Does a David Frum Protege Have Tendencies Towards Pedophilia?
Scott Jacobs posts the evidence at The Jury Talks Back, in the form of a post lifted (with permission) from the NewsReal Blog.
Some of the evidence is weak, at least considered in isolation. For example, you can oppose the concept of date rape, or oppose lifetime sanctions against sex offenders, without being pro-sex offender. And this is even dicier, but it is possible to make jokes like the ones discussed in the post, for the shock value alone.
But when you put all that in context — with the references to “chilfs” (don’t ask), the admission on a gay teen forum to having sex with a 16-year-old (however legal in the given state), and so on — it paints a picture of a person who seems to have an interest in young boys as sex objects.
Whether that person is Frum’s protege Alex Knepper depends on whether someone is framing him in an expert manner or not. I’m inclined to believe it’s not a frame job.
Make up your mind for yourself — but before you click, be aware that there are relatively graphic images there. No child porn, of course — but not for the squeamish.
UPDATE: On his Facebook page, Knepper admits posting the picture of the two young naked men.
Why are you dragging David Frum’s name into this?
Is he guilty of something?
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/8/2010 @ 8:21 pmUsual Javert: comment first, read later.
Patterico (c218bd) — 10/8/2010 @ 8:33 pmUsual Patterico, you picked the headline. What the hell are you expecting people to think?
Do you ever make mistakes Counselor or are you just so damn uber alles about everything?
What a boor.
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/8/2010 @ 8:51 pmHow about you click over and read the fucking article, you God Damn moron.
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 10/8/2010 @ 8:56 pmJavert, read the article.
Who said that?
Do you know?
This guy really lives up to the term ‘moral degenerate’. It’s difficult to read an article like that, but this is an issue that I am sad to say is a lot more widespread than some people realize and deserves attention. I hate how this topic is often left to the Oprahs and the paranoid. Here’s a more serious approach.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 10/8/2010 @ 8:59 pmI wish, really wish I hadn’t clicked on the link. Evil manifests itself in no more horrific way than when a child is involved.
With that, I am unable to wrap my mind around possible motives for Frum’s lack of taking a hard stand against Knepper and publicly denouncing him – is Frum’s ego that hungry or needy, is he unable to admit that he lacks even the basic discernment, or is he really that self-deceived?
Dana (8ba2fb) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:06 pmDustin,
David Frum has a really creepy friend who I would not hang with but until David Frum is found to be protecting his friend from law authorities investigating pedophilia — why bring in Frum’s name?
I dunno. Maybe I have been managing too many people for too long and have a strong sense of “what is opinion” and “what is fact” and “what is illegal” versus “what is wrong.”
The dude is a creepy douche bag. Frum is his friend. But when you put Frum in a sentence with Pedophilia you are looking for a negative reaction to Frum and looking to smear him something good.
“Roosevelt has Communist Friends!” Is Franky a commie or does he just have creepy friends and associates?
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:06 pmFrum’s guilty of giving Alex Knepper a prominent platform, even after this evidence has come to light. Making it worse is that Knepper’s just a plain old prick (young prick, actually) who thinks he knows it all. Pugnacious and persistent, if he really posts to the boards with a Bieber avatar, that’s freaking deranged. I have two sons, oldest 14. Just the thought is gross, not to mention criminal.
Americaneocon (301403) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:10 pmAnd FWIW, that discussion is way too common in many a gay bar …… of which many gay men can tell the difference between “locker room talk” versus actually acting on it.
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:10 pmJust the thought is gross, not to mention criminal.
… and this is where I part the reservation of the morally outraged citizen and begin to wonder what else is going on.
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:12 pmHe fucked a 16 year old. Ignoring the fact that I don’t know of a SINGLE state where 16 is the age of concent, he fucked. A. 16. Year. Old.
What part of “mincing, child-hungry pedophile” don’t you get, jackass?
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:13 pmYou’re right. I don’t see how Frum’s breaking the law either.
But I do think the article (which is really disturbing and I ‘read’ so fast because I was unable to read all of it) makes a great case that Frum, a former speech writer for President George W Bush, is making a huge mistake to associate with a complete degenerate of the first order.
If you hire a cook who spits in his burger, you should be informed. If, when informed, you sneer, you deserve to be part of the discussion about the problem. Even if spitting in burgers isn’t criminal (I know, poor hypo).
I think this is 100X more true in the realm of ideas when one person is actually pushing an agenda that is … unacceptable. The solution to his views is to expose them and have more speech explaining what’s wrong with it. Frum’s solution seems to be to overlook defects because the guy mocks the ‘crazy right’.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:14 pmReminds me of those who sought CBS’s termination of Lettermen’s contract with his creepy pedophile jokes at the expense of A-Rod and Sarah Palin’s daughter.
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:15 pmJust wanted to note, it appears they repeatedly tried to handle this in private. They aren’t doing this to Tucker Carlson or Andrew Breitbart.
Frum has put himself in a sentence with pedophilia. I think the headline is honest, and yeah, it’s one of those attention grabbers.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:16 pmDustin,
If I was in the business of MY BRAND would I associate with creepy pedophile defenders. No.
But to write that headline … baiting at best and slanderous at worst.
Wow. Can’t believe I am defending Frum.
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:21 pmPosted for those, like Javert, who don’t bother to click links — but insist on criticizing the post for not explaining something that is perfectly clear at the link he didn’t click.
The links are there for a reason.
Patterico (c218bd) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:24 pmI can.
Patterico (c218bd) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:25 pmJavert,
Out of curiosity, after reading the post at the link (which I assume you did), how would you answer the question the post title asks – because it is indeed, a question:
Does a David Frum Protege Have Tendencies Towards Pedophilia?
Dana (8ba2fb) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:25 pmDana, I would write the headlines as such …..
Does a Alex Knepper Have Tendencies Towards Pedophilia?
… and I would then leave all else the same except for …..
Whether that person is Alex Knepper, a David Frum’s protege and up-and-coming writer, depends ….
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:28 pmJavert, you don’t have to apologize for defending Frum. Even lefties deserve to be treated fairly.
However, “slanderous at worst” is not fair. Yes, absolutely it’s bait. Someone wants to push Frum in a certain direction. But unless you can show that Frum’s protege doesn’t show evidence of these tendencies, I’m afraid the disturbing headline is a reflection of a disturbing reality.
The reason you find it so ugly and over the top to associate Frum with something this terrible is the same reason why Frum shouldn’t associate with that guy, knowingly.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:29 pmJust checked his Facebook profile. He admits posting the picture of the two young-looking boys:
Yeah, I’ll be getting screenshots and posting them.
Patterico (c218bd) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:29 pmI like Dana’s question. I say the answer is yes. What do you say, Javert?
If Knepper worked for the McDonalds down the street I would want that mentioned.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:32 pmJavert,
But you haven’t answered the question of the post:
Does a David Frum Protege Have Tendencies Towards Pedophilia?
Also, *if* you had read the links, it is clear that Frum has not denounced nor distanced himself from Knepper. In fact by not taking a stand against Knepper based on the evidence, Frum gives tacit approval. Some actions are so reprehensible they demand to be condemned. Frum appears unable to.
Dana (8ba2fb) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:33 pmPatterico,
You are such a lawyer. You miss the forest for the trees with such ease.
Yes, I read the link, and I am still unsure what Frum has to do with it?
Not only that, the only relevant crap is buried in the article yet if I read your headline ………
I dunno, maybe there is a need for journalism school around here them blogs. Lemme give you a headline to illustrate …..
Does Patrick Frey protege have tendencies of prosecuting blacks unfairly!
If I read that I would assume that somehow Patrick is guilty of something …… regardless of the small print later in the article.
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:34 pmJavert_is_alive! (AKA …) – Typical. Your only quibble is if Frum’s name appears in the headline or first line of the text.
Do you support Alex Knepper?
daleyrocks (940075) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:37 pmSo he is, without question, “lostpainting”.
