Did Biden’s Loose Lips Sink a Team 6 Airship?
After Bin Laden was killed, Robert Gates was insistent that nothing be revealed about the unit that accomplished the deed. But one man could not keep his mouth shut: Joe Biden, who credited the SEALs in a speech:
Let me briefly acknowledge tonight’s distinguished honorees. Admiral James Stavridis is a, is the real deal. He can tell you more about and understands the incredible, the phenomenal, the just almost unbelievable capacity of his Navy SEALs and what they did last Sunday.
Further irresponsible leaks from the Obama administration revealed the unit involved, causing the unit members to fear for their safety and that of their families:
The Department of Defense is looking into ways to “pump up the security” for the team of Navy SEALs who helped kill Osama bin Laden after the commandos expressed concern for their safety and the safety of their families, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Thursday.
Gates made the comment in response to a question at a town hall meeting at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina. A Marine asked what measures were being taken to protect “the identities and the lives” of the SEALs involved in the takedown of bin Laden in Pakistan a week ago, as well as other troops deployed in the region, from the threat of retaliation.
“We are very concerned about the security of our families – of your families and our troops, and also these elite units that are engaged in things like that. And without getting into any details … I would tell you that when I met with the team last Thursday, they expressed a concern about that, and particularly with respect to their families,” Gates told the audience.
“Frankly, a week ago Sunday, in the Situation Room, we all agreed that we would not release any operational details from the effort to take out bin Laden. That all fell apart on Monday, the next day.”
Gates specifically talked about the fear of potential retaliation:
Gates acknowledged the threat of retaliation against Team 6 and troops deployed in the region.
“There is an awareness that the threat of retaliation is increased because of the attacks – because of the action against bin Laden,” he said.
Today, that retaliation may have come to pass, as a Taliban RPG killed at least 20 members of Team 6, in “the single deadliest incident for U.S. soldiers by far” in the Afghanistan war. The members apparently were not part of the group involved in the raid, we are told (why are we told this? Won’t it keep the jihadis hunting?), and there is no way to know whether this was an orchestrated ambush targeting Team 6. But it is an important reminder why it’s not just comedy relief to have cynical glory-seekers and complete buffoons at the highest levels of government.
UPDATE: To elaborate on the “orchestrated ambush” theory, DRJ suggests a possibility in comments:
I don’t know any facts, obviously. Maybe this was a horrible coincidence or an accident. But here’s another possibility: Someone provided false intel that a high-value target would be in a specific location. The goal was to lure a special ops team into the area — the kind of team that went after Bin Laden. In other words, maybe this was an ambush. If so, then it’s reminiscent of Carter in Iran.
Seems possible to me.
Praying for those lost, their families and friends and all those affected. Also praying that this administration will grow up now or get out fast; they have cost our country far too much already. Praying…
Sue (86c170) — 8/6/2011 @ 12:09 pmGreat post.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/6/2011 @ 12:12 pmWhat a retarded post. fake Patterico,
Were the speeches on May 11 at Fort Campbell by Obama and Biden leaks, too?
http://www.theeaglepost.us/news/article_29e81b1a-7bd8-11e0-a1fa-001cc4c03286.html
Ron Brynaert (3d3df5) — 8/6/2011 @ 12:17 pmi seriously doubt that the Taliban were aware of just who was onboard that chopper and if they did than there is a real real serious issue here of operational security.
stormin1961 (0dd6f1) — 8/6/2011 @ 12:17 pmJoe Biden also just outed [redacted by Patterico] as a CIA operative who got married to Neal Rauhauser on the first Sunday gay weddings were legal in New York, too.
Ron Brynaert (3d3df5) — 8/6/2011 @ 12:19 pmThe only way to keep a secret, is to never tell it to either a Member of Congress, or an elected official
AD-RtR/OS! (2dd1ea) — 8/6/2011 @ 12:25 pm(unless you can put a watcher on him with authorization to Terminate with Extreme Prejudice after any indescretion-and let the pol know that in advance).
I’ll answer that question, “crazy” Ron Brynaert.
Leaks? Not if they were a deliberate release of information.
Criminally irresponsible? Sure.
Patterico (f724ca) — 8/6/2011 @ 12:26 pmDid the Taliban know who was aboard? Exactly how was it brought down? These are important questions that need to be answered quickly, not in the public eye perhaps, but they need answers.
Sue (86c170) — 8/6/2011 @ 12:26 pmI wondered why even announce the death of bin Laden at all?
AZ Bob (aa856e) — 8/6/2011 @ 12:26 pmI’ll keep my powder dry till more details emerge. If it was a planned attack in retaliation for killing bin Laden, it’s likely that a more advanced weapon, like a shoulder fired anti-aircraft guided missile, would have been used instead of a low-tech RPG. But, I’m only speculating without any information other than what’s posted above.
ropelight (93e182) — 8/6/2011 @ 12:27 pmThe only operational standard used by pols is “Self Aggrandizement”.
AD-RtR/OS! (2dd1ea) — 8/6/2011 @ 12:27 pmIf it won’t accomplish that, it’s not worth talking about.
What better place than a post about Joe Biden’s idiocy for Ron Brynaert to continue his lame loon act. “fake Patterico”?
SPQR (26be8b) — 8/6/2011 @ 12:30 pmSPQR, I kind of view blogs like someone’s living room. The host might invite a lot of people in, or just a few. But it’s not *my* living room.
But I don’t know quite what to say when one of the invitees keeps urinating on the rug and barking like a dog.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 8/6/2011 @ 12:32 pmIt could be just a coincidence, however, as with FOB. Chapman, what were the odds that one of Bin Laden’s trackers, the lead spotter for the drones,
ian cormac (81c5c2) — 8/6/2011 @ 12:33 pmwould all be in one place, at one time.
Simon Jester, well there is always “Bad Dog!”.
SPQR (26be8b) — 8/6/2011 @ 12:34 pmFirst off, you muzzle him; then you reattach the leash, and tie him to the porch outside.
AD-RtR/OS! (2dd1ea) — 8/6/2011 @ 12:34 pmWhat better place than a post about Joe Biden’s idiocy for Ron Brynaert to continue his lame loon act. “fake Patterico”?
I see it differently: Mr. Brynaert, don’t bring your crazy sock nonsense crap into a post where there are at the least 20 families grieving the loss of their heroic sons/husbands/brothers. It’s disgusting and you need to stop. Go be the center of attention somewhere else where it is welcome.
Dana (4eca6e) — 8/6/2011 @ 12:34 pmWhich reminds me, SPQR, of the old canine flatulence joke.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 8/6/2011 @ 12:36 pmHe would Dana, but over at those sites he’s dismissed as a “minor leaguer”.
AD-RtR/OS! (2dd1ea) — 8/6/2011 @ 12:36 pmDana, thank you for writing that. Truly. It’s a reminder of what is really important. And nutcase or poseur, RB should keep his crazee elsewhere.
And me, any joke.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 8/6/2011 @ 12:37 pmThe left will no doubt cite posts like this as examples of the right trying to “policitize” the downing of the helicopter.
Will that same left see Biden and Obama’s irresponsible revealing of operational details, posting great risk to the heroes who conducted this operation, as “politicizing” Osama’s death?
No, they will not.
Because they are huge hypocrites. And my message to anyone who makes that argument is: you are hacks.
Patterico (f724ca) — 8/6/2011 @ 12:38 pmRe Joe Biden:
The WaPo and NYT certainly gave him a pass re his terrorist comment, will they be consistent and give his loose lips a pass again now that lives have been lost? Is there a cap on the number of times one can claim the crazy uncle in the attic while being Vice-President?
