Patterico's Pontifications

I think the team with the higher final score will win, but I’m not certain.

John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 1/8/2009 @ 6:09 pm

The advertisers.

Bleepless (fd64b6) — 1/8/2009 @ 6:13 pm

I don’t care who wins, so long as the Sooners get completely freaking destroyed.

Scott Jacobs (90ff96) — 1/8/2009 @ 6:43 pm

So far, a great game. My money’s on the Gators.

Pablo (99243e) — 1/8/2009 @ 7:15 pm

Interesting enough would be anyone who thought that the game would be scoreless at the quarter, and only 7-7 at the half….

Vegas made a killing on the odd bets on those two…

reff (ea7aa1) — 1/8/2009 @ 7:15 pm

I just wish the trojans could take on the winner.

Mike K (2cf494) — 1/8/2009 @ 7:31 pm

Spoken like someone who knows nothing about football.

Or someone who hates teh Sooner’s head coach, and only wishes to see him utterly embarrassed and disgraced.

Scott Jacobs (90ff96) — 1/8/2009 @ 7:32 pm

Or someone who hates teh Sooner’s head coach, and only wishes to see him utterly embarrassed and disgraced.

Scott, what’s your beef against Bob Stoops?

By the way, check the Eroding Civil Liberties thread, so you can see what you missed…

Paul (creator of "Staunch Brayer") (43e430) — 1/8/2009 @ 7:36 pm

I saw…

And I’m a KSU fan… What more information do you need? 🙂

Scott Jacobs (90ff96) — 1/8/2009 @ 7:42 pm

And I’m a KSU fan… What more information do you need?

Like Stoops was going to get the head coach position while Bill Snyder was there the first time.

Paul (creator of "Staunch Brayer") (43e430) — 1/8/2009 @ 7:49 pm

Northwestern was jobbed out of a New Year’s bowl, and I am bitter. Not watching anything else.

carlitos (34f76e) — 1/8/2009 @ 7:55 pm

Come on Gators!!!!

BLOOD MAKES THE GRASS GROW! KILL KILL KILL!!!

*cough*

Sorry. I’m better now…

Scott Jacobs (90ff96) — 1/8/2009 @ 8:01 pm

Nice last quarter if you are a Gators fan. 😎

Jay Curtis (8f6541) — 1/8/2009 @ 8:49 pm

Florida wins, 24-14.

Who will be #2 in the final poll — Oklahoma, Utah, USC or Texas? My guess is USC.

DRJ (345e40) — 1/8/2009 @ 8:55 pm

The Bowl Championship Series is the biggest fraud in sports. That having been said…

Thom Brennaman, the FOX play-by-play announcer, was nauseatingly worshipful of Tim Tebow. Tebow is a great college QB and has an interesting, even inspirational personal story, but come freakin’ on! When Tebow’s taunting in the waning minutes invoked an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty against Florida, Brennaman said “That may be the first thing he’s ever done wrong!” At any moment, I thought the guy would talk about how a thrill went up his leg when he met him.

L.N. Smithee (b7dc6e) — 1/8/2009 @ 9:14 pm

Until college football can create a playoff format that’s similar to what’s used for college basketball, championship games like this will have a taint of being far too beholden to the media (ie, writers voting for and rating college teams)—-and we all know how objective the MSM is.

Mark (411533) — 1/8/2009 @ 10:00 pm

DRJ (#15): Contractually, the final coaches poll has to have Florida #1 and Oklahoma #2. Mack Brown and Kyle Whittingham can make all the noise they want about voting Texas and Utah #1, but the reality is that if they vote anyone besides UF and OU their vote defaults automatically to #3.

The interesting question is this: How should an AP voter rank their final poll? The AP, as everyone points out, is under no obligation to pick tonight’s winner as their national champion. Should the vote be based upon which team they think played consistently well throughout the course of the season, or simply which team they think is the best team in the country as of today? I don’t think this question has ever been addressed.

