The Officer Didn’t Stereotype Henry Louis Gates — Henry Louis Gates Stereotyped the Officer
Racism is simply a form of stereotyping. Stereotyping occurs when one says: because of my past experiences with people from your group, as well as things I have heard about people from your group, I am forming a firm opinion about you.
Racism is simply one form of that attitude, in which “people from your group” means “black people.”
Oddly, however, many black people feel perfectly comfortable engaging in a similar form of stereotyping, in which “people from your group” means “police officers” or “white people” — or, best of all, “white police officers.” Apparently, stereotyping those groups is a laudable pursuit.
The Henry Louis Gates arrest is yet another reminder of how quick some black people are to leap to unflattering conclusions about others based on scant evidence. Mickey Kaus reads Gates’s account of his arrest, and makes this observation:
Just reading this passage–Gates’ own words–it seems to me he pops into litigious mode a little quickly. He says he wanted to file a complaint “because of the way he treated me at the front door.” How had he mistreated him at the front door? He asked him ‘Would you step outside onto the porch?’ (where, as Gates notes, the cop would have more rights). When Gates refuses and instead gives the cop an ID, the cop looks at the ID. And at that point Gates has already determined he’s been treated unfairly. He’s already refusing to answer questions and planning to file a complaint. Again, from his own words it looks like he rushes a bit to the conclusion that a white man in a similar situation would have been treated differently. Is that really true?
Is it really true? Gates has no basis to say. All he has is a collection of prejudices about the group to which the officer belonged: white police officers. And based on that collection of prejudices, Gates leapt to a conclusion — this police officer is a racist. The evidence is strong that the conclusion was wrong: the officer teaches classes in avoiding racial profiling and was responding to a legitimate report from a citizen. Gates should have realized that his own actions in forcing entry to the house had aroused legitimate suspicions. But Gates didn’t employ common sense, or make an effort to learn something about the man in front of him. He simply stereotyped him.
And in apologizing for Gates, black firebrands and white liberals patronizingly excuse techniques of stereotyping that they would condemn in a racist.
Form an image of a racist in your mind: someone who watches a TV report about a crime committed by a black person, and says: “I’m not surprised. That’s how black people are: they’re all criminals.” Is this racist attitude justified if the racist says:
I’m sorry I have this bad attitude about black people, but I have seen and heard bad things about black people all my life. I know they commit a lot of crimes, and in fact, I have been robbed by three separate black people in my life.
Now, form an image in your mind of a black person who watches a TV report about police brutality, and says: “I’m not surprised. That’s how those white cops are: they’re all racists.” Is this attitude justified if the black person says:
I’m sorry I have this bad attitude about white cops, but I have seen and heard bad things about white cops all my life. I know they hassle black people, and in fact, I have been mistreated by three separate white cops in my life.
For some reason, people who would never accept the racist’s justification of his racist attitudes, will nod their heads in approval as black people expound on why they believe all white cops are racists based upon their own personal experiences.
Henry Louis Gates stereotyped Sgt. Crowley. He formed an opinion about Sgt. Crowley based on evidence that was far too limited to justify the conclusion. He formed that opinion based on prejudices he had collected over the course of his life about the group to which Sgt. Crowley belonged. That opinion — that Sgt. Crowley was a racist who needed to be educated about racial profiling — turned out to be wrong.
Gates’s mental process was the same mental process that a racist uses to decide that someone like Gates is less than human. It’s an ignorant way of looking at the world, hardly befitting a Harvard professor. Liberals ought not applaud such stereotyping. They should fight it.
It’s a shame that they don’t. And I don’t think they ever will.
This whole incident reinforces my prejudices against Harvard professors.Alta Bob (7d5750) — 7/24/2009 @ 7:26 am
Rather than focusing on a man like Gates whose “injustice” is spending four hours in the Cambridge police station becaues he yelled at police, perhaps President Obama could mention this man instead?Joe (17aeff) — 7/24/2009 @ 7:28 am
A look at Gates’ syllabus for his Harvard classes would probably tell you what you need to know about his opinions on the issue of police and racial profiling. Here are the two courses he teaches. Tough work schedule. Not much detail but I suspect most of us have a pretty good idea based on Reverend Wright’s sermons.MIke K (2cf494) — 7/24/2009 @ 7:28 am
It’s a shame that they don’t. And I don’t think they ever will.
Correct. Because if they do, they will lose an entire class of victims that they must protect.Dr. K (eca563) — 7/24/2009 @ 7:29 am
This is similar to the mentality of the Leftists that define individuals as racist because of their belonging to a political group, Republicans. Rather than treat people as individuals, they employ the same mindset as the racist, judging someone not on their actual person, but simply by their membership in a particular group. The Leftist mindset in this is exactly what they proclaim to disdain. But it is right and just when they do it.JD (55b145) — 7/24/2009 @ 7:32 am
I must give credit when due — Spot on Headline.
Notwithstanding, I want to point out Stereotyping is also a form of intelligence. The ability to generalize cause and effect even if not a perfect rule is what determines intelligence.
Folks who say “I don’t want to generalize” are usually too stupid to understand patterns exist in the this world or they trying to be PC.HeavenSent (01a566) — 7/24/2009 @ 7:34 am
The front page headline in today’s Dog Trainer reads “Obama eases his position on black professor’s arrest”
The first sentence of the story reads ” A day after saying that police ‘acted stupidly’ in arresting a black Harvard University professor in his own home, President Obama appeared to soften his stance Thursday, spreading the blame equally between the police and the arrested man.”
Well excuse me! Our smart “cerebral” “cool” President ought to have been smart enough to realize that once the words “I don’t know much about the facts” slip through your lips, that the ONLY words that should follow are “and so I don’t care to comment”.
Instead Obama felt free to enter a “free fire zone” damning all policemen as stupid racists.
Strangest thing of all about this is that Sergeant Crowley, whatever his other virtues or vices may be, said he’d voted for Obama last fall. Obama should be grateful enough to thank that “racist pig’ for the vote.Mike Myers (674050) — 7/24/2009 @ 7:35 am
Ironic that Sgt. Crowley appears to have been treating Dr. Gates as an individual, but Dr. Gates was treating Sgt. Crowley as a meber of a group, and basing his treatment on perceptions, rather than the actual actions taking place. Their outrage would be palpable if it was the other way around, and in fact, this illustrates that it rarely matters to them what actually happened. Witnesses are to be disregarded. Commenting on Gates’ actions is racist. Crowley and the cops acted stupidly. It really is illustrative.JD (55b145) — 7/24/2009 @ 7:36 am
Gates is a professor of African-American Studies. Every moment of every day he thinks black. “Black” in the US to an ethnic studies teacher means suffering and discrimination. It means being harassed and profiled by the police. It means being treated like any black arrestee in Watts or Harlem. In some ways I feel sorry for the good professor. He is trapped. The president of the United States knows him and defends him. He is a Harvard Professor, writes and sells books. But he is trapped inside his mental ghetto because he likes it that way. It’s his way of showing solidarity to the cause. I prefer Bill Cosby. Cosby prefers freedom.mhr (8ff41d) — 7/24/2009 @ 7:38 am
The party which seeks to perpetuate and institutionalize racial differences has no interest in eliminating stereotypes, IMHO.daleyrocks (718861) — 7/24/2009 @ 7:39 am
Unfortunately, Obama’s comments indicate that he is as prone to stereotyping as anyone. Not a good role model!RAZ (4e0dda) — 7/24/2009 @ 7:39 am
Obama stepped in it – the national dialog on race may take a turn he won’t likevoiceofreason2 (590c85) — 7/24/2009 @ 7:42 am
Is Gates joto?HeavenSent (01a566) — 7/24/2009 @ 7:43 am
Gates lives a professor’s life built on and around how black people and culture have been treated in America.
Crowley lives a police officer’s life centered on keeping his entire community safe.
Keep those tapes safe, Officer Crowley, and get them public, even if you have to file FOIA requests. There is no other way you will ever be able to receive the same level of justice for which you risk your own life daily in attempts to ensure it for others.jim2 (6482d8) — 7/24/2009 @ 7:45 am
I cannot find the quote, but didn’t Bill Cosby chime in on this?JD (55b145) — 7/24/2009 @ 7:45 am
Uh, no. There’s nothing “simply” about racism. And it’s a power imperative, not a zero sum game of “cards.”David Ehrenstein (2550d9) — 7/24/2009 @ 7:46 am
Great Post. I read the Police Report yesterday and then learned that this particular Officer 1) Gave mouth to mouth rescessitation to dying man who happened to be black; and 2) for about 5 years or so actually taught a class for other Police Officers on Racial Profiling and how to not commit racial profilling. So, you would think that this particular Officer would be very, very aware of any “racial profiling” issues as he acted and reacted to a private citizen’s call about a possible break in at a house that had had prior break-ins.
This morning on WLS Radio 890 AM Chicago, one of the radio announcers told the story of what happened to him one time when he had a similar run-in with Police. He (“Cassidy” who is white) was having a new alarm system installed and evidently the installer accidentally tripped the system. Cassidy is all of a sudden startled by someone banging loudly at his door. He goes and opens the door and there are two white Chicago Police Officers there and the second guy actually had his hand down by his side – not grabbing his gun, but clearly in a position to quickly grab his gun if needed. Immediately the Officers start very aggressively questioning Cassidy and are acting like they don’t trust him. They ask for ID and he gets his wallet out and hands over his ID and the Officers aggressively question him about his ID and his personal information. At that time Cassidy had been somewhat startled by this whole thing and didn’t realize that the kid installing the alarm system must have accidentally tripped it off. Then it dawns on him what probably happened and he takes the Officers to the kid in his Den installing the system and the Officers aggressively question the installer as well. Finally satisfied that there was no break-in, the Police left but throughout the whole time the Officers were hyper-alert, aggressive, and very controlling of the situation. I would expect that to be the case with any Police Officers when responding to a potential burglary. It’s their job!
I imagine that the Offier responding to Gates house was probably also a little aggressive, but according the the report Gates immediately started screaming “Rascism.” Furthermore, Gates was not arrested for being in the house, he was arrested for following the Officer out of the house and continuing to yell and scream at him causing a disturbance in the street. The Officer warned gates two times to stop or he would be arrested for disorderly conduct and Gates continued screaming “You don’t know who your messing with, you Rascist. etc.” So the Officer arrested him for disorderly conduct. The Officer tried to de-escalate the situation but Gates wouldn’t let go.
It will be interesting to hear the 911 tape of the call-in and also any radio broadcasts from the Officer to dispatch. I bet you’ll be able to hear Gates screaming at the Officer while the Officer is attempting to radio dispatch. Why? Because I am a rascist and prejudiced against blacks? No. I could care less whether Gates is black or any other color. I’m prejudiced against Gates because he’s no doubt an asshat liberal “PROFESSOR” at HAAAAAAAAAVAAAAARD!
Obama was a dumbass for stating “Well, I don’t know all the facts….but, the cop acted stupidly.” What a putz.J. Raymond Wright (d83ab3) — 7/24/2009 @ 7:47 am
Sterotyping is an essential survival skill. We all sterotype, albeit far from perfectly. To say a person should not sterotype, is to say they should ignore their entire life experience. That is not the way sane people function.DavidL (02e14f) — 7/24/2009 @ 7:56 am
I don’t know the facts, but Obama acted stupidly and is a racist! I denounce him, the ACLU, MSNBC, and the Democrat party for the their Racism.PCD (02f8c1) — 7/24/2009 @ 7:56 am
I’ve had this continuing argument for over two decades with two of my friends – one is about my age, the other almost a generation older. They’ve both experienced being pulled over and questioned for no other reason than they happened to be black and in the “wrong” neighborhoods (one grew up on the south side of chicago, the other in the Bronx). I understand completely where they’re coming from (because it happened to me in a rednecky rural suburb outside of Chicago, about 10 years ago), but we all agree that those events happened a long time ago, and while there will always be jerks holding a badge, nevertheless you never, ever start mouthing off towards a person who’s legally holding a baton and a handgun. I’ve always thought that the day we as a nation stop infantilizing blacks and other minorities and excusing them for their actions is the day that we’ve really become a “post – racial” society. Gates and Obama are emblematic of how we’ve still got a long way to go, and they’re one the chief reasons why that’s still the case. They’re no different than the race grievance – mongers like Sharpton and Jackson, albeit with a smoother outward appearance – that is, until that soft shell is pierced ever so slightly, then the ugly side comes rushing out.Dmac (e6d1c2) — 7/24/2009 @ 7:56 am
Perfect, Patterico. perfect perfect perfect
[note: fished from spam filter]MayBee (3ea00e) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:04 am
If you watched MSNBC or read SEK’s blog, you would know and understand how racist you are.JD (55b145) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:04 am
I actually watched CBS news and was stunned by how distorted it was.
They presented the certain facts that put Gates in a positive light, ignored the ones putting him in a negative light, presented only part of the PO story … then cut away to a segment talking about Racism in America and Law Enforcement with the usual 1950 tapes.
It was like the last 50 years did not happen and WHITE PEOPLE did not just put a black guy into office.
No outright lies mind I add you but clear what the intent was to any right minded and fair person.HeavenSent (01a566) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:12 am
I’m sorry to say but even Canadian liberals are questioning president Obama’s ability to recognize what he’s saying when “off script”. To think, he’s lauded as a member of your intelligentsia…Alan F. (4d0202) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:14 am
I read SEK’s blog and comments. Academians really should get out in the real world more often. Delusions of grandeur and a desperate obligation to carry water for The Cause makes their world go round. And what a narrow, little world theirs is.Dana (57e332) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:17 am
“To think, he’s lauded as a member of your intelligentsia…”
Only by ObamaTards. Clinton was smart.
Obama is just a political cliche who could pass for a Joe Kool Spokesman.
Frankly, Obama’s biggest strength is he does not act like, speak like, nor dress like Jesse Jackson or Rev Al ……HeavenSent (01a566) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:19 am
“They’ve both experienced being pulled over and questioned for no other reason than they happened to be black and in the “wrong” neighborhoods (one grew up on the south side of chicago, the other in the Bronx).”
Dmac – You are a typical white person. It it a sheer wild ass guess to assume they were pulled over for no other reason than being black in the wrong neighborhood unless the police specifically told them that.daleyrocks (718861) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:23 am
To those praising stereotyping as a survival skill: I understand your point and will probably write more addressing the issue. Briefly, it’s true that we need to stereotype to survive — but we should also recognize the limitations of stereotyping and TRY to treat people as individuals WHEN POSSIBLE. Also recognize that NEGATIVE stereotyping is the most likely to be offensive, so when it’s not necessary for survival or other important reasons it’s best to TRY to avoid it.Patterico (5bf9ae) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:24 am
Whites and Nice Cars with NJ License Plates are pulled over in Washington Heights (Manhattan side of the GW Bridge) every day just because …..
