Bush Commutes Ramos/Compean Sentences
[Guest post by DRJ]
President Bush commuted the sentences of former U.S. Border Patrol agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean:
“In his final acts of clemency, President George W. Bush on Monday commuted the prison sentences of two former U.S. Border Patrol agents whose convictions for shooting a Mexican drug dealer ignited fierce debate about illegal immigration.
***
Bush didn’t pardon the men for their crimes, but decided instead to commute their prison sentences because he believed they were excessive and that they had already suffered the loss of their jobs, freedom and reputations, a senior administration official said.The action by the president, who believes the border agents received fair trials and that the verdicts were just, does not diminish the seriousness of their crimes, the official said.
Compean and Ramos, who have served about two years of their sentences, are expected to be released from prison within the next two months.”
I applaud this decision. There weren’t grounds to set aside the jury verdict but I think the sentences were excessive because of the weapons enhancement.
H/T EricPW Johnson.
— DRJ
Why do they have to wait two months to get their freedom back?
rab (7a9e13) — 1/19/2009 @ 10:39 amIt’s about time – of course, it was past time for a commutation the day they reported to prison!
AD (c9522d) — 1/19/2009 @ 10:40 amWhat a sad day for justice. What a pathetic way for Bush to round out his days in office. After years of keeping his own counsel he bows to political pressure.the
Soronel Haetir (cabedb) — 1/19/2009 @ 10:50 amI don’t applaud the decision at all; I think that pardoning lying men with badges and guns is a precedent that will serve us for ill during the next administration.
Yes, they were being made an example of; that was a feature, not a bug.
Joel Rosenberg (5ec843) — 1/19/2009 @ 10:54 amFor Bush not to have at least commuted the sentences would have been a poke in the eye of all the conservatives that disagreed with W on border enforcement. Ramos and Compean did not deserve to be caught in the middle of a political fight and it’s to Bush’s credit that he did what he did.
Besides, Obama would have made their commutations his first act to portray Bush as a cold-hearted meanie. Anything to triangulate the issue.
MU789 (c852bc) — 1/19/2009 @ 10:54 amSoronel Haetir wrote:
Yeah, Soronel. He should have done it for the right reason — hundreds of thousands of dollars in donations to his presidential library, like Slick Willie did.
L.N. Smithee (a30bed) — 1/19/2009 @ 10:55 amComment by Joel Rosenberg — 1/19/2009 @ 10:54 am
You should try a course on Semantics, for words do mean something.
AD (c9522d) — 1/19/2009 @ 10:56 amRamos and Compean did not receive a Pardon, but a Commutation.
You do know the difference don’t you?
**rhetorical question, as you obviously, by your comment, do not**
It was Johnny Sutton who freed these men.
EricPWJohnson (6d4725) — 1/19/2009 @ 11:00 amBelieve it or not…
EricPWJohnson (6d4725) — 1/19/2009 @ 11:01 amJoel Rosenberg wrote:
Hey Joel, you may want to take a reading comprehension course. They weren’t pardoned, their sentences were commuted because the sentences were excessive — or at least that’s the story.
One wonders, however, when that epiphany occurred when folks like myself were questioning why it was so maddog important for Bush’s pal Johnny Sutton to lock ’em up for a decade.
Uh, yeah, Joel, it was the LEOs that were being made examples of when Sutton fought tooth and nail to conceal from a jury that the poor drug dealer they shot abused the privilege of immunity they gave him. Had Aldrete-Davila not been caught with a second shipment of dope, he would have gotten away with a patch on his butt, but a victory over the Border Patrol in his back pocket, and possibly millions in a civil suit.
That’s a real good example, ain’t it?
L.N. Smithee (a30bed) — 1/19/2009 @ 11:06 amHallelujah!!
Patricia (89cb84) — 1/19/2009 @ 11:14 amThis whole matter cost Bush dearly with a lot of usual supporters like me. I think the entire prosecution was flawed by the connections of this drug dealer. He has not stopped his drug running, by the way. The entire affair stinks.
Mike K (f89cb3) — 1/19/2009 @ 11:27 amBush is pure evil according to the loyal,ever so patriotic left. It was fine that AG designate Holder help those PR terrorists to be set free. And Marc Rich sure did pay a steep price for his crimes and showed how recalcitrant he was.
What I’m not getting is why none of the treasonous scumwads inhabiting the CIA and State Dept. were never prosecuted or even chastised for their eight years of heinous acts.
aoibhneas (0c6cfc) — 1/19/2009 @ 11:29 amNice. Thank you, President Bush.
And Soronel? Political pressure means nothing, especially at this late date. Bush has a long history of not bending to political pressure.
