Patterico's Pontifications


Palin Says She Will Run in 2012 If Nobody Else “Steps Up”

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:30 am

Details at Hot Air.

Remember: you don’t get to vote for the “idea” of Sarah Palin. If she runs, Americans will have to cast a vote for her.

In fact, supporting the “idea” of a candidate, as certain bloggers have suggested they are doing with Christine O’Donnell (while pointedly disclaiming that they are fully invested in the notion of the candidate herself as a “hill to die on”) is the type of thinking that got us Barack Obama. People voted for the “idea” of Hope and Change, and got something quite different in reality.

It is blind idealism, and it is dangerous on the left and on the right.

Will we follow that path with Sarah Palin — that is, if nobody else “steps” up?

Or will we confront the candidate as she exists in real life — with whatever faults and flaws she has — and decide whether that candidate is worth staking our hopes on?

Time will tell.

223 Responses to “Palin Says She Will Run in 2012 If Nobody Else “Steps Up””

  1. The difference is that Palin has/will face a hostile press.

    Steven Den Beste (99cfa1)

  2. For what it’s worth, I have always been in favor of the “idea” of Christine O’Donnell — and Sarah Palin, for that matter.

    Never have I criticized the “idea” — just the people themselves.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  3. She gets the treatment either way, Steven, I don’t go by the ‘idea’ of her, as with everything I else
    I know what the real person has done, as much as that is attainable

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  4. against Obama, or Hillary…I would joyfully fill in the Palin circle on the ballot … she could not possibly be worse for the nation. But I’d also vote for the Dick Nixon against either of those two. Hell, I might vote for Carter against Obama … but it’s a close call.

    quasimodo (4af144)

  5. If there is no other choice, then of course I’d pull the trigger for her. But there’s going to be a plethora of choices, and I think more than one will prove to be a very effective counterpoint to her personality. I don’t look forward to a POTUS that speaks like Marge in Fargo.

    Dmac (d61c0d)

  6. Look “idea” monkey let me give you a clue no charge.

    Make a case for the ‘career polititian’ in the US Senate.

    This isn’t fantasy football, fool.

    gary gulrud (790d43)

  7. Remember: you don’t get to vote for the “idea” of Sarah Palin

    Hell, I’m voting for the idea of Tina Fey.

    Kevin (298030)

  8. well, the reality of sarah palin is better than the reality of Obama. But as they say, its a low bar.

    personally i would rather have bobby jindall, or in a real pipe dream, rudy guiliani. mind you rudy is not a pipe dream because i think he wouldn’t do a good job–i believe he would. he’s a pipe dream because he will never get the nod.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  9. Well, the “Nobody else steps up” part is something that Palin herself will have to set the parameters on over the next 8-14 months.

    Under the current political climate, it’s going create a huge field of Republicans itching to run against Obama in 2012, and if Palin waits until the field already is gathering, it’s going to be an implicit statement that she finds those candidates wanting when it comes to what she thinks a presidential candidate should be (as opposed to Palin jumping into the race early and making any other challengers decide to implicitly say she’s wanting by then joining the race against her).

    John (e3fdad)

  10. @5: I would eagerly vote for Marge Gunderson for president. She’s one of the great heroes of cinema: competent, persistent, compassionate, with excellent supervisory and people skills, and a faithful loving wife.

    As much as I like Palin, I must say she’s no Marge Gunderson.

    gp (72be5d)

  11. btw, off topic, but here is a post with scattered links and interesting stuff.

    First Conyers tried to stop the circus of having Stephen Colbert testify, in character, before congress. sigh

    We got some muslim support for molly norris.

    And atlas shrugs has a pretty horrifying account of women being raped and liberals covering it up because it might hurt their pet causes.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  12. I am not clear what you are saying, Pat. Is your basic point that she is unelectable, or that she is not competent enough to be president, or both?

    She would beat BHO in 2012 – heck, a ham sandwich would. As to competence, her principles are excellent and as always, it would come down to her staffing. Reagan wasn’t exactly Carter when it came to the wonkiness part of governing. But, he brought him some folks who knew how to get things done. I am confident Palin would do the same.

    Ed from SFV (44a863)

  13. Ed from SFV,

    She would lose, big.

    gary gulrud,

    What on Earth are you taking about?

    Patterico (97f743)

  14. Because of Christine O’Donnell and Palin choosing to endorse her — and, as the case with many of the rightist voters in Delaware, did Palin not do her homework?! — I’m not too confident in one and the other. However, the only other thing I have even less — far less — confidence in is the ongoing nonsensical leftist tilt of America (if not Western society in general).

    Mark (3e3a7c)

  15. As much as I like Palin, I must say she’s no Marge Gunderson.

    FYI – I wasn’t making a comparison between competency, I was making a comparison between the increasing schtickiness in her “grizzly mama bear” nostrums and extreme hokiness. She was never this obvious, and she’s getting worse.

    Dmac (d61c0d)

  16. She is sincere, sometimes naively so, she is already
    running in the sense of setting the agenda,

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  17. I am in my Spartan (or if you wish Japnese) phase. You don’t have to win. You just need to fight.

    nk (db4a41)

  18. To paraphrase what Mikey Kaus once said about John Kerry, there are two things that worry me about Sarah Palin. The first is the possibility that she would lose to Barak Obama. The second is the possibility that she would win.

    I’d rather we go with Christie or Daniels.

    Sean P (4fde41)

  19. I would much rather see Palin run for the senate seat that comes up in 2012 for Alaska. She would be a great candidate and would be far more effective than she would be as a POTUS candidate.

    BarSinister (a213bc)

  20. I like the idea, and values, of Sarah Palin. But as Ed from SFV pointed out above, it’s not just the President who is necessary to successfully implement a political agenda. The President must have a solidly-credentialed team who can implement the President’s policy vision. As much as I like her, I honestly do not see Palin surrounded or supported by such a team. If she could gather that team, then I’d fall fully into supporting her, the candidate.

    509th Bob (bafbcb)

  21. These arguments get twisty quickly. The real issue is much more simple: four more years of BHO.

    So maybe a better question, Patterico, is this one:

    Who could run for President in 2012 that would lead you to vote for BHO?

    Remembering that sitting out the election, or voting for a third party candidate, misses the point.

    The question I pose is the important one, I think.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  22. A number of you seem to state opinions based very little knowledge of her demonstrated abilities as a leader. Let me share a post that appeared at other websites:

    Every once in a while I visit the Indiana University Water Cooler Discussion board. Today I saw a post over there that I thought would be of interest here. Keep in mind that most of the posters there are ultra liberal, so I’m sure it made their heads explode.

    Here it is:

    CO. Hoosier, I’m not even sure that I can be classified as a “Palin fan”, but I am kind of an observer. An old school buddy of mine has worked within the Alaska legislature for the last twenty years or so. He’s a registered Democrat and has worked on projects that allowed him to cross paths with her going back when she was a city commissioner, as the mayor, and as the governor.

    He told me that the picture painted of her as a mindless ideologue is about 180 degrees off base. He said that over the years, he’d probably dealt with her a couple of dozen times and that her input and/or decisions were always supported by law and not by personal beliefs.

    The thing he told me about her that really peaked my interest of her was her ability to process information and then to quickly forge a plan with the information she was given. He said she was a living, breathing CPM chart. He said he had seen her on multiple occasions on a variety of subjects instantly absorb input from others and then respond with cogent solutions to problems. He said if you put her in a room with a bunch of people, the chances would be great that she’d be the smartest one in the room.

    He told me that when he saw her debacle with Katie Couric, his first thought was, “who is that Sarah Palin imposter?” He said that was not the Sarah Palin he had worked with for years. He was sure that the interview was highly edited. It came out later that there was almost six hours of the interview that people didn’t see.

    He told me that if I really wanted to get a feel of who she is and how she dealt with powerful people, I should read the book, “Sarah Takes On Big Oil”. It was released in October, 2008 and written by two of the state’s top oil & gas editors. The lady they described had no fear to stand toe-to-toe with heavyweights and leave them slinking away with their tails between their legs. She told them that she was the advocate of the citizens of Alaska and there would be no deal making that would adversely affect them. The big boys at Exxon-Mobile and BP folded like a cheap suit.

    One other thing he told me that still amazes him was how she managed to get people to work together. According to him, she could take two people with opposing opinions, sit down with them, listen to them, offer her solutions, and both guys would leave happy and not feeling that they had compromised their position at all.

    He laughed at the “she doesn’t read” meme. He said it is well known in the capitol that she was a voracious reader. She truly did read most of the national mags and newspapers, mostly on line, as well as a dozen or so energy trade magazines. According to him, there were stories about how she would take home stacks of papers and reports to prepare for a next-morning meeting and it was as if every word of those reports were stamped into her brain when she sat down at the meeting.

    He told me not to be fooled by her syntax or her colloquialisms because they were not a fair barometer of her smarts. He said if people would just listen and not try to read between the lines, she was easy to understand. He said he’d love to see her and Obama in a debate about energy or even healthcare. He said she’d clean his clock. He even said that if she were given a day or two to prepare for a debate on foreign affairs, his money would still be on her.

    He said she was the epitome of a leader. She assembled her staff, listened to their advice, allowed opposing ideas to be heard, and then acted accordingly. As a manager, she advocated making a plan based on the best info available, budgeting the plan, working the plan, measuring results, and quickly adjusting the plan if it was determined it wasn’t working as expected. She believed in the First Law of Holes.

    He thought her biggest struggles in the 2008 campaign were the product of trying to endorse McCain’s positions on issues. She was able to voice her dissenting opinion on ANWR because her views were known, but on everything else she was expected to toe the McCain line. He said that she lacked the ability to shovel crap and sell it as perfume.

    He reminded me that anyone who denies the accuracy of her “death panel” metaphor should go back and read her exact words, both her initial FB post and her rebuttal of Obama’s attack on her words. He said “read what she wrote, not what someone wrote or said what she wrote”. Her words in those posts have already been proven to be true.

    He said that “divisive” is not a word that should be used to describe her. He said that was just a simple use of Alinsky’s rule #13. He said, “look at all the issues. Her position is in line with the majority on virtually all of them”.

    He told me she wasn’t perfect, but if I read something or heard something that was negative, I should check it out a little closer. He shared a lot more, but I’m afraid I’ve already rambled on for too long.

    Should she run in 2012? I really don’t know. Would I vote for her? It depends who she’s running against. Will she drive the agenda if she doesn’t run? Yes, for a long time.

