Patterico's Pontifications

6/19/2010

Radley Balko: If a Suspect Resists a Cop With Respect to a Minor Offense, the Cop Should Let the Suspect Go

Filed under: General,Morons — Patterico @ 1:54 am



How could anyone disagree with this surefire recipe for anarchy:

This started as a jaywalking citation. Was it it really so important that the woman get a jaywalking fine that she needed to be chased down and thrown against the patrol car? Even if she was trying to avoid the fine, seems like at some point you realize what’s at stake here (a single incident of someone undermining your authority to get away with a petty crime), and just let it go.

It’s amazing to me how far these radical libertarians take their anti-police prejudices. He actually wants cops to let people go because they are disobeying lawful orders.

Incredibly, a sizable number of his commenters are having none of it.

Uncut video here. If you are going to opine, you really should watch the whole thing.

173 Responses to “Radley Balko: If a Suspect Resists a Cop With Respect to a Minor Offense, the Cop Should Let the Suspect Go”

  1. crack heads….

    him and them.

    they got what they had coming and less than.

    redc1c4, Life Member (fb8750)

  2. > these radical libertarians

    Don’t tar libertarians with that brush.

    No matter what such an idiot calls himself, he’s a stupid friggin’ anarchist, not a libertarian.

    😉

    IgotBupkis, President, United Anarchist Society (79d71d)

  3. IgotBupkis, Patterico:

    As a proud “radical libertarian” and (gradualist) anarchist, I see no significant civil-liberty violation here. From previous reading, I understand numerous people were jaywalking in a dangerous manner; when the cop tried to stop them to write up tickets, they just ignored him and walked away.

    When he forcibly stopped one of the girls, she resisted; her friend (as we see in the video) intervened, shoving in between them, and the melee was on.

    This is exactly the way that riots start. Fortunately, the onlookers were too bored or drunk or puzzled to assault the cop… otherwise, we might have had an “L.A. riot” in Seattle.

    The 1992 riots began with four black youts, angry at the acquittals of the cops who subdued Rodney King, pulling a totally innocent bydriver (Reginald Denny) from his truck and nearly beating him to death. What caused the escalation citywide was, in my opinion, the lack of response by the LAPD to the initial violence at Florence and Normandie — though I’m sure Patterico’s occasional guest poster “Jack Dunphy” would disagree, my take was that the cops at the scene behaved in a disgraceful and cowardly manner, allowing the assault on Denny to go on and on and on. (Denny survived only because the chief suspect, Damian Monroe “Football” Williams, was a lousy shot with a hunk of concrete.)

    Simply put, so long as we must have brute-force law-enforcement, we must allow the enforces to employ brute force. This is a seeming tautology; but in reality it’s quite profound: Until someone comes up with an anarchist response to thuggery that doesn’t entail the use of “muscle” on the part of security personnel, whether governmental or private, we must allow the “cops” (state authority or private security) to do their jobs… then hold them accountable if they go too far.

    The chick resisted; she fought the law, and the law won. She got a punch in the jaw — is there any reader of this post who has never gotten a fist in the gob in his or her entire life? She obviously wasn’t injured; the mouth that took the punch was in good enough shape to voice some powerful cussin’ immediately thereafter!

    If I level any fault against the cop, it was that he didn’t employ his muscle effectively enough: The punch should have stunned her long enough to slap the cuffs on, but it was too wimpy.

    My standard of acceptable State violence is simple: Would I object if a private security guard did the same thing in the same circumstances? My answer is no, I would not; so I cannot fault an officer of the State for doing it. Now, had he drawn his PR-24 baton and cracked her over the head, I would be pointing the accusatory finger — as I would had a Pinkerton or ADT or Blackwater guard done the same in that circumstance. That would have been overkill.

    But he didn’t. So this radical libertarian, gradualist anarchist, politically non-Euclidean activist shrugs and says, she didn’t just ask, she begged for it!

    Patterico, please cast no more asparagus on radical libertarians; those you mean are less libertarian than libertine, and I refuse to claim them as my own.

    Dafydd

    Dafydd the Radical (632d00)

  4. Those ladies should be extremely thankful they didn’t ride the lightning.

    pdb (9cf098)

  5. Intellectualizing the stomach nausea of seeing an armed man punch and manhandle a young girl is not an easy job.

    nk (db4a41)

  6. I don’t know, I don’t really blame the guy, but there comes a time in any confrontation where you (in this case just before he punches the woman) take a step back to gain situational awareness and make some crucial decisions. That would have been the time, I think, to place one hand on his pistol, inform them all to remain in place and call for backup so they know they aren’t going to get away with just walking away.
    But, I understand how it escalated beyond that point. Adrenaline is a powerful antidote to common sense.

    TL Davis (61176d)

  7. No true Radical Libertarian would behave this way.

    Pious Agnostic (b2c3ab)

  8. One wonders exactly what cops are supposed to do in Radley Balko’s imaginary perfect world. Obviously they can’t enforce the law there, unless perhaps the perpetrators turn themselves in, bringing along signed and notarized confessions (cross-signed by their lawyers, and then their lawyers’ lawyers, to reflect their respective approvals).

    Beldar (a6fff6)

  9. The latest is that the “punchee” apologized for shoving the police officer. This effectively defuses the situation as, amazingly, this young lady took responsibility for her actions. Unlike the beer summit where the beer chosen made a political statement remaining unconsumed for the most part by all parties.

    Actions have consequences. Elections have consequences not the least of which is the fallout where newly empowered progressives feel invincible in the heady afterglow of the “dreamer-in-chiefs” soaring rhetoric.

    Reality appears to be doing to Obama what the policeman bestowed on the jaywalker. By the way, Mayor Rudy Guiliani cleaned up New York by going after the small crimes. Seems the lawbreakers feel empowered if the broken windows remain unrepaired.

    vet66 (9d1bb3)

  10. Of the 6 or 7 versions of this story that allows comments, they run about 99-1 in favor of the cop.

    MU789 (2db1e4)

  11. What do you suppose Balko would have written if the scenario had played out this way: Cops watch passively, exercising their discretion to ignore “petty” violations of the law like jaywalking, as pedestrians continue to ignore the overpass and instead to dart in between fast-moving vehicles. One of them cuts it too close, or a driver panics; someone swerves, someone’s car gets hit or goes out of control, maybe even flips, and then one or more jaywalkers, bystanders, and motorists all end up in the hospital — or perhaps the morgue.

    I’d bet my eye teeth that Balko would crucify those cops.

    I’m pretty sure that handing out jaywalking tickets isn’t a fast track to promotion on the Seattle PD, but there may be times and places and situations where protecting the public safety requires exactly that. At least once every month or six weeks, I read of pedestrians killed here in Houston while trying to run across the freeways or other high-traffic areas where pedestrians aren’t supposed to be and drivers are entitled to expect no pedestrians. It isn’t always only the pedestrian who’s hurt or killed; and even when it is, it’s a senseless, entirely avoidable tragedy that forever marks the lives of all the survivors.

    The young woman who got punched broke away from the attempted restraint of a male bystander who obviously had more sense, and she flung herself between the cop and the other young woman he was already in the process of trying to control. What’s amazing to me is the self-restraint that the cop demonstrated. Sure, a punch to the face looks shocking, but I’ve got to believe that officer knows — and would have been justified in using — much more serious (i.e., potentially dangerous) techniques to subdue someone engaged in vigorous physical resistance. My guess is that the punch was intended to shock, and in that respect it wasn’t entirely successful, since the young woman continued vigorous physical resistance even afterwards.

