Patterico's Pontifications


NY 23 Election Results (Updated x4)

Filed under: Politics — DRJ @ 7:02 pm

[Guest post by DRJ]

With 2% of the votes counted, CNN reports Hoffman leads Owens in the 23rd Congressional District race, but the tally shows Owens in front. The Times-Union will also have election results here.

Meanwhile, Press Secretary Robert Gibbs admitted the White House is interested in the results of this election — not because a conservative may win, but because they believe it’s bad news for Republicans:

“But Gibbs was willing to acknowledge that the White House has some interest in the special election for New York’s 23rd Congressional District seat.

“I do think there are interesting tidbits that we see coming out of New York 23,” he said.

Gibbs’ remarks were meant more as a warning to the Republican Party than Democrats, however.

In that race, Republican Party candidate Dede Scozzafava was effectively forced out of the race by the surging candidacy of third-party conservative Doug Hoffman — whose campaign was buoyed by endorsements from former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, other prominent conservatives and grassroots activists. Gibbs picked up on the narrative Tuesday that this scenario could repeat itself in other districts in 2010, spelling trouble for other moderate Republicans.

“I think there are a host of primaries that will affect 2010 next year that pit moderate Republican candidates and conservative Republican candidates,” Gibbs said. “I think many in the Republican Party hung out a sign … that moderates need not apply.

“I do think that has ramifications for next year,” he added.”

However, Gibbs declined to address reports that White House Political Director Patrick Gaspard intervened to convince Scozzafava to endorse the Democrat, Owens.


UPDATE: Newzjunky’s unofficial results show Owens with a significant lead.

UPDATE 2: Watertown NY Mayor, a Hoffman supporter, says Hoffman lost and “It’s over.”

UPDATE 3: The Observer agrees it’s over for Hoffman but reports the final tally won’t be available for awhile:

“In the end, the weight of Democratic get-out-the-vote efforts was enough. No official concession is expected; with over 10,000 paper ballots locked up under court order, the election will not be officially called for quite some time.”

UPDATE 4: Apart from the fact there are still a lot of uncounted ballots, R S McCain says another reason this race may not be over is the uncounted ballots include military ballots. (NY 23 includes Fort Drum.)

However, NBC and Fox News have projected Owens the winner and McCain updates Hoffman is expected to concede.

182 Responses to “NY 23 Election Results (Updated x4)”

  1. The spin will be the “civil war” meme. I hope they believe it and think they are safe.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  2. So, Gibbs was lying when he said they were not watching the results. Guaranteed that this race is the one that gets all of the attention, should the numbers stay where they are.

    JD (6dce29)

  3. Maybe I’m missing the nuance, but CNN claims (at 10:03 EST) that Hoffman is winning yet shows a chart with him down nearly 2,000 votes and losing 52/43%. Was I sick the day they taught electoral math?

    Greg (55261f)

  4. I either heard or read that a voting machine(s) has/have been impounded in this race?

    JD (6dce29)

  5. Mike, I surely hope you’re right, but I’m guessing that’s not how it’s going to work.

    Many office’s chiefs of staffs, election pros, and smarter candidates are all famously pessimistic, even in good days, I guess as a survival mechanism. All of the good ones can remember a mere few years ago when they were in the minority. They know it’s a big deal that they got power back, and that it could be fleeting.

    They will say ‘civil war’ ‘racism’, etc to save face in public, but the dems in tough races know damn well that this hope and change crap is going to get them out of office. They will want to be the voice of reason, against huge spending and job destruction.

    If they have brains, Pelosi and Reid will no longer be their leaders. I honestly think that’s what went wrong for Obama… he just doesn’t have the leadership skill to manage them… so he’s been run over by those two idiots. Tom Delay and Bill Frist did not have that kind of power against W’s goals.

    Anyway, I hope they ignore the warning signs, but even Obama knows they have badly screwed up.

    Dustin (bb61e3)

  6. Gibbs is setting new lows for a post that has never been known for integrity.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  7. That has always confuzzled me, Dustin. I do not understand why the Dems continue to put up with the horrible “leadership” of Pelosi and Reid.

    JD (6dce29)

  8. Gibbs makes McClelland look good, no small feat.

    JD (6dce29)

  9. Greg, they extrapolate based on how red the district is.

    If Hoffman is only losing by 5 points when the districts left to report will give him 10…

    Also, the exit polling informs their general estimates. It’s really hard to get this stuff right. They are bombarding each county with phone calls to see if the votes are in, exactly how many, and see how that jives with exit polls. This kind of voodoo is how Florida became a disaster in 2000.

    What would be nice is if there wasn’t a mad rush to get results out to news junkies. count them nice and slowly, and get the results out at an established time. Go ahead and count all the absentee votes. See exactly what’s what. No need for expensive and lousy machines if you are concerned with accuracy instead of speed. My opinion.

    Dustin (bb61e3)

  10. I finally turned off MSNBC. They were in a Palin frenzy most of the evening, it seemed, coupled with a lot of “nothing to see here” and “local election local issues” stuff. Except when talking about NY, at which point in time it became an indictment of Bush, RethugliKKKans, Iraq, Palin, and everyone to the right of Mao.

    JD (6dce29)

  11. Accuracy is something the MSM cares very little about, Dustin.

    JD (6dce29)

  12. I really like the whole “big tent,” “moderate” meme that has infected the left all of the sudden.

    I really like the left lecturing the right on what the right needs to do to be successful in the future. The whole premise was so silly it was dismissed outright by everyone except the op-ed staff of the NYT, CNN, MSNBC and the usual useful idiots of the left. They are silly people, doing silly things in a silly manner.

    I know that they would like to be recognized for a powerful masterstroke of political analysis. They certainly got their Greek chorus going along with it.

    Most thinking people know exactly what it was: A talking point to motivate their mouth-breathing base.

    And it also sums up what they really think of the nation at large.

    Owens may win. Good for him if he does.

    It was worth it to see the entire left get so apoplectic about a single House race.

    Ag80 (3d1543)

  13. Ag – Turn on MSNBC. It is a riot/train-wreck.

    JD (6dce29)

  14. I’ve updated the post with a link to Newzjunky that is also posting NY 23 election returns.

    DRJ (dff2ca)

  15. White House Political Director Patrick Gaspard

    Noted SEIU/ACORN loyalist ….

    JD (6dce29)

  16. JD:

    I’m not going to turn on MSNBC just yet, but I can predict what they are or will be saying:

    The Owens lead/win/loss firmly establishes that the GOP is in tatters and the conservative civil war will only assure that no Republican/conservative will ever be elected again since they have no one who will stand up and do exactly what we say.

    I’ll go switch over now to see if I’m right.

    Ag80 (3d1543)

  17. Well, MSNBC has some Olbermann blather about baseball, but looking at Fox I see with 68 percent of the vote in, Owens has a good lead.

    So, let me be the first to call the race, congratulate the Democrats and say that this is a resounding win for Obama and indicates that the nation is firmly behind single-payer, government-controlled insurance, cap-and-trade and cut-and-run from Afghanistan.

    My hats off to you for a well-run, tightly controlled campaign. I hope all your dreams come true, because you really stuck it to the right.

    And I say that because the 23rd House District of New York really, really represents the rest of America and it’s a great opportunity to stick it to Palin — again.

    C’mon, let’s hear the chant: “We beat Palin! We beat Palin!”

    Kos is probably wetting his chair.

    Ag80 (3d1543)

  18. I’ve updated the post with a link to the Watertown Mayor, a Hoffman supporter, acknowledging Hoffman’s loss.

    DRJ (dff2ca)

  19. AG, lol. That’s what the news will cover. It’s going to be hilarious watching Olbermann bash Palin over NY 23 while ignoring New Jersey.

