Patterico's Pontifications


Obama in Montana

Filed under: Obama — DRJ @ 6:17 pm

[Guest post by DRJ]

President Obama appeared at a health care town hall event in Montana today where he faced more tame questions, with two exceptions. Here’s the first question:

“One questioner, an NRA member, called on POTUS for more information about how he’ll pay for health care legislation. Obama acknowledged he might raise taxes, but said he wouldn’t burden the middle class: “We’ve got to get over this notion that you can have something for nothing.”

Now which recent Presidential candidate was responsible for nonsense like saying we should spread the wealth around? Oh, yeah.

Here’s the second semi-tough question for Obama:

“POTUS also got quizzed by a health insurance salesman, who asked why the White House was training its fire on his industry and working to “vilify” insurers. Obama said that’s not what he’s trying to do: “If my intent was to vilify them, we’d be saying private insurance has no place in the health care market.”

Hmmm. In his own words: “But I don’t think we’re gonna be able to eliminate employer coverage immediately. There’s gonna be potentially some transition process.” [EDIT: And other quotes at the link.]


71 Responses to “Obama in Montana”

  1. As a former Montanan, seeing Obama put on that ridiculous dog-and-pony show made me sick. But it was nice to see Obama admit that taxes will have to be raised if his health care Bolshevization bill passes. Kudos to the NRA member for standing up to Obama, but I wonder if he will soon be on a White House enemies list.

    Mike LaRoche (63288a)

  2. You have been flagged, Mr. LaRoche.

    Barcky really complained about this notion that you can have something for nothing?

    JD (2e1461)

  3. NPR breaks new ground in the health care discussion by teasing out the stark reality that you can’t miss seeing what the dirty socialist media shows you.

    If you’ve been anywhere near a TV in the past week, you have seen images of irate voters berating their elected representatives. And if so, you cannot have missed the strong representation of vociferous Caucasian males of a certain age. Theirs are not the only voices raised, but they are surely the loudest and most numerous.

    Some Democrats believe the virulence of the protests will be distasteful enough to moderates and swing voters that it will help the president achieve his vision of health care change. Perhaps. But the first impulse of conservative opinion leaders has been to exult over the town hall phenomenon, and Republican leaders have followed in train.

    This is a very good story I think especially cause I love reading about myself, exultant right-wing bigot. I just can’t help wondering why NPR doesn’t focus more on the horrific unemployment rates among minorities so maybe I could understand more better that there are other people in America what might have cause for grievance more better than me, exultant right-wing bigot.

    But for real I wonder what this NPR twit would do if he ever encountered, you know, actual high-octane rage. That would be like uber super-racisty I bet.

    exultant right-wing bigot (42470c)

  4. But there’s a difference between the employer-based insurance market and the personal insurance market, and I believe the questioner specified that he sold private insurance. We DO need to move away from an employer-based system. That quote of Obama’s isn’t really that bad, but it’s proven in other quotes that he does ultimately want a single-payer system.

    Obama still can’t get over this idea of his that supports his desire to eliminate private charity so that the federal government can have control of all domestic social welfare spending in the nation. He totally wants to starve churches so he can keep expanding AmeriCorps.

    Dan M. (f80a0c)

  5. I agree there is a difference, Dan M, and there are also more Obama quotes at the link that indicate he wants universal health care. I’ll add a note to make that more clear.

    DRJ (cabca2)

  6. We’ve not had such a brazen liar in the White House since Clinton … and I think at times that Obama is even more brazen than Bill.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  7. You have to understand that Baracky doesn’t actually know any average Americans; he supposes and believes–thanks to Mom and all his leftist mentors since–that we are all ignorant doofuses and will buy whatever warmed-over campaign crap he serves up in these faux town halls or in the halls of Congress. That can take a man so far in 21st century America and not one bit further.

    His is a failure of imagination, as wide and deep as any Soviet apparatchik’s.

    It’s a shock to him to be confronted by real people with real questions of substance that he cannot answer. He thought they were all out en masse drinking moonshine or singing hallelujiah in church! Hey, wasn’t the campaign enough? Go back to sleep, he is begging us. Not a chance.

    Patricia (29a01d)

  8. Does anyone get taken in by these Obama kabuki shows? Does anyone believe these audiences aren’t carefully screened?

    This man is a snakeoil salesman. Elmer Gantry move over.