    Beldar (a6fff6)

  12. This Libertarian sides with the cop. It’s obvious from the video that the cop used the bare minimum of force with someone blatantly resisting arrest.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (fb9e90)

  13. Yesterday I was on Lake Shore Drive in Chicago when 6 young adults tried to cross it to get to Lake Michigan during rush hour. The LSD is a six lane north-south highway with a three foot cement divider. They were leaned up against the divider waiting for traffic to clear. Remarkably stupid is one thought that comes to mind. I guess in Balko’s perfect world, the woman in the video from Seattle would lead these lost treasures across the remaining three lanes of traffic to safety.

    BT (74cbec)

  14. He was really outnumbered. I give some credit to the other kids there who did not join the fray. He was right and was very lucky he didn’t get disarmed and shot.

    Mike K (82f374)

  15. You start using physical violence against the police, and they WILL do whatever it takes to stop you…up to and including shooting your sorry ass.

    You could ask David Koresh and his pals about how that works, but they’re no longer available for comment.

    So, do me a favor…don’t start geting physical with the cops. You’re going to lose for sure, and it causes all kinds of problems.

    Dave Surls (99db0b)

  16. Couldn’t care less. It’s that way where I live right now. Local LE used to send 85-100 folks to jail every night. Most were drunk and disorderly or domestic violence cases. It’s down to 50 or so. And like you said it’s anarchy. Don’t go to the mall after dark.

    glenn (0af9f1)

  17. It’s the “broken windows” syndrome in face-to-face real time. Stop the problem now, or face a far worse one later when ‘the street’ learns that it can get away with more, and more, and more. That’s partly courtesy of the big contingent in the MSM who will take the violater’s side against the cops as a natural reflex.

    Cops 1, teenages thugs 0. Great credit also to Ms. Purpleshirt, for reflecting on her behavior and returning to apologize.

    Insufficiently Sensitive (8906ed)

  18. Chris Hooten is also RODNEY BALKO?

    Mitch (e40959)

  19. The sex of person interfering with officer of the law does not matter unless she is really really HAWT. Cop should have made her do the chicken dance.

    daleyrocks (1d0d98)

  20. radley balko those
    two words strike mortal fear in
    heart every hamster

    ColonelHaiku (2ce3dc)

  21. Yesterday I was on Lake Shore Drive in Chicago when 6 young adults tried to cross it to get to Lake Michigan during rush hour.

    That happens all the time – about ten years I just missed getting into a 10 – car pileup when some jackasses decided they weren’t going to allow “The Man” to decide when and where they could cross LSD.

    Again, Darwinism in action. If you’re dumb enough to take on a lawful individual who has the permission to use lethal force if threatened then don’t get crabby about the obvious result.

    Dmac (3d61d9)

  22. …and don’t even get me started on the idiots on their Harleys weaving in and out of traffic, then get pissed off if you barely miss them while they roared up behind you on your blind side. Hey, don’t wear a helmut if you don’t want to, but don’t ask me to foot the bill if you behave like a jackass.

    Dmac (3d61d9)

  23. no not chicken dance
    make do dance where butt jelly
    jam dont shake like dat

    ColonelHaiku (2ce3dc)

  24. According to the local TV in Seattle, the girl and the cop met yesterday and the girl apologized to the cop for her behavior.

    Huey (efe02b)

  25. ColonelHaiku @23 – You’re killing me!

    daleyrocks (1d0d98)

  26. the visual is what counts in modern america.
    here we have an adult white cop punching a black teenage GIRL in the FACE.
    no wonder michael steele is the only visible black republican in ‘murrika

    wheeler's cat (61c3b8)

  27. Only true if the cop is white and the suspect is black. Or the cop is black and the suspect is black.

    kansas (7b4374)

  28. And, when you get lit up with the gum-balls, you should just drive away, and they shouldn’t chase you (Heh!).

    AD - RtR/OS! (4ae013)

  29. Comment by Dmac — 6/19/2010 @ 8:14 am

    The solution is absolute criminal and civil immunity for motorists who strike jay-walkers.
    The stupid ones will die, and the smart ones will stop their stupid behavior before it gets them killed.

    AD - RtR/OS! (4ae013)

  30. You all have no doubt read about the shover’s prior, um, difficulties with the law?

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2012154761_rosenthal19m.html

    Hence the “apology.” Sounds like a person who will be in trouble with the law pretty much throughout her life, huh?

    Maybe (and I am not holding my breath), she will quit stealing things and hitting people.

    I also found it interesting that her prior…experiences…were at the very end of the article.

    Eric Blair (02a138)

  31. I also found it interesting that her prior…experiences…were at the very end of the article.

    Welcome to the Seattle Times, where the editors wish the proper adjustment of public opinion to be read and digested, prior to the grudging reporting of more relevant events.

    And don’t count on them reporting all of the relevant events, either – the public opinion adjustment is their main reason for existence. They learned that mission from the New York Times and its acolytes.

    Insufficiently Sensitive (8906ed)

  32. That cop should get some kind of
    commendation for showing restraint.
    It’s somewhat fascinating how a lot
    of people will actually witness an
    event through a camera phone. I wonder
    if there will come a day when that’s the
    main way people will communicate with
    one and other face to face- aiming
    their cell phones at each other. Then
    you can just go home and relive the whole
    experience.

    jimboster (fe0b27)

  33. I’m with Brother Bradley at #12 on this one. I’m surprised the cop didn’t use his pepper spray.

    ropelight (2f012b)

  34. darwin principle
    too damn stupid follow rules
    suffer consequence

    ColonelHaiku (2ce3dc)

  35. Beyond the particulars of the confrontation, the woman displays a rowdy, trashy, very foul-mouthed (where “fuck” and “shit” are used excessively) type of behavior and attitude that I’ve observed for decades in a not-insignifcant percentage of the black community.

    I went to grade school that segued from being generally integrated to predominantly black, and the changing culture that went with that became a big turn-off. And that was quite awhile ago, well before the phenomenon of super-rowdy, super-coarse rap music took over.

    Since surveys indicate that up to 90 percent of the African-American community is reliably liberal to leftwing, the socio-cultural quirks that are far too commonplace in it is another reason why I believe leftism truly doesn’t make people kind, generous and humane, or certainly — most certainly — sensible.

    Mark (411533)

  36. Comment by jimboster — 6/19/2010 @ 9:13 am
    Sort of like the dinner-table scene where siblings are talking to each other over their cell phones or via texting.

    Comment by ropelight — 6/19/2010 @ 9:16 am
    There might have too much air movement, that with the surrounding crowd, a lot of the spray would have impacted those not aimed at. Plus, it could have just been a time factor.

    AD - RtR/OS! (4ae013)

  37. Intellectualizing the stomach nausea of seeing an armed man punch and manhandle a young girl

    She wasn’t young, nk, nor was she a girl. She was an adult woman. Don’t use deliberately charged words to make your point.

    You argued that it was appropriate for a Congressman to throttle the neck of a cameraman who shouted to him on the street. Using that logic, how could you possibly claim a punch is not
    an appropriate response to being shoved?