    Hoffman’s done amazingly well, given his circumstance. He’s a third party candidate that was in single digits only a moment ago.

    I don’t think the big conservative counties are all reporting… there’s a lot of hope yet for Hoffman, and I think he’s going to win, despite CNN and FNC’s correct observation that it’s not looking good.

    Dustin (bb61e3)

  20. It amazed me how much attention this NY-23 race got. The chances that Mr. Owens was not going to win was always close to zero, he is pretty close to being what the previous tenant is politically.

    Does Mrs Palin really have so many people afraid of her that her simple post about Mr Hoffman drove people nuts? The vast majority of the people in the counties in NY-23 could not give a twit what she says about anything, much less their race.

    seaPea (db0fa9)

  21. Man, it’s hard not to resent MSNBC’s sponsors. They aren’t showing that baseball crap still, but that was an awfully ugly thing to show on election night. OK, MSNBC… it’s a bad night for the democrats, so let’s not even cover news for a while!

    These companies, office depot and angie’s list, don’t ever show on Beck, because that’s divisive. Plastering over the actual news, though, that’s not divisive at all!

    Dustin (bb61e3)

  22. Newzjunky says the race is still too close to call. With 71% of the vote in, Owens has 49% and Hoffman 45%.

    DRJ (dff2ca)

  23. So, Gibbs was lying when he said. . .

    JD, by definition whatever Gibbs says is a lie.

    I can’t wait until Scozzafava gets her little consolation prize from the White House, probably some undersecretary job, preferably one that doesn’t require Senate confirmation. Will any of the White House reporters be curious enough to ask Gibbs if it was payback for her endorsement of Owens?

    JVW (d32e06)

  24. Brent Hume just called it for fox unofficially said there was no way hoffman could win….

    Everyone looked at him stunned but he didnt back off

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  25. The Observer agrees, Eric, as noted in my Update 3.

    DRJ (dff2ca)

  26. With over 4800 absentee ballots to be counted, unless someone wins by a clear and resounding majority, expect the race to be on hol until 11/16/2009 when the absentee ballots are due in. Then, expect recount after recount. We’ll be lucky to know who the winner is at Christmas (excuse me, “Winter Holiday” for the liberals).

    Bob (5f172e)

  27. Bob, Hoffman and his staff are probably thinking about Hoffman’s run in 2010, so he will concede VERY nicely if it comes to that.

    Absentee republicans are going to be split, since a lot of them thought Scozza had accepted the nomination. What an asshole she is to steal their precious votes! Anyway, I think Hoffman loses unless he’s ahead by thousands before absentee votes are considered. This is a reliable Republican district since the industrial revolution (has always been republican since then), but the democrats were given a gift by Scozzafava. The republicans tried to fix it, but they had a terrific night anyway.

    Dustin (bb61e3)

  28. I wonder if Paramedics are srriving at the Beck house about now?


    Is this the “jump sharkie” moment for Beck?

    Is he going to lamely try to spin it like he did when he misspelled a word on a display?

    Is anyone going to care?

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  29. Eric, your link makes a lot of sense. Not sure what you’re going on about Beck for… the efforts to promote Hoffman were successful… they boosted a third party candidate, polling at 5%, to a very close result, despite the GOP nominee endorsing the democrat. What does Beck have to be sorry for?

    Looking at how this race was playing out a few days ago, and Scozzafava was shockingly competitive against Owens. She was a dreadful candidate. Many gaffes, absolutely no good moments.

    Owens didn’t win.. the Republicans lost. There’s a difference. They lost because they failed to nominate a Republican, not because of Palin or Beck’s successful promotion of Hoffman.

    Dustin (bb61e3)

  30. Dustin

    they could, but with the enormous efforts of the Palin, Beck, Hannity, Rush, Thompson, Huckabee, and just about everyone else – could not beat a foaming at the mouth liberal is a MODERATE district

    Oh – thats right – this isnt Harris County – its NEWYORK

    Seems to me that Gingrich is still right and the Republican conservatives still need to learn some salient lessons like

    A: 83% of a loaf is better than none

    B: 1 is a greater number than 0

    C: You should actually run candidates in the district they reside in

    D: Liberal Republicans are still wildly more conservative than Nancy Pelosi

    E: dont lie repeatedly about someone’s record

    F: Spouting give me liberty and give me death and claiming to support the constitution didnt deliver votes (again ask Perot ask the Birchers)

    G: If your parents didnt tell you – you dont always – get your way – get what you want 100% of the time

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  31. I read an interesting summary of how Dede came to be the candidate. Suffice it to say that it was a far less than ideal method, and one of her friends, and a local county Chairman, threw her votes against the wishes of her constituents. Let me see if I can find the link.

    JD (6dce29)

  32. You asked for it, Dustin.

    JD (6dce29)

  33. Dustin – Hoffmans finished forever IMO

    Problems he has to overcome

    Once a loser always a loser – thats a tough one to beat foremost

    Hoffman’s not going to get the undivided attention of the national conservative and their money, support, volunteers etc

    Hoffmans going to actually have to run on the local issues and weather the trendous Barrage his opponents will level at him

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  34. Once a loser always a loser – thats a tough one to beat foremost

    Barcky lost a race against Bobby Rush. That does not seem to have hampered his career.

    JD (6dce29)

  35. The Other McCain has some interesting information that I’ve linked in Update 4.

    DRJ (dff2ca)

  36. Eric:

    You don’t always get what you want, but, if you try sometimes, you get what you need.

    I’m no big fan of Beck, but he’s a likable guy.

    I doubt he cares a lot about what you or I think on this humble board. Big picture and all.

    Ag80 (3d1543)

  37. If no one else has posted it Fox just called this for Owens. 49% to 45% to 6% for Dede.

    Have Blue (854a6e)

  38. JD

    I wish they had a priimary – but Hughes – (whose political affinities are the same as DeDe’s) decided to give up his seat to caucus with the Obama administration.

    People are forgetting that


    I supported the notion of NY-23 deciding on their own candidate – even with superhuman resources Hoffman fell on his face – now he’s a loser and the loser tag sticks to everyone who stuck thier necks out for him

    I was hoping that we would have momentum – now those idiots destroyed the hard work of Virginia and NJ by totally imploding in NY in what was an easy lead Scozzo was leading by 28 pts before Beck and company started lying wholesale about her

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  39. Eric, Hoffman’s finished forever?

    Are you serious? He started from nothing and almost won this race. That’s pretty awesome. I don’t know you, and that makes it hard to know where you’re coming from. Are you a Republican in the Northeast US? Serious question.

    This ‘once a loser’ thing is absolutely incorrect in politics. Name recognition and values. Hoffman absolutely has a political future… writing him off is just strange.

    You also mentioned that people were lying about Scozzafava’s extremist record. Sorry, charlie, but I disagree there too. She’s a Republican who endorsed the Democrat running against her. Planned parenthood gave her a trophy. She is not a moderate republican, period.

    I don’t understand your sarcastic comments about ‘1 in greater than 0’ or my parents. I just don’t care about that kind of argument… no one else does either.

    Hoffman’s residence is another example of why it’s shocking how well he did in this race. You’re arguing against yourself.

    Dustin (bb61e3)

  40. Eric,

    How can it be a “jump-the-shark” moment for anyone when Scozzafava endorsed the Democratic candidate the day after dropping out of the race. Then went on to record a robo-call, for the Democratic candidate, the day before the election.

    Palin, et al. just pointed out that she was a liberal Democrat in sheep’s clothing a week before the election. Hoffman went from being in 3rd place to maybe squeaking out a win. And, if he loses, he’s positioned himself to be the top candidate in the 2010 election.

