The Back Story: Obama and Israel
[Guest post by DRJ]
The Instapundit speculates about what’s behind Obama’s recent treatment of Netanyahu:
“But it’s also possible — I’d say likely — that there’s something else going on. I think Obama expects Israel to strike Iran, and wants to put distance between the United States and Israel in advance of that happening. (Perhaps he even thinks that treating Israel rudely will provoke such a response, saving him the trouble of doing anything about Iran himself, and avoiding the risk that things might go wrong if he does). On the most optimistic level, maybe this whole thing is a sham, and the U.S. is really helping Israel strike Iran, with this as distraction. The question for readers is which of these — not necessarily mutually exclusive — explanations is most plausible.”
I think there is something more going on but I’m not sure it’s solely, or even mainly, about Iran. On March 13, Mark Perry writing at Foreign Policy made some surprising claims:
“On Jan. 16, two days after a killer earthquake hit Haiti, a team of senior military officers from the U.S. Central Command (responsible for overseeing American security interests in the Middle East), arrived at the Pentagon to brief Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Adm. Michael Mullen on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The team had been dispatched by CENTCOM commander Gen. David Petraeus to underline his growing worries at the lack of progress in resolving the issue. The 33-slide, 45-minute PowerPoint briefing stunned Mullen. The briefers reported that there was a growing perception among Arab leaders that the U.S. was incapable of standing up to Israel, that CENTCOM’s mostly Arab constituency was losing faith in American promises, that Israeli intransigence on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict was jeopardizing U.S. standing in the region, and that Mitchell himself was (as a senior Pentagon officer later bluntly described it) “too old, too slow … and too late.”
The January Mullen briefing was unprecedented. No previous CENTCOM commander had ever expressed himself on what is essentially a political issue; which is why the briefers were careful to tell Mullen that their conclusions followed from a December 2009 tour of the region where, on Petraeus’s instructions, they spoke to senior Arab leaders. “Everywhere they went, the message was pretty humbling,” a Pentagon officer familiar with the briefing says. “America was not only viewed as weak, but its military posture in the region was eroding.” But Petraeus wasn’t finished: two days after the Mullen briefing, Petraeus sent a paper to the White House requesting that the West Bank and Gaza (which, with Israel, is a part of the European Command — or EUCOM), be made a part of his area of operations. Petraeus’s reason was straightforward: with U.S. troops deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan, the U.S. military had to be perceived by Arab leaders as engaged in the region’s most troublesome conflict.”
Perry later updated his post to say Petraeus communicated with Admiral Mullen, not the White House, and that Petraeus only asked for authority over Palestinian territories and not Israel. But his bottom line remained unchanged:
“There are important and powerful lobbies in America: the NRA, the American Medical Association, the lawyers — and the Israeli lobby. But no lobby is as important, or as powerful, as the U.S. military. While commentators and pundits might reflect that Joe Biden’s trip to Israel has forever shifted America’s relationship with its erstwhile ally in the region, the real break came in January, when David Petraeus sent a briefing team to the Pentagon with a stark warning: America’s relationship with Israel is important, but not as important as the lives of America’s soldiers. Maybe Israel gets the message now.”
Yesterday, ABC News reported Petraeus’ response:
“Army General David Petraeus, the commander of Central Command, says comments attributed to him on the Foreign Policy blog on March 13th—that “Israeli intransigence…was jeopardizing U.S. standing in the region”—were simply inaccurate.
***
As for the accuracy of the statements attributed to Petraeus or the alleged CENTCOM briefing? They’re “flat wrong,” Petraeus says. Responding to a question from the American Spectator while speaking at St. Anselm College in New Hampshire, the General said there was never any “mention of [America] lives” in any of his statements. So what did he say? Petraeus explained that he had submitted a document in which he described the “various factors that influence the strategic context in which” American troops operate in CENTCOM.And the Middle East peace process, he said, is one such factor that influences the environment—but is one of many, also including “a whole bunch of extremist organizations” as well as “a country that has a nuclear program”—meaning Iran. “We have all the factors in there,” he said, and the Middle East peace process “is just one.”
Petraeus further stated that he never asked for the West Bank and Gaza Strip to be transferred from EUCOM to CENTCOM—and he certainly didn’t make any direct request of the White House.”
So what is the real story? I don’t know, but I hope the Obama Administration’s policy decisions aren’t as muddled as this story suggests.
— DRJ
I had lunch today with a Persian gentleman who has lived in the U.S. for almost 10 years. He is a reasonable and intelligent guy, able to see all sides of an argument. I was stunned by his assessment of the U.S./Israel relationship.
He feels that Israel has taken U.S. dollars, goodwill and ‘sympathy for the little guy’, and leveraged a position. The U.S. has too much invested in Israel to turn away, and is now like a henpecked spouse. This is a guy who understands the value of an open society, the freely elected government in Israel, and the opposition to Islamic extremism, and he wants a regime change in Iran. But he is livid that the U.S. is not part of a win-win relationship. He made some good points, I have to say.
TimesDisliker (8a5b81) — 3/27/2010 @ 2:06 am[…] and the Prime Minister of Israel is Calling More recommended: Patterico’s Pontifications: The Back Story: Obama and Israel Also recommended: Nice Deb has an excellent post today… God Help The USA and […]
Surreal & Disgraceful… Add to the ‘POTUS Snub List’: Obama Disses Israeli PM Netanyahu During White House Visit, Leaves Him to “Have Dinner with Michelle & the Girls” « Frugal Café Blog Zone (a66042) — 3/27/2010 @ 3:40 amSo Times, what did he have to say about HAMAS and their charter calling for the destruction of Israel. The PA isn’t too hep on their existence either. Win win for the Pali leadership is a bunch of Jews floating away face down west from Haifa. The rest is Kabuki theater.
Mark Perry is an arabist like Alastair Crooke and formed Conflicts Forum with him. A decidedly Islamist friendly place. I don’t know if anti-Semite is too strong but Perry can’t write anything without making Israel look as bad as he can or make our position look as bad for Israel as he can.
Bill M (30bf04) — 3/27/2010 @ 5:28 amThe Real Story??
Bibi probably didn’t sit facing Mecca, or showed the sole of his shoe, or didn’t say (Peace be upon Him) when addressing the President(Peace be upon Him)..those Muslims are touchy…
over 150,000 Americans in Iraq/Afghanistan and the A-rabs get there Hijabs in a wad over 1600 houses in Jerusalem??? Which was the Capital last time I was there…
Frank
Frank Drackman (7ee2ca) — 3/27/2010 @ 5:41 amBottom line Obama hates Israel. They stand up to Obama appeasment of the Terrorists. I’m surprised Obama didn’t Monica the “protector of Mecca and Medina” instead of just bowing to him.
PCD (1a283e) — 3/27/2010 @ 5:47 amThe Obama administration assists and submits to our enemies while offering acrimony and insults to our allies.
Get used to it or get rid of them.
GeneralMalaise (2bc526) — 3/27/2010 @ 6:32 am“…I hope the Obama Administration’s policy decisions aren’t as muddled as this story suggests.”
I suspect dear friend that it is even more muddled than this story suggests. Obama has made a total mish-mash of foreign policy; from bowing to kings and emperors to pissing off allies in eastern Europe to his infamous “apology tour.”
God help us!
GM Roper (6afe02) — 3/27/2010 @ 7:16 amYes, how dare we support a loyal ally who’s being threatened with complete annihilation every day of their waking lives, and has survived all – out attempts on it’s survival via two wars launched by all of the country’s surrounding them. They’re hated simply because they’re Jews, and have successfully defended themselves against their self – professed enemies.
Someone ask TimesDisliker what would his friend feel like if his home country was surrounded by Jewish states that have pledged fealty to the wanton killings of millions of Persians. Funny, no one ever asks these stalwart defenders of Arabia that uncomfortable question.
Dmac (ca1d8c) — 3/27/2010 @ 7:34 amThe theory that Obama’s public anger toward Israel is providing impetus for them to strike Iran implies rank cowardice on the part of the administration. The idea that the United States needs that cover reveals what our weakness is on the world stage as perceived by Obama.
The “Palestinians” have been pawns of the Arab nations for more than 40 years. If they had seriously wanted peace in the Middle East, there would have been peace. It is the Arab nations we have been too weak to stand up to for obvious reasons, rather than Israel than have delayed this process.
daleyrocks (718861) — 3/27/2010 @ 7:57 amcheck.
Dan Collins (6e9303) — 3/27/2010 @ 7:59 ammate
daleyrocks (718861) — 3/27/2010 @ 8:03 amI am disappointed but not too surprised that there has not been more outrage by American Jews and supporters of Israel. The childish inhospitable snub directed at a guest in your home is embarrassing even aside from the diplomacy angle. To pointedly not feed a guest at meal time while you announce you are going to eat is just rude. To do so because a sovereign nation has decided to build some apartments for Jews in its capital is beyond explanation. As a Jew and an American, I am embarrassed by our President and the lack of righteous indignation in the Jewish community.
