Patterico's Pontifications

11/23/2010

Racism Will Find Elie Mystal, Even When Looking in the Mirror

Filed under: General — Aaron Worthing @ 11:25 am



[Guest post by Aaron Worthing; send your tips here.]

Over at Above the Law Elie Mystal (who is a man) recounts a story of racism.  It all revolves around the Annual Harvard/Yale Football game, which has to be one of the stupidest rivalries in college sports.  I mean I was born in central Pennsylvania and lived a good chunk of my life in Texas.  I know something of what real football looks like, and the Harvard/Yale matchup is sort of like going to an illegal dog fight and it turns out to be between a Chihuahua and a poodle.  For my part, I avoided that clusterfrak like the plague, although I did appreciate how some of my classmates had friends at Harvard and wanted a chance to say hello to them.  So they had a game and someone won, but I could give a rat’s behind who, and then afterward a number of black alumni and/or students started gathering at a club called the Cure Lounge and there were claims by bouncers that known local gang bangers were mixing in, and I will let the Harvard Crimson take over from there:

According to the e-mail, the club bouncers reported seeing “local gang-bangers” in the crowd of black students. The club attempted to only allow access to students with Harvard and Yale student IDs, but the organizers insisted since alumni made up a bulk of the attendees, the bouncers should adhere to the guest list. At 10:45 p.m., the management decided to close the club to prevent what management called the “wrong crowd” from entering.

Natalia N. Pearson-Farrer, a second-year Harvard Law School student, said she arrived at the club at 10:30 p.m. to see a crowd of predominantly black Harvard and Yale students and alumni dressed in cocktail attire. By the time she got in, she said she was surprised to see the bouncers had let very few people in, and soon after, the club told patrons it was shutting down because of technical difficulties. After the truth was circulated, though, she said she felt frustrated and embarrassed.

Beal said a lengthy conversation with the club owner led him to believe he was not racist, and this only added to his “consternation around what this event says about race relations in our country.”

So this leads Elie (who is a man) to write a post entitled “Racism Will Find You, Even at the Harvard-Yale Game.”  And to the extent that he is denouncing the attitude of the club owners, I agree that this looks pretty bad for them.  I would like to hear their side of the story, but unless the people speaking out so far are out-and-out lying, I would have to conclude that racism played a role.

But here’s the funny thing about all of this.  You see in the original version of the post, Elie (who is a man) thought that Harvard’s Black Law Student Association had organized the official invitations to the party.  That was since corrected, but in the original version of the post, Elie (who is a man) wrote:

Because if I had gone to The [Harvard-Yale] Game, I probably would have gone to the party hosted by the Harvard’s Black Law Student Association (and other affinity [sic] groups) at a new Boston club called Cure Lounge. And had I gone to that, when the club owners shut down the party essentially because too many black people were gathering in one place, I would have had major objections and been thrown in jail for “being an angry black person in Boston” (or whatever the hell they are calling it these days).

So, Elie what would have drawn you to that party in particular?  Why of course because it was by the Harvard Black Law Student Association.  So what you are telling us, Elie, is that you would have segregated yourself, right?

And why, pray tell, would you do that?  I mean I am all for black people forming organizations in self-defense, even potentially excluding white people, such as civil rights organization.  It’s worth noting that the NAACP itself does not literally exclude white people, but I wouldn’t have a problem with them over that if it did.  But why associate specifically with black people following a mere football game?  Because perhaps you feel more comfortable around black people?

And you are free to feel that way and organize according to that preference, Elie (who is a man) but how exactly is that different from a club owner deciding he doesn’t feel comfortable around black people?

All of which doesn’t excuse the club owner.  But if you wanted to eliminate race based discrimination, Elie you might start by addressing your own behavior.  It’s just a thought.

[Posted and authored by Aaron Worthing.]

40 Responses to “Racism Will Find Elie Mystal, Even When Looking in the Mirror”

  1. Gotta be the same guy….

    Newsday article about Mystal

    MRL (4f0a11)

  2. the Harvard/Yale matchup is sort of like going to an illegal dog fight and it turns out to be between a Chihuahua and a poodle

    Best line of the day.