    Xmas (060072)

  41. Ag80

    Yeah, who are we anyway?

    I know I’m stupid and have been consigned to sitting at the Patterico kiddie blogging table but apparently this is going to be written right now by others in the Media.

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  42. Dustin

    Yeah Al Gore got more votes than any Democrat in History came within 750 votes of Bush then just 2 years later……

    (Insert chirping noises here)

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  43. I should have known better. She got nominated by the kinds of backroom deal crap that piss people off, and in this case, pissed off conservatives in the district. The audacity of what they did drew the attention of others. A good Republican, were Dede to have been one, and you claim to support, would not have endorsed the Dem, and actively worked making robocalls for the Dem. At best, she was a RINO. The local conservative group that ran Hoffman gave her a 15% voting record, which was one of the lowest in the legislature. She supported the stimulus. She previously ran under the Working Families ACORN party line. She was socially to the left of her district. Obviously she was to the left fiscally, and was a shitbag of a candidate. But you lurvs you some Dede and it makes you insane. I get that.

    JD (6dce29)

  44. The RNC- and NRCC-pumped GOP candidate came in a dismal third and actually withdrew from the race with 3 days left, too late for absentee voters to figure that into their voting. The RNC- and NRCC-pumped GOP candidate was the 3rd Party candidate in that race. However the race finally turns out, the Conservatives won.

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  45. Eric:

    But why should conservatives have supported a candidate who would have voted the Dem line once she got into Congress? Just to give a chit for the GOP?

    Ownes will cast his congressional votes the same as Scozzafava would have, so what was the downside of supporting an alternative since the Dems control the House anyway?

    Party unity? I’m all for that. But, don’t give me a liberal in elephant’s clothing as a choice when the only votes that matter are the ones in Congress.

    Ag80 (3d1543)

  46. To wit

    No one has provided a recording – DeDe went on record in the last debate that she was never for Card check, she was never for late term abortion, she was never ever for most of these things that people accept BECK facts.

    No one can point to a vote she made for any of these issues

    She was also the Moderate that led the fight against overspending by Spitzer and Patterson

    But lets not let the facts get in the way that everyone stepped on their wienies and cant man up to it and lost the seat in a Republican district by running a too conservative candidate

    So with national exposure and lead stories everyday for three weeks Hoffman won by HOW MUCH?


    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  47. Eric – If I am going to have a liberal loser as a congress person they can damn well be a Democrat loser.

    No liberal Republicans need apply in 2010.

    Have Blue (854a6e)

  48. RS McCain updates that Hoffman is expected to concede.

    DRJ (dff2ca)

  49. EricPWJohnson – Are you related to David Frum by any chance?

    daleyrocks (718861)

  50. Ag80

    Thats the spirit lets give up EVEN MORE seats to liberals by exculding moderates

    working real well in NY-23

    hey when the republicans gain a huge amount of seats but are one vote short for speaker and a shit eating grinning Bill Owens cast deciding vote for Fancy Nancy and she passes a wealth confiscation tax on savings and a flat tax

    We’ll all come on here and thank you.

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  51. I know I’m stupid and have been consigned to sitting at the Patterico kiddie blogging table but apparently this is going to be written right now by others in the Media.

    EPWJ, you’d be smarter if you dropped your obsessive attacks on Beck and those mean old paranoid ultraconservatives who are trying to take over the GOP. The evidence isn’t there, despite your silly rantings:

    Politico is running a story today on what it calls the Republican Party’s “nightmare scenario” of conservatives challenging up to a dozen GOP candidates in key House and Senate races in 2010. Politico points to several examples of these challenges, one of which is Utah, where Rep. Bob Bennett is in trouble after, among several troubling votes, “his Wall Street bailout vote last fall.”

    In fact, when you read the article carefully, not one of the conservative candidates mentioned says a word about social issues. All of their opposition is to candidates, like Bennett, who supported or voted for Obama’s massive expansion of the federal government.

    So this is not about litmus tests about abortion or gay marriage, as much as the left would like it to be. Gallup Polls like this and this show a majority of Americans—and most vocally, the tea party activists—upset at the size and scope of government.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407)

  52. Interesting editorial from the Watertown Daily News.

    DRJ (dff2ca)

  53. Eric, I don’t understand your Al Gore reference.

    Regardless, you’re saying Hoffman’s political career has been destroyed, when it’s not even obvious that he didn’t win the election. It’s a very tight squeaker! That’s amazing. You try doing what he did a few weeks before an election. It’s impossible. Hoffman is a novice in many ways, and no one cares. The republicans won big in NJ and Virginia governor’s races, and probably lost by a hair in an exception election with much smaller stakes.

    this is proof that the GOP is on the right track and nominating candidates that the people like a lot more than the democrats are. They won where it really mattered, and will win in NY 23 in 12 short months. Probably with Hoffman!

    I keep detecting a very personal anger. You’ve got a real problem with the people’s treatment of Scozzafava… but she’s the one who proved to be dishonest and extreme. And kinda stupid. You also seem to have a problem with Hoffman… all he did was run for office against two huge political parties. That’s awesome of him, and he deserves respect for his performance.

    Dustin (bb61e3)

  54. daleyrocks

    No I’m not that bright!

    When I’m in chicago I’ll stop by and help you move to a smaller place when a national property tax is passed out of committee headed by Bill Owens to a Nancy Pelosi run house of Representatives – cause we’d rather be right than be smart

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  55. No one can point to a vote she made for any of these issues

    Her husband’s words and her words in supporting the Dem tell us what we need to know about her. Just because she never had the opportunity to vote up or down, yet, on card check and late term infanticide does not mean that she does not support them. Lots of Margaret Sanger Award winners are really pro-life, huh? I am so tired of this party first mentality from people like Eric. You are literally around the bend crazy on this. Hoffman was not “too conservative”. Dede was too liberal. Combined, the Conservative and Rep candidates beat the Dem. The fact that Dede’s liberal buddy gamed the system to get her nominated, thumbing their noses at the process, and the choice of their constituents, suggests that they cared more about themselves than the party. Why not lay it at Dede’s feet, Eric?

    JD (6dce29)

  56. “No one has provided a recording – DeDe went on record in the last debate that she was never for Card check, she was never for late term abortion, she was never ever for most of these things that people accept BECK facts.”

    EricPW – I have no idea what Beck said about her. What I read elsewhere turned me against her. Her actions have proved my opinion correct.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  57. hey when the republicans gain a huge amount of seats but are one vote short for speaker and a shit eating grinning Bill Owens cast deciding vote for Fancy Nancy and she passes a wealth confiscation tax on savings and a flat tax

    He will be grinning knowing that Dede would have done the exact same thing.

    JD (6dce29)

  58. dustin


    Looser, he lost

    Palin endorsed him raised 200K in 48 hrs

    he lost

    Thompson made and paid for nearly 250K of TV ads

    he lost

    Beck gave him unprecedented exposure

    he lost

    Oh but ON HIS OWN (ducking debates, lackluster fund raising) oh man he’ll beat his conservative chest and that’ll move mountains…

    Tea Party Activist are sooo cute when they are still in that political 4 yerar old naivity stage

    Just cute as buttons

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  59. Eric:

    I know I’m stupid and have been consigned to sitting at the Patterico kiddie blogging table but apparently this is going to be written right now by others in the Media.

    What does this mean? Are you saying we should care what the media thinks about political issues?

    DRJ (dff2ca)


    JD (6dce29)

  61. “when a national property tax is passed out of committee headed by Bill Owens”

    EricPW – Dede would have voted for it if Nancy asked if she had won rather than Bill, don’t you think.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  62. Yup, EPWJ is definitely a DIABLO. And a raging lunatic, to boot. (Or is that part of the DIABLO thing?)

