Senate passes Debt Ceiling measure
[Posted by Karl]
The vote was 74-26. 45 Democrats vote yes, 28 Republicans vote yes, 1 Indy votes yes (Lieberman). 19 Republicans vote no, 6 Dems vote no, 1 Indy votes no (Sanders, of course). Weigel has all the no votes.
The measure heads off to The Adult in the Room for signature.
Update: Today’s CNN poll finds 52% of Americans — and an overwhelming majority of independents — disapproves of the deal. Then again, reading the .pdf, 51% disapprove of raising the debt ceiling… and 52% think failing to raise it will cause major problems or a crisis. A large majority — 65% approve of the pending “cuts” in the deal, while another 15% dispprove because the “cuts” don’t go far enough. The establishment media will tout that 60% wanted tax hikes on the rich and corporations, while ignoring the fact that the poll didn’t ask about tax hikes or vanishing tax deductions for everyone else.
–Karl
I disapprove of raising the debt ceiling I think it shows an incredible lack of imagination
for crying out loud we’re supposed to be a resourceful and clever people
happyfeet (a55ba0) — 8/2/2011 @ 10:40 amFine even though I disagree I accept it.
DohBiden (d54602) — 8/2/2011 @ 10:50 amWe need a constitutional amendment that says tax hikes cannot be delayed more than six months after legislated.
One of the most odious things our legislature does is pass things they know people do not want, but delay them until after the election.
Dustin (b7410e) — 8/2/2011 @ 10:54 amSo now the man-child petulant savior has to sign the biggest debt ceiling limit increase in history, so he can pay the bills for his orgy of spending, at least $2,500,000,000,000 in additional deficit spending. They agree to only go into further debt by approx $17,000,000,000,000 instead of $21,000,000,000,000. Yippee.
JD (d56362) — 8/2/2011 @ 11:00 amRaise taxes on trust fund disbursements! (For funds over 25 years old.)
LarryD (feb78b) — 8/2/2011 @ 11:01 amOKay, here’s the deal, we’ve pushed the Big Red One ashore onto the beaches of North Africa, but we have a very long way to go to the Gates of Berlin.
AD-RtR/OS! (cf2da4) — 8/2/2011 @ 11:08 amNext year: Sicily!
And, need I remind you, that the key to Sicily is Messina, and control of la Casa Bianca.
Why on earth? Just because you think the majority of beneficiaries are lefties?!
Milhouse (ea66e3) — 8/2/2011 @ 11:10 amHow would that work with a cut that expires?
Milhouse (ea66e3) — 8/2/2011 @ 11:11 amI think he was spitballing the idea, Milhouse. His larger point was that it is cowardly of Barcky and their ilk to push out effective dates until after their next election, so as to avoid the known outcome of said policies.
JD (6e25b4) — 8/2/2011 @ 11:23 amWhat we need is TEA Party control of Congress and Sarah Palin in the White House.
ropelight (463353) — 8/2/2011 @ 11:34 amComment by Milhouse — 8/2/2011 @ 11:11 am
No more temporary tax rates.
AD-RtR/OS! (cf2da4) — 8/2/2011 @ 11:39 amAny and all changes to the code would be permanent, and would be implemented 90 days after signing by the President.
Comment by ropelight — 8/2/2011 @ 11:34 am
Now you’re talking!
AD-RtR/OS! (cf2da4) — 8/2/2011 @ 11:40 amAgreed.
Milhouse (ea66e3) — 8/2/2011 @ 11:43 amSo if we have an unusual expense we can’t fund it with a temporary tax surcharge that automatically expires when it’s expected no longer to be needed? And if we have an unexpected windfall we can’t give it back to the taxpayer by means of a one-year tax cut? That doesn’t sound reasonable.
A few years ago my co-op installed new windows, which we funded by a $50 increase in everyone’s monthly maintenance payments, for five years. Once the windows are paid off, the surcharge disappears. Why can’t Congress do that too?
Milhouse (ea66e3) — 8/2/2011 @ 11:48 am“There is nothing more permanent than a temporary government program.”
It it is an emergency, Congress can deal with it; and when the emergency concludes, Congress can deal with that too.
That is the way you make Congress Members accountable to their constituents.
I would remind you of the on-off-on again-off again-and what is the status now – temporary surtax on wire communications (telegraph & telephone) passed to pay for the Spanish-American War.
AD-RtR/OS! (cf2da4) — 8/2/2011 @ 12:00 pmGood point.