Where is the outrage?
Could it be stereotyping, profiling and racism are at play?? Or could it be all the drug trade????HeavenSent (01a566) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:25 am
or read SEK’s blog, you would know and understand how racist you are.
I had the misfortune as well to wander over there and see the kind of frothing moonbats that SEK regularly entertains at his blog – beyond ridiculous. If he ever decides to come back here, he’s going to have to do some serious introspection for his refusal to rein in those incredible asshats. Which means he won’t, of course. In the rarefied world of academia, calling others racists without any justification means never having to say you’re sorry.Dmac (e6d1c2) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:26 am
Heavensent – You report, we decide.daleyrocks (718861) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:30 am
Would I be a racist if I asked, What on earth are “black studies.” At first brush, it must be courses on how to put down ‘the man.’ I wonder if they discuss how to sue the ‘crackers’ in court and win.TimothyJ (8fb937) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:30 am
White means never having to say you’re sorry.David Ehrenstein (2550d9) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:31 am
Denying you are racists, or defending yourself against an accusation of racism is proof of your racism.JD (55b145) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:32 am
. It it a sheer wild ass guess to assume they were pulled over for no other reason than being black in the wrong neighborhood unless the police specifically told them that.
No, I’m a typical white person who’s lived in Chicago my whole life, and know full well what the Chicago Police Dept. was like back in the 50’s, 60’s, and 70’s, when it was all – white, corrupt and thuggish as hell. There is no debate about the incredibly awful behavior of the rank and file during those eras – I know many people personally who had their families pulled over while driving to church on Sundays, and they all had to watch while their fathers were spread – eagled on the hoods while searched vigorously. No reason was ever given for these kinds of actions, and if you had any knowledge of the history of the police force in this city regarding the black popluation you’d never make that comment in the first place. Try harder next time.Dmac (e6d1c2) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:32 am
TimothyJ – While you’re at it, why don’t you ask what “fat studies” are? Is that where they discuss where to find the best restaurant deals in town?daleyrocks (718861) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:33 am
Gates, like too many other academics, makes a living off of race obsession. Everything he does, every sensation he experiences, every cognition he develops, goes thru the race-analysis organelle in his twisted brain. He’ll project his delusions upon others (he divined “the narrative” in a police officer’s psyche,) and preen over his superior knowledge of race arcana (he offered to “educate” the officer, if only the officer apologized first.)
It’s as if a gravity-obsessed physics professor shoved to the ground everybody he met in order to demonstrate the “narrative” of fundamental forces, or a chemistry prof would throw acid on everyone to enlighten them about the dogma of the hydrogen ion.
This race obsession shit has got to stop, and the first place to start stopping it is academia. Hopefully the audiotapes of the Gates encounter will become public, and will expose Gates for the deluded jerkwad he is.gp (72be5d) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:34 am
Oh, yeah, I also lived in the North Shore for the first 12 years of my life – and if you think that people of color weren’t pulled over routinely for no reason whatsoever then I’ve got a terrific bridge to sell you in the Mojave desert.Dmac (e6d1c2) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:34 am
Many years ago, I attempted to call a guy I happened to be working with on his racist language.Richard Aubrey (a9ba34) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:34 am
“Two of’em murdered my father in a mall parking lot, so I can say anything I damn’ well please.”
I figured two things. I’d make no progress to continue to try, and that thing about walking a mile in another’s shoes sort of conflicted with my adolescent self-righteousness. Funny, that.
I thought I already posted to tell Patterico how perfect this is, but I don’t see it. So at the risk of a duplicate– Perfect, Patterico.
To those praising stereotyping as a survival skill: I understand your point and will probably write more addressing the issue. Briefly, it’s true that we need to stereotype to survive — but we should also recognize the limitations of stereotyping and TRY to treat people as individuals WHEN POSSIBLE. Also recognize that NEGATIVE stereotyping is the most likely to be offensive, so when it’s not necessary for survival or other important reasons it’s best to TRY to avoid it.
I agree that it is wise to listen to your inner voice when the guy who looks like a molester is already in the elevator when it stops for you in an otherwise-empty parking garage. That is survival stereotyping. Maybe you get your phone ready to dial, or don’t get on the elevator with him.
But that doesn’t mean you start yelling at him, calling him a rapist. And if you decide to mace him and he files charges, it isn’t a defense to say women are legitimately suspicious of creepy looking men in elevators.MayBee (3ea00e) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:34 am
“She’s a wise Latina. He’s a stupid cop. Together they fight crime…”
This fall on MSM.fat tony (241e9b) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:36 am
I would challenge that smug, deluded putz SEK to spend one year living in North Philadelphia.SPC Jack Klompus (c1922b) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:38 am
“Try harder next time.”
DMAC – Are you part of the reparations movement now? I wasn’t living in Chicago then, but in the New York area and I’m perfectly familiar with the phenomena you describe. I think race relations were very different in the 1960s – I was close to riots in Newark. If you really think that kind of crap is still broadly going on I think you need to try harder.daleyrocks (718861) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:38 am
Patterico, I appreciated your post. The deeply, deeply sad part is that at most academic institutions, the ethnocrats have pushed a seemingly bizarre idea: members of racial minorities cannot be racist, by definition. Women cannot be sexist. Etc.
It has to do with “power differential.” Thus, Professor Gates cannot possibly be racist when he stereotypes whites based on their ethnicity, because he himself is black, and has thus suffered from racism.
Or was Professor Gates also accusing the black police officer present during his tantrum of acting in a racist fashion?
This running in circles logic is so common on college campuses that it is not even discussed. Trust me on this.
The “power differential” business really bugs me, because it doesn’t reflect reality accurately. For example, if I am wandering around certain districts in Detroit at 3 AM as a white man, I decidedly do not enjoy a power differential.
But that’s different™, of course.
As for Professor Gates, I say that the Cambridge police department should release the tapes. And keep in mind that Professor Gates’ original statement portrayed him as cool, collected, and always professional.
But no worries. When Professor Gates’ immature and elitist actions are confirmed as I suspect they will be (I could be wrong, naturally), it will follow the usual pattern: (i) denial, (ii) a statement that it doesn’t matter, and (iii) white people are bad.
Sigh. It’s ethnocracy in action.Eric Blair (204104) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:45 am
“Oh, yeah, I also lived in the North Shore for the first 12 years of my life – and if you think that people of color weren’t pulled over routinely for no reason whatsoever”
Dmac – It’s your clairvoyance that amazes me. You absolutely positively know that there was no reason to pull the people over how?daleyrocks (718861) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:49 am
Three days and we’re still going on about this? Are there new facts? Is there any development? Let’s move on to something important like the latest Rasmussen “pol” on Boxer’s re-election chances. A multi-term US Senator is in trouble and we’re still talking about Harvard professors and their friendly neighborhood police officers?timb (8f04c0) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:51 am
But that is the problem, gp. It is an entire industry in academia, with whole careers based on it. With entire administrative positions devoted to it.
I don’t have a solution. I have spent 33 years in academic environments, and the mindset is literally everywhere.
Why, I have actually seen colleagues openly state that they wanted to hire a specific minority group for a position, without even looking at applications. I have seen arguments between minority faculty members about another minority member being “brown enough” to be “officially” Hispanic.
And so forth.
I don’t know what can be done.
Professor Gates is typical. And if you disagree with Professor Gates, guess what?Eric Blair (204104) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:54 am
Racism is simply one form of that attitude, in which “people from your group” means “black people.”
Don’t tell me you have bought into the “only black people can be the victims of racism”?
Racist is one of the most damaging pejoratives that a person can be labeled with in todays racially charged climate. Are you saying that the sterotyping of racial or ethnic groups other than blacks is not racism. That it is less of an evil to sterotype whites, asians ETC?Truthteller (34600a) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:54 am
Stereotyping is just a convenient way to not have to extend thought and consideration toward another they have already pegged. It then neatly removes the responsibility for one’s actions from the one doing the stereotyping. Like a built in justification to treat another person (because of the stereotype they meet) like crap.
There are indeed limits to stereotyping but there is an enormous segment of the population that lives, eats and breathes the very opposite of that: there are no limits that occur from stereotyping because what is perceived through the stereotyper’s narrow filter is truth to them.
If one keeps their stereotypes neatly in place, they are then dealing with a known quantity and the individual no longer exists. And because these people believe they already know the outcome of that person they’ve stereotyped, they can treat them as poorly as they want and feel justified in it.Dana (57e332) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:55 am
You are free to write about whatever you would like, creepy little lawyer type person.JD (55b145) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:57 am
JD – timb has a law degree, as far as we know he is not a lawyer.daleyrocks (718861) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:59 am
Very true, Dana. And I think that these attitudes assist racist thought, paradoxically. Which, again, is bread and butter to the ethnocrats.
A good example (speaking of Barbara Boxer) is the exchange between Harry Alford and Senator Boxer. She wanted all blacks to think the way she wants. Alford called her on her own racial prejudice.
Dennis Miller interviewed Mr. Alford, and it is a good listen.
http://multimedia.play.it/m/audio/25413740/harry-alford-interview.htmEric Blair (204104) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:02 am
The fact remains that the two people involved in this matter acted stupidly. Gates ought to have saved his outraged for a more serious offence. Now he has lost that chance. Just like the boy that cried “wolf”, when a real case of racial profiling does happen to him, no one will take him seriously when he screams “blue or white murder”. As for the officer, he overreacted. He should simply walked away on confirming that Gates was really the owner of the house. Now he is going to have to prove to everyone that he is not a racist. Even when he knows he is not. Arresting the man was totally unnecessary. As for stereotypes, we are all guilty of it.The Emperor (1b037c) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:02 am
“…. recognize that NEGATIVE stereotyping is the most likely to be offensive, so when it’s not necessary for survival or other important reasons it’s best to TRY to avoid it.”
So are you saying Gates was wrong for negative stereotyping and he should try to avoid it??
Somehow I think you meant it the other way bu found your “principles” compromised before you even put the period in the sentence.HeavenSent (01a566) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:05 am
I’m not a police officer, but we have a few here. I’m curious. What should be the police officer’s response, when a person starts yelling at them? Is walking away the correct response?
I always thought it was unwise to yell at people who (as someone put it) legally carry batons, cuffs, and guns. But that is me.
Again, what is the position of police officers on this?Eric Blair (204104) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:06 am
This whole story reminds me lots of an old line I heard …
Southern whites hated blacks in general but managed to create friendly bonds with those close to them whom they knew through repeated interaction. This so even if many Southern Whites wanted to keep segregation alive and well.
Northern white loved blacks in general but could not stomach the idea of having a relationship with them in any way. So long as blacks stayed away they had no problem with them.
Anyway, food for thought on who generalizes and stereotypes and who does not ………….HeavenSent (01a566) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:09 am
There is an interesting observation that Professor Gates’ outrage was far less to do with racial profiling and much more to do with class profiling. A cop humiliating an Ivy League prof on the carpet? Do you know who I am!
And if so, still stereotyping on the professor’s part – just a different elitist kind…
He isn’t outraged because he feels he was the victim of racial profiling by the police (that dubious honor goes to his foolish neighbor) [in fact, the woman who called the police is not a neighbor, but works nearby]. He’s outraged because he was the victim of class profiling. He didn’t resent being identified as black; he resented being identified as that kind of black, the kind of black that can be hassled and pushed around by simpleton cops. How dare you hassle me? I’m Skip Gates: Harvard professor!
Skip has fallen victim to the Ivy League Effect. Check out his articles — you can definitely go to the Root — the Web site he is editor in chief of — if you want to see a repository for the whole masturbatory display. He all but says, “Do I look like that type of (black) person? I was wearing a blazer and a polo shirt!” Gates is Ivy League pissed with a dash of black anger.Dana (57e332) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:14 am
As for stereotypes, we are all guilty of it.
Stereotyping is good. Keeps you alive and well. Allows you to navigate a complex world without boiling the ocean for facts every time to discover “the truth.”
I don’t want to have to work that hard to determine if Leroy or Cracker Jim want to kill me and take my money. I just assume the tatoos, gold chains, gold teeth, poor diction, lack of vocabulary, wooptee low profile car and general “fuck you” attitude is a sign of trouble.
Been there, done that.HeavenSent (01a566) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:14 am
If you really think that kind of crap is still broadly going on I think you need to try harder.
Read my initial post again, please. In no section did I make any claim that these kinds of actions were occuring recently – I referred to instances that happened in the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s.
Here’s what I said:
and I know full well what the Chicago Police Dept. was like back in the 50’s, 60’s, and 70’s, when it was all – white, corrupt and thuggish as hell. There is no debate about the incredibly awful behavior of the rank and file during those eras
What part of that posting did you not fully comprehend? Did you actually read it in full, or just reacting to what you thought I said? Please explain.
You absolutely positively know that there was no reason to pull the people over how?
Yeah, because I witnessed these events with my own eyes and ears. I was right there on the street when three of these incidents happened directly in front of me while living in Kenilworth during the 60’s – does that make me a liar now? Was it all just a silly hallucination, then? The one reason I heard the lazy and idiotic cops give was that “their car looked beaten up, and why were they in town anyway?” BTW, this was the same police force that never found the killer of Senator Percy’s daugher, despite his house being located less than three blocks away from the police station. The same crap occured with regularity in Wilmette, Winnetka and sometimes even Evanston back in those days.
You’re way off base here, and wrong in your assumptions.Dmac (e6d1c2) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:14 am
When did being a racist become illegal?HeavenSent (01a566) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:15 am
We now have the final word on this issue. Representative Sheila Jackson Lee, well known limousine passenger, has weighed in:
“To respond to a good Samaritan’s call of a potential break-in — we don’t mind that,” Jackson Lee said. However, she added, when the police encountered Gates, he “was not in the attire of burglar.”
She is an expert on burglary.
She also has opinions on most subjects although they are predictable.MIke K (2cf494) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:18 am
I like the idea of justice being blind but must I in living my life?HeavenSent (01a566) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:18 am
Thanks for bringing some much-needed sanity to this situation Damac. Skippy may well eb an asshole. But last time I looked that wasn’t a cause for arrest. Did he physically attack the officer?