    Some chump (967a70)

  38. SC, maybe the girl was interfering with the police officer’s walking down the street and doing his business….wait a minute!

    Eric Blair (02a138)

  39. Note that, without video, you would have had multiple witnesses to an alleged horrible beating by the cop.

    Patterico (2f4591)

  40. He should have tazed her, bro!

    PatriotRider (8d9a6f)

  41. Some Chump, nk has not demonstrated much in the way of thoughtful consistency lately.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  42. Unless he had his pepper spray in his hand, he would have had to drop his hand to his belt to retrieve it. The way she was attacking the officer, he needed to defend himself with both hands.

    Huey (efe02b)

  43. @T.L. Davis, 0439 hrs said,” I don’t know, I don’t really blame the guy, but there comes a time in any confrontation where you (in this case just before he punches the woman) take a step back to gain situational awareness and make some crucial decisions. That would have been the time, I think, to place one hand on his pistol, inform them all to remain in place and call for backup so they know they aren’t going to get away with just walking away.
    But, I understand how it escalated beyond that point. Adrenaline is a powerful antidote to common sense.

    Situational awareness? He knew the situation and it was that he was in a fight and trying to cuff the first gal and was having a tough time hanging onto her. He knew the situation after he punched the second gal because he kept telling her to stick around (and amazingly enough, she was stupid enough to stay).

    Step back during an altercation? He had to go after the first girl once to keep her from leaving, the second one attacked him, so why would he step back from that attack? His punch enabled him to re-engage the first gal and finally get restrained.

    Put one hand on your weapon? To what purpose? I suspect that he would have let them leave rather than shooting them and he was smart enough to know not to threaten deadly force that he would not be justified in using. You don’t bluff out there, if you say it, you better mean it because there are plenty of nut jobs who will challenge whatever you say.

    Labcatcher (f0ff08)

  44. You are all being way too judgemental – nk is an expert on police work and the law. No one has any right to argue with him unless they’ve accomplished extensive experience in these matters – unless it’s medicine, which nk was only too happy to opine on yesterday.

    Dmac (3d61d9)

  45. BTW, new footage was released regarding the hallowed Palestinian “Relief Flotilla.” What’s most interesting is the explicit instructions from the Hamas leader to start attacking the Israeli soldiers as soon as they boarded their vessel. Once again, those awful Jooos had it coming to them.

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3907170,00.html

    Dmac (3d61d9)

  46. Note that, without video, you would have had multiple witnesses to an alleged horrible beating by the cop.

    Good point, Patterico. Of course, this alleged horrible beating left no marks or bruises on the alleged victim, but that’s not the way it would have played in the press.

    Some chump (967a70)

  47. As said by another poster, I’m not sure who Balko is or why I should care what he thinks. (Nothing new here, just summerizing multiple points already made.)

    I would say that error #1 in evaluating anything is to make quick judgements which are superficial. The “quick take” was:
    1. the crime was jaywalking
    2. jaywalking is a “vitimless crime”
    3. it’s not worth the effort to arrest a jaywalker
    4. If a person is walking away from a police officer, the officer should let the person go “unless it’s something serious”

    – The officer did not strike anyone for jaywalking, the officer struck someone trying to prevent his taking another party into custody.
    – Jaywalking is not a “victimless crime”, as said multiple times on these threads, disrupting traffic brings the possibility of triggering accident which could produce “victims”. (We are assuming, as is the case, that there is traffic.)
    – “Give an inch and they’ll take a mile” By nature we humans gravitate toward getting away with whatever we can, so unless you want to encourage further anarchy, “nip it in the bud”
    – As was mentioned yesterday in another thread, people who try to walk away from the cops may have a reason, such as having an arrest warrant out on them, or violating terms of probation or parole, or they have drugs or weapons, etc. on them.

    It seems apparent that the officer was trying to use minimum force in subduing the suspect, he did not use mace, a club, a tazer.

    It seemed that the observing crowd was somewhat apprecaitive of this, as no one else that I could see joined in with verbal harrassment, etc. This is encouraging, as was the effort by one young man trying help the one suspect from making things worse (which she did, anyway).

    While not intended as a criticism of the officer, many of us feel that he would have done himself a favor in the long run, and will need to in the future, use more effective techniques to subdue a suspect. He basically thought he could “out-muscle” the woman eventually, and did not put a priority on apprehending the person immediately.

    Dafydd – What caused the escalation citywide was, in my opinion, the lack of response by the LAPD to the initial violence at Florence and Normandie — though I’m sure Patterico’s occasional guest poster “Jack Dunphy” would disagree, my take was that the cops at the scene behaved in a disgraceful and cowardly manner,

    Jack Dunphy would disagree, I think, in only who among the police officers ionvolved is to blame. He posted on this a number of weeks ago and put the blame on those higher up in the chain who ordered the officers on the scene to back-off (At least that is what I remember.) He definitely agreed that not getting on top of the situation immediately is what lead to things getting out of control.

    There is no such thing as a “harmless” suspect, if they can walk down the street indepently. You can kill a person with a common pen or pencil if you want to when the person is concentrating on someone else.

    MD in Philly (5a98ff)

  48. Comment by Dmac –
    Last I heard, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard intends to escort the next flotilla when it leaves. That is pushing the envelope to the edge, and probably over, if it happens.

    MD in Philly (5a98ff)

  49. This isn’t rocket science. Resist arrest/citation, and bad things can happen to you. Assault a police officer, and bad things WILL happen to you.

    Tully (4dce1a)

  50. Just FYI: Woman #1 resisting the officer and attempting to flee custody, is a 19-yr-old with a previous arrest for assaulting a police officer. Woman #2, who assaulted the officer and got (righteously) punched in return, is a 17-yr-old previously charged for beating and robbing a 15-yr-old and later for hot-wiring and stealing a car.

    Both young women are live-in residents of institutions for troubled teens with behavior problems. What a surprise!

    Tully (4dce1a)

  51. A line of dialogue from the cop show “Southland” (as I remember it):

    There are no Marquis of Queensberry Rules in a street fight; there is only one rule: Win!

    I think the same thing was said in “The Pacific” re hand-to-hand combat.

    AD - RtR/OS! (4ae013)

  52. Nearly everyone was wrong in this at some point. Once the officer made an issue of the jaywalking, he was stuck with enforcing it, and the jaywalkers were required to accept their ticket and move on.

    But I question the officer’s judgment in issuing the citations. He boxed himself into a lose-lose situation.

    Kevin Murphy (5ae73e)

  53. you mess with da bull
    you get da horn apply here
    and use da crosswalk

    ColonelHaiku (2ce3dc)

  54. But I question the officer’s judgment in issuing the citations. He boxed himself into a lose-lose situation.

    Comment by Kevin Murphy

    How about holding comments until you know the situation? The police were specifically requested to enforce the jaywalking laws in this particular location ( a location in which they had built an overpass specifically to prevent jaywalking, due to the danger…).

    He did what he was required to do. He was not firm enough at the outset to prevent any further problems. It escalated. The punch defused the situation with the least amount of force required.

    NavyspyII (df615d)

  55. Navyspy is correct. This incident occured at a school zone, a high school with numerous young drivers in a hurry to leave campus. Add to that numerous pedestrians, buses, etc. and you have a recipe for disaster.
    A pedestrian overpass was added to mitigate the problem, and this officer was specifically detailed to enforce a “no jaywalking” policy.

