“Make-My-Day” Shooting in Denver
[Guest post by DRJ]
The Denver Post reports what it describes as a “Make-My-Day” shooting. The article doesn’t provide many details, other than suggesting that the deceased was burglarizing the home. Google indicates the Colorado “Make-My-Day” law is the Castle Doctrine with a twist:
“The Colorado law differs from the traditional legal notion of self-defense in several ways. A person need not feel threatened to invoke force. In fact, the law provides that property crimes, not just violent crimes, are grounds for use of force.”
There’s a reason property crimes were death penalty offenses in the West. Taking someone’s horse or property was often the equivalent of a death penalty for that person or his family. But in this case, it was the middle of the night and the homeowner was outnumbered and apparently threatened with a weapon. That sounds like self-defense in almost every State.
— DRJ
“…multiple gunshot wounds to the head….”
Nice shooting, for 2:20 am, huh? Hope I could be that cool under pressure.
Virtual Insanity (d93c26) — 6/18/2010 @ 3:46 pmI wish we were that smart in Illinois.
BT (74cbec) — 6/18/2010 @ 3:55 pmSo nk was correct?
Old Coot (f722a6) — 6/18/2010 @ 4:01 pmWhere can I donate ammo?
jim2 (fc7836) — 6/18/2010 @ 4:02 pmI wonder if the homeowner had previously told this misguided miscreant to “Get off my lawn”?
In CO, and TX, Yes! In IL, NO!
AD - RtR/OS! (3b92f0) — 6/18/2010 @ 4:03 pmgood for him for defending himself, and for saving the taxpayers a boat load of money.
i hope they prosecuted his partners for the death.
redc1c4 (fb8750) — 6/18/2010 @ 4:17 pmIn North Carolina, anyone forcibly entering your home is fair game. No other evidence is required. Law was passed after an increase in door breaking assaults against elderly folks by young thugs. After law was passed such incidents were greatly reduced.
emil (746a98) — 6/18/2010 @ 4:26 pmjust this morning I heard a news report over the radio about a home invasion in colorado springs, 5 guys broke into a womans home one armed with a shotgun, stole her laptop and left.
rumcrook¾ (4a9bee) — 6/18/2010 @ 4:30 pm3.A person need not feel threatened to invoke force.
So nk was correct?
Nice one Old Coot, nice. Heh!
Gazzer (d79016) — 6/18/2010 @ 4:31 pmThe fastest growing crime in England is daytime burglary, also called breaking and entering. The young punks have no fear of finding an armed homeowner and homeowners have been prosecuted for defending themselves with wooden clubs. The punks laugh.
This is the “broken windows” theory of policing that someone referred to the other day here. Allowing petty crime to go unpunished quickly leads to more serious crime.
Mike K (8df289) — 6/18/2010 @ 4:32 pmMike K, stabbing has also become de rigeur due to the absence of guns in the UK.
Gazzer (d79016) — 6/18/2010 @ 4:53 pmDenver has an 11pm curfew law for those under 18. That was Duran’s first mistake.
TimesDisliker (fbe777) — 6/18/2010 @ 4:55 pmA person need not feel threatened to invoke force.
So nk was correct?
Comment by Old Coot — 6/18/2010 @ 4:01 pm
Well, yes. I did that for a living.
nk (db4a41) — 6/18/2010 @ 5:00 pmOld Coot – nk was totally incorrect. There is no comparison between an unlawful invasion of someones residence in the middle of the night with multiple armed intruders and a college student speaking to a Congressman on the street.
/But you knew that. 😉
Have Blue (854a6e) — 6/18/2010 @ 5:05 pmYou gotta a right to walk down a public street unbothered. You say that ain’t so, show me the law.
nk (db4a41) — 6/18/2010 @ 5:09 pmShow us where it is the law (…a right to walk down a public street unbothered…)!
You made the assertion, back it up, Counselor!
AD - RtR/OS! (3b92f0) — 6/18/2010 @ 5:13 pmYou do not have the right to assault and batter a person who merely speaks to you, or a lot of NY squeegee bandits would have gotten black eyes.
Have Blue (854a6e) — 6/18/2010 @ 5:15 pmGo do something pleasurable to yourself, AD.
That’s not the topic here, anyway. You break into my house, I don’t question, I don’t warn, I don’t give you a second to kill me or my family. I just shoot you in the head until I run out of ammunition.
nk (db4a41) — 6/18/2010 @ 5:17 pmnk – Better not live in Chicago then. Our betters will treat you very badly.
Have Blue (854a6e) — 6/18/2010 @ 5:21 pmJust as I thought…your statement about the right to proceed down a street free of confrontation was just BS.
AD - RtR/OS! (3b92f0) — 6/18/2010 @ 5:23 pmIt must get very lonely in that anti-septic bubble you reside in.