*If I were one of the family members suffering now, I would not hesitate to be pointing my finger and laying blame. And that would be whether the VP was a D or an R.
(*based on the current information provided, which of course might be subject to change as things develop.)
Dana (4eca6e) — 8/6/2011 @ 12:39 pmShow of hands … Who thinks ron brynaert is crazy?
JD (0d2ffc) — 8/6/2011 @ 12:41 pmJust because I think Joe Biden is unworthy of public office, and a fool besides, doesn’t mean that I think many Republicans are wonderful.
I want that “none of the above” on every ballot. And if NOTA gets more than 25% of the vote, none of the other candidates should be allowed to run again.
But then, I’m a reactionary fascist or something.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 8/6/2011 @ 12:45 pmIt’s unanimous! – well, except for ron, but his vote doesn’t count.
AD-RtR/OS! (2dd1ea) — 8/6/2011 @ 12:45 pmAD, you aren’t counting RB’s invisible friends.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 8/6/2011 @ 12:46 pmWhat I can’t see, I can’t count.
AD-RtR/OS! (2dd1ea) — 8/6/2011 @ 12:52 pm– Robert’s Rules (or it should be).
Just fixed my comment and trashed the comments that referred to the mistake (which I appreciate).
Easy to make that mistake, huh?
Patterico (f724ca) — 8/6/2011 @ 1:03 pmJD: If you mean crazy like a fox, my hand is raised.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 8/6/2011 @ 1:05 pmThe Taliban/al Qaeda/Islmamist fanatics were extraordinarily “lucky”, weren’t they?
“The Taliban said a rocket-propelled grenade brought down the helicopter. That a lucky shot from such a relatively inaccurate weapon was the cause of the disaster will reassure Nato officials. They have long fretted that insurgents might get hold of the sophisticated surface-to-air missile systems that largely deprived the Red Army of its air advantage during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan in the 1980s.
Although there have been reports of such weapons systems being smuggled into Afghanistan from Iran, the insurgency has had relatively little success in attacking aircraft, given the huge amount of helicopter traffic in a country with very few roads.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/06/us-biggest-loss-afghan-war-helicopter-crash-38
I will say this – we are beset by enemies within even more than those without.
Apropos of nothing, where, oh where, is John Brennan? Perhaps he could obfuscate & spin & flood inaccurate details of the attack once again, just as he did after the UBL raid.
Miranda (4104db) — 8/6/2011 @ 1:05 pmPraying for those lost, their families and friends and all those affected. Also praying that this administration will grow up now or get out fast; they have cost our country far too much already. Praying…
Comment by Sue — 8/6/2011 @ 12:09 pm
Sue,
Beautifully put. Calm, soothing words that I so desperately needed to read right now. It reminds me to place my thoughts into praying from the families rather than cursing the individuals who have bloody hands in this matter.
My thoughts and prayers, non stop.
ppk_pixie (1df0c8) — 8/6/2011 @ 1:11 pmMy prayers and condolences to the fallen and their families. May God Bless them.
Jenny (fef5d5) — 8/6/2011 @ 1:16 pmRemember that Ron was a guy that thought Dick Cheney had his own private army of assassins so credibility on these kinds of matters, less than zero.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/6/2011 @ 1:17 pmI have the Texas prayer rally – The Response – live streaming all day. Quite incredible. http://www.theresponseusa.com
I pray to God that His justice and mercy will prevail and that our dear country will be saved.
But we have to have our eyes wide open – wise as a serpent, gentle as a dove.
Miranda (4104db) — 8/6/2011 @ 1:17 pm___________________________________________
Show of hands … Who thinks ron brynaert is crazy?
I confess to not keeping track of many of the liberals who post here, so I didn’t know the history of the person you mention.
When I first saw the link provided by brynaert, which went to a speech made by Obama at Fort Campbell following the killing of bin Laden, I thought it instead would lead to a webpage perhaps showing the way that a top member of the military blabbed about the SEALS almost as much as Obama and Biden had done.
As for Obama and war-type of actions, ya’ gotta give the dude credit for following correct procedures and protocol (Hello, US Congress!) when he sent (and is sending) the US military to Libya to fight Gaddafi. Yep, that Obama sure knows how to properly dot his i’s and cross his t’s.
I guess it’s okay to have the attitude and sentiments of “goddamn America” just as long as one’s heart and compassion — just as long as one’s do-gooderism — are on full display for everyone to see and marvel over.
Mark (411533) — 8/6/2011 @ 1:26 pmIsn’t it unusual to have confirmation so quickly that Seal Team Six guys were on that chopper? Why are we getting info so quickly? Not so long ago the Pentagon covered up the shooting down of a Chinook, did they not? need to find the link ….
Interesting comments on a Big Peace/breitbart.com story on this horrific tragedy:
dcase: “the REAL question is just why there were so many SEAL’s on the CH-47…
And the answer is that they are doing combat insertions that are the province of Army Rangers. SEAL’s are NOT combat infantry; they are highly specialized and well trained (expensive, too- about $900k per copy) and very good at their craft.
Having the Navy do these ops speaks more of either interservice rivalry or the drawdown of regular army, or both.
We weep for our fallen brothers. But something here is NOT RIGHT.
The board of inquiry on this- if not whitewashed (with Team 6 it just might be) should prove interesting. Will the politicians and the generals learn their lessons and NOT sacrifice these fine kids needlessly? ”
EOD: “In my own opinion I believe that Obama in effect signed the death warrant of SEAL Team 6 when the Obama White House told the World that SEAL Team 6 killed OBL.
Miranda (4104db) — 8/6/2011 @ 1:28 pmI also believe that our supposed Allies in the region must have given up the SEALs Op times and destination.
SEAL Team 6 has had a Target on its back since the Obama Administration illegally told the World that SEAL Team 6 killed OBL. “
The loss to the safety of the world of these exceptionally brave and highly trained heroes is incalculable. I am heartsick and unable to put cogent thoughts together.
elissa (4c872f) — 8/6/2011 @ 1:29 pmhow many people are on Team 6 anyway nobody tells me anything
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 8/6/2011 @ 1:33 pmhappyfeet – 300 on Team 6, according to my recent reading.
Miranda (4104db) — 8/6/2011 @ 1:34 pmthank you – that’s a lot bigger than I would’ve thought but of course all I have to go by is GI Joe cartoons
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 8/6/2011 @ 1:35 pmSo 25 SEALS x $900,000 each = $22,500,000
Yes, the monetary of those SEALS alone – twenty two million five hundred thousand dollars.
Doesn’t make sense.
Sorry for the multiple posts but I am so upset. We ill serve our finest & bravest by not being irate & raising hell about this & about the Usurper-in-Chief. Maybe it was just an incredibly lucky break for al Qaeda …. but something stinks about this tragedy.
Those men defend us – our freedom – our safety – our comfort & convenience – by laying down their very lives in sacrifice. What will we do to defend them? Nothing?
Miranda (4104db) — 8/6/2011 @ 1:41 pmI think that’s probably substantially low-balling their value really
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 8/6/2011 @ 1:43 pmIn A Clear and Present Danger White House officials revealed the operational location of US combat troops so they could be hunted down and killed. The deal was made with the enemy in exchange for keeping quite about illegal Administration activities. Just sayin’
ropelight (93e182) — 8/6/2011 @ 1:46 pmShow of hands … Who thinks ron brynaert is crazy?