Which means he did, in fact, fuck a 16 year old boy.
Frum has been informed of this, and has failed to say ANYTHING about it.
So it isn’t “Does a David Frum Protege Have Tendencies Towards Pedophilia?”, but rather “Why does David Frum not distance himself from a pedophile?”
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:39 pmDana,
If you wish to ignore the point I am making then let us not bother.
The headline purposely misleads b/c it encourages some inacurate, distasteful questions of Frum’s character which has nothing to do with the actual question of Frum’s character.
But frankly, I DON’T GIVE A SHIT IF HE LIKES BOYS. ALL I GIVE A SHIT ABOUT IS HE DOES NOT BREAK THE LAW AND GO AFTER THEM.
I also don’t give a crap if a candidate lies on their resume so long as they vote the way they say they will and it lets me make a good decision. I don’t care if they pork interns either.
The picadillos of men are irrelevant in the sea of history. It is their crimes or accomplishments which matter.
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:41 pmI say this is nothing but a bullshit smear.
First things first, I know Alex Knepper in the same way I know a lot of you folks on this blog. Knepper started out posting on Race42008 at least three years ago as “That Libertarian Guy”. Like me, he was a Rudy supporter, and R4’08 at the time was a bit of a shooting gallery between the Rudy supporters and the Rombots. I don’t know his personal life, but he seems like a decent, principled guy.
Second, I read the comments he posted and they don’t add up to anything other than a guy being consistent with his libertarian principles. You know, civil liberties, rights of the accused, and all that stuff. Disagree if you want but it hardly adds up to child pedophilia.
As for his supposed admission of sex with a sixteen year old, where’s the evidence? Anyone cache it? I’d also remind you that Knepper isn’t in his thirties, he’s twenty years old, so how long ago the incident took place makes a huge difference. If it happened three years ago when Alex started blogging he was still a friggin minor himself, and one what planet would a seventeen year old having sex with a sixteen your old be a sign of pedophilia? As for Justin Beiber, don’t even get me started on him — I don’t why anyone thinks he’s attractive but there are adult women twice Knepper’s age who publicly admit to the same thing.
Knepper isn’t the most tactful person I’ve ever run across on the internet, and he makes enemies fairly quickly, but I’d wager to bet that THAT’s his real crime — not pedophilia. You don’t have to like him, but I wouldn’t want to fire someone based on this evidence either.
Sean P (a82c1f) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:41 pmJavert,
If a guest poster here posted such things and I allowed him to continue posting, you’d be all over me with 5 times the fury that this post shows towards Frum.
Of course, that would never happen. Because if someone provided me with evidence of this nature regarding one of my guest posters, that person would be gone.
Not a tough decision, in my view.
Patterico (c218bd) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:41 pmWhoops. Did a Javert post disappear?
Why, yes, it did.
He has trouble with the rules on contentless insults.
Patterico (c218bd) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:44 pmPatterico,
It is your headline and it misleads because it is so easily interpreted that somehow Frum is complicit in the behavior.
I see nothing which shows Frum is complicit in doubhebags behaviour.
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:46 pmLightweight,
No, not a big fan of perverts but so long as they don’t break the law ……
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:49 pm“Yes, I read the link, and I am still unsure what Frum has to do with it?”
Demonstrating more problems with honesty.
“Maybe I have been managing too many people for too long and have a strong sense of “what is opinion” and “what is fact” and “what is illegal” versus “what is wrong.””
Fabulous. Your employees must love your quick draw, Fire, Ready, Aim management style that you demonstrate here, reaching conclusions without understanding the material.
daleyrocks (940075) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:50 pmBecause he IS, you thundering moron!!!
Frum KNOWS about these predilections of Knepper’s, and refuses to denounce him.
That MAKES him complicit.
That you can’t see that tells me that in my absence, you arrived and proceeded to be a comple and total dipshit.
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:50 pmIf a guest poster here posted such things and I allowed him to continue posting ….
What are you talking about?
Please stop doing a Daley and making vague references to stuff which is allegedly bad but not documented in any form.
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:52 pmGet your computer fixed.
If I sent him proof that he did have such a protege, and he sneered at me, it would make him fair game for criticism.
That’s a major part of the story. Frum has actively mentioned this freaking issue and taken a stand on it! I quoted him doing so.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:52 pmIf Javert continues to show he can’t understand the rules, then his posts that comply with the rules will be approved out of moderation. The default will be moderation; every contentless insult will be approved.
I work during the day though — so if it comes to that point, there may be hours-long stretches where comments don’t get approved.
His choice how he wants to play it.
Patterico (c218bd) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:54 pmOh good. Then my posts will have company…
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:55 pmIt’s not allegedly bad, it’s bad. He’s simplifying the issue for you, but he gave you a chance to see some raw material on the topic that is far too specific for me. What’s your problem?
Dustin (b54cdc) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:56 pmI may have been unclear with this. I’ll repeat it more clearly:
Javert,
If a guest poster here posted such things anywhere on the Internet, and I allowed him to continue posting here, you’d be all over me with 5 times the fury that this post shows towards Frum.
Patterico (c218bd) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:56 pm#29, Honesty?
Again, what does David Frum have to do with Alex Knepper putting up gay pedo dporn somewhere on the internet? How is David guilty here?
Or is the purpose here to go after David Frum for something one of his guys does on the internet on his free time? Does David Frum have to spend his free time monitoring his proteges?
Is David Frum even legally responsible for Douchebag in any way?
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:58 pmHey, Scott. I just approved a bunch of your posts out of moderation. They all had profanity, which is why they got caught.
Patterico (c218bd) — 10/8/2010 @ 9:59 pmThe idea is to make him take some kind of stand here. To step up, man up, and say “Knepper is not someone I wish to associate with because of the things he has posted on the internet”.
Because Frum KNOWS about this stuff. HAS KNOWN.
But still he defends and supports Knepper.
That is the purpose.
But you have to know that. You can’t actually be this stupid. You have to be putting on an act.
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 10/8/2010 @ 10:01 pm#36, That counselor is a HUGE assumption.
1) Does David Frum employ Knepper at this time?
2) Does David Frum have any professional influence on Knepper at this time?
3) I don’t give a flying fuck if you or anyone you are professionally associated with are posting on the internet naughty stuff
4) And if Karl is doing something naughty and you knew why would you toss him? His articles are fantastic and draw a crowd. They speak to your ability to get smart folks to write smart things and is a credit to you.
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/8/2010 @ 10:03 pmStraw man. I’ve been discussing things with you for the past few days and you’re clearly smart enough to know this is a BS argument.
Did anyone attempt to sue Frum? I thought they were just critical of him.
It really does appear that you still haven’t actually slowed down and read the linked article. For one, Frum has brought this issue up and taken a stance on it. I quoted him doing so in this thread. So your point is a straw man again. Also, the article congratulates those who they informed about this, who agreed to no longer associate with Alex. So your complaint is specifically the opposite of the article’s methods.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 10/8/2010 @ 10:05 pm“Please stop doing a Daley and making vague references to stuff which is allegedly bad but not documented in any form.”
Javert_is_alive! (AKA …) – You claimed to have read the link. What is not documented in any form at the link that would cause a self-proclaimed spokesperson for the conservative cause not to have Knepper blog under his name? Honestly?
daleyrocks (940075) — 10/8/2010 @ 10:07 pmScott,
I stand for something.
Leaving people the fuck alone so long as they don’t do anything illegal, don’t come and hurt you and they do their job well.
The rest is a bunch of garbage that old women gossip about.
And again, that headline is BAD.
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/8/2010 @ 10:07 pm“You can’t actually be this stupid. You have to be putting on an act.”
Scott – Don’t misunderestimate this one.
daleyrocks (940075) — 10/8/2010 @ 10:08 pmJavert,
How are you not repelled by remotely defending Frum in this? It makes me question what sort of person you are. I don’t say that lightly.