BTW, the Cambridge Police Union (each and every one white as snow) are on the tub right now demanding that Obama apologize to them.
Seems that th President doesn’t know his place.David Ehrenstein (2550d9) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:18 am
Thank you, daley, for your precision.
Also, I would like to point out that I would be free to write about something else on my blog, which I do not have, but I am not free to do it here. Here, my comments are confined to the topic at hand, which until more information is published was largely exhausted on the first thread.
Man, it’s like dj has something against lawyers….ironic given that he spends 12 hours a day here!
Do you go to Goldstein’s place and put down people who beg money on the internet (or whatever his “occupation” is listed as these days)?timb (8f04c0) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:20 am
Representative Sheila Jackson Lee must be watching those Dora Cartoons where Swipper always has a mask on and is tip-toeing sneakily around his victims.
What an ignorant c**t.HeavenSent (01a566) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:20 am
Gates At The Grocery Store: “So THESE are the breakfast cereals a black man in America is expected to choose from?!”
Gates At The Gas Pump: “The price per octane blend differentials are clearly designed to disadvantage poor blacks!”
Gates Goes To The Movies: “Nothing demonstrates the essential Whiteness of the dominant power structure better than the casting choices of Ingmar Bergman!”gp (72be5d) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:22 am
Is being a misogynist illegal?
It is like Black Politicians are on a Stoopid Parade on this one, with each trying to call attention to how idiotic they are.
Look I am waving, I am and idiot!! Look at me!!! RACISM 24×7!!!!! Wooo-hooo Vote for ME!!!HeavenSent (01a566) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:24 am
I always thought it was unwise to yell at people who (as someone put it) legally carry batons, cuffs, and guns. But that is me.
But the fact that it’s dumb to piss off the guy with power doesn’t mean it’s ok for the guy with power to abuse it.aphrael (9e8ccd) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:25 am
“I would like to point out that I would be free to write about something else on my blog, which I do not have, but I am not free to do it here.”
timb – Feel the OPPRESSION!!!! Who is restricting your freedom here? Are people writing you letters like Obama?daleyrocks (718861) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:26 am
far less to do with racial profiling and much more to do with class profiling
I think there’s something to that. I also think there’s a degree to which Prof. Gates’ internal dialogue was saying “see, even as a successful Harvard professor who should be able to avoid the fate of poor black folk, I’m still not treated any differently than them by the man.”aphrael (9e8ccd) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:26 am
Charges were dropped for him.
Can’t say the same for thousands of those who get a night in jail and a fine for that behavior.
Haaaaaavahd, has its benefits I guess.
The only sign of abuse there was Gates abusing the unsuspecting cracker.HeavenSent (01a566) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:28 am
And yet they avoid the subject of why racial strife exists in cities which are not dominated by Republicans.
Chicago is the capital of racism (as well as anti-Judaism, police corruption, police brutality, and gun control).
The same is not true of Cambridge.Michael Ejercito (833607) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:29 am
“But the fact that it’s dumb to piss off the guy with power doesn’t mean it’s ok for the guy with power to abuse it.”
aphrael – Thank you for the statement of the obvious. I do not believe there is anything close to agreement that Crowley abused his power in this situation.daleyrocks (718861) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:29 am
Timb, why don’t you return to your regular daily activities and go play with yourself? The adults are talking.Dmac (e6d1c2) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:29 am
But the fact that it’s dumb to piss off the guy with power doesn’t mean it’s ok for the guy with power to abuse it.
No one has said or inferred that this is ever okay. Obviously, it’s not.
But in this situation, Professor Gates was also with the power to control the situation: he could have chosen to simply and quietly, comply with the officer’s request. Show i.d., be polite, and behave with the decorum of an Ivy League professor who understands that any issues with regard to discrimination would most wisely be dealt with at a later date and time.Dana (57e332) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:29 am
#72, after a week in China he probably had to hit the head real bad and this cop was just annoying him while he was looking for a copy of American Progressive or something.HeavenSent (01a566) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:31 am
… or maybe is was a copy of — “Goodbye Tyranny and Poverty — How Obama ended the BusHitlerCHeneyCoverup Years.”HeavenSent (01a566) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:33 am
The President and the democratic controlled Congress will give Professor Gates stimulus money and they will investigate the officer and his family.Jim (3a3033) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:35 am
Dmac – I read your comments, which is why I asked if you were in the reparations movement. Did you read mine. You trot out the same decades old crap every time this type of shit comes up. Get over it since you acknowledge it has not been happening recently. You also cannot have abso0lute knowledge inside the mind of the police making a traffic stop for the reasons they are doing it. To claim otherwise is absolute bullshit. That is where you are out of line. You have no knowledge of whether they are looking for a specific vehicle type or individual. It’s just a typical anti-profiling asspull comment.daleyrocks (718861) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:37 am
Timmah – Since my parents have law degrees, it is odd that you think I have something against lawyers. Add that to the endless list of things you are utterly clueless about.
RacistsJD (f9a61c) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:41 am
What if the charges were not dropped and Professor Gates was convicted of a felony, would the officer still be correct? It has happened within the past year to those less well connected. It may be interesting to consider the case of Dibor Roberts to determine whether you can see any connections.
http://www.tuccille.com/blog/2008/01/attacked-by-cop-on-dark-road.htmlMal Lam (82b2d3) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:42 am
Mal – Was Dr. Gates attacked by a cop?JD (f9a61c) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:47 am
Dana, at 72: ahh, and now I think we’ve hit one of the real underlying differences between liberals and conservatives. 🙂
At the risk of engaging in stereotyping :), I think the stereotypically conservative way of looking at an event like this is to focus on Prof. Gates, and how he is responsible for the outcome, because he was acting in a way which he knew was stupid and carried with it sizable risk of a bad result, and a man should be willing to admit to personal responsibility for his own bad decisions. Meanwhile, I think the stereotypically liberal way of looking at an event like this is to focus on Sgt. Crowley, and how he is responsible for the outcome, because his job was to defuse the situation and, to a certain extent, put his natural human reactions to being treated poorly aside, and he failed to do that.
You said, in response to my comment, that No one has said or inferred that [police abusing their power] is ever okay. Obviously, it’s not.
But the entire discussion of how Prof. Gates should have known better strikes me as saying that Prof. Gates behavior in doing something stupid is comparatively worse than Sgt. Crowley’s abuse of his power.
Now, I acknowledge that whether Sgt. Crowley abused his power by arresting Prof. Gates is disputed; I think he did (and, while I agree that he got off better than many in such a situation would have, I think that just magnifies the size of the overall power), but there are legitimate reasons why one might disagree with me.
My point here is, however, that the way the conversation is framed by those who are focusing on what Prof. Gates did wrong suggests that the people focusing on it believe that, even if Sgt. Crowley had abused his power, Prof. Gates’ stupidity was a worse offense.
It reminds me, on some level, of a conversation I once had with someone who told me, point blank, that he thought the fact that people had ever been naive enough to believe that slavery could be eliminated worlwide was more shocking and horrifying than the fact that slavery hadn’t been eliminated worldwide.aphrael (9e8ccd) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:52 am
Gates like Obama got into college by afirmative action, got their grades and degrees by afirmative action and got their jobs by afirmative action. Who are they to call anyone a racists? The comment is how terrible it is to be white in racists black America. Enought of this bunch of whining give me more losers…..john Anderson (a10f26) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:53 am
Time for Gates to have a class in Cultural Competency.metalhead (42282a) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:54 am
Mal wants to play “look over there”.JD (f9a61c) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:58 am
Welcome Moby. Drive-by somewhere else next time. You a friend of AJL?Stashiu3 (ed6467) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:07 am
Aphrael – do you agree or disagree with Patterico’s assessment above?JD (f9a61c) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:12 am
It reminds me, on some level, of a conversation I once had with someone who told me, point blank, that he thought the fact that people had ever been naive enough to believe that slavery could be eliminated worlwide was more shocking and horrifying than the fact that slavery hadn’t been eliminated worldwide.
Comment by aphrael
I agree, aphrael. Does that make me a racist ? There is black slavery in Africa today. The fact that it is practiced by Arabs and blacks against blacks does not make it OK but it sure seems to lower the decibel level from the lefties.
Slavery is an economic system that goes back to the dawn of history. It is obsolete in any society that has undergone the Industrial Revolution. The fact that Britain was almost the first major nation state to outlaw it has a lot to do with the fact that Britain was the first to undergo the revolution. The fact that the Industrial Revolution caused great poverty among the poor in England (See Oliver Goldsmith, for example) tends to balance the moral virtue of the ban.
Anyway, slavery was a great evil but it was also a primitive economic system. The fact that it exists today in some areas says a lot about their society, and not just about morals.
People like Professor Gates know a lot more about moral indignation than about economics and I fear that is also true of the president.MIke K (2cf494) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:13 am
Meanwhile, I think the stereotypically liberal way of looking at an event like this is to focus on Sgt. Crowley, and how he is responsible for the outcome, because his job was to defuse the situation and, to a certain extent, put his natural human reactions to being treated poorly aside, and he failed to do that.
I’m not sure about that.
If this hadn’t been turned into a racial situation, I don’t think anybody would be paying attention.
People are talking about it because Gates and Crowley had a not un-typical police/hostile person interaction which was then blamed on racism. The truth is, anybody who starts yelling at a cop in a tense situation is going to find himself in trouble.MayBee (3ea00e) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:15 am
the only quibble is with your statement that stereotyping leads people to form a firm opinion. That’s not always the case: one may stereotype to establish a starting position which they modify upon gaining information about the specifics of the situation.
For example, someone dressed like a bum comes up to you, you stereotype them as a bum and are prepared to act accordingly but modify your behavior when you discover he is going to a costume party and needs directions.steve sturm (369bc6) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:16 am
JD: I think it’s abundantly clear that Prof. Gates stereotyped Sgt. Crowley. Which is a somewhat elusive way of saying that I agree with almost everything Patterico says in the post. (I don’t agree, entirely, with the last sentence, but the rest of it I can get behind).aphrael (9e8ccd) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:23 am
What some call stereotyping, others call the ability to learn from experience.dchamil (d7877c) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:26 am
In a fair world, Gates would be sentenced to sensitivity training, so he could learn why police officers do what they do. He would be instructed how to properly behave in the presence of police officers.
Would he find such training patronizing? Would he find it condescending? Would he find it insulting?
Welcome to the White Male World.Gregory of Yardale (2d455a) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:27 am
Aphrael, perhaps this helps add context to my comment: as I’ve gotten older and seen more of life, I clearly recognize that we really have very little control of the things around us even though we like to believe otherwise. We are unable to make others bend to our will, make situations give way to what makes us comfortable, etc. And often the only thing we have left is the ability and power to choose how we will respond to said circumstances.
We are often at the mercy of circumstances and situations where more often than not are unable to control them. What we are left with is finding where we can have some control: is there a place to exercise some power?
Because we are free agents, we can in almost everything confronting us, choose to be angry, sad, rational, irrational, emotional, logical, or a combination therein. Of course we are not immune to the external influences and impacts, and levels of maturity, self control, and purpose factors into how we respond, but the point is we are still able to freely choose our response.
In the case of Professor Gates, it is precisely because of his limited ability to control the situation (he wasn’t the one wearing the badge), that he needed to wisely and deliberately think through his response and exercise the limited power he did have – and that power would have been manifested in how he chose to respond.
I don’t see this as a liberal or conservative nor even political. Rather I see it as a very useful tool for life because life is very, very hard and coming up against uncomfortable circumstances we have no control over is the way it often plays out, and while we often can’t control circumstances, it always wise to remember what we do have at hand and in our power.
Professor Gates isn’t a youngster. I believe he understands the power in making a choice in how one responds. He chose but he chose foolishly. And he has to deal with consequences just like any of us.
Perhaps too the police officer chose foolishly by overreacting to Professor Gates accusations of racism. If so, he’ll have consequences too. But the point again is, he had a choice in how to react.Dana (57e332) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:34 am
As Patterico rightly notes this is a simple, yet striking, example of racism; or what has come to be called reverse racism due to Gates’ minority ethnic status.
And that left-eing liberals are falling over themselves to justify Gate’s behavior, and his subsequent demagoguery and open appeal to the race-baiters of society, reveals their hypocrisy with regards to racism…
When I lived in DC, I had the pleasure of spending time with some seasoned police Lieutenants and Sergeants. We all regailed each other with “war stories”, since in their own way each fellow was an amusing raconteur…
They all told stories of busting loud mouths sounding off to them, both at protest, and in more intimate episodes such as the one Gates was involved in…
In the old days in DC, the fine for disorderly conduct was $10. The old policemen used to quip about mouthy individuals amusingly, “Yeah, I’d let them get their ten dollars worth in, and after that they’d get the steel bracelets and a free ride for a short sojourn at the crossbar hotel!”. But underlying this jocularity was one of the tenets of policework; that their authority needed to be respected…
Once, when I asked if they ever got in trouble for doing such things, and wasn’t there are less drastic alternative to arresting them, there was a moment of thoughtful silence. Then Lieutenant Hartford spoke up saying, “Well, no Bob…The only other alternative that the manual provides for disorderly conduct is administering a wooden shampoo!”…
I’d take the inconvenience of arrest and the fine any day!
In closing, I’ll say that while Officer Crowley’s action took place in the heat of the moment, and that thoughful people of all opinions can debate whether that was correct or not, Mr. Gate’s ensuing racial demagoguery and appeal to the grievance mongerers among us is most certainly premeditated and racially motivated as well…
And, Obama? Well he acted criminally in a way too, that is, with felonius stupidity, when he tried to conflate racial profiling with Skip Gates arrest on prime time TV…
Sure got that health care message out, eh?
Certainly not Presidential, more like a pusillanimous palavering popinjay…Bob (99fc1b) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:37 am
Steve, re: your example of meeting a person dressed like a bum. You are exactly correct. That’s why it is terribly unfair of me, when I meet a person dressed in “burglar attire” (as former Congresswoman McKinney puts it) I immediately assume this person is a legislator.
It’s a terrible injustice, I know. But I can’t help myself. I’ve been robbed by legislators all my life.