Speaking personally, here is the order I would rank teams based upon the totality of their season play:
1. Utah
2. Florida
3. USC
4. Texas
5. Oklahoma

Here is how I would rank them based upon which teams are the best teams as of this particular moment:
1. USC
2. Florida
3. Utah
4. Texas
5. Oklahoma

I love that you post on sports, especially college football.

JVW (bff0a4) — 1/8/2009 @ 10:20 pm

JVW,

I know the contractual rule, which I don’t like but that’s beside the point. I also think Mack saying Texas is #1 is crazy, but that’s beside the point, too. What is the point is how it affects a team like Utah, which has an argument it should be #1. I think the Utah coach should be able to vote his team that way if he wants, but the BCS wants unanimity and that’s that.

However, my question about the second-ranked team was referring to the AP poll … and here’s how it ended up:

Florida
Utah
USC
Texas
Oklahoma
Alabama
TCU
Penn State
Ohio State
Oregon

DRJ (345e40) — 1/8/2009 @ 11:44 pm

JVW, Utah may have won all their games, but they didn’t have nearly the schedule USC or Texas had. Texas basically was one tackle from the big show (though you’re obviously right that USC is the better team).

Utah did well, and is a highlight of what’s wrong with the BCS system, but they aren’t in the top three.

USC, Florida, Texas, OU, Utah, and that’s a gift to Utah.

After the grueling month Texas had, with a narrow loss to a fluky but strong TTU, I still can’t believe OU was ranked over Texas in the late season. Thankfully, I don’t have to agonize too much. Ohio showed us that USC was a much stronger team than Texas.

Joco (4cdfb7) — 1/8/2009 @ 11:50 pm

And what’s stopping USC and UT having a game? It would be hilarious.

Joco (4cdfb7) — 1/8/2009 @ 11:50 pm

Hey, if USC can lose to Oregon State and Florida can lose at home to Mississippi, then I think if you are judging on the overall season performance you would have to vote Utah. Was their overall strength of schedule as tough as Florida or USC? Maybe not, but they did beat Oregon State, TCU, BYU, and Alabama, all of which were ranked. The Utes had just as many chances for an off-weekend as Florida and USC had, but they pulled through each time.

But how about my question: If you were an AP voter would you base your vote on which team played the best throughout the course of the season, or which team was playing the best during the bowl games?

JVW (bff0a4) — 1/9/2009 @ 12:02 am

Interesting that Ohio State loses to Texas, yet moves up a spot in the AP poll (from #10 to #9). That comes at the expense of Texas Tech (previously #7) and Boise State (previously #9). TCU (previously #12) vaulted past the Buckeyes to finish #7. Penn State stayed in their #8 spot.

JVW (bff0a4) — 1/9/2009 @ 12:09 am

JVW, I think the voting should reflect the status of a team at the end of the season. So injuries and the like take effect. that’s how they have to run things up to the end, right (so that bowl games are somewhat sensible)?

Texas Tech is such a flaky team. I love watching them because I am often surprised. Just wish they hadn’t been so good at that last moment of their UT match. Knowing that the BCS would have screwed USC, I think UT might have won this meaningless championship (which I would then revere).

Of course I agree that Utah didn’t have an easy season, and I think it’s very unfair that they won every game and it wasn’t enough.

Joco (4cdfb7) — 1/9/2009 @ 12:25 am

Mark wrote:

Until college football can create a playoff format that’s similar to what’s used for college basketball, championship games like this will have a taint of being far too beholden to the media (ie, writers voting for and rating college teams)—-and we all know how objective the MSM is.

It’s not just writers, it’s coaches too — the same coaches who say they dedicate themselves throughout the season to their own team’s success insist they know enough about every other team in the nation to vote on who’s the best. What a crock.

But the real villains standing in the way of an authentic tournament are the commissioners of the Big Ten Conference (which actually has eleven schools), the Southeastern Conference, and the Pacific 10 conference. The Big Ten and Pac-10 were reluctant to even institute the BCS because it infringed on the Rose Bowl’s cache as “The Grandaddy” of the bowl games. The SEC is very protective of its current reputation as the elite conference, and doesn’t want to risk it by allowing more than one shot at its champion in a playoff.

