Dems, Tea Partiers Celebrate While Sarah Palin Calls for an Elusive “Unity”
The people cheering Christine O’Donnell’s victory in the Delaware Senate primary include Tea Partiers and Democrats. Tea Partiers, because they sent a message to the GOP establishment. Democrats, because a seat that was a likely loss is suddenly a likely win.
And make no mistake: voters probably handed a Senate seat to Democrats last night. Castle voters were polled and said they prefer the Democrat 2-1 over O’Donnell. It’s not impossible for her to win if the stars align just right. But wishing upon the stars works in the movies; in real life, not so much.
After O’Donnell’s victory, Sarah Palin issued a call for “unity” among Republicans. I fully support this and support candidate O’Donnell. She has deep flaws, but I’d rather see my flawed candidate in the Senate than the other side’s flawed candidate.
However, I can tell you that Palin’s “unity” directive is going to be hard to implement.
Part of the problem is the Republican establishment, which let slip the fact that they do not intend to give O’Donnell a cent to pursue her quixotic ambitions. The decision not to fund her mostly hopeless candidacy is defensible. The decision to announce that decision on election night is unforgivable.
If O’Donnell loses — I’m thinking “when” but saying “if” for the sake of our “unity” — Tea Partiers will not look for blame in the mirror. Establishment Republicans have given them a ready-made scapegoat, and they will flog it all the way to 2012.
Another part of the problem lies in the insufferable gloating of O’Donnell supporters over what was a fairly predictable primary victory. It does not foster “unity” to declare that O’Donnell beat “Mike Castle, Allahpundit, Charles Krauthammer, and Jim Geraghty.” It does not foster “unity” to label Paul Mirengoff a “loser” who needs to wear a dress for noting the obvious obstacles O’Donnell faces. If Twitter is any reflection of the mood among conservatives, I saw civil war last night. The Levin acolytes going around mimicking his name-calling behavior are hardly seeking “unity.”
With all their toldya so’s, you’d think these people had won the general election instead of handing it to the opposition.
If Sarah Palin truly seeks “unity,” at some point she is going to need to rein these people in.
No matter what happens, there is one silver lining, and it was expressed well here last night by DRJ in our chat:
Short version: O’Donnell has to strike fear in every moderate GOP politician’s soul. Good.
That may be all we get out of this. Is it worth it? Maybe it is.
I think Jonah’s take is pretty reasonable for those who (reluctantly) preferred Castle:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/246622/about-last-night-jonah-goldberg
Of course, in follow-up posts, Jonah is quoting the nasty responses from those who need some unity to win.
Karl (83846d) — 9/15/2010 @ 7:50 amGet over it Patterico. I live in Delaware and believe our citizens are ahead of the curve, which is understanding the direction our country is headed. I believe both conserative Democrats and Republicans will unite to beat “The Bearded Marxist” Coons. We want fiscal responsibility to be are only agenda, and nothing else should stand in the way of making our great country solvent. Democrats and Republicans can agree this should be our top priority. Small government and power back to the states. The Tea Party is comprised of all parties. This is often missed my MSM.
Jake (1e0f3a) — 9/15/2010 @ 7:52 amCastle will not endorse O’Donnell. And he calls on the national party to unfund her.
So much for Unity from the “Establishment.” I don’t think that anyone in the last few day’s discussions actually LIKED Castle, we just thought that the seat was more important than the individual. Now we have O’Donnell and we should help her win — that’s how parties work.
Assuming, like Castle, it’s not just all about you.
Kevin (298030) — 9/15/2010 @ 7:59 amGreat analysis. I hope The GOP leadership does take a breath and works for a Senate majority, but if not the message has been delivered. As we said at another pivotal point in history, “the times they are a changin’.”
This will happen to the Democrats too. The Hillarites and moderates I’m sure are plotting right now to take back their own misguided party. Obama put it all on the line and tried to run the table. He lost. His tragedy is that he is the last liberal, not the first.
Kathleen Parker (358f54) — 9/15/2010 @ 8:00 amWe had a LaRouchie winning the primary for Lieutenant Governor in Illinois. Now we have a wife-beating pawnbroker running for Governor as an independent after being replaced on the Democratic ticket (he won the primary).
I don’t think Christie O’Donnell will go anywhere. Just like Sarah Palin will not go anywhere. You can call Coons a “bearded Marxist” but the decision will be made by the Delaware Democrats in the general election who also “helped” the Republicans pick the weaker candidate.
nk (db4a41) — 9/15/2010 @ 8:00 amA lot of shark jumping going on last night. Riehl from that same post Patterico links above:
“But pessimistic, classless, know nothing losers like Mirengoff and Foster the movement can do without. No big surprise for these two hacks and their pathetic establishment sites.”
He’s not about the purity or purging RINOs he keeps saying. Heh!
Maybe it’s just because he’s butt buddies with error prone Mark Levin.
Unite you losers, hacks and pathetic morons.
How many books have you written Dan? Stay classy.
daleyrocks (940075) — 9/15/2010 @ 8:03 amAnd it’s a good thing that Levin, et al, weren’t on such a purification kick when Scott Brown was running in MA. After all, Brown isn’t exactly the rightmost crayon in the box.
Kevin (298030) — 9/15/2010 @ 8:03 amAnd you had Blago, who escaped a conviction by a hair, and Obama, and the mob connected Gianoullias
ian cormac (6709ab) — 9/15/2010 @ 8:05 amas the Senate candidate, and they have Greene in S.C,
you know who wrote a book is that Michael Steele
Sarah Palin endorsed him too.
happyfeet (19c1da) — 9/15/2010 @ 8:07 amYou know feets, stunts like Cornyn indicate that Steele is the least of our worries
ian cormac (6709ab) — 9/15/2010 @ 8:15 amIt’s a nice thing when cooler heads prevail, but too often they don’t.
Conservatives are berated by some for “not being realistic” in terms of electability. But conservatives are also outraged when the establishment pushes the likes of Specter who on a moment’s notice is willing to turn his back on every reasonable minimally conservative idea.
FWIW, I think supporting the following things puts one out of step with the majority of all:
-Obamacare
-cap and trade
-general economic policy
Support, even toleration, of the following things puts one at odds with most conservatives:
-Judicial appointments
-“Financial reform”
When the NRSC or any pundit gets behind anyone questionable on those things I think they should expect trouble. Not only non-support, but vocal and embittered opposition, because to back someone with those views is to communicate, “We don’t care what you think” to a large segment of the populace. You can build bridges over disagreement, it’s hard to build bridges over disrespect.
MD in Philly (5a98ff) — 9/15/2010 @ 8:17 am“We want fiscal responsibility to be are only agenda, and nothing else should stand in the way of making our great country solvent.”
Nah. Plenty will stand in the way. Like trillions in tax cuts.
imdw (7b0243) — 9/15/2010 @ 8:20 amAn excellent post, and well-balanced, especially considering the name-calling you took, Pat.
I do hope that O’Donnell wins in the general. And I’m not so sure it’s as impossible as you think. But the most important theme here is the one you suggest at the end of your post. Conservatives, especially those who are getting turned on to Glenn Beck, are becoming less about politics and more about principle. In some ways that may be less effective. They obviously need a dose of Machiavelli if they want their conservative principles to get any traction.
But they’ve decided that principles have to come first – politics second. We’ve drifted and drifted to the left for decades, under both Democrat and Republican leaders. And the patronizing elitist leadership of the parties (especially with this decision not to fund O’Donnell) only continues to prove that they don’t get it – and they’re not really conservative. They just want lifetime jobs.
I don’t think O’Donnell’s the best candidate. She’s got some odd issues – and I’m not sure what to make of her. But I suspect that at least a part of the establishment aversion to her candidacy is the ordinary-folks sort of vibe that she shares with Palin. Just not enough of the upper class touch.
I always thought that was a problem for WFB too. He spent too much time rubbing shoulders with the East Coast intellectuals to appreciate the plumbers and bricklayers who, without a degree, still had valid opinions about their government – and still voted.
Gesundheit (cfa313) — 9/15/2010 @ 8:23 amWE CAN TAX OUR WAY TO PROSPERITY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JD (17190a) — 9/15/2010 @ 8:24 amThe decision will be made not by the “Delaware Democrats” but by members of ALL parties. Don’t lump liberal “party members” with conservative “party members”. This will be decided by citizens for big government or citizens for small governement. I believe it is as simple as staying on message – fiscal responsibility.
Cris Coons: The Making of a Bearded Marxist” was a self described article he penned as a senior at Amherst College.
Jake (1e0f3a) — 9/15/2010 @ 8:27 amThat reminds me of how the Dems, was it Biden?, pushed the idea that we should spend our way out of bankruptcy.
JD (17190a) — 9/15/2010 @ 8:29 amOops! I see Cornyn just flipped and they’re giving O’Donnell the maximum donation.
There you go. That “elusive unity” just got a tiny bit less elusive. How’s O’D. done at fund raising?
Gesundheit (cfa313) — 9/15/2010 @ 8:32 amI posted here for the first time a few days ago. It wasn’t so much to stick up for Mike Castle as it was to criticize the wholesale shunning of candidates who weren’t as conservative as we’d like. I thought the “R,” however flawed, was important because the primary mission is to get the D’s out of their chairmanships, and if it takes 4-5 RINOs to get us there, so be it.
But my comments were predicated on the notion that party loyalty was a two-way street. I expected that after the primary, whoever lost would support whoever won, as we are (supposedly) on the same team; it is the Dems who are the political enemy here, not the Tea Party, not the RINOs.
Boy was I wrong.
If we’re expected to support the RINOs out of party loyalty, however much it disgusts us (yes, I voted for McCain – and I hated it), then the RINOs are going to have to support the nominees duly chosen by Republican voters.
Crist? Murkowski? Castle? Good riddance! To them, the party was simply a means to get elected, and not based on any set of beliefs.
So do any other elected “Republicans” want out too? Save us some time, and speak up before the next election.
NJ Mark (ebc589) — 9/15/2010 @ 8:34 amAnyone else just a little weirded out by Levin, Limbaugh, Hannity, et.al. griping about “Establishment Republicans?” After 22 years, who is more “establishment” than Limbaugh himself?
SaveFarris (1fcf1d) — 9/15/2010 @ 8:35 am“I expected that after the primary, whoever lost would support whoever won, as we are (supposedly) on the same team; it is the Dems who are the political enemy here, not the Tea Party, not the RINOs.”
I didn’t expect Castle to support the candidate calling him gay. You know, because it’s about principles, not politics.
imdw (688568) — 9/15/2010 @ 8:45 amReally, SaveFerris? How long has Rush been in the House? Or the Senate?
SPQR (26be8b) — 9/15/2010 @ 8:46 amThe Tea Party Express endorsed O’Donnell, not the Tea Party movement as a whole. TPE is merely the best-known, because the MSM has bestowed it status as the canonical Tea Party organization. TPE was organized by a professional GOP politico, so its independence is questionable.
“Our biggest problem right now has been that the Republican Party is trying to make us part of them,” said Dawn Wildman of San Diego, the California co-coordinator for Tea Party Patriots. “We’re not all Republicans, and that notion is insulting to even those of us like myself who are Republicans.”
Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (fb9e90) — 9/15/2010 @ 8:46 am“about principles, not politics”
Ahem… you might notice I was talking about the recently resurrected conservative movement – not about O’Donnell. It’s the ordinary conservatives who elected her that are not focusing on all the fine political calculations about who can get elected and just how RINO can they be and still not be Democrat. So they looked at what O’Donnell claimed to believe, and they looked at Castle and decided they agreed with what she stood for.
Evidently, it mattered more to them than some stupid things she did. And that was my point. They’re not looking at politics or electability. They’re looking at what the candidate says he/she believes.
Gesundheit (cfa313) — 9/15/2010 @ 8:50 amIts now reported the NRSC will support O’Donnell with their max contribution ($42,000). Good Start.
Questions: If Castle first endorsed O’Donnell and then campaigned non-stop for her, could she win?
If Carl Rove AND Sarah Palin campaigned hand-in-hand for her, could she win?