I don’t. I believe he’s cunning, conniving, calculating and a master manipulator. To what end is anyone’s guess. But this is not the thread for that…
Dana (4eca6e) — 8/6/2011 @ 1:48 pmTotally understandable. This is a huge setback.
I am quite certain that Biden’s actions have painted more of a bullseye on the SEALs and their families. I suspect it’s only a matter of time before they are attacked stateside. And this means more time and effort spent protecting them, making their jobs harder. There was a great reason to keep this Bin Laden operation completely shrouded in secrecy. Keep our enemies guessing.
But the democrats wanted as much press and attention on a rare triumph on their watch. That’s all there was to it, and it was a severe mistake.
I think we should be wary of the details we’re getting about this attack. Afghanistan is surrounded with spin these days. If they used an advanced SAM (and why wouldn’t they occasionally get such a weapon if Iran can get such a weapon?) I don’t think our administration would (or should) publicize that information.
These SEALs were on their way to a serious engagement, so there are a variety of motivations for stopping them.
Anyhow, I share Miranda’s feelings on this.
Mark, I don’t want to stray off topic, but be very careful before clicking any of Ron’s links. I did, and he posted my IP address for the crime of doing so, leading to some hassles.
Dana, I agree, it is profane to get into that kind of topic when discussing something so solemn and serious.
Dustin (b7410e) — 8/6/2011 @ 1:51 pmDana, it might be a good idea to ask Patterico to do a separate Ron B thread.
Is he evil, or is he crazy? is he both? or neither? blah blah blah I’ve actually had some thoughts on that but have been busy lately.
Right now I have bile in my throat over the unnecessary deaths of these soldiers.
Miranda (4104db) — 8/6/2011 @ 1:51 pmCross posted with Dana. I was certainly not criticizing Dana’s #44 (which is insightful).
Dustin (b7410e) — 8/6/2011 @ 1:52 pmRopelight – I’m going to say this because I am so so so upset – it’s like they’re getting killed off. Compare the casualty rates in Afghanistan under the Obama reign to that under GWB. It’s striking how many more men we have lost – and virtual silence from the sycophantic press.
Read this NPR article from May – it was a deliberate strategy by the Obama admin to send in many more Special Ops forces to A’stan:
http://www.npr.org/2011/05/09/136144256/seal-team-six-and-other-elite-squads-expanding
Miranda (4104db) — 8/6/2011 @ 1:57 pmDana, it might be a good idea to ask Patterico to do a separate Ron B thread.
Not as far as I’m concerned. Why give Mr. Brynaert an audience?
Miranda, #48, interesting comment.
Dana (4eca6e) — 8/6/2011 @ 2:01 pmThat the media doesn’t report it is pretty amazing. It’s five times higher under Obama. Under Bush, they reported practically every single casualty.
It’s sick, because their silence today shows they were using those KIAs for partisan purposes like ghouls.
Miranda, I think democrat presidents tend to be more naive about the use of force. They like sending tiny teams of supersoldiers because they think the political cost is lower if things go badly. Carter was the same way with Iran.
Just my take on it. I don’t really know what the hell Obama is thinking, because we all know he intends to cut and run. If we’re going to do that, why waste precious lives? Either we are totally committed, or we don’t ask soldiers to risk their lives.
Dustin (b7410e) — 8/6/2011 @ 2:05 pmMiranda:
I don’t know any facts, obviously. Maybe this was a horrible coincidence or an accident. But here’s another possibility: Someone provided false intel that a high-value target would be in a specific location. The goal was to lure a special ops team into the area — the kind of team that went after Bin Laden. In other words, maybe this was an ambush. If so, then it’s reminiscent of Carter in Iran.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 8/6/2011 @ 2:05 pm51) That would make sense, from reading further on in the Guardian piece:
One of Nato’s intelligence “fusion cells”, where information from informants and mobile phone intercepts is pored over by hundreds of analysts, would have been responsible for pinpointing the target of the mission, a senior Taliban commander called Sheen Marouf.
He was believed to be with his men in a compound in Joi Zareen, a town in the Tangi Valley, where there is a strong Taliban presence
ian cormac (81c5c2) — 8/6/2011 @ 2:07 pmThanks DRJ. My thinking’s a little clouded right now – didn’t think of that.
Hey, maybe this was Project Gunrunner 2.0. Let me make a wild guess – John Brennan supervised the distribution of surface-to-air missiles to the Taliban. So much more accurate than RPG’s. We only know from media reports that an RPG shot the chopper down. And we all know how accurate media reports were after the UBL raid. That way we can “track” the missiles. Right?
Problem is I’m only half-joking. I wouldn’t put it past him.
Miranda (4104db) — 8/6/2011 @ 2:12 pmBefore Obama changed the Rules of Engagement, once our intelligence services located an upper echelon terrorist a smart bomb would be delivered down his smokestack from 25,000 feet and no US ground forces would have been sent into harm’s way.
After Obama changed the ROE ostensibly to protect innocent bystanders, but in reality to protect Muslim terrorists, dozens of our best troops are blindly sent by politicians in Washington DC into well prepared ambushes preset by the enemy.
ropelight (93e182) — 8/6/2011 @ 2:32 pmThe best way to thwart an ambush is “Rolling Thunder”; and let God sort it out.
AD-RtR/OS! (2dd1ea) — 8/6/2011 @ 2:33 pmI understand the sentiment AD, but I prefer the rapier to the bludgeon.
ropelight (93e182) — 8/6/2011 @ 2:35 pmRapiers work with sophisticated people who follow the Marquis of Queensbury Rules,
with “Missouri Mules” you need a 2 X 4 between the eyes.
“Very few problems can’t be corrected by the proper application of High-Explosives!”
AD-RtR/OS! (2dd1ea) — 8/6/2011 @ 2:39 pmAs much as I love Patterico and as little regard as I have for the current Administration, I disagree on this thread. Not only would the bad guys not know who was on that helicopter, the movements of SOF Forces in Afghanistan are highly classified so its highly unlikely the bad guys would even know the DEVGRU/Seal Team 6 guys were on their way.
Like others have said, this is either a lucky shot by a Talib or the introduction of higher tech weapons by a bad actor like Iran.
Kaisersoze (298188) — 8/6/2011 @ 2:43 pmKaisersoze,
What about DRJ’s theory that an ambush was set?
Seems pretty doable to me.
Patterico (f724ca) — 8/6/2011 @ 2:48 pmUPDATE: To elaborate on the “orchestrated ambush” theory, DRJ suggests a possibility in comments:
Seems possible to me.
Patterico (f724ca) — 8/6/2011 @ 2:51 pmAlso, since there were Afghan forces on-board, the opportunity to compromise the mission by higher ups is a possibility that can’t be ignored.
ropelight (93e182) — 8/6/2011 @ 2:53 pmI don’t believe I had had such strong and deep feelings that an administration was so completely incompetent since the Carter administration. At this point I would say that these feelings toward the Obama administration are even stronger than the feelings I had toward Carter.
I believed Carter meant well but was just an incompetent boob. I have strong feelings that this administration isn’t simply incompetent, they are malevolent.
crosspatch (6adcc9) — 8/6/2011 @ 2:57 pmWhat about DRJ’s theory that an ambush was set?