Pablo (99243e) — 1/19/2009 @ 11:32 amThe insensate clod should have done it two years ago. I think that my final judgment of Doofus 43 will be that he “just does not get it”. He has a head full of cement. He does not know, he does not think, and he cannot be bothered to learn or think.
nk (9097f8) — 1/19/2009 @ 11:33 amThose who corrected me that the lying former federal agents who shot a man and then tried to cover it up had their sentences commuted were not pardoned are correct; my apologies. I still think that the commuting of the sentences of the lying former federal agents who shot a man and then tried to cover it up was wrong, but it definitely was a matter of lying former federal agents who shot a man and then tried to cover it up having their sentences commuted, not pardoned.
Joel Rosenberg (5ec843) — 1/19/2009 @ 11:39 amJoel, poison the well much?
John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 1/19/2009 @ 11:48 amEricPWJohnson,
Thanks for keeping us posted on this story. I agree Sutton was involved because I don’t think President Bush would do anything on this case without consulting with his long-time ally and friend, the US Attorney in charge of prosecuting the case.
Sutton made statements during the aftermath of the verdict that suggested he thought the sentences were excessive, but he still defended bringing the weapons enhancement charge. Previous commenters thought Sutton unsuccessfully used the enhancement as leverage to try to get them to plead. That makes sense. It also makes sense that, if Sutton felt that way, he would recommend their sentences be commuted.
DRJ (345e40) — 1/19/2009 @ 11:51 amJoel,
I think the point (and I believe even the prosecutor, Sutton, said this) is that the jury’s sentence for these defendants for their actions in shooting, lying and covering up was 1 year for Ramos and 2 years for Compean. They have served those sentences. Both also got 10 year sentences because they were carrying guns, but they were carrying guns because they were required to as law enforcement officers.
You can certainly decide that enhancement is justified because of the danger presented by rogue law enforcement officers, but hopefully you can also understand that not everyone feels that way. Maybe in Minnesota your biggest concern is rogue cops. We have other concerns here in West Texas.
DRJ (345e40) — 1/19/2009 @ 11:57 am#8 Comment by EricPWJohnson — 1/19/2009 @ 11:00 am
Not saying you are wrong, just wonder what the source for this statement is? From everything I have seen from Johnny Sutton, I would have a hard time believing that he would ever do anything that might imply his decisions in this case might have been anything other than sound.
Jay Curtis (8f6541) — 1/19/2009 @ 12:12 pmHear, hear!
DRJ, I think I may be a bit more right than you based in part on your commentary within this commentary section (focusing on “comments” and not “blog post”) and I think many will agree, if they catch the double entendre. 😉
John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 1/19/2009 @ 12:14 pmThe post was mine, John, and referred to the way the drug runner was treated. I’ve read quite a bit about the case and think it should have been an administrative punishment and not a criminal case. There was always something fishy about the case and the connections of the drug runner.
MIke K (8df289) — 1/19/2009 @ 12:19 pmMy apologies for misappropriating the quote. I grabbed the wrong one at first and did a piecemeal correction before posting mine.
My quote in #21 should go to Mike K and not nk, and the time of the quote should be adjusted to fit, as well.
Again, apologies for my misappropriations.
John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 1/19/2009 @ 12:31 pmDRJ: it’s pretty hard to avoid having guns involved in the covering up of a shooting, after all; that’s kind of the nature of a covering up of a shooting, isn’t it?
As to whether or not the sentences were excessive, I dunno. My criminal defense lawyer friends are generally of the opinion that determinant sentences are a bad idea, generally; if that’s the case, perhaps there shouldn’t be a Special People exception.
If police corruption — both petty and otherwise — is so rare in Texas, I don’t know that it would be a bad idea to make a particular example of these two; if it’s worse than you think it is, I don’t know if it would be a bad idea to make an example of these two.
Then again, this wasn’t a Texas issue, but a Federal one, so maybe that’s not all that important. While we don’t have the same border problems up here in South Manitoba, we do have a border, and all, and we do have Federal agents, and I think it’s bad enough that folks with badges already have reason to think that they can get away with some of the “isolated incidents” we’ve documented up here without encouraging them to think that in the unlikely event that they get caught, get a prosecutor who is intent on doing his job, and then get a jury that is intent on doing theirs, they still get the Special People treatment . . .
As to Ramos and Compean, lessee . . . they’ll go through the rest of their lives as convicted felons with an intimate knowledge of the weakness of the Border Patrol service, little to no moral character, many connections in the Mexican drug trade, a great desire to earn lots of money, and skills that they can no longer use in their original trade.
Perhaps there’s some way in which that just might end badly; I dunno.