If Obama campaigned for Coons, could she win?
That’s what we Dems used to do, and we normally kicked ass! Just remember, politics aint beanbag.
KobeClan (39eaf5) — 9/15/2010 @ 8:52 amStatements like this, where the Castlites claim that the O’Donnellites just screwed everything up and handed the Democrats the Senate seat is not a message of unity, and it encourages a few “I toldyasos”.
Anon Y. Mous (e0052b) — 9/15/2010 @ 8:53 amHube, one of my regular visitors, and the site host of the Colossus of Rhodey, a conservative Delaware site, said on my site:
Hube is a good, conservative Republican, and if Mrs O’Donnell can’t get his vote due to her personal issues, she’s way behind the curve in the general election.
The Republican Dana (3e4784) — 9/15/2010 @ 8:55 amThe record of “moderate” Republicans has been pretty miserable. Electing a Democrat who happens to have an R after his/her name has not been a crowning success. There are enough who voted for Arnold in California to add to the list of the
BarSinister (5280fc) — 9/15/2010 @ 8:59 amdisappointed. If you look at what has become of the Tories in Britain, you see what the Republicans here in the US could be like in the near future. There are times when principles count for something.
Our esteemed host wrote:
Often times those who ride the tiger find that they have no reins to pull, and no control over the tiger. Mrs Palin throws plenty of red meat to the carnivore, but the beast remains untamed, and would eat her too, if she were the next available meal.
The Dana who doubts (3e4784) — 9/15/2010 @ 8:59 amThe RNC, the inside the beltway crowd, the Roves and ranking Republicans who see themselves back in seats of power as committee chairmen, just don’t get it. They see the Tea Party as a convenient but wacky ally that will return them to the comfy side of power.
The Tea Party is about three things all intertwined.
First is fiscal responsiblity. Second is to halt the use of our money to keep politicians perpetually in power, through earmarks and wasteul spending in home districts. Third is to halt politicians sense of entitlement as a superior political class once in Washington.
The latter is the most important. We are mad. We see our money squanderd and our children stuck with debts current politicians won’t face up to.
If this costs the Republicans the Senate, so be it. But I don’t think it will. There are other Senate seats we can still take including Nevada. Scott Brown proved that even in the blueist of blue states. The important thing for RINOs to understand is there are consequenses to ignoring the will of the people and wanton spending.
The RNC has done nothing to energize the base. From the beginning of the Obama adminstration it has been utterly defeatist. It has taken the Tea Party for granted. Where would Republicans be without the Tea Party? Did the RNC do anything to motivate the base? Could the RNC produce a massive rally with hundreds of thousands of enthusiastic supprters? Never!
Without the Tea Party Republicans would be facing minority status is both houses.
Corky Boyd (d787be) — 9/15/2010 @ 9:08 amYou never know, O’Donnell could pull it out. The mood of the country has shifted against the left-liberal Dems and it’s interesting to see how they aren’t defending themselves. The Tea Party and its fellow travelers (who are many) have the wind at their backs.
What O’Donnell needs from the R establishment is the loan of a great speechwriter and a great communications strategist. If she can stay on message, convey the substance and the real-world implications of that message (soberly and ACCURATELY), present herself as a serious-minded professional, and avoid looking like a flake or a lightweight, she can make inroads on faint-hearted Dem strongholds. Will it be enough? who can say. But if she can do those things I’d give her at least a fighting chance.
d. in c. (f7268d) — 9/15/2010 @ 9:12 amAs predicted last night, Cornyn got the clue bat overnight and announced today a NRSC contribution to O’Donnell.
SPQR (26be8b) — 9/15/2010 @ 9:43 amODonnell will win – the dems are talking taxes
in a walk
EPWJ (17f94c) — 9/15/2010 @ 9:51 amThese are the types of suggestions for Palin some will put out. Sounds suspiciously like let’s put a person in a conservative suit and hope for the best, maybe the voters won’t notice.
VOR2 (c9795e) — 9/15/2010 @ 9:54 amWhen I see Palin stand up and say that party unity is the most important thing and steer away from the us versus them rhetoric which discounts regional differences in terms of acceptable GOP nominees I’ll believe she is serious. But to do so would put whatever aspirations she harbors second to a united party, which is why I doubt she will say anything. Her first opportunity to show this would have been to graciously appeal to Murkowski for support for Miller. She would have clearly had the high ground.
For now, anyone not in lockstep with whatever a person who claims to be not of the establishment and “one of the people” will be castigated for their positions on everything.
Not a good way to rally support or campaign contributions.
“Scott Brown proved that even in the blueist of blue states. The important thing for RINOs to understand is there are consequenses to ignoring the will of the people and wanton spending. ”
So Scott Brown, not a RINO?
“What O’Donnell needs from the R establishment is the loan of a great speechwriter and a great communications strategist.”
Vote O’Donnell: So honest she won’t lie to Nazis.
imdw (604a8a) — 9/15/2010 @ 10:02 amCommenting broken?
SPQR (26be8b) — 9/15/2010 @ 10:02 amAllahlanche.
nk (db4a41) — 9/15/2010 @ 10:09 amI think the eupohoria rises from several factors that go beyond simply getting their way on this particular race. Those of us who are the “fringe conservatives” of the Republican party have for years been nauseated to see the critical votes on despicable legislation come from Republicans like Castle, Snowe, Specter and others. These left leaning Repub’s allowed the Dems to describe their victories as bi-partisan as the edged ever leftward. We are sick to death of them. I don’t care what the count comes to in the Senate. My guess is that it will be close, but if it is close that is all the more reason to vote against Castle. Do you really want his vote to be the tipping point on all legislation? If Cap and Trade is going to pass let the Dem’s own it instead of having these Castle types provide them cover. I think that the Del result tells these left leaning Repub’s that if you vote with the Dems we will get you in the primary. The Tea Party will have ultimately provided the party discipline that the leaders could not.
David Bell (3563ee) — 9/15/2010 @ 10:23 amI am just amazed at how dumb some of these O’Donnell supporters are to actually try to drive a wedge to those who didn’t support her last night. some of them keep saying it doesn’t matter if we win the senate seat at all. These folks are unserious.
O’Donnell needs every advantage she can get, and her more public supporters should do everything they can to make inroads to Castle supporters. I think that’s not asking much, and requires magnanimous leadership.
It’s also kinda amazing to see them tearing down so many others, while fainting every time someone doesn’t respond to that positively. Of COURSE Castle’s supporters are hesitating to support a campaign that beat him in an ugly primary. Both these candidates were very hard on eachother and even harder on their supporters. That’s bad politics, except for Castle, who was relying on leftys to win the general.
Ousting Castle doesn’t help us unless you actually follow that up with a real win in the general. Her supporters need to fight for it, instead of making this even nastier. There’s no reason for it to be nastier now that the primary is over.
A big problem is harnessing the Tea Party. O’Donnell isn’t really the Tea Party candidate… a lot of Tea Partiers view her as too similar to the kinds of folks we’re cleaning out. The Tea Party got rid of Castle, and it will get rid of O’Donnell too in a split second if she can’t make this case. Don’t let supposed Tea Party leadership tell you otherwise.
Mostly, I’m hoping Coons flakes. We need to stop Coons, and I think it’s politically mandatory that these people bashing Castle supporters grow a brain and start bashing Coons.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 9/15/2010 @ 10:30 amI think to some extent, I think Mirengoff and others deserve some razzing for trying to be too clever by half. O’Connell is right: before the Republican party dug into her, Rasmussen had her beating Coons, too. The fact that the seat now ‘leans Democrat’ is not O’Connell’s fault for running, or the electorate’s fault for voting the preferred candidate, but Republican party leadership engaging in scorched-earth, Democrat-like personal destruction tactics, just to make way for the preferred establisment candidate.
Cars (cd2aaf) — 9/15/2010 @ 10:33 am@ 2:
“I believe both conserative [sic] Democrats and Republicans will unite to beat “The Bearded Marxist” Coons.”
I believe that the Democrats will vote for their candidate and that the independents will decide the election.
Has O’Donnell managed to impress them much since last night? Because they sure seemed pretty disinterested in her before then.
Troll Feeder (d79689) — 9/15/2010 @ 10:34 amI’m not in much of a mood to take criticism from the Obama,Pelosi,Reid machine since they gave us Al Franken.
vet66 (b670cf) — 9/15/2010 @ 10:35 amIn all the races across the nation for the past 50 years, I can count on one finger the number of rabidly enthused, foot stomping, stem winding, foaming at the mouth moderate supporter.
Actually one finger may be way too high.
Maybe we all should get the moderates together and let them win elections with chants of
cedarhill (516b7a) — 9/15/2010 @ 10:47 am“Vote Moderate!! Yea!!!”
“Get your heart maybe beating”
“Getyour blood maybe flowin’!!”
“Vote Average!!”
“Vote for us – we’re truly Un-Inspiring!!”
“Hey, I’ll vote for Cap and Trade”
“Who needs a border?”
Great discussion. Carry on.
I’m off to do something I’ve never done before – the Blessing of a Golf Course.
Friend of mine built a new clubhouse and wanted benefit of clergy right after the mayor and the Chamber of Commerce. Tried to find a special order of service in our little book of such rites. Closest I could find was for the blessing of a cemetery. Unfortunately, the course is only 18 holes.
Gesundheit (aab7c6) — 9/15/2010 @ 10:49 am“O’Connell is right: before the Republican party dug into her, Rasmussen had her beating Coons, too”
What?
Did O’Donnell make this claim? Is this true? I think you just made that up.
O’Donnell lost in 2008 in a huge landslide 3 times the size of the ‘landslide’ her supporters claim she beat Castle by. She has been unpopular in this state for years. She cannot beat Coons by pretending she was popular before this primary heated up. we need to be realistic instead of shooting the messenger. The Conservatives who preferred Castle mostly didn’t like him very much, and we all know it. It’s too late to rehash that, so let’s just be realistic today about what it will take for O’Donnell to win this race. Her deficit in support has almost nothing to do with Republicans. She needs to appeal to independents and democrats. There is no way we win this seat, unless zhe wins substantial support from left leaners. And the best way to do that is to explain the value of conservatism to left leaners with an open mind.
If you’re rolling your eyes at that idea, YOU’RE the problem. We should be making this case all over the country, even if we can’t win any particular election.
Stop making excuses for O’Donnell by pretending you’re the Real True Conservative and all those other conservatives are sissies. It’s time to get to work.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 9/15/2010 @ 10:50 amC’mon, Cars, do you really think the Dems wouldn’t have plastered that stuff all over everywhere if it hadn’t come up in the primary? Like I said yesterday, Castle probably did her a favor by getting it out there earlier. In the mean time, I am a little saddened by several people who have lowered themselves pretty significantly in my eyes: Levin, Rove, Riehl for starters. And while Castle couldn’t have lowered himself much further, if he chooses not to endorse the voters’ choice, he can excuse himself and join some other party. I hear the Libertarians might be hiring…
RC (f02884) — 9/15/2010 @ 11:02 amSo the Republican establishment’s contribution to disunity is defensible but poorly timed?
On the other hand , the O’Donnell camps “insufferable gloating of O’Donnell supporters over what was a fairly predictable primary victory.”
Oh, really? Establishment Republicans made a tactical error, but those O’Donnell people are guilty of being “insufferable”? And her victory was “fairly predictable” when the polls were too close to call? And the no-holds-barred smear campaign waged by the Republican establishment deserves no mention for its role in the problem?
I do not endorse the gloating, but it is unworthy of you to ignore the well-financed and organized efforts of Castle and the Republican establishment to smear O’Donnell and her supporters as a bunch of dangerous loons.
Establishment Republicans now complain that the victorious underdogs are spiking the ball in the end zone. If they didn’t want their noses rubbed in it, they shouldn’t have been talking sh*t during the game.
What is unfolding before us is the growing fear of establishment Republicans as they begin to understand that the political wave sweeping the country understands that both parties are complicit in the failures of government. Those who are seen as enabling the ongoing failures are facing challenges without regard to their party.
