Fact-Challenged Piece on ACORN in L.A. Times
Peter Dreier’s op-ed about ACORN in the L.A. Times is so filled with inaccuracies it’s hard to know where to start. Let’s start with Dreier’s false statements about the recent ACORN videos:
Two “gotcha” right-wing activists showed up at about 10 ACORN offices hoping to entice low-level staff to provide tax advice for an illegal prostitution ring. In most ACORN offices, the staff kicked the pair out. In a few cities, staffers called the police. In two offices, however, the staff listened and offered to help. That was wrong. But ACORN immediately fired the errant staffers.
Let’s bypass the edited Philadelphia video for now.
DRJ has painstakingly documented the release of ACORN videos in San Diego, in San Bernardino, in Brooklyn, in Washington, D.C., and in Baltimore.
Watch the videos. ACORN employees are seen advising two young people on how to hide money from the federal government, misrepresent the nature of their business on tax forms, and so forth. They repeatedly shrug at explicit descriptions of a prostitution ring involving girls 13-15 years old smuggled across the border.
That’s more than two.
And that’s assuming there are no more videos. I think that would be a bad assumption.
What’s more, in the post on the San Diego video, you can see Andrew Breitbart categorically state that, as DRJ put it, “no ACORN office kicked James and Hannah out based on the fact that they were doing something nefarious.” I have seen no proof to the contrary. What I have seen is ACORN claiming that happened — and then videos appearing from those cities proving ACORN wrong.
You’re entitled to your own opinions, Peter Dreier, but not your own facts.
Let’s move on to Dreier’s false claims about voter fraud:
Our study documented that many news outlets reported the voter fraud allegations without attempting to verify them. Had they done so, they would have discovered that not a single person who signed a phony name on a registration form ever actually voted. What occurred was voter registration fraud, not voter fraud, and it was ACORN that exposed the wrongdoing in the first place.
Darnell Nash of Cleveland, Ohio, was registered to vote by ACORN nine times for last year’s election. Nash cast a fraudulent ballot and was convicted of vote fraud and voter registration fraud. He’s currently serving a six-month prison term.
A spokesman for Cleveland’s Democratic prosecutor Bill Mason told me earlier this month that a local investigation of ACORN remains wide open.
[UPDATE: I have since learned that the American Spectator article was incorrect to assert that Nash was convicted of vote fraud. He was charged with vote fraud and numerous other felonies, but was convicted of three counts of false registration. I have written the author of the American Spectator piece seeking a correction but have received no response. Details in an update to this post.]
As DRJ recently noted, another ACORN-linked group is connected to a New York case in which voter registration fraud not only resulted in actual vote fraud, but likely even threw the election to the Democrats. In comments to that DRJ post, Richard Aubrey noted the problem: “Problem is, if a guy votes fraudulently, how do you know it’s fraudulent? If it looked fraudulent, you wouldn’t let him vote and, presto, no fraudulent vote.”
To me it’s common sense that there are tens of thousands of illegal votes cast in every national election. With well over 10 million illegal immigrants, many with phony documentation that appears authentic enough to allow them to work, collect welfare benefits, etc. — you think none of them cast votes in elections, where you usually don’t even have to show an ID to vote?? You think ACORN registered none of the ones who did vote?
Even if you stick with only the documented example above, Dreier is wrong to say there are none.
The L.A. Times should correct Dreier’s misrepresentations.
If you read up on Professor Dreier’s background and classes that he teaches (and the student comments), nothing you have written will surprise you.
He is the poster child for Teh Narrative.
And despite how he goes on about the plight of the poor, it is worthwhile to look into his own lifestyle.
Catty of me, I know. But the man is pretty much a hypocrite, and wants other people to pay for his pipe dreams.Eric Blair (dd11cc) — 10/23/2009 @ 7:46 am
“ACORN!” is Republican for “You people just don’t know you place.”David Ehrenstein (2550d9) — 10/23/2009 @ 7:48 am
(Hang on, is the LA Times a news organization or an entertainment provider? <== broken record)
Perhaps it's the new math… 5 looks a lot like 2 when you use a mirror. Depending on the font?
Plus, you have to give credit to the 2 offices that offered to help. They are just being helpful.
Lastly, didn’t Darnell register under his own name? So, technically, he didn’t register and vote under a false name.
(How many points do I get for that?)
