Patterico's Pontifications

9/13/2011

Last Night’s Debate

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:12 am



I didn’t see it, but the New York Times and Los Angeles Times tell me Perry got pounded. So that must be true, right?

367 Responses to “Last Night’s Debate”

  1. I thought it was about the Tea Party audience booing Perry’s immigration position, which is more consistent with the two papers. See, the Tea Party is good for something after all.

    AZ Bob (aa856e) — 9/13/2011 @ 7:18 am

  2. what we learned is that lots of Team R people lie with the same fluidity as our current president

    Romney and Bachmann and Santorum are particularly facile liars

    also we learned that Palin will happily knee-cap the Team R front-runner with unsubstantiated charges if it advances her opportunistic faux-populist non-campaign campaign

    you would have thought of all people the unelectable Sarah Palin would have learned to avoid unsubstantiated charges – but apparently they’re ok for other people

    happyfeet (3c92a1) — 9/13/2011 @ 7:25 am

  3. I didn’t see it either, but from today’s TV soundbites it looks like Perry got a series of semi-pointed questions designed to undermine his popularity. Romney’s efforts seemed ineffective, and Backmann appeared testy, like she had her nose out of joint.

    Overall, and from secondary sources, I’d say the combined GOP field attempted a poorly focused and disjointed attack on the front-runner which failed to stem his momentum. Perry is still way out in front and gaining ground.

    PS: turn off the italics.

    ropelight (e80c12) — 9/13/2011 @ 7:31 am

  4. Waaaaaaaaaaah how dare Palin not be a shill for the establishment…………..shut up Huckshat.

    Palin can never do anything right in your eyes

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/13/2011 @ 7:32 am

  5. close your tags

    Kevin M (563f77) — 9/13/2011 @ 7:35 am

  6. well you can forget about any dreams of sweet sarah sunshine ever serving as secretary of Energy or what have you in a Perry administration, in fact it’s doubtful they’d let this slag’s lying mouf anywhere near the Team R convention

    happyfeet (3c92a1) — 9/13/2011 @ 7:37 am

  7. Funny, how we never needed an energy secretary before bumblefail Carter came up with it, and the
    whole panoply of those holding that office, have proved the point, with Chu, serving as the perfect
    parody of the office

    ian cormac (ed5f69) — 9/13/2011 @ 7:40 am

  8. Perry got hammered by the crowd for allowing in-state tuition for some illegal children, and for his Guardasil order (later withdrawn).

    I note that the further away from the border politicians get, the braver they are with respect to Hispanic voters. Perry has to deal with what is possible.

    Sure, in California Republicans have held the line, but they are also well out of power.

    Kevin M (563f77) — 9/13/2011 @ 7:42 am

  9. The Timeses are reporting what they would like to be true (again), not what actually ocurred.
    Which again proves the rational for the niche that FoxNews and Roger Ailes carved out for themselves:
    We Report, You Decide!

    ***and what is with the italics?***

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (89e0e7) — 9/13/2011 @ 7:50 am

  10. I note that the further away from the border politicians get, the braver they are with respect to Hispanic voters.

    Kevin, that was the comment of the year

    EricPWJohnson (2a58f7) — 9/13/2011 @ 7:50 am

  11. Gotta love crappyfeet calling palin a slag.

    Isn’t that sexist crap?

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/13/2011 @ 7:52 am

  12. mildly sexist yes I guess but santorum was a lying slag last night as well

    happyfeet (3c92a1) — 9/13/2011 @ 7:53 am

  13. I didn’t think Palin was even in the debate.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/13/2011 @ 7:58 am

  14. Perry was under attack by Bachmann,Paul,Santorum,Rommeny and the host. Hard to come out unscathed. All in all I think he was OK, maybe the border issue needs to be explained futher. If he stays on Barry O and the economy he should be OK.

    Charles Curran (edba1d) — 9/13/2011 @ 8:20 am

  15. I thought Perry did relatively well. I also think he lost a few points for his immigration answer, which in some respects I disagree with. But he also came across as honest and much more pleasant than his competitors, who largely fired randomly at Perry, missing most of the time.

    He sure did take a ton of fire, but he really didn’t drop his niceness except one brief moment where he noted Mitt is using scare tactics (the audience loved it, and Perry clearly won the exchange no matter what the establishment will tell ya’).

    Bachmann is clearly willing to say anything.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/13/2011 @ 8:22 am

  16. I think Bachmann must have had a healthy dose of gardasil when she was a pup

    happyfeet (3c92a1) — 9/13/2011 @ 8:34 am

  17. Yeah Perry was the target du jour. And to be honest i don’t have a problem with his in-state tuition rate for the offspring of illegals.

    BT (69012f) — 9/13/2011 @ 8:35 am

  18. #2 Romney is the fluid, perfidious liar. Smearing the rest because they stand on the same stage is typical Obot mendacity.

    gary gulrud (790d43) — 9/13/2011 @ 8:39 am

  19. no Santorum with the nasty google problem said that Perry forced people to take gardasil

    that was a lie

    and Bachmann asserted that Perry sold out for $5k from Merck, which is a retarded and dishonest thing to say even for her

    where is there even a shred of proof of that? And that’s the same smear the dishonest and desperate attention whore from Alaska ran with last night.

    Disgusting.

    happyfeet (3c92a1) — 9/13/2011 @ 8:42 am

  20. “Bachmann asserted that Perry sold out for $5k from Merck”

    No, that was the question Perry posed in return.

    Now, stating that the innoculation caused mental retardation I cannot defend.

    But you are playing more loosely with the Truth than those you attack.

    gary gulrud (790d43) — 9/13/2011 @ 12:30 pm

  21. Gary – I thought Palin made that accusation on Fox, suggesting that it was simple crony capitalism.

    JD (318f81) — 9/13/2011 @ 12:37 pm

  22. No, that was the question Perry posed in return.

    I thought Bachmann’s point for part of her criticism was that Perry’s motivation was that “some company” gave him “thousands and thousands”.

    Why did she say that?

    Perry didn’t ask Bachmann a question. He said “If you’re saying I was bought for $5,000, I am offended.” That’s no question, and indeed there doesn’t need to be one. Perry wasn’t bought, and Bachmann is a shameless tool.

    Corruption is a real problem, and those who make these accusations better back them up. Crying wolf about corruption is not helping.

    She may not have phrased it precisely as Happyfeet did, but her meaning was clear.

    These people sense that Obama is extremely weak, so they see no reason for an 11th commandment. They are simply going for broke trying to tear anyone down who appears to be headed for the nomination.

    Perry is especially secure, though, with a record all of these people couldn’t match if they combined all their accomplishments onto a single resume. He just stands by his guns as though he has some kind of soul in there and is a decent human being.

    I don’t agree with Perry on everything, but I’d rather know, going in, where Perry stands, and that he’s being upfront, than deal with a coddling flip flopper.

    Gary, I liked Bachmann up to yesterday, actually. She’s done so much better than I expected, and we need champions of conservatism. But I’m done with her, and that’s permanent.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/13/2011 @ 12:42 pm

  23. Gary – I thought Palin made that accusation on Fox, suggesting that it was simple crony capitalism.

    Yes, and she made at least a plausible case, though IMHO not a fair one. She didn’t go with that nonsense about campaign contributions. Instead she seemed to suggest that the reason he’d made the decision was as a favour to his former chief of staff, who was then working for Merck. That would certainly fit the definition of crony capitalism. And she said the decision was uncharacteristic of Perry, and therefore needed some explanation, and that was the explanation that made sense. Which again is a plausible argument; we make such assumptions about 0bama all the time, even though it’s possible that he makes all these decisions on their merits, and it’s pure coincidence that his cronies profit from them. So she’s got a point when she says we should judge fellow Republicans by the same uncharitable standard we apply to Democrats. But the premise here is that the decision was uncharacteristic of Perry, and therefore needs explaining. I don’t buy that. It seems to me an unexceptional decision, even if Palin herself, when she was faced with the same choice, decided it the other way.

    Milhouse (ea66e3) — 9/13/2011 @ 12:47 pm

  24. The problem is more systemic, the head of the CDC till 2009, turned around and went to head Merck’s
    Vaccine division,

    ian cormac (ed5f69) — 9/13/2011 @ 12:49 pm

  25. But why is that a problem?

    Milhouse (ea66e3) — 9/13/2011 @ 12:52 pm

  26. even if Palin herself, when she was faced with the same choice, decided it the other way.

    What?

    Palin’s Alaska took money from my wallet and injected it into poor innocent little girls in the form of Gardasil.

    Since her argument is cronyism instead of the propriety of mandating vaccines, she really fails hard on this issue. She should have done her homework.

    I like Palin, but in pursuing this issue she shows she’s got terrible judgment. This is not a serious issue. Perry’s POV is understandable, and it’s not nearly as black and white as the zealots insist (and that’s why they have to alter the facts so badly).

    The idea Perry was bought requires evidence. Otherwise, this is truther level rhetoric. Weasel words around that accusation are not good enough.

    I have long expressed support for Palin, and hopefully I’ll be able to continue doing so. We’ll see.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/13/2011 @ 12:53 pm

  27. In other words, they need to explain, right now, why this is a powerful issue. They need evidence.

    Otherwise, they have gone down a nasty path for no reason but that Perry happens to have displaced both of them.

    All they need to do is govern a state as long and well as Perry did, if they wish to have his stature. Baseless conspiracy theories are as blatant an 11th commandment violation as ever there was.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/13/2011 @ 12:55 pm

  28. It’s the CDC, Dustin, how can she be wrong on that point, and if one bothers to look further she has
    emails indicating her opposition to mandates on vaccination in general, so her statement was actually more characteristic for her.

    ian cormac (ed5f69) — 9/13/2011 @ 1:05 pm

  29. even if Palin herself, when she was faced with the same choice, decided it the other way.

    What?

    Palin’s Alaska took money from my wallet and injected it into poor innocent little girls in the form of Gardasil.

    Not the same thing at all. The feds were offering the state money, to be used for a good purpose, so she accepted it. She’d need a powerful reason not to, and what would it be? But she had the same choice to make as Perry did: should the vaccine be included in the set which is required as a condition of admission to state schools? Doing so would save at least some lives, but it would also make lots of money for Merck. And she decided not to do that, while Perry decided to do it. She says that because he had a connection to a Merck employee, it looks bad. It looks like he was motivated by that connection rather than by the merits of the issue. I disagree, but I can’t prove her wrong.

    As for his making the decision himself instead of referring it to the legislature, sure, since we now know the legislature was so opposed to it that they overturned it, it was a mistake. But how was he to know that in advance? Some people seem to have the strange expectation that every executive decision should be referred to the legislature; in that case, why have an executive in the first place? This is especially so in Texas, where the legislature seldom meets (which is a good thing); executive decisions belong with the executive branch, and the legislature has only a veto.

    Milhouse (ea66e3) — 9/13/2011 @ 1:10 pm

  30. she has
    emails indicating her opposition to mandates on vaccination in general,

    That part I am not even talking about. She’s talking about Perry’s crony motives.

    If Palin is opposed, generally to all mandated vaccination, that is surprisingly unreasonable, IMO, but fine. Let her make her argument.

    What I’m talking about is the crony accusation.

    I like Palin, but her government took advantage of this Merck enriching crony operation. Or… is it really the case that some folks earnestly think this helps kids in spite of the terrible truth that drug companies make medicine in order to… oh no… make money?

    I hesitated to go further into discussing who in Palin’s brief administration also was a lobbyist at one point.

    I don’t really feel like bashing Palin. But she really couldn’t pass the standards she’s enacted on the politician who just happens to have totally supplanted her ambitions.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/13/2011 @ 1:11 pm

  31. It’s the CDC, Dustin, how can she be wrong on that point,

    Sorry, could you please expand that? I don’t know what you mean by it. What’s the CDC, and is “she” here Palin or Bachmann?

    Milhouse (ea66e3) — 9/13/2011 @ 1:12 pm

  32. I like Palin, but her government took advantage of this Merck enriching crony operation.

    But did she have any connection to anyone at Merck? If she didn’t, then she’s free of any appearance or accusation of cronyism, even if Merck did make money off her decision. The real question is what a governor should do if he does have a connection to a company that will make money if he makes the decision he thinks is right? Should he deliberately make the wrong decision just to avoid the appearance of impropriety?

    Milhouse (ea66e3) — 9/13/2011 @ 1:15 pm

  33. The CDC was the one that offered funds to the State of Alaska, and their health department accepted them, but it wasn’t a mandate, there was no financial tie to Merck, this is as bogus as when they attacked her on ‘death panels’ because the state had a voluntary counseling rule, on such matters.

    ian cormac (ed5f69) — 9/13/2011 @ 1:15 pm

  34. BTW, I’m still supporting Palin for president if she jumps in the race, but the interview we’re discussing did not increase my admiration for her. I’d like to see her debate Perry, and then make up my mind. But cheap shots count against whoever makes them.

    Milhouse (ea66e3) — 9/13/2011 @ 1:17 pm

  35. On the two large issues of late, Perry said that he made a mistake on the EO. Rush read 15-20 articles written by the MSM that stated :” SS is a PONZI sceme. All he has to do is stick to Barry O’s health care mandate and the economy.

    Charles Curran (edba1d) — 9/13/2011 @ 1:18 pm

  36. but it wasn’t a mandate, there was no financial tie to Merck

    I’m not talking about the mandate.

    And Merck profiting doesn’t seem like a problem to me, but of course, the CDC has a lot of turnover with Merck in both directions.

    Sorry, but those were my tax dollars Palin spent on Gardasil. If she really thinks Merck practices crony capitalism, she shouldn’t have given them my money.

    Perry didn’t give Merck my money. He wanted people to pay for the vaccine themselves, opt out, or have their insurance company pay for it.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/13/2011 @ 1:18 pm

  37. Palin is running for Palin because she gets pleasure in influence and bullying others……………says the people who whine that Palin is not running.

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/13/2011 @ 1:21 pm

  38. I missed Bachmann’s claim that some woman’s daughter became mentally retarded because of the vaccine. I don’t see how that’s even possible, unless she got an infection which spread to the brain.

    Milhouse (ea66e3) — 9/13/2011 @ 1:22 pm

  39. And yes, Charles, you’re right. Rick admits the way he tried to mandate the HOV vaccine was a mistake.

    So everyone agrees that that wasn’t the right way to do it. Perry sticks to his guns on why he make that mistake, but he’s actually not taking fire over that as much as he is over accusations he’s a crony capitalist.

    Imagine if I started making accusations like Palin is making, with the level of evidence she’s got (very little)? We all heard that crap for a while, and it wasn’t fair to Ms Palin. In fact, such accusations were why she had to resign her office before being bankrupted.

    I am really disappointed she went down that road.

    I like Palin, but I expect even folks I like to have evidence of corruption before claiming it’s happening on national TV.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/13/2011 @ 1:22 pm

  40. She was asked a question, she gave an opinion, she didn’t go crazy with Bachmann’s rant about Gardasil
    causing ‘retardation’ her word for autism I guess; I have no idea what she was talking about.

    ian cormac (ed5f69) — 9/13/2011 @ 1:27 pm

  41. Like the accusations of corruption against O’Donnell
    which were fanned by Ross and CREW, whatever became of them,

    ian cormac (ed5f69) — 9/13/2011 @ 1:29 pm

  42. Sorry, but those were my tax dollars Palin spent on Gardasil. If she really thinks Merck practices crony capitalism, she shouldn’t have given them my money.

    Um, she didn’t accuse Merck of crony capitalism, she accused Perry of it. Crony capitalism is by definition something that only politicians can practice; how could Merck practice it even if it wanted to? It doesn’t have any public money to give away to its friends. And if Palin had no connection to Merck, then how is her decision to let it profit from the CDC grant in any way like crony capitalism?

    Perry didn’t give Merck my money. He wanted people to pay for the vaccine themselves, opt out, or have their insurance company pay for it.