It remains to be seen if this movement can take the tiller of government. But the tenor and irrationality the responses of the Republican establishment now sound remarkably similar to those of establishment Democrats who realized their jeopardy from the oncoming tsunami some time ago.
We are entering the next stage of the battle long before the first stage has been decided. In this second stage, establishment Democrats and Republicans will unite to protect the interests of the political class.
novaculus (30897d) — 9/15/2010 @ 11:05 am“Really, SaveFerris? How long has Rush been in the House? Or the Senate?”
– SPQR
How long has Brian Williams been in Congress? Or Paul Krugman? Or Noam Chomsky?
Leviticus (b6f9db) — 9/15/2010 @ 11:12 am“…the insufferable gloating of O’Donnell supporters…”
I am shocked, shocked I tell you, to find hyperbole and triumphalism being spoken in a political setting!
How dare these people?
AD - RtR/OS! (38b7d0) — 9/15/2010 @ 11:14 amHave they no shame?
Do they not know their place?
Nice whiney little article– is this the way charles johnson started?
j smith (db594e) — 9/15/2010 @ 11:20 amAnd, let’s be realistic: O’Donnell is fucked. No proponent of fiscal responsibility is going to survive bailing on her student loans in a general election in Delaware.
But if the Republican leadership refuses to fund an O’Donnell, it will be perceived as a (further) refusal to honor the will of their constituents, and they’ll end up with ten more Tea Party candidates just like her, limping towards an ass-whipping in November. So they have to fund her.
Leviticus (b6f9db) — 9/15/2010 @ 11:22 amWhy oh why do we in the GOP constantly flirt with the Libertarian Disease:
Letting the Perfect be the enemy of the Good.
Concerned conservatives (in contrast to the ones who sat on their hands so as not to sully them by actually voting for a less-than-perfect candidate) dutifully trooped to the polls in ’08 and voted for someone they disliked (if not despised) to deny a vote or non-vote to Obama.
But, the “Moderates”, who constantly tell us that winning is more important than ideology, refuse to adhere to their own ministrations when it comes time for them to vote for a conservative.
Just who is creating a Civil-War within the GOP?
AD - RtR/OS! (38b7d0) — 9/15/2010 @ 11:32 am\Read Novaculus’s comment from my POV.
A lot of bashing of the right, no bashing of Coons, and no good reasons to support O’Donnell. Just like Castle’s supporters, he’s stinging from the heated primary, but unlike most Castle’s supporters (who didn’t really like Castle anyway), he’s still fighting that battle for no profitable reason.
Why is it that most of the people actually giving us a good reason to support O’Donnell were those who preferred Castle yesterday? The people who should be doing the heavy lifting, rhetorically, should be O’Donnell’s most loyal fans.
And they aren’t doing her a favor by saying “thanks for your support, but here’s why you suck anyway.”
What are you talking about? irrational? People had legit complaints about both the GOP candidates and it was a two way street of bashing. A LOT of the bashing of Castle completely missed the point by going for ‘is he gay’ and ‘he impeached’. That’s over now. If you’re asking the Establishment to get over that, why can’t you get over the complaining about O’Donnell? It wasn’t irrational at all, because most of it was based on the simple fact that she’s a longshot.
And for goodness sake, we need to stop conflating two things. It wasn’t a surprise O’Donnell won the nomination, once Palin and Rush backed her. We all knew it was very likely. Castle was very weak as a primary contender. People keep saying that O’Donnell winning the nomination proves how stupid all these people who doubt her chances are… no it doesn’t. Different issue entirely, mainly because the Delaware electorate is so different from the GOP primary electorate.
We need to really get to work explaining why Coons would be a bad Senator, instead of taking that for granted. we need to get to work making a case for conservatism that appeals to the delaware independent and even the delaware democrat. If you don’t think that can be done, you are confirming the wisdom of the experts you’re bashing. If you do think that can be done, you have no excuse to be worried about old issues.
Maybe the establishment was right and this really is hopeless. Those who are already making excuses for O’Donnell and still bashing the right are acting like they do not see a way to win.
Hearing nutcases compare Patterico’s post to LGF’s craziness says it all. A lot of people think they get it, but are completely freaking clueless.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 9/15/2010 @ 11:32 amI like this comment on the race by IMAO: “This really seems like a lot of conflict over a job I seriously could teach a dog to do most of.”
Aaron Worthing (e7d72e) — 9/15/2010 @ 11:35 amYour question answers itself. The civil war has at least two sides. In this case, it really has three sides.
There are people like me who didn’t fall in love with either Castle or O’Donnell, but strongly prefers them to Coons. This is probably a large group.
There are people like Rove, who are whining like idiots about character when there are much bigger issues besides. They are making things worse.
And there are people like Dan Rheil who are gloating like idiots because they won a primary and are losing a general election, even though that’s actually that the people they are bashing predicted. They are making things worse.
Both these latter two groups want to blame the ‘civil war’ on the other group, while most of us just want them to start worrying about the real issue of convincing as many independents and democrats as possible to support sane policies.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 9/15/2010 @ 11:40 amyou guys have A Problem.
wheeler's cat (abf765) — 9/15/2010 @ 11:51 amwill blue delaware vote for a young-earth creationist?
OMG WHEELER!!!! OMG OMG OMG OMG
She’s not athiest? OMG OMG OMG OMG
I am quite sure no Christians have ever been elected before!!!!!!
anyway, one of the best things about o’Donnell, and I mean this sincerely as someone who has had plenty of critical comments, is that she is not ashamed of her religious views. Her views are not unusual, even if they are not elite. She spoke frankly about sensitive issues that send lefties into giggling fits because they don’t have the spine to discuss christian views on creation or masturbation.
That’s great for O’Donnell. We already knew she’s a fighter. A lot of Republicans are still bruised from that, but this is a positive.
Since I am cynical about this particular election, I hope more shill lefties decide to hammer O’Donnell hard for being honest and frank about these issues. That will backfire hardcore. Rush said O’Donnell only need 5.5% more support to win the race. I doubt that, but if he’s right, we should get on our knees and beg Rachel Maddow and Wheeler’s cat to go up to Delaware and keep pushing good folks with their intolerance.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 9/15/2010 @ 11:58 am“These people”
Way to out yourself as ruling class, Patterico.
Fossten (683f37) — 9/15/2010 @ 12:02 pmWheeler
sigh. sorry, but why should i care what she thinks about creationism? curriculums are generally created on the local level. senators have little influence.
seriously, i have four desires out federal candidates, with apologies to IMAO.
1) respect the free market.
2) slash our debt (note: debt, not deficit)
3) kill the terrorists.
4) punch the hippies. (especially coons.)
not necessarily in that order.
Aaron Worthing (e7d72e) — 9/15/2010 @ 12:07 pmGood point. Linking in.
Pat (c8dca6) — 9/15/2010 @ 12:08 pmFosston, don’t shoot the messenger. That’s an accurate description of a problem class of folks, who are hardly the Tea Party in its entirety.
Instead of hunting for people to condemn as the evil ruling class, join Patterico in coming up with reasons to support O’Donnell. Ok? Primary’s over. Some people are happy that they won already because they do not really care very much about reforming the federal government. If the end result of this mess is Coons in the Senate, that is a bad result. We haven’t won anything yet, so stop shooting the messengers.
It’s logically consistent for a lot of people to continue to lack optimism for O’Donnell. It’s not very consistent, IMO, for people who have freaked out about electability, insist O’Donnell can win, and as soon as she wins the mere primary, they shut down the entire effort of winning votes, by actually attacking other Republicans who are encouraging people to unify behind O’Donnell. It looks a lot like ‘these people’ didn’t really think O’Donnell could win, and are satisfied if the end result is that Coons is in the US Senate.
It’s one thing to point out that Republicans who aren’t actually supporting O’donnell, such as Rove, are hurting the cause, and entirely another to start ranking O’Donnell supporters (such as Patterico) as ‘ruling class enemies’. Stop that, and start worrying a little more about Coons.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 9/15/2010 @ 12:13 pmRush generally doesn’t weigh in on primaries, but when he does, it’s always on the side of outsiders vs. Establishment Republicans.
In response to a caller seeking guidance during the 1992 primary season, he “kind-of” endorsed Pat Buchanan (because he wanted conservatism to be represented in the conversation, and GHWB was failing there).
He tacitly endorsed Steve Forbes in either 1996 or 2000 (he mentioned, once, that Forbes was the only one saying what he wanted to hear).
And in 2008, he absolutely hammered McCain, and “endorsed” Romney only because he was the last man who could stop McCain.
Likewise, during this primary season, he has been talking up conservative outsiders.
Rush is established, to be sure, but he is not Establishment.
NJ Mark (ebc589) — 9/15/2010 @ 12:25 pmI’d like to see the hyperlink for that, which curiously wasn’t provided, not that I don’t trust
ian cormac (6709ab) — 9/15/2010 @ 12:26 pmCNN, the folks who gave Tailhook, actually I don’t.
Could someone find wheelers/nishi’s meds? Please.
I feel bad for the people of Delaware. They had a choice between a juicy crap sammich and a steaming crap sammich yesterday, and will have a choice between a crap sammich and a marxist leftist next time they vote. But, they elected Biden, so they are not without blame.
JD (6ca166) — 9/15/2010 @ 12:31 pmIf Castle voters like the Democrat 2 to 1 then they’re probably not really ‘Republican’. No?
Now we can see how guys like him got elected; they appealed to the ‘conservative’ Democrats that have been shoved out of their party. If there’s no Republican Senator from DE this year, that’s ok.
THERE WASN’T A REAL REPUBLICAN SENATOR FROM DE ANYWAY!
So the only possible loss is who has the nominal majority and controls the agenda. Frankly, I don’t trust the Senate Republicans to do the right thing and see the change in the public’s attitude.
I’m rooting for a draw or slight R majority in the Senate and a humongous majority in the House. That’ll keep Obama on a leash till ’12.
jakee308 (e1996a) — 9/15/2010 @ 12:32 pmAre conservatives united on young-earth creationism?
wheeler's cat (abf765) — 9/15/2010 @ 12:33 pmi seem to recall that you are not.
😉
boo-yah
all Coons has to do is put this on a robo-call.
wheeler's cat (abf765) — 9/15/2010 @ 12:35 pmI still think O’Donnell is one one of the worst candidates I’ve ever seen, but if she gets elected and helps block Obama and the communists (excuse, me I meant to say Democrats, not communists), then I wish her luck.
Dave Surls (a6bbd0) — 9/15/2010 @ 12:37 pmWheeler
conservatives are fairly well united in say that what a school district chooses to teach in its curriculum is not a concern for the F.G., duh. Maybe we shoud stop bickering over what to teach our kids and start to figure out how to teach them anything. typical of dems, the schools are barely teaching kids to read, but the dems want to make sure every kid gets Darwinism right. How about getting long division right, first, and then worry about natural science?
Aaron Worthing (e7d72e) — 9/15/2010 @ 12:38 pmWhat “..insufferable gloating..” could be any more insufferable than this petulant blog post?
Go read Morrissey and try to learn something.
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/09/15/gop-moans-about-losing-chance-to-take-control-of-senate-with-castle-defeat/
I’m afraid you’re losing it, Mr. P, and that’s a shame, because otherwise this is a great blog.
Born Free (9b46a7) — 9/15/2010 @ 12:43 pmBorn Free, if you aren’t aware of gloating, you probably should contact your ISP to get your internet connection repaired.
How are you helping beat Coons? Are you not worried about that because it’s a lost cause, or do you just not care as much about helping O’Donnell win as folks like Ed Morrisey and Patterico seem to care?
Are you a Republican? Do you want Republicans to come together and win? Whether O’Donnell can win or not is irrelevant at this point, and fighting democrats in Delaware will help beat them all over the country.
You find it insufferable for Patterico to ask people to get along and support O’Donnell? is that because you think O’Donnell’s support should be pure and superior? I honestly don’t know… this is a sincere question. What can’t you suffer about this idea of bringing people together for O’Donnell?