[note: fished from spam filter. –Stashiu]Corwin (ea9428) — 10/23/2009 @ 7:55 am
Hey, does the Times piece refer to Acorn as merely “left leaning”? I love it when they (The Times, the AP, et al) do that. I especially love it when Acorn is referred to as left leaning in the same paragraph where Fox is referred to as far right.Sean P (50f5d9) — 10/23/2009 @ 7:59 am
I saw his piece too, and I kept wondering under which rock has he been hiding for the past few months?Viktor Nehring (0a911a) — 10/23/2009 @ 7:59 am
Those are just aggressive lies. It is what we have come to expect. Prolly Bush’s fault.JD (545da5) — 10/23/2009 @ 8:01 am
ACORN is indeed merely “Left leaning,” compared to Professor Dreier. And he teaches the youth of America!Eric Blair (dd11cc) — 10/23/2009 @ 8:06 am
David Dreier teaches the youth of America? What a scary thought.David Ehrenstein (2550d9) — 10/23/2009 @ 8:12 am
Dreier’s world is crumbling around him. Relying on the hopeychangey rhetoric of the “One” he blindly mistakes the setting sun as a rising sun.
Note to Dreier; you need updated lesson plans and remove your hands from your ears. Saying “NAH NAH NAH NAH – I can’t hear you” doesn’t negate the reality of your lost dreams. Or are you singing the party line in hopes of working in D.C. after the next round of newsroom cuts?vet66 (9d1bb3) — 10/23/2009 @ 8:13 am
Dreier’s been writing ACORN apologia for years in places like The Nation, in the HuffPo, and has even worked with ACORN.
“(A)ccording to Dreier’s bio on his college’s website:
He teaches Intro to American Politics, Urban Politics and Policy, Community Organizing and Leadership, Movements for Social Justice, and Work & Labor in America.
He has worked closely with a wide range of community organizations, labor unions, and public interest organizations, and has worked as a consultant for a variety of foundations and government agencies, including the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD), VISTA, the Connecticut Conference of Municipalities, the U.S. Conference of Mayors, the MacArthur Foundation, the Boston Foundation, the California AFL-CIO, the Los Angeles County Federation of Labor, ACORN, the Industrial Areas Foundation, the Rockefeller Foundation, and others.
Industrial Areas Foundation was started by none other than Saul Alinsky.
Dreier is a member of the Social Policy magazine Editorial Advisory Group. Social Policy was started by ACORN and managed by Wade Rathke.
Dreier also authored an article in 2005 on the importance of ACORN to “progressive politics” in America.”
Just the guy to co-author a fair “academic study” on ACORN!Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407) — 10/23/2009 @ 8:21 am
#7: Hey, isn’t that, like, a conflict of interest or something?Sean P (50f5d9) — 10/23/2009 @ 8:22 am
Don’t blame Dreier, he can’t help himself. Blame the LASlimes for not printing it in the fiction section. Wait, they can’t do that because the entire paper is fiction. I don’t worry about the Media slimes/copy boys any more. They’ll calm down after President O’Dumbo takes them over and his pay Czar sets their salary at a max of $25K per year or less.Scrapiron (4e0dda) — 10/23/2009 @ 8:26 am
#7: Hey, isn’t that, like, a conflict of interest or something?
I’m guessing Dreier is tenured, which means he can get away with minor things like conflicts of interest and writing inaccurate propaganda pieces under the aegis of “academic studies.” Especially since Dreier is a doubleplusgood duckspeaker of left-wing “academic” orthodoxy.Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407) — 10/23/2009 @ 8:31 am
Killing ACORN is going to require a crucifix, some garlic and plenty of stakes driven directly through it’s cold, cold heart. The MSM has failed to note that although their gov’t funding is set to expire at the end of this month, the Dems are fully expected to introduce legislation to re – fund their operations immediately.Dmac (5ddc52) — 10/23/2009 @ 8:49 am
Since Peter Dreier is a professor of politics at Occidental College, which Obama attended, it would be interesting to find out if Dreier ever had Obama as a student.Official Internet Data Office (203a2f) — 10/23/2009 @ 8:53 am
Bradley – Shouldn’t Dreier’s relationship with ACORN and its affiliates be disclosed by the paper?JD (d16764) — 10/23/2009 @ 9:02 am
We wouldn’t want objectivity and the facts to get in the way of Obama’s and the LA Time’s narrative.Rochf (ae9c58) — 10/23/2009 @ 9:02 am
I saw his piece too, and I kept wondering under which rock has he been hiding for the past few months?