    It doesn’t matter whose money he “gave” Merck; the problem (if there is one, which I don’t buy) is that he gave them somebody’s money, by issuing an order which would result in Merck increasing its sales. If he had a crony who would benefit from that decision, and if that was the real reason he decided it, then that’s the definition of crony capitalism.

    Milhouse (ea66e3) — 9/13/2011 @ 1:29 pm

  43. She was asked a question, she gave an opinion, she didn’t go crazy with Bachmann’s rant about Gardasil
    causing ‘retardation’ her word for autism I guess; I have no idea what she was talking about.

    Comment by ian cormac — 9/13/2011 @ 1:27 pm

    I grant your point there. Palin was far milder and more responsible than Bachmann was. But I take Palin far more seriously than I take Bachmann. Palin is one of the main leaders of the GOP. She’s a former governor. She was our VP candidate a few years ago.

    It’s easy to establish rules for politicians that are unrealistic. They did that to Palin, and she should understand.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/13/2011 @ 1:31 pm

  44. And yes, Charles, you’re right. Rick admits the way he tried to mandate the HOV vaccine was a mistake. So everyone agrees that that wasn’t the right way to do it.

    I don’t agree, except in the general sense that any time a legislature overrides an executive decision it was probably a mistake. I don’t think he had reason to expect that it would arouse that much opposition.

    Milhouse (ea66e3) — 9/13/2011 @ 1:32 pm

  45. Wasn’t Merck the only one who had a vaccine?
    That would be like accussing the Eisenhower/Kennedy admins of crony capitalism by the mandating of the Salk/Sabin vaccine to combat Polio.
    At some point, we have to stop being too literal.
    If we expect all politicians to be purer than Caesar’s wife, we might as well entomb them upon election so that no corruption can ever touch them.
    A lot like Purdah, if you think about it.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (89e0e7) — 9/13/2011 @ 1:34 pm

  46. Wasn’t Merck the only one who had a vaccine?
    That would be like accussing the Eisenhower/Kennedy admins of crony capitalism by the mandating of the Salk/Sabin vaccine to combat Polio.

    Yes, exactly. And if they had a connection to someone who stood to make money from the drug, then they could also be accused of crony capitalism by anyone who suspected that that was the real reason for their decision. As I pointed out earlier, that is the standard we apply to 0bama, so it’s not unreasonable to ask that we apply it to everyone; but at the same time it makes us face the question of what else we expect people to do.

    Milhouse (ea66e3) — 9/13/2011 @ 1:39 pm

  47. “He wanted people to pay for the vaccine themselves, opt out, or have their insurance company pay for it.”

    Dustin – I don’t see HPV the same way as measles, mumps or whooping cough. The opt out process was none of the state’s business.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/13/2011 @ 1:42 pm

  48. And don’t forget that the early versions of the polio vaccine, unlike Gardasil, carried some serious risk. It was lower than the risk of catching polio if you weren’t vaccinated, so it was still the right thing to do, but I can well imagine someone complaining that each parent should have been given the chance to opt in, rather than have their child subjected to this dangerous vaccine without their explicit permission; and that the real reason it was being done was to boost the vaccine maker’s sales.

    Much like the claim that any decision by any administration to go to war with anyone, at any time and for any reason, is really motivated by their links to Halliburton or some other company that makes money from war.

    Milhouse (ea66e3) — 9/13/2011 @ 1:44 pm

  49. At least Perry admitted he was wrong.

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/13/2011 @ 1:45 pm

  50. Dustin – I don’t see HPV the same way as measles, mumps or whooping cough. The opt out process was none of the state’s business.

    It’s not exactly the same, of course, but it’s similar in some important ways. If your kid is in public school, you have to face the possibility that s/he will have sex with some classmates, some of whom might have HPV. If you don’t want to face that possibility, you should probably choose a different school, or home-school, and even then you have no guarantee.

    Milhouse (ea66e3) — 9/13/2011 @ 1:46 pm

  51. “The real question is what a governor should do if he does have a connection to a company that will make money if he makes the decision he thinks is right?”

    Milhouse – These are not difficult questions. They are elementary ethics.

    Do CEO’s approve their own expense reports?
    What do judges with the appearance of conflicts do?

    A governor should involve people without the appearance of any conflicts to vet the decision.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/13/2011 @ 1:50 pm

  52. 21, 22. Yes, yes, Michele is 1st tier gaffe Magic. By no means a liar, but, shall we say, not entirely under control.

    Perry had to take a modest hit on HPV but there was no reason to be unprepared on SS. It is government fraud, for a specious purpose, to bankroll government corruption and largesse.

    Texas’ cozy relationship with Mexico, job creation by means of maliquidoras and illegal labor will be a tougher sell by far.

    Again, review Stacy McCain’s clip of Bachmann recounting Jonathan’s two-man assault on Philistines possessing the high ground. The wingman on that outing was a bigger deal, eventually.

    gary gulrud (790d43) — 9/13/2011 @ 1:54 pm

  53. Do CEO’s approve their own expense reports?

    Not the same; nobody’s alleging that Perry personally profited from the decision.

    What do judges with the appearance of conflicts do? A governor should involve people without the appearance of any conflicts to vet the decision.

    That would be abdicating his responsibility. It’s his job to make the decision; he can’t fob it off on someone else. He was elected, and if the wrong decision is made because he was too concerned about appearances then it’s his fault. If girls get cancer because he let someone else override his opinion, what will he say? You had to be sacrificed for the sake of my reelection prospects?

    Milhouse (ea66e3) — 9/13/2011 @ 1:55 pm

  54. Dustin – I don’t see HPV the same way as measles, mumps or whooping cough. The opt out process was none of the state’s business.

    Comment by daleyrocks — 9/13/2011 @ 1:42 pm

    You’re right. I am explaining Perry’s argument, but ultimately I think Santorum’s argument was better.

    It’s one thing to immunize public school kids against things they will get from clawing on eachother on the playground, coughing, etc.

    There’s a different view, that the government has a chance to eradicate a source of cancer if it can immunize all women from HPV eventually, and I guess that’s how Perry felt about it, which is understable enough but I disagree.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/13/2011 @ 1:55 pm

  55. Texas’ cozy relationship with Mexico, job creation by means of maliquidoras and illegal labor will be a tougher sell by far.

    Agreed, Gary. From a cynical POV, this probably helps Perry a lot if he is our nominee, but that’s not necessarily a good argument. We want politicians to be scared of being weak on immigration issues.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/13/2011 @ 1:57 pm

  56. “It’s not exactly the same, of course, but it’s similar in some important ways.”

    Milhouse – It is a known fact that teenagers have sex, whether they are in public school, private school or home schooled. Unlike measles, mumps or whooping cough which can be transmitted just by proximity in which the school has a vested interest in preventing unvaccinated children from attendance, what interest is served by informing the school of which girls have or have not been vaccinated with the HPV virus? Do the schools intend to maintain a “do not screw” list for the boys and the staff?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/13/2011 @ 1:59 pm

  57. And if they had a connection to someone who stood to make money from the drug,

    They all have connections, the question if whether they profited from that action themselves.
    If my “aide” goes to work for Time-Warner, and I switch cable from DISH to Time-Warner, do I profit?
    Does my “aide”?

    Literalism will be the death of us all.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (89e0e7) — 9/13/2011 @ 1:59 pm

  58. It’s not exactly the same, of course, but it’s similar in some important ways. If your kid is in public school, you have to face the possibility that s/he will have sex with some classmates, some of whom might have HPV. If you don’t want to face that possibility, you should probably choose a different school, or home-school, and even then you have no guarantee.

    Comment by Milhouse — 9/13/2011 @ 1:46 pm

    It’s not even about kids having sex with classmates. The way HPV is transmitted has no relevance to the fact that it has to be administered at a young age in order to work.

    A woman who was a virgin until marriage can still, at age 25 or 40, marry a man that carries HPV (for whatever reason) and she would still be at higher risk for cervical cancer. It’s not about kids having sex.

    carlitos (49ef9f) — 9/13/2011 @ 2:00 pm

  59. transmitted just by proximity
    which was the argument in favor of mandatory polio vaccinations.

    I grew up with a couple kids who came down with Polio and were consigned to a life in an iron-lung – it is no way to live.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (89e0e7) — 9/13/2011 @ 2:02 pm

  60. there’s so much in this thread what makes me feel heartened about my little country’s future

    Mr. Governor Perry is really bringing people together it’s a beautiful thing to see

    happyfeet (a55ba0) — 9/13/2011 @ 2:03 pm

  61. Nice 40 yr old virgin reference.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/13/2011 @ 2:03 pm

  62. Just to clarify “at a young age” means before they have the sex. For two reasons – one, if it’s before they have the sex, it’s before they can spread HPV sexually (even if they never plan to have sex, like ever). And two, most people don’t bother with vaccines after they get out of school and its required vaccine regimen. So, to help with herd immunity, you gotta get ’em young.

    http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1706631,00.html

    carlitos (49ef9f) — 9/13/2011 @ 2:07 pm

  63. “Not the same; nobody’s alleging that Perry personally profited from the decision.”
    “That would be abdicating his responsibility. It’s his job to make the decision”

    Milhouse – Wrong. You are getting caught up in your own thinking again. A CEO may have made the decision to spend corporate funds. He needs someone to verify that it was in accordance with corporate policy and procedures. It would be a conflict of interest for him to approve his own expenditures. A governor can make the final decision in the situation I described, not fobbing it off on others as you suggested. Having others to point to who have looked at the situation independently can remove the taint of potential conflict.

    These are basics. Most state government codes of ethics have some rules relating to such matters.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/13/2011 @ 2:08 pm

  64. I’m sure we’ll see a correction in the NYT in a few weeks that corrects the article to read that Obama got pounded. Because of a copy error of course.

    SPQR (26be8b) — 9/13/2011 @ 2:10 pm

  65. Gotta love the idiots who say they will vote for Palin over Obama…………….they deserved to be shot for treason.

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/13/2011 @ 2:11 pm

  66. That’s very helpful, reasoned rhetoric there, DohBiden.

    carlitos (49ef9f) — 9/13/2011 @ 2:13 pm

  67. I think doh forgot his sarc tag.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (89e0e7) — 9/13/2011 @ 2:16 pm

  68. 65. Who should I write in if Romney gets the nod?

    gary gulrud (790d43) — 9/13/2011 @ 2:18 pm

  69. I mean obama over palin.

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/13/2011 @ 2:21 pm

  70. it was a typo.

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/13/2011 @ 2:22 pm

  71. DohBiden, make sure your shoot orders for treason don’t get the wrong names in them.

    SPQR (26be8b) — 9/13/2011 @ 2:22 pm

  72. You got the names backwards but you meant to type “shot for treason.” Outstanding.

    carlitos (49ef9f) — 9/13/2011 @ 2:23 pm

  73. Well geesh I feel so passionate about not voting for obama.

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/13/2011 @ 2:24 pm

  74. Carlitos

    I think MD in Philly will know the answer but what I remember is the vaccines best success is to be administered before sexually maturity

    Also at the time Perry mandated it many states were considering it and more would have a mandate if the unit cost could come down

    EricPWJohnson (c5f1fc) — 9/13/2011 @ 2:24 pm

  75. sexually mature

    sorry

    EricPWJohnson (c5f1fc) — 9/13/2011 @ 2:26 pm

  76. 😀

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/13/2011 @ 2:27 pm

  77. It’s one of the things I like about Perry; it’s nice to see him embrace science instead of that whole creationism in science class. And Bachmann’s now repeating some poor misinformed woman’s anti-vaccine hysterical claims after the debate, like that’s really helpful. Maybe she can go on Oprah’s network with Jenny McCarthy and help kill more babies with disinformation.

    carlitos (49ef9f) — 9/13/2011 @ 2:30 pm

  78. creationism should be taught in religious class.

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/13/2011 @ 2:32 pm

  79. “I think MD in Philly will know the answer but what I remember is the vaccines best success is to be administered before sexually maturity”

    EricPW – Before sexual debut, actually, since the virus is spread primarily by sexual activity. CDC says girls as young as nine can handle the vaccinations and recommends catch up vaccinations for women up to age 26. They also now recommend the vaccinations for certain men.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/13/2011 @ 2:32 pm

  80. Your right about Bachmann.

    Listening to Paul Krugman leads to mental retardation in you and your children.

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/13/2011 @ 2:33 pm

  81. They also now recommend the vaccinations for certain men.

    Andrew Sullivan?

    JD (318f81) — 9/13/2011 @ 2:34 pm

  82. Epwj?

    JD (318f81) — 9/13/2011 @ 2:35 pm

  83. I think this is all caused by proximity to power lines (Heh!).

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (89e0e7) — 9/13/2011 @ 2:35 pm

  84. …and if it’s electricity generated by coal, it is even more insidious.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (89e0e7) — 9/13/2011 @ 2:37 pm

  85. Romney- No convictions.
    Huntsman- No matter.
    Perry- No brains.
    Gingrich- No credibility.
    Paul- No way.
    Bachmann- No chance.
    Santorum- No chance in hell.
    Cain- Nein, nein, nein.

    Big winner- Kurt Cobain.
    Big loser- 30 year old in coma.
    Honorable mention- Ronald Reagan.

    DCSCA (9d1bb3) — 9/13/2011 @ 2:49 pm

  86. I was more annoyed with Perry’s view on our role in Afghanistan, than this rather tangential matter,

    ian cormac (ed5f69) — 9/13/2011 @ 2:50 pm

  87. Oh my goodness your not a manly man.

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/13/2011 @ 2:51 pm

  88. I kind of like Huntsman, but he’s probably just paving the way for 2016.

    carlitos (49ef9f) — 9/13/2011 @ 2:57 pm

  89. ian, that’s a very good way to see this. Why are we talking about this matter, if not to rile up emotions and vague accusations of corruption with no evidence?

    Ace is comparing this to accusing Cheney or corruption with Halliburton, or, amusingly, Palin’s financial stake in conservatives not being in power (he’s kidding).

    I think that’s right. This is a sideshow. It’s not grounded in reality.

    Perry’s views on foreign policy are incredibly important.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/13/2011 @ 2:58 pm

  90. I kind of like Huntsman, but he’s probably just paving the way for 2016.

    Comment by carlitos — 9/13/2011 @ 2:57 pm

    He’s had some surprisingly good ideas for a complete phony.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/13/2011 @ 2:59 pm

  91. “I kind of like Huntsman, but he’s probably just paving the way for 2016.”

    carlitos – What are the odds Obama will annoint him his successor?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/13/2011 @ 3:05 pm

  92. No, he’s not kidding,

    ian cormac (ed5f69) — 9/13/2011 @ 3:06 pm

  93. Huntsman?! ZOMFGWTFBBQ

    JD (352bcf) — 9/13/2011 @ 3:13 pm

  94. Yeah, Huntsman’s a joke. Once in a while he says something pretty smart, kinda like a reverse Ron Paul.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/13/2011 @ 3:15 pm

  95. http://jammiewearingfool.blogspot.com/2011/09/predictable-liberal-advocacy-group-hits.html?m=1

    ian cormac (ed5f69) — 9/13/2011 @ 3:16 pm

  96. Ian, that’s predictable. Obama aide cites provable lies in NYT to accuse Issa. A desperate move, and a good sign that one of these GOP candidates MUST beat this corrupt Obama administration.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/13/2011 @ 3:19 pm

  97. Well then, he’s completely interchangeable with Sloe-Joe, isn’t he?

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (89e0e7) — 9/13/2011 @ 3:19 pm

  98. They also now recommend the vaccinations for certain men.

    IIRC, HPV can infect either sex, so why not vaccinate men and slow the spread. Vaccines do NOT confer immunity they confer resistance. Which is why clusters of non-immunized people endanger others; they serve as footholds for the disease where none are supposed to exist.

    Once we had eradicated rubella, measles and whooping cough. Now they are back. Even polio is a danger again. Stupid fuc*wits.

    Anyone who has such a deficit of critical thinking as to say what Bachman said has NO EFFING BUSINESS running for President. I would rather give drugs and car keys to teenage boys.