    RefudiateObama2012 (6b0aa4)

  23. As a progressive Democrat, I hope you realize that the mere whisper of “Palin 2012” brings joy to my heart and a spring to my step. Even if she doesn’t get the nomination (and at the end of the day, I don’t think she would get it), she’ll continue polarizing the right in a way which can only benefit Democrats in the general election.

    Then again, we know how to mess up a sure thing.

    Kman (d25c82)

  24. kman is just mendoucheous, but, I pray someone steps up so we are not subjected to Palin. I don’t think we are going to beat Barcky this time around, so maybe it wouldn’t be a bad idea to run her just to get it out of everyone’s system.

    JD (4a3b1f)

  25. Sarah will win

    3 months later, people will be wondering if they did the right thing

    EPWJ (17f94c)

  26. Wouldn’t it suck if your Hope and Change Guy lost to someone for whom you had so little respect?

    How would that make you feel, since you are the smart, hip voter who elected someone who…well, didn’t do the things he said he would do. Treated you like a rube. Golfed more than GWB. Had fewer press conferences. Can’t speak without a teleprompter.

    Your guy, remember, who is doing some, um, not so smart thing. Your vote.

    There is no “we” about it, friend.

    I feel sorry for you: the DNC treated treated you like a rube, and rube you are.

    So your opinions on national politics are, um, not very reliable at present. Are they?

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  27. “gary gulrud,

    What on Earth are you taking about?”

    A butt-full of snark and a begged question is no argument. The “idea” of O’Donnell came to ballot in 2006.

    DE Republican voters say an ex-whore is more deserving of their trust than an careerist they know like the back of their hand.

    Your pissing on their judgement, without bothering to present a plausible case recognizing the real power brokers in a divided Senate is what I’m talking about. Specious conjecture, stuff, BeffinS has been your currency. Use real, current examples not unexamined assumptions.

    gary gulrud (790d43)

  28. That’s just it, she will decide to run, or not, she will take advice from her family, from the kitchen
    cabinet, like Schueneman, Recher, et al. But the decision will be all hers, I’m struck how critics
    miss basic details, like that Senate election isn’t due till 2014, ignore her postions on the issues,
    most everything that is substantial, and rely on the memes, that has really gotten us far

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  29. Who could run for President in 2012 that would lead you to vote for BHO?

    Al Sharpton. Or, in an alternative universe — were he born and living in the US — Hugo Chavez.

    …but if I read something or heard something that was negative, I should check it out a little closer

    But how did she botch the rather simple task of scrutinizing and judging Christine O’Donnell? Of course, I do have the advantage of seeing the recently publicized and very non-flattering comments made about O’Donnell by her former campaign manager. But how could such things not have filtered down to Palin?

    Mark (3e3a7c)

  30. PALIN OR PAUL 2012!


    PRINCIPLES!!!!!! (or Purity, whatever)

    daleyrocks (940075)

  31. I have thought that she needs a brain trust to educate her on issues she hasn’t dealt with. Foreign policy is one. Margaret Thatcher did that when she was a junior minister in Ted Heath’s government. I don’t know if she is doing it or even if she wants to run for president. If she doesn’t, she will have a lot to say about who does. Chris Christie has said he won’t run and I believe him. Paul Ryan has too much to do to try to get the economy on track. Mitch Daniels is working against the short man syndrome but Bush wasn’t much taller. I would not discount her like the typical Democrat above does. I think even Bill Clinton knows how tough she would be as a candidate.

    Mike K (568408)

  32. non-flattering comments made about O’Donnell by her former campaign manager.

    That must be a reliable source ! Thanks for a chuckle.

    Mike K (568408)

  33. Gary: seriously dude, if you’re going to insist on wearing a tin foil hat at least have the foresight to change it every once in awhile. The aluminum is leaching into your brain.

    Sean P (4fde41)

  34. “She would lose, big.”

    I don’t think polling data supports that contention at all…and that’s the only data we have.

    She has about the same poll numbers as Obama (favorable/unfavorable), and she’s more popular as a presidential candidate than any other Republican.

    But, it’s a long, long time ’til 2012; I’d hold off worrying about it for now.

    Dave Surls (5d385a)

  35. Patterico,

    How well do you think she would perform in a series of debates with Obama?

    aunursa (1b5bad)

  36. Schueneman and Beigum, the McCain staffers who defended her publicly when Schmidt and Wallace
    were slandering her, anonymously, are on her payroll, along with a few other key people for
    domestic policy along with other issues.

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  37. Kman: As a progressive Democrat, I hope you realize that the mere whisper of “Palin 2012″ brings joy to my heart and a spring to my step.

    Be careful what you wish for.

    aunursa (1b5bad)

  38. “A butt-full of snark and a begged question is no argument.”

    gary gulrud – Then why don’t you write something more substantive in your comments for a change.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  39. “Your pissing on their judgement, without bothering to present a plausible case recognizing the real power brokers in a divided Senate is what I’m talking about.”

    gary gulrud – Precious, coming from the guy who pissed all over Patterico’s posts before admitting that he had not read the underlying material upon which they were based.

    You go gary. Your credibility here is increasing as we speak.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  40. “The aluminum is leaching into your brain”

    We don’t know our periodic table, do we? Aluminum forms insoluble oxides on exposure to air. Perhaps you should get some, Huffy.

    gary gulrud (790d43)

  41. There are lots of people underneath Palin’ steam roller who laughed at her in the hard hat.

    Heavensent (e230a5)

  42. Comment by RefudiateObama2012 — 9/24/2010

    Well worth the price of admission. Much obliged.

    gary gulrud (790d43)

  43. Judging by the screen name, RefudiateObama seems to be a Palin fan. So I’m hoping that the content of his comment is for real. It would be great to think that beneath the Good Old Gal exterior there is a superior mind.

    But that’s the rub, isn’t it? The “idea” of Palin is that ordinary Americans can govern their own country – without depending on Yale and Harvard grads. Maybe even write laws that regular people could understand and follow.

    But how can we tell who the “real” Palin is when much of what we’ll get is filtered through (or created by) the media, or by her own spinners. Nobody gets to just be themselves. They always have to be costumed, coached, and cast in a certain light.

    Personally, I like her. But I’ve got an instinctive distrust of people who pretend to academic superiority. I think that’s Obama’s problem, one of them. He’s not as smart as people think he is.

    Palin is the opposite. She’s not as dumb as people think she is. But how far do those go toward meeting or passing in the middle?

    Gesundheit (cfa313)

  44. Christie, Daniels, Jindahl, Pawlenty, Romney, Pence, Gingrich, Huckabee,…

    Pretty crowded field taking on .. Hillary.

    Oh, I think Palin might make it past super Tuesday. Could be a convention with multiple ballots.

    gary gulrud (790d43)

  45. “Aluminum forms insoluble oxides on exposure to air.”

    gary – Don’t leap to the conclusion that anyone here assumed you live in earth-type atmosphere.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  46. Damn, interesting insights on Palin..but she needed to do two terms as a governor to put forth that image to the nation at large to counteract the old image from 2008. It’s bad enough being governor of a remote, low-pop state.

    If she weren’t as attractive as she is, she would have any more chance than the governor of Montana.

    carol (5a5d33)

  47. But that’s the rub, isn’t it? The “idea” of Palin is that ordinary Americans can govern their own country – without depending on Yale and Harvard grads.

    And that’s what the problem is: a country, especially one like the United States, is not supposed to be governed by “ordinary” citizens. I don’t believe in the Great Man/Woman myth, I even find it toxic to a sane democracy, but taking the average Joe as the measure of everything is just as poisonous. That being said, being an Ivy-leaguer is obviously not a guarantee of intelligence and ethical behavior – and perfectly respectable prez like Lincoln, Truman or Reagan did quite well without it.

    Triumph (0692b1)

  48. As has been pointed out, the boomeranging of the ethics code, that she passed to staunch a real scandal, made that very unlikely

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  49. _________________________________________

    That must be a reliable source ! Thanks for a chuckle.

    Sorry, Mike K. But unless the following can’t be taken at face value, I’d have a tough time giving O’Donnell much benefit of the doubt. Plus, if Palin had any sense of the true nature of O’Donnell, she should have, at the very least, stood back and withheld any endorsement of the candidate. Christine O’Donnell’s former campaign manager has recorded an Election Day robocall for the Delaware Republican Party meant to shred the tea-party-backed candidate’s conservative credentials as voters head to the polls.

    The call features the voice of Kristin Murray, who ran O’Donnell’s 2008 Senate campaign against then-Sen. Joe Biden, and who charges that her old boss “is no conservative.”

    “I got into politics because I believe in conservative values and wanted to make a difference. But I was shocked to learn that O’Donnell is no conservative,” says Murray, according to a script obtained by POLITICO.

    “This is her third Senate race in five years. As O’Donnell’s manager, I found out she was living on campaign donations — using them for rent and personal expenses, while leaving her workers unpaid and piling up thousands in debt,” she says.

    Perhaps the most biting line in the call delivered by Murray: “She wasn’t concerned about conservative causes. O’Donnell just wanted to make a buck.”

    But Murray says in the call that O’Donnell’s less-than-noble motives are why she left the campaign, and are the reason “why I won’t trust O’Donnell with my hard-earned tax dollars.”

    In an interview, Murray said she had been reluctant to speak out about O’Donnell until she saw her campaign gaining traction and becoming a real threat to win the primary. She said she agreed to record the call only Monday, after being approached by Ross, and had complete control over the script.

    “Obviously, I don’t think I would be doing an ad for the state party if they fired me,” she told POLITICO Tuesday afternoon. “And I’m not a big fan of Castle either; I wasn’t going to be, ‘Rah-rah Castle.’ I just wanted people to know it’s more about who is better on taxes. You’re dealing with someone who is a complete fraud.”

    Murray said she voluntarily left her position as executive director of the state party to run O’Donnell’s second Senate run in June 2008, after the candidate pleaded with her three different times to sign on. She left the position two months later, after she found out O’Donnell doesn’t have a college degree, had foreclosed on her home and was using the campaign debit card for personal expenses.

    “It just amounted to too much,” she said. “The reason she’s running is so she can pay her rent, pay her electricity bill. If it was popular to be really liberal now, maybe she’d do that,” Murray said.

    Murray’s call marks the second time a former O’Donnell campaign staffer has come forward in recent days to publicly rebuke the former television commentator’s candidacy.

