Via Hot Air (actually, via my own blog! see UPDATE) comes a clip about a school so mortified that one of its teams won 100-0 that it is seeking to forfeit the game:
So the question is: if you can win 100-0, is it wrong to do so?
UPDATE: I am an idiot. DRJ already blogged this here.
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Patterico (cc3b34) — 1/24/2009 @ 11:38 amWill you be mortified if I point out that DRJ also blogged this story, here?
nk (bf9c84) — 1/24/2009 @ 11:53 amWhich is worse, treating the other team as competitors, or lessors? Having been on a winning team in the past that had a negative media write up regarding a lopsided game, I can tell you that the belittlement of victory is part of a dangerous mindset in victim ideology and passive aggression.
Any move on the losers or their supporters part to attempt to gain sympathy is a strategy in itself, and should be recognized as such.
Apogee (f4320c) — 1/24/2009 @ 11:54 amActually, I believe this is a follow-up on DRJs blog.
John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 1/24/2009 @ 11:54 amEven my vapid (typically) comments?
Old Coot (543f9d) — 1/24/2009 @ 11:54 amAnd this is a Nitszchean situation without an easy answer. What is more humiliating when you are up against a superior opponent? To be crushed or pitied? From the victor’s prospective … should the eagle learn to burrow or should the worm learn to fly?
nk (bf9c84) — 1/24/2009 @ 11:59 amWill you be mortified if I point out that DRJ also blogged this story, here?
Yes. Yes, I am. Completely.
Patterico (cc3b34) — 1/24/2009 @ 12:00 pmApogee, there is a difference between winning decisively and just plain poor sportsmanship.
When the Cleveland Cavaliers were on their NBA-record 12+point-margin-of-win win-streak, LeBron and the other starters got lots of 4th quarter bench time. Pull the starters, play the reserves.
College and NFL football teams regularly turn off their air attack and just slowly pound the ball on the ground, taking as much time as possible to eat up the clock instead of running up the score.
Nobody on that high school basketball team learned anything by running up the score. Perhaps they learned a little humility afterward and possibly a little lesson in good sportsmanship, but they didn’t learn anything while the game was in progress.
John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 1/24/2009 @ 12:01 pmApogee and I seem to agree on the question but I reserve judgment on the answer.
nk (bf9c84) — 1/24/2009 @ 12:01 pmThey need a new media advisor. It was bad enough when they ran up the score. Now they have given the story new legs.
Mike K (ee3203) — 1/24/2009 @ 12:04 pmIf both of these teams had players of equal age and non with physical handicaps, then one of the teams did’t belong playing anyone and their coach was a moron. I don’t think you should run up scores but come on 100-0 the team that lost didn’t belong in the sport the coach and team sponsors should be ashamed of fielding such a team and they deserved what they got.
St Clair (dda662) — 1/24/2009 @ 12:07 pmHot Air is closed to more people then it is open to and you can’t get on to comment, so it is okay to repost. Obviously many of you can comment on hotair.
St Clair (dda662) — 1/24/2009 @ 12:11 pmSt Clair, a high school with an entire 20 girls wanted a high school girls basketball team. What’s so wrong with that?
John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 1/24/2009 @ 12:12 pmI didn’t actually look at this link, but had read the story on a different blog.
I’m not quite sure what type of learning disability the students have, but my first thought at hearing this was: If their learning disability affects their play, why were they paired against other teams without such a disability? This seems cruel from the outset, as they’ve never won a game, and this system seems broken for starters, which goes far beyond the coaching.
The second change was the possibility that the other team never took out their starters, which is insulting to the winner’s second string. If you’re not going in when you’re up by 80, why show up to practice at all?
In my opinion, teams shouldn’t hold back, but pairings should be at least vaguely equal, and teams are more than just the starters.
Apogee (f4320c) — 1/24/2009 @ 12:17 pmSorry to have been the bearer, Patterico, but if your friends won’t tell you …?
nk (bf9c84) — 1/24/2009 @ 12:17 pmAs a conservative, I have to note we unfortunately have a lot in common with the losing team of girls.
Rather than gardnering pity, how about fighting back?
Joe (17aeff) — 1/24/2009 @ 12:18 pmJoe – if you’re going to be gardnering pity, remember that it doesn’t do well in sunlight.