Comment by Patterico — 8/6/2011 @ 2:48 pm
Its certainly possible. I wouldn’t rule it out, but in military operations its not only true that “the simplest explanation is usually correct” but also “never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity or bureaucracy”
Kaisersoze (298188) — 8/6/2011 @ 3:01 pmcrosspatch, it’s nearly impossible to come to any other conclusion if you examine the evidence with an open mind. If it waddles when it walks, has feathers, and quacks, it’s probably a duck.
ropelight (93e182) — 8/6/2011 @ 3:02 pmI have strong feelings that this administration isn’t simply incompetent, they are malevolent.
Comment by crosspatch — 8/6/2011 @ 2:57 pm
Totally agree. I swear I’m going to get T-shirts made that say “Greece wasn’t built in a Day”.
Kaisersoze (298188) — 8/6/2011 @ 3:02 pmI agree crosspatch. Obama & his cohorts aren’t incompetent – many of them are downright brilliant. Obama himself isn’t so bright – he’s more of a figurehead – he’s so vain he can be easily manipulated by others in power.
Malevolence – pure evil – is afoot. The Nazi’s weren’t incompetent – they were brilliant. It took a lot of smart doctors & engineers & lawyers to design their infrastructure of mass murder.
Nice refresher as to the inclinations of our Counter-terrorism chief – oops, not “terrorism” but extremism:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/05/27/counterterror-adviser-defends-jihad-legitimate-tenet-islam/
Miranda (4104db) — 8/6/2011 @ 3:03 pmRapiers work with sophisticated people who follow the Marquis of Queensbury Rules,
with “Missouri Mules” you need a 2 X 4 between the eyes.
“Very few problems can’t be corrected by the proper application of High-Explosives!”
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/6/2011 @ 2:39 pm
Not the “Marquis” I want to use at this point, as angry as I am. But I agree with you, yes…yes I do.
ppk_pixie (1df0c8) — 8/6/2011 @ 3:04 pmDiscovering precisely what it was that shot it down is of paramount importance on several levels: if it was an RPG, it was an unbelievably lucky hit. But if it was something other than an RPG, it could critically impact troops and their nighttime actions.
That is why military officials will want to piece together what happened as precisely as possible. Rocket-propelled grenades – the Taliban’s primary weapon against helicopters – are famously inaccurate. But if the Saturday crash offers any evidence that the Taliban has improved on RPGs or found a more-accurate substitute, it could change the calculus of when and where coalition forces are willing to commit to crucial nighttime raids.
If evidence points to a “lucky shot,” though, the attack could have little tactical impact on the war.
Dana (4eca6e) — 8/6/2011 @ 3:05 pmHave not had time to read all of the comments but to the person asking about how possible it would be to hit a helicopter with an RPG – Depending on the flight profile and the terrain, very possible. In fact volley firing (large number of gunners firing at once or in rapid sequence)RPGs at helicopters was a tactic successfully used by the muhjadin against the Soviet Hip and Hind helicopters in the 80’s.
A Chinook is a large target, especially if it is operating in low of nap of earth flight.
Have Blue (dbbcd4) — 8/6/2011 @ 3:07 pm_______________________________________________
I have strong feelings that this administration isn’t simply incompetent, they are malevolent.
And that form of malevolence is rooted in a peculiar, ultra-liberal — or ultra-ultra-liberal — mindset.
_______________________________________________
Mark (411533) — 8/6/2011 @ 3:14 pmThe Taliban didn’t need sophisticated weapons if this was an ambush. Like the IRA, they “only have to get lucky once.”
DRJ (a83b8b) — 8/6/2011 @ 3:15 pmvolley firing (large number of gunners firing at once or in rapid sequence)RPGs at helicopters was a tactic successfully used by the muhjadin against the Soviet Hip and Hind helicopters in the 80′s.
Related trivia. The US Army leadership had decided to take Stinger missiles out of the inventory in late 1970’s because they thought they were just too complicated for 19 year Private Joe Schmuckatelli from Ahole, Arkansas. Several years later when 15 year old illiterate Afghans were knocking Soviet Hinds out of the sky….. they changed their minds.
Kaisersoze (298188) — 8/6/2011 @ 3:15 pmLike the IRA, they “only have to get lucky once.”
True. And if they weren’t lucky the first time, they could try again. And again….
Dana (4eca6e) — 8/6/2011 @ 3:17 pmHey, I thought all we had to do was give peace a chance. Remember we’re having peace talks with the Taliban:
http://afpak.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/06/20/daily_brief_us_confirms_taliban_peace_talks
I guess we’re just not “engaged” enough with outreach to the child abusing, wife-beating, Christian-murdering, sharia-adhering, pedophiliac Taliban.
Miranda (4104db) — 8/6/2011 @ 3:19 pm#68, Dana, don’t expect the truth to come out even if they know exactly what sort of weapon brought down the chopper.
Remember TWA Flight 800? It went down near East Moriches, NY with over a hundred eye witnesses who saw evidence of a missile trail rise up, track the passenger jet, and bring it down.
The National Transportation Safety Board, the FBI, and the CIA combined to conceal the evidence and even went so far as to manufacture a video to bamboozle the yokels.
If you wait for an official version of events it’s more likely to be a self-serving fiction than a description of actual events. Dog and pony shows abound when aircraft go down. Modern examples are more numerous than the government’s fingers in your pocket.
ropelight (93e182) — 8/6/2011 @ 3:23 pmI think that it’s FAN-tastic that Ron Brynaert is allowed to speak his mind here without getting banned by chickensh*ts like he would be on other blogs.
Summit, NJ (75c9eb) — 8/6/2011 @ 3:44 pmRon is a part of Obama’s teabagger club.
DohBiden (d54602) — 8/6/2011 @ 3:50 pmPowerLine’s Steven Hayward posted the following excerpt August 6, 2011:
Time for Another Hard Look at Our “Allies”?
“…it seems doubtful this is a coincidence. I hope a congressional committee will not accept the State Department and Pentagon line on what happened, and inquires whether Bin Laden sympathizers in Pakistan’s ISI, or inside the Afghan government, played some role in targeting and bringing down this crew.”
ropelight (93e182) — 8/6/2011 @ 3:59 pmThe theory now beginning to circulate on places like Free Republic is that this was an “inside job” to “silence” those who took part in the bin Laden raid. In other words, Obama’s people leaked info to the Taliban so that the DEVGRU men would be killed. Why? Because there’s “something phony” about the bin Laden raid, and DEVGRU was about to spill the beans!
I’m as dedicated an Obama opponent as you can be, but this is pure, barking, foam-spewing insanity. It’s shocking and demoralizing to see people on my side buying into this notion.
Llarry (a8c565) — 8/6/2011 @ 4:14 pmLlarry,
Can you provide a link? I can’t find it.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 8/6/2011 @ 4:28 pmSad event. Far, far too soon for this sort of speculation.
John (d9829b) — 8/6/2011 @ 4:29 pmGod Bless the USN, the Seals, all brothers and sisters in harm’s way, their families, friends and loved ones. No one deserves to die for President Conga Line, but warriors are willing to die for their people. This nightmare in DC cannot end soon enough.
bear1909 (f91aa2) — 8/6/2011 @ 4:34 pmDRJ, check out Breitbart’s Big Peace site:
Is the New Yorker’s Navy Seals Cover Story Fake? by Joel B. Pollak.
ropelight (93e182) — 8/6/2011 @ 4:42 pmAt Free Republic, this link of comments wherein commenters suggest and agree regarding the possibility of the WH giving them up.
Dana (4eca6e) — 8/6/2011 @ 4:44 pmAt Free Republic, this link of comments wherein commenters suggest and agree regarding the possibility of the WH giving them up.