If there were any issue that naturally forces a person to make a clear and decisive stand in face of the evidence, than this would be it.
Dana (8ba2fb) — 10/8/2010 @ 10:09 pmDustin,
You want David Frum to do something he does not want to do. You can disagree with him or agree.
Does he deserve to be lumped into a pedophilia conversation?
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/8/2010 @ 10:10 pmGod damnit, it’s him all over again, isn’t it?
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 10/8/2010 @ 10:11 pmOK, so I found an alternate link to the Horowitz Blog (on Knepper’s own Facebook page, oddly enough) and, now I kinda want to walk back my comments a bit.
First of all, its still clear to me that this is personal with Horowitz. His first handful of bullet points link to articles that simply do not prove what he claims they do, which is what set off my BS radar in the first place.
… and still. Chilf? OK, that is foul. Really, really, really foul. I didn’t even know such a phrase existed and now I’d give anything to un-know it.
Sean P (a82c1f) — 10/8/2010 @ 10:11 pmYES!
He is the ONLY one who continues to allow posting of article by a PEDOPHILE.
He has been told about this guy, and refuses to do anything about it.
So yes, he IS supporting him.
And as such, should be publicly shamed for it.
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 10/8/2010 @ 10:12 pmDana,
Whatever. The headline is quite unfair to Frum.
How this becomes a referendum by the choir on my character is typical Patterico nonsense.
Frum is guilty of nothing but keeping a creepy friend.
Go attack the creep if you really want to feel good about yourself.
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/8/2010 @ 10:14 pmScott – It’s your old fried Obama Uber Alles, Jimminy Cricket, Heavensent, DaShiznit, Robert Rodriguez and some others. Not who I think you were thinking.
daleyrocks (940075) — 10/8/2010 @ 10:15 pmSean P,
Did you read the post?
There is a link directly to his admission.
Patterico (c218bd) — 10/8/2010 @ 10:15 pmHe is the ONLY one who continues to allow posting of article by a PEDOPHILE.
So you know he is a pedophile?
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/8/2010 @ 10:16 pmNo, That’s who I was thinking.
The other asshole couldn’t have gone this long without way more profanity.
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 10/8/2010 @ 10:16 pmAnd if he is a pedophile and you have all the proof, Patterico, call the cops and stop blogging.
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/8/2010 @ 10:17 pmHe had SEX with a SIXTEEN YEAR OLD!!!
He talks about how it’s hard to get aroused when his lover doesn’t look like a little boy.
How the HELL is your stupidity not painful?
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 10/8/2010 @ 10:19 pmYes.
Of course. It’s quite reasonable to do so. He has defended Alex on this specific issue. It is abominable to associate with someone preaching Alex’s ideals. It is even worse when your association consists of promoting him. You’re being completely unreasonable.
No one is asking the government to censor Frum. As you say, we merely want Frum to be part of this conversation. It makes perfect sense that he be. In fact, he has agreed to be.
You’re condemning a factually accurate and carefully written headline because you think the truth isn’t fair. Why? Does it suggest Frum is a pedo? All it suggested to me was that he should fire one of his employees… I was surprised by the fact he has accepted it (which he has). Headline could be much harsher and still be fair.
Why is it that half the posts here have someone come in with a ‘don’t say that!’?
Dustin (b54cdc) — 10/8/2010 @ 10:22 pmWhatever. The headline is quite unfair to Frum.
How this becomes a referendum by the choir on my character is typical Patterico nonsense.
Frum is guilty of nothing but keeping a creepy friend.
Go attack the creep if you really want to feel good about yourself.
Again the headline asks a very reasonable question if one actually reads the links.
I didn’t know there was a choir… what I do know is if someone is willing to be friends, or defend a person who is participating in any form of pedophilia, then that person’s character and morality is in serious question.
Frum is guilty of tacitly approving of his “creepy friend”.
I am not looking to feel good about myself but rather understand why you are defending Frum.
Dana (8ba2fb) — 10/8/2010 @ 10:26 pmFirst of all, you do appear to want Patterico to stop blogging. What’s up with that?
Second, pedophilia is legal sometimes. In particular, it’s not clear what jurisdiction this sex occurred in. In some places, such as Arkansas a 16 year old is legal for any age to sleep with.
That doesn’t mean it’s not pedophilia, of course. Only a dullard wouldn’t agree that this guy is a pedophile. Were he in this thread, he’d probably just ask what’s wrong with that? So you’re demanding the people bringing this problem to light do it in a different way that doesn’t appear to be possible.
And it wouldn’t get to the heart of the matter. Frum should not associate with pedophiles. If he does, he should be humiliated for it. That’s perfectly legitimate.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 10/8/2010 @ 10:26 pmDustin – “I live in Maryland, babe. 16 is legal here and all over the country.”
I invite him to come to Illinois…
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 10/8/2010 @ 10:30 pmYou’re condemning a factually accurate and carefully written headline because you think the truth isn’t fair. Why?
Because the headline implies that somehow David Frum is complicit in pedophilia.
I am not arguing the facts of the case.
I am not defending a pedophile.
I can’t stand Frum politically.
I am saying that I were in Frum’s shoess and in his role — the kid would be gone because my brand is being hurt
Does it suggest Frum is a pedo?
It begs the question based on the what is seen on thsi website which is what I find unfair.
It asks the reader to trudge through quite a bit to get to the point and once there you realize the Frum issue is a side issue.
I read the entire thing trying to find how David Frum had anything to do with pedophilia.
All I found is a dopey kid who claims to have had legal sex with another kid and Frum seems to be standing by the kid for whatever silly reason.
Maybe just to piss off the Patterico and Horowitz of this world.
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/8/2010 @ 10:32 pm#62 Frum is guilty of tacitly approving of his “creepy friend”.
That is about it.
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/8/2010 @ 10:34 pm… and let me also add …..
Patterico has every right to put up whatever the hell he wants on his website. If I don’t like …. I can go f* myself.
It is all good but my opinion on this headline is my opinion. And this headline is WOW … in my view and I read the NY Post daily.
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/8/2010 @ 10:36 pmBTW, is Frum gay?
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/8/2010 @ 10:38 pmOh you most certainly can.
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 10/8/2010 @ 10:41 pmAnyone who finds Javert’s points sensible should click on over to the article.
That’s a straw man.
I agree, Frum is standing by the man, despite being informed that this man is a pedophile. If you don’t care, that is exhibit A in the reason why people should loudly discuss just how wrong Alex’s views are.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 10/8/2010 @ 10:46 pm“How this becomes a referendum by the choir on my character is typical Patterico nonsense.”
Javert_is_alive! (AKA …) – Since you asked, look around, do you see anybody else defending Frum and Knepper? Pretty lonely, isn’t it? Need a new moral compass? Perhaps you and Obama can shop together.
daleyrocks (940075) — 10/8/2010 @ 10:53 pmI notice that Frum in his Newsweek column last year that voiced disapproval of Rush Limbaugh for being too bombastic — for becoming too symbolic of Republicanism in today’s era — also indicated he was now rather sheepish about having approved of Clinton’s impeachment back in 1999. My sense is that Frum, as is true of many Americans, is merely going through the process of socio-cultural dumbing down. We’ve lost our ability to be shocked by just about anything and everything. So Frum observes Knepper’s homosexualized freakiness and probably wants to shrug it off.
Not too many decades ago most people in this country would never have believed that a sitting president could be as brazen as Clinton was in the Oval Office and get away with it, or even receive a few free passes for it. Similarly, most people awhile back would never have thought the controversy of mixed-race marriage — which never was publicly fought against — would lead to a point in which same-sex marriage would be increasingly no BFD. BTW, based on the Newsweek article from Frum, that appears to be the reaction he’s starting to share. (Plus, he’s a big squish about the horrors!! of carbon dioxide and global warming.)