Roberta (d10b97) — 3/27/2010 @ 8:14 amYou talk to any Arab, Muslim or Christian, and they hate Israel. I think much of it is the loss of face when a bunch of Jews come from Europe and create a military and economic superpower in the desert. Before 1948, Palestine was a wasteland. Many of the European Jews came determined to reverse the Nazi stereotype of Jews as “cosmopolitans” who lived by money lending and could not create wealth except by preying on Christians. Of course, Jews had been banned from owning land in Europe for centuries. They had invented capitalism because they had to have a way of sharing ownership and transporting their possessions when forced to move.
Many young Jews were determined to prove they could be farmers and they formed the kibbutz to prove it. Unfortunately, they brought socialism from Europe but it made more sense when they were beginning and had enemies everywhere. They had never owned land so having the state own the land made more sense than it would for us.
Anyway, Netanyahu has had a lot to do with dismantling the socialist state and allowing private enterprise and reducing the obstructions of the bureaucracy. Israel is now a powerful economy with a level of innovation similar to what we used to have.
The Arabs see this and they hate it. However, they also rely on Israel to protect them from Iran, especially now that Obama has made us look ineffective. There are forces underneath that I hope Petraeus sees. I would hate to see him get enmeshed in the maneuvers of the Arabs without looking beneath the surface. I’ve been reading about that briefing for a week.
Mike K (2cf494) — 3/27/2010 @ 8:34 am“You talk to any Arab, Muslim or Christian, and they hate Israel”
That may be for self-preservation, Mike K.
GeneralMalaise (2bc526) — 3/27/2010 @ 8:40 am#3 Bill M. and #7 Dmac, I am a supporter of Israel. I have been in many conversations with American Muslims, where they say something crazy and imply that they would be happy to see Israel disappear or at least split from the U.S.
Your loaded questions aren’t helpful, and they ignore the reality that both the U.S. and Israel are losing credibility in any pursuit of peace. I get that Israel offered 98% of what the Palestinians wanted (on two occasions) and that Arab nations don’t want the Palestinian issue solved. But the U.S. has already squandered a lot of goodwill, and now looks like a chump.
My point is that things are moving in the wrong direction. This guy’s perception is real, and is not wrong; he loves the U.S., and sees the U.S. in a way I found shocking. Military action hasn’t worked. Diplomacy hasn’t worked. World opinion is moving in the wrong direction, and things are deteriorating. I’m admitting it. Please let me know if you have a solution. Cheers.
TimesDisliker (6a9a04) — 3/27/2010 @ 8:42 amhref=”http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/boot/265971″ target=”_blank”>Here is a more detailed take on the same manufactured controversy
Marc Lowenstein (be871e) — 3/27/2010 @ 8:52 amtry again
Marc Lowenstein (be871e) — 3/27/2010 @ 8:52 amPCD: Monica as a verb. Well played!
Old Coot (9e58d8) — 3/27/2010 @ 8:56 amThey send suicide bombers to blow up pizzerias, hospitals, synagogues, They steal elections, and
ian cormac (349188) — 3/27/2010 @ 9:04 amshoot protesters on the street like wild dogs and you’re talking about perceptions
#18 Ian, yes I am talking about perceptions. My lunch companion understands that Iran is a corrupt cesspool of lies, and that censorship and religious oppression is keeping down the people of the Middle East. That is why he came to the U.S.
You are typing ‘bumper sticker’ arguments, that have no value other than making the declarer feel good for a minute. This guy’s perceptions should be important; if his views reflect the same thing as the Middle Eastern leaders in this main article, it means that the U.S. has no credibility. Nobody wants to throw in with us, and certainly would not publicly support us.
The U.S. can’t deal with Iran effectively, and the UN (especially Russian and China) are not throwing in with us for sanctions on Iran. Something has to change, and showing the U.S. President a flow chart to cover Netanyahu’s @$$ is not it. Terror is working. Suicide bombers, kidnappings, etc. are working. Why? Because of the “perceptions” you disdain.
Again, let me know if you have a solution. Cheers.
TimesDisliker (6a9a04) — 3/27/2010 @ 9:27 amThis sort of clarifies who Obama is. He’s not a leader who happens to be a bigot. He’s anti-Semitic and pro-Arab, a taskmaster delegated with the goals of those who put him in power. His mid-east agenda is coming into laser focus. It actually seems more calculated than muddled. The comment about dinner with his family was a cultural shout-out, which I didn’t know the significance of right away. Truly, elections have consequences. None of this is above his pay grade. He knows what he’s doing.
Vermont Neighbor (109a3f) — 3/27/2010 @ 9:35 amIf the ‘perceptions’ have nothing to do with the truth, how valid are they. This administration is going ‘full dhimmi’ and yet it gets nothing for it’s troubles. Of course, the Chinese, are willing
ian cormac (349188) — 3/27/2010 @ 9:40 amto trade oil for their assistance with nuclear
technology, what the Uighurs, bite them back for
that. Same with the Russians, they are playing a very dangerous game
It’s clear Obama isn’t going to stop Iran from making an atomic weapon and using it on Israel. The same is true of the EU, the UN, and NATO.
Therefore, Israel has a choice: attack Iran, or be attacked by Iran.
Consequently, Israel will attack Iran.
ropelight (dfb431) — 3/27/2010 @ 9:42 amActually “dinner with his family” was an outright lie. Michelle and the kids have been/were on a three or four day tour in New York City. So when Obama “went to have dinner with the wife and kiddies while you think about”, he was simply going off somewhere in the White House to insult Netanyahu–while eating alone.
You know if the Anointed One wants to this ritual humiliation of our (now former) friends and allies, why doesn’t he spare the guys the expense and bother of a trip to Washington D.C.? He can just bang out an announcement at a press conference that, “I don’t like England and Israel. They’re not on my BFF list anymore.”
Mike Myers (3c9845) — 3/27/2010 @ 9:51 am“They send suicide bombers to blow up pizzerias, hospitals, synagogues, They steal elections, and
shoot protesters on the street like wild dogs and you’re talking about perceptions.”
Comment by ian cormac
Spot. On. When was it, again, that we lost our principles and sense of right and wrong?
GeneralMalaise (2bc526) — 3/27/2010 @ 10:01 am“This sort of clarifies who Obama is. He’s not a leader who happens to be a bigot. He’s anti-Semitic and pro-Arab” …president who 90% of Jewish Americans will support in 2012.
snips (6a0094) — 3/27/2010 @ 10:07 amAgain, let me know if you have a solution. Cheers.
No problem – if we (and the rest of the Western World) had any spine, we’d initiate a blockage of the oil exports from Iranian ports immediately, and demand that they allow us to dismantle their nuke operations – or else. They can’t even process their own oil without shippping it elsewhere, and it’s been estimated that their economy would be in tatters within three months after that operation is put into action. We could have three carrier battle groups operational in the Gulf within a few weeks (we already have one there), so an effective blockade could be done without question.
We won’t do it, because this POTUS is among the most feckless since Carter – but that’s a real and provable solution to the quandry. BTW, this is not a new solution, it’s been speculated upon previously over the past two years. But it could work, provided we have the will to carry it out, and make it clear to the Iranian population that our quarrel is not with them, but with their insane Mullahs.
Dmac (ca1d8c) — 3/27/2010 @ 10:11 amHe feels that Israel has taken U.S. dollars, goodwill and ’sympathy for the little guy’,
Actually, the “little guy” in the minds of many folks on the left — of which Obama is one — is the sad, dejected, miserable, poor Palestinians, deserving of a pity party. And nothing makes a lot of liberals feel better or more relevant than when they can hold a pity party.
By contrast, the Israelis are comparatively prosperous, democratized and Westernized, which doesn’t allow for a oh-you-sad-underdog type of reaction from the left.
Therefore, I don’t think there is anything militarily inscrutable or strategically complex about Obama’s current position towards Israel. I think he’s just showing his true colors right now.
Mark (411533) — 3/27/2010 @ 10:30 am#26 Dmac, thank you for your thoughtful reply. My lunch companion suggested something similar, that the U.S. invade and occupy the southern part of Iran to choke off the oil and economically cripple the government.
He says the Iranian people like the U.S. But have no faith in the U.S., especially after watching former Eastern bloc countries betrayed by withdrawing the missile shield, the U.S. turning a Somali warlord into a regional leader, the screw-up of basing the invasion of Iraq on WMDs (I know, I know, but that is the short-hand), and the “perception” that after 10 years a bunch of illiterate guys running around in dirty nightshirts waving pistols are somehow still competing with the U.S./NATO western military for control of Afghanistan.