    Hillary (69b3db)

  3. You don’t have a problem with a group excluding based on race?

    But yet it’s a problem to want to go to a party that a group (that does not exclude based on race) puts on? This logic is a little weak.

    I think you are capable of getting how the values written into our civil rights laws work. They don’t regulate what parties you want to go to. But they do regulate who the operators of places of public accommodation can exclude. And this is how we operate to eliminate race based discrimination.

    Didn’t you already work through blaming black people for racism in your time at law school, or in college, or earlier in life?

    imdw (a544ba)

  4. I would rather watch Rosie O’Donnell shave Michael Moore’s back hair before making the sweet sweet sweaty love than to watch Harvard and Yale play football.

    JD (109425)

  5. MRL

    Heh, but no, that appears to be a different man. if the other elie is a man.

    http://www.theroot.com/views/root-100?m=MystalE

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  6. ‘These goggles do nothin’

    narciso (82637e)

  7. imdw

    > You don’t have a problem with a group excluding based on race?

    In which you fail basic reading comprehension. Read the post again and again until you figure out you are wrong.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  8. AW – dimwit gets its jollies acting superior, not being superior, and by calling people bigots and racists.

    Didn’t skin color have less to do with this than the known gang members in the establishment?

    JD (109425)

  9. JD

    I don’t know. Couldn’t they have thrown out everyone not in cocktail attire and been pretty safe on the gangbanger front?

    I think as the story is presented to me so far, it sounds like racism. but we haven’t heard from the club owner yet.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  10. One of the puzzles of the black middle class (or whatever the Harvard black law students consider their class) is their affinity for gangster music and dress. It would be interesting to learn who invited the gangbangers to a private party.

    Mike K (568408)

  11. I have read, then re-read the post and comments several times and …

    Well … isn’t it sorta something-not-very-savory to *presume* that white folks aren’t capable of being “local gang-bangers” ?

    Leaving aside the fact that there is only one race – Human – on this planet, and the sooner we accept that, the sooner this faux outrage thingie can be put behind us, can we try to respond to these sorta things with a colour-blind approach rather than allowing the poor-me victimhood crowd to set the terms ?

    Alasdair (e7cb73)

  12. “In which you fail basic reading comprehension”

    Here’s what you say:

    “It’s worth noting that the NAACP itself does not literally exclude white people, but I wouldn’t have a problem with them over that if it did”

    I don’t know why “literally” is in there. White people were part of the founding of the NAACP. But you say that you “wouldn’t have a problem with them over that.”

    I’m just not seeing the logic of being “all for” black people making exclusive civil rights organizations and then suspicious of someone wanting to go to the BLSA party.

    imdw (842182)

  13. “One of the puzzles of the black middle class (or whatever the Harvard black law students consider their class) is their affinity for gangster music and dress. It would be interesting to learn who invited the gangbangers to a private party.”

    You will probably find more white middle class fans of “gangster music” than black middle class ones. Puzzling? Or middle class?

    imdw (842182)

  14. imdw

    > I’m just not seeing the logic of being “all for” black people making exclusive civil rights organizations and then suspicious of someone wanting to go to the BLSA party.

    it is not racist to recognize the existence of racism and to seek to organize to oppose it. I think ideally white, black, asian who are all equally committed to equality should be considered equal partners in seeking equality of opportunity. but only a silly purist would think there could be no racially conscious action at all, ever, even in self defense against racism.

    But it is racist to intentionally exclude or reduce the number of white people you hang out with in a mere social setting.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  15. “But it is racist to intentionally exclude or reduce the number of white people you hang out with in a mere social setting.”

    But what if BLSA throws a party you want to go to?

    imdw (7b0243)

  16. Why would anyone ever assume anything other than aggressive bad faith on imdw’s part?

    JD (0d2ffc)

  17. You think it’s bad faith to imagine that BLSA might throw a cool party that people would want to go to? Tsk tsk tsk.

    imdw (ad842b)

  18. You think it’s bad faith to imagine that BLSA might throw a cool party that people would want to go to? Tsk tsk.

    imdw (017d51)

  19. imdw

    if you think that is why elie is hanging with them feel free to be that naive.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  20. I think Elie wanted to go to the BLSA party. You are fine with racially exclusive civil rights organizations (which apparently doesn’t include the BLSA), but think that wanting to go to the BLSA party is a no no. Because you think that the reason someone would want to go to a BLSA party just has to be bad. No good reason to go. And Elie is the racist here.

    imdw (c5488f)

  21. imdw

    the blsa might very well have a civil right component, but they were not having an after game party to sing “we shall overcome.” they were presumably having it to party.