Academia, Viktor, he’s been living under the rock called academia.JVW (d1215a) — 10/23/2009 @ 9:14 am
Bradley – Shouldn’t Dreier’s relationship with ACORN and its affiliates be disclosed by the paper?
Any ethical, accurate newspaper would do so.Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (592a1f) — 10/23/2009 @ 9:16 am
The editor of the Los Angeles Times op-ed page probably assigned this piece to Dreier to defend ACORN, after being approached with the idea by Dreier.Official Internet Data Office (203a2f) — 10/23/2009 @ 9:16 am
You can always check “Rate My Professor” dot com. I’m no fan of that site, but you can read some interesting takes on Professor Dreier there.
But yes, he is an apologist for all things progressive, and wins the Flexible Yardstick Award for hypocrisy—given his statements about the behavior and ethics of people with “R”s after their names.Eric Blair (0b61b2) — 10/23/2009 @ 9:21 am
I can remember when Occidental College was a highly regarded small college in Eagle Rock (LA) with a football team and everything. I had friends there and went to parties there. I can’t imagine any parent who would send a kid there today.
It’s a shame.Mike K (addb13) — 10/23/2009 @ 9:29 am
Decisions have consequences. But, for fun, have a gander at their website, and in particular, their Critical Theory major. It explains a lot.
US News and World Reports still ranks them highly, though.Eric Blair (0b61b2) — 10/23/2009 @ 9:31 am
I figured it was my turn to bother Jamie Gold, so I sent her an email message asking about the non-dislosure of Dreier’s relationship with ACORN and his interesting version of the facts in this matter. I’ll let you know if I hear back.JVW (d1215a) — 10/23/2009 @ 9:33 am
Don’t hold your breath, JVW. It’s metatruth. Not actual truth.Eric Blair (0b61b2) — 10/23/2009 @ 9:36 am
It’s just news from a different reality. I wonder what our real news looks like over there, and what people think of it?htom (412a17) — 10/23/2009 @ 9:39 am
htom, I have the answer:
That is how it looks over there.Eric Blair (0b61b2) — 10/23/2009 @ 9:43 am
How much did the Slimes actually report on ACORN before they printed this editorial (I forget)? Is this one of the those things where comfortable west-side Slimes readers get most of their Slimes’ info on ACORN from People’s Educator Drier?MikeHu (e9e89c) — 10/23/2009 @ 9:51 am
All this stuff is interesting; but I could conclude that Dreier was bullshitting by reading a simple statement, i.e. “not a single person who signed a phony name on a registration statement ever actually voted.
Given that several hundreds of thousands of phony names were turned in, how can Dreier confidently make the statement that not a single of those “phony” voters ever actually voted?
You’d have to be gobsmackingly stupid to think that out of those hundreds of thousands, no one ever actually voted. But Dreier confidently makes the assertion realizing that it’s difficult to prove either way.Mike Myers (710e8b) — 10/23/2009 @ 10:47 am
How is it possible in a secret-ballot regime to prove that no-one who registered fraudulently had voted?
This assumes that one has captured the full set fraudulent registrations, that IDs are scrupulously examined at all polling places, that voters at polling places are marking one ballot each only*, and that all mail and absentee ballots are rigorously matched against diligently-scrubbed registration lists.
That’s assuming an awful lot. I smell red herring.
*one explanation the mystery of “dimpled chads” — trying to punch through two or more ballots at one time.furious (71af32) — 10/23/2009 @ 10:47 am
I urge all good conservatives and Republicans to act on Patterico’s “I know this is happening, despite the fact there is no evidence” and accost Hispanic voters at all polling stations.
Further, please make sure the Hispanic voters in question know you represent the GOP.
Just because there’s no proof and several DOJ prosecutors were canned because they couldn’t find it, is no reason for you guys to be less vigilant toward the quickest growing segment of the electorate!
Last national election, Hispanics voted 60+ for Democrats. Speaking as a person who favors Democratic policies to Republicans, your “vigilance” about crimes that don’t exist will really help us push that number into the 70’s!
in the end, I do support Patterico’s Prop 187 plan. I remember when California was competitive in national elections and I would rather not go back there!
