Obama’s First Acts (Updated)
[Guest post by DRJ]
The Washington Post reports a team of Obama advisers have been working for months to identify executive orders an Obama Administration could immediately implement to reverse President Bush’s policies in several areas, including abortion. According to Cecile Richards, the president of Planned Parenthood Federation of America:
“We have been communicating with his transition staff” almost daily, Richards said. “We expect to see a real change.”
In addition, Obama has said he plans to “quickly reverse the Bush administration’s decision last December to deny California the authority to regulate carbon dioxide emissions from automobiles.” California sought to mandate fuel economy standards of 36 mpg by 2016.
The transition team is also working on sweeping new orders regarding stem cell research, the environment and greenhouse gas emissions, climate change (assuring that climate change gets “lots of attention in the White House”), food and drug regulations, and immigration enforcement.
GOP voters and politicians will be upset when the Obama Administration changes President Bush’s policies on stem cells, abortion, and other hot-button social issues but that’s the downside of losing an election. However, it’s the environmental, climate change, and greenhouse gas policies that will impact us the most … and primarily in our wallets. Specifically, the Obama Administration will almost certainly implement rules that support cap-and-trade policies and possibly a carbon tax that I expect Congress will pass in a revised version of the Boxer-Lieberman-Warner bill.
UPDATE: Jules Crittenden analyzes Obama’s plans in more detail.
— DRJ
NOTE to Rick Ballard:
I agree with and appreciate your advice regarding links but I’ve decided to add them anyway. It’s too hard for readers to cut-and-paste if they want to see the source material, and my first obligation is to readers.
DRJ (cb68f2) — 11/9/2008 @ 8:58 amHoffnung auf Veranderung!
Official Internet Data Office (c1dfe4) — 11/9/2008 @ 9:05 amAp also mentioned Bush’s executive orders on oil and gas drilling. Ok, the economy is contracting and oil use is down. Want to bet any hint of reversal of Bush oil and gas policy would mean increased prices? O! says we need to emulate the Euroweenies. Can you say whipsaw? People are already second guessing dumping their aircraft carrier SUVs. My local monopoly (FPL) ripoff wants an increase for INCREASED fuel costs despite the more recent drop. They’re looking for an overall price increases of around 16% in next six months. Thank you assclowns for giving us the great Null.
madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 11/9/2008 @ 9:10 amWe are &%$*ed! He wants to bankrupt coal companies. Cap and trade will = pay, pay, pay for all of us masses. Liberal Fascism.
J. Raymond Wright (0440ef) — 11/9/2008 @ 9:14 amHe is a moderate, if not conservative. Truly, he is.
JD (831256) — 11/9/2008 @ 9:20 amWelcome to 1932-33 all over again. I’m gonna have fun pointing and laughing at all the unemployed yelling, “Is this the CHANGE you HOPED for?! You had a job, now you don’t. You had money, now you don’t. You had an economy, now you don’t. You had national security, now you don’t. Are all your Socialist pals gonna help out? Remember who warned you – Conservatives; and who lied to you – everyone else.”
Joe C. (835efb) — 11/9/2008 @ 9:28 amWhereas McCain was against cap and trade? Oh, wait…
No surprise that Republican turnout dipped this year. Wonder if the GOP gets the message? I’m thinking no.
Alan (551a6d) — 11/9/2008 @ 9:38 amSomeone, who knows what they’re doing and has big bucks, needs to file a lawsuit at the appropriate court to challenge laws based on the discredited theory of human caused global warming, especially now that we may be going into a cooling cycle.
Gary Ogletree (df6949) — 11/9/2008 @ 10:50 amIt’s amazing that the entire media and the right wing money grumbling fear mongering whores have declared that Obama’s mandate is to move to the middle, move slowly and except the hell hole the Bush/Cheney Non-cons dragged this country into.
President Obama said
1. We will save $10 BILLION a month by ending the funding of the Iraq War.
2. Teachers will get raises
3. That all Americans will have health care
4. That Detroit will make the most energy efficient cars
5. That the Government will create jobs through huge national construction projects and by going green.
6. AND THAT AMERICANS WILL GET A ANOTHER STIMULUS CHECK and $1,200 tax cut starting next year.
Obama ran on CHANGE, deal with it!
Mark (b21618) — 11/9/2008 @ 10:50 amOh yeah and that the Ultra rich Corporations will have to start paying the $300 BILLION in taxes that they should have been paying.
Mark (b21618) — 11/9/2008 @ 10:53 amDECEMBER 21st, 2012
Bill Priff (15e262) — 11/9/2008 @ 10:58 amIn addition, Obama has said he plans to “quickly reverse the Bush administration’s decision last December to deny California the authority to regulate carbon dioxide emissions from automobiles.” California sought to mandate fuel economy standards of 36 mpg by 2016.
That will be the coupe de grace to the US auto industry.
Richard (31ed22) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:00 am“1. We will save $10 BILLION a month by ending the funding of the Iraq War.”
Have that cast in bronze and use it as a paperweight. When you finally figure out how badly you’ve been duped by the blowhard, have someone hit you with the paperweight until clarity is achieved.
Sucker.
Rick Ballard (e3e91f) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:03 amMy 1997 Chevy Cavilier gets better mpg than my 2006 Honda Civic (both over 32 mpg). I don’t think it will be hard for the big three to quit being greedy ($ from selling the huge SUVs) and get with the program. PS 2009 Chevy Silvarado and Fords F150 claim to get 20 ang 21 mpg.
Mark (b21618) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:07 amOh yeah and that the Ultra rich Corporations will have to start paying the $300 BILLION in taxes that they should have been paying.
You’re doing a parody, right? If not, please provide objective (read: real) links.
Dmac (e30284) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:09 amMark, Obama ran on talking about change. He talked and talked and talked about a lot of things, but as we know, and as he proved, talk is cheap, and so are your lunatic pronouncements.
Obama may be President Elect, but the adults are still in charge in the good ol’ USA, and don’t you forget it.
Ropelight (5b609a) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:10 amI don’t think it will be hard for the big three to quit being greedy
Really? Then please provide examples of how this amazing transformation will take place, once they take out their “greedy” behavior.
Dmac (e30284) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:11 amAs for the illegal invasion of Iraq. Just ask yourself why did it ONLY cost $4 BILLION a month when we were firing missiles and driving tanks across Iraq and now it costs $10-$12 BILLION a month when all we do is sent guys out on patrol?????
The Iraq Invasion is nothing more than a $$$$ CASH COW for Cheney’s Halliburton (Brown & Ruth). He’s robbing us and because of the election the Democrats didn’t have the guts to stop it.
PS Halliburton’s HQ is now a PO Box in the Caribbean so it doesn’t have to pay taxes. Wake up the Neo-Cons are nothing but greedy crooks that don’t care at all about America. They need to go to jail as war profiteers!
Mark (b21618) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:15 amSo Baracky is going to continue to spend this money that is being borrowed? It is not saving if you continue to spend it.
I know this ship has long since sailed, but when did the Federal government start paying teachers salaries?
Because the Constitutional scholar Baracky believes that healthcare is a Right. Prolly something those evil rich are going to buy for others, kind of like mortgages and gasoline.
So government is going to control the outcome of private sector industry?
President Bush was evil when he grew the size of government.
He already won. Why buy more votes?
JD (831256) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:15 amSo…all those Republicans and conservatives who thought that McCain was awful, and no different from Obama?