Dustin (b54cdc) — 9/15/2010 @ 12:50 pmWheeler/nishi has moved on to Memes #4&5 in her standard playbook. Point and laugh. She will generally persist for generally 3 or 4 days, before she passes out. It rarely is pleasant.
JD (b49131) — 9/15/2010 @ 1:04 pmIs Castle’s supporters support a Dem over a O’Donnell 2:1 then they are Democrats already.
Again, point is getting Republicans who represent us — not their Cocktail Party friends for Hahhhvad and Williams.
Sharp differences make for clear elections. Bye bye RINOs.
HeavenSent (e230a5) — 9/15/2010 @ 1:05 pmwill blue delaware vote for a young-earth creationist?
Actually a lot of Democrats are creationists, especially blacks, and quite a few others.
She is correct that there is scientific evidence for a young earth.
Gerald A (2b94cf) — 9/15/2010 @ 1:11 pmIf you’re giving up on the voters, saying they are just Democrats and we shouldn’t bother, then you’re saying Rush and Palin and O’Donnell were always wrong, and Castle and Krauthammer were always right.
I realize you’re not saying that, though.
We need to get Republicans and Delaware on the same page, and get that page as close to limited government as we can. The goal of the smallish GOP in Delaware is to win elections. Picking statists was one option. Convincing democrats and indies to support O’Donnell is the other option.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 9/15/2010 @ 1:11 pm#38 …Ousting Castle doesn’t help us unless you actually follow that up with a real win in the general….
That is where many disagree. The #1 enemy of a “Right of Center” Majority and getting the USofA back on track are RINOs.
Everyone knows what Democrats are so the challenge is to create sharp differences and let the electorate decide.
RINOs muddy the water so much that many people vote Democrat b/c they can see the difference.
If everyone is promising free shit then might as well vote for the guy promising MORE free shit. A Democrat.
If everyone thinks Global Warming imperils the planet then might as well support the most alarmist of candidates. A Democrat.
If everyone thinks the USofA is complicit in why the ROW hates us then might as well vote for the one who most wants to flagelate himself. A Democrat.
Good riddance to Castle. Good riddance to Sepecter. Good riddance to Crist. May then RIP with Teddy.
Time to get back to a country where people talk about responsibilities and obligations as opposed to rights and entitlements.
HeavenSent (e230a5) — 9/15/2010 @ 1:15 pm…4) punch the hippies. (especially coons.)…Better yet Put the hippies to work.
HeavenSent (e230a5) — 9/15/2010 @ 1:18 pm“She is correct that there is scientific evidence for a young earth.”
Hilarious. But she said something like there was “more” evidence.
imdw (150cd7) — 9/15/2010 @ 1:30 pmSo 2/3 of Castle’s supporters are democraps in disguise. Good riddance to these summer soldiers.
eaglewingz08 (74f660) — 9/15/2010 @ 1:31 pmDustin 55: WHEELER!!!! OMG OMG OMG OMG
She’s not athiest? OMG OMG OMG OMG
I am quite sure no Christians have ever been elected before!!!!!!
What contempt you must have for Christians, to think all of them are so grossly ignorant of basic science.
Wheeler’s cite seems to be authoritative. The Left likes to play “Gotcha” with any Republican who finesses the issue with ambiguity – but O’Donnell was out there championing creationism.
It’s a pity Castle didn’t get hold of this – it would have killed her. If she had a chance in the general without this, she doesn’t now.
I wonder how many of the Tea Partiers (who are mostly not raging social conservatives, much less fundamentalist Christians) will kick themselves over this. I wonder if Palin and DeMint are kicking themselves.
The one thing the Tea Party does not need is to allow itself to be identified with cranks. Palin too. O’Donnell is a huge gift to the Left.
(Palin could make a “Sister Souljah” moment out of this, by announcing that she didn’t know about the creationism, and will not have anything more to do with O’Donnell. I think it would massively help her with those who have bought the “far-right-flake” image of her.)
Tactically: I’d like to see the NRSC and NRC continue their funding – see that there’s $1M to spend, and Delaware Republicans proclaim their support, and even campaign for her. All on the basis of “She won the primary.” Then, when she gets crushed in November, no one can blame them; and maybe the Tea Partiers and the Angry Right will have learned a lesson.
Rich Rostrom (f7aeae) — 9/15/2010 @ 1:32 pmDustin – Patterico’s the one who used the phrase “these people” in referring to the Tea Party. It’s his own condescending verbiage. So yeah, the ruling class label is appropriate.
Fossten (4df347) — 9/15/2010 @ 1:43 pmYou know what? Before this race, when I heard Mark Levin or Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity make a statement about something, I generally believed them. I don’t anymore. They all lied about something in this race and somehow here they are calling other people names. That is the problem they will have with unity. They were nasty and they went out of their way to attack people like the guys at Powerline who are not exactly softies..and for what? To get rid of a moderate New England Republican and replace him with someone who probably can not win and who has some real issues with the truth herself.
You know what? There are 885,000 people in Delaware, less than 10% of them even voted in that primary last night. That is how small the Republican party is in that state. That tells you why Castle voted the way he did. But he still voted no on Obamacare and the stimulus and yes on the Bush tax cuts. And now what have we got an almost certain win by the Democrats. And all the purity people can do is gloat and celebrate.
Terrye (84455a) — 9/15/2010 @ 1:51 pmThere’s an undercurrent here that everyone outside of Delaware is missing. The Delaware Establishment doesn’t have a horse in this Senate race now. Castle was their man. Coons has a lot of the Establishment hissed off because of a major development planned in Chateau Country, where the Establishment lives, that he isn’t full-throttle trying to stop. In fact, the Delaware Establishment doesn’t have a voice in Washington with an R after their name anymore, since Urquhart, who won the House primary, is a downstate developer and definitely not part of the Establishment (neither was Michele Rollins, whose late husband John — a prominent GOP moneyman in his prime — made it a habit to tweak the Establishment for years and years). Carney is the only Establishment candidate (for the House). And two years ago, he lost to the non-Establishment Jack Markell in the Dems’ gubernatorial primary. So… the Delaware Establishment is reeling more than a little bit right now.
either orr (ee5c8d) — 9/15/2010 @ 1:53 pm“They were nasty and they went out of their way to attack people”
You never noticed this about these guys before?
imdw (878b52) — 9/15/2010 @ 1:53 pmJim Hoft from Gateway Pundit lays the groundwork for the answer to last night’s live chat poll question:
“The democrats ought to have hours of video for their commercials anyway thanks to Beltway Republicans.”
I’m curious, did O’Donnell run any negative Castle commercials? D’oh!
UNITY NOW!!!!
daleyrocks (940075) — 9/15/2010 @ 2:02 pmbut Republican party leadership engaging in scorched-earth, Democrat-like personal destruction tactics, just to make way for the preferred establisment candidate.
It’s called vetting your own candidate, Einstein. Which is why they failed with getting someone like o’Donell as a prospective candidate to begin with – the Tea Party better figure this process out quickly, or there will be many more severely comprimised individuals in future races. You find out the dirt, all of the dirt, before you put your own person up for the nomination. Duh.
Dmac (d61c0d) — 9/15/2010 @ 2:05 pmdeep flaws? her mostly hopeless candidacy?
handed a Senate seat to Democrats?
Pat, you need to get over yourself. Take a time out, and let Karl Rove run the blog for a day or two until you can say the name O’Donnell without quickly following it up with a sneer.
papertiger (d3c339) — 9/15/2010 @ 2:09 pmGood Golly, Miss Mollie! The Zeitgeist is right there, materialized front and center, standing up and smacking the GOP establishment in the face.
And, the blind adherents of an obsolete creed pretend the false gods of a failed past still rule the day. The torch is passed, and let the devil take the hindmost.
ropelight (827897) — 9/15/2010 @ 2:09 pmWhat a load of crap. It’s a freaking pronoun.
He’s not criticizing ‘these people’ because they are not elite enough, or pure enough. He’s criticizing them because they are trying to play holier than thou.
You’ve got the elitist argument completely backwards. He’s condescending to people who were using the argument ‘you are a jackass idiot’. And you’re upset about his use of a pronoun?
Why are you trying to tear down the O’Donnell supporters like Patterico? Do you want them to be more pure or more numerous?
Daleyrocks, that is so disappointing of Hoft. He was the largest blog pushing the obvious lie that Castle impeached Bush. It is simply amazing that someone who used the nastiest smear in the entire primary would then complain about lesser attacks.
The time for that crap is over. I don’t think these O’Donnell supporters who keep bashing other post-primary O’Donnell supporters are serious about winning this election.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 9/15/2010 @ 2:11 pmCocktailers are pretty pissed about this race huh?
HeavenSent (e230a5) — 9/15/2010 @ 2:13 pm“It’s his own condescending verbiage. So yeah, the ruling class label is appropriate.”
Fossten – So when rage-boy Mark Levin calls him an idiot with a keyboard or some such and tells him not to talk to him because he hasn’t written a book, your point is Patterico is acting ruling class, not Levin.
mkay. Thanks.
daleyrocks (940075) — 9/15/2010 @ 2:14 pm“What contempt you must have for Christians, to think all of them are so grossly ignorant of basic science.”
No, Rich, I just don’t care what they believe about creationism. It’s none of my concern. You’re the one saying that anyone with a certain belief cannot logically exist without contempt.
I don’t care about this. I care about the gosh darn deficit, the dad nab war on terror, and the golly shucks intrusive government. If someone has faith in Jesus, or in the book of Genesis, that is not a reason to hold them in contempt.
Your argument is simply disgusting. Your further views that the GOP should waste money in order to discredit the ‘angry’ is just plain stupid. We should promote conservative ideas, in this race, partly to hold the coalition together, but also because that’s what we should do in every single race in the country. It’s not about proving who is discredited, it’s about a long term effort to win enough political power from We The People, many of whom are mistaken statists.
You do not seem to have any understanding of what’s actually important politically. Someone’s relationship with God is important, but it is between them and God.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 9/15/2010 @ 2:17 pmWhat was the sourcing of that NRSC nonfunding story last night?
I’ve seen the clip of Brett Baier saying Fox has talked to Republican aides saying the NRSC won’t fund O’Donnell and the print Fox story says the same. It does not say who the aides are or identify who they work for. Were they from the NRSC or a candidate? Was there anything real out of the NRSC last night or was it all just innuendo?
daleyrocks (940075) — 9/15/2010 @ 2:20 pm“… who are gloating like idiots because they won a primary and are losing a general election…”
a general election where the first vote has yet to be cast.
Sorry, I don’t agree that the seat is lost to the GOP. The GOP has to actually try to win, instead of throwing their hands up in despair because their favored candidate actually couldn’t beat an unknown.
AD - RtR/OS! (38b7d0) — 9/15/2010 @ 2:22 pmPerhaps the voters (those unwashed, great masses, who are disdained by The Ruling Class because they insist on clinging to their guns and religion) have more insight on what is needed in DC now, in this time of turmoil and mini-crisis, than the annoited who have driven us to where we are.
Castle represented what we have had for too long: just another big-government type who, like the Bob Michel/Country Clubbers, thought that a balanced budget required not diminished spending, but increased revenue (taxes), and that the GOP could do Big Government in a smarter, more efficient manner than the wastrel Dems.
Well, a pox on both their houses.
It is time to Restore the Republic!
To return the country to the principles that it was founded upon, and allowed its’ growth to the pre-eminent social, economic, and political system on the face of the Earth!
Daleyrocks – when has Mark Levin called a Tea Partier an idiot with a keyboard?
I’ll wait for your link.
Mkay, thanks.
Fossten (4df347) — 9/15/2010 @ 2:24 pmDustin – it’s condescending – along with his tone.
Get over it.
Fossten (4df347) — 9/15/2010 @ 2:24 pmMaybe we’re just arguing over semantics, but I tend to think guy with the biggest microphone on our side complaining about “the elite” strikes me as disingenuous. He’s spent the better part of the week referring to a dinner with Republican/Conservative movers & shakers. Hey Rush: false modesty aside, why don’t you consider yourself part of that group?