    David Keegan, a former O’Donnell aide, told The New York Times earlier this month that when he found out about O’Donnell’s personal financial problems, he decided he could no longer work for her. “We are constantly trying to hold her back from spending. She was financially completely irresponsible,” Keegan told the Times.

    ^ Then again, dealing with O’Donnell at this stage — certainly in the context of predominantly leftwing Delaware — is pretty much a case of “closing the barn door after the horse has bolted.”

    Mark (3e3a7c)

  50. Yes, except the documemts actually disprove two of
    those charges, yes we’ve heard similar from Bitney, who crashed and burned Murkowski’s campaign and Persilly who was rewarded by the Obama administration, by badmouthing her during the campaign

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  51. I can see how people supporting Tardin may want to vote for O’Dumbass. But reasonable, rational, sentient people? Are there still some on the Right?

    Triumph (0692b1)

  52. I’m a little befuddled by the assertions by some on the Conservative side of the political spectrum who dismiss Sarah Palin. We have at least one commenter here who has made some substantive comments about her leadership and intelligence when she was in office in Alaska. The rest of the comments, including Pat’s seem to be some kind of freewheeling dismissal of her as a viable candidate.

    I can understand the Left telling us she’s a back-woods hick who never read anything in her life, but specifically what is it about her or her ideas or comments that make people who should be her natural allies dismiss her? Because she didn’t graduate from Haaarvad or Yale? We’re being run by those people now. How’s that working out for you? Is it credentials you’re looking for? From which college did Lincoln graduate? A clue: he neither attended college or law school. How about Harry Truman? Look it up. Are you making the argument that it’s harder to run a 21st century American than a 19th or 20th century one? Prove it.

    Is it her folksiness? Want someone cold who tells us that the US can absorb another terrorist attack and we’ll be fine – stronger than ever? Vote Obama.

    Here’s some Palin in her own words.

    Is this the sign of a stupid ditz? Is this the sign of someone who can be steamrollered by the NY Times? The majority of the American people now have greater disdain for the MFM than for used car salesmen.

    Come on, Pat, what is the substance of your attitude about Palin. Give us some reasons.

    Moneyrunner (53e425)

  53. I’m looking forward for other Repub candidates to declare so there will be more to talk about than repeating the same things about Palin.

    Yes, I know I don’t have to read posts here if I don’t like them, but I like “the idea of a place where sane conversation takes place”, and since the ideal doesn’t exist, I vote with my feet (or mouse) to come here instead.

    I like the idea of a member of the House or Senate that will not vote party line with Obama. If there was a shread of intellectual integrity in the media that would be most people’s idea as well, but there isn’t so it’s not.

    I agree with Gesundheit that I’d like to know that the letter from RefudiateObama is real rather than urban legion, and I don’t doubt it could be. FCOL (for crying out loud), at one time she was a governor with over an 80% approval rating and even after mixed feelings over resigning as governor the people of Alaska back her choices over the Repub incumbant (as they did when they elected her), so she must have something going for her, either that or eating salmon isn’t so good for your brain after all.

    It will be interesting to see what direction things will go. Will the “Repub Establishment” get the message and push an alternative person who appeals to the more conservative base, or will they push for an alternative to the more conservatives and hope to do better than many of the state races?

    Unfortunately, the real question may be who the Dems decide will be our candidate in New Hampshire. What are the voting registration laws in NH anyway? Can we all take a 2 week skiing vacation and vote legally?

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  54. That is a legitimate concern, as Steele and company, have done nothing to either close the primaries, or otherwise prevent that kind od skulduggery that was attempted with “Operation

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  55. triumph

    we have had the so-called best of the best running this country for years. look where it has gotten us. let’s try injecting some more real world experience into politics, and lawmaking, for a change.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  56. Regarding the questions about Palin’s alleged expertise on all matter of imporant things – her interview with a complete brain – dead Couric pretty much said it all on that issue. Couric gave her lightweight questions, and she looked completely out of her depth on many of them. I don’t care whether r not she was coached incorrectly by McCain’s quislings on the interview, when you cannot even answer a simple question like “what magazines do you read on a regular basis?” without looking ridiculous you’re not a serious candidate, IMHO. Even worse was the Gibson interview – he was clearly laying for her, yet she still fumbled his inane and obvious attempts to make her look bad. Christie would’ve made mincemeat of either of those hacks, yet Palin was creamed by them both. Since we have to assume that the MFM’s going to be their usual overtly hostile self no matter who the GOP candidate is for 2012, we can and must do a lot better than Palin in that regard.

    Dmac (d61c0d)

  57. MD in Philly:

    What I see is that there is very little that is being said about any of the avowed Republican hopefuls with the exception of Chris Christie, and he’s said that he’s not running. The rest of the field has the charisma of dead fish. So the focus is on Sarah Palin with her defenders pushing her to run and her detractors telling us that she’s unviable because … well, just because the MFM is not in her camp.

    Newsflash for you! The MFM is never in the camp of the candidate with the “R” after his party affiliation. John McCain (R, Media) was their candidate until the Dems chose theirs and then he became “too old,” with the bad judgment to choose a hick from Alaska as his running mate. At his age he could croak, you know and then we would have this stupid ditz who could not read and could see Russia from her home. So vote for the smart, cool, hip guy with the impeccable crease in his pants who would cause the oceans to fall and the planet to cool.

    The bad news: the MFM is never going to approve of you. The good news: that’s not going to matter very much. That 15% edge that the MFM is going to give the Democrat is wishful thinking.

    By the way, voting in NH on a skiiing vacation is OK with the Obama Justice department, if you’re the right color. See Chris Coates testimony today.

    Moneyrunner (53e425)

  58. Dmac,

    Give me six hours of video tape to edit into 30 minutes and I can have you committed to an asylum.

    Moneyrunner (53e425)

  59. pat, that’s like ‘supporting our troops’ but against the war. WTF?

    As to faults and flaws, depends on who’s judging what a flaw or fault is.

    If we leave it up to the left or the right elites, then we’re behind the curve from the start.

    That was my complaint about all the snarky, snide, sniping done by those on the right over O’Donnell; what’s the point of helping the (supposed) opposition? Conservatives start out behind the 8-ball because of the left wing media. Having your supposed friends sniping at you doesn’t help. Sure if she’s done some actual BAD THINGS or said BAD THINGS then sure report on it and thus help correct her thinking.

    Same goes for Sarah. Can you honestly say that all of your concerns about her don’t have roots in the Media onslaught/spin during her run for Vice? Isn’t it provable that at least some of her ‘gaffes’ were caused by a lousy staff or by the spinning/editing of left wing ‘journalists’?

    Come on, be honest, would you be leery of O’Donnell or Palin as much if the Media hadn’t been beating the drum? (along with some Republican Pundits whose bread is buttered on a different load and won’t be served with Tea)

    jakee308 (e1996a)

  60. “It’s bad enough being governor of a remote, low-pop state.”

    carol – Exactly. If Howlin’ Howie Dean couldn’t cut it, why should we expect people to vote for Palin!

    Instead we can get an unqualified empty suit media creation like Obama! Suh-Weet!!!!!

    Is this a great country or what.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  61. As pointed out before, Gibson and Couric’s interviews were progressively edited, the latter
    were due to Couric’s inept researching skills re her actual record, this is the one who listened to Biden’s ‘FDR in 1929’ comments and didn’t bat an eye. The ‘seeing Russia, from territory in Alaska,’
    which Fey ellipsed further, came from a longer
    segment, I’m surprised in nearly two years, you haven’t figured it out

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  62. That’s ‘different loaf’. (of course load could fit also.

    jakee308 (e1996a)

  63. Comment by Moneyrunner — 9/24/2010

    Nailed, to the main mast.

    gary gulrud (790d43)

  64. I think what true conservatives need to do is intelligently and blindly follow LITMUS TESTS for their candidates, you know, for the principles, or something.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  65. I am indeed a Palin supporter, but the info in my post was taken from a very liberal message board. For anyone who has actually made an effort to investigate her accomplishments and her actual management style, they would see most everything in that post has been corroborated by other sources. Unfortunately too many people, including bloggers, would rather accept all the other garbage painting her as an incompetent as fact.

    I’ve worked with highly-educated people. I’ve worked with brilliant people. I’ve worked with real leaders. Sometimes, those real leaders didn’t fall into the first two categories. Rarely did anyone in the first two categories fall into the third category. Obama may be in the first category, but not the last two. Palin doesn’t fall into the first category, but according to people who have actually worked with her, falls into the last two.

    A successful leader can surround themselves with good people with real-world experience. As we have seen in the last 20 months, a highly-educated person may surround themselves with people with no practical experience.

    RefudiateObama2012 (6b0aa4)

  66. Damn, interesting insights on Palin..but she needed to do two terms as a governor to put forth that image to the nation at large to counteract the old image from 2008. It’s bad enough being governor of a remote, low-pop state.

    If she weren’t as attractive as she is, she would have any more chance than the governor of Montana.

    Comment by carol

    Unfortunately, once she became a national figure and the object of a concerted campaign to discredit her, that became impossible. There are explanations out there about the quirk in Alaska law that let thousands of Democrats file ethics violation accusations against her and requiring her to defend them all with personal money. I was sorry to see what happened but dig into the story a bit about the reasons. How would you, on a middle class income, like to have $500,000 in legal bills suddenly created?

    Mike K (568408)

  67. Mark, those accusations about personal use of campaign funds is illegal and is being investigated. Given that every DE state official is a Democrat, I assume any real violation will be detected

    I’m not a fan of hers but she did well on Hannity. I only wish the McCain campaign had let Palin go on some friendly shows first. The reason she had her first interview with Couric is because the McCain staffer who trashed Palin in several books after the loss is a personal friend of Couric. I’m very sorry to see that person depicted as a GOP pundit on some Fox News shows. She is the very definition of Benedict Arnold.

    Mike K (568408)

  68. Dmac — Yes, she had a poor start with the national media, which even she acknowledges.

    Reminds me of the beginning of Jerry Rice’s professional career. In the first 12 games of his rookie season, Rice averaged 2 receptions for 41 ypg … and scored a total of 2 touchdowns. He could have given up … but he didn’t.

    aunursa (1b5bad)

  69. carol’s point makes more sense if someone with the experience she wants, I guess someone like Rick Perry, Mitch Daniels or Mike Huckabee, demonstrates the principles Palin wants in the White House while stepping up.