Strap in.
Your pursuit of perfection will give us—-so I suspect—things so much worse than McCain (at least from a Republican and conservative point of view).
Good job, folks!
Eric Blair (a723e0) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:15 amMark — 11/9/2008 @ 10:50 am:
Mark — 11/9/2008 @ 10:53 am:
Sorry to give you the bad news, Mark, but it’s only been 4 days and Obama has already put Hope and Change on Hold.
DRJ (cb68f2) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:17 amDRJ – Carbon dioxide is not a pollutant. There is no need to regulate it. That California/EPA scrap is a load of horse dung. I don’t believe many of the models upon which the IPCC based its most recent political conclusions remain undebunked. The amount of outright fraud, data manipulation, omission and secrecy to produce acceptable alarmist AGW conclusions has been nothing short of amazing. If the people involved were announcing their results as part of press releases from private sector companies they would be in jail for stock manipulation at this point.
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:19 amI could smell that Chimpy McHitlerBurton coming from a mile away.
JD (831256) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:19 amIf it’s “greedy” you want, then sit down to a big steamin’ hot cup of TAXATION, the greediest dogma ever spawned by the mind of evil personified.
Ropelight (5b609a) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:19 amThey need to go to jail as war profiteers!
And you need to go to jail for extreme ignorance and adherence to an alternate reality.
Eric, did you look at the latest postings from TNJ in the earlier thread (regarding the nutbag teacher), where it details a career of teaching our nation’s children in the sciences? Truly frightening.
Dmac (e30284) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:19 amObama ran on CHANGE, deal with it!
Naivete has doomed us for 4 at least years.
Dana (79a78b) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:21 amJD, that was a great post.
I was reminded of Bill Ayres dealing with a reporter recently, who kept asking him questions. It’s over at Volokh, and the hysterical video was on O’Reilly’s show.
Hmm. Bill Ayres, using The Man to protect himself? See, it’s not hypocrisy for the son of a rich man, playing communist (his term, not mine) and revolutionary, calling the police on someone else!
Troof to Powder!
The next few years will be interesting.
Remember everyone: dissent is the highest form of patriotism.
Except when it is racist.
Take it away, JD!
Eric Blair (a723e0) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:21 amI think Mark is definitely on a wake and bake plan, IYKWIMAITTYD.
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:24 amDmac, always good to hear from you. I don’t know how to contact you other than this blog, though.
Anyway, welcome to the Ivory Tower. That teacher is the norm, sad to say. Remember the “Pledge of Allegiance to the Planet” that my son’s second grade teacher was pushing last year?
And Mike LaRoche’s blog quotes a recent experience of mine where I teach.
Roger Kimball has a new edition of “Tenured Radicals” out; well worth your time.
Eric Blair (a723e0) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:24 amDma – I weep for its students.
JD (831256) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:25 amPlease, Republicans created the largest government spending of all time! Bush/Cheney eclipsed what Ronald Regan did. They cleaned out our Social Security (TRILLIONS), stole the 3 TRILLION surplus created under Clinton. The REPUBLICANS ran up the nation debt from 5 to now over $10 TRILLION! And they need another $700 BILLILON for wall street (Bush and Cheney are laughing all the way to the bank).
They is no such animal as a fiscal Republicans (total oxymoron). Look, to hear the current Neo-Con administration say they just made mistakes is a joke. These people aren’t stupid. They accomplished everything they wanted to accomplish (except for privitising Social Security).
I guess its OK for Republicans look the other way and now force our grand children can pay back everything the Republican Neo-Cons stole in just 8 years. Amazing truly amazing.
Mark (b21618) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:27 amGovernment health care will ruin the high quality of our health care as we know it.
CO2 claptrap will run the cost of everything sky high and for no damn good reason.
Making concrete produces CO2 in equal amounts, so how the government proposes to curb CO2 while building huge construction projects will be interesting to watch.
Not everyone in America can drive a subcompact or a micro- car, some of us need trucks for work and others have concerns about our families safety thus the law of larger vehicles.
ML (14488c) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:27 amThe only hope I see, JD, is that college kids only march in lock step with one another. They do rebel against authority figures. So as the hippie-dippie types have kids, those kids will rebel.
I always tell my students to question all arguments from authority, including my own. Evidence. Philosophy. Consistency.
Eric Blair (a723e0) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:27 amWe’ll all be riding bicycles, rice will be our main staple, and we’ll be living three families per three-bedroom apartment. Except for the Party Members of course. They will have chauffeur-driven limousines, own several homes, and be dining out with marinated dog penis as a delicacy.
And this has to be the most vivid nightmare I have ever had. Five days after the election everybody and everything tells me Obama has won. I hope I wake up soon. And, I swear, no more pepperoni pizza before bedtime.
nk (95bfab) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:32 amUnder the Bush/Cheney Administration it bacame OK to award NO BID Contracts to their friends and that applied to everything from war to national emergencies (like hurricane Katrina). Bush/Cheney replaced true civil servants with corrupt cronies and republican supports. They abused their power and should be brought to court for the crimes they have committed.
But I understand, in order to get along lets all just look the other way and let they crooks walk away free and clear.
Mark (b21618) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:35 amDmac, I checked out the posts you referred to from “tmj” (which is far funnier than “tnj”). Let me see if I get this. This character attacks other people,including you, for poor use of grammar, and then writes:
“I are a teacher” comes to mind, as I read that bit. I believe tmj meant “…who are mostly seniors...”).
I’m afraid that you can find just as much fluffy-headedness among science faculty as comparative sociologists.
But I will admit that the liberal arts are getting odd, and will get odder. Go look up (I can’t post links well here) the “Critical Theory and Social Justice” major (again, that is a major) at Occidental College in Los Angeles. Look at the course descriptions.
Oh. My. Lanta, to quote Vivian Louise.
There will be a LOT more of this in the coming years. And guess where our new President spent two years of his college career (admitting, blowing weed and holding forth).
Kimball’s book (and his new one to be released soon) have some ideas about what we can do about this nonsense.
Eric Blair (a723e0) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:38 amWOW our great health care system is only great for people who don’t get sick. Americans pay the most! Let me repeat for the slow readers, the MOST $$$$ for health care and rank near the bottom of Industrial Countries for healthcare.
Mark (b21618) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:39 am“Bush/Cheney replaced true civil servants”
Mark – What is a “true” civil servant? Statements such as the above require specific examples dood.
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:39 amMark,
Would you care to look into Obama’s patrons? They actually are in court or in prison or soon to be.
nk (95bfab) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:40 amEric – Personally, I’m enjoying the emerging Fat Studies major. I guess Womens Studies is just not big enough for ugly lesbians.
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:43 amhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/30/AR2008103004749.html?hpid=topnews
voiceofreason2 (590c85) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:45 amHas some information on how Bush’s team has been putting some significant obstacles in the way of at least some of the plans Obama has in mind.
Good read if interested and sorry about the link feature — doesn’t work from browser at work.
John McCain was the candidate that was going to raise taxes. He was going to tax companies that provided health care for it’s employees (so they would stop providing healthcare coverage) then give you $5,000 for health care (higher tax bracket for you) and let you try to go out and get a policy from companies hiding in the state with the least regulations.
I guess that was the candidate and plan I should have voted for because it sounds like another winner from the Republicans!
Mark (b21618) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:46 amPlease, Republicans created the largest government spending of all time! Bush/Cheney eclipsed what Ronald Re[a]gan did.