Apogee (f4320c) — 1/24/2009 @ 12:23 pmGive me 20 girls to make into a basketball team and I will give you a team that could not possibly lose 100-0 playing of team of their peers even if that school had 1000 girls.
St Clair (dda662) — 1/24/2009 @ 12:27 pmI fought two guys at once, with fists, when I was young. They beat the hell out of me. They asked me if I wanted to stop, in the middle of the fight, and I said “No”. They beat me up more. My only “regret” is that I could not have fought better. I survived and succeeded. The Dallas Academy girls also survived and will maybe kick the Covenant girls’ behinds in courtroom as lawyers, a Presidential race, or a NASCAR race for that matter.
nk (bf9c84) — 1/24/2009 @ 12:27 pm______________________________
I wonder if the “sensible fifth grader” quoted below is more likely to grow up to be a, say, registered Democrat, a big fan of politicians like, well, our current president?
Or more likely to grow up and prefer thinking and decisionmaking (and decisionmakers) that are down-to-earth and less prone to nonsense?
(I am not surprised that many people of the left have through the years grown to favor the euphemism of “progressive” to describe their politics and mindset.)
Mark (411533) — 1/24/2009 @ 12:28 pm______________________________
I have learned far more getting the crap kicked out of me than I ever learned by victories. It is the prior disappointments that make later victories so much sweeter. The key is not giving up.
Joe (17aeff) — 1/24/2009 @ 12:32 pmI don’t find the score problematic by itself. If the coach played everyone and the team was simply that much better I see no reason to let up. I haven’t seen enough information to know whether the starters were kept in or not. If they were that would be both poor sportsmanship and a diservice to the team. How else are the other team members to learn?
Soronel Haetir (cabedb) — 1/24/2009 @ 12:41 pmWasn’t Obama basically saying the same thing to the Republicans when he justified his trillion dollar spree by saying “I won”?
Huey (248d33) — 1/24/2009 @ 12:44 pmThe high school I attended opened in 1975. They had their first graduating class in 1977, prior juniors and seniors had stayed at the schools they were attending before we opened. I graduated in 1984. The following year the Homecoming Football game resulted in huge celebrations.
Have Blue (974cdf) — 1/24/2009 @ 12:47 pmVictory over rival school?
Actually our team had scored its first touchdown ever in a Varsity game.
My point: you can have average talent but if you have good teaches, good coaches and a will to play the game you will not be skunked. You will probably have a winning season or a least be in the game most of the timek and be respected by your opponents.
St Clair (dda662) — 1/24/2009 @ 12:51 pmBarry Switzer was often reviled for his purposeful scheduling of third – tier schools, all in order to run up the Sooner’s rankings by posting scores of 82 – 3. I disliked him for it then, and if the winning school here knew about their opponent’s ineptitude, the question is why schedule the game in the first place. Were they in the same league, or was this inter – conference play?
Dmac (eb0dd0) — 1/24/2009 @ 12:53 pmThey are in the same conference.
John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 1/24/2009 @ 12:59 pmIn that case, I really can’t blame the school here – but there’s nothing wrong with putting in your second string during blow – outs. I remember Phil Jackson doing this regularly during the Bull’s championship runs, and I know Coach K at Duke does it as well – even Knight did it at Indiana.
Dmac (eb0dd0) — 1/24/2009 @ 1:23 pmIt’s a big world out there, with unfairness in bountiful supply. This quote from the ‘losing’ coach came from DRJ’s link, and should remind us that there’s more to winning and losing than just the winning and losing. I’ve been on both sides of blowouts, and I must say I was always much more uncomfortable on the winning side. But that’s just a personal angle that varies with the individual. I came away from the story with the impression that neither the coach nor the players were devastated in the least by the outcome of the game. It’s often difficult to keep from inserting our own egos into these kind of stories, and I think that’s where the outrage being expressed may be sourced.
“...The Bulldogs play, Civello said, for more than the final score. They play in hope of improving skills, learning teamwork and picking up whatever life lessons athletics may bring…”
As in the prior thread, I’d suggest that mismatches of this sort could be ameliorated by creating tiers within leagues based on past performance. That is, if such mismatches are indeed debilitating, and the leagues are large enough to accommodate such re-structuring.
allan (1061cd) — 1/24/2009 @ 1:25 pm100-0 is a great result if it is Marines vs. Taliban. And 1000-0 is even better.
