Patterico's Pontifications

10/7/2011

Cain Surging?

Filed under: General — Aaron Worthing @ 2:44 pm



[Guest post by Aaron Worthing; if you have tips, please send them here.  Or by Twitter @AaronWorthing.]

Well, that is according to Zogby, which in my experience has not exactly been the most reliable poll.  Still, for what it’s worth (h/t The Blaze):

Herman Cain has opened up a 20 percentage point lead among likely Republican primary voters in the race for the Presidential nomination, and also holds a narrow lead among all likely voters over President Barack Obama.

Cains share of the GOP primary has jumped 10 percentage points since Sept. 26 and is now at 38%. Mitt Romney is second with 18%, followed by both Rick Perry and Ron Paul, at 12% each.

The Oct. 3-5 IBOPE Zogby interactive poll also matches Cain, Romney and Perry against Obama. Cain led Obama, 46%-44%, while Obama is one-point ahead of Romney, 41%-40%, and leads Perry, 45%-40%.

Probably the more significant long-term number there is how he polls against the President.  Maybe I am projecting my own beliefs onto Republicans, but the most important qualification is that the candidate can beat Obama.  I think Republicans care about this more than they have in a long time.  And truly the only person in the GOP field—including people who have not declared, even declared they were not running (like Christie and Palin)—that is so awful I might actually vote for Obama over him or her is Ron Paul.  And I said “might,”—I might still pull the lever for Paul rather than four more years of Obama.  We are literally at the “almost anything would be an improvement” stage.

Of course that poll number against Obama might be deceptive.  Just today at Hot Air we learn that nearly half of Americans can’t even name a single GOP contender:

Forty-seven percent of those polled in a recent Pew Research Center survey couldn’t identify one Republican competitor for the GOP nomination. Twenty-eight percent could name Rick Perry, 27 percent could name Mitt Romney and 15 percent could name Michele Bachmann. All of the other candidates drew only single-digit name recognition.

So…  maybe it isn’t the case that Cain is actually more appealing so much as Cain get’s 100% of those who say they would vote for a generic Republican—that is, they know so little about him that all he is in their minds is a generic Republican.

Of course the elephant in the room here is his race.  Electing our first black President has not led us to some color-blind Shangri-la, but rather we have had three years of hyper-racialized politics, where every mere policy disagreement with the President was cast as a front for racism.  Never mind that in fact this was almost objectively untrue.  For instance, in 1994 a white Southern President tried to give us health care reform and it went down in flames; but when a black President proposed it, it passed.  But for more reasons than I feel like going over, the left gravitated toward this kind of thinking and argument.

And very often when they did so, it was revealing its own bigotry.  Famously Chris Matthews said that during the State of the Union, that he forgot for an hour that Obama was black—suggesting that the rest of the time it was at the forefront of his mind.  And Keith Olbermann claimed that the Tea Party was all white.  Besides the fact that this was objectively false—my wife, for instance, is not white—what could be more racist than looking at a crowd that included minorities and failing to see them?  If we believe this hyper-racialism of our politics is anything but cheap political opportunism (and there is certainly that too), it may in fact say more about what is going on in their own hearts and souls than the people they attack.

Which then leads me to wonder something.  I hate to even pay the slightest attention to the fact that Cain is black.  I have long said that the only relevance that race has is the fact that racists exist and you have to deal with them.  There is no objective relevance to his skin color, but only the fact that other people will pay attention to it, and you have to deal with that.  But okay, then Keith Olbermann exists and so does Chris Matthews and you have to deal with them, and other liberals who think like them.  Now at first I thought that the race-obsessed would feel that nominating Cain would make it seem too much like the GOP was trying to play “me too.”  And I am still sure we will hear that.  But now I realize it just might be a stroke of genius to nominate him.  For those who sincerely believe that opposition to Obama is racism—or fear that accusation in others—they might find in Cain emotional permission to vote for the Republican, to admit that gee, maybe our first black president has been one of our worst.

I don’t know.  I do know that Cain seems like a pretty solid free-market conservative, with executive experience.  I worry that his business experience will not translate well to government work, but I am open to it.  And he is a hell of a speaker.  We could definitely do a lot worse than a President Herman Cain.

And indeed, for the last three years, we have.

[Posted and authored by Aaron Worthing.]

152 Responses to “Cain Surging?”

  1. There, proof i am still alive. 🙂

    And opinionated. 😀

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  2. Ummm, if Cain were nominated and elected, he would be our first Black President.

    thomas (1fdeca)

  3. Cain is neurotic about Mexican people and I think that’s kind of off-putting but for sure I’d vote for him against Obama.

    Not Romney though… something about that boy ain’t right.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  4. Great post, Aaron. I listened to Breitbart’s interview of J. Christian Adams (Andrew was filling in for Dennis Miller) and that hyper-racialized aspect was discussed in detail. Obama and Holder. Both of these clowns have damaged race-relations and most Americans are not even aware of the BS that has been going on during Obama’s term in office. If they did, they be outraged.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  5. they’d

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  6. Col.

    There is a theory that great presidents were great precisely bc we needed greatness at that moment. So Washington under normal circumstances, the theory goes, would have been an ordinary politician, but he realized we needed greatness and therefore rose to the occasion. Ditto with Lincoln and other greats who seemed like just what we needed, when we needed it.

    Obama disproves this theory. We needed greatness, but got a schmuck.

    Aaron Worthing (07e0a4)

  7. Aaron,

    Sounds like Abigail Adams, one of our first First Ladies:

    “Great necessities call forth great leaders.”

    It’s often true. It’s just not always true.

    DRj (a83b8b)

  8. Oops. Sorry. Typo in my name.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  9. The main problem with nominating a black candidate is that it will seriously energize the Democratic party. Any given Republican candidate is a threat of a sort to them, but they view black candidates as an existential threat, a threat to their party’s very survival, and react accordingly. After all, if blacks ever start taking the GOP seriously as a possible choice, and split their vote significantly, the Democratic party is dead meat.

    This is not to say that we shouldn’t run a black candidate if he’s the best man. Just that we should do so knowing that the Democrats won’t hold anything at all back, they’ll go totally nuts. Women claiming the bore Cain’s love child, fake Cain quotes supporting the Aryan Nation, you name it, nothing will be too dirty.

    It might even be turned into a positive, open some eyes. But only if we were braced for it.

    Brett Bellmore (6652c2)

  10. Good point, Brett, but they will Palinize whoever the nominee is.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  11. I like Mr. Cain, and I like him better the more I see of him. There is no doubt that he has a big future, if he wants one, in GOP electoral politics, even though he lost the only previous election he’s ever run (for a U.S. Senate seat from Georgia). He would certainly make a fine cabinet officer, and I can imagine many scenarios in which he would be an acceptable GOP vice presidential nominee (he’s said he’d be okay with that if the nominee were anyone but Perry, a hint Romney can hardly ignore).

    I can entertain, patiently and with good cheer, arguments that for purposes of how Mr. Cain would govern as POTUS, the fact that he has no prior government experience in any capacity is a feature and not a bug. I have a hard time understanding why it’s a feature for him when inexperience has been such a spectacularly obvious bug with Barack Obama, but okay — let’s set aside for the nonce the question of how Mr. Cain would govern.

    Focus on the necessary predicate question: Can Herman Cain get elected?

    The answer to that is plainly “no,” and that is not something that I think can be plausibly argued otherwise. It would not just be risky, but inexcusably naive and reckless to run a political novice against Barack Obama’s $2B (direct expenditures; multiply that by five, perhaps, on indirect money) campaign juggernaut.