After all, he is the “former titular head of the Republican Party”.
I have no doubt that if Rush, Hannity, and Levin hadn’t run the full-court press for O’Donnell for the past week, she comes up short. All well and good, but are they going to do the same thing in November? At the expense of all the other seats Republicans need to win?
SaveFarris (1fcf1d) — 9/15/2010 @ 2:24 pmTotally Unexpected:
“Plus, O’Donnell has raised half a million dollars since yesterday, which is something I doubt Mike Castle could have done.”
AD - RtR/OS! (38b7d0) — 9/15/2010 @ 2:26 pmH/T- The InstaPundit
“Cocktailers are pretty pissed about this race huh?”
HeavenSent – Triumphalist gloating from purity crowd demanding support is not terribly helpful, Obama Uber Alles.
daleyrocks (940075) — 9/15/2010 @ 2:27 pmimdw:
Actually, I did notice that they went out of their way to attack people…but that is politics..I just did not expect them to outright lie and then start attacking people like Paul Meringoff at Powerline for Chrisake. My God, the guy really is a conservative, anyone who has read his blog knows it..and then there is the petulant whining that everyone was mean to poor Christene…the woman is running for Senate, what did they expect?
Terrye (84455a) — 9/15/2010 @ 2:28 pmAD:
Try to win? Really? They ran a candidate who lost to Biden 65-35 back in 2008. Hell, Biden was not even going to serve and he still beat her 30 points. They refused to even acknowledge regional or demographic realities and instead insist on running on some sort of notion of sanctimonious purity…when instead they need to be at least paying attention to who lives and works and pays taxes and votes in the region..what do they care about, what are their politics?
So yeah, go ahead and try to win, but don’t be surprised if O’Donnell is just not that popular among a majority of Deleware voters.
Terrye (84455a) — 9/15/2010 @ 2:33 pmGreat new dorky logo from the Dems today. That’s going to help them win. That, plus running on ObamaCare.
daleyrocks (940075) — 9/15/2010 @ 2:33 pmAD, that is amazing and it’s great news. And Castle does look weak in comparison.
I look forward to eating crow should O’Donnell actually win. I’m happy to have faith in her, but some of her supporters attacking some of her supporters is not a winning strategy for anything but a few lonely egos out there.
Foosten, you come across as someone who doesn’t really understand what you’re replying to. A lot like Levin’s hilarious inability to understand the Powerline posts.
I’m telling you this isn’t an issue at all, and you’re telling me to get over it? Get over what? The issue I say is not worth attention? Yeah, thanks for the tip, pal!
You’re telling me it’s condecensing, “along with” his tone? Oh, so something other than his tone was condescending in addition to his tone? Did you even read your own comment?
And did you read mine? I already told you he’s condescending to holier than thou insulters who are bashing O’Donnell supporters instead of winning this race. You reply to me explaining who he is condescending to by telling me that he’s condescending? Thanks for the tip, pal!
Next time: read the actual post. Know what you’re talking about. Patterico isn’t the one posing as elite. He’s the one saying that the elitists are being counterproductive, and urging everyone to rally behind O’Donnell.
Maybe you can answer a question? read it first. What’s the point of you condemning O’Donnell supporters? How does that help? It’s a lot like Rove bashing her after the primary… it’s stupid if you really want to beat the democrat. Let’s focus on the actual reason we’re supporting O’Donnell. It should not be to prove our purity or elitism, but rather it should be to get as many conservatives in the Senate as possible.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 9/15/2010 @ 2:35 pmTerrye, it was nasty some of the things O’donnell’s supporters have said. A lot of people I respected really shocked me. But it’s not futile to support O’Donnell.
Conventional wisdom for Delaware may be hugely wrong. I know that’s a longshot, but it’s not impossible.
Further, a campaign for O’Donnell that is based on conservative policy rather than O’Donnell’s various flaws is a good thing for Delaware. If it takes 100 of these campaigns to convince those people to limit government, then we should do this 100 times.
I’d rather have our flawed candidate than their flawed candidate, a neo-marxist.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 9/15/2010 @ 2:40 pmYou know what?
Christine O’Donnell is cute as a bugs ear.
papertiger (d3c339) — 9/15/2010 @ 2:41 pm#97 Daley, I don’t see much hand wringing when a tried-and-true RINO wins over a more conservative one.
But to me the larger point is — yes the Republican Party needs more ideological purity so that way we don’t look like Democrats or vote like them either.
Frankly, I think this is much ado about nothing but their is some serious UBER ALLES going on by the Cocktail Crowd.
My response: chill out and enjoy November 3….. we have a bigger (and more important) fight in 2012 and fact is being in the minority in the Senate is not a bad political position to be in going into the election ……..
HeavenSent (e230a5) — 9/15/2010 @ 2:45 pmI think lots of folks are confusing personal dislike of O’Donnell with analysis.
I hate many a Republican and find them as phoney as a three dollar bill but if they vote for what I want …. so be it.
HeavenSent (e230a5) — 9/15/2010 @ 2:55 pmNot that I’m a particularly religious guy, but we do know that there’s a difference between being a Bible-believing Christian and being a “young earth creationist”, right? Just because it’s the newest, funnest term of derision for the faithful doesn’t mean you just get to apply it to anyone. Any evidence that she’s indicated buying the whole 6,000-year-old-earth thing?
RC (19ffa5) — 9/15/2010 @ 2:56 pm1) Donnell has been pretty upfront about being an evangelical Christian (or maybe fundamentalist Christian?–the exact label probably doesn’t matter in this context). For her to support creationism is hardly a shocker. And if I remember correctly, Palin during 2008 made a statement that was, if not supportive of creationism, rather tolerant of it as something many of her fellow Christians believe. Palin is a Pentecostal, remember?
2)Muslims have their own brand of creationism, albeit probably different in details from the Jewish-Christian version. Wheeler’s Cat says she is a Muslim. So why is Wheeler’s Cat so dismissive of creationism if her own religion teaches it?
kishnevi (67a8c5) — 9/15/2010 @ 2:57 pmIn the long run, isn’t it better to fight and lose with someone who embodies conservative principles than to win with an elitist progressive who will shred your constituion, rob you blind, and shackle your liberties?
Marko (dd04a9) — 9/15/2010 @ 2:59 pmMarko, Delaware republicans have agreed with you on that, but whether it’s for the best or not, it’s obviously our best option today, since the primary is over and O’Donnell is the leader.
I don’t mean this to insult O’Donnell, but some of the people who didn’t prefer her didn’t have faith that she embodies conservative principles. Still, your argument is great. There is still a candidate who we know, for sure, would shred the constitution as an elitist liberal. We need to stop Coons if we can.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 9/15/2010 @ 3:05 pm“Daley, I don’t see much hand wringing when a tried-and-true RINO wins over a more conservative one.”
Heavensent – The only handwringing I see right now is over the possible loss of the seat, but we’ll see how that turns out. Otherwise, I don’t understand your point.
“My response: chill out and enjoy November 3”
Heavensent – Jimminy’cricket you were certainly chilling out with your comments last night:
“Bye Bye RINO.”
“A principled, honest RINO makes for a wonderful Democrat. GTFO.”
“Next time I get a call they are getting a “Go F’ Yourself. Call me when you support 100% Conservatives.”
What was that I said about the triumphalist gloating from the purity crowd?
daleyrocks (940075) — 9/15/2010 @ 3:09 pmDustin:
I hope you are right in that it is not futile to support O’Donnell. The problem I have had doing that is that I just have a bad feeling about her. It is not about ideology, I think she is a con artist and that makes it so hard to support her. I can support someone I do not always agree with if I respect the person or believe the person is a decent human being. I have the same feeling about O’Donnell that I had about Obama. People are ignoring signs of character flaws and concentrating only on the message. I have a feeling she is not what she seems. I could be wrong, I might be misjudging her, but it is hard to ignore that sort of gut instinct.
Terrye (84455a) — 9/15/2010 @ 3:13 pmTerrye,
I agree with your gut feeling on O’donnell, to be perfectly honest. I wouldn’t trust her if the alternative was leaving this race to Coons. This is what I meant in my reply to Marko.
It’s not like all the people against O’Donnell were RINOs. That’s pure insanity. A lot of Tea Partiers simply split on whether they bought O’donnell’s credibility. The bashing of those who didn’t buy into O’Donnell has been over the top and completely unfair. It feels a lot like the claims that Castle Impeached Bush or was Gay… I think a lot of people making those claims about folks like you and me do not actually care if they are untrue.
Those folks have an agenda, and winning this senate seat is not on that agenda. but fighting for conservatism in Delaware is on my agenda, even if I have to cooperate with ‘lesser of two evil’ types. That should be easy for those who preferred Castle, for obvious reasons.
We just gotta have thick skin.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 9/15/2010 @ 3:18 pmMarko:
It is also true that we have a representative government and sometimes these politicians have to make a decision as to whether they will represent the people who elected them, or whether they will stick to some strict litmus test. If you are a conservative that is not a hard choice in Alaska or Oklahoma, but if you are a New England Republican elected to several state wide offices in a blue state..it can be a challenge. After all, you are there to represent the people.
Terrye (84455a) — 9/15/2010 @ 3:18 pmComment by Terrye — 9/15/2010 @ 2:33 pm
Yes! She got shellacked by an established icon in DE politics, in a Dem Year, by someone who was also running for VP.
Recap: Virtual unknown is defeated by the opposition party’s candidate for the second-most prestigeous (if not really powerful) position in the Federal Government, who is at the peak of his political career. Yeah, that dooms you to a life of burger-flipping at Mickie-D’s!
Perhaps you should read the comment by a real DE voter over at BOTW:
AD - RtR/OS! (38b7d0) — 9/15/2010 @ 3:19 pmhttp://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703743504575493892959148032.html
“when has Mark Levin called a Tea Partier an idiot with a keyboard?”
Fossten – Show me where I claimed he did.
I’ll wait for your link.
daleyrocks (940075) — 9/15/2010 @ 3:19 pmwheeler’s cat ridicules O’Donnell for creationist views but has claimed to be muslim here.
Well, I guess that’s more evidence of Patterico’s theory on wheeler’s cat…
SPQR (26be8b) — 9/15/2010 @ 3:33 pmO’Donnell supporters are behaving badly? Yeah, kind of.
Well at least Castle supporters are behaving properly; like um, Castle. Who has decided Republican Party nominee be damned he won’t endorse O’Donnell… oh, is that not right?
So the candidate we should feel bad about mocking is also a candidate who won’t pull together for the party if his feelings get hurt? Unimpressive.
Honestly I didn’t like either one of them, but Castle’s reaction here doesn’t make me sorry he lost.
Ertdfg (25ea0f) — 9/15/2010 @ 3:42 pmAs someone who never had a dog in this fight, I just want to say that I agree with pretty much everything you said, Patterico. Although, saying that O’Donnell supporters “handed the election to the opposition” is itself extremely unhelpful. I’m sure that their support for O’Donnell was sincere and honest. You are not helping your case when you make such a statement. They voted for whom they believed in. Please just respect that and drop it. Furthermore, Sarah Palin has no responsibility for the actions of others; only her own. To say that she needs to “rein these people in” is also unhelpful (and frankly, insulting). She does not control them. To imply that just because she endorsed O’Donnell (and has influence) she is thereafter responsible for all other O’Donnell supporters is silly. You did not deserve the treatment that you got from Levin. Please be careful with the words that you use as well.
munchnstuf (f2fcda) — 9/15/2010 @ 3:49 pmmunchnstuf,
Palin today was very good about going along with the sort of leadership concept Patterico envisions for her in this post. Not so much barking orders, but being a leader.
I don’t think it was insulting to expect her to do that. She is responsible for the impact of her endorsement, and can be expected to think several moves ahead. I’m happy with how she’s handled it, and I think other O’Donnell supporters should keep her attitude in mind.