Interesting that he also doubts the will of the U.S. people and government, and he sees that doubt as understandable due to the lack of results in Afghanistan/Iraq. He sees momentum going in the wrong direction, as Petreus also does. We need a win. Anyway, I was stunned at how weak and lame he thinks the U.S. is, and the blatant disrespect countries like Brazil, UK, China, etc. are now showing because they no longer fear, respect, have faith in our currency, or even like us.
He is also aware that he is speaking from the safety of the U.S., and could never say these things without being imprisoned or worse in the country of his birth.
TimesDisliker (6a9a04) — 3/27/2010 @ 10:37 amActually “dinner with his family” was an outright lie.
I haven’t seen that anywhere else. However, if it’s an accurate description of who was or wasn’t in the White House at the time Netanyahu was visting, that will show just how underhanded, dishonest and devious Obama was (and is).
As for a high percentage of American Jews, and their opinion of people like Obama, their ideology/politics is not just as important as their ethnicity or religion, it’s actually more important. IOW, they are liberals, first and foremost, more than they are Jews. The same holds true for a large cross section of black America.
Mark (411533) — 3/27/2010 @ 10:39 amTD, I agree of course about the blockade, but I don’t think we should have one soldier’s footprint on the ground in Iran. One thing I’ve learned over the years from some of my Persian immigrant neighbors is that while they may hate the Mullahs, their national pride may be stirred in the wrong way if we attempt to invade any part of their home country. All it would do is give so many of the US critics around the world more ammunition to portray us as the Infidel Aggressor of peaceful Arab states, and never mind that no one of Persian descent thinks of themselves as Arabic in any way, shape or form. They look down on their neighbors as uneducated dogs, no question about it.
It’s a fine line, but if we had a POTUS who didn’t loathe the military and his own country so much, we could pull it off.
Dmac (ca1d8c) — 3/27/2010 @ 10:52 am“their ideology/politics is not just as important as their ethnicity or religion, it’s actually more important”
That’s the proper attitude for all Americans, isn’t it?
snips (6a0094) — 3/27/2010 @ 10:52 amDennis Prager wrote something last week that the party should be referred to as Social Democrats, as in Europe.
I didn’t know Michelle and the kids were in NY. But his statement re dinner seemed so odd that it only made sense after reading that Arabs don’t dine with Jews.
I can only hope that the 90% who did vote for him won’t be fooled in 2012. The Hollywood left won’t leave his side, of course. Apparently Clinton also had dire polling- around 65%- of those predicting he wouldn’t win re-election. I can only say that Clinton’s response to America’s differences was inclusive whereas Obama’s handlers are catering to a small, rabid base. This is so much *not* the post-partisan post-racial president, we should file a class action lawsuit for deceptive advertising.
Vermont Neighbor (0e568c) — 3/27/2010 @ 10:53 am+1
Obama’s global reparations. Chip meet shoulder.
Vermont Neighbor (0e568c) — 3/27/2010 @ 11:02 amThat’s the proper attitude for all Americans, isn’t it?
It certainly will be a more honest and accurate one, definitely when it comes to a variety of people on the left. The liberals who love to rally around — or be martyrs or victims about — their gender, ethnicity, race, religion, sexuality, while sidestepping the fact that it’s really basic leftism that often animates them far more than anything else.
Similarly, there are all those throughout the media who pretend they’re neutral or un-biased and downplay how much of what, in fact, influences them are basic liberal biases.
Mark (411533) — 3/27/2010 @ 11:04 am“My lunch companion understands that Iran is a corrupt cesspool of lies, and that censorship and religious oppression is keeping down the people of the Middle East.”
TimesDisliker – Heh! So please explain how the situation is the fault or responsibility of the United States or Israel. You make no sense.
daleyrocks (718861) — 3/27/2010 @ 11:21 amThe problem with a topic like this is that it is like the plot of “The Recruit” or of a “24” episode. To figure out who is really on whose side and why is not clear (if it is) until the end of the show.
The one thing I think can be counted on is that you can’t tust Obama. If one can determine what to do after that, more power to you.
MD in Philly (59a3ad) — 3/27/2010 @ 11:35 amAt Political Punch, Tapper reports a story about getting the new START treaty. It differs from prior “behind the scenes with Obama” stories in that it does not have him asking “withering” questions or stepping in heroically to bring two parties together.
This time, we get Hard Line Obama: Willing to walk away to make a point, and let the other party come running back to placate him.
I suspect that story was told to Tapper to “explain” the way Bibi was treated. Obama is being tough, and Bibi will come around.
I suspect he learned the technique of ignoring world leaders from China and India at the Copenhagen Climate Summit.
MayBee (ee4d93) — 3/27/2010 @ 11:54 amYou always have to remember one thing. This is a civil war within Islam. Osama was trying to attack the Saudi royal family by attacking us. He thought we were weak and would withdraw from the middle east if struck. It’s a bit like the Japanese misconception that led to Pearl Harbor.
We have punished Osama and his men but I personally think it is time to let the Afghans fight it out without us. Iraq was always a better bet for a stable country with as much democracy as a “shame-honor society” could handle. Pakistan is milking us like the lefties say Israel is. India is our natural ally; Pakistan is not.
I think that Netanyahu is the only present Israeli leader with the balls to attack Iran. His brother led the Entebbe raid. Obama is cornering him and that is not wise. He is not a pussy like Tipi.
Mike K (2cf494) — 3/27/2010 @ 11:58 amIf true Netanyahu should have walked out of the White House and flown home.
As for Arabs pestering the United States regarding the Palestinians the US reply should simply be when the Arabs treat them like brothers instead of dogs then their complaints will be given consideration. After the first Gulf War Kuwait and Saudi Arabia expelled three hundred thousand Palestinians. Jordan just recently stripped four hundred thousand Palestinians of their Jordanian citizenship. The West Bank was part of Trans-Jordan from 1948 to 1967 (when they foolishly attacked Israel). The bulk of the Jordanian population is Palestinian. Indeed Jordan is in fact the Palestinian State. Yet it has stripped a substantial part of its population of its citizenship.
The Egyptians block the entry and exit of Palestinians in to Gaza for their border point with Gaza in addition to tightly controlling what enters Gaza from Egypt. Again Gaza was Egyptian from 1948 to 1967. Just lovely how they treat their own.
The Arabs understand that America needs oil but if push comes to shove they also understand America doesn’t need Arabs. They know this and have contempt for the US and the West because of our vast capabilities and our weakness in using it. Something that they would never allow themselves to be in their eyes (and rightfully so) be so intentionally weak and allowing themselves to be humiliated when they don’t have to. While no doubt it would bring pleasure to them to have America squeeze Israel, it would bring the US no gain. They would see once again that being allied to the US is a fools delusion. Screwing an ally doesn’t you get you brownie points with your adversaries. Just more contempt and derision and probable war since your adversaries misjudge you. Nor does screwing an ally bring you brownie points with your other allies but rather mistrust on their part towards you. How risible are the Arabs/Muslims in their public delusions that but for America a billion Arabs and Muslims would be a match for five million Israeli Jews. The Israeli’s should invert the problem on the Arabs by stating when they treat the Palestinians like brothers instead of dogs and quit their occupation of Kurdistan and the other Arab subjugated peoples then there is something to legitimately discuss in the so-called peace process. In the meantime if the Israeli’s are going to do the time they might as well commit the crime. They should start treating Arabs the same way Arabs treat their own, like dogs and expel them. And set Iranian oil fields on fire as a cautionary example of Sharon’s dictum “they have the oil but we have the matches”.
Unlike the Muslim World Israel has something America wants and truly needs: real intellectual property. And that is not a commodity that is fungible and can be bought on the open market. There is a difference between peddling paint and canvas and producing art and that is the difference between the Arabs and the Israeli’s.
cubanbob (409ac2) — 3/27/2010 @ 11:59 amI tell you right now that if the Israelis think the Iranians are an imminent danger to them, they’ll act. And they won’t give one damn what the US or anyone else thinks.
JEA (04f3ca) — 3/27/2010 @ 11:59 amConcern troll is concerned. We should have invaded Gaza and the West Bank instead of Iraq, cleaned them up like we did West Germany and Japan, and then laid down the law to Baghdad and Tehran.
Skwiself (7c068a) — 3/27/2010 @ 12:02 pmI’m feeling rather cynical these days but given that, two possibilities jump out:
1) Judging from the personality/character of our president, I think ultimately, underneath all the posturing and machinations of this administration re Israel, it’s a simple matter of Mr. Obama laying the groundwork necessary to become and be seen as The Peacemaker – the one who brought peace to the middle east. This would an enormous feather in the cap of his presidency (along w/HCR), and quite simply put, he wants that feather. This seems first and foremost about him, and then about Israel/Palestine. He could accomplish what no other president has been able to…he could build a wall of international peer pressure via shunning, or shaming, to force Netanyahu to acquiesce to his demands…certainly the American political climate is ripe for this as well as through Europe.