Speaking for all liberals, we thank you for your help in stopping these undocumented crimes and driving voters to us.timb (449046) — 10/23/2009 @ 11:14 am
timb, it is a lie for you to claim that there is no evidence of illegal alien voting. Such has indeed been found such as in the investigation of the election of Loretta Sanchez.SPQR (26be8b) — 10/23/2009 @ 11:21 am
With regard to the stripping of Acorn funding resulting from the video you mention in this post:
Do you think a bill which was written as a result of a specific action and targeting a specific entity with changes that negatively affect that specific entity, is that not a bill of attainder?
Isn’t this a gross perversion of the function of the legislature?
As an active participant in the judicial system, aren’t you infuriated that the legislature would dare to assume what should be a prosecutorial function of the judicial branch? If not, why doesn’t it bother you?matt (f068b1) — 10/23/2009 @ 12:18 pm
SPQR, Loretta Sanchez-Brixey wouldn’t break the law. Err…I still have the “Loretta Loves Anaheim” campaign sign when she was a Republican running for City Council that she didn’t pick up after the election as required by California Law.
This was before Bill Press got a hold of her to hone her racist politics. I remember that Loretta demanded the HISPANIC Seat on Anaheim’s City Council. Too bad she didn’t notice the Hispanic Cop sitting on the council when she made that demand.PCD (1d8b6d) — 10/23/2009 @ 12:33 pm
#31, Patterico hasn’t responded so I’ll offer an observation.
matt asked, “Isn’t this a gross perversion of the function of the legislature?”
Why don’t you ask the majority Democrats in Congress who voted to strip ACORN’s funding. They might be able to answer your questions.ropelight (2db5c9) — 10/23/2009 @ 12:41 pm
Not only should ACORN be stripped of all city, state, and federal funding, their personnel should be indicted, tried, and jailed for the MAX when found guilty of fraud, tax evasion, voter registration fraud, and identity theft.PCD (1d8b6d) — 10/23/2009 @ 12:41 pm
I think Matt is right. It is not a question about ACORN’s illegal actions (or illegal actions by people in that organization) – the question is whether the Congress can take specific action against one organization.
Don’t get me wrong, I would like any wrongdoers charged (and hopefully convicted, sentenced, jailed). But isn’t that a law-enforcement role?
Congress could pass a law that organizations found to be corrupt cannot receive gov’t money (as if we need to have yet another law) – but such an organization should not exist (for very long) if the Judicial Branch was doing its job.Corwin (ea9428) — 10/23/2009 @ 12:48 pm
The legislature allocates funds to organizations. Those funds are not a right. When the legislature decides to withhold funds because they don’t like what is being done with the money (or the consequences of giving that money to shady organizations, which is the case here), it is perfectly appropriate. They are not usurping either the Judicial or Executive Branches by doing so. By your reasoning, Congress could never reduce funding for the military or NASA unless those organizations were convicted of something by the Judicial Branch. The system doesn’t work that way.Stashiu3 (44da70) — 10/23/2009 @ 12:58 pm
Corwin in #35 above says that an institution that was found to be corrupt would not exist for very long if the judiciary was doing its job.
Then how pray tell does Congress continue to exist? There’s a corrupt organization if ever there was one.Mike Myers (710e8b) — 10/23/2009 @ 1:10 pm
matt, that’s a silly definition of “bill of attainder”.SPQR (26be8b) — 10/23/2009 @ 1:18 pm
No, not the guy from The Untouchables. The “Racketeer Influenced Corrupt Organization” act.mojo (8096f2) — 10/23/2009 @ 1:40 pm
Speaking for all liberals, we thank you for your help in stopping these undocumented crimes and driving voters to us.
Comment by timb
Tim knows very well that, if illegal voting and vote fraud really were stopped, his party would be in big trouble. I grew up in Chicago.Mike K (addb13) — 10/23/2009 @ 1:45 pm
“Prolly Bush’s fault.”
Comment by JD — 10/23/2009 @ 8:01 am
Of COURSE it was Bush’s fault, and Cheny’s and Nixon’s and Agnew’s and Reagan’s… damn JD, don’t you know NUTTIN? 🙂GM Roper (85dcd7) — 10/23/2009 @ 1:51 pm
Timmah is throwing his asspulls around like fact-y things again. There have been convictions and charges all over the country, but as long as the leftists can continue to stick their fingers in their ears and cover their eyes while wailing RACIST at the other side, all is good.JD (30371c) — 10/23/2009 @ 1:58 pm
It’s ironic, really. When a few Republicans do something bad, it is an indictment of the system to the Progressive Left.
