U.S. Launches Missile Attacks on Libya
From NBC:
The United States launched its first missile attack on Libyan air defenses on Saturday, NBC News confirmed, as America and its allies began military action to enforce a no-fly zone.
. . . .
Obama declared once again that the United States would not send ground forces to Libya, though he said he is “deeply aware” of the risks of taking any military action.
It’s always good to reassure the other guy of the limits of your resolve. Well done, Barry.
As I just noted over at PW, Hamas just joined the coalition… just wait until Hezbollah gets onboard.
SteveG (cc5dc9) — 3/19/2011 @ 12:52 pmWow, doing the right thing in the most inept manner possible.
Why in the world would you tell your opponent what you won’t do?
Incredible.
Ag80 (efea1d) — 3/19/2011 @ 12:56 pmdidn’t obamawhore Colin Powell once say that if you’re gonna do this sort of thing you shouldn’t be half-assed about it? I think he did it was on the tv they called it the “Powell Doctrine” but I don’t think bumble is very familiar with this idea.
He should read up.
happyfeet (ab5779) — 3/19/2011 @ 12:56 pmAny employees of Libyan aspirin factories should run for cover, immediately.
JÐ (b98cae) — 3/19/2011 @ 1:01 pmSo where are the anti-war people to get all up in arms about this?
No they only get all up in arms when it is a Republican but when Mr.Anti-war goes to war it is peachy keen because he is a dem.
DohBiden (984d23) — 3/19/2011 @ 1:07 pmQuagmire! Quagmire!
SteveG (cc5dc9) — 3/19/2011 @ 1:10 pmThis belated action by the coalition will ensure that neither side wins. Libya will be a divided country for a long time.
norcal (502ad3) — 3/19/2011 @ 1:13 pmI have no idea what’s actually gonna happen I just know how it will be reported.
happyfeet (ab5779) — 3/19/2011 @ 1:15 pmThey told me if I voted for John McCain we’d have more undeclared wars in the Middle East, blah, blah, fricken blah.
Fritz (ac48cc) — 3/19/2011 @ 1:17 pmQadhafy will probably lob some mustard gas into Benghazi and then act like the rebels got it from al-Qaeda and mishandled it
SteveG (cc5dc9) — 3/19/2011 @ 1:20 pmI just hope the French are not so inept as the first time they tangled with Col. Klink.
The Sanity Inspector (ef5d4d) — 3/19/2011 @ 1:40 pmThe probable intent of the “no ground troops” statement is to forestall potential criticism from the Arab world that this is an invasion to control resources, rather than an effort to constrain the ability of a tyrant to harm his own people (and, ultimately, to help them bring the regime down). No doubt Obama also wants to forestall domestic critics from both the right and left who fear another foreign involvement that will drain American blood and treasure. However, this is a case where I agree with you — it would be better to make Gadhafi wonder how far we’re willing to go.
Angeleno (4e9907) — 3/19/2011 @ 1:53 pmAnything that Obama undertakes will be done halfheartedly and incompetently. We know that.
The rest is just 2012 campaigning.
Mike K (8f3f19) — 3/19/2011 @ 1:55 pmOver at Mother Jones, David Corn is arguing that Obama’s intervention in Libya is actually somehow “exorcises the ghost of George W. Bush.” You know, because this time we are letting the British, the French, and the Arab League take the lead. This I guess is the perfect encapsulation of the leftist post-American mindset. If you click on the link to read Corn’s blatherings, I recommend that you scroll down and the read the comments from readers. Suffice to say, the nutty left seems to be pretty sharply split on this issue.
JVW (615582) — 3/19/2011 @ 1:57 pmSo Mr.antiwar going to war somehow means he is trying to undo the bush warmachine?
DohBiden (984d23) — 3/19/2011 @ 2:06 pmNo blood for oil!
BDJ (72b0ed) — 3/19/2011 @ 2:09 pmWhat’s our exit strategy?
Is it a quagmire yet?
Silly you it is only a quagmire when bush does it.
DohBiden (984d23) — 3/19/2011 @ 2:18 pmWe are back to the Clinton era with foreign policy as social work. Libya has no strategic significance for us, therefore it is OK to attack them. Clinton bombed the hell out of Serbian decoys from 30,000 feet and Obama will likely do the same.
Lyndon Johnson botched the Vietnam War but at least he cared about the military and knew what war was like. He appears in the 1942 book, “Queens Die Proudly” as a Navy LT Commander who was soon called back to Congress by FDR.
Obama does not even know how to pronounce corpsman. That would be a problem if he ever needed one but there has never been a chance of that.