    Thomas Jackson (8ffd46)

  9. What we need is government fast food joints. McDonalds and Taco Bell should be able to compete with the free food given out at Obama King food joint if their food is good enough. If they go out of business it will just prove that Obama King burgers were better.

    j curtis (baef6f)

  10. I’m moving to Montana.
    Gonna be a dental floss tycoon

    SteveG (97b6b9)

  11. “We’ve got to get over this notion that you can have something for nothing.”

    Fine, then leave us alone when we don’t want the “something.”

    Jim Treacher (796deb)

  12. “… Barack Obama will require you to work….that you move out of your comfort zones, that you push yourselves to be better, and that you engage. Barack will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual – uninvolved, uninformed.”

    He’s also gonna take some of your pie for his big dirty socialist dreams and spread the wealth around through inefficient government programs and discourage private enterprise. Pretty soon we’ll be as fucked up as Europe if all goes according to Barcky’s plan.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  13. “We’ve got to get over this notion that you can have something for nothing.”

    That’s hilarious coming from an ultra-liberal like Obama. Such people truly love promoting ideas, programs and causes based on the belief that do-gooderism and compassion (hollow or otherwise) are so wonderful in their own right, they either come without a price tag or don’t deserve to trigger the question of “but who pays?!”

    Mark (411533)

  14. The football back-and-forth of these town halls is silly on both sides. While the left and the right knock heads, the insurance companies are making out like absolute bandits. I know you guys don’t want to see Mr. O win the day, and that’s reasonable, but we all know that the system isn’t working and the insurance lobbies are the only people out there who are loaded for bear and trying to get their legislation passed.

    I don’t care if Obama wins a popularity contest or not. It’s just depressing that while the lefties and the righties punch each other, the lobbyists actually get to make the law.

    Anyway, that’s my two bits. If you want to know more, come visit at

    Nick (d0b474)

  15. “While the left and the right knock heads, the insurance companies are making out like absolute bandits.”

    Nick – Hang around and tell us how the insurance companies are making out like bandits. Their profit margins seem pretty small.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  16. F*ck that sanctimonious BS, Nick. Kindly keep your dirty little socialism off of my family’s healthcare. Insurance – evil. Lobbyists that do not agree with me – evil. Such typical leftist drivel wrapped up in a feigned “a pox on both your houses” mealy-mouthed BS. Public option, my arse.

    JD (2f47e2)

  17. “We’ve got to get over this notion that you can have something for nothing.”

    Nick – I read your last blog post. It seems you think people should only pay for insurance when they are sick or something – like when their premiums won’t pay for the cost of their treatment. You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of insurance and expect something for nothing.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  18. That reminds me of the guys who pay workers comp…. for the week they had an accident.

    SteveG (97b6b9)

  19. Didn’t the name of his blog kind of give it away daleyrocks?

    JD (2f47e2)

  20. JD – Absolutely.

    If he paid for car insurance all year and didn’t have an accident, he would view the money as wasted and the insurance company as making out like a bandit.

    Sheer genius.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  21. “something for nothing”

    Yeah, right. They get the benefits, I get taxed. That’ll show them freeloaders!

    Kevin Murphy (3c3db0)

  22. If he paid for car insurance all year and didn’t have an accident, he would view the money as wasted and the insurance company as making out like a bandit.

    And if he did have an accident, but they only gave him $9,000 for his $10,000 loss, he’d consider himself ill-used.

    Of course, with a public option, I bet you that folks WILL sign up for insurance after they get sick — and get it no problem. Community rating plus guaranteed acceptance.

    Obese smoker and alcoholic diabetic, 53 years old, HIV+? No problem. You’ll have to pay double a 19-year-old marathoner though. (righteous screaming ensues)

    Kevin Murphy (3c3db0)

  23. Makes you wonder if certain diseases will be covered differently….such as Sickle Cell and Tay-Sachs….

    (aside to JD….I feel a condemnation coming on)…

    reff (ee9f7a)

  24. “Obese smoker and alcoholic diabetic, 53 years old, HIV+? No problem.”