    And again, you can think he just randomly said he would probably go to the BLSA party, without noticing that it is the BLACK law students association party, and noticing that he is BLACK too. You can believe in coincidences. i do not.

    Its self-segregation, pure and simple. and it is his right to do it, but it is not morally right to do it.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  22. Again, AW, dimwit is intent on proving its lack of good faith. Give it time, and it will hide behind a proxy and post a link to your address, after hating on some joooooooooooooooooos.

    JD (0d2ffc)

  23. I was the President of one of my graduate schools minority clubs … almost embarrassed by it today.

    But anyway, racism is not illegal. If a white don’t want black folks in his place that is his business so long as he is not on the govt tit. Same goes for black folks or hispanics.

    Freedom means you are free to associate with whom you wish.

    If the Club Owner got freaked out some black gang bangers got mixed in with an affluent black crowd and he decided to nix the party. His business.

    Torquemada (a8a9b2)

  24. For premium members, you want to find racism go to Japan. Plenty of ‘Japanese only’ establishments.

    East Bay Jay (2fd7f7)

  25. Comment by JD — 11/23/2010 @ 11:53 am

    Stop that!

    Anon Y. Mous (5ac901)

  26. “And you are free to feel that way and organize according to that preference, Elie (who is a man) but how exactly is that different from a club owner deciding he doesn’t feel comfortable around black people?”

    um, the difference is that the club owner is offering a commercial good or service (entrance to his club) while Ellie is just deciding who he wants to hang out with. If you’re offering a commercial service, discrimination is illegal and immoral. If you are deciding who you want to hand out with, you’re allowed to decide who you hang out with. Seems pretty clear.

    Mike (b7ef2e)

  27. This whole thing is typical of the silly and shallow that Mystal trades in.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  28. But why associate specifically with black people following a mere football game? Because perhaps you feel more comfortable around black people?

    And you are free to feel that way and organize according to that preference, Elie (who is a man) but how exactly is that different from a club owner deciding he doesn’t feel comfortable around black people

    Because if 90% of the population decides to exclude 10% the people in the 10% are screwed. If the people in the 10% decide to segregate themselves the 90% will be mildly put out.

    This is even more true if the 10% have less than 10% of the wealth or run less than 10% of the businesses.

    This story is actually a good example of my point.

    Black people decide not to hang out with white people. Effect on white people: Nil

    Club owner decides not to allow black people in his club. Effect on Black people: Party is over.

    In the real world the power dynamic matters a lot.

    time (aa4765)

  29. Only certain people can be racists. What is acceptable for some is racist for others.

    JD (eb5afc)

  30. “they were presumably having it to party.”

    And god forbid they make it a party that people want to go to!

    “And again, you can think he just randomly said he would probably go to the BLSA party, without noticing that it is the BLACK law students association party, and noticing that he is BLACK too.”

    I know what BLSA is. He said he thought it was put on by BLSA and “other affinity groups.” Don’t know what those are, but does that meet your standard of an acceptable party to go to?

    “Its self-segregation, pure and simple.”

    I mean, what other reason could there be to go to a BLSA party? And Elie is the racist.

    “If you are deciding who you want to hand out with, you’re allowed to decide who you hang out with. Seems pretty clear.”

    You don’t get it mike. AW has decided why people go to BLSA parties. And he just dont like it. no no no.

    imdw (397249)

  31. You will probably find more white middle class fans of “gangster music” than black middle class ones. Puzzling? Or middle class?

    Comment by imdw

    It just might have something to do with blacks being 8% of the population. I know. Numbers are scary.

    Mike K (568408)

  32. time

    So you judge whether a person is racist not by the content of their character, but by the color of their skin?