If you believe that the big money would vanish if their was a playoff, forget it — it’s a myth. The BCS conferences were offered MORE money by the major networks to add an additional play-in game after the biggest major bowl games (Rose, Orange, Sugar, Fiesta) that would make them a de facto playoff system. The conferences refused.

L.N. Smithee (b7dc6e) — 1/9/2009 @ 1:03 am

And another thing — I wanna smack the mouth of anyone who says, “We don’t need a champion. It’s so much fun to argue about it! Heh-heh!”

Idiots!

After the last Super Bowl, how many people were bemoaning the fact that rather than wondering whether the New York Giants could have beaten the until then-perfect New England Patriots, they actually knew because the Giants earned the right to play and defeat them? ZERO! Everyone was talking about what a great game it was — NOBODY was saying, “Aw, shucks, why did they have to spoil a great argument by actually playing each other?”

L.N. Smithee (b7dc6e) — 1/9/2009 @ 1:11 am

We don’t need a champion. It’s so much fun to argue about it! Heh-heh!

Joco (4cdfb7) — 1/9/2009 @ 3:54 am

I’m just sad the season is over. I wanted to see USC kick someone else’s rearend one more time. Maybe the Trojans can play the Vikings. They need another weak nonconference tune up. USC, that is. The Vikings play the Lions twice. That ought to be enough of a soft schedule.

PCD (7fe637) — 1/9/2009 @ 5:52 am

And another thing — I wanna smack the mouth of anyone who says, “We don’t need a champion. It’s so much fun to argue about it! Heh-heh!”

We need a reason for that?

It’s just usually part of my default position… 🙂

Scott Jacobs (a1c284) — 1/9/2009 @ 6:18 am

Utah is #1. The best teams win, period. Only Utah finished undefeated. Only Florida had a harder matchup in their bowl game. Texas barely beat the #10 team, USC won by the same margin over the #8 team (did I fail to mention they both played teams ranked BELOW them?) then Utah won over the #4 team. Everyone can talk about strength of schedule, yet Florida lost to Mississippi. What was Mississippi’s rank?

Zaggs (1369a8) — 1/9/2009 @ 6:21 am

Zaggs, Florida and Texas’s losses were extremely circumstantial. Texas in particular, after a month that wore their team out…

Utah deserves all your grandiose-ish claims anyway. I think it’s the best argument for a playoff system and sincerely would have been thrilled to see Utah ranked #1 in the AP. But they aren’t the best team in the nation. Just saying ‘they never lost’ is basically an admission that you don’t have an argument. Utah simply would not be undefeated had it played Texas’s schedule.

Joco (4cdfb7) — 1/9/2009 @ 6:27 am

If Utah (and Boise State) want to stop being excluded, and USC wants to be able to have a shot at the NCG with a less than perfect record then Utah and Boise need to join the Pac-10 and the new Pac-12 needs to have a conference championship.

The big-10/11 needs to add a member a likewise follow suit.

ThomasD (211bbb) — 1/9/2009 @ 9:22 am

I predict that Florida is going to win! Go SEC!

The Dana whose copy of the Inquirer was printed before the game ended. (3e4784) — 1/9/2009 @ 10:58 am

I see nobody posted anything about the game itself, so I’ll give it a shot.

I think Stoops and his staff have shown again they’re not up to play calling the big games. The four straight runs that failed to get the ball in the endzone in the first half are exhibit A. Not one play action pass in the sequence. You’ve got the Heisman trophy winner at QB and they take the ball out of his hands. You think Florida or USC does that in that situation?

They didn’t call much play action all night. I kept expecting it and they weren’t doing it. The second TD pass was on play action – I think they finally figured it out by then.

People are criticizing Bradford. I thought he played pretty well. His passes were pretty consistently on target. The second interception could have been caught by the intended receiver and probably should have been. The OU receivers didn’t play all that well. There was also a failure to make the catch on a long sideline pass. It was a tough catch but he had his hands on it. Great teams make those in these games. I can’t be too critical of the first interception. He was trying to make something happen with time about to run out before the end of the half.