2) The most important relationships we have are the ones we covet, care for, and work the hardest to preserve. The president has not evidenced this in the least with regard to Israel. Again, given his self-serving behavior, his purposeful distancing of the U.S. away from Israel is in part to appease the rest of the world, and to force Israel’s hand with Iran. It’s a win-win for the president: he won’t have any complicity or share blame if Israel attacks Iran, and the problem of Iran is taken care of.
In both scenarios, the president comes off a winner. And that’s mostly what he appears to be about.
Dana (1e5ad4) — 3/27/2010 @ 12:05 pm“Unlike the Muslim World Israel has something America wants and truly needs: real intellectual property. ”
Sorry, I think America values oil more than interesting new plastic surgery techniques…
snips (6a0094) — 3/27/2010 @ 12:07 pmMike K, do you think that if Iran pushes Israel hard enough – to the point where Netanyahu would go into attack mode – might Netanyahu turn the tables and refuse to exercise his power to attack and instead use it as leverage forcing Obama to make a public stand with Israel before any attack took place? Sort of beat him at his own game, so to speak…
It would give Israel American ‘cover’ in the eyes of the world (not that Netanyahu seems to care much about that), but also teach Obama a perhaps necessary lesson: Don’t try to force the hand of one stronger and more capable than oneself.
Dana (1e5ad4) — 3/27/2010 @ 12:18 pm“In both scenarios, the president comes off a winner. And that’s mostly what he appears to be about.”
He is nothing if not self-serving, Dana. He could also be the most narcissistic personality who has ever held the office.
GeneralMalaise (2bc526) — 3/27/2010 @ 12:18 pm“the sad, dejected, miserable, poor Palestinians, deserving of a pity party.”
Pal terrorists (and Hezbollah terrorists…same thing) have been murdering Americans for 40 years.
The Pals are the enemies of my blood, and the minute people like myself gain power in America(which is bound to happen one of these days), the Pals are going to get the same thing the Nazis, Japanese Imperialists and the Baathists in Iraq got.
In the meantime, the liberals can play their little realpolitik games, and try to be pals with the Pals to their heart’s content. They won’t be in power forever.
Dave Surls (47852a) — 3/27/2010 @ 1:21 pmHe could also be the most narcissistic personality who has ever held the office.
He’s in a close race with Clinton and Wilson, IMHO.
Dmac (ca1d8c) — 3/27/2010 @ 1:28 pmAnd all three had most of their formative adult life experiences while in the halls of academia or the government.
Dmac (ca1d8c) — 3/27/2010 @ 1:29 pmThis is just part N of the thing that started at Obama’s major speech about whatever in Cairo.
If anything good happens because of it, it will be an accident.
Flurmf (d480f9) — 3/27/2010 @ 1:30 pm“and the minute people like myself gain power in America(which is bound to happen one of these days), the Pals are going to get the same thing the Nazis, Japanese Imperialists and the Baathists in Iraq got.”
Obama’s about as close to a Roosevelt Democrat (the guys who beat the Nazis and Imperial Japanese)as we’re likely to see in the White House for the foreseeable future.
snips (6a0094) — 3/27/2010 @ 1:31 pmI would like to think decisions of war and peace are made in a better manner than playing a poker game, not sure when someone is serious or bluffing trying to manipulate.
Reagan’s “trust but verify” seems so simple and reasonable that the intellectuals apparently loathe it.
Bush’s original policies of “you’re with us or the terrorists” and “comply with treaties by choice or we will force you” likewise was pretty straightforward, when the world understood that he meant it and wasn’t bluffing, at least for a few months.
Just think what we might have accomplished if the Dems were more concerned with the country’s welfare than their own political fortunes.
If only there was a better way to distinguish between intellectually honest differing opinion protected under the First Amendment and self-centered and nation-harming carping, other than a functional MRI.
[note: fished from spam filter. –Stashiu]
MD in Philly (59a3ad) — 3/27/2010 @ 1:44 pm“I tell you right now that if the Israelis think the Iranians are an imminent danger to them, they’ll act. And they won’t give one damn what the US or anyone else thinks.”
This is part of what we pay them for.
[note: fished from spam filter. –Stashiu]
imdw (fbb933) — 3/27/2010 @ 1:47 pm“Obama’s about as close to a Roosevelt Democrat (the guys who beat the Nazis and Imperial Japanese)as we’re likely to see in the White House for the foreseeable future.”
Gee… I think you may have forgotten the men and women of our armed forces who played a role in WWII… certainly at least as heroic as your average, garden variety “Roosevelt Democrat”… sarcasm\off.
GeneralMalaise (2bc526) — 3/27/2010 @ 2:01 pmWhat a detestable a–hole you really are, imadouchebag. Go take your views somewhere where they’ll be more appreciated – like a site for Holocaust deniers, for example.
Dmac (ca1d8c) — 3/27/2010 @ 2:23 pmAh, look; the non sequitur spewer woke up. Did u have a nice nap?
Icy Texan (036801) — 3/27/2010 @ 2:26 pm#55 was, of course, directed at i-mainly-desecrate-willingly over his deep respect & high regard [sarc/] for the state of Israel.
Icy Texan (036801) — 3/27/2010 @ 2:50 pmIMDW you are a racist and a Nazi.
May Obama come sneaking in the night and take your family out first.
highpockets (c5de3a) — 3/27/2010 @ 3:22 pm“Sorry, I think America values oil more than interesting new plastic surgery techniques…”
That must be why America is wildly popular among Arabs and has always been a strong supporter of the Arabs against Israel.
Right?
Rofl.
[quote]Obama’s about as close to a Roosevelt Democrat (the guys who beat the Nazis and Imperial Japanese)as we’re likely to see in the White House for the foreseeable future.[/quote]
I’m not sure what this is supposed to mean, as I find it hard to believe that any man who has occupied the White House with perhaps the exception of that massively incompetent buffoon Buchanan would have fought and beat the Nazis and Japanese Empire.
Of course, the country also rewarded the Roosevelt Democrats for their almost 15 years of one-party rule by giving the GOP control of the House in 1946. So, I mean, I guess that whole beating tyranny thing transcended party lines. At the time. Same can’t be said today. And if it can, just barely.
skwiself (9c54c6) — 3/27/2010 @ 3:26 pmwouldn’t* have fought
skwiself (9c54c6) — 3/27/2010 @ 3:27 pmMarc Lowenstein,
Thanks for the link. I confess I wasn’t initially smart enough to know that Perry’s story was exaggerated, although I’m certainly aware of the willingness of many American diplomats to smear Israel and prop up the Arab nations. But my question isn’t what Petraeus said — I believed him when he said Perry’s story isn’t true. What troubles me is what the Obama Administration may have read into Petraeus’ reports and statements.
We all see things through the prism of our experiences and beliefs and, depending on the topic, some of us are better at looking at both sides of the issues than others. I question whether the Obama Administration is capable of neutrality when it comes to Israel.
DRJ (daa62a) — 3/27/2010 @ 3:59 pmRoberta #11:
I wish you’d share your thoughts on this further. It’s something I don’t understand about American Jews.
DRJ (daa62a) — 3/27/2010 @ 4:00 pmNobody wants to throw in with us, and certainly would not publicly support us.
Publicly support us on what?
Gerald A (a66d02) — 3/27/2010 @ 6:47 pmsnips is probably right, Obama is the closest thing we’ll see to the guy who extended the Great Depression by more than five years.
SPQR (26be8b) — 3/27/2010 @ 7:15 pmThis needs fixing. For imdw.
Vermont Neighbor (0e568c) — 3/27/2010 @ 7:51 pm“IMDW you are a racist and a Nazi.”
Why’s that? You think I find our support for Israel a problem? No. I think this is a feature.
“May Obama come sneaking in the night and take your family out first.”
I’ll be leaning on a pillow. But not you, right?
imdw (803b85) — 3/27/2010 @ 7:58 pm“Obama’s about as close to a Roosevelt Democrat (the guys who beat the Nazis and Imperial Japanese)as we’re likely to see in the White House for the foreseeable future.”
Sad, but true.
He doesn’t seem too interested in fighting people that have attacked the United States, and murdered our citizens though.
OTOH, he hasn’t rounded up thousands of innocent American citizens and packed them off to concentration camps (yet), so I guess we should be thankful he’s similar to Roosevelt and not EXACTLY like Roosevelt.
Dave Surls (47852a) — 3/27/2010 @ 7:59 pm“It’s something I don’t understand about American Jews.”
They seem to not act according to the caricature that wingnut goys have developed of their culture. Must be something about them then.
imdw (404fc5) — 3/27/2010 @ 8:01 pmThe ironic part to me about Perry’s Foreign Policy blog post is it expects us to believe the American military is concerned because the Arab world views the U.S. as a weak sister due to the unresolved Israeli-Palestinian problem. That problem has been going on for decades. What’s new is Barack Obama who, except for the American media, is universally viewed as a soft touch.
I wonder if Petraeus’ report included that factor?