Joel Rosenberg (5ec843) — 1/19/2009 @ 12:50 pmGood call by Bush. Letting them serve some time and leaving the felony convictions on their record is, in my opinion, the right one. Our LE people need to be held to a higher standard of conduct in performance of duties.
voiceofreason2 (f237cf) — 1/19/2009 @ 12:56 pmI don’t know what “LE” means. Is that “left end?” Like “left wing?” Or is that “liberal educator?”
I know my 3 questions are tongue-in-cheek, but I really don’t know what “LE” means. And my 3 questions are pointed comedy. The Left has no problem with “lowest common denominator” valuations regarding their side, but the left holds the right to the “higher standard” requirements the right wants for all public figures.
And I strongly believe this whole thing was a witch-hunt from the beginning. It was a D measure to attack R, cut and dried, insofar as I am concerned.
Those two border agents were right in their actions and should’ve been rewarded, not imprisoned. But that’s my opinion on the information I garnered from the whole spectacle.
John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 1/19/2009 @ 1:14 pmOh, I just figured it out: Law Enforcement. *forehead slap*
John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 1/19/2009 @ 1:15 pmLE = Law Enforcement. When false statements are made by these folks we all lose and the good folks in LE get a bad rap.
voiceofreason2 (f237cf) — 1/19/2009 @ 1:17 pmJoel #24,
You’ve got it backwards. The ones shown to be protecting drug smugglers are Rene Sanchez, Johnny Sutton, and the other BP agents and prosecutors in this case. Ramos and Compean were trying to protect our borders and our children.
nk (9097f8) — 1/19/2009 @ 1:29 pmAs for “giving law enforcement a bad name”, let’s not mix apples with bathwater. Yeah, the shooter of Oscar Grant in Oakland made life a lot more dangerous for every officer there who tries to effect a misdemeanor arrest. But it’s a good thing to have drug smugglers scared that they’ll get a bullet up the ass when they bring their poison over our border.
nk (9097f8) — 1/19/2009 @ 1:34 pmLet’s make a new law:
Anyone found in possession of $10,000 or more (street-value) of an illegal drug can be executed on-site.
That’ll fix ’em.
(Is there a doctor in the house? I need my tongue surgically removed from my cheek)
John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 1/19/2009 @ 1:39 pmI think we got acrimonious enough in past threads on this topic, guys. I think many rational people have opinions that are not going to be reconciled on this one.
SPQR (72771e) — 1/19/2009 @ 1:41 pmJust label smuggling, of whatever kind, a “crime against humanity”!
AD (c9522d) — 1/19/2009 @ 1:59 pmWho could find wrong in trying to protect “humanity”?
After all (snark warning), it’s for the children.
Joel,
As VOR2 said, this isn’t a slap on the wrist. Ramos and Compean have felony records and were locked up (Ramos in isolation) in federal prisons for over 2 years. I’m sure state and federal law enforcement officers learned from this case: Don’t lie, don’t cover up. Commuting these sentences didn’t change that lesson.
Plus, I never said there is no police corruption in Texas. What I said is that there are bigger issues here. Remember the report that Mexico has been classified by the military as a potentially failed state? There are complications that go along with living on the border of a nation like that.
DRJ (345e40) — 1/19/2009 @ 2:00 pmJay Curtis
Sutton said it in an answer under oath to Senator John Cornyn, he also clearly made it known that the sentencing office of the Office of the United States Attorneys in Washington DC are the one’s who put the 10 year gun charge on it. What people forget is there also was the 25 years to life charge of attempted murder that was dropped during the trial. So this myth that the gun charge was there to intimidate them into taking a plea is just another shovel full of hysterical horse hockey in this Hoover dam of hyperbolic rheoric.
I have listened to and actually communicated with Sutton’s staff on very limited occasions – I was facsinated that soo many congressman were lying, actually making stuff up about clandestine briefings with Skinner and a Homeland security alleged vendetta against stopping drugs and illegal immigration.
Why Sutton came out swinging was that first the unions, then the nutjobs and then the rank and file were accusing him and his staff of being criminals, of letting a drug dealer deal drugs while under immunity with their full knowledge and leting him testify and convict those 2.
Read the transcripts, no one with a pulse in west texas and in that court room had any doubt that OAD was a drug dealer and was probably armed.
Then to make matters worse TJ Bonner and World New Daily did a prison stunt that got Ramos beaten… Not really, what happened is that the Federal Bureau of Prisons has a standard operating procedure and with that stunt Ramos was incarcerated in solitary confinement.
Several people have asked me to write a book about it, I was following this since the day after they were arrested – months before it became a cause celeb. It would take a tremendous amount of money to complete a serious work and would sell about 6 copies.