Mike K (8f3f19) — 3/19/2011 @ 2:39 pmoperation bully-needs-a-timeout is well underway you can tell cause of the enhanced self-esteem you’re feeling!
Has will.i.am writtened a song yet?
happyfeet (ab5779) — 3/19/2011 @ 2:39 pmThe latest reports say 110 Tomahawk cruise missiles were launched by US and UK surface vessels and submarines. At a cost of $569,000/Tomahawk that means that $62.6MM was fired off in less than an hour today. Where are the liberals protesting this could have paid for 12 teachers and a union rep?
in_awe (44fed5) — 3/19/2011 @ 2:42 pmkadaffy bad bad bad boy
you make us feel so good
when we bomb your hood yeah
happyfeet (ab5779) — 3/19/2011 @ 2:44 pmhand motions to follow… not a one of you should ever doubt my commitment to sparkle motion
happyfeet (ab5779) — 3/19/2011 @ 2:45 pmMuammar Gaddafi and the sudanese president are friends so can we please stop calling Al-Bashir a conservative and a right-winger.
DohBiden (984d23) — 3/19/2011 @ 2:49 pmSomewhere, Darth Cheney is smiling.
Old Coot (0eca93) — 3/19/2011 @ 3:04 pmIf American personnel do enter Libya, I hope they find Abdelbeset Ali Mohmed al Megrahi.
DRJ (fdd243) — 3/19/2011 @ 3:20 pmDRJ, you know very well he had only six months to live.]!
Mike K (8f3f19) — 3/19/2011 @ 3:44 pmActually, to know that we won’t send ground troops, Qadafi only needed to read the UN resolution, which explicitly says “no ground troops”. Which was apparently a sop to the Arab League, the Russians, Germans, and Chinese. (I forget where I read yesterday someone’s snark that the Germans were probably remembering the last time they had an army in Libya.)
Comment by in_awe — 3/19/2011 @ 2:42 pm
You’ve got the early lead to win this thread.
kishnevi (b40a74) — 3/19/2011 @ 4:19 pmOur Potus is “deeply aware”?
And you all said that he would never grow into the job. Oh, ye of little faith!
Icy Texan (cec02e) — 3/19/2011 @ 4:29 pmThe rest is just 2012 campaigning–MikeK
It will be interesting to see how our Media Darlings will play this up knowing that we are on the cusp of the 2012 race. Obama will now be portayed as a combo of FDR, Wasington and Lincoln for his daring-do. Andrea Mitchell, Mr. Tingles, Anderson Cooper they will all be working overtime to promote BO.
BT (74cbec) — 3/19/2011 @ 4:33 pmObumbler really riled the hornet’s nest now. He has Farrakhan pissed off and asking who the hell he thinks he is. No blood for oil! Where are our interests! Anti-muslim genocide! But I suppose the Messiah may well end up with another Nobel Peace Prize. And what was the reason for rushing into war with all those NCAA games and golf rounds yet to be played. And now the media is painting O as not a socialist because Argentine protesting says he is a dirty capitalist pig. Hey, why don’t we cut off the sugar subsidies and buy Brazilian sugar cane. I think that has more efficacy for making energy than corn anyway.
Calypso Louie Farrakhan (798aba) — 3/19/2011 @ 4:36 pm“Well done, Barry.”
You mean well done, Mr. President. Fixed that for ‘ya.
Oh yes, crow and bitters is now being served on the mezzanine at the American Enterprise Institute’s cafeteria to bellyaching conservatives– and for dessert, humble pie. Master Gingrich, Master Hannity, Master Beck and right wing wackos et al., your tables are ready. Tuck in.
Memo to Muammar
Subject: Tonight’s movie
It’s Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. Was a big hit 42 years ago- just like you. You’ll love how it ends. And FYI, that ain’t no straw skimmer comin’ at you it’s a Tomahawk.
DCSCA (9d1bb3) — 3/19/2011 @ 4:57 pmWar for OIL!!! Another unprovoked unilateral imperialist attack on the brown-skinned people of the world!!! Fierce moral urgency of change!!! Bring the troops home now!!!
Chuck Roast (d84e7c) — 3/19/2011 @ 5:18 pmDCSCA
Crow and humble pie for what? That Obama can look thoughtful and wise while doing nothing, then agrees to do something after the French are ready to do military intervention? While at the same time trying to appease the political interests at home by promising no American boots on the ground?
My goodness, please tell me exactly what we were wrong about that we need to eat humble pie.
