Governator: Hey, I Have a Great Idea! Let’s Ship Our Illegal State Prisoners to Mexico!
Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger floated a different approach to trimming down California’s bloated prison budget on Monday: pay Mexico to build new prisons and ship off California’s incarcerated illegal immigrants south of the border.
The Republican governor has pushed to house California inmates out-of-state before — but never in a different country.
“We can do so much better in the prison system alone if we can go and take inmates, for instance the 20,000 inmates that are illegal immigrants that are here, and get them to Mexico,” Schwarzenegger said during a question-and answer session at the Sacramento Press Club. “Think about it.”
OK, I will . . .
There, I’m done thinking.
Stupid idea.
P.S. I meant to publish this Monday but somehow never got around to pressing the “Publish” button. But several of you have e-mailed me about it in the meantime, so I sense that interest is high.
I read about this, and thought, initially, that I was either reading an Onion article or hallucinating.
Having concluded that neither is the case, I’m just flabbergasted.
Is it stupid of me to ask whose laws these people we’d be shipping off to Mexico would be incarcerated? That was just my initial (assuming I’ve not fallen through to an alternate dimension, anyway) question.
Then I just concluded that the governor was off his meds.
Dianna (f12db5) — 1/28/2010 @ 8:10 pmYeah, this idea is in the same class as ….
Releasing 25,000 criminals many of whom have only served 5% – 10% of their sentences. I am sure they have all learned their lessons and will never, ever, ever sin again. R-i-g-h-t!!!
Jay Curtis (8f6541) — 1/28/2010 @ 8:22 pmThere are some pretty serious problems with it, though.
(A) why would we assume Mexican prisons would have adequate security?
(B) why would we assume Mexican prisons would comply with US Constitutional requirements on prison conditions?
(C) why would we assume that Mexican prisons wouldn’t be arranged in such a fashion as to help people with friends in the Mexican drug gangs?
etc.
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 1/28/2010 @ 8:31 pmBe careful, aphrael: all of those points could quickly get you accused of being racist!
Eric Blair (20b3a8) — 1/28/2010 @ 8:33 pmwow, what a can of worms.
Cali has a big problem with its prison system, and I don’t fault the guy for thinking outside the box. but thinking outside the bun? OK, that was a stupid joke.
A state that can’t reduce its number of employees without opening the gates of hell probably can’t use chain gangs to trim the budget. But the weather is pretty temperate in much of the state, so perhaps they could have secure facilities using tents for shelters.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 1/28/2010 @ 8:38 pmIt is no more stupid than the drivel we were forced to listen to last night in the SOTU.
JD (c15e93) — 1/28/2010 @ 8:44 pmI’ve been damned with faint praise.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 1/28/2010 @ 8:50 pmI was referring to Arnold’s idea, not yours, Dustin.
JD (c15e93) — 1/28/2010 @ 8:53 pmship them back to Mexico? sure….
pay for Mexico to house them? hell no. they will let them out and keep the $$.
just use the money saved to put CA ARNG troops on the border with live ammo and orders to prevent infiltration, with ROE that allow the use of lethal force, just like Mexico does on it’s southern border.
redc1c4 (fb8750) — 1/28/2010 @ 8:54 pmoops. I kinda exposed some arrogance there, I guess.
You have a point. This is a silly idea, but compared with borrowing our way out of troubles we borrowed our way into, it’s actually not that crazy.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 1/28/2010 @ 8:57 pmWe just need to spend more money to avoid bankruptcy.
JD (c15e93) — 1/28/2010 @ 8:59 pmI assume it would never happen, but look at it a different way:
From what I’ve heard from a distance, no sane person would prefer a Mexican jail to one in the US. If criminals think it is more lucrative and less risk to commit crime in the US than in Mexico, where would they go to set up shop?
For once the US might get a positive review on human rights when people would rather be in a Calif. prison.
A more expensive but more likely venture lies miles east in Illinois, where there is an underutilized Max Security prison.
MD in Philly (d4668b) — 1/28/2010 @ 9:06 pmGiven reports like this, we should only send prisoners to Mexico if we don’t care whether they serve their time.
DRJ (84a0c3) — 1/28/2010 @ 9:21 pmThat’s amazing, DRJ. Just amazing. this is our next door neighbor, and they are a near anarchy.
Drug dealers run the damn place. If we could just fix Mexico, make it a decent and happy neighbor, a heck of a lot of problems would go away.