EricPWJohnson (6d4725) — 1/19/2009 @ 2:41 pmEric,
The prosecutor never dropped the attempted murder charges. Instead, the jury returned not guilty verdicts on the charge of assault with intent to commit murder and aiding and abetting as to both Ramos (p 4 at the link) and Compean (p 5 at the link).
DRJ (345e40) — 1/19/2009 @ 2:51 pmDRJ,
Yes but they clearly did not pursue in the questioning the murder aspect. I guess my point is that Kanoff could have easily gotten them the 25 to life if she felt it pursuable during the trial. Remember the US Attorney had mountains of stats on gun use violence etc, they had or could have exposed the emails and radio traffic of this small close knit unit and stretched this trial out for weeks.
And I was trying to address the myths that Sutton
A. Was including the 10 year mandatory to be a vindictive out of control prosecutor
B. Was actually the one who put the charge on the sheet
EricPWJohnson (6d4725) — 1/19/2009 @ 3:00 pmThe prosecutors did pursue the murder charges in questioning — every time they asked if Ramos and Compean intended to kill Aldrete-Davila when they shot at him. Both defendants testified they did intend to kill Aldrete-Davila but even this jury wouldn’t go that far.
As for the enhancement charge, I’m having trouble understanding how the DOJ sentencing division directed the prosecutor how to charge the case. It’s my understanding the sentencing division doesn’t participate in a case until after a guilty verdict or plea bargain. Maybe Sutton did consult with other sources at the DOJ but he brought the charges. Whether he likes it or not, the buck stops with him.
DRJ (345e40) — 1/19/2009 @ 3:13 pmEric,
Also, I don’t think Sutton was vindictive in bringing these charges but he may have felt pressured by the Mexican government and/or the White House.
DRJ (345e40) — 1/19/2009 @ 3:16 pmGeorge Bush the Merciful.
love2008 who will now be known as Emperor7 (0c8c2c) — 1/19/2009 @ 3:23 pm[…] can read more reaction from Michelle Malkin, Patterico, and […]
Justice served as Ramos and Compean are freed « Wellsy’s World (d9a4c0) — 1/19/2009 @ 3:23 pmI have listened to and actually communicated with Sutton’s staff on very limited occasions
I bet you have communicated with his “staff” with slurping noises.
– I was facsinated that soo many congressman were lying, actually making stuff up about clandestine briefings with Skinner
Bare assertion or do you have evidence for this charge?
Why Sutton came out swinging was that first the unions, then the nutjobs and then the rank and file were accusing him and his staff of being criminals, of letting a drug dealer deal drugs while under immunity with their full knowledge and leting him testify and convict those 2.
Of course they let a known drug dealer deal drugs while under immunity. They even gave him a DHS border pass so that he could drive right into the US without having his vehicle checked. Sutton also kept Cipriano Ortiz in business after he was busted with 1000 pounds of dope. Then he still kept Cipriano Ortiz in business several months later after finding another half ton of narcotics at his house. That latter one was the Davila load.
Then to make matters worse TJ Bonner and World New Daily did a prison stunt that got Ramos beaten… Not really, what happened is that the Federal Bureau of Prisons has a standard operating procedure and with that stunt Ramos was incarcerated in solitary confinement.
koo koo….koo koo….
Several people have asked me to write a book about it,
Comment by EricPWJohnson — 1/19/2009 @ 2:41 pm
I hope they don’t give you a pencil. Those things are sharp.
j curtis (542b3f) — 1/19/2009 @ 3:32 pmJ Curtis, your shot-gun approach (or should I say howitzer approach?) at character assassination is abhorrent. It is garbage like this that keeps me up at nights. How on God’s green Earth can you live with yourself with such verbal sewage coming from your heart and exiting your mouth?
I have not, in my couple months here, heard anything so outrageously infuriatingly abhorrent than your #42.
John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 1/19/2009 @ 3:41 pm#32 SPQR
m (20b07f) — 1/19/2009 @ 3:46 pmI think we got acrimonious enough in past threads on this topic, guys. I think many rational people have opinions that are not going to be reconciled on this one.
Maybe. But there isn’t a better hashing out of all of the details on this case anywhere.
Thanks, DJR, for tons of drudge work on this.
Oops. DJR–>DRJ.
m (20b07f) — 1/19/2009 @ 3:47 pm43
character assassination
It was ericpwjohnson who called the congressmen liars, not me. I’m sure you are winding up to really let him have it for such a comment…or maybe not.
j curtis (542b3f) — 1/19/2009 @ 3:48 pmJ Curtis
All you need to do is putin some time and research it.
I understand that most of your post was made from the same set of misinformation that has been swirling about for years in this case.
EricPWJohnson (6d4725) — 1/19/2009 @ 4:08 pmI hate that R & C spent any time in prison. I loathe Sutton. I lost a lot of respect for W.