At this rate, people like Alex Knepper are going to have to run around nude in public and start grabbing at teen-aged boys’ genitals before enough people’s eyebrows are raised to make a difference and folks finally start saying “bleeech!”
Mark (411533) — 10/8/2010 @ 10:55 pm#62 Frum is guilty of tacitly approving of his “creepy friend”.
That is about it.
And you’re okay with that?
Dana (8ba2fb) — 10/8/2010 @ 10:55 pmBTW, I think the ‘Is Frum gay?’ is a joke reference to that Castle smear.
but at any rate, Frum is married to a woman named Danielle who blogs at huffpo.
I’ve read several of her articles and she’s unremarkable and bland. In particular, she likes to write about an issue by not mentioning the issue at all and going off on a tangent that identifies who the good or bad guy is. But anyway, if you care, Frum isn’t gay.
Frum is, however, on notice that one of his proteges has pedophilia tendencies.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 10/8/2010 @ 10:58 pm__________________________________
But anyway, if you care, Frum isn’t gay.
The problem with the word “gay” is it doesn’t take into consideration behavior like this:
I think people on the right — if not others — should start using the word “bisexual” more frequently. Of course, that would point to the contradiction of many on the left proclaiming that sexuality isn’t a choice — that free will isn’t involved — while also embracing the acronym of “GLBT.”
Mark (411533) — 10/8/2010 @ 11:14 pmSince when is getting with a 16 y/o being a pedophile? Being a pedophile is being into little kids.
Your New Best Friend (ee0b79) — 10/8/2010 @ 11:26 pm#56:
Yes, but the original link to Horowitz’s article didn’t have the link to the admission (it had links, but the lead to other links rather than the portion I cared about). I have backed away from my initial comment (See comment #56).
And I am pretty stunned. This is a side to Knepper I didn’t know and its…. I don’t know what to think.
Look, I knew him almost as well as I know you and if someone levied a charge this vile against you I would be extremely inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt, and if the first two or three pieces of evidence your accuser raised didn’t amount to anything, I would launch a furious defense, as I did here. Maybe the next time the Horowitz folks want to do a hit piece they might lead off with real evidence, not the guilt by association crap they started off with.
Oh, and I am curious how they found this info. Was this inadvertenly discovered, which led to the termination, or was this an after-the-fact job?
Sean P (a82c1f) — 10/8/2010 @ 11:27 pmYet another straw man.
Read the article.
He’s into little kids.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 10/8/2010 @ 11:28 pm@78 I don’t see where he’s into little kids??? The worst thats there are the jokes, which are obviously offensive but are all over the Internet…ever been to 4chan?
Your New Best Friend (ee0b79) — 10/8/2010 @ 11:35 pmHe has a picture of two obviously under 16 year old boys naked hugging each other. Are you kidding? He uses the term CHILF which means “CHILD I’d Like to F*&%” and he describes himself as an ephebophile which means he’s attracted to 12-13 year olds as well as 16-year-olds. Are you kidding? You’re arguing technicalities when he’s passing around salacious photos of children?
Rob Taylor (c57c67) — 10/8/2010 @ 11:58 pmI don’t 100% follow this; there was one link in my post, used twice, to Scott Jacobs’s post at The Jury Talks Back, which links the proof right there.
I surmise that you must have been reacting to earlier articles, and assumed those were the articles I was linking, or something?
I understand the bit about being shocked to learn something like this about someone you know. I just am not following the part about the Horowitz article.
Patterico (c218bd) — 10/9/2010 @ 12:06 am@80 – Where does he describe himself as an ephebophile? That’s what the writers of the piece say but Knepper never says it anywhere in the evidence. He’s only 20, btw, look at his Facebook…not that crazy to be into a 16 year old when you’re 20, is it? The picture looks bad but we don’t see their faces or how old he was when he posted it so we don’t really have any idea of how old they might be?
Your New Best Friend (ee0b79) — 10/9/2010 @ 12:19 amPatterico – The commenter just likes to pretend he’s a victim when he’s called on his BS. Don’t fall for it.
daleyrocks (940075) — 10/9/2010 @ 12:24 amdaley,
I assume you’re not referring to Sean P. He was making a sincere point and I was just trying to understand it.
Patterico (eaf05f) — 10/9/2010 @ 12:27 amPatterico – No, I was referring to the chameleon.
daleyrocks (940075) — 10/9/2010 @ 12:34 amComment by Scott Jacobs — 10/8/2010 @ 9:13 pm
Scott: FYI…
AD-RtR/OS! (8acc09) — 10/9/2010 @ 12:59 am“age of consent 16:
Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Connecticut, District of Columbia, Georgia, Hawaii, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Vermont, Washington, West Virginia;
plus Canada.”
-Wiki
That’s why Thailand is so popular with
nk (db4a41) — 10/9/2010 @ 3:39 amsex touristsperverts. Many Thai people are built very delicately, with very slender builts, fine features and basically muscleless limbs. A pedo’s paradise.#73, Dana,
I am actually quite surprised you mis-represent a position to score cheap points like the other allegedly bright people here.
I have a problem with the headline b/c one can easily infer (it implies) Frum is somehow involved in pedophilia.
If somehow the behaviour so blinds you with rage as it does others that you can’t see that then don’t know what to say.
With respect to condone behaviour — I don’t and I have stated several times yet you keep asking the same question. Again, a behaviour which speaks poorly to how you approach the main point.
But yeah, all Frum is guilty of hanging out with a creepy guy until proven otherwise.
Where were the third party references to Polanski frems alluding to them during that whole thing? Or are those people a little too close to Mr Frey that he dare not insult the powerful in LA with a similar headline??? And Polanski convicted.
Birds are still chirping over the core problem — the headline. All the rest are diversions by folks running to Uber Alles’s defense.
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/9/2010 @ 5:49 amugh, need a shower after reading that post.
yeah, obviously frum needs to dissociate himself, but besides being his protege, what is the significance of this guy? i mean it comes across as “this guy you never heard of is evil.” well, okay, but is he important in any other way?
I will also say that the evidence does only show that he has a desire for children. as in, you can’t arrest him, yet. i think you probably can investigate him criminally, though. Like to me that chilfy story does sound like he was having sex with a guy who only looked underage. it shows he desires it, but hasn’t done it.
But even if he has not actually done it with a child, that doesn’t mean people shouldn’t dissociate themselves from the creep. frum and anyone else who wants respect should have nothing to do with him, and publicly say they will have nothing to do with him.
Aaron Worthing (f97997) — 10/9/2010 @ 5:55 amNah this guy is just an asshole.
imdw (16090e) — 10/9/2010 @ 5:56 amjavert
um, you think that patrick frey hangs out with hollywood stars?
Seriously, who are these “frems” you are talking about?
Aaron Worthing (f97997) — 10/9/2010 @ 5:56 amAgain, I said it before. This website is filled with amateur intellect. Folks who sit around parsing sentences but miss points like Kobe was missing 3’s the other day.
YNBF is right, the type of nonsense Douchebag posted is all over the internet. He does not admit to pedophilia. He does write some outrageous stuff decent folks are not going to like. He is over-the-top. Supper sexualized. On the homosexual agenda bandwagon. Douchebag is doing gay locker-room talk and the straight boys get creaped out and go hunting for a crime not only to smear Douchebag but also his associate.
I don’t like it but he has a right to say it and Frum has nothing to do with it. All Frum can do is run the other way and STILL not even sure he has any legal power over Douchebag.
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/9/2010 @ 5:58 amAaron,
1) You are right. Frum should run fast. Frum does not want to. No idea why.
2) No, I wrote that Patty’s bosses do socialize with Hollywood types. The same Hollywood types who went beyond simply ignoring Polanski’s crime but actually defending it. Frum in comparison to them is a piker but I have yet to see similar ijection of their names into the Polanski situation which is much much much much worse.