DRJ (daa62a) — 3/27/2010 @ 8:09 pmI’m not a wingnut guy, imdw. Try to keep up.
DRJ (daa62a) — 3/27/2010 @ 8:10 pm“I’m not a wingnut guy, imdw. Try to keep up.”
But oh so goy.
imdw (8d4faf) — 3/27/2010 @ 8:15 pmIts all projection on imdw’s part, DRJ. All projection. At least, when he’s not doing the lame pretending-not-to-get-it act.
SPQR (26be8b) — 3/27/2010 @ 8:18 pm“They seem to not act according to the caricature that wingnut goys have developed of their culture.”
imdw – It is curious that they align themselves with liberal anti-semites, don’t you think? Jimmy Carter for example.
daleyrocks (718861) — 3/27/2010 @ 8:19 pmimdw – Where is Hymietown? A prominent Democrat was talking about it a while back.
daleyrocks (718861) — 3/27/2010 @ 8:25 pm“imdw – It is curious that they align themselves with liberal anti-semites, don’t you think? Jimmy Carter for example.”
I think part of the wingnut goy caricature is seeing things in terms of totalist black or white “alignments.” I don’t think this is something that occurs only to Jews. It’s just amusing to see it expressed by wingnut goys more delicately and in a way that betrays their innocent ignorance.
imdw (017d51) — 3/27/2010 @ 8:27 pmHow would you answer my inquiry to Rebecca?
DRJ (daa62a) — 3/27/2010 @ 8:59 pmDRJ…I think somebody’s been drinking tonight. The thing I like best about this troll is how bloody obviously a troll he or she acts.
Eric Blair (21af67) — 3/27/2010 @ 8:59 pmIt’s something I don’t understand about American Jews.
I think you would if you perceived such people not in terms of their religion or ethnicity (or race, gender, sexuality, etc, ad nauseum) but in terms of their politics. IOW, you really should say “I don’t understand leftists or, better yet, ass-backwards limousine liberals—who just so happen to be Jews.”
Speaking of which, including ass-backwardsness, I’m reminded of a guy I was speaking with a few weeks ago. He’s black and — surprise, surprise — a big-time liberal. He fits the definition of “limousine liberal” to a T—eg, I’ve caught him doing back flips to avoid paying payroll taxes, and he sends his son to a private Catholic school.
It was both pathetic and amusing because one day he started to rail about Clarence Thomas being a “Tom” (ie, “Uncle Tom”) and sputtered about Thomas “mistreating women.” Pathetic and amusing because this guy also happens to be a big fan of Bill Clinton—he mentioned excitedly not long ago about going to some lecture that Clinton will be giving in LA.
Observing such people (and the guy I’m talking about is in his 60s) reminds me of watching immature, screwball kids.
Mark (411533) — 3/27/2010 @ 9:05 pm“How would you answer my inquiry to Rebecca?”
You mean Roberta? I don’t know. Ever been to a Seder? Read through a few of the plethora of Haggadahs?
imdw (d472cb) — 3/27/2010 @ 9:05 pm“I think part of the wingnut goy caricature is seeing things in terms of totalist black or white “alignments.””
Good thing you never do that right, imdw?
daleyrocks (718861) — 3/27/2010 @ 9:06 pm“I think you would if you perceived such people not in terms of their religion or ethnicity (or race, gender, sexuality, etc, ad nauseum) but in terms of their politics.”
I think the most important thing to understand about most American Jews is that they are Americans, not Israelis.
Pretty simple concept to grasp…
snips (6a0094) — 3/27/2010 @ 9:08 pmimdw,
Yes, Roberta … not Rebecca. (I’m sorry Roberta.) And does your response mean you aren’t going to answer my inquiry?
DRJ (daa62a) — 3/27/2010 @ 9:09 pmI’m loving that imdw is using the word “plethora.” He or she really is drunk tonight!
Boy howdy, does imdw surely love those insulting little labels for different groups! And note the claims to Absolute Jewish Moral Authority there—so it makes it okay for imdw to act like a freaking anti-Semite. I mean, he calls gentiles “goys” and everything!
Methinks the troll doth protest too much…as usual.
Eric Blair (21af67) — 3/27/2010 @ 9:11 pmDRJ, I recommend you make imdw take an internet sobriety test first.
Eric Blair (21af67) — 3/27/2010 @ 9:12 pm“And does your response mean you aren’t going to answer my inquiry?”
My response means only you know what you don’t know. There’s a whole Internet’s worth of education out there. I just gave you a few ideas that have to do with the current time of year.
“Absolute Jewish Moral Authority there”
You guys are really really weird.
imdw (8bb494) — 3/27/2010 @ 9:14 pmAs a Jew and an American, I am embarrassed by our President and the lack of righteous indignation in the Jewish community.
I’m glad you asked the question of Roberta, DRJ. What is it within the community that discourages said response which would by all standards be not only reasonable but seemingly, expected…I hope Roberta returns.
(There is an excellent symposium at Commentary which attempt to answer the question(s). It’s worth reading.)
Dana (1e5ad4) — 3/27/2010 @ 9:16 pm“Ever been to a Seder? Read through a few of the plethora of Haggadahs?”
imdw – Your answer to the above?
daleyrocks (718861) — 3/27/2010 @ 9:18 pmThanks for the link, Dana.
DRJ (daa62a) — 3/27/2010 @ 9:23 pmmost American Jews is that they are Americans,
And, again, that they’re liberal, or leftwing, or “progressive” Americans.
I’ve mused in the past that if much of the Jewish community suddenly became politically moderate to rightwing, a lot of liberals (Jews included) would start to sympathize with flat-out, garden-variety Anti-Semites—and not the Middle-Eastern-ized, Palestinian-ized ones but the KKK-ized ones.
Similarly, if much of black America suddenly became ideologically moderate to conservative, a lot of liberals (African-Americans included) would start to grow misty-eyed for the days of Jim Crow.
Also, nothing more pathetic than to observe anti-Semitism — spewed forth at places such as Obama’s former church — in the black community. That’s because to be both leftwing and bigoted means such people are 0 for 2. IOW, they’re suffering from both the severe lack of common sense of the stereotypical leftwinger and the intolerance of a stereotypical rightwinger. Again, 0 for 2. The worst of both worlds.
Mark (411533) — 3/27/2010 @ 9:27 pmI think part of the
wingnut goyChicago thug caricature is seeing things in terms of totalist black or white “alignments.” I don’t think this is something that occurs only toJewsBlack nationalists. It’s just amusing to see it expressed bywingnut goyspseudo-intellectual libruls more delicately and in a way that betrays their innocent ignorance.FIFY
@ 8:27
Vermont Neighbor (87c922) — 3/27/2010 @ 9:32 pm‘I think part of the wingnut goy caricature is seeing things in terms of totalist black or white “alignments.”’
Yeah, well we could follow the nuanced liberal approach, but all that’s produced is: our involvement in a series of bloody wars in Europe and Asia (with hundreds of thousands of Americans killed), a quasi-empire overseas (that’s bleeding us dry), and an ever more totalitarian government at home (that’s also bleeding us dry).
So, I think I’ll go for that wingnut approach. It seems to work a whole lot better.
Dave Surls (b9d2b6) — 3/27/2010 @ 9:51 pm40“Unlike the Muslim World Israel has something America wants and truly needs: real intellectual property. ”
Sorry, I think America values oil more than interesting new plastic surgery techniques…
Comment by snips — 3/27/2010 @ 12:07 pm”
Even if your snarky and stupid comment were true it still would be more of an advancement than the Muslim world has contributed in the last 500 years. Naturally companies like Intel and Microsoft have invested billions in Israeli R & D labs because they are great plastic surgeons. And what has been the sum total of intellectual property achievements the Arabs have done with the trillions of oil dollars? Nothing except export Jihadi’s. Its pathetic to think that the entire GDP of the entire Arab world without oil and gas would barely equal Israel’s GDP. The Arabs need to sell oil. They can’t eat it, can’t drink it and don’t produce anything. They have to sell it to live. They are just a commodity exporter and if the US were to remove its self imposed restraints on domestic energy production the Arab importance such as it is to American would fall below the horizon of awareness and importance.
68-“It’s something I don’t understand about American Jews.”
They seem to not act according to the caricature that wingnut goys have developed of their culture. Must be something about them then.
Comment by imdw — 3/27/2010 @ 8:01 pm”
25% (and the most rapidly growing sector of Judaism) are Orthodox who are largely committed to Israel and are mostly conservative in thought. The others to whom you refer to are culturally Jewish but confessionaly liberal.
cubanbob (409ac2) — 3/27/2010 @ 9:57 pm#87 daleyrocks:
Isn’t this the same lying jackass that was trying to convince us a few months back that it lives in a black inner city neighborhood, or some such?
IOW, faux moral authority isn’t any more convincing than any other sophist rhetoric, imadouchewad.