League Basketball game vs. this type of vastly overmatched opponent, I don’t play the starters past the end of Q2.
We’d fall back into our own half after a score and give up the half court trapping scheme.
We’d work on our zone defense even if we usually play man.
I get everyone off our bench down to the 12th player and we’d run plays for those players from the end of the bench to work on their long range offense and to shoot from the three point line if possible.
We wouldn’t push the ball upcourt after a steal, we’d set up the above mentioned offense.
If I am the coach getting whipped, I get my best and toughest athlete and have her drive into the middle and tell her to make sure she gets contact.
I’d get her to the free throw line.
After the game I’d have to be careful not to shove the opposing coach into the gatorade and then start beating his big dumb ass with a folding chair.
I played in a soccer game where we had to play the best team in our league with only 8 guys.
Our goal keeper for the day was a guy whose previous experience in goalkeeping was pee wee league hockey.
We were losing something like 10-0 and they were taunting us, so I switched to a total scorched earth policy and decided to let the ref sort out how far he’d let me go before tossing me.
It was awesome.
The ref let me hit late, early, and high with elbows, cleats, shoulders, but gave them swarms of cards if they so much as bumped me.
He finally tossed me with about 10 minutes left, probably for my own safety.
I can handle losing, but games like that bring out the Scotch-Irish in me, which then meets up with my Viking side and a red mist descends in front of my eyes….
SteveG (a87dae) — 1/24/2009 @ 3:00 pmTo paraphrase Robin Williams: losing 100-0 is God’s way of letting you know that your team doesn’t belong in that league. If I had been the Dallas Academy coach, I would have gone to the Covenant coach at halftime, conceded the game, and immediately phoned my school’s athletic director about getting my girls into a league where they could at least lose respectably without expecting the other team to fall down and play dead to spare our feelings. While this “controversy” doesn’t irritate me as much as the shrieking over Romney Oaks a few years back, I really think a lot of these bleeding heart sportswriters who push this pap on us really need to get lives.
M. Scott Eiland (5ccff0) — 1/24/2009 @ 3:11 pmSportswriters don’t have any actual lives in the first place – the genre has typically produced some of the worst hacks in the journalisitic profession.
Dmac (eb0dd0) — 1/24/2009 @ 4:45 pm“journalistic.”
Dmac (eb0dd0) — 1/24/2009 @ 4:45 pmWhen WNBA great Lisa Leslie was at Moringside High in Inglewood, she once scored 101 points in a single half! Keep in mind, this is a high school game where the quarters are only eight minutes long. The demoralized team, down 102-24 at the half decided not to play the second half. I mention this merely to point out that this sort of boorish behavior is nothing new in high school sports. As long as there are a**hole coaches, this kind of thing will go on. At least The Covenant School is showing a certain level of grace by offering to retroactively forfeit. Morningside didn’t have that level of class 19 years ago.
JVW (bff0a4) — 1/24/2009 @ 5:08 pmIn that case, I really can’t blame the school here – but there’s nothing wrong with putting in your second string during blow – outs.
Dmac (1:23 pm), in both the Dallas case and the one I have cited above, the coaches continues to full-court press and to score as quickly as possible. As I recall, in the Morningside game they were even surrendering easy buckets to their opponent just to get the ball back (that’s why the other team managed 24 points at the half). It’s a classless move regardless of whether or not you empty your bench.
I once saw a high school football team go up 49-0 at the half against a clearly overmatched opponent, with the second string playing the entire second quarter after the starters had staked them to a 28-0 lead. The second and third string pushed it to a 63-0 lead after three quarters. At that point, the coach had his team run nothing more than fullback up the middle for the rest of the game. He also had his punt returner fair catch all punts (they had already returned two or three for TDs). They still managed to pick up some first downs, but they didn’t score any more points and the final score remained 63-0. It was still a blowout, but the winning team was acknowledged to have comported themselves with class and grace.
JVW (bff0a4) — 1/24/2009 @ 5:16 pmI see nothing wrong with having the second third string play as hard as they can against overmatched opponents. It may be little more than what the first string normally experiences during practice, but at least it’s some reps. Otherwise when one of your starters gets hurt or is inelgible for some reason no one else on the team is prepared to go in.
