, they lack any sense of boundaries forbidding the their habits of asking unfair questions and giving less time to candidates that they oppose. They lack any understanding of real debate principles. Oh heck, they lack any real professionalism whatsoever.
But other people do.
Ghost_on_the_Wind (a0e0c9) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:10 pmI’m going back and watching the Tivoed beginning of the debate and it’s just as I remember it from the radio. On the energy question, Crowley let Obama speak three times while Romney spoke only twice. When Romney tried to speak a third time, she talked over him. Then Obama whined about being interrupted.
Waaaaah.
Absolutely enraging.
Patterico (8b3905) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:15 pmComment by AZ Bob — 10/16/2012 @ 8:15 pm
For 10 days Obama and his team said the death of the Ambassador and three more Americans was a result of a natural and probably reaction to a video.
They never said it was natural and expected. Just the opposite. The problem is they linked the attack on Benghazi to the video and to a supposed demonstration in Benghazi.
Sammy Finkelman (762ee4) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:16 pmBut where does Romney stand on most of the issues?
After nearly 4 years of Obama we see where he stands, and even if Romney was standing on his head in a field of manure his position would be better than Obama’s on about everything.
Do we want more national debt- No
Do we want no budgets let alone reasonable ones- No
Do we want the US to be has-beens on the world stage and leave it to tyrants- No
Do we want outright lies from the WH for political gain- No
Even if we get all of those things we don’t want, Romney will still be better than Obama. Obama couldn’t hurt America any more than he has if he was trying.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:17 pmComment by AZ Bob — 10/16/2012 @ 8:15 pm
Althouse: “Crowley helps Obama by saying ‘He did in fact, sir… He did in fact call it an act of terr
First question here is: How was Crowley so sure?
She said look at the transcript. Sounds like she had been reading the transcript before. The only reason to study that right before the debate was that the Obama campaign had called her attention to it!!
Sammy Finkelman (762ee4) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:18 pmCrowley was wrong and has had to admit it.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:19 pmRomney never said he was “uninterested in the 47%”, but that there were 47% who would never be persuaded to vote for him because of their not paying taxes.
I think Romney’s mistake here was to conflate two different things. Yes, 47% of us don’t pay Federal income tax, but as was pointed out a lot of people in that group vote Republican. The other place in which 47% comes in is that it is probably the baseline for Obama’s share of the vote. No matter what happens, Obama can count on 47% of the voters in November casting a ballot for him. This includes wealthy liberals, a strong majority of public employees, young and unmarried urban dwellers, minorities, and the rest of the Democrat coalition. Romney, ironically enough, probably also has a baseline of 47% consisting of social conservatives, married suburbanites, people who regularly attend religious services, etc. This means that for the most part the entire election comes down to about 6% of the voters who are the true undecideds.
I know this is anecdotal and a very small sample size, but I am heartened to hear some of my friends who voted for Obama in 2008 say they will vote for Romney this time around. I haven’t heard anyone tell me they voted for McCain four years ago but would be switching to Obama this year.
JVW (f5695c) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:19 pmI always enjoy the trolls and mobies calling Romney a flip-flopper. Notice how they claim that flip-flopping dooms a candidate.
Um. How many campaign promises has Obama followed through on? I seem to remember that Gitmo was going to be closed within one year, and rendition not being used again.
Whoops!
And the funny part is watching the trolls and mobies loudly proclaim their true motto as alphabetists:
Complete with petulant foot stomp.
Simon Jester (52ca2e) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:20 pmLuntz focus group of undecideds highly impressed with Romney tonight. With Obama? Not so much. Said he was angry and did not answer questions. I did not see or hear the debate so trying to catch up.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/fox-debate-focus-group-devolves-into-frank-luntz-calling-participant-ruth-bader-ginsburg-and-a-bullsh-on-live-tv/
elissa (6574bb) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:21 pm#448: Patterico, Teh Won is their little hothouse orchid, to be protected always.