    Kevin M (4eb9c8) — 9/13/2011 @ 3:20 pm

  99. Anyone want to be that Huntsman isn’t OBAMA’s VP pick in 2012?

    Kevin M (4eb9c8) — 9/13/2011 @ 3:25 pm

  100. I guess that I’m missing something here. It wouldn’t be the first time.

    carlitos (49ef9f) — 9/13/2011 @ 3:29 pm

  101. Romney- No convictions.
    Huntsman- No matter.
    Perry- No brains.
    Gingrich- No credibility.
    Paul- No way.
    Bachmann- No chance.
    Santorum- No chance in hell.
    Cain- Nein, nein, nein.

    OK, I’ll bite. What, besides being a Republican, do you think indicates Perry has no brains? Why, does Gingrich have no credibility? Why do you make racist comments about Cain? Why do you support Obama then attack others for lack of conviction? Or credibility? Or mattering?

    Kevin M (4eb9c8) — 9/13/2011 @ 3:29 pm

  102. He, the IMP, does what he does because he can’t do anything else.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (89e0e7) — 9/13/2011 @ 3:31 pm

  103. http://hotair.com/archives/2011/09/13/newt-as-vp/

    EricPWJohnson (c5f1fc) — 9/13/2011 @ 3:47 pm

  104. I can not picture Newt vs Slow Joe in a debate.

    Bambi vs Godzilla.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/13/2011 @ 3:52 pm

  105. Anyone wanna lay odds on Newt being the actual VP candidate? Ice cube’s chance in hell …

    JD (6d8a47) — 9/13/2011 @ 3:58 pm

  106. Didn’t you hear Bachmann went back in time and killed Kurt Cobain.

    /Sarcasm off

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/13/2011 @ 4:01 pm

  107. carlitos – I replayed the Kielbasa Q vid for two of my boys last night. Big hit. Thx.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/13/2011 @ 4:01 pm

  108. I would like the VP to have solid executive experience. I want him to be capable of handling leadership in a crisis. I also want him to be conservative on spending, strong on foreign policy, and am more flexible with him on other issues than I’d be for the Presidential candidate.

    Anyone watching these debates has to be enjoying Newt’s role, but he’s made a lot of goofs over the years. Newt would be a decent choice, I guess.

    But we’ve got plenty of pretty decent executives up to VP caliber. Mitch, Rudy, Walker, Jindal (here comes a birther), Christie, dare I say Jeb (no, I really don’t dare).

    Not Rubio (who is great, but not ready).

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/13/2011 @ 4:11 pm

  109. I think Nikki Haley would make a nice vp

    happyfeet (a55ba0) — 9/13/2011 @ 4:21 pm

  110. As a Steve Dahl guy, I was never the biggest Howard Stern fan, but some of his stuff was sublime.

    carlitos (49ef9f) — 9/13/2011 @ 4:27 pm

  111. so Big Zero says we need to choose between “tax breaks for Big Oil” or $500,000,000,000 to buy drums for high school students in Philly. What is it with these allegedly brainy people who put so little faith in the ability of the American people to see right thru each and every scam?

    What happened to the last trillion dollars, Big Zero?

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d) — 9/13/2011 @ 4:33 pm

  112. Col., You can’t ask such questions in mixed company.
    Oh, the Humanity!

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (89e0e7) — 9/13/2011 @ 4:38 pm

  113. DCSCA
    stick your head up your azz and
    see if it fits, meng

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d) — 9/13/2011 @ 4:38 pm

  114. we’re all gonna die of the consumption if I read Mr. drudge right

    happyfeet (a55ba0) — 9/13/2011 @ 4:39 pm

  115. The IMP has a very small head, and a very large….

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (89e0e7) — 9/13/2011 @ 4:39 pm

  116. what… colonel too late?
    colonel always tells the truth
    even when he lies

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d) — 9/13/2011 @ 4:41 pm

  117. Well, Mooshelle’s been saying we’re consuming too much, and need to trim down.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (89e0e7) — 9/13/2011 @ 4:41 pm

  118. Rick Perry has done such a great job as Governor of Texas, we oughtta keep him there.

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d) — 9/13/2011 @ 4:42 pm

  119. O/T, but when do the polls close in NY-9?

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (89e0e7) — 9/13/2011 @ 4:43 pm

  120. Mr. Rick will just have to do there’s nobody else in the running what is presidential really

    happyfeet (a55ba0) — 9/13/2011 @ 4:43 pm

  121. The Col. is being generous with left-handed compliments.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (89e0e7) — 9/13/2011 @ 4:44 pm

  122. unless you count action superstar Taylor Lautner

    happyfeet (a55ba0) — 9/13/2011 @ 4:45 pm

  123. O/T, but when do the polls close in NY-9?

    Usually polls close here at 9pm. That would be in 1:12.

    Milhouse (ea66e3) — 9/13/2011 @ 4:48 pm

  124. Mr. Rick will just have to do there’s nobody else in the running what is presidential really

    Someone please remind me why I’d decided against Huntsman.

    Milhouse (ea66e3) — 9/13/2011 @ 4:49 pm

  125. Obama- No convictions.
    Obama- No matter.
    Obama- No brains.
    Obama- No credibility.
    Obama- No way.
    Obama- No chance.
    Obama- No chance in hell
    Obama- Nein Nein Nein

    elissa (08a787) — 9/13/2011 @ 4:50 pm

  126. I want to see Rick Perry’s Plan to Rejuvenate the American Economy… a three slide Powerpoint deck:

    Slide 1: Title page
    Slide 2: Misson Statement – “Get Out of the Way!”
    Slide 3: Conclusion

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d) — 9/13/2011 @ 4:51 pm

  127. the star power that vexes lives in Texas.

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d) — 9/13/2011 @ 4:52 pm

  128. I want to see Rick Perry’s Plan to Rejuvenate the American Economy… a three slide Powerpoint deck:

    Slide 1: Title page
    Slide 2: Misson Statement – “Get Out of the Way!”
    Slide 3: Conclusion

    Sounds like a reformulation of the original statement of liberal (i.e. conservative) principles, as the French businessmen gave it to Colbert in 1680: The best thing the state can do for commerce is Laissez faire.

    Milhouse (ea66e3) — 9/13/2011 @ 4:57 pm

  129. Huntsman is too Mr. Rogers goes to Washington

    happyfeet (a55ba0) — 9/13/2011 @ 5:00 pm

  130. plus also he’s a colossal tool

    happyfeet (a55ba0) — 9/13/2011 @ 5:00 pm

  131. I want to see Rick Perry’s Plan to Rejuvenate the American Economy… a three slide Powerpoint deck:

    This is the funny thing about combating tax and spend liberals, though. They are sure that the solution to any problem is for the government to outthink the private sector with planning and leadership. An effective administration will resist the urge to do that.

    It isn’t as though the government getting out the the way is what created a million Texas jobs. Private Texan employers found several thousand innovative ideas for making money, and hired people as an investment.

    They do that more when government is at least predictable with regulation, taxes are as low as reasonably possible, and government is there to handle the things government legitimately needs to do (fight horrible fires or facilitate highways or whatever it may be).

    One thing is really damn clear by now, a leader who raises taxes, fees, and government spending, can only see that work well in a boom he lucked into, and his behavior will cool the boom anyway, making apples to apples comparisons look pretty weak.

    For example, Mr Romney mocked Perry’s 1% job growth rate because Romney’s job growth rate (from 2003 to 2007) was higher. Of course, 2008 to 2011 is a damn different world than 2003 to 2007, and Romney’s job growth rate compared to other states of that period is inferior to Perry’s and all but two out of fifty other governors.

    But it worked for Romney to some extent. three out of four years of his governorship increased both spending and all four saw increased tax revenues and rates. Many problems in MA were approached directly by government, and more of less, I think Romney handled those approaches with skill as a manager and leader.

    But that’s so different from Romney’s current agenda, which mirror’s the Texas way. A way that works even when the economy isn’t booming, and provably keeps the boom going longer and better.

    Mitt Romney would make a fine improvement over Obama, but I don’t think he’s the fundamental change we’re looking for. He’s more ready for prime time TV than any presidential candidate I’ve seen since John Edwards, but I really want something a bit bolder.

    Perry isn’t perfect or anything. One reason he’s being attacked is because he’s goofed up on a few things (though most of the attacks are nasty lies, IMO). But I’m not asking for a perfect master of everything to govern our way our of recession. I really do like that Perry’s long successful tenure and presidential mantra suggests he doesn’t think the government is the solution.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/13/2011 @ 5:12 pm

  132. Plus Perry shoots coyotes, and Romney actually banned some guns at one point.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/13/2011 @ 5:13 pm

  133. Romney signed MA’s ban on the evil “assault weapon” – whatever that is (and Yes, as a Californian and an FFL, I am intimately involved with what is and isn’t an AW, and what Mitt banned isn’t anything like Aaron).

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (89e0e7) — 9/13/2011 @ 5:16 pm

  134. Well he seems subpar with Weld and Cellucci’s progress, so regardless of the MassCare thing, it doesn’t commend itself, did you really compare him
    with Edwards who was really a tool and a half:

    http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/emails-obama-white-house-monitored-huge-loan-connected/story?id=14508865

    ian cormac (ed5f69) — 9/13/2011 @ 5:17 pm

  135. Dustin

    Fox had the numbers Texas was 8th in Job creation while Romney was Gov

    Mass was 47th

    Before Perry Became Lt Gov (under Bush), Texas was 43rd in job creation

    EricPWJohnson (c5f1fc) — 9/13/2011 @ 5:17 pm

  136. Social Security… unconstitutional?… or just a Ponzi scheme?

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d) — 9/13/2011 @ 5:27 pm

  137. both.

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/13/2011 @ 5:30 pm

  138. Unconstitutional,

    Requires participation but they were clever enough to label it a tax

    EricPWJohnson (c5f1fc) — 9/13/2011 @ 5:31 pm

  139. Sounds like a reformulation of the original statement of liberal (i.e. conservative) principles, as the French businessmen gave it to Colbert in 1680: The best thing the state can do for commerce is Laissez faire.

    Comment by Milhouse

    True, to an extent. But how does one get government “out of the way”? What steps need to be taken? What will be proposed? What is the amount of time required to accomplish that plan?

    etc.,… etc.,… etc.

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d) — 9/13/2011 @ 5:40 pm

  140. Romney managed to shoot himself on Oreilly

    I almost feel sorry for him

    EricPWJohnson (c5f1fc) — 9/13/2011 @ 5:46 pm

  141. True, to an extent. But how does one get government “out of the way”? What steps need to be taken? What will be proposed? What is the amount of time required to accomplish that plan?

    Just repealing thousands of laws and regulations at random will do a lot more good than harm. For a more cautious approach, appoint 10 or 20 panels, each to take a volume of the US Code or an area of regulations, and go through them one by one, demanding from civil service witnesses an explanation for why we can’t live without it, and what disaster would ensue if we repealed it. If they can’t come up with a plausible story, include it in an omnibus repeal bill to be submitted to Congress. Once that passes, go through the stack of reasons submitted to keep certain laws and regulations, and see whether they make sense. If not, include the law or regulation in question in a second omnibus repeal law. Rinse, lather, repeat.

    Milhouse (ea66e3) — 9/13/2011 @ 5:52 pm

  142. For a start, and it might be considered facetious but it’s a good starting point, you might consider just taking every fifth entry in the Federal Register and $hit-canning it.
    Then you can work on the other 80%!
    Better yet, every entry in the Federal Register should receive an up-or-down vote in Congress – make them accountable for the crap that the bureaucracy is dreaming up. And, every proposal should have some bureaucrats name attached to it so that he may be called before Congress for questioning as to what in the Hell he was thinking?
    A little of that, and there would be a whole lot less meddlin’ goin’ on.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (89e0e7) — 9/13/2011 @ 5:59 pm

  143. Can Perry win the nomination on the basis of his personal charm?

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d) — 9/13/2011 @ 6:00 pm

  144. Eric Johnson… it’s a safe bet that whatever position you take… whatever choice you make… wise is the man who takes the opposite tack.

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d) — 9/13/2011 @ 6:02 pm

  145. Why not, JFK did!

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (89e0e7) — 9/13/2011 @ 6:02 pm

  146. Comment by Milhouse — 9/13/2011 @ 5:52 pm

    There may be an employment opportunity for you, Milhouse…. call 1-800-FOR-TEXAS!

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d) — 9/13/2011 @ 6:05 pm

  147. Perry was offended that Bachmann said he was bought for a measly $5,000. That left colonel wondering what was a fair price for Perry’s soul?

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d) — 9/13/2011 @ 6:09 pm

  148. dude Perry has no soul remember he likes to kick puppies and steal the lollipop of little kids.

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/13/2011 @ 6:10 pm

  149. Did y’all get the HPV vaccine by mistake?

    Spartacvs (4dede9) — 9/13/2011 @ 6:12 pm

  150. kickin’ puppies is a capital offense in Texas, pal… you didn’t see “Old Yeller”, didja?

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d) — 9/13/2011 @ 6:14 pm

  151. Col

    I can sympathize with your daunting task of defending Romney’s never ending trail of misstatements and flip flops

    EricPWJohnson (c5f1fc) — 9/13/2011 @ 6:15 pm

  152. C’mon, EPWJ. Given your own history of doughty clinging to a particular point of view, all alone here, repeatedly arguing and arguing…didn’t you find that statement to Colonel Haiku just a bit…ironic?

    Simon Jester (c8876d) — 9/13/2011 @ 6:17 pm

  153. Col,

    Why after outspending Huckabee by Logarithmic scales did he lose to the guy?

    Couldn’t beat a fake TV preacher who raised taxes constantly in one of the poorest states in the country?

    Weare talking about Mitt the 3rd right?

    EricPWJohnson (c5f1fc) — 9/13/2011 @ 6:20 pm

  154. Our EPWJ
    Arguing endlessly here
    Never sees mirror

    Simon Jester (c8876d) — 9/13/2011 @ 6:20 pm

  155. Simon,

    You missed the part where we discussed raising taxes = raising prices

    EricPWJohnson (c5f1fc) — 9/13/2011 @ 6:21 pm

  156. A wise man can see
    When he displays hated traits
    And reflects on self

    Simon Jester (c8876d) — 9/13/2011 @ 6:21 pm

  157. Poor Simon

    Okay, does raising taxes on oil companies led to higher prices?

    Yes or No?

    EricPWJohnson (c5f1fc) — 9/13/2011 @ 6:23 pm

  158. Actually, I’m still fascinated by your claims that “many” people here agree with you.

    I’d like to see a list.

    Unless you are counting the voices howling in your deranged head, dude.

    You just like to argue. And I think you know that your opinion, um, doesn’t constitute a majority opinion here.

    Historically, you have not covered yourself in glory.

    But please: do go on picking fights and repeating yourself. I like the new commenters to see what you are.

    Simon Jester (c8876d) — 9/13/2011 @ 6:24 pm

  159. Simon,

    Yes or no?

    Raising taxes – will they raise prices?

    EricPWJohnson (c5f1fc) — 9/13/2011 @ 6:26 pm

  160. Yes or no:

    Have you ever seen a mental health professional?

    You really are a silly tool, dude.

    Chillax.

    Simon Jester (c8876d) — 9/13/2011 @ 6:27 pm

  161. And folks: do chime in. Who here thinks EPWJ is a clear, honest thinker?

    Bueller?

    Seriously, dude. People are laughing at you. Or are bored. Think about it.

    Simon Jester (c8876d) — 9/13/2011 @ 6:28 pm

  162. Simon

    We are talking about Obama wanting to raise taxes on the oil companies and the small business Owners:

    Interesting is that no one will answer a simple question

    Will raising taes on oil companies – lead to higher prices?

    I think its just a simple question!

    You can describe a fantasy filled array of claims about me or you can just answer a simple yes or no question.