    Oh, I know the meme of the moment is that Obama has lost his magic, yada yada. All I can say is at this same point in the cycle, Bush-41 was thought to not only be magical but invulnerable, and he ended up losing. Military commanders teach us not to plan based on our perception of the enemy’s likely intentions but based on the enemy’s likely capabilities. Obama’s demonstrated capabilities as a candidate include (a) soundly beating, in a siege-war Democratic primary, the same Clinton machine that had whipped Bush-41; and (b) even more soundly beating the McCain-Palin ticket, who top member was supposed to be the GOP alternative who was most attractive to centrists/independents.

    I like the GOP’s chances to take the White House. I don’t like those chances so much that I’m willing to bet the ranch — to risk having to endure four more years of Obama — on a guy who’s never won an election anywhere for anything. Expecting someone with no political experience to beat Obama is expecting the kind of miracle that only happens in Hollywood scripts (e.g., Kevin Kline’s “Dave“). In the real word, the political novice just gets slaughtered.

    Since Obama has nothing to run on but a bad record, his only path to re-election is to convince just enough voters that he’s the lesser of two evils. His entire extended campaign strategy — embracing not just the formal campaign structure but all the fellow travelers, Soros babies, the entire MSM, Hollywood, etc. — will depend on demonizing the GOP nominee, whoever that is. You think that’s already happening? No. Remember the level of frenzied demonization that attached to Sarah Palin within the first 90 seconds after McCain’s selection of her became public. We’re going to see that again, but for closer to a full year and at the additional volume that ten times the money will buy. Does anyone really think Herman Cain is the best choice to weather that firestorm?

    Mr. Cain is due serious credit for his improvement in the polls. Nevertheless: no GOP candidate, no front-runner of the day or week or month, has yet moved out ahead of the pack in terms of deep, committed support. Gov. Romney started the campaign with the most loyal supporters, and he remains the candidate whose support is least likely to switch of everyone currently in the race. But that’s somewhere in the 15-20% range of likely GOP primary voters, enough to keep Romney in the top tier to the end but not enough to run away with it unless something important changes.

    Which it probably will. I don’t know what. Could be Perry dramatically outperforming expectations at the next couple of debates. Could be someone else who’s previously ruled out running, reconsidering.

    But handicapping it just from today’s perspective, I’d say a potential Romney-Cain ticket has the best odds on the board.

    Beldar (4fa931)

  12. Excellent, Beldar.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  13. Could be Perry dramatically outperforming expectations at the next couple of debates.

    Could be… but that would be a…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6_1Pw1xm9U

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  14. Great example of “contemporary liberalism’s” finest hour!

    http://michaelgraham.com/archives/best-ldquo-occupy-wall-street-rdquo-sign-ever-warning-not-safe-for-work-family/

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  15. If the object is to paint Obama as an incompetent and a failure, it would be a good idea to have someone who has run something competently and successfully as the Republican.

    This limits the candidates to (arguably) Romney, Perry, Gingrich and Cain. Paul and Bachmann don’t even pass the laugh test.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  16. I cant stand the suspense – who’s going to be the first to tear Cains throat out in this thread?

    Pleeease just dont tease – someone – comeon

    But in all seriousness did you see the interview last night with MSNBC all but calling him the n word?

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  17. BTW, wasn’t it Paul who was “breaking out” just last week? Maybe if they start the primaries in November some of this will matter, but the election is still over a year away.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  18. I’m looking forward to Balkanization of the Republican landscape.

    Romeny was fellated on PBS this evening, Cain’s not going away in SC, GA, or FL. Everyone remember Castle?

    The Far West and the Heartland are up for grabs.

    gary gulrud (7f3ebb)

  19. Beldar,

    Only a few events could have turned 2008 from a D victory. One of them might have been HRC winning the nomination, I could potentially see her motivating enough haters to the polls to defeat her regardless of who the GOP put up. The other event would have been Heller going the other way. I don’t see any alternatives that were under GOP control that would have given them victory. The economy had tanked, the senate races were massively lopsided toward GOP incumbents when the GOP was already unpopular.

    McCain may well have run the very best campaign he was capable of, sometimes the cards just run in your opponents favor.

    One difference between Cain and Obama is that while Cain may not have run anything government he has at least run /something/, where the only such experience Obama brought to the table were his various political campaigns themselves. The 2008 campaign should have been a huge warning, with Obama willing to ditch anyone rather than take blame for anything, but while the behavior was picked up on the character behind it somehow escaped notice.

    Soronel Haetir (f21d6f)

  20. But in all seriousness did you see the interview last night with MSNBC all but calling him the n word?

    Comment by EricPWJohnson — 10/7/2011 @ 5:21 pm

    Yeah, I read about that. Unbelievable.

    It’s hard not to like Cain. He’s a straight shooter. I don’t think he’s ready for this level of politics. Beldar’s right about that, though I think counting on Romney’s electability misses one major lesson of 2010. The right has lost patience with the GOP and needs good candidates.

    The left goes crazy just thinking about him. Indeed, a Romney Cain ticket would bring so much bigotry from the left that I imagine it could really change the landscape. Bigotry backfires, after all.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  21. Soronel Haetir,

    I agree 2008 was a year that favored the Democrats but I don’t agree it was inevitable the Democrats would win. McCain-Palin were leading Obama-Biden in the polls (including with independents) after the Republican Convention and they were basically tied in mid-September 2008. As this Gallup poll shows, McCain lost the election on September 24, 2008, when he “suspended his campaign” to return to Washington to deal with the financial crisis and then, inexplicably, did nothing. He looked useless and was useless, and the polls showed it.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  22. Cain 2012.

    Gary (8458bd)

  23. that is exactly right how McCain blew the election

    it was as much an appalling act of hubris as it was a vivid demonstration that he was just flat-out not in touch

    plus he looked like a drooling toothless geriatric moron not backpedaling on his silly ANWR panderings while gas prices were raping the Common Man

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  24. Here’s how I see it (and please, no accusations of bigotry): those who are independents and are falling in behind the GOP this election do so because they are soured on Obama. And Obama and Cain have one thing in common; their skin tone. There is no way that Cain can escape that, it’s not his fault, but perception is 90% of the game. Cain also has no government experience, not even being on a city council, and American’s are tired of a no experience president. Are they willing to take a chance on Cain knowing he has never managed anything but a pizza company?

    Romney is not going to carry the Southern Baptist vote which is strong in the southern states with high electorial counts. Romney will have to carry Florida, and I’m not sure he can do that.

    But here is what bothers me the most: last week Cain said he would support any of the GOP candidates, but Perry. Then he slammed Perry on not one, but two talk shows Sunday over a rock when it was obvious to anyone who listened to the interviews that Cain was not familiar with the WaPo hit piece and was playing to the moderator. So, either Cain was trying, stealthly, to play the race card on Perry, or he is lacking those qualified advisors on his campaign that he claims he would surround himself with as POTUS that should have advised him to be noncommittal on the issue until all the facts were learned. Yesterday, Cain said he would accept the VP slot if offered, except for Perry.

    To top it off, Romney was asked on Fox to express what he though Cain’s vunerabilities were. Romney refused to answer saying he wanted to stick to the “issues”, yet………..on Romney’s website yesterday he put out a new attack on Rick Perry. Perry is not the “issue”, Obama’s policies are. And now Cain has suspended his campaign to do a book tour. What’s up with that?

    Do Romney and Cain have a quid pro quo? Has there been a deal cut? In the last election, I felt like Santorum and Bachmann were jockeying for the VP slot with Romney the head of the ticket. Is Cain positioning himself for that slot? He and Romney should be going after each other’s throats, but they’re not. They are both going after Perry. Why if Perry is in the #3 slot and Romney and Cain are #1 and #2?