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  63. Dustin

    Yeah my anger stems from idiots like Beck and Palin who just raised my taxes by through shameless self promotion.

    A vote for Hoffman was a vote for tax increases now wasnt it – because the result is the same now isnt it?

    What was DeDe leading Owens by before Beck decided that Anna whats her name was not good enough for a rating splurge? 28% in late Septemver and Owens could not get any traction or raise enough money?

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  64. Maybe EPWJ and Lovey are related (if only by marriage).

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  65. Sure Daleyrocks – if thats how you justify total stupidity and bitterness that the conservative Reaganism doesnt EXACTLY work everywhere – go ahead

    Answer this – If the Repubicans were picking committee positions instead of Pelosi – I’ll bet there would never ever be a tax increase


    Hey but shooting yourself in the foot is a time worn tradition of those who cant man up to the fact they stepped in it big time

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  66. Hoffman raised your taxes because Dede is a Dem?

    JD (6dce29)

  67. Let’s see, a vote for Owens is a vote for tax increases because Owens will increase taxes. A vote for Scuzzy Favor is a vote for tax increases because Scuzzy Favor will increase taxes. A vote for Hoffmann is a vote for tax increases because it prevents Scuzzy Favor from coming out of dismal 3rd Party status and winning the whole shootin’ match.

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  68. Eric, when someone told you to shut up yesterday, I defended you. I said that it was important that detractors disagree passionately… even if that means a little anger. I like the debate, and I am here because there’s more than at other blogs I like.

    So why are you being so rude to me? Never mind, actually. I should have shut up instead of defending someone I clearly mistook for a valuable part of the discussion. BTW, Scozzafava is pro-card-check. Just because she lied once and said she wasn’t doesn’t chance a thing. She was a union plant in the GOP, who successfully spoiled this contest.

    It is clear that Hoffman would have won a landslide if he had been nominated. He had less money, less time, and was attacked by his own party for most of this race. But that’s an anomaly. The GOP fatcats don’t get to choose the next nomninee! There will be a primary.

    The only thing this race means is that primaries are crucial. And that Hoffman is a force.

    Dustin (bb61e3)

  69. Again, this one puts party ahead of everything. Fuck that. As expected, it is getting rather surreal again.

    JD (6dce29)

  70. Eric:

    So everything we heard about her was wrong. Fair enough.

    We depended on the MSM (and Beck, although I never heard his comments one way or another. In the central time zone, I tend to be working), and, as usual, they were wrong.

    So, by your premise, she was against card check and single-payer and abortion and losing the war in Iraq and Afghanistan and higher taxes and for less government. I’ll play the game: By god, she was an honest, straight-up Republican.

    So, explain to me exactly why everyone called her a moderate that had to be accepted into the GOP “big tent.” What, exactly were her “moderate” bonafides that made her unacceptable?

    I asked this before and, maybe, you can explain: What is a moderate Republican? What is the issue that makes a Republican “moderate,” other than doing what Democrats want?

    Eric, I know you’re a good guy. I’m not trying to argue, much, but you have to enlighten me here.

    Ag80 (3d1543)

  71. American taxpayers, soldiers in harms way thank you from the bottom of their hearts for enabling a great night for the American way to be upstaged by a persons stand on social issues that had been resolved decades ago

    First Labor unions are private organizations they can do whatever they want, run their organizations the way they want, electing even moderate Republicans enable conservatives to promote business in the untied states that totally invalidates the mission and effectiveness of labor unions

    Abortion will only end when the peace and love of Christ reaches deep enough that self destructive sexual behavior decreases – its beyond the control of leglislators.

    So that justifies maybe giving Nancy another 3 freakin years to wreck this country

    Yeah way to go..

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  72. Ag – Eric doesn’t care about any of that. It is all about the party with him. Period.

    JD (6dce29)

  73. Oh – thats right – this isnt Harris County – its NEWYORK

    Yep, New York is sort of a mini-me of an effete-socialist country like France lumped together with a Third-Worldish pit like Venezuela or Mexico, in which prevailing ideology generally runs from liberal to ultra-liberal.

    So if such leftism has become quite pronounced even in the more leafy hamlets of New York State, did Dede Scozzafava feel she have no choice but to pull out because she was too rightwing for her district?

    Hell, no. She, after all, is mostly of the left.

    So it’s likely she felt she’d split (and was worried about splitting) the votes of the so-called centrists — ie, liberals, if not uber-liberals, by the standards of over 40 years ago — with Owens and turn the election over to Hoffman. She did say she wanted her voters to switch to Owens — and not Hoffman — and that, along with other aspects of her, such as her having a very leftwing husband, speaks volumes.

    Mark (411533)

  74. Ag80

    she was married to a Union Boss – Beck found out about that and went ballistic. That Union controls the STUDIO Beck works in – FOX has problems with the Union DeDes husband helps run in New York and gives assistance too

    Connect the dots she was running for weeks without a PEEP until an issue arose

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  75. Answer this – If the Repubicans were picking committee positions instead of Pelosi – I’ll bet there would never ever be a tax increase


    Hey but shooting yourself in the foot is a time worn tradition of those who cant man up to the fact they stepped in it big time

    Point 1: I didn’t realize Scuzzy Favor’s election would single-handedly wipe out a 50 point Democrat lead.

    Point 2: I doubt Scuzzy Favor would put her vote behind a fiscal conservative for Speaker.

    Point 3: Scuzzy Favor would never put her vote behind a social conservative for Speaker.

    Point 4: Thus Scuzzy Favor would vote for the Democrat Speaker choice.

    Point 5: EPWJ hasn’t figured out how to add 1-digit numbers to 3-digit numbers yet.

    Point 6: EPWJ has both feet so far in his mouth, his posterior is coming out his posterior. (Think about it.) But he doesn’t even realize it.

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  76. So that justifies maybe giving Nancy another 3 freakin years to wreck this country

    Dede was going to turn the House back to Republican control? Who knew?!

    JD (6dce29)

  77. Eric:

    I don’t think you were responding directly to me, but at least I know where you’re coming from.

    You’re a pragmatic. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. It’s just a difference of opinion.

    I simply believe that conservatives have to stand for something, or they stand for nothing. I know what I stand for as a conservative.

    Whether the GOP follows my considerations is doubtful and, quite frankly, mute.

    Ag80 (3d1543)

  78. JD

    So when Palin and Fred start attacking the dozen moderate Candidates in purple districts in California that we could take if we ran a moderate?

    I guess its okay we have soo many seats to just give away over issues that are not coming up for a Federal vote right?

    I mean a trending Purple District always elects a brighter than bright red candidate all the time – see it happening everywhere – no wiat that’s Perots Hallucinations and most TEA PARTY people.

    Governance is not a happy thing its a grey smoggy cloud

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  79. “Yeah my anger stems from idiots like Beck and Palin who just raised my taxes by through shameless self promotion.”

    EricPW – Beck and Palin voted to raise your taxes? How does that work?

    Those two people are so powerful that they can convince 50,000 people to vote for an unknown and force the person leading the race to drop out? That’s what you believe? Go for it. It has nothing to do with exposing Dede’s positions for what they are or anything, I’m sure, absolutely nothing. That’s totally irrelevant because in your world voters cannot think for themselves.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  80. Ag80

    Conservative principles are best served when convincing people of them through national action – not craming them down the throats of a district that HAS NEVER EVER ELECTED A CONSERVATIVE!

    People forget Hughes was to the slight left of DeDe

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  81. daleyrocks

    funny coming from a guy who’s spent soo much time on a blog that correctly defines the abuses of power the Media has when they distort deliberately things for their own idiology

    An example that comes to mind – oh yeah Obama.