As far as the money for those missiles, at least it is going for something that needs to be manufactured, and not simply funding an otherwise insufficient public union pension fund.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 3/19/2011 @ 5:33 pmLet’s see…
Foreign dictator killing his own people but no threat to the US.
Not in possession of Weapons of Mass Destruction.
Lots of oil in the country.
I have no trouble supporting this, but you’d think the lefties out there would be opposed.
Some chump (e84e27) — 3/19/2011 @ 5:37 pmI actually saw a lefty somewhere defending the President’s actions because it’s what the right would want him to do. And he was serious.
They live in an upside down world.
Let me see if I can find the link. It’s hilarious. It’s at #31.
Ag80 (efea1d) — 3/19/2011 @ 6:01 pmDisco Stu got some bad acid.
Icy Texan (2f4d96) — 3/19/2011 @ 6:14 pmQhadaffi putting innocent children around SAM and radar sites in 3…2…1…
We have no dog in the fight.
Missed the part where Obama said he would have an emergency joint session of Congress to vote on a resolution authorizing this this deployment.Lobbing bombs at people who have not attacked us and are of marginal antional interest(even if you consider Lockerbee, no immediate threat)would be consistent with “war”. the Constitution even has a provision about this. Apaprently the “living Constitution” allows King Obam to do what ever he wants with armed forces who swear to defend the United States and the Constitution, not the UN, not the Arab League, not what ever pet cause the left takes a shine to this week.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. But to be a hypocrite you have to have principals and ideals in the first place.
Bugg (996c34) — 3/19/2011 @ 6:43 pmAlmost three years. Incompetent economics, failed socialist policies, racist administration,glaring indecision, the most blatant lying ever witnessed, and monumental stupidity on top of all the rest. Can we now admit that we elected and are being non-lead by President Clusterfu*k?
MikeD (dc34fa) — 3/19/2011 @ 7:07 pmHmmm, I seem to have missed the emergency joint session as well.
Still, France has not surrendered yet, so there is reason to be hopeful.
prmetime (f65600) — 3/19/2011 @ 7:15 pmOh, MD. Read up on DCSCA’s, um, unusual antics on this site. I’m glad you wrote what you did, but it won’t matter to the Walter Mitty of Patterico’s place.
Simon Jester (7d9322) — 3/19/2011 @ 7:18 pmBill Clinton bombed Kosovo for two months then declared victory because his sycophants advised that he needed to win a war to be regarded as a “great” President. Obama knows his time is running out. He declared war then left the country. Hillary gets the blame if this fails, Barry gets the credit if it succeeds. What an inspired leader!!! Let’s all nation build!!!!
Chuck Roast (d84e7c) — 3/19/2011 @ 7:21 pmOh, I know Simon, it’s just that sometimes there are comments so ludicrous that even they should have known better than making them.
Not in possession of Weapons of Mass Destruction
(cough) And who is responsible for that???
Over at PowerLine they point out that Obama was down in Brazil, stating how wonderful it is that Brazil is tapping oil reserves, so they can sell oil and we can have a trustworthy supply…
No, the PowerLine guys usually don’t make stuff up, but it is hard to believe, isn’t it??
Temple took SDSU #2 seed to double overtime, too bad they couldn’t do it. Fran Dunphy is a good guy. One of my sons went to a B-ball camp of his one summer.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 3/19/2011 @ 7:50 pmWisconsin Badgers had enough people not protesting not only to play basketball and win, but win the semi’s to be in tomorrow’s NCAA women’s ice hockey championships (again). If they win they will be 37-2-2 and break their record of 36 wins in a season (this year is the third time they’ve hit it). Mark Johnson is another great coach and person. He would never take-over the Capitol building.
Oh, I know, MD. I was just marveling at the superficial parallels between Iraq and Libya, and wondering why the lefties aren’t getting their panties into a bunch about the whole thing.
Me, I will support any President during military action. Politics stops at the water’s edge, after all. I just expect some intellectual honesty from the left (vainly, I know).
Some chump (e84e27) — 3/19/2011 @ 8:00 pmI tried watching some newsdouche named “Don” on the CNN and it was lame lame lame “Don” for some reason thought I would think a loop of anti-aircraft tracer fire was super-engaging
plus their graphics were lame they just had “Target: Libya” on their generic graphic and they kept pushing the idea that bumble was “working” to limit US involvement in “Target: Libya” – they didn’t note that this limited involvement thing was something bumble had a lot successfully achieved for about a month now and that today he was actually taking a step back from this goal
That would have been a lot for “Don” to process though he mostly liked seeing the lights shooting into the sky
happyfeet (ab5779) — 3/19/2011 @ 9:01 pmActually, a commenter over at Pajamasmedia apparently *nailed* it …
Take a look here …
Alasdair (205079) — 3/19/2011 @ 9:03 pmWhy does Bill Maher get away with calling a woman a twat?