    If nobody like that runs, what are we supposed to do?

    Palin has Romney level experience (about 2 years of governor work before moving on to something else) with, IMO, much better results. I hope someone else steps up, but consider that a lot of the favs do not have much executive experience yet. Christie, Ryan, Demint…

    Daniels should run an appeal to Palin that he is stepping up. There is a third requirement now, and it’s a Palin endorsement.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  70. Please, Allah, I beseech thee, please please please let someone step up so we are not subjected to this.

    JD (9ea23e)

  71. nominating Sarah Palin would be really scraping the bottom of the candidate barrel… I guess if Huckabee were somehow unavailable and it emerged that Lady Gaga employed an illegal cleaning lady for two months in 1996 and every other Team R person came down with tertiary syphilis then maybe a Sarah Palin candidacy might make a certain amount of sense

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  72. “Operation Chaos” was a response to what the Dems had already done. McCain winning NH and everybody else splitting others gave McCain the momentum before Guiliani was even in, as well as keeping Thompson out.

    If Palin can manage a rematch with Couric or Gibson on her terms her detractors would need to think twice, but not sure how she can pull that off, I’m sure neither of them would want anything to do with it.

    Maybe they should be invited as a guest on “30 Rock” (is that what it’s called?) and Palin can do a Fey imitation and tear them apart in the process. Yeah, that’s it. Uh oh, daydreaming again.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  73. I agree with you about Huck, that’s why PPP kept him hign on the polls, despite that incident with
    the four dead cops in Washington, most everybody
    else, I don’t have a problem with,

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  74. Please, Allah, I beseech thee, please please please let someone step up so we are not subjected to this.

    Comment by JD — 9/24/2010 @ 11:10 am

    I agree. She certainly can be an enormous asset to GOP gains but fair or not the left of center dems and some indpendents have already made up their mind about her specifically.
    My personal opinion is that she hasn’t really rolled a whole lot of substance that impresses me.
    My snarky outlook is why replace one amateur with another in 2012.

    VOR2 (c9795e)

  75. TPX,TPE,PTA,Grizzlies,Pittbulls and lipstick, yes we can,9/12ers,founders,Wiccans,Rinos,Dinos,Winos,change,hope,smoke

    is it over yet?

    EPWJ (17f94c)

  76. I think JD and happyfeet ought to run as a team. Perhaps rotate who gets to be President and VP.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  77. I’m … humbled.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  78. I want to be whichever one gets the private chef

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  79. You know i am kind of sick of everyone pretending our only option is palin. there are other republicans who are well qualified for the job, who have administrative experience that sets them up to do the job.

    That being said, there is one thing that is really appealling about palin. i think if you sent her to washington, she would sit down and say, okay, guys its time to really balance the budget and reduce the debt. And she would go as far as she had to, to get that done. i am not sure there is anyone else with that combination of common sense and grit out there.

    if we have a litmus test, that should be it.

    as for mitt romney, i am sorry, but he has to convince me he will destroy obamacare–assuming the courts won’t do it first–and will not institute anything like romneycare in its place. romneycare makes it really hard to vote for the guy. really, that is my only sticking point with him.

    of course he would be better than obama, but right now i think a dead skunk would do a better job. A dead skunk won’t apologize and bow to foreign leaders, or spend our money.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  80. happyfeet has just made on of it’s fact filled analysis for which it’s so well known.

    Sorry to get snarky, but this is the sort of thing we expect to read on Kos. Instead, when there are serious issues to be addressed and the country is in serious trouble due to the sterling leadership exhibited by everyone except Palin, we get comments about Lady Gaga and syphilis.

    Moneyrunner (53e425)

  81. Whoever it will be might as well send their family now to some isolated place where they don’t have to watch, listen, or read any media of anykind. Either that or they need to have a very thick dossier on the big media who’s who and anybody else tempted to weigh in on a smear campaign. I think the treatment of any serious Republican candidate will make “Jaws” look like a “G” movie- blood everywhere.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  82. AW


    EPWJ (17f94c)

  83. The rest of the field has the charisma of dead fish.

    Daniels and Pawlenty have plenty of charisma – check out the current reality show featuring Daniels staying with Indiana residents all over the state. He comes across as quite genuine and likable – but as for charisma in general, I think the populace is fairly immune to that kind of quality right now, since they went all – in for Elmer Gantry in the WH, and it didn’t work out so great.

    The MFM is never in the camp of the candidate with the “R” after his party affiliation

    Exactly – which is why I want a candidate who’s well – versed in taking on the nastiest of media folk. I’ve been watching Palin on Fox for awhile now, and she keeps repeating the same nostrums, over and over, it’s beyond mind – numbing. Since that’s the most media – friendly outlet she’s ever going to find, what the heck will happen to her when she goes up against the real arseholes out there? I don’t think she has the goods to combat them, and I don’t think she ever will.

    Dmac (d61c0d)

  84. Fair point, as I’ve poinred out they did this to Mitt, Jeb, North, in one year, to a whole series of
    other figures including Allen and Delay, that were
    considered effective

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  85. EPWJ- aren’t you the person who talked of using pepper spray or the like to get rid of racoons and such? The commercial animal repellent is essentially that. Between moth balls and hot pepper dust I think the buggers are gone. If it only worked as well with the left.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  86. her Fox News commentary falls flatter than Rachel Corrie I think

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  87. epwj

    which part is the blasphemy?


    > her Fox News commentary falls flatter than Rachel Corrie I think

    that is wrong, so wrong. but hilarious.

    Personally i plan to commemorate the anniversary of Corrie’s death at the local International House of Pancakes.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  88. MD – no it was Chris Hooten

    I surrender to the racoons and apologize profusely to their leaders for the human races failings….

    yes I can!

    EPWJ (17f94c)

  89. I support Sarah Palin, both the idea and the person. These arguments are basically that Palin faces significant media opposition but I submit she survived the onslaught better than any other GOP nominee could or did … plus every Republican will face the same thing in 2012. Wasn’t it the conventional wisdom of the last election that John McCain would get a fairer shake from the media than the other GOP nominees? How did that work out?

    All the Republican candidates face an uphill climb when it comes to media coverage. I’d rather take my chances with someone who actually says what I believe.

    DRJ (d43dcd)

  90. Since that’s the most media – friendly outlet she’s ever going to find, what the heck will happen to her when she goes up against the real arseholes out there? I don’t think she has the goods to combat them, and I don’t think she ever will.

    The assumption is that the Republican who’s going to win the next election will be the best debater. Now I defer to no one in my admiration of Christie in his ability to debate anyone; just as I’m a great admirer of Rush Limbaugh who’s also a great debater or pontificator (depending on your viewpoint). But Christie’s not running (he says) and Palin looks like she will.

    I think you guys underestimate her. What was the conventional wisdom when she resigned her position as governor? She’s through, finished, toast. They criticized her decision, they criticized her speech, they criticized her clothes, and that was just the old Right.

    In retrospect it was a very smart move, perhaps even brilliant. She was able to make lots of money; she was able to travel the country, to write another book, to raise money for candidates, to endorse candidates … who mostly won.

    Which one of you would have thought: “I’m a sitting governor and to further my political career I’m going to resign and step out of public office for a few years.”

    As a result she has become the most talked about opponent to Obama outside of talk radio and the leading candidate for the Republican nomination.

    And you’re telling me that this dumb bunny can’t handle herself once she’s running her own campaign?

    She’s the reason I voted for her and the old geezer she ran with.

    Moneyrunner (53e425)

  91. money

    its too soon for christie, although he does kick butt.

    i really want them to have 2 terms of governor, ideally. but no one is following that ideal these days.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  92. Well she ain’t in Iowa for the corn.

    This is probably Palin’s best window of opportunity-because I sure as hell would be looking to Whitman for the block. Heck Portman in 2016.

    Palin could win Iowa, skip New Hampshire, win South Carolina-(which seems tailor made for her) and take that momentum through to Florida ( which had deep pockets of SoCons).

    I doubt she can win the general.

    Just saw the internals for a poll in Delaware and Conservative females are not liking her handpicked candidate-C.O.D. Speaking of which-C.O.D. kind of blows the theory that Plain believes in the theory of holes….

    madawaskan (565543)

  93. edit: which *has* deep pockets

    blows the theory that *Palin* believes in the theory of holes.

    madawaskan (565543)

  94. If her stable of stalking horses does well in November, why can’t she win? No candidate in the history of politics has had such an aggresive vetting. In fact, any attempt to re-open any ‘old news’ will backfire on the media (and their partners in….ummm idealogy, the Dems). She’s the only Republican that has that going for her. She’s also floating on the ‘citizen politician’ trend. If the 2012 slate is the same as 2008 Republican slate I hope she runs and wins the nomination (no offense to the dated white men as I’m one myself). But I’d like to see a young gun team take Palin’s place – Jindal, Christie, Rubio etc. Only because the country doesn’t need a new round of bickering.

    Now all these folks don’t have as much experience as the 2008 slate. And Obama’s lack of experience has been a huge part of his problem. However, experience can be hired in. Obama just chose not to do so. Or rather, he hired in folks with the wrong kind of experience. That’s why McCain, with no private industry experience (and he’s made plenty of dumb statements about business to boot), would have done much better than Obama on the economy: McCain knows folks that know the economy. Same dynamic for Palin et al – hire in the experience. What’s Dick Cheney doing? If only to hear Olberman’s ‘Special’ comment when Palin-Cheney gets the nomination.

    East Bay Jay (2fd7f7)

  95. How about a Palin/Christie ticket?

    I personally think that despite Christie’s avowals, he could be “drafted” to be VP.

    Moneyrunner (53e425)

  96. ___________________________________________

    I’m not a fan of hers but she did well on Hannity. I only wish the McCain campaign had let Palin go on some friendly shows first.

    I place everything in the context of the absurd amount of liberal sentiment out there in the wider community. For example, I just saw a poll today (the Field Poll, which is generally reliable) that indicates Barbara Boxer has recently increased her lead over the Republican opponent, Carly Fiorina. IOW, a ton of bricks could fall on the heads of various Americans, and they’d still buy into the notion that liberalism is wonderful, humane, generous and sophisticated—-and that goes double for many of the folks residing in America’s answer to Greece/Spain/Mexico/Venezuela, otherwise known as the state of California.