They are in a great part of the world geographically, next to a very wealthy neighbor that likes to buy stuff. Why can’t they make things work?
Dustin (b54cdc) — 1/28/2010 @ 9:25 pmArnold says the Feds compel him to release 40,000 inmates; and he also says that there are 20,000 inmates that are illegal aliens (I think that number is low).
AD - RtR/OS! (bb36fd) — 1/28/2010 @ 9:28 pmSo, just take those 20,000 and ship them to the border and push them across at the point of a bayonet.
Result: Half of his Fed problem is solved.
And, if the Mexican Government bitches about it, I’m sure the CHP could set up some temporary truck inspection sites immediately north of each and every point-of-entry from Mexico to CA (there’s only about a half-dozen) and really put a twist in their knickers.
Why can’t they make things work?
Well, for one thing many of the people of Mexico are politically and socially similar to a high percentage of people in urban America. IOW, they’re idiotically liberal, no matter what. Therefore, a sloppy, corrupt type of atmosphere tends to flourish.
Case in point: the Supreme Court of Mexico ruled several years ago that life in prison without parole — not the death penalty, mind you — was unconstitutional.
As for the current president of Mexico—a Latino version of a very squishy Republican? He almost lost the election to an avowed leftist/socialist, the former mayor of Mexico City. And the reason why the ultra-liberal lost? He split the votes with another candidate, also of the left but from a third party.
When common sense is in short supply and you instead get a lot of overly emotional, phony-ass, bratty-type thinkers dominating a society (Hi, Mr & Mrs Liberal!), don’t expect normalcy, stability and ethics to prevail.
A lot of the people of Mexico need to look in the mirror when assessing why their nation is such a perennial pit.
Mark (411533) — 1/28/2010 @ 10:20 pmStupid idea.
It’s stupid if the felons from here end up being treated with kid gloves down there, which is likely to occur since the judiciary and prison system in Mexico — and the society in general — is so thoroughly unreliable, so full of dysfunction. But if by some miracle of miracles, the border between the US and Mexico could be made impenetrable immediately before, during and forever after each group of illegal-immigrant felons from the US was forced into Mexico, I’d say go for it.
Mark (411533) — 1/28/2010 @ 10:31 pmWhoa! Be careful… you don’t want to burst a vessel. Better stick to the Karl Rove and Rush Limbaugh direction sheet. We’d hate to see the party disrupted by independent thinking.
Intelliology (00d844) — 1/29/2010 @ 2:55 amOh, will you look at that! So cute. Intel-NOT-inside has learned a new tactic. Can you say “ad hominem attack,” kiddies? Instead of saying a single word about the governator’s off-the-cuff proposal, he instead decides to attack our host for the way in which the post was written. Basically the faux intellectual’s version of responding to a pertinent comment by saying “oh yeah? well, you suck!”
Icy Texan (2dde99) — 1/29/2010 @ 3:21 amFinally someone admitted it. The PPI claims that there is no such thing as a Mexican in a California prison, because they are such well behaved law abiding people, as contrasted with we, the unruly mob of scofflaw natives.
A report passed on verbatum as realnews in the local fishwrap.
papertiger (894e4f) — 1/29/2010 @ 4:06 amPerhaps if, instead of sending them by land, you put them on an old cruise ship and sent them by sea . . . and then sank the boat.
Oh, that’s way wrong of me; I hereby denounce myself!
The denounced Dana (3e4784) — 1/29/2010 @ 4:10 amDana, I denounce you.
I suggest a deportation point. A hundred square foot enclosure on the border, with exit only to Mexico. The illegals are taken there with whatever they can carry, and are then free to do what thet want — cross over to Mexico or stay and die of thirst one on top of the other.
nk (db4a41) — 1/29/2010 @ 4:20 am#14 Dustin:
It is, very simply, a cultural issue, illustrated by a single document.
They do not have the same respect for human rights that we grow up with, and most specifically the right to own property without having it taken from you by force. And that’s why most Third World shitholes are Third World shitholes.
The document that illustrates the difference is our Constitution.
[note: released from moderation. –Stashiu]
EW1(SG) (edc268) — 1/29/2010 @ 5:31 amWell hey, I thought it worth consideration and investigation re: its practicality and cost relative to the alternatives.
In the comments above I’m not sure whether it is a bad idea because they’ll be coddled/released or because they’ll be mistreated. It seems to me if you are contracting out your incarceration, both situations are part of the performance of the contract, and if the contractor does either it “don’t get paid”.