However, for me, R & C absolutely lied their butts off. It stinks that they, and most other border agents, imo, feel they must do so. Yet, R & C did. If they had been straight forward and “dared” their superiors or the freaking U.S. Attorney to sanction/charge them, I would have personally donated to their defense fund and written letters to officials.
My bottom line is that W should have commuted the full sentences prior to any actual incarceration.
Ed (39e6e8) — 1/19/2009 @ 4:20 pmI understand that most of your post was made from the same set of misinformation that has been swirling about for years in this case.
Comment by EricPWJohnson — 1/19/2009 @ 4:08 pm
Specify a statement of misinformation I made and then show why it is misinformation.
Are you claiming that the prosecutors weren’t aware of any past drug trafficking incidents when they issued Davila a DHS border pass?
Still looking for you to prove your assertion that the congressmen lied. I doubt you will even attempt to justify the smear.
j curtis (542b3f) — 1/19/2009 @ 4:23 pmThat good enough, J Curtis?
John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 1/19/2009 @ 4:29 pmJ Curtis
I’m not rising to the bait… Poe still on his website stil has his “they were just doing their job” mantra when he admitted that they were guilty but the sentence was too harsh.
Thats lying
Curtis I didn’t smear these congressman they did
EricPWJohnson (6d4725) — 1/19/2009 @ 4:34 pmI almost didn’t blockquote that garbage because it was very offensive and degenerate. It disgusts me that the dregs of society think it is acceptable behavior to resort to such cess-pool diatribes as the blockquote I provided.
John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 1/19/2009 @ 4:39 pm50
Do you even know what misinformation is? Try again. I’m willing to stand here and answer to any charge of it, so take advantage of the opportunity and quit with the belly-aching.
j curtis (542b3f) — 1/19/2009 @ 4:40 pmPoe still on his website stil has his “they were just doing their job” mantra when he admitted that they were guilty but the sentence was too harsh.
Thats lying
You said:
actually making stuff up about clandestine briefings with Skinner
What does any of that have to do with clandestine briefings with Skinner?
j curtis (542b3f) — 1/19/2009 @ 4:50 pmmisinformation
mis⋅in⋅form
/ˌmɪsɪnˈfɔrm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [mis-in-fawrm] Show IPA Pronunciation
–verb (used with object)
to give false or misleading information to.
Origin:
1350–1400; ME misenfourmen. See mis- 1 , inform
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
Misinformation
Mis*in`for*ma”tion\, n. Untrue or incorrect information. –Bacon.
Webster’s Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.
information
in⋅for⋅ma⋅tion
/ˌɪnfərˈmeɪʃən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [in-fer-mey-shuhn] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. knowledge communicated or received concerning a particular fact or circumstance; news: information concerning a crime.
2. knowledge gained through study, communication, research, instruction, etc.; factual data: His wealth of general information is amazing.
3. the act or fact of informing.
4. an office, station, service, or employee whose function is to provide information to the public: The ticket seller said to ask information for a timetable.
5. Directory Assistance.
6. Law.
a. an official criminal charge presented, usually by the prosecuting officers of the state, without the interposition of a grand jury.
b. a criminal charge, made by a public official under oath before a magistrate, of an offense punishable summarily.
c. the document containing the depositions of witnesses against one accused of a crime.
7. (in information theory) an indication of the number of possible choices of messages, expressible as the value of some monotonic function of the number of choices, usually the logarithm to the base 2.
8. Computers.
a. important or useful facts obtained as output from a computer by means of processing input data with a program: Using the input data, we have come up with some significant new information.
b. data at any stage of processing (input, output, storage, transmission, etc.).
Origin:
1350–1400; ME: instruction, teaching, a forming of the mind < ML, L: idea, conception. See inform 1 , -ation
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
inference
in·fer·ence (ĭn’fər-əns) Pronunciation Key
n.
1.
1. The act or process of deriving logical conclusions from premises known or assumed to be true.
2. The act of reasoning from factual knowledge or evidence.
3. Something inferred.
4. Usage Problem A hint or suggestion: The editorial contained an inference of foul play in the awarding of the contract. See Usage Note at infer.
2.
1. Something inferred.
2. Usage Problem A hint or suggestion: The editorial contained an inference of foul play in the awarding of the contract. See Usage Note at infer.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
I have provided plenty of information regarding my understanding of misinformation, information and inference for you to understand that your inferences at information were indeed misinformation. Please try again sometime.