Why does Obama get away with being a warmongerer?
Hint-Because they are liberals[Not classic liberals.]
DohBiden (984d23) — 3/19/2011 @ 9:50 pmSome Chump-
I wasn’t really asking you the question, because I know you know. I just thought I would point it out for others passing by.
Yes, intellectual honesty is a wonderful thing when you can find it.
46.Why does Bill Maher get away with calling a woman a ****
Because people who have forgotten how to be embarrassed over something degrading don’t care, moral honey badgers, if you will- they can get bit by something poisonous and shake it off.
I wonder if he has children…
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 3/19/2011 @ 10:01 pmEven i wouldn’t call a woman a twat.
The presidunce on the other hand…
DohBiden (984d23) — 3/19/2011 @ 10:06 pmJohn McCain said yesterday, that had the Obum people moved on Ghaddafi a month ago, the could have done just a few things which would have made a higher level of military force unneccessary. Now, they are going to have to send ground troops to topple him. Well SOMEONE has to anyway. All this is due to Obama’s completely incompetent administration, including Hillary. The most brilliant man and woman in the world.
DV (996c34) — 3/19/2011 @ 11:07 pmI have due and genuine respect for the British and French air forces. The AWACs/controller support they’ll get from the U.S. Navy assets in the area will enhance their potency. It would not surprise me if we’ve covertly contributed something more than just Tomahawk strikes to the attrition of Kadafi’s radars and air defenses. Our pilots and naval aviators train and interact with our allies in peacetime exercises, and although the past few years haven’t given any other country’s aviators anything remotely close to the experience our own have racked up since 9/11/01, our allies’ air forces would be formidable against any in the world (save, of course, our own). The Brits in particular enforced the Iraqi no-fly with us from after the first Gulf War up until, and then throughout, the second.
But …
What’s going to happen if Kadafi shoots down a British or French pilot and we see a repeat of “Black Hawk Down”?
What if that’s due to Obama keeping our aviators — undoubtedly the best trained and equipped in the history of this solar system — on the sidelines?
Beldar (a197ec) — 3/19/2011 @ 11:40 pm(‘Cause he’s doing that for votes in the U.S., you know.)
Beldar (a197ec) — 3/19/2011 @ 11:41 pmBeldar,
according to the BBC 19 US Fighter jets led the first wave of the raid
The French air force gave a good account of itself during WWII, in poor quality aircraft they shot down an astonishing number of german fighters giving england a decent chance to blunt the luftwaffe. They also had a hand in training the Israeli airforce.
EricPWJohnson (58b455) — 3/20/2011 @ 4:03 amFrom the AP: Gary Maveal, 57, a law professor from Detroit who was visiting the city for a conference, said he feared the Libyan attacks would become a “quagmire.”
Why not a morass? It’d make a great chant, and I’m sure every protester from the field of education would get the spelling right for the signage.
Later on in the article Charles Rangel shows up… maybe with $5000 in petrodollars stuffed in the sole of each shoe… and is noted as opining that presidents should not be allowed to undertake military action. (I think he meant without the consent of congress)
He probably just got a few payments made on the Dominican too.
Sean Penn must be absolutely torn here,,, bailing his mental skiff with a beer cup, as his mentor Chavez gets off and visiting scholar Ayers has to be dreaming of nail bombing a Calvary Chapel.
And then the speech (with Rio as a backdrop) hurried a bit so the president can get back to watching basketball, the speech that makes one thing perfectly clear every time: Make no mistake, being the leader of the free world 24/7 is a bitch that he doesn’t want to handle, it’s the perks that he is here for.
SteveG (cc5dc9) — 3/20/2011 @ 4:22 amSo the same dickhead that did everything he could to undercut President Bush when Bush was directing our campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan is now going to have us fight the Libyans, eh?
Typical.
Left wingers are scum.
Democrats are scum.
The Great Black Dope makes me want to vomit.
Too bad we can’t have a war where the Democrats and Libyans exterminate each other, while no one else gets hurt. That would be a war I’d support 100%.
Dave Surls (ef6671) — 3/20/2011 @ 4:54 am“The French air force gave a good account of itself during WWII”
The mind boggles.
Dave Surls (ef6671) — 3/20/2011 @ 5:02 amDave,
There are many sources you can google, 36 to 40% of the Luftwaffe was destroyed during the french campaign, the Dutch also destroyed nearly 300 aircraft
The fact that the french took to the air in 60 MPH slower airplanes but still scored significant victories is a testiment to the same people who suffered 1.4 million casualties in the first world war, then suffered nearly 600,000 more in WWII.
