Aaron Walker Arrested for Blogging? Clearing Some of the Fog Surrounding Today’s Litigation
Well, partially dispelling.
Aaron Walker (aka Worthing) was arrested today in a Maryland courtroom. Several days ago, convicted bomber and perjurer Brett Kimberlin had obtained a “peace order” against Walker, and today Walker was arrested for violating the order. My information is that the judge claimed that Walker violated the provision against electronic communication with Kimberlin, because Aaron blogged about Kimberlin — thus “inciting” others to contact Kimberlin.
In other words, as best as I can tell, Aaron Walker was arrested today in the United States of America for blogging about a public figure.
Kimberlin supporter OccupyRebellion is thrilled:
This post is based on a couple of first-hand accounts from witnesses who don’t want to be named. I have not had a chance to read transcripts, listen to court audio, review minute orders, or see any other similar material (besides two docket entries shown below) that would definitively establish precisely what happened. But I am reasonably confident of the following:
- Aaron was not arrested for second degree assault, contrary to some false reports floating around. The rumor apparently started because the deputy who arrested him was familiar with the incident in which Aaron grabbed Kimberlin’s iPad when Kimberlin was trying to take a picture of him. Apparently the deputy believed that he was arresting Aaron for that alleged assault. But Aaron was actually booked for violating a peace order.
- It does not appear that Aaron was held in contempt for his behavior in court today. Aaron may have irritated the judge by interrupting Kimberlin and the judge repeatedly (a good reason why you don’t represent yourself in court; you are too emotionally involved). But as you’ll hear below, it sounds like the judge explicitly disregarded applicable Supreme Court precedent, saying he didn’t care about it.
- As best as I can tell, the arrest occurred because Brett Kimberlin got a warrant from a judge two days ago, for a criminal charge of violation of a peace order.
I am not an expert on Maryland criminal law, but from talking to people about this, it appears (stunning as it sounds) that they have a procedure there in Maryland whereby any citizen can go to a judge and swear out a complaint against another citizen for a crime. If the judge makes a finding of probable cause — and it appears that they rubber-stamp these things, in my opinion — the warrant issues, without any prosecutorial oversight. Only at some point in the future does the State’s Attorney decide whether the charges are appropriate.
(As an aside, this is my understanding of what happened when Aaron was facing second degree assault charges several weeks ago. As best as I can understand the process, the case was never “filed” by the State’s Attorney. They dismissed it after a video showed Kimberlin had lied under oath about several aspects of the incident. But the charges had lingered on for weeks before they did.)
That appears to be what happened here. Apparently Kimberlin went to court and obtained a “peace order” on May 19, 2012 — two days after Aaron wrote his lengthy post about Kimberlin’s extensive harassment of Aaron:
The “interim” order became a “temporary” order on May 22, 2012, as you can see from the above docket entry — and became “final” today. When Aaron refused to stop blogging about Kimberlin, Kimberlin went to court this weekend, on Sunday, and convinced a judge on Sunday to issue a warrant for Walker’s arrest. The charge: violating the peace order.
I interpret “WARI” in the above screenshot as “Warrant Issued” and “WARS” as “Warrant Served” — which happened today, according to the same screenshot.
So Aaron was arrested for the criminal charge that Brett Kimberlin swore out against him on Sunday. That charge was violating the temporary restraining order, which today was extended to November 2012. Meaning that, under the judge’s unconstitutional view of the law, Aaron is not allowed to blog about Brett Kimberlin until November. (There is no way that order will last; trust me.)
Eugene Volokh quotes the illiterate order of the judge today:
That there is clear and convincing evidence that within 30 days before the filing of the Petition, [Walker] committed the following act(s):
Placed [Kimberlin] in fear of imminent serious bodily harm: COUNTLESS NUMBER OF BLOGS EITHER THREATENING DEATH [sic]
From what I know of the hearing, if Kimberlin produced evidence of these countless blogs (and I doubt he did), it was quite clear that none of the alleged countless blogs were written Aaron. In essence, Aaron was blamed for the reaction of people to his posts.
Again, as best as I can tell based on the information I have, Aaron was arrested for blogging.
As Glenn Reynolds says:
If I read this correctly, Aaron Walker is in trouble because Kimberlin claims that his blogging has somehow led to other people making death threats. That doesn’t seem to pass the First Amendment smell test. Only if Walker were inciting those threats in a way that passed Brandenburg scrutiny would that work, and I don’t believe that’s the case at all. At any rate, under this approach George Zimmerman ought to be able to jail any number of journalists. . . .
I am told that Aaron raised the Brandenburg case (that’s U.S. Supreme Court precedent on incitement, folks) and the judge said he didn’t care about Brandenburg.
That’s what I’m told.
So Brett Kimberlin, knowing that Aaron was coming to court to defend against a civil “peace order,” lay in ambush with a criminal charge, so that Aaron would be arrested.
One wonders if this is his new strategy: he sues you for your blogging, and simultaneously obtains a peace order saying you harassed him. If you blog about him again, he gets a judge to rubber stamp a criminal complaint for violating the peace order.
Now, if you don’t show up for the lawsuit, he gets a default judgment. If you do, you get arrested for blogging.
Catch 22. And a nice scam if you can get judges gullible enough to go along with it.
This is, I had thought, the United States of America. I thought we had freedom of speech here.
It will take a few days to nail down with precision what happened. But if the account I have given here turns out to be correct — if the basis of the arrest today was that Aaron incited others by blogging about a public figure — I want all lovers of the First Amendment to stand tall and ride to Aaron’s defense.
Because they’re not done. They claim they’re just getting started:
UPDATE: David Hogberg has an excellent post up which appears entirely consistent with this post. He was a witness to today’s hearing. In addition to confirming the presence of “Kimberlin and his associate Neal Rauhauser” at the hearing, Hogberg writes:
A few thoughts: First, never represent yourself. Walker clearly needed an attorney.
Second, it seems that Vaughey doesn’t understand how the Internet works. I or anyone else can write a blog post about “Person A” and urge others to write about it. But I have no control over whether other people do that. And I certainly have no control over whether someone sends a threatening email or tweet to Person A after reading my blog post. Surely, the people who send threatening emails and such should face consequences. But as long as I do not write something along the lines of “send Person A a nasty email,” I’m not in anyway at fault. And looking over Aaron Walker’s blog, it’s clear he never told anyone to do such a thing to Kimberlin.
But, according to Vaughey’s reasoning, I would be at fault. If that’s indeed the case, well, you can probably figure out that the First Amendment has just been gutted.
Much more at the link. I think between Hogberg’s post and mine, you get a pretty good picture of what went down today. And it is truly the gutting of our free speech rights. It cannot be allowed to stand.
UPDATE x2: There is a legal defense fund for Aaron, Stacy McCain, and others financially harmed by Kimberlin’s stalkerish ways. Contribute here.
Ding.
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:38 pmKmart is stalkerish.
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:40 pmThank you for putting today’s activities in context. I have been asking about that Sunday warrNt, and precious little was known.
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:45 pmSecond what JD said, thanks for the context Patterico.
Noodles (3681c4) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:47 pmAll the people who advocate for a world in which this sort of thing is common won’t actually be capable of surviving in the world that this sort of behavior will bring, because the smartass, crazy stalkers who hide behind the misapplication of laws are the first ones to be killed by those who feel no need to abide by any law except the law of strength.
The False God (3c3f6e) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:48 pmUPDATE: David Hogberg has an excellent post up which appears entirely consistent with this post. He was a witness to today’s hearing. In addition to confirming the presence of “Kimberlin and his associate Neal Rauhauser” at the hearing, Hogberg writes:
Much more at the link. I think between Hogberg’s post and mine, you get a pretty good picture of what went down today. And it is truly the gutting of our free speech rights. It cannot be allowed to stand.
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:49 pmI really don’t like that last tweet. Really, really don’t.
Thanks for the post, Patterico – it makes sense of a lot of things I’d read, and was having trouble putting in order. Especially since I’m not a lawyer, and my main interest in the law is to stay out of its way, lest I be grist for the mill.
Dianna (f12db5) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:50 pmThis judgey person seemed blissfully unaware of the Internet, and google alerts, and twitter, and blogs, and how he got lied lied lied lied lied lied lied lied to.
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:51 pmI think the judge should be facing charges of his own. Ignoring the Supreme Court and the Constitution? I think the blogs should start pinging the Maryland’s AG office asking if the 1st amendment is truly dead in the state.
Zaggs (6b7451) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:52 pmSmall typo. Kimberlin filed for the Peace Order on May 19th.
RocIngersoll (186f4d) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:53 pmThanks. Fixed.
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:55 pmAt what point does the judicial system start taking official notice of Brett Kimberlin’s “dirty hands”?
Steven Den Beste (99cfa1) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:58 pmThis will be big news. It comes at a high price for Aaron so I’m sorry this happened, but the headline alone makes it big: “Blogger arrested for blogging.”
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:58 pmThanks, Patterico. Good post.
It seems like a severe injustice has been done.
I also am annoyed at the ‘fog’ over information, as Volokh described it.
This was a great story for local media in Maryland to cover. Bloggers have day jobs (until Kimberlin calls your employer, I guess). There is a lack of good coverage that I think a newspaper or TV Station should want to provide.
Kimberlin is thriving on this confusion. People think Aaron was arrested for assault. People think he was arrested for contempt (I read one conservative insisting we should feel no sympathy for Aaron because of the notion this was contempt of court).
I saw someone on Aaron’s blog post an inappropriate comment talking about Kimberlin’s address and suggesting contacting him. Aaron removed it.
Aaron even emailed me and asked me to let him know if I see anything like that.
“let me know and i will knock it down.”
I think he even publicly said so.
Aaron was actively opposed to threats and harassment of Kimberlin. He only wanted to report the story accurately. I do not understand how anyone could say, in good faith, that this is incitement.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:59 pmAaron should close his comments.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:00 pmEven with a lawyer, the client can mess up. I had a judge as good as you can find. I had a client who was likely the second smartest person I have ever met. I am not all that bad a lawyer, but I could not prevent the bad tempers between the two.
nk (875f57) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:01 pmthe senile idiot coot judge in this case is an appalling embarrassment even in the same fascist Maryland judiciary what tried to rape Linda Tripp and take away her freedom and money
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:05 pmI was talking to Aaron’s wife (on her way to pick up Aaron) when Aaron (just released from jail on his own recognizance), called me. I joined the calls and stayed on with them until they were together. That was kinda neat.
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:10 pmAaron’s wife is a lovely woman. I worry about the toll this stressful nightmare would take on anyone in her position.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:12 pmWell.
Bad cases make bad law.
I like Aaron’s demeanor and his work here on Patterico. But dude, get off the righteous horse and button it. Let the other guy hang himself… that is the golden rule.
If I am a 28000 word guy, I would need to hire the equivalent of a legal distillery… distilling my 28000 word epic into three short, catchy sentences.