    Don’t you judge him! We’re talking social justice here.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  25. Few things:

    1) Politifact rightly calls out Obama that insurance companies aren’t making ‘record’ profits — but that same article says that “the profits are significant, no question about it.” This is why insurance companies are in there pumping money into both sides of the aisle. They don’t want the competition, because they’re earning just fine right now. They’re also practically slobbering over the possibility that they can deep-six the public option (bad for business) AND they’ll get an individual mandate (that requires everyone to have insurance, which is very good for business). Every dollar of their profit is a dollar we’re not spending on our own health care.

    2) I think you guys are missing the way the insurance companies work, a little bit — they don’t make money unless they take more in premiums and copays than they give out in care. But WE PAY UP FRONT. By the time we figure out that they’re going to deny us coverage for something we need (and have already paid for), they’ve already snorted/shot up/drank down the money we paid them. And rescission — which means insurance companies dropping their own paying customers — happens to everyone, not just poor people. Unless you’ve got the scratch for a lot a lot of lawyers, you’re exactly one illness from bankruptcy.

    3) I understand the unwillingness to pay for health care for people who don’t work, or who abuse their bodies — but that’s exactly what we do in the present system. Instead of admitting it and manning up about it, we force all of them to go to the tremendously expensive ER. Nobody in the United States is ever refused medical care at a hospital ER — it’s illegal — and the costs shifted from that are the reason the rest of us are paying $8K per hospital visit. We could be sending these same people to doctors for lots, lots less.

    I know you guys are treating this as a referendum on the Obama administration, but he’ll be gone in four or eight years no matter what — we could be stuck with our current health care system for decades if we don’t make some changes.

    Nick (d0b474)

  26. There is no we. The dirty socialists want change they own change. End of story. I hope they fail.

    happyfeet (42470c)

  27. Nick, there’s a difference between some modest reforms that may be needed and the radical restructuring Obama proposes.

    The patient needs his tonsils removed, and Obama plans on rearranging the limbs.

    Kevin Murphy (3c3db0)

  28. “I think you guys are missing the way the insurance companies work”

    Nick – You would be wrong. I was in the business at a very high level. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the risks which guaranteed issue and community rating bring to insurance companies. More premiums do not guarantee profit if the risks aren’t priced correctly. Do some reading on the subject. There was a good post on this subject yesterday on this blog.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  29. B.O walked among us unwashed and went back to his elitists friends at their cocktail party in San Fran and said we were a bitter people who clung to our guns and religion. And the Dems didn’t know he was including them.
    They don’t listen to all his friends who hate whites. And the other races don’t know they are going to be as bad off as we are. Does anyone beleve he will make it better for blacks who are without jobs. Or Mexicans? This is all about elitism. Why are all the abortion clinics in poor neighborhoods? It is mostly black babies who are being aborted. He doesn’t care anymore about them than he does us. Does any dictator care about the poor in their country? Do they care about human rights?

    Myke (9d1bb3)

  30. 2) I think you guys are missing the way the insurance companies work, a little bit — they don’t make money unless they take more in premiums and copays than they give out in care.


    I did read your whole post but I kind of stopped taking you seriously right here. If you think copays are paid to the insurance companies then I can’t imagine you know much at all about how insurance works.

    Went over to your blog also, to see if this was just a misspeak. Was sorry to see more errors over there. You claim that if you’re too sick to work you can’t get insurance. This is simply not true. I know a good number of people who are too sick to work. They receive “disability” assistance, and many young but disabled people qualify for (already existing) Medicare – IMO those two are very good safety nets for people who want to work but can’t, and need care.

    no one you know (1ebbb1)

  31. A frustrating thing in talking to liberals on subjects like this is so few of them actually know anything about business or economics, just like their elected representatives in Washington. They sure tend to have FEELINGS, though, hate them some corporations, and want somebody else to pay for their expenses. The game doesn’t seem to change, but the subject does. The Democrats are truly the idiot party.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  32. To “no one” — you’re right. I shifted copays, where the insurance company decreases its own outlay, into the ‘credit’ column along with premiums, even though copay money isn’t actually sent to the insurance company. It’s certainly a writing error, but in this case doesn’t change the basic flowchart — we pay the insurance companies, and then they pay our doctors and hospitals less.

    daleyrocks — the last thing I expected to see on a conservative blog was an actual insurance executive shilling for his industry. You and your type have a pretty strong track record of lying to and abusing your customers, so I’m going to respectfully focus my conversation on others.