For all I know, the person in “burglar attire” could be a relatively honest second-story man just looking to feed his family.Gesundheit (47b0b8) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:38 am
And my point would be that he chose the wrong way to react. Having been shown that Gates had the legal right to be in his own house he should have simply left.David Ehrenstein (2550d9) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:38 am
Comment by john Anderson — 7/24/2009 @ 9:53 amThe Emperor (0c8c2c) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:41 am
Stereotyping is saying that people who achieve something for themselves out of sheer hard work and determination did so only because of Affirmative Action. That kind of thinking those not help this discussion. Acknowledge what people have achieved for themselves. You risk making yourself appear like an angry racist who is mad that certain minorities seem to be doing well for themselves. This is at the heart of this current issue. The real issue here is RESPECT. Let it be given to whom it is due.
=yawn= A guy forgets his keys and gets pissed. He’s pissed he has to bust into his own home. Incurs damage. He gets more pissed. Then a cop dutifully arrives, adrenelin pumping, in the guys living room suspecting he has caught a burglar red handed and in a comedy of errors, learns he hasn’t. Sounds like the plot outline for an ‘I Love Lucy’ or ‘I Dream Of Jeannie’ episode. So the cop’s ticked off. The homeowners pissed. Words are exchanged between two ticked off guys and an arrest is made in the guys own house. Call Ricky or Dr. Bellows! Then charges are dropped by the prosecutors office. Fade to credits.
This entire incident is really about anger management. Something which may very well be covered under the public option for police officers and college professors when healthcare is reformed.DCSCA (9d1bb3) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:42 am
I love you you stereotype white liberals as excusing Gate’s behavior.
Not this white liberal!Dude (d229fc) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:44 am
Daley, what you call an “asspull” I call someone’s actual experiences. Unless you’ve had it actually happen to you, I don’t know if you can make wide – ranging claims of whether their stories are false or not. You didn’t grow up here, yet you’re sure that the events I’ve described were not only falsified but never happened in the first place. When you deny someone’s life experiences as fraudulent, you’re not advancing the discussion of the past history of racism in this country, or what it was like for those who had to experience it firsthand. The stories I’ve related to you were from people I’ve known for decades, and I chose to believe them based not only on my personal knowledge of them, but also of the practices that were the MO of the Chicago Police Department during those time periods.
And yes, I did read your initial response to mine, and you made the inaccurate claim that I had intimated that those practices were still widespread, when I specifically did not make such a claim. So in your world, I guess you’d have to call that a major “asspull.” Congrats.Dmac (e6d1c2) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:44 am
A little too much equivalence there? I don’t see any indication that the police officer has an anger management problem. Not even Gates says that the police officer ever raised his voice or acted in a threatening manner. But the police report and the bystanders agree with the characterization of Gates as P.O.ed.Gesundheit (47b0b8) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:45 am
You have no knowledge of whether they are looking for a specific vehicle type or individual..
That’s interesting, since in the instance I cited the cops never made any such claim to the motorists, not a one. Why not, I wonder?Dmac (e6d1c2) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:47 am
“focus on Sgt. Crowley, and how he is responsible for the outcome, because his job was to defuse the situation”
How can he defuse the situation when Gates won’t listen and continues to scream at him and tell him about his mother?
It’s like the story of Socrates and his students, but sinister instead of funny: It’s getting late and Socrates wants to go home. His students want him to stay and say they will not allow him to leave. He says, ‘can’t I use my rhetorical skills to persuade you to allow me to leave?’ They reply that they will simply not listen.
And if a man persists in screaming insults, it seems somewhat understandable that he would be arrested for disorderly conduct. It seems not at all clear that this was a case of “abuse of police power” but instead was something I have seen before: an arrogant and paranoid man who would not behave reasonably or rationally or civily.pst314 (672ba2) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:49 am
I understand that in LA the police routinely handcuff Terry suspects in order to frisk them. Now that is an “abuse of power”. Or an admission of weakness.nk (caf4a2) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:49 am
No oppression, numbnuts, just the courtesy one extends to the owner of the site. Otherwise, it’s called trolling.
dmac, that was hysterical….nice work. Adults “talking” about something that doesn’t concern them and has not changed in the last three days. Yes, talking, not screaming and yelling and blaming and accusing, just having a pleasant dialogue about how important this frivolity is.
dj, YOU are the one who has a demonstrated problem with lawyers. You whined about it incessantly on the earlier post and now you bring it up here again. All’s I’m saying is it must bother you or something.
You got to let go of your resentments, dj, or they will hurt your health or something.
We now return you to dmac’s “adult conversation” between members of a chorus of concerned citizens working themselves into a tizzy over a injustice done to a brave working man by the evil black man and bad pressssidentttt.
Who will set the white man free from this oppression from black intellectuals. Everywhere I go they taunt with their effete elistism and superior opportunity. Woe is the white man.timb (8f04c0) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:52 am
In fact, a man who would not even act in his own best interest, since it is clearly in his best interests to have a police force willing to protect his property. Gates reported that the front door could not be properly secured due to an earlier break-in attempt. Obviously, this is a man who ought to *welcome* the police keeping an eye on his house. But maybe he didn’t call the police after the previous attempt because he didn’t trust “the man”.
There I go, stereotyping again. Certainly all Harvard faculty are not alike.Gesundheit (47b0b8) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:52 am
I thought college professors earned their keep and their position through thoughtful reasoning, careful analysis, and the ability to express themselves accurately and precisely.
Professor Gates instantly retreated to name calling and taunts. I wonder, has he dreamed of such a moment his whole career? It is his moment in the sun where all the BS he has been pretending to be a real academic subject can be brought to bear.
Congratulations Dr. gates. You are a made man.quasimodo (4af144) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:57 am
“you made the inaccurate claim that I had intimated that those practices were still widespread, when I specifically did not make such a claim”
Many decades ago it was common practice for Chicago police to pull over out-of-town motorists, falsely charge them with speeding or running a red light, and shake them down for money. But that was long ago. Times change.pst314 (672ba2) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:57 am
International Man of Patody really enjoys just making things up.JD (4fb388) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:58 am
[…] reading: Patterico’s Pontifications: The Officer Didn’t Stereotype Henry Louis Gates — Henry Louis Gates Stereotyped the Officer Wake Up Black America: A Distinguished Gentleman or Distinguished Fool? Hot Air: How not to win […]Stop Already… Obama Defends His Biased Criticism of Cambridge Police Arresting Prof. Henry Gates « Frugal Café Blog Zone (a66042) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:59 am
Given what we now know about the excitable Dr. Gates, let us think about how he might confront a similar situation in his own classroom. Imagine that during a lecture about the catastrophic impact of AIDS on the Black community, an openly Gay/ Lesbian/ or Transgender student begins shouting at him that he is just another homophobic, gay-bashing Black male. In shrill, unrelenting tones, this student demands that he immediately apologize for this bigoted behavior or he will be reported to Academic Senate, the Tenure Committee, and any other campus or community committee on equal opportunity that will listen. When class finally adjourns, the hectoring doesn’t end. The incensed student then follows Dr. Gates out the door and into the hall where the harangue continues, insulting the professor’s mother along the way.
Can any among us picture Dr. Gates dealing with such a situation in a strictly professional, dispassionate manner? More importantly, would any of us expect him to respond in such a manner or consider him a homophobe if his response was less than completely professional? And finally, should we hold these patrolmen with the C.P.D to a different standard than we would hold this Harvard professor?Neobuzz (dc1323) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:59 am
Police union now demanding apology from the President.
I do have to say, although it’s fun to discuss this stuff, isn’t it time we all get over demanding apologies from everybody? Good grief, grow up already. What good is it going to do Gates for the cop to “apologize” if he’s been coerced into it? What good will it do the cop or the union for the President to apologize?
People can enjoy discussing the thing as the incident du jour, draw their own conclusions, have a good laugh or shake their heads about the other side, and then move on to tomorrow’s entertainment.Gesundheit (47b0b8) — 7/24/2009 @ 11:01 am
Fuck off, creepy little pathetic hatey angry person. I have no problems with lawyers. I have a problem with hatey angry creepy thingies like you. Now crawl back under your rock.JD (4fb388) — 7/24/2009 @ 11:01 am
I think Sergeant Crowley managed his anger very well. Within the bounds of the discretion the law gives him. If he had been the kind of person the prominent Harvard professor claimed he was, the prominent Harvard professor would “have fallen” “while drunk” and managed to make himself “smell of whiskey”. And spent a night in the drunk tank with a 150 other drunk and disorderlies.nk (caf4a2) — 7/24/2009 @ 11:04 am
nk, you are from Chicago, right?quasimodo (4af144) — 7/24/2009 @ 11:10 am
What does this incident suggest about the judgement of the CIC of the US Armed Forces who also has his hand on “The Button”?jim2 (6482d8) — 7/24/2009 @ 11:15 am
doubt this is an original point, but this episode also illustrates how utterly useless universities (and perhaps Ivy League in particular) are in preparing people to deal with real life. Gates spends his entire life in academia and he doesn’t know what to do when encountering a cop?steve sturm (369bc6) — 7/24/2009 @ 11:18 am
Well I was born and raised in the south and I did not ever enter into anything close to racism. My mom worked in a white owned drug store in a black neighborhood. My friends where black and we played and had fun. Then in the 60’s I moved to Chicago & was introduced to racism. Let’s turn this incident into racism and get the blame and attention off me. Well it is a fact that most people locked up today did not do the crime they have been arrested for.
Just another form of I am not guilty because I am a black man arrested by a white cop. That is the bottom line most blacks have more predigest in their little finger than I do in my whole body however whites are the ones that are predigest.JW (e538d8) — 7/24/2009 @ 11:27 am
nk, you are from Chicago, right?
Comment by quasimodo — 7/24/2009 @ 11:10 am
Yes, I am. But I have had only two bad encounters with the police — one time they shook me down for $20.00 to avoid a ticket I deserved, and another time they thought they could shake me down because I was driving an ’87 Cutlass Supreme and they thought I was some illegal whom they could shake down and they found out that I was not so they gave me a “ran a stop sign ticket” to cover themselves.
But I have ridden along with two detectives, looking for a seven-year old girl childnapped by her estranged father, and they kicked down a door for me, and we went to the next address, and then the next, and she was back with her mother before the day was over. And I met the same detectives in felony drug a little bit later, and we sat in the jury box together, and we grouched about how slowly the judge was moving his call.nk (caf4a2) — 7/24/2009 @ 11:36 am
Racism is the most overused word in the U.S.
I say that because, as far as I can tell, the vast majority of libs – and, sadly, some conservatives – put their fellow Americans into one of two classes: saints or stone-cold racists.
In other words, you’re either a perfect human being who has never had so much as a bad thought about “other” races, or you’re the cross-burning Grand Dragon-in-waiting of the KKK who carries a rope in your briefcase … you know, just in case.
If we are to ever have a truly honest debate on race, we must admit that there is a HUGE difference between racism and prejudice, and that there are an infinite number of “degrees” that exist between racism and prejudice.
In other words, everything is not black and white (no pun intended). For example, just because a white guy doesn’t want to socialize with a black guy doesn’t necessarily mean the white guy wants to see the black guy hanging from a tree.
For the most part, people of various races, genders, sexual orientations, etc., form their beliefs and opinions based on their individual life experiences. If you have had consistently “bad experiences” with a particular “group” – whether it’s the police, black people, or the hosts of “The View” – those experiences are going to affect your way of thinking. It’s a defense mechanism that is part of the human condition.
Of course, many people will go out of their way to excuse the “attitudes” of black people (and certain other “groups”), but they automatically condemn any such “attitudes” expressed by white people.
Well, whether they admit or not, that in itself is a form of racism – or maybe it’s “just” prejudice – because they are holding blacks (and certain other “groups”) to a different (i.e., lower) standard than whites.
To summarize: I am not suggesting that the various forms of racism and prejudice displayed by ANY “group” be ignored, although these attitudes will continue to exist as long as human beings roam the planet.
What I am saying is that there can be no honest debate of the “situation” until more people start to look at “things” from the other guy’s point of view, and that any discussion should benefit from reasoned analysis as opposed to hysterical cries of “racism”.Bubba Maximus (456175) — 7/24/2009 @ 11:38 am
eh?quasimodo (4af144) — 7/24/2009 @ 11:38 am
it that like Ensure or Boost?quasimodo (4af144) — 7/24/2009 @ 11:40 am
is not it
dohquasimodo (4af144) — 7/24/2009 @ 11:41 am
Obama, “I fucked up. My bad. Let’s forget about it.”HeavenSent (01a566) — 7/24/2009 @ 11:41 am
Of course, the later above could be because of my white skin (actually pinkish beige), and not because my parents worked their fingers to the bone to put me through college and law school so I would at least know how to the police.nk (caf4a2) — 7/24/2009 @ 11:42 am
*how to talk to* the policenk (caf4a2) — 7/24/2009 @ 11:45 am
Translation: The White Race is Perfect in All Things.David Ehrenstein (2550d9) — 7/24/2009 @ 11:45 am
But that was long ago. Times change.
I agree completely – and my original point (which I obviously failed to get across adequately) was that if you had grown up within that type of environment over the course of many decades, you could be partially excused for having a bit of a problem (or fear in most cases) when the police pull you over for something that may not appear to be a valid reason, in your opinion. If I had grown up with a background like some of my friends, I think I would’ve had a definite attitude problem towards the law enforcement community in many instances. That in no way means that I would be justified in mouthing off or engaging in behavior that would be disrespectful towards the police, but it would still be hard not to hold a grudge.
I’ve not defending prima donnas like Gates, who’ve made their bones from day one by screaming “wacists!” over and over, without any demonstrable reasons. I was attempting to discuss why a person of a certain age with a history of unreliable encounters with the police could cop an attitude, so to speak. I think it’s hard to judge people in a black and white world (no pun intended) at times when you haven’t had the opportunity to walk in their shoes.Dmac (e6d1c2) — 7/24/2009 @ 11:53 am
Let’s see. Is there a list of which people and nations to which the President is willing to apologize? I’m just curious, because it sure looked like the man was willing to apologize to some very bad people.Eric Blair (0b61b2) — 7/24/2009 @ 11:53 am
In Obama’s Amerika, racism profiles you!Ray (3c46ca) — 7/24/2009 @ 11:58 am
The president just had an impromptu conference and made a statement about his original statement re Professor Gates issue.
A semi-back pedal and justification/explanation. A “teaching moment” as he called it.
No apology though – he may have already used up this month’s quota or perhaps at the end of the day it’s just easier to apologize to thugs and dictators rather than honorable men. The former just requires foolishness, the latter, humility.Dana (57e332) — 7/24/2009 @ 11:58 am
True enough, Dana. I don’t “read” much humility from the President.