And Obama will make Bush look like a miser:
http://change.gov/americaserves/
That’s expansion of two huge federal bureaucracies, creation of four new huge federal bureaucracies and a $40-an-hour giveaway to college students.
Change!
Paul (creator of "Staunch Brayer") (f4c545) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:47 amWOW our great health care system is only great for people who don’t get sick. Americans pay the most! Let me repeat for the slow readers, the MOST $$$$ for health care and rank near the bottom of Industrial Countries for healthcare.
At least we don’t die in line waiting for it.
Paul (creator of "Staunch Brayer") (f4c545) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:49 amDaleyrocks, where I used to teach, a student tried to design his own major combining political science and history. He wanted to call it “The Reagan Presidency.”
If that sounds too narrow, you haven’t seen the..ah…finely divided majors I have seen in the past. But the objection wasn’t the narrowness. It was the content, naturally.
I managed to get the faculty oversight committee to allow him to call it: “Media and Modern Presidential Politics.”
Seriously, though, check out those CTSJ courser titles. I particularly like “Stupidity” and “The Phallus.” Different courses.
Eric Blair (a723e0) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:50 amMark didn’t really want any jobs anyway.
The energy taxation that “cap and trade” represents will raise unemployment by a million workers or more just by itself.
SPQR (26be8b) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:50 amTrue civil servant would be someone preferably with a degree that would help them in their government job unlike BROWNIE who judged equestrian horses and again for the slow thinking Republicans somehow thought that qualified BROWNIE to run FEMA????
It was because BROWNIE was a big $$$$ supporter of the Republicans that he was appointed.
Mark (b21618) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:53 amGood job BROWNIE good job!
You might tell this to the VA or to Taiwan who just modeled their national single payer healthcare system after Medicare.
I was in the military, and I would much rather take my chances with government healthcare than care based exclusively on the logo on an insurance card or the size of your wallet.
You take the guy who wants to see your credit card before you the clot buster, I want the people controlling it.
Bobby (2e9cbd) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:55 amMark, you remain pretty silly. Political appointees don’t make technical decisions, the career staff do.
Or did you think that Les Aspin knew how to command an armored brigade? Or that Dan Glickman knew how to inspect a meat packing plant?
SPQR (26be8b) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:55 amBobby, yep, we need healthcare like Britain gets … where if the government decides you are too old to get any benefit from treatment, you don’t get treated.
SPQR (26be8b) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:57 amWhy do you think Republicans always nominate dumb guys (Regan, Quail, W, McCain, Palin, Joe not a plumber in 2010)?
They need a puppet so they can steal! Please name 1 thing (other than the fall of the USSR that the Republicans have ever done to help improve this country)?
Mark (b21618) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:57 amMark – Brownie is one person. We need examples – plural.
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:57 amDennis Miller had this great quote the other day, and it was from the late Paul Tsongas, about his own Democratic party.
I chased it down:
Of course, that kind of Democrat doesn’t seem to do well these days. Ask Barney Frank.
Eric Blair (a723e0) — 11/9/2008 @ 11:59 amMark, some friendly advice: switch to decaf.
And Eric, this one’s for you. 🙂
qdpsteve (c1be57) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:02 pmMark, the Republicans nominate dumb guys? You really need to clue up. None of the people you list are “dumb”. Meanwhile, you’ve not noticed that a village idiot will be vice president in January.
SPQR (26be8b) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:02 pmA bit of point, but it does deal with Obama and his being president.
As far as I’m aware, Obama’s claim to national fame first happened when he gave a speech at the 2004 Democrat National Convention, is that correct? Who was behind getting a two term state senator from Illinois a place on the stage, what was the influence?
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:03 pm“True civil servant would be someone preferably with a degree that would help them in their government job unlike BROWNIE who judged equestrian horses and again for the slow thinking Republicans somehow thought that qualified BROWNIE to run FEMA????”
Mark – By your example, why the hell is someone who has never managed anything or had any significant bipartisan achivement, or even partisan achvievements, such as Obama, even qualified to serve as President? It doesn’t make much sense does it?
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:03 pmThe latest Trollish Type writes, hyperbolically:
Umm. Pass the Civil Rights Act?
Did you forget Lincoln’s accomplishments? Oh, but you will claim you don’t mean THOSE Republicans. But if you do that, I won’t let you count any Democratic accomplishment post 1980. So then what do you have?
Other people, chime in.
This is yet more proof that history is not taught in schools. Feelings, not facts, seem to be the meme in play.
Eric Blair (a723e0) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:04 pmYou might tell this to the VA or to Taiwan who just modeled their national single payer healthcare system after Medicare.
The VA is a perfect illustration of the mess waiting for us with single payer health care.
Bobby, yep, we need healthcare like Britain gets … where if the government decides you are too old to get any benefit from treatment, you don’t get treated.
SPQR, don’t forget if they determine the treatment is too expensive, you don’t get treated.
Paul (creator of "Staunch Brayer") (f4c545) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:05 pmHow much do you pay right now for healthcare? It costs Americans $500, $600, $700 a month to have just 1 child added to their plan!
Yeah that sounds like a great health care system we have. I would love to pay more than my house payment for healthcare that I use maybe once a year. Your right America really does have the best health care plan??? That’s why even city governments crossed the border into Canada to by the same drugs and a fraction of the cost than over here.
You must be right. What is wrong with a system like that.
Speaking of silly. THE REASON WHY MOST PEOPLE IN AMERICA GO BANKRUPT IS BECAUSE OF MEDICAL BILLS THAT THEIR GREAT HEALTH PLAN DIDN’T COVER!
Are we done blogging about the horrible health care we have in this country? Lets agree that Americans should pay $600+ every month for health care for just 1 child (does this go up every year?). Your right?
Mark (b21618) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:06 pmAnd it’s official… Mark officially wins the Nobel Prize for strawman-building in the comment section of a center-right blog in 2008. Let’s hear it for Mark! 😉
qdpsteve (c1be57) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:08 pmHow much do you pay right now for healthcare? It costs Americans $500, $600, $700 a month to have just 1 child added to their plan!
Funny thing: Americans don’t die in line waiting for it.
Paul (creator of "Staunch Brayer") (f4c545) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:08 pmHey, Q…
Check your e-mail, please. Good to hear from you!
Eric Blair (a723e0) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:09 pmDmac, if you’re out there, I think it’s time to dust off those Barry Manilow classics again…
qdpsteve (c1be57) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:09 pmI don’t know how to contact you other than this blog, though.
Eric, you can ask Bradley over at his place for my e – mail, at either the old site or the one he keeps at his newspaper. I don’t go to the old place much anymore, for obvious reasons.
Dmac (e30284) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:10 pmSpeaking of the VA which great American President closed more VA hospitals under his watch. That would be W. I guess it’s hard to go to the hospital when they keep closing. Vets should be forced to move to the cities that still have a VA hospital.
Your right again. Americans should be allowed to live anywhere in America, except for Vets of course.
Mark (b21618) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:10 pmLook at you kicking and screaming that all of us are going to get affordable healthcare. American’s woke up and your side lost! DEAL WITH IT!
Mark (b21618) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:12 pmTHE REASON WHY MOST PEOPLE IN AMERICA GO BANKRUPT IS BECAUSE OF MEDICAL BILLS THAT THEIR GREAT HEALTH PLAN DIDN’T COVER!