    Kevin — you make an excellent point — how much reform is necessary? Is this too much? And this is where there are lots and lots of negotiations to be made. I think that a public option is very different from socialized medicine, and hits a good middle spot between socialism, which I think Americans are unwilling to consider, and completely unregulated industry, which I think most people agree is bad for health outcomes and creates a cost burden.

    For instance, “no one” supports Medicare and Medicaid (heh, just read that back to myself. At least one person, whose calls himself “no one”, supports Medicaid…)– these are already ‘cost-shifting’ measures where taxpayers pay for insurance for other people. But we still have tens of millions of Americans without health insurance, and health care bills are the number one cause of bankruptcy. So something else has to happen.

    Nick (d0b474)

  33. Nick – do you have a newsletter I can sign up for?

    steve miller (c5e78c)

  34. 1. What gives the government the RIGHT to take over an industry?
    2. No organization is perfect – not insurance industries, not the medical profession, not lawyers, and certainly not the government. Which ones of these can be changed by choice, and which one of these always grabs for more power?
    3. This reform is akin to someone going to the doctor because he has a scratch and the doctor removing an arm to give to a neighbor.
    4. Name the areas where the government does things efficiently, swiftly, and economically.
    5. Imagine a hospital emergency room. Imagine the federal post office. Which do you like better? And will making the hospital emergency room an arm of the federal government make it more or less like the post office?

    steve miller (c5e78c)

  35. Since when did dirty socialists care about people going into bankruptcy anyway? When dirty socialists start being mindful of the profits of their client industries to where they don’t want to see potential revenues discharged then I think they’ve taken a healthy step towards fascism.

    Bankruptcy is almost always driven by insufficient income. Barack Obama’s punitive dirty socialist health taxes aren’t going to help with that. Not a bit.

    happyfeet (42470c)

  36. The CBO – that arm of the Republican Party – admits that Teh One™ is simply making it up that the proposed seizure of private enterprise will be more efficient and cost-effective.

    Making things up.

    Teh One™ says doctors make $50k on a tonsillectomy. Not even close–but no one seems to think that this is a lie. Even though it is. (Repeating a falsity after you’re shown that it’s false is not a mistake–it’s a lie.)

    Teh ONe™ has the pharmacy industry in his pocket–his administration admits they’ve co-opted them, and the pharmacy industry is now going to run ads in favor of the bills–but this is somehow not seen as astroturfing because the “righteous” are doing it.

    This guy does not know how things work – not the economy, not people, not governments, and certainly not the Constitution (czar, anyone?), but he proposes to unilaterally usurp his constitutional authority to take over another industry. And libruls are OK with the abrogation of law and the Constitution because it accomplishes their goals. Ends and means don’t have to agree if you’re a librul.

    steve miller (c5e78c)

  37. Nick – Are you part of Organizing for America?

    daleyrocks (718861)

  38. Nick – You’ve discredited yourself nicely so far. Insurance companies making out like bandits – no. Copays going to insurance companies – no. What exactly do you know?

    daleyrocks (718861)

  39. I don’t have a newsletter, but feel free to visit my blog (just click on my name). If you poke around, you can probably tell that I’m not part of a larger group, but it doesn’t matter if you believe me personally — check out my arguments for yourself, my sources, etc. At the very least, I think we can all agree that I don’t work for an insurance company. 🙂

    Steve — I’ve been to the emergency room precisely once in my life, where I sat (and waited and waited) between a tuberculosis patient (no kidding — a highly infectious disease in the waiting room) and a guy who had been in a fistfight. Neither one had a truly ’emergency-room’ problem — especially considering that this was the middle of the day, when doctors’ offices were open — and neither one had insurance. ERs are a weird combination of police precinct, homeless shelter, mental hospital, and triage station — I’ll level with you that I’d much rather go to the post office, and I’d much rather go to an ER that was responsible for emergency medicine alone — instead of one that is a wasteful, accidental social entitlement.

    And I agree with your second comment, in large part — I’m not entirely convinced that the pharmacy industry and the insurance industry aren’t helping to write policy. They have congresspeople on both sides of the aisle in their pocket and they can create a ‘consensus’ bill. Both industries are against a public option — which is not a government takeover of health care or health insurance, but healthy competition for industries that have too much power, too much cash, and too little oversight to completely dominate something like health care.