I don’t understand why people are bashing Castle for his not endorsing O’Donnell. Why in the world would you want Castle’s endorsement? They are supposed to have drastically different policy views, and they have obviously can’t stand the other. The campaign against Castle was downright nasty and I wouldn’t expect either of them to endorse the other.
Castle was way out of line to suggest the GOP shouldn’t spend money, but given the ‘is he gay?’ and ‘he impeached Bush’ crap, this really isn’t a big deal of a snort. Murkowski making third party and write-in noise is a slap in the face of the voters. Castle, on the other hand, admits the voters made their choice and it isn’t him.
I think a big problem with this primary is that people are pretending those who preferred Castle to Coons were actually Castle supporters.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 9/15/2010 @ 4:05 pmI’m an atheist libertarian and live on the west coast and I’m going to give O’Donnell money. The message sent last night to the complacent Republican establshment was, “This is exactly how much we really do hate you, and yes we do mean you, quit looking behind you!” I’d vote for a flaming bag of dogcrap before I’d vote for a RINO this year. Or ever again.
Mike (b044db) — 9/15/2010 @ 4:05 pmMarko:
Is it better to lose? Well I guess that depends on whether people really mean it when they say they want to repeal Obamacare. I hear someone like DeMint say that is better to have 30 pure conservatives than to control the majority, fine and dandy…I am sure Obama feels the same way, he would rather have a pure conservative minority than a broad based Republican majority too. In that way at least DeMint and Obama are sort of on the same page.
And you know what? People got upset with Rove for jumping on some of O’Donnell’s short comings right after the election, but that is what it is going to take if she is going to win..just kissing up to her and telling her she is wonderful just like she is will not help her win a state wide election in Delaware.
Terrye (eec529) — 9/15/2010 @ 4:06 pmMr. Instapundit had a lady what knew how to make applesauce
happyfeet (a55ba0) — 9/15/2010 @ 4:06 pmI think I’m on Mike’s team
flaming bag of dogcrap 2012!
happyfeet (a55ba0) — 9/15/2010 @ 4:09 pmPolitical junkie that I am, I really am starting to be convinced that the blow to the “Establishment” GOP is worth the possibility of losing the seat.
If it gets in their heads that we’d rather lose everything than compromise with them, maybe we can start truly working together again.
William (35f5a4) — 9/15/2010 @ 4:12 pmO’Donnell will win.
rrpjr (cd5c21) — 9/15/2010 @ 4:14 pmWilliam, I think you’re right. The apparent consequences of being a RINO just got far more severe. Is this a good thing? I really don’t know.
In fact, this could backfire if the democrats in a few years take the House and the Senate and win the White House again, having won the middle, pass amnesty, and replace Clarence Thomas with some lunatic.
the stakes are that high. So those who jumped on O’Donnell’s team are recognizing the hard work ahead to prevent a disaster, and the people trying to tear those supporters down and be gloating fools look like they don’t really care very much about their country. Some of them are just crazy, some don’t get it, but a lot are just lazy. It’s easy to just say ‘I’m not voting; you’re not exactly like me!’
Indeed, we will end up with a flaming bag of dogcrap if we don’t work very hard and shrewd. Losing this election will probably result in some changes in some squishes, and yet it will also make those squishes have a harder time being elected in general elections.
it’s that Demint 30/60 thing. I think we’ll know more after the general election. If O’Donnell is destroyed too badly, that will have some harmful impact on future RINO ousters, too. Best thing for conservatives to do is fight hard to win as much support for O’Donnell as possible, whether she wins or loses.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 9/15/2010 @ 4:26 pmI am one who also adheres to the theory that a Dem is better than a RINO. It was VERY difficult claiming the immigration issue with John McCain calling us bigots. It was very difficult being against Amnesty when GW supported it.
Dennis D (e0b996) — 9/15/2010 @ 4:35 pmWhile O’Donnell’s nomination may pose short term loss for the GOP I think it sends a very loud message that will benefit the party in the long run.
Dennis D (e0b996) — 9/15/2010 @ 4:36 pmThe only message this sends the GOP establishment is that the Tea Party, while primarily helping the GOP recover from the woeful 2006-2008 death cycle, will need to be de-fanged in 2011. Make no mistake, the establishment is pissed, and we all will now pay.
Hope it was worth it ….
East Coast Chris (ded5f2) — 9/15/2010 @ 4:42 pmIf only Harry Reid would call Coons his “pet” or something.
/e hums Disney’s “When You Wish Upon a Star”
malclave (4f3ec1) — 9/15/2010 @ 4:48 pmWell, East Coast Chris, it is so special that you are afraid of the GOP Establishment and allow that fear to dictate your political activities.
Fortunately, I’m not. I’ve never admired cowardice.
SPQR (26be8b) — 9/15/2010 @ 4:49 pm“I am one who also adheres to the theory that a Dem is better than a RINO. It was VERY difficult claiming the immigration issue with John McCain calling us bigots. It was very difficult being against Amnesty when GW supported it.
Comment by Dennis D”
Hear about his latest support for DREAM?
John Mccain is making the argument for the RINO hunters better than anyone else. In isolated cases, I can buy into the idea that replacing a RINO with a dem is actually helpful. However, do that too many times and see how helpful it is.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 9/15/2010 @ 5:05 pmSo the Republican establishment will have to try to “defang” the Tea Party movement? Hee hee hee. I’d *almost* like to see ’em try. But despite recent examples, I’d still like to think they ain’t that stupid…
RC (19ffa5) — 9/15/2010 @ 5:10 pmIt’s better to have a Democrat cast liberal votes in the US Senate (if Christine loses the general election) than to have a so-called-Republican RINO cast liberal votes.
It’s that simple. Castle is no different than a Dem.
DJB (182b23) — 9/15/2010 @ 5:12 pmIf noted food critic Karl Rove spends a bunch of time on my teevee telling me that COD tastes like reconstituted horse penis stuffed with asparagus, could that make exotic dishes like Rand Paul, Ken Buck and Sharon Angle more palatable?
It might.
shooter (32dc25) — 9/15/2010 @ 5:15 pm“I am one who also adheres to the theory that a Dem is better than a RINO. ”
Ditto.
imdw (043f60) — 9/15/2010 @ 5:16 pmno more serving junk
ColonelHaiku (1546ed) — 9/15/2010 @ 5:20 pmand telling us to like it
November new day
Castle AKA
ColonelHaiku (1546ed) — 9/15/2010 @ 5:23 pmCap’n Trade need to man up
like he got a pair
“It was very difficult being against Amnesty when GW supported it.”
Dennis D – No it wasn’t. Only 21% of the public supported the last “comprehensive immigration” bill. The public revolting against an out of touch Washington elite is what got it defeated.
daleyrocks (940075) — 9/15/2010 @ 5:23 pmRC, don’t get cocky. Some of these RINOs can seriously do incredible damage. Some of them are quite powerful and frankly, they are assholes. Laughing them off is a miscalculation. Exhibit A: BCRA.
I agree, they would be short sighted to take the war to the next level. But some of this stuff has gotten extremely personal, needlessly. I’m pretty worried about what Mccain will cap his career off with. What are Demint’s 30 Senators going to do to stop Mccain?
Is this a cowardly attitude? No. This isn’t about my ego, and I feel sorry for people who think it’s about their ego.
I don’t have a solution to the RINOs that’s any better than supporting O’Donnell right now, and I think there’s no reason to fan the flames with warnings about some plot from the ‘establishment’. Though be on the watch for something in the coming years.
Harry is an idiot. This is wonderful motivation, right?
Dustin (b54cdc) — 9/15/2010 @ 5:23 pm“It’s that simple. Castle is no different than a Dem.
Comment by DJB ”
Bull. He was 53% different than a dem. Replacing him with a democrat is a serious cost, and you should own that cost. I can accept people saying this is the price they are willing to pay to scare RINOs straight in an isolated case, but it sure as hell isn’t free, and it would be a lot better to replace a RINO with a conservative.
If Coons wins, that’s worse than if Pro-choice, cap and tax, retard statist Castle had won. But the primary is over and the extremely reasonable people who preferred Castle in the primary are not insane… they are necessary to win.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 9/15/2010 @ 5:32 pmnice see such harmony.
are you all united on onanism too?
shes a joke candidate.
wheeler's cat (abf765) — 9/15/2010 @ 6:10 pmFossten,
You sound like someone looking to be offended. That is your problem and not mine.
Patterico (9d23bd) — 9/15/2010 @ 6:13 pmi didnt say anything about my views…..FYI i don’t vote in delaware.
wheeler's cat (abf765) — 9/15/2010 @ 6:16 pm🙂
i was talking about voter views. scientists and engineers are not know to favor YEC, and Delaware has the second highest ratio of scientists and engineers per thousand population in the country.
No one believes in YEC except WEC retards.
There is NO scientific evidence for YEC, sowwy.
You’re also forgetting that Biden, the candidate was the tool of the same bankers and other institutions that caused the crisis. Castle’s response was predictable as was Murkowski’s, they felt to the seat, no matter what they did, Rove was a little surprising but not really, he pulled the same stunts against any challenger to Specter or Jeffords, and look what happened after all
ian cormac (6709ab) — 9/15/2010 @ 6:17 pmHey, I supported the RINO in this case – not gladly, but pragmatically, as I saw it. However, I’d like to think the most established and country-clubbiest of established country club etablishment Republicans have both eyeballs and a healthy sense of self preservation. And everybody besides the MSM have figured out that the Tea Parties exist to bedevil both Rs and Ds. But I could be wrong…
RC (19ffa5) — 9/15/2010 @ 6:18 pmDustin, please tell me when the election was certified for Coons to fill the remaining time of Mr. Biden’s term in the Senate.
You’re talking like an ignorant, silly, Bedouin (as reproached by T.E.Lawrence: Nothing is written!).
AD - RtR/OS! (38b7d0) — 9/15/2010 @ 6:21 pm“Dustin, please tell me when the election was certified for Coons to fill the remaining time of Mr. Biden’s term in the Senate.”
I don’t get it.
He’s a county executive, not a Senator. What in the world is your point, though? I’m not perfect… I sometimes get some facts wrong, so feel free to correct me if I did.
But you’re complaining about silliness by asking me to answer a random question that has absolutely no apparent bearing… and in order to do what?
Dustin (b54cdc) — 9/15/2010 @ 6:27 pmDustin –
53%? That’s comical. Where did you pull that number? I like the number 87%. Or maybe 92.57%. Or maybe 12%…. and each has as much validity as yours.
He voted to investigate Bush for impeachment. He’s a RINO. It’s still better to have a DEM vote liberal than a RINO.
That’s what libs do – get an “R” by their name, and vote liberal. Check out Maine.
Get over it. RINOs are no longer welcome. Just do like Specter and change parties, will you please?
DJB (182b23) — 9/15/2010 @ 6:28 pmwhat is Patterico’s theory about me?
wheeler's cat (abf765) — 9/15/2010 @ 6:28 pmwheeler’s cat – give it a try. A little release and you might not be so high strung
DJB (182b23) — 9/15/2010 @ 6:34 pmIf you honestly do not recognize the origin of my figure, then you didn’t pay close attention to this race. If you think Castle wanted Bush impeached, you’re just not very smart. Sorry. It was a privileged resolution, and if not referred to committee (to die) it would proceed to a vote on the floor. You don’t understand this because you don’t take these issues seriously enough. No sweat.
You don’t really know the problem with Castle. It’s not this fiction about impeachment. He actually voted for terrible policies, such as cap and trade. He was quite open about his statist views. He didn’t hide it. You’re arguing to prove something that Castle openly admitted to, because you didn’t pay any attention.
You think I actually supported Castle? Why? He’s much better than a dem (certainly way better than Coons). He’s not as good as a conservative. This is basic stuff that everyone already knew.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 9/15/2010 @ 6:38 pmDustin, the point is is that the election has not even been held, and too many people have already conceeded defeat without even taking the field to engage the opposition.
AD - RtR/OS! (38b7d0) — 9/15/2010 @ 6:39 pmPeople like DJB are actually asking O’Donnell supporters to become democrats.