My job would be to sit there and shut up; look forlorn and aggrieved, rendered destitute by this felon… hope is far away and fear is so near…
Where is f%%king John Edwards when you need him to shed a crocodile tear
SteveG (831214) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:12 pmThis is pretty much insane, but I’m just restating the obvious.
I donated to Patrick on Paypal yesterday and started to donate to Aaron but could only find that donation page that goes to a lot of people. I don’t see a tip jar on Allergic to Bull, does anyone know the way to donate to Aaron directly?
Kaisersoze (298188) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:12 pmIs the judge truly ignorant about things like Twitter and thought Kimberlin was being directly contacted every time Aaron Tweeted something about him?
Harrison (975823) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:14 pmOk:
Shame this happened at all, I know in NY(My late great home State) Judges who pull stunts like this are removed from office rather quickly. See for example Restaino v. State Commission 10 N.Y.3d 577 (2008). Does anyone know if Maryland has a similar precedent. M
TheOtherMatt (a66a80) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:14 pmMr. Aaron is under a lot of stress and pressure some of which I would not be surprised to learn is financial Mr. G and I don’t see any defense lawyers winging it to the fascist state of Maryland to help a brother out
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:14 pmIf I am a 28000 word guy, I would need to hire the equivalent of a legal distillery.
But if you have a Judge that thinks Google Alerts is email and Twitter is snail mail, you don’t need a lawyer helping you. You need a Procologist to pull that Judge’s head out of his azz. I’m sure that Judge is a nice guy but this is pretty much a C. Montgomery Burns scene out of the Simpsons but at an immensely higher cost for Aaron.
Kaisersoze (298188) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:16 pmAlong with closing his comments section, it might be prudent for him to avoid tweeting and blogging. Self- protection and easier to resist any provocations by BK’s cohorts.
I hope Mrs. Walker has family near and a good strong support system. It has to be horrible watching her husband go through this. Probably a great comfort to them both to talk to you, Patterico.
Dana (4eca6e) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:16 pmI think the fund that McCain and Aaron may draw from if necessary (and perhaps others later, but Aaron probably has the most immediate need) is here.
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:17 pmI believe Brett explained to the judge that he’s getting Google Alerts in his Gmail inbox pointing to … some big stack of printouts of things on the internet about the convicted bomber.
The judge may not have understood that Brett took the initiative to set up the google alerts because he wants to know if anyone mentions him online. Maybe he thinks Aaron is responsible for what Brett is doing. Maybe he thinks the result of Brett’s own google alert is harassment because Brett doesn’t like what people think of the convicted bomber?
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:18 pmI recommend that he do that. There are many of us to speak for him. The order will be lifted, I am supremely confident of that, and Brett’s reputation will suffer even further in the process.
Why he doesn’t see that? Is actually pretty obvious, I suppose.
He’s the scorpion on the frog. It’s his nature.
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:19 pmDana it feels wrong to ask Mr. Aaron to stop speaking out
if we weren’t in America it would be different
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:19 pmUm, Walker and his wife are BROKE.
Did any lawyer in Maryland step up to defend him?
NO.
Until you asshole lawyers who charge 300 bucks an hour decide to stand up for freedom of speech, we are lost.
A lot of Americans know what it’s like to need a lawyer and not be able to afford one.
Walker and his wife both lost their jobs over this. What do you think they are living on?
Tamminator (928101) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:19 pmSheesh.
The publicity enough is worth the case.
Dana it feels wrong to ask Mr. Aaron to stop speaking out
Ditto that. At this point, what else could happen? Get arrested for blogging?
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:20 pmBy the way, it’s about time these judges started asking Brett for proof when he starts running his mouth in court. I’ve listened to far too many hours of court audio where Kimberlin makes vague statements and gets away with it — always against pro se litigants, I might add.
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:20 pmThanks for clearing things up. I’ll drop some funds on Aaron’s defense fund as soon as I can.
In the meantime I hope that this case has already been appealed. I can’t believe that ALL the judges in Montgomery Cty, MD are as clueless as Judge Vaughney.
Dustyn H (ebe03e) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:20 pmDustin:
The Judge apparently analogizes talking on the internet with standing in a group of people and inciting them to become a mob. I think we can all see some parallels and some differences. However, what really matters is whether the Judge followed legal precedent in analyzing what Aaron said (vs what others said) and whether Aaron’s words constituted incitement.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:21 pmI think the fund that McCain and Aaron may draw from if necessary (and perhaps others later, but Aaron probably has the most immediate need) is here.
Done, I’m sending a hundred bucks now. I saw that link but it seemed like Aaron would only get a portion of what I sent but I’ll donate to this one now. Thanks.
Kaisersoze (298188) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:21 pm300 bucks was like in the 80s
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:23 pmSo he retired 7 years ago?
http://www.msa.md.gov/msa/mdmanual/32dc/former/html/msa11890.html
narciso (494474) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:24 pmI agree that a lawyer should take this pro bono. But, without getting into stuff that’s nuny’all business, arrangements for a lawyer could have been made — and (hopefully Aaron realizes) should be made in the future.
And if the cost of having a lawyer is a few days of silence? Well, that in itself serves as a vivid example of what’s going on.
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:24 pmPatterico,
I guess the next question is: Ho does Arron get this overturned or reversed? What is the next step for Arron?
the405 (18da29) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:24 pmhttp://ww2.gazette.net/gazette_archive/2005/200504/aspenhill/news/256951-1.html
narciso (494474) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:25 pmDana it feels wrong to ask Mr. Aaron to stop speaking out
if we weren’t in America it would be different
Happyfeet and JD,
I understand that it seems the antithesis of what we’re about and certainly what Aaron is making a stand for, but the fact of the matter is, it would simply be too easy for him to be lured and baited into a twitter fight and do what he was ordered not to do – this would of course, be the prime motive of BK et al.
Also, it would be so easy for one of them to set up a fake twitter account, and worse start trolling by attributing false statements to Aaron attacking BK, harassing him, etc. I don’t believe Aaron should be distracted by that (and I believe he would as he’s loaded for bear) at this time. His wife needs him. They need to focus on each other and think through their next steps.
There are plenty of us here, both in front of the scenes and behind the scenes that can be his voice for the time being. That’s what friends do for each other. Fill the gap.
Dana (4eca6e) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:26 pmBrandenberg schmandenberg
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:27 pmHe hires the same lawyer who won the appeal of the last peace order, perhaps helped by one of more First Amendment attorneys like Volokh and/or Marc Randazza. Then he goes right back to blogging about Kimberlin the very next day — exercising his First Amendment rights. And he keeps Volokh’s and Randazza’s numbers in his Rolodex.
And don’t tell me nobody has a Rolodex any more. My office mate does! Loves it.
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:27 pmPatterico, I have to go to bed, or I’m going to be crankier than a retired judge sitting in at Christmas.
Please urge Aaron Walker, who really seems like a very nice guy, to get a lawyer. Even if it means going quiet for a whole year, it’s got to be better than the evident confusion and strife heading into farce that was related today.
Dianna (f12db5) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:28 pmI am told Kimberlin was waving around a piece of paper that purportedly had a threatening email from Aaron, that was not actually sent by Aaron, according to a source.
Not that Kimberlin would ever manufacture evidence or anything.
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:29 pmI will continue to do so — just as I did this past weekend.
This time I think he’ll listen.
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:29 pmI wish I had a bottle of DRJ pills I could use to think coolly and clearly when I’m outraged.
—
JD, Dana, your sentiment is noble and I think Aaron very much sees this as a fight for free speech. It is a hard thing to accept that he may need to let others carry the torch for a while.
It’s clear that the Maryland court system is being manipulated incredibly well. Aaron needs a great lawyer. As Patterico says, if the cost is a period of silence, that is something I hope he accepts.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:29 pmI get your point Dana but Aaron needs to stand tall and unyielding while his wife needs to have an affair with a sparkly vampire
nobody’s thinking of the movie rights
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:30 pmWow. I saw some traffic that Aaron would be in for a “big surprise” at his hearing.. I guess he was very much surprised.
Amazing that Kimberlin has enough pull to get a judge on a holiday weekend Sunday.
kringeesmom (c3ca07) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:30 pmPatterico,
Thanks for the reply! Its good to know this can be appealed.
the405 (18da29) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:31 pmWas any evidence entered into the record today, or did BK just whine about how he hates free speech?
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:31 pmIt won’t.
And even I, the soul of prudence, would probably not advise him to go quiet for a year.
I think Aaron is serious about being a stand-up guy for free speech. If that means more incarceration and going to the U.S. Supreme Court, I think he’d do it. And frankly? We need some of that kind of spirit.
Honestly, if the issue is as clear-cut as it seems — I said IF — then I have to applaud that sort of stance.
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:31 pmI get that hf.
Then aaron needs to help himself out. Interrupting and then boring the living sh** out of the judge will bring you an undying enmity. When a judge chooses a convicted bomber over you…. he doesn’t want thirty pages more of minute facts… he thinks you are a tendentious pain in the butt..
I know life is hard and lawyers are not cheap… I’ve used my credit card to pay for them and bail bondsmen several times. I think aaron has the type of naivete Kimberlin talks about… he can represent himself… and even some lawyers can’t outdo him at his specialty.
So get out the plastic and hire someone good. Or else you give the bomber guy a huge present.
(i’ know money is tough, but I have a card I only periodically use for small stuff that has a $25K limit that is for emergencies. That 25K is for bail and lawyers and emergency rooms in foreign lands, medevacs from a remote surf spot in Indonesia)
SteveG (831214) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:32 pmI see I confused Dana’s comment for another and Dana is actually arguing what I’m arguing. My mistake.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:32 pmSheridan seems to be doing some incitement in those tweets, but I don’t know nothing from nuffing.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:32 pmThe potential for further disaster for Aaron via a set-up is simply too strong a possibility. This is a viciously shrewd and calculating enemy, and I’m very concerned that he won’t have the self-restraint and discernment necessary to avoid a fight if he’s online.
Dana (4eca6e) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:33 pmBut of course, that’s easy for me to say. Sitting in my kitchen 3000 miles away getting ready to work on my trial.
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:34 pm#50 I was thinking the same thing. It had to take some pull to get a judge on Sunday.
#49 I’m thinking Adam Baldwin can play Aaron in the movie….
Dustyn H (ebe03e) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:34 pmSteveG – Ima dip into the hourly adult companion fund.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:35 pmSheridan could be sued for all she is worth, if she were worth anything. She regularly says the most crazy, defamatory, false crap imaginable.
She is less than worthless.
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:35 pmyes those cards are important Mr. G but call and check the interest rate from time to time (mine won’t show me online unless I actually have charges on it) – my emergency one like that got all double-digit interest rate when I wasn’t looking so now once a year I call and they lower it two points or whatever
you have to stay on top of these people
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:36 pmI think Aaron is serious about being a stand-up guy for free speech. If that means more incarceration and going to the U.S. Supreme Court, I think he’d do it. And frankly? We need some of that kind of spirit.
I believe he’s very serious about standing up for free speech. Tenaciously so. And yes, his courage and bravery is admirable and certainly inspiring to many. However, prudence and clear thinking are necessary. One has to let the roiling emotions etc settle.