Dustin (b7410e) — 8/2/2011 @ 12:07 pm“…give it back to the taxpayer by means of a one-year tax cut…”
The IRS is perfectly capable of computing a refund to every individual taxpayer based on their last reported return, and sending them a check.
The one constant in all of this is the complexity of the existing tax-code, and the constant fiddling with it by the Congress.
AD-RtR/OS! (cf2da4) — 8/2/2011 @ 12:24 pmBusiness, and individuals, would like a little stability so that futures can be planned.
The tax-code needs to be drastically simplified, which is the beauty of The Flat/Fair Tax schemes,
and would be even better if A-16 was repealed and replaced by a National Sales Tax at the retail level.
Hey, whatever happened to the mystery/crime of teh century and the saga of Betty/Veronica? Has that been solved? Or did we just decide to forget about it?
Monkeytoe (5234ab) — 8/2/2011 @ 12:36 pmMonkeytoe, Koam has a very good synopsis.
Nikki Reid is Betty, but Nikki Reid is also not a real person. Anyway, it’s still being discussed in that thread.
Dustin (b7410e) — 8/2/2011 @ 12:44 pmMonkeyfingers, direct your eyes to the top right column headed “Recent Comments,” look down the list till you find “Weinergate.” Your playmates are waiting.
ropelight (463353) — 8/2/2011 @ 12:46 pmNewsBusted’s Jody Miller remarked that since the NFL strike is over, professional football players are the only Americans back at work since Obama took over.
She also observed that an agreement increasing the debt ceiling had been reached after weeks of in-fighting, bickering, name calling, and confusion which would now allow both political parties to pretend for years to come they had cut spending.
ropelight (463353) — 8/2/2011 @ 12:47 pm21- guffaws!
AD-RtR/OS! (cf2da4) — 8/2/2011 @ 1:07 pmI think I have figured out why Obama’s numbers keep doing so poorly…
Throughout this whole issue, the polls have said that the majority on Americans a) do not want the debt ceiling increased and b) want spending cuts.
During that same time, Obama and others people of the far left who can’t help but talk when they see a microphone have been loudly proclaiming “You see those TeaParty people over there? They are holding all of this up because they refuse to all for an increase in the debt ceiling and demand budget cuts…”
It’s like, what do you think you would do if you went to a car dealer, said “I want to buy a red car. Doesn’t matter what kind of car, but it has to be red…” and the salesman responded with “Red? we don’t sell red cars here, unlike that dealership down the street…”
It’s like Obama is trying to remind people what group in Congress is trying to do what the American people actually want.
I say we just let the empty suit keep talking…
Scott Jacobs (effddf) — 8/2/2011 @ 1:23 pmMessina, Scott, we’ve got to take Messina!
AD-RtR/OS! (cf2da4) — 8/2/2011 @ 1:25 pm“And, need I remind you, that the key to Sicily is Messina, and control of la Casa Bianca.”
Hmmm, I don’t think that Lee Marvin had the depth to have said that. George C. Scott maybe, but not Lee Marvin. Which movie was your source, Patton or The Big Red One?
Summit, N.J. (75c9eb) — 8/2/2011 @ 2:04 pmNot to detract from a good point, though.
Summit, N.J. (75c9eb) — 8/2/2011 @ 2:24 pmThese fascists[Fascists are left wing not right wing] will usher in a 3rd world where you have to eat dung beetles to survive.
DohBiden (d54602) — 8/2/2011 @ 3:08 pmShockingly (to me) Moody’s says the USA can keep the AAA rating because this deal is that awesome.
Dustin (b7410e) — 8/2/2011 @ 3:15 pmLink to WSJ RE: Above. Seems pretty newsworthy/odd.
Dustin (b7410e) — 8/2/2011 @ 3:16 pmThey make it too obvious, don’t they Dustin, Milo Minderbender ran less of a scam.
ian cormac (81c5c2) — 8/2/2011 @ 3:17 pmSummit: Both, actually.
AD-RtR/OS! (cf2da4) — 8/2/2011 @ 3:32 pmAnd Scott did say that (or words to that effect, to Malden re Messina, in Patton.
Comment by ian cormac — 8/2/2011 @ 3:17 pm
Ah, another movie heard from in the Med-Theatre.
AD-RtR/OS! (cf2da4) — 8/2/2011 @ 3:34 pmMy thoughts exactly. The show must go on.
Dustin (b7410e) — 8/2/2011 @ 3:44 pmObama is the only one who can save us………….puke.