    And happyfeet — I have seen arguments that overconsumption (the same as underearning — spending more than you make) is a root cause of many bankruptcies, and because almost all the studies use self-reporting (people are not likely to admit that they spend too much) there’s no way to be precise — but there’s a lot of evidence that full-time working, middle-class Americans experience the following series of events:

    1) get real sick 2) can’t work, lose job, lose insurance 3) run out of COBRA, can’t get new insurance due to existing condition 4) incur massive medical bills 5) declare bankruptcy.

    The public option would prevent that — having at least one option in which your insurance isn’t dependent on your job. And you know, if the public option doesn’t end up being effective, it will just die on the vine because nobody will use it. Even its presence would be incentive for private insurers to cut their profit margins and shape up their acts.

    Nick (d0b474)

  40. Nick, however the evidence that full-time working, middle class Americans experience that [i]a lot[/i] does not exist.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  41. SPQR — the average out-of-pocket medical debt among bankrupt Americans is $12,000. That strikes me as a strong indicator — so although the evidence may not be sufficient in your opinion, it does actually exist.

    Nick (d0b474)

  42. Nick, the source of that faux statistic is a study that’s been debunked repeatedly. Its a bogus “study” with crude misrepresentations of the data. As a practitioner in bankruptcy, I’ve first hand experience in the issue and bankruptcies that are directly caused by medical expenses are not a large fraction of bankruptcies.

    Credit cards and job losses are the main causes of bankruptcy.

    You still don’t have a clue what the problem with the public option is.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  43. Why am I here amongst the douchey liars? My momma raised me better.

    No no no douchey liar Nick.

    Here is what that study found you stupid douchey liar.

    Among those whose illnesses led to bankruptcy, out-of-pocket costs averaged $11,854 since the start of illness.

    That is not talking about DEBT but is a survey of out-of-pocket costs. MORE IMPORTANTLY, douchey liar Nick, it’s an average of costs not only just among people who HAD costs (in 2001), but is a further subset of people who had costs AND later filed bankruptcy … which is a far far cry from being an average among all those who declared bankruptcy.

    I feel dirty hanging in a thread with douchey liar Nick I’m gonna take a shower and put the turtles out in the sun and clean until the Windows 7 guy gets here.

    Creepy douchey dirty socialist liars crawlin up mah leg.

    happyfeet (42470c)

  44. oh. here is a link what douchey liar Nick can click and click

    The more you know!

    happyfeet (42470c)

  45. “1) get real sick 2) can’t work, lose job, lose insurance 3) run out of COBRA, can’t get new insurance due to existing condition 4) incur massive medical bills 5) declare bankruptcy.”

    Nick – Why don’t you let us know out of Obama’s famous 47 million uninsured number what the number is who cannot actually purchase insurance due to preexisting medical conditions. Remember to strip out the illegal immigrants, those eligible for government aid programs who have for whatever reason not actually signed up, those who are healthy and above the threshold for government insurance programs who have voluntarily elected to forego purchasing health insurance, those between jobs who elected not to purchase COBRA, etc., and let us know how many people Obama is actually proposing to nationalize the health insurance industry to benefit.

    In terms of bankruptcy, can you compare the non-health care related debts in the situations of your link to that “non-partisan” organization? Which are largest?

    “And you know, if the public option doesn’t end up being effective, it will just die on the vine because nobody will use it.”

    Nick – If the public option is priced 20%+ below private insurance as Obama has indicated with the same set of minimum benefits, why would you expect nobody to use it?

    daleyrocks (718861)

  46. Nick – Why does Obama think Americans are stupid and not understand what he is trying to do?

    daleyrocks (718861)

  47. happyfeet, one of my favorite lines in that report is this: ““Any Medical Bankruptcy,” included debtors who cited any of the above, or addiction, or uncontrolled gambling, or birth, or the death of a family member.” emphasis added by me.