And I am still irritable over his willingness to “apologize” to thugs, but not “own” his own mistakes (like supposedly being unaware of the racist ravings of Reverend Wright, over a couple of decades—he should have said that he just didn’t take that kind of thing seriously).Eric Blair (0b61b2) — 7/24/2009 @ 12:01 pm
‘What good will it do the cop or the union for the President to apologize?’
Cops have a very difficult job, and part of why is that our nation’s racial problems are constantly revitalized by race hustlers. Blacks are very untrusting of cops, and it’s a two way street that is in a recursive cycle.
When the president called the cops stupid, he made an impact on a new generation of black kids and other Americans who disrespect cops more than they did. It’s not the end of the world, but cops are constantly dealing with the public and PR is a critical issue for all police departments in America.
What Barack did made the situation a lot worse. Some people in Cambridge will absolutely treat their cops a lot differently. Every cop there dealing with a minority is on eggshells, perhaps.
An apology wouldn’t undo that, but it would make clear that this wasn’t stupidity. It was a judgment call (by Crowley) that is completely legal and understandable.
NK, I had an 87 Cutlass. I guess it’s a very common car for the time. Probably not a good car in the Chicago’s weather. I can’t find the thread where I last commented to you because there are 1000 threads on here about this incident, so if you did reply, I’m not ignoring it… just too busy to find it. You had suggested I’m not an attorney (but didn’t say why). I am, actually. Did you attend Northwestern? If so, when did you graduate?
I wanted to note that law is a field with dramatic ranges of talent. For all you know, I’m a traffic court defender with a degree from Cooley Law Schooley. I never understand why law students and lawyers say ‘you’re clearly not a lawyer’. Always seemed a lot like the ‘Call me Doctor’ pridefulness.
I also was kinda dismayed by your experiences with cops. Did you ever try to do anything about it later? Sounds like you might work for a prosector if you did a couple of ridealongs.Juan (bd4b30) — 7/24/2009 @ 12:03 pm
I generally can’t stand the PO-PO. Many are scum bags and I would not trust many within 2 feet of my family. Most PO-PO I know are High School losers who needed a job and this was the path of least resistance.
They are donut eating mediocres who like to use their position of authority to get free pizza and speed past red lights with impunity.
With that said, when they tell me to pull over or open the door, I do, and I do it nicely. I show respect for the uniform even if I know the dude is probably a jerk off. I also realise they are doing this for a reason and if respecful things don’t get out of control.
Guys like Gates, they deserve a beat down. They want the law to protect them but have no respect for it when it doesn’t break their way. So they shout racism and make a hubabalu b/c they know the distraction takes away from their Duocheness.HeavenSent (01a566) — 7/24/2009 @ 12:04 pm
Well, well – wonder of wonders, the black officer who was also at the scene supports the officer’s report:
They have every right to demand a retraction from Gates and Obama, and if they don’t get one pronto, I hope they keep the pressure on. A teachable moment for both of these pompous men, to be sure.Dmac (e6d1c2) — 7/24/2009 @ 12:08 pm
dmac, that black cop will be slurred as an Uncle Tom… sad but true.
Also true is that if Crowley had anything in his record that made him look bad… a couple of accusations, a bad call or two, whatever, we’d have heard about it. The best they have is that he didn’t resurrect Reggie Lewis. Seems like a really clean cop.Juan (bd4b30) — 7/24/2009 @ 12:12 pm
Cops have a very easy job.
They have guns.
They can kill you whenever they feel like it.David Ehrenstein (2550d9) — 7/24/2009 @ 12:15 pm
He is a white cop. That is all bigots need to know!
Call Internal Affairs.HeavenSent (01a566) — 7/24/2009 @ 12:16 pm
Will Big Al and Jesse get to Beantown any time soon? A little shakie down to cover some Op Expenses during the bad economy?HeavenSent (01a566) — 7/24/2009 @ 12:17 pm
Racism is not a fantasy enjoyed by Liberal University professors. It is real. It has a history. And it’s STILL operative in American life.
And cut the “it goes both ways” crap!David Ehrenstein (2550d9) — 7/24/2009 @ 12:17 pm
Comment by Juan — 7/24/2009 @ 12:03 pm
Your comment was, and I answered it here. Honestly, I would have said “criminal lawyer”.
Sounds like you might work for a prosector if you did a couple of ridealongs.
Nope. I was a private attorney doing the case pro bono. I knocked on a judge’s door and got an ex parte protective order. I drove to the CPD area headquarters and got to talk to the Detective Lieuteant. He said, “These orders are enforced by the Sheriff”. I don’t remember exactly what I said, something along the lines “Please”. He said, “Ok, I’ll assign you two detectives”. I said “God bless you”.nk (caf4a2) — 7/24/2009 @ 12:20 pm
by the way, I didn’t go to Northwestern myself… I went to the one with the sunflowers and the white suits and the engineering students ransacking our library of dog-duck statues. But a very memorable character in my class transferred up to Northwestern.Juan (bd4b30) — 7/24/2009 @ 12:24 pm
Over at Poliitico, the word is that the President called Officer Crowley. Here is what the President said:
That’s as close to an apology as we are likely to get, I think.
Maybe he will think before he reacts during press conferences after this?Eric Blair (0b61b2) — 7/24/2009 @ 12:27 pm
[…] I’ve ever seen they are saying that Obama has handled this exactly right. I’m hope Patterico & Sister Toldjah weren’t drinking when they saw […]The President runs for cover on Gates « DaTechguy’s Blog (8246d7) — 7/24/2009 @ 12:33 pm
#137- “That’s as close to an apology as we are likely to get, I think.”
Oh, my.DCSCA (9d1bb3) — 7/24/2009 @ 12:34 pm
Eric, to me it sounds like Obama didn’t have the backbone complain about racial profiling to the cop’s face.
that’s what America will remember. Obama answered a question about this by talking about what a problem racist cops are. but Obama also didn’t have the guts to say anything directly.
Nice to know that 59 year old men with canes can’t be arrested. I have a bad knee myself. Just need to wait a bit and I’ll be able to commit the perfect crime.Juan (bd4b30) — 7/24/2009 @ 12:34 pm
Comment by DCSCA — 7/24/2009 @ 12:34 pm
If anything, Obama needs to apologize to the American people directly. It’s us he’s hurting worst when he undermines our police with baseless and disgusting slurs. And when he started moaning about racial profiling, the message got through loud and clear: Obama hates cops.Juan (bd4b30) — 7/24/2009 @ 12:36 pm
Loyola, Chicago. Tuition $4,000.00/year, books less than a $1,000.00. Within public transit. When I graduated I did not pay off student loans, I bought a car.nk (caf4a2) — 7/24/2009 @ 12:38 pm
You really are funny, DCSCA. And you have a sense of humor, too.Eric Blair (0b61b2) — 7/24/2009 @ 12:39 pm
Juan, putting aside the IMP (with his self-important tales of derring do, most of which are internally inconsistent), I think you are correct. The President has spent his life trying straddle fences. He needed Reverend Wright in Chicago, but didn’t want to admit to what he heard there. He wanted to make campaign promise, but found that he realistically couldn’t follow through. The list goes on.
That sort of works for Representatives and Senators. It doesn’t work for the POTUS. Hopefully, he will own what he says, good and bad. Because “everyone” isn’t going to love him no matter what he does anymore.
The national stage is where things get real, and the President will have to deal with genuine criticism, which I suspect he has not done very often in the past.Eric Blair (0b61b2) — 7/24/2009 @ 12:45 pm
I looked over the non-apology and I don’t see how this doesn’t make it worse.
Obama grants that his words maligned Crowley and his department, but Obama isn’t apologizing for that? Obama’s the president of the USA and his careless words have had a tremendous impact on Crowley’s life. Obama is just calling to say ‘yep, I know I did that!’.
You’re right that Obama’s basic problem is that he is unwilling to take a clear stand, own the downside and the upside, and just let the American people absorb the truth. It’s the opposite of Bush.
Pelosi is saying that this isn’t ‘government run health care’ and is banning republicans from calling it that. Congress can get away with that because Pelosi would be kicked out of SF if she didn’t take very possible measure to hurt the GOP. But the President is not the leader of his political party… he’s Crowley’s president as much as he’s Gates’s.Juan (bd4b30) — 7/24/2009 @ 12:49 pm
True, Juan. Straddling a fence often causes pain in the…well, you get the idea.
It’s always better to own the situation. Bad and good.
If the President had said “I know Professor Gates, and I reacted off the cuff because of my friendship with him. I should have been much more thoughtful and not commented at that time,” I don’t think many people would be all that upset.
We have all been there, defending a friend without getting all the facts. Now there is mess. It’s the whole fence straddling thing that happyfeet could express with more humor than I have (he does have a way with words!).Eric Blair (0b61b2) — 7/24/2009 @ 1:01 pm
Gates was needlessly confrontational. Crowley probably has no reason to apologize.
But why does an officer “have more rights” on a porch and why can’t a homeowner present ID without leaving the house as a false alarm is confirmed? Is there something about a door threshold that obtains in a disorderly conduct case?steve (b4904d) — 7/24/2009 @ 1:08 pm
Err, steve, the sergeant was trying to deescalate the situation. It seems to me he did not want to fight in the man’s house.nk (caf4a2) — 7/24/2009 @ 1:13 pm
You ever got into a fender-bender and the police do a situation report and they just give you a sheet with an RD number, a short narrative, and the reporting officer’s name and badge number?nk (caf4a2) — 7/24/2009 @ 1:17 pm
I agree, and i think that Gates should also issue an apology towards crowley. It seems like it is ok for a black person to call a white person racist, however it is not ok for a white person to call a black person racist. However sad it is, I beleive that obama, deval patrick and of course gates are truly the ones being racist in this case and they should ALL apologize to crowley. This officer was just doing his job trying to protect people and now this happens to him…This whole story would not have been made so public if the PRESIDENT of THE UNITED STATES of AMERICA had just said NO COMMENT. The president still will not flat out apologize. I think that his true character is beginning to show. Bush would have never commented on a case like this, because he had more important things to worry about……winning a war in Iraqrt (0aa5d3) — 7/24/2009 @ 1:50 pm
Obama goes Sotomayor:
“The fact that it has garnered so much attention, I think, is a testimony to the fact that these are issues that are still very sensitive here in America.”
That should be testament.Official Internet Data Office (6ac5ad) — 7/24/2009 @ 1:57 pm
It seems to me he did not want to fight in the man’s house.
He might have more witnesses outside, too.
If Sgt. Crowley thought Gates’ story and ID were bogus, I take it he had every right to go inside and look around. It might have meant calling for back-up.
But Gates thought the officer would “have more rights” if he stepped outside. Is there any basis for that? Is a disorderly conduct case facilitated across a door threshold?steve (ce670d) — 7/24/2009 @ 1:58 pm
dmac, that black cop will be slurred as an Uncle Tom… sad but true.
Yeah, I immediately thought the exact same thing – the blood’s in the water, and no one (especially traitors to their race) will stand in the way of the meme.
I’m still in awe over a POTUS actually getting involved with such a trivial matter in a direct and public manner. Obama is quickly losing his entire backstory of “post – racial candidate.” He’s harkening back towards attitudes last expressed about 20 years with this stunt, conservatively.Dmac (e6d1c2) — 7/24/2009 @ 2:02 pm
Obama is really a racist. That’s how he got to be President. 🙂The Emperor (1b037c) — 7/24/2009 @ 2:13 pm
But Gates thought the officer would “have more rights” if he stepped outside. Is there any basis for that? Is a disorderly conduct case facilitated across a door threshold?
Comment by steve — 7/24/2009 @ 1:58 pm
I think it was just the sergeant respecting the man’s home.nk (caf4a2) — 7/24/2009 @ 2:33 pm
It might have made a difference, steve and nk, although I doubt that’s why Crowley asked Gates to go outside. (I think the police commenters are right when they describe Crowley’s request as based on tactical and safety issues.) However, assuming the disorderly conduct charges were brought pursuant to the Cambridge MA City Code, Section 9.08.010 seems to limit charges to behavior in a street, public place, private way or park. A front porch or walkway might be included in that definition but I don’t think a personal residence would be.DRJ (6f3f43) — 7/24/2009 @ 2:57 pm
Look up David Axelrod and the Philly Mayoral election between John Street and Sam Katz. Axelrod is no stranger to playing the race card. Street is running for re-election and as part of a “normal” sweep for electronic listening devices in THE MAYOR’S (Street’s)OFFICE; an FBI bug is found. (NB….i wonder how normal it is to sweep for bugs in elected officals offices….)Axelrod is Street’s campaign manager. Next thing you know, it’s GWBush and the FBI hatin’ on the black man. And Street wins re-election. If you weren’t from Philly, you probably wouldn’t know this story. It certainly was not mentioned during the presidential election!!!rudytbone (81fe1f) — 7/24/2009 @ 3:20 pm
I’m thinking a little about profiling.
On the one hand, it is an evolutionary necessity.
It is hardwired into our brains to ensure survival and/or self replication.
On the other hand we have the capability to process information much deeper than the level of skin.
Honing our capabilities to decipher surface information brings us process and understanding of even better “tells” which enter our knowledge base and improve our common survival skills.
We will acquire the capability to process more and more deeper/relevant tells quicker and quicker.
Society as a whole is not well served by allowing a collective group of; let’s say, all crimson people, to opt out of the process.
But society is also poorly served by applying only the most rudimentary of skills upon the collective group.
I’d like to dismiss the feelings of people within the collective who protest against participation, but we need people of all groups to be invested in the growth of knowledge, and feelings play a large role in a persons willingness to join into the process.
Reaching back into the tell archive, I remember a very old one that translates something like “I think he might be protesting too much”SteveG (97b6b9) — 7/24/2009 @ 4:03 pm
Dr. Gates may have done just that… particularly since we have learned to record nearly everything in our quest to see right things done right
Gates made himself into a public nuisance. And a police sergeant, with the authority to do so, abated it with an arrest within the bounds of his authority and within the bounds of the law.nk (77d95e) — 7/24/2009 @ 4:34 pm
It never ceases to amaze how those who day in and day out complain like Bachmann clones about the jack-booted thugs coming to put them all in internment camps because they are not politically correct or because they think ACORN is a secret police organization.
Crowley is the one, the professional, who allowed this to escalate. If this situation were about a dumbass cracker you clowns would be screaming about the Gestapo and the black helicopters. Why is it too much to ask our professional police to act like professionals?
And as for the asswipes from Boston who are so offended, we’ll take you seriously the next time you take the killing of an innocent by one of your officers seriously. Deal? I didn’t think so.
