Unapologetic 100-0 Coach Fired
The coach of a Texas high school basketball team that beat another team 100-0 was fired Sunday, the same day he sent an e-mail to a newspaper saying he will not apologize “for a wide-margin victory when my girls played with honor and integrity.”
Kyle Queal, the headmaster for Covenant School, said in The Dallas Morning News online edition that he could not answer if the firing was a direct result of coach Micah Grimes’ e-mail disagreeing with administrators who called the blowout “shameful.”
It’s a mystery.
Grimes, who has been criticized for letting the game get so far out of hand, made it clear in the e-mail Sunday to the newspaper that he does not agree with his school’s assessment.
“In response to the statement posted on The Covenant School Web site, I do not agree with the apology or the notion that the Covenant School girls basketball team should feel embarrassed or ashamed,” Grimes wrote in the e-mail, according to the newspaper. “We played the game as it was meant to be played. My values and my beliefs would not allow me to run up the score on any opponent, and it will not allow me to apologize for a wide-margin victory when my girls played with honor and integrity.”
So he didn’t run up the score, and they can’t say if they fired him for the criticism.
The biggest loser of all: straight talk.
Via Hot Air.
Once, when a school accused Bill Snyder of running up the score (ironically it was a school that had done the same to KSU on a regular basis), and how Coach Snyder should have sent out 2nd or 3rd stringers, Coach Snyder responded with “It isn’t my job to keep the score down.” or words to that effect.
I wonder what this coach’s union has to say about his firing…
Scott Jacobs (a1c284) — 1/27/2009 @ 7:30 amFlorida State’s Bobby Bowden (back when he was winning) said much the same thing. “Shucks. I thought it was the job of the other team to keep us from scoring.”
KB (5a6552) — 1/27/2009 @ 7:37 amI have a problem with a 100-0 score. With the coach and the administration. Of the loosing team. They should be the ones fired.
Gajim (e39b35) — 1/27/2009 @ 7:46 amThis has gotten out of hand. Embarassing the losing team was not necessarily a good thing, but it is not wrong to score points. The school should have issued its apology and moved on. The coach, who was a bit of a jerk, should have kept his mouth shut.
Let’s talk about idiots who make Drunken Negro Cookies instead.
Joe (17aeff) — 1/27/2009 @ 7:48 amThere’s no way of avoiding hurt feelings when one team is so much better than the other, and even more so when there’s no mercy rule. Either the better team continues to ‘play’, which results in very lopsided scores (such as 100-0), or they go easy on the less-talented team (for example, some combination of running down the shot clock before shooting, not shooting before everybody on the team has touched the ball three times a possession, pulling players from the court, not taking 3 pointers or only taking 3 pointers, having players only shoot with their ‘off’ hand, and so on) which does keep the score down but still results in the lesser-talented team having its nose rubbed in the dirt.
steve sturm (369bc6) — 1/27/2009 @ 7:48 amI was listening to this controversy on my local sports radio program. The announcer kept calling this coach an ‘idiot’ who he would have fired on the spot unless he had taken ‘every available measure’ to not humiliate the other school’s team. Such as ending the game early or asking the refs to make fake calls to even the odds.
It’s just is a foreign concept to me that there is something immoral about humiliating an opponent via sport. If you’re going to prove you are absolutely dominant, this is the most honorable way to do so imaginable.
But let’s just assume it is immoral to keep fighting hard after it’s obvious you are the victor. Many say a Christian school should never ‘rub it in’ like this team may have. That it’s ruthless and stupid. Isn’t it even more ruthless and stupid to fire someone the first time he does something you don’t like (that left no actual damage?). If you don’t like his *style* of coaching, but it’s obvious he’s giving you a 100% effort, shouldn’t you at least tell him to stop, and then fire him if he keeps breaking your rules?
Seems to me that the people who wanted this guy fired are far harsher than the coach was for letting a game play out without interfering. The weak team (I understand they only got 7 shot attempts in the entire game!) needed to learn a lesson about hard work and perseverance.
Joco (4cdfb7) — 1/27/2009 @ 7:52 amHere’s a note from the article on the losing team.
Dallas Academy has eight girls on its varsity team and about 20 girls in its high school. It is winless over the last four seasons. The academy boasts of its small class sizes and specializes in teaching students struggling with “learning differences,” such as short attention spans or dyslexia
Here’s a note from a parent that saw the game
A parent who attended the game said Covenant continued to make 3-pointers — even in the fourth quarter. She praised the Covenant players but said spectators and an assistant coach were cheering wildly as their team edged closer to 100 points.