    So unless we all live in a bubble and are totally cut off from such people (eg, family members, friends, neighbors, co-workers, acquaintances, etc), we have no excuses for losing sight of the varying degrees of idiotic leftist biases out there and not adjusting rightist — and, as far as I’m concerned, common-sense — tactics and strategies accordingly.

    Mark (3e3a7c)

  97. Palin keeps banging on with platitudes about “common-sense conservatism” — phase two should be for her to admit the phrase is redundant: “common sense” IS conservatism (the real kind, that is).

    I’d feel a lot less scared about Palin for Prez if she did 3 things:

    1. Begin releasing on Youtube (viz., do an end-run around the MFM! Ignore the MFM!) every two weeks or so, an unedited real-time 90 minute video of Sarah chairing a meeting on a policy question, with members of her team and invited experts. Even if she’s not an expert on a given question, let’s watch her absorb new info and respond to it. Let’s see those qualities in evidence, again and again, that were discussed up thread. I hope they’re real.

    2. Stop mouthing platitudes and discuss policy questionsat length, and in detail, and live in person so we know it isn’t just a speechwriter doing the lifting.

    3. Select her key Cabinet members in advance, and campaign with the whole team in place already, so the people feel reassured she’s got excellent backup. It may be unfair that so many people are nervous about her and need to be reassured, but that’s the landscape.

    If she did those 3 things and looked good doing them, I’d be on her side. Without them, I ain’t too sure.

    d. in c. (9adaba)

  98. RefudiateObama:

    It’s wonderful that there is a “Democrat” who not only loves Palin, but also defends her attack on ObamaCare, and quotes Alinsky to boot!

    It sounds so much like a Republican … but we know it’s a Democrat because an anonymous person tells us so.

    Patterico (97f743)

  99. Conventional wisdom on the Republican side: “She is a hick who’s damaged goods and can’t win the election.”

    Conventional wisdom on the Democrat side: “I hope she gets nominated and we’ll wipe the floor with her.”

    One thing to know about both the stock market and politics: once it’s conventional wisdom, it’s worthless. As an investor, you make money by buying stuff that people hate, just before “they” find out how the company’s NOT going bankrupt. And the conventional wisdom after Obama’s win in 2008 was that you should not speak ill of the “One” because he was just too popular and the voters will punish you. Just a few people made lots of money out of betting against Obama: Rush Limbaugh with “I hope he fails,” and Sarah Palin with her “death panel” comments.

    Conventional wisdom plus a dollar gets you a lousy cup of coffee at Mickey Dee’s.

    Moneyrunner (53e425)

  100. Charisma is over-rated. Big time. It got us Barcky. Anti-charisma is what I want. A seriousness.

    Thank you, MD, but I would not make a good candidate. But that was quite the compliment. Like happyfeet, I am humbled.

    JD (6ca166)

  101. Pat,

    Based on the ReufudiateObama post where did you get the impression that the poster is a Democrat?

    Moneyrunner (53e425)

  102. “its too soon for christie, although he does kick butt.”

    A.W. – Forget Christie. He’s a squish. He supported Castle. He is dead to us. PRINCIPLES. What are you thinking?

    daleyrocks (940075)

  103. Patterico used the word idealism in trying out an equivalency between Obama and Palin. This is a cartoon take.

    I was active on the progressive end of the Dem primary process, and I can assure you that no one in that end of the swimming hole was ever idealistic about Obama. The only issue during the spring of 2008 was who was more electable; and even that was something of a phony debate given the Obama campaign was way out in front on organizing for winning where there were caucuses (It should come as no surprise that the main focus of at least one of the constitutional courses he taught each year at U Chicago was voting rights.), and in reality (as Nate Silver started point out early, which got him the attention that has resulted in him getting to the New York Times) the Hilary campaign was dead from mid-February and running on denial. The progressive hope was always that he might, if enough pressure was put on him, avoid his well-established centrist ways. Any idealism associated with him came from reading possible shifts from centrism in what he said in some speeches, in the idealism that independent voters projected into those (progressives never bought into that), and in the idealism that the DNC had in beating McCain.

    I want to be fair to Palin supporters in suggesting something like the same thing goes on with them. They know she can’t win or govern with the philosophy, if that’s the right word, expressed in what she says and writes, if that’s the right word; they don’t want her to because they dont want that … philosophy … watered down; they know if she were to run she, and they, would get hugely embarrassed; and if she were to win (in some fantasy universe) she — the person represented in the things she says and writes — would be easily manipulated out of relevance in Washington. They like her best as their own Aimee Sample McPherson, pure and unsullied.

    In the very first comment on this thread, SDB wrote:

    the difference is that Palin has/will face a hostile press

    That implies Obama has not, which is pure denial on the part of SDB (assuming he actually believes it) and all who think that. Virtually all of talk radio, one entire news network and pundits at just about every newspaper and blog in the country gave Obama a honeymoon of about a week and then went to work on him with the same game plan as on Carter and on Clinton. The entire portion of the so-called liberal tv media that is in fact liberal is made up of two hour-long shows on one cable news network, and even those two spend as much time going after Obama as supporting him. The single most unapologetically liberal voice is in the print media is Paul Krugman, who spends way more time criticizing Obama than praising him.

    The reason for that is simple; the liberal progressive view is this: from those to whom much has been given in the way of analytical and communication gifts and political opportunity, much is expected. In contrast, I see Mike K. at 31 expressing, once again, the hope that if Palin were to somehow surround herself with a brain trust — meaning, she has none of her own to rely on — things would go much better. That was the mantra two years back, and it hasn’t changed; she won’t do it for one of 3 very good reasons (possibly all three): because it will hurt her brand; because she’s lazy; and because she’s s … l … o … w.

    I will run if no one else does is a pretty easy message to read.

    shooter (32dc25)

  104. One problem I see is … how on earth would Sarah Palin ever make the case that she’s a better candidate than anyone else that was running – say someone what actually managed to finish a term in office? Sure you can say she’ll cross that bridge when she come to it but I think the fact that there will very likely be other candidates what “step up” throws a big monkey wrench into Palin’s capturing of the Team R nomination.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  105. *comes* to it I mean

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  106. and another thing what happens if the Democrats nominate someone to run against her? That would be a huge obstacle… meaning that even if Sarah Palin got the Team R nomination it’s a lot unlikely she would ever actually be president.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  107. The progressive hope was always that he might, if enough pressure was put on him, avoid his well-established centrist ways

    One has to be an ultra-liberal, if not an ultra-ultra-liberal, to characterize Obama — then or now — as “centrist” or “moderate.”

    I spoke with an acquaintance a few months ago (he’s currently unemployed, but worked earlier this year as a free-lancer at a local city government office, and before that at other public-sector agencies) about people’s ideology. He refused to characterize Obama as “liberal.” I then asked him whether he believed Hugo Chavez was “liberal,” much less an ultra-liberal. He hemmed and hawed and wasn’t willing to admit something as basic as that.

    The way the human mind works (or certainly the minds of some people) is quite a sight to behold.

    Mark (3e3a7c)

  108. “Aluminum forms insoluble oxides on exposure to air.”

    Well, you certainly would know gary, given the prominent role it plays in your fashion choices.

    Sean P (4fde41)

  109. Mark at 107: I wasn’t trying to convince you. You’re perfectly free to indulge in your own fantasies. I was just dealing with the idealism meme Patterico put out; and the story you added about Chavez (I assume it’s true.) actually makes my point: even if you think liberal progressives are delusionary, the fact is they were not and are not in the least idealistic about Obama: they think he’s closer to a Blue Dog than a progressive.

    shooter (32dc25)

  110. That was the mantra two years back, and it hasn’t changed; she won’t do it for one of 3 very good reasons (possibly all three): because it will hurt her brand; because she’s lazy; and because she’s s … l … o … w.

    You really need some newer plays. “Don’t vote for the Republican because he/she’s stuuupid!” Wasn’t that the nicest thing that the Left said about Reagan? The other things they said was that he was a warmonger, a fascist, wanted gays to die of aids … come on help me guys, ah yeah, some gal came out and accused him of having his way with her when he was in Hollywood.

    This slow gal is eating Obama’s lunch as the Left swears they were never in love with their affirmative action president.

    Moneyrunner (53e425)

  111. Mark,
    You don’t understand the true progressive. Bill Ayers discussing how to liquidate 25 million people who are not with the program after they take over is the echt progressive.

    Moneyrunner (53e425)

  112. avoid his well-established centrist ways. Any idealism associated with him came from reading possible shifts from centrism in what he said in some speeches, in the idealism that independent voters projected into those (progressives never bought into that),

    This should have made your head explode, multiple times.

    If someone thinks Teh One is closer to a Blue Dog than a progressive, then they do not have much room to criticize others as being in a fantasy.

    moneyrunner – Leftists like shooter trot out that RethugliKKKans are stupid thing reflexively.

    JD (b537f4)

  113. JD:

    Leftists like shooter trot out that RethugliKKKans are stupid thing reflexively.

    But, but … isn’t that stupid?

    Moneyrunner (53e425)

  114. “I was active on the progressive end of the Dem primary process, and I can assure you that no one in that end of the swimming hole was ever idealistic about Obama. The only issue during the spring of 2008 was who was more electable”

    shooter – I think it is great that you were able to read the mind of each voter in the Democratic primaries in 2008 and determine that the only issue on their minds was electability. How did you do that?

    daleyrocks (940075)

  115. _____________________________________

    You’re perfectly free to indulge in your own fantasies.

    What? That you’re an ultra-liberal?

    I’d accept being called an ultra-conservative if I ever characterized, as one example, George W Bush or Ronald Reagan as moderate or centrist. Such presidents may have had left-leaning tendencies — responses to bloated budgets and illegal immigration in W’s case, accepting secret dealings with Iran in Reagan’s case — but they in general were rightists.

    And you of all people — since it’s a window into your own mind — should not be surprised by the type of bias I detected in the person I described in my previous post. And, yep, the guy I mentioned really does exist. And, yep, we really did have a conversation where he rationalized away the leftism of not just Obama but Chavez too.

    Bill Ayers discussing how to liquidate 25 million people who are not with the program

    But his compassion, his generosity, his egalitarianism, his tolerance, his humanity, his love and his sophistication — and did I mention his generosity? — allow the ends to justify the means.

    Mark (3e3a7c)

  116. Daley

    Actually, i believe shooter on this one. All they cared about was winning. They didn’t ever take the issue of whether Obama could GOVERN seriously.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  117. You can believe him all you want, but the idea that Barcky did not represent an ideal of hopeychangey leftism is not borne out by the way it actually transpired. We are the ones we have been waiting for. The oceans will quit rising. Speeches in football stadiums. It was not about electability, any Dem not named Bush was going to win.