Ugh. At this Free Republic link, commenters are suggesting the possibility of the WH giving up the Navy Seals.
Dana (4eca6e) — 8/6/2011 @ 4:47 pmObama – we deserve what we elect.
Jack MeHoff (f1a217) — 8/6/2011 @ 4:52 pmExpanded link.
Dana (4eca6e) — 8/6/2011 @ 4:54 pmThanks, Dana, although I don’t see any explanation what those 2 Free Republic commenters mean when they claim the White House “gave them [the Seals] up.” Is that explained elsewhere?
Thanks, Ropelight. Here’s a link to the Big Peace article that has several questionable comments. I don’t understand their reasoning and apparently other commenters don’t, either, because they added “Tin Foil Hat” warnings.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 8/6/2011 @ 4:56 pmNo, it’s not too soon to speculate. This isn’t a forum for grieving families of the victims of the attack yesterday.
Do we think the cretins w/in the Obama admin would be capable of aiding/abetting the Taliban to kill our own SEALs? Yes, absolutely.
Do we have actual evidence of a set up? No – nor are we likely to ever have that evidence. Do we have circumstantial evidence that would lead one to that conclusion? We’ll see in the coming weeks.
Compare the almost immediate confirmation from various Obama officials confirming that SEALS were killed in the attack, to the Chinook attack back in ’05 when 16 Special Forces soldiers were killed by an RPG launched at their CH-47. Confirmation didn’t happen for some time (can’t recall how long).
Miranda (4104db) — 8/6/2011 @ 4:59 pmIf there were Afghans involved in the operation, then it was not a secure mission…..
Infidel (6694e9) — 8/6/2011 @ 5:01 pmI don’t think the Obama Administration would deliberately help our enemies kill Seals or troops, but I’m concerned that outing the Bin Laden Seal team helped our enemy understand how special ops teams handle high value targets.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 8/6/2011 @ 5:03 pmThis comment piqued my interest,
My fire-team is part of a [quick reaction unit] made up of commando’s from all branches of the service, including British SAS.
We were monitoring, but, never got the call. Word is, this was a snatch operation, and the operations commander underestimated the strength of the enemy and was trying to cover his ass when the reinforcements were called in.
God help us all, when your ass is in this deep, you call in heavy gunships, i.e. specter’s, etc. to support the men on the ground!
This mission does not pas the smell test with my unit!
82nd ABN 1/508th BN
Can someone here with a military background add to this?
Dana (4eca6e) — 8/6/2011 @ 5:05 pmRe the wild & crazy lunatic conspiracy theory that the man killed in the Abbotabad raid wasn’t actually UBL – read both articles carefully:
http://bigpeace.com/jrosenthal/2011/05/11/new-bin-laden-clips-raise-more-questions-than-they-answer/
http://bigpeace.com/jrosenthal/2011/05/13/uh-oh-senator-inhofe-on-the-osama-bin-laden-death-photos/
Breitbart’s sites don’t publish lunatic theories & rubbish in general. Not saying the man killed wasn’t UBL – just saying that reasonable, rational, intelligent people can entertain doubt about it.
Recall also how Panetta & Brennan & the WH Press Sec’y each gave out lots of details, and their stories didn’t agree. Brennan even held forth in the WH briefing room for about 1/2 hour. Then Gates complained that too many details were being released. Complete cluster f**k.
But they’re not stupid people. Seems like a strategy to me – flood the media with lots of details. The story gets so confused no one knows what the truth is anymore (helmet cams? or not? etc.)
Miranda (4104db) — 8/6/2011 @ 5:10 pmMiranda, indeed the White House is full of morons, Brennan not the least of them. And feedin lunatic theories is only part of why the stupidity that is the White House is so infuriating.
SPQR (26be8b) — 8/6/2011 @ 5:31 pmDRJ, I suspect the commenters who added “Tin Foil Hat” warnings are the ones who didn’t bother to read Georgetown University professor C. Christine Fair’s linked post at Registan.net
ropelight (93e182) — 8/6/2011 @ 5:39 pmDana, an AC-130 Spectre gunship is a C-130 outfitted with all sorts of delicious weaponry, including Vulcan, 20mm cannon (cyclic rate: 4000+ rounds/minute); a BOFORS 40mm cannon (this is the same basic weapon used as AA protection by Navy ships as far back as WW-2, and earlier – a very effective, high-cyclic rate, weapon), and a 105mm Howitzer. A Spectre in a holding pattern around a target can deliver sustained, devastating firepower upon a location for several minutes without let-up – you don’t want to be on the receiving end.
In VietNam, the early versions were called “Puff the Magic Dragon”, because at night, it seemed that the sky was breathing fire.
AD-RtR/OS! (2dd1ea) — 8/6/2011 @ 5:42 pmFrom: MSNBC
None of those killed in the crash is believed to have been part of the SEALs mission that killed bin Laden, but they were from the same unit as the bin Laden team……
…..least one CH-47F Chinook helicopter was hit by a rocket propelled grenade on July 25. Two coalition crew members were injured in that attack.
I’m thinking some type of shoulder launched surface to air missile is involved, not an RPG.
MSL (f060a0) — 8/6/2011 @ 5:44 pmIt seems misinformation was released in an attempt to get the story out there first. This update from Ricochet:
At this hour, there are conflicting reports about the details of those killed in the crash. AP reports that “none of the 22 SEAL personnel killed in the crash were part of the team that killed bin Laden in a May raid in Pakistan, but they belonged to the same unit.” CBS offers a conflicting report stating that, “more than 20 U.S. special operations forces killed, most of them Navy SEALs, reports CBS News correspondent David Martin in Washington. They were not members of SEAL Team 6, as some reports claim.”
[Caught in spam filter and released.]
Dana (4eca6e) — 8/6/2011 @ 5:48 pmNo, it was a helicopter.
Spartacvs (2d9449) — 8/6/2011 @ 5:52 pmDana, it means that guys who know a thing or two about special ops aren’t buying the cover story.
ropelight (93e182) — 8/6/2011 @ 5:53 pm@MSL….no doubt something the ISI got from the Chinese. Probably some of the HN-5’s they got as part of the “look see” deal at the stealth chopper tail section….
Infidel (6694e9) — 8/6/2011 @ 5:54 pmDo you really think the Taliban can’t make unit IDs from uniforms, equipment, weapons? Do you believe that they don’t know who they are fighting, who operates from which bases. Some secrets need to be kept, otherwise we got our people KILLED, do you understand that LIBERALS?
Boar Breath (09b305) — 8/6/2011 @ 5:55 pmComment by ropelight — 8/6/2011 @ 5:53 pm
“Those that are talking don’t know;
AD-RtR/OS! (2dd1ea) — 8/6/2011 @ 5:56 pmand those that know aren’t talking!”
No, it was a helicopter.
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/6/2011 @ 5:52 pm
You are not following the discussion at all.
SPQR (26be8b) — 8/6/2011 @ 5:58 pmWould it then be considered unusual for Seals to be called up for this sort of mission?
Also, (I think my comment was eaten), it would appear misinformation was released early in an attempt to get the story out first. No doubt, there will be continuing adjustments to the story as more information is released… of course, depending on what one believes is happening behind the scenes, a lot of smell tests will also be occurring.