DohBiden (d54602) — 8/2/2011 @ 4:12 pmI’m not sure this contradicts my prior link, but it makes more sense to me.
The hard fact is that lending money to the USA is not as safe as it was ten years ago.
Dustin (b7410e) — 8/2/2011 @ 4:25 pmThe LA Times interviewed Gov. Brown of the State of Moonbeam:
“This budget reminded me of doctrines, from back when I was in the seminary,” he said. “If you’re 15 minutes late to church, you could burn in hell. That’s how Republicans are about taxes. There’s a fanaticism. They are deeply stuck in a no-tax identity that is almost now, on the national level, a religion. ” ‘No taxes’ is a central dogma in the new Republican church. You can’t deviate,” he said. “They won’t burn you at the stake, but they’ll recall you.” He also had choice words for Democrats, who he said increasingly vote in a bloc on nearly everything in the Legislature. “It’s getting to be lock step … [and] nobody up here has the courage or cojones to do anything about it,” he said.
Mark Lacter of LAObserved laments that there aren’t enough politicians like him anymore. Thank God.
AZ Bob (7d2a2c) — 8/2/2011 @ 4:44 pm“This budget reminded me of doctrines, from back when I was in the seminary…If you’re 15 minutes late to church, you could burn in hell. That’s how Republicans are about taxes.”–Moonbeam
Republicans are saying that if you’re 15 minutes late on your taxes, you’ll burn in hell???
That Moonbeam guy gets wackier by the day.
Dave Surls (28f866) — 8/2/2011 @ 4:53 pmNote to self:
Never be late to a meeting with Jesuits.
Dave Surls (28f866) — 8/2/2011 @ 4:55 pmmanic depression
ColonelHaiku (38526a) — 8/2/2011 @ 5:00 pmcapture colonel’s soul look for
true conservative
Dave – Unlike liberals, most Jesuits I know are smart.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/2/2011 @ 5:04 pmron brynaert… you fool, you.
ColonelHaiku (38526a) — 8/2/2011 @ 5:12 pm“Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.”
Don’t fight it. Embrace it, people!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9buEI8SgwU
elissa (29c534) — 8/2/2011 @ 5:12 pmPolls on this have been strange. Just all over the place. I have seen polls that say that 68% want a deal..I have seen polls that say 57% of Republicans want a deal. I have seen polls that say that most Americans want tax increases for the rich and most Americans want spending cuts too. I have seen polls that say that more than 60% of Americans think that the GOP has been irresponsible. I have also seen polls that say most Americans do not approve of the way Barack Obama has handled this issue.
The truth is I doubt that any deal they came up with would actually get a strong majority support. I know some conservatives are not going to be happy with any increase in the debt ceiling, but I think that a failure to raise the debt ceiling, would simply create more problems. I wish they could have gotten more cuts, but considering the fact that the Republicans only control one chamber of Congress, I would say they did a pretty good job of forcing concessions from the Democrats. Like most compromises, most people are not going to be crazy about it…sort of a lesser of two evils sort of thing.
Terrye (007c3b) — 8/2/2011 @ 5:31 pmCould you outline for us one actual cut?
JD (109425) — 8/2/2011 @ 5:35 pmI doubt most polled really understand the details of the deal. I wouldn’t be surprised if most of the Members who voted on the deal barely understand it either.
So when they are asked if they approve of a deal they don’t understand, and most already disapprove of government lately, most will say they don’t approve.
Also, most conservatives will say they don’t approve of the GOP performance because they want more cuts sooner. It’s hard to imagine more than a small percentage are actually happy with what the GOP was able to do. They might be satisfied that this poor result is the best we can hope for at this stage, but very few will say they are actually satisfied with that.
It’s not a failure if they don’t raise it. It’s not an accomplishment. Raising the debt ceiling is the failure. Obama himself explained why. We needed leadership to prevent this. Obama’s party had 100% of the government for two years and that’s when the debt climbed the fastest.
We have failed, and are poorer as a country, and raising the debt ceiling makes us even poorer. It’s our acceptance of how much we are willing to steal from our children. It is a failure we are willing to steal more than ever.
It’s not about preventing problems. It’s about pushing those problems off until after the election. “Failing” to raise the debt ceiling would simply force us to deal with the problem now. The sooner, the easier it will be.
Sorry, I just don’t like the way this issue has been framed. It bugs the hell out of me.
Dustin (b7410e) — 8/2/2011 @ 5:41 pmThat’s another thing. The government will be bigger next year, and bigger the year after, and bigger the year after.