    EricPWJohnson (c5f1fc) — 9/13/2011 @ 6:31 pm

  163. Hannity’s focus group gave Perry the win, it was unanimous

    EricPWJohnson (c5f1fc) — 9/13/2011 @ 6:32 pm

  164. There is never any “we”, outside of yur pointy head.

    JD (318f81) — 9/13/2011 @ 6:35 pm

  165. Again, who are all of these supporters on this blog, dude? Stashiu3? DRJ?

    EPWJ: I have one word for you. Paxil.

    Simon Jester (d11330) — 9/13/2011 @ 6:38 pm

  166. Seroquel. Lithium.

    JD (318f81) — 9/13/2011 @ 6:39 pm

  167. Simon,

    Yes or no?

    EricPWJohnson (c5f1fc) — 9/13/2011 @ 6:44 pm

  168. Epwj – when did you quit molesting goats?

    JD (318f81) — 9/13/2011 @ 6:52 pm

  169. EPWJ,

    There is a reason nobody is answering your question… and it’s not because anyone thinks you’re right. Everybody has seen you lay this type of bait before, then mischaracterize the answer with some obnoxious extrapolation that is unwarranted.

    Why don’t you answer the question about who these folks that agree with you are? Can it be because it rarely happens, and then only on singularly narrow points? Yes it can.

    Stashiu3 (601b7d) — 9/13/2011 @ 7:25 pm

  170. True, to an extent. But how does one get government “out of the way”? What steps need to be taken? What will be proposed? What is the amount of time required to accomplish that plan?

    etc.,… etc.,… etc.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 9/13/2011 @ 5:40 pm

    100% fair question. It’s not nearly as simple as just saying ‘get out of the way’.

    In fact, it takes a lot of skill not only to govern with less power, but also to reform surgically.

    Repealing Obamacare, as both Romney and Perry propose, is going to go a long way towards changing the dynamic enough to jump start hiring, at least in my opinion.

    Also, it does appear global warming regulation effects are having a big impact, at least on Texas. All sorts of energy production hurdles need to be lifted. Both Romney and Perry probably are very similar in view here.

    But really, I think the answer is so much harder to distill into a checklist. You can’t just say ‘this is how I get government out of it’. Government has become its own lifeform, growing constantly in every possible direction, sucking up prosperity for future generations.

    What we need isn’t a slick sales pitch so much as someone who really is willing to cut everything. Someone with the brass tacks to cut education spending, and even some military spending. Make every single remaining agency learn to do their jobs with less money, year after year, until the primary job of the senior agency heads is thrift for thrift’s sake.

    That’s just not exciting campaign talk. It’s no match for Bachmann’s ‘they just aren’t COMMITTTEEEED to repealing Obamacare!’

    Of course, I betray my own argument because what I’m talking about is going to require the House to do its job sanely. Most House members love the big rhetoric that pushes aside the idea of everyone cutting everything. This helps them get away with cheating a little bit.

    That’s why Perry does indeed have the ultimate hope of passing a balanced budget amendment. I realize that creates its own mess, and surely will be defrauded in various ways. It’s a big improvement for a process that is already broken enough to be an existential crisis.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/13/2011 @ 7:34 pm

  171. Well, there’s a reason I’m not answering EPWJ’s question, whatever it is.

    Milhouse (ea66e3) — 9/13/2011 @ 7:38 pm

  172. Raising taxes – will they raise prices?

    Comment by EricPWJohnson — 9/13/2011 @ 6:26 pm

    Can’t answer with such little information.

    Usually yes. Sometimes no.

    For example, if there are three lemonade stands selling lemonade for a dollar a cup, and costing nothing for lemons and sugar and water because mommy bought it, and suddenly the mommy from alaska requires her kid to actually pay ten cents per cup to cover the fair value of the sugar and lemons, Alaskan child will still charge a dollar like the two other kids. The price was set by market forces, and all kids are making a good profit.

    Sometimes, they can eat that profit.

    This raises a huge problem with your description of taxes. It’s not so much a tax as a price for property of the Alaskan people that the oil companies were getting for less than they were worth.

    It’s probably true that if Alaska decided to pay oil companies just to get the oil out of Alaska, instead of charging them, that would help the oil companies a whole lot. But so what?

    We want SUSTAINABLE energy. That means everyone needs to benefit from the deal. Corruption interferes with sustainability.

    I have to say, this is a sad direction to take every damn thread. People should want to talk about relevant matters.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/13/2011 @ 7:39 pm

  173. There’s a difference between a sliding scale on royalties, and pulling the subsidies for oil companies, is he really that dense,

    ian cormac (ed5f69) — 9/13/2011 @ 7:41 pm

  174. EricPW – Will raising taxes on U.S. manufacturers of televisions raise prices of televisions to U.S. consumers?

    Yes or no?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/13/2011 @ 7:43 pm

  175. Dear Stashiu3: I didn’t mean to involve you in EPWJ train-wreck of a personal style. But I was subtly reminding readers that the guy has been a jerk toward two of the most respected people on this blog.

    I’m still not sure if he is mental, or this is intricate performance art. Either way, it’s tiresome.

    I guess I will go to the Four Seasons and get my hair cut.

    Simon Jester (171f94) — 9/13/2011 @ 7:50 pm

  176. “I guess I will go to the Four Seasons and get my hair cut.”

    Simon – I’m heading out to an investment seminar near my lake house shortly.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/13/2011 @ 7:54 pm

  177. I am busy packing for a possible trip to Jakarta in December, while counting jooooooooooooos.

    JD (318f81) — 9/13/2011 @ 7:57 pm

  178. Simon, I don’t think he’s mental, and I don’t think he’s faking it. I think Eric is genuinely extremely stubborn and hopes to actually win this argument. Despite it going on for what feels like a decade.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/13/2011 @ 8:05 pm

  179. Dustin – If he expects to win this argument, that train left the station more than a year ago when he first raised it, which I think definitely moves him into the mental category since his argument has not seen any improvement.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/13/2011 @ 8:08 pm

  180. Dustin, you are being very charitable. Historically, this guy has hauled out a large number of very bizarre arguments.

    It’s when he claims all kinds of support from other people here that I finally throw up my hands and think he is medicated. It’s like I want to someone, someway convince Sarah Palin to send him a letter saying “I am now raising your specific taxes personally” just to watch his head explode.

    But all the weird stories read like a less literate DCSCA: Commander McBragg without spell check.

    Whatever. I have seen him be pleasant, but it quickly devolves into bizarre rancor. If you are correct in your evaluation, it might be that his ego is completely tied up in whatever he is writing. Never a pleasant prospect.

    Simon Jester (171f94) — 9/13/2011 @ 8:10 pm

  181. Daley, I seem to remember that DCSCA also has a lake house. Or am I wrong about that?

    What if they are related???

    Simon Jester (171f94) — 9/13/2011 @ 8:11 pm

  182. Dustin, you are being very charitable. Historically, this guy has hauled out a large number of very bizarre arguments.

    Yeah, he used to quote me to prove how I’m a concern troll trying to undermine Rick Perry.

    I think he just gets real damn stubborn about his arguments, and can’t let it go. It’s easier to do that when you assume the worst of the folks you’re disagreeing with.

    I mean, Daley and JD are not exactly Palin’s die hard fanboys. They just noticed, along with … a lot of people, that EPWJ was overstating the situation with Palin and this oppression of BP.

    I actually think EPWJ’s heart is in the right place for the most part, when he’s not being too combative.

    It’s just the internet anyway, so I admit I don’t really care too much about the fighting and the name calling, except that I’d prefer to have a conversation about more recent stuff instead now.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/13/2011 @ 8:13 pm

  183. Yeah, he used to quote me to prove how I’m a concern troll trying to undermine Rick Perry.

    And I’m being really charitable here.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/13/2011 @ 8:13 pm

  184. that train left the station more than a year ago when he first raised it, which I think definitely moves him into the mental category

    I used to get very bent out of shape by the guy. I understand why you’d think he’s gotta be malfunctioning to continue wanting to talk about this. And he does seem to think this issue justifies a whole lot of drama.

    He’s not Gardasil retarded, though.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/13/2011 @ 8:15 pm

  185. “Daley, I seem to remember that DCSCA also has a lake house. Or am I wrong about that?

    What if they are related???”

    Simon – I can visualize them both sniffing Limbaugh’s butt now that you mention it.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/13/2011 @ 8:26 pm

  186. I have read all the posts here and have something to say:
    last night, I lost all respect for Michelle Bachmann as she attacked Perry in order to try to stay relevant. She is tanking in the polls, and has been since Perry entered. But she is also a hypocrite since her own state mandated that students must be vaccinated against Hepititus B, also a disease that can be transmitted sexually. How is that any different than mandating Gardasil? Honest answer, it’s not.

    But Bachmann didn’t stop there and doubled down. She repeated the story that she had talked to a woman after the debate who claims her daughter has suffered brain damage from Gardasil. Yet, in none the research, has this proven to be a side affect of the drug. Every drug has some side affects, many people are allergic to common aspirin, but to repeat unsubstantiated claims is more DNC that GOP. Today, on the Hannity radio show, Bachmann admitted she did not vet the story. So she was basically just throwing it against the wall to see if it would stick. And what have other states done regarding Gardasil? Well, if you are really interested, the National Conference of State Legilatures had an article in September, 2011 on the activities of almost every state on Gardasil, requiring/funding the vaccination or the effort to educate the public, and parents about it.

    Now to Palin: I have been a fan, but am no longer. I traveled over 1,000 miles to listen to her speak last year, but she has done some things lately that seems out of line. She repeated Bachmann’s claims of “crony capitalism” against Perry on Greta’s show last night, mentioning that Perry had a FORMER aide that became a lobbyist for Merck. This is not an avenue Palin wants to go down, because you could legitimately say that because of Palin, there is now a former lobbyist in the Governor’s office in Alaska.

    Sean Parnell was a lobbyist for one of the biggest lobbying firm in the U.S. who represented the oil companies in Alaska. He was working as a lobbyist when Palin hand picked him to be her running mate for Governor/Lt. Governor. The entire time Parnell was running for Lt. Governor, he still worked for the lobbying firm, and as a lobbyist, donated money to Palin’s campaign. He did not resign his lobbyist position until the day before he was sworn in as Lt. Governor. Now he sits in the Governor’s office because Palin quit. The argument can be made; which is worse, taking money from a lobbyist you have chosen as your running mate, or taking a $5,000 donation from Merck AFTER the Gardasil issue was already dead in Texas? The total amount of money that Perry has gotten in campaign contributions from Merck is $28,000 in the last 15 years. Hardly enough to buy any favors.

    I hope that everyone is smart enough to see what is happening here. Perry was thought to be “too” conservative by the left when he was just talking about getting in the race. Now he is being attacked by both the left, and the establishment Karl Rove GOPers who understand that Perry doesn’t play by their games. He is not an “insider”, not in Texas and he certainly poses a threat to those live Rove, Fred Barnes, et al, who are all “insiders.” It’s not that Perry doesn’t get along with Bush, Jr., it’s that Perry doesn’t get along with Rove. And in my book, that’s a plus in Perry’s column.

    So the goal is to diminish Perry’s popularity, which will put Romney, a player, into the front runner position again. If you want more “compassionate conservatism” (i.e. big spenders) you will get it with Romney. And let’s not forget, Romney is trying to divert attention from Romneycare, and the fact that it would have cratered Massachussets had it not been for a $764 million infusing of cash into it from Obama’s Stimulus Bill.

    retire05 (674325) — 9/13/2011 @ 8:52 pm

  187. Well argued, Retire.

    I still like Palin, but hopefully this isn’t going to be a trend. Because you’re right that if it’s not Perry, it’s probably Romney, and that’s something Perry, Palin, and Bachmann fans should all agree is not the ideal outcome.

    The contest is for the best nominee. We do not get a pure one, and the HPV issue is minor compared to government spending.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/13/2011 @ 9:04 pm

  188. The stupid Republican voters (After the South Carolina primary, when asked GOP voters said “I didn’t know McCain was for amnesty”) continually nominate the worst candidate possible on The National Question. They’ll fall all over themselves to vote for Perry and then say, “I didn’t know Perry was for open borders and money for illegals.”

    DN (7fc565) — 9/13/2011 @ 9:07 pm

  189. Retire05, I agree re Bachmann; any chance that I would support her is now gone. But I don’t see your point about Palin.

    You make a big deal about Sean Parnell having been a lobbyist, as if that were a bad thing, as if it were a disreputable occupation, like being a BATF agent or a leg-breaker for the mafia. But lobbying is an activity specifically protected by the first amendment. It’s as reputable as journalism, which Palin herself used to engage in, or litigation. The question about Perry is whether he made his decision at the request of his former aide, in order to enrich that former aide’s boss, with the understanding that some of the profit would trickle down to the former aide and to Perry himself. It’s possible; I can’t positively rule it out. But I don’t think it’s called for, since Perry has shown no pattern of such behaviour, which this would fit. I think it far more likely that he decided this because he thought it was the right thing to do, and the fact that his former aide was working for Merck had nothing to do with it.

    Milhouse (ea66e3) — 9/13/2011 @ 9:08 pm

  190. You make a big deal about Sean Parnell having been a lobbyist, as if that were a bad thing,

    Hold your horses.

    PALIN made a big deal out of the lobbyist thing. Retire is pointing out that this means Palin is extremely inconsistent.

    Perry had an aide leave his office and work for Merck. That means nothing.

    It’s possible; I can’t positively rule it out. But I don’t think it’s called for,

    Of course it isn’t called for. I can’t rule out a ton of the accusations about Palin (because they were BS).

    Palin carries a lot of weight. But when someone doesn’t live by the rules they set up, they lose credibility. retire’s reaction is natural.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/13/2011 @ 9:14 pm

  191. Hold your horses. PALIN made a big deal out of the lobbyist thing.

    What “lobbyist thing”? She didn’t make any deal at all about him being a lobbyist. There’s nothing disreputable about that. She made a big deal about the former aide, presumably with access to Perry, being a lobbyist for the specific company that benefited greatly by his decision. There’s at least a plausible narrative that can be told about why that’s a problem.

    When we notice similar things about 0bama administration decisions, we point them out and call it corrupt, even if we can’t prove it. So it’s not completely unreasonable to ask why we don’t do the same to people on our side, such as Perry. I think there’s a huge difference between the two, because many of the 0bama decisions don’t seem to have other explanations, and because there are so many of them that there’s a pattern, which is not the case with Perry. But Palin still wasn’t being completely unreasonable, as Bachmann was.

    Milhouse (ea66e3) — 9/13/2011 @ 9:24 pm

  192. What “lobbyist thing”? She didn’t make any deal at all about him being a lobbyist.

    I was about to say that

    She made a big deal about the former aide, presumably with access to Perry, being a lobbyist

    But hey, thanks.

    So it’s not completely unreasonable to ask why we don’t do the same to people on our side, such as Perry.

    Sure.

    Sorta.

    Since we can’t really do the same in different situations. If Palin wishes to continue being a credible pundit, it behooves her to be more clear about this distinction (Which is basically whether there’s sufficient evidence to actually raise an issue).

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/13/2011 @ 9:36 pm

  193. Dustin, talk about dishonest editing. You left out the key clause. She made a big deal about the former aide, presumably with access to Perry, being a lobbyist for the specific company that benefited greatly by his decision. That is the issue, not the mere fact of his being a lobbyist. If he’d been a lobbyist for anyone else, she wouldn’t have brought it up, because there’d be nothing to bring up. That makes it very very very different from Retire05’s complaint that Parnell was a lobbyist!

    Milhouse (ea66e3) — 9/13/2011 @ 9:45 pm

  194. NPR: “Perry attacked” “Perry takes pounding, blah blah.”

    As soon as the media starts to talk about how someone is in “trouble” politically, start betting on that person to be a player.

    Note too how any talk about Obama’s plunging numbers includes the caveat about how he “inherited” a bad economy.

    Californio (8e2445) — 9/14/2011 @ 12:12 am

  195. I got as far as happyfeet’s “slag” comment and had to post. Really HF? You hate with that much bile? Must really suck to be you!