Dana (4eca6e) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:39 pmFeh…
courage and bravery
Dana (4eca6e) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:40 pmisare admirableI don’t see any reason for him to go silent. Nothing he said up to now was actionable, absent a dummerer than a sack of kmart’s judge.
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:44 pmA very noble sentiment, but consider who we are dealing with, and almost as significantly those
narciso (494474) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:47 pmwho stand behind Kimberlin, leading foundations and personalities, even the participation of financial institutions, not too mention, key members of the political structure, from the city hall, to about
50 miles Southwest.
You can’t really say that Aaron “only wanted to report the story accurately”. That contradicts the reports coming out today.
The judge specifically asked Aaron what he wanted, and Aaron’s answer was a little more detailed than merely “being accurate”. Aaron stated that he wanted to get the State’s attorneys office to file charges against Kimberlin. That was (is) his goal.
So you have a bit of a disconnect. On the one hand, you’ve got Aaron saying “I don’t want any harassment of Kimberlin”, but you’ve also got him admitting that he was actively trying to get the State to file charges against Kimberlin by raising public awareness. I think Aaron tried to straddle those two positions, and I’m not sure they jibe that well.
Kman (073043) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:48 pmi am guessing Aaron represented himself because he didn’t have a job. $$$$ While Kimberlin has soros and streisand money.
I read Aaron’s content when it first came out and he did leave out information about his opponents to discourage any type of vigilantism. He had faith in the system and enthusiasm for the law and a distaste for bad guys. It’s all over his writing.
If Drudge doesn’t post this well….. What would breitbart do? Yesterday I thought something like this could only happen in a backward islamic state like Iran.
jd2 (40a8c6) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:48 pmCan you tell us where you got this information from, Patterico? That was my initial understanding from reading Ace’s coverage, among others, but then I read TheBlaze’s contention that Aaron was arrested for Second Degree Assault. And that reporting discrepancy has caused a lot of confusion, albeit some interesting discussion related to (hopefully) peripheral legal matters.
Needless to say, I stand opposed to any arrest of Aaron under his First Amendment protected free speech right to blog. If he directly contacted Kimberlin, by emailing him a link to a post or whatnot, that would be different, but I’m sure Aaron was smart enough not to do that.
A “Google alert” is voluntary as is following Twitter hashtags or, for that matter, reading newspaper articles about one. These are closer to saying or writing a person’s name rather than trying to contact someone.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:50 pmKman, Aaron does believe Kimberlin committed a crime and was in court to make that case. Aaron also told his readers to not do violence. It seems consistent to me.
jd2 (40a8c6) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:50 pmHonestly, it’s like the law doesn’t even matter anymore, as long as there is some powerful interest
narciso (494474) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:50 pmwilling to bend it to their needs.
I suppose you’ve seen jrmp dot org’s thinly veiled threat to us all on their May 25 post. “Please note that we are working closely with both state and federal law enforcement officials and have given them lists of all those who make inappropriate statements or contacts.” I suddenly want to use profanity in response to them, but I won’t. Blank them and all the lefties who fund them.
Jen (b310b0) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:50 pmWanting someone to be charged for a crime that person has committed is not harassment.
Have Blue (8743b5) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:50 pmKman thinks I am harassing murderers when I file valid murder charges on them.
Kman, you built up a store of credibility when you stood up to Ron Brynaert.
It’s quite amazing how quickly and carelessly you’re squandering it.
Is your hatred for Aaron so very great that you’re willing to misstate facts (as you did with the timing of the 28,000 word post, without apology), or compare the seeking of potentially valid charges to “harassment”? Or any of the other somersaults you have turned recently to defend the indefensible?
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:52 pmFiling charges against someone ≠ harassment in and of itself. So there is no necessary disconnect here.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:52 pm“I don’t want any harassment of Kimberlin”, but you’ve also got him admitting that he was actively trying to get the State to file charges against Kimberlin by raising public awareness
You are such a tendentious twatwaffle, kmart. Having a desire to see the State do the right thing, and pushing for same, is not in the same league as harassment, or inciting death threats. Raising public awareness is not harassment, except to people like you who hate free speech and seek to obscure the truth.
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:53 pmIMO Aaron should line up the big guns of the First Amendment and blog, blog, blog. The trouble is a lot of people don’t think this is that important. The point above about Zimmerman getting some journalist in legal trouble also is a good one.
jd2 (40a8c6) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:53 pmThe Blaze simply got it wrong. But I will say that I understand the arresting deputy may have stated in error (for reasons described in the post) that the charge was 2d degree assault, at the moment he arrested Aaron.
But he was wrong. I am confident of that.
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:54 pmAnyway, Patterico, a closer reading shows you answered my question about your source as well as you’re inclined to now in your post. I accept that.
So the second degree assault arrest is simply false. Thanks for the clarification.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:54 pmThe 2nd degree assault nonsense was previously dismissed, no?
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:55 pmDustin, does sound like extreme ignorance played a role.
Harrison (975823) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:56 pmI don’t know, Kman. I think your post is inciting bad people to write threatening things to Aaron. Maybe you need a Peace Order.
For certain, you need some class. Honesty is not the same as tactlessness.
Simon Jester (9dfff7) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:57 pmI’m torn between donating to Aaron’s legal defense fund, and Stranahan’s reward fund to out the Swatter, and I can’t do both. Why don’t we have the Conservative equilavent of the National Layer’s Guild?
sybilll (afd864) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:00 pmAnyway and even though the second degree assault arrest report was wrong, my criticism of Aaron’s actions and especially explanations over the iPad incident under the prior post should show, once again, the wisdom of the admonition: “If suspected of a crime, shut up and get a lawyer!” I am sure no lawyer would have advised 3 explanations. 😉
Back to the pertinent bit: it’s shocking that Aaron was arrested on these unconstitutional grounds.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:00 pmCoins aren’t just for buying adult novelties in dodgy bar bathrooms, you know.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:03 pmcough.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:04 pmThis isn’t about incitement to violence. It’s about getting others to do what Aaron himself couldn’t do because of a peace order against him.
Let me give an parallel example. Suppose Joe Smith’s estranged wife gets a restraining order against Joe, stating that he can’t harass her. And what Joe does is, instead of contacting her (which is verbotten), he starts saying things about her to everybody, including making criminal allegations which he believes to be true. Now, he hasn’t DIRECTLY harassed her, yet the effect is the same. A court could conclude that Joe has violated the restraining order.
I THINK this is what the court’s reasoning is here. Aaron essentially did — indirectly through his blog — what he was barred from doing directly. That’s my reading of the account at IBD.
Kman (073043) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:04 pmThere is a reason why Kimberlin lives in Maryland. I have no idea why anyone else would. I think Kimberlin and the thugs in Baltimore deserve each other, but why does anyone else live there? Is it the high murder rate that is so appealing? The crazy high taxes?
Kevin (5cc325) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:05 pm(the above was from Ron to Joe Brooks, not Kman, but I do not accept that everyone ‘dissing’ Ron is sincere about it… some are probably thinking along the lines of the above’s link: you’ve been left alone)
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:06 pmWhat the hell does that mean, Dustin?
Kman (073043) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:07 pmYou are well and truly an imbecile, kmart. Is Brett paying you?
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:07 pmI know it sounds selfish, but I am tapped out except for the emergency fund… and I forget to put the college tuition bill in there. In this economy tuition got stuffed into the budget as an “emergency”
SteveG (831214) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:08 pmI can’t contribute right now
If it wasn’t for the First Amendment, maybe.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:09 pmThat was a joke, by the way. Though there is precious little light between your defense of BK, NR and RB and what a paid spokesdouche would say.
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:09 pmCorrect.
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:09 pmI haven’t been left alone. He tried (unsuccessfully) to get me fired. And after months of silence, I got two emails from him on Friday, containing threats, for my support of Aaron and “leaking” things to Aaron.
Kman (073043) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:12 pmExcept that Joe’s wife is a public figure, and Joe is just a blogger, and they never had an adversarial relationship until Joe’s wife created one by whining about Joe’s totally legitimate criticism of Joe’s wife’s negative actions as a public figure.
Seriously: you are advocating for the abolition of the right to blog about public figures.
I am considering a new fund: to buy a time machine and a plane ticket and send Kman back to Stalinist Russia. He’d be far more comfortable there. He is a poor fit for a freedom loving America.
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:12 pm______________________________________________
the judge said he didn’t care about Brandenburg.
As with the case of the editor at Wikipedia being a ding-dong leftist, can the ideological sentiments of the judge in Maryland also be scrutinized and determined? Scratch below the surface, and I bet his profile will be one of a corrupt (certainly in terms of a flaky, sloppy philosophy), dyed-in-the-wool-Democrat, ambulance-chasing-sympathizing jurist.
In too many instances — not all, mind you, but in so many of them — whenever some idiocy is up for discussion, or some foolish person is being analyzed, invariably the ideology at the core of the matter or the person him or herself is of the left.
Mark (99faad) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:12 pmWhat did you do to provoke him, Ken?
I think he should get a peace order against you.
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:13 pmMaybe kmart could cite the precedents governing these types of issues. Brandenberg? Rowan? Cassidy?
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:14 pm85.
I’m torn between donating to Aaron’s legal defense fund, and Stranahan’s reward fund to out the Swatter, and I can’t do both.
Coins aren’t just for buying adult novelties in dodgy bar bathrooms, you know.
Comment by Random — 5/29/2012 @ 10:03 pm
sybilll (afd864) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:14 pmMy bigger point was that we need the equivalent of the NLG (even though my Freudian slip calling it the Layer’s Guild fits). I have opted to donate to the Swatter fund. Seems to kill more birds with one stone, and I’d be shocked if a pro bono lawyer does not step forward to assist Aaron.
Hold on. Who tried to get you fired? Brett or Ron?
Who sent you emails on Friday? Brett or Ron?
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:14 pmWell, that’s where the court is going to run into trouble, obviously.
Of course, ANY “peace order” is antithetical to the First Amendment, isn’t it?
Kman (073043) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:15 pmDefinitely he should be forbidden from publicly saying things like the bolded part above. Just think — hundreds of people will read that. It’s harassment of Kimberlin!
By, er, not talking to him.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:16 pmPatterico at 102:
Sorry for the confusion. I was responding to Dustin at #86.
The answer to both your questions is Ron.
Kman (073043) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:16 pmKmart hates free speech. Hates clarity. And is a obsessed clown.
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:17 pm_________________________________________
and send Kman back to Stalinist Russia. He’d be far more comfortable there.
People like that are pathetic if they’re past their, say, 30th or 40th birthday. I have a tougher time being as exasperated with a dumb-dumb liberal when he or she is still rather young. But when they’re well past their grade-school and college years, and are shooting towards middle-aged, there has to be something intrinsically wrong with them to still be beholden to left-leaning biases (Hello, Barack! Hello, typical Hollywood celebrity!). Call it a case of arrested maturity.
Mark (99faad) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:18 pmKman, please tell me where you stand on Kimberlin’s nonpayment of a wrongful death judgment in 1997.