    Romney slams Perry. He’s #1
    Cain slams Perry. He’s #2
    Perry is #3.
    Cain goes on a book tour.

    Something just doesn’t feel right to me.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  25. 🙄 so you should like Romney the flip-flopping candyman.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  26. yeah it sounds like Herman already wrapped up the #2 spot with Miss Mittens

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  27. The Daily Caller has some very troubling and angry anti- Semitic footage from the Wall Street protest. Apparently for some of the protesters, at least, “Wall Street” is just another way to say Joooooos.

    elissa (bf28bd)

  28. here is a link elissa

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  29. #26, DohBiden, I wouldn’t buy a used car from Mitt Romney. He lost me in 2008 when I learned a lot about him. I knew McCain was a RINO, Mitt tried to run from his RINO ways.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  30. I don’t think there’s anything bigoted about it.

    And any Romney fans who call foul on your theory haven’t been paying attention. Romney outright purchased T Paw’s endorsement. A quid pro quo is a good explanation.

    He and Romney should be going after each other’s throats, but they’re not.

    It makes no sense. And for a Tea Party fav to prefer Romney to Perry is also odd.

    The only reason I hesitate is that it’s wrong to question a man’s character without justification. Cain seems better than that (indeed, that would be selfish to compromise conservative reform just to be VP).

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  31. Uh-huh…………..surrrrrrrrrrrre.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  32. Beldar–

    I agree with your conclusions, but have a few quibbles.

    1) Bush 41 was not beaten by Clinton at all. He was beaten by the proto-Tea Party candidacy of Ross Perot, who got an astonishing 19% of the vote as a third party candidate. Clinton won with 43% of the vote. When that 1-in-5 vote voted again, the Republicans took the House with a mandate for fiscal sanity (Perot’s main plank). Bush 41 would probably have won a 2 man race.

    Note the message to this year’s Tea Party.

    2) McCain did the best he could, and was actually UP in the polls when Bush 43’s folks let Lehman go under and the house of cards came down. When your party’s raison d’être is fiscal sanity and all the banks are failing tight before the election, it is pretty much expected that you are going to have a bad day. Not McCain’s fault. Nor Palin’s for that matter. Romney might have worked out better in either slot, but who knew?

    3) Cain was President of the KC branch of the Fed, which is kinda like government, and more than kinda like politics.

    But yeah, Mr 9-9-9 ain’t going to cut it, and the idew that he can cut into Obama’s support just because he’s black is a bit insulting, even if he wasn’t going to get a full Borking.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  33. Dustin, don’t get me wrong. I was squarely in Cain’s camp before Perry got in. But I thought Cain was better than to throw down the race card, considering all he has said about not doing that and why.

    But there is no getting away from the fact that is exactly what Cain did to Perry, especially with Amanpour. Why? What did he gain by it? Did he think that because he’s black that lends credibility to his opinion of racism? Some of the most racist people I know are black or Hispanic, usually against each other.

    I have since learned that Cain supported Romney over McCain in 2008. And the pieces don’t fit together. What does Cain have against Perry? Cain made his first statement about supporting anyone but Perry prior to Sunday’s WaPo hit piece.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  34. == It makes no sense…..Cain seems better than that (indeed, that would be selfish to compromise conservative reform just to be VP.)=

    They’re politicians, people. Every last one of them. Politicians like attention. Politicians crave power.

    There’s not one of them who will not disappoint you, or say something stupid, or break your heart at some point. Even the “good” ones. Count on it. It’s less painful and jarring that way.

    elissa (bf28bd)

  35. Cain hates Perry

    he needs to dial that back cause it reeks of issues

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  36. I could see Cain having something against Perry on immigration. I’ve long thought that someone could win based on a promise to crack down on the illegal aliens and tackle the budget situation and it wouldn’t matter what their other positions were. I might even vote for someone who wanted a complete gun ban in order to get a strong commitment to the above two items, despite my belief that the Heller majority did not go far enough that the Heller dissenters should have been impeached and removed from the bench.

    Soronel Haetir (f21d6f)

  37. Just remember this: stay focused.
    Heh, heh, heh.

    Larry Reilly (4327c9)

  38. Cain hates perry.

    Yeah and i’m a 4 titted 7 armed afghani man.

    Larry remember this your an stink.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  39. #37, Cain should have nothing on Perry over immigration. Perry doesn’t control immigration laws, the Congress does. Perry just has to deal with the failure of the Federal Government, like any border state governor.

    A complete gun ban? Not on your life. And the 2nd Amendment doesn’t have one thing to do with budget issues.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  40. “Cain goes on a book tour.”

    retire05 – That is Rachel Maddow’s line. Why swallow it?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  41. “Perry just has to deal with the failure of the Federal Government, like any border state governor.”

    retire05 – Pro-tip – It ain’t just border state governors who have to deal with failure of the federal government to enforce immigration laws. Here in Illinois we rank #4 in illegal immigrant population!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  42. so put another dime in the jukebox baby

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  43. daleyrocks, just Google “Cain book tour.” He’s suspended his campaign for a book tour. He claims he can do both, but some question the wisdom of a book tour over shoe leather retail politics.

    So Illinois is #4? In 2009, New Jersey was #4, behind California, Nevada and Arizona according to Pew Hispanic Center.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  44. Mr. Feets – Those Democrats, I hear them pandering to you, I hear them softly right now. You don’t have to feel so alone anymore.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  45. retire05 – That is Rachel Maddow’s line. Why swallow it?

    Comment by daleyrocks — 10/7/2011 @ 7:28 pm

    Because it is true? I sincerely doubt Retire heard that from her. He probably heard it from the many on the right talking about it too.

    But that’s a good point about not parroting dumb left wing talking points and equivocations.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  46. “He claims he can do both”

    retire05 – Two book signings plus speaking at Value Voters Summit in DC today. Your evidence he cannot do both?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  47. “Because it is true? I sincerely doubt Retire heard that from her.”

    Dustin – Because I believe that’s where the meme started.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  48. Democrats pah I spit in the face of these Democrats of which you speak

    even if they asked me in demotic french to luncheon at the Cannon Street Hotel

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  49. “So Illinois is #4? In 2009, New Jersey was #4, behind California, Nevada and Arizona according to Pew Hispanic Center.”

    retire05 – OMG! You have a different source from a different year!!!!!!11ty!!!!!

    That will leave a mark.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  50. daleyrocks, what’s your problem? You out of meds? I was just surprised that Illinois is #4.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  51. retire05 – This Publication from DHS from February 2011 shows estimates as of January 2010 with Illinois #4 in Table 4.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  52. Chicago is a “Sanctuary City”, retire.

    elissa (bf28bd)

  53. “daleyrocks, what’s your problem? You out of meds? I was just surprised that Illinois is #4.”

    retire05 – Why didn’t you say you were surprised instead of acting like you were nitpicking my point, like you were doing last night, by finding a different source with a different ranking? I see no expression of surprise in your comment. GFY.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  54. retire05 – I apologize for that last part.

    My point remains though, concern over enforcement of immigration laws does not rest only with border states. It is one reason why conservatives were so taken aback by Perry’s “heartless” comment in the debate, wondering what that signaled for policy if he got elected president.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  55. daleyrocks, apparently you have a computer that allows you to see the expression on my face. Can you tell me where to get one of them?

    I was just surprised that Illinois exceeded Arizona.