Jackie Chiles is back I see with his latest version of “had to shoot someone in my own kitchen on accoubnt of how tough I’ve always been even when a toddler.” Over-compenstae much?
Gazzer (d79016) — 6/18/2010 @ 5:23 pmOK, I just gotta say it…
Now that (the shooting by the homeowner) was gun control I could support.
Sorry. Kind of like “squirrel!”
iconoclast (c91a7c) — 6/18/2010 @ 5:25 pmThere’s an Illinois law that says that if you use a prohibited weapon to defend yourself in your own home, or own land, or own fixed place of business, you cannot be prosecuted under a local ordinance for its unlawful possession. Give me a couple of minutes to find it online — I’m a hard copy statutebook person.
nk (db4a41) — 6/18/2010 @ 5:30 pm(720 ILCS 5/24‑10)
nk (db4a41) — 6/18/2010 @ 5:36 pmSec. 24‑10. Municipal ordinance regulating firearms; affirmative defense to a violation. It is an affirmative defense to a violation of a municipal ordinance that prohibits, regulates, or restricts the private ownership of firearms if the individual who is charged with the violation used the firearm in an act of self‑defense or defense of another as defined in Sections 7‑1 and 7‑2 of this Code when on his or her land or in his or her abode or fixed place of business.
(Source: P.A. 93‑1048, eff. 11‑16‑04.)
Sigh.
nk (db4a41) — 6/18/2010 @ 5:37 pmSigh is right. Complete non sequitir.
Gazzer (d79016) — 6/18/2010 @ 5:42 pmNon sequitor to what?
Make your question clearer.
nk (db4a41) — 6/18/2010 @ 5:47 pmthey want nk gun
ColonelHaiku (2ce3dc) — 6/18/2010 @ 5:47 pmhaiku say must pry out his
cold and dead rat paws
That sounds like self-defense in almost every State.
Dunno about California…
Blacque Jacques Shellacque (9fe4a5) — 6/18/2010 @ 5:50 pmColonel Haiku,
I am a poet. You’re an idiot.
nk (db4a41) — 6/18/2010 @ 5:51 pmhaiku snuck up from
ColonelHaiku (2ce3dc) — 6/18/2010 @ 5:55 pmbehind and say to last Greek
“hey… want see my watch?”
I wasn’t asking a question, I was merely commenting that the law you cited has nothing to do with the question being asked in comment #20. The other evening you actually conceded that you were wrong and then moments later went back to digging the hole you had created for yourself, before announcing that you would no longer discuss the law with us uneducated rubes. It’s like you have a kind of Tort Tourettes.
Gazzer (d79016) — 6/18/2010 @ 5:57 pmnk suffer much
ColonelHaiku (2ce3dc) — 6/18/2010 @ 6:02 pmseparation disorder
when rat mother leave
Tort Tourettes – I like that. I’m stealing that Gazzer.
Have Blue (854a6e) — 6/18/2010 @ 6:02 pmI can shoot MOA all day with my keyboard, too. But I have a life.
nk (db4a41) — 6/18/2010 @ 6:07 pmYou’re welcome HB.
Gazzer (d79016) — 6/18/2010 @ 6:09 pmnk have a life
ColonelHaiku (2ce3dc) — 6/18/2010 @ 6:11 pm“life” exist in Illinois?
haiku learn something
Righteous self defense and home protection, but I think this will stay with the homeowner for many, many years.
GeneralMalaise (2ce3dc) — 6/18/2010 @ 6:19 pm“…You break into my house, I don’t question, I don’t warn, I don’t give you a second to kill me or my family. I just shoot you in the head until I run out of ammunition.
Comment by nk — 6/18/2010 @ 5:17 pm ”
The last time you spoke of someone coming into your house you said you would offer them refreshments. The topic of discussion then was someone breaking in through the front door.
Machinist (497786) — 6/18/2010 @ 6:21 pmBJS…In CA, if someone breaks into your home while you are present, you shoot them, and when the cops arrive, you just state that “You were in fear for your life, or the lives of others (if present)”. The intrusion itself is considered a hostile act, and assumes that the perp wishes to do harm to any and all present.
AD - RtR/OS! (3b92f0) — 6/18/2010 @ 6:23 pmEnd of story.
The distinction between property crimes and violent crimes is meaningless. Even when you are not in proximity to the criminal, it is inherently violent to be the victim of a property crime. The stress it creates is violent. Steal a car from a family trying to make ends meet and you have hurt them physically.
Kevin Stafford (ff3afb) — 6/18/2010 @ 6:31 pmComment by Machinist — 6/18/2010 @ 6:21 pm
Since I believe that remark was directed at me, let me be clear:
AD - RtR/OS! (3b92f0) — 6/18/2010 @ 6:34 pmI would not enter nk’s home even if invited.