Gerald A (adb85a) — 1/9/2009 @ 11:28 am

OU lost, and I blame the coach. First, he went for it on 4th and goal when the score was tied. That’s a major blunder. It’s not wise to decline a field goal when it would give your team the lead. Sure, the grass is greener on the other side of the goal line, everyone would prefer 7 points, but coaches get paid to make the right decision, not the dumb one.

Next, Stoops took his last time-out with only a few seconds left on the clock. Consequently, the Gators knew the next play had to be a pass. There would not be enough time to try a running play and then get the kicking team on the field to try for 3 points. So, the Gator defense was waiting for the pass they knew was coming. It was bobbled and intercepted. OU came up enpty, the team was demoralized, and the Gators had the momentum.

These two coaching mistakes were major factors in OU’s loss, and I say that as a Gator fan. OU may have lost anyway, but Florida had an easier time of it with OU’s coaching staff helping out at important points in the game.

Ropelight (d40bc3) — 1/9/2009 @ 11:33 am

Gerald – I concur, in part. Oklahoma dominated the Gators for the first half, and that 4 runs off tackle sequence was head-scratching, to say the least. Gresham was unstoppable, and I could not believe that they did not go to him at the goaline. Even worse, in my humble opinion, was the fact that Oklahoma appeared to almost completely abandon the aggressive blitzing defense that they played so well in the first half, giving that QB the chance to throw, and make plays with his feet.

JD (085a0e) — 1/9/2009 @ 11:35 am

, if USC can lose to Oregon State and Florida can lose at home to Mississippi

Amen, JVW. The idea that this is anything other than a “who is playing best right now, and is most popular with the media” championship is laughable.

Florida and Texas’s losses were extremely circumstantial

I call bullshit. Florida lost AT HOME. Texas lost to Texas Tech, who is apparently now some fluke, but was one of the hottest teams in the country until Oklahoma bitch slapped them. Texas Tech was in a string of game – Texas, Oklahoma State, and Oklahoma that was every bit as tough as what Texas was going through. Texas and USC could have ended this argument a long time ago, by not getting beaten by Texas Tech and Oregon State.

Utah simply would not be undefeated had it played Texas’s schedule.

If, if, if your aunt had nuts she would be your uncle. Unfortunately for Texas, not only could Utah not go undefeated with Texas’ schedule, neither could the Longhorns. I like Texas, but after squeaking by Ohio State, who was consistently way over-rated all year, the idea that they could lay claim to being the best team in the country is laughable.

JD (085a0e) — 1/9/2009 @ 11:47 am

JD, I didn’t claim Texas was the best team in the nation. You should get some reading glasses.

I hear smoking something leads to both glaucoma and thinking Utah is a better team than Texas.

Utah would not be undefeated if they had that month of games that Texas had. I would bet my life on it, but yeah, that’s speculation. People need rest… the schedule was pretty stupid, and Texas only lost the last game of that series, and only barely so, and to a team that is either amazing or terrible but was amazing that night.

Oh well… football is really popular, which means a lot of people who have no idea what they are talking about will bring their opinions and be hostile that anyone would disagree with really stupid points. No biggie. I’m happy to pretend Utah is better than #6 or #5 if it helps get a playoff system. Hell, Utah is the best team in the NFL, too!

Joco (4cdfb7) — 1/9/2009 @ 12:11 pm

Joco – Sorry to lump you in with that group of people. My bad.

In a similar vein, I do not recall opining that Utah was better than Texas.

JD (085a0e) — 1/9/2009 @ 12:19 pm

Should have been Florida vs. USC. The Big 12 is as over-rated as the Big 10. Texas, Texas Tech and Oklahoma all wracked up big offensive stats against weak defenses. Against real defenses, every one of them played like a good but not great football team. They were one defensive miscue from going 0-3 in the Bowls.