    Accept it for what it was, not what you want to make it.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  56. daleyrocks, our posts crossed. Again, I was surprised.

    The reason that people were shocked by the “no heart” comment is that they have no real clue as to the history of illegal immigration, the start of it and the reasons for it. And remember, Texas has been beat all to hell by the Dems for claimed bigotry against Hispanics.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  57. “The reason that people were shocked by the “no heart” comment is that they have no real clue as to the history of illegal immigration, the start of it and the reasons for it.”

    retire05 – I know why I was shocked by it.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  58. “daleyrocks, apparently you have a computer that allows you to see the expression on my face”

    retire05 – No, I can just read the words you write and remember your recent innaccurate comments about accuracy.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  59. #25

    Are they willing to take a chance on Cain knowing he has never managed anything but a pizza company?

    Cain was born in Memphis, Tennessee, to Luther Cain, Jr., and Lenora Davis.[7][8] His mother was a cleaning woman and his father, who was raised on a farm, was a chauffeur.[4] He grew up in Georgia.[9] Cain graduated from Morehouse College in 1967 with a Bachelor of Arts degree in mathematics, and received a Master of Science degree in computer science from Purdue University in 1971,[10] when he was also working full-time in ballistics for the U.S. Department of the Navy[11]. As a civilian ballistics analyst, he was responsible for developing fire control systems for ships and fighter planes[12].

    [edit]Business career

    After completing his master’s degree from Purdue, Cain left the Department of the Navy and began working for The Coca-Cola Company in Atlanta as a computer systems analyst. In 1977, he moved to Minneapolis to join Pillsbury, soon becoming director of analysis in its restaurant and foods group in 1978. He was assigned in the 1980s first to analyze and ultimately to take the reins of Burger King, which at the time was a Pillsbury subsidiary, where he managed 400 stores in the Philadelphia area. Under Cain’s leadership, his region went in three years from the least profitable for Burger King to the most profitable. This prompted Pillsbury to appoint him President and CEO of another subsidiary, Godfather’s Pizza. Aiming to cut costs, Cain, over a 14-month period, reduced the company from 911 stores to 420. As a result of his efforts, Godfather’s Pizza became profitable. In a leveraged buyout in 1988, Cain, Executive Vice-President and COO Ronald B. Gartlan and a group of investors, bought Godfather’s from Pillsbury. Cain continued as CEO until 1996, when he resigned.

    Later in 1996 he became CEO of the National Restaurant Association, a trade group and lobby organization for the restaurant industry, where he had previously been chairman concurrently with his role at Godfather’s Pizza.[13]

    Cain became a member of the board of directors of the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City in 1992 and served as its chairman from January 1995 to August 1996, when he resigned to become active in national politics.[14]

    Cain was a 1996 recipient of the Horatio Alger Award.[15]

    Cain was on the board of directors of Aquila, Inc. from 1992 to 2008, and also served as a board member for Nabisco, Whirlpool, Reader’s Digest, and AGCO, Inc.[16][17][18]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Cain

    JP (508ef3)

  60. daleyrocks, let’s just agree you wanted to be disagreeable.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  61. Dude likes Mitt a lot, apparently.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  62. What’s all this surge stuff? It’s only October 2011 fer heaven’s sake.

    Dave Surls (28f866)

  63. _______________________________________________

    There is a theory that great presidents were great precisely bc we needed greatness at that moment…. Obama disproves this theory. We needed greatness, but got a schmuck.

    That theory would have applied to Obama if his background, going back decades, weren’t so cruddy, marginal and extreme. IOW, there was no reason for anyone (except a variety of liberals) to believe anything great (or any potential of greatness) resided in the guy in the first place. So it was ridiculous to theorize he nonetheless could somehow rise to the occasion. That he would be great because of some dramatic, high-stakes situation that would force “character building” and heroism upon him.

    President “goddamn America” has pretty much lived up (or down) to everything I assumed about him from well before November 2008.

    Mark (411533)

  64. _________________________________________________

    If we believe this hyper-racialism of our politics is anything but cheap political opportunism (and there is certainly that too), it may in fact say more about what is going on in their own hearts and souls than the people they attack.

    Dailycaller.com, March 2011:

    Looking back over eighteen General Social Surveys since 1975, in every one those who wanted smaller government had significantly more education than the rest of the public, measured both by mean years of education and by mean highest final educational degree. Typically, the well educated are less racist than the general public.

    Social scientists usually measure traditional racism against African Americans by looking at the survey responses of white Americans only. Among whites in the latest General Social Survey (2008), only 4.5% of small-government advocates express the view that “most Blacks/African-Americans have less in-born ability to learn,” compared to 12.3% of those who favor bigger government or take a middle position expressing this racist view.

    Republican advocates of smaller government are even less racist (1.3% believing that blacks have less in-born ability) than the rest of the general public (11.3% expressing racist views). Thus, in 2008 Republicans who believe that the government in Washington does too much have 10 times higher odds of not expressing racist views on the in-born ability question than the rest of the population (79-to-1 odds v. 7.9-to-1 odds).

    What about conservative Republicans more generally, not just the ones who want a smaller government? Surely they must be more racist. Actually not. In 2008, only 5.4% of white conservative Republicans expressed racist views on the in-born ability question, compared to 10.3% of the rest of the white population.

    [T]his same pattern holds for white Democrats compared to white Republicans: in 2008 12.3% of white Democrats in the U.S. believed that African Americans were born with less ability, compared to only 6.6% of white Republicans.

    Another traditional racism question — on segregated neighborhoods — was asked on fifteen General Social Surveys from 1972 through 1996. Though the percentage of white Democrats and white Republicans who slightly or strongly agreed that “White people have a right to keep Blacks out of their neighborhoods” did not differ significantly in any one survey, overall white Democrats were significantly more likely to support segregated neighborhoods than white Republicans (30.4% to 26.3%).

    Mark (411533)

  65. _________________________________________________

    Electing our first black President has not led us to some color-blind Shangri-la,

    Well, of course not. That’s because Obama’s “race,” if you will, is liberalism, if not ultra-liberalism. IOW, people like him are of the left, first and foremost, more than they’re anything else, including their race, ethnicity, religion, gender, etc.

    I don’t think I’m being too sarcastic when I say that if 90-plus percent of black America suddenly became very centrist to conservative — if it suddenly reflected someone like Herman Cain (and therefore was nicely refreshing) — folks like Obama (ie, white, black, Latino, Asian, Jewish, Gentile, Christian, atheist, straight, or gay liberals) would start yelling “Move to the back of the bus, sit down and shut the f— up! You’re nothing but a bunch of suckers and sell outs! You’re a disgrace to your race!!!”

    Mark (411533)

  66. “Dude likes Mitt a lot, apparently.”

    Dustin – That must be it. I’m just waiting for retire05 to tell me my numbers are wrong again in somebody else’s comment.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  67. Dustin – Or that numbers aren’t my forte because Texas spending could not have doubled in the one year between 2000 and 2010. retire05 has not been picky at all in replying to me, so no reason when he comes up with a survey showing a different result than I claimed for him to now say he was doing something different than last night, none at all.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  68. Dustin – That must be it.

    Comment by daleyrocks

    I can tell when someone’s on a mission.

    Not that this is what I have in mind when I discuss electioneering.

    We all have our preferences. That’s democracy.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  69. “I can tell when someone’s on a mission.”

    Dustin – Are you referring to your mission to destroy Romney with irrational and unsupportable character assassination and allegations about his performance as governor that apply equally to Perry. Or is you mission to blindly support Perry against all challengers, whatever it takes.