These people do not have winning this election on their agenda at all. Their agenda is simply to pretend to be more awesome than everyone else.
Pretty damn likely I’m a lot more conservative than DJB, actually. I’m much more conservative than the vast majority of Republicans holding national office, or the average Republican voter. I know that because I’ve worked a lot of elections for the GOP and have had contact with tens of thousands of voters. I realize I’m substantially to the right of the mainstream.
I also realize it’s just plain pathetic to pretend that’s some kind of personal accomplishment, or try to kick other people out of the Republican party.
Why is DJB telling O’Donnell supporters to become democrats? I’ve seen so many of these supposed O’Donnell supporters say it doesn’t matter if we lose this race, or gleefully talk about reducing her supporters as much as they can. What constructive reason does he have?
I’m smart enough not to let cranks push me out of the Republican party in spite. Half the time, these idiots boast they aren’t even republicans anyway, preferring some label proving they are somehow better.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 9/15/2010 @ 6:45 pmRove’s reaction, is exactly why there is the brush fire against the establishment, after all, in the end he was just a hired hand, without a degree for
ian cormac (6709ab) — 9/15/2010 @ 6:46 pma time as I recall, who had a little more sense of historical vision than most. Schmidt was his protege, and we;ll you know how many feel about him.
Dustin – I just can’t follow your contradictions. You are obviously much smarter than I am, and every other Republican in Delaware. Thanks for straightening us out. My guess is that now, as a former Castle flack, you must be looking at being unemployed. What a shame. But at least now you’ll have lots of time to flame us all.
Good night. Thankfully, I have to get up in the morning and go to my job. Until the health care law really kicks in…
DJB (182b23) — 9/15/2010 @ 6:51 pmI would ask you to be more constructive in how you convey that point, but I guess all you’d be accomplishing there is following my footsteps.
Read my comment again. My point isn’t that we’ve lost this election, though we have 8 senate races that are closer and a better use for resources. This race isn’t important anymore, beyond trying to hold the coalition together and making the conservative case to Delaware.
My point was more fundamental. People boasting that they didn’t cost us anything if they got rid of Castle, and we wind up with Coons, are dead wrong in 53% of his votes. They need to take what their campaign has done seriously, and resolve to win this race if they can. Or at least be honest about the price of getting rid of people who are wrong half the time, like Castle.
Sending a message to RINOs wasn’t free.
How did I sound ignorant? And what does this have to do with Biden’s remaining time in the Senate (none)? Seems random. You usually make a lot of sense to me, so I guess one of us is just out of synch tonight.
I agree, we need to engage the opposition. Part of doing that is to shut down this idea that people preferring Castle rejected the real conservative. I think a lot of Castle’s supporters are actually more conservative than most O’Donnell supporters, are Tea Partiers, and simply disagreed on how conservative O’Donnell is. We all know that she’s a much better Senate candidate than Coons, and as far as I can tell, I’m basically the only person in this thread attacking Coons.
I think you should adjust your fire a little bit. Aim to the left, please.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 9/15/2010 @ 6:56 pm#111 with words like gloating triumphalist being thrown around I still wonder what this is all about.
One side won and they are happy. The other side lost and they are pissed. Welcome to the real world.
Beyond that WTF is the problem?
Again, Cocktail Republicans are in a wedgie over this and that is OK IMHO so long as the party continues to move right. They will get over it like they did in 1980 when Reagan won.
The rest are egos being bruised much like the NRSC flip flopping b/c they realised they were wrong for dis-inviting the tramp to the cocktail party after she won the invite.
HeavenSent (e230a5) — 9/15/2010 @ 7:06 pm“Dustin – I just can’t follow your contradictions. You are obviously much smarter than I am, and every other Republican in Delaware. Thanks for straightening us out. My guess is that now, as a former Castle flack, you must be looking at being unemployed. What a shame. But at least now you’ll have lots of time to flame us all.
Good night. Thankfully, I have to get up in the morning and go to my job. Until the health care law really kicks in…
Comment by DJB ”
I’ve been consistently negative towards Castle. He didn’t impeach Bush, though. I don’t lie about people I disagree with, even Obama. Politics matter a lot, but my personal integrity matters so much more.
I certainly didn’t work for Castle, though I think your claim that I’m smarter than ‘every’ republican in Delaware overlooks that over 40% of Republicans chose Castle over O’Donnell. You want to kick them out of the party? Why? Many of them are quite conservative. It’s not like either candidate showed convincing conservative credentials, other than the balanced budgets for the state of Delaware (far less significant than Cap and Tax).
Anyway, you claimed you couldn’t handle my contradictions… but you failed to name any. I guess you think my defending Castle from a lie is the same as being a Castle flack. Nope.
Every step of the way, you seem to be arguing that you’re better. You mention intelligence, your employment, etc etc. That crap is pathetic. Stop trying to bolster your ego at the expense of other O’Donnell supporters. It doesn’t help O’Donnell and it doesn’t help your ego, either.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 9/15/2010 @ 7:07 pmI said on one of these threads late last week that I hoped we’d “let” the Republicans in Delaware, who best understand the landscape there, decide who best met their needs (philosophically) and who they think is best able to knock off the Democrat running in their general election. I am going to grant those voters the respect I believe they are entitled to, and assume they did that last night, regardless of what any of the rest of us says or thinks one way or the other.
But note to the rabid supporters on both sides: Treating important political races as if they are merely drunken sporting events– complete with over-heated testosterone, vuvuzelas and brawls– in which both the losers and winners react with taunts, heckling, anger, and blame is unbecoming and not helpful toward repairing our poor suffering country.
elissa (1e7770) — 9/15/2010 @ 7:13 pmCastle and the RNC – at least until they (RNC) regained their senses later in the day – didn’t even have the sense not to throw temper tantrums upon learning of their loss. The sooner the party apparatchik who seek and bestow favors are thrown out of power, the better off we’ll be. We shouldn’t be forced to vote for politicians who steal less than Democrats and vote for them only because they have an (R) after their names. This was a shot across the bow of the powers-that-be in BOTH parties. People have had it with moronic spending and the expansion of the welfare state.
The GOP would be wise to expand and make use of the sentiment that is growing ever stronger. To do otherwise is to miss a golden opportunity.
ColonelHaiku (1546ed) — 9/15/2010 @ 7:14 pmThe theory about wheeler/nishi is that it is certifiably and demonstrably insane. Periodically, she escapes the orderlies, gets off her meds, and goes all manic, spitting out variations of the same 7-8 memes, no matter what the topic. Wash rinse repeat. QED. That is all.
JD (8ded14) — 9/15/2010 @ 7:15 pmian cormic,
Schmidt and Rove are useless SOBs to me at this point. They put their egos over the party and their country.
Some people think Rove was actually trying to help O’Donnell by being such a jackass. I know he’s not really as clever as that, but it was cute to hear the old evil genius canard come out for one last dance.
I think you’re largely right. The gloating O’Donnell supporters aren’t really helping, but it’s predictable and there’s no reason why that should be a problem. That gloating has turned into venom thanks to a series of idiotic moves from ‘the establishment’. But I’m not worried about blame. O’Donnell’s most loyal supporters should realize they carry her campaign. Fair or not, I expect them to try to win Castle voters over, and then some.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 9/15/2010 @ 7:17 pmvuvuzelas are teh suck.
JD (8ded14) — 9/15/2010 @ 7:17 pmHarry Reid has a pet Coon? Racist
JD (8ded14) — 9/15/2010 @ 7:19 pmLiberal Democrats, and Progressives, are the oppostion and can be dealt with in the normal course of politics; but, those who claim to be conservatives, but are ready to conceed defeat without even engaging the oppostion, are not dissimilar to a Fifth-Column that eats away at the heart of a movement from the inside.
AD - RtR/OS! (38b7d0) — 9/15/2010 @ 7:19 pmI supported John McCain even though I thought he was almost the worst of all possible candidates; but I marked my ballot next to his name because a non-vote was the same as voting for Teh Won, and was something that was not just inconceivable, but repugnant.
The GOP presidential primary is going to rock.
imdw (150cd7) — 9/15/2010 @ 7:22 pmAD, your point about conceding defeat and Mccain go well together. I got the distinct impression that Mccain was not trying to win anything more than a nomination in 2008.
And people who do that are cheating the Republican party.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 9/15/2010 @ 7:24 pmHas imdw done anything that suggests that it comes in good faith? Or is it simply taking advantage of its amnesty, after having used multiple sockpuppets? I know, silly questions.
Did you know Hairy Reid has a pet Coon? Really! He said so.
JD (8ded14) — 9/15/2010 @ 7:28 pmOh, you guys have your counter productive purity movement of its own. It’s a lot stupider than anything I see on the right. Will Obama get a primary challenger? He’s getting a lot of blame for just about everything that ails the left!
The Dem presidential primary might just rock too.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 9/15/2010 @ 7:28 pmDustin – Their memory only extends beyond the inauguration when they feel like blaming Bush for everything. They conveniently forget their primary battles, the PUMAS, etc …
JD (8ded14) — 9/15/2010 @ 7:32 pmColonel notes Robert Gibbs sent a tweet about an old photo of Boehner saying that black and white “doesn’t do his tan justice”. Colonel think it would be wise for a guy who looks like Dilbert come-to-life to just shut up.
ColonelHaiku (1546ed) — 9/15/2010 @ 7:48 pmRobert Gibbs is such a jackass. All this focus on Boehner makes me wonder if their October surprise, now just another holiday on the calendar, is some kind of issue with Boehner.
They can’t really attack the Tea Party because we’re amorphous. They can’t attack Mccain because we probably agree. They can’t attack Bush because the country misses Bush. So they attack the minority leader. This Alinksy crap worked better when they were punching up.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 9/15/2010 @ 7:51 pmGibbs is emblematic of the fact that Barcky is a small petulant little man who diminishes the Presidency every day.
JD (8ded14) — 9/15/2010 @ 7:54 pmSpot on, JD.
ColonelHaiku (1546ed) — 9/15/2010 @ 7:58 pmColonel been spotty
ColonelHaiku (1546ed) — 9/15/2010 @ 7:59 pmin attendance lately was
Hooten arrested?
Winston Churchill:
LaFong (66dbdf) — 9/15/2010 @ 8:04 pm“In war, resolution; in defeat, defiance; in victory, magnanimity”
Let’s see if we can decipher Gibbs’ message. It is Boehner’s fault that we flipped the bird to the wishes of the American people, ran our unpopular ideological policies through Congress in a not-at-all transparent manner full of backroom deals and corruption of the process, spent taxpayer deficit dollars like the Spanish Armada on crank, all because Boehner has a tan. And, Bush.
JD (8ded14) — 9/15/2010 @ 8:05 pmDustin,
They are people, not horses. To say that she needs to “rein” them in is a bit insulting to me. Sarah Palin is not their master (or mistress) and she is not responsible for their actions. Not a single, tiny, itsy bit. Period. Presumably, (being voters) they are adults; and as adults, in our society, they are solely responsible for their own actions. How can anyone possibly say that Sarah Palin is responsible for what they do? That is not reasonable. You do believe in individual responsibility, right? Rove is responsible for what he says and does. Levin is responsible for his words and deeds. DeMint is solely responsible for his endorsements. Palin need only worry about Palin. I don’t speak for her. C4P doesn’t speak for her. She speaks for herself.
munchnstuf (f2fcda) — 9/15/2010 @ 8:14 pmIt was a metaphor. You sound like you are taking offense at the drop of a hat. No one said Palin is your master. I said she is responsible for thinking a few moves ahead and acting like a leader who inspires folks to work together towards reforming our government.
She is one of the leaders of our movement, and she wants to be, and she has been acting like one today.
I didn’t give you offense, you took it. Stop taking it.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 9/15/2010 @ 8:18 pmI‘m not definitely sure where he is.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 9/15/2010 @ 8:21 pm“One side won and they are happy. The other side lost and they are pissed.”
