Patterico's Pontifications

1/11/2009

Will Someone Ask Holder If Waterboarding Is Torture?

Filed under: Obama,Terrorism — Patterico @ 7:55 am



The question is prompted by this Instapundit post, in which a Colonel e-mailed Glenn:

Just this week, NPR (Terry Gross?) had some British yak talking about how he hopes during Eric Holder’s confirmation hearing, he is asked whether he thinks waterboarding is torture. The guest went to say that he hopes Holder says “yes,” and that he then goes on to investigate and prosecute everyone who was involved in waterboarding terrorist suspects and who was involved in approving the decision to allow it.

Well, Holder should be asked the question. And if he says “yes” then he should be questioned about whether there are circumstances where it might be excused. And he should be asked whether he plans to pursue prosecutions against people who did it and approved it. If he tries to weasel, he should be asked hypotheticals: “Assuming you had solid evidence that someone had engaged in waterboarding, would you pursue a prosecution?”

If he weasels on that, ask him the same questions about a set of violent federal crimes. “Assuming you had solid evidence that someone had murdered a soldier, knowing that person was a soldier, would you pursue a prosecution?” Etc. If he weasels on those questions, he looks bad; if he weasels only on waterboarding, draw attention to the contrast.

Why should Bush’s nominees be the only people to face such questions?

28 Responses to “Will Someone Ask Holder If Waterboarding Is Torture?”

  1. I see that you’re an optimist, who assumes that Mr Holder will actually make it all the way to confirmation hearings.

    The Dana who'd bet 25¢ against it (556f76)

  2. I look at all this & it seems we are setting ourselves up for another 9/11 type attack. What a bunch of absolute fools.

    Stan Switek (7cfd24)

  3. Waterboarding, a procedure that every one in the Service that goes through SERE escape and evasion training experiences.

    Dan Kauffman (c260a1)

  4. There will be another attack, and it will make 9/11 look like a day at the beach. This is the only conclusion we can draw from the head-in-the-sand willful blindness exhibited by half the country and the idiotic, incoming administration.

    Unfortunately, conservatives only gain during times of attack and crisis. The rest of the time, the whole country is fat, dumb, happy and oblivious. It ain’t lefty madness that protects us from harm.

    Peg C. (48175e)

  5. Dan,
    You made the point I was going to make. He should also be asked if he would seek prosecution of special forces instructors for prepping the home team by waterboarding them.

    While we’re at it, maybe he could be asked about armed incursions into people’s home in the dead of night to “rescue” kids from freedom and send them back to despotism. Will that be SOP? And on domestic terrorism, where will the line be drawn? What is the difference between McVeigh, FALN, Ayers etc.? Inquiring minds should want to know.

    Chris (ce5d67)

  6. Waterboarding is only torture if there is a Republican in the White House and the military experts at the New York Times say it is. Otherwise it is a benevolent and progressive administration providing clean potable water to an underserved demographic.

    Huey (a69128)

  7. Waterboarding is only torture if there is a Republican in the White House and the military experts at the New York Times say it is. Otherwise it is a benevolent and progressive administration providing clean potable water to an undeserved demographic.

    Huey (a69128)

  8. And if he says “yes” then he should be questioned about whether there are circumstances where it might be excused.

    Every time I read something along these lines now, I end up saying “What about the ticking bomb?” the way people say “But what about the children? What will become of the children?” It’s a pure rhetorical ploy at this point, as one of Cheney’s current aides noted in . . . I can’t remember where I saw it, but I remember it because one of Cheney’s current aides said something that made a remarkable amount of sense. Paraphrased, it went:

    “If we’re ever in a situation in which we need to torture someone about the location of a ticking bomb, we’re at the ass-end of a systemic intelligence failure the likes of which we’ve never experienced.”

    That the ticking bomb scenario’s become par for the rhetorical course is an indictment of the intelligence community. Plus, by focusing on the absolute worst case scenario, people end up sounding like bad insurance salesmen:

    “Sure, your policy covers you in the case of flood, fire, and tornado, but you really need is coverage for when a tornado extinguishes the flames gushing from the windows of your flooded house. I mean, consider your children. What will become of your children?”

    SEK (072055)

  9. Waterboarding, a procedure that every one in the Service that goes through SERE escape and evasion training experiences.

    And that protesters do to each other in public.

    Jim Treacher (796deb)

  10. You all know that Eric Holder won’t get asked any tough questions by any Senator. The Democraps don’t have the integrity to, and the Republicans don’t have the spine to.

    PCD (7fe637)

  11. Isn’t that what happens at the beach when you fail to navigate a big curl?

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  12. That the ticking bomb scenario’s become par for the rhetorical course is an indictment of the intelligence community. Plus, by focusing on the absolute worst case scenario, people end up sounding like bad insurance salesmen

    SEK, your analogy is flawed and grossly exaggerated. We are not battling natural disasters that strike randomly.