So what we have here is a large private high school, against a much much smaller private school that specializes in kids with issues. The coaching staff encouraged the girls to run up the score, and totally humiliate the other children. Other options would have been to put in 2nd or 3rd string. Allow the girls to try different positions, and try plays that are more challenging to execute. All of which have value to players on the winning team.
To be clear. I’m not saying they should have thrown the game or played badly on an individual level. But what possible reason is there to keep shooting three point shots after you have a 60 point lead in a high school game? Were the afraid the 8 players on the other team would get a 2nd wind a come back in the end? No, they wanted to win by as much as possible.
This was a game played by kids for purposes other than just winning the game. But the coach’s letter makes it clear that he doesn’t see it that way. So they fired him. I’m fine with that.
Joe (066362) — 1/27/2009 @ 7:59 amI too have a problem with the 100-0 score. I dont think that the coach of the winning team should have been fired over this.
An official should have called the game at some point when it started to look like a blowout. Even adult softball teams have rules that cover scoring disparities.
Dan F (a67de7) — 1/27/2009 @ 8:05 amActually, as with my earlier post on this, the hat tip should once again go to DRJ, who left a comment about the firing. I barely have time to read anything nowadays as I am in trial; I hurriedly slap something together and have only skimmed the comments here.
Patterico (78b24d) — 1/27/2009 @ 8:05 amYou do not want to pity the weaker team, nor do you want to punish success, but most good coaches use a high score to allow players who do not get a lot of time a chance to play. It is the wild cheering, keeping his starting line up in, and trying to hit 100 that made things a bit much.
And then he opened his big mouth.
Joe (17aeff) — 1/27/2009 @ 8:07 amJoe: it’s possible that taking 3 pointers was an attempt to keep the score down… after all, most teams shoot worse from outside the arc than they do from inside.
steve sturm (369bc6) — 1/27/2009 @ 8:13 amI know I am going to get grief for this, but let’s face it, the teachers and administrators are third-tier in the scheme of things as well. Basically, losers who cannot get better jobs because they lack the talent, drive, education.
We’ll leave aside why they’re not rocket scientists or brain surgeons and just focus why they’re teaching in Christian schools. If they were top-notch, they’d be in select public schools — in rich suburbs, with tons of resources, 20 kids per classroom, good salaries and great benefits. A little below that, in the magnet schools. A little below that, in the “regular” public schools. A little below that, in secular private schools. Christian schools, on a shoestring, are the bottom of the barrel.
So it’s little wonder that they consider talent, hard work, drive and competitiveness to be sins.
nk (bf9c84) — 1/27/2009 @ 8:16 amHad I been the coach, I might have been snarky enough to have said “We should have kept the score down? I don’t think so… God helps those who help themselves…”
Scott Jacobs (a1c284) — 1/27/2009 @ 8:19 amThis coach was a jerk. An asshat, if you will.
JD (a1ce2d) — 1/27/2009 @ 8:30 amBut the idea that a coach should be fired for running up the score is laughable. Coaches routinely are fired for losing, but for winning?!
JD (a1ce2d) — 1/27/2009 @ 8:32 amIf the Christian school principal thinks that running the score up was a bad thing, s/he should go re-read Matthew 25:14-30, The Parable of the Talents.
In it, the master gets angry at the servant who buried his talents, never trying to make himself better.
From that we can conclude that to do anything other than your best is considered sloth and sinful.
Steverino (69d941) — 1/27/2009 @ 8:32 amBilly Tubbs, the former University of Oklahoma basketball coach, was famous for running up the score and continuing to full-court press long after the lead was secure. When challenged why he didn’t back off a little, Tubbs reportedly replied, “Because that is called shaving points, and it’s against the law.” It was lots of fun watching the University of Kansas upset OU in the 1988 NCAA Championship game.
JVW (bff0a4) — 1/27/2009 @ 8:33 am100-0? ROTFLMHO!
Emperor7 (0c8c2c) — 1/27/2009 @ 8:34 amOur basketball program was slightly better than the losers here.
But only slightly. I was the “Power Center” for our team my Junior and Senior years in HS. I’m 6’2 and was 180 lbs.
We lost to a rival school 94-15 once. All 5 of their starters made it to the NBA at some point (none made it big, or more than a year or two, they didn’t have the discipline. A few weeks later, we were in a tournament where a small private school took the big team apart playing coherent team basketball… We lost to the small school in the next bracket by only 8 points.)
The opposing coach did bench his starters – when they started dunking on us on breakaways. I appreciated that, but it didn’t bother me – it was our job to stop them from scoring. I played the whole game, and I still remember it with some pride – we were fighting to keep them from getting to 100, and to at least break 30 ourselves.