At this hour, there are conflicting reports about the details of those killed in the crash. AP reports that “none of the 22 SEAL personnel killed in the crash were part of the team that killed bin Laden in a May raid in Pakistan, but they belonged to the same unit.” CBS offers a conflicting report stating that, “more than 20 U.S. special operations forces killed, most of them Navy SEALs, reports CBS News correspondent David Martin in Washington. They were not members of SEAL Team 6, as some reports claim.”
[Caught in spam filter and released.]
Dana (4eca6e) — 8/6/2011 @ 5:58 pmPatterico had a question. I answered it.
Spartacvs (2d9449) — 8/6/2011 @ 5:59 pmI was shocked by the details Obama, Biden and others were releasing within hours of the raid. These people obviously have no understanding of OPSEC and no interest in it either.
If I were a SEAL or any other special forces member I would be getting out before they put me and my family and my outfit at risk because they can’t keep their mouths shut!
WarEagle82 (14aecd) — 8/6/2011 @ 6:00 pmStashiu, if you’re here, I had a question and I think it got stuck in moderation.
Dana (4eca6e) — 8/6/2011 @ 6:02 pmAmerican military operations are constantly hindered by POLITICAL decisions made by political operatives, they get our troops killed! Not being allowed to fire in Vietnam till you were fired at first. No armor allowed in Mogadishu leads to the “Black Hawk Down” episode. We can’t shoot at pirates who are taking hostages on the high seas. We have to consult lawyers during combat operations, can you imagine telling Patton, or MacArthur, or Eisenhower to check with the lawyers during combat, but this is now normal. When you fight a war the politicians should only show up when it is time to sign their surrender documents
Boar Breath (09b305) — 8/6/2011 @ 6:10 pmThe fact that McRaven’s group, was tagged as ‘Cheney’s death squad’ by unscrupulous sorts, that
ian cormac (81c5c2) — 8/6/2011 @ 6:10 pmthis administration, did try to persecute the SEALs
who slapped the butcher of the Fallujah bridge, does make one think untoward things. But Professor Fair’s piece has her own assumptions, imbedded therein, like ignoring Schmidle’s track record of reporting from Pakistan, ascribing Gen. Schmidle’s policy views to his son,
WarEagle82 – if you were a Seal you’d be thrown out well before you had time to exercise the option, for the kind of dumb accusation Patterico is pushing
Spartacvs (2d9449) — 8/6/2011 @ 6:12 pmropelight,
Here is Fair’s article and it argues The New Yorker article could be based on second-hand conjecture rather than first-hand knowledge. You seem to be suggesting it also supports a claim that the Obama Administration wanted the Seal team to be killed because of something they knew or some other reason. Am I misreading your comments?
Because IMO Fair’s article doesn’t support that claim. At most, it suggests scenarios Muslims might believe, not what Fair thinks actually happened.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 8/6/2011 @ 6:12 pmOho! Please, sparticvs: what kind of “dumb accusation” is Patterico pushing? Please be specific.
See, this is why I am pretty sure you are a PBT. You have issues.
Simon Jester (c47db4) — 8/6/2011 @ 6:14 pmSpartacvs, the SpecOps community has told SecDef Gates in very blunt terms that the breach of operational security from the Bin Laden op is a threat to the safety of their families and they don’t appreciate it.
Very blunt terms.
You are clown.
SPQR (26be8b) — 8/6/2011 @ 6:17 pmSPQR, I’m starting think this more like Kman’s “Brokeback Mountain” fixation.
Simon Jester (c47db4) — 8/6/2011 @ 6:24 pmDRJ, Fair does make a reasonable case that Schmidle’s claims of first-hand knowledge are unsupported by either evidence or by persuasive arguments.
I’m definitely not suggesting the Obama Administration wanted the SEAL team killed, nor am I foreclosing the possibility. However, the way I read Fair is that she has her own ideas which don’t necessarily coincide with mine.
ropelight (93e182) — 8/6/2011 @ 6:39 pmSomewhat off-track but too rich not to post here.
Read Maureen Dowd’s account of O’s take on the SEALs:
“When the president is asked what it felt like to kill Osama, he’s low-key and modest, even though he personally refocused the mission to capture the 9/11 architect after W. dropped the ball.
He has told people what a thrill it was to meet SEAL Team 6 — and the dog Cairo — which pulled off the hit, noting that the men looked less young and fearsome than he expected, and more like guys working at Home Depot.”
Plus look what we can expect right before the ’12 election – a blockbuster of a movie, re the UBL raid:
“The White House is … counting on the Kathryn Bigelow and Mark Boal big-screen version of the killing of bin Laden to counter Obama’s growing reputation as ineffectual.
The Sony film by the Oscar-winning pair who made “The Hurt Locker” will no doubt reflect the president’s cool, gutsy decision against shaky odds. Just as Obamaland was hoping, the movie is scheduled to open on Oct. 12, 2012 — perfectly timed to give a home-stretch boost to a campaign that has grown tougher.
The moviemakers are getting top-level access to the most classified mission in history from an administration that has tried to throw more people in jail for leaking classified information than the Bush administration.
It was clear that the White House had outsourced the job of manning up the president’s image to Hollywood when Boal got welcomed to the upper echelons of the White House and the Pentagon and showed up recently — to the surprise of some military officers — at a CIA ceremony celebrating the hero SEALs.”
http://www.startribune.com/opinion/otherviews/127067228.html?page=1&c=y
When GWB was Pres, Hollywood made “Death of a President”. For Obama, the celebrity elitists make a movie glorifying …. Obama.
Words cannot describe the absolute disgust I feel. Again, these people are not stupid. They will not relinquish power easily. It is NOT just about the economy, stupid. Yet the GOP constantly repeats that refrain.
It’s about liberty vs. tyranny, good vs. evil. And we have got to find some way of driving that message home to voters.
Miranda (4104db) — 8/6/2011 @ 7:07 pmAh Mark Boal, the one who slandered the troops in ‘Elah’ and had more than his share of misrepresentations in ‘Hurt Locker’
ian cormac (81c5c2) — 8/6/2011 @ 7:11 pmYeah, you’re clearly the authority on the standards of a unit you can’t even type the name of.
SEALs probably value operational security such as big mouth Biden violated against a specific request. The entire week or two after had an administration rushing to provide so many details that they couldn’t even keep the story straight.
Miranda’s MoDo quote disgusts me. Acting like Obama personally is a badass, or W somehow ‘dropped the ball’… ugh. Typical politicization of every damn thing. 9/11 happened to us without regard for politics, but the left tried to make sure this triumph wasn’t for the right. What a pack of bastards.
I will note that I do not find it realistic that this administration would try to cull our best men. I think the problem is they rely too heavily on special forces as a magic solution to impossible situations. They are a precious and awesome tool, but they need to go hand in hand with a large military operation.
Anyone following Yon’s work knows there is a lot we could do better for this operation. We just aren’t committed. Biden’s big mouth is just another symptom of an administration that simply doesn’t take this part of their job very seriously.
Dustin (b7410e) — 8/6/2011 @ 7:23 pmI really want to believe this is not the case.
Prayers and condolences to these heroes, and may their families find comfort and solace.
Bugg (ea1809) — 8/6/2011 @ 7:33 pmDid Biden’s Loose Lips Sink a Team 6 Airship?Filed under: General — Patterico @ 11:58 am
Lots of ‘grassy knolls’ in Afghanistan, Patterico, and ‘the fog of war’ tends to obscure good visability in the early hours. Regardless, it’s a hard day. Condolences to the families.
DCSCA (9d1bb3) — 8/6/2011 @ 9:18 pmComment by Spartacvs — 8/6/2011 @ 6:12 pm
Spoken like a nerd whose closest access to the military was watching Duke get speared by Serpentor.