I just read a post of yours acting as though his wrongful behavior is way in the past, more than 30 years ago.
So. Did Sandra DeLong’s widow deserve to be paid, Kman?
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:19 pmNo.
It’s different. Aaron wasn’t spamming Kimberlin’s friends: he was posting on his own blog and Twitter account. Kimberlin and Kimberlin’s friends aren’t obligated to read it.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:19 pmNope.
Not if you actually understand the First Amendment.
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:21 pmPatterico – kmart doesn’t know if Kimberlin is reformed.
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:21 pmI hope we didn’t lose him just as I started to ask tough questions.
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:24 pmI’m wasn’t advocating ANYTHING by that comment. I was trying to explain what I believe the court’s rationale was.
Kman (073043) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:25 pmGoodnight. Thanks for this post. It provides clarity, as opposed to kmart, who strives to muddy the simplest of facts.
Save it, Patterico. He doesn’t know if Kimberlin is reformed.
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:26 pmAs I understand the First Amendment,
There can be no prior restraint unless there is a clear and present danger;
It cannot ever be restrained ex parte.
nk (875f57) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:29 pmI don’t care about it any more or any less than any one of the tens of thousands of unpaid judgments that happen all the time. And what’s more… I don’t think most people care, except that Kimberlin’s name is involved.
Kman (073043) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:31 pmMoral equivalence. Feigned indifference. Everybody does it. TRIFECTA !!!!!!
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:32 pmIf Aaron has kids he should step back. If not, and his wife supports him, he should be blogging about Kimberlin right now. Screw that judge.
BradnSA (980254) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:33 pmThese clowns are not worth engaging, JD. Your business. I talk to people who want to listen, these days.
nk (875f57) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:36 pmA day of reckoning is coming for Mr. Kimberlin. He thinks that once he starts these trains down the track he is in control.
But I have been reading the appeal from the first Peace Order obtained by Kimberlin. The proceedings involving issuance of the order take place in District Court — like today’s proceedings. Appeals of the Peace Order go to the Circuit Court.
During the appeal from the first Order the Circuit Judge makes clear he’s going to enforce the rules of evidence, and Kimberlin is completely lost representing himself. The hearing started badly and went downhill from there.
Kimberlin can only go to this well so many times before the Circuit Court judges are going to put a stop to this.
More to follow.
shipwreckedcrew (b14677) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:49 pmI will contribute to Aaron’s defense, but first I want some assurance that he’s actually going to get a lawyer next time he’s in court! Patterico, let us know when you think you’ve convinced him.
Joe (b9dd11) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:51 pmSophistry.
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:56 pmIOW, you mean Maryland has a law that makes commiting a violation of someone’s civil rights under color of law very, very easy to do?
Brett Kimberlin could be in really big trouble.
Micha Elyi (57bab2) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:56 pmYou’re the dude who pretended Kimberlin had done no wrong since 30+ years ago.
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:57 pmPeace orders sound unconstitutional. Sure, you can restrain someone from coming in contact with another person, if appropriate.
But restricting free speech is contra the principles of this country.
AZ Bob (1c9631) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:12 pmPatterico:
My information is that the judge claimed that Walker violated the provision against electronic communication with Kimberlin, because Aaron blogged about Kimberlin — thus “inciting” others to contact Kimberlin.
— Aaron directly initiated electronic communication with Kimberlin? Not that we know of. Aaron requested/directed his readership to personally contact Kimberlin by electronic means? Somebody help me out here; did he do this? Aaron is personally responsible for what other people independently choose to do?
In other words, as best as I can tell, Aaron Walker was arrested today in the United States of America for blogging about a public figure.
— In his spare time the judge is a volunteer Wiki editor.
Sheridan@OccupyRebellion:
Icy (74fb18) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:14 pmAaron Worthing is in prison now. Whose[sic] next?
— Wow, Maryland IS harsh! Just an arrest for a misdemeanor lands a person in PRISON? Yikes!
No.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:15 pmIt seems this arrest warrant was a separate action filed over the weekend based on the temporary (uncontested) order and served on Aaron at the hearing. It had nothing directly to do with the hearing itself, although had he had competent Maryland counsel and won the case, the judge might have been motivated to stop an arrest based on the temporary order.
But as has been posted, this judge probably never deals with issues of constitutional law like Brandenburg v Ohio, so he may not even be aware that “inciting” has to be pretty direct before the state has an interest in it. He’s an administrative judge, a retired one at that hearing cases on senior status. Both parties flood him with info, he has no way to digest it all, Worthing appears pro se and gets emotional, what would he do besides grant the Peace Order?
The order reads as if he has no clerical help.
Estragon (ec6a4b) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:17 pmIt’s not 100%.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:18 pmYup.
To sum up: he’s worthless and does not belong on the bench.
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:24 pmYou can kinda tell OccupyRebellion is frustrated.
I think you know what I mean.
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:26 pmMaybe it’s best for Aaron to keep his mouth shut and his fingers off the keyboard… for a while, until this whole thing is cleared up. Let us all fight this one for him: he’s wounded, as far as I’m concerned.
The irony of all this is that MD was founded as a refuge for Catholics who faced persecution in England for their religious beliefs: it was a place of freedom for them. Now MD is a “refuge” for a terrorist and a bane of lovers of freedom… Go figure.
I’d recommend Aaron to move himself and his family out that $#!%%y state after this whole thing is over.
newton (109031) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:29 pmHe doesn’t live in Maryland.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:32 pmEstragon,
It’s a shame. This could have played out much differently.
I’ve tried to explain to others that this is not a simple case. It is not clear. It is dense and very difficult to explain or understand. At root are some very basic morals and truths that give those close to the situation the notion it’s a simple case. Aaron is telling the truth. Brett is framing him and engaging in lawfare. Freedom to criticize a public figure is our right.
But when you first encounter the lies, it gets complicated fast. I can only imagine trying to learn how Google searches work or what twitter is while wading through all of Kimberlin’s lies…
For there to be justice, there needs to be effort on the part of judges and prosecutors to learn. And demand evidence every time Kimberlin opens his mouth.
A lot of people in the field of law read this blog. You are a potential source of misery for others if you do not strive to learn everything you can. don’t be like the judge today, ruling on a case you obviously don’t understand, saying Brandemberg Shmandemberg (h/t JD).
I have seen this lack of effort from Maryland, and it seems to be widespread there. It seems to be the culture there. I have almost no faith in the judicial system there. What little I have is from the case where Aaron brought a lawyer, so I hope that’s the magic key.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:33 pmOh, you didn’t know? Aaron doesn’t even live in Maryland. They are angry about what he blogged when in Virginia.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:34 pmThis whole thing just makes me sick. I literally feel like I may throw up.
Jim S. (049d9d) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:41 pmOn the one hand, you’ve got Aaron saying “I don’t want any harassment of Kimberlin”, but you’ve also got him admitting that he was actively trying to get the State to file charges against Kimberlin by raising public awareness. I think Aaron tried to straddle those two positions, and I’m not sure they jibe that well.
Comment by Kman — 5/29/2012 @ 9:48 pm
— By this little bit of illogic, Trayvon’s parents and their attorneys should have been arrested weeks ago.
Let me give an parallel example. Suppose Joe Smith’s estranged wife gets a restraining order against Joe, stating that he can’t harass her. And what Joe does is, instead of contacting her (which is verbotten), he starts saying things about her to everybody, including making criminal allegations which he believes to be true. Now, he hasn’t DIRECTLY harassed her, yet the effect is the same. A court could conclude that Joe has violated the restraining order.
Comment by Kman — 5/29/2012 @ 10:04 pm
— So . . . you’re saying that the things Aaron has said about Kimberlin are things that he merely “believes to be true”? Funny, we thought that he WAS reporting The Truth; but, YMMV.
I haven’t been left alone. He tried (unsuccessfully) to get me fired. And after months of silence, I got two emails from him on Friday, containing threats, for my support of Aaron and “leaking” things to Aaron.
Comment by Kman — 5/29/2012 @ 10:12 pm
— So, WHAT are you doing about it?
Of course, ANY “peace order” is antithetical to the First Amendment, isn’t it?
Comment by Kman — 5/29/2012 @ 10:15 pm
— Yep, you got it. Libel? Can’t happen. Slander? Puh-leaze! People can write or say whatever-T-F they want about ANYthing or ANYone.
[BTW, a source close to Kman reports that when he buggers goats — which is EVERY night — he neither wears protection nor has the courtesy to give the kid a reach-around.]
[And by “kid” we believe that the source was still referring to the goat . . . we think.]
[And hope . . .]
Icy (74fb18) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:41 pmTo sum up: he’s worthless and does not belong on the bench.
Comment by Patterico — 5/29/2012 @ 11:24 pm
— Well, there’s one more state where you can’t obtain a license to practice law!
Icy (74fb18) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:46 pm😉
I’m still looking for an explanation of how he got out of prison in 2001.
Milhouse (312124) — 5/30/2012 @ 12:14 amAlso, I understand that judges have absolute immunity, but don’t sheriff’s deputies have only qualified immunity? Doesn’t that mean that anyone who arrests AW for violating an obviously unconstitutional order is subject to a Bivens suit?
Milhouse (312124) — 5/30/2012 @ 12:24 amIs inciting others to make threats even illegal?
Milhouse (312124) — 5/30/2012 @ 12:26 amOn the one hand, you’ve got Aaron saying “I don’t want any harassment of Kimberlin”, but you’ve also got him admitting that he was actively trying to get the State to file charges against Kimberlin by raising public awareness.
How can any sane person see those two goals as contradictory? Kimberlin committed a crime. Multiple crimes. It is not harassment to tell people about it, and try to create public pressure on the authorities to get them to do their f—ing job and charge the bastard.
Milhouse (312124) — 5/30/2012 @ 12:37 amJudges do not have absolute immunity. One, that I know off, shot himself in the head, so he would not go to prison.
And inciting others to make illegal threats is illegal. The crime is called “solicitation”.
nk (875f57) — 5/30/2012 @ 12:41 amYou know, if the FEC has its way and starts going after political bloggers, there will be a lot more of this.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 5/30/2012 @ 12:43 amPutting somebody in reasonable fear of unwanted touch is “asault”. But … there is a very big range of exceptions and defenses.
nk (875f57) — 5/30/2012 @ 12:50 amNo, it could not. The first amendment prevents it.
Milhouse (312124) — 5/30/2012 @ 12:51 amNo. Because harassment isn’t protected by the first amendment. Actual harassment, that is. Telling the world at large the truth about someone is not harassment and is protected.
Milhouse (312124) — 5/30/2012 @ 12:55 amWhen will the conservative attorneys realize – it’s fixed. This is just the start , the streets will be where this fight ends up. And the lawyers will need the help of the working stiff. Free Speech is worth dying for.
mg (44de53) — 5/30/2012 @ 1:08 amSo if I were to write something negative in a blog post here in Texas about a public figure in Maryland and that Maryland public figure gets a “peace order” after the blog post and a 3rd party in Oklahoma then writes a comment on my blog in response like “someone should pay a visit and kick his ass” after the “peace order” was issued and the Maryland public figure then uses Google to find the obscure 3rd party “threat” on my blog, I could end up having to deal with a court in Maryland? Even if I win, I still lose a lot of time and money just traveling across the country to defend myself. WTF?!