I look at 2 million dead out of a population of 40 million differently than you obviously do
Any country that loses 1 person out of 20 fighting facists deserves respect
EricPWJohnson (58b455) — 3/20/2011 @ 5:34 amOh, I agree that Google can take you interesting places:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vichy_French_Air_Force
Simon Jester (7d9322) — 3/20/2011 @ 5:47 amAnd, of course:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_France
Simon Jester (7d9322) — 3/20/2011 @ 5:51 amThe French air force destroyed “36 to 40% of the Luftwaffe,” Eric?
Maybe you need to take an iodine pill.
Icy Texan (2f4d96) — 3/20/2011 @ 6:06 amIcy, just remember the history of posts. This is the fellow who contended that Christians were becoming the majority in the UAE. But then,d he wants to argue, I think.
Simon Jester (7d9322) — 3/20/2011 @ 6:17 amSouth of Benghazi.
Angeleno (4e9907) — 3/20/2011 @ 6:25 amThe people of Libya are fighting for freedom – freedom to institute Sharia as their legal system. We should not help them at all. It is anathema to Western Civilization and the fundamental principles that are at the core of the US Constitution separating religion and the state.
At one point I enthusiastically endorsed our missions in Afghanistan and Iraq – Once we permitted them to enshrine Sharia Law in their Constitutions, my support unequivocally ended.
Horatio (55069c) — 3/20/2011 @ 6:32 amI think Eric’s quote comes from Wikipedia because the footnotes match, but this New World Encyclopedia entry has more:
DRJ (fdd243) — 3/20/2011 @ 7:00 amDRJ, I thought the adventures of the Vichy air force were also interesting.
Simon Jester (7d9322) — 3/20/2011 @ 7:10 am— Sen. Barack Obama, Dec. 20, 2007
Dustin (c16eca) — 3/20/2011 @ 7:13 amAs the British RAF also furnished over one thousand aircraft and pilots to the Battle of France (over 900 British machines were lost), I suspect they also provided some small contribution to the Luftwaffe’s casualty rate.
navyvet (db5856) — 3/20/2011 @ 7:19 amOur Commander And Chief tells our military to attack Libya, and then he immediately leaves to go on vacation in Brazil, consistent with his history of bizarre and extremely irresponsible behavior …., for which I blame the jackasses who were irresponsible enough themselves to have elected that street hustler, empty suit and decadent dilletante. It boggles the mind. Any rational person has to be incredulous that that incompetent jerk and other incompetent jerks like Clinton, Holder, Napolidumbo, Kagan and Sotomeyer have been given any dominion over us whatsoever.
Summit, N.J. (75c9eb) — 3/20/2011 @ 7:48 amWe are the world’s worst poker players. It’s really tough to convince someone you’re not bluffing when you leave the negotiating table to hold a pres conference to announce you’re just bluffing.
This was what was wrong with our Iraq policy. The USG spent 12 years pretending to be really, really serious about backing those sanctions spelled out in the Safwan Accords and later adopted by the UN against Saddam Hussein with the threat of military force.
Then telling the world via the press it really was just an empty threat, as we had no intention of ever using the amount of effective military force needed to back those words up.
Maybe this time we’ve learned our lesson, and after achieving some limited goal that is our in our national interest (although right now I can’t imagine what that is in Libya) we won’t follow up with a whole laundry list of demands we’re totally unserious about. But are backed up with the “threat of force.”
Steve (49173f) — 3/20/2011 @ 7:56 am__________________________________________
Well done, Barry.
Speaking of which, he said the following last Wednesday:
I guess everyone should feel a sense of delight and tingle running up their leg.
The ego and hubris — and gall — of the guy are so bad, that when I first saw this particular quote floating around the Internet, I thought it possibly had been taken from a parody.
The US’s “Goddamn America” president, signed sealed and delivered.
Mark (411533) — 3/20/2011 @ 8:04 amThere’s an ointment for that, mark. give it to Matthews.
narciso (a3a9aa) — 3/20/2011 @ 8:07 am#64, What makes for some fascinating reading are the picturies and stories of the many different aircraft which were flown by both the Axis and the Allies during World War II. I really like those old, propeller aircraft (much more than I like jet aircraft). There was something more romantic about them. There were some very clever innovations in aircraft during World War II, too, innovations which show the ingenuity and resourcefulness of people.
Summit, N.J. (75c9eb) — 3/20/2011 @ 8:08 amDid chrissy matthews engage in birtherism after that.