EW1(SG) (edc268) — 3/27/2010 @ 10:10 pmI gotta say that, when imdw calls anyone “weird”—based on his own posting history—why, no iron(y) supplements will be needed, worldwide, for a year.
Eric Blair (21af67) — 3/27/2010 @ 10:12 pmOh, and daley? I thought it was great hearing you talk about your experiences on that radio show with Patterico. Now I have a voice to put with the posts!
Eric Blair (21af67) — 3/27/2010 @ 10:13 pmComment by Mark — 3/27/2010 @ 9:27 pm
Mark, Israel was founded in large part by communists who had an interesting epiphany: although in Europe before they emigrated they were Marxist, Socialists and Communists-who by definition are atheists they were shocked to discover that in the eyes of anti-Semites they were Jew Communists. Hence the migration to the largely barren waste land that was Israel before its creation. At least there they could plain old communists or socialists without the anti-Semitism. Fortunately that Marxist mindset has largely disposed of in Israel and the majority of the relatively few Communists there are anti-Israeli Israeli’s and Arabs.
If real anti-Semtism were to rear its head here in the US, a percentage of Jews would assimilate to escape, a relative few would join the anti-Semites (in the deluded belief that appeasement will save them) and the rest will simply rediscover their Judaism and drop their near religious affiliation with democrats and the left.
cubanbob (409ac2) — 3/27/2010 @ 10:15 pmEW1(SG) – Yeah, a mixed urban environment or some such trying to establish faux cred. I wasn’t buying then and I’m not buying now.
daleyrocks (718861) — 3/27/2010 @ 10:15 pm“Naturally companies like Intel and Microsoft have invested billions in Israeli R & D labs because they are great plastic surgeons. And what has been the sum total of intellectual property achievements the Arabs have done with the trillions of oil dollars? Nothing except export Jihadi’s. ”
Before they started investing in more reasonably priced Indians and Chinese.
These days, good brains are cheap, whereas oil will just keep getting more valuable.
Sorry, Israel.
snips (6a0094) — 3/27/2010 @ 10:26 pmHold on, daley. I’m sure imdw listens to rap. That makes him all gangsta.
And I’m sure he ate a bagel at some point last week. So he can talk Torah and call gentiles goys (goyim would be better, right?).
Absolute Trollish Authority.
Eric Blair (21af67) — 3/27/2010 @ 10:28 pmSnips hates it some Joooooooos.
JD (52faf8) — 3/27/2010 @ 10:33 pm#99 Eric Blair:
annoying bunkum, s’what that is.
EW1(SG) (edc268) — 3/27/2010 @ 10:37 pm#100 JD:
It does, don’t it. Is it starting to sound familiar?
EW1(SG) (edc268) — 3/27/2010 @ 10:41 pmThe free market is remarkably agnostic.
snips (6a0094) — 3/27/2010 @ 11:41 pm“whereas oil will just keep getting more valuable”
PEAK OIL snips!!!!11ty!!!!!!
daleyrocks (718861) — 3/27/2010 @ 11:50 pm“Yeah, well we could follow the nuanced liberal approach, but all that’s produced is: our involvement in a series of bloody wars in Europe and Asia (with hundreds of thousands of Americans killed), a quasi-empire overseas (that’s bleeding us dry), and an ever more totalitarian government at home (that’s also bleeding us dry).”
Sorry this doesn’t seem like a nuanced (it’s not quite that either, more ‘balanced’ or ‘fair’ or ’empathetic’) view.
“The others to whom you refer to are culturally Jewish but confessionaly liberal.”
I like your use of “confession.”
“Isn’t this the same lying jackass that was trying to convince us a few months back that it lives in a black inner city neighborhood, or some such?”
Someone asked me what kind of place I lived in. Almost as if to prove it didn’t matter, I had to give a clue. Next you’ll want to know how many synagogues within 5 miles of my house?
imdw (cf562d) — 3/28/2010 @ 5:56 amWell, at least imdw is only hung over this AM.
Listen, silly troll person: you have made up all kinds of stuff in the past, posted thoughtless snarks, and been rude enough to merit payment in kind.
You are a relatively thought free reflexive partisan Leftist. As soon as you start acting thoughtful, you will be treated with respect.
But that isn’t your goal here. It’s all troof to powder with you.
Eric Blair (14e43d) — 3/28/2010 @ 8:46 amWe actually are more interested in how many Neo – Nazi rallies you’ve attended over the past few decades.
Dmac (21311c) — 3/28/2010 @ 8:48 amWhat thread on Israel would be complete without the boilerplate accusations of anti-Semitism from the Right?
snips (6a0094) — 3/28/2010 @ 8:52 amAn amusingly vapid snark, snips, and completely ludicrous given the anti-semitic crowd that Obama has surrounded himself with.
Do pay attention.
SPQR (26be8b) — 3/28/2010 @ 9:07 amSure he did, SPQR.
Name one for us.
And be warned, if you say Rahm Emmanuel, even your fellow Right-wingers will giggle.
snips (6a0094) — 3/28/2010 @ 9:34 amDmac, do you really think good old snips is you know who? Anyway, he doesn’t hate Jews, remember. Some of his best friends are Jewish!
For some reason, Israel got promoted to “daddy status” and the Left sure hates their Daddy.
It’s kind of amusing to watch Leftists defend the actions of Arabs who support things that they, the Leftists, would shriek about if anyone else said them. As I have written before, the Left puts Western Civilization under a scanning tunneling electron microscope. Fair enough.
But then they put the actions of other nations under a set of Mr. Magoo glasses. And if pushed, they explain that the other nations were pushed into doing bad things by…guess who…Western Civilization.
All the while, drinking expensive lattes and listening to their iPods and claiming to be above it all.
Eric Blair (21af67) — 3/28/2010 @ 9:36 amUm…Jeremiah Wright?
Eric Blair (21af67) — 3/28/2010 @ 9:37 amJeremiah Wright, who has said some pretty awful things about Jews and Israel, and who is a supporter of Louis Farrakhan.
Some chump (c2555f) — 3/28/2010 @ 9:40 amA nice summary, maybe.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/01/barack_obama_and_israel.html
And, I’m sure you were equally forgiving of some of GWB’s supporters, right?
Or should I say “left”?
Eric Blair (21af67) — 3/28/2010 @ 9:40 amsnips, you really don’t have a clue, do you?
SPQR (26be8b) — 3/28/2010 @ 9:46 amName one for us.
Edward Said
daleyrocks (718861) — 3/28/2010 @ 9:50 amRashid Khalidi
Samantha Power
“An amusingly vapid snark, snips, and completely ludicrous given the anti-semitic crowd that Obama has surrounded himself with.”
Like an IDF veteran?
imdw (017d51) — 3/28/2010 @ 9:50 amAgain: imdw, you are such a tiresome troll. Do you need to start drinking again, like last night?
Eric Blair (21af67) — 3/28/2010 @ 9:51 amLet me give trolly here some advice on his own intellectual level, courtesy of “The Tick”:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZhJlGV2s_k
Eric Blair (21af67) — 3/28/2010 @ 9:54 amHey, at least daley produced some names for us. He accuses Edward Said of being an anti-Semite and being a close adviser to President Obama.
He is also dead.
Thanks for playing, Glenn Beck.
snips (6a0094) — 3/28/2010 @ 9:58 am“Again: imdw, you are such a tiresome troll. Do you need to start drinking again, like last night?”
4 cups of wine while reclining huh?
imdw (4fe3dc) — 3/28/2010 @ 10:00 amalthough in Europe before they emigrated they were Marxist, Socialists and Communists-who by definition are atheists they were shocked to discover that in the eyes of anti-Semites they were Jew Communists. Hence the migration to the largely barren waste land that was Israel before its creation. At least there they could plain old communists or socialists without the anti-Semitism. Fortunately that Marxist mindset has largely disposed of in Israel and the majority of the relatively few Communists there are anti-Israeli Israeli’s and Arabs
Cubanbob
I imagine the influx of Russian Jews to Israel tempered the society’s love of communism as well.
I know there have been serious books/writing on why the majority of American Jews are politically liberal, but can’t remember a name or author. i’m sure somebody here does.
MD in Philly (59a3ad) — 3/28/2010 @ 10:03 am[…] humiliation of Israel is a disgrace Patterico’s Pontifications, More Obama “Civility” and The Back Story: Obama and Israel Times Online, Binyamin Netanyahu humiliated after Barack Obama ‘dumped him for dinner’ […]
Israel’s PM Netanyahu Plays Down Pres. Obama’s White House Rudeness « Frugal Café Blog Zone (a66042) — 3/28/2010 @ 10:09 amThose big-nosed Jews and those big-nosed garlicky Eyetalians killed little black baby Jesus.
That’s from one of Jeremiah Wright’s videotaped sermons.