CA costs per prisoner are well over $45,000/year not including education, medical, and counseling. If you were a prison governor in Baja would it improve your prison to take an additional two dozen people and increase your budget by a million dollars a year?
DOuglas2 (62fec6) — 1/29/2010 @ 8:32 amI’ve suggested this approach to various other bloggers talking about this, but maybe Patterico could provide some legal background on why my idea is not viable.
If we have 20000 illegals costing the State of California $1 Billion a year to incarcerate them, why doesn’t Arnold pardon the lot of them, deport them, and then spend half of that ($500 Million) enforcing immigration laws? That leaves another $500 Million to do other things with.
You can build a damn fine fence for $500 Million, not to mention hire enough cops to do something revolutionalry, like ENFORCE THE DAMN LAW.
Bugz (6ccad1) — 1/29/2010 @ 8:37 amNo pardons. Commutation, OK. And if you make ’em build the fence – a chainlink gang? – before they go, the P & L improves dramatically.
Matador (176445) — 1/29/2010 @ 8:59 amThere are many problems both with and against this plan.
Stupid California laws/Supreme Court decisions/correctional officer’s union/illegal immigration plus sanctuary policies/and so forth have mandated vast prison costs easily double that of other states.
California is being forced to release some large amount of the least disruptive inmates (still plenty disruptive, but the least disruptive they got) because of prison overcrowding. Because of their costs and their laws, they can’t build more prisons nor can they ship prisoners out of state.
Untangling it is politically impossible without a Gordian Knot type solution and no one has the sword needed. Everyone knows what’s wrong and what to do. We can all come up with solutions that could work, but could never be implemented.
luagha (5cbe06) — 1/29/2010 @ 9:09 am[…] * Paterrico is pontificating on a California matter today: Governator: Hey, I Have a Great Idea! Let’s Ship Our Illegal State Prisoners to Mexico! […]
“And So We Drift.. with only hope and change aboard.”: Obama meets STAR TREK « Temple of Mut (4797e5) — 1/29/2010 @ 9:20 amI’m starting to think that we should either legalize drugs, or give the death penalty to people who deal drugs. Either way, the policy becomes more effective and less expensive. Of course, the Supreme Court would rule the death penalty unconstitutional for this type of offense, but I’m putting that judicial interference aside.
The same goes for illegal immigration. Either we should get serious about it, and apply very severe and effective penalties and countermeasures, or else we should allow anyone into the country who wants to come in.
Mushy enforcement of the law invites disobedience and promotes disrespect, IMHO. It’s also very expensive.
I would have no problem with Governor Schwarzenneger’s proposal if we could prevent the inmates from returning to the U.S. after Mexico releases them. Unfortunately, our border control system is too inneffectual, too mushy, and too lax to prevent the released inmates from returning here.
Andrew (1c01a4) — 1/29/2010 @ 9:43 amWhy Mexico? Why not Russia? I bet the Kolyma gold fields have gold that could be worked out of them still. Just arrange with the Russians to keep them there and working, and the Russians get to keep 2/3 of the gold they dig, and the problem’s solved! If some of them escape…so what? This is Siberia we’re talking about! They won’t get far!
Technomad (677f63) — 1/29/2010 @ 12:50 pmIf it is labor costs that are making prisons expensive, then just turn over control of prisons to the National Guard. That is what I would do.
Michael Ejercito (526413) — 1/29/2010 @ 12:55 pmI suspect the true sword for the knot that is California is bankruptcy. That is pretty much the only means by which the state could get out from under the crushing mandated benefit plans the public employee unions have negotiated for themselves in California.
Note – right now California is broke and they are paying just ~3% on the debt they owe. What happens when that doubles (or more) when the inflation caused by Obamanomics finally sets-in, and government securities become less than desirable to China etc?
JSinAZ (ae2d5e) — 1/29/2010 @ 2:53 pmthe crushing mandated benefit plans the public employee unions have
negotiatedbought the votes forthemselvesin California.Comment by JSinAZ — 1/29/2010 @ 2:53 pm
There, fixed that for you.
Matador (176445) — 1/29/2010 @ 3:12 pmJeeze, Matador – don’t know about making all the subtext plain as day; cutting to the chase spoils all the fun of lining up the crosshairs, etc.
JSinAZ (ae2d5e) — 1/29/2010 @ 3:38 pm