John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 1/19/2009 @ 4:59 pm55
I still don’t see how that applies to “koo koo….koo koo…”. I think you are trying to avoid the relevant facts that I mentioned by whining. My facts terrified you. They should terrify everyone who railroaded Ramos and Compean because they will need to answer for it at trial someday.
j curtis (542b3f) — 1/19/2009 @ 5:50 pmI’m surprised that Bush hasn’t pardoned Davila yet. I’ll be watching the news wire for it.
j curtis (542b3f) — 1/19/2009 @ 5:54 pmJust so everyone remembers J Curtis and Jay Curtis are two separate people.
“Sutton said it in an answer under oath to Senator John Cornyn, he also clearly made it known that the sentencing office of the Office of the United States Attorneys in Washington DC are the one’s who put the 10 year gun charge on it.”
If you are answering my question as to how you cam to the conclusion that Sutton was responsible for their sentences being commuted, do you have a link or source document to back this up? What I think you are saying is that Sutton claimed under oath that he suggested the commuting of the sentences to Bush? Where is there a report of this or a transcript so we can all share in Johnny Sutton’s munificence?
Jay Curtis (8f6541) — 1/19/2009 @ 8:08 pmJust so everyone remembers J Curtis and Jay Curtis are two separate people.
Pretty damn peculiar too, since I’m fairly certain that I was posting at this site first. But what the hey, we’ll chalk it up to coincidence.
j curtis (542b3f) — 1/19/2009 @ 8:23 pmI just wish that he would commute Scooter Libby’s sentence, just to count the number of heads that would assplode. Also, I would issue a blanket pardon for anyone even tangentially involved with any program done under the rubric of national defense and/or intelligence gathering, and issue it about 2 minutes before Teh One’s ascension.
JD (403bd4) — 1/19/2009 @ 8:36 pmJD, he already commuted Libby’s sentence, relieving him of any prospect of incarceration prior to his date to report, though he still had to pay a $250K fine – don’t know about any probation.
AD (c9522d) — 1/19/2009 @ 8:41 pmWhy did I not know that?
JD (403bd4) — 1/19/2009 @ 8:48 pmJD:
I do not know why you did not know that.
It was July, 2007.
Hard to believe you missed all the assploding heads…including the Dear Leader O!’s.
EW1(SG) (e27928) — 1/19/2009 @ 8:56 pmNobody ever accused me of being smart. I have the short term memory of a hamster.
JD (403bd4) — 1/19/2009 @ 9:11 pmJD,
You didn’t forget, you just prioritized your brain cells.
DRJ (345e40) — 1/19/2009 @ 9:13 pm#64 JD:
Specieist!
EW1(SG) (e27928) — 1/19/2009 @ 9:20 pmAt least we aren’t talking gerbils, again.
Eric Blair (3e2520) — 1/19/2009 @ 9:22 pmYeah, yeah, yeah. I denounce my rodent elitism.
Eric Blair (3e2520) — 1/19/2009 @ 9:22 pmEric – No it was supposedly the rats that gave the plague to the jihadis in Algeria. But if you want to talk about gerbils, Richard Gere’s head probably exploded when the Dalai Lama said he loved Bush yesterday because of his stance on terrorism. Mr. Lama apparently believes you can’t reason with terrorists because their minds are closed.
How’s that for bringing it together? Seven degrees baby!
Gunga la dunga!
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 1/19/2009 @ 9:26 pmHey, I used to raise rats. But that was to feed them to the Boa I had. (And yes, my daughter and I both used to wear it around our necks.)
John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 1/19/2009 @ 9:27 pmEmperor Penguin (in comment #40) wrote: George Bush the Merciful.
— That’s George Bush the Just
Icy Texan (b7d162) — 1/19/2009 @ 9:27 pmDaley, I hope you are right. I have been waiting for some of our peace loving friends to start lobbing vials of bacteria or viruses around. It gives me nightmares, and I don’t know what can be done about it.
So I hope that they did something profoundly stupid. Sometimes that kind of lesson sticks. Hitler could have used war gas in WWII. He did not, because of his own experiences with mustard gas in WWI.
I didn’t see the Dalai Lama’s comment. But he has had a great deal of experience with regimes that the West treats preferentially despite their despotism (PRC), so perhaps I should not be surprised.
Anything that makes an actor unhappy makes me giggle a little bit. They are just parakeets, for the most part. Who cares what Springsteen thinks about geopolitics? Or Cameron Diaz?
Puh-leeze!
But then, I hasten to denounce my elitism, and rank prejudice against the surgically enhanced prettyfolk.
Eric Blair (3e2520) — 1/19/2009 @ 9:32 pmDon’t you dare claim that was an Emperor Penguin who was talking. Being a fan of Happy Feet, I am offended by that declarative statement.
John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 1/19/2009 @ 9:33 pmHey Icy…why not use the name “Happy Feet” for you know who?
Eric Blair (3e2520) — 1/19/2009 @ 9:33 pmI’m glad Bush commuted the sentences. I’d like to see a full pardon, of course.