And that has a bad, bad effect on the hothouse flower!
Simon Jester (52ca2e) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:21 pmNow, Crowley was correct (and Romney got all confused because this didn’t fit the narrative he had gotten)
Obama really had indeed called it an act of terror on Sept. 12.
The Wall Street Journal of Sept. 29-30, 2012 indeed has in its list of statements: (page A10)
No act of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation.
– President Barack Obama, Sept 12.
On NBC I think it is Chuck Todd who pointed out that other things were said there – it was linked to the video. He sounded like he felt Obama’s answer was besides the point – Romney missed some chances.
Also on Sept 12: (New York Times, Friday Sept. 28, 2012 Page A10 also)
We are working to determine the precise motivations and methods of those who carried out this assault. Some have thought to justify this vicious behavior, along with the protests that took place at our embassy in Cairo yesterday as a response to inflammatory material posted on the Internet
– Hillary Rodham Clinton, Secretary of State.
Notice BTW, here too, she separated the assault in Benghazi from the protest in Cairo – and if you read it carefully, you can see she’s not saying there was any protest in Benghazi!!
It’s too early for us to make that judgment. I think — I know this is being investigated, and we’re working with the Libyan government to investigate the incident
– Jay Carney, White House Press Secretary, responding to a question on whether the attack n Benghazi was premeditated.
As everyone knows, as the week went on, the Administration (or the White House) became more certain this was not premeditated, and sent Susan Rice out to argue this to the public.
So, for instance on THIS WEEK with George Stephanapolous she said:
What this began as was a spontaneous, not a premeditated, response to what transpired in Cairo.
Also:
We believe that folks in Benghazi, a small number of people, came to the embassy to – or to the consulate rather – to replicate the sort of challenge that was posed in Cairo. And then, as that unfolded, it seems to have been hijacked, let us say, by some individual clusters of extremists who came with heavier weapons.
– Susan E. Rice, American Ambassador to the U.N. on “This Week with George Stephanopolous” (Sunday Sept. 16, 2012)
Sammy Finkelman (762ee4) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:21 pmAs long as we agree to stay in the box, the left-wing candidates will be given an advantage. The solution has to be found outside the Media’s cage. There are thousands of better qualified debate moderators in this country. They actually know the rules and would stick with them out of sheer professionalism. Who said the only candidates for moderator could come from the media? We’ve let them box us into a corner with no options. Time to get out.
Ghost_on_the_Wind (a0e0c9) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:23 pmNot to forget, most of those polled where Republicans yet they gave Obama the advantage.
The Emperor (6f94ec) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:23 pmI think Romney’s mistake here was to conflate two different things.
Comment by JVW — 10/16/2012 @ 9:19 pm
I think that’s a good way of putting it, but however one takes it, it was not that he was “writing-off” 47% of Americans as not worthy of his concern.
It seems like Romney did not blunder and Obama didn’t get away with too much, at least when including the debate aftermath. G’ night.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:24 pmOn Libya, Crowley backed the President when he was wrong, as she has now admitted. Doesn’t matter at this point. The great comeback of the President is written in stone as far as the media is concerned.
Election Day matters.
Ag80 (b2c81f) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:25 pmAgain, Emperor, can you please direct us to the source of your assertion so that we can all be educated on Obama’s awesomeness tonight?
JVW (f5695c) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:25 pmJVW, I sure hope you have a lot of free time.
Simon Jester (52ca2e) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:27 pm@col haiku.
Name calling and insults, that’s all you got. Angry little minion..
Comment by The Emperor — 10/16/2012 @ 9:07 pm
Says the punk who called me a racist.
SPQR (768505) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:30 pm8. Fortunately I was tied up putting the squirt to bed.
Sack o’ Candy really is hideous, eh? Nobody watches CNN anymore for cause.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:32 pmPolling at CBS and CNN has Willard winning all the issues, D*ckhead wins the beauty contest, most kissable.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:37 pm451
What a brilliant point. She was ready to twist a vague reference to Obama’s advantage.