    Have Blue (854a6e)

  56. Last I heard, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard intends to escort the next flotilla when it leaves. That is pushing the envelope to the edge, and probably over, if it happens.

    I hope that they try that gambit, and this time the Israelis blow their sh-t up without any warning or boarding tactics whatsoever. They’re going to be blamed no matter what they do, might as well make the point emphatically this time. Stay out of their coastal boundaries, or else face the consequences.

    Dmac (3d61d9)

  57. the Iranian ships should be a legitimate target for Israel as soon as they leave Iranian waters, since they carry governmental forces with the announced intention of violating Israeli waters by force.

    as such, the IDF should have them disappear in the middle of the night on the open ocean…. far from land with only an oil slick and some flotsam left behind.

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  58. But I question the officer’s judgment in issuing the citations.

    Your position apparently is either:

    1) Never enforce laws against jaywalking, or

    2) Don’t enforce such laws in THIS scenario.

    Assuming your position is #2, could you flesh out what factors are present here that make enforcing the laws in THIS scenario an example of poor judgment? Is it the fact that the suspect resisted? Or something else?

    Patterico (c218bd)

  59. Was the officer tasked with giving out a few tickets to help modify behavior and maybe prevent an accident?
    Even if that isn’t the case, I didn’t see what precipitated the jaywalking ticket… my experience with cops is that it is unwise to see a patrol car and just walk out in front of it, flouting the law. (who ever uses the word “flouting” in conversation?) anyway, if she walked out in front of the cop and he decided to put a stop to a bad example then fine.

    Next thing is that a cop can never ever. NEVER. let anyone push him like that in front of a crowd. Male. Female. No matter.
    The girls got better than they deserved. You shove an officer up around the chin and you get what you get. Do it in front of a crowd and he/she has to establish control.
    Personally, if I had pepper spray, I’d have punched her and then sprayed them both (and tried to put them in my fellow officers cars instead of mine)

    A couple years ago I left the gym and ran across 4 lanes ahead of the traffic coming from the changing light, and didn’t see a motorcycle cop.
    He turned and got after me. I thought about running through Saks and ditching him but stopped in the valet lot.
    He assumed I’d seen him in the front at the light and for a while he was very pissed about being disrespected.
    I apologized and told him I didn’t see him, and was wrong anyway and should have used the crosswalk and I would understand if he felt like I needed a ticket… which he then issued.
    I use the crosswalk there now…. or at least I look long and hard for cops.
    I would never, ever push a cop over a jaywalking beef who the f*** does that?

    Who is the idiot who is shooting the video who has no idea that a cop can enforce any law and you cannot touch him/her without risking an escalation of force?
    Push a cop and they can escalate and punch, spray, whack away with a club, tase you…. obviously the youngster taking the video is grossly misinformed about the consequences of behavior

    SteveG (9fb25f)

  60. #18, Mitch, NO I don’t think the cop should have let them go. I think the cop should have sat them down and explained to them about all of the messy accidents that he has to deal with right there because of people jaywalking all the time. That area is right next to a High school, right? Imagine High schoolers having a problem with authority. Wow, who’d-a-thunk. Maybe they need to have a school assembly where some representatives of the police explain how upsetting it is when something happens just because someone was carelessly jaywalking near a busy area such as the area around the school. I also do not think the girls acted appropriately at all, but I don’t think either deserved to get punched in the face. Everyone knows that the best way to deal with high schoolers is with a dramatic and massive display of force and attempted absolute control (snark).

    Chris Hooten (342154)

  61. “…I think the cop should have sat them down and explained to them about all of the messy accidents that he has to deal with right there because of people jaywalking all the time..”

    Well, Mr. Hooten, since you feel so strongly about it, I look forward to you offering to do exactly that as a ride along with the police. And I even more look forward to reading about your experiences “sitting down” people under these circumstances and “explaining” things to them.

    I don’t know where you live, but if you are in Southern California, I am sure that Patterico can set you up to ride along with some police, say in Compton, and “explain things.”

    Just wear your cup.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  62. If the report is true that jaywalking was a chronic and dangerous problem at this school/intersection, don’t you think the school had already counseled its students about the dangers?

    DRJ (d43dcd)

  63. I think the cop should have sat them down and explained to them about all of the messy accidents that he has to deal with right there because of people jaywalking all the time.

    Chris, what on earth leads you to believe that they would sit, let alone stay and listen to his discourse about jaywalking and messy accidents?

    Everyone knows that the best way to deal with high schoolers is with a dramatic and massive display of force and attempted absolute control (snark).

    Everyone knows that the best way to deal with high schoolers is with a dramatic and massive display of force lecturing and attempted absolute control (snark).

    Dana (1e5ad4)

  64. Oh, and Mr. Hooten? You did read about the records of both girls, I hope? I wish you had been there, to sit down and “explain” things to them.

    This, sir, is one of the textbook definitions of rich people condescending to how things are in rough neighborhoods. Oh, I’m sure you will tell me how you were raised on the mean streets of wherever you are from.

    But again, talk is cheap. Whiskey costs money. Set up a ride along. Offer to intercede with these “high school kids” and police. They’ll probably let you do it.

    And I for one would enjoy seeing the video.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  65. No thanks on the Compton ride-along.

    Chris Hooten (342154)

  66. Gosh! Afraid of sitting down with high school students?

    Fact is, you didn’t know thing one about those “students,” did you?

    I hope you do “sit down” those kids and “explain things” to them. The one girl was accused of robbery and stealing a car, the other of shoving cops.

    I would have LOVED to see you showing the police officer the right way to deal with that Seattle neighborhood.

    Funny stuff.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  67. No thanks on the Compton ride-along.

    Firestone Sheriffs then, maybe?

    lots of misunderstood yoots in their AO too, all just needing a little compassionate and understanding communication.

    i’ll even go along with you. man up or shut up.

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  68. Hooten on Cops. The image makes me LOL!

    daleyrocks (1d0d98)

  69. Hooten doesn’t need a ride along, because he already knows everything about police work. Just read his comments. HE IS AN EXPERT. Respect his authoriteh!

    daleyrocks (1d0d98)

  70. I”m thinking “Pay For View.” I wonder how many people would like to see that, for a solid week? I know I would.

    What is the definition of a conservative, again?

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  71. Chris, if you were ever in danger of being taken seriously, either as a debater or, frankly, a vertebrate, you’re now in the clear. Carry on, jester.

    Mitch (e40959)

  72. Mitch, I think what we have here, to be charitable, is a person reasoning (!) from emotions, looking at a video while eating an English muffin one morning. Looking at the altercation, it is easy to say “that cop shouldn’t have punched that kid.”

    Then you find more about the context. And the kid.

    But the most important thing, and this relates back to Mr. Hooten, is that the police officer was there. Nor do any of us live in that Seattle neighborhood. And we are dealing with “bumper sticker” thought: little snippets to replace reason:

    1. Police officers have all the power.
    2. Young people do not.

    And things are not so simple. I ran into this a lot in college. I was actually born in Compton, and raised in a not-so-nice part of Long Beach, California. There were police who went over the top, and there kids who did, too. What I quickly learned is that if I didn’t see it, I really didn’t know what was going on. And having some of my father’s friends on the force taught me that things could get dicey, fast.