MARK DON’T YOU REALIZE THAT PEOPLE WHO POST THEIR COMMENTS PRIMARLY VIA THE BOLD FORMAT ARE IMMEDIATELY IDENTIFIED AS TROLLS. NOW TAKE YOUR FOIL HAT OFF YOU’RE SCARING THE CHILDREN AND PLEASE KEEP YOUR SHIRT ON YOU’RE SCARING THE CAT!
Dmac (e30284) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:13 pmSpeaking of the VA which great American President closed more VA hospitals under his watch. That would be W.
Got a link to back up that assertion?
Paul (creator of "Staunch Brayer") (f4c545) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:13 pmLook at you kicking and screaming that all of us are going to get affordable healthcare.
It will be affordable because it will be rationed and people will die in line waiting for it.
Paul (creator of "Staunch Brayer") (f4c545) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:16 pmOnce the smoke an mirrors are gone, we’ll see the reality of “CHANGE”.
Change #1 Get the Troops from Iraq back home….
right into Afghanistan
So much for saving the Billions. Just tax that 5% even more….
Change #2 Raise the taxes on those making $250K/$200k/$150K or whatever it WILL BE…
BREAKING NEWS !!!!!!!
Those in that are making $250K/$200k/$150K or whatever it is aren’t spending money either.
Even the high end stores are hurting. Big dollar items aren’t selling. NO ONE is buying Real estate foe any price. If they’re not spending, that means ALL sales taxes are less, meaning less income for federal, state and local governments, means cutbacks or HIGHER taxes…..for EVERYONE.
Change #3 95% get a tax break.
Unless that tax break is about $3650.00 or $10.00 a day. its’ worthless.
I do not believe that the “average” of what is being “Proclaimed” would be able to buy you one (1) McDonald’s Value mean a week……Some break……..
If Obama is going to go line-by-line and cut programs that aren’t working, does that include ALL of the PORK programs by both parties?
If he cut the Party Pork programs…he bites the hands that fed him…..
Change #4 Take the tax breaks from companies that move manufacturing jobs.
If you take away the tax break and increase their tax rate….
They increase their prices…and reduce overhead(jobs)….no ones buys….they go out of business……. GOOD PLAN.
Somewhere over the rainbow…….
Let’s hope it’s a fast four and out……..
Chicago Stan (83dd3d) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:16 pmEric– thanks for the heads up! 🙂
qdpsteve (c1be57) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:16 pmAmericans don’t die waiting for it???? Wow do you live in a cave? Obama’s mother died trying to get coverage for her cancer. Don’t you have a TV?
There it is right in front of you, are you just to stupid to understand. The President, Obama is living proof that Americans are dying, his own mother died and you still can’t except that we have the worst healthcare coverage (and most overpriced) of all the industrial nations.
Mark (b21618) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:18 pmWith the US automakers on the verge of bankruptcy, I can see the two BEST things to do right now are obviously:
1. For CA to put new development investment demands on them and
2. For card check to go through so Toyota and Honda can be put in the same position as the US automakers.
I can see why Obama was chosen for his economic plans. I can see why McCain taking two days to go to Washington totally made him lose the argument on the economy.
MayBee (136bac) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:18 pmMark – Why can’t Obama supporters such as yourself handle victory graciously. Are you an example of the unity Obama wants everybody to accept?
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:21 pmAmericans don’t die waiting for it???? Wow do you live in a cave? Obama’s mother died trying to get coverage for her cancer. Don’t you have a TV?
No she did not. Obama says she spent time arguing with her insurers on the phone. We don’t know the details.
MayBee (136bac) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:21 pmHowever, she lived outside the US most of her life. I have no idea if she made enough to pay US taxes while she lived abroad. What kind of insurance do you think the US owed her?
Mark
Wow, I am here to tell you that is a pretty cheap house payment.
I did not say the best healthcare plan, I said the best healthcare in the world.
That means the top medical doctors in the world.
Mark, news flash, democrats have been making this government healthcare argument for over 20 years and I think more closer to 30 years and we have yet to see them ever get it done, it’s the ploy they use to get voted in office.
ML (14488c) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:23 pmGreat posts, as usual, Dmac.
Yeah, the previous place is…complicated. I don’t talk with those folks anymore, for the reasons you describe. And the latest business is particularly distressing. But…people choose where and how to spend their time!
Eric Blair (a723e0) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:24 pmThe illegal Iraq invasion was supposed to create democracy in the Middle East by allowing the repressed Shiite people the right to vote. Except for the fact that Iran, Iranians, are Shiite’s so Iraq who had been the only country in the way of Iran will now be exactly like the Iran???
Great, Bush allowed the Iranians move hundreds of miles closer to Israel. Another great plan brought to the world by the Neo-Cons.
Mark (b21618) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:26 pm“Yeah that sounds like a great health care system we have.”
Mark – I get it. You’re like a lot of libs. When you find out how much health insurance actually costs, all you care about is that somebody else pays for it.
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:27 pmHey Mark, come to Illinois and see how our health coverage works………
Chicago Stan (83dd3d) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:31 pmNot really working due to party dysfunctional nature…..
Is this the example that Obama is going to use?????
So they’ll just end up raising the price of their products and services, which will impact the poor the most.
Mossberg500 (9fd170) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:32 pmWe have the best system because you say so, good point. Your right we should just hand all our money over to the health insurance companies.
I’ll slow it down for you. It’s not our doctors that are making the money. It’s our corrupt Insurance companies that are stealing the money.
Are you an insurance CEO with a golden parachute? I guess you just love insurance companies? Who doesn’t.
Good news, the system is going to get fixed.
Mark (b21618) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:32 pmHe’ll just tax those who make more than $50k to cover it….
Chicago Stan (83dd3d) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:33 pm“As for the illegal invasion of Iraq.”
There’s nothing illegal about the war in Iraq. An example of an illegal war would be Clinton’s unprovoked attack on the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, which was a flagrant violation of international law. The war in Iraq is not such an example.
“Please, Republicans created the largest government spending of all time!”
Actually federal government expenditures have been fairly constant, about 20% of GDP, since about 1975.
Virually all growth in the federal government since the Great Depression took place in the period 1930-75, when federal government expenditures rose from 5% of GDP to its present level of 20% GDP, and when, of course, the liberal Democrats virtually always controlled the federal government.
What the Republicans have failed to do is to reduce the size of the federal government as they promised they would do, but they haven’t really made it larger.
Dave Surls (ccc5c0) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:33 pmLet’s eliminate the “GOLDEN PENSIONS” that our politicians get as a start…….
If Obama says we should be able to get the same coverage that the politicians have, they should get the same pension plan that we do…….
Chicago Stan (83dd3d) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:37 pmNo, it does not. There may be a plan out there that raises it rates by that much, but given your track record of hysterical hyperbole in this thread alone, it in not surprising.
Souce, please.
Mark appears to be arguing with either the voices in its head, or the hallucinations it sees in its basement.
JD (831256) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:40 pmMark @ 83 – That was a solid contributor to the Most Strawmen in One Comment contest, as well as the Most Dishonest, and the Most Disjointed.
JD (831256) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:41 pmMark is sounding alot like Senator Hairplugs!YMMV!
Mossberg500 (9fd170) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:42 pm” It’s our corrupt Insurance companies that are stealing the money.”
Mark – I’ve noticed a conspicuous lack of support for all of your boilerplate progressive talking points. Do you have any or are you just a gasbag?
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:43 pmRe #85 – Thank you!