I’ve got to give this coach kudos for failing to mealy-mouth “apologize” because the game got national attention and people who have never heard of either school are now irritated. I don’t approve of running the score up, but I really disapprove of retroactive false “apologies”. From the reports I’ve read, the opposing team took the loss with far greater grace than the general public.
Which I would have thought would have been the correct lesson to learn. Instead of being victims and becoming “offended”. I’m sure they’ve learned a lot from this.
Unix-Jedi (651a1b) — 1/27/2009 @ 8:52 amCollege football requires big blowouts due to the BCS, it is not a fair comparison. The coaches intention was to run the score up. Why did he stop scoring when the team reached 100 when there was still 4 minutes left in the game?
He blindly only had one goal. To run the score up to see triple digits. He is obviously not mature enough to handle a coach situation if he is going to treat it like Madden 09.
Romulus (16b457) — 1/27/2009 @ 9:02 amWhile it makes the school look bad by caving in and firing the coach, he’s still an ass – just like Switzer was with OK, and Hayden Fry at Iowa. Both were notorious for scheduling ridiculously weak teams and running up scores like 88 – 3. What happened to a simple concept like sportmanship?
Dmac (eb0dd0) — 1/27/2009 @ 9:19 am“sportsmanship.”
Dmac (eb0dd0) — 1/27/2009 @ 9:20 amOrdinarily I look forward to almost nk’s post. All of his brains must have run out his ear last night – or a sixth grade boy is using his computer. You can find people without talent drive and education in any field. And you can find excellent people in teaching. To make a blanket statement like the quote above is ignorance par excellence.
I am not a teacher nor do I play one on the internet.
Tangentially related to the subject at hand – once our high school basketball team was working hard at scoring 100 points – with second stringers playing. The other team started stalling with about 5 minutes left in the game. Our kids sat down on the floor and refused to defend. The refs called a technical foul on our players. I can’t remember if we got to 100 points or not.
quasimodo (edc74e) — 1/27/2009 @ 9:25 amstrike the word almost in the above post … makes no sense
quasimodo (edc74e) — 1/27/2009 @ 9:26 amStrength of Schedule was removed from the actual BCS score calculation a few years back, Romulus.
As for the coach in question, I just read (and can’t find where I read it, I’ll keep looking) he was pressing in the fourth quarter. That’s stupid. It may also be stupid that this game was ever scheduled, and that may have nothing to do with the coach in question, but I don’t have enough information to judge that.
Grandy Peace (e24a95) — 1/27/2009 @ 9:32 am“I know I am going to get grief for this, but let’s face it, the teachers and administrators are third-tier in the scheme of things as well. Basically, losers who cannot get better jobs because they lack the talent, drive, education.
We’ll leave aside why they’re not rocket scientists or brain surgeons and just focus why they’re teaching in Christian schools. If they were top-notch, they’d be in select public schools — in rich suburbs, with tons of resources, 20 kids per classroom, good salaries and great benefits. A little below that, in the magnet schools. A little below that, in the “regular” public schools. A little below that, in secular private schools. Christian schools, on a shoestring, are the bottom of the barrel.”
– nk
Such amazing deductive logic! I’m sold…
Let’s face it, you have no idea the quality of the teachers and administrators at that school.
Leviticus (b987b0) — 1/27/2009 @ 9:34 amquasimodo, I am a college professor myself, and nk has never been disrespectful to me. I think that he was expressing his irritation with the college in question and its officers.
As you say, there are good and bad people in any profession. Hyperbole remains the real enemy of discussion and debate, I think.
Eric Blair (e92b94) — 1/27/2009 @ 9:34 amYup, you’re going to get grief on this. Christian schools are “bottom of the barrel” as far as quality teachers are concerned? Then why is it Christian schools have a bit of a better educational record than public schools? Why is it secular private schools have a bit of a better educational record than public schools?
And money per student makes for top-flight educators? Last I knew, DC spent more per student than anywhere else in the country and the feds had basically “taken over” due to the outright failure of the DC schools to provide an acceptable education.
I am not a teacher, nor do I play one on the net, as another said. I did go to college in the 80s, Malone College, in an effort to become a high school math teacher but my money ran out. I also did home-school my daughter a few years. I can say with certainty that I would prefer teaching in a Christian school than in any public school.
I’m sure if you google Freshwater, you will find all sorts of information regarding a particular Chrristian who was a public school science teacher. Lots of dissembling, misinformation, scathing attacks on a good man that would never have happened had he been teaching at a Christian school.
I have spoken at length with a woman who became a Christian grade-school teacher a couple years ago. She has absolutely zero interest in teaching outside Christian schools.