George B (aff018) — 5/30/2012 @ 1:16 amComment by George B — 5/30/2012 @ 1:16 am
Just what I was thinking. So if Aaron did not show up in MD court there would be a judgement on the books against him? Would that sit there until he was found in MD, or could h be arrested in VA over it?
I understand this can happen in MD, but no other states? (The part about any citizen filing a charge).
Is it possible that BK not only manipulated the situation by the surprise/stealth charge, but had some awareness or influence into who the judge would be?
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 5/30/2012 @ 1:56 amI think he meant from civil judgements for their rulings. Not even the President has absolute immunity for crimes.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/30/2012 @ 2:08 amI’m sorry. If I had money to give, I’d contribute. As is, I’m barely keeping my head above water.
But this is ridiculous.
Question: What authority does Maryland have over Aaron? I mean, if he’s not in Maryland, would this be a problem for him? Also, how the heck do you deal with a problem like this without lots of money? I respect attorneys and their right to charge a living wage, but it might be worth it to create a Kimberlin Defense Guide or something.
OmegaPaladin (a63d4d) — 5/30/2012 @ 2:41 amI’d love to contribute to your legal defense fund, but you “require” my employers name and occupation, as well as my phone number. Too much information, guys. My giving you money should not result in a phone call, and certainly where I work is none of your business. Good luck.
Sweetbriar (dc8a9e) — 5/30/2012 @ 3:08 am“There is a legal defense fund for Aaron, Stacy McCain, and others financially harmed by Kimberlin’s stalkerish ways. Contribute”
You’re kidding, right? Give my name, address, and credit card (or check number) to an organization whose records can be divulged by court order to Brett Kimberlin, his allies and his toadies? So that I, too, can become a target of activists. I’m too cowardly for that.
ErisGuy (c0929d) — 5/30/2012 @ 4:43 amAt #141, Milhouse asks:
That’s a valid question, but it’s not the question here. The question here is:
Actually, there are three questions if you’re looking for the best framework to discuss this:
1. Did Aaron incite others to make threats or harass?
2. Is inciting others to make threats a violation of the peace order?
3. Are the actions which comprise the supposed “incitement” protected by the First Amendment?
Kman (073043) — 5/30/2012 @ 4:58 amWhy am I not surprised that this happened in the People’s Republic of Maryland?
physics geek (6669a4) — 5/30/2012 @ 5:02 amAccording to Stacy McCain, Kimberlin has a wealthy aunt, [object TextRange], 66, reportedly an heiress to the General Mills fortune, was one of the original donors to the Threshold Foundation, which contributed $20,000 to Kimberlin’s Justice Through Music Project in 2008, according to database research I reported May 19.
This may explain Kimberlin’s access to the courts and to lawyers who can help him create the legal webs he spins to ensnare his victims.
Moneyrunner (a9c0f0) — 5/30/2012 @ 5:04 amSorry for the messed up link. The aunt’s name is Harriet Crosby
Moneyrunner (a9c0f0) — 5/30/2012 @ 5:07 am1. Did Aaron incite others to make threats or harass? Nope
2. Is inciting others to make threats a violation of the peace order? Didn’t happen, so no relevant
3. Are the actions which comprise the supposed “incitement” protected by the First Amendment? Everything in question is protected speech
Your sophistry is tiring.
JD (bd887a) — 5/30/2012 @ 5:08 amI wrote the Maryland AG at oag@oag.state.md.us and asked that he please review the situation. This seems like a complete travesty. Tell me, who would you be more afraid of? Someone who opines on the Internet or a proven convicted terrorist who actually committed 8 bombings? What a joke! In any reasonable mind the writer deserves protection from someone who is obviously capable of mayhem and mass destruction not vice versa. Up is down, right is wrong and I will never visit Maryland!
TexasMom2012 (cee89f) — 5/30/2012 @ 5:17 amThis is why I question your legal acumen, kbag! Before any of those questions are relevant, an uderstanding of the tecnology(Twitter and Google) needs to be determined. If a judge doesn’t comprehend the mechanics, he should grant a hearing so the parties involved can present their arguments, and a proper ruling can be made.
Mindreading doesn’t seem to be part of your skillset either.
∅ (721840) — 5/30/2012 @ 5:37 amHere’s an easy way to get Aaron money: buy his self-published novel on Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Archangel-Alternate-Recent-History-ebook/dp/B006WSFCPM
clazy8 (277e61) — 5/30/2012 @ 5:39 amHow can a temp. peace order issued EX PARTE (no notice to other side) on 5/19–saturday–be made PERMANENT on 5/22, tuesday–NO REASONABLE OPPORTUNITY TO RESPOND!! Where is due process?
Here in FL, respondent must be served process before 1st hearing, and is entitled to 2d later hearing (~3-5 weeks later) if they need time to round up witnesses.
WTF is wrong w/MD?
JewishOdysseus (57038c) — 5/30/2012 @ 5:40 amAaron seems unwell.
I fully understand that he is under a great deal of stress but he is a highly-educated lawyer who did not execute even the most rudimentary tactical defenses, such as securing counsel for a process where many actors (the Judge, for instance) are of dubious skill.
The violent preposterousness of this all aside, He has known for a while that courts would be involved and that his emotional state was–quite understandably–agitated.
This process needs to be directed FOR Aaron. His judgement is not sound.
Rod Boyd (fa3dce) — 5/30/2012 @ 5:41 amActually, Dana, no we can’t, according to Judge Vaughey. Doesn’t matter if Aaron shuts up or not, anything we say will be cited by BK as further examples of Aaron “contacting” him, and the Judge will agree.
The Judge would probably also agree if BK were to file conspiracy charges against Aaron and any or all of the bloggers who have written about BK.
SDN (a69a37) — 5/30/2012 @ 5:44 amA Kimberlin ally could simply post threats in Aaron’s comments. The judge could ignorantly blame Aaron.
Amphipolis (d3e04f) — 5/30/2012 @ 5:45 amGee Rod, could it be that Aaron didn’t want to expose another human being to Kimberlin’s tactics. Afterall, Aaron got dragged into this as pro bono counsel. The system failed Aaron, and the judge is at fault for allowing such a travesty to occur.
∅ (721840) — 5/30/2012 @ 5:46 amI had to go to court once to appear as an expert witness in an obscene phone call case. I was a technician and brought the logs with me that get generated when customers contacted the phone company with complaints. This was back in the early 1990’s before Caller ID. We’d put your number up on trap and you’d keep a log with the dates and times of the calls and we’d find the logs.
I’ll tell you something. That experience soured me on the courts for life. The judge was a tyrant. He was rude and nasty. I can’t even describe what an a-hole that judge was to the lawyers that day. It was family court because the “suspect” was a teenage boy, and the room was very small but the judge had a microphone and he pretty much screamed into it. He was rude to both lawyers but he was especially nasty to the prosecutor who was much younger than the other guy. The judge was probably in his 60’s.
Oh, man. The case ended up dismissed because the prosecutor failed to amend the arrest report with the dates of the calls that my logs showed. It was a shame because the kid was there with his mother, who was a real piece of work, and they were gloating about getting away with it. I felt so bad for the victim. But that judge? Oh, man. I would NOT want to be a trial lawyer.
Jaynie59 (058ebb) — 5/30/2012 @ 6:01 amThere wasn’t much left over in my checkbook after paying bills and buying food with my pitiful SS and pension checks but I threw what I could into the pot for legal defense.
Even if you can only contribute twenty dollars, do that. It’s not just the money…it’s the expression of support.
As far as Kimberlin getting my name and address from my contribution form, I sincerely hope he does so and pays me a visit or files suit (though he’d have to lie through his teeth to do so. I have been down this road before. Practice makes perfect.
Patrick, I too have to ask about jurisdictional issues. How does a Maryland court have jurisdiction over a resident of Virginia? And given that one of the court’s orders was thrown out (I think) isn’t there room for arguing res judicata or, maybe better, collateral estoppel?
creeper (f1f686) — 5/30/2012 @ 6:14 amBase on what I’ve read, it does seem the judge erred. What is the next best move?
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/30/2012 @ 6:33 amErred is a nice way to describe that uninformed mess.
JD (bd887a) — 5/30/2012 @ 6:38 amHow could they not find a sitting judge, to hear this case?
narciso (494474) — 5/30/2012 @ 6:41 amerred is a nice way of putting it, Sarah. He made a ruling based on ignorance. How long could you keep your job if you acted in such a reckless manner? The judge’s ignorance sent Aaron to jail, which is judicial misconduct(at best).
∅ (721840) — 5/30/2012 @ 6:42 amSingle-party rule and that single party is up to its eyeballs in this.
Rob Crawford (6c262f) — 5/30/2012 @ 6:49 amWhat is the next best move?
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/30/2012 @ 6:52 amNext best move – hire an atty and appeal to real judges. Maybe require evidence be presented.
JD (bd887a) — 5/30/2012 @ 6:54 amQuestions for the lawyers:
1) Did Aaron violate the peace order by continuing to blog critically about BK?
2) Is it likely that a judge would find that a blogger ordered not to harass someone in a peace order was being defiant to the Court if he continued to critically blog about the person?
3) Is it likely that a judge would be even more inclined to find a defendant in violation of a peace order if that defendant is an attorney?
Sam (8bd5ad) — 5/30/2012 @ 7:04 amAaron should appeal this order, SarahW. Hopefully the appeals court will terminate the Final Peace Order (so Aaron can blog again) and give Maryland’s district court judges direction regarding how and when to curtail online speech. My guess is the appeals court will simply set aside the Final Peace Order as overly broad. However, the court could issue a lengthy opinion on the First Amendment issues. If so, then Aaron could end up as an Internet version of Rosa Parks.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/30/2012 @ 7:06 amThey found a guy who was hearing cases in Maryland before the Civil War.
Doesn’t even know what blogs and the internet are but I’ll bet he could give you an in depth history and technological lesson about the telegraph machine.
John Difool (4251ee) — 5/30/2012 @ 7:06 amI thought I read that the judge accused Walker of “Googling (Kimberlin) 500,000 times on the Tubes” or something like that. Does the judge have any idea what he’s talking about?
CrustyB (69f730) — 5/30/2012 @ 7:08 am1) no. The peace order does not apply to protected speech, and AW did not contact BK.
JD (bd887a) — 5/30/2012 @ 7:10 am2) likely is not relevant. There is precedent to guide this.
3) Judges are more likely to ignore precedent and the 1st Amendment when attorneys are involved?!
Now I’m not putting down the judge in my comment #179 for not being up to current events and modernization of telecommunications.
I’m sure he was a thorough and pretty effective judge around the time of the Dredd Scott decision.