It’s pointless and foolish to attribute rational motives to Obama. He’s an empty suit, a talentless Chicago Machine hack, running on “I won”. But all the fools in the country are on his side. And ain’t that a majority in every country?
nk (db4a41) — 3/28/2010 @ 10:13 am4 cups of wine while reclining huh?
No, you prefer your libations to be taken in more effective manner – up your arse.
Dmac (21311c) — 3/28/2010 @ 10:15 amThanks for playing, Glenn Bec
Oh, look – I work here is done completely ignores Wright, which was provided on cue after his request. When caught with pants around his ankles, quickly deflect and obfuscate. Wash, Rinse, Repeat.
Dmac (21311c) — 3/28/2010 @ 10:17 amsnips, thanks for playing? Uh, I guess it is polite to thank others for a game when you get yer butt kicked. But you really should not play out of your league.
SPQR (26be8b) — 3/28/2010 @ 10:19 amI don’t think it’s accurate to say that Obama has “surrounded himself” with Wright. Not in the present tense. In present tense it seems he has actually distanced himself from Wright. And surrounded himself with the likes of people who started a tradition of a White House Seder.
“No, you prefer your libations to be taken in more effective manner – up your arse.”
Now I’m wondering if you even knew what I was talking about.
imdw (603c39) — 3/28/2010 @ 10:20 amSPQR,
You accused Obama of surrounding himself with anti-Semitic advisers…when asked to name one you failed.
One of your comrades embarrassingly named a dead guy.
Another named a person who has never been to the White House.
That’s may count as a victory to a Republican these days, but don’t shame yourself by claiming it’s a real victory.
snips (6a0094) — 3/28/2010 @ 10:38 amThose 20 years that he mentored and advised him? Nothing. Look over there! Rahm is a Jooooooooooooo!
JD (506f9c) — 3/28/2010 @ 10:47 amPlease don’t confuse your remaining brain cells with something so trivial as actual facts provided, I work here is done.
I don’t think it’s accurate to say that Obama has “surrounded himself” with Wright.
Right – but sitting in the same pew, Sunday after Sunday, for over 20 years – no, that doesn’t count anymore, at least since he “distanced himself” after being called out on it and having no choice in the matter at the end. And of course we’re talking about only the “present,” since the past bears no relation to the future.
Now I’m wondering if you even knew what I was talking about.
Since you do nothing but offer reflexive expectorations in every thread, who does?
Dmac (21311c) — 3/28/2010 @ 10:51 amJeez, snips, did you even read the article? Like the part under the subheading of “advisors”?
Just trollin’ around, I know. You don’t actually want to, well, read and stuff.
Eric Blair (21af67) — 3/28/2010 @ 11:03 amUm. You shouldn’t drink wine out of a sippie cup. And something tells me that, regardless of receptacle, you had many more than four. You strike me as more of a Big Gulp kind of guy.
Eric Blair (21af67) — 3/28/2010 @ 11:07 amadd in Van Jones to the list of anti-semitic advisors.
SPQR (26be8b) — 3/28/2010 @ 11:09 amApparently Congress (both sides of the aisle) is more than a bit concerned about the President’s actions toward Israel and see his behavior as harming the possibility of resuming peace talks. It has not gone unnoticed as a letter was drafted to the WH:
“The letter’s lead signatories were Eric Cantor (R-VA) and Steny Hoyer (D-MD). The letter had only circulated for three days last week before garnering 327 signatures, probably the most bipartisan effort seen on Capitol Hill in this session of Congress. It provides a measure of just how far out of the mainstream the Obama administration has gotten on relations with Israel. Moreover, they’re entirely correct. Thanks to what amounts to a reversal of 20 years of American policy on settlements in Jerusalem, Obama has given the Palestinians a reason to refuse to come to the table that Israel simply can’t address. Obama has made peace a lot less likely than it was fifteen months ago by throwing his tantrum in such a public manner. Weakening Israel won’t bring peace — it will bring more attacks on Israel as Palestinians begin to believe that the US won’t back its ally any longer.”
Dana (1e5ad4) — 3/28/2010 @ 11:20 am“Rahm is a Jooooooooooooo!”
He was in the IDF. That’s like a wingnut’s favorite jew!
“Since you do nothing but offer reflexive expectorations in every thread, who does?”
Nope. You don’t. All these goys calling out nazis and anti-semites and wondering why the jews dont’ act out the wingnut fantasy. Real funny.
Maybe DRJ can update y’all when she returns from reading a few Haggadahs.
imdw (603c39) — 3/28/2010 @ 11:28 am“He is also dead.”
snips – SHUT. UP.
What a moron. Thank you for restating the obvious.
daleyrocks (718861) — 3/28/2010 @ 11:29 am4 cups of wine while reclining huh?
Was it good for you?
daleyrocks (718861) — 3/28/2010 @ 11:32 am“Thank you for restating the obvious.”
If you knew he died years ago, why did you cite Edward Said as one of the “anti-Semitic” *eyeroll* advisers President Obama had surrounded himself with, Daley?
snips (6a0094) — 3/28/2010 @ 11:43 amHey, imdw? Ask your rabbi what the plural of “goy” is…and if it is a nice word to use with gentiles.
Eric Blair (21af67) — 3/28/2010 @ 11:52 amAnd snips, or whoever you are? Did you actually read the article? I didn’t mention Said. Only one person did. But I understand you are pretty embarrassed by your statements.
Eric Blair (21af67) — 3/28/2010 @ 11:53 amWell Rashid Khalili, is the closest parallel and the “Dog Trainer” still hasn’t released the tape of Obama with him. Said represents the Arab nationalist
ian cormac (349188) — 3/28/2010 @ 12:01 pm/Palestinian rejectionists that has little disagreement with the goals if not the tactics of
Islamists
“Hey, imdw? Ask your rabbi what the plural of “goy” is…and if it is a nice word to use with gentiles.”
Someone finally used a search engine.
imdw (22078e) — 3/28/2010 @ 12:05 pmAdd Dawn Johnsen to Barry’s bigots.
The focus of her work was pro-terrorist, but since O adopted Bush intelligence on terror I believe her career is derailed a bit.
Vermont Neighbor (0e568c) — 3/28/2010 @ 12:10 pmWell, imdw, the fact that you would write that suggests that projection continues to be your middle name. You didn’t know, did you?
It doesn’t matter what you write. You know the truth about yourself, and so do we.
Poseur.
Eric Blair (21af67) — 3/28/2010 @ 12:19 pmNext I prescribe a viewing of “the Hebrew Hammer.”
imdw (f6a9f8) — 3/28/2010 @ 12:21 pmKeep it up. You really are a nasty little thing, aren’t you? You got caught (again) playing juvenile games, and you just lash out.
Here is a hint: go away for a while. When you come back, try to act in an adult fashion.
Eric Blair (21af67) — 3/28/2010 @ 12:23 pmAh, how can one forgot Johnsen, he compared attorneys like Yoo and Bybee to mob consiglieri, notably the Corleone’s Tom Hagen, and considers pregnancy to be some sort of unnatural act. Mind
ian cormac (349188) — 3/28/2010 @ 12:25 pmyou, she hold no such negative impression of actual
terrorists
“If you knew he died years ago”
snips – For his influence on him you collossal moron. Why not go back to TPM or Kos where people are as dumb as you.
daleyrocks (718861) — 3/28/2010 @ 12:35 pmNicely done, daley, but that wasn’t why snips was posting. He is just trollin’ around. Of course background influences are important, which is why snips’ comments are ironic. Given his own clear influences.
Eric Blair (21af67) — 3/28/2010 @ 12:40 pm“Of course background influences are important”
Except, of course, when you’re trying to back up the laughable claim that President Obama has surrounded himself with anti-Semitic advisers.
Then you just look silly.
You should stick to mindless ad hominem attacks like Eric does, daley.
snips (6a0094) — 3/28/2010 @ 12:44 pm“Except, of course, when you’re trying to back up the laughable claim that President Obama has surrounded himself with anti-Semitic advisers.”
snips – Except when you are trying to dodge his background of surrounding himself with Palestinian apologists during his academic career and afterwards as you are. Soi Pissant.
daleyrocks (718861) — 3/28/2010 @ 12:49 pmconsiders pregnancy to be some sort of unnatural act.
Dawn Johnsen’s argument was that pregnancy was a form of slavery and in violation of the 13th Amendment.
Vermont Neighbor (0e568c) — 3/28/2010 @ 1:07 pmDamn those slavemaster gametes.
SPQR (26be8b) — 3/28/2010 @ 1:10 pmGosh, snips. Did you read the article?
Didn’t think so.
Kind of tough to defend your position, given the kinds of people, historically, that BHO has associated with. And the funny party? When GWB was President, I am certain that you were all beside yourself about the crazies you felt he had surrounding him.
Funny how different things are when it is your guy, huh?
I notice that you are getting pretty testy. Take a break, educate yourself, and see how you do.