No wonder you people supported Bush and then Palin, you’re too damned stupid to recognize reality from fantasy.HumboldtBlue (2c7725) — 7/24/2009 @ 4:48 pm
Barack Obama says Crowley is his new bff drinking buddy Mr. Humboldt you big silly! You’re just perpetuating teh racial divisiveness. Simmer down.happyfeet (71f55e) — 7/24/2009 @ 4:57 pm
And that (#160), ladies and gentlemen, shows the divide between the Left and the Right.
Our trollish friend from the Left believes that people can be judged or excused on the basis of group identity.
People on the Right tend to look at the behavior and responsibility of the individual in question.
There are always exceptions, but look at the post above. Pitch-perfect!
I mean, we are learning more and more about what actually happened. Why is it too much for professional police to act like professionals?
Why is it too much for a academic who has spent his entire career looking for racist subtexts to act more like a professional?
The answer? It wouldn’t give Professor Gates the media attention he enjoys now, and the book/documentary cred he needs.
The police officer? Trying to do his job, while this “academic” insults his mother. I recommend that HumboldtBlue go insult a police officer tonight. Use the same language, and see what happens.
Anyway, I am fine if folks want to insist that Crowley should have acted differently. I just want those people to admit that Gates acted like a jackass. And a self-serving jackass at that.
I love how Gates wants to “educate” Crowley about racism. I have a better idea. Why doesn’t Gates do a few drivealongs with the police (including the black officer who is on record stating that Gates was acting bizarre)?
“…too damned stupid…”?
Yeah, you betcha that seems like more projection. Silly trolls.Eric Blair (0b61b2) — 7/24/2009 @ 5:04 pm
Mr. Feet, you should repost your solution to this whole mess. The one involving iced tea and BBQ brisket. That would do more for racial harmony than any number of seminar classes or media interviews.Eric Blair (0b61b2) — 7/24/2009 @ 5:05 pm
Humboldt has to be kidding. Nobody is that dense.Mike K (2cf494) — 7/24/2009 @ 5:12 pm
David Ehrenstein sez:
That must be an amusing sight: a buncha white guys on a tub.
Let me assume that he meant “tube” and note that the AP sez:
Back to you, David!Patterico (cc3b34) — 7/24/2009 @ 5:43 pm
That’s different, Patterico! Besides, there is some French movie you need to see to understand racism. And you’re white and can’t understand anyway.
Don’t confuse him with the “multiracial” business. It will get ugly, fast.Eric Blair (92df48) — 7/24/2009 @ 5:51 pm
Maybe “Teh Narrative” IS a stereotype?Eric Blair (92df48) — 7/24/2009 @ 5:54 pm
” BTW, the Cambridge Police Union (each and every one white as snow) are on the tub right now demanding that Obama apologize to them.”
So maybe this is a big leftist plot to get the right wing behind public employee unions.imdw (f41ee5) — 7/24/2009 @ 6:00 pm
[…] Stories – 26th // “The Officer Didn’t Stereotype Henry Louis Gates — Henry Louis Gates Stereotyped the O…patterico.com […]Top Stories – 26th (6e5acd) — 7/24/2009 @ 6:46 pm
The photo I saw had white looking guys, Asian looking guys, black guys, and a guy in a really big suit.
No women in sight…. because of the racism of course….SteveG (97b6b9) — 7/24/2009 @ 6:46 pm
The author does not understand the real definition of racism. Racism is an inherent idea that one race is genetically superior to another; not based on stereotypes or history. It is an idea that holds one groups(s) of people genetically inferior to another. Stereotyping and bigotry are normal common reactions based on experiences and history. Everyone is bigoted in one way or another, as do they create stereotypes; neither of which are wrong initially. “I hate black people” is not a racist statement; just as “I hate fat people” is not a racist comment, they are both bigoted statements.
When this country learns that 99% of what we believe to be problems of racism are in fact problems of culture, than we will finish this mess of race relations.Travis (c3e932) — 7/24/2009 @ 6:59 pm
“Liberals Ought Not To Applauding Such Stereotyping — They Should Be Fighting it”…
Patterico writes (emphasis in original), “The Officer Didn’t Stereotype Henry Louis Gates — Henry Louis Gates Stereotyped the Officer”:Ed Driscoll (a3d746) — 7/24/2009 @ 7:01 pm
Henry Louis Gates stereotyped Sgt. Crowley. He formed an opinion about Sgt. Crowley based on evidence th…
The article infers that only white prejudice against blacks is racism.SteveP (8c17aa) — 7/24/2009 @ 7:02 pm
It’s a fact that the reverse-black prejudice against whites-is also racism.
It isn’t reverse racism either, it’s simply racism.
Gates demonstrated that he is a virulent racist.
The neighbors called the police be/c two men were seen forcing their way into a home. That is why the police responded. The appropriate thing to do there is to verify the identity of the person who forced their way in.
Gates is an ass. He should be grateful he has neighbors who noticed someone forcing his door and called the police to protect his home, even when they obviously did not know him personally. He should be grateful the police responded quickly and verified who was in the house – if it HAD been a prowler, he would be grateful.
The normal response would be to give the officer your id, let him verify who you are and say, “Hey, thanks for getting here so quickly. Everything is okay.”
Berating the officer for showing up to protect your house is asinine, no matter what stupid political racist bias inspires it.Ace (730c68) — 7/24/2009 @ 7:08 pm
key point in the police report. officer asks for ID. Gates gives hime Harvard ID (and I assume that does not have an address on it). Officer then radios for Harvard U Police (probably to verify gates). That act probably further enrages Gates “do you know who I am” mechanism…..Rich (a6bbdd) — 7/24/2009 @ 7:14 pm
But..but…but….Gates CAN’T be a racist. He’s black! Or so goes the liberal mantra.GarandFan (289ff1) — 7/24/2009 @ 7:34 pm
Don’t confuse him with the “multiracial” business. It will get ugly, fast.
Indeed, Eric. To David Ehrenstein and his ilk, race and racism are simply weapons to be used to beat up the political opposition, facts be damned.
If David is so concerned about racism, why does he never condemn the many racists that continue to exist within the Democratic Party? The answer is simple: they pray to the false god of progressive statism, so all sins are forgiven.Mike LaRoche (d83224) — 7/24/2009 @ 7:36 pm
“The neighbors called the police be/c two men were seen forcing their way into a home. That is why the police responded. The appropriate thing to do there is to verify the identity of the person who forced their way in.
Gates is an ass. He should be grateful he has neighbors who noticed someone forcing his door and called the police to protect his home, even when they obviously did not know him personally. He should be grateful the police responded quickly and verified who was in the house – if it HAD been a prowler, he would be grateful.
The normal response would be to give the officer your id, let him verify who you are and say, “Hey, thanks for getting here so quickly. Everything is okay.”
Berating the officer for showing up to protect your house is asinine, no matter what stupid political racist bias inspires it.”
Exactly why its important to focus on this stuff rather than the arrest.imdw (47f2be) — 7/24/2009 @ 7:37 pm
Being black means you can’t be racist.Dajida (7d0bb7) — 7/24/2009 @ 7:38 pm
Being black means you get to be treated like trash. Harvard or no Harvard. Just don’t act “Skippish”.The Emperor (1b037c) — 7/24/2009 @ 7:55 pm
Hank Gates, or is Rev Dr Henry Gates, Esq, isn’t racist.
Neither s the esteemable rev Dr Jeremiah “Jerry” Wright, a swishy pontificator that our President counted as his most trusted spiritual advisor.
And we can also believe that Barry and Shelly also aren’t racist against whites.
Sure we can.Rev. Dr. E. Buzz Miller (72836b) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:06 pm
hardly befitting a Harvard professor
Which crazy standard are you using, P? The one where Harvard professors are expected to think clearly and logically?
‘Cuz that is so, like, Eighteenth Century. In this, the 21st Century of Progress, Harvard professors are expected to behave exactly as Gates behaved.
Great analysis, BTW. Spot on.dicentra (5fbaa0) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:24 pm
Oddly, however, many black people feel perfectly comfortable engaging in a similar form of stereotyping
I’m less interested in whether the people at the center of this controversy are black or white (or anything else). By contrast, I’m far, far more interested in whether their belief system is of the left or right.
I actually was giving a tiny bit of benefit of the doubt to ultra-“lefty” Gates when I toyed with the notion that the officer who arrested him perhaps was an asshole with a badge. And that the cop possibly also was of the right, if not ultra-right.
But after getting below the surface of the story, I never should have felt even a fraction of ambivalence as to whether the only asshole in the fracas was Gates. And that if the cop was of the right, it would have been a reference to the hand he favored for writing, and nothing else. Certainly when the officer was quoted as saying that, even in light of the comments from the loudmouth in the White House, he still supported the guy, he still was giving a pass to our ultra-“lefty” president.
Come to think of it, maybe the cop is so deficient in common sense that he did misconstrue the goodness or badness of Henry Gates, so the extremely “progressive” academician, for all we know, may be purer than the driven snow. After all, when people of the left are at the center of almost any story or event, so much can end up distorted and twisted by them.
BTW, the guy in the White House lost any right to judge others — or certainly lost any credibility he might otherwise have had — when he was blowing kisses to Jeremiah Wright for years and years.Mark (411533) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:29 pm
Racism has gotten worse since the election and this situation – well it ain’t gonna make it better! Obama showed a true lack of character in this matter.
http://speakmymindblog.com/2009/07/24/racism-victims-democrats-and-cowards/Sherry (1e87f3) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:42 pm
I am sick of the racism that has flowered in this nation since Obama has been elected and the way he is nuturuing it. Everyone should read his speech to the NAACP to see how he promotes racism.Thomas Jackson (8ffd46) — 7/24/2009 @ 8:55 pm
Sadly, Paterico has already done the leftist’s dirty work for them.
He calls Leftists ‘liberals’. That is already a battle lost. They are not ‘liberal’ or ‘progressive’ by any definition of the terms.
Yet, conservatives call them this. Foolishly.Toads (75ca40) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:24 pm
It’s not about race. It’s about class.Jim Treacher (796deb) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:25 pm
Gates runs an electronic newspaper, don’tcha know.
Blacks only need apply (no journalists of pale color work for his company).
http://www.theroot.comblackonly (79ea5f) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:26 pm
Funny, as an Indian-American, I have never had a problem with white cops pulling me over, mistreating me, etc.
I am a person of color, of course. But my group is known to be harmless.
So perhaps it is not about race, but rather about statistical incidence of crime by group????GK (75ca40) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:27 pm
Mr Treacher, #194: indeed you are correct. And in Professor Gates’ case, both definitions of the word apply.Eric Blair (204104) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:34 pm
Skippy tried so hard not to get upset cause he knew all the trouble he’d get and he said that tears were something to hide and something to fear and he tried so hard to keep it inside so no one could hear.
FAILhappyfeet (c75712) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:35 pm
Mr. “Magic Negro” Ehrenstein said, as a white man:
Translation: The White Race is Perfect in All Things.
Mr. King said:
I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.
Maybe, just maybe, as a united country should listen to what the man said.Ag80 (a71b80) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:38 pm
Translation: The White Race is Perfect in All Things.
Translation: David Ehrenstein is a troll.Mike LaRoche (d83224) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:48 pm
Professor LaRoche, this will just wind the guy up, and then he’ll go over the top with personal attacks, and then Patterico will have to police him some more.
Mr Ehrenstein knows very well he is writing out of anger and exaggeration. “Bile” is a good word. I know that the man can write excellent prose and be very decent. Just not when this kind of mood takes him.
We are just lucky we aren’t getting all the foreign movie references.Eric Blair (204104) — 7/24/2009 @ 9:56 pm
I’m a WHITE college professor. I’ve had lots of experience with white cops — as a prosecutor, public defender, and police commission member. Professor Gates was simply doing “profiling.”
Since 75% plus of cops (white or black) ARE prejudiced against Blacks, his profiling was dead on. Unless Gates was willing to “uncle Tom” his attitude, he needed to project strength and power in order to cause the cops to realize he wasn’t an 18 year-old youth whose attitude they could “adjust” with intimidation and a billy club. If he’d been White, the “don’t fu*k with me” attitude would have worked (it always has for me, BTW). Cops have great instincts for who is on the top side of the power curve. They act accordingly.Big Boy (189b6e) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:00 pm
Professor LaRoche, this will just wind the guy up, and then he’ll go over the top with personal attacks, and then Patterico will have to police him some more.
True, Eric. It’s a never-ending cycle.
We are just lucky we aren’t getting all the foreign movie references.
…or all the showtune lyrics.Mike LaRoche (d83224) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:04 pm
It’s OK. The left is cool with Racism, as long as it is in their approved direction.Jeff B. (ee0a8d) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:12 pm
No, Professor Gates isn’t an 18 year old youth. He is a 58 year old well respected professor who has to use a cane. Too bad the only way to project strength and power is with “yo momma” comments.
I guess that neither he nor you have spent any time watching “Cops” or talking to police officers.
I sure do smell some degree of elitism here. I could be wrong, naturally. But yelling at people with billy clubs, cuffs, and guns is a really good way to either get hurt, or make a huge scene that gets you in the public eye, especially when you make your living accusing others of racism…
Hey, wait a minute…Eric Blair (204104) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:12 pm
Nobody goes to their own front door with a crowbar, and a big strong black “buddy.” With an aim to enter by forcing the door.
Now what if Gates’ wife tossed him out, and changed the locks? He still doesn’t have permission to bust through that door! And, I’d bet Obama has already heard the tapes. And, saw the cop did the right thing. And, that it was stupid of the president to play the race card. Just like Nifong.Carol Herman (0ef508) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:26 pm
The race card is now overdrawn.
An esteemed professor in our most famous university, living in a city with a black mayor, in a state with a black governor, in a country with a black president, cannot, without embarrassment, play this card anymore.Thomas Hazlewood (11ca12) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:30 pm
I believe racial profiling and unequal application of drug laws constitute a serious problem for the black community.
Gates was no victim; he was the one who saw race. I can’t get in the cop’s head but seeing that he teaches a class on racial profiling and is a progressive Obama supporter gives him a LOT of credibility and breathing room for me.
I have a lot of respect for Professor Gates but I am losing it quickly over his bullsh*ttery this week.TheDarkness (235983) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:41 pm
Just watch him, Thomas. Just watch him.Eric Blair (204104) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:42 pm
=yawn= There’s a lot to be said when a member of the Harvard faculty does a public rant on race. Specifically, one Tom Lehrer and his diddy titled, “National Brotherhood Week.”