    JD (b537f4)

  118. Actually, Progressives are furious that Obama has not fulfilled the promise that really sold them: the one about a civil defense force just as well armed as the military. Because you can’t round up 25 million people with just the SEIU goons.

    Moneyrunner (53e425)

  119. “Actually, i believe shooter on this one. All they cared about was winning.”

    A.W. – JD beat me to the response, but more ridiculous to me was the idea that shooter could claim to know the thoughts of each voter. That was my real point.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  120. Folks, technically we haven’t been spammed, but what RefudiateObama2012 posted can be found at a number of blogs as either main posts or comment, including HotAir and FreeRepublic, in the last week or so. Google the first sentence or two (the part that starts with “I’m not even sure that I can be classified…”), and you’ll see what I mean.

    Observations: First, I find it curious that RefudiateObama found it necessary to post the whole thing instead of linking to one of the original posts, as if he/she was afraid we would not go to the link and read it ourselves.
    Second, assuming any of what the alleged Democrat who is responsible for the original statement (remember that the post is supposedly quoting a Democrat at length–and that it’s not RefudiateObama who is the Democrat), and making allowances for the fact that the “Lamestream Media” would not publish anything favorable to Palin at this point–why has nothing like this come out through the conservative blogosphere?

    kishnevi (fb9343)

  121. assuming any of what the alleged Democrat who is responsible for the original statement
    Should be
    assuming any of what the alleged Democrat who is responsible for the original statement is actually true.

    The LATimes is not the only one in need of a copyeditor 🙂

    kishnevi (fb9343)

  122. I was active on the progressive end of the Dem primary process

    You’re perfectly free to indulge in your own fantasies.

    Nancy Peelosis (d61c0d)

  123. I kinda doubt Palin would face a particularly hostile press until after she got the nomination – she’s the best chance the dirty socialists have of keeping Obama in office I think.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  124. happy….I’ll enjoy you having to vote for Baracky in the fall of ’12….

    Have a good one….

    JD (176333)

  125. and…yes, that was a sockpuppet who forgot to change his name….

    JD (176333)

  126. I would never vote for Baracky I might could just go get tasty pancakes then too I guess but I think I would probably vote for Palin

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  127. Then maybe kinda you sorta oughta be slightly like you could find some possible meaningful way that could just, well, you know….

    ….or, maybe you’re just mean….

    reff (176333)

  128. I think Palin would surprise people.
    She talks in a convoluted way sometimes and because of that her gaffes seem magnified. The press is happy to magnify away.

    But as President, she’d be fine. I think she’d implement a common sense government; she’d shoot straight with the people, she’d be proud of America, she’d put the hurt on our enemies; and be gracious to our friends. She’d spend less and tax us less. She’d try to free up the oil and nuclear industries from over regulation. on social issues, I bet she governs like a center right mom… she set aside her ideals and rallied (fiercely) around her pregnant daughter.. people with real needs in this country would get helped… people with trumped up needs would get a parental kick in the butt towards the employment line

    SteveG (cc5dc9)

  129. I think Sarah Palin would govern as a commonsense conservative with the common sense and also the maverickyness plus sometimes going rogue and also the hockey mom and the mama grizzly, this would be key.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  130. The funny thing is I think she’s actually starting to think of herself as presidential.

    People are really messing with that woman’s head something awful. It’s not very kind.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  131. Don’t start crawfishing now, feets….you know you really like her….

    reff (176333)

  132. I would like her a lot more better if she would drop this I’m a be peezzydent nonsense. And bring me baked goods.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  133. wallah…it doesn’t matter what you guys think of her….she repulses the demographics you need to ward off the demographic timer…the same demographics you need to win a presidential election.
    youth, minorities and teh college educated.
    feets, like i said, its now or never for her.
    her anti-base is increasing while her base is dying off without replacement.
    and she will be post menopausal by 2016.

    wheeler's cat (edda84)

  134. well she needs to wait til never that way she does the least damage

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  135. #130: Yes, but would the mama grizzley wear lipstick or just the pit bulls?

    Sean P (4fde41)

  136. We’ll have to focus group that and get back to you Sean.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  137. Wallah …that is about the 93268615386246th time you have posted that same comment, nishidiot.

    JD (6bef06)

  138. They have thrown every conceivable slur, insinuation, at her in the last two years, adultery
    (our pikachu’s favorite) corruption, that changeling
    thing that haunts Sullivan, total ignorance (according to the slugs that talked to Halperin,)
    bipolar mood swings,Schmidt’s contribution, et al

    Bill Dyer, Beldar is the one that really synthesized her record, from Adam Brinkley, and Kaylene Johnson’s bio, starting around June of 2008, onward, he provided a good deal of the gut check against the stream of lies, that began on August 29th, and has proceeded apace for the better part of two years

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  139. Kishnevi, I didn’t link the original comment at the message board because just that comment wouldn’t link. To answer your question about why this info about her hasn’t been published before, many of the points made have been out there for anyone who bothers to find it. I was aware of Palin long before McCain picked her, and critiques on her were very positive.

    Obama and his minions created the Palin of today. She was prepared to go back to her job, govern for the people just as she had before the 2008 campaign and then run for re-election. But, no, Obama’s people had a better idea. They wanted to destroy her both politically and financially. She had a choice. She could allow her enemies to drive her into irrelevance and bankruptcy or she could fight back. They underestimated her and she’s made them pay, big time.

    RefudiateObama2012 (6b0aa4)

  140. Someone must be a bit frighted by truth, because he or she made up comment and pinned my screen name to it without my knowledge or permission. I had thought such tactics were reserved for the Sockpuppet Friday thread, but apparently not.

    You are free to resume over-heated reactions.

    shooter (32dc25)

  141. RefudiateObama2012 at 140: This is a pretty good illustration of how folk mythology works: make it up, repeat it or some variation on it through multiple voices, and then as it gets further away from the time when it happened and is repeated enough times by enough voices, it takes on the appearance of authenticity. Next thing you know, it gets repeated as received oral history, works itself into a religious text, and poof: biblical reality.

    Actual governance is difficult, controversial and messy, and is bound to make at least some unhappy. In her case, every day of actual governance was eating into her image of purity with competence, and thus her brand and future marketability.

    Before she quit, she was a commodity in a markets-driven political system, but one in which every use of the product risks reducing its credibility.
    Now she runs a feature carny act in a trade show. Ever since July 2009 she has been able to work the edges of the commodity product line tent just hinting at the resurrection of a former great product line that never existed, all without having to come up with the slightest proof that it splices and entices while it slices and dices.

    shooter (32dc25)

  142. You really are extraordinarily ignorant, frankly I’ll call you Otto from now on, like Kevin Kline’s
    character in ” A Fish called Wanda”

    paul atreides (6709ab)

  143. Is there any subject that shooter does not simply pull things out of his arse?

    JD (a30317)

  144. Tell you what: jd, patriedes, whoever: a simple bet. She runs for POTUS in 2012, she does not run for POTUS in 2012.

    Now say how much. I match it. We find a reliable third party to hold us to it. We go.

    shooter (32dc25)

  145. “This is a pretty good illustration of how folk mythology works: make it up”

    shooter – I agree that the left’s caricatures of Palin are a perfect example as well, as were your debunked talking points about Bush’s two “off-budget” wars.


    daleyrocks (940075)

  146. Your last comment was proof positive that you either did not read, or could not comprehend my very straightforward position on Palin. Having said that, your caricature had as much to do with reality as aliens do.

    JD (b0d0ea)

  147. shooter shot wad long ago.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  148. She loses a lot of her cachet if she says she won’t run. Same if she says she will, but then doesn’t really try. This lets her walk a nice line and stay in public eye and the money rolling in.

    imdw (c982ed)

  149. Here’s one of the posts I was referring to, earlier

    paul atreides (6709ab)

  150. Here’s the first, of the series,

    paul atreides (6709ab)

  151. I don’t know if Palin will run.

    A big part of me hopes that she does, though. She makes people on the left, the media and the establishment right twitch like tasered meth addicts.

    It would be like a circus-train-wreck, demolition-derby and ferret-mating-season extravaganza rolled into one big ball of Freud-enhanced, Grand-Guignol excess leading to at least one deserved aneurysm for Keith Olbermann and a stay at a special-care center for Chris Matthews.

    Drinks would be, definitely, on me.

    Ag80 (5c7ef4)

  152. OT, but I enjoyed watching the testimony of Chris Coates today in front of the Civil Rights Commission. It is a little tough for the left to claim the winner of awards from the ACLU and NAACP is a closeted hood-wearing Klansman. Serious damage was done to the claims of the DOJ in spite of the efforts of that smarmy toad Commissioner Yaki.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  153. shooter,

    I dd not leave that comment, but I believe it was intended for the sock puppet thread. I deleted it.

    Patterico (e5dc68)

  154. I hope she does run. It will drive the libturds even more bat-shit crazy than they already are. I can just hear their heads assploding already. The suicide rates of moonbats will go to astronomically high rates and cause a massive reduction in their population. Hark, is that the sound of cocking hammers that I hear? The increase of poison and razor blade sales alone will stimulate the economy better than anything Ocrackhead has done.

    Run, Sarah, RUN!!!!!

    peedoffamerican (50fe58)

  155. i have never said Palin was an adultress. I say the same thing because no one EVER responds on substance. She can’t be elected with the support of 44% of the electorate. She needs 51%.
    It simply can’t be done.
    I do think she is running, because she has to run now or never.
    Her anti-base is increasing, her base is decreasing.
    Her visual appeal will wane post menopause.
    The other thing never discussed on the right, is that Palin will mobilize Obamas base in a way never seen before– can you say base enthusiasm?
    You are right about that, Obamas base pretty uniformly regards Palin with horrified incredulous loathing.
    They will come screaming down on the polls like a swarm of MQ-9 reapers on an afghan wedding party.
    The other thing that is going to change the midterms is that the next part of Wikileaks document release is going to hit in November. If nothing else it will remind people of how much they hated Bush, and peel off some independents that you cant afford to lose.
    Running against Bush is still good strategy for Team Obama.
    He was the worst president evah.

    wheeler's cat (edda84)

  156. Pardon, the docs will hit BEFORE November.
    I predict sometime next month.….possibly very close to election day.
    Assange and Mannings goal was to stop the war in afghanistan…what better why than keeping the republicans out of power?