Another Chris (c983db) — 8/6/2011 @ 9:28 pm— Twenty-five U.S. special forces killed early Saturday in Afghanistan were on a mission to rescue another team of military personnel pinned down by insurgents, a U.S. military official told CNN.
The helicopter that went down in eastern Afghanistan carried 30 U.S. military members, including 22 Navy SEALs and three other special forces. They were part of a “quick reaction force” sent in to pick up others engaged in a fierce firefight, the official said.
ian cormac (81c5c2) — 8/6/2011 @ 9:39 pmWhat, no mention of the Vice Presidents complicity in their deaths Ian? Get with the program already. This is a righty teatard blog dedicated to spreading the word about how Obama is unfit to be president and should be impeached… or something.
Spartacvs (2d9449) — 8/6/2011 @ 10:34 pmnot impeached just scorned reviled and shunned
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 8/6/2011 @ 10:36 pmI don’t know, previously banned troll. It seems to be a blog where losers who were banned in the past sneak around like children and post insults—and then complain that it’s an echo chamber. Don’t you think?
You are really pretty pathetic.
Simon Jester (c47db4) — 8/6/2011 @ 10:39 pmHappy feet@125
Job done then, as far as this place is concerned.
Spartacvs (2d9449) — 8/6/2011 @ 10:42 pmI’m glad to see Spvrty’s expressions of regret over the loss of the lives of American and allied forces, or did I miss those expressions of regret?
It’s also interesting to see Spvrty supporting the revelation of operational security details by political functionaries far removed from danger so our forces can have even bigger bulls eyes painted on our backs. The lying cowardly little crap weasel sees nothing wrong with that practice based on its comments here.
Great support of the troops Spvrty!
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/6/2011 @ 10:58 pmYeah that’s great support for the troops Daley, invoking them as your personal political pawn in a discussion on the Internet.
Grow up and grow a pair.
Spartacvs (2d9449) — 8/6/2011 @ 11:09 pm“invoking them as your personal political pawn in a discussion on the Internet.”
Exactly your behavior here today. Take your own advice, asswipe.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/6/2011 @ 11:15 pmSpvrty – Why not make fun of Trig Palin next? That would be right up your alley.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/6/2011 @ 11:18 pmWhat is it with the projection the progressive Left displays, daley? It’s kind of sick.
Simon Jester (c47db4) — 8/6/2011 @ 11:30 pmSparticles and Disco Stu vying for the coveted title of “Tool of the Year”. How precious!
Icy Texan (08b9d8) — 8/7/2011 @ 12:51 amWell here’s a surprising new low.
The world’s media was talking about ST6 doing this for weeks, but somehow if Biden says the same then this can get a chopper shot down 2 months later for no apparent reason?
So I guess if just mentioning their existence is bad then the previous time a SEAL chopper got shot down and someone wrote a book about that whole mission in great detail, then that got sold for a few years, that’d be a bigger attempt to kill SEALs, yeah?
Anyone want Marcus Luttrell’s contact info so you can call him out for far greater treasonous disclosures, or does this pretend outrage fake linkage BS just not really work at all in the real world?
Either way, nice to see that not even the deaths of heroes will be passed up for use as cheap, pointless, political point scoring.
Danz (b11060) — 8/7/2011 @ 2:00 amI’ve lost count of the times that the US military, the old “G-2,” has been outsmarted or tricked by an insanely clever and evil opponent. The Afghans have been specializing in guerrilla war for almost 2500 years, even conning Alexander the Great into marrying Roxanne to lower his guard [or maybe she was just that hot?].
The only thing I can think of to say positively about the motor-mouth Veep is that he does have some skin in the game—a son who has served in Iraq, and not just as a fake “journalist” like phony Al Gore did in Vietnam with a couple of bodyguards around him at all times.
For Biden to shoot off his big Irish piehole about Seal Team 6 just rubs salt in the wounds of the Afghanis & the ca-raaaazy A-rabs—reminding us of the old Indian proverb “Fear three things: the bite of the Tiger, the venom of the Cobra , and the vengeance of the Afghan…”
daveinboca (d0db99) — 8/7/2011 @ 2:43 amDanz – I have a feeling we will be seeing lots of such new lows before this is all over and the teatards retreat back into obscurity.
Spartacvs (2d9449) — 8/7/2011 @ 8:50 amOh, now it’s “teatards”! Have you written to Patterico about the “dumb” idea you claim he is “pushing” about dead SEALs? Or will you run away, insult, or change the subject again?
Because if you are going to insult the host, you should be man enough to do it honestly. Or be a little troll.
Simon Jester (c47db4) — 8/7/2011 @ 8:55 amDana:
To answer your question in a little more detail, a soldier from that unit (82nd ABN 1/508th BN) who is in a fire team, knows nearly nothing about what is actually going on. What such a soldier would know is that posting a comment online from overseas about operational details will get him reduced in rank, if not outright kicked out of the Army. So the short answer to your request is that someone posted something somewhere online about which he knows nothing in a effort to sound smart. My guess is that said individual immediately returned to his online first-person shooter game after making the comment, until him mom called him to dinner.
Semper Fi,
thebruce (24d5e2) — 8/7/2011 @ 9:31 amtheBruce
Aww, look, Sparticles found a playmate. How cute.
Okay, listen up, Danz — how would the “world’s media” know to talk about ST6 unless some loose-lipped, loose-brained idiot member of the administration let slip that identity?
Icy Texan (08b9d8) — 8/7/2011 @ 9:50 amDanz is very slow, just like Spvrty.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/7/2011 @ 9:57 amThe Taliban or Haqqani or whomever these guys were, are not stupid.
They know that if they pin down a small force, we will send in a quick reaction team.
They know it’ll be a Chinook and they know that a big helicopter needs a big landing zone somewhere close to the fight.
Sending groups of guys with RPGs out to hold the flanks against helicopter inserts while the rest of them concentrate on exterminating the surrounded force is simple warfare 101.
So yeah it was an ambush. Of course they’d try to ambush reinforcements.
So what I want to know is how we fought from then on… did we extract the pinned down team? Did we recover all the bodies, equipment etc?
SteveG (cc5dc9) — 8/7/2011 @ 10:06 amIs the whole town now dust and rubble sprinkled with rotting afghans?
Either way, nice to see that not even the deaths of heroes will be passed up for use as cheap, pointless, political point scoring.
Yeah, it’s not like you and your ilk did it all through Dubya’s term. Nope, not once.
Go back to jerking off to children’s cartoons, you stupid little pederast.
Another Chris (c983db) — 8/7/2011 @ 10:11 amRon is anything but a master manipulator. He’s a pathetic figure to me.
Who knows what animates him, but trust me, he is actually not in a right frame of mind.
SarahW (af7312) — 8/7/2011 @ 10:13 amOne can only hope, SteveG, one can only hope since the ROE seem to mitigate against it – the lawyers would not want to see that much collateral damage.
AD-RtR/OS! (91652f) — 8/7/2011 @ 10:15 amSteveG – Any idea how many Chinooks have been shot down by RPG’s so far?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/7/2011 @ 10:31 amNot true. The media had no idea this unit was responsible. Until our government started spiking the football like morons, starting with Biden informing the world what outfit conducted the raid, no one actually knew that.
He did so directly against the request not to, and that request was made for operational security and the safety of these SEALs and their families. And he knows that.