    Basically, I recently filed a bankruptcy case that had about $2500 in medical debt among nearly $75,000 in total debt. Those studies would call that bankruptcy as caused by medical debt … ignoring the fact that the debtor spent about 25% of his income every year at Las Vegas when he got his tax refund …

    SPQR (26be8b)

  48. Happyfeet seems to be right — the NCHC did take the original survey out of context, and got the facts wrong. The original survey, though, makes the exact same basic argument, and adds the additional point that these are overwhelmingly middle-class homeowners — workers — because really poor people have no assets to protect and no reason to bother with bankruptcy: they just default.

    Daleyrocks — To me, Obama doesn’t even really represent a strong public option — he seems sort of embarrassingly willing to drop it — what I don’t understand is why you think your fellow commentators are listening now that they know you work in the health insurance industry.

    And people will pay 20% more if they get better care from private insurers. The idea is competition — more than one style of coverage, rather than the current system, where it’s so hard to get insurance as an independent/freelancer/small business.

    I’m looking a little suspiciously at SPQR, too — what does it mean to work as a “practitioner in bankruptcy”? If you’re a repo man or a court clerk, I’m listening — if you’re a bankruptcy lawyer, maybe we need to be a little more rigorous when we check you out. You are certainly right, though, that I don’t get the problem with the public option — practically every industrialized nation on Earth has some version of government support for the health of their citizens, and I haven’t seen a single one that has tried out a public system, then abandoned it.

    Nick (d0b474)

  49. Nick, you don’t get it. The claims about the frequency of medical bankruptcy are bogus.

    The issue with the public option is that the government subsidizes it. Private insurance cannot compete where it can’t compel taxpayers to pay the bill.

    As for “every industrialized nation”, you evidently don’t know what you are talking about there either. Several nations depend upon schemes based on private insurance like France and Germany. Pay attention, you don’t have a clue what you are talking about.

    That those who have had single payer that have not abandoned it is hardly a sign in its favor. Single payer schemes like the UK’s NHS destroy private health care options so utterly that retreat is not feasible. (Although we are seeing signs in the most affluent corner of Britain of the vestiges of a return to a private insurance option because the British are so disgusted with NHS ).

    SPQR (26be8b)

  50. Still shaking my head at this, SPQR. You took money from this guy with a serious gambling addiction, and helped him shield himself from his self-inflicted debts? I mean, the survey’s got its problems, and all the metrics are going to be inexact, but you strike me as part of the problem.

    Nick (d0b474)

  51. Wait, so SPQR — you took money from this guy, then helped him shield his assets from debts that he caused himself? So really, in a system that caused large numbers of bankruptcies, you’d kind of, well, make out pretty good? The study’s not perfect and the metrics aren’t great, but I’m seeing a lot of people in this thread who profit directly from the broken system we’ve got.

    Nick (d0b474)

  52. …what I don’t understand is why you think your fellow commentators are listening now that they know you work in the health insurance industry.
    Comment by Nick — 8/15/2009 @ 2:02 pm

    We listen to him because he’s honest and expert, unlike yourself. You’re a shill for the public option (it’s even the name of your site) and pretend to be unbiased while questioning longtime and respected regulars.

    Bring your A-game next time you want to troll. I remember you spamming before (as was mentioned already) and you haven’t changed a bit. Still acting superior without any credibility of your own. What I don’t understand is why you think your fellow commentators are listening now that they know you’re a public-option shill.

    Stashiu3 (ed6467)

  53. Oops, double post. Probably a reminder for me to go finish the afternoon project — more when I get back tonight.

    Nick (d0b474)

  54. Nick, I see you’ve quickly returned to the belief that trying to slime others is a debate tactic. Ad hominem would be to make your cheap tactics sound more classy than they are.

    What I see in this thread is that you are full of opinions based on fraudulent “facts” and defended by trying to slime others.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  55. Still shaking my head at this, SPQR. You took money from this guy with a serious gambling addiction, and helped him shield himself from his self-inflicted debts?
    Comment by Nick — 8/15/2009 @ 2:17 pm

    It’s called a job… you may have heard of the concept. FYI, SPQR is another longtime, respected commenter here and most of us know what he does.

    Stashiu3 (ed6467)

  56. “To me, Obama doesn’t even really represent a strong public option”

    Nick – Obama thinks you’re stupid. You’re validating his point.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  57. I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m sick of this clown. Nick, here’s hoping you forget the web address when you try to return. Cheers.