    Amy Shulkusky (bb66b1) — 9/14/2011 @ 5:21 am

  196. OT, Tommy Christopher has stuck up for Krugman,

    ian cormac (ed5f69) — 9/14/2011 @ 5:35 am

  197. Milhouse

    Retire05 is a very respected commentator – I have been reading and enjoying his comments for almost a decade.

    His point about Palin (which I disagree with I dont think Palin has one ounce of corruption in her system, despite our vast VAST differences – Palin is NOT corrupt) who could be accused of being a lobbiest supporter goes to show the extent and depth of business in America

    The very fact that everyone is involved in business means that business is involved in every aspect of the political system – as – it – should – be.

    Only the “communist” democrats think otherwise

    EricPWJohnson (2a58f7) — 9/14/2011 @ 5:49 am

  198. you don’t have to viscerally hate someone to dismiss them as a no-account opportunistic slag

    gosh that describes well over half of all American politicians

    happyfeet (3c92a1) — 9/14/2011 @ 5:56 am

  199. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2776443/posts

    ian cormac (ed5f69) — 9/14/2011 @ 6:05 am

  200. EricPWJ-Palin is not corrupt

    What did you just say?

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/14/2011 @ 6:12 am

  201. And let’s not forget, Romney is trying to divert attention from Romneycare, and the fact that it would have cratered Massachussets had it not been for a $764 million infusing of cash into it from Obama’s Stimulus Bill.

    How much did Texas receive? Over $10B… talk about cratering! Get your facts straight.

    I hate to have to go here for this, but “the Center for American Progress shaded the 50 states in three shades of blue to show those getting below 3.5% of their gross state product (GSP), those receiving 3.5% to 4.5%, and states obtaining more than 4.5%. For this chunk of the stimulus, all states end up receiving somewhere between 2.62% to 5.77% of their GSP. Projected to get the highest tier of funding–above 4.5%–are Southern states (Arkansas, Alabama, Kentucky, Mississippi, South Carolina and West Virginia), some in the Midwest (Indiana, Michigan and North Dakota), New England states (Maine, Rhode Island and Vermont) and a few in the West (Montana and Idaho).”

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d) — 9/14/2011 @ 6:15 am

  202. http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2009/02/compromise_map.html

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d) — 9/14/2011 @ 6:16 am

  203. And we trust Daddy Soros’s watering hole, why exactly?

    ian cormac (ed5f69) — 9/14/2011 @ 6:22 am

  204. you take the good you take the bad you take them both and there you have … the fantastically wonderful state of Texas! The good are include that Texas creates many jobs and opportunities and keeps the fire of hope alive – a vast and nurturing cradle for the American Dream is what it is.

    The bad part is it arouses envy and scorn in the bitter dregs of the rest of America.

    happyfeet (3c92a1) — 9/14/2011 @ 6:25 am

  205. Doh

    well i was hoping to bury the comment where u couldnt see it 🙂

    oh people here and there are now, just now starting to vette her based on her accusations of corruption that she threw out this week

    EricPWJohnson (2a58f7) — 9/14/2011 @ 6:25 am

  206. Nailed it Happy – the 4 aces comment by Romney, when Texas has millions of blacks and hispanics yet jobs are there for them.

    EricPWJohnson (2a58f7) — 9/14/2011 @ 6:28 am

  207. Find a more acceptable link, Ian. Something that breaks it down state by state. I’m all for it.

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d) — 9/14/2011 @ 6:53 am

  208. There is corruption in both partys.

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/14/2011 @ 6:56 am

  209. We know the stimulus was about supporting big city
    machines, in Obama voter strongholds,

    ian cormac (ed5f69) — 9/14/2011 @ 7:04 am

  210. Patterico has always been a difficult blog for democrats-DWS

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/14/2011 @ 7:14 am

  211. You see what I have to put up with.

    ian cormac (ed5f69) — 9/14/2011 @ 7:18 am

  212. Huh?

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/14/2011 @ 7:29 am

  213. She’s my rep.

    ian cormac (ed5f69) — 9/14/2011 @ 7:31 am

  214. And let’s not forget, Romney is trying to divert attention from Romneycare, and the fact that it would have cratered Massachussets had it not been for a $764 million infusing of cash into it from Obama’s Stimulus Bill.
     – retire05

    We know the stimulus was about supporting big citymachines, in Obama voter strongholds,

    There was a contention that the Mass. healthcare plan had put the state in the crater… that was the contention

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d) — 9/14/2011 @ 7:32 am

  215. contention context

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d) — 9/14/2011 @ 7:33 am

  216. Oh i’m sorry.

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/14/2011 @ 7:37 am

  217. Anne Coulter supports a gun grabbing pro-sharia moron.

    Sorry she lost me forever after that.

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/14/2011 @ 7:41 am

  218. Martha Gellhorn is a communist idiot.

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/14/2011 @ 7:46 am

  219. She made a big deal about the former aide,

    So there’s nothing dishonest about my ‘editing’, Milhouse.

    Palin raised the issue. It’s a serious charge, and she doesn’t have anything to back it up with. And you like Palin a lot so you don’t want to hold her accountable the way she holds Perry accountable.

    Once again you have come up with some semantic excuse for this. Some way this apple is a little different from that one, even though in the general sense of things, they are both apples.

    Because I actually am honest, I am forced to admit someone I admire, Palin, goofed up. I’m still hopeful she’ll recover from this, but it is more than just a passing eye roll thing. It’s a serious charge, and it’s entirely baseless.

    Only kooks use that level of evidence to establish that kind of charge. Palin personally profited in donations from selecting a lobbyist to be her running mate. I just don’t care to lay out carefully some boneheaded conspiracy theory about Palin. In other words, I am too good to apply Palin’s own standards against Palin.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/14/2011 @ 7:54 am

  220. Palin did that as mayor.

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/14/2011 @ 7:56 am

  221. Palin was a great governor and mayor, in my opinion, and simply goofed as a pundit because she was trying to make a larger point that she wants to scrutinize Republicans instead of be a partisan hack as a pundit.

    That’s my view. But she did goof.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/14/2011 @ 7:58 am

  222. “Palin was a great governor and mayor, in my opinion, and simply goofed as a pundit because she was trying to make a larger point that she wants to scrutinize Republicans instead of be a partisan hack as a pundit.”

    Burn the witch!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/14/2011 @ 8:13 am

  223. 217. Laura this AM was flogging the post-debate polls that show Romney has clawed back some deserters.

    “Romney is gaining.”

    Coulter’s “Ryan, Christie and Romney show promise.” makes no sense. Ryan is out, Christie has fallen behind Urkel in NJ, and Romney continues as a Democrat, without the Reagan qualifier.

    Three choices:

    1. Airhead.
    2. Intransigent sarcasm.
    3. Fraud, member of a poseur class analogous to mainstream clergy.

    gary gulrud (790d43) — 9/14/2011 @ 8:15 am

  224. Dustin – I agree with Milhouse in this case. They are different situations. In Perry’s case there is a direct link to a lobbyist and a decision. In Palin’s case, I don’t think you find decisions you would characterize as favorable to the energy industry, plus there is no former employee. Palin was already attacking the energy industry when she was running for office. No sale here.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/14/2011 @ 8:16 am

  225. On entering the fray

    Beginning with Eisenhower, new entrants that go on to win the nomination and the election have generally waited until January.

    Reagan was an outlier, waiting only ’til November the year prior.

    The earliest deadline for entry of any 2012 primary is October 31.

    gary gulrud (790d43) — 9/14/2011 @ 8:20 am

  226. Daley – direct link? Really?

    JD (43e42e) — 9/14/2011 @ 8:25 am

  227. 226.

    http://washingtonindependent.com/111559/perry-understates-mercks-campaign-donations-around-hpv-vaccine-order

    gary gulrud (790d43) — 9/14/2011 @ 8:28 am

  228. Gasp. $30,000 in donations over the course of more than a decade.

    JD (43e42e) — 9/14/2011 @ 8:31 am

  229. Burn the witch!

    Comment by daleyrocks — 9/14/2011 @ 8:13 am

    Naw. Like I said, I am illustrating something I think is absurd.

    Palin was already attacking the energy industry when she was running for office. No sale here.

    Sure, if you look at the big picture, it’s quite clear that Palin getting some donations from a lobbyist whom she also put on her ticket, from the industry she will make a ton of decisions regarding, is not corruption.

    That’s my point. Don’t assume the case is closed just because a former aide, someone Perry has no control over, moves to a huge company, and Texas has to deal with large companies all the time.

    The concept of immunizing children this way was brought up all over the place. Merck lobbies a lot of leadership, and it’s no surprise they hired Toomey to do this in Texas. It’s no sign of corruption or anywhere near one.

    Furthermore, if someone is reforming the energy industry, and has close connections to a lobbyist in that industry, of course under the new Palin standard, that taints the whole process. You note that Palin was opposed to some energy industry before the affilation, and of course, she’s currently saying ‘drill baby drill’ a lot.

    This is unfair to Palin. It’s the thinnest level of conspiracy theory. That’s my point.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/14/2011 @ 8:31 am

  230. I misread Daleyrocks’s comment.

    Is it true that there’s a direct link between this lobbyist and this decision? I mean, a lot of entities made a similar decision, or strongly considered one, contemporaneously.

    Is it true that without this lobbyist there wouldn’t have been this decision?

    I guess what Daleyrocks is saying is that obviously this lobbyist did in fact encourage Perry to support vaccination. Is that all it takes to make someone a crony capitalist?

    Gary, I reject the idea that kind of donations made a dent in Perry’s decision making. A lot of companies support Perry’s ideology. We’re talking about a medical malpractice tort reform guy getting support from the medical industry.

    Or someone like me donating to Perry because I think he’s better on spending cuts than his competitors would be (and writing him to encourage him to continue).

    Is that really corruption?

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/14/2011 @ 8:37 am

  231. 228.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-14/perry-s-merck-donations-raise-questions-about-vaccine-mandate.html

    $315K to RGA while Perry was its head.

    gary gulrud (790d43) — 9/14/2011 @ 8:40 am

  232. 230. “I reject the idea that kind of donations made a dent in Perry’s decision making.”

    Mom thinks the world of me, though I’ve given her good reason for doubt.

    gary gulrud (790d43) — 9/14/2011 @ 8:42 am

  233. http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/08/the-money-behind-palin-1.html

    ian cormac (ed5f69) — 9/14/2011 @ 8:47 am

  234. “Is it true that there’s a direct link between this lobbyist and this decision?”

    Dustin – I guess there is a better way to describe it. The former employee works as a lobbyist for a drug maker who was a direct beneficiary of a decision by the governor. Can causality be proved without other evidence, no.

    “Furthermore, if someone is reforming the energy industry, and has close connections to a lobbyist in that industry, of course under the new Palin standard, that taints the whole process.”

    I see where you object now. Did Palin engineer her reforms behind closed door as the prior administration, no.

    Was her pipeline negotiation process conducted in secret, no.

    Did Perry implement his limited vaccination mandate by legislation or fiat?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/14/2011 @ 8:47 am

  235. Perry isn’t the Republican Governors Association.

    He got how much from that, Gary? $5000? $0?

    Of course a nationwide organization will get larger donations.

    Turns out Merck has been donating large sums to the RGA for a long time… long before Perry was running it. And your article throws in donations from Pfizer. That’s Merck’s primary competitor. Why would Pfizer donate to Perry to get Gardasil vaccinations as they develop their own vaccine for the same disease to enter the market later?

    Here’s what I’m seeing. Huge drug companies that have a huge stake in government regulation support conservatives if they have any sense. Someone claims there’s corruption and fails to show any, so they start listing out the donations as though they are bribes.

    Since the donations to Perry are VERY small, they are forced to list donations from Merck to large organizations like the RGA, and eve list LARGER donations from companies OTHER than Merck also NOT to Perry. Just because the numbers are really big, and some people are fools.

    What is interested here is that it really shows how tiny Merck’s contribution to Perry was. Compared to Merck’s other donations, compared to Merck’s competition, and compared, of course, to other donations to Perry, who raised thirty million for his last reelection and is known as a good fund raiser.

    We’re just throwing innuendo at the wall and seeing what sticks.

    Michelle Bachmann’s execrable comments aren’t the reason this is happening. Sarah Palin’s are. It’s great TV, and terrible politics.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/14/2011 @ 8:48 am

  236. Looks like we can forget primarying Brown in MA. Consumer Czar Warren is lusting for his blood( mostly EPO) and office.

    gary gulrud (790d43) — 9/14/2011 @ 8:50 am

  237. Did Perry implement his limited vaccination mandate by legislation or fiat?

    Comment by daleyrocks — 9/14/2011 @ 8:47 am

    Neither. It was never implemented. Because Texans didn’t want it. Perry heard that and changed course accordingly, just like a bribed corrupt crony always does.

    I see where you object now. Did Palin engineer her reforms behind closed door as the prior administration, no.

    As I said, the entire idea Palin was corrupt in favor of the energy industry is almost as absurd as the claim Perry was corrupt in favor of Merck. I say almost because while it’s incredibly common for someone working in a senior elected official’s staff to leave and cash in as a lobbyist, it’s not as common for a senior elected official to hand pick a lobbyist. At least in my limited experience.

    This was a cherry picked example specifically because I think it is absurd, btw. There have been so many unfair efforts to smear Palin as corrupt.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/14/2011 @ 8:53 am

  238. “That’s my point. Don’t assume the case is closed just because a former aide, someone Perry has no control over, moves to a huge company, and Texas has to deal with large companies all the time.”

    Dustin – I’m not assuming the case is closed, I should have worded it better. I just think the appearance is different with a former employee who no longer has an oath to serve the interests of the state.

    I have no idea why Palin chose Parnell, balance. From his actions since her resignation, it’s clear he did not agree with her policies regarding energy.

    Palin did allow Alaska to take federal money for HPV vaccinations.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/14/2011 @ 8:53 am

  239. 235. So why was Perry’s riposte “You’re saying I sold out for $5000?”

    Not exactly coming clean and putting this baby to bed.

    gary gulrud (790d43) — 9/14/2011 @ 8:55 am

  240. Looks like we can forget primarying Brown in MA. Consumer Czar Warren is lusting for his blood( mostly EPO) and office.

    Comment by gary gulrud — 9/14/2011 @ 8:50 am

    Yeah.

    I do love that the democrats will be pouring huge sums into winning an MA election. Whether they win or lose, that’s gotta sting.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/14/2011 @ 8:55 am

  241. “Neither. It was never implemented. Because Texans didn’t want it. Perry heard that and changed course accordingly, just like a bribed corrupt crony always does.”

    Dustin – Am I wrong that it was voted down in the legislature and that Perry had issued an executive order to implement it before withdrawing it?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/14/2011 @ 8:56 am

  242. So why was Perry’s riposte “You’re saying I sold out for $5000?”

    Not exactly coming clean and putting this baby to bed.

    Comment by gary gulrud — 9/14/2011 @ 8:55 am

    I was surprised he didn’t say $6000.

    But he didn’t think someone would seriously think a few thousand he got years after or years before this decision were the matter at hand.

    And I’m sure it wasn’t expected that donations to the national Republican governors association would be counted as evidence Perry is corrupt either.

    And anyway, Bachmann was all over the place with nasty accusations. Perry’s simple ‘this offends me’ summary was perfect. Let the riff raff smear him. They are exposing themselves, not Perry.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/14/2011 @ 8:58 am

  243. Dustin – Am I wrong that it was voted down in the legislature and that Perry had issued an executive order to implement it before withdrawing it?

    Comment by daleyrocks — 9/14/2011 @ 8:56 am

    You are wrong.

    The legislature had bills filed, but had not voted it down.

    It’s hard to keep the details straight specifically because there are so many wild accusations being thrown at Perry.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/14/2011 @ 9:00 am

  244. Really, Dustin, what planet have you been living on for the last three years.

    ian cormac (ed5f69) — 9/14/2011 @ 9:02 am

  245. And I strongly disagreed with the HPV vaccination order at the time.

    I was happy that Perry admitted error on this.