    You can choose not to believe what I say, that’s your choice. Your rabid hatred of Romney and drooling support for Perry led me to do a little research on the governor. In return you erected a blazing field a strawmen to fight arguments that were never made.

    In the new kind of campaigning thread you made a reference to candidates fighting fairly. It would be nice if you heeded your own words.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  70. the power of Christ compels you the power of Christ compels you. the demon possessing this pundit shall leave and return from whence it came

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  71. Rick Perry is the greatest governor this country has ever seen and spineless turds like Mitt Romney who never did anything for himself in his whole life because of his rich family and political connections has no character and never had any character building experiences and was a tax and spend governor and raised user fees and gun registration fees to $100 but would not call them taxes and all the other GOP presidential candidates do not deserve to share the same air with the awesome Rick Perry.

    I can tell when somebody is on a mission.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  72. A Perrykrishna’s “fair” look at Mitt Romney.

    Double heh.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  73. We needed greatness, but got a schmuck.

    In the sense of the original Yiddish, no less.

    IgotBupkis, President, United Anarchist Society (c9dcd8)

  74. You can choose not to believe what I say, that’s your choice. Your rabid hatred of Romney and drooling support for Perry led me to do a little research on the governor. In return you erected a blazing field a strawmen to fight arguments that were never made

    Dammit you 2 my ironic meter just imploded – I paid some serious money for the “extra heavy duty” model with built in features to filter internet flip flops by pyscosycophantic enamblers now it just burned a hole IN MY GRANTITE kitchen counters and ruined my orange peel, craisin buttermilk cupcakes I had made for the Mayors social

    thanks alot

    EricPWJohnson (c5f1fc)

  75. that would be granite and that also would be pyscosycophantic enablers not enamblers

    that is all

    EricPWJohnson (c5f1fc)

  76. A romneynista lambasting Perry’s rinoism is ironic.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  77. “I say you [Perry] are the Messiah, Lord, and I should know, I’ve followed a few!”

    – retire05

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  78. “Dammit you 2 my ironic meter just imploded”

    EPWJ – Stop foolin’ around. Everybody knows you don’t have an irony meter.

    Perrykrishnas are the new Obamabots. No dissent allowed.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  79. Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/7/2011 @ 5:18 pm

    “…and the children shall lead you…”

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (8c3caa)

  80. “This place is getting too rough for me”

    – Bartender in Three Amigos

    felipe (2ec14c)

  81. Comment by retire05 — 10/7/2011 @ 6:39 pm

    “…anything but a pizza company…”

    I think you need to re-read Herman Cain’s bio, there’s a lot there (it isn’t Oakland).

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (8c3caa)

  82. One comment: Aside from breaking ties in the Senate and attending funerals, the job of the Vice President is to serve as President if needed.

    If Cain is not qualified to serve as President, he’s not qualified to be Vice President, either.

    We’ve had one President die only thirty days after the inauguration (WH Harrison), and another less than three months into the term (FD Roosevelt).

    Assassins can strike at any time. Two Presidents have been murdered six months after the inauguration (Garfield, McKinley), and one only six weeks after (Lincoln). Reagan narrowly escaped assassination less than ten weeks after, and Roosevelt was nearly killed before the inauguration.

    Transportation accidents are a possibility too. T Roosevelt was in a buggy-trolley car smash that killed a Secret Service guard. Recent Presidents have logged tens of thousands of miles of airplane travel and thousands of miles in helicopters (“5,000 parts flying in formation”).

    Putting an incapable person on the ticket for electoral reasons is gross irresponsibility. (Yes, that is a knock on Obama.)

    Rich Rostrom (e84440)

  83. Yet, Rich, we muddle through.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (8c3caa)

  84. American Drew, I am fully aware of Herman Cain’s history, and it is an admirable one. But there is more to being president that jobs and the economy.

    We are watching as the Arab spring is about to turn into the Arab storm. Iran’s constant sabre rattling, Egypt’s move to put the Muslim Brotherhood into positions of power, the unknown quotient that is the Libyan rebels, a war on two fronts, Afghanistan and Iraq, and the constant threat to Israel, should give us all pause.

    We seem to have forgotten the ailments of the Middle East with Obama in office. No more are we subjected to endless photos of returning flag drapped coffins. The administration, and the complying press, have made sure that the troubles in the Middle East have been downplayed. But it is a smoldering fire sure to blaze sometime in the near future.

    Is Cain up to the job of dealing with an ever more radical Middle East? He would basically be subject to on-the-job training. Have we not had enough of that in the last 2 1/2 years?

    I also don’t like the fact that Cain seems willing to try to destroy another GOP candidate that will benefit not him, but his closest front runner.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  85. “I also don’t like the fact that Cain seems willing to try to destroy another GOP candidate that will benefit not him, but his closest front runner.”

    retire05 – The Cain Conspiracy. The paranoia of the perrykrishnas. Danger lurks behind every corner.

    Fire does not melt steel!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  86. ALL Presidents go through OJT.
    If it’s not the pitfalls of domestic politics, it is the evil that constantly lurks without our borders waiting to reach out.
    All candidates in the heat of a campaign will crap on their opponents in one way or another – it is a contest after all.
    Do we like it, NO!
    But it is what WE do as we always seek that “Unfair Advantage” (it’s a book, and quite informative and available on Amazon) in our competitive lives.
    Now, I don’t know at this point in time which candidate has the best chance of defeating President Millstone (I think his record is his toughest opponent), but I do know that his defeat is the goal, and a little “fender rubbin'” is good, but we don’t need to put anyone “into the wall”.
    Going into that intensive round of interviews, The Hermanator might have been under the delusion that the MSM is a fair chronicler of daily events, and not the propoganda arm of the Progressive Party, but I would hope that his eyes have been opened to their true intentions.
    You know, he’s not the first GOP pol who has been led to believe “…you like me; you really like me…”, and he won’t be the last; only the psychopath has a complete disregard for the feelings and attentions of others even when being told of how sharp his trouser creases are.
    As to the ME, since when have we have had any President who was “up” to dealing with that snake-pit?
    It seems that they (in the ME) respond best when we, on a good day, ignore them; and on a bad day, kick the crap out of them (or allow others to do so).
    I want a President who will set out to marginalize the ME, turning if from any problem for us to a problem for their primary customers: Europe & Japan.
    The way to do that is to complete the Keystone XL pipeline for the importation of “conflict free” oil from Canada, build the Natural Gas pipeline from Prudhoe Bay across Canada to the Mid-West, expand production of the Bakken and Marcellus fields (particularly on the Federal Lands in Eastern Montana), pull down the “Off Limits” signs in the Gulf of Mexico, and the Outer Continental Shelf on both Coasts, and tap those reserves we know are in the waters, and frozen tundra of Alaska (and that includes the coastal plain of ANWR).
    We have the potential to supply, one again, 100% of the energy requirements of our economy from resourses completely within our control, and the control of our northern neighbor: Crude Oil, Natural Gas, Atomic Energy, and Hydro-power.
    All it takes is a little leadership, and political will (yeah, I know, talking about Congress and political will is a bit of a stretch – but that’s where the voters come in; you know, those people who have been un/under-employed for the last 3-4 years who are sick and tired of the crap that has been going on, the ones who set-off in the Spring of ’09 to change things, the TEA Party!).
    We, that’s you and me Bunkie, have to elect Representatives and Senators who are committed to reining-in the size, scope, and power, of The Leviathan, and to restore a greater degree of Liberty & Freedom than currently exists to the American People.
    It means eliminating programs that are on the books.
    It means eliminating Departments/Agencies/Administrations/Bureaus that are on the books.
    It means making the bureaucrats accountable by seriously scaling back their “sovereign immunity” for those times where they infringe upon the Constitutional Rights & Privileges of Citizens.
    It means Change from the Status Quo, change we can truly believe in, not the pixie-dust and unicorn-farts we were sold in ’08.