Picture Gates, Crowley, Rushbo, Billo, et al, ‘hannity in hannity’ as it were, singing,
“Step up and shake the hand;
Of someone you can’t stand;
You can tolerate him if you try.”
http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/National-Brotherhood-Week-lyrics-Tom-Lehrer/625DBDA1F04F231148256A7D0025A2FCDCSCA (9d1bb3) — 7/24/2009 @ 10:44 pm
Briefly, it’s true that we need to stereotype to survive — but we should also recognize the limitations of stereotyping and TRY to treat people as individuals WHEN POSSIBLE. Also recognize that NEGATIVE stereotyping is the most likely to be offensive, so when it’s not necessary for survival or other important reasons it’s best to TRY to avoid it.
The trick, P, is to make stereotypes based on the optional behavior of others (how they dress, how they present themselves), and not stereotype about things they have no control over (gender, race, age).GEAH (e7b29c) — 7/24/2009 @ 11:06 pm
“…in fact, I have been robbed by three separate black people in my life.”
If that didn’t affect your racial perspectives, then you would be some kind of imbecile.Shrewsbury (88f599) — 7/24/2009 @ 11:27 pm
Are you forming a firm opinion about Gates quickness to leap to unflattering conclusions because of your past experiences with black people, as well as things you have heard about black people?Peter K. Boucher (d35b28) — 7/24/2009 @ 11:31 pm
I think it would have been better to simply say “…yet another reminder of how quickly some people are to leap to unflattering conclusions…”
How about forming a firm opinion about Gates’ quickness to leap to unflattering conclusions because of his behavior?Stashiu3 (ed6467) — 7/24/2009 @ 11:46 pm
I believe racial profiling and unequal application of drug laws constitute a serious problem for the black community.
I believe the black community is far, far more paralyzed by the empty-headed leftism that runs rampant throughout it. A mentality where common sense is in painfully short supply. A mentality so neurotic, so foolish, so very much on full display over these past 2 days by Gates and Obama.Mark (411533) — 7/25/2009 @ 12:01 am
Comment #202 to Big Boy:
ooooooohhh, you’re a WHITE college professor; oooooh, I’m impressed. LOL! Just goes to show you liberals have big, cocky attitudes (esp. the so-called ‘professionals’) and think they’re above the law. Ooooooooh, I bet you’d really scare the cops away! LOL!brendy (d0d8f4) — 7/25/2009 @ 12:24 am
The race baiting business will flourish under Obama, not diminish.
We may wake up from a collective national hangover and vote out Obama, but at what cost in the mean time?Scott (959537) — 7/25/2009 @ 12:38 am
Something I’ve wondered about…the neighbor who called 911 after seeing two black guys (who were her unrecognized neighbor Gates and his Taxi driver) breaking into the house. Did she not see the Taxi sitting in front of the house? And, after, they got the door open, did she not see the Taxi driver bringing Gates’ luggage up and into the house? Seems like the crime-watchers in the neighborhood tend to jump the gun.
In some ways, I sympathize with Gates’ behaviour. He was not worried about any criminals being in his house. He could have chosen to cooperate and play the police officer’s procedural game, but he was tired and annoyed and felt unreasonable: “Mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore”…Mom (581fc6) — 7/25/2009 @ 1:12 am
As I see it, Gates most likely didn’t stereotype Sgt Crowley. I think that his actions were a deliberate effort to manufacture a “racial incident.” Grievances are his profession after all. I believe that this is a man who sees every interaction with law enforcement as an opportunity to demonstrate “how the man” is keeping him down.
Gates is a character straight out of Monty Python:
Help I’m Being RepressedMJBrutus (e8889a) — 7/25/2009 @ 3:08 am
He should simply walked away on confirming that Gates was really the owner of the house. Now he is going to have to prove to everyone that he is not a racist. Even when he knows he is not. Arresting the man was totally unnecessary
Have to disagree with you there. The sad truth of the matter is that making the arrest was the smartest thing Crowley could do by way of pushback.
Think about it: if he had been “the bigger man” by just leaving and ignoring Gates’ ranting, there would have been no report. No backup officers. No crowd.
And when Gates called up his buddies in the media and the academic establishment and the FRICKING WHITE HOUSE and made allegations about Crowley, what would Crowley be able to say in response? That it wasn’t true? That Gates had been belligerent? Who would have believed him over the word of “internationally renowned and respected African-American professor Henry Louis Gates”?
Does anyone really think that, absent Crowley’s documentation of the incident, that President Obama now would be hastily trying to convince everyone that he really thought Crowley was a “outstanding police officer” and a swell guy all along, for reals?Mars vs Hollywood (f062b9) — 7/25/2009 @ 3:37 am
Sorry this is not 100% on-topic. Please note that in most cases when you encounter any police officer in a tense situation, their training is to control the situation. They want to see submission, not courtesy. If you are a large male who has served honorably and risen to a leadership position in the Airborne and you are the person being arrested, submission is not a comfortable role to play.Porkov (339916) — 7/25/2009 @ 3:43 am
This guy Gates is rich. He’s sitting on Martha Vineyard in a million dollar home laughing. He’s nothing but a smugg snob who wants special treatment. This has nothing to do with color, he just wants it do be. He is a piece of crap and whoever pays this guy should fire him for being a racist. He is racist against white cops.He has no clue what happens to real people. I know of 2 people killed by cops in MA. They where both white. One was a friends son who broke into a store in the middle of the night and one was in Yarmouth. Both running from the police and had no guns. This guy should shut the F up and get real.Boston Bob (e3fc6b) — 7/25/2009 @ 3:50 am
[…] leave a comment » Patterico’s Pontifications » The Officer Didn’t Stereotype Henry Louis Gates — Henry Louis Ga…. […]The Officer Didn’t Stereotype Henry Louis Gates — Henry Louis Gates Stereotyped the Officer « Inzax (f313e8) — 7/25/2009 @ 4:28 am
Implicit In The Words – Gates, Crowley, and Obama…
By now everyone is aware that President Obama stuck his foot in it the other night. He was asked a question about the arrest of a friend, Henry Louis (Skip) Gates of Harvard, for disorderly conduct after policemen were called……Joust The Facts (0436bf) — 7/25/2009 @ 5:18 am
Steroptyping SAVED MY LIFE. I had a strange feeling about an individual on a train, and left that car. Another female was on the train and didn’t leave it. She was RAPED and stabbed IN THE TRAIN/CAR. I feel incredible guilt for not asking her to come with me. I left her there alone. She lived, but is dealing with incredible medical trauma.
And yes….the man was BLACK, but that’s not what I was going by – he was acting shifty like he was sizing us up.ellen (af3e6a) — 7/25/2009 @ 5:40 am
“And yes….the man was BLACK, but that’s not what I was going by – he was acting shifty like he was sizing us up.”
Um, that’s not stereotyping.imdw (5f60be) — 7/25/2009 @ 5:46 am
Was that “Big Boy” comment for real?JD (92df48) — 7/25/2009 @ 6:14 am
[…] sums up the racism from the right: Racism is simply a form of […]Belly Up to the Presidential Bar | TaylorMarsh.com (29abd1) — 7/25/2009 @ 7:58 am
“Did she not see the Taxi sitting in front of the house?”
First, people trying to force their way into a house is suspicious behavior, regardless of who’s parked out front. Second, who’s to say the car out front was identifiable as a taxi? If Gates used a livery service (likely, given his income and social stratum), it probably wasn’t.
“black firebrands and white liberals patronizingly excuse techniques of stereotyping that they would condemn in a racist”
Gates IS a racist. Why are you so reluctant to say so?J (458ee2) — 7/25/2009 @ 8:05 am
[…] Patterico’s Pontifications » The Officer Didn’t Stereotype Henry Louis Gates — Henry Louis Ga…. Easy AdSenser by […]Patterico’s Pontifications » The Officer Didn’t Stereotype Henry Louis Gates — Henry Louis Gates Stereotyped the Officer | WWW.OBAMAKOOLAIDE.COM (e1c1c0) — 7/25/2009 @ 8:07 am
The latest on the Gates/Crowley drama…
It’s the issue that just won’t die:Sister Toldjah (c83140) — 7/25/2009 @ 8:14 am
— President Obama expressed “regret” yesterday – but did not apologize – for the choice of words he initially used to describe the arrest of Harvard Professor Henry Louis Gat…
— President Obama expressed “regret” yesterday – but did not apologize –
It’s merely a variation of the way he handled the controversy last year over his close relationship with Jeremiah Wright. When Obama, as part of his rationalizations and excuse-making, pretty much threw his grandmother under the bus.
Admit it, America. You (we) have an ultra-“lefty” dunderhead occupying the White House.Mark (411533) — 7/25/2009 @ 8:53 am
Here’s some advice for Professor “Skip” Gates from Chris Rock:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8patch (823291) — 7/25/2009 @ 9:01 am
[…] Patterico. […]OUTRAGE: President Obama Owes Sgt. James Crowley an Apology: [UPDATED: GRASS ROOTS VICTORY!!!] - Swamp_Yankee’s blog - RedState (796605) — 7/25/2009 @ 9:18 am
16.“Racism is simply a form of stereotyping.”
Uh, no. There’s nothing “simply” about racism. And it’s a power imperative, not a zero sum game of “cards.”
Comment by David Ehrenstein — 7/24/2009 @ 7:46 am
In this instance, it was a respected and powerful Harvard Professor (voted one of the25 most influential people last year,) and the President of the United States ganging up on a white guy. Who had the power imperative here — are you suggesting the cop did? That’s not the case at all.Wise Golden (b37373) — 7/25/2009 @ 9:47 am
Police are racist,it has been that way since day one, period. Obama’s comments are reality and he shouldn’t have to apologize to anyone for stating the truth. Call a spade a spade.ron (21416c) — 7/25/2009 @ 9:59 am
Your attitude is one of the main obstacles to us reaching out to right-wingers.
[note: fished from spam filter]TheDarkness (235983) — 7/25/2009 @ 10:24 am
[…] arresting officer and refusing entry into the house. I doubt it myself….it appears to be as Patterico says in this post. Reverse racism: Racism is simply a form of stereotyping. Stereotyping occurs when […]Flopping Aces » Blog Archive » The Reverse Racism In The Gates Incident (e7cd22) — 7/25/2009 @ 10:48 am
Then why talk about how this reflects badly on “black people?”Peter K. Boucher (d35b28) — 7/25/2009 @ 10:54 am
I think Gates acted like a jackass, but I don’t draw conclusions about “black people” because of his behavior.
Really? And you want people to not think you are just a troll?Eric Blair (204104) — 7/25/2009 @ 11:15 am
And you’re really interested in reaching out to right-wingers, right? Working in a bipartisan manner to help the country? Holding both sides to the same standard?
Is that accurate?Stashiu3 (ed6467) — 7/25/2009 @ 12:09 pm
Because the topic is stereotyping and how it is used inappropriately. The whole point is how what you’re saying is correct, no matter which side it’s used against. When you turn it around, does it still seem fair? If it’s unfair to stereotype black people based on Gates’ behavior, wasn’t it unfair for Gates to stereotype the police? Gates’ behavior leads to the reasonable conclusion that he stereotyped the officer, not “because of your past experiences with black people, as well as things you have heard about black people?” as your first comment said, which implied Patterico was racist. If he had phrased it as you originally suggested, the point of how turning it around demonstrates the unfairness would have been lost.
Why put scare quotes around “black people” (twice, in fact) in your second comment when you didn’t in the first one? Just wondering.Stashiu3 (ed6467) — 7/25/2009 @ 12:34 pm
Harvard should hire Ward Curchhill. He would be a perfect match for Gotes, then they would have two idiots for full professors. It would improve Harvards reputation.Harold Cutler (e9ea36) — 7/25/2009 @ 12:36 pm
I can’t imagine why Obama would know this racist professor;
Barack Obama’s Connections to Socialism, Communism and Racial Divisiveness
[note: fished from spam filter]Winghunter (9982f3) — 7/25/2009 @ 12:41 pm
There’s a huge difference about a stereotype of police vs one of black people. One is a group that you’re born into. The other is a group that you join, presumably because you agree with some aspect of their charter, culture, etc…
For example, I have a stereotype of Republicans being conservative on issues of homosexuality. While it is a stereotype it is based on the actions of a group for which you typically join if you agree with their actions.
Likewise, my experience with police is that the people that want to join the police are often of two very distant ideologies — those that want to help peopple in need and those that want to exploit those in need.
Officer seems like a reasonable officer, but stereotypes about officers as a group are reasonable and certainly not a morally questionable activity.Ken Jackson (d9f79f) — 7/25/2009 @ 12:48 pm
So Gates’ behavior was moral? Taking a stereotype into consideration is one thing, basing your actions on it without evidence is another.Stashiu3 (ed6467) — 7/25/2009 @ 12:55 pm
Call a spade a spade.