In short, I am deeply offended that any conservative would declare Christian school educators “bottom of the barrel.”
John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 1/27/2009 @ 9:49 amEB, it is not a college in question, but a Christian high school.
John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 1/27/2009 @ 9:50 amJohn, while I doubt that a kid in a Christian school is worse off than one in a typical public school, I can confirm from dozens of examples in my family and friend circle that teachers at Christian schools are indeed generally inferior.
And this is from teachers at Christian schools, public schools, and Principals at public schools who have to sort resumes. It may be unfair for all I know, but it is the universal consensus in countless examples I’ve come across.
Since I assume private schools are a choice to get better than public, I’ve always been surprised that Christian private teachers aren’t considered better.
You’re obviously right that money spent has little to do with quality of education. Then again, my unfortunate niece can say the Lord’s prayer in 5 languages and has no idea what most of the individual words mean, thinks water pressure (from Noah’s flood) is why carbon 14 half-life tests make Dinosaurs seem older than Babylon, and they didn’t even understand what the word evolution even meant until I explained the banal concept. I’m sure you know what kind of teachers they had.
Joco (4cdfb7) — 1/27/2009 @ 9:57 amThen why is it Christian schools have a bit of a better educational record than public schools? Why is it secular private schools have a bit of a better educational record than public schools?
Because the kids are likely smarter than their teachers and learn despite of them, and their parents care enough not only to pay for a private school but also to make sure that their kids do their homework, and have decent nutrition, and get a good night’s sleep, and stay out of trouble? And maybe because the average is not skewed by the trash that public schools have to try and teach when the trash parents only want them to babysit?
nk (bf9c84) — 1/27/2009 @ 10:00 amGrandy, you’re right… it was stupid.
But it’s possibly the case that someone was being a jerk to this coach during the game, since someone went out of their way to be outraged and get this guy fired. He had stopped pressing for most of the game, and resumed playing to win at the end, which was still pretty silly.
Regardless, firing a coach for being stupidly tenacious *once* is absurdly unforgiving. He was hired to fix a losing team, and he did. He should have been told how he is to act in that situation in the future, and the school should have publicized a new policy.
Joco (4cdfb7) — 1/27/2009 @ 10:01 amIf we established standards for admission to public schools like private and parochial schools have, the public schools students would be the cream of the crop and the private and parochial schools would have to take the trash nobody wants if they want to stay in business, and the averages would be reversed.
nk (bf9c84) — 1/27/2009 @ 10:03 amCarbon-14 half-life tests are greatly erronious, due to “Noah’s Flood.” Prior to that flood, there was a more profound “watery shell” surrounding the earth, which caused the earth to be much warmer than it is today and more humid. In addition, it blocked a great deal more harmful insolation than the current “watery shell.”
Prior to the flood, a 100-year-old man was extremely young, after the flood, not so much.
John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 1/27/2009 @ 10:05 amUsually when one team is over powering another, it is less humiliating if the winning team just goes about playing its game as usual and let the score happen as it might. It’s a good time to let your bench play as much as they can.
Any attempt to keep the score down usually turns into an obvious display of “toying” with your opponent. In youth sports, the winning players often develop a mocking attitude as they attempt to hold back.
A mercy rules in youth sports is usually a good thing.
PC14 (82e46c) — 1/27/2009 @ 10:09 amJohn, with all due respect sir, I think your account of how halflife works is incorrect.
You are polite to me, so I won’t be rude to you, but I find it difficult to understand how an intelligent person could believe that. If the church did not tell you that, would you find that account compelling?
The bible has a lot of lies in it. Anyone who can’t admit it is morally mess up or hasn’t read the bible very carefully. The bible talks about the right way to have slaves, as one of many examples. No just God would inspire that. There is no excuse, except that the bible is not inerrant and we don’t have to pretend God really murdered everyone on Earth except for Noah (and if he did, then he’s the bad guy, and Satan is the good guy for refusing to serve such horrors).
Joco (4cdfb7) — 1/27/2009 @ 10:10 amIs this parody?
timb (a83d56) — 1/27/2009 @ 10:26 amParody? If it is, then I have made a fool of myself. I think it’s entirely possible, too. But that is kinda familiar sounding to what my poor niece told me when I was trying to have a fun conversation with her about radiation (I always try to stay away from religious topics with her, but they are always there). Oh well. She still got a sweet microscope for Christmas.
