Patterico's Pontifications

9/17/2008

E-Mail Hacking Throws the Spotlight on the Jerks in the Room

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 9:54 pm



UPDATE x3 [BUMPED TO TOP]: John Cole and his band of boobs pretend that he was obviously being sarcastic with the phrase “lovable scamps.” Well, that phrase is very similar to the phrase “fun-loving Internet trouble-makers” that Gawker used to describe 4chan — in the same post where Gawker posted private stuff from the e-mails.

“Lovable scamps” is the kind of phrase you use when you feel the obligation to condemn, but your heart really isn’t in it. As such, it’s a phrase I’ll be using regularly in the future, with a link back to this post. For example: “I heard some lovable scamps did a DDoS attack on Cole’s site today. There is no love for that sort of thing here and I certainly do condemn it.”

Original post follows.

The hacking of Sarah Palin’s e-mail has the vermin crawling out of the woodwork.

John Cole calls the people who hacked Sarah Palin’s e-mail “lovable scamps.” In Cole’s world, surveilling murderous terrorists is evil; hacking Republicans’ e-mail is lovable.

Would it be OK for Track Palin to react to Cole’s post by stomping on Cole’s testicles? Your thoughts are welcome!

Meanwhile, the cretins at Gawker defend their actions in posting Palin’s e-mails and private family pictures, disclosing Bristol Palin’s cell phone number, calling that number and taping her outgoing cell phone message and broadