In Which I Take Back Everything Nice I Ever Said About Lawrence O’Donnell… (Update: Run For Your Life! Chris Matthews Has Issued a Call to Arms!)
[Guest post by Aaron Worthing; if you have tips, please send them here.]
Hey did you ever crash at a friend’s place for free? Have you ever spent the night in the bed of a lover, also without helping out with that night’s rent? Or did you merely, as a child, live with your parents rent-free?
Did you then declare that rent you saved as income to the IRS? If you didn’t then Lawrence O’Donnell thinks you are a tax criminal.
Yes, really.
For a much more sane discussion on the topic, and on the same network, we have this discussion with Paul Ryan explaining why he sleeps in the office. (Video won’t embed correctly. Sorry.)
The Blaze correctly argues that discussing this nontroversy took away from more serious issues. At the same link, for instance, you can see Ryan discussing the recent union protests in his state.
As for the Wisconsin protests, Althouse has tons of good stuff given that this is her home state. Just go to the main page and keep scrolling. But this post, with the signs depicting a lynching, calling the newly elected governor a dictator and so on… gosh, it makes you think all that talk of civility is just a way to say “shut up, Republicans!”
Update: Democrats sleep in their office all the time, too. And a big Hat Tip to Jim Treacher for the O’Donnell video.
Update (II): And speaking of using the so-called new civility to try to shout down conservative or Republican ideas, we have this video of Chris Matthews issuing a “call to arms.”
Of course he was one of a chorus of people who suggested that the violent rhetoric of the right led to violence, which leads me to question his sincere commitment to civility and peaceful language.
Update (III): Here’s a fairly devastating video from Wisconsin protests:
[Posted and authored by Aaron Worthing.]
how much rent is Obama paying exactly?
happyfeet (a55ba0) — 2/17/2011 @ 10:51 amO’Donnell is really quite a blithering moron.
SPQR (26be8b) — 2/17/2011 @ 11:07 amI can’t see the videos right now, but didn’t Dick Armey get into trouble for doing this, way back when? As I recall, it did wonders for his popularity.
Milhouse (de2658) — 2/17/2011 @ 11:11 amWith respect to the Wisconsin thing – I find it extremely suspicious that certain public employee unions (police, fire) are allowed to keep their existing collective bargaining rights while the rights are being abolished for other public employee unions.
This reeks of political motivation. If the theory is that public employee unions exert undue pressure on the state and that the result is that the state overpays for employee labor, then all public employee unions should be diesmpowered.
Disempowering only some looks very much like punishing your political enemies and rewarding your political allies.
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 2/17/2011 @ 11:13 amSpeaking of Wisconsin …
SPQR (26be8b) — 2/17/2011 @ 11:14 amObama doesn’t pay rent, of course.
But, speaking as a taxpayer who lived for a long time in employer-provided housing, I’m sure that he must be declaring the “value of provided housing” on his 1040.
Hmmm… I wonder what that value would be and how it would be calculated? You’d use the going rate for a bedroom in the White House, right? Perhaps based upon whatever Bill Clinton charged for a night in the Lincoln Bedroom – multiplied by the number of rooms that the Obamas are using?
We can throw in the security staff for free.
Gesundheit (cfa313) — 2/17/2011 @ 11:18 ammilhouse
i would be very surprised if anyone has ever gotten in trouble for this. it is done all the time.
Aaron Worthing (e7d72e) — 2/17/2011 @ 11:18 amWith any luck Romney will win the GOP nomination. Then we can resurrect the video (search YouTube for “Lawrence O’Donnell goes off on Romney and Mormons”) of him going bats**t crazy over the possibility of Romney — more specifically, ANY Mormon — becoming POTUS.
Icy Texan (4325bb) — 2/17/2011 @ 11:21 amPolice officers are looking for Democratic Wisconsin lawmakers who were ordered to attend a vote on a bill that would strip public employees of collective bargaining rights.
Bill Maher (03e5c2) — 2/17/2011 @ 11:29 amNo Democrats showed up for Thursday’s Senate session, meaning a vote cannot be taken. Republicans need one Democratic senator to be present. Calls to Democratic leaders were not immediately returned.
Republicans are pushing the anti-union bill proposed by GOP Gov. Scott Walker. Thousands of people clogged the halls of the Statehouse for a third straight day in opposition.
Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald says law enforcement officers were searching for Democrats after they were ordered to attend the Senate session.
ALL public employee unions should be outlawed. We as citizens have no choice when it comes to public employees whether federal, state, county or city. We’re stuck with whomever is in office and/or hired. It’s not like a commodity – if you don’t like the UAW you can buy a Toyota. We don’t have that option with government. We’re stuck with whoever is sitting at a particular desk and being paid ridiculously high salaries and benefits when you consider the quality we’re getting.
jwarner (145f4b) — 2/17/2011 @ 11:36 amQuestion for any tax experts. If your employer requires you to temporarily move to a new city, many hundreds of miles away from the home you permanently maintain, and the employer provides you a company-owned apartment in which to live during the temporary assignment, is that taxable income? Why?
This is not a housing allowance for your normal, permanent place of residence, or for some vacation home; the employer (we, the people of the United States) require that he work in Washington for a certain period of time as part of his job duties. He continues to maintain an actual house back in his district.
This is, once more, a liberal knowing he can’t win on the merits of the debate, and so resorting to the politics of personal destruction, trying desperately to distract the public from the real issues facing us.
PatHMV (3bea46) — 2/17/2011 @ 11:37 amjwarner
i came to the same conclusion when those snow plowers sat on their hands, allegedly, during the blizzard in NYC a few months ago.
Aaron Worthing (e7d72e) — 2/17/2011 @ 11:40 amImagine the taxes we could collect from all the homeless people who also don’t pay housing expenses.
Barry (4a2258) — 2/17/2011 @ 11:42 amAaron’s doing a great job. Patterico, you ought to give him a raise!
The Sanity Inspector (ef5d4d) — 2/17/2011 @ 11:42 amFound the answer to my own question. Lawrence O’Donnell needs to do better research. From IRS Pub 15-B:
Congressmen do NOT get a housing allowance. They are allowed up to a $3,000 tax deduction, as best I can tell, for their housing expenses in D.C. (The exclusion does not apply if the employee has the option of the employer-provided housing or a housing allowance.)
Here, the employer-provided housing is on the employer’s business premises, and it is being offered for the employer’s convenience. It does not appear that he is required to accept this housing, but the comments in Pub-15 seem to indicate that only one of the 3 tests needs to be met, not all 3 of them.
PatHMV (3bea46) — 2/17/2011 @ 11:47 amlarry o’donnell is lucky there isn’t an a$$hole tax.
Jim (844377) — 2/17/2011 @ 11:57 amThe Matthews rant is typical of historic revisionism. There were 23 items listed in the Iraq War resolution as to why we were going to war. WMD, which includes the whole spectrum of NBC (nuclear, biological and chemical), was just one.
Bill Maher (03e5c2) — 2/17/2011 @ 11:59 amaphrael-
I think it is common to separate out police and fire because they are the ones most likely to be killed showing up for work, and if anything the majority of the public would pay them more if they could. Occam’s Razor suggests that is likely an adequate response and no need to invoke political ploys.
Ya’ll need to realize there is a contingent in Madison saying right now, “This is great!! Good times, just like the 60’s, nothing like a good protest for something to do. Hey, who’s that singin’ Joan Baez?” The state capitol building is on one end of “State Street” and the other end is the beginning of the university campus. State Street in between is filled with eateries and businesses catering to students.
The O’Donnell nonsense reminds me of a saying I love to hate, “Never let a good deed go unpunished”. Next he’ll ask Ryan what is he doing with all of the lobbyist conrtibutions if he’s not spending it on a condo in DC…
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 2/17/2011 @ 12:03 pmBill-
You make so much sense when you appear here, you must do a werewolf or Jekyll and Hyde thing before you make TV appearances. Keep to print, we like you better that way…
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 2/17/2011 @ 12:05 pmWhy are Larry and Crissy being so hate-filled and violent?
JD (d4bbf1) — 2/17/2011 @ 12:05 pmI think they just bottle the rage virus at MSNBC, O’donnell, picked it up, just like Sgt. Shultz, who
narciso (e694f9) — 2/17/2011 @ 12:08 pmit can credibly said ‘knows nothing, hear’s nothing’
Heed the wise words of Dennis Prager, JD. We think they are wrong; they think we are evil.