It is a lie nevertheless.
AZ Bob (1c9631) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:38 pmOutrageous, Crowley helped Obama lie.
The incompetent debate commission needs to be disbanded given their lousy choices.
SPQR (768505) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:38 pmComment by MD in Philly — 10/16/2012 @ 9:19 pm
Crowley was wrong and has had to admit it.
Where was she wrong and when did she admit it?
What was the context of Obama’s quoted words I found this piece of analysis by TIME Magazine:
http://nation.time.com/2012/10/16/when-no-acts-of-terror-actually-means-this-act-of-terror/?iid=pf-main-mostpop2
In Tuesday night’s second presidential debate, we also learned that President Obama isn’t beyond twisting what he said then to make him sound better now:
So we did. According to that transcript, here’s what Obama said in the Rose Garden Sept. 12 at the end of his five-minute statement:
Pretty weak reed.
Read more: http://nation.time.com/2012/10/16/when-no-acts-of-terror-actually-means-this-act-of-terror/#ixzz29WlRW0DZ
I think it’s fair to say President Obama is saying the four Americans were killed by an act of terror. But he’s not attributing it to a pre-existing terrorist group.
Sammy Finkelman (762ee4) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:38 pm469. Wrong again Samuel, go to bed. The rest of us are.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:40 pmOn Sept. 12 President Obama did not say the murders of the four Americans waere acts of terror, but he did imply it.
as for hunting them down, what he said was:
And make no mistake, we will work with the Libyan government to bring to justice the killers who attacked our people.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2012/09/12/president-obama-discusses-attack-benghazi-libya
This is still not a full transcript.
Sammy Finkelman (762ee4) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:44 pmSammy, Sammy, Sammy-
The repeated story, the one we remember easiest because it was the one repeated by the admin and by the media reporting on what the admin said, was that there was a mob protest about the video and then an armed assault took place, and days later Obama was talking in front of the UN all about Muslims getting upset about offensive videos.
That was all wrong and made up, whether or not he used the word “terror” or not in his intro remarks.
I just had the thought that maybe Hillary “taking the responsibility” was an attempt to focus discussion on the attack itself and off of the false narrative afterwards, because while mistakes can be made, a mistake in judgement is after all more understandable than premeditated deceit and cover-up.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:48 pmRomney did try to follow up with the issue of the Secretary of State misrepresenting things on the Sunday shows, but Obama suddenly became very concerned about moving on so all these wonderful folks can have their questions answered.
And Candy obligingly helped him dodge the bullet.
But you know what? Obama did say he would be happy to have a longer discussion about this. And the third debate is foreign policy. And Candy’s decision to flap her gums on this issue ensures that the issue will be front and center.
You’re going to get that longer discussion, Mr. Obama.
Patterico (8b3905) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:51 pmFor 10 days, Obama, Rice and their Chicago cronies said this was a response to a video.
And the media went along with it.
Is Finkelman denying recorded history?
AZ Bob (1c9631) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:52 pmI also saw Andrea Mitchell on NBC giving a fact check on the point where the two candidates flatly contradicted each other: Oil production on federal land. Romney said it went down and Obam said it went up.
Turns out the statistic Romney used was for the difference between 2010 and 2011. Andrea Mitchell said production was cut because of the BP oil spill. With 2008 as baseline, there was indeed an increase by 2011, like President Obama said.
Thoughts: What counts is the trend now.
Now, the early increase was baked in when Obama got into office. The decrease in production from the BP oil spill didn’t have to happen. What really is important is what happened from 2011 to 2012, and NBC didn’t have any estimate for that.
Sammy Finkelman (762ee4) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:52 pmObama mentioned the video seven times at the UN.
AZ Bob (1c9631) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:54 pmIn fact, after the BP oil disaster, the Obama administration imposed a moratorium on drilling that was overturned by a court – the court concluding that there was no evidence on which to base the moratorium, that it was arbitrary.