He cannot get off the hook. Biden has never treated foreign policy seriously. He has never treated the war effort seriously. This administration, aside from Gates and actual officers and to be honest, Hillary Clinton, has not treated this war seriously.
They are playing politics with national security, and they deserve blame for that.
Are they committed to this war? Absolutely not. Thus, they need to stop wasting lives there. Instead, they are spiking the football on their single and minor success.
Dustin (b7410e) — 8/7/2011 @ 10:39 amNothing kooky about noting Biden broke operational security and painted a huge bullseye on that unit.
They were so ridiculous in the aftermath of that one raid they created a lot of doubt as to what precisely happened. They undermined the benefits in a part of the world that wants any excuse not to trust us. They dumped the only evidence we had, out of respect for that which deserves none.
They took PC considerations more seriously than the war.
We just need to hold out until 2013 and get a real president who knows how to win wars instead of lose them.
Dustin (b7410e) — 8/7/2011 @ 10:41 amIn so far, as Hamid Gul, former ISI chief, godfather of the Taliban, and one of the first 9/11 denialists, that another ISI head, Gen. Shah was caught funneling money to Daniel Pearl’s captor,
ian cormac (81c5c2) — 8/7/2011 @ 10:55 amanother General, Ali Khan was distributing Hiz-bu-Tahir material, like Delmore Schwartz says, ‘they are still out to get you
daleyrocks
No
I could google it I guess.
I know they shot down the one in 2005 with an rpg and I’ve seen clips of them using rpgs for shooting down the russian made helicopters the contractors use to ferry supplies.
In one, they hunt down the bulgarians that survived and shoot them…
but if I was a warlord, I’d build caves on any knolls around my compound and put 14 yr old boys with rpgs to sleep there every night.
Maybe they can get lucky, pop out and get a 70 ft shot at a hovering chinook.
I’ve met a couple of guys who fly the CH46 for the Marines and they thought that waiting for everyone to get on the ground seemed to take forever.
The thing my friends son likes the most is going out on practice runs with the recon Marines where he isn’t the pilot, but is roping down etc so he gets a feel for what it is like from their angle.
Makes him a better pilot and he thinks it is a ton of fun.
The kid is a great shooter too, so he loves to go out and shoot with them.
I worry about the kid a lot and he is in my prayers every night.
SteveG (cc5dc9) — 8/7/2011 @ 1:28 pmGod bless and protect our troops and bring them home safely.
Summit, NJ (75c9eb) — 8/8/2011 @ 2:20 amThe Telegraph, Monday, 8:34AM BST August 8, 2011, is reporting the following:
US Helicopter ‘Shot down in Taliban Trap’
“Now it’s confirmed that the helicopter was shot down and it was a trap that was set by a Taliban commander,” said the official, speaking on condition of anonymity.
The official said the commander lured US forces to the scene by telling them there was a Taliban meeting taking place there.
The official said that President Hamid Karzai’s US-backed government “thinks this was a retaliation attack for the killing of Osama bin Laden.”
The Taliban did not make such an assertion when they claimed responsibility for the attack.
Citing intelligence “gathered from the area,” the official blamed Qari Tahir, a Taliban commander, for masterminding the attack. He alleged that four Pakistani nationals helped Tahir carry out the strike.
He said the intelligence also showed that the Chinook helicopter was brought down by multiple shots including “modern weapons” without giving further details.
The helicopter was attacked from either side of a valley, the only route to the Taliban-dominated Sayd Abad district in Wardak province where the attack happened late on Friday, the official said.
“The Taliban knew which route the helicopter would take,” he added.
“That’s the only route, so they took position on the either side of the valley on mountains and as the helicopter approached, they attacked it with rockets and other modern weapons. It was brought down by multiple shots,” he said.
ropelight (e21797) — 8/8/2011 @ 6:10 amBetween the usual conflicting and self seving spin put out by the Taliban, the Afghanis and the US Military I doubt we will ever fully know what happened and how/why it happened. But we do know that we have lost brave and skilled Americans who were each priceless to their families and to their country.
elissa (c7c7ff) — 8/8/2011 @ 6:19 amWhy did we even acknowledge SEALs were lost?
Why give the Taliban such a significant PR victory? Why not say the SEALs fell in a training accident? Isn’t that how we usually handle losses of elite forces?
Oh, I get it… the administration leaked the story under the table, so there is no one to blame for yet another huge Opsec breach that harms our country. I read one theory that this helps push economic news off the front page. Would they really take the war effort that unseriously? I think so.
Dustin (b7410e) — 8/8/2011 @ 7:20 amThis detail strikes me as odd:
http://barnhart.biz/index.cfm
ian cormac (81c5c2) — 8/8/2011 @ 7:32 amian, your link is inop.
ropelight (e21797) — 8/8/2011 @ 8:27 amAccording to a friend of mine in attendance, Commander at Buckley Air Base here in Colorado announced last night at the Aviation Ball that the copilot of the CH47 was a Colorado National Guard pilot deployed there out of Buckley AB.
Blessings on his family.
SPQR (26be8b) — 8/8/2011 @ 2:18 pmWhat a scumbag.
Milhouse (9a4c23) — 8/8/2011 @ 4:56 pmPatterico’s reasons for having a bug up his ass about Joe Biden continue to elude me. Biden’a functions have been so obscure that he has been practically invisible.
C’mon people, get your priorities straight. Focus on the real screw-ups in this administration – Obama, Clinton, Holder, Napolitano and Geithner.
Summit, NJ (75c9eb) — 8/9/2011 @ 1:06 amHuh. And here I thought the post made my reasons crystal clear.
Patterico (f724ca) — 8/9/2011 @ 6:44 amPatterico: see #111: I keep trying to get the fellow to be upfront about what are the nature of your “dumb accusations” but he won’t answer. Is this fellow a friend of yours?
Simon Jester (51bacd) — 8/9/2011 @ 6:48 amCrystal.
Troops good – Biden bad.
Use death of troops to try and place Biden in a bad light. All other considerations, including unseemly dragging this tragedy into a domestic political dispute, immaterial. The ends justify the means, very Brightfart.
Spartacvs (2d9449) — 8/9/2011 @ 7:11 amSay, sparticvs. Your game is up, I think.
But stay classy. And what is it with Japan?
Simon Jester (51bacd) — 8/9/2011 @ 7:15 amAlso, you have this amazing abilitynto criticize others others for what you do yourself. You are nothing but a hack. So to speak.
Simon Jester (51bacd) — 8/9/2011 @ 7:17 amAnd here it starts. The spittle-flecked nonsense. Mostly because ol’ sparty knows I’m toying with him and he’s likely to be gone soon. Don’t you “spartacvs”?
The problem for him is this… static IP now. Hmm… if that gets nuked, he’ll have to mix with the hoi polloi at Starbucks to sockpuppet here.
Stashiu3 (44da70) — 8/9/2011 @ 7:18 amYou would have to be a terribly dishonest Hax journolista to write what spurty just did.
JD (b98cae) — 8/9/2011 @ 7:19 amThere’s something past dishonesty from the likes who endorsed Gary Kamiya’s wish that America lose in Iraq, from the start, who ghoulishly slavered
ian cormac (81c5c2) — 8/9/2011 @ 7:23 amat the burn corpses over the Fallujah bridge like
Kos.
Kind of a sick fixation, to keep coming back to play angry games. What kind of person does that? Also, is he allergic to faux-Latin as well as Japanese?
Simon Jester (51bacd) — 8/9/2011 @ 7:24 am