    I also never understood why it was a female only order. Perhaps some scientific aspect of the vaccine.

    I can appreciate those who wish to have some kind of wall between decision makers and anyone they have ever been friends with or received donations from. Sounds cool, if a little unrealistic. But if you’re going to hold Perry to that rule after the fact, you gotta hold everyone to it, and that’s where it becomes clear just how unfair this deal is.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/14/2011 @ 9:05 am

  246. Really, Dustin, what planet have you been living on for the last three years.

    Comment by ian cormac — 9/14/2011 @ 9:02 am

    What are you talking about?

    Are you saying the leg voted down Gardasil before the EO?

    Didn’t happen.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/14/2011 @ 9:05 am

  247. I wholeheartedly support the views of EPWJ.

    A.L.J. Quisling (3f66af) — 9/14/2011 @ 9:07 am

  248. Dustin – Perry needs a better way to address this and many of the other attacks that came up Monday night.

    Admitting he did not handle the situation as well as he would have liked is fine. I favor something along the lines of:

    My primary interest is in saving lives, especially from preventable diseases. At that point in the the CDC was recommending that girls between the ages of… and … be vaccinated against the the HPV virus, the leading cause of cervical cancer, which causes the death of 40,000 women in this country every year. The only approved FDA approved vaccination at that point in time was made by Merck and was being administered in ….. states around the country. Some people have questioned my decision to proceed with a vaccination involving this virus because a former employee of mine works as a lobbyist for Merck. Those people do not understand all of the facts…….

    daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/14/2011 @ 9:09 am

  249. “The legislature had bills filed, but had not voted it down.”

    Dustin – Thank you for the correction.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/14/2011 @ 9:12 am

  250. That you thought the Washington Post wouldn’t go there?

    ian cormac (ed5f69) — 9/14/2011 @ 9:13 am

  251. That you thought the Washington Post wouldn’t go there?

    Comment by ian cormac — 9/14/2011 @ 9:13 am

    Oh.

    Well of course this is predictable. I mean, Palin is exhibit A on what threats to the left can expect in the media.

    Daleyrocks is 100% right in #248. I can whine about Bachmann and Palin all damn day, but Perry is running for president and needs to personally clarify this matter. It’s one thing that he’s convinced someone like me, who is biased in his favor, and another entirely that he resolves this for intellectually honest conservatives who just can’t sort through it all.

    I was pleased when he glanced over and noted something Bachmann said offended his honor. Apparently that’s not enough, though. 🙂

    Dustin – Thank you for the correction.

    Comment by daleyrocks — 9/14/2011 @ 9:12 am

    He still was very misguided to use the EO that way. He wouldn’t have if he thought the leg was going to pass the measure (I assume). So your argument still holds water.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/14/2011 @ 9:26 am

  252. Laura again this AM:

    ‘”I’m feeling like a pinata.” Well, get used to it as long as you’re the frontrunner. Romney was the pinata until you jumped in.’

    The last sentence is BS, of course, he’s gotten the Obama “Anointed One” treatment.

    But the attacks, HPV, SS, and Immigration, will continue until they’re met.

    Then the real work of actual vision and detailed proposals(MSM moderators undercutting) must begin.

    Perry mooted a national discussion on SS. Ryan today tosses Tax Reform on the table, already part of Cain and Bachmann’s mantras.

    “Many are the reasons not to believe…”

    gary gulrud (790d43) — 9/14/2011 @ 9:27 am

  253. Perry mooted a national discussion on SS. Ryan today tosses Tax Reform on the table, already part of Cain and Bachmann’s mantras.

    I hope you’re mistaken there. It’s true that Perry isn’t talking about abolishing SS, but I think that’s just realism. I hope Perry has the backbone to support Ryan’s ideas. I guess it’s bad politics, but it’s also a good way to establish a mandate. We’ve got to cut these entitlements. That’s not how they will explain it on TV, but it’s the only way.

    Anyway, Bachmann’s real mantra is simply to get attention. She is everything people pretended Sarah Palin was. She is unserious and doesn’t understand even federalism.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/14/2011 @ 9:33 am

  254. I have to wonder how some people manage to connect the dots. Having a former staff member who goes to work for a lobbying firm, that represents the only company who makes the Gardasil vaccine is bad. But having a running mate who was actively acting as a lobbyist during the entire campaign was OK. Someone needs to explain that kind of logic to me.

    Now, I never said Palin was corrupt because she chose Parnell, a lobbyist, as her running mate. But she was the one who threw the “crony capitalism” link to a lobbyist innuendo out on Greta’s show toward Perry with NO proof that there was even any dialog, much less a connection, between Perry and the FORMER aide. The difference between the two lobbyists is that one is still a lobbyist, the other in now Governor of Alaska. You don’t throw rocks when you live in a glass house because those very rocks are going to come back attcha. Can we assume that Parnell is sympathetic to the oil companies since he not only lobbied for them, but also represented Exxon during the Exxon-Valdez oil spill case?

    Palin made a mistake jumping into the fray and basically supporting Bachmann’s claims without vetting the facts. If she wants to maintain her reputation as a “truth teller”, she needs to simply say she is not willing to comment on an issue before she is in possession of ALL the facts.

    As to the Merck donations to Perry: Merck contributed a total of $28,000.00 to Perry’s campaigns since 1996. Breaking that down, that comes to a grand total of $1,867/year. Merck gave $5,000 to the Perry campaign (part of the $28,000) in 2010 AFTER the Gardasil issue was dead. It is chump change compared to what Merck has contributed to the RGA to help elect Republican governors all across the nation, and when you raise $30 million, as Perry did in the last election, is hardly worth a footnote.

    The facts of the issue that you cannot dismiss is that in Bachmann’s own state, the Hepititus B vaccination is required, which can also be transmitted sexually. And that Palin, unlike Perry who placed the burden of covering the vaccine on the backs of the insurance companies by making it mandatory, with an easy opt-out, allowed taxpayers all across the nation to pick up the tab for the shots in her state. Perry did not place the burden on the tax payer, Palin did.

    It has also been brought to attention that in Alaska, the opt-out requirement was harder than in Texas. In Texas, you could simply pick up the form at your local public school (provided by the Health and Human Services Department), sign it saying you were opting out. In Alaska, you had to get permission to opt-out from your family physician.

    Had Palin thrown her hat in the ring, giving her the legitimate right to criticize other candidates, I probably would have been squarely in her camp. But she didn’t and she has been yanking people around with her “maybe I will, maybe I won’t” mantra for the last two months. In or out, it doesn’t matter to me, but damn it, make up your mind.

    What triggered by doubts was the night before the Iowa straw vote when Palin told Hannity she was trying to decide how her running would affect her family. WTF? She has been running for the last three years and if she doesn’t know how it will affect her family by now, she never will know.

    I didn’t like all the mud slinging against Palin, and it made my head hurt to see how the press dragged her, and her family, through the mire. But it doesn’t serve her well to do the same thing to another candidate.

    retire05 (674325) — 9/14/2011 @ 9:33 am

  255. What planet does Dustin line on?
    Texas!
    It is in a galaxy far, far away.

    Also, let us not forget in this little dust-up over Gardasil, that the TX legislature is an extreme, part-time one, meeting (by law) only 140-days each 2-year period.
    I’ve heard that reformers want to correct that mistake in the TX Constitution, by changing it to 2-days every 140-years….
    Sounds good to a lot of people.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (3f66af) — 9/14/2011 @ 9:33 am

  256. Comment by retire05 — 9/14/2011 @ 9:33 am

    It is SOP in AK to transfer as much of the cost as possibe for state programs to the feds, since the Federal Govt has title to about 80% of the land in AK, and pays exactly $0000.00 in property taxes each and every year.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (3f66af) — 9/14/2011 @ 9:38 am

  257. @255….”live” v. “line”
    though I would think being in TX, you do an occasional Line-Dance.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (3f66af) — 9/14/2011 @ 9:39 am

  258. OK, let’s be clear about the EO; Perry issued the EO mandating Gardasil. The legislature in Texas opposed the decision, as did Texans. The Texas legislature wrote bills that would void the EO, but before they were passed, Perry issued his own EO voiding out the mandate. The legislation passed to avoid any further possibility of future mandates, although the Governor had already reversed his first EO.

    One of the other problems I have with Palin injecting herself into the fray is that last week, when I checked the website C4P, there were six articles slamming Perry, and one slamming Bachmann. Are we to assume that Palin is unaware of what her supporters are doing?

    retire05 (674325) — 9/14/2011 @ 9:43 am

  259. the TX legislature is an extreme, part-time one, meeting (by law) only 140-days each 2-year period.
    I’ve heard that reformers want to correct that mistake in the TX Constitution, by changing it to 2-days every 140-years….
    Sounds good to a lot of people.

    Comment by Another Drew – Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! — 9/14/2011 @

    Texas’s reconstruction government was built out of severe mistrust of government. There is no doubt that the people run the government, and not the other way around.

    Imagine how much less damage Obama could have done had he had to wait a couple years between new laws being passed.

    I also think this is one of the Aces in Texas’s hand, and I wish Romney had named it. Perry signed only six budgets, all balanced. That’s easier to negotiate and reform than twelve.

    A steadily growing government thrives with a steadily law passing legislature.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/14/2011 @ 9:43 am

  260. #256, if Alaska wants to let the Federal Goverment hold title to 80% of their land, that is there business. Texas has very little federal land, as Texas is big on private ownership.

    Also, having much of Alaska owned by the federal government makes Alaska a recipient state, whereas Texas is a donor state, meaning it pays more into the federal coffers than it gets back, unlike Alaska which gets more from the federal coffers than it pays in.

    retire05 (674325) — 9/14/2011 @ 9:47 am

  261. The legislation passed to avoid any further possibility of future mandates, although the Governor had already reversed his first EO.

    Yep.

    I believe Perry had undone his EO specifically hoping to avoid the legislature passing that law. Because with the way Texas’s leg works, it is a challenge to ever undo this.

    That’s Perry’s own fault, though, for using the EO that way. He went too far too fast, and he’s the first to admit that was a tactical mistake.

    Over the years, he’s been pretty good at handling the process in Texas. Not perfect. But he’s used to getting things done via the legislature.

    While Bush certainly didn’t end partisanship in DC, he also was prepared to massage the House and Senate, and was highly effective at getting legislation passed with his fingerprints on it. I think that’s partly due to his Texas experience.

    Perry also has absolutely no chance of not being loathed in DC, sadly.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/14/2011 @ 9:47 am

  262. though I would think being in TX, you do an occasional Line-Dance.

    Comment by Another Drew – Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! —

    I wake up and eat my chili and eggs while rehearsing my boot scoot boogie with the other cow hands.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/14/2011 @ 9:48 am

  263. retire05, AK, like most of the states west of the MS river, have no choice over title to Federal Lands. What was not privately owned, or transferred to the new state govt, at the time of statehood, remains federal land (and untaxable) unless the Feds sell or transfer it.
    You should familiarize yourself over the “land wars” that break out sporadically throughout the West over Federal micromanagement on planning and other issues that conflict with local control and wishes (see: Nye County v. Dept of Interior).
    TX was an independent republic before Statehood, and most of the land titles were in private hands before then. You will notice on the maps that there are not, in TX, great tracts of land labeled as “National Forest”s, as there are in CA, NV, AZ, NM, CO, ID, MT, WY, etc, etc.
    I doubt that there are as many BLM personnel in the whole of TX as there are in San Bernardino County in CA.

    The Professional (3f66af) — 9/14/2011 @ 10:00 am

  264. Also, why does that level of Federal land ownership make AK a “recipient” state?
    The Federal Government pays no Property Tax on any land it owns, anywhere within the United States of America!

    The Professional (3f66af) — 9/14/2011 @ 10:03 am

  265. Opps, goofed.
    The Professional, is moi – I was making an obscure point of humor in another post.
    This is one of the reasons I try to avoid the Friday Sockpuppet thingie.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks ! (3f66af) — 9/14/2011 @ 10:07 am

  266. Dustin, I hope you clean those boots before climbing into your corporate jet?

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks ! (3f66af) — 9/14/2011 @ 10:08 am

  267. http://www.ethics.state.tx.us/tedd/lobcon2002e.htm

    ian cormac (ed5f69) — 9/14/2011 @ 10:11 am

  268. That corporate jet was made in NEW YORK CITY?!?

    Get a rope.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/14/2011 @ 10:13 am

  269. THAT was one of the great commercials.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks ! (3f66af) — 9/14/2011 @ 10:24 am

  270. Perry says he opposes SB1070 but yet he says he will seal the borders………………….not making sense.

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/14/2011 @ 10:32 am

  271. Perry on immigration is a much more productive line of criticism than his supposed crony corruption.

    I believe Perry both wants a secure border that is controlled, and wants to accommodate Mexicans in various ways that some will call amnesty (though Perry says he rejects Amnesty).

    It makes zero sense to me that Perry rejects E-Verify.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/14/2011 @ 10:45 am

  272. #263, when Texas rejoined the Union after the Civil War, the subject of federal lands was addressed then. Texas did not want vast expanses of its land subjected to federal ownership.

    Now, considering the fact that Alaska became a state long after that, Alaska should have addressed the issue of federal land ownership at the time they applied for statehood. Same with California, which was an independent republic, albeit for a very, VERY short time. It was short sighted for them not to do so. Utah has the same problem.

    Alaska is a recipient state because it gets back more from the federal coffers than it pays in, and that could possibly be due to the very reason you mention, the feds pay no taxes on the land there.

    retire05 (674325) — 9/14/2011 @ 10:46 am

  273. I don’t like putting the immigration burden on businesses – it’s quite frankly not their problem if their incompetent useless federal government can’t control the border. And if I had to refurbish my kitchen I would use the illegal guy what did my friend R’s.

    happyfeet (a55ba0) — 9/14/2011 @ 10:49 am

  274. Those were the terms that it was admitted to the Union, under, Stevens drafted the agreement, which
    the government has abrogated on many an occassion,
    with regards to resource extraction.

    ian cormac (ed5f69) — 9/14/2011 @ 10:49 am

  275. I don’t like putting the immigration burden on businesses – it’s quite frankly not their problem if their incompetent useless federal government can’t control the border.

    I appreciate you at least presenting an argument of this kind, as I really have a hard time understanding Perry on this issue.

    And if I had to refurbish my kitchen I would use the illegal guy what did my friend R’s.

    I understand. Many many moons ago I worked with an illegal immigrant who washed dishes and cleaned the kitchen to take care of her sweet little daughter. It’s impossible to know that kind of person and want to ruin their life.

    But big picture, I don’t think she would have been here if businesses had to use E-Verify. She would be in Mexico, and over time hopefully without the relief valve, these people could demand their government get its act together.

    The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/14/2011 @ 10:52 am

  276. Dustin, let me tell you how well E-Verify works:

    I have a friend who owns a company in Houston that does construction clean-up. His company goes in after subdivisions/commercial buildings are built and cleans up the trash that is left over by the construction companies (pieces of 2 x 4’s, pipes, electrical wire, etc). He pays pretty good (around $15/hr) but even then has trouble hiring people that will show up for work every day since the work is hard. He used E-Verify and it would take months from the Feds to respond back to him. If he found out an employee was not legit, he would tell them they were out of a job until they got it straighted out (of course, they all lie and say they’re legal, you know how that works). They would come back the next day with Social Security cards, probably purchased for a couple of hundred bucks at Trader’s Village, and it would take the Feds another 2-3 months to get back to him. The system, although getting better, has more holes than swiss cheese.

    Rick Perry understand that Hispanics now outnumber blacks in our nation. Also, many of the kids that some are harping on being the children of illegals who are getting in-state tuition are, by today’s standards, citizens as they were born here. Congressman Francisco Canseco is a prime example of a first generation Texan. He is now on the committee that is going after Holder on Fast and Furious.