But when a bunch of people on the Left do something bad…well, that’s different!Eric Blair (0b61b2) — 10/23/2009 @ 2:00 pm
Not only is it different, Eric, they just squeal that it never happened. They deny facts in favor of Teh Narrative.JD (30371c) — 10/23/2009 @ 2:04 pm
The “here” links to a study containing the following lines:
Nowhere in the study or editorial do we learn of the author’s leadership position on the board of an ACORN published journal.
Now that’s independant and transparent…DOuglas2 (62fec6) — 10/23/2009 @ 2:10 pm
Wasn’t it recently reported that the state of Nevada was going to prosecute the entire NV ACORN organization? Not individuals for personal infractions, but, the organization as a whole. As far as Dreier, he may want to wait until Breitbart is actually done. Then he can lie again.sybilll (7a108e) — 10/23/2009 @ 2:21 pm
[…] in the US… …when in order to defend ACORN, a columnist has to resort to simply turning a blind eye to the facts. Peter Dreier’s op-ed about ACORN in the L.A. Times is so filled with inaccuracies it’s hard to […]Things must be bad for the left in the US… « Something should go here, maybe later. (ea9e19) — 10/23/2009 @ 2:23 pm
#5 JD’s comment is spot on: Any errors by the LA Times are 100% totally Bush’s fault. For turning progessive America into a right-wing gulag regime worse than Hitler. I know this because Tom Morello and Michael Stipe and Ed Vedder say so.
It’s Cheney’s fault too. And that scary Paul Wolf guy. Theyre all like, total warmongers, and if, like you disagree then you are obviously racist.Mike D (b28b9d) — 10/23/2009 @ 3:15 pm
Speaking of news media malpractice, the historians did their share.
During the final days of the 1990 election in Nicaragua, ABC News released the results of a poll showing the ruling Sandinista Party ahead by 16 percentage points. “For the Bush Administration and the Reagan Administration before it, the poll hints at a simple truth: After years of trying to get rid of the Sandinistas, there is not much to show for their efforts,” Peter Jennings gravely informed his viewers. But a few days later, the Sandinistas lost — by 14 percentage points. The “simple truth” was really that the poll, like so much of what ABC and other American news media outlets had been reporting from Nicaragua for the previous decade, was utterly, dumbfoundingly, whoppingly wrong. But if you think that triggered a frenzy of soul searching at ABC — about how the poll could have been so mistaken, about how none of the network’s reporters sensed anything askew — then guess again. Instead, Jennings dismissed the subject the next day with a single smirking reference to the inscrutability of Nicaraguans.
It’s not a new phenomenon. LIncoln had copperhead newspapers but the difference is that now they are all copperheads.Mike K (addb13) — 10/23/2009 @ 4:00 pm
As Stashiu3 notes above, the legislature can decide to fund a venture, and they can decide to defund or even unfund it.
You, however, cannot be made to appear to be an intelligent lifeform.
/Here’s a hint: stay away from expounding about simple concepts that are beyond your grasp.EW1(SG) (edc268) — 10/23/2009 @ 5:16 pm
“I urge all good conservatives and Republicans to act on Patterico’s “I know this is happening, despite the fact there is no evidence” and accost Hispanic voters at all polling stations.”
Anecdote: A friend who worked the polls in Dallas was told by one of the voters, who was a friend and neighbor, *on election day*, of some ‘good news’ – they passed their English test for citizenship! This anecdote is more remarkable in this respect. The non-citizen neighbor said this in the polling place and was clearly not someone who was even aware they were breaking the law. They were not accosted, nor was what they did ever tracked, marked or litigated as an example of ‘voter fraud’. Just one example of a non-citizen voting and getting away with it un-noticed.
Not only do non-citizens vote, but the claim that there is no evidence for vote fraud is absurd:
“For 14 years, the conspirators engaged in practices that included:
the forgery of voter registration cards with the names of fictitious persons, the filing of these cards with the Board of Elections, [and] the recruitment of people to cast multiple votes on behalf of specified candidates using these forged cards or the cards of deceased and other persons.