Utah? Sorry. You’re going to have to start playing in a real conference first. They played a great season and should be ranked top 10, but not top 5. Undefeated means a lot less in college–strength of schedule counts bunches.

But Florida – USC? I don’t see how anyone could argue about the winner of that gamne being the best. Too bad it didn’t happen.

tim maguire (72f509) — 1/9/2009 @ 1:02 pm

tim,

I agree the Big 12 was too pass-happy and weak on defense this year, but Texas was one tackle short of making the final game and, like it or not, Utah was undefeated. You can ignore that because you don’t like their conferences but not everyone shares that bias. I think the Mountain West is consistently underrated, and last year the Big 12 was strong and the Pac-10 was weak.

I’m certainly open to BCS criticism and to tweaking the BCS system, but the point was to prevent this kind of emotional, subjective debate at the end of the season. Overall, I think that’s a good thing.

DRJ (345e40) — 1/9/2009 @ 1:17 pm

Plus, OU, Okla State, and Texas Tech lost but Texas, Kansas, Missouri and Nebraska won. That’s not a terrible bowl record for the Big 12. And OU is consistently weak in the post-season. There are as many theories why as there are football fans — I think it’s coaching — but it’s pretty clearly a fact at this point. Thus, I don’t think OU’s loss tells us as much about the Big 12 as it does about OU.

DRJ (345e40) — 1/9/2009 @ 1:21 pm

Because I just can’t let a fun college football debate die. . .

I like the Longhorns and I once spent a glorious Saturday afternoon at Darrel K. Royal/Memorial Stadium which has to rank as one of the best college football weekends in the country. Having said that, though, before we go claiming that Texas had a substantially more difficult schedule than Utah, let’s look at both teams’ non-conference opponents this year. Here they are, followed by their final record and AP ranking:

Texas: Florida Atlantic (7-6, NR), Texas El-Paso (5-7, NR), Rice (10-3, NR), Arkansas (5-7, NR).

Utah: Michigan (3-9, NR), Utah State (3-9, NR), Weber State (10-4, Div 1-AA), Oregon State (9-4, #18).

There are some similarities there. Both teams played non-conference games against instate opponents, which is typical for public universities who have to be accountable to the politicians. Both teams had games against opponents (Arkansas and Michigan) who, when scheduled, were probably assumed to be top-flight teams, but who turned out to be disappointing. That leaves UT playing Florida Atlantic and Utah playing Oregon State. It is clear which of those two wins was more impressive.

I would certainly agree that the Big 12 was a higher-level of competition than the Mountain West Conference, but I think the bowls demonstrated that the level was not substantially higher. Considering that Utah went 8-0 in their conference while Texas was only 7-1, I would tend to believe that Utah is the better team. I am not sure why so many coaches voted Texas ahead of Utah, except for the general bias towards BCS programs and the fact that 38 of the 61 coaches who vote in the poll come from BCS conferences.

And yeah, the OU offensive play-calling was horrid, and I can’t for the life of me figure out why the defense didn’t flood the linebackers and safeties into the box every time Percy Harvin lined up as QB in the Wildcat formation. Harvin threw exactly zero passes all year.

JVW (bff0a4) — 1/9/2009 @ 3:24 pm

Sports writers and coaches choose. And they are limited on who they can choose from. Do we live in a land of princes overseen by kings?

Maybe we should have the people vote too. Ya, they can text thier votes in for $5 each, limited to three a day between the end of the BCS and the start of the Super Bowl. Funds go to support the college players retirement fund.

And we can add the National Champs to the list for the Oscars. Hollywood’s full of princes and princesses too.

Then Peloski and Reid can form cacuses amoung the blessed 535 to confirm WHO IS THE ONE.

BCS? National Champs? In Football? Get back to me when its real.

Gajim (e39b35) — 1/9/2009 @ 9:58 pm

1/8/2009

#1 OU vs #2 Florida (Updated: Florida #1)

43 Responses to “#1 OU vs #2 Florida (Updated: Florida #1)”

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