    Stashiu3 (ed6467)

  58. Thanks for the props Stahiu3.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  59. There are doctors who want to see the insurance companies screwed. Lots of doctors. They don’t want to hear “I won’t pay you for that”. Or, “I won’t pay for that drug. What’s wrong with this drug?” They want a pile of money to reach into. And they (the doctors) don’t like their godhood questioned by some money-grubbing insurance flunky.

    And how come I know all that is none of your business.

    nk (c5a420)

  60. P.S. And they love Medicare. Medicare is a guaranteed income. They (the doctors) would like a better part D. But more than that, they would like every American to be on Medicare.

    nk (c5a420)

  61. Stashiu3, I’m very frustrated. As I believe most know, I try to keep my language off the gutter. But I’m having trouble coming up with a term for Nick that rises to my usual mediocre standards.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  62. Mm — couldn’t stay away, sorry.

    I’m not a ‘shill’, just a citizen who strongly supports a policy. I understand I got a little heated, and you’re right that ad hominem attacks won’t convince anybody.

    I won’t bother you guys further, except to say that I hope that both supporters and opponents of the public option can agree that we don’t want reform that enriches private insurance on the government dime, and that we do want reform. That seems, to me, like a place to start, and that’s where I’ll finish.

    Have a good day, all.

    Nick (d0b474)

  63. You’re a bad parody of an ObamaTard, Nick. End of story.

    And they love Medicare. Medicare is a guaranteed income.

    The doctors I’ve worked with HATE Medicare, and some have already opted out of that system (and/or won’t accept any new patients). Not only do they need a full – time staffer to handle all the paperwork, but Medicare has begun severely curtailing the amount of money they’ll pay out for many procedures that previously they had no problem with. Regardless, just another reason to kill this bill off.

    Dmac (e6d1c2)

  64. I can’t believe the folks who attack private industry for making a profit. We pay more for better quality goods, so most people are willing to pay more for superior healthcare.

    Those who wage class warfare are idiots who believe that the government can deliver better quality services. I have never met a leftwinger who could name one area of social services or administration where the government excels. Social security, AMTRAK, FCC, SEC, Medicare, Medicaid, Agriculture, Welfare, education?



    Thomas Jackson (8ffd46)

  65. health care reform is gay

    happyfeet (df08fc)

  66. Quite simply, we have a president who is an ignoramus and worse, a liar. I am ashamed for our country but mostly for how he was able to deceive 54+-% of the electorate. He deserves to go…now.

    robert boni (df3a17)

  67. I know Nick won’t be back amongst us unwashed, but what part of “The government screws up nearly everything it touches” does he not understand?

    Insurance companies that screw up go out of business (except, of course, if they donate to the Obama campaign).

    The government will never go out of business due to bad service.

    If the government decides that grandma should suffer with Tylenol instead of hip replacement surgery, then grandma, you’d better get a bigger medicine cabinet, ’cause you’re gonna be stocking up on lots of bottles.

    I know the obvious question is “Just how stupid does The One™ think we are?” but sadly, I think the answer is “pretty darn stupid.”

    steve miller (c5e78c)

  68. I think it’s Nick’s job to go to blogs and spew Obamacare propganders. No one in comments in real life ever says I’m not a ’shill’, just a citizen who strongly supports a policy … I comment like really a lot and I would have noticed if this was something real people say but they don’t. Phony lying dirty socialist douche. I weary of such peoples.

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  69. feets – Honesty is not a feature of dirty socialist Obamatards. They take after their Messiah.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  70. This was sent by a woman in Bozeman , MT who was there. I have no way of checking the accuracy of her report, but either the letter is genuine or someone is very good at creating a lot of detail in a down-home writing style.

    Hello All,

    By now you have probably heard that President Obama came to Montana last Friday. However, there are many things that the major news has not covered. I feel that since Bill and I live here and we were at the airport on Friday I should share some facts with you. Whatever you decide to do with the information is up to you. If you chose to share this email with others I do ask that you DELETE my email address before you forward this on.

    On Wednesday, August 5th it was announced locally that the President would be coming here. There are many groups here that are against his healthcare and huge spending so those groups began talking and deciding on what they were going to do. The White House would not release ANY details other than the date.