Also, it’s the entitlements folks! You ain’t seen nothing yet though.
Keep the change (ee01f7) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:43 pmThe Ultra rich corporations. Yes they have really been doing such a great job, just look at Wall St?
So if corporations don’t have to pay taxes then who picks up the tab for their taxes?? Oh that would be every American who has to pay taxes. You and me and the rest of hard working Americans, wow that sounds fair. So I can lose my job anyway, ok.Your right we must protect the Ultra rich at all costs.
It’s the American people that should pay all the taxes and lose their jobs and have no health insurance so we can just go the emergency room (I’m sure the ER is a cheap place to get medical attention).
So you’re for Socialism for the Ultra rich Corporations ($700 BILLION Bail out, ps the cost will go up) and no taxes but they still get to keep all of the profits, dividends and Golden Parachutes.
Yeah it’s hard to argue against logic like that. You must be one of those wizards on Wall St.
How’s your 401K???
I transferred my 401K out of the stock market back in March. Oh, looks like I actually made money.
But you’re the smart one. All the experts have told you to just let it ride! How’s the ride?
Mark (b21618) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:44 pmAmericans don’t die waiting for it???? Wow do you live in a cave? Obama’s mother died trying to get coverage for her cancer. Don’t you have a TV?
Oh, you mean this?
Unfortunately for you, the Washington Post tells a different tale:
Steve Gilbert at Sweetness & Light refutes Obama’s ad:
There it is right in front of you, are you just to stupid to understand.
Never underestimate the Google-searching ability of someone whose use of sources talents were so high by high school age they could no longer be measured.
Paul (creator of "Staunch Brayer") (f4c545) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:45 pmNope, just killin time waiting for the game to start
Mark (b21618) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:46 pmObama’s mother died trying to get coverage for her cancer.
Possibly. Nixon had not implemented Medicare and Medicaid yet. Health insurance 40 years ago was not what it is today, either. Or cancer treatment for that matter. But The One can certainly turn back time and bring his mother to here and now to save her, can he not?
You know Mark, there’s a place that will give you everything you think Obama will: Free housing, free food, free health care and sex on demand. It’s called Stateville Prison.
nk (95bfab) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:46 pmMark must have had insider information from Senator Barney Frankfuter back in March.
Chicago Stan (83dd3d) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:47 pmIt is if you’re an illegal alien. Time to renounce you’re US citizenship, move to a different country, and re-enter illegally!
Mossberg500 (9fd170) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:47 pmAccording to the Washington Post. Yes the fishwrap is always correct, I mean it’s in ink so it has to be correct.
Mark (b21618) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:49 pmPaul – Quit kicking Mark in the teeth. It is not fair.
JD (831256) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:49 pmBut you’re the smart one. All the experts have told you to just let it ride! How’s the ride?
You strike me as someone who received numerous atomic wedgies in school, Marky – Mark.
Dmac (e30284) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:50 pmHere’s Obamas quote:
“I remember my mother. She was 53 years old when she died of ovarian cancer, and you know what she was thinking about in the last months of her life? She wasn’t thinking about getting well. She wasn’t thinking about coming to terms with her own mortality. She had been diagnosed just as she was transitioning between jobs.
And she wasn’t sure whether insurance was going to cover the medical expenses because they might consider this a preexisting condition.
I remember just being heartbroken, seeing her struggle through the paperwork and the medical bills and the insurance forms. So, I have seen what it’s like when somebody you love is suffering because of a broken health care system. And it’s wrong. It’s not who we are as a people.” …
What was she complaining about, I wish I had a health plan that good.
Mark (b21618) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:51 pmPaul bring up a good point.
How come with all of the money the Obama’s made, don’t forget his wife’s BIG salary, he never gave any of it to his family?
He talks about spreading the wealth, does that mean everyone else’s except his???
Chicago Stan (83dd3d) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:52 pmI transferred my 401K out of the stock market back in March. Oh, looks like I actually made money.
You like your 401K?
Here what the Dems are proposing:
Say goodbye to your retirement nest egg!
Paul (creator of "Staunch Brayer") (f4c545) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:53 pmHow did he see all of that paperwork if he was never there?
She was suffering from having cancer, misdiagnosed in another country. The state of healthcare here had little, if anything, to do with her situation.
JD (831256) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:54 pmPaul – Play nice 😉
JD (831256) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:55 pmPaul,
Nice work. Most people have no idea that the bastard never found time to visit his mother as she lay dying. He was just too busy hustling a buck off his phony “dream” of the sperm donor who ran like a rabbit from a father’s responsibility. As his son will.
Rick Ballard (e3e91f) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:55 pmI want to be able to invest in the same programs that the politicians can and not lose money.
Chicago Stan (83dd3d) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:56 pmAccording to the Washington Post. Yes the fishwrap is always correct, I mean it’s in ink so it has to be correct.
The “fishwrap” endorsed Obama for President.
Paul (creator of "Staunch Brayer") (f4c545) — 11/9/2008 @ 12:57 pmPaul – Play nice
Oh, come on, JD. It’s been weeks since I’ve factually pounded a moonbat troll. Let me have my fun.
Paul (creator of "Staunch Brayer") (f4c545) — 11/9/2008 @ 1:03 pmMark – I hope your comments are meant as a joke – for example ‘ most bankruptcies due to medical bills, this has to be quite frankly absurd. medical bills are UNSECURED Debt. Which means the medical providers can do virtually nothing to collect. In other words, why would anyone waste time and money to file bankruptcy for medical bills.
Your other comment regarding spending the most for health care with the worst outcomes in the industrial world shows you lack any remote understanding of health care facts. Make an effort to become eductated on the subject before acting like an authority on the subject.
Joe - Dallas (85ffd2) — 11/9/2008 @ 1:06 pm—our great health care system is only great for people who don’t get sick. Americans pay the most! Let me repeat for the slow readers, the MOST $$$$ for health care and rank near the bottom of Industrial Countries for healthcare.
Old Mark is really excited, it may be chemically induced. Mark, buddy, you want nationalized health care because of your terrible need for a head in butt-ectomy.
I worked in military health care for several years. ….That will be a 2 month wait for your appointment…..
red (c80113) — 11/9/2008 @ 1:07 pmLots of politicians do this kind of thing. Remember Al Gore and the “health care for pets” nonsense?
The frustrating part is that when a Republican goes over the top with hyperbole, he or she get smacked by the press. I don’t mind that at all. I like to see politicians smacked around, considering what they do to us as citizens.
But when a Democrat does that kind of thing it gets ignored or minimized.
The press talked a lot, for example, about Mark Foley’s nonsense. Rightly so: the behavior was unprofessional and skeevey. But strangely, the press had to be dragged kicking and screaming to the equally reprehensible (or worse) behavior by his successor (who lost, I’m pleased to report).
Ace and Instapundit and Hot Air often play the game: Name that Party! The MSM seems to not think it is relevant to put that “D” after the name of the legally or ethically challenged…but if it is a Republican, that descriptor is right up there in bold type.
Let’s agree to smack around any politician who acts dishonestly or dishonorably. Okay?
All that being said, there are few things more disgusting than to exaggerate stories about the death of a parent for political purposes.
It’s worse, even, than claims that the civil rights march in Selma was the inspiration for your own birth! Particularly when you were born a few years prior to those marches!
As Ace puts it: nuance!