Joco (4cdfb7) — 1/27/2009 @ 10:34 amIt is not parody. I firmly believe the Bible is inerrant and God-breathed. And timb, insolation is an actual term. Incoming Solar Radiation. So you don’t have to “sic” it. 😉
But I also will hold some derisive comments as badges of honor. And no, Joco, your comment was not derisive. You spoke respectfully but mistakenly. 🙂
John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 1/27/2009 @ 10:47 amRunning up the score…Pressing the advantage…
Yes, I really resent that we have in our history examples of leaders (coaches) who did not go easy on their opponent when the outcome was no longer in doubt…
Washington v. Cornwallis (Yorktown – it is widely acknowledged that Washington fought this war not to win, but to not lose; but he definitely kicked ass here);
Grant v. Lee (1865 – like a pit-bull who won’t let go, Grant had Lee by the leg and refused to let him disengage, regardless of the costs);
Patton (famous comment: I don’t like paying for the same territory twice).
If GHWB had been as ruthless as this b-ball coach, perhaps GWB would not have had to engage Hussein in 2003.
You play the game according to the rules agreed to until the game is completed.
AD (db1953) — 1/27/2009 @ 11:02 amIf the outcome is uncomfortable, change the rules before the next game.
And, we have lost sight of the usefulness of the phrase: No Comment!
John, I’m glad you are free to believe whatever you want. It’s probably always going to be that way in the USA, and basically it’s because this country is rooted in Christianity instead of other, lesser (from my POV) views. I have a deep appreciation for Christianity.
but suppose you had 12 kids, and 11 were being too promiscuous and denied you where their parent. Would it be OK for you to kill all of them, except your son Noah? I think that would be indefensible and wrong (and obviously, their behavior is partly your own failure). It’s this simple moral compass of mine that tells me the concept of God of Noah’s ark is the enemy of good people. The idea of millions of children drowning in their mother’s arms is a sick one. And then consider the idea that God put the water sky layer up there with the explicit plan of drowning all those kids! That’s mean! Couldn’t he have found a better solution?
Joco (4cdfb7) — 1/27/2009 @ 11:02 amI’m glad you wear your faith and your belief in magic as a badge of honor, John. Can we now move back to the discussion of how a school representing a man’s whose life on Earth was supposed to be an embodiment of mercy erred when it fired a coach who exhorted his team to humiliate others and show no mercy?
Oh, and John, here’s a link to a recent NOVA story on the Old Testament and what we actually know of it. I suggest a quick viewing will inform your faith more than the obviously incorrect phrase
For instance, here you can find a entirely interesting question of interpreting why the inerrant Bible lists three different versions of Christ’s last words (most likely owing to the fact the earliest of Gospels was written almost 50 years after the events and were hearsay).
Anyway, it’s a good thing that jerk was fired. Maybe he can go over to that school for troubled kids and taunt them in person.
timb (a83d56) — 1/27/2009 @ 12:10 pmComparing war or college sports to high school basketball is ridiculous.
In war you fight for life and death, make all kinds of compromises with just about every type of morality humans have invented. You do things that are horrible –it is not even remotely related to high school basketball.
College sports are conducted by young adults. These contests are fought for victory and glory (and TV revenue, recruitment classes, alumni support). The purpose is to win. So running-up scores is understandable (even thought this sometimes backfires the following season). Even here, teams often show respect for their opponents by not turning a blowout into a slaughter-fest (not always). Again, this is not related to high school basketball.
High school basketball is for older children. It is supposed to be about teaching moments, discipline, integrity, and sportsmanship. The coach denied the children of the “winning” team a real moment of learning about honor and respect (for themselves, the sport, and their fellow athletes).
Running the score up on this level is the result of a flawed understanding of the purpose of high school sports.
The coach was probably trying to make up for his inadequacies as a failed athlete or trying to relive some past glory (my guess, but I would bet on it). Or perhaps, he thought he was general commanding troops, or a big-time college coach who wanted to humiliate his opponents. Well, now he has his chance.
Pons Asinorum (61628f) — 1/27/2009 @ 12:12 pmmy guess, but I would bet on it
Well, at least you seem to realize you are reaching. the coach did ease off for a while and then pressed again at the end. I think he just thought it would be cool to reach 100 – 0. And it is cool.
Who cares about that lesson you think he could have taught? Kids already know about basic fairness like that when they are 8. This game simply wasn’t important, no matter what the score was. The coach probably kept his team in shape and taught them how to play basketball. He shouldn’t have been fired for being silly once.
Joco (4cdfb7) — 1/27/2009 @ 12:27 pmIf Karl Lewis were to run the 100 meter dash in a race against a kid with a bum leg, would we celebrate him? Of course not. Would we consider him to have been acting honorably in gloating about the win and striving to beat the kid by a full 80 meters? Of course not. There is no glory or honor in such an effortless victory, over a truly mis-matched opponent.