SPQR (768505) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:56 pmDidn’t Andrea Mitchell also say that Baumgartner fell faster than the speed of light the other day? Another careful journalist?
http://twitchy.com/2012/10/15/scienc-is-hard-andrea-mitchell-reports-that-fearless-felix-traveled-faster-than-speed-of-light/
I guess I mean Journolist.
Simon Jester (52ca2e) — 10/16/2012 @ 9:58 pmComment by MD in Philly — 10/16/2012 @ 9:48 pm
Sammy, Sammy, Sammy-
The repeated story, the one we remember easiest because it was the one repeated by the admin and by the media reporting on what the admin said, was that there was a mob protest about the video and then an armed assault took place,
But they only repeated that on Sunday Sept 16, when Ambassador to the United Nation Susan Rice went on all the Sunday morning talk shows.
Back on September 12, they hadn’t been saying that.
That’s what Romney missed.
Sammy Finkelman (762ee4) — 10/16/2012 @ 10:00 pmRomney was pushed aside by Crowley the biased moderator. Romney was correct that Obama’s policy and subsequent spin have been false.
AZ Bob (1c9631) — 10/16/2012 @ 10:05 pmBottom Line: Obama did not change the dynamic, and Obama does not change the momentum in Romney’s favor.
EBL (f71fce) — 10/16/2012 @ 10:08 pm______________________________________________
Obama really had indeed called it an act of terror on Sept. 12.
But coming from someone like him, from a person whose knee-jerk biases coddle “goddamn America” rhetoric, it’s not too cynical to guess that in his wonderful, beautiful heart, he’s yearning to ask — in a manner analogous to his Democrat predecessor wanting to ask what the “meaning of ‘is’ is” — what the meaning of “terror” is. IOW, terror triggered by a big meanie, party-pooper video (even an obscure one posted to Youtube) emanating from the US doesn’t seem quite so blatantly unfair, puzzling, unexpected, surprising, heartless, mindless and intolerant.
This is from his speech in front of the United Nations on 9-24, 13 days after the attack on the American consulate, 12 days after his statement that Crowley was all too happy to point out:
^ That he would inflate the importance of a big-whoop-de-doo video, and give its detractors more sympathy and attention than they deserve, speaks volumes about what makes Obama (ie, Jeremiah Wright’s buddy) tick.
Mark (f474e0) — 10/16/2012 @ 10:10 pm“Back on September 12, they hadn’t been saying that.”
Sammy – I believe Carney spouted that meme Sept. 14.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/16/2012 @ 10:10 pmDude. Please give me a break. I’m retired Navy. Don’t blame Clapper on us.
He was a Lieutenant General in the USAF, k?
It’s GEN Clapper, not ADM. Nuff said.
I like you Kevin, but you keep calling this Clapper character an Admiral and that kind of s*** has got to stop.
Steve57 (c8ac21) — 10/16/2012 @ 10:12 pmThe Administration statements got less, not more, accurate with time.. Romney got utterly confused because he didn’t understand that. They hadn’t studied it closely.
Obama citing what he said on Sept 12 was no proof or counter as to what was said on Sept 16.
On Sept 12, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said it was too early to tell whether or not the attack in Benghazi was premeditated.
On September 13 State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland (daughter of medical writer Sherwin Nuland BTW) said:
We are very cautious about drawing any conclusions with regard to who the perpetrators were, what their motivations were, whether it was premeditated whether they had any external contacts, whether there was any link, until we have a chance to investigate, along with the Libyans.
On Sept 14, Jay Carney said:
We have no information to suggest this was a preplanned attack
And on Sept 16, Susan Rice was saying:
What this began as was a spontaneous, not a premeditated, response to what transpired in Cairo.
A lot of sooper sekrit intelligence had poured in by that time, I think.
Sammy Finkelman (762ee4) — 10/16/2012 @ 10:12 pmIt seems readily apparent that Obama is concerned about his base.