George Bush the Just. I like that.
Let’s see what Barry earns. Straight-shooter is probably out.
steve miller (3381bc) — 1/19/2009 @ 9:33 pmJohn, our posts crossed electrons in midstream. Apologies.
Eric Blair (3e2520) — 1/19/2009 @ 9:34 pmFor what it’s worth, when several posters here were predicting (3 or 4 weeks ago) that Bush would let them rot, I stated EXACTLY what he would actually do . . .
. . . and that is exactly what he did.
Oh, ye of little faith.
Icy Texan (from the site of President Bush's homecoming) (b7d162) — 1/19/2009 @ 9:35 pmEric – I thought you wanted to talk about gerbils. That just remined me about the rat plague stories from last night and conjured up images of Richard Gere, which led to the Dalai Lama….
I am in no way implying that the jihadis were doing with the rats what Richard Gere was rumored to have done with the gerbils. That would just be wrong and I would have to denounce myself.
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 1/19/2009 @ 9:38 pmYou’re right, Icy, and I was one of those doubters.
DRJ (345e40) — 1/19/2009 @ 9:39 pmEric – Please leave Richard Gere and TMJ out of this discussion. Thank you, in advance, for your anticipated cooperation.
JD (403bd4) — 1/19/2009 @ 9:39 pmHey Icy…why not use the name “Happy Feet” for you know who?
— Who? Steve Martin? [For anyone that does NOT remember that part of his old standup routine, YES it was 30 years ago & YES I’m old.]
Icy Texan (from the site of President Bush's homecoming) (b7d162) — 1/19/2009 @ 9:40 pmI fell in love with my third grade teacher when she gave me a gerbil.
Icy Texan (from the site of President Bush's homecoming) (b7d162) — 1/19/2009 @ 9:43 pmWell, played, JD. “I am not worthy,” to quote Garth.
Icy, sadly, I remember Steve Martin all too well. “Time is the fire in which we burn,” after all.
If you get a chance, Steve Martin’s autobiography is very much worth your time.
And I won’t touch the line about you, your 3rd grade teacher, and a gerbil. JD would give me the Mother of All Denunciations.
Eric Blair (3e2520) — 1/19/2009 @ 9:49 pm1) I chose “Emperor Penguin” because it rhymes with “Emperor 7”.
2) Would you prefer “the Emperor has no thong”?
Icy Texan (from the site of President Bush's homecoming) (b7d162) — 1/19/2009 @ 9:49 pm“Errorer 7”?
“Empty air 7”?
Don’t forget the Emperor Scorpion, Icy.
Eric Blair (3e2520) — 1/19/2009 @ 9:50 pmSteve Martin should have quit making movies after he made The Jerk.
JD (403bd4) — 1/19/2009 @ 9:50 pmJD, “Parenthood” was a very good movie, I thought.
Steve Martin is a very unusual fellow. When I was a college student, I had the job of picking him up at the airport and driving him to my school for a show.
He was pleasant enough, but told me up front that he didn’t care to crack jokes. He wanted me to tell me about college life, and whatever I did, NOT try to impress him with my “comedy stylings.”
I liked him. Again, his book is very good.
Eric Blair (3e2520) — 1/19/2009 @ 9:55 pmI do enjoy his writing. I have watched The Jerk about 5000 times. Tombstone is the only movie I have watched more.
JD (403bd4) — 1/19/2009 @ 9:58 pmAny of Steve Martin’s books are worth a read. The man is much more than his “The Jerk” screen persona would lead you to believe . . . a wise, clever, and intelligent (in the best sense of the term) humorist.
As for my teacher giving me a gerbil to raise when I was 8 years old, that is a fond childhood memory, and I pre-denounce the fool what makes comparisons between Richard Gere and meself!
[What do we have in common? We’ve both done Cindy Crawford. One for real & one in his special ‘night plays’.]
Icy Texan (from the site of President Bush's homecoming) (b7d162) — 1/19/2009 @ 10:03 pmJD—I think the world of “Tombstone.” Val Kilmer does a great job as Doc Holiday!
Gunfighter: “Why you fighting here, Doc?”
Kilmer: “Wyatt Earp is my friend.”
Gunfighter: “Hell, I got me lots of friends.”
Pause.
Kilmer: “Well I don’t.”
As I say a great film, even if Kurt Russell wore too much eye makeup.
It’s right up there with “Unforgiven” and “The Searchers” in my Western Pantheon. I hope you will let me count “Pale Rider” and “High Plains Drifter,” too.
Eric Blair (3e2520) — 1/19/2009 @ 10:04 pmIcy – You are killing me. Did Richard Gere molest the gerbil, or vice versa?