The coach is an asshole, and he fully deserved to be fired. My own high school basketball coach was a big ass until he realized that the game was about the kids, not about him winning enough to be recruited to coach college ball. After that, he taught us to play hard, but to also keep the game in its proper perspective. And we became better people as a result of his teachings.
PatHMV (e392fa) — 1/27/2009 @ 12:29 pmComment by Pons Asinorum — 1/27/2009 @ 12:12 pm
I would just remind you that the Duke of Wellington is often quoted as saying that
“The Battle of Waterloo was won on the playing-fields of Eton”.
Valuable lessons that follow us throughout our lives are learned early.
AD (db1953) — 1/27/2009 @ 12:40 pmPATHMV,
You’re judging someone you know basically nothing about. You only know that he won a game very dominantly. You don’t know if he’s a nice guy or not. Firing someone for a single mistake that is of tiny consequence is hideous, and those who think this merited that are far more severe than this coach is (as far as we have learned, anyway).
BOTH TEAMS AGREED TO PLAY THIS GAME. No one forced this game to occur. This isn’t Carl Lewis against a cripple. It’s so insane that people are this angry. Of course, you seem to have some issues with your old coach that you are projecting onto this innocent man who has been greatly harmed for his honesty and talent.
Oh, and there is glory and honor in the way he won his game. His team was special, and not everyone gets to be special.
Joco (4cdfb7) — 1/27/2009 @ 12:40 pmI’m sorry, Joco, but scoring 100-0 is not “cool.” It’s stupid. It’s an empty accomplishment, given the mismatch of the teams. The purpose of school athletics is in fact to learn lessons to prepare oneself for life. The lesson taught by the coach here is to have no mercy for the less able or the less fortunate, to be ruthless in all pursuits, to strive to achieve some meaningless numerical accomplishment no matter the cost to anybody else.
How do you even learn “how to play basketball” in that situation? Seriously. What basketball skills do you learn that couldn’t be learned even better in a practice?
He wasn’t fired for being silly, but for being needlessly cruel and for lacking fundamentals of good sportsmanship.
PatHMV (e392fa) — 1/27/2009 @ 12:42 pmJoco, I adore my old coach. I have no “issues” about him.
You can think there’s glory and honor all you want, but there’s not. None. Honor comes from accomplishing difficult tasks, from overcoming obstacles, from treating fellow human beings with respect even when one is more talented. Honor and glory do not come from rolling over the odometer on your car, or hitting “triple digits” against an out-classed opponent. Would winning by 99 points have been less honorable? His team should be hanging its head in shame because of what he made them do.
And firing the coach, who serves at the pleasure of the school, for not abiding by the lessons the school itself is trying to impart on its students, is not “hideous.” It’s free enterprise at its finest. If he doesn’t like the school’s rules, the school’s own sense of honor, then he has no business taking the school’s money.
PatHMV (e392fa) — 1/27/2009 @ 12:48 pm#44 Comment by Joco — 1/27/2009 @ 12:27 pm
Joco, we are not going to agree on this.
That’s the problem, he is an adult, this game is not supposed to be about him. It is suppose tobe about the children.
No, it is a bully tactic, but I lack the skill to explain, either you get it or you don’t.
The parents, the school, athletes who know the potential for the game, decent people…just guessing.
So why should an adult undo that lesson by example?
It was not suppose to be important. The score made it so, that is why we are talking about it and the media picked it up (if you are wondering why, I truly wish I could explain it). H
For being silly, yes I would agree with you; for teaching youngsters that the bully mentality is okay, no.
We are in disagreement – told ya (but I still enjoy your posts).
Pons Asinorum (61628f) — 1/27/2009 @ 12:56 pm*rolls eyes*
I was wrong before–the whining about this is now fully as annoying as that provoked by the Romney Oaks incident.
M. Scott Eiland (5ccff0) — 1/27/2009 @ 2:41 pmThank you for the reminder AD – and I agree; the values of honor and respect are a long and highly prized tradition among those schools. This is exactly what I have been arguing about – although you found a quote that expresses it much better. Such behavior, as we have here and now, would never have been tolerated.
So do invaluable ones.
Pons Asinorum (61628f) — 1/27/2009 @ 3:06 pmJust curious – if this thread is so annoying to you, why do you keep coming back for more (and then, just to whine about it)?
Pons Asinorum (61628f) — 1/27/2009 @ 3:21 pmFrom the article DRJ linked (losing coach is Civello):
“They are really good,” Civello said. “Their point guard is terrific. This is what it came down to in the second half: steal at half court and layup. Steal and layup. Steal and layup. It was a layup drill. They finally eased up when they got to 100 with about four minutes left.” Covenant’s point guard had 48 points.