    A London-based journalism nonprofit is working with the WikiLeaks Web site and TV and print media in several countries on programs and stories based on what is described as massive cache of classified U.S. military field reports related to the Iraq War. Iain Overton, editor of The Bureau of Investigative Journalism, tells Declassified that his organization has teamed up with media organizations—including major television networks and one or more American media outlets—in an unspecified number of countries to produce a set of documentaries and stories based on the cache of Iraq War documents in the possession of WikiLeaks. As happened with a similar WikiLeaks collection of tens of thousands of U.S. military field reports on the Afghan war, the unidentified media organizations involved with the London group in the Iraq documents project will all be releasing their stories on the same day, which Overton says would be several weeks from now. He declined to identify any of the media organizations participating in the project.

    Several weeks from September 9 puts the release at the end of October– free anti-republican warmonger television spots.

    wheeler's cat (edda84)

  157. the revolution will be televised.

    wheeler's cat (edda84)

  158. And the warpimps won’t be able to spin this as Assange outing afghan collaborators– it is pre-dacted ane the stories will BE ON TELEVISION, not raw data that people wouldn’t bother to read.

    We are going to have Americas nose rubbed in what really happened in Iraq. And it is not going to be pretty.
    Bush’s hagiography is going to need a radical rewrite.

    wheeler's cat (edda84)

  159. Pretty early to be polled up and drinking, isn’t it?


    Eric Blair (9ed73e)

  160. That was funny. I meant “pilled up” and the iPad autocorrected.

    Eric Blair (9ed73e)

  161. I’ll vote for her because my daughter says it’s time we had a girl President.

    But I don’t think a woman can win a national election for quite a while yet.

    Having said that, I think she has more balls than the NBA, NFL and MLB combined, and it’s not necessary to win every fight. Just fight.

    nk (db4a41)

  162. nishi – You might have missed it, but Bush is not running this year.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  163. Nishidiot is just copying and pasting her prior 653915357895 rants. Exactly the same, no mattr what the topic. Her meds are way off, check the dosage. The is no response on the substance, nishidiot, for at least 2 reasons – 1) there is no substance, and 2) you are an output generator that doesn’t discuss but shouts out the voices from your fevered mind. Even if you were to accidentally make a substantive point, it would be lost in the rantings of an imbecile.

    JD (688155)

  164. yeah daleyrocks, but Bush still makes a good target to run against.

    wheeler's cat (edda84)

  165. JD, the substance is that one needs 51% of the electorate to win.
    How does palin get that?
    her favorable unfavorables are 44/47 right now.

    wheeler's cat (edda84)

  166. Well, JD, old skool Sufis were called “dervishes” because in those days, they would whirl around in circles to the glory of Allah.

    If you remove the religious aspect, I guess we could call it spinning.

    Not that this odd person is actually Sufi. She is just a poseur, and tries to sound smart to her friends, to feel better about herself. But each time she posts, she reveals her own ignorance and hidebound inflexibility.

    An angry person, frightened and resentful.

    If she were Sufi, she could get help. But she isn’t. She is a donkey carrying books, just like the Sufi saying.

    Eric Blair (9ed73e)

  167. nishi – Sure nishi, if you can’t run on accomplishments, heh, run against a gut who left office almost two years ago. Let me know how that works out.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  168. I think WC is a little too much into “Ghost in the Shell,” daley.

    Eric Blair (9ed73e)

  169. Eric – I want to see nishi blame Bush for Obama’s unpopular legislative initiatives. That would be a treat.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  170. No Sufi, even the Nasquabandi (sic) would be as much an apologist for AQ as Quellist Kate

    paul atreides (6709ab)

  171. “will we confront the candidate as she exists in real life — with whatever faults and flaws she has — and decide whether that candidate is worth staking our hopes on”

    Oh, Rico, Rico, where is your personal confrontation with reality? Where are you?

    gary gulrud (790d43)

  172. And while you’re explaining graft don’t forget the finances.

    Next on kookiness-the Honorable Peter Stark.

    gary gulrud (790d43)

  173. Daley, too much manga does things to the mind.

    Eric Blair (9ed73e)

  174. I’m waiting for the “better” candidate to be identified by Patterico.

    It was Beldar who first pointed me to Palin as VP candidate before McCain picked her, and for the moment she’s my choice for 2012.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  175. That’s why I linked those two threads, earlier, SPQR

    paul atreides (6709ab)

  176. Sarah Palin as GOP’s candidate wld be such a gift to the Dems.

    The Emperor (6e616b)

  177. Oh dear Lord, look what is back.

    Eric Blair (9ed73e)

  178. Missed me Eric. lol. Missed you too. Am back a changed man. Hope you are too.

    The Emperor (6e616b)

  179. Oh tell us, Mr. Prosecutor, why is it more important to clear the streets of a recidivist mugger than a Madoff?

    gary gulrud (790d43)

  180. You need to reconsider your amnesty policy, Patterico. I can ignore creeps like Gary Gulgud most of the time but not all the time. And I think that’s the case for other good-faith commenters, too. Creeps like Gary Gulgud look to derail the thread, we respond angrily, and all goes to heck.

    Put the jerk into moderation.

    nk (db4a41)

  181. It’s Patterico’s blog and rules, nk, but I fear his policies will lead to the reverse of what he hopes for….

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  182. The fact remains that Republicans can’t govern worth a crap. It astonishes me that there are as many stupid people that there are that think that the idiots that drove our country into the ground for 8 years is now going to be able to fix it, without any specifics about HOW they are going to fix it. They have to be completely ignoring the entire Bush years. They reason they are running against Bush again, is that the stupid Republicans HAVEN’T CHANGED ANY POLICIES. They want to continue the same ones that destroyed our country under Bush. Hence, the Democrats are running against Bush again. It’s simple, really. Same economic policies, same lack of regulations, same everything. Same stupid Republicans. Same stupid ideas. Same stupid results… Horror for the majority of America.

    Chris Hooten (47013d)

  183. That was in 2007, Eric. Since then hasn’t she quit her public service job of being a governor (before she was done), and written a book and gone on a speaking tour? Isn’t it more about money, now? How can everyone so easily gloss over her irresponsible and selfish choice to stop being governor? What makes you think she won’t do that as President, as soon as it gets “hard” and people start asking her difficult questions, like “what are you going to do now?” or “why did you do that?” She is an established quitter at this point with a huge base of people that CAN’T STAND HER, and dont think she has any qualifications for being a President, and is not very bright. That is a lot of “turnin’ ’round” for the old snowbilly, and I don’t think she has the intelligence or personal wherewithal to change that many people’s opinions. More likely she will convince more people that they don’t want her. God I hope she runs for President, though. Maybe Christine O’Donnell, or Michelle Bauchmann could be Vice President. (crosses fingers pleading)

    Chris Hooten (47013d)

  184. Ah, the shouting Mr. Hooten. I love the cognitive dissonance:

    1. Republicans are responsible for bad economic results.

    2. Democrats can’t fix the prior Republican problems; their own actions have no effect.

    Short form: R baaaaad. D gooooood.

    Nice to see that some things don’t change.

    And by the way, Mr. Hooten? Why so angry in your posts? It couldn’t be voter’s remorse, could it? And the knowledge of what is coming in November? You also seem fixated on calling people stupid who don’t agree with you.

    You might want to think that one over. Because you are so smart and everything.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  185. Hooten, you are really hilariously clueless if you think anyone buys that load of Democrats horsemanure.

    The Democrats took a nation that had two wheels on a soft shoulder and drove the whole car into the ditch and rolled it. Democrats worsened the nation’s finances by increasing the nation’s deficits by an order of magnitude as far as the eye can see.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  186. and then Sarah Palin probably poop on it

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  187. please- somebody step up

    and not Huckabee

    Jones (72b0ed)

  188. u r Commonsense Conservatives (& other freedom-loving NY’rs) hero today. Thanks 4 selfless act 2 allow your great state 2 thrive

    That’s Palin’s twitter. Check for yourself… I didn’t edit it. She actually represents herself that way. This takes Bush or Clinton’s aw shucks posing to a level I think is ridiculous and embarrassing.

    I’ve been a Palin fan boy for years. As hard as this is to believe, I wanted Mccain to pick Palin for VP well before he announced that selection. Her reform credentials are stout. And yet, every time I read about her these days, I cringe.

    There are better ways to express this twit/tweet/whatever.

    “Thank you Lazio for the selfless choice to make this a race a conservative can win.”

    Why would Palin choose “UR 2 Cool 4 school, Freedom lover, luv SP!” type garble? It’s like she’s targeting Meghan Mccain specifically.

    It’s sure as hell unpresidential, and that will make a huge dent in her electability. I sure hope someone steps up, because I still believe she is unbeatable in a primary.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  189. Dustin

    I looked at it – didt thik it was all that bad

    Hope she doesnt run though –

    EricPWJohnson (5295cd)

  190. now my “n”s arent going through

    EricPWJohnson (5295cd)

  191. dustin to be fair, twitter is a very restrictive format. but yeah, “texting code” is pretty annoying in my book.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  192. Eric

    maybe you are experiencing something like the woman in “the man with two brains.” at once point steve martin is checking to see if his lover, who is just a brain, has brain damage. so he asks her questions like:

    What do you call a striped horse?

    A ebra.

    And where do you go to see one?

    At the oo.

    Oh no, you lost your Z cells!

    (those are paraphrases, not quotes)

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  193. “dustin to be fair, twitter is a very restrictive format.”

    That’s true, but one rises to the occasion. That’s why I provided an example.

    This was a style preference, not some kind of attempt to conserve characters.

    For some reason, this really bugs the crap out of me.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  194. dustin

    well, your approach would also conserve adjectives, and palin hates to do that. 🙂

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  195. she’ll probably have a facebook post, up soon, ehich is the long form, you’ll find fault with that too, I’m sure.

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  196. “she’ll probably have a facebook post, up soon, ehich is the long form, you’ll find fault with that too, I’m sure.

    Comment by ian cormac”

    Ian, I’m been a Palin fan for a while. If you don’t think that twitter comes across terribly, I guess we have a difference of opinion, and if you’re suggesting I’m somehow deranged and just looking to find fault that isn’t there, I suspect you’re just impossible to reason with.

    It really comes across like an idiot wrote that. Will the facebook post come across as written by the same person? Will it be written by the same person?