Icy Texan (4325bb) — 2/17/2011 @ 12:09 pmI meant to mention earlier- a long time and popular mayor of Madison was Paul Soglin, who was first known as an anti-war protester who won a seat on city council representing an area heavily populated by students. There is a famous picture of him holding a “Marlboro man coat” up over his head to protect from billy clubs as police cleared protesters from the occupied Commerce Building. IOW, there are few cities with a more liberal population than Madison.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 2/17/2011 @ 12:23 pmBy the way, if you’re still unemployed, the White house sends their regrets but they have already “shot their wad” and have no further advise for you except … “keep trying” … this is as good as it gets
You’ve got to love that last line. I suggest it for any “birther” questions to Republicans.
Bill Maher (03e5c2) — 2/17/2011 @ 12:23 pmThis Carney clown may make us long for Gibbs. Borrowing money to pay interest on money already borrowed doe snot add to the debt. Crissyhooten economics, writ large.
JD (d4bbf1) — 2/17/2011 @ 12:42 pmJD, I was just about to ask if anyone had seen Hooten and Carney at the same time.
LOL.
It’s no less than fraud to attempt to hide this incredibly damaging interest burden from calculations. These people just want to pass the buck, much as NJ passed it to Christie, and then whine when the hard choices are made.
And I think that presents an opportunity for Republicans to actually be adults and fix the problem.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 2/17/2011 @ 12:45 pmI’m going to stop calling liberals assholes and simply call them “O’Donnells”. I wonder if O’Donnell reports the savings he receives at retail stores from sale prices as income? What an asshole, I mean, O’Donnell.
Tom Seaver (01bf5a) — 2/17/2011 @ 6:55 pmThe IRS should be going after everyone on skid row for sleeping on the street and not declaring the benefit as income.
Arizona Bob (e8af2b) — 2/17/2011 @ 8:49 pmYou know, there are a lot of interns and pages on Capitol Hill. They probably store things in drawers, take naps, use the dining room in Longworth if it’s not too nasty (thanks, Pelosi).
We could make a lot of money off these
kidstax cheats.O’donnell is so bad, you wonder if he’s a GOP plant.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 2/17/2011 @ 8:53 pmDustin,
If I remember correctly, the office I worked in bunked the interns at one of the big universities in town (our interns were mainly around during the summers).
I don’t have it in front of me, but there’s data out there regarding how much time new members of Congress spend in their home districts. It’s a lot, much more than you might suspect. The Congressman being interviewed might only be in D.C. Monday through Thursday morning, traveling on Sundays and Thursday afternoons.
In any case, someone needs to point their finger at O’Donnell and laugh long and hard.
Fritz (ac48cc) — 2/17/2011 @ 9:25 pmWhat a bewildering post! So there’s 25,000 people protesting the removal of collective bargaining for public unions in Wisconsin, and what’s clearly the first volley in the Tea Party Corporatists strategy to bust and destroy unions and what we get is O’Donnell chiding a Republican about sleeping in his office, Chris Matthews doing whatever it is he did and an ad….a frickin’ AD compiled by those dastardly wits at Wisconsin GOP?
If anything that ad proves just how desperate the Right is to create that false equivalence with the LEft, because they KNOW they’re rhetoric has been violent, hateful and downright threatening.
One thing I noticed is no one in that crowd was carrying a gun. Hmmm…
And as for Walker? Man is a despot. Absolutely. He’s a dangerous fanatic and he IS acting just as arrogantly as Hosni Mubarak.
Anyhow, all I can say to him really is: THANKS!!
He’s kicked a sleeping bear, and now, the Right and it’s apologists and waterboys needs to contend with a REAL populist movement. And oooh boy…is this going to be interesting.
Why does the Right so hate American workers? Must everyone be a slave to the whims of the wealthy and capital?? Is that why you think this nation was created? Well think again.
AD: out of here.
(PS: I notice the disclaimer feels a need to sharpen its knives, so I have no qualms about whether this appears or not. Obviously the truth is something of a bewildering excercise at always and forever doing duty for the corporatist’s, UND DAS NARRATIVE MUST BE KONTROLLED!! As per the bottom feeder rules provided to the Righty blogs by FNC.)
AssClown DoodyHeads (29c43d) — 2/17/2011 @ 10:36 pmWell aren’t you a complete and utter f**king moron…
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 2/17/2011 @ 11:02 pmAlso, you apparently can’t f**king count.
Lemme guess… You went to Wisconsin public schools?
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 2/17/2011 @ 11:03 pmRarely has a commenters nom de web been more appropriate.
Have Blue (854a6e) — 2/17/2011 @ 11:24 pmMore like a nom de société actuelle Mr. Have Blue.
But seriously, is this the best PP can do to highlights what’s happening in Wisconsin?
I’ve seen the technique before here and it just amounts to Right wing besmirching of the waters.
Anyhow, last time I checked those folks had Freedom of speech, so what’s the problem with their signs. Can’t King Scott Walker take it?
Freedom of speech was designed expressly for dealing with monarchists and despots.
And 25,000 is probably lowball. Care to guess how many it will be tomorrow or Saturday or once Scott “Hosni” Sends in the Tea Party brownshirts to rough people up??
Care to guess what it will be when half the midwest descends upon it. Or the Northeast or the Northwest?
AssClown DoodyHeads (29c43d) — 2/17/2011 @ 11:55 pmHis Royal Highness has repeatedly been telling his state that he welcomes the protesters and encourages them to say their peace. And then he notes that this doesn’t drown out the voices of the taxpayers who can’t just cheat their way our of their work today and protest too.
I don’t see how your argument is justified, then, if it’s the opposite of the facts. No one is advocating silencing these people. However, they are using thuggish language, and that calls for more speech to criticize it.
I’m very curious of Assclown can define the term despot. After all, isn’t it the democrats who are fleeing the state to avoid a quorum off legislators? How can such a situation be described as despotic? Sounds like it’s not even Walker’s vote that counts.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 2/18/2011 @ 12:01 amSure he can.
I seem, however, certain folks b**ching about “violent rhetoric”. And remember, during that rhetoric, no one was calling in threats… Huh. Funny how when it’s the other side doing it, you have a problem…
And showing up at a lawmaker’s house while he’s at work is a f**king coward’s way.
Name two – just two – times that violence has been started by the Tea Party.
And I certainly hope the TP shows up at the capital building. They actually clean up after themselves, and Jesus those teachers left a f**king mess.
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 2/18/2011 @ 12:15 amAlso, remember what happened to Julia Scyphers (albeit, he wasn’t charged because the witness died) and Carl Delong. I’m concerned about your safety.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 2/18/2011 @ 12:25 amWrong thread. GOLLY.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 2/18/2011 @ 12:25 amHis Royal Highness has created a crisis by which to try and bust the public workers unions. It did not have to go this way.
Why is it we can’t rescind wall street bonuses, because they were part of previously agreed-on contracts! But we can break previously agreed-on union contracts, because everyone’s got to share the pain, right?
AssClown DoodyHeads (29c43d) — 2/18/2011 @ 12:35 amRight!
Dustin (b54cdc) — 2/18/2011 @ 12:46 amThat clever BASTARD!
Decades ago he allowed for the public unions to force upon the state freaking AMAZING benefit packages that will be insanely costly for the state, JUST to take away collective bargaining.
My God, the evil GENIUS of it all…
No idea. Ask the Democrat-controlled Congress. They were the ones without a spine, bubba. Don’t get all pissy, princess, because the Republican-controlled State Legislature is daring to ask the teachers to up their contributions to HALF what the national average is.
And they still have their defined benefits retirement package, which CAN’T be changed retroactively (attempts have failed in court). Defined benefit packages are the holy-grail of pensions.
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 2/18/2011 @ 12:50 amAlso, they should make it a crime, as in jail, if you attempt to unionize any public employee. If it’s government, then we must really need it, so collective bargaining amounts to jeopardizing what we need.
Example: thug unions refuse to teach our kids, canceling their education so they can threaten to murder the governor and compare him to a despot in an idiotic fashion. That should be a crime.
Any public union contract was made under duress, and I don’t see the need to honor it, Assclown. Let’s just ban public unions. Public employees should be trading some money for job security, and if the government doesn’t get their labor for the lowest price they can, they are cheating the taxpayer. Granted, we need to pay well enough to attract teachers who are good, but let the market handle it.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 2/18/2011 @ 12:51 amEspecially with all the snow days that most parts of the country have had.
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 2/18/2011 @ 12:53 am…but let the market handle it.
Yeah, the market just works wonders for labor doesn’t it? The big heady race to the bottom…
The “market” will eat itself if given a chance, and honestly I don’t care but when it destroys wealth so irresponsibly and criminally because of people gaming it, what then??
Oh right: Let the market heal itself. It’s magic.
AssClown DoodyHeads (29c43d) — 2/18/2011 @ 1:18 amYeah, it does, Assclown.
Look, I know you’ve been blatantly wrong in your last few comments and simply ignored that it was pointed out, but that’s pretty silly.
You may be under the impression that without public sector unions, labor rights will be horrible, but let’s not be ridiculous. One of the biggest problems in public education is that it’s too hard to fire horrible teachers. That problem is one the market can heal, and it’s hardly magic. You just fire the crap and hire someone else.
You say the market destroys wealth criminally, and I have no idea what this hysterical nonsense is supposed to mean. It’s not like I’m asking for a lawless society.
It’s a shame your public school education left you unable to articulate what you are trying to say. As it is, it sounds like you’re just stupidly flailing to mock any solution that you feel vaguely threatened by.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 2/18/2011 @ 1:25 amYou say the market destroys wealth criminally, and I have no idea what this hysterical nonsense is supposed to mean.
Huh. You must live in quite int the shadow of beneficence and privilege not having felt or even noticed the ravages of the recession and the economic meltdown of 2008. What is so difficult about understanding that?
That was your Free Market, and barely even a market, more like a plutocratic GOP enabled Wall street bowl of poo.
30 years of this. A deteriorating middle and working class. Or are you going to tell me you don’t understand that also?
AssClown DoodyHeads (29c43d) — 2/18/2011 @ 1:41 amI say yeah, hell yeah, get rid of bad teachers, bad employees and whatever, but what does that have to do with taking away collective bargaining rights, hard won collective bargaining rights I might add, and weakening unions?
These issues are being conflated and it’s BS. Sell that pucky to someone who can’t see through transparent ideological demonization and extreme and dangerous grabs of power.
AssClown DoodyHeads (29c43d) — 2/18/2011 @ 1:46 amActually, no. No it was not a Free Market. It was a market with massive Govt interference by way of artificially introduced incentives.
But you’re a f**king idiot, so I’m not surprised that you wouldn’t understand that.
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 2/18/2011 @ 1:48 amSell that pucky to someone who can’t see through transparent ideological demonization and extreme and dangerous grabs of power.
Big talk from someone with his TEAM BLUE glasses superglued to his face.
Another Chris (67858a) — 2/18/2011 @ 1:52 amAnd as for hateful speech, forget a couple of placards and signs doing mock parodies of Tea party BS (Don’t Retreat. Reload).
Check out these headlines from FOx Nation:
Just Like Arizona, Obama Attacks Sitting Governor Protecting Their State
DNC Caught Organizing Wisconsin Protests
Tea Partier Confronts Runaway Wisconsin Dems
Union Hate Rally in Wisconsin: Protests Rife With Hitler, Gun Targets, Death Threats
This language is very aggressive and downright disturbing.
And if there is real violence and people get hurt at these rallies tomorrow the next day or the next. The Right will have blood on it’s hands again.
Perhaps not you, but there’s lots of Right-wingers just looking for a shooting party and this is the sort of language that will incite them.
Demonize and dehumanize and make these people, regular American’s, seem like violent and out of control terrorists. Make the President seem like an out of control extremist, make the teachers unions seem like corrupt, incompetent parasites taking away the money of taxpayers and taking a “free ride.” Make the Dems who walked out seem like fugitives from the law, who deserve to be confronted.
Really, enough already. The Right in this country just needs to get out of people’s faces. Enough is enough. You guys had your shot and it’s just one big fail and suck up to the corporations, and a distorted ridiculous deified president (Reagan) who raised taxes 7 out of 8 of his years in office and still left a massive budget deficit.
AssClown DoodyHeads (29c43d) — 2/18/2011 @ 1:56 amSo there’s 25,000 people protesting the removal of collective bargaining for public unions in Wisconsin
No, there’s 25,000 parasites, losers, cargo cultists, and wastes of carbon molecules protesting it.
Another Chris (67858a) — 2/18/2011 @ 1:57 amWow…
“Caught”… “Confronts”…
My god, how MONSTROUS…
Hey, tell me… How many threats did dems get from those?
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 2/18/2011 @ 2:00 amReally, enough already. The Right in this country just needs to get out of people’s faces.
Clearly, the Left in this country doesn’t like having its own tactics thrown in its face.
The President of the United States urged his supporters to get in the faces of people who didn’t agree with his agenda, and YOU’RE crying about excessive political rhetoric? Doodyheads is an appropriate monikor for you considering the pile of bs coming out of your mouth.
Another Chris (67858a) — 2/18/2011 @ 2:01 ammassive Govt interference by way of artificially introduced incentives.
Yeah, please stick that CRA BS where the sun don’t shine. So, the banks didn’t bundle faulty derivatives? They didn’t make a massive amount of bad loans? The ratings agencies didn’t go along with the whole illusion?
It was a systemic S_ithouse of epic proportions, all at the foot of an SEC that was toothless and a White HOuse doing the bidding of big oil and the banks, and sure some of the Dems were in on this, but, c’mon…really….
AssClown DoodyHeads (29c43d) — 2/18/2011 @ 2:02 amAssClown thinks it is making some salient point about none of the protesters carrying guns (something that it does NOT know to be true, BTW) and then turns right around and defends their free speech ‘right’ to label the governor as a dictator.
So, does it have no problem with a tea-partier holding a sign with a photo of Obama sporting a Hitler mustache? Or is that ‘totally different’?
Icy Texan (5d1aa3) — 2/18/2011 @ 2:02 amThe President of the United States urged his supporters to get in the faces of people who didn’t agree with his agenda
There’s a difference between debate and trying to ruin people’s livelihoods and lives and presenting them as barely human and suggesting you’d better load up and get ready for “2nd amendment solutions…”
What’s happening in Wisconsin really isn’t so different to the confrontation of arrogant established power that’s happening in the Middle East.
You can tell by how similarly the status quo there is so arrogant to think they won’t be allowed there way. What could be more democratic than thousands of people chanting in a square? Walker can’t even give an inch because if he does his goose is done. He’ll be a laughing stock, so he’s come out with this whole authoritarian persona and he’s threatened to call in the Nat. Guard and all this baloney. Let him do that. Really. I welcome descending on Madison in the hundreds of thousands and teaching the extreme RIght and the Fake populist Tea Party Koch Bros. idiots a real lesson in what a true populist movement is about.
Right now you guys: Your just apologists and waterboys for the elite and don’t kid yourselves otherwise…there’s a word for that…I’m sure you can supply it.
AssClown DoodyHeads (29c43d) — 2/18/2011 @ 2:10 amWithout the CRA, they would not have made the bad loans. This is blatantly obvious, and was a completely foreseeable consequence. When you tell banks that you will cover ANY loan that debtors default on, banks will make riskier and riskier loans. At the very worse case, they will break even because you’ll pay them every penny outstanding on the loan, and best case you’ll make piles of money as people make payments on loans (which is how banks make money besides fees and overdraft charges).
If bad loans aren’t made, then toxic assets don’t exist to be bundled as securities.
The SEC had no power to do anything, because (sadly) what was happening was perfectly legal.
And do you know who pushed all of this, and who constantly assured us that everything was fine?
Rep Barney Franks, who consistently, year after year, took massive campaign donations from numerous financial institutions.
But again, you’re a f**king moron, and can’t grasp that.
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 2/18/2011 @ 2:15 amThere’s a difference between debate and trying to ruin people’s livelihoods and lives and presenting them as barely human and suggesting you’d better load up and get ready for “2nd amendment solutions…”
Pathetic deflection–try harder.
You can tell by how similarly the status quo there is so arrogant to think they won’t be allowed there way.
The public sector unions ARE the status quo. They’re trying to shield themselves from economic reality while the people who actually pay their bills have to take it in the nuts.
What could be more democratic than thousands of people chanting in a square?
Democracy is a mob chanting mindless slogans? And here I thought it was a form of government.
I welcome descending on Madison in the hundreds of thousands and teaching the extreme RIght and the Fake populist Tea Party Koch Bros. idiots a real lesson in what a true populist movement is about.
Hurry up and get it started already. Please.
Right now you guys: Your just apologists and waterboys for the elite and don’t kid yourselves otherwise…there’s a word for that…I’m sure you can supply it.
And you’re just a prison b*tch for human medocrities.
Another Chris (67858a) — 2/18/2011 @ 2:16 amSo asking people to contribute half of what everyone else does is ruining their lives?
Buddy, do you have any idea how many people would give ANYTHING for the deal you claim will “ruin lives”?
Keep it up, f**kwad. Keep it up.
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 2/18/2011 @ 2:17 amEveryone, cease responding to Clown. If he isn’t someone who is banned under another name, he is at best a dishonest troll.
Do. Not. Feed.
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 2/18/2011 @ 2:19 amBuddy, do you have any idea how many people would give ANYTHING for the deal you claim will “ruin lives”?
Hell, sounds to me like there should be more unions then…
Look at everything being proposed by Walker. This is more than trying to fix a budget. This is seeking to cripple unions permanently. In Wis. Ohio, Indiana, Florida…it’s the first volley.
But you know that I’m sure.
AssClown DoodyHeads (29c43d) — 2/18/2011 @ 2:26 am…he is at best a dishonest troll.
Dude, you’re the one who finds it necessary to resort to name calling. I’m just discussing the issues, nothing dishonest about it.
Good night, morning, whatever.
AssClown DoodyHeads (29c43d) — 2/18/2011 @ 2:29 amEveryone, cease responding to Clown. If he isn’t someone who is banned under another name, he is at best a dishonest troll.
Do. Not. Feed.
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 2/18/2011 @ 2:32 amAll those bold letters are very impressive. You figure that out all by yourself?
AssClown DoodyHeads (29c43d) — 2/18/2011 @ 4:20 amThe appropriately named twatwaffle managed to spit out every single leftist trope from the last few years. It is an output generator, nothing else. It does not respond when people point out it’s lies, it just goes on to it’s next lie. The amount of projection it engages in is astounding.
JD (d4bbf1) — 2/18/2011 @ 5:31 amTo the appropriately named “assclown”
Um, sir, on what planet do you think it is appropriate to post under that nickname?
Every single comment you made has been removed. It has nothing to do with your ideas and arguments and everything to do with the vulgarity of your nick. find a new one.
Aaron Worthing (e7d72e) — 2/18/2011 @ 5:54 ami will add that you have been put in moderation, too. I will consider lifting that moderation if and when you pick a reasonable nick.
feel free to appeal my decision to patterico himself.
Aaron Worthing (e7d72e) — 2/18/2011 @ 5:58 amoh noes does this mean we can’t use nasty nicks on the sockpuppet thread my day is ruined
the fake happyfeet, but you have to admit a not bad imitiation (325a59) — 2/18/2011 @ 6:05 amfake
i think that probably is an exception. at least i will treat it as such until patterico tells me otherwise.
Aaron Worthing (e7d72e) — 2/18/2011 @ 6:25 amholy nasty nicks baman these people need to clean up their act this world is a trip! I don’t know what’s going on these days I got this person over here talking about me and this person. Hey listen let me tell you something it’s my prerogative I can do what I want to do! I made this money you didn’t. Right, Ted?
We out of here.
happyfeet (ab5779) — 2/18/2011 @ 6:30 amthe scary thing is i knew what song that was.
Aaron Worthing (e7d72e) — 2/18/2011 @ 6:37 amEvery single comment you made has been removed.
So that explains why the thread looks like people are arguing with an invisible opponent.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 2/18/2011 @ 6:41 amIt no longer looks that way.
Assclown is a good name for this guy. He has been here before. I don’t like moderating people. If Kman behaves himself for the next few comments I will take him out.
The only banned people have richly deserved it by messing with people’s real lives.
Patterico (c218bd) — 2/18/2011 @ 7:02 amUm, sir, on what planet do you think it is appropriate to post under that nickname?
AssClown DoodyHeads (29c43d) — 2/18/2011 @ 7:18 amDustin: should it also be a crime for a provider of supplies to public agencies to request, as part of the contract with the agency, that the contract be exclusive?
I mean: why is it ok for Dell to insist that it be the exclusive provider of computers to $agency, but not ok for a union to insist that it be the exclusive provider of labor to the same $agency?
aphrael (9802d6) — 2/18/2011 @ 7:20 amUm, sir, on what planet do you think it is appropriate to post under that nickname?
Not sure what that has to do with anything, other than a facile excuse for you to remove my comments.
A bit heavy handed eh??
Very mean spirited. Very mean. You’ve hurt my feelings.
(And thx. Mr. PP)
AssClown DoodyHeads (29c43d) — 2/18/2011 @ 7:20 am“Tea Party Corporatists strategy to bust and destroy unions”
Good for them. I’m a Teamster and I support outlawing unions for government employees.
All unions should be banned, any government worker who strikes should be immediately fired.