John Difool (4251ee) — 5/30/2012 @ 7:12 amWhat was the judge played by Ted Knight in Caddy Shack, Smalls something or other
narciso (494474) — 5/30/2012 @ 7:14 am@narciso
Elihu Smails
John Difool (4251ee) — 5/30/2012 @ 7:17 amOne thing I wanted to note was I greatly resent Kman’s reaction to Aaron drawing inspiration from Martin Luther King. Aaron has thought of this as a worthwhile fight for civil rights. He’s paying a heavy price for rights I personally cherish. Aaron’s honoring and reflecting on MLK is a great idea, and he’s noted his admiration for MLK many times, many not in public. That isn’t a show. That is sincere.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/30/2012 @ 7:24 amBloggers: It is time to examine this judge very closely.
AZ Bob (1c9631) — 5/30/2012 @ 7:25 am____________________________________________
quotes the illiterate order of the judge today:
I think the words quoted below (ie, “freak…in Oklahoma” compared with “poor gentleman”) are a window into the mind of the judge, Cornelius Vaughey, who probably is ideologically similar to Wikipedia’s Richard Symonds. People with foolish, idiotic left-leaning biases often can be detected from a million miles away, and Vaughney is triggering the “I’m a dumb liberal” warning siren.
Vaughey is a retired judge and is listed as being born in 1938, making him around 74 years old. I’ve found not much else about him on the Internet — or even less connect-the-dots information regarding his background as there was about the British (likely flaming) liberal who edits Wikipedia. But he apparently is closely affiliated with the Democrat/liberal side of the spectrum.
However, that’s not too surprising since we’re dealing with Maryland, a state where a large majority of its people believe their leftist instincts imbue them with great compassion, tolerance, generosity, humaneness, sophistication and beauty of the soul.
Mark (99faad) — 5/30/2012 @ 7:30 amBloggers: It is time to examine this judge very closely.
Comment by AZ Bob — 5/30/2012 @ 7:25 am
Not sure what good that would do. He is no longer involved. Plus, we already know he is a doddering old fool appointed by the Left.
JD (bd887a) — 5/30/2012 @ 7:33 am@mark
“And so you get some freak out in Oklahoma with nothing better to do with his time, ”
So let me get this straight, Vaughey was comparing Walker to Timothy McVeigh?
Wow.
John Difool (4251ee) — 5/30/2012 @ 7:34 amI think it’s worth the time to examine all of these judges’ donations.
Their behavior is collectively so strange, you have to wonder if it’s just ignorance, or if there’s something else going on.
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/30/2012 @ 7:35 am______________________________________________
Now I’m not putting down the judge in my comment #179 for not being up to current events and modernization of telecommunications.
Modern technology or not, I’m always suspicious about the basic wisdom and common sense — or lack of such — of anyone who’s well past his or her grade-school and college years, and well past his raising-a-family years, but who still leans left. Vaughey is in his 70s, and probably — probably — is not much less liberal today than he was over 50 years ago. I could be wrong, but I suspect I’m not. Vaughey’s probable leftist sentiments, therefore, point to something being intrinsically immature and nonsensical about him.
Mark (99faad) — 5/30/2012 @ 7:39 amThey were pretty upset when Aaron’s proceeding wound up with a certain judge at an earlier point. Maybe he wasn’t on their list?
It doesn’t make sense to me that Kimberlin is described by the judge as “that poor gentleman” Aaron’s supporters as “freaks in Oklahoma”, which as John D noted seems to be a reference to terrorists.
The judge is probably merely incredibly unfair and unreasonable due partly to buying and then investing his own ego into Brett’s lies. But maybe the situation is a lot worse than that. I don’t see the harm in scrutinizing everything about why the injustice yesterday occurred.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/30/2012 @ 7:40 amI haven’t seen someone operate with the impunity that Kimberlin has and catch so many lucky breaks since someone like Whitey Bulger and that was mostly because Bulger was not only a mobster but he was also a paid FBI and police informant and he literally got away with murder for years because of it.
Now I’m gonna put my tin-foil hat on for a second and do some thinking out loud here, but has anyone thought that there’s a real possibility Kimberlin could be a paid FBI informant and that’s why he’s catching all these lucky breaks? We all know his crooked past and what friends & connections he’s probably made along the way.
*takes tin-foil hat off*
John Difool (4251ee) — 5/30/2012 @ 7:43 am______________________________________________
So let me get this straight, Vaughey was comparing Walker to Timothy McVeigh?
Actually, the judge apparently was referring to one of the bloggers who has written about Kimberlin, or the “poor gentleman” whose bomb just about killed one person, and who has a modus operandi of trying to do the same thing to others. But, of course, his heart (Kimberlin’s, if not the wonderful judge’s too) is in the right place, so such people are excused from the reality of their phony, two-faced behavior.
Limousine liberals unite and stand proud!
Mark (99faad) — 5/30/2012 @ 7:46 amI think Kman makes a reasoned point in 87.
Patterico makes a counterpoint in 97.
But isn’t the difference in these points about timing?
Courts have the power to say “freeze” temporarily. Obviously Patterico thinks that they can’t do that even temporarily regarding speech about a “public figure”….but isn’t BK the kind of “public figure” who’s not well-known enough such that it would require a proceeding and arguments to demonstrate to the Court that he, in fact, is?…in which case the Court would still have the power to issue a temporary order that it could expect an attorney to observe (or contest the order civilly in Court…or take it to a higher court), rather than just say “I know better than The Court, so I’ll do as I decide.”
It’s a temporary order that restricts the defendant’s rights until such time that it can be hashed out thoroughly in court. For the reasons kman stated, I’d think we’d all want the courts to have that power…temporarily. For the reasons Patterico stated, I’d think we’d all want the Courts to have the obligation to speedily try cases, find facts, and determine if the order stands or is lifted.
Sam (8bd5ad) — 5/30/2012 @ 7:49 amAlso Whitey Bulger was a powerful State House pol, Speaker in the final years, add to that, at least one of the shooters in the Gus Boulis matter, was an FBI informant, not to mention, one of the lodgers for the 9/11 hijackers in San Diego, anything is possible.
narciso (494474) — 5/30/2012 @ 7:49 am________________________________________________
Their behavior is collectively so strange
Patterico, since you said you’re married to a liberal, and probably through the years have argued with her until you’re blue in the face — and been totally puzzled when she and others of similar bent shrug off two-plus-two-equals-four reality and sentiment — isn’t that your answer right there?
Mark (99faad) — 5/30/2012 @ 7:50 am@mark
I get it, but obviously the judge doesn’t realize how hypocritical a statement that was if he was comparing Walker’s behavior of that to Timothy McVeigh when he’s sitting right in front of a guy who was basically a 1970’s Timothy McVeigh wannabe.
Or he has every idea how ridiculous it sounds but just doesn’t care.
John Difool (4251ee) — 5/30/2012 @ 7:51 amWHY THE HELL DO YOU NEED MY EMPLOYER, DOB, GENDER TO DONATE???? WHAT DAMN BUSINESS IT THAT OF YOURS? IF I’M WILLING TO TRUST YOU WITH MY CREDIT CARD INFO TO TOSS A FEW BUCKS FOR THE DEFENSE FUND, WHAT DOES MY EMPLOYER’S NAME, ESPECIALLY, HAVE TO DO WITH THIS? YOU THINK I WANT TO BE HARASSED AT WORK, HAVE MY JOB THREATENED, HAVE MY EMPLOYER DRAGGED INTO THIS?
GET A CLUE OR BUY A VOWEL.
twolaneflash (40d2b8) — 5/30/2012 @ 7:59 amI’d like to solve the puzzle
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 5/30/2012 @ 8:01 amtwolaneflash,
I believe if you donate via paypal, at this link, they do not ask for that information.
Otherwise, I would consider writing ‘Will not disclose’ in blocks asking for employer information. I suspect your donation will be accepted.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/30/2012 @ 8:02 amI think that Kimberlin’s actual affidavit would be interesting to examine in detail. I’m wondering if he’s committed perjury again.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/30/2012 @ 8:05 amWhere was Aaron on May 22 when the “interim peace order” became a “temporary peace order”? Wasn’t there a court hearing?
Kman (5576bf) — 5/30/2012 @ 8:09 amPerhaps Kimberlin threatened the judge in advance.
drjohn (86fe11) — 5/30/2012 @ 8:13 amYou tell us, Kman.
nk (875f57) — 5/30/2012 @ 8:13 amKmart – that was previously discussed at the time. However, in all cases, you choose ignorance and sophistry.
JD (bd887a) — 5/30/2012 @ 8:14 am[facepalm]
∅ (721840) — 5/30/2012 @ 8:15 amdrjohn,
I do worry that prosecutors who learn more about Kimberlin realize police said they found notes with Kimberlin about killing witnesses and a prosecutor if I recall correctly, and then those prosecutors think… “well hell this is just free speech for some blogger… is it worth Brett’s inevitable attacks on my family?”
That ‘not brett kimberlin’ website has referenced a judge and Aaron’s lawyer. It’s absolutely clear that any judge who doesn’t do what Brett wants becomes fair game. It’s absolutely clear that any prosecutor who presses charges will be subject to the harassment that the bloggers have been subjected to.
To me, this means Brett MUST be prosecuted and press MUST cover this story. Otherwise, they reward thuggery and will surely see more of it from others. A lot of lessons are being learned by the bad guys here.
Nip it in the bud.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/30/2012 @ 8:16 amAaron was wisely avoiding the temporary peace order before he had a case prepared to answer it. Had he shown up practically hours after he learned of that, the hearing could have become an impromptu final peace order hearing that Aaron was not yet prepared for!
That part was not a mistake and it sure doesn’t mean that Aaron gave up any rights. Kman’s ignorance is willful in this case, and that is a consistent issue.
I don’t know what the explanation is for this. I think Kman resents that Aaron is actually a significant hero for free speech. He always seems to want to knock Aaron down a peg or two. This is a peculiar time to do so.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/30/2012 @ 8:18 amAs far as the idea that this is non-partisan due to Seth Allen, the left often makes examples of those who are seen as going off the reservation. Plus attention should be paid to just who showed up in support of BK at the proceeding on Tuesday. NR, Mr. “I’m impossible to find any RW information about” himself.
geoffb (1f4c30) — 5/30/2012 @ 8:20 amBTW,
“Absolute immunity” is only about what is said in court. Libel or slander. And everybody has it, not just the judges.
Perjury is not protected. Contempt of court is not protected. A judge abusing his contempt power or any other part of his authority is not protected.
You speak freely in court, but you walk carefully.
nk (875f57) — 5/30/2012 @ 8:24 amIt’s really up to the left to show this is non partisan by coming to Aaron’s defense on this newsworthy issue relating to free speech.
So far, many lefties have condemned swatting and also been harshly critical of Brett.