DohBiden (984d23) — 3/20/2011 @ 8:08 amDRJ
Its true the french airforce was destroyed as I said earlier, they had inferior aircraft but not inferior pilots. The germans outnumbered them, had the initiative and in the pre radar days all the advantage goes to the attacker, the defender can only respond
What is interesting is that most of the french losses were planes destroyed on the ground, most of the french victories is when they went head on into te german formations, outnumbered outgunned, outclassed
but not outfought
EricPWJohnson (58b455) — 3/20/2011 @ 8:09 amHad the DW520 been available 6 months earlier, the germans would have had to spend dearly to take france
One plane delayed 6 months
EricPWJohnson (58b455) — 3/20/2011 @ 8:11 amThe Germans beat the living snot out of the French and Allied forces, crushing them in a six weeks campaign that knocked the French out of the war…and the Frenchies basically fought like little girls.
But, other than that, the frog-eaters gave a good account of themselves.
Dave Surls (a5c9cc) — 3/20/2011 @ 8:19 amThat may be true, Eric. I’ve read that many of the planes lost were lost on the ground to mechanical problems and sabotage, and my father told me that a number of his American squadron’s planes were lost due to Axis sabotage and issues with the British over landing priority.
DRJ (fdd243) — 3/20/2011 @ 8:24 amYou are always so kind, DRJ
Simon Jester (91a0d7) — 3/20/2011 @ 8:28 amDarn clever that Obama. By not having any policies or strategies for the Middle East, and by continuously, um, improvising from day-day-day, Obama and Clinton are keeping those wascally Muslims off balance, confused and scratching their heads. We’ll prevail, too, if the Muzzies keep watching Geraldo Rivera and Bill O’Reilly, who clearly don’t have a clue what is going on over there, and who wing it like the Obama Administration does every single day.
Summit, N.J. (75c9eb) — 3/20/2011 @ 8:37 amThe issue of French ferocity, is a complex thing, their greatest generation, fought two protracted and consecutive wars in IndoChina and then Algeria,
narciso (a3a9aa) — 3/20/2011 @ 8:38 amthey took from the latter, a more Arabist orientation that led Chirac to back Tammuz 16; aka
Osirak. Mitterand’s govt retaliated against Hezbollah in ’83, something we didn’t do, and of course their involvement in Africa, is long and sordid. And their unengagement in Iraq, was more pragmatic then ideological, re Chirac and co.
You would think that the French would be weary of war and burned out by now. They’ve been fighting wars in Europe from one generation to the next for a thousand years. Either they’ve got a hell of a lot of spunk or they are gluttons for punishment. Maybe its their diet. Snails and frogs’ legs, YECH!!! The only chance that they get to have some good food is whenever they invade other countries. French women are c’est magnifique, though.
Summit, N.J. (75c9eb) — 3/20/2011 @ 8:52 amSimon,
I try not to be snide or sarcastic when I comment, although sometimes I fail in that goal. But I don’t consider it kindness to acknowledge a point.
DRJ (fdd243) — 3/20/2011 @ 8:58 amBut you see, the point that was made ignored so very much. Two words: Vichy France.
And the person in question has said some, um, most unusual things in the past. Many times. Multiple threads.
Again, you are far kinder than I am with this sort of thing. I would do better to just let people write whatever they wish, and move on.
Simon Jester (7d9322) — 3/20/2011 @ 9:02 amDrj and Dave
From the excellent paper
http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/aureview/1985/sep-oct/kirkland.html
EricPWJohnson (58b455) — 3/20/2011 @ 9:05 ammore from that source
EricPWJohnson (58b455) — 3/20/2011 @ 9:06 amSo outnumbered in crappy airplanes the french fighters only getting to fly 1 mission a day against the Nazi’ 4 a day and outnumbered 3 to 1 –
fought very hard indeed
EricPWJohnson (58b455) — 3/20/2011 @ 9:07 amBut you see, the point that was made ignored so very much. Two words: Vichy France.
And the person in question has said some, um, most unusual things in the past. Many times. Multiple threads.
Again, you are far kinder than I am with this sort of thing. I would do better to just let people write whatever they wish, and move on.
As for the French Air Force before the Fall of France, here is another source:
http://www.century-of-flight.net/Aviation%20history/WW2/French%20air%20force.htm
They do not heap scorn upon the French, but this was a problem for the country’s armed forces, top to bottom.
And any claims to heroism needs to be tempered by the actions of Vichy France, again.