Eric Blair (0b61b2) — 3/28/2010 @ 1:13 pmYou might even have some cups of wine while reclining on a pillow!
Eric Blair (0b61b2) — 3/28/2010 @ 1:14 pmThere’s also the tape the LA Times wouldn’t release which shows Barry at a big Palestinian event. Birthday party or fundraiser.
Vermont Neighbor (0e568c) — 3/28/2010 @ 1:29 pmSomeone finally used a search engine.
Hey Cupcake, please define the following terms, I learned them well during two years of Hebrew at NIU, many years ago (my instructor was from Spertus College in Chicago):
Big Macher
Schnoor
Vershnay
Nishkit
Dmac (21311c) — 3/28/2010 @ 1:30 pmIf you don’t all of these, then you’ve just been caught with your pants down (yet again) regarding your alleged ardent Jewishness.
“You might even have some cups of wine while reclining on a pillow!”
4.
“If you don’t all of these, then you’ve just been caught with your pants down (yet again) regarding your alleged ardent Jewishness.”
So I’ve gone from being a nazi anti-semite to being an “alleged Jew.” My the wingnut mind is fickle.
imdw (305fa8) — 3/28/2010 @ 1:33 pmI wonder if imdw or snips would care to comment upon Farrakhan – who represents the religion that sold (and still sells) Africans into slavery over the centuries ? The religion that actively believes that kaffirs (kufr) are not worthy of humane treatment, cannot testify, can be killed without penalty whereas dhimmi are at least half-price ?
Alasdair (205079) — 3/28/2010 @ 1:50 pmI really don’t pay much attention to Farrakhan. Wingers seem obsessed, so that’s an indication I should try to avoid him. Though stuff like this is just run of the mill wingnuttia:
“The religion that actively believes that kaffirs (kufr) are not worthy of humane treatment, cannot testify, can be killed without penalty whereas dhimmi are at least half-price ?”
imdw (969a49) — 3/28/2010 @ 1:56 pmMy the wingnut mind is fickle.
Actually, you could be a prime example of the self – loathing Jew, which is seen in abundance in the environs of NYC and Hollwood.
Please answer my previous question.
Dmac (21311c) — 3/28/2010 @ 1:59 pmPerhaps, but Jeremiah Wright paid a great deal of attention to him. And Farrakhan is a dyed-in-the-wool anti-Semite.
Maybe you should try to explain why sitting in Wright’s church for 20 years, listening to Wright’s sermon, getting advice from Wright, etc, are not an indication of the anti-Semitic influences on Obama.
Some chump (c2555f) — 3/28/2010 @ 2:05 pm“Actually, you could be a prime example of the self – loathing Jew, which is seen in abundance in the environs of NYC and Hollwood. ”
Oh. Now we move on to the anti-semitic stereotyping…
imdw (05d41e) — 3/28/2010 @ 2:07 pmShould we take away from #161 that imdw feels some reflexive lefty need to defend the Nation of Islam from unfair criticism?
Icy Texan (f63f9c) — 3/28/2010 @ 2:08 pmJust consider imdw’s long history of posts. He is just trollin’ around, as is snips.
Some of their best friends are Jews, of course. And they are down with the hood.
Please. Just horsing around, they are.
Eric Blair (0b61b2) — 3/28/2010 @ 2:26 pmAnd it is amusing to hear imdw use the term “stereotyping.” Is that when both he and snips tag team?
Eric Blair (0b61b2) — 3/28/2010 @ 2:27 pm“I notice that you are getting pretty testy.”
Aaaah, using the debating techniques you learned in kindergarten?
Pointing out all you do is engage in ad hominem attacks isn’t testy, Eric, it’s just a fact.
snips (6a0094) — 3/28/2010 @ 2:34 pmWhy do you hate the Jooooooooooos, snips?
JD (df3a77) — 3/28/2010 @ 2:51 pm“Oh. Now we move on to the anti-semitic stereotyping…”
and Silly Sunday continuezzzzzzzz…
GeneralMalaise (2bc526) — 3/28/2010 @ 2:51 pmNow we move on to the anti-semitic stereotyping…
Strike as non – responsive, your honor. Please answer my previous question – what are the definitions of the following words?
Big Macher
Schnoor
Vershnay
Nishkit
What do they mean, Hebrew Scholar? Let’s have it.
Dmac (21311c) — 3/28/2010 @ 2:53 pm“Why do you hate the Jooooooooooos, snips?”
You know I don’t, JD.
My political views are in perfect alignment with 90% of Jewish Americans.
snips (6a0094) — 3/28/2010 @ 3:03 pmThere is nothing to suggest that you don’t hate Israel.
JD (df3a77) — 3/28/2010 @ 3:05 pmFrom its very first comment, under its new name, this one was as predictable as the Cubs not winning the Series, yet again.
JD (df3a77) — 3/28/2010 @ 3:09 pm“What do they mean, Hebrew Scholar? Let’s have it.”
Hebrew Scholar? Where did you get that idea?
“There is nothing to suggest that you don’t hate Israel.”
Maybe he’s a fan of J street. Dmac’s got a term for those.
imdw (803b85) — 3/28/2010 @ 3:13 pm“There is nothing to suggest that you don’t hate Israel.”
That’s certainly an odd thing for you to say, JD.
Being an American, I love America.
snips (6a0094) — 3/28/2010 @ 3:18 pmNothing odd about it, snips. It follows quite easily from your distortions, lies, prevarications, and obfuscation all of which happen to favor one side, a decidedly anti-Israeli side.
JD (df3a77) — 3/28/2010 @ 3:20 pmAs I say: they are stereo-typical!
Eric Blair (0b61b2) — 3/28/2010 @ 3:28 pm“My political views are in perfect alignment with 90% of Jewish Americans.”
snips – I don’t believe 90% of Jewish Americans believe Hezbollah is a benevolent social organization, but if you have a recent poll I’d be willing to take a look at it.
daleyrocks (718861) — 3/28/2010 @ 3:29 pm“a decidedly anti-Israeli side.”
As I said, I’m an American. I love America above all other countries.
Do you and your comrades really imagine you’re helping Israel somehow with your mindless blanket accusations of anti-Semitism?
snips (6a0094) — 3/28/2010 @ 3:29 pmI’ll tell you what, snips. Let’s compare post, historically. But you have to use the name you used to post under.
Eric Blair (0b61b2) — 3/28/2010 @ 3:29 pmMaybe he’s a fan of J street. Dmac’s got a term for those.
Awww, douchey’s been caught out in another fraudulent lie. Let’s run down what he’s been lying about so far, shall we?
– claims he’s living in a dangerous albeit multi – cultural urban environment, surrounded by angry ganstas and other scary urban wildlife. Of course he also happens to live near a college campus, and we know all too well the perils awaiting incoming freshman to his circle of danger.
– claims he knows a kind of Jewish language (what kind we have no idea) in order to establish moral superiority for his hilarious comments concerning “Goys.”
Can’t wait to hear what else he’s going to pose as – rapidly approaching dggcrapp – levels of fantasy.
Dmac (21311c) — 3/28/2010 @ 3:36 pm“Do you and your comrades really imagine you’re helping Israel somehow with your mindless blanket accusations of anti-Semitism?”
spins – Following by two unsupported claims about yourself, what does the above have to do with the post? Also, the accusations are not mindless, read the article linked above.
daleyrocks (718861) — 3/28/2010 @ 4:08 pmI meant the accusations about Obama’s advisors.
daleyrocks (718861) — 3/28/2010 @ 4:09 pm[…] humiliation of Israel is a disgrace Patterico’s Pontifications, More Obama “Civility” and The Back Story: Obama and Israel Times Online, Binyamin Netanyahu humiliated after Barack Obama ‘dumped him for dinner’ […]
10,000 Yellow Roses of Friendship… and Israel’s PM Netanyahu’s Reluctance to Accept Them from American Christians for Fear of Angering Obama « Frugal Café Blog Zone (a66042) — 4/2/2010 @ 5:23 pm[…] humiliation of Israel is a disgrace Patterico’s Pontifications, More Obama “Civility” and The Back Story: Obama and Israel Times Online, Binyamin Netanyahu humiliated after Barack Obama ‘dumped him for dinner’ […]
10,000 Yellow Roses of Friendship… and Israel’s PM Netanyahu’s Reluctance to Accept Them from American Christians for Fear of Angering Obama « Frugal Café Blog Zone (a66042) — 4/2/2010 @ 5:23 pm[…] Patterico’s Pontifications: Obama’s New Nuclear Policy and More Obama “Civility” and The Back Story: Obama and Israel Times Online, Binyamin Netanyahu humiliated after Barack Obama ‘dumped him for dinner’ […]
Disturbing Pattern Emerging Against Israel & Jews from Pres. Obama — Visas Now Denied to Israeli Nuclear Scientists « Frugal Café Blog Zone (a66042) — 4/8/2010 @ 7:20 pm