3) But slamming Polanski Hollywood frems would likely result in a few nasty phone calls that Patty’s bosses ain’t gonna wanna take. They would go something like this “I fucking gave you $10,000 for you campaign and some pissant asst DA jerk puts me on a headline with pedophilia? I gonna have my fucking lawyer all over you and this kid like stink on crap! And fuck your reelection campaign …. the rest is downhill“
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/9/2010 @ 6:09 amIMDW,
1) Not the main issue but in your opinion, should David Frum get on his horn and denounce his bitch for what he did/does on his free time on the internet?
2) When you read the headline is your first inclination to think Frum is guilty of something with pedophilia?
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/9/2010 @ 6:12 am“1) Not the main issue but in your opinion, should David Frum get on his horn and denounce his bitch for what he did/does on his free time on the internet?”
I think he ought to be denounced for the asshole shit he’s written.
imdw (ae4d0b) — 10/9/2010 @ 6:28 amJavert
> He does not admit to pedophilia.
Proving you don’t know what pedophilia means. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&biw=1280&bih=655&defl=en&q=define:pedophilia&sa=X&ei=ynKwTMTmKIKClAfFlMybDQ&ved=0CBIQkAE
Or you are lying.
Take your pick. He is definitely attracted to children. And attraction is not a crime, but action is. The question is whether he has taken action on his desires.
So let’s review a line in your comment for humor’s sake:
> This website is filled with amateur intellect. Folks who sit around parsing sentences but miss points like Kobe was missing 3′s the other day.
Heh.
Aaron Worthing (f97997) — 10/9/2010 @ 6:52 amSO I showed my wife the headline and her reaction was …
Wow, so is this guy (Frum) a pedophile or something?
She illustrated my point perfectly.
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/9/2010 @ 6:52 amAaron,
Pedophilia is a crime. Does he admit to crime?
Also, the main issue is the headline.
As yet, most folks have avoided the point made in #96. Completely. Purposely. Simply b/c of their not liking the persons involved.
Not fair, at all, to Frum.
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/9/2010 @ 6:55 amI read a variety of the definitions Aaron but
1) I know of no one who would label someone a pedophile unless they committed a crime.
2) The definitions themselves vary some which do, and some don’t, classify DoucheBage as one
3) I saw 16, 13. I saw puberty as the cut-off. I saw more than 5 years of age difference between children …..
Which is why most normal adults use the legal definition for sake of not arguing …..
So Knepper is not a pedophile in any legal sense regardless of what may hide in his heart (err, private parts)….
But again, what does this have to do with the HEADLINE including Frum’s name????
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/9/2010 @ 7:06 am#98 is not PROVEN a …..
Sorry, but douche bag is simply a creepy guy who I would not allow into a home with teenage boys.
But I don’t have a right to go around calling him a pedophile (which implies a law breaker) and then saying his “Teacher” is also suspect b/c he won’t censure/fire/banish him from his club.
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/9/2010 @ 7:09 am“2) The definitions themselves vary some which do, and some don’t, classify DoucheBage as one”
Javert_is_alive! (AKA …) – Why not produce one of those other definitions to satisfy the brilliant thinkers, including a clause about not acting on thoughts. Of course not admitting to crimes in public forums most probably trolled by police is a nice red herring to throw out to the crowd.
daleyrocks (940075) — 10/9/2010 @ 7:21 amJavert
> Pedophilia is a crime.
No, it is not. There is not a single state that makes “pedophilia” the name of a crime. It is usually termed as rape—the rape being based on the legal inability to consent—or occasionally as some variant of sex with children. The desire of children, even the advocacy of sex with children is not a crime. That is why NAMBLA walks around free. (mind you, I think its high time we examine how rico might apply to them, but if they keep it just to wanting and advocacy, as despicable as it is, its protected speech.)
> As yet, most folks have avoided the point made in #96
You do know that this comment, which refers to comment “#96” is comment #96, right?
> I know of no one who would label someone a pedophile unless they committed a crime.
Then you don’t know anyone who knows the definition of the term.
> I saw 16, 13. I saw puberty as the cut-off. I saw more than 5 years of age difference between children …..
I am sorry, but you are leaving out a lot of nouns and verbs. What are you trying to say?
> But again, what does this have to do with the HEADLINE including Frum’s name????
Its his protégé. Its stated right there in plain English.
> #98 is not PROVEN a …..
And you know this is from comment 98, riiiight?
Aaron Worthing (f97997) — 10/9/2010 @ 7:22 amdaley
exactly. he hasn’t admitted to doing anything illegal, but you generally assume people are smart enough not to admit to crime, while, gee, trying to change the laws so they can do it.
Aaron Worthing (f97997) — 10/9/2010 @ 7:23 amI originally thought this was going to be another post where I’d get disgusted at how anti-sex things are in the conservative blogosphere, and how it’s no big deal for a gay conservative to have a sex life and some kinks…but, yeah, this Alex Knepper is definitely bad news, and a disgrace to anybody who’s willing to publish him.
Conceding here... (335188) — 10/9/2010 @ 7:26 amjavert
ah, i take back about making fun of self-referential posts, because it looks like something is jacking around with the numbers.
i suggest that rather than saying #96, you name the person, and either quote them, or give the time of the comment.
the number of the comment can change making it unclear what #96, for instance, is.
Aaron Worthing (f97997) — 10/9/2010 @ 7:39 amJavert_is_alive! (AKA …) – I think it’s pretty funny that now you have reduced your argument to merely quibbling over the definition of pedophilia. You agree that Knepper is damaging the Frim brand and that Frum should distance himself from him. There is no argument that Knepper is a Frum protege. Take the final step.
daleyrocks (940075) — 10/9/2010 @ 7:48 amPatterico:
I’m not sure what happened. Rather than link directly to the Horowitz article I linked to the Jury Talks Back one and it possible the links are slightly different. I don’t know. All I know is I clicked all of the links to Knepper’s commentary and when the articles did not add up to Horowitz description of them, I came to a pretty quick conclusion it was a hit job and started skimming the article a lot more quickly.
I am still seriously grossed out by the whole “Chilf” thing, being a dad myself. I mean, I was also Knepper’s age once, and I get that being attracted to 16 year olds when your still 20 is hardly a hanging offense.
But Alex’s rebuttal — that no one would thing it was a big deal if it was a 20 year old guy talking about a 16 year old girl that way — is complete bull, especially if I was the father of the 16 year old girl. In fact, I’d do everything I could to see to it the guy was arrested and thrown in jail. And, I don’t care how old you are, joking about “Chilfs” is just plain wrong.
And at the same time, what really is going on here with Horowitz? Given that the Frum association has spread the article to folks who never heard of Alex I’m not so sure they have the NYT v Sullivan defense to fall back on. And again, a good chunk of his comments are taken out of context, as though it wasn’t enough for him to be creepy, they had to make him look like the biggest monster they could find.
I should mention that Alex has been sounding off about his supposed mistreatment by Horowitz and his blog, saying it had something to do w/ him not properly respecting Ann Coulter, and he called out at least one of Horowitz’s people by name as a bigot. Given that, I can understand if Horowitz was motivated to go public to protect the reputation of one of his assistants. But running all over town to get a writer tossed from jobs for being a creep feels pretty dirty too.
I get that my thoughts are a little incoherent, but this is a pretty upsetting story for a lot of reasons. I guess the best way to sum it up is that the only one who looks good in this story is Andrew Breitbart. He did what he had to do but he wasn’t an ass about it.
Sean P (a82c1f) — 10/9/2010 @ 8:29 am“age of consent 16: Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Connecticut, District of Columbia, Georgia, Hawaii, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Vermont, Washington, West Virginia”
Wiki so… but in WV at least I know it’s 18 for ‘homosexual’
Ok, that out of the way… this guy is a piece of (insert knock-it-out-quote from JD) and Frum should kick him to the curb
Lord Nazh (ad60d6) — 10/9/2010 @ 8:45 am“But Alex’s rebuttal — that no one would thing it was a big deal if it was a 20 year old guy talking about a 16 year old girl that way — is complete bull, especially if I was the father of the 16 year old girl. In fact, I’d do everything I could to see to it the guy was arrested and thrown in jail.”