Eric Blair (a723e0) — 11/9/2008 @ 1:09 pmPaul- There is a really interesting question in all of this, if we are going to go to single payer healthcare or follow Obama’s plan, either way– what do we do with US citizens who have been living abroad and working for foreign companies abroad, making to little $$ to pay US Taxes.
How should any new laws be formed for them?
Should a new insurance company be forced to take on someone with cancer?
MayBee (136bac) — 11/9/2008 @ 1:10 pmShould a foreign employer cover treatment in the US?
Should the taxpayers accept responsibility?
That should be to Mark, of course.
MayBee (136bac) — 11/9/2008 @ 1:11 pmI worked in military health care for several years. ….That will be a 2 month wait for your appointment…..
Exactly, red. Anyone citing the VA in an argument for single payer health care automatically refutes any such argument.
Paul (creator of "Staunch Brayer") (f4c545) — 11/9/2008 @ 1:14 pmHey Mark:
Your assertions are in dire need of help.
You wouldn’t just abandon them, would you?
Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrk?
Paul (creator of "Staunch Brayer") (f4c545) — 11/9/2008 @ 1:20 pmComment by Mark — 11/9/2008 @ 11:07 am
Yes, those Detroit Auto Companies are “so greedy” that they reported losses for the third-quarter of the year of
Another Drew (c881b0) — 11/9/2008 @ 1:38 pm-$2.5B for General Motors, and -$2.9B for Ford (that’s 27.5 Million Dollars a Day – LOSS).
With greed like that, it’s any wonder they’re in business at all.
The AARP has been advertising for months that there are a million bankruptcies a year due to medical debt and I suspect that’s where Mark picked up his claim. But there aren’t a million bankruptcies a year in the United States, let alone a million bankruptcies caused by medical debt. Here’s a link to US bankruptcy statistics. There were approximately 617,000 bankruptcies filed in 2006 and 850,000 in 2007 and while many of them probably included some medical debt, I’m certain medical debt was not the sole or even the main cause in very many of them.
DRJ (cb68f2) — 11/9/2008 @ 1:38 pmDRJ, I can’t post links, but I’m sure that Mark got his information from a Harvard Medical School/Harvard Law School report from 2001. It’s easily found online.
But you are of course correct. Everyone has an axe to grind. You know the Bob Dylan line: “If you got a lot of knives and forks, you gotta find something to cut.” That is sure true for HMS—they are concerned about health care costs so it isn’t a surprise that that problem is the largest in their world.
Eric Blair (a723e0) — 11/9/2008 @ 1:41 pmI’ll look for the link because I doubt that many filings were due to medical debt. Are there debtors who owe medical debt? Absolutely. Is that the bulk of their debt? Rarely. Bankruptcy debt is generally for debt secured by houses and cars, for taxes, and for credit cards.
DRJ (cb68f2) — 11/9/2008 @ 1:46 pmDoes anyone know what time Mark has to report back to the home from his weekend furlough?
Another Drew (c881b0) — 11/9/2008 @ 1:52 pmI’m not the only blogger who questions the AARP’s claims:
DRJ (cb68f2) — 11/9/2008 @ 1:53 pmDRJ,
Thank you for the link to the BK stats. The rate was well over a million per year until the revisions to the BK laws concerning discharge of credit card debt were passed. In fact, BKs fell from over 2 million in ’05 to 617K in ’06.
It appears that credit card debt might have been a much larger driver of BKs than medical debt.
Rick Ballard (e3e91f) — 11/9/2008 @ 1:54 pmI’ll try with the link, DRJ:
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/bankruptcy_study.html
Boy, I dislike trolls. I wish I could ignore the nonsense, as you can. After all, they are just about picking fights, not give and take learning and debate.
Oh, and eschewing punctuation.
Eric Blair (a723e0) — 11/9/2008 @ 2:10 pmBoy, I dislike trolls. I wish I could ignore the nonsense, as you can.
I love it when ignorant trolls show up, and I have the time to eviscerate their arguments. They’re like the cupcake opponents college football teams schedule for homecoming.
Paul (creator of "Staunch Brayer") (f4c545) — 11/9/2008 @ 2:16 pmI appreciate that, Paul. I am reminded of what my father told me (and I know it is a very old joke): never wrestle with a pig. It wastes your time, gets you all muddy…and the pig likes it.
The goal of trolls is to stir up trouble and fight passive-aggressively (they would never actually speak to another person one and one the way they post, generally speaking). And I know it is about the troll’s ability to feel powerful via anonymity.
Thus, it makes me happy that folks like you, JD, Dmac, Icy Truth, and many others enjoy giving the trolls what they deserve.
It’s healthier than my getting irritated with them.
Eric Blair (a723e0) — 11/9/2008 @ 2:21 pmComment by Eric Blair — 11/9/2008 @ 2:21 pm
As a matter of professional courtesy, Eric, I think we should let you eviscerate “truthnjustice” in the future, now that we have established that he is a “certified educator”.
Another Drew (c881b0) — 11/9/2008 @ 2:38 pmOf course, we will have to tie one of your hands behind your back, for “fairness”.
That’s what I was attempting to get at earlier in this thread – since that Troll is now claiming expertise via a teaching career, you’re our designated Fisker on those posts.
We’ll still make fun of it, of course – how could anyone refuse?
Dmac (e30284) — 11/9/2008 @ 3:02 pmAARP’s bankruptcy claim is an outright fraudulent one.
SPQR (26be8b) — 11/9/2008 @ 3:14 pmSay, has anybody seen this story yet?
Even now, plans under way for Obama national holiday
Planning under way for Obama holiday
Change!
Paul (creator of "Staunch Brayer") (f4c545) — 11/9/2008 @ 3:15 pmKind of you. I am often ashamed at my fellow educators and what they do in the classroom.
We had Hillary Clinton on campus earlier in the election season, and faculty were all “encouraged” to cancel class for that historic event. I was teaching freshman, and I had these three fellows I called “The Three Amigos.”
They were always late to class, and always stoned. Always. At 10 in the morning.
Anyway, I insisted that I would be in class on Hillary Day, since not every student supported Hillary Clinton. I am supposed to be everybody’s professor, after all. No penalty if a student didn’t show, but I would be there for those students who cared to attend.
About half the class showed up (just like the country; split down the middle).
The Three Amigos did not.
Later that afternoon, still reeking of cannabis, and fairly incoherent, they dropped by my office to explain “We were at that Clinton gig.”
I wanted say “Yup. You are surely Hillary Clinton’s target demographic.”
But I didn’t. I congratulated them on their political awareness and savvy acumen.
They laughed precisely like Jeff Spicoli in “Fast Times at Ridgemont High” and shambled off for another bong session.
Incidentally, of those three, the highest grade was a C-minus that term.
Sigh.
Eric Blair (a723e0) — 11/9/2008 @ 3:17 pmWhoops. My post was response to Dmac and AD’s.
Eric Blair (a723e0) — 11/9/2008 @ 3:18 pmEric Blair:
I love that.
EW1(SG) (7b8592) — 11/9/2008 @ 3:19 pmOne thing that should be realized is that Old people have brains that have ‘tracks’ that cannot change so old ideas and old ways are roads in the brain. Young people and children have the whole brain as active energy that have not developed paths. So new ideas are easy and learning new technology is easy. Old people should not have their life extended. 70 plus years is enough. Let the young have the new ideas as the young brains can take it. So, do not continue stem cell research to ‘continue’ the life of old people. this is destroying the young for the benefit of the rich old. this is evil and will destroy the earth and kill all the unborn young. Stem cell are used by the body to create a new infant. The old are not infants and have had their time and chance.