I can shoot MOA all day with my keyboard, too. But I have a life.
Yet you still come here constantly – take your own advice for change.
Dmac (3d61d9) — 6/18/2010 @ 7:00 pmIf 720 ILCS 5/24‑10 stemmed from SB 2165 in 2004, Obama voted against it and it was passed by overriding the governor’s veto. It was written in response to the prosecution of Hale DeMar, a Wilmette resident, who used a handgun to defend his residence from a home invader in 2003. The Village of Wilmette prosecuted him for the illegal possession of a firearm since it banned handguns. It ultimately dropped the charges. After the 2008 Supreme Court decision on the DC gun ban, Wilmette decided to no longer enforce its gun ban, but I believe it remains on the books.
daleyrocks (1d0d98) — 6/18/2010 @ 7:27 pmCivility rule now applies in this thread as well.
Patterico (c218bd) — 6/18/2010 @ 7:28 pmThe Denver Post article quotes Tom Smith
saying property crimes are different in
the West and points out that horse thievery was a hanging offense not so long ago.
I have read that there is a coroners report in Inyo County CA dated about 1880 where the Coroner determined manner of death was suicide after he examined three or four men hanged from a tree limb after being caught.
I did not get to the examine the record before moving to the Great North Wet.
GaleH (4fbede) — 6/18/2010 @ 7:29 pmGreat North Wet
Very, very good!
AD - RtR/OS! (3b92f0) — 6/18/2010 @ 7:32 pm“Civility rule now applies in this thread as well.”
Patterico – I took a little 600 mile jaunt up above the cheese curtain today. What did I miss?
daleyrocks (1d0d98) — 6/18/2010 @ 7:42 pmPatterico – I took a little 600 mile jaunt up above the cheese curtain today. What did I miss?
Not really sure. I have had only time to skim.
Patterico (c218bd) — 6/18/2010 @ 7:48 pm“#42
Comment by Machinist — 6/18/2010 @ 6:21 pm
Since I believe that remark was directed at me, let me be clear:
I would not enter nk’s home even if invited.
Comment by AD – RtR/OS! — 6/18/2010 @ 6:34 pm”
No Sir. I was simply pointing out to him his change of position from what he stated before.
Machinist (497786) — 6/18/2010 @ 9:26 pmMachinist – Just wait for the next thread. You can do it again.
daleyrocks (1d0d98) — 6/18/2010 @ 9:44 pmThe last time you spoke of someone coming into your house you said you would offer them refreshments. The topic of discussion then was someone breaking in through the front door.
Comment by Machinist — 6/18/2010 @ 6:21 pm
Hmm. I thought it was about the President giving a tour of the White House to a veteran and his family. And I thought I said “If somebody knocks on my door with friendly intentions ….”
nk (db4a41) — 6/18/2010 @ 11:27 pmIs this https://patterico.com/2009/12/15/meet-the-obamas/#comment-597954 what you’re talking about?
Or this? https://patterico.com/2009/12/15/meet-the-obamas/#comment-597983
nk (db4a41) — 6/18/2010 @ 11:52 pm“life” does exist in
Icy Texan (d1faea) — 6/19/2010 @ 12:24 amIllinois, but stifled by
ten percent tax rate
#53, NK,
No and no. I don’t think we can discuss it here given the host’s comment at #45. Thank you.
Machinist (497786) — 6/19/2010 @ 12:46 amWell, you can email me at njkritAThotmailDOTcom.
I did you the courtesy of linking the comment I thought you were talking about — return me the favor by linking the comment you’re talking about.
nk (db4a41) — 6/19/2010 @ 1:01 amYou know, I’m getting on in years and that thing I use to remember with just isn’t as good as it used to be.
As for Patterico enforcing a civility rule — his site, his rules. But DRJ did it first.
nk (db4a41) — 6/19/2010 @ 1:05 amI’m afraid I don’t recall the thread. The discussion was about intruders entering the home. I mentioned that someone coming through my door would be met with gunfire. Your response was that people coming through your door were offered refreshments.
I don’t care to search for it so if you don’t recall it, forget it. I suspect you were not attempting to have a reasonable discussion, as has seemed to be the case so often of late.
I responded to AD because he thought I was addressing him.
Machinist (497786) — 6/19/2010 @ 2:25 amMust have been this one, then. http://krites.blogspot.com/
nk (db4a41) — 6/19/2010 @ 4:55 amSorry, correct link here.https://patterico.com/2008/04/26/unexpected-houston-case-on-defense-of-property/#comment-337348
nk (db4a41) — 6/19/2010 @ 4:58 ampatterico not
ColonelHaiku (2ce3dc) — 6/19/2010 @ 7:54 amwant posters insult argue
act like laker fan