The grand jury explained that “the ease and boldness with which these fraudulent schemes were carried out shows the vulnerability of our entire electoral process to unscrupulous and fraudulent manipulation.””
http://www.rottenacorn.com/activityMap.htmlTravis Monitor (e991bc) — 10/23/2009 @ 5:32 pm
2007 A man in Reynoldsburg was indicted on two felony counts of illegal voting and false registration, after being registered by ACORN to vote in two separate counties.
I promised earlier that I would report back what I heard regarding my inquiry to the Reader’s Representative. I got a message saying that she had forwarded my email on to the editors. We’ll see if anything comes of it.JVW (caba47) — 10/23/2009 @ 5:35 pm
“What occurred was voter registration fraud, not voter fraud, and it was ACORN that exposed the wrongdoing in the first place.”
This guy is on the ACORN board and lies like a rug about it, and the LA Times wont even fess up his real connections?!? This is like the LA Times having a Mafia Don write an op-ed defending the mafia by pointing out how the ‘streets are clean and safe where we operate’.
ACORN wrongdoing in abuse of election laws is nationwide and pervasive.
http://www.rottenacorn.com/activityMap.htmlTravis Monitor (e991bc) — 10/23/2009 @ 5:39 pm
Dammit, wrong link in my comment above from 5:35 pm. Here is the correct one.JVW (caba47) — 10/23/2009 @ 6:00 pm
in the end, I do support Patterico’s Prop 187 plan.
I voted against Proposition 187. But thanks for making an incorrect assumption; it’s instructive.Patterico (64318f) — 10/23/2009 @ 6:10 pm
Respect. timb knows about this stuff because he’s an election judge, or something.daleyrocks (718861) — 10/23/2009 @ 8:03 pm
I know this because Tom Morello and Michael Stipe and Ed Vedder say so.
Tom Morello isn’t so great. I have kicked his ass in Guitar Hero duels more than once.Patterico (64318f) — 10/23/2009 @ 8:46 pm
I saw Tom Morello in 2004 at a Rock Against Bush concert with Anti-Flag. The latter kicked butt. Bore-llo was stupefyingly dull and preachy.Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (a0996d) — 10/23/2009 @ 8:58 pm
[…] I posted about an L.A. Times op-ed by Peter Dreier, who wrote that only two ACORN offices engaged in […]Patterico’s Pontifications » L.A. Times Fails to Disclose that Author of Fact-Challenged Pro-ACORN Op-Ed Has Been ACORN Consultant (e4ab32) — 10/24/2009 @ 7:50 am
Yeah, Patrick, I made a direct allegation you supported 187!
Jesus, that’s a ridiculous assertion.
Fact is, you asserted illegal aliens vote in high numbers and, since there is no proof that this actually happens in numbers high enough to influence an election (ask David Iglesius….hell, ask the Supreme Court in the Crawford v Marion County decision), I am eager for you and your followers to put this plan in motion. In action, your plan would have the same effect that Prop 187 did. Which is why I called it “Patterico’s Prop 187 plan.” The willful mis-reading of plain English is one of the coolest things about Internet!
As for JD, provide a link, jackalope, or shut up. Your own AG’s office couldn’t show substantive voter fraud had EVER taken place in Indiana, and, although Travis is able to point us to 2 votes here and 5 votes here, voter fraud is only effective when the election workers or counters are on the take. Now, I don’t expect you to know that, dj, ’cause you’re not very smart and your only argument is via ad hominem. But you could ask Landslide Lyndon’s ghost….that is, if you literate enough about politics or history to know what Landslide Lyndon refers to.
Don’t worry, most of the others here are smarter than you. Logic boy is as full of rage and hate as you are, and presuming he can remove his nose from Jennifer Rubin’s bum for a moment, he can look it up and explain it to you.
SP, use small words, ’cause dj is 8 kinds of stupid.timb (449046) — 10/24/2009 @ 8:58 am
Tim, did you flunk the Bar again ? What is this rage you have against your betters ?