There is a partisan nature to Brett’s smears of Karl Rove or Dan Quayle or Breitbart. And that is designed to make liberals think that Brett’s actions are “everything the left holds dear.” But if the pay attention, it’s exactly the opposite. It’s an attack on the most fundamental thing every liberal commenter and blogger holds dear: free speech.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/30/2012 @ 8:26 amAhh, “judicial immunity”.
nk (875f57) — 5/30/2012 @ 8:28 amRelied on it heavily, when I was appealing convictions based on ineffective assistance of counsel. 😉
nk (875f57) — 5/30/2012 @ 8:33 amWell, that’s what I thought. So Kimberlin won it because Aaron defaulted.
I asked the question because Patterico is now writing about Kimberlin’s abuse of the process, but it seems to me — in both Aaron’s and Seth Allen’s case — that Kimberlin’s strategy involves, at least in part, that you have a peace order in place (otherwise the defendant can’t be arrested). And the only way Kimberlin can be assured that a peace order is in place is if the defendant (Allen, Worthing, etc) doesn’t contest it.
By the way, maybe if Aaron had spent less time blogging about his defenses to Kimberlin’s peace order petition, he might have found time to show up in court and actually defend against it. Just my two cents.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/30/2012 @ 8:34 amShorter Kman: look at meeeeeee!
Simon Jester (bbbf60) — 5/30/2012 @ 8:37 amHad this kid. Sent away, as a juvenile, for an indefinite term, for taking a car for a joy ride. His worthless public defender sold him down the river. 37 page transcript, and half of it was the judge explaining the sentence. 37 pages. The kid spent age fifteen to twenty-one in St. Charles. I’m sure he came out a better person.
The appellate court knew the public defender was worthless. But it had to go by the record.
nk (875f57) — 5/30/2012 @ 8:43 amKman would justify attention if he cared enough to read the posts relating to this situation and stopped misstating huge aspects.
He can’t even keep the events in order. That’s understandable, given how much has gone on, and his refusal to consider Aaron’s account.
Ignorance breeds injustice when it comes to Kimberlin.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/30/2012 @ 8:43 amThat is tragic.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/30/2012 @ 8:44 amWhen someone says this, then I’ve heard all I need to know. Anything more is a waste of my time.
There’s very little BAD to say about Kimberlin, except for the hype.
Dana (4eca6e) — 5/30/2012 @ 8:48 am220 – what Kman said.
Dana (4eca6e) — 5/30/2012 @ 8:52 amKmart is practically a mouthpiece for BK.
JD (bd887a) — 5/30/2012 @ 9:02 amThere isn’t anything funny about this case but I admit this quote made me chuckle:
I think the judge was being very unfair to prostitutes.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/30/2012 @ 9:07 amCan we now say that “kman” is short for “kimberlinman” ?
It’s becoming quite apparent.
John Difool (4251ee) — 5/30/2012 @ 9:11 amKman, you pretend to have legal knowledge, you know how ex parte matters work.
Don’t you?
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/30/2012 @ 9:12 amBy the way, regarding the judge’s quote at 223, above:
Is that a reference to the Klan?
If so, I doubt he meant it as an actual Klan reference but it’s a saying that should be retired.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/30/2012 @ 9:35 amDRJ
Not surprising since the judge was retired. Aaron should have no problem appealing to a current practicing Judge who isnt a quarter century out of touch
EricPWJohnson (ab6cc8) — 5/30/2012 @ 9:48 amOf course, the judge must be a clueless leftist, with zero sense. This is how the left operates, use the government to hurt people.
The Borg (62833a) — 5/30/2012 @ 9:49 amWell, which was it? An ex parte hearing? Or a regular hearing in which one party was a no-show?
Dustin seems to suggest it was the latter.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/30/2012 @ 9:59 amSPQR – willful ignorance
JD (bd887a) — 5/30/2012 @ 10:05 amI suspect Aaron has been out of practice.
Aaron!!! Are you within rehearing time? File, a motion for rehearing, and ask for Substitution of Judge. They might tell you, it’s not not the way in that court. You tell them in in writing, “I demand a substitution of judge”. Period. If there is no form, use the trial/jury demand form. But, please, get somebody (a lawyer) to help you, also?
nk (875f57) — 5/30/2012 @ 10:05 amWell, this is comment #229 so I’m sure someone else has already mentioned this, but . . .
Could those idiots on the left who tweet their vitriol PLEASE have the decency to refrain from MURDERING the rules of grammar?!?!?
“whose next???????”
/ba dum bum/
Linda (b21016) — 5/30/2012 @ 10:08 amDo you think the judge is even aware of this controversy being debated today?
It would be nice to think he is now reading posts that explain Aaron’s situation and realizing what is really going on.
Unfortunately, this information is on the internet. It sounds like the judge doesn’t even know how Google works.
But if Brett’s fortune depends on ignorance, that is a weak position. Over time it steadily weakens.
It seems that both Brett AND Aaron lost their battles. Aaron lost a battle for freedom of speech and for justice in a crime he’s the victim of (which apparently the judge thinks is none of Aaron’s business to blog about!?!). Brett lost a battle to contain and shut down criticism of Brett. He lost a battle to convince people he was double secret exonerated. Neal has lost a battle to convince people he can help them manage difficult stories (but he has made a good case that he can do damage to folks if he wants, I have to admit).
Everyone is digging in.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/30/2012 @ 10:09 amThe best legal advice, always, is “get a lawyer”.
Aaron, this is not not a joke. You’re up against a prison b***h. With nothing better to do than file suites. Take care. Real good care.
nk (875f57) — 5/30/2012 @ 10:13 amThank you for the irrelevancy and worthlesness of your comment, Linda.
nk (875f57) — 5/30/2012 @ 10:17 am“Retired judges” are still judges by special appointment, when the bench is too empty. We have a very good bunch up where I’m at. They are good. Intelligent, experienced, educated.
nk (875f57) — 5/30/2012 @ 10:24 amKmart is
practically a mouthpiece forBK.FIFY
The dissembler’s central premise here has always been that Speedway Bomber Brett Kimberlin is “reformed”…a fine, upstanding citizen lo these past thirty years. (This when he’s not attempting to convince us of Speedway Bomber Kimberlin’s bogus convictions and terrible abuse at the hands of the criminal justice system.) He’ll happily whack Brynaert and Rauhauser but Speedway Bomber Brett Kimberlin comes off lily white.
Engaging the sock in debate is foolish. His position is clear and graven in stone. Minor concessions on his part are simply made to sucker you into continuing the dialogue, thus affording him the opportunity for further posts promoting Speedway Bomber Brett Kimberlin.
My first, last and only comment on the subject.
creeper (f1f686) — 5/30/2012 @ 10:30 am…except I never said he was reformed. That makes you the sock.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/30/2012 @ 10:37 amwords fail me, this is just so huge …
ER (2b7697) — 5/30/2012 @ 10:41 amKmart doesn’t know if Kimverlin is reformed.
JD (bd887a) — 5/30/2012 @ 10:48 am“Well, that’s what I thought. So Kimberlin won it because Aaron defaulted.”
“And the only way Kimberlin can be assured that a peace order is in place is if the defendant (Allen, Worthing, etc) doesn’t contest it.”
“By the way, maybe if Aaron had spent less time blogging about his defenses to Kimberlin’s peace order petition, he might have found time to show up in court and actually defend against it. Just my two cents.”
Kman – Nicely done and a total reversal of your stand of just a few days ago when you argued that Aaron should not go to court to defend himself because it just served to further provoke BK.
What happened? Did you actually make it through some of the background material finally and understand the dates?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/30/2012 @ 10:57 amDaley – he shouldn’t defend himself, before he should defend himself.
JD (bd887a) — 5/30/2012 @ 11:01 amJD – That’s different, or something.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/30/2012 @ 11:04 am‘…Aaron’s supporters as “freaks in Oklahoma”,’
Actually, I’m a freak in California, just to keep the record straight.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 5/30/2012 @ 11:05 amI never said Aaron shouldn’t go to court to defend himself.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/30/2012 @ 11:09 amBy the way, maybe if Aaron had spent less time blogging about his defenses to Kimberlin’s peace order petition, he might have found time to show up in court and actually defend against it. Just my two cents.
Comment by Kman — 5/30/2012 @ 8:34 am
— Your 1.999999999 cents change is in the mail.
Icy (6fef2f) — 5/30/2012 @ 11:12 am“I never said Aaron shouldn’t go to court to defend himself.”
Kman – Of course not, you just recommended that he not do it and refused to answer a question of what you would do should you find yourself in the same position.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/30/2012 @ 11:15 amKman contradicts himself a lot. And he gets facts wrong a lot and doesn’t seem sorry for it.
It’s almost as though he isn’t playing straight with us. Which reminds me of that one time Ron emailed Joe Brooks suggesting Joe diss Ron in public in order to deceive people as part of a strategy to be ‘left alone’, which Kman kinda was.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/30/2012 @ 11:16 amMeh… maybe Kman wasn’t left alone. I don’t know. I only have Ron and Kman’s word on one side of this, and a severe difference in treatment by ‘not brett kimberlin’ from other folks who behaved the claimed way.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/30/2012 @ 11:16 amI said he shouldn’t do things to provoke trouble. But I never said that defending himself in court is one of those things. That’s just your SPIN reflecting what you WISH I had said.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/30/2012 @ 11:19 amYes, Dustin, Kman seems craven enough to do something like that, in my opinion. Sure, I could be wrong. But he does not cover himself with glory in his posts.
He certainly lacks class and empathy.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 5/30/2012 @ 11:19 amAnyone who resorts to the “depends on the meaning of ‘is'” is, well, craven. And Kman has always been a creepy stalker of Aaron.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 5/30/2012 @ 11:20 amKmart – simple question. Do you think Kimberlin is reformed? Yes, or no?
JD (bd887a) — 5/30/2012 @ 11:21 amI donated to the fund. I hope Patterico never needs it! Still praying for the Frey family – and now Aaron’s family. Oh, Lord have mercy!
felipe (3cc5df) — 5/30/2012 @ 11:23 amYeah, Dustin… you need to think about this in more than two dimensions.
It is possible to think that RB is a jerk and quite possibly a homicidal lunatic, and simultaneously think that AW isn’t a saint, but rather, a guy had made some seriously bad legal and strategic moves which contributed to his being fired, arrested, etc., and now has him begging for money.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/30/2012 @ 11:23 amAgreed. I am giving him far too much attention.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/30/2012 @ 11:25 amKmart is pathetic.
JD (bd887a) — 5/30/2012 @ 11:25 amShow of hands – who has claimed AW is a saint?
JD (bd887a) — 5/30/2012 @ 11:26 amI wonder if Kimberlin ever left MD for say Los Angeles, has he committed enough crimes to be arrested and jailed until trial?
PCD (73fc83) — 5/30/2012 @ 11:26 amReformed in what sense?
Being a bomber? Yes. I have seen no evidence that he uses bombs as a tactic to get his point across or defeat his enemies.
Beyond that, I honestly don’t know if he is “reformed” or not.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/30/2012 @ 11:28 amKmart – he claims to have been unjustly convicted, and subsequently exonerated, while hiding funds to compensate his victims civil judgment. but that wasn’t recent. Unlike his perjury and filing false criminal charges.