You wouldn’t succeed, since it’s 100% legal…not saying anything about whether it’s appropriate or not, I’m just saying it’s totally legal, so you couldn’t get him arrested for it.
Your New Best Friend (54697a) — 10/9/2010 @ 9:12 am#109: I wouldn’t succeed if I lived in Maryland, like Alex does. But I don’t live in Maryland, I live in California, where the age of consent is 18.
Sean P (a82c1f) — 10/9/2010 @ 9:35 amin relation to the age of consent, alot of them will add in age difference provisions. So sex between a 15 year old girl and a 17 year old guy might be legal. but if the guy is 40 it might be illegal.
Anyway, if i should have a daughter, if some 20+ year old guy tries to date her when she is 16, if the law doesn’t stop him, i will.
I mean, maybe he would still be interested in dating her after he is castrated, but i doubt it.
Aaron Worthing (f97997) — 10/9/2010 @ 9:42 amI’m just too creeped out to have any coherent thought on this.
SPQR (26be8b) — 10/9/2010 @ 10:09 amYou’re insane.
He uses the acronym “child i’d like to f___” repeatedly, among so many other disturbing comments. You already know he’s a pedophile. Anyone can read for themselves that he talks about his fantasy for a prepubescent “2 inch” size penis in his “pedo” fantasy, hairlessness, and on and on.
I’m sure you’re playing some kind of troll game. Defending pedophilia really is the best thing you can do with your time. I noticed you use the term “not appropriate”. That’s disturbing because some of those who prey on children pretend that’s all that wrong with their degeneracy.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 10/9/2010 @ 10:13 am@ Javert,
I am actually quite surprised you mis-represent a position to score cheap points like the otherallegedly bright people here.
Clearly you don’t know me. The last reason I’m here is to score points and it’s too bad you make such a poor assumption because I choose to see something differently than you. Perhaps you are concerned with scoring points, but I assure you it doesn’t cross my mind. It’s a bore.
I have a problem with the headline b/c one can easily infer (it implies) Frum is somehow involved in pedophilia.
One might, but clearly not everyone does. I didn’t and that is why I think it was important to ask the question and not make a declarative ssentence, “A David Frum Protege Has Tendencies Toward Pedophilia”. See?
If somehow the behaviour so blinds you with rage as it does others that you can’t see that then don’t know what to say.
I am not blinded by rage, Javert. I am disgusted and repelled. A healthy response, I believe. It’s a reprehensible subject and that Knepper is clearly connected to this makes it that much more troubling that Frum does not disassociate himself from Knepper.
With respect to condone behaviour — I don’t and I have stated several times yet you keep asking the same question. Again, a behaviour which speaks poorly to how you approach the main point.
I’ll try harder, Javert, to assume the main point is what you say it is. Of course it’s not possible you miss the point.
But yeah, all Frum is guilty of hanging out with a creepy guy until proven otherwise.
And again we part ways here – a “creepy guy” is way up the scale from what Knepper is. Obviously you give wider berth toward those involved in what most rational people condemn. You, and Frum apparently. Both troubling.
Dana (8ba2fb) — 10/9/2010 @ 10:22 amDANA + 3 POINTS
Scoreboard (b54cdc) — 10/9/2010 @ 10:30 amI had to catch my breath, but resuming my response to Javert:
Where were the third party references to Polanski frems alluding to them during that whole thing? Or are those people a little too close to Mr Frey that he dare not insult the powerful in LA with a similar headline??? And Polanski convicted.
I’m not sure why you included this response to me but speaking for myself, as I always do, I condemned repeatedly anyone who spoke up in support of Polanski – including the 125 (I think that’s the number) who signed the petition, and also repeatedly argued against them at several feminist blogs that unbelievably stood in defense of Polanski. I don’t know who Patrick associates with but I do know that he is no bootlicker – whether those boots are $2,000 Balenciagas or not.
Birds are still chirping over the core problem — the headline. All the rest are diversions by folks running to Uber Alles’s defense.
Those are not birds chirping, Javert, that is the repetitious drone of your ego.
I work here is done.
Dana (8ba2fb) — 10/9/2010 @ 10:41 amit’s all fun and games til someone jumps off the gw bridge
happyfeet (19c1da) — 10/9/2010 @ 10:48 amSo your wife is as stupid as you are. I’m hardly shocked by this revelation.
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 10/9/2010 @ 11:02 amOne caveat: attraction to the newly pubescent is not “pedophilia”, it is “ephebophilia” (attraction to youth). Pedophilia is attraction to pre-pubescent children.
One is an exaggeration of normal sexual attraction. A 14-year-old girl is probably fertile, often has developed breasts and pubic hair. She differs in degree, not kind, from an 18-year-old – and lots of perfectly normal men are attracted to 18-year-olds.
The other is attraction to a target which lacks the attributes of normal sexuality.
Another factor is that adolescents have their own sexual feelings – which they sometimes act on of their own will. Ephebophiles who encourage and exploit this behavior are criminals, though many rationalize it as “helping” the child learn about sex.
Pedophiles impose sexuality on pre-adolescents, who have no such feelings, nor even understand them.
The syndromes are not absolutely distinct. The ephebophile attracted to the barely pubescent become focused on the minimal qualities of the child’s sexual signs – which are even less in the pre-pubescent.
Rich Rostrom (f7aeae) — 10/9/2010 @ 11:11 amI couldn’t read the links – some topics I just can’t go to, mostly due to the real possibility of retching immediately.
This website is filled with amateur intellect
No, just the sockpuppeting trolls we’ve come to know and recognize quite easily over the past few years. The only people who constantly refuse to use their same identities are the ones who are so insecure and fearful of their own lack of intellect that they must continue to cloak their names for fear of being exposed.
Dmac (84da91) — 10/9/2010 @ 11:27 amAnyone who seriously wants to have sex with underage minors isn’t gay or somewhat unusual, they’re just sick people who need immediate help and therapy, if not outright incarceration. Arguing anything to the contrary says more about the arguer than the subject at hand.
Dmac (84da91) — 10/9/2010 @ 11:29 amwhere did my commenting go it disappeared for reals it’s not there anymore
happyfeet (19c1da) — 10/9/2010 @ 11:30 amThat is an incredibly poor reading of this headline.
Give me a freaking break.
Note that zero people have actually come to this conclusion in this thread.
Typical internet debate, though, to focus on something and attack attack attack, long after the claim is debunked. Javert realizes his assertion is so awful it begs a response, and is an effective way of changing the subject.
Debunk it, and he just asserts it again so someone else will debunk it.
Heavensent must really hate Patterico’s guts to defend Alex (which he absolutely has done, though he has also denied it).
Dustin (b54cdc) — 10/9/2010 @ 11:31 amJavert
There’s nothing to say about the headline. The headline is accurate, except perhaps with Rich’s refinement. It is not calling Frum a perv, just his protege. Are we not supposed to notice that he is his protege?
i am guessing you belong to the school of thought that conservatives have to be ridiculously careful about even unintentional misunderstandings. we saw a similar logic where the left claimed that Bush associated Saddam with 9-11, by mention them in the same paragraph, even when he specifically said saddam was not involved in 9-11.
I can’t stop these kinds of ridiculous arguments, but i don’t have to buy them either.
Aaron Worthing (f97997) — 10/9/2010 @ 11:40 amSean P – Did you try the links to the Red State piece and the links within that?
daleyrocks (940075) — 10/9/2010 @ 11:44 amA.W. – I believe Javert’s history on this site is to never admit he’s wrong even after completely beclowning himself, but then again I could be wrong about that.
daleyrocks (940075) — 10/9/2010 @ 11:50 amhappy,
That was an accident. It’s fixed now.