Sounds like that dumb Adam Sandler movie where he had to go back and repeat every grade since kindergarten and then at recess goes out onto the playground and dominates.
Or maybe it was that recent movie where Vince Vaughn or some other nitwit enters the Special Olympics as a ringer.
Anyway, when someone weak and unable is thrown (particularly by league configuration and required scheduling) into the ring with you… the vastly physically superior opponent, the measure of your greatness is how you handle that particular challenge.
When there is no doubt that the final score will favor you by a huge margin, what becomes the challenge?
Win by shut out?
Certainly defense should be played with shape, discipline and energy.
Offense should be executed and plays run with precision and skill.
The coach of the vastly superior team with victory well in hand should find his own teams weaknesses and work on those things.
Lessons that one may have to reach outside of the immediate contest to teach… like
maybe running a half court trap against a dyslexic point guard when ahead 59-0 really isn’t as good a lesson for your team as learning how to win big graciously.
Micah Grimes was Adam Sandler as playground bully in Billy Madison. He came off like a guy who’d bring ringers to the Special Olympics.
Personally, I am a sore loser… whom I am aware no one likes.
SteveG (a87dae) — 1/27/2009 @ 5:33 pmLosing on the sport field is a bitter pill, and I am well aware that maintaining, class and dignity in the face of overwhelming defeat on the field of play does indeed build character in a most unwelcome way.
In today’s “self esteem is for me” world, winning without being an asshole is a forgotten art for some. Winning big with class seems even more forgotten…
Someone who can’t win big with class at the small religious High School league level should be fired.
Go be an asshole somewhere else.
I think Jesus was supposed to have said that somewhere in the Book of Revelation, but I never really have spent a lot of time at the end of many books so I might have got it wrong
Covenant (the “offending school) has explicit language built into its employees’ contracts that insist the employees adhere to the goals and vision of the school. Good sportsmanship and the instillation of discipline are goals of this school (and most any other I’ve known). This coach flouted such. He was unrepentant. He is gone. Good.
The account I read said that this tool left his starting five in the game until it was 79-0 in the 4th qtr. What? 50-0 wasn’t good enough? 60? 70? 75?
I do not blame his players. They were put on the floor and they were charged with doing their best. Hence, his claim that his girls played with “integrity.” I agree with him.
Having been an amateur sports official, who worked games in a league very similar to this one, I would have instituted a running clock once I recognized that the starters were kept in after halftime. I have done this very thing in football games that were long decided. No complaints were heard.
I will cite one example where a coach went too far in trying to keep the score down. Lou Holtz and his Irish were hosting Southern Methodist in 1989, who had been devastated by NCAA sanctions. When ND led by a score of ~56-6, he ordered that no player could score a touchdown. sure enough, a back-up running back broke completely free and was going for a TD. Suddenly, at the three yard line, with no opponent within 10 yards of him, he made a right turn and intentionally went out of bounds. SMU was livid.
To this day, ask an SMU person who saw this their feelings. Craig James, a former SMU great and current analyst for ABC/ESPN, still thinks ill of Lou for having done this.
By the way….SMU covered the spread (56) thanks to that maneuver. Had ND scored, the Irish would have covered. The final was 59-6. Did Lou point shave? No way of knowing. But, he did show-up his opponent.
Ed (f6461a) — 1/27/2009 @ 6:01 pmNot true, SteveG, you have at least two fans. That quote you attributed to Jesus was really funny (not sure on the accuracy though, but awesome still)! I showed it to my wife and we could not stop laughing.
We call it SteveG 3:16 (the name of the verse was inspired by Stone Cold Steve Austin 3:16, which was inspired by John 3:16).
She has already used it on me 😉
“Go be an asshole somewhere else.” SteveG 3:16
Pons Asinorum (61628f) — 1/27/2009 @ 6:15 pmJoe:
All of which, according to Grimes, he did:
Xrlq (62cad4) — 1/27/2009 @ 6:28 pm[…] here and here. And, for those with a thing for horses and their mouths, […]
damnum absque injuria » Bad Loser? (490ac4) — 1/27/2009 @ 6:47 pmHere is the view from Coach Civello Coach Civello from DRJ’s orignal post :
According to Coach Grimes :
And:
Coach Grimes knew it was wrong to run-up the score as revealed by his own words, but he did it anyway. The fact that he denies running-up the score after the fact is rendered meaningless by the facts of his coaching decisions (most notably, point guard in game until 48 points, stealing at half court until 100 points was scored, not running out the shot clock until the end of the game).