    On about Tuesday Bill found out that they would be holding the “Town Hall” at the airport. (This is only because Bill knows EVERYONE at the airport) Our airport is actually located outside of Belgrade (tiny town) in a very remote location. Nothing is around there. They chose to use a hangar that is the most remotely located hangar. You could not pick a more remote location, and you can not get to it easily. It is totally secluded from the public.

    FYI: We have many areas in Belgrade and Bozeman which could have held a large amount of folks with sufficient parking. (gymnasiums/auditoriums). All of which have chairs and tables, and would not have to be SHIPPED IN!! $$$$$ During the week, cargo by the TONS was being shipped in constantly. Airport employees could not believe how it just kept coming. Though it was our President coming several expressed how excessive it was, especially during a recession. $$$$$

    Late Tuesday/early Wednesday the 12th, they said that tickets would be handed out on Thursday 9am at two locations and the president would be arriving around 12:30 Friday.

    Thursday morning about 600 tickets were passed out. However, 1500 were printed at a Local printing shop per White House request. Hmmmm……900 tickets just DISAPPEARED.

    This same morning someone called into the radio from the local UPS branch and said that THOUSANDS of Dollars of Lobster were shipped in for Obama. Montana has some of the best beef in the nation!!! And it would have been really wonderful to help out the local economy. Anyone heard of the Recession?? Just think…with all of the traveling the White House is doing. $$$$$ One can only imagine what else we are paying for.

    On Friday Bill and I got out to the airport about 10:45am. The groups that wanted to protest Obama’s spending and healthcare had gotten a permit to protest and that area was roped off. But that was not to be. A large bus carrying SEIU (Service Employees International Union) members drove up onto the area (illegal)and unloaded right there. It was quite a commotion and there were specifically 2 SEIU men trying to make trouble and start a fight. Police did get involved and arrested the one man but they said they did not have the manpower to remove the SEIU crowd.
    The SEIU crowd was very organized and young. About 99% were under the age of 30 and they were not locals! They had bullhorns and PROFESSIONALLY made signs. Some even wore preprinted T-shirts. Oh, and Planned Parenthood folks were with them…..professing abortion rights with their T-shirts and preprinted signs. (BTW, all these folks did have a permit to protest in ANOTHER area)

    Those against healthcare/spending moved away from the SEIU crowd to avoid confrontation. They were orderly and respectful. Even though SEIU kept coming over and walking through, continuing to be very intimidating and aggressive at the direction of the one SEIU man.

    So we had Montana folks from ALL OVER the state with their homemade signs and their DOGS with homemade signs. We had cowboys, nurses, doctors you name it. There was even a guy from Texas who had been driving through. He found out about the occasion, went to the store, made a sign, and came to protest.

    If you are wondering about the press…..Well, all of the major networks were over by that remote hangar I mentioned. They were conveniently parked on the other side of the buildings FAR away. None of these crowds were even visible to them. I have my doubts that they knew anything about the crowds.
    We did have some local news media around us from this state and Idaho . Speaking of the local media…they were invited. However, all questions were to be turned into the White House in advance of the event. Wouldn’t want anyone to have to think off the top of their head.

    It was very obvious that it was meant to be totally controlled by the White House. Everything was orchestrated down to the last detail to make it appear that Montana is just crazy for Obama and government healthcare. Even those people that talked about their insurance woes……..the White House called our local HRDC (Human Resource and Development Committee) and asked for names. Then the White House asked those folks to come. Smoke and mirrors…EVERYTHING was staged!!!!!!!!!!!

    I am very dismayed about what I learned about our current White House. The amount of control and manipulation was unbelievable. I felt I was not living in the United States of America , more like the USSR !! I was physically nauseous. Bill and I have been around when Presidents or Heads of State visit. It has NEVER been like this. I am truly very frightened for our country. America needs your prayers and your voices. If you care about our country please get involved. Know the issues. And let Congress hear your voices again and again!! If they are willing to put forth so much effort to BULLY a small town one can only imagine what is going on in Washington DC . Scary!!

    Bozeman , Montana

    Mark (603fd3)

  71. 1) get real sick 2) can’t work, lose job, lose insurance 3) run out of COBRA, can’t get new insurance due to existing condition 4) incur massive medical bills 5) declare bankruptcy.

    Price controls can reduce medical bills.

    What could go wrong?

    Michael Ejercito (833607)

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