Patterico (c218bd) — 10/9/2010 @ 11:55 amok no worries I was just worried
happyfeet (19c1da) — 10/9/2010 @ 12:08 pmI’ve dealt with Knepper at Rightosphere, I thought he was just naive and illinformed because of his youth; it turns out the problem goes much deeper
ian cormac (6709ab) — 10/9/2010 @ 12:14 pmThe only people who constantly refuse to use their same identities are the ones who are so insecure and fearful of their own lack of intellect that they must continue to cloak their names for fear of being exposed.
Comment by Dmac — 10/9/2010 @ 11:27 am
Heh. Dmac, I must be the possessor of one of those amateur intellects Javert was referring to, because I was going for Diassociative Identity Disorder myself…but I can get behind insecurity and fear driving his multiple-handle bus. Or then again, maybe he’s just bored.
Dana (8ba2fb) — 10/9/2010 @ 12:44 pmDana – Go with the former.
daleyrocks (940075) — 10/9/2010 @ 12:48 pmEgomaniac with an inferiority complex.
daleyrocks (940075) — 10/9/2010 @ 12:49 pmIs it an inferiority complex if you’re inferior?
Patterico (c218bd) — 10/9/2010 @ 12:58 pmAre we talking about David Frum, or Jerry Brown?
AD-RtR/OS! (747679) — 10/9/2010 @ 1:09 pm“Is it an inferiority complex if you’re inferior?”
Patterico – Absolutely. If you are afraid that you are inferior to others, whether that feeling is real or imagined does not matter. If you are really inferior, it probably kicks in hardest when you have been acting superior and you are worried sick about people unmasking your real inferiority.
daleyrocks (940075) — 10/9/2010 @ 1:36 pmWow. Frum must really be hard up to accept a protege like that: Revolting views and not exceptionally talented.
First things first, I know Alex Knepper in the same way I know a lot of you folks on this blog. Knepper started out posting on Race42008 at least three years ago as “That Libertarian Guy”.
Is he still posing as a Libertarian?
Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (fb9e90) — 10/9/2010 @ 1:41 pmBradley, I hate to say it but extreme libertarian philosophy might approve such things. Of course, the same philosophy would have no problem with Ellie Nesler.
Mike K (568408) — 10/9/2010 @ 2:00 pmMike K,
ManKind Project (fb9e90) — 10/9/2010 @ 2:07 pmAll too true. Any belief system can be warped to justify what someone wants it to justify.
Funny, but I am still waiting for Patterico column besmirching a powerful, moneyed type from Hollywood who has not distanced himself from Polanski.
Let me also say the following, Pah-tea-ree-co picks fights b/c he knows he can win them and/or the downside to losing is zero. He never picks a fight he thinks he can lose or on might jeopardize his uber alles standing on the Public dime.
Makes for a good Prosecutor JF but it has nothing to do with integrity or honesty or principles.
Daley, you are the classic name caller and you never present any analysis. You ask simpleton questions which are transparent and usually have little to do with critical analysis. At least the others, try. You are the classic internet bully …. and you actually suck at it.
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/9/2010 @ 3:17 pmWow. Frum must really be hard up to accept a protege like that: Revolting views and not exceptionally talented.
Yup.
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/9/2010 @ 3:20 pm#124,
FIRST ISSUE:
I already re-wrote the headline to not only be structurally correct but to also leave the right impression in the readers mind. #19 but to repeat …..
New Headline: Does a Alex Knepper Have Tendencies Towards Pedophilia?
Sentence Change: Whether that person is Alex Knepper, a David Frum’s protege and up-and-coming writer, depends …
SECOND ISSUE:
http://www.jprof.com/onlinejn/webjn-headlines.html
… I like the “avoid ambiguity” part …. which is my issue with the Headline.
My wife has two graduate degrees, she read it and as most normal people would conclude about that headline ….. David Frum is somehow involved in sanctioning criminal activity or actually involved in it.
But the lawyers will argue all day about it b/c to say “Yeah, not exactly what I wanted to discuss” … is too much for them to accept from a peasant.
THIRD ISSUE:
If Patterico really thought Knepper was a pedophile then why the fuck does he say in his own headline TENDENCIES?
If Patterico bought the definition many here are now conveniently using for pedophile then he would have wrote “Is a David Frum protege a pedophile.”
Patterico, to his credit, is not stupid enough to call the guy a pedophile b/c he knows there is nothing in that string which he would label as being guilty of pedophilia.
Please address b/c I think any reasonable person would saying labeling someone a pedophile in this country, and in this day and age, is calling that person a criminal.
Calling anyone over the 18 who has sexual impulse towards a teenagers pedophile would render 99.89% of men pedophiles and 97.9% of women. But I am sure now we start arguing what a sexual impulse is ….
If you don’t believe me then try to explain Victoria Secret / Calvin Klein / et al successfully using 16 year old models on their covers and guys saying “she is hot” or “he is hot.”
A Pedophile, to me and I think Patterico, is a criminal. Period end of story. Not a person guilty of thought crimes.
Fourth Point:
The rest of this string as it relates to me is mostly bunch of huevones trying to pin something creepy on me when in fact I find nothing redeeming about a 20 year old gay perv.
I have two sons and he would not step within 5 feet of them b/c anyone so wantonly disseminating this type of creepy stuff has control issues.
But the fact a third person is friends with them …. may not like it but I would not run around trying to brow beat that person into doing something they clearly don’t want to do with incendiary writing.
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/9/2010 @ 3:45 pmJavert
> Funny, but I am still waiting for Patterico column besmirching a powerful, moneyed type from Hollywood who has not distanced himself from Polanski.
Well, first off, who is Polanski a protégé of?
Second, you want him to denounce Hollywood? A few minutes of searching gives me these.
https://patterico.com/2009/09/29/whoopi-polanski-did-not-commit-rape-rape/
That would be denouncing Whoopi Goldberg.
https://patterico.com/2009/09/30/harvey-weinstein-hollywood-has-the-best-moral-compass/
That would be denouncing Hollywood in general.
https://patterico.com/2009/10/07/patrick-goldstein-hollywood-doesnt-support-polanski-silly-what-they-gave-him-a-standing-ovation-hey-look-over-there/
That would be denouncing everyone who gave him a standing O at the Oscars.
Er, I mean a standing ovation. I am sure many little girls gave him “standing O” in a very different way.
And that is a 5 minute search. Patterico has never held fire about these hollywood idiots. if i had to guess he was like me and generally didn’t care what they said.
Aaron Worthing (f97997) — 10/9/2010 @ 3:56 pm@113 – Hairlessness?! I’m a straight guy and I like a smooth body. Does that make me a pedophile?!
Your New Best Friend (54697a) — 10/9/2010 @ 3:57 pm#142
1979 Tess
1986 Pirates
1988 Frantic
1992 Bitter Moon
1994 Death and the Maiden
1999 The Ninth Gate
2002 The Pianist
2005 Oliver Twist
2007 To Each His Own Cinema
2010 The Ghost Writer
Here is a list of movies a convicted Pedophile has made. The volume of names in Los Angeles who have worked to make these movies is long. When Patterico asks all those people the same question he asks David Frum — I will listen.
Till then PF is following an old axiom of “don’t shit where you eat” and last I check this had nothing to do with principles or the other moral horse crap I read about here.
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/9/2010 @ 4:01 pm#143, I find it hard to understand many poster’s opinions on this other than to call it a mix of Frum hating, repulsion of an individual’s words and fear of “what if, maybe, posibly” line of reasoning that comes when you suspect someone of a crime.
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/9/2010 @ 4:04 pmOnly if it is because it makes the dude you’re about to have sex with look way young.
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 10/9/2010 @ 4:07 pmThough to be fair, you have trouble understanding anything…
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 10/9/2010 @ 4:08 pm#147, Again name calling but nothing of analysis to argue the main points.