He did run-up the score, so the remaining debate is whether or not this is an acceptable practice. Coach Grimes knows that it is not – as do most athletes, coaches, referees, parents, students, and teachers involved as evidenced by the subsequent actions taken by the school (apology, firing, amends, etc).
This does not belong in high school basketball (Coach Grimes is correct in that regard). Coach Grimes denied his players the experience of a clean victory, class, honor, unity and pride. He denied them the tradition of sportsmanship to respect fellow athletes – a courtesy often rendered in the college and professional ranks. He embarrassed them. Fortunately Coach Grimes will have an opportunity to take his philosophy to the bigger leagues.
Pons Asinorum (61628f) — 1/28/2009 @ 12:08 amIt sounds to me like Coach Grimes made every reasonable effort to avoid running up the score, but the match was so bad between the teams that keeping the score down to 100 to 0 was the best he could. If they scored 59 in the first half without even trying, keeping the number down to 41 in the second half sounds like they exercised considerable restraint. Short of forbidding his girls to play at all, or ordering them to score a few “own goals” to benefit the other team, what the hell else was he supposed to do?
If anybody should be fired over this incident, it’s the dolt who thought it was a good idea to put these two teams in the same league.
Xrlq (62cad4) — 1/28/2009 @ 4:19 am“mercy rules” suck for the losing team. I know, when I was in high school, we had a new school, no seniors and had 3 or 4 football games ended early on us due to the league “mercy rule.” I was 2nd/3rd string, but I can still safely say that most of the team would have preferred to lose a complete game by 70 points, than to have the game ended early in the 3rd quarter by the 45 point rule. Most of us wanted to have the game playing opportunity, which the “mercy rule” cut short.
The coach was reluctant to play 2nd/3rd string even when 1st stringers were not performing or tired, because he didn’t want to have an early game end either.
We were juniors and sophomores, playing seniors and juniors. We didn’t necessarily expect to win, but we wanted the experience.
Loren (af2946) — 1/28/2009 @ 8:02 am“For being silly, yes I would agree with you; for teaching youngsters that the bully mentality is okay, no. ”
How can you arrive a this statement.
When Wellingon said that Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton, how do you know what he meant.
davod (bce08f) — 1/28/2009 @ 8:07 amComment by davod — 1/28/2009 @ 8:07 am
When Wellingon said that Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton, how do you know what he meant.
You are correct, I do not know for certain. I do know that the British Army is big on traditions of honor, discipline, and respect. I suspect these are some of the characteristics implied by Wellington, but I am not certain.
Pons Asinorum (61628f) — 1/28/2009 @ 8:40 amWhen the weak pick on the strong simply because they can, especially when it involves youngsters, I believe it is a form of bullying (my opinion).
Coach Grimes knows that running up a score is wrong (he stated so himself — #59). So why did he do it? According to Coach Civello “They finally eased up when they got to 100 with about four minutes left.”
Why not ease up earlier (say with a 40, 50 or 60 point lead)? Coach Grimes had the power to ease-up but choose not to do so until after scoring 100 points (simply because he could).
As the adult in charge, he used his power to blast the other team. In my opinion this is the mentality of a bully.
Pons Asinorum (61628f) — 1/28/2009 @ 9:03 amOops — should read “When the strong pick on the weak simply because they can…”
my bad 😉
Pons Asinorum (61628f) — 1/28/2009 @ 9:27 amIt sounds to me like Coach Grimes made every reasonable effort to avoid running up the score
No. No. No.
You don’t attempt to hold down the score while scoring 100 points in a game that lasts, what, 32 minutes? I read that the opposing team attempted less than 10 shots. That means they were pressuring the ball, while up > 60 points. The simple answer is to play zone defense with all your players stationed in the lane, daring the team to hit shots from outside 15 feet (or so).
This is akin to the Red Sox stealing 9 bases in the top of the 9th inning while beating the Yankees 35-0 and then brushing back batters in the bottom of the 9th. It’s bad sportsmanship and the strong taking advantage of the weak.
Those kids didn’t learn a lesson by constantly stealing the ball from special needs kids. The coach was an a$$hat for running up the score and all you folks gleefully quoting college football coaches like Billy Tubbs only exhaserbate the situation since Billy Tubbs made a career of stomping lesser schools & then having his talented teams get ‘upset’ every season when it came time to play the big games. A little character could’ve helped.
[Bobby Bowden *would* call off the dogs, yet his teams still had huge victories. That they’d score running the FB is different than throwing bombs while up 50 in the 4th qtr, which is why Bowden is considered classy & Tubbs was an a-hole]
RW (689026) — 1/29/2009 @ 8:36 am