JD (318f81) — 10/16/2012 @ 10:12 pmLooks like the media will now say both guys lost because they were so “rancorous” or “nauseating” per Drudge headlines. Hardly! But it’s a way to throw it to Obama.
It will only add to Romney’s momentum, though, as per Luntz’s group. It wasn’t a knockout but enough for voters to commit to Mitt!
Patricia (e1d89d) — 10/16/2012 @ 10:14 pmKCAL just did a SWATTING story
auntie fraud (2f38aa) — 10/16/2012 @ 10:16 pmObama’s next excuse? Mormon Mafia to blame for Benghazi attack.
SPQR (768505) — 10/16/2012 @ 10:16 pm“The Administration statements got less, not more, accurate with time.. Romney got utterly confused because he didn’t understand that.”
Sammy – The cover up was intended to throw squid ink over the administration’s screw ups until after the election. The only confusion created tonight was Obama’s false attempt to claim he had provided clarity on Sept. 12 when he had in fact done anything but.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/16/2012 @ 10:31 pmYeah? The bit about LAPD saying someone is going to get killed? I would normally have linked that, but, you know, debate.
Patterico (8b3905) — 10/16/2012 @ 11:43 pmWhat did they say on KCAL?
Patterico (8b3905) — 10/16/2012 @ 11:44 pmObama’s next excuse? Mormon Mafia to blame for Benghazi attack.
Comment by SPQR — 10/16/2012 @ 10:16 pm
That guy is a total f*cking loon.
peedoffamerican (3cfc4a) — 10/16/2012 @ 11:48 pmNot you SPQR, the one at the link.
peedoffamerican (3cfc4a) — 10/16/2012 @ 11:49 pmPlease will someone EVER fact-check Obama’s tired “Bush’s tax cuts turned a surplus into a deficit”?
The surplus was the result of some Congressional restraint and higher taxes, but it was mainly that they came at a time of a huge dot-com boom/bubble. The last years of the 90’s saw incredible stock gains and cap gains tax bills. But this ended with the dot-com crash of 2000, still on Clinton’s watch.
Whether or not Bush had gotten his tax cuts, the surplus was done in 2001 (and more than done after 9-11). A good argument could be made that without the Bush tax cuts, 2001 would have been the start of a deep recession and even worse deficits.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 10/17/2012 @ 12:46 amFWIW, I thought Romney did quite well and won or tied. Obama got a save on Benghazi, but next Monday is all foreign policy.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 10/17/2012 @ 12:50 amComment by SPQR — 10/16/2012 @ 9:56 pm
And didn’t the Obama admin. ignore the court order about the Gulf moratorium?
As far as the video meme, Romney wasn’t prepared for Obama to double down with an obfuscation. Honest men are sometimes not prepared to handle dishonesty- a kind of projection that is the mirror image of what the left does. next time is on foreign policy and it will likely get addressed again.
Comment by Kevin M — 10/17/2012 @ 12:46 am
Exactly about the dotcom bubble. I will listen to a Democrat talk about Bush economy problems only after the acknowledge the obvious.
And I thought back in the day that I read that with the “Bush tax cuts” tax revenue was actually higher than previously projected. While that is beside the point for “fair redistribution” Obama, I think everyone but the hard left thinks in terms of more fed income means more ability to pay for things, which is good.
I hear that Obama/Crowley got something in about the “47%” at the end when Romney was given no chance to respond. Such sly devils, aren’t they?
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 10/17/2012 @ 6:16 amNote the top-level domain: .IR. PRESS TV is an Iranian TV channel that was recently taken off the air in the EU because of the sanctions. That explains everything.
Milhouse (15b6fd) — 10/17/2012 @ 7:41 amKevin M., the Democrats keep lying about the mythical “Clinton surplus” – which even in its faux form was gone by FY2001 – Clinton’s last budget.
SPQR (768505) — 10/17/2012 @ 7:45 am