    We are battling an enemy that will use long-term strategy and careful planning to exploit any opening, any loophole, to strike. That is why worst-case scenarios are used in hypotheticals, because to fail to do so is underestimating the enemy.

    Paul (creator of "Staunch Brayer") (43e430)

  13. And that protesters do to each other in public.

    I’m still waiting for them to be prosecuted — should be an easy case, what with all the photojournalists and videographers recording it. So long as they are not, then, well, it’s not that big of a deal, is it?

    Rob Crawford (b5d1c2)

  14. Just remember the law of unintended consequences.

    Clinton got two AGs bumped over hiring illegal nannies (Kimba Wood or Zoe Baird) and we ended up the Janet “Let’s Burn the Compound To Save The Children” Reno, who also brought in Jamie “Let’s Build Some Walls” Gorelick. We know how that turned out. Sometimes, like every day I consider the WTC is gone, I wonder if we would have done better with Clinton’s first choices.

    Joe (17aeff)

  15. I am no fan of Holder by the way. And yes, he should answer the question on water boarding. Personally, I think it is torture too. I think it is a mistake, but it is a close call on a guy like KSM and it definitely does not shock my conscience.

    The expansion of harsh interrogation (in some cases torture), especially to the DoD under Rumsfeld, hurt our efforts world wide and in Iraq. It was a mistake. A massive propaganda victory for our enemies. Because of that screw up the entire CIA program became public knowledge. Bush and Cheney were hamfisted about this and it blew up in their faces.

    I also recognize the hypocrisy of the left. Clinton engaged in torture too, by sending detainees out to Egypt and Saudi Arabia to be worked on.

    I want an interrogation policy that works.

    Joe (17aeff)

  16. The left are such hypocrites. “Rendition” started under Clinton. When it comes to national security, under the new administration, we are so screwed. The terrorists are already planning their next strike.

    McBane (7cfd24)

  17. Waterboarding: Necessary Torture. If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen! Or don’t play with fire.

    love2008 who will now be known as Emperor7 (0c8c2c)

  18. It is torture. It is also a screening test. The weak ones will crack. The brave ones will be disappointed that they did not in fact die.

    Do we know if we have had any brave ones, yet?

    nk (2a3e35)

  19. I’m still waiting for them to be prosecuted — should be an easy case, what with all the photojournalists and videographers recording it. So long as they are not, then, well, it’s not that big of a deal, is it?

    It’s been explained to me that waterboarding isn’t torture when protesters do it, because they know it’s not for real. It only becomes torture when it’s scary, apparently. I’m not sure how this rubric applies to, say, flaying or the bastinado.

    Jim Treacher (796deb)

  20. Well … if done right it is for real. Even a very small amount of water at the back of the larynx will shut down breathing and even stop the heart. Something to do with the sympathetic nervous system and the vagus nerve. That’s why our torturers are accompanied by resuscitation teams. Sooner or later, one of the idiots *trying this at home* will die.

    nk (2a3e35)

  21. Yeah, that’s going to happen … just like closing Guantanamo Bay.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  22. Comment by SPQR — 1/11/2009 @ 5:36 pm

    Reading that interview is frightening! It does not appear that our next President has any idea of the level of danger that we face with this enemy. Criminal prosecution of Bush-43 officials will be the ultimate escalation of policy disputes into criminality, and could cause an irreparable rift within the body politik, if not outright rebellion. This is a very dangerous road that some which to set out upon.

    AD (f2ee3d)

  23. and another thing…
    Did anyone watch “Meet the Depressed”?
    We thought Hot-Rod had a bad rug,
    did you see that helmet that Maxinne Waters was wearing?

    AD (f2ee3d)

  24. Art imitates life. Season opener of “24” has Bauer before a Senate committee questioning him about his use of illegal torture. Of course he saved American lives and terrorists are people too. Yeah, right. We hear the rationale that if we torture scum we will sink to their level of morality. I’m glad someone does the dirty work.
    McCain was tortured and doesn’t want our enemies tortured? I don’t see how waterboarding is so evil and torture if our own trainees are subjected to it.
    So will Obama turn out to be competent and a Mr. Clean, despite his past experiences of blowing $100 mil or so with Annenberg Challenge money? And having connections with all sorts of rotten, evil, criminal types? I’d like to know just how many “black” leaders are actually clean? Now the lady mayor of Baltimore is being shown as totally corrupt?

    aoibhneas (0c6cfc)

  25. Well … if done right it is for real. Even a very small amount of water at the back of the larynx will shut down breathing and even stop the heart. Something to do with the sympathetic nervous system and the vagus nerve. That’s why our torturers are accompanied by resuscitation teams. Sooner or later, one of the idiots *trying this at home* will die.

    So you’re saying it is torture when protesters do it. Well then, I look forward to their prosecution under the Obama administration.

    Jim Treacher (796deb)

  26. Waterboarding is practice. That’s where the idea came from.

    driver (56cdca)

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