Patrick, you’d better fess up. I think Tim was in that voting booth with you and knows all about it. He has superhuman powers of intellect and the rest of us should just turn this blog over to him and quietly sit here while he instructs us.Mike K (addb13) — 10/24/2009 @ 9:37 am
Hate hate hate, all the time. That’s all he’s got, Mike. That, and being creepy.JD (4249e2) — 10/24/2009 @ 9:50 am
Looks like our host has another love – struck stalker. This should end well.Dmac (5ddc52) — 10/24/2009 @ 11:19 am
I see timb is doubling down by misrepresentation again.SPQR (26be8b) — 10/24/2009 @ 5:46 pm
[…] pounced. First, he debunked the obvious misstatements to be detailed shortly. He then documented Dreier’s undisclosed ACORN relationship (I suspect […]BizzyBlog (f24158) — 10/24/2009 @ 8:31 pm
Point to one…with reason and logic.timb (449046) — 10/26/2009 @ 6:24 am
It’s frightening to think the person who wrote has a medical license! Fact: I made it clear that I did NOT claim Patrick voted for 187. Mike then reacts by claiming I said he did. Like I said in the post Mike apparently neglected to read before commenting on it: the willful mis-reading of plain English is entertaining.
PS You do not wear sycophancy well.timb (449046) — 10/26/2009 @ 6:35 am
Or, he had a point that you once again made a fact-free accusation you could not back up. Jesus, doesn’t being bone-headed stupid EVER get old?
To spell it out, you claim I made stuff up. I asked you to produce a link showing massive voter fraud. You could not. That means you were wrong…again. Don’t be worried, Karl Rove is much smarter than you are and he couldn’t find it either.
Nonetheles, if you don’t mind a quick hint: If you do not have a rational counter-point to make when I post a comment, then don’t comment. One of the more learned folks will attempt a rebuttal and you can go just go “yeah, what he/she said”.
I know, I know, you want to play at the grown ups table, but you can’t. We’re talking about things you can’t understand: politics, history, society, etc. Why don’t you go back over to Goldstein’s shack and write more about Obama’s thesis?timb (449046) — 10/26/2009 @ 6:45 am
Still stalking, huh?JD (867246) — 10/26/2009 @ 6:50 am
Seriously, timb, do you know the definition of “Lyndon Lightning”?
And as for “just a few votes” being fraudulent not being important…well, there were lots and lots of Progressive Democrats who felt that was an important issue indeed in 2000. And partisan-wielded flexible yardsticks aside, shrugging off any voter fraud is more than a little shameful.
Finally you were indeed trying to smear Patterico, and yet you complain that others insult you?
There are many ways to argue. You say you not respect insult. So why do it? Because someone else did first, or at all?Eric Blair (d56ecf) — 10/26/2009 @ 6:50 am
timb,Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (b78aad) — 10/26/2009 @ 6:51 am
Nobody here believes you except your fellow trolls. Claiming to bask in rationality when all you do is post (badly reasoned) talking points and lies doesn’t change that.
timb is in panic mode. His Messiah’s approval ratings are in the toilet.
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Monday shows that 29% of the nation’s voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Forty-one percent (41%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -12
timb, click here for a picture even you can understand.Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (b78aad) — 10/26/2009 @ 7:01 am
Jeez, folks, did you get Mr. Ehrenstein’s latest race baiting at #2? He seems to be in Eternal Moderation, which his behavior in the past richly merits, and which I would bet serious money he feels is due to racism.
The fact is, “ACORN” isn’t Republican for “not knowing your place.” It should be everyone’s “corrupt organization that doesn’t bat an eye at the importation of underaged female sex slaves from overseas.”
I do not understand people defending that organization. If I didn’t know better, I would call such fact-challenged actions “racialist.”Eric Blair (dd11cc) — 10/26/2009 @ 7:45 am
Actually, Bradley, these new polls have given me new insights into “Hope and Change.”Eric Blair (dd11cc) — 10/26/2009 @ 7:47 am
timb – The above quote was the starting point for this discussion. Facts, which you did not and cannot refute.
You chose to take Patterico’s common-sense opinion, and go on your rant about how the GOP hates Latinos and your bizarre Patterico’s Prop 1987 plan.
He did nothing of the sort. He said it was his common sense opinion that given the large number of illegals that engage in other activities, it seems obvious that some also vote, especially given the large numbers.
Then you engaged in some goal-post moving about the Indiana AG, and how vote fraud can only be effective if done on a large scale, neither of which are at issue here. But, we get it that you do not like the ID of the horrible imposition it is on people to prove who they are by means of a picture ID. Quelle horror!