    My college friends were all about “The Man” being the problem. How we needed to give lip to the police, to speak “truth to power.” In Bel-Aire, maybe. But that isn’t how it is away from the rich people.

    It’s easy to say a police officer ought to do this or that. That is what the review board does, and generally does very well. Sure, there are exceptions. There are also “kids” who shoot police officers in the face during traffic stops.

    So Mr. Hooten is fairly typical of people who don’t have to work “tough neighborhoods.” No one thinks that police should overstep their bounds. But we. Weren’t. There.

    Any police officer detests the review boards in real life. This will be no different.

    The “kids”? They don’t seem quite so nice, when you look into their backgrounds.

    But it was interesting to see Mr. Hooten, with a liberal knee jerk, define them as high school kids that just need Officer Kruskey to sit them down and explain things to them.

    Which is why I thought a ride along would be a good idea for him.

    It reminds of this classic bit from the late great Richard Pryor:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Txp8B4ek_kk

    (language warning)

    I still say “COPS in Seattle: Featuring Chris Hooten” could make large coin in “Pay For View.”

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  73. I could never be a cop, it takes a special set of skills, not the least of which is a tremendous amount of patience, something that I don’t have. I expect more out of cops than I would be able to deliver myself. This doesn’t mean that I am a hypocrite, just a poor candidate for a cop.

    Chris Hooten (342154)

  74. Maybe he could carry around pictures of recent accidents, as a graphic example of the folly of jaywalking on a busy street. Maybe they could print them on the back of the warnings they hand out.

    Chris Hooten (342154)

  75. No, Mr. Hooten, it means you are a knee-jerk leftist, who doesn’t think things through.

    So go volunteer to help young people to foster understanding. Or quit criticizing people who risk their lives for you. Your choice.

    I know what you will do.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  76. And the COPS show with you would be a riot. Literally.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  77. Okay, Mr. Hooten, you cannot be that unclear on the concept:

    “…Maybe he could carry around pictures of recent accidents, as a graphic example of the folly of jaywalking on a busy street. Maybe they could print them on the back of the warnings they hand out…”

    Again: why don’t you give that a try? Seriously. I want to see film of you doing that at busy intersections near high schools in bad neighborhoods. Or in good neigborhoods.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  78. “… Officer Kruskey…”

    EB, don’t you mean “Officer Krupke”?
    West Side Story

    AD - RtR/OS! (4ae013)

  79. Speaking from the experience of raising three teenagers, the more an adult lectures, the more they don’t listen. Obviously Chris has not raised a teenager. Or possibly he is one.

    Don’t want the ride-along, huh, Chris? What’s wrong? You scared?

    PatAZ (9d1bb3)

  80. Look I don’t think he should have hit her in the face. It is as simple as that. It is an opinion. It is no more or less valuable than anyone else’s opinion, whatever that may be. If you don’t agree with it, fine.

    Chris Hooten (342154)

  81. “…I think the cop should have sat them down and explained to them about all of the messy accidents that he has to deal with right there because of people jaywalking all the time..”

    Actually, I think that was more in line with what he planned to do until they refused to sit down, as I understand he was already discussing the evils of jaywalking to one person when the other two decided to ignore the officers presentation.

    71.I could never be a cop, it takes a special set of skills, not the least of which is a tremendous amount of patience, something that I don’t have. I expect more out of cops than I would be able to deliver myself. This doesn’t mean that I am a hypocrite, just a poor candidate for a cop.
    Comment by Chris Hooten

    Well, we appreciate the candor. Unfortunately just like the foster children ad that says kids don’t need perfect parents, police departments do not have a list of canonized saints waiting to get in. So, I hope you can extend some gratitude to those who don’t have as much patience and/or clear thinking as they would like, but are willing to do the job anyway because somebody does indeed have to do it.

    MD in Philly (5a98ff)

  82. Officer Krusty
    work well with kids like hooten
    Sideshow Bob work narc

    ColonelHaiku (2ce3dc)

  83. What’s happening in the video? I’m quite confused. What’s the problem with the girl?

    Felicia (278a74)

  84. I would rather have less cops that are all good, rather than more cops, some of which are bad. Sort of like food and food poisoning. I would rather have less food that is not tainted, than a whole bunch of food that is tainted.

    Chris Hooten (342154)

  85. I don’t think that cop in Seattle is a bad cop, btw, just that he made a bad decision.

    Chris Hooten (342154)

  86. I in Albuquerque, and I jaywalk all the time. Everyone does. I’ve jaywalked in front of a police car forty or fifty yards away, and the officer didn’t so much as bat an eyelash. If jaywalking was all this girl did, I don’t know why the cop bothered to stop her in the first place. It’s a stupid thing to stop someone over. If jaywalking really was a big problem in the area (as some people have hinted at) then that may be the reason. That said, once the officer decided to make the stop, and discovered that the girl in question was dumb and aggressive, I don’t have any problem with his use of force (though I would’ve thought he would have used some sort of armlock to get the cuffs on and been done with it). It’s still a weird thing to see anyone – cop or not – hit a woman.

    Leviticus (30ac20)

  87. “You can’t always get what you want”, like inadequate police staffing in a crime ridden area means more crime.

    Maybe instead of food and tainted food, it is really nutritious food and junk food. Better to be overweight than dead of starvation.

    MD in Philly (5a98ff)

  88. A bad apple can ruin the whole bushel.

    Chris Hooten (342154)

  89. “If jaywalking was all this girl did, I don’t know why the cop bothered to stop her in the first place.”

    Leviticus – I suggest you read the related background material provided in the links embedded in the several posts on this topic.

    daleyrocks (1d0d98)

  90. leviticus, the police were specifically requested by the school to post someone there to enforce the no-jaywalking, use the overhead-walkway-we-built-for-you instead.

    The issue was not “jaywalking” per-se, as in , “oh look, that person did not walk at a crosswalk”, but as in, “look, that idiot is walking in the middle of traffic and is going to cause an accident”

    Yes, it is a weird thing to see a man punch a woman. He could have used an asp (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASP,_Inc.) and shattered her tibia instead, and maybe it would not have looked as bad, but it would have hurt a heck of a lot more.

    MD in Philly (5a98ff)

  91. “I don’t have any problem with his use of force (though I would’ve thought he would have used some sort of armlock to get the cuffs on and been done with it)”

    Leviticus – I suggest you actually watch the video as well to see how the armlock thingee worked out.

    daleyrocks (1d0d98)

  92. I don’t think he was aggressive enough with the armlock for it to work, he was trying to be gentle, ironically enough. Push that arm up high enough to the neck so she has to go on her tip-toes or have a disloctaed arm and it will work. But that would have been rougher and caused more pain, which he was trying not to do.

    MD in Philly (5a98ff)

  93. Pain compliance….
    At a Pro-Life demonstration some time back here in L.A., the LAPD were tasked to break up the demonstration, and they used pain-compliance arm-twists. Several shoulder dislocations, and I think there was one lower arm fracture of a woman.

    AD - RtR/OS! (4ae013)

  94. In my life I have had to restrain kids with behavior disorders. You do it fast and with maximum effectiveness to get it over with BEFORE it escalates. The cop was way too nice. Either of those girls could have grabbed his service weapon and oops a real mess. Quick decisive, get a quick surrender, no one gets hurt. This lasted way too way long.