We didn’t really cut a damn thing. It’s nothing short of media malpractice.
Dustin (b7410e) — 8/2/2011 @ 5:42 pmAll polls before it was passed and also after it was passed said Americans hated Obamacare. No discrepancy among polls on that one. No mistake what “the folks” were saying then.
elissa (29c534) — 8/2/2011 @ 5:44 pmI just got my invitation to an Obama campaign event tomorrow. An excerpt follows:
“Tomorrow — Wednesday, August 3rd — volunteers will gather at campaign house meetings across the country to continue laying the groundwork for the 2012 campaign.
This kind of organizing work matters more than ever. Now that President Obama has reached a compromise with congressional leaders to meet our financial obligations and reduce our debt, it’s up to us to get the word out about how important this agreement is and why it’s crucial to have a leader like President Obama in office.”
Funny, I read nothing in the bill he signed today which actually reduces our debt by a single dollar. In fact, our debt is projected to continue climbing.
This is just another example of Obama believing Americans are stupid, or at least those who intend to vote for him.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/2/2011 @ 5:44 pmdaley–please assure us you are going to that meeting.
elissa (29c534) — 8/2/2011 @ 5:46 pmnanny state sheeple
ColonelHaiku (38526a) — 8/2/2011 @ 5:47 pmin a perfect world queue up
like lambs to slaughter
elissa – Do you want to attend in my place?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/2/2011 @ 5:49 pmobama loving
ColonelHaiku (38526a) — 8/2/2011 @ 5:49 pmsheeple with heads up asses
it’s d-a-a-a-a-ark up in there
elissa – More from the invitation:
“At this week’s house meetings, we’ll discuss the best way to keep bringing new folks into the political process in our own communities and neighborhoods. It’s important that folks hear about the President’s accomplishments from their own friends and neighbors — from forging this new bipartisan debt compromise to reforming Wall Street, repealing “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell,” and passing the historic Affordable Care Act.
Wednesday also happens to be the day before the President’s 50th birthday — and our work to build this campaign through this kind of solid grassroots organizing is the sort of gift he’ll appreciate most.”
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/2/2011 @ 5:51 pmSorry, daley. Sox game 🙂
elissa (29c534) — 8/2/2011 @ 5:51 pmgnashing of ‘rat teeth
ColonelHaiku (38526a) — 8/2/2011 @ 5:52 pmrending of ‘rat garments is
music to my ears
daley, that ‘reduce debt’ bit is quite a bold lie. You’re right. It assumes the reader is stupid. The author had to know better.
‘Our obligations’ mostly means crap spending that we don’t really need, as without the deal we’d have paid actual obligations without much trouble. That’s a lesser lie, though.
They want their voters to think Tea Parties are for terrorists (so no more moderates and Reagan democrats go to them and see the truth) and that Obama is a great leader cutting spending unlike that nasty old Bush who forced him to spend so much when the democrats ran all the show for two years.
Dustin (b7410e) — 8/2/2011 @ 5:52 pmIf Dems can’t turn that to their advantage in the coming election year then they don’t deserve to win. Excepting among Fox viewers of course, they have a history of simply reversing poll numbers unfavorable to the GOP over there.
Spartacvs (2d9449) — 8/2/2011 @ 6:01 pmKeep dreaming, hooker…
Scott Jacobs (effddf) — 8/2/2011 @ 6:02 pmObama hunka
elissa (29c534) — 8/2/2011 @ 6:03 pmhunka burning love still to
kool ade drinkers
You’re right. And they can’t and they don’t.
They promised to cut the deficit in half if Americans trusted them with power. How can Obama win against people he isn’t running against? He really is running against his own record. 2012 is a referendum on what Obama promised to be able to accomplished. He is a miserable failure. The GOP might yet screw this up, but if they do not, 2012 may be one of those years that completely rewrites the map.
2010 kinda was.
Dustin (b7410e) — 8/2/2011 @ 6:08 pm“Sorry, daley. Sox game :)”
elissa – I’m sure you are devastated!
They are looking for people to host meetings in their own homes. I would be more than happy to sign you up if you wish.
Me, I’ve already risked spontaneously combusting by attending some of my Representative’s functions as well as the Politburo meetings in the town in which I live. Although my life insurance is paid up, I’ve got some things left on my bucket list and I’m not sure I want to risk a room full of Obamatards. I’m surrounded by them as it is.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/2/2011 @ 6:10 pmSpartacvs is a liar and loser like those who insist the Oslo terrorist is a right-wing extremist who hated muslims despite not going after them and calling Vlaams Belang an racist organization.