Simon Jester (7d9322) — 3/20/2011 @ 9:09 amRealistically the french accounted for almost as many as the british did in the Battle of Britain
1,000 vs 1,562 – and the battle of Britain was longer, more fighters were engaged and more sorties flown
EricPWJohnson (58b455) — 3/20/2011 @ 9:11 amOh, dear God. Is this like your bizarre statement about Christians outnumbering Muslims in the UAE.
Honestly, man. C’mon.
DRJ, I am sorry. But I get so tired of hearing people defend the brave French during WWII. They knuckled under and helped the Nazis. The Vichy Air Force bombed Allied forces.
Simon Jester (7d9322) — 3/20/2011 @ 9:16 amThe Free French were brave. But that ain’t what we are discussing.
Simon Jester (7d9322) — 3/20/2011 @ 9:16 amJust call him ‘Otto’ it saves time.
narciso (a3a9aa) — 3/20/2011 @ 9:16 amI’m sorry I intruded because I did not read enough to realize this was a Vichy vs Free French discussion, and I agree the Free French were far more brave and admirable than their Vichy counterparts.
DRJ (fdd243) — 3/20/2011 @ 9:18 amWill the anti-war hippies scream that war is not the answer?
Or are they hippies only when a Repub is in office.
BTW Gaddafi is no friend of the US but neither are his opponents.
DohBiden (984d23) — 3/20/2011 @ 9:20 amProps for consistency: Liberal Democrats in Uproar
Fritz (ac48cc) — 3/20/2011 @ 9:22 amWow at least those hippies are consistent.
DohBiden (984d23) — 3/20/2011 @ 9:23 amFree French Aircraft
Potez Seaplane
BL 174 Bloch A3 Light Bomber
LN 411 Loire-Nieuport Ftr./Bmbr.
La 298 Latecoere Torpedo Seaplane
HuMk.I Hawker Hurricane Ftr./Bmbr.
MS 410 Morane-Saulnier Fighter
Vichy French Aircraft
D. 520 Dewoitine Fighter
VG 33 C-1 Arsenal Fighter
MB 155 Marcel-Bloch Fighter
HuMk.I Hawker Hurricane Ftr./Bmbr.
MS 410 Morane-Saulnier Fighter
Any information that you want about any fighter or bomber or transport or auxiliary aircraft flown by any country in WW II, let me know. I’ve got it. Over 1,000 different aircraft.
Summit, N.J. (75c9eb) — 3/20/2011 @ 9:27 amActually, that detailed list of over 1,000 aircraft includes activated,experimental, modified, etc., for ALL of the Axis and Allied armies, air forces and navies, and all aircraft of all types manufactured between 1931 and 1945.
Summit, N.J. (75c9eb) — 3/20/2011 @ 9:46 amFritz @ 92,
They’ve already brought up the dreaded “I” word, too. This could be a real problem for Obama depending on the impact and outcome of the air strikes. It’s awfully close to campaign time to act so divisively.
Dana (9f3823) — 3/20/2011 @ 9:47 amKookiecinich wants to impeach obama?
I agree with him.
DohBiden (984d23) — 3/20/2011 @ 9:57 amI don’t want Obama to be impeached. He is the Republican Party’s best asset. He won’t stop digging. He and his administration will keep digging themselves into a deeper and deeper hole right up until the 2012 election. They can’t help themselves. Anybody that dense, shallow and incompetent won’t experience an epiphany.
Summit, N.J. (75c9eb) — 3/20/2011 @ 10:05 amEconomic collapse-Obama’s answer to the obesity problem.
DohBiden (984d23) — 3/20/2011 @ 10:12 amwhat this whole Libya thing lacks in production values it doesn’t make up for with an intriguing plot line
bored now
happyfeet (ab5779) — 3/20/2011 @ 10:23 amSITREP: Status of Richard Lugar’s depends undergarments is?
MOIST!
happyfeet (ab5779) — 3/20/2011 @ 10:30 amRichard Lugars depends are moist because he is getting an orgasm from all the backstabbing he did to conservatives.
But he is right on this.
DohBiden (984d23) — 3/20/2011 @ 10:44 amit matters so freaking little though if he’s right wrong or indifferent … as far as military actions go, this is just a quick wank before school
“Don” from CNN is trying to infuse it with maximum drama. I’m just not feeling it. What we know is that we’ll make highly targeted splosions for a few days not weeks or months after which daffy may or may not still be in power and then we consult with the french.
Derp.
For reals if you want a military drama you should just go see Battle LA except I heard there’s a stupid scene with a dog but you know what? Libya doesn’t have any dog scenes at all – it’s completed devoid of dramatic tension.