    Dan (431719)

  95. Look I don’t think he should have hit her in the face. It is as simple as that. It is an opinion. It is no more or less valuable than anyone else’s opinion, whatever that may be. If you don’t agree with it, fine.

    Your opinions are a lot less valuable than anyone else’s, Hooten, because they never have any factual basis or any congruence to reality.

    None.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  96. *yawn*

    Does that stick make you constipated? Or is it your head?

    Chris Hooten (e758b2)

  97. One bad apple dont
    ruin whole bunch, hooten give
    one more try before

    ColonelHaiku (2ce3dc)

  98. I think it was former Myor Ed Koch who said, “You are entitled to your own opinion, you are not entitled to your own facts.” It is obvious that young Master Hooten has not only not viewed the video, but I doubt that he has read this thread in its entirety. Hence the level of ignorance, in the strictest meaning of that word.

    Gazzer (d79016)

  99. give up on cops, girl

    ColonelHaiku (2ce3dc)

  100. I think Mr. Hooten is a little embarrassed he didn’t know the facts here. He just expressed his gut reaction and can’t back down. Hand out leaflets explaining the dangers of jaywalking? Look at how Mr. Hooten is dealing with people who disagree with him here. The “high school kids” would give him the Atomic Wedgie of Doom.

    Comedy gold level cognitive dissonance.

    Eric Blair (02a138)

  101. Leaflets about the dangers of jaywalking? Who can’t read? I said pictures. Pictures of grisly accidents involving similar idiots that were too lazy to use the overhead walkway.

    Chris Hooten (e758b2)

  102. Maybe they could put up signs with names on them that say “Too lazy to use the overhead? So were all these people that are now dead because of it:” and the list of names with a lot of space left at the bottom.

    Chris Hooten (e758b2)

  103. Mr. Hooten. What is the first rule of getting out of the hole you have dug yourself?

    That’s right: quit digging.

    Eric Blair (02a138)

  104. But by all means, yes, go to that high school and hand out photos. Wear a cup.

    Eric Blair (02a138)

  105. There might be some privacy issues, Chris, especially if it occurred in the same area so they might know the victims. I’m sure it would be effective but most of the drivers’ training videos involve unidentified people and places to avoid the shock of someone seeing a victim they know.

    DRJ (d43dcd)

  106. Pride is expensive, Mr. Hooten, and that shovel must be heavy by now.

    Eric Blair (02a138)

  107. OK, how about a number, then cross it out and put a new number each time an accident occurs.

    Chris Hooten (e758b2)

  108. I get down and dig in the earth with my hands. I don’t need no stinking shovel.

    Chris Hooten (e758b2)

  109. Please tell me 106 was a sock puppet. No one could have so little sense of self as to actually post that themselves.

    Have Blue (854a6e)

  110. Comment by Gazzer-

    I’ve always thought it was Daniel Moynihan, (Senator from NY, I think) who said everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts (or something like that). I think we could use more Democrats like Moynihan.

    The cop was way too nice… Quick decisive, get a quick surrender, no one gets hurt. This lasted way too way long.
    Comment by Dan — 6/19/2010

    Agreed. We’ve discussed before that we don’t want to nit-pick to dump on the officer, but he would have done himself and everyone a favor by being more decisive in the beginning, though in one way it is against your instincts. Police often get training on submission techniques in the academy, but little energy is given (by the dept. as a whole) to review and maintaining those skills

    MD in Philly (5a98ff)

  111. or they could have one little unhappy face with a line through it for each person.

    Chris Hooten (e758b2)

  112. In California (and probably everywhere else) you can tell all the dangerous roads by all the little wreaths and pictures and stuff celebrating peoples’ lives that were lost on that stretch of road (I think it is a Mexican thing).

    Chris Hooten (e758b2)

  113. Chris Hooten,

    When my father enlisted in the Marines at 17, he was shown pamphlets with photos of enlisted men who had contracted STDs. They were grim, graphic and descriptive and were used in an attempt to dissuade young men from becoming involved with the locals and/or prostitutes, lest they too end up contracting a venereal disease. He said it was pretty horrifying but once shipped overseas, made absolutely no impression on the young guys. Out of sight, out of mind.

    Also, remember Reefer Madness sorts of attempts to dissuade youth from drugs?

    I think you seriously underestimate the cynicism of young people.

    Dana (1e5ad4)

  114. Yes, Doc, it was Pat Moynihan.

    AD - RtR/OS! (4ae013)

  115. Well let’s all punch them in the face, then. I’m sure that works much better.

    Chris Hooten (e758b2)

  116. Of cource Reefer Madness/DARE type of approach didn’t work. It was based on bullsh*t.

    Chris Hooten (e758b2)

  117. Daniel/Pat, same thing…

    That was just teasing. Thanks AD for the confirmation/correction.

    MD in Philly (5a98ff)

  118. 113.Well let’s all punch them in the face, then. I’m sure that works much better.
    Comment by Chris Hooten — 6/19/2010 @ 8:28 pm

    You haven’t been paying attention. Rapid, decisive, and painful but not injurious take-down techniques are preferred. Second best are decisive techniques that bring great pain and pysical harm, but don’t look as bad as a punch in the face. (Warning, reader needs to interpret the passage in keeping with the writer’s intent on being serious or sarcastic, and when or where.

    MD in Philly (5a98ff)

  119. “cource” LOL. What the hell is that?

    Chris Hooten (e758b2)

  120. Chris:

    OK, how about a number, then cross it out and put a new number each time an accident occurs.

    Okay, and the white crosses seem effective, too. But I hope there aren’t already a lot of dead kids from jaywalking at that street. The point is to keep from having a lot of dead jaywalkers.

    DRJ (d43dcd)

  121. I understand that, MD, I just thought maybe a non-forceful way of conveying the message would be more desireable. You could always wire the kids up, Clockwork Orange style, and show them video of people jaywalking while giving them nauseau-inducing drugs, but probably there are better ways. 🙂

    Chris Hooten (e758b2)

  122. I still think Mr Hooten needs to show us how to get inner city youth to listen to authority figures. Though I doubt Mr Hooten grew up poor, I’m sure he listened very carefully and respectfully to authority figures when he was 17 or 18 years old.

    Talk is cheap, Mr Hooten. Go forth and show the folks who work there every day how to do things better. And if you do, wouldn’t that be a great thing? Much more important than digging holes on blogs.

    Eric Blair (02a138)

  123. All those pictures in drivers training of drunk driving accidents and those reenactments in the high school quad complete with firefighters and jaws of life, and we still need to arrest underage drunk drivers…. how archaic and punitive America is

    SteveG (9fb25f)

  124. Steve G,

    Red Asphalt. I don’t know if they still show it or not but the new post DRJ just put up “How Not To React to Your Son’s Wreck” sort of proves the point you, me, and others have been attempting to make to Chris Hooten. You can show all the films, pamphlets, photos, etc, and young people will still do very stupid and dangerous things.

    Dana (1e5ad4)

  125. Yeah, you totally have convinced me. Punching them in the face is the best possible means of getting them to stop jaywalking.

    Chris Hooten (e758b2)

  126. Hooten – In the slight chance that you are able to understand, She was not punched in the face for jaywalking.

    She was punched when she interfered with an Officer making an arrest and then assaulted that officer.