    I yield the soap-box.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (8c3caa)

  87. Retire05-

    Just so we are all clear here— If Romney is the eventual R. nominee will you vote for him, or for Obama, or will you stay home?

    If Cain is the eventual R. nominee will you vote for him or for Obama, or will you stay home?

    If Newt is the eventual R. nominee will you vote for him, or for Obama or will you stay home?

    elissa (288b43)

  88. colonel’s prediction
    survey of retired guy says
    NO! and NO! and NO!

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  89. American Drew, I do not disagree with anything you said. And I do think that conservatives are paying enough attention to the importance of the House races. It is imperative that we gain control of the Senate and maintain a strong majority in the House.

    With that said (and I know daleyrocks will slam me for what he thinks is a conspiracy theory) I am still bothered by some of the things that are going on, like Cain and Romney not seemingly bothered by their close polls, but intent on destroying the one in the #3 slot. In politics, deals are cut every day but it is one of the things that leaves a nasty taste in the mouth of conservatives. If I am wrong about my suspicions, it will bear itself out in the next debate as Cain and Romney go after each other.

    Most of all, we should never sell Obama short. Alexrod is a brilliant strategist, much like Rove was, and he is not going away. And there is no reason with all the corruption (Fast and Furious, Solyndra, etc) that Obama’s approval ratings should not be in the 20’s, but it’s not. There will still be those that can be convinced that a four year term was not enough time for Obama to turn around the ecomony and wars that he “inherited.” And that is the message Obama is currently taking to those that want to benefit from Obama’s “stash.”

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  90. _________________________________________________

    Is Cain up to the job of dealing with an ever more radical Middle East? He would basically be subject to on-the-job training. Have we not had enough of that in the last 2 1/2 years?

    Training, or lack of experience in the White House, combined with the foolish sentiments of a leftist like Obama are a one-two knock-out punch. In that regard, Cain at least isn’t a foolish liberal. IOW, he appears to be a far better judge of good and bad, of both people and situations, than a typical Democrat similar to, as one example, Bill Clinton.

    Monica’s former love toy — who had on-the-job training as chief occupant of the White House for 8 years — recently made it sound like the Israelis (who the left loves to see as oh-so-cruel, oh-so-heartless, oh-so-mean, oh-so-imperialistic, oh-so-greedy) were the reason the Palestinians (who so many liberals love to portray as the sad, poor, dejected, heartfelt and noble characters in the story) hadn’t gotten a fairer shake at the bargaining table. So all the experience in the world won’t offset the idiocy of misguided left-leaning sentiment.

    I also don’t like the fact that Cain seems willing to try to destroy another GOP candidate that will benefit not him, but his closest front runner.

    Unless Cain has some inside information on or personal dealings with Perry that indicate to Cain that Texas’s governor has big-squish tendencies (eg, “you’re heartless!”), than, yes, I’m also not comfortable with Cain’s recent comments about Perry.

    Beyond that, and mainly because Obama to me is so objectionable and even contemptible — and the need to dump him is so great — I find arguments among non-liberals (and certainly among rightists) about the pros and cons of the Republican candidates going right over my head.

    Mark (411533)

  91. Who is this “American Drew” fellow?

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (8c3caa)

  92. elissa, I will, as I did with McCain, hold my nose and vote for the nominee running against Obama.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  93. Apolgize for the mistake, Another Drew. American Drew is a furniture company and it was (I guess) stuck in my mind since I had to provide a quote from them for a friend of mine yesterday.

    Again, apologies for messing up your moniker.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  94. voting for Romney is like kissing your sister

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  95. Well, next time I’m ignored retire05, I can respond:
    Hey, I’m not just some credenza sitting here!
    …with appreciation to Brendan V. Sullivan, Jr…

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (8c3caa)

  96. _____________________________________________

    There will still be those that can be convinced that a four year term was not enough time for Obama

    Those are the people who are an American version of all the folks in Venezuela who still give Hugo Chavez, based on one poll not too long ago, a positive rating of around 50%.

    I understand that a large majority of people in another Latin American society, Mexico, aren’t quite so enamored of Venezuela’s dictator. Nonetheless, a majority of Mexican voters for decades and decades — through all their generations of poverty, misery, crime and corruption — have always given big hugs (and lots of benefit of the doubt) to liberal politicians and left-leaning parties.

    The dynamics behind much of this also exist in the US, since if Obama weren’t a leftist, he’d be receiving lower ratings — if not considerably lower — in various opinion polls similar to those that his predecessor received.

    Mark (411533)

  97. Good to hear, Retire. Thanks for answering my question.

    elissa (288b43)

  98. i saw something nasty in the credenza

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  99. for moment in time
    he was… an “American Drew”
    now he’s free falling

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  100. I heard Texans always have to hold their noses.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  101. ev’rything big in Texas!

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  102. If you walk around with your nose in the air, you’re liable to “step in it”, and then you do have to “hold your nose”.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (8c3caa)

  103. “ev’rything big in Texas!”

    Colonel – Even that big Obama spending, if you adjust it for population changes and deflate it to constant Euros doesn’t look too bad. That’s how we make Perry’s numbers look good in Texas.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  104. Speaking of noses, I hear OccupyWallStreet crowd is big on ‘caine… big on yayo and mota.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  105. voting for Romney is like kissing your sister

    admit it… you supported Sarkozy, dintcha?

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  106. last time I supported anyone it was George W. Bush

    since then Team R has been scraping the bottom of the nominee barrel

    oh. I supported Mitch Daniels, and I still do. But his flaky wife messed that all up.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  107. colonoelhaikus posts are like poison sumac but he does make good points sometimes.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  108. Daley you romneyroids are no better in not allowing dissent.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  109. retire05 – The Cain Conspiracy. The paranoia of the perrykrishnas. Danger lurks behind every corner.

    What a weirdo.

    Everyone knows Romney has indeed conspired with his opponents in fairly sleazy ways. He gave Pawlenty, a harsh Romney critic saying ‘obamneycare’ hundreds of thousands of dollars in exchange for an endorsement.

    There are others who are ideologically far from Romney who appear to be unwilling to directly criticize him while they criticize those who are obviously much more in tune with their political views. This has been going on for some time.

    Romney’s game plan is to make his candidacy seem inevitable and his opponent seem like a joke nobody despite having triple the experience and far more success.

    The idea this is paranoia is dishonest, and daley knows it.

    Cain is playing politics, and to some extent it’s expected, but lately it’s getting hard to accept.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  110. Daley you romneyroids are no better in not allowing dissent.

    Comment by DohBiden — 10/8/2011 @ 12:21 pm

    This is 100% correct.

    I was having an obviously good faith discussion of why I do not trust Romney, using links and absolutely true facts about his flip flops. Suddenly, Daleyrocks switches from being friendly to being nasty, talking about who he thinks I’m having sex with. It’s not a way I’d treat him for saying something I disagree with, that’s for sure.

    Before this happened, I usually abbreviated my Romney commentary. But I just don’t react well to people who try to shut me up, which is why I actually am enjoying hammering Romney repeatedly. For example, for increasing the gun tax 400% to $100 as democrats cheered how drastically this reduced gun ownership in MA. Is Romney really a man you’re going to vote for in the primary?