Thanks for being honest. It is good for people to see how craven you are.
JD (bd887a) — 5/30/2012 @ 11:33 amAh, the list of things that Kman does not know is unfortunately dwarfed by the things he believes he knows.
Nice Clintonian dodging, but hardly a surprise.
But mostly, his basic lack of humanity is revealed.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 5/30/2012 @ 11:34 amYep.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/30/2012 @ 11:37 amWhy does Kmart harass AW?
JD (bd887a) — 5/30/2012 @ 11:38 am“I said he shouldn’t do things to provoke trouble. But I never said that defending himself in court is one of those things. That’s just your SPIN reflecting what you WISH I had said.”
Kman – REALLY? Based upon your integrated theory of Aaron bringing all this misery down upon himself you actually believe you statement can pass the pink face test?
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/30/2012 @ 11:41 amyour statement
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/30/2012 @ 11:42 amKmart has a tingle up his leg over this.
JD (bd887a) — 5/30/2012 @ 11:57 amI just gotta say: I really am humbled by those who have bravely taken Brett on. Aaron probably first and foremost at this point.
Just sayin’. There are a lot of others at this point. Hundreds! And I am humbled by their bravery.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/30/2012 @ 11:58 ambut rather, a guy had made some seriously bad legal and strategic moves which contributed to his being fired, arrested, etc., and now has him begging for money.
— Aaron made a bad strategic move that contributed to his own firing?
Q: What was this ‘bad move’?
Icy (6fef2f) — 5/30/2012 @ 1:24 pmDoes anyone know, is Aaron still in jail or has he posted bail??
Nana (feb41d) — 5/30/2012 @ 1:47 pm“Q: What was this ‘bad move’?”
Going after Kimberlin in the first place, for one.
Of course, if you don’t mind suffering the consequences, then it ain’t a bad move.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 5/30/2012 @ 1:50 pm“Does anyone know, is Aaron still in jail or has he posted bail??”
They ORed him. He’s free as a bird.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 5/30/2012 @ 1:51 pmApparently the deputy believed that he was arresting Aaron for that alleged assault. But Aaron was actually booked for violating a peace order.
This was a peace order that was issued only three days earlier – that Aaron didn’t even really know about (except through an e-mail message?)
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 5/30/2012 @ 2:06 pmI see.
The peace order was obtained Saturday, May 19, 2012. It was an interim order then.
It became a temporary order on Tuesday, May 22, 2012.
When did Walker hear about it? In any case what did it prohibit?
There are numerous cases about injunctions and there are limits to them. This was extensively litigated in the early days of labor unions.
Justice Thurgood Marshall in 1971 for the new York Times in the pentagion papers case not even yet on first amendment grounds – you wouldn’t evenb get to that – this was an injunction unsupported by law. Marshall was very familiar with the use of injunctions, and this peace order is a form of injunction.
The arrest warrant was filed Sunday May 27, 2012.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 5/30/2012 @ 2:32 pmMarshall had a concurring opinion. He wanted to rule for the New York times just on that grounds alone. You don’t even reach the First Amendment.
Here is another case involving blogging that Eugene Volokh previously wrote about and lionks to:
http://volokh.com/2011/12/15/court-rejects-prosecution-of-man-for-writing-many-insulting-tweets-and-blog-posts-about-religious-leader-federal-government-prosecuting-man-for-writing-many-insulting-tweets-and-blog-posts-about-relig/
New York times story on that case:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/16/technology/judge-dismisses-case-of-accused-twitter-stalker.html?r=2&ref=sominisengupta
In his order, Judge Titus drew an analogy to the colonial period, when the Bill of Rights was written. A blog, he said, is like a bulletin board that a person of that time might have planted in his front yard. “If one colonist wants to see what is on another’s bulletin board, he would need to walk over to his neighbor’s yard and look at what is posted, or hire someone else to do so,” he offered.
I guess a little better comparison might be to advertisements posted in front of a grocery store (where a lot of people mighht go to look)
Brett Kimberlin knowss that the law, in the final analysis, does not support him, but he was looking for temporary victories and unchallenged court decisions.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 5/30/2012 @ 2:37 pmAnd, what’s up with this Sheridan@OccupyRebellion person?
Does she have a crush on Brett?
It ain’t going to work out.
She’s way too old for him.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 5/30/2012 @ 4:06 pmTo kmart
“76.“I don’t want any harassment of Kimberlin”, but you’ve also got him admitting that he was actively trying to get the State to file charges against Kimberlin by raising public awareness”
You are wrong.
Raising awareness of somebodies bad conduct, as long as you dont advocate violence or illegal harassment, and as long as your charges of bad conduct are true, which in this case they appear to be, is not harassment. And trying to raise awareness and lobby the attorney general to file charges is also not harassment, if the charges you want them to file are true.
The key question here should be who is telling the truth, Walker or Kimberlin. If Walker, then the charges against him are BS. And if Walkers charges against Kimberlin are probably true, then raising awareness to get him charged is entirely reasonable.
I saw no indication in the judges decision on whether he tried to figure out who was telling the truth. For not doing that, the judge was a moron. If the judge could not definitely figure out at the hearing who was telling the truth, then he should not have charged anybody, but should have referred the case to the police and district attorney, for them to investigate and determine truth.
richard40 (19a56d) — 5/30/2012 @ 4:29 pm235.”Thank you for the irrelevancy and worthlesness of your comment, Linda.” From “nk.”
My comment had two relevant types of value, thxverymuch: 1) mocking the intelligence of these criminals and 2) whistling in the dark.
Know what? I’ve blogged, tweeted, even opened my wallet over this issue. Maybe you should save a little of your derision for the real bad guys.
Linda (b21016) — 5/30/2012 @ 4:56 pmI ask Kman a question, Surls answers.
The difference? Indeterminate.
Icy (6fef2f) — 5/30/2012 @ 5:18 pmSorry about that, Linda, nk is a little idiosyncratic, in his arguments;
http://nooneofanyimport.wordpress.com/2012/05/24/blog-about-brett-kimberlin-day/
narciso (494474) — 5/30/2012 @ 5:23 pm“I ask Kman a question, Surls answers.”
Yeah, I can do that, if I want.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 5/30/2012 @ 5:29 pmNo doubt your Kman cipher skills are unmatched
Icy (6fef2f) — 5/30/2012 @ 6:08 pmsay, thanks for the kind gesture, narciso. By “idiosyncratic,” do you mean grumpy, lol.
I am idiosyncratic as well, by which I mean too sensitive to be playing around in the blogosphere. Troll-hate makes me laugh, but real criticism from a real person is tough.
cheers!
Linda (b21016) — 5/30/2012 @ 6:13 pmThat was a good summary, btw,
narciso (494474) — 5/30/2012 @ 6:15 pm“No doubt your Kman cipher skills are unmatched”
Well, I can decrypt K-Mart’s babble once in awhile.
Some of it even makes sense.
Sort of.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 5/30/2012 @ 6:25 pmPlease forgive me, Linda. I am also very hard to see, time to time. Especially after 8:00, Chicago time.
nk (875f57) — 5/30/2012 @ 6:35 pmLinda, stick around. Military background and homeschooling mom – nice creds.
nk is, well, “passionate”. (Of course, nk, if you say out loud that one of my comments is irrelevant and worthless, I’ll be chucking a seriously spiked heel at you. And wiping a little tear from my eye.)
Dana (4eca6e) — 5/30/2012 @ 6:54 pmBelow the neck and with a safe word.
And I believe I had apologized to Linda, on my own volition, nine minutes earlier?
nk (875f57) — 5/30/2012 @ 7:03 pmnk’s good people, Linda. And thanks for caring about Aaron’s plight, btw.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/30/2012 @ 7:07 pmI just saw that, nk. And a lovely apology – the kind a gentleman makes.
Dana (4eca6e) — 5/30/2012 @ 7:07 pmThank you.
nk (875f57) — 5/30/2012 @ 7:11 pmI’ve been wondering through all of this what is Twitter’s policy towards use of their service to harass and threaten others? I see all of these abusive, threatening, and even very creepy tweets and wonder why Twitter allows it? Sure, I understand it would be very hard to police the activities of millions… but these left-wing hatemongers are making vile, personal threats others… why is that allowed to stand?
brian (00e56a) — 5/30/2012 @ 7:16 pmIt used to be the publisher was responsible, under the common law, for libel and slander. But there are precedents that changed that. And “invective” is not actionable.
As for harass and threaten, it’s not all that much closer. How reasonable a fear do you have that you will get a beating?
nk (875f57) — 5/30/2012 @ 7:31 pmtwitter is the devil
elissa (ea6f4a) — 5/30/2012 @ 7:41 pmnarciso, Dustin, and Dana,
thank you all for your kindness and good humor.
nk, your apology is deeply appreciated and all is forgiven and forgotten. I feel silly for my sensitivity, but now I’m glad I spoke up.
Now it’s your turn to forgive me, for my tendency to be sappy: we in the conservative blogosphere are just one big family, and suddenly I need a group hug . . .
(((((bear huggins)))))))
Linda (b21016) — 5/30/2012 @ 7:54 pmMany people do not consider me a conservative, Linda.
I support gay marriage.
I support the abolition of DADT.
I worked for prisoners’ relief for about 30 years.
I am not gay. Had a woman, for 21 years, who gave me a daughter.
You know, it’s in that Declaration of …? Pursuit … ??? (Hint: It starts with “ha”}.
nk (875f57) — 5/30/2012 @ 8:08 pmnk, perhaps you are more libertarian than conservative, but in the political landscape of today, both groups fight for the same cause.
Good for you, working for prisoner relief. I once worked in criminal defense. (Looking back, I’ve realized that those “dirtbag” sailors were my first children, ha)
I agree about DADT needing to go. Maybe for different reasons, but anyway . . .
it’s nice to meet you. I’ll have to click over and get to know you better. For now, I’ll say g’night.
Linda (b21016) — 5/30/2012 @ 8:46 pmI’ve spent the last couple of months trying to find out what could possibly drive these players – especially “OccupyRebellion.” I’ve scoured the comment sections of nearly every news organization that published anything on Congressman Anthony Weiner, looking for the lone fruitcake that insists he was “set up.” So far, dead end.
Let’s examine why she/he/it would disregard Weiner’s admission to his activities while blaming others for entrapment: projection!
Could it be that she/he/it and Kimberlin were planning to blackmail Weiner for his activities? Now they’re upset because somebody else exposed it before they could use it to pressure him for MORE funding? We already know the State Dept. was funding some of Kimberlin’s scams… but really! Just look at her behavior(assuming it is Darrah). For her to make the leap from Weiner the horndog to Weiner the victim of a setup indicates she herself was involved in setting him up. That’s the only explanation I can come up with for her disregard of the other women he sexted.
Her crazy demeanor and obsession leads me to believe that what drives them is the belief that somebody ELSE ruined their gig.
It would be interesting to look at Weiner’s tax records. I’ve started looking into his recent legislation to see if I can find anything. It’s possible it never got that far, but something is driving that lunatic.
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