    I understand people’s resentment toward illegals (as being personally affected, Google Angel Resendez/Weimer, Texas) but I also understand the truth of the issue. Illegal immigration was NEVER an issue as long as it affected only those border states and the people of the northeastern states were not affected. It was a fly-over state problem, going back as far as Ronald Reagan. But when illegals started killing people in New Jersey, all of a sudden it became an issue.

    I also understand the connection Texas has with Hispanics. Tejanos have always been part of our culture, even signing our Constitution in 1845. We have named our towns after Tejano heroes (Sequin, etc).

    retire05 (674325) — 9/14/2011 @ 11:00 am

  277. The system, although getting better, has more holes than swiss cheese.

    That’s a shame. I had a different impression, but I’m scratching my head as to where I got it. I’m sure you’re right.

    I also understand the connection Texas has with Hispanics. Tejanos have always been part of our culture, even signing our Constitution in 1845. We have named our towns after Tejano heroes (Sequin, etc).

    Indeed. I have no aversion to Hispanics or their culture. Not by any stretch. Ever Hispanic adult I ever met was concerned primarily with their children. They are the exact opposite of the major problem with our country, which is that we are stealing from the next generation.

    There are serious problems with poor folks coming here, and often having enough trouble that they are burdensome on society, but my beef is not with them. They are doing what I’d do in their shoes.

    I just note that the real problem here is Mexico itself. Any solution that continues Mexico having a relief valve is probably going in the wrong direction.

    Anyway, thanks for the comment.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/14/2011 @ 11:07 am

  278. Comment by retire05 — 9/14/2011 @ 10:46 am

    Land title was a settled issue when TX joined the Republic in 1845, and nothing changed in 1865 – just as there was no question of title in any of the states of the confederacy upon rejoining the Union, except in cases of land held by Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee, etc, which was confiscated as a penalty for the treason they committed in making war upon the Union.
    CA’s “republic” was a “false-flag” operation and everyone knew it at the time.
    CA was claimed by the US as a “spoil of war” following the Mexican-American War of 1845 (there’s that date again), and was – from that point until 1850 – a Territory of the United States. All lands in the hands of the Mexican Govt at the time of transfer became U.S.Government land, absent a registered Deed of Trust/Title on file in the local land office/seat of govt.
    Therefore, when CA joined the Union, all lands not in the hands of private individuals, or transferred to the new state government by the feds, remained as Federal Land – there was no option to this, as this is the way the expansionary lands (Manifest Destiny) were handled. The Federal Government would recognize valid land titles upon acquisition because to not do so would be just stirring a pot needlessly, and would spark a rebellion amongst a group of people who you wanted on your side.
    TX, for the most part was “settled”* land in 1845, CA was not – that is the difference.

    *my definition here is that someone held title to these lands, vast tracts of land which were needed to support sustainable herds of longhorns on marginal quality scrubland.
    In CA, the Ranchos (which were mostly Spanish Land Grants) were recognized by the new Territorial Government (though there were incidents of “carpet baggers” attempting to gain title through fraud), and the subsequent State Government. Most of the old Spanish Ranchos were along the Coast, lining “The King’s Road” (El Camino Real) that interconnected the system of Missions from San Diego to San Francisco Bay.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks ! (3f66af) — 9/14/2011 @ 11:09 am

  279. Seguin has the mostest biggest pecan in the whole

    it’s very humbling to gaze upon its majesty

    happyfeet (a55ba0) — 9/14/2011 @ 11:13 am

  280. whole *world* that’s supposed to be

    happyfeet (a55ba0) — 9/14/2011 @ 11:13 am

  281. Just to add another point to my reply to Retire05: Texas’s independence from Mexico was won largely by Hispanics and whites together. Hispanics died defending the Alamo, and kept it up to San Jacinto.

    Though the political differences between Texas and Mexico couldn’t be more stark. Those folks fleeing Mexico to come to Texas are understandable, but a lot of them don’t speak English and I think a lot of them get the short end of the stick when here. I would much rather they fix Mexico.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/14/2011 @ 11:21 am

  282. retire05, you might find this interesting….

    Top 10 States With The Highest Level of Federal Land Ownership

    Nevada 84.5%
    Alaska 69.1%
    Utah 57.4%
    Oregon 53.1%
    Idaho 50.2%
    Arizona 48.1%
    California 45.3%
    Wyoming 42.3%
    New Mexico 41.8%
    Colorado 36.6%

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks ! (3f66af) — 9/14/2011 @ 11:22 am

  283. Yo!

    Once the doctors weigh in on the terrible deaths women suffer from cervical cancer and the “honest” facts of the case come out then those who were thinking this was an overreach are going to be thinking that they were dupred by opportunist politicians

    If you followed the Gardisil controversy – page by page – day by day

    Some of you might come to a different conclusion about the mandate

    Most of the initial protests were was about the costs and the fact it couldnt be done in one visit causing parents to have to take precious time off to get the shots administered as most parents are a two income household and doctors dont have weekend or evening hours anymore.

    It was state senator Dan Patrick a born again 2nd Baptist friend of Tom Delay Radio Talk Show Host who on the floor of the state senate raised the emotional religious having sex issue.. the reason Dan did it was that Perry was quietly supported in both houses and in both Parties for protecting women from certain unavoidable death as the actual contraction of HPV by the male is still largely debateable.

    Dan Patricks top radio hosts at the time were Pat Grey (Glenn Becks best friend and now partner) and local restauranteur and Laura Ingraham guest host Edd Hendee – who is a personal friend of mine – Edd who is a formidable individual, shouted it to the mountain top – it was picked up by the Chronicle (who BTW Cant stand me, Edd and Pat ever since we fought those billion dollar stadium referendums under uncle Bob’s tenure as Houston Mayor) when the Chronicle has been on a 16 year tear to rid Texas of Perry ever since he sent the Democrat’s Rush Limbaugh to the ash heap of political losers.. John Sharp

    On this issue – I totally disagreed with Edd and Pat, Edd honestly believed it was an overreach and Edd hates Perry personally and publically and was I think one of the campaign managers for Kay and talked her into running against Perry. Dan did it purely for political profit – Dan wants to be governor so he shouted from the pulpit of righteous indignation – and only in Texas – would a cure for cancer be considered a sin – which scared every other governor from even mentioning to women that even if they are monogamous can even in a monogamous marriage contract the virus from the husbands – unless they have this immunizations as a developing woman.

    Oh well, lets kill women by denying them a cure for cancer for political gain.

    It really surprized me that momma grizzly wants cancer to eat her female cubs

    EricPWJohnson (4380b4) — 9/14/2011 @ 11:22 am

  284. …and, except for Alaska, Idaho, Wyoming, and Oregon, those states were involved in the settlement of the Mexican-American War of 1845.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks ! (3f66af) — 9/14/2011 @ 11:26 am

  285. It really surprized me that momma grizzly wants cancer to eat her female cubs

    Comment by EricPWJohnson — 9/14/2011 @ 11:22 am

    But she didn’t. Alaska actually cheered Gardasil in 2006.

    The legitimate side of this debate is whether the government should take a position on doing this good thing. Kinda like exercise or some social issue, most of us know what the right thing to do is, and don’t want the government bothering us anyway.

    You are certainly right that Rick Perry has been under tons of fire from both directions, GOP and democrat, for a very long time. I think he’s probably extremely well vetted.

    This HPV thing isn’t going away. It’s just too good a distraction from issues of far more importance. I think Perry should take Daleyrocks’s advice.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/14/2011 @ 11:31 am

  286. So to sum it up:

    This wasnt Bachmann’s and Santorum’s feverish explusions that young girls were subject to religious penetration of their sacred right to contract cancer

    This was about tired parents having to lose three days vacation to get these vaccines done

    And the Cost

    EricPWJohnson (4380b4) — 9/14/2011 @ 11:36 am

  287. But Eric, Perry needs Bachmann’s saner fans and Santorum’s fans.

    He understands where they are coming from. He has explained he goofed. With Bachmann, he probably should strike back hard or he looks like a pansy, but he should also do what he can to show he seeks the support of folks who don’t want the government to save them.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/14/2011 @ 11:42 am

  288. Dustin

    All Perry has to do is fund a NCCC commerical showing young girls holding the hands of their dying moms and asking why isnt it mandatory?

    Then there will be some empty podiums at the next debate and some ads for new political commentators for Fox News

    Palin, honestly, shouldnt have gone there when a strong willed leader like Perry takes a 100% risk on his career in a we are going to protect women from cancer stand. Perry knew he could lose everything and he didnt give a CRAP! And he still doesent, he would do it again, he believes in defeating cancer – the point that is lost.

    Sometimes, people just miss the whole point, Romney didnt, and Romney has my deepest respect for his support of Rick in this.

    Palin, I dont know why she did this – she was so fired up i think – watching the broadcast blurted it out and probably someday in her memoirs – will regret having done it

    EricPWJohnson (4380b4) — 9/14/2011 @ 11:43 am

  289. All Perry has to do is fund a NCCC commerical showing young girls holding the hands of their dying moms and asking why isnt it mandatory?

    I disagree. He probably already has the votes of folks who wish for the government to mandate HPV vaccine.

    He needs the votes of semi-libertarian conservatives.

    Appealing to emotion will not work.

    Frankly, he probably doesn’t even need to do anything about this. This is a minor issue compared to jobs and experience. But Perry should go ahead and handle this issue, because for one thing, it shows us he can handle the politics of disgraceful jerks. That’s a skill he needs.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/14/2011 @ 11:48 am

  290. Palin, honestly, shouldnt have gone there when a strong willed leader like Perry takes a 100% risk on his career in a we are going to protect women from cancer stand. Perry knew he could lose everything and he didnt give a CRAP!

    I love that about him. It’s surprising on at least three major issues that he’s willing to just be himself and stand his ground. That’s a good instinct.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/14/2011 @ 11:49 am

  291. Dustin

    I think Ricks going to get support from black females, and he’s going to have an avalanche of support from the hispanic community.

    Over 65 going to set records, they have been lied to and Rick is the first to call it out for action.

    Lastly – People want – have been wanting since Nixon/Reagan – Leadership and positively respond to it – thats why every general that made it to the national race – won. (I hope – it sounds good though 🙂 )

    EricPWJohnson (4380b4) — 9/14/2011 @ 11:50 am

  292. THat’s funny, seriously, you are facing a light breeze, and you think it’s a storm

    ian cormac (ed5f69) — 9/14/2011 @ 11:52 am

  293. Lastly – People want – have been wanting since Nixon/Reagan – Leadership and positively respond to it

    Yeah, that sounds good anyway. I think this is probably right. Politicians should not be weenies. Perry in particular got the loudest cheers when being forceful. He just needs to do it with skill.

    For example, punching down at Ron Paul is something to be enjoyed in moderation. Knocking down Bachmann for her hysteria about vaccines could be a big moment for Perry, or it could make him look like he’s itching to continue talking about HPV forever (when he really wants to talk about jobs).

    But Perry isn’t in those debates to win the nomination. I think he’s much more focused on the general. He won’t need to flip flop if his confidence turns out to be well founded.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/14/2011 @ 11:57 am

  294. Dustin,

    I’ve worked with the guy (not one on one but in larger groups) – he is exactly what he is, his demeanor doesnt change when he leaves the stage, he has this habit of just being a guy everyone likes and admires.

    He even wrote me a letter based upon something I tried to get done in Austin (heck I didnt know he was aware of it or even remembered me) also taking the time to write me when I had a zero point zero success rate there and again for the 43rd time was shot down (naturally because it made too much sense) and he just said never stop trying but next time dont call the education subcommitte a bunch of sum bitches.

    And its a shame because Palin has this Perry quality as well, but makes the occasional terrible political decisions but she tries to spin.

    EricPWJohnson (4380b4) — 9/14/2011 @ 12:00 pm

  295. Ian

    everything to Perry is a light breeze – like his answer on afghanistan – yes we should get out.

    It pretty obvious – and love him or hate him – his answer is what it is

    Dustin

    Perry’s not auditioning for speaker in chief, something the pundits are hand wringing about

    EricPWJohnson (4380b4) — 9/14/2011 @ 12:05 pm

  296. Perry’s not auditioning for speaker in chief, something the pundits are hand wringing about

    Right.

    But I don’t want to get too fawning for the guy. Romney has a lot of support, more than any of us could ever get, because he is a terrific communicator. And that is a great skill that everyone should envy. I place experience and walking the walk as more important, but I don’t want to dismiss Romney’s capabilities. He is in second place instead of in the second tier because being able to clearly get to the point, 99% of the time, is like God Mode for politicians.

    I usually am blindsided by the democrat attack machine, so I don’t know how either will do. Pretending such attacks won’t occur, Romney would crush Obama. I think Perry would also crush Obama, and more importantly, would be an effective president if he governs like he always has.

    We’ve got a much better group of candidates than I thought we would have. The two front runners are nice people with executive experience and similar agendas. Attempts to play the Huckabee role appear to be miserable failures this time.

    Meanwhile, Obama is huffing glue in the closet and depressed.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/14/2011 @ 12:13 pm

  297. Oh well, lets kill women by denying them a cure for cancer for political gain.

    A bit overstated, don’t you think? Gardisil isn’t a cure for cancer, it simply helps prevent some form of cancer. And it’s not being denied, just not being forced upon the public.

    Chuck Bartowski (4c6c0c) — 9/14/2011 @ 12:27 pm

  298. Don’t know if anyone mentioned it, but Paul Rahe at Richochet has weighed in on Michele Bachmann’s position re Gardisil …

    http://ricochet.com/main-feed/Michele-Bachmann-Unprincipled-Demagogue

    H/T- PowerLine

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks ! (3f66af) — 9/14/2011 @ 1:24 pm

  299. That’s the best summary of the issue I’ve seen yet, AD. Thanks for linking it. Everyone should read it.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/14/2011 @ 1:33 pm

  300. De Nada!

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks ! (3f66af) — 9/14/2011 @ 1:51 pm

  301. “Oh well, lets kill women by denying them a cure for cancer for political gain.”

    EricPW – Can you clarify please? What denying was going on here? Certainly any parent could get his or here child vaccinated without the requirement of a government mandate could they not?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/14/2011 @ 2:16 pm

  302. Where do pompous obese jackass leftys get off on telling us what to eat?

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/14/2011 @ 2:17 pm

  303. Daley

    Palin said that the vaccine was dangerous on Fox news when she knew it wasnt

    Either she lied or she was just wrong

    But she said it to cast a knowlingly false claim against Perry

    But you are a Palin apologist – I dont expect you to do anything but harass anyone who doesnt worship at her altar

    EricPWJohnson (4380b4) — 9/14/2011 @ 2:29 pm

  304. Is there any topic that epwj does not just lie about?

    JD (7c90f3) — 9/14/2011 @ 2:32 pm

  305. EPWJ and his ilk make me laugh when they complain about apologists especially since you call anyone who opposes Perry’s imperfect stance on Illegal Immigration hateful.

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/14/2011 @ 2:33 pm

  306. “Oh well, lets kill women by denying them a cure for cancer for political gain.”

    I don’t supposed epwj has bothered to show where anyone was denied a cure for cancer. Did anyone point out to him that this vaccine does not cure cancer?

    Palin said that the vaccine was dangerous on Fox news when she knew it wasnt

    Has epwj sourced this, or is it yet another asspull?

    JD (318f81) — 9/14/2011 @ 2:40 pm

  307. Aaron do you think Palin is a hateful pig for her criticisms of Perry?

    Just asking.

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/14/2011 @ 2:42 pm

  308. I thought Palin questioned Perry’s motives, rather than Gardasil’s safety or really any anti vaccine hysterics.

    I could be mistaken, but that was my impression. Palin and Bachmann are in entirely different categories of behavior here.

    Anyway, this isn’t exactly tent expanding.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/14/2011 @ 2:48 pm

  309. Palins motives are questioned every time.

    If she burps her motives are questioned.

    Btw some perrybots are calling Palin a hateful pig.+

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/14/2011 @ 2:50 pm

  310. Dustin – I highlighted 2 outright and objective lies the palinhater told in this thread. He should stick to counting joooooooooos.