Yawn.
happyfeet (ab5779) — 3/20/2011 @ 10:55 amIf we limit our role to providing long-range air support for the rebels, it will not be a quagmire for us.
I doubt the rebels would support an invasion.
Michael Ejercito (64388b) — 3/20/2011 @ 11:15 amI really wish Palin were prez.
And to those who say she needs to stay home and take care of her children can kiss it.
DohBiden (984d23) — 3/20/2011 @ 12:19 pmAnyway…bombing Libya back to the stone age (a short trip) is a great idea. We should have dusted them off 25 years ago.
Doing it to try to help out the rebels instead of doing it to get revenge for all the Americans murdered by terrorists, with the aid of the Libyan government (and to eliminate any possibility of it happening again) just shows what a complete, utter, and total scumbag Obama is (and, the same goes for the rest of the lefto-garbage with very few exceptions).
But, what the hey…as long as we whack out a few Islamo-dirtbags with our Tomahawks, it’s all good.
Motivations not that important…results real important.
Dave Surls (0afb3b) — 3/20/2011 @ 12:54 pmWell, we are discussing the Libya bombing instead of having a weekend to “celebrate” the one year anniversary of the unpopular Obmacare.
I question the timing.
elissa (47dd8e) — 3/20/2011 @ 2:12 pmAaron, it’s better than that. Obama isn’t just “reassur[ing] the other guy [Kadafi] of the limits of [Obama’s] resolve,” he’s sending out the director of the Pentagon’s Joint Staff to “guarantee” to the world press that Kadafi “is not on the target list.”
Regime change by decapitation has been ruled out, it seems.
He’s guaranteeing we aren’t even attempting to do what (1) Reagan attempted to do to this self-same Kadafi in 1986, (2) Bush-43 attempted to do to Saddam in 2003, and (3) would, if successful against Kadafi, unquestionably shorten this conflict and save countless lives and treasure, Libyan and otherwise. I rant on about this at my own shop. (Sorry for link-whoring.)
Beldar (a197ec) — 3/20/2011 @ 4:12 pmThat’s right, Airwick; it was the RAF that decimated the Luftwaffe — NOT the Franch air force.
D’oh!
Icy Texan (986bd1) — 3/20/2011 @ 4:52 pmThe timing of EVERY SINGLE THING THAT THE LIGHTWORKER DOES is subject to being questioned.
Icy Texan (986bd1) — 3/20/2011 @ 4:54 pm“The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation.”
Senator Barack Obama, Dec. 20, 2007.
SPQR (26be8b) — 3/20/2011 @ 6:09 pm“I question the timing.”
elissa – I’m with you. Remember back to Operation Desert Fox. Any idea if Obama is getting anything on the side and needs a distraction?
daleyrocks (9b57b3) — 3/20/2011 @ 6:16 pmIcy, when I was a kiddo I got to watch the SR-71 take off and land quite a bit. That was a beautiful bird. Sigh..
Simon Jester (830e4a) — 3/20/2011 @ 6:19 pmThat’s really closer to 1994, and 1996, when there
narciso (a3a9aa) — 3/20/2011 @ 6:27 pmwere Iraqi incursions into Shia or Kurdish areas, near the time of elections
http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/2011/03/no-debate-and-no-objective-obama-enters-war
narciso (a3a9aa) — 3/20/2011 @ 7:43 pmHave y’all noticed the Arab League’s response to this today?
When we said we wanted you to do a no-fly zone, well, we didn’t actually expect you to do it!
kishnevi (127d58) — 3/20/2011 @ 8:22 pmIn Tucson we got to watch the U-2s take off, fly level for a couple miles, and then WHOOSH!!! straight up into the upper atmosphere — bound for Ruskieville or Chinee.
Icy Texan (986bd1) — 3/20/2011 @ 9:15 pmThat would be from Marana AFB, right
narciso (a3a9aa) — 3/20/2011 @ 9:26 pmDavis Monthan
Icy Texan (986bd1) — 3/20/2011 @ 9:39 pmBeale AFB
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 3/20/2011 @ 9:54 pmObama Sucks.
Madonna Sucks as an actress.
Muammar Sheen sucks.
DohBiden (984d23) — 3/20/2011 @ 10:09 pmBeale is in NoCal.
AD-RtR/OS! (329892) — 3/20/2011 @ 10:28 pmYou bet it is, right outside of Yuba City. I spent every summer there as a boy. SR-71s were supposedly secret, and I watched them several times a week. Beautiful birds.
I didn’t know that Beale had German POWs during WWII until recently, though.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 3/20/2011 @ 11:35 pm