    Have Blue (854a6e)

  127. Reading is fundamental, Have Blue.

    But it doesn’t fit Teh Narrative, does it?

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  128. No, no, as an *educational tool*. I totally get it now.

    Chris Hooten (e758b2)

  129. And, for yet another time, I would dearly love to see Mr. Hooten show the folks around these tough high schools how to handle those misunderstood children.

    It would be most educational for him.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  130. In other words, Mr. Hooten: less talk here, more action around your local high school. Do report back.

    Because if you don’t, why, you are just some kibbitzer.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  131. A tool of education?

    Chris? I decline to opine.

    SteveG (9fb25f)

  132. I suspect we have an argument here on the political points of the outfall of the action and not the action itself.

    Ag80 (1b8eea)

  133. I still think Mr Hooten needs to show us how to get inner city youth to listen to authority figures.

    The only person in the public spotlight that I’m aware of who has walked the walk and certainly talked the talk — in terms of his being a notorious big mouth — is Howard Stern. I know years ago he publicly commented on his attending grade schools in New York that went from being predominantly white to mostly black. He didn’t pull any punches in describing the social-cultural changes that went with that. Since I also went through a similar experience, I can relate to his observations.

    Rowdy, rough, uncivil behavior is evident among a percentage of young (or younger) people anywhere and everywhere. But what is evident among a uncomfortably high percentage of black youth would make a naif’s head spin—referring to the typical person walled away in the suburbs or some other setting ideal for a limousine liberal in particular. Merely a hint of what I’m talking about is evident in the behavior of the jaywalker.

    The simpleminded liberalism (Hi, Jesse Jackson, Hi, Al Sharpton!!) that pervades the black community makes such dysfunction even worse and much harder to ameliorate.

    Mark (411533)

  134. Primary responsibilities include but are not limited to maintaining and managing office web site, maintaining the computer hardware, maintaining the law books, doing legal research (including looking up relevant legal codes), answering telephones, setting appointments, and billing clients. I created the content for the firm’s web site and assisted in a child custody appeal.

    there is a culture of cowardice at the LAPD.

    Had soldiers acted the way the LAPD did, they would have been court-martialed for dereliction of duty.

    Primary responsibilities include but are not limited to maintaining and managing office web site, maintaining the computer hardware, maintaining the law books, doing legal research (including looking up relevant legal codes), answering telephones, setting appointments, and billing clients. I created the content for the firm’s web site and assisted in a child custody appeal.

    Except in that case, the ATF shot first.

    I still think Mr Hooten needs to show us how to get inner city youth to listen to authority figures. Though I doubt Mr Hooten grew up poor, I’m sure he listened very carefully and respectfully to authority figures when he was 17 or 18 years old.

    In some places, authority figures have the same mentality as inner city youth.

    Michael Ejercito (249c90)

  135. Yeah, you totally have convinced me. Punching them in the face is the best possible means of getting them to stop jaywalking.

    Comment by Chris Hooten — 6/19/2010 @ 9:20 pm

    If your goal is to be taken seriously, saying things like this is a poor technique for accomplishing it.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  136. I guess Kevin Murphy abandoned the thread. Too bad, since I thought I asked a pretty good question at 57.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  137. Patrick, you committed a no-no.
    You asked a troll for a specific solution to a specific problem. All that does is put his little feets into hyper-drive.

    AD - RtR/OS! (71ba66)

  138. Patterico makes a good point. I think that there are many police officers who elect not to give citations under particular circumstances. There are other police officers who always give them. But the law or rule exists regardless. Breaking that law or rule is a conscious decision, and has consequences, like most everything in life.

    When I was in graduate school, there was a guy in my lab who bicycled to work every day. Early one morning, he cycled through a stop sign and was given a ticket. He was infuriated.

    “Well,” I told him, “you did run the stop sign. And you knew that bicyclists were supposed to stop there.”

    “But there was no one around. It was safe.”

    I was confused. How did he get to make the decision regarding safety for others? The police officer could have given him a warning, I suppose, but my guess is that my labmate mouthed off to the officer (though I don’t know for sure).

    Now, my labmate could think the citation was silly, but still pay the ticket without complaint. After all, he knew the rules, he got caught. That makes sense to me.

    But he thought that he could define when things “mattered” and when they didn’t.

    And therein lies the problem. Many folks who think jaywalking is no big deal are making a presumption about safety, effect on others, etc. Fact is, many people die from being hit by cars while jaywalking, or cause traffic accidents, etc.

    Again, you can think it is silly. But complaining about the law when you knew the law existed, and made a conscious decision to disobey it? That doesn’t seem very mature to me.

    Robert Heinlein (pbuh) popularized a philosophy called “rational anarchism” in his great novel “The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.” Rational anarchists only follow laws they feel like following—but take full responsibility for violating the laws they do.

    Just my opinion.

    Eric Blair (02a138)

  139. And as for Mr. Hooten, he is just reasoning from his gut, without the facts. I don’t say that to be snarky; I’m sure he means well. But I cannot imagine some guy handing out leaflets outside a tough inner city high school at a busy intersection—without expecting to get his behind kicked.

    Eric Blair (02a138)

  140. Don’t forget that handing out leaflets necessarily involves impeding people walking down a public street. Those people can therefore be reasonably certain they are about to get assaulted and grab the leafleteer by the neck and take any cellphone they may possess. Assault and battery doesn’t count if you are approached in public and so no charges will be filed.

    /sarc

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  141. Now, Stashiu3, I thought that. But I didn’t say that. Like Voltaire, I defend to my death your right to express yourself!

    Eric Blair (02a138)

  142. Incidentally, Stashiu3, you did read that the drunken bully manhandled others in the past (according to the manhandled high schooler)?

    And are we yet sure about the cellphone pilferage? It looked like it to me.

    Eric Blair (02a138)

  143. Well, I’m sure Hooten will be along shortly to explain why “That’s different!”. 😉

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  144. And are we yet sure about the cellphone pilferage? It looked like it to me.
    Comment by Eric Blair — 6/20/2010 @ 12:33 pm

    It seems pretty clear he took it at least briefly. I’d bet he didn’t keep it though or we would be hearing more about it. I did hear about the other incident and I’d bet it’s a pattern of behavior.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  145. I still say he is a drunken bully, and is a poor excuse for a congressperson (and that is saying something). And I wonder how that whole “impede progress” argument would have worked with a young woman asking the questions. My guess is that he still would have acted like a drunken bully. But I hope that the response would have been different.

    Eric Blair (02a138)

  146. What is my goal? At that point I was totally fed up with the “how dare you have that opinion” attitude. Yes, I dare to have that opinion. It diverges from most of you on this issue. Deal with it.

    Chris Hooten (eff1e4)

  147. It is rather easy for us to “deal” with your opinions, Hooten. They never have any factual basis and so “dealing” with them consists of pointing out that your opinions are nonsensical.

    A task you never make very difficult at all.

    This whole “my opinions are as good as yours” horse manure is typical egalitarian, liberal nonsense actually. Because opinions that are based on irrationality, a lack of common sense, and a stubborn refusal to actually learn anything are not just as good as anyone else’s.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  148. My opinions are not based on irrationality or lack of common sense, or a refusal to learn anything. Some peoples’ are, but not mine. Maybe you should look in the mirror and check for that “projection” you accused me of.