Ken (528581) — 11/9/2008 @ 4:28 pmWhen Obama lifts the restriction on embryonic stem cell research at the federal level, the California $6 billion Embryonic Stem Cell program becomes completely obsolete. Will we see any attempt by LA Times to explain that or advocate a repeal of Prop 71? Of course not. They are idiots and that doesn’t fit their template.
Wesson (f6c982) — 11/9/2008 @ 4:48 pmThe One from 2004…
Do you think he really believes this? Maybe when the opposition is in power.
jeff (510f8a) — 11/9/2008 @ 4:52 pmDECEMBER 21st, 2012
Though it has gained one in modern times, there is no evidence that the mayans attributed any apocalyptic connotation to the end of the calendar cycle. In fact generally reaching the end of the smaller cycles was a cause for celebration.
Taltos (4dc0e8) — 11/9/2008 @ 4:57 pmSpecifically, the Obama Administration will almost certainly implement rules that support cap-and-trade policies and possibly a carbon tax that I expect Congress will pass in a revised version of the Boxer-Lieberman-Warner bill.
Oh, brother. Just another way of increasing prices for the average consumer. And when I think of environmentalism under politicians of the left, I envision the irony and phony-baloney nature of someone like Barack Obama giving a speech last year in Illinois about the perils of global warming, and his being seen by reporters driving off after his lecture in his SUV.
So if OPEC doesn’t give us the finger, then the Obama/Gore-ites (and, admittedly, McCain* wouldn’t have been much better) will be waiting in the wings to do the same.
* I’ve often wanted to ask people similar to McCain, if you’re so worried about global warming, then why the hell are you living in a waterless hotbox like Arizona!!?
Mark (411533) — 11/9/2008 @ 6:36 pmEven now, plans under way for Obama national holiday
If I didn’t know better, I’d think that story was a parody or something from “The Onion.”
I wonder if the average American realizes that no single American other than Martin Luther King Jr has a holiday in his honor? Originally there were two days set aside to commemorate George Washington and Abraham Lincoln, but Congress some time ago changed that format by lumping the two days together, and instituted a rather generic, vague and bland-sounding “Presidents Day.”
Mark (411533) — 11/9/2008 @ 6:42 pmYes, the best interventionist medical care is in the US.
Yes, there are significant problems in how medical care is provided, paid for, and regulated in this country.
Yes, when Barack Obama and other Dems wanted to do something to help provide housing for people who couldn’t afford it, they did a really good job…wait a second, that’s not how it turned out!!
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 11/9/2008 @ 7:31 pmYeah, what could be worse than tougher environmental policies that result in less pollution and more efficient cars in California – what is Obama thinking??
Tom (c4bda6) — 11/9/2008 @ 7:40 pmMark – In Chicago they got Roman Polanski Day. Seriously, what’s up with that?
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 11/9/2008 @ 9:59 pmHow do we feel about Obama actually giving human rights a shot?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081110/ap_on_el_pr/obama_guantanamo
truthnjustice (d99227) — 11/10/2008 @ 3:15 amYeah, but born alive fetus’ from botched abortions, not so much.
Mossberg500 (9fd170) — 11/10/2008 @ 3:50 amWay to dodge the question with factually incorrect statements.
truthnjustice (3d65f9) — 11/10/2008 @ 4:01 amJust going on his voting record? Should’ve voted “present”.
Mossberg500 (9fd170) — 11/10/2008 @ 4:10 amSo car sales will plummet. That’s OK, we’ll just send more bailout billions to Detroit.
See? It all works out in the end.
MJBrutus (78a680) — 11/10/2008 @ 4:10 amThat’s why Jennifer Granholm was smiling so much at Barky’s press conference.
Mossberg500 (9fd170) — 11/10/2008 @ 4:30 amLook, just about everything is lost. That’s the world we live in.
My question is whether they will move to break the filibuster, stack the Supreme Court, or move against the free press. I would also fight over the census and election fraud. But these are merely with the hope that they will not follow through with their victory.
There is not much we can do and not much time before the curtain falls for good.
Amphipolis (fdbc48) — 11/10/2008 @ 5:37 amEric B – Thanks. In the avalanche of BS that flowed from the Baracky campaign, I had forgotten about this one.
Baracky supported the legislation that would allow children born alive after a botched abortion to essentially be left for dead. That is a fact.
JD (831256) — 11/10/2008 @ 5:39 amPlease, don’t confuse it with your so – called “facts.”
Dmac (e30284) — 11/10/2008 @ 7:04 amObama is one issue. An unrestrained Pelosi congress is another.
Congress will propose a heap of legislation in January. The Republicans will barely have time to read it before it is passed and signed. The Press will not have a clue what is going on.
They will head off a filibuster and public scrutiny with the sheer volume and pace of legislation. The Republicans need to develop a strategy to address this, and to decide what to filibuster.
Amphipolis (fdbc48) — 11/10/2008 @ 7:21 am@150 – JD, are you talking about SB 230? Because if so, that was a deeply flawed bill, so broad as to potentially criminalize ALL abortions (it defined “fetus” as “person”), and did not include an exception for the sake of the health of the mother.
Tom (c4bda6) — 11/10/2008 @ 7:24 amLinks to Barack Obama’s votes on IL’s Born Alive Infant Protection Act
Mossberg500 (9fd170) — 11/10/2008 @ 7:45 amTom- why would the life of the mother ever be dependent on killing the baby/fetus?
MayBee (136bac) — 11/10/2008 @ 8:49 amTom – It was a bill that he voted for. That you declare it flawed does not make his vote any less noxious.
JD (831256) — 11/10/2008 @ 8:55 amThere’s a very, very narrow set of circumstances in which that would be the case. For example, pregnant woman is diagnosed with a nasty, aggressive cancer. Chemotherapy and radiation are indicated and time is of the essence. The law forbids administering such treatments to pregnant people, and they’d likely kill the child if they are used.
I know a couple that were expecting and had just those circumstances thrust upon them. They never did come to a decision because she died while they were deliberating.
As I said, there’s a very narrow set of medical circumstances that would apply. When the term “health” of the mother is used, then we’re talking about something entirely different.
Pablo (99243e) — 11/10/2008 @ 9:02 amThere’s a very, very narrow set of circumstances in which that would be the case. For example, pregnant woman is diagnosed with a nasty, aggressive cancer. Chemotherapy and radiation are indicated and time is of the essence. The law forbids administering such treatments to pregnant people, and they’d likely kill the child if they are used.
I had an acquaintance make a similar decision, but it was early term.
MayBee (136bac) — 11/10/2008 @ 9:07 amI should have clarified that I was talking late-term, here. It seems to me then that a successful delivery could be made.
Tom is just regurgitating the Obama campaign talking points on the issue that were developed after Baracky was caught lying about his votes.
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 11/10/2008 @ 9:08 amI guess the question would be “How late?”. The case I’m familiar with was beyond the first trimester but delivery was not a viable option. This goes back several years, so the viability mark may have moved since.
Pablo (99243e) — 11/10/2008 @ 9:09 amI guess the question would be “How late?”
Yeah, that is the question. Nobody seems to want to answer it. I’m pro-choice, but I can’t believe it could be legal to have an abortion right up to the point of birth.