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  82. EPWJ, if you ever get tired of throwing your tantrum and punching yourself in the face, answer me this:

    Why do Democrats lunge leftward constantly? Why does the Republican Party match that leftward lunge constantly? And why is it only Conservatives that have to sacrifice their principles, and nobody else?

    That is, if you ever get over your childish tantrums long enough to actually engage your brain.

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  83. Eric – Quit arguing with positions not taken by people. If Palin and Thompson start calling for some ideological litmus test nationwide, I would not support it. But, since they are not doing so, it is really a non-starter. Pointing out that there is a candidate in a race that does not really represent the views of the party as well as another candidate is hardly earth-shattering. But we get it. You care more about the letter behind their name than what they do once they are in office.

    JD (6dce29)

  84. I think there’s a lot to talk about here, but Eric is being dramatic and ugly. Perhaps we can all agree to try to steer this into a more interesting discussion?

    Should Hoffman represent the GOP in 2010? The primary is only what, four or five months away? I hope several republicans run, and articulate the full range of views, so the GOP has a candidate that isn’t so ridiculous.

    It’s odd that this race has overshadowed the big races, too. It probably is to be expected, but we’re talking about a very oddball election. I’m surprised Palin and Beck and all those types were able to make such an impact, and almost wish Scozza had stayed in the race, just to see how many of these New Yorkers support Hoffman. Teh democrat commenter on Fox News said this was the ‘extreme extreme right wing’, but that doesn’t change the vote tally… it’s a large chunk of that district, so it’s pretty mainstream extreme extreme.

    Dustin (bb61e3)

  85. “So when Palin and Fred start attacking the dozen moderate Candidates in purple districts in California that we could take if we ran a moderate?”

    If a dozen moderate candidate in California have a chance of winning and are derailed by Palin and Fred I’ll start worrying about it then, not now. Right now it’s about as likely as global warming causing Manhattan to sink in the next ten years, but keep up the hysterics.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  86. And for the record, an increasing number of independent voters were Republicans until their party left them by going left. It’s not enough to be “not Democrat” any more.

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  87. Daleyrocks

    One guy told me ( a really old Arab who was born into slavery under the Ottoman Empire, then emancipated to be a Slave to the French Foriegn Legion then escaping them only to be enslaved by the British until Nixon kicked out the UK from the Middle East in 70) This nobody said to me – if people could think for themselves – there would be no television

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  88. Palin was preaching party unity all week long. the idea that she’s some extreme radical is absurd. Yeah, she didn’t abort her kid. A lot of people really hate her guts, too, for personal tabloidy reasons. But she’s moderate. She’s a big tenter. She was JOHN MCCAIN’S choice, after all.

    Dustin (bb61e3)

  89. dustin

    Its an ugly lesson that Newt tried and tried to keep people out of a local race – but nooooooo

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  90. Dustin – You should have heard the tirade that Crissy Mathews went on about how Palin is a theocrat whack-job.

    JD (6dce29)

  91. Newt, who endorsed Scuzzy Favor and campaigned for Scuzzy Favor from his home in Georgia? Or is that DC? And you don’t even see the irony in your statement?

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  92. dustin

    She interferred and lost and people were writing that if she lost here she loses her edge

    she lost it – she went against the party and lost

    Maybe if you throw your hat into a ring you should actually campaign for the guy – but then again it may have been the edge to Owens who sits their dumfounded that he was 30 pts behind and thanks to a network that hates his party

    He gets to pick out drapes in his new office on Capital Hill

    Man what luck!

    But everyone keep on rationalizing away its sad and somewhat depressing to watch good people try and spin this…..

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  93. Oh, wait. Lemme do this right. Newt could’ve stayed home in Georgia and stayed out of a New York race, but nooooooooooooooooooooooooo, he had to endear himself to the RNC powerbrokers for his 2012 run.

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  94. Wow. EPWJ has entered LaRouche territory, “enslaved by the British . . .” blah blah blah.

    Next, shall we hear how Queen Elizabeth is a drug smuggler?

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407)

  95. John

    Newt endorsed her republicanism and supported the right of a local people to get to elect their own representatives

    I know that somehow’s not as American as it used to be but it dies hard in some of us

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  96. Bradley

    I live in Qatar which was a british empire controlled place – maybe not everyone is as lucky as you and me to live in a country that was founded by conservative principles

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  97. Palin went against the RNC power-brokers and the hand-chosen LIB (R) came in a very-distant 3rd. THAT’S THIRD FOR THE LIBERAL DIABLO AND NOT SECOND, AND BY A HUGE AMOUNT SO THE LIBERAL DIABLO LOST AND THE RNC AND NRCC LOST. (Am I doing this capslock cool thing right?)

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  98. John, we don’t need to let Eric decide what we are talking about, do we? He’s going to keep spiting out random and ugly points, and trying to attract attention. I don’t know why. He’s passionate about politics, so he probably loved our country, but doesn’t care enough to have a good discussion about these issues.

    Newt is irrelevant to this race. A party loyalist was loyal to his party. No one cares.

    JD, Chris Matthews knows that Palin is the big threat. There’s a lot of folks out there who are utterly convinced that Palin is dirty, is extreme, and said all kinds of ridiculous things. It’s amazing to me how far the left is going in attacking her. That’s a big part of what this race in New York was about. Palin isn’t really an outsider if she had that kind of impact. Just a few short days, and nearly half the district responded favorably to her (and very few appeared to join Owens after her endorsement). I guess that’s overpraise… she was the big endorsement, but not the only one.

    She really should have appeared in New York. Am I correct that she did not?

    Dustin (bb61e3)

  99. It is really rather pointless to discuss this with someone that thinks that using ALL CAPS IS GOING TO CHANGE SOMEBODY’S MIND.

    JD (6dce29)

  100. EPWJ,
    So the British enslaved this really old Arab guy in Qatar until 1970? A guy who you say “was born into slavery under the Ottoman Empire, then emancipated to be a Slave to the French Foriegn Legion then escaping them…”?

    Pardon my skepticism.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407)

  101. Its funny when people make these sweeping decisions that Hoffman was it and then when he falls flat say it was nothin

    yeah it was nothin – yeah another seat in congress – yeah Barney frank is another seat, Nancy Pelosi is another seat – yeah – just another seat

    no biggie

    millions wasted in hard earned American conservative Republican Pac money on a guy who couldnt be bothered to debate and live in the district and actually gove local media interviews

    So whats the color of that district again?

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  102. Hoffman has conceded the election.

    John Hitchcock, that’s a good point. Palin’s candidate earned ten times the votes that the NRCC’s candidate earned. We will have another ‘civil war’ in the form of a primary, next year.

    Dustin (bb61e3)

  103. Bradley,

    not to be rude but as a former reporter – I didnt think I would have to do simple research for you…..

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  104. The color of the district is blue, Eric.

    According to Wiki, NY’s 23rd Congressional District includes all of Clinton, Franklin, Hamilton, Jefferson, Lewis, Madison, Oswego, and St. Lawrence counties and parts of Essex, Fulton, and Oneida counties. Here’s how those counties voted in the 2008 Presidential election:

    Total vote in counties that are completely in NY23:
    Clinton — Obama 20,216 (61%); McCain 12,579 (38%)
    Franklin – Obama 10,571 (61%); McCain 6,676 (38%)
    Hamilton – Obama 1,225 (36%); McCain 2,141 (63%)
    Jefferson – Obama 18,166 (47%); McCain 20,220 (52%)
    Lewis – Obama 4,986 (45%); McCain 5,969 (54%)
    Madison – Obama 14,692 (49%); McCain 14,434 (49%)
    Oswego – Obama 24,777 (50%); McCain 23,571 (48%)
    St. Lawrence – Obama 23,706 (58%); McCain 16,956 (41%)

    Total vote in counties that are partially in NY23:
    Essex – Obama 10,390 (56%); McCain 7,913 (43%)
    Fulton – Obama 9,695 (45%); McCain 11,709 (54%)
    Oneida – Obama 43,506 (46%); McCain 49,256 (52%)

    Thus, even if we count all the votes cast in the partial counties — 2 out of 3 of which favored McCain — McCain barely won the raw vote in NY23 by 171,424 to Obama’s 161,714. And according to Michael Barone, Obama won NY 23 with 52% of the vote, so the heavily Republican areas that voted for McCain are apparently in a separate Congressional district. In other words, despite the way it’s being portrayed in the media, I don’t see how NY23 can fairly be described as a “heavily Republican district.”