    Though I certainly understand the idea of being aggressive when someone started mentioning Romney’s disavowed recent views. It’s not like someone can defend Romney with a reasoned look at his record, after all.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  111. Everyone knows Romney has indeed conspired with his opponents in fairly sleazy ways. He gave Pawlenty, a harsh Romney critic saying ‘obamneycare’ hundreds of thousands of dollars in exchange for an endorsement.

    It is baseless lies of this sort that create ill will among people.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  112. Support your candidate, but don’t bear false witness against others.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  113. Dustin, I’d forgive the guy I obviously got him worked up over another subject – its my fault

    EricPWJohnson (4380b4)

  114. You know, Mark, Mexico has been under the PAN, the closest counterpart to the GOP for the better part of a decade, now, patterns can change of course, Chavez’s predecessor was a ‘worse for wear, liberal, Caldera,

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  115. When NBC asked Pawlenty if there had been any agreement with Romney to pay off Pawlenty’s reported high six figure campaign debt, Pawlenty denied any exchange had taken place but added “If he’s willing to help with that, I’d love to have his help.”

    Ummmmmm.

    Quid pro quo?

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  116. Ummmmmm.

    Quid pro quo?

    Tempus ire mama tua

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  117. ac deinde tempus your doggie

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  118. the PAN is an amnesty shill group.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  119. “I was having an obviously good faith discussion of why I do not trust Romney, using links and absolutely true facts about his flip flops.”

    Dustin – Completely untrue. The completely unhinged and unsupported nature of your attacks on Romney was exactly why I returned fire. I would be more than willing to support my position but I think people here are pretty tired of hearing about it. Here’s another one you keep reaching for the fainting couch over:

    “For example, for increasing the gun tax 400% to $100 as democrats cheered how drastically this reduced gun ownership in MA.”

    Research is not your friend. Romney increased the fee to $75, the legislature tacked on the final $25. Romney retaliated by extending the life of the permit to six years.

    Decline in gun ownership in Massachusetts cannot be solely attributed to the fee increase put in place by Romney. A gun control law put in place in 1998 restricted ownership by those convicted of even minor misdemeanors in the state. In some areas of the state gun ownership went up post Romney’s fee increase, in others it declined, but overall, the ownership declined.

    Seriously, a little work before smearing would help your credibility.

    http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2007/08/12/gun_permits_drop_25_in_bay_state/

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  120. “Dustin, I’d forgive the guy I obviously got him worked up over another subject – its my fault”

    EPWJ – Thanks for acknowledging that, but your actions involved sliming someone else. Dustin was acting like you but sliming Romney.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  121. What is Rachel Marsden’s opinion on Cain……….oh wait who cares what a faux conservative like her thinks.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  122. EPWJ – Dustin says he respects the Colonel, what is his opinion with respect to whether Dustin’s commentary has been fact filled and supported by links?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  123. How can unions hijack something they have given supprt ot from the getgo?

    referring to the wall street protests.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  124. Am I being asked to referee between two or three people who think I’m a douchebag?

    okay, next I’ll actually be proof reading my comments and using passable grammer

    oh… the pain

    EricPWJohnson (c5f1fc)

  125. Dustin was acting like you but sliming Romney.

    Nope. You got your feelings hurt and decided to take things to a personal insult level, because you just have thin skin.

    Name one provable lie I’ve ever told about Romney. Everything I said was either my justified opinion or simply a provable fact.

    That’s why you reply with nastiness instead of a fact-based argument. You don’t have a fact-based argument.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  126. It is baseless lies of this sort that create ill will among people.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/8/2011 @ 1:18 pm

    There’s nothing baseless about it.

    In fact, since you surely know this, how dare you claim I lied? You know this is a completely justified view, based entirely in truth.

    I don’t even see how you can disagree. You can still like Romney, I guess, but my point if correct.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  127. romney is like that skudgy stuff what collects around the base of your faucet

    I keep a little toothbrush under the sink for that.

    but where is America’s little toothbrush I ask you?

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  128. So will the left use Mccarthys tactics on Cain even though they despised him.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  129. The irony of that statement from the Jakarta journeyman, is enough to ‘cross the streams’

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  130. The irony of happyfeets statement is so extreme.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  131. Here’s why attempts by posters here to compare the successes and failures of the two governors are bound to be largely unsuccessful and unpersuasive: The states we are talking about are totally different– both in place and time. I saw this quote a little while back which I thought was very good.

    “The jockey in the horse race is very important, but which horse he gets on also matters.” Terry Clower, director of the Center for Economic Development and Research at the University of North Texas.

    elissa (288b43)

  132. Here’s an excellent post from Hugh Hewitt (posted today) that would help educate many folks who post on this wonderful site:

    http://www.hughhewitt.com/blog/g/43aff2dd-c629-442c-a19e-f58b00fcfc00

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  133. Bill Bennett just chastised the pastor who called Mormons cultists from the podium at the Values Voters Conference.. (From HotAir)

    “Do not give voice to bigotry.” Bennett addressed his comments to Jeffress directly, saying “You did Perry no good, sir,”, and accused him of stepping on the other candidates as well.

    elissa (288b43)

  134. Ironic the wall strete protests held a eulgoy for Setve jobbs although they lambasted capitialism.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  135. Eulogy*

    Bennett accusing others of bigotry.

    The wall street protesters are anti-semetic jackholes.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  136. The states we are talking about are totally different– both in place and time.

    I think we can compare them if we try. They aren’t similar, of course. But it’s more of a holistic look. I think some calls Perry made were wrong, and looking at that gives insight. I think the same can be said of Romney’s policies. I can’t compare Gardasil to a gun tax increase objectively, but that’s not too big a problem.

    And yes, the time was different. Perry’s led in a boom and in a recession. Romney only led in a boom. That is worth noticing.

    Haiku, any anti Romney bigotry does Perry no good, I completely agree. I am proud that Perry is not a low political opportunist trying to take advantage of anti Mormon sentiment, the way I felt Huckabee was.

    I don’t know what else we can compare these men on, if not their records. I have concluded that Romney’s promises, even the most heartfelt promise never to waver, passionately presented with a firey rebuke to any who doubt his sincerity, will change the moment it’s political advantageous. Because Romney has done that a few times. Romney’s effort to serve us his agenda in detail is great, and shows respect to the voters I hope Perry matches in the same way, but all I really trust in comparing the two is their records.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  137. “Nope. You got your feelings hurt and decided to take things to a personal insult level, because you just have thin skin.

    Name one provable lie I’ve ever told about Romney. Everything I said was either my justified opinion or simply a provable fact.”

    Dustin – Just not what the record shows. I find the accusation of having thin skin hilarious, since when it comes to Perry, you can read a newspaper through your skin and that of EPWJ and retire05.

    Since you persist, let’s take a look at the record and try to figure out your actual position:

    “with their anti-Romney insults and their inflated/conflated opinions of Palin and it about drives me around the bend.

    BTW, guilty as charged. I would vote Palin before Romney 7 days a week, and the reason is simply a gut level thing. I just find myself unable to give Romney a shot.
    Comment by Dustin — 9/6/2011 @ 5:10 pm”

    “However, Gary, I think you’re right about Bain. I didn’t understand what Romney was doing there until fairly recently, but clearly Romney is a smart businessman. I don’t see this relating extremely well to the Presidency, but it’s still pretty impressive. I’d say it ranks similarly to what Palin did before being Governor, and his governorship ranks similarly to hers as well.
    I think Perry is in a completely different league.
    Comment by Dustin — 9/7/2011 @ 11:45 am

    Palin was a great governor of Alaska. That means a lot of people, especially crooks, disagreed with her. So what? So the oil companies couldn’t get Alaskan oil at a fraction of its value without bribing the Murkowskis. What do I care?
    Comment by Dustin — 9/7/2011 @ 11:50 am”

    Romney was not a failed governor, not by a long shot, Dustin. He didn’t run for re-election… is that what constitutes failure?