MayBee (136bac) — 11/10/2008 @ 9:17 amYet there is a point of viability, and the “life of the mother”, beyond that point, seems completely separate from killing the baby before delivery.
I can see exceptions for the condition of the fetus (for example, a fetus developing without a brain). I can see an emergency situation where the doctors have to focus on saving the mother or the late-term fetus. But I can’t see why you’d need to schedule an abortion of a viable fetus to save the life of a mother.
The people I was referring to most definitely wanted the child and if they could have delivered it, that would have been a no-brainer for them.
The trouble with legislating such things is that you probably have to fix a point in gestation and call it “viability”. Just shy of 22 weeks is the earliest point documented, but even at 24 weeks, survival is low. But then, technology is moving the bar.
Pablo (99243e) — 11/10/2008 @ 9:27 am“But I can’t see why you’d need to schedule an abortion of a viable fetus to save the life of a mother.”
Woodrow Wilson, Margaret Sanger and Barak Obama could explain it to you. It’s dependent upon an objective* determination regarding the genetic fitness of the life being taken. As good progressives, all three of them understood that some lives are of intrinsically higher value than others. The concept was fully explored in Germany between 1937 and 1945. Some people regard the results as being “mixed”. This may be because abortion at the 560th month from conception appears a bit late to the layman.
*progspeak – means subjective
MayBee – stick with “quickening”, it’s been the de facto rule for several thousand years.
Rick Ballard (e3e91f) — 11/10/2008 @ 9:30 amI see a lot of disparate views on the economy throughout these comments here. Here’s a viewpoint which I deem quite insightful about the underlying factors of this particular downturn. It was written by Wm. Bonner, a financial publisher.
“…Obama is beginning to realize what he’s up against. This is no ordinary cyclical downturn. Typically, a slump brings interest rates down. (Usually accompanied by central bank rate cuts.) Cheaper borrowing arouses business and speculative activity…which, in turn, tends to get the economy moving again.
This time, that’s not happening. The authorities are handing out money below the inflation rate and practically begging banks to lend… But who wants to lend when there’s a danger you might not get your money back? And who wants to borrow when everyone is desperate to get out of debt?
Today’s Financial Times announces that another 70,000 jobs could be lost on Wall Street. Who needs so many employees when no one’s doing any deals? No one’s borrowing…no one’s lending…investors are running scared…and private equity is curled up in a cave somewhere…
Why? Because it’s a ‘balance sheet recession,’ not a regular, cyclical downturn. People have lost a lot of money…and they’re afraid of losing more. So businesses are cutting back as fast as they can. The job losses aren’t limited to Wall Street. Today’s news from Associated Press tells us that there are 10 million people out of work – the most in 25 years. The New York Times says unemployment is at a 14-year high. (We didn’t study the figures to see how they differ; but we predict that the figures in the last quarter of this year will be even more alarming…)”
This just one slice of a much larger picture, but a slice that many seem to either not recognize, or simply gloss over. Until this debt overhang and credit freeze is worked out of the system…you can finish this sentence anyway you like since the future is a lot slippier than it’s been for quite a while. Stay nimble if you can. Those ‘executive power’ declarations have teeth. And never forget that cash is king right up until your cash is trash. Remember the yen?
allan (352257) — 11/10/2008 @ 11:28 amHello, my name is hope. I am almost 18 weeks old and I live in the United States. I have never in all the weeks that I have been alive been placed under so much stress. Theres alot of grown ups fighting over me, some say Im an inconvience, an accident, my grandparents told my mom that I was a miracle. This big old place called society isn’t sure what to make of me. I dont have any rights, no privelages, no constitution, no bill of rights and no dad. I don’t have much to afford to those who read what I do have to say. I do though, wish that you would give me the benefit of the doubt, is your life worth anything less and is mine?
Alot of people have been telling my mom that a monumental decision was made by the american people, the first black president. Im not sure about what they meant for I can;t see many colors. I heard I was above his pay scale, and as my mother was learning about her options, I learned that my chance of survival has diminished significantly with this vote. I wish he would change his mind on me. I pray he changes his mind on me.
My mother wasn’t supposed to get pregnant, not now, not at this point in the road. You see, she has to have a surgery. Her leg dislocates and it is nessecary for her to have that fixed, she watched the medical procedure on the internet. She later wanted to view the options I had, the procedure wasnt there to be viewed, and when she learned this she expanded her search to brain and heart surgery, those were there too and she wondered why this other option wasn’t viewable. I wish she would stop looking for it and look for reasons why and how I can be there.
Later that week, a friend came over. Her best friend from high school, I liked her too. The soft talk quickly became serious. The concerns my mother had adapted to became decisions she could choose. Her choices became front and center of the conversation. For me, it boiled down to a simple option. Im either going to exist, or I wont exist. I pray that she will let me exist. I promise to be a good kid, I promise… I promise.
I just have one thing to tell you. I dont have many options. My mother has been informed of the choices she has. And I gotta tell you, your choices suck. Is this the best you can afford, is this your idea of a choice!
Please pray for me.
The Unborn (626894) — 11/10/2008 @ 4:19 pmand let me be.
Right ON dude! Awesome point of view and method of getting these little peoples voice out there. I believe you accurately represented what they would say to us. I wonder how the election would have gone if it were possible for them to vote. Guarenteed popular vote would have been in John McCains favour!
Mark (626894) — 11/10/2008 @ 4:31 pmYeah not only popular vote, but its the democrats ideology, think about the blue states with these little peoples votes in it. Perhaps some blue would have went red!
Travis (626894) — 11/10/2008 @ 4:40 pm— Comment by Rick Ballard — 11/10/2008 @ 9:30 am
” As good progressives, all three of them understood that some lives are of intrinsically higher value than others. The concept was fully explored in Germany between 1937 and 1945.”
Well said!
It is interesting that modern-day Germany has the one of the most restrictive laws on abortion in the Western World.
In an effort to completely separate from the human eugenics experiments conducted by the German Nazis of WWII, German law recognizes the human rights of a fetus.
The moral and ethical arguments are much more sophisticated and better constructed that I am able to present. I find it fascinating that their national history, sense of justice, ethical reasoning, and perhaps shared-guilt led their nation to a different conclusion than the United States.
I hope (and wish and pray) that our national conscience would oblige us to develop our own Code of Ethics that would protect an unborn child.
Sadly, given President-elect Obama’s philosophy as revealed by his (limited) legal opinions, there is not a chance that will happen in this term.
Pons Asinorum (f0d1b9) — 11/11/2008 @ 12:03 amthat abortion has become the greatest destroyer of peace. we are afraid of the nuclears, because it is touching us.
but we are not afraid, the mother is not afraid to commit this terrible murder. Even when god himself speaks of that…he says. ” even if the mother could forget her child, i will not forget you. Ive carved you from the palm of my hand. You are precious to me. I love you.”
These are gods own words to you to me to tell little unborn child.
Quote from Mother Thersea. You can view the video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqS-vJzId1E
Travis (491a04) — 11/11/2008 @ 10:17 amIt is interesting that modern-day Germany has the one of the most restrictive laws on abortion in the Western World.
In an effort to completely separate from the human eugenics experiments conducted by the German Nazis of WWII, German law recognizes the human rights of a fetus. Comment by Pons Asinorum — 11/11/2008 @ 12:03 am
I believe Germany is also against embryonic stem cell and other research that blurs the line of human cloning.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 11/12/2008 @ 7:05 pm