    DRJ (dff2ca)

  105. Eric:

    I happen to agree with you on your points.

    Being a good conservative is essential in making people understand what you really stand for. I don’t know how to make people understand that on a national scale.

    For me, you can only do it on a local or personal level. You have to live your life as an example and stand by your principles.

    My principles are: God, country and the American way.

    Ag80 (3d1543)

  106. Dustin

    dont count on it Palins not going to even return Hoffmans phone calls – I’m sure she’s pissed that that pissant wouldnt even go out door to door and ask people to vote

    he was just hopin and prayin for a gift

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  107. Hoffman’s concession speech makes clear that he is still running for this seat. He’s got 4 months to convince the GOP voters that he’s the right choice.

    Bill Owens is not an extreme candidate (in my opinion), but people are upset at the way the GOP lost this seat. They have held it since World War 1.

    Dustin (bb61e3)

  108. EPWJ,
    not to be rude but as a former reporter – I didnt think I would have to do simple research for you…..

    You said the British enslaved a guy until 1970. Any link to that?

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407)

  109. Eric, I asked you to be civil a couple of times, and now you’re calling Hoffman a pissant. What’s with that?

    What kind of argument is that?

    Dustin (bb61e3)

  110. Ag80

    Yep, but even Jesus said you can plant seeds, you will know we are christians by our love – loving America means that we have to hold our noses for the DeDe’s of the world or we are enabling people who HATE this country and a party that is besotten with systamatic corruption to be juuuusst a little bit stronger today

    DeDe winning in NY-23 would have changed the face of politics and health care

    governorships dont mean a freakin thing not anything at all – they dont have a vote in washington

    Window dressing

    The whole game was NY-23 and DeDe had a huge lead

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  111. dustin

    Allah and others called him one too –

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  112. EPWJ
    governorships dont mean a freakin thing not anything at all – they dont have a vote in washington

    Have you heard of reapportionment?

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407)

  113. DeDe winning in NY-23 would have changed the face of politics and health care

    You should warn us before you hit the “Submit Comment” button with this kind of drivel.

    JD (6dce29)

  114. I think something that is unfortunate for Owens is that Palin and Hoffman and other moderates are able to generate a lot of extreme leftist attention, who then alienate everyone.

    I keep seeing democrats scream, in the most extreme manner, that Hoffman was an extremist. Owens knows he’s going to have a very hard time keeping this seat. He ran as a moderate democrat because these crazies don’t represent the people. He’s going to have a really hard time keeping the media from defining the election as some kind of repudiation of Palin’s views. Palin’s views on energy and the economy probably resonate with Owen’s voters, and in a year, the impatience with the economy will make that doubly true.

    It will be fun to watch this district.

    Dustin (bb61e3)

  115. Comment by Dustin — 11/3/2009 @ 10:08 pm
    It is my understanding that the GOP had held this seat since 1872!
    That was a different German War.

    AD - RtR/OS! (e6a9d0)

  116. AD, I stand corrected.

    What a sad legacy Dede Scozzafava and her backroom deals with crooks managed to destroy. But the GOP deserved to lose this seat.

    Dustin (bb61e3)

  117. Hoffman wasnt a candidate – he was a protest candidate to get on more boards and get more clients for his business consulting firm.

    Obama ran for President never ever thinking he had a chance – but did it for the money – you see the first national Black Candidate is going to have speaking fees, book deals, Television shows – millions of Dollars but low and behold and I’ll bet in private Obama is still stunned that he beat Hillary and he’s in the Oval Office right now!

    Hoffman was using the Huckabee prinicple – its okay if you lose as long as you look good doing it

    Huckabee was nearing financial distress after his payin gig as governor was over and his wife lost her chance at a statewide office and now well he’s sittin awful pretty with his media fueled rise.

    Hoffmans financial disclosures told me all – for someone who at 27 was the CFO of arguably the most important event that every happened in the history of his community he earnings were not up to others like Romney. He was a thousandiare not a millionaire

    This was a way to pad an anemic resume – he had no idea that DeDe’s husband would go after a conservative reporter and ignite a firestorm of horsehit that almost equaled the Daivd Duke vs The Jail bound Governor in Louisiana

    And people here did not cover themsleves in Glory by assisting in this assisted self inflicted sucide of this district

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  118. EPWJ still has not put down the bong.

    AD - RtR/OS! (e6a9d0)

  119. Now you are just making stuff up.

    And the “eople here did not cover themsleves in Glory by assisting in this assisted self inflicted sucide of this district” is just precious beyond words.

    JD (6dce29)

  120. EPWJ, isn’t it time for you to go on your walkabout? Maybe you can get lost this time (or caught peeking under some woman’s veil).

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  121. JD

    Man up dude you lost a seat held for 170 years by Republicans


    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  122. Eric, those arguments are just terrible. I don’t think they are even accurate, but even if they are… they don’t really mean anything. He didn’t get his ass kicked… he lost be a hair after both huge parties fought him tooth and nail!

    Owens deserved to win, and will do a better job than Dede, a spoiler candidate. Hoffman’s massive and broad support prove that he was not a protest candidate… he was the preference of approximately half the voters. He’s not the boogeyman… there’s nothing wrong with being in business (even if you aren’t a millionaire, but Hoffman’s successful). Hoffman espouses views you disagree with. Why not just stick with that?

    You are attacking everyone… attacking ‘people here’, I guess meaning on this blog, for [killing] this district. How strange. Fighting against Dede led to a moderate winning the election. How is that so bad?

    Also, Hoffman is still running. The election isi n four months. You have said his career is over, and that kind of negativity is not going to help you cope. You’re clearly emotionally invested in this man failing, and I think that’s not good.

    Why don’t we talk about the issues? I think Owens will be a reliable vote against Obama’s initiatives.

    Dustin (bb61e3)

  123. 1872 – 2009 = 170-YEARS!
    Boy, that New Math is tough.

    AD - RtR/OS! (e6a9d0)

  124. Oh BTW EPWJ, the Republican Party did not exist 170 years ago…You could look it up, it is an historical fact…You know what facts are don’t you?
    They’re those things you constantly ignore.

    AD - RtR/OS! (e6a9d0)

  125. By reliable vote, of course, Owens won’t really be able to vote too much in the run up to the 2010 elections. The dems are now on high alert to limit their exposure. he will have to beat Hoffman in a fair fight next time.

    Dustin (bb61e3)

  126. I lost that seat, Eric? Pray tell how I did so, and while you are at it, explain to me why I should have supported someone that holds very few, if any, of the same views as myself?

    JD (6dce29)

  127. John

    Now I know you wouldnt wish me harm in an Arab world where 8 people and some where children have been maimed and killed by Arabs

    I know you are just sitting there bitter that the 170 year seat – the one where the moderate and fiscally conserrvative republican candidate had a 28% lead just a month ago – lost because you believed a guy who started this internet fact sheet on his Fox Talk show about how DeDe was for this and for that – yewt from everyone – I’m still not seeing a vote or a piece of sponsored legislation from ANYONE AND ANYSOUCE that proved that DeDe wasnt anything but conservative

    After all the very liberal Chicago University Department of Political Science rated her 83% most conservative member of the NY Assembly

    but people have made the claim here and Shep keeps claiming the same talking point on Fox ntil hume cut his legs off brutally with the same thing I’m saying – he saw nothing that she was more to the left that everyone else.