“Again, Cocktail Republicans are in a wedgie”
Robert – I think the purity crowd’s characterization of anybody who supported Castle as a “Cocktail Republican” or something similar is flat out wrong, as has been explained many, many times. For some reason you seem to have trouble grasping those basics. Alienating conservatives who had good reasons for not supporting O’Donnell with your continued name calling is not helpful, IMHO.
UNITY AND PURITY NOW!!!!!
daleyrocks (940075) — 9/15/2010 @ 8:57 pmDustin,
My whole point was that it was a very poor metaphor *and* the whole point of this thread was that people need to be careful with what they say. Thus, this applies to Patterico, as well. Saying that she should “rein” them in is a poor choice of words, IMO. It IMPLIES that she has control over them (or that she should). If anyone is “taking offense at the drop of a hat” it is not me. I stated my opinion. Why does that upset you so much? She does not “lead” the Tea Party movement. She never stated that she does. That is one of the great things about the Tea Party. It is a true grassroots movement. It has no real “leader,” as such. And although she is very definitely a *leader* she is not responsible for what other people say and do. We can go ’round and ’round on this ad nauseam but to imply ANY responsibility on her part whatsoever in “reining in” what some yahoo(s) might say who voted for someone she endorsed is simply not reasonable. I could end this with a nice metaphor for you, but I wouldn’t want to offend you. Peace, okay? 😉
munchnstuf (f2fcda) — 9/15/2010 @ 9:40 pmNo sweat. I don’t think the metaphor was insulting, though. Palin does have some amount of power, and she put it to use.
I think we just misunderstand eachother on one point. I don’t hold Palin responsible for you or any particular person out there. I hold Palin responsible for Palin. If she, a leader of our movement (IMO) did not do her best to smooth some of this out, I would hold her responsible.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 9/15/2010 @ 9:46 pmAs McCain might say, “Noted, my friend.”
Statement #1 sums up my thoughts on statement #2. (With the addition that I don’t doubt her desire for “unity.”)
Have a good night, all! 🙂
munchnstuf (f2fcda) — 9/15/2010 @ 10:30 pmComment by wheeler’s cat — 9/15/2010 @ 11:51 am
55. you guys have A Problem.
— So do you. Crack kills kittens.
will blue delaware vote for a young-earth creationist?
Icy Texan (b7d4d6) — 9/16/2010 @ 1:27 am— If you mean “will they vote for a devout Catholic,” then maybe you should remind yourself about just whose abandoned seat she is running for.
Nice little sample of trolls buried in the comments.
Viator (c5da79) — 9/16/2010 @ 1:35 amChristine raised more than $750,000 YESTERDAY. Wake up.
Patterico’s the one who used the phrase “these people” in referring to the Tea Party. It’s his own condescending verbiage. So yeah, the ruling class label is appropriate.
Comment by Fossten — 9/15/2010 @ 1:43 pm
— What a complete, absolute, total load of crap! It is ONLY because he is criticizing their statements that you are accusing him of elitism. It has NOTHING whatsoever to do with your scapegoat phrase “these people”. If he had expressed agreement, saying “these people are on the right track,” you would NEVER have accused him of ‘elitism’.
Hmmm . . . on second glance, maybe you’re just kinda ignorant — confusing “these people” with “those people,” which, especially when used at the END of a sentence (note that Patterico didn’t even do that!) can sound patronizing or dismissive.
Oh well. Back to class with you!
Icy Texan (f486e9) — 9/16/2010 @ 1:57 amTry to win? Really? They ran a candidate who lost to Biden 65-35 back in 2008. Hell, Biden was not even going to serve and he still beat her 30 points.
Comment by Terrye — 9/15/2010 @ 2:33 pm
— Remind me, is Biden running this time? Is Chris Coons the same as Biden? He has the samer political cache, name recognition and level of popularity, does he?
Oh, and since WHEN was Biden not going to serve if he had lost on the presidential ticket but had been re-elected to his Senate seat?
At this point, the man from Indiana with the two-letter name would be labeling you as a feminine-hygeine product applicator. For myself I will simply send you back down to the minors. Come on back when you’re a little more seasoned.
Icy Texan (f486e9) — 9/16/2010 @ 2:24 amI wonder if the current calls for unity and absolute support for O’Donnell due to her being picked by a majority of the GOP voters will be similar if she gets beaten badly in Nov.
VOR2 (8e6b90) — 9/16/2010 @ 4:15 amWill we see similar – “respect the choice of the voters” admonitions at that time?
More likely we will see “The dirty sob establishment pukes didn’t do enough and sabotaged her chances”
“Oh, you guys have your counter productive purity movement of its own”
So the teanuts aren’t something unique and special? I thought they were.
imdw (8a8ced) — 9/16/2010 @ 4:27 amO’Donnell has made her run
The Limerick Avenger (3e4784) — 9/16/2010 @ 6:00 amNow the Dems will have fun
Some people saw
Her character flaws
And soon her run will be done
The cold Texan wrote:
One would hope that you are not referring to the abortion-supporting current Vice President and former Senator from the First State as a “devout Catholic.”
The Catholic Dana (3e4784) — 9/16/2010 @ 6:06 amI am a bit concerned about her (Palin’s) call for Unity in the Republican party. On O’Reilly last night she was expressed what a broad coalition the Tea Party has, they have Democrats, Independents and Republicans supposedly a whole spectrum of people in the Tea Party. If that’s so – where are the Tea Party Candidates in the Democrat primaries? Will we actually see a Tea Party member run for office with a D behind their name? And who then ask for “Unity” from the Democrats? As well, what about Independents running in the general election? (aka Spoilers) if Sarah’s the spokesperson for the Tea Party will R’s then be asked to “Unify” because they are a member of the Tea Party? The Republican Party is validly concerned about where this is going, I get Rove’s angst.
Mary G (d7a8a9) — 9/16/2010 @ 6:51 am“One would hope that you are not referring to the abortion-supporting current Vice President and former Senator from the First State as a “devout Catholic.””
O’Donnel seemed more evangelical than catholic.
imdw (150cd7) — 9/16/2010 @ 6:55 am#183, U Said … “I think the purity crowd’s characterization of anybody who supported Castle as a “Cocktail Republican” or something similar is flat out wrong, as has been explained many, many times. For some reason you seem to have trouble grasping those basics. Alienating conservatives who had good reasons for not supporting O’Donnell with your continued name calling is not helpful, IMHO”
1) I do not think I said anywhere that everyone who supported Castle is a Cocktail Republican. So for you to argue folks getting alienated is a bit specious and a monsterous inference on your part.
2) I am saying Castle is a Cocktail Republican. It is good he loses. It is good the Party marches right. You want to name call “Purity” go right ahead — I call it Principles.
3) With respect to my mame calling? How many times did you derisively write “Purity Crowd?” You are not that cute. How about alienating O’Donnell supporters? Don’t seem concerned with calling them the “Purity Crowd.” So, Physician, heal thyself.
4) Repeat, IMHO this whole Castle thing is pure 100% nonsense and hand wringing by both sides. The NRSC approach to this proves it is all BS — yes, no, yes, no…… Her supporters gloated? So what. Get over it you little pussies.
5) I remember Cocktailers rejoicing at Perot’s political death. I remember them insulting him when he ran again in 1996. I remember their eviscerating Buchanon. There is (and continues to be) an Uber Alles streak which runs down the back of the Republican Party. But again, SO LONG AS THEY VOTE CONSERVATIVE I could give a fuck less if they wear white sheets on their heads on weekends or turn the other way at my garlicicky food or whatever. Big country — keep voting conservative principles and we will be all good. Don’t vote what I want — my money and vote is withheld.
6) I continue to point out that I rarely, if ever, address any of your posts so why do you mine?
To me this is a bunch of little girls running around pouting because the play ground is a little rough. As Patty says — time to support her b/c the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
HeavenSent (e230a5) — 9/16/2010 @ 7:57 amNUTS !!
Neo (7830e6) — 9/16/2010 @ 10:29 am“…They have a chance to repudiate the worst of the Tea Party crowd and show that they can govern without appealing to the basest political instincts…”
Well, they have a long history of poking themselves in the eye with a stick; and if they do, they will join the Whigs as a footnote in history.
AD - RtR/OS! (318661) — 9/16/2010 @ 10:55 amThis sounds silly to a lot of people, that the Tea Party could be the end of the GOP, but it’s not at all. All these pragmatics need to accept the pragmatism of working with the Tea Party, because there is such a lack of confidence in the GOP, combined with something approaching desperation to stop the government’s self destructive spending.
I think the balance could tip a lot faster than people realize. If a few stars aligned for some third party movement, I think it would snowball.
I don’t think that these UNITY! enemies who are still out attacking Republicans are clever enough, but if you wanted to terminate the GOP in favor of a new party, this would be a smart move on their part.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 9/16/2010 @ 11:10 amI agree with this, but it’s gotten much worse than that. And this is because it was a bitter fight and ‘the establishment’ send the gloaters into a rage with some stupid moves, but it’s also because the gloating from a lot of places is transparently country productive.
And just imagine how annoying this is to the pragmatic types. The race is now much harder, but as they come on board, the people who are O’Donnell’s biggest fans are making it even harder to unify. It’s more than purity and I actually think it would be pretty hilarious in another context. Every good sign for O’Donnell will be accompanied by an attack on some large fraction of her team not having faith early enough.
but yeah, you can’t get your feelings hurt because the other side of a heated primary is happy they won. Folks like Rove should have known better than to screw with them.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 9/16/2010 @ 11:23 amThe Dana that is confused about O’Donnell’s marital status said:
she’s way behind the curve in the general election.
— That is a given, considering the state she is running in and the history of the seat she is trying to take. However, people like your commentor Hube are handcuffing any chance she has with their “it’s not my chosen candidate” protest votes. The more conservative candidate needs to actually receive votes in order to have any shot at winning.
Icy Texan (f486e9) — 9/16/2010 @ 11:32 amimunchdonkeyweenies spat: O’Donnel(sic) seemed more evangelical than catholic(sic).
— So now she’s lying about her faith as well? Geez! Do you EVER get tired of your own non seq/ad hom spew?
Icy Texan (f486e9) — 9/16/2010 @ 12:39 pm“I do not think I said anywhere that everyone who supported Castle is a Cocktail Republican.”
HeavenSent – This is the first time you have made that clear, instead you call them pussies in your comment as you complain about my use of the word Purity in response to your repeated use of the word RINO. If you prefer Purity of Principles, I’m happy to go with that. To me the substance doesn’t change. You are also whining about receiving attention when you haven’t specifically addressed me, maybe it’s because you’re being such a dickhead with your gloating as I’ve already pointed out several times. But that could just be me.
If you’re unhappy, you could always just switch screen names again.
daleyrocks (940075) — 9/16/2010 @ 1:23 pmOne would hope that you are not referring to the abortion-supporting current Vice President and former Senator from the First State as a “devout Catholic.”
Comment by The Catholic Dana — 9/16/2010 @ 6:06 am
— Never! Although I concede that it reads that way. I should have said “confessed Catholic”(?)
[Do you think that he has ever gone into the confessional and said, “Bless me, Father, for I have sinned. I have supported the wanton killing of the unborn”?]
The Humbled Texan (f486e9) — 9/16/2010 @ 11:49 pmIn other news (is it really “news” when you knew it was gonna happen? maybe it should be “knews”) Terrye seems to have disappeared. Maybe s/he took my advice and went back to A-ball for some apprentice work.
Icy Texan (f486e9) — 9/16/2010 @ 11:53 pmNever mind. Just ran away into another thread.
Icy Texan (6c1e87) — 9/19/2010 @ 4:32 amWelcome to the most powerful Black Magic love spells on the internet! Black Magic Spells is known to be the best magic of psychic arts! Now you can ask a real Black Magic Spells caster to cast love and money spells for you! Experience the effective Black Magic Spells just like dozens of happy clients did before you. Black Magic is the key!!! blackmagicspells.co.cc or 0044 7017450013
Headlinews News (973fed) — 4/26/2011 @ 12:01 pmto hack someones facebook click in the URL
How to hack a facebook account (bef949) — 6/20/2011 @ 11:56 am