Ok, then – you’re a wanton douchebag.Dmac (e6d1c2) — 7/25/2009 @ 1:23 pm
Thomas Jackson says that Obama is promoting racism? That makes about as much sense as someone claiming that Einstein promoted National Socialism and/or the Nazi party during the 40s. Somehow this gets through without anybody calling out on it.Seattle Slew (4dff28) — 7/25/2009 @ 2:16 pm
Most of us largely ignore Jackson, just like after this, I’ll be ignoring you. Birds of a feather, just different ideologies.Stashiu3 (ed6467) — 7/25/2009 @ 2:18 pm
This thread sure brought out a collection of drive-by whack jobs.JD (55b145) — 7/25/2009 @ 2:27 pm
But what I said was just true enough not to ignore it, right Stash?Seattle Slew (4dff28) — 7/25/2009 @ 2:27 pm
Seattle Slew just Godwined Stasiu over someone else’s comment. Priceless.JD (55b145) — 7/25/2009 @ 2:31 pm
Yep. Because National Socialism is funny, JDSeattle Slew (4dff28) — 7/25/2009 @ 2:33 pm
Ignore him JD, I’m going to.Stashiu3 (ed6467) — 7/25/2009 @ 2:34 pm
Starting… now! Stash… hilariously not hilarious.Seattle Slew (4dff28) — 7/25/2009 @ 2:37 pm
The incoherence of the trolls is getting worse.SPQR (26be8b) — 7/25/2009 @ 2:38 pm
Patterico, you made an error. In your opening, you imply that racism is only racism if its against blacks. In point of fact, Prof. Gates is guilty of racism too. But then, he’s a professor of a made up non-discipline that virtually enshrines racism against whites.Eric (95bcf4) — 7/25/2009 @ 2:46 pm
SpQR – They are following JD’s First Rule of Trolls, faithfully.JD (55b145) — 7/25/2009 @ 2:59 pm
[…] Right, except that arguably Gates’s problem with Crowley is that he did distribute equal justice. He saw a guy attempting to break into a house, confronted him about it, and when the guy popped off, he hauled him in for disorderly conduct — even though he’s a public intellectual, Harvard eminence, and official Friend of Barack. To put it another way, Crowley stands accused of two distinct abuses of power: Wrongly arresting a suspect because he’s black and wrongly arresting a suspect because he was rude. One is racist, the other isn’t. Ashley Herzog’s point that insolence towards police does not a criminal make is well taken, but of course that wasn’t the type of abuse Gates and Obama hinted at; they opted for theory number one, not number two. The question is why. Take it away, Patterico. […]Hot Air » Blog Archive » Gates: Sure, I’ll have a beer with Crowley and Obama (e2f069) — 7/25/2009 @ 4:00 pm
I see Slew’s Godwin and raise him one: he is trivializing the Holocaust.Gary Rosen (b41469) — 7/25/2009 @ 5:28 pm
just what i say now because a black is in office and officer cant say diddly to a black man without fear of being called a racest, just goes to show give an inch they take a mile this dude had it in his mind a white officer was out to get him regardless, now a poor black dude would of complied and did what was ask this over the top MF thought he was above the law and thinks he is better than any cop white or back , and obama his true colors are starting to show through only a matter of time and the true blue will wash off and America will really see who this man is the words of a great man surprise surprise , gomer pile , yeah America wake the hell up its people that think this way and use color to gain or get out of something that keeps racesim alive todayscrap (983a2c) — 7/25/2009 @ 6:03 pm
I didn’t. Don’t imply I did.
I didn’t. Don’t imply I did.Patterico (cc3b34) — 7/25/2009 @ 7:49 pm
Patterico – If they cannot distort your position, they have no argument.JD (bc26c4) — 7/25/2009 @ 8:01 pm
Those were’nt square quotes. I was quoting his use of the phrase “black people.”Peter K. Boucher (d35b28) — 7/25/2009 @ 8:06 pm
I agree with Patterico’s points, for the most part. I just think it’s ironic that he used Gates’ behavior to make a comment ablout black people in an article that condemn that very behavior.
I’m not implying you did. I’m saying you did.Peter K. Boucher (d35b28) — 7/25/2009 @ 8:09 pm
You didn’t draw conclusions about all black people, but you definitely used Gates’ behavior to draw conclusions about “some black people.”
If you wrote poorly, clarify, don’t just deny what’s plain to see.
BS. Period. There were no assumptions made about black people, except by those that wish to impart meaning and motive that is not there. He is very clear who he is talking about, firebrands and those that use this to score political points. Your assertions are overly-broad, and ignore the parts of the post where he more clearly defines those in question.JD (bc26c4) — 7/25/2009 @ 8:16 pm
Peter, surely you can see there’s a difference between “some black people” and “black people”, right? Your omission of “some” in your criticism is unfair.Steverino (1b3695) — 7/25/2009 @ 8:21 pm
Racism seems to be explainined away in so many other words around here, Peter. I wouldn’t even bother.Seattle Slew (4dff28) — 7/25/2009 @ 8:37 pm
Good point. I think you’re far too generous to Gates using his description of what happened over officer Crowley’s. The two are very different. Officer Crowley reports that upon asking Gates to speak to him, Gates replied “Why, because I’m a black man in America?” In other words, the door hadn’t even opened and Gates was introducing the specter of racist police into the situation.John (3e13e7) — 7/25/2009 @ 8:39 pm
That’s it. Disagree with Obama? RACIST!!!!!nk (a0200f) — 7/25/2009 @ 8:41 pm
I’ve always appreciated this one:
African-American: “When you look at me, you see a ‘black man’, but you see when I see you I don’t see a white man, I see a man.”
White guy: “Ummm…then why did you mentioned that I was white if you don’t see me as a white man?”dpt (8a67dc) — 7/25/2009 @ 8:42 pm
Seattle Slew is a racist. The codeword racism it uses is a subtle and insidious disguise for its repulsive message.JD (1f5216) — 7/25/2009 @ 8:44 pm
If by racist you mean I do not use color to judge people, nor do I believe that others should do the same, then I guess I am. If you use the actual definition as identified by Webster then you are mistaken. Wouldn’t be the first time. I will just chalk it up to ineptitude.Seattle Slew (4dff28) — 7/25/2009 @ 8:52 pm
I made this point the other day at Ace’s site (pardon me if the link doesn’t appear correctly.).
It was the first thing that popped into my mind. Pardon me if I seem old-fashioned…I am for a 34-year old man…but I respect the cops. I don’t come into a meeting with law enforcement assuming they’ve got me wrong. I assume they’ve seen me do something that in their view violated a statue of some kind. That’s all well and good. I can then use the legal system to defend myself. The cop is just the code enforcement arm of the Justice System; I do not place upon the officer the weight of judge. We elect judges for that – and that’s precisely why we do.
This ‘scholar’ should apply a little of the common sense I just demonstrated that I learned through study and life experience; but mostly life experience (who here has gotten beaten up by several officers for defying orders of compliance and not pressed charges? I think my hand is the only one up. I got whacked several times by batons and boots; shoulders, elbows, and knees. I deserved every shot I took and I’ll never go back on that opinion).
I’m surprised this ‘scholar’ isn’t dead of hypertension: walking around with a racist chip on your shoulder for your whole life (what else would make a man take up scholarly work in racist studies but the fact that he suspects each and every white man on this earth?) will certainly beg for an early demise by stroke, myocardial infarction, or general cardiac death.
I pity this Mr. Gates. Not empathy; pity.AJS (27ef39) — 7/25/2009 @ 9:03 pm
Well, if it isn’t Mr. Ed, returning to the scene and calling everyone racist without actually offering evidence.
Want a sugar cube, Mr. Ed?Steverino (1b3695) — 7/25/2009 @ 9:04 pm
I agree with everything Patterico said about Gates. Cops came to my work when I was there working late and set off the motion-detector. They wanted proof I wasn’t a burglar. I gave it to them. They left. I would have been a Jackass to be angry that they had dared to come and ask me for proof. Gates was a jackass.Peter K. Boucher (d35b28) — 7/25/2009 @ 9:11 pm
What I see as ironic here is using Gates’ behavior to make a generalization about “how quick some black people are to leap to unflattering conclusions about others based on scant evidence.”
Some people who make their living off of inflaming racial tensions are quick to leap to unflattering conclusions about others based on scant evidence. Ward churchill, for example. I just think it was ironic to write an article to condemn racial stereotyping committed by Gates, and include in the article an unflattering generalization aimed at “some black people.”
Umm…Are you calling me Mr. Ed, and are you calling me a racist, Steverino?
I’m going under the assumption you’re calling someone else out. However I looked several comments backward and I see no Mr. Ed. So to steal a line from Taxi Driver, ‘You talkin’ to me?’
If you’re talking to someone else, I’ll move on. If not, I’ll point out why your mistakes.AJS (27ef39) — 7/25/2009 @ 9:19 pm
Heh…s/why your mistakes.why you’re mistakenAJS (27ef39) — 7/25/2009 @ 9:23 pm
AJS, more likely that the comment was intended for “Seattle Slew”.SPQR (26be8b) — 7/25/2009 @ 9:24 pm
Heh…s/why your mistakes/why you’re mistakenAJS (27ef39) — 7/25/2009 @ 9:24 pm
“Some white people” are racists. Saying that does not mean that I think all (or even most) white people are racists. Failing to understand that difference is the ironic aspect… on your part. Read what’s written instead of what you imagine is written.Stashiu3 (ed6467) — 7/25/2009 @ 9:25 pm
No, AJS, I was calling Seattle Slew “Mr. Ed”. I had hoped everyone would get the connection.
And I didn’t call anyone a racist. Go back and read my post, I said that Mr. Ed was calling everyone racist.Steverino (1b3695) — 7/25/2009 @ 9:55 pm
Steverino – Other than to mock or scorn, Mr. Ed is not worth speaking to. Talk about it. Talk at it, just not to it.
I know, I am more guilty of that than anyone else 😉JD (783baa) — 7/25/2009 @ 10:30 pm
Gates documentary series receives $12M in fundingBill (fc24e3) — 7/26/2009 @ 5:59 am
Harvard Edu Gazette 8-21-08
The Corporation for Public Broadcasting (CPB) and the Public Broadcasting Service (PBS) recently announced funding in the amount of $12 million for three, new public television documentary series in which Henry Louis “Skip” Gates Jr. will explore the meaning of race, culture, and identity in America. Gates is the Alphonse Fletcher University Professor at Harvard University, as well as director of the W.E.B. Du Bois Institute for African and African American Research. His recent PBS series include “African American Lives” and “African American Lives 2,” “Oprah’s Roots: An African American Lives Special,” “America Beyond the Color Line,” and “Wonders of the African World.”
@Stashiu3 (#246): I don’t know what Gates did. The accounts seem very different. But my point was that if Gates had some impression of the police based on past interactions and knowledge of the group that this is fundamentally different than bias of a group where users don’t “choose” to be members of this group.
Disliking blacks, whites, asians, homosexuals, blondes, short people, etc… is fundamentally different than disliking Republicans, Democrats, police, lawyers, politicians, basketball players, etc…Ken Jackson (d9f79f) — 7/26/2009 @ 8:06 am
[…] officers sometimes falsely are accused of racial profiling, either because they have been falsely profiled as inherently racist, or because accusations of racism are an effective defense tool. If we are to […]The Greenroom » Forum Archive » We Need The Truth, Not Beer and Apologies (e2f069) — 7/26/2009 @ 9:06 am
[…] for a far more balanced view than what is being presented in the media, I recommend you read both Patterico’s post on this, as well as Larry Elder’s article HWB – Home While Black. I agree more with […]Grandma Tasered; Police procedure versus abuse of power allegations « Northern Thoughts And Reflections (2b7e85) — 7/26/2009 @ 4:16 pm
I see you still demonstrate the critical thinking attributes that pair you with Seattle. Course this insults Seattle’s IQ.
Do us all a favor and demonstrate your critical thinking abilities in such a manner not to leave us all laughing for hours.
Its always a pleasure to see you and the other usual suspects demonstrate why they are telemarketers.Thomas Jackson (8ffd46) — 7/26/2009 @ 4:48 pm
Thomas Jackson is drunk again.
Stashiu, I wish things were better again between us. I think soldiers are mean bastards. Can you still like me despite of that?nk (a0200f) — 7/26/2009 @ 5:16 pm
Ignore TJ, he’s an idiot. Things are fine between us. I know where I stand with you now. The last time the Guantanamo thing came up you asked not to discuss it and I dropped it. Since the captured soldier thread, I haven’t said anything harsh to you or about you, and don’t intend to. I believe you’re wrong and that what you’re saying is no different than people who generalize the police as fascist, politicians as corrupt (largely guilty myself there), or lawyers as unethical.
It’s an ignorant position and was surprising to hear from you. I thought better of you. I will just stay away from the topic with you in the future. You don’t understand soldiers, what they do, or how they think. I don’t like that about you… it doesn’t mean I don’t like you.Stashiu3 (ed6467) — 7/26/2009 @ 5:45 pm
[…] Harvard professors, on the other hand, are quick to demand apologies, even after stereotyping a police officer doing his job. […]Netsol Blogs » Blog Archive » Reinforcing Stereotypes … about Harvard Professors! (e174ed) — 7/27/2009 @ 7:19 am
[…] Just One Minute: Patterico is excellent with “The Officer Didn’t Stereotype Henry Louis Gates — Henry Louis Gates […]not everything is black and white : NO QUARTER (c8d490) — 7/27/2009 @ 5:00 pm
[…] But, the way the President–and many of his allies–have handled the Gates issue makes it clear that this Administration will not serve to help us transcend race, that is, unless his defenders dare to fault the professor’s boorish behavior and address his own anti-police prejudices. […]GayPatriot » Making Gates’ issue a racial one prevents us from moving beyond race (f3181e) — 7/28/2009 @ 1:27 pm
Gates stereotyped the white police officer and did not treat him with any respect. How did he treat the other two policemen there? The hispanic and the black police officers. Were they verbally abused too?Barb (6242d3) — 7/28/2009 @ 4:00 pm
Obama steretyped all white people when he remarked that his grandmother was a ‘typical white person’. What a broad generalization.
It appears that people are not being treated equal and that is a problem for this President, who sees color and not human beings. It is sad.
[…] e-mail. What lesson I’m supposed to glean from that fact is unclear, but I have a hunch this Patterico post on stereotyping might be worth re-reading. Exit question: How come Whalen wasn’t invited to be part of […]Hot Air » Blog Archive » Gates 911 caller: Um, why am I a racist for reporting a possible crime in progress? (e2f069) — 7/29/2009 @ 3:37 pm
I think that Professor Gates should be apologizing for his reverse discrimination behavior. Behavior not befitting a supposed scholar. Whites get labeled as racisits, crackers, honkeys etc. This behavior is constantly ingnored. Maybe this should change and whites should turn the tables a bit an start crying reverse racisim. It’s a little one-sided if you ask me.Daniel (305321) — 7/30/2009 @ 7:00 am
Best piece I’ve read on the topic. Thanks.Joe Louderback (608dc6) — 7/30/2009 @ 9:09 am
[…] he understands little about economics and even less about economic growth or job creation. The Officer Didn’t Stereotype Henry Louis Gates — Henry Louis Gates Stereotyped the Officer Even AP having trouble believing Obama on health care anymore – FACT CHECK: Obama’s […]Swamp Hermit’s *QUICK* Bits « The Swamp Hermit's Report (962ecf) — 8/2/2009 @ 8:24 am
Info for a criminal lawyer in Boston…
Interesting….Info for a criminal lawyer in Boston (56cd9d) — 8/13/2009 @ 9:04 am
[…] 49. July 24, 2009. The Officer Didn’t Stereotype Henry Louis Gates — Henry Louis Gates Stereotyped the Officer. […]Massive Catch-Up Post – The Top 80 Stories We Didn’t Blog This Summer :: all-encompassingly :: blog (e6b444) — 9/3/2009 @ 10:51 pm