    I posted links to official sources, text of her sponsored legislation, copies of here political speeches, letters she sent to the governor

    But all that got in the way of a trashing and thrashing because tea party conservatives are still wailing and gnashing their teeth when the railed against McCain and lost a close election

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  128. Also, even if Hoffman had won 100% of the vote, the GOP would have lost the seat they held for a long time. Which is OK.

    That aspect is interesting, but not important.

    Dustin (bb61e3)

  129. JD not directed at you

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  130. 170 year seat

    Eric, people pointed out above that this is another asspull on your part. The rest of your “arguement” appears directed at people here, as you are answering positions not taken.

    JD (6dce29)

  131. dustin

    The Tea Party thing is over – died a death once Hoffman was too lazy to knock on doors and answer questions from local papers and debates

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  132. dustin

    The Tea Party thing is over – died a death once Hoffman was too lazy to knock on doors and answer questions from local papers and debates

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  133. WAIT, did the GOP lose? They simply dropped out of this election. In fact, the candidate the GOP nominee endorsed, won his seat!

    If this was just a pissing match of pettiness, then the GOP won the day! Of course, it is not.

    Dustin (bb61e3)

  134. JD

    Man up dude you lost a seat held for 170 years by Republicans

    Was that directed to some other JD in this thread that you were having a discussion with?

    JD (6dce29)

  135. It was directed at the JD voice in his head!

    AD - RtR/OS! (e6a9d0)

  136. AD

    yeah since 1872 makes it sound sooo much better

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  137. Eric, you do realize that you are obviously repudiated once Palin continues to support Hoffman and he wins the primary in four months?

    What is your goal? It’s not to convince anyone… I’ve been reasonable and nice to you, and that seems to REALLY piss you off.

    You said you were upset by people being dishonest about details in this election. You’re saying that Hoffman refused to debate, or refused to talk to reporters. We all know that your candidate, Dede Scozzafava, actually did those things (famously), and that Hoffman debated and spoke to the press. I don’t know or care much about the door to door thing, but thanks to the timing, I don’t think Hoffman had the luxury of doing everything candidates get to do.

    He had a very short amount of time to try to gain any support at all. Single digits a few days ago. He didn’t go door to door. That’s your argument? I think you’d be mocking him if he had.

    Dustin (bb61e3)

  138. EPWJ, you’re a bad machine. The fact you don’t know you’re a bad machine proves you’re a bad machine. Good machines walk around the monolith counter-clockwise. The fact you’re walking around the monolith clockwise means you’re a bad machine. That’s why you’re here. Because you’re a bad machine and you need to be fixed.

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  139. JD

    Okay that was directed ERRONEOUSLY to you

    I apologize


    Look I have to go to the Embassy good night

    friends dont let friends get democrats elected under any situation

    I think we can all agree on that

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)


    JD (6dce29)

  141. John

    Thanks for te advice!

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  142. Eric, you attack people, lie about who you attacked, and then say that your own arguments aren’t even relevant once they are disproven.

    Are you an astroturfer, working to make us sympathetic to Hoffman? Or is it Palin you’re trying to help out? Take a sec and read over your arguments in this thread. Do they really make sense to you?

    Dustin (bb61e3)

  143. friends dont let friends get democrats elected under any situation

    I think we can all agree on that

    Then you would agree that it was a good thing that Dede did not win this seat.

    JD (6dce29)

  144. “I work here is done”

    AD - RtR/OS! (e6a9d0)

  145. eric, a lot of us are saying it’s OK that the democrat won. I know I called him a moderate earlier in this thread, who would do better than corrupt old backroom Dede. So when you characterize me that way, you’re lying.

    I just want the people to have a fair election. That’s what Dede denied us tonight. That’s what this was about. The TEA movement is over, in your view, because Hoffman came up a little short. You are full of anger, anyway, in your moment of triumph.

    Have fun at your Embassy. They have the best breakfast of all the cheap hotels, and I’m a big fan.

    Dustin (bb61e3)

  146. JD

    yeah – keep on venting the pain will come soon when you see Pelosi welcome Owens and he votes for her health care bill

    Taxpayers everywhere are thanking you.

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  147. “Midnight Express” reference. Likely you missed it due to youthful indiscretions such as taping your hashish to your ribs.

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  148. Embassy’s in the middle east dont serve breakfast to citizens – they just strip search them repeatedly

    EricPWJohnson (bd3301)

  149. And now we know why EPWJ goes to the embassy so often.

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  150. yeah – keep on venting the pain will come soon when you see Pelosi welcome Owens and he votes for her health care bill

    Taxpayers everywhere are thanking you.

    So, you were blaming me for the Owens win above. The one that you said was not directed at me.

    What makes you think the Dede would not have done the exact same thing?

    JD (6dce29)

  151. Surreal, once again.

    JD (6dce29)

  152. EPWJ, I think your work here has earned you a 3-veil trip. 😉

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  153. Well, now that the troll is ‘gone’ (they usually are lying when they say they are gone, and come right back once a good discussion develops), do y’all think Hoffman should be the GOP man in 4 months?

    I didn’t get the impression that he was not a mainstream, even slightly RINO republican. Isn’t he soft on immigration? We haven’t really had much time to get to understand this district or Hoffman, I guess.

    It’s interesting to me that Palin went out on a limb. I think her impact on the race was pretty impressive, but is she really thinking about her political reputation when she goes out on a limb? Probably not. I thought this when she resigned (I think justifiably)… she is governed by gut instinct, which can be a good thing, but it can be a very bad thing. That flubbed ‘what do you read?’ question was a prime example of Palin getting angry at an asshole, and looking foolish.

    So I wonder if she will keep on taking these risks. Probably will.

    Dustin (bb61e3)

  154. I will consider eating my own head if Owens votes for a health care bill that is anything like what Pelosi wants. If he does, that means he’s accepted that he’s hopeless for reelection.

    Dustin (bb61e3)

  155. OT: Bloomberg declared NYC winner (not necessarily a good thing)

    But about Palin (admittedly your tangent), she is Alaskan. Mid-west (not big cities), Texas, Alaska have something in common. And I’m going to coin a phrase here:

    I could get it done a lot faster if you would quit helping me.

    And that “looking foolish” thing? Likely she looked foolish to fools and to people who haven’t seen her in action; to many others, not so much. Just straight-shootin’.

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  156. What the vast majority of the commentariat here at PP wish is irrelevant.
    The choices for 2010 will be made by the Primary Voters in NY-23, as it should be,
    and should have been, if NY Election Law wasn’t so corrupt.

    AD - RtR/OS! (e6a9d0)

  157. Yep, AP. That’s basically what this election was about. What a stupid way to handle nominations.

    John, you’re right that Palin is a straight shooter. I think she’s a smart lady, and I tend to agree with her POV. I don’t think it’s a bad thing that she backed someone who was losing badly in polls until very recently… I think that’s awesome and principled. I just find that kind of thing interesting.

    Palin has absolutely looked foolish upon occasion, and I’m no fool for seeing that. She’s a smart lady who is very passionate about her core principles, and she doesn’t abide bullshit very well. When I say she appeared foolish, I was confining that to a specific incident where she didn’t answer an easy (and extremely rude) question, and looked stupid. That kind of thing happens with Palin every now and then, and that’s the price she pays for not being a seasoned beltway Republican who knows all the little points about how memes work. That’s obviously a big part of her appeal and unappeal. I don’t think she was foolish for endorsing Hoffman. You are correct that people shouldn’t underestimate her… but let’s not overestimate her. Like the NY 23, we need a tough and thorough primary.