JD (403bd4) — 1/19/2009 @ 10:05 pmIcy, as I read the beginning of your Cindy Crawford line, I flashed on Jon Lovitz’s character from the old SNL—The Liar.
“That’s what I told my wife….Morgan Fairchild…yeah, that’s the ticket.”
As for your gerbil, I guess what you named the beast becomes important.
Me, I had to keep lizards. Oh well.
Eric Blair (3e2520) — 1/19/2009 @ 10:07 pmAnyone that appreciates Tombstone is a friend of mine. Unless you are a douchenozzle, which you are not.
It appears Johnny Ringo is an educated man. Now I know I hate him.
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
Some of Ringo’s quotes were priceless.
Are you just going to sit there and bleed?
JD (403bd4) — 1/19/2009 @ 10:08 pmI am reminded of those idiots I used to work with. Surely the 100% Dem workforce and 100% Dem mgmt when I wasn’t there had no impact on their anti-black, anti-“zebra”, anti-amish views, but at least 20 of them saw an opossum (possum) stick its head out of a live amish horse’s … uhhh … body cavity. Oh, how those amish were the dregs of society in their views. The views of those who always voted for the “party of inclusion.”
John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 1/19/2009 @ 10:11 pm“Error Prone”?
Icy Texan (from the site of President Bush's homecoming) (b7d162) — 1/19/2009 @ 10:18 pmJeremiah the gerbil (Hey, I was EIGHT!).
Good call on “Pale Rider”; one of Clint’s (nowadays) most underrated films.
Icy Texan (from the site of President Bush's homecoming) (b7d162) — 1/19/2009 @ 10:23 pmPale Rider was a copy of Shane in a different setting. I prefer Shane.
The Gere-Gerbil story is still going around. Maybe that’s why he became a Hindu. Guilt is a powerful emotion. Maybe it was a Buddist.
I still think the Border patrol agents should have had administrative punishment for false reporting and that should have been it. Nobody knew he had been hit (and how do we know that was the occasion?) until the case was brought.
Bush should also pardon LIbby and the fact that he did not pardon these men diminishes him in my estimation. His father did better.
Mike K (2cf494) — 1/19/2009 @ 10:25 pmJD, that was my line when I won a hand of poker. I would gather up the chips, look at my opponent, and say: “You’re no daisy.”
Powers Boothe in that one, too. And an overweight Billy Bob Thorton.
Dr. K., I know what you mean about “Pale Rider” and “Shane,” but I really really liked “High Plains Drifter” and I felt that was more in the mix.
For a fun time, rent and watch “The Eiger Sanction,” with Eastwood playing an art history professor named Hemlock. You have to watch the scene when the female student comes onto him for better grade.
Not PC, but it makes me laugh. No one does feral better than Clint Eastwood in his prime.
“The Eiger Sanction” also has George Kennedy rock climbing (!) and a hysterical (and non-PC) turn by Jack Cassidy.
Yeah, off topic. Sorry about that. I denounce myself.
“A man’s got to know his limitations.”
Eric Blair (3e2520) — 1/19/2009 @ 10:37 pmOkay, my guess is that I just sent out a double post. Sorry folks. I that the original post “didn’t take.”
The wonders of the Internet!
Eric Blair (3e2520) — 1/19/2009 @ 10:41 pmHmm. It looks like my “double post” didn’t appear? So I’ll wait and see. Who knows?
Eric Blair (3e2520) — 1/19/2009 @ 10:42 pmThe Gere-Gerbil story is still going around. Maybe that’s why he became a Hindu.
— Gere believed that the hamster’s (most stories say “hamster”, I think) path to enlightenment ran through his colon.
Icy Texan (from the site of President Bush's homecoming) (b7d162) — 1/19/2009 @ 10:55 pmWhy did “Act Up” take over this thread? What happened?
j curtis (fa93bb) — 1/20/2009 @ 1:04 amI’m sure state and federal law enforcement officers learned from this case: Don’t lie, don’t cover up.
I sure wish I agreed with you; if so, I’ll be very happy. Fortunately or not, that’s a testable assertion; we’ll see.
Joel Rosenberg (677e59) — 1/20/2009 @ 4:39 am1) I chose “Emperor Penguin” because it rhymes with “Emperor 7″.
2) Would you prefer “the Emperor has no thong”?
“Errorer 7″?
“Empty air 7″?
Comment by Icy Texan (from the site of President Bush’s homecoming) — 1/19/2009 @ 9:49 pm
love2008 who will now be known as Emperor7 (0c8c2c) — 1/20/2009 @ 5:54 amThe Emperor forgives you for your blasphemy, Icy Goth. You will not perish for this. The Emperor is merciful and just.