    Btw, how do asians fit into that? if black people exclude asians, is that racist? Or is it only wrong if white people do that?

    Also your 10%-90% argument isn’t really about state of mind, but about how significant it is. That is that white racism is a bigger problem for black people, typically, than black racism is for white people. And that is true, as far as it goes. But that doesn’t mean there is a different state of mind, or a different sin involved when black people do it.

    Aaron Worthing (b8e056)

  33. Hey I can throw a party and decide who I don’t want in my f*cking party. Does that make me a racist?

    The Emperor (0ab629)

  34. AW – as mike and time demonstrated above, they save their outrage depending on who is doing the racisms, and who the target is.

    JD (eb5afc)

  35. ___________________________________________

    Beal said a lengthy conversation with the club owner led him to believe he was not racist

    The article fails to give the most crucial details. What exactly did the club owner tell Michael Beal? And if Beal concluded the owner was not racist, does that suggest the owner, in fact, acted in good faith? That his response made sense?

    I would reserve judgment until I knew the specifics of the conversation between Beal and the club owner. Even more so since we’re dealing with a situation where probably everyone (or almost everyone) is quite liberal, and the incident occurred in a bastion of leftism (ie, Boston/Massachusetts).

    And I don’t mean that liberals, therefore, are less likely to be racists or bigots. Far from it—after all, limousine liberalism is the epitome of phoney-baloney biases. What I do mean is, in general, I don’t trust the perceptions of people on the left, be they black, white, Latino, Asian, Jewish or Gentile, secular or non-secular, gay or straight, etc, etc.

    “Progressives” have a bad habit of determining that racism is the culprit behind so many situations, and that RACISM! and BIGOTRY! are found in every nook and cranny of society.

    Mark (3e3a7c)

  36. the Harvard/Yale matchup is sort of like going to an illegal dog fight and it turns out to be between a Chihuahua and a poodle

    Best line of the day.

    Yeah, it’s pretty good, except it should be “…toy poodle”.

    A REAL poodle is a moderately large hunting dog, and would eat the chihuahua for lunch and spit out the bones, after gnawing on them for a bit to get at the marrow.

    IgotBupkis, President, United Anarchist Society (9eeb86)

  37. Or is it only wrong if white people do that?

    Well, DUH. White people are EEEEEVIL.

    The world would be Soooooooo much better off if they were all killed, then beaten…

    IgotBupkis, President, United Anarchist Society (9eeb86)

  38. Also your 10%-90% argument isn’t really about state of mind, but about how significant it is. That is that white racism is a bigger problem for black people, typically, than black racism is for white people. And that is true, as far as it goes. But that doesn’t mean there is a different state of mind, or a different sin involved when black people do it.

    How much should I care about the state of mind/sin of a bunch of people I’ve never met, and likely never will meet? I suppose I care a little, but that’s very little.

    Now, I think I should care about behavior (Discrimination by the majority against minorities) that violates basic human rights and excludes a large chunk of the population from full economic life. Especially when this behavior has held back the development of a subset of society for over 200 years.

    time (aa4765)

  39. Bupkis’ mission is to educate us on poodle specifics. Thanks, Bupkis. It’s not a “pretty good” line; it’s the best.

    Roscoe (e5d66b)

  40. Time

    > How much should I care about the state of mind/sin of a bunch of people I’ve never met, and likely never will meet?

    Do you mean Elie Mystal or the club owner?

    > that violates basic human rights

    And somehow I get the feeling that you are about to explain how black people discriminating against white people doesn’t violate any human rights.

    > and excludes a large chunk of the population from full economic life.

    I didn’t realize that the Harvard black law students association constituted a large chunk of the population. I thought the school was more exclusive than that.

    Funny, I thought your whole argument was based on the smallness of the group. Now it is based on how large they are?

    I mean doesn’t your 10%-90% argument work even more as you go down to 5%? To 1%?

    Twist and turn all you want, but Elie is a hypocrite. Which isn’t the worst sin one can commit but it is bad enough.

    Roscoe

    I can accept it being a “pretty good line.” But thanks.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.0926 secs.