    JD (318f81) — 9/14/2011 @ 2:50 pm

  311. Palin needs to get her own tent and then she can rant and rave like a loon til the cows come home and in our tent we can play board games and have chinese delivered

    happyfeet (a55ba0) — 9/14/2011 @ 2:55 pm

  312. You rant and rave like a loon all the time so why don’t you pit your thing away.

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/14/2011 @ 2:57 pm

  313. put*

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/14/2011 @ 2:58 pm

  314. JD, you think

    momma grizzly wants cancer to eat her female cubs

    Comment by EricPWJohnson — 9/14/2011 @ 11:22 am

    is a dishonest characterization?

    I honestly don’t get it. EPWJ clearly likes Perry. I figured that out at least a year ago. Why splinter his support? Perry needs Palin’s supporters. HPV is a minor issue. We don’t need to force folks to chose sides.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/14/2011 @ 3:00 pm

  315. do not

    happyfeet (a55ba0) — 9/14/2011 @ 3:00 pm

  316. Do too. As much as I hate the palinistas the ones who say they won’t vote for Palin because of her attack on Perry are POS.

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/14/2011 @ 3:03 pm

  317. if she can win the nominee that is.

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/14/2011 @ 3:05 pm

  318. and then Sarah announced she was running for the presidency and everyone said oh let’s vote for her so they did and she won the presidency yay and then she made all the spendings go away and America was respectable again the end

    happyfeet (a55ba0) — 9/14/2011 @ 3:11 pm

  319. lol

    happyfeet (a55ba0) — 9/14/2011 @ 3:11 pm

  320. momma grizzly wants cancer to eat her female cubs
    Comment by EricPWJohnson — 9/14/2011 @ 11:22 am

    is a dishonest characterization?

    I missed that little nugget of nozzlery, Dustin.

    JD (318f81) — 9/14/2011 @ 3:16 pm

  321. Dustin

    Palin supports wont vote for anyone but Palin, anyone who at this point are still in the sause for the woman have drunk to much to be detoxed in 13 months

    EricPWJohnson (4380b4) — 9/14/2011 @ 3:19 pm

  322. Its a process,

    For a sitting governor to be criticised by a quitting governor for making a tough decision and standing by it…

    Well, there you go

    EricPWJohnson (4380b4) — 9/14/2011 @ 3:21 pm

  323. I will vote for anyone who gets the gop nominee even though I would love for her to run so why don’t you go eff yourself.

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/14/2011 @ 3:21 pm

  324. sauce – pardon the usual misspellings

    EricPWJohnson (4380b4) — 9/14/2011 @ 3:21 pm

  325. Happyfeet I would vote for you over obama but then again I don’t suffer from hypoxia of the brain.

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/14/2011 @ 3:22 pm

  326. I would vote for anybody but Romney even sweet sarah sunshine

    happyfeet (a55ba0) — 9/14/2011 @ 3:26 pm

  327. Surrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrre.

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/14/2011 @ 3:27 pm

  328. try me … go nominate Sarah Palin

    you’ll see

    I can’t promise my vote will be the one that clinches the presidency for her

    but I’ll do my part

    happyfeet (a55ba0) — 9/14/2011 @ 3:28 pm

  329. Doh

    Palin wont run as a conservative – she feels she’s an enlightened moderate. You to process this – she thinks that Perry is too conservative and that business has to be carefully managed and watched.

    She grew up in a union household, married a union organizer slash union manager slash oil field worker and generally has moderate to mildly lefty views on everything.

    She is hugely strong on national defense, but also swings both ways on conservation and regulation so its almost impossible to predict where a President Palin would land.

    She has virtually no record to examine as her state is the size of a congressional district and her mayorial tenure was in a small community that is less than a standard elementary school attendance zone.

    Yet she managed to have spectular dust ups with mainly conservatives while leaving corrpution on the left – which was/is rampant in Alaska virtually alone

    If you want to live the fantasy that a Gov Palin – who no one here but me knew about before McCain picked the only more liberal Republican than himself – If you want to live this fantasy that she is going to be a Ronald Reagan – I would just remind you that there are 2 Ronald Reagans and yes Sarah is a good match for the second one

    With Perry, as president – people are going to say that Ronald Reagan was almost a Good Rick Perry

    EricPWJohnson (4380b4) — 9/14/2011 @ 3:30 pm

  330. I’m sure she’s on pin and needles about it, then again, it’s turtles all the way down from Moonbeam
    to Villaraigosa, in your neck of the woods.

    ian cormac (ed5f69) — 9/14/2011 @ 3:31 pm

  331. Palin supports wont vote for anyone but Palin, anyone who at this point are still in the sause for the woman have drunk to much to be detoxed in 13 months

    Comment by EricPWJohnson — 9/14/2011 @ 3:19 pm

    Dude, I love Palin, and I totally intend to vote for Pe5rry.

    Don’t assume the most obnoxious Palin fans out there define Palin support. MD in Philly and DRJ are Palin fans (I believe). We’re talking about very good and reasonable people. I’d say 90% of the Palin fans I’ve met at Tea Parties in Austin have been quite reasonable.

    Sure, there are those C4P folks playing Davinci Code with the images on Palin’s bus and salivating over purity fights, but that comes with the territory of personality cults. Palin does have one… I don’t really think it’s her fault so much as the fault of those who treated Palin (and her children) like the antichrist.

    I think Palin fans and Perry fans are already largely the same folks.

    By all means, defend Perry, but consider how it comes across when you defend Perry by talking about Palin in over the top demonization jokes. It kinda reminds me of those annoying Palin zealots.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/14/2011 @ 3:31 pm

  332. Also, I’m sure I’m not bearing amazing insight to y’all to point out that Obama fans playing concern troll LOVE to pretend to be Palin fans.

    Dustin (b2fb78) — 9/14/2011 @ 3:32 pm

  333. Epwj – aren’t you at all embarrassed by the lies you told in this thread. Attempting to distract from them will not makes your objective lies go away.

    JD (af7a3a) — 9/14/2011 @ 3:32 pm

  334. “…We’re talking about very good and reasonable people (Palin supporters) …”

    Whew, missed the cut again…people cheered…

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks ! (3f66af) — 9/14/2011 @ 3:39 pm

  335. BTW, when is Breitbart going to be frog-marched, epwj?

    ….crickets….crickets….more crickets…

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks ! (3f66af) — 9/14/2011 @ 3:41 pm

  336. http://yesbuthowever.com/solyndra-founder-received-millions-stock-loan-5001052/

    ian cormac (ed5f69) — 9/14/2011 @ 3:59 pm

  337. To follow up ian, how about the new DeptEnergy loan guarantees to Fisker and Tesla, one of which is going to use the money to build cars in…..
    Finland!

    BK proceedings to start in 10, 9, 8, 7, ….

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks ! (3f66af) — 9/14/2011 @ 4:05 pm

  338. “Oh well, lets kill women by denying them a cure for cancer for political gain.”

    I don’t supposed epwj has bothered to show where anyone was denied a cure for cancer. Did anyone point out to him that this vaccine does not cure cancer?

    Palin said that the vaccine was dangerous on Fox news when she knew it wasnt

    Has epwj sourced this, or is it yet another asspull?

    momma grizzly wants cancer to eat her female cubs
    Comment by EricPWJohnson

    You are not even cute or original. Just a bad hateful liar.

    JD (318f81) — 9/14/2011 @ 4:12 pm

  339. So will you refuse to vote for Palin as the nominee if she wins because of her attacks on perry EPWJ?

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/14/2011 @ 6:10 pm

  340. “Oh well, lets kill women by denying them a cure for cancer for political gain.”

    I don’t supposed epwj has bothered to show where anyone was denied a cure for cancer. Did anyone point out to him that this vaccine does not cure cancer?

    Palin said that the vaccine was dangerous on Fox news when she knew it wasnt

    Has epwj sourced this, or is it yet another asspull?

    momma grizzly wants cancer to eat her female cubs
    Comment by EricPWJohnson

    Your silence speaks volumes, epwj.

    JD (318f81) — 9/14/2011 @ 6:21 pm

  341. Like I said a lot of hurt egos have caused the perrytologists to refuse to vote for Palin if she wins the nom.

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/14/2011 @ 6:30 pm

  342. I will vote for her if she wins

    run run rudolph sarah save the christmas!

    happyfeet (3c92a1) — 9/14/2011 @ 6:31 pm

  343. DohBiden, if Palin were to take the nomination, I don’t know one person that would not vote for her, and that includes those in Perry’s corner. The object is to fire Obama, after all.

    But Palin is not moving like someone preparing to run. Campaigns are not created out of a vacuum. They take time, and they take major donors and bundlers that can build a huge campaign war chest. While Palin dithers, and plays the “maybe I will, maybe I won’t” game, Romney and Perry are snatching up the bundlers and heavy donors. Perry grabbed the biggest GOP bundler in South Caroline, Romney did the same in New Hampshire. She can’t win without them. She can’t build a campaign to go against Obama’s financial leviathan from supporters who are giving $10.

    Also, Palin is not experienced in all issues. If she is not meeting with experts in the fields that she is shy on, that is a mistake. And if she were meeting with these experts, I think it would leak out. Hell, the media follows her around to the point that there is a reporter with his head shoved up her tail end every day.

    retire05 (674325) — 9/14/2011 @ 7:54 pm

  344. Hmmmmmmmmmm I sure hope the Perry fans vote for her despite their disagreements and the reverse.

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/14/2011 @ 7:55 pm

  345. “She grew up in a union household, married a union organizer slash union manager slash oil field worker and generally has moderate to mildly lefty views on everything.”

    EPWJ – Cute when you do the guilt by association smears. Like saying Mitt Romney got everything in his life through his family connections with no proof on your part.

    How about Rick Perry’s Democrat past. Fer chrissakes, he ran Al Gore’s Texas campaign in 1988. How the hell can we trust somebody who was that close to Captain Planet? He’s probably a secret ecotard or something and we’ll all be driving Fred Flintstone electric cars if he gets elected president. He’s a real Manchurian Candidate.

    Your style is easy to imitate EPWJ.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/14/2011 @ 8:16 pm

  346. “But you are a Palin apologist”

    EPWJ – I would not call myself that. I have an aversion to lying. When you comment about Palin, your comments, to the extent you claim them to be factual, typically consist largely of lies. This has been proven repeatedly on this website and you lack the honor or integrity to admit it.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/14/2011 @ 8:27 pm

  347. I find he takes Sarah Palin rather seriously for … you know – her being Sarah Palin and all.

    happyfeet (3c92a1) — 9/14/2011 @ 8:50 pm

  348. I find I take Happyfeet seriously for being happyfeet……….Ok i do not.

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/14/2011 @ 9:25 pm

  349. http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150295067853435

    ian cormac (ed5f69) — 9/15/2011 @ 5:29 am

  350. “Oh well, lets kill women by denying them a cure for cancer for political gain.”

    Palin said that the vaccine was dangerous on Fox news when she knew it wasnt

    momma grizzly wants cancer to eat her female cubs

    Has epwj defended these lies and smears yet? Didn’t think so ….

    JD (318f81) — 9/15/2011 @ 5:36 am

  351. Yes offering it, because it was a CDC effort, but not mandating it, is exactly the same thing

    ian cormac (ed5f69) — 9/15/2011 @ 5:43 am

  352. JD

    I dont need to defend them, all you need to do is watch the clip

    http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/palin-joins-bachmann-in-bashing-perry-over-hpv-vaccine/

    Now I didnt read the commentary on this site – so I have no idea what it says but the point is that Palin accused perry of committing crimes and she knew the accusation was false as she also knew the Bachmann accusations were false

    So we can conclude that mamma grizzly wants her female cubs to die of cancer, otherwise she could have said that perry was wrong but his heart was in the right place

    but she didnt at 6.27 after a long Van susteren accusation of serious wrong doing by Perry when this has been vetted for 4 years covered in several campaigns against him – and these people know it – Palin went on and on and on

    She also refused to say it was a fatal disease and it was cancer – you can see where she pauses and then trys to say something then reverses and keeps on for about a minute

    The fact JD that you are so morally bankrupt as to not call Palin out doesnt really surprise anyone

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff) — 9/15/2011 @ 6:33 am

  353. Ian

    The CDC is trying to get congress to mandate it – Perry was taking the lead

    When Dan Patrick State Senator district 7 turned it after all had been said and done into a morality then he was on national TV making appearances forcing Perry to not have a cure for cancer

    What people dont realize is that a wave of 6 million infected people has arisen in America recently – perhaps even more and the CDC wanted young women to be vaccinated to save their lives

    People like Palin – who shows they will do or say anything to get those Fox paychecks, book deals and speaking engagements rolling in – are the very problem that they dupe the unattentive into believing their pied piper reformist Al Gorian mantra’s of positive activism for profit

    Whats interesting to note that Perry has raised about 30 million to run for Governor and Lt governor and to give to other texans running for office and serve the people of Texas

    Palin has raised the same amount BTW – what did she do with her 30 million?

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff) — 9/15/2011 @ 6:40 am

  354. You said she claimed the vaccine was dangerous, when she knew it was not. Nothing in your link or video supports that, because, in fact, she said nothing of the sort.

    You conflated vaccine and cure, and then accused people of denying treatment to kill women, when nobody was denied treatment. Nothing in your link supports that position.

    You claimed she wants cancer to kill her female children, and you suggest that is a rational conclusion to be drawn from presumably, her claim that this overall issue might suggest the possibility of some crony capitalism. No rational or sentient being could listen to her actual words in your link, and arrive at the conclusion that she wants cancer to kill her own female children.

    Face it. You lied. Repeatedly.

    JD (318f81) — 9/15/2011 @ 6:45 am

  355. forcing Perry to not have a cure for cancer

    Are you a drooling imbecile?! Silly question, I know. Gardasil is no cure for cancer. Period.

    JD (318f81) — 9/15/2011 @ 6:47 am

  356. Time for the Billy Madison speech, JD

    ian cormac (ed5f69) — 9/15/2011 @ 6:53 am

  357. Principal: Mr. EPWJ what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

    EPWJ : Okay, a simple “wrong” would’ve done just fine.

    JD (318f81) — 9/15/2011 @ 6:58 am

  358. I dont need to defend them, all you need to do is watch the clip

    It should be easy for you to quote the exact words she uttered that support your smears. I understand why you don’t defend your statements.

    JD (318f81) — 9/15/2011 @ 7:07 am

  359. “Oh well, lets kill women by denying them a cure for cancer for political gain.”

    EPWJ – Fact checkers say another bald-faced lie about Palin’s words.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/15/2011 @ 7:08 am

  360. I declare victory in exposing another vicious epwj lie about Sarah Palin. His claim, his source, just not provable. The shame continues.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/15/2011 @ 7:35 am

  361. I am shocked, shocked I tell you, to find that epwj has been less than 100% probitive in this (or any other) matter.
    Will this insanity never end?

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks ! (a63c7d) — 9/15/2011 @ 7:45 am

  362. Um. So once again, who are these “many” people posting here who support EPWJ’s…unusual…posts?

    Just curious.

    Simon Jester (b73fb2) — 9/15/2011 @ 7:48 am

  363. Gardasil prevents Cervical Cancer.

    DohBiden (d54602) — 9/15/2011 @ 8:28 am

  364. EPWJ – Rick Perry seems to have a creepy obsession about the sex lives of teenage girls. Should we be concerned? Hmmmmmm.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/15/2011 @ 9:30 am

  365. Comment by Simon Jester — 9/15/2011 @ 7:48 am

    See #247!

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks ! (a63c7d) — 9/15/2011 @ 9:31 am

  366. AD: E pluribus unum, I suppose.

    Simon Jester (c8876d) — 9/15/2011 @ 10:44 am

  367. don’t leave your cervix in a fog fog fog
    no no no
    give it gardasil!

    happyfeet (a55ba0) — 9/15/2011 @ 10:57 am


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