    This race is a little bit about Palin’s impact, the TEA party impact, etc. It’s not just about Hoffman and Owens’s personal views. People want to send a message, are reacting to Obama, the economy, the party leadership, etc.

    I think I’m missing the Texas+Alaska+Midwest point. It’s probably obvious, but it’s eluding me. I think those states make a huge impact in the legislature… that’s why Palin is such an important force.

    Dustin (bb61e3)

  158. Dustin, I just wrote an article on my site which may clarify things a little. (translucent mud instead of opaque mud) Look for the coined phrase, if you’re interested. Or not.

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  159. Hoffman goes from single digits to 45% of the vote in less than two weeks and some how the conservatives are the losers?!

    Not to mention forcing the trojan horse democrat out of the race in sobbing full out abject defeat.

    In retrospect, considering the rest of the races today, the way to guarantee victory for Hoffman would have been to have Obama appear for Owens several times. Extrapolating from the other races would each appearance have meant a loss of 5% each time?

    Have Blue (854a6e)

  160. John, I’m interested. didn’t know you had a blog.

    can someone tell me what DIABLO stands for?

    Dustin (bb61e3)

  161. can someone tell me what DIABLO stands for?
    Comment by Dustin — 11/3/2009 @ 11:52 pm

    Democrat In All But Letter Only

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  162. Anyone with a blue name has a blog, and DIABLO is like RINO only stronger. Democrat In All But Label Only. Kinda like BANANA is NIMBY but stronger. Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything.

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  163. Or stash’s term, maybe fits better.

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  164. I’ve seen both John, so I’d bet “label” is correct since I chose “letter”. 😉

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  165. I would also note Stash has a blog. It’s just ancient and dusty, last time I looked.

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  166. You should also note that it was essentially a crapblog which is one reason I’m behind the scenes more often than not these days. 😛

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  167. BANANA and DIABLO are hilarious labels.

    Dustin (bb61e3)

  168. It was said that Palin wouldn’t even return Hoffman’s phone calls at this point, but Palin isn’t done with NY 23 just yet.

    I commend Doug Hoffman and all the other under-dog candidates who have the courage to put themselves out there and run against the odds.

    To the tireless grassroots patriots who worked so hard in that race and to future citizen-candidates like Doug, please remember Reagan’s words of encouragement after his defeat in 1976:

    “The cause goes on. Don’t get cynical because look at yourselves and what you were willing to do, and recognize that there are millions and millions of Americans out there that want what you want, that want it to be that way, that want it to be a shining city on a hill.”

    Apparently Palin is determined to keep going after a defeat. What a freaking shock.

    Dustin (bb61e3)

  169. Palin came out against a candidate and she came in a distant third with 6% of the vote, less than one seventh of her closest competitor.
    So according to Eric, Sarah Palin is the loser in this race.

    Have Blue (854a6e)

  170. That’s okay, stash. I have a crapblog. I’m just too dumb to quit posting on it.

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  171. “Fortunately, the local Republican county chairs had the foresight to see that Doug Hoffman lacked the integrity and qualities needed to be elected to anything — let alone Congress.”

    That’s what the NRCC said. Is there some reason to question Hoffman’s integrity? Why are these guys so much nicer to democrats than republicans, anyway?

    The NRCC was much harsher towards Hoffman than Owens was. They spent much of their money, perhaps most of it, telling the voters that Hoffman is some kind of monster. THAT’S why the democrats won. It’s hard to win when your own party is slinging mud at you. That kind of attack has a special kind of credibility. Some republicans would have voted for Hoffman if these attacks had not occurred. It’s hard to see Scozzafava’s endorsement helping Owens much, but it probably had a small impact.

    It’s amazing to consider that. I can certainly understand ‘moderates’ and conservatives disagreeing, but the degree of rage the NRCC showed towards Hoffman goes way beyond that. What is the consequence?

    Dustin (bb61e3)

  172. Tea Parties, Town Halls, 912? RNC and NRCC didn’t build those, so none of those people count. Didn’t you get the memo? Oh, my mistake, you don’t count.

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  173. If that fact about the NRCC gets widely known, it would be interesting to see what happens to their contributions.

    I think a lot of people already are tired of giving to national committees that support candidates that many of the grass roots don’t like. More money to specific candidates?

    MD in Philly (8b02c7)

  174. Hoffman, as of this morning, still hasn’t conceded on his FB page.

    Dan F (52faed)

  175. Gross! Someone on my favorite right wing blog just quoted McCain. What’s next: analysis from David Duke?

    As for Hoffman, Democrats everywhere want to thank you for this seat. While I still wish Hoffman had won, the reaction of tools like Erickson still make me happy. “This is a huge win.” Just gorgeous. It’s like the Ministry of Truth in 1984 if it were run by a retard.

    Which brings me to, Palin and Armey and Fred Thompson take a seat which had been Republican since 1880 and turn it Democratic! And, you guys helped them. You really are the best.

    timb (449046)

  176. THe NRCC is now 0-2, one by simple incompetence (Tedesco), the second by aggravated injury (Scozzofava/Hoffman). They were the ones who disbursed a cool mill to Dede, what did Joe Cassano join their ranks

    bishop (4e0dda)

  177. Wow. EPWJ shredded whatever credibility he had with last night’s performance, including the British enslaving an Arab until 1970, a Republican party that existed in 1839, Scozzafava was a conservative, and all the incoherent blabber against Hoffman, Palin, etc.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407)

  178. What is it with that Eric guy ? Hoffman came from nowhere and showed a very good campaign on not very much preparation. I kept hearing about he doesn’t live in the district. That makes me think his business is in the district, which is enormous. I think he is the candidate for next time and will have a united party behind him. There seems to be a lot of people with other agendas posting on this. Sarah Palin’s endorsement was huge and drew a lot of money into his campaign. Gingrich pretty well ended any party ambitions he may have held with his bone headed mistakes.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  179. #178 Mike K:

    What is it with that Eric guy ?

    Not sure, but I don’t think large doses of psychotropics are wise in Islamic Qatar.

    #174 MD in Philly:

    If that fact about the NRCC gets widely known, it would be interesting to see what happens to their contributions.

    Their contributions have been dropping “steadily” (think an anvil dropped from a rooftop) lately.

    Mostly because, like the Democrat Party walked off and left many of its members as it careened leftward, the NRCC is increasingly irrelevant…or an actual hindrance.

    EW1(SG) (edc268)

  180. What is it with that Eric guy ?

    All you need to know about him is that he’s Newt’s Head Fluffer, and also his beyootch when other options aren’t available.

    I ignored this thread last night because I knew the moronic convergence would commence immediately – and timmah! completes the circle. Really, this guy works at our embassy in Qatar? Gotta be Dggcrpp, I just know it.

    Brent Hume…

    It’s Britt Hume, you ignorant Newtie Cabana – Boy.

    Dmac (a964d5)

  181. Dmac, is it too much to ask you to say things? Random typing: “gee, I don’t like that tim” is not exactly analysis, you hayseed, shoot-the-messenger halfwit.

    Personally, as someone who knows Eric Johnson is almost as big a wingnut as the rest of you, the civil war amongst “conservatives” is so amusing. Continue purging.

    Oh, and DRJ, you should be ashamed to link to that Mccain guy. What’s next, cross-posting to Stormfront? Racists who oppose miscegenation and who mail laudatory letters on American Renaissance magazine are way too slimy to hang here.

    timb (8f04c0)

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