    Chris Hooten (eff1e4)

  149. Again, Mr. Hooten: talks is cheap, whiskey costs money. You are the one being critical of the situation. You are also the one who sits on his behind, critizing, instead of going to the schools and “talking sense” to those “teenagers.”

    Less posting here. More helping teenagers in tough high schools, please. Don’t forget to have someone video the results.

    Please?

    Also, you think you are much more clever than you are: you claim that you think your opinion is “just as good” as anyone else’s, but here you are, digging your hole deeper with each word. Then you move on to the extremely mature “If I am one, you are worse” style argumentation. If it is no big deal to you, and you are certain, you would have moved on.

    If you are, as you say, so confident, why beat this particular deceased equine?

    You really are fooling no one, you know.

    And if you actually believe what you are writing, well, I fully expect to see video of you “talking sense” to those poor benighted “students.” If not, you are just blowing smoke.

    Because, remember, you are the one second guessing the people who were there. No one was shoving you, or cursing in your face.

    Just more empty talk.

    Eric Blair (02a138)

  150. Oh, and Mr. Hooten? When you get both Stashiu3 and Patterico suggesting you are, um, not being straightforward in your dealings, perhaps you should rethink your tactics.

    As I say, you aren’t quite as slick as you perceive.

    Eric Blair (02a138)

  151. My opinions are not based on irrationality or lack of common sense, or a refusal to learn anything.

    I beg to differ. You said: “Yeah, you totally have convinced me. Punching them in the face is the best possible means of getting them to stop jaywalking.” That reveals a severe lack of common sense and understanding.

    Severe.

    Patterico (a23cea)

  152. Actually, Patterico, the guy is just playing games. Remember his posts over on Bradblog? I was just curious precisely how deep he would dig his own hole.

    Surely you have some friends in Compton who could take him around to talk with some of the teenagers about safety issues, right?

    Eric Blair (02a138)

  153. On a previous thread I asked a question which was never answered, “When was the last time C.H. made a contribution of value?”

    MD in Philly (5a98ff)

  154. My guess, MD, is that he feels he is “balancing” our extremist rhetoric. Um.

    Eric Blair (02a138)

  155. Chris Hooten,

    Not wishing to pile on, I do want to point out that at the When Should Cops Punch Girls post, it became increasingly clear that your intent was to castigate the police officer, cast negative aspersions upon him, and make him out to be wrong without providing any viable alternative, legal option or reasonable behavior he could have taken in place of what he did. Not until Comment #103, did you actually have a suggested option – and that was soundly proven as unreasonable and not plausible.

    Instead of acquiescing or at the least, considering that, in light of the facts, perhaps the officer did react in the best way possible, you continued to stubbornly hang onto your opinion that he was wrong. Opinions are great to have and develop, but when there is evidence to the contrary, especially when offered by one who has been in the very same position, it’s perhaps time to reconsider the opinion and recalibrate. And not to stubbornly cling just to save face or to be right.

    Dana (1e5ad4)

  156. Patterico doesn’t understand sarcasm. News at 11.

    Chris Hooten (caece4)

  157. Breaking News. Hooten doesn’t understand honesty or logic.

    JD (d55760)

  158. Again, Mr. Hooten, you aren’t anywhere near as clever as you would like to believe. Your continuing excavation is sad.

    Eric Blair (02a138)

  159. http://dailycaller.com/2010/06/21/disclose-act-shields-democrat-leaning-groups-from-disclosure-requirements/

    waaaaaaay off-topic, but I just wanted to point out that Myron was wrong, yet again.

    JD (d55760)

  160. I am always being accused of being crazy, ignorant, or on drugs, which seems to be the modus operandi around here when your magically convincing arguments don’t convince someone. Then you start attacking their intelligence, because they think different than you, and don’t necessarily feel your evidence is compelling. That is very obnoxiously arrogant behavior. I STILL don’t agree with you about this. That doesn’t mean I’m stupid, a troller, or even a troublemaker. Your reaction to my opinions tell much more about your “us V.S. them” mentality, than anything about me.

    Chris Hooten (caece4)

  161. That you do not agree with us about something does not mean that you are stupid, in that you are correct. However, the idea that you are not a troll, or not stupid, is not supported by any objective evidence.

    The girl that shoved the cop apologized, Hooten.

    JD (d55760)

  162. In case you did not understand that above, Hooten, I will clarify. Disagreeing with people here is not proof of your stupidity. The existence of your stupidity is proof of your stupidity.

    JD (d55760)

  163. JD, he is convinced that he will reach China soon.

    I’m still waiting to see video footage of his experience talking about the dangers of traffic with teenagers, instead of jawboning the people who actually have to work there.

    Eric Blair (02a138)

  164. Eric – THE COP PUNCHED HER FOR JAYWALKING!!!!eleventy Why do you hate pedestrians?

    JD (d55760)

  165. See, now there is an example of the fine reading skills here. I never suggested he punched her as a punishment for her jaywalking.

    Chris Hooten (caece4)

  166. There was not enough emo in your faux outrage there, Hootie. Try again.

    JD (d55760)

  167. I did sarcastically suggest that punching them in the face is the best way to get them to stop jaywalking, however.

    Chris Hooten (caece4)

  168. Punching them in the face is the best possible means of getting them to stop jaywalking.

    You claim sarcasm now, and that may be true, but you also wanted to hand out pictures, and post a list of numbers, and crossed out faces to show the people injured by jaywalking. In short, your sarcasm is difficult to discern because it so closely tracks with your stated position(s).

    What other laws would you advocate not being enforced?

    JD (d55760)

  169. You know, JD, Mr. Hooten reminds me of an old Abbott and Costello routine.

    Costello says something particularly ill-considered, and Abbott replies with “You’re crazy!”

    “Crazy?,” Costello exclaims. “They said Galileo was crazy! They said Einstein was crazy! They said Luigi was crazy!”

    Confused, Abbott asks “Luigi? Who is Luigi?”

    “My uncle,” Costello replies with great pride and a tone of triumph. “He is crazy.”

    Again, Mr. Hooten, you are just here to argue and “speak troof to powder.” If you really cared about the safety of those teenagers, and how “poorly” the officer acted, you wouldn’t waste time trying to argue. You would be trying to make things better (and having kids give you atomic wedgies, but my point remains).

    Nope. You are just here to act like an ass. It’s easier to criticize than to help people, after all. And easier to criticize than to actually “walk the walk” with the police.

    And keep digging. You make yourself look so very smart!

    Eric Blair (02a138)

  170. Eric – My favorite was when he was claiming to have watched the video, then stated things as fact that were in direct contradiction to the actual video.

    JD (d55760)

  171. Remember when Hootie first dropped in, and tried to claim that he was non-partisan and just interested in honest discussion of the issues?

    JD (d55760)

  172. Actually, my favorite was whe Mr. Hooten decried name calling and insults—and daley found his posts on Bradblog attacking several people here with insults and name calling. It was fun to watch him dance poorly around that.

    Nope. Just a troll.

    And he has just about arrived in China by now, with all his digging.

    Eric Blair (02a138)

  173. I forgot about that one, Eric. A bradblog cellar-dweller that lectures others on honesty, civility, etc … priceless.

    JD (d55760)


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