DohBiden (d54602) — 8/2/2011 @ 6:11 pm“Dems…don’t deserve to win.”–Sparta-doofus
Turns out, if you do a little selective editing, you can actually force Sparty to make sense.
Dave Surls (28f866) — 8/2/2011 @ 6:18 pmDaley–I understand. Best friends in east Wilmette just got moved into comrade Jan’s district with the new map. They are beside themselves. They may relocate to Texas in a year or two for their health.
elissa (29c534) — 8/2/2011 @ 6:31 pmSparticles is hanging out at the Dept of Wishful Thinking
Icy Texan (e3eab9) — 8/2/2011 @ 10:13 pmQuestion: Does anyone know the projected spending numbers for FY2011 and FY2012, before and after this deal?
Milhouse (ea66e3) — 8/2/2011 @ 10:23 pmMilhouse,
I don’t know if this is what you asked for but:
The bolded section matches the information provided in Table 3 on the last page of this CBO report. Look for the row labeled “Total Effect on the Deficit Excluding Provisions Related to the Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction.” The numbers are:
2012 — 21 billion
2013 — 42 billion
2014 — 59 billion
2015 — 75 billion
2016 — 87 billion
2017 — 99 billion
2018 — 112 billion
2019 — 126 billion
2020 — 141 billion
2021 — 156 billion
Total, 2012-2021 — 917 billion
DRJ (a83b8b) — 8/2/2011 @ 11:05 pmI’m struck by how all of the Beltway talking heads were predicting a financial implosion if the Debt Ceiling wasn’t raised and some accomodation wasn’t worked out between the Congress and the WH…
Well, we got a deal and the Wizards of Wall Street said…
DJIA…11866.62…-265.87…-2.19% (Tuesday Close)
and, it was off on Monday also.
That Barry, he just makes us all feel better about everything.
AD-RtR/OS! (cf2da4) — 8/2/2011 @ 11:21 pmNo, I’m looking for the total dollar amount the fedgov is expected to spend in FY2011, and the total that it is now expected to spend in FY2012, taking into account that the latter number will be $21B lower than the “baseline”. Essentially what I want to know is how much of an increase the 2012 baseline provided for; I’m sure it’s more than $21B, but I’d like to know how much more.
Milhouse (ea66e3) — 8/3/2011 @ 12:52 amOver the next two years, Reid, Boehner, Obama, and company will take a dollar from your kids and claim they are giving back three pennies, and they do it again 2.4 trillion more times. The three pennies will add up to 65 billion (round up a little) savings in two years.
And the three pennies are lies.
Milhouse asks specifically what the difference in 2012’s expenditures will be from 2011. Only time will tell, but 2011’s were huge. I wouldn’t trust a thing written on it today.
Dustin (b7410e) — 8/3/2011 @ 3:33 amWe’ll know how much the Govt will spend in FY-2011 when the Treasury releases the National Debt figure in November of this year;
AD-RtR/OS! (3c6199) — 8/3/2011 @ 8:09 amfor, in the immortal words of Princess Nancy:
You have to spend the money to find out how much you have!
Consider …
John Q Public has an annual income of $50,000 per year, but is currently spending at $83,200 per year. Living in with him is his father who trusted him with $56,100 to invest, but John Q Public has spent it all, so he must repay as his father needs it. Along comes accountant, Mr. T. Party, who tells representatives of John Q Public that this can’t go on.
Mr. T. Party is obviously a “terrorist” for not letting John Q Public spend more ?
Makes perfect sense to me.
A. Weiner (d1c681) — 8/3/2011 @ 11:39 amA Weiner, that’s an excellent way to explain it.
Dustin (b7410e) — 8/3/2011 @ 11:45 amJeez. They’re going to go through the whole new increase in the debt ceiling in the next few months. For them, it probably a feature – not a bug – to max out the credit card early in a last desperate attempt to make people think the economy is OK before the election. I guess from their point of view: why not: if it works, they might stay in power; if not, it is someone else’s problem.
John Lynch (8f4b4f) — 8/3/2011 @ 11:58 amSorry. Ref: “Prop up Equities with QE III”
John Lynch (8f4b4f) — 8/3/2011 @ 12:10 pmESAD!
Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks ! (a63c7d) — 9/15/2011 @ 9:42 am