Soronel Haetir (cabedb) — 1/24/2009 @ 6:09 pmNominally I agree with Soronel Haetir’s comment (6:09 pm). However, when even your third string is overwhelming the opponent it is time to call off the dogs. If it is that important to the team that back-ups get a chance to learn how to play, you can put them in when you are up early in the game. There is hardly any excuse for taking the lead from 59-0 to 100-0 in the span of two quarters.
JVW (bff0a4) — 1/24/2009 @ 8:07 pmWe need an Anti-Dog-Eat-Dog Act to prevent teams from winning too much.
Daryl Herbert (b65640) — 1/24/2009 @ 9:15 pmOr we could teach our young about honor…but nah, better to teach them to prey on the weak.
Teaching our high school children to demean and prey on those that they can is shameful, as are the adults that support or encourage such action. Such are the ethics of a bully.
Soldiers fight for life or death, pro-athletes play for money and glory; all are adults, and the code of victory is well understood. Equating this code as the proper code to be taught to children is as foolish as presenting the ethics of adult behavior as proper for the ethics of juvenile behavior.
What is surprising about this game is the number of adults supporting this reprehensible behavior. In some quarters of our country, dishonorable behavior is tolerated and even worshipped. This kind of thing is expected to happen in places like California, New York, Vermont, and Massachusetts – but the fact that it occurred in Texas is truly disturbing. I think this does not bode well for us.
Pons Asinorum (500dfa) — 1/24/2009 @ 11:44 pmYou might want to go ahead and bookmark that “Patterico’s” blog. Good stuff there.
Beldar (ea7dca) — 1/25/2009 @ 3:05 amI believe mercy rules are a good thing for youth sports, especially contact sports where members of the losing team can become very frustrated and resort to cheap shots that can result in injuries.
Perhaps if they had a mercy rule in place in the league, where any team that has a 40 point advantage, the game is considered over. Quality coaches will play the game as usual and let it end. Other coaches, until they learn to do the right thing, will have their players sit back and not try as hard. That’s not the classy way to approach it.
The game is all about determining a true winner and a 30-40 point spread in youth basketball certainly does that.
PC14 (82e46c) — 1/25/2009 @ 9:40 amSteveG #30:
Ira (28a423) — 1/25/2009 @ 11:13 amThanks for the entertainingly written comment. I laughed out loud.
Well, I was just defeated, gazillion to zero, by a kitchen drain that will not allow my drain auger through. I am totally humiliated.
nk (bf9c84) — 1/25/2009 @ 11:52 amThere is a mercy rule. It is built into every human being and does not need to be “written” down to invoke it – except by defective adults who desire to teach children the adult equivalent of “if it is not against the law, then it is okay…”.
Sad.
Pons Asinorum (500dfa) — 1/25/2009 @ 12:34 pmQ: If you can win 100-0, is it wrong to do so?
A: Yes if you’re Israel, no if you’re Hamas.
If the losers are Hamas, they can just declare victory regardless of the score anyway. Also, they can suspend the game and continue it at any time they choose. And they can hide out in the audience to avoid having to play by the rules.
starboardhelm (94c0da) — 1/25/2009 @ 4:37 pmThe winning coach has been fired.
DRJ (9debaf) — 1/25/2009 @ 6:07 pmAlright Texas!!
Pons Asinorum (500dfa) — 1/26/2009 @ 10:57 amPC gone bad.
If you suck that bad, stop playing.
Obama über alles!!!!! (48dd5e) — 1/26/2009 @ 12:08 pmGreat idea –teach children not about honor, but how to cut and run. Teach them the ethics of a bully.
It is not the children who refused to quit that did wrong (of course if that needs explaining, then it will not be understood). It is not even the children who carried out the wishes of their coach, who did wrong. It is the coach who decided to teach them the ethics of a bully.
Athletics on this level is a game; it is not war or livelihood, but sports (and belongs to all children just starting off in life, or at that age where they want to try).
Only defective adults would try to infect these youngsters with the idea that dishonorable behavior is justified on a high school basketball court.
I am so glad the people of Texas drew a hard line here, as more and more American adults seem to worship dishonorable behavior (and insist on teaching our children the ways of a bully).
Pons Asinorum (61628f) — 1/26/2009 @ 5:10 pmJVW wrote:
How do you do that? The third-stringers want their chance to play, too, and how do you coach them not to play, not to develop their shots, not to try?