As is usually the case, we are treated to a blizzard of asspulls, random goal-post moving, and general creepiness. Thanks for being consistent.JD (462660) — 10/26/2009 @ 7:48 am
If “Oriental” is politically incorrect, and now we have to say “asian,” how can Occidental College even exist? Isn’t that racist for “western,” which is code for Western Civ, which is a bunch of racist white guys? Is Peter Drier teaching at some oppressive patriarchy thingie?carlitos (572728) — 10/26/2009 @ 7:55 am
I dare you to call Better Half “Oriental”, carlitos 😉JD (462660) — 10/26/2009 @ 7:57 am
OH MY GOD, you tried! How absolutely cute. Sure, you tried to show that one dude casting a fraudulent vote exonerates Patterico’s fact-less based assertion, which was this
He KNOWS it’s true despite the lack of evidence , because….well, he knows!
I’m not arguing the editorial, dj. It has some minor flaws. I arguing the flaws in the post, where an assertion not based upon anything more than a right wing myth, is submitted as an indictment against ACORN.
I’m so giddy that you tried. That you failed is more testimony to the fact you pick the wrong heroes. That’s okay. It’s who you are, a simple Manichean, right is right, left is wrong kind of tool.
To say that that one comment of yours made up for the thousands of needlessly aggressive and silly insults you have hurled at everyone who disagrees with you is an overstatement. But, dammit, it was nice to see you try to be an adult. If you keep trying…well, maybe one day you will have an independent thought. Now, I won’t guarantee that, but it could be a solid aspiration for you.timb (449046) — 10/27/2009 @ 6:20 am
Brad, do you know ANYONE, besides you and Karl and Rush, who pay attention to Rasmussen during off-years? Especially, the daily tracking poll, which is self-selecting and highly suspect?
It would take several tetrabytes of posts to explain to you, once again, that your cartoon of Obama-ites behaving as like Republicans did to Bush after 9/11 is wrong.
But, still, if I can be brief…The President has pissed me off in the following areas: torture, Gitmo, wiretapping, rendition, Bagram, bank bailouts, lack of financial service reform, refusal to push for single payer, refusal to demand “robust” public option, refusal to aggressively push something better than cap and trade, in the absence of anything better the refusal to push cap and trade, inability to formulate coherent Af-Pak strategy, no repeal of tax cuts for oil companies, no taking on Big Pharma, failure to push for changes to the “Patriot Act,” failure to push for Congressional and DOJ investigations into a regime which turned my country into Pinochet’s Chile, failure to create an administration not beholden to Goldman Sachs…
I could go on. Point is, I have plenty disagreements with the President and I apologize if you count on Rasmussen’s internet polls for your “hope and change.” I’d pay attention to 538.com or even real clear politics if I were you, instead of outlying, self-selecting, internet polls, designed to make Scott Rasmussen some cash in off years.timb (449046) — 10/27/2009 @ 6:49 am
Shorter timb: Obama hasn’t gone far enough leftward.
Thankfully, timb is not president.BJTexs (a2cb5a) — 10/27/2009 @ 6:54 am
timb, you are fact-less, clue-less, truth-less, and a total lying waste of time.
Maybe when Rangel get his idea of universal service enacted, you’ll experience Marine Boot camp and then deployment to some 3rd world hellhole that will shock you into sanity.PCD (1d8b6d) — 10/27/2009 @ 6:55 am
Brad, do you know ANYONE, besides you and Karl and Rush, who pay attention to Rasmussen during off-years?
You mean, highly suspect since it isn’t going well for your man in the White House? Other polls have shown The Messiah dropping too, I guess you also ignore them because you don’t like the message.
It would take several tetrabytes of posts to explain to you, once again, that your cartoon of Obama-ites behaving as like Republicans did to Bush after 9/11 is wrong.
Selective memory is such a wonderful thing, isn’t it, timb?Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407) — 10/27/2009 @ 6:59 am
The lightest goal posts that we install weigh slightly over 1100 pounds. timmah must be strong to run around with them like that all the time.JD (959071) — 10/30/2009 @ 10:07 am
[…] Peter Dreier wrote a fact-challenged op-ed claiming that Giles and O’Keefe had received assistance at only two ACORN offices. (The […]Patterico's Pontifications » Patterico’s Los Angeles Dog Trainer Year in Review 2009 (e4ab32) — 1/1/2010 @ 11:08 am