    Palin is the one acting as gatekeeper. ‘Step up’ she tells the entire right have the spectrum. I’m only asking her to do the same.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  197. “That’s true, but one rises to the occasion. That’s why I provided an example.”

    Roger Ebert uses twitter quite well.

    imdw (b79151)

  198. Dustin is not being unfair to palin. he might arguably be being unfair to twitter style, but that’s his perogative. i admit i kind of hate the style, too.

    really, i don’t understand the allure of twitter.

    i mean if i want to pop something off, i just press new post on my blog and bam, i have all the space i want. i don’t get twitter on any level.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  199. Not sure why but half the “conservatives” loitering about are poseurs, protesting their bona fides much too much.

    gary gulrud (790d43)

  200. Well I wouldn’t go quite that fire, that friendly fire seems to be an attendant problem

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  201. Am back a changed man. Hope you are too.
    Comment by The Emperor — 9/25/2010 @ 11:09 am

    — Ah, so Love had reassignment surgery. Explains a lot.

    Icy Texan (fc131b)

  202. Hoot-owl upchucked a mouse-burger garnished with: They want to continue the same ones that destroyed our country under Bush.

    — Really? “Our country” was destroyed? Are you speaking of the USA? Since Texas (which IS a whole other country, btw) has not been destroyed, I assume that’s what you meant.

    Oh, and you’re wrong anyway.

    Icy Texan (fc131b)

  203. Comment by imdw — 9/27/2010 @ 1:33 pm
    Roger Ebert uses twitter quite well is a great twit.

    — There. FTFY!

    Icy Texan (fc131b)

  204. sarah palin does appear to have credentials to be president. she may run, but I doubt if she would win.

    FX-Abe (057fe1)

  205. Anyone who thinks that any of the recent governing by Republicans has been good is just in denial. Our country was a hell of a lot better before “W,” and you can’t blame it all on 911. The tax breaks alone were an epic fail. Look at the damn economy, you head-in-the-sand’rs.

    Chris Hooten (f2a133)

  206. Blaming Obama for the economy is like digging a hole 100yards wide and 100 feet deep, and then dumping a bunch of people in it, and then blaming them for not being able to climb up the steep walls and get out. “But I just dug the hole and stuck you in it! That is irrelevant now, and it is your fault you can’t get out of the hole.”

    Chris Hooten (f2a133)

  207. That was vintage crissyhooten. Thanks. I needed a good laugh.

    JD (a99479)

  208. How many of the potential GOP candidates are on the Fox news payroll? Palin and Huckabee, who else?

    imdw (8a8ced)

  209. Blaming Obama for the economy is like digging a hole 100yards wide and 100 feet deep, and then dumping a bunch of people in it, and then blaming them for not being able to climb up the steep walls and get out. “But I just dug the hole and stuck you in it! That is irrelevant now, and it is your fault you can’t get out of the hole.”

    I think the better description of what Obama has done would be an analogy to one of my youthful experiences.
    We were driving my parents Datsun B210 and got it stuck in mud in a field. Being the problem solver I fancied myself as, I collected several branches and put them in the front of the rear wheels to help get a little traction.
    Then I made the colossally stupid decision to push the car from the rear as it tried to gain traction. Hilarity ensued as I was pelted by the branches…

    VOR2 (c9795e)

  210. VOR2- That is a pretty good analogy, but really does not give a full description of the economy sucking job killing Dem policies that they have done. In crissyhooten’s analogy, after having dug said hole, Barcky thought the appropriate way to get out was to dig the hole twice as deep, and blame someone else. Its analogy also overlooks how the economy responded to the Dem takeover of Congress, and their spending, which dwarfed the evil spending of Bush.

    JD (a99479)

  211. Our economy was killed by Republicans, not Democrats. What are you talking about, JD? What “policies” have driven jobs away? There are 729,000 more jobs now, than when joblessness was at its peak. They are all private sector jobs, also, not government jobs like they have been lying on Fox “News.” Those are crappy numbers, but are a positive, not a negative, which means that there is no job “sucking” sound, since jobs are being created.

    Chris Hooten (bc3301)

  212. Our economy was killed by Republicans, not Democrats.


    You don’t hold Barney Frank accountable? Obama’s lawsuits for banks to make bad loans didn’t do any harm? His Senate votes to increase spending to destabilizing levels didn’t do anything because Bush was president at the time (and strongarmed over Iraq’s troops getting support, of course)?


    The power of the purse rests in the House of Representatives. The democrats inherited low deficits (average GOP defict was $104 billion from 1994 to 2006), but Obama claims those deficits were killing the economy. He and other democrats then proceeded to multiply the worst deficit of Bush’s era (a democrat House deficit) by 4.

    No doubt, many conservatives find many faults with Bush, with GOP spending levels, etc. But to pretend democrats have no responsibility for our economic problems is simply insane. If you don’t think Democrats can take responsibility when they are in power, why in the world would anyone have trusted them with power in the first place?

    That’s the real reason Obama has imploded. He said he could fix all this, and now he’s saying he can’t. Pathetic.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  213. Chris Hooten, the claim that our economy was “killed” by Republicans is a flat out lie. The policies that created the credit crunch had bipartisan origins, but the mismanagement of Fannie Mae that can be considered a trigger were Democrats like Franklin Raines.

    Notice how many financial firms that were bailed out were run by Democrats like Citigroup (Rubin).

    Since then, the economy’s recovery has been “killed” by Democrats spending pork like drunken sailors, failing to deal with the Federal budget and refusing to deal with the tax rate fiasco. We are 90 days away from a rise in tax rates that a majority of Congress thinks should not happen – and yet no vote has occurred because of Democrat leadership. That’s the utter incompetence of a purely Democratic Federal government with no ability to lie about it being the GOP “fault”.

    Grow up, Hooten, your fantasy life does not match reality.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  214. How many jobs are there in comparison to the day Pelosi became Speaker and Hairy took over the Senate? How many jobs are there today compared to when Teh One took office? How many private sector jobs have been created or saved since The One took office, in comparison to pubic sector jobs. I shall patiently await your answers.

    JD (b42127)

  215. ” Tax reduction thus sets off a process that can bring gains for everyone, gains won by marshalling resources that would otherwise stand idle—workers without jobs and farm and factory capacity without markets. Yet many taxpayers seemed prepared to deny the nation the fruits of tax reduction because they question the financial soundness of reducing taxes when the federal budget is already in deficit. Let me make clear why, in today’s economy, fiscal prudence and responsibility call for tax reduction even if it temporarily enlarged the federal deficit—why reducing taxes is the best way open to us to increase revenues.

    —President John F. Kennedy,
    Economic Report of the President,

    January 1963

    SPQR (26be8b)

  216. Germany has a recession too, and Obama asked Europe to increase their stimulus. Many noted that Germany in particular had no stimulus, and thought they would ride our the storm without huge debts.

    And lo… by going the opposite direction of Obama, they are out of recession, while we are mired with debts we probably can’t pay.

    And all democrats can do is pretend Republicans are to blame for everything.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  217. Yes, it was all of those Republican bankers who signed off on liar-loans, that they were forced to complete by the provisions of the CRA as enforced by the Courts in cases brought by ACORN and by Cuomo while at HUD; and the subsequent purchase of those loans by the Dem toads at FM2, which were then rebundled into MBS’s for sale hither and yon when certified as AAA by S&P et al on the direction of the usual DC suspects; all of whose actions were being protected by various characters who sit upon Capitol Hill receiving millions upon millions in campaign contributions from lobbyists contracted to said FM2 (Obama, Dodd, Franks) and the Dem insiders who sat on those Boards at FM2 who milked the system for multi-million Dollar payouts (Raines, Emannuel, Gorelick, et al).

    Yes, those Republicans – not counting the one’s at places like Lehman Bros and Goldman-Sachs who overwhelmingly (on a ratio of 3:1 if not greater) gave money to Dems over Reps.

    Yes, those Republicans!

    I see that chrissie is still the same lovable, idiotic maroon we have come to hold so dear.

    AD-RtR/OS! (4c7111)

  218. btw, back to the original, original topic. what a strange thing for palin to say.

    i mean she can’t mean that literally, right? because someone always runs for president. believe you me, if no one runs ron paul will be happy to be the nominee. (shudder).

    So is she really saying, “when monkeys fly out of my butt” that is when something that is not likely to happen, happens?

    Or does she mean that if no one she thinks is good enough steps up?

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  219. Or does she mean that if no one she thinks is good enough steps up?

    Comment by Aaron Worthing

    Yes, that. She’s saying that she will prevent the wrong type of person from being the nominee. In essence, if she runs, she is saying that every other candidate fails her test.

    And I agree, it’s a strange thing to say. It’s also a very bad time to have this argument. she could wait just a few measly weeks until after the primary, but no, coalitions must be broken now.

    I do believe that Palin would do many good things in reform, and can be trusted to not be corrupt. I would be happy with her as president. I don’t think anyone can beat her in a GOP primary. A LOT of voters are not going to consider anyone else, just because they trust Palin implicitly.

    But I sure wish we had waited until after the election. We need every seat we can get.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  220. well, really i wish palin just kept on being governor. i think she has junked what might have been a promising political career.

    but i see she was also in a dilemma with all those crazy ethics complaints.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  221. Aaron, those have subsided greatly, but it’s amazing the harassment the Palins get. Bristol was at a restaurant, as a 19 year old, and since they serve alcohol the Associated Press recently pretended she was breaking the law by going to bars.

    Petty, silly, wasteful.

    Before Sarah resigned, it was all that, but also it was ruining the state’s ability to function, administratively. Her resignation harmed her reputation while also helping her state. And I do hold this against Palin to some extent, because she overreached in some reform efforts that created this situation, where a middle class person who tries to run the government can be shut down so effectively. But Palin’s efforts put a lot of crooks in jail and massively improved Alaska.

    It just wasn’t perfectly calculated.

    Another facet to this is what Palin avoided by resigning. She didn’t have to file bankruptcy, lose her house, lack the funds to overcome ethics probes and perhaps have one go the wrong way. Another couple years of constant moaning on CNN or AP or CBS about yet another Palin scandal (they don’t exactly cover the exonerations loudly) wouldn’t have helped Palin’s popularity.

    Everyone gives Palin advice… I’d say she should take on some leadership job, perhaps in elected office, or with the RNC, that would help cement the notion that the resignation was old news. But she seems to be doing fine without my help.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

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