The sporting Dana (556f76) — 1/26/2009 @ 5:22 pmThe losers claim the winners were still pressing and shooting 3s until the last 4 minutes of the 4th quarter — reportedly the same time the score reached 100. I don’t know if that report is true but the winning coach didn’t deny it, and if it is true then the coach should have called off the press and told his players not to shoot 3s in the second half. His bench players would have gotten good experience passing the ball and looking for inside lanes.
DRJ (9debaf) — 1/26/2009 @ 5:48 pmHow do you do that? The third-stringers want their chance to play, too, and how do you coach them not to play, not to develop their shots, not to try?
Girls’ high school basketball has a 30 second shot clock. Your order your team to burn the first 20 seconds and only run the offense in the last 10. This still gives the bench players the valuable experience of running the plays in a hurry-up situation. You also call off your press and go to a tightly packed zone defense.
JVW (bff0a4) — 1/26/2009 @ 6:37 pmIf I remember the story DRJ originally linked, the starting Point Guard was still playing in the 4th quarter, stealing the ball at mid-court and fast-breaking for points. Also, if I remember right, the starting Point Guard had 40 of the team’s 100 points.
That, my friends, is running up the score.
John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 1/26/2009 @ 6:39 pmAgain, PC run amok.
Did the losers stop playing?
Obama über alles!!!!! (48dd5e) — 1/26/2009 @ 7:21 pmNo, they went on to score 100 points.
It is not about political correctness, it is about decency.
Pons Asinorum (61628f) — 1/26/2009 @ 10:27 pmNor is it about the team that scored zero points – they will are fine. The young women that were harmed were from the “100-point” team – they are the ones that were deprived.
Honor, respect, unity, pride – these are all values that the youngsters of the “100-point” team were denied by an adult coach who failed to deliver to his team (and for a bonus, they get to ponder the mentality of a bully as a life choice).
Pons Asinorum (61628f) — 1/26/2009 @ 10:28 pmI believe this is an example of the “I can so I should” fallacy. And if there isn’t such a named fallacy, I hereby name it.
John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 1/26/2009 @ 10:31 pmYes, I called it the bully mentality, but that is it precisely. Good call, John.
Pons Asinorum (61628f) — 1/26/2009 @ 10:47 pm(A million years ago), I used to play basketball in Junior High (and football, wrestling, track & field, and baseball). One of the schools we played basketball with was the Montana School for the Deaf and Blind. The contest was never in doubt, but under no circumstances did the coach allow us to run up the score. It was not difficult to manage. At the end of the game we did not have any way to communicate directly (none of us knew sign language), but unmistakable was the enthusiasm of the handshakes and smiles (on both sides). There was appreciation, respect, pride; it is difficult to explain with the written word due to my lack of skill.
Even adult athletes often extend this courtesy to their opponents (although not always). It is not such a mental contortion to consistently expect adult-coached juvenile teams to observe these traditions of honor and respect. It is a teaching moment and so much more – sad that this would be denied to some.
It is most satisfying that those involved with high school athletics saw fit to make amends, and that the people of Texas still value the concepts of honor and respect.
Pons Asinorum (61628f) — 1/26/2009 @ 10:48 pmI call it the bully mentality mentality. Since when are sports supposed to be played nice? You’re supposed to play to win, and win big if you can. If you don’t want teams to get slaughtered, change the rules to make them forfeit earlier. Don’t blame the team that plays the game the way it’s meant to be played.
Xrlq (62cad4) — 1/27/2009 @ 4:13 amThere are times when winning is everything and times when it is not. Some understand, and some do not.
If it has to be explained to you, you will not understand the explanation.
Pons Asinorum (61628f) — 1/27/2009 @ 11:34 amIn other words, you’re full of crap, and since I’m not full of the same kind of crap, I must not “understand.” Only problem is, I fully understand – it’s just that I understand you are full of crap. Understanding != agreement.
Xrlq (62cad4) — 1/27/2009 @ 4:33 pmXrlq…
Please try to post something with actual information next time instead of the mindless gibberish you slung in #61. Or, if you don’t wish to have your opinions valued in any way, shape or form, do continue your mindless drivel-filled opinion-free mud-slinging.
John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 1/27/2009 @ 4:38 pm“Since when are sports supposed to be played nice? You’re supposed to play to win, and win big if you can”
Putting the ‘sport’ into ‘sportsmanship.’
imdw (ae4236) — 1/27/2009 @ 4:40 pmThose are your words, not mine – but I do have a question. In your first sentence does “I” mean me and in you second sentence does “I” mean you? I wish you would just say what you mean and not speak for me – you just are not capable of doing so.