The headline is unfair to Frum for the reasons noted.
If Patterico thought he was a pedophile as you all write that he is (based on a loose definition of it) then Patterico himself would have re-written the headline. But Patterico is precise even if completely off base. That way no law suits.
I have a pretty good idea of what is going on in this thread and it starts with a Lawyer pursuing some type of vendetta while his acolytes wringing their hands trying to justify it.
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/9/2010 @ 4:14 pmYa know what, I am done here. If Frum wishes to defend himself great. His/their fight not mine — they can all drop dead for all I care.
Javert_is_alive! (AKA ...) (4f78d0) — 10/9/2010 @ 4:20 pmWe’ve argued your “points” countless times, you dipshit.
That you actively seek to not understand is neither our fault, nor our problem.
Frum employs someone who wants to have sex with very young boys. The desire to have sex with young boys makes that person a pedophile – if he acts upon it, he is a child molester.
So follow me here, you great thundering moron – Knepper wants to have sex with young boys, and finds it difficult to become sexually aroused when his partner does NOT look very young. Knepper, as a 20 year old, has had sex with a 16 year old that looked young. Frum employs Knepper, and in fact Knepper is his “protege”. Frum has been made aware several times of Knepper’s predilections, and yet refuses to distance himself from Knepper.
I don’t give a damn about Frum. I don’t read his stuff, I don’t plan on reading his stuff, and I don’t care what happens to him.
This is not about Frum, save to bring public awareness to who he employs. It is the hope that frum WILL distance himself from Knepper.
Once he does that, I find it likely we’ll never mention the guy again.
But yes, please continue to think that this is about FRUM, and not the pedophile he employs.
Oh, and another thing… I am the one who posted the main thread over at The Jury, NOT Patterico. He linked to it at MY request.
And I didn’t even Write what I posted.
Which you would know, you retard, if you even once READ the post.
But you didn’t. So you don’t.
So fuck off.
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 10/9/2010 @ 4:28 pmJavert
First, I warned you about numerical references. The numbers can change and that can get confusing. I think most of it was because happyfeet was caught in the spam filter, but its better to avoid them.
Second notice the moving of goalposts. First you said:
> I am still waiting for Patterico column besmirching a powerful, moneyed type from Hollywood
When I showed you many, you then changed it up to this:
> Here is a list of movies a convicted Pedophile has made. The volume of names in Los Angeles who have worked to make these movies is long. When Patterico asks all those people the same question he asks David Frum — I will listen.
And what a ridiculous standard that is anyway. As you admit the list is very long. So does he have to write for each one? I mean as I pointed out he has denounced pretty much all of Hollywood. What more do you want from the man?
And what question did he ask David Frum anyway? “Does a David Frum Protege Have Tendencies Towards Pedophilia?” Well, goodie, so I suppose you want him to ask, say, Adrian Brody the same question? “Does an Andrian Brody protégé have tendencies toward pedophilia?” oh, except Polanski is not the protégé.
> PF is following an old axiom of “don’t shit where you eat”
Except as I pointed out he did shit where he ate. You just are upset he has not taken every single plate out of his cabinet and shit on it individually. Which is, at the very least, pretty time consuming.
> last I check[ed] this had nothing to do with principles or the other moral horse crap I read about here.
Well, let’s say for the sake of argument that Patterico is a giant hypocrite on the subject. Does that make him wrong, here?
But it’s the oldest liberal tactic. Call the other side hypocrites. A hypocrite is a person who is inconsistent in their principles. But in order to be a hypocrite you have to have principles in the first place.
Aaron Worthing (f97997) — 10/9/2010 @ 5:08 pmScott – If you do anything, please don’t insult the thundering moron again. It must be tough to go through live being so dense and believing you’re being persecuted all the time. He’s pigheaded and egotistical, but he’s a sensitive guy.
daleyrocks (940075) — 10/9/2010 @ 5:25 pm“Knepper, as a 20 year old, has had sex with a 16 year old that looked young.”
If every 20 year old who wanted to have sex with a 16 year old is a pedophile, then that convicts like, 98% of 20 year old males!! This is an insane standard! If you want to go after Knepper for something, do it for something other than THAT.
Your New Best Friend (54697a) — 10/9/2010 @ 5:31 pmYou are inserting a word that does not exist in the evidence listed. He didn’t merely “want to”, he DID. The act is not theoretical, but actual.
And You also prove you didn’t bother to read the post. If you thought that was the ONLY damning thing, then you couldn’t have.
So you, too, can fuck right off.
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 10/9/2010 @ 5:40 pm^WTF are you blabbering about? Your post is not only not logical, it’s nonsensical. Try breathing into a paper bag next time before taking up your keyboard. Or, better yet, tie the bag around your head tightly until you pass out. But again, maybe that kind of thing turns you on, judging by your furious defense of the pedo – perves.
Dmac (84da91) — 10/9/2010 @ 5:59 pmThe only cure for pedophilia is two gallons of kerosene and a match.
nk (db4a41) — 10/9/2010 @ 6:25 pmRead the article. If you did, and realize he is interested in children, and are still defending him for the lulz, that’s one hell of a waste of time.
He calls his own views “pedo”.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 10/9/2010 @ 6:39 pmnk
thanks to our supreme court, you can’t execute a person merely for raping a child, even forcibly. Kennedy v. Louisiana.
Of course the day after that decision the SC ruled in favor of gun rights, leading more than a few of my friends to argue that this mooted Kennedy v. Louisiana. Heh.
Aaron Worthing (f97997) — 10/9/2010 @ 7:42 pmThe headline is unfair to Frum for the reasons noted.
Javert, do you not understand that not everyone, and frankly almost no one, agrees with this?
And it’s fine that there is disagreement but you accused me of mis-representation when I disagreed with you and attempted to explain why I did. That is not a good faith argument or discussion.
It’s also weird that you launch this attack at Patterico re H-wood and Polanski supporters. Clearly, if you read the links provided you at #142, he has posted more than several times against Polanski and friends. Is he supposed to go through the cast list of each movie and write a post against each member? You are becoming ridiculous. And I can’t figure out why…
In an odd way, I appreciated the Heavensent who was straight-up enough to own being a racist and misogynist (at a previous thread) – not that I find either admirable of course, but honesty is honesty and it’s rare that one who is a racist and misogynist is honest and direct about it. I can deal with honesty. But when you turned to insulting and game playing (referring to your obstinate refusal to understand that some do not think the way you do and cannot agree that associating and having a relationship with someone like Knepper is a-okay), you lost me. Any idiot can shoot insults, be stubborn, and refuse to see a point.
I have a pretty good idea of what is going on in this thread and it starts with a Lawyer pursuing some type of vendetta while his acolytes wringing their hands trying to justify it.
You seem to be going for some sort of conspiracy theory here but as a long-time reader, I think it’s a troubling issue that is current in the news, David Frum has a love-hate relationship with R’s and reaches a multitude of people. It’s post-worthy; it clearly asks a question (see title again!); and readers can sift through the links and make their own decisions. Your statement alone assumes the worst of Patterico. Why would you do that?
You accuse those who might think differently than you of being hand-wringing acolytes. Again insulting. Why not just commenters who view it very differently than you, and whho have independently and critically thought through the issue without needing the approval of Patterico or anyone else.
…or is it just that amateur intellect making an appearance?
Dana (8ba2fb) — 10/9/2010 @ 8:18 pmbtw, overheard when Kneppler was talking to a boy named Joey:
“Joey, do you like movies about gladiators?”
Sorry to joke, its in my dna to do it.
Aaron Worthing (f97997) — 10/10/2010 @ 5:13 pmComment by Javert_is_alive! (AKA …) — 10/9/2010 @ 4:20 pm
IOW…”I work here is done!”
AD-RtR/OS! (ba4174) — 10/10/2010 @ 5:27 pm