Don’t like those rules?
Get a real job.
Dave Surls (95f3cc) — 2/18/2011 @ 7:26 amWhat’s happening in Wisconsin really isn’t so different to the confrontation of arrogant established power that’s happening in the Middle East. … Comment by AssClown DoodyHeads — 2/18/2011 @ 2:10 am
What assclown does not understand is that the union thugs and their democrat enablers are not the people confronting the arrogant established power, they are the “arrogant established power”. Democrat politicians have been running Wisconsin for decades, and the voters have finally had enough. There is a confrontation against established power but doodyhead can’t see where it is coming from.
Walker and the new Republican majorities in the Wisconsin statehouse and the defeat of Fiengold are the result of the voters finally deciding they have been looted by the democrats and the unions to pay for the inferior job performance for far too long.
Have Blue (854a6e) — 2/18/2011 @ 8:48 amaphrael at 76 (7:20 am) – You bring up a good point. Would it be a good idea to require GM to be required by the government to use a single steel manufacturer for all of the steel it uses in its cars? Essentially a monopoly? Would it be an even better idea to require all three auto makers use a single, monopoly supplier for their steel needs?
Why then is it a good idea to require all of them to use the UAW for their labor needs?
Closed shops are inherently anti democratic. If a worker can’t tell the union to take a hike he is not truly free. I say this as someone who has at one time or another been a member of four different unions, only one of which was worth a damn.
And I did once tell a union representitive to get out of my face and my workspace as I had a job to do and I didn’t want to listen to his crap. The reason the union guy was in my workplace talking to me was the company at the time(and still) was in cahoots. The union bosses were robbing the membership blind and giving the company a sweet heart deal for the right to monopoly representation. The union rep was there (with company backing) to lobby the local workers against an insurgent plank in the union leadership elections.
Have Blue (854a6e) — 2/18/2011 @ 9:17 amTroll or not, it’s time to address this argument and expose it for the logical jujitsu it really is. The AIG contracts couldn’t be broken retroactively, because the work had already been done. People had been promised that if they stayed with the company for a year they would be paid this amount at the end of the year. They did so, passing up whatever other employment opportunities came their way, in the expectation of receiving the promised amount. If it were not paid, they had a cast-iron case that they could take to any court in the land and win; the money legally and morally belonged to them and not paying them would be theft.
The same applies to whatever union members have already earned under the contracts they have; the government can’t retroactively rewrite their terms of employment and take back the money and benefits it has paid or owes them. But it has every right to alter the conditions for future work; the workers then have the choice of staying and working under the new conditions, or leaving and looking for something that suits them better.
Milhouse (3366ff) — 2/18/2011 @ 9:18 amI looked it up. Armey had been sleeping in the House gym, until the Ds got upset over the good publicity he was getting and Tip O’Neill banned him. So he moved into his office, where O’Neill had no say on who slept there.
This was the first time I’d heard of Armey, and I’ve been a fan of his ever since. I wish he’d succeeded in that coup he tried to pull against Gingrich.
Milhouse (3366ff) — 2/18/2011 @ 9:21 amThat’s an interesting response.
Here’s how I see it. The Government should not involve itself in anything that isn’t essential. Therefore, if the employees use the tactics of unions, they are jeopardizing what is essential, and the contract is under a special kind of duress. The people negotiating with the unions are simply elected, and often affiliated with the union.
It just doesn’t work.
When a car plant faces a strike, it’s under duress as well, but car plants compete with other car plants. They don’t product the essentials that many have no choice but to rely on, such as public education, police services, etc, and they are negotiating with the people managing the profitability of the company. It’s possible, however much harder, for the union to cheat by electing itself to both sides of the negotiating table.
I can easily distinguish public unions from contracts to rely on Dell because Dell isn’t the only company making computers. I can fire them if they breach their contract (refuse to sell me any when I need some unless I give them more than their product is worth to me).
We must not allow teachers or cops or firemen or soldiers or postal workers to have that kind of power, because it gives them far too much power. That’s why these people are often paid so much more than their labor is worth. This is especially true in public education, where many teachers ought to be fired rather than overpaid.
Anyway, if we could somehow make public unions like Dell, and easily replace them with a competing group of people like a simple order of Macs or HPs, the Unions wouldn’t have society’s nuts in a salad shooter, and I wouldn’t be so animated about it.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 2/18/2011 @ 9:31 am