Agreed that “understanding” is not always equivalent to “agreement”, however your equation is flawed because sometimes it is.
We have different experiences and values. We weight principles of ethics and honor differently. I would never allow you to teach any of my children, but that does not mean you are (to use your words) “full of crap” – so please give yourself a break.
As far as you insulting me (when you say I am “full of crap”), well, that sort of behavior proves my point about our different values. Again, I would not allow you to teach my children. Also, because of your need to personally insult people: a) it is not surprising that you and coach Micah Grimes share a similar philosophy, and b) you are out of logical and objective arguments.
Pons Asinorum (61628f) — 1/27/2009 @ 5:06 pmJH, two can play that game. It’s not as though your comment in 63, or any of the other crap you’ve spewed in this thread, offered any more actual information than mine did in 62. The only difference is that you’re getting all self-righteous about it. If you are actually interested in substance, you might want to start with Grimes’s own account of the game. If you can find other primary sources to contradict it, let’s hear them. But if you can’t, the rest of us can do without your idle “he’s just a big meanie” whining, which you, Pons, and too many others to count appear to have made up out of whole cloth.
Pons, telling you you’re full of crap is not an insult. It’s simply a statement of fact. If it’s an insult to anyone or anything, it’s an insult to your idea, as that’s what I’m calling crap. Deal with it.
And I wish you would master basic English pronouns. When I (Xrlq) write addressing you (Pons), “I” means “Xrlq,” and “you” means “Pons.” When you (Pons) use these same pronouns, their meanings reverse. That’s how first and second person pronouns work. Sorry if it’s confusing.
Xrlq (62cad4) — 1/27/2009 @ 6:34 pmNo need to apologize, but thanks anyway. Thanks for clearing up the confusion. Regarding #62 — I reread your rant and yes, I get it now. It was completely a personal attack (I gave you more credit than I should have).
Resorting to personal attacks is the refuge of the weak-minded. When you are unable to debate in a civil fashion (using logical and objective terms), you became frustrated and resorted to a personal attack.
Telling someone that he is “full of crap” is an insult. Please note the lack of logical and objective terms.
That you deny your attack is well, pathetic and is dishonest.
Although I think you are wrong about this issue, I do not hold contempt for you or anyone else with a different point of view. In my opinion almost everyone in this thread has debated in an honest and forthcoming manner (even you-minus your personal attack).
I know you felt the need to launch you personal attack against me because you had nothing else to offer. I hope it made you feel good.
I am so glad you are not teaching my children.
Pons Asinorum (61628f) — 1/27/2009 @ 11:01 pmPons Asinoroum, you pompous ass. Is that where your handle comes from? If not, it should be. Regardless, get off your high horse already. You are the one who started in substituting lame insults for logical and/or objective terms, not me. I merely responded in kind, and now you’re whining that the other guy hit back. If you want to get your panties in a bunch over being told you’re full of crap – even when you are – that’s your problem, not mine.
With all due respect, Pompous Ass, you don’t “know” anything about what I think or feel, and are a prick to claim you do. Had you bothered reading the last comment from beginning to end, you’d know that I did have something else to offer, namely a link to the coach’s blog entry which contradicted other facts you also falsely claimed to “know.” But why bother reading an account from someone who was there, and was himself the subject of the entire controversy, when you “know” everything already?
Last and least, lose your hard-on over me teaching vs. not teaching your kids. I’m not in the business of teaching anybody’s kids, save for my own. Apparently you had me mixed up with someone else. Or, to phrase it in terms Pompous Ass can understand, apparently you “know” I’m someone else.
Xrlq (62cad4) — 1/28/2009 @ 4:00 amToo funny!
Every comment prior to #62 had something to offer – facts, opinions, anecdotes, sports analogies, quotes, arguments, and counter-arguments. Then you authored your comment #62 that solely was a personal attack.
I do not blame you to pretend it was otherwise (a bit untruthful, but under the circumstances, yeah you should try to get out of it). Nor do I blame you for your subsequent tirade (I find it quite comical).
Feel free to continue your rants and insults.
Have fun and sorry to have upset you so much.
Pons Asinorum (61628f) — 1/28/2009 @ 8:30 am