    “He had a negative disapproval rating. It was so bad he didn’t even bother running.
    And I’m not being “fed” anything. I’m not repeating anyone’s talking points, and if you think I am, you are delusional. A lot of conservatives, basically all of them who have a brain, realize Romney is not one.
    Comment by Dustin — 9/7/2011 @ 7:12 pm”

    “My humble attempts at humor seem to rile you, Dustin. Take a look at your posts and tell me if they aren’t more than a little filled with invective toward Mitt Romney.
    Perry and his supporters will have to man-up, cuz it’s going to be tough out there.
    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 9/7/2011 @ 8:38 pm

    Of course it bugs me to see a nominal conservative support a jackass like Romney.
    And I have never hidden my distaste for Romney. Frankly there are very few politicians I like. I don’t like Perry, for example. But he’s got a great record. What’s Romney got? The word of a man with no core principles. Conveniently gauged by the polls. Shifting with the wind.
    School yard taunts are pathetic. We’re talking about the future of this great country. This isn’t professional wrestling.
    Anyway, I do not care if you have a problem with my comments. Romney can’t take the heat. His attitude of being above the fray is a carefully staged prop. That’s why his campaign had to lie about Perry just after the debate.
    They have no honor, frankly.
    Comment by Dustin — 9/7/2011 @ 8:44 pm”

    “and Romney ain’t doing so bad either, Aaron. Look, if Perry is the nominee, I can and will support him. But think twice when your opinions line up with Eric “PeeWee” Johnson.
    Comment by ColonelHaiku

    Both Perry and Romney are huge upgrades over Obama. Both are intelligent men with a very similar agenda. I just know one has walked the walk a lot. One has a record of tax and spending increases in a boom, the other of spending cuts and handling downturns fairly well.
    I definitely prefer Perry, and I don’t see EPWJ’s comments as any kind of problem.
    And I do think Romney’s polls are interesting. He lost a lot of support very quickly. His supporters seemed itchy for another option.
    Romney is highly electable. But I really like Perry’s simple argument. I think he’s got a more plausible case.
    Comment by Dustin — 9/12/2011 @ 5:40 pm”

    The above illustrate a public display of schizophrenia rather than a good faith discussion of a candidate. “I have never hidden my distaste for Romney” and “I just find myself unable to give Romney a shot” completely contradicted in other comments. Admonishing the Colonel for schoolyard taunts while tossing them off left and right – only the brain dead believe Romney is conservative – as an example? You compare Romney’s governorship favorably to Palin’s, which you call great, only to slam it elsewhere.

    I can’t call the above intellectually honest or consistent fact-filled debate and the above are only a small selection of comments from the first half of September. You got significantly more unhinged and thin-skinned in the latter half of the month.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  138. elissa, I will, as I did with McCain, hold my nose and vote for the nominee running against Obama.

    I didn’t have to hold my nose to vote for McCain; I voted for Palin, and simply ignored the other name on the ticket. Before he picked Palin I was not going to vote for him; I would either have voted for Barr, or written in the ghost of Barry Goldwater.

    Milhouse (644f18)

  139. colonoelhaikus posts are like poison sumac but he does make good points sometimes.

    I prefer tasty non-poison sumac. It comes in a little container when you order Persian food, and it’s good on grilled meats.

    Milhouse (644f18)

  140. _________________________________________________

    You know, Mark, Mexico has been under the PAN, the closest counterpart to the GOP for the better part of a decade

    I know that country’s previous president, Vincente Fox, would be analogous to the US electing George Bush in 2000 (which, in fact, is the actual, same year that Fox won the Mexican presidency) to run a nation that otherwise allowed nothing but an endless succession of Franklin Roosevelts, Bill Clintons and Jimmy Carters. IOW, a history of voting in a manner typical of most urban American areas—consistently and mindlessly of the left.

    Fox and his PAN successor — who held onto the presidency only because the left split its votes between 2 of the 3 candidates on the ballot — also are similar to an Arnold Schwarzenegger becoming governor of California in a state that is otherwise totally liberal, or Rudolph Giuliani (or Richard Riordan in LA) becoming mayor of a city that is otherwise mostly leftwing.

    Such generally down-to-earth people trying to manage affairs in the middle of a political atmosphere that is heavily tilted to the left can’t be characterized as a true sea change in a nation’s (or community’s) long history of ideology and governance.

    Mark (411533)

  141. Romney isnt highly electable, he came in third to McCain and Huckabee and outspent both of them by almost linear functions

    Romney is a good man, so are alot of people, he has a tepid record as Gov, an average to tepid record as a CEO, a questionable fundraising record at the Olympics, and has a religion where his relatives were founders of that is widely rejected by the mainstream.

    Looking at it in retrospect Romney’s been running for years and isnt making any traction

    EricPWJohnson (2a58f7)

  142. And “alot” rears its ugly head, once again! ^^^

    [well, SOMETHING reared its ugly head]

    Icy Texan (685390)

  143. “…he came in third to McCain and Huckabee…”

    Apples & Oranges!
    That was then, this is now; and times are different.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (41579f)

  144. How, how are they different? seriously please elaborate how on earth are they different? He has the same number in the polls now as he had 4 years ago

    EricPWJohnson (2a58f7)

  145. Sammy, all those Cain comments strike me as sincere. Granted, the man obviously has an ego to run for Prez as his first political campaign. It’s pretty amazing. But it’s not like he’s failing at it.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  146. Q. Where does God fit into this because you were a long shot and now jetting to the top of the polls? How do you see God’s role in all of this?

    Cain: God’s been in this from the beginning because when I first started to feel that I needed to consider running I did a lot of praying. I felt like Moses when God said, ‘I want you to go into Egypt and lead my people out.’ Moses resisted. I resisted. Moses said you got the wrong person. You can’t be talking about me.

    I had these conversations with God in terms of, ‘Lord, I’ve done a lot of things but are you sure? But you shouldn’t question God. You should just make sure that’s the message.

    God has been in this since the beginning and my staff and I we say that all the time. There are certain things that happen along this journey that they couldn’t happen unless God was in it. I know that for a fact because of my life long faith.
    =========================

    It sounds like he feels this has been a little bit too easy for him, (he doesn’t explain what here) so he feels this may be his destiny.

    Sammy Finkelman (d3daeb)

  147. Obama disproves this theory. We needed greatness, but got a schmuck.

    His term isn’t over. He hasn’t yet invaded Pakistan. Or saved the Euro. Maybe he’ll do something about Iran too as well. You don’t know.

    He’s studying. He didn’t do it before. He’s leaving work early and poring over briefing books now. That means something.

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/10/10/michael-goodwin-aimless-obama-walks-alone/

    The president’s workdays are said to end early, often at 4 p.m. He usually has dinner in the family residence with his wife and daughters, then retreats to a private office. One person said he takes a stack of briefing books. Others aren’t sure what he does.

    What we do know is that he’s ignoring Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and that, of all the old things he did, he seems most interested in talking politics and campaigning.

    Maybe it is not only Pakistan and the fallout from the European defaults. There’s North Korea Syria. But of course, anyway, that theory is wrong.

    In the meantime the Supreme Court may bail him out of his health care mistake, and the Republicans may tie themselves into knots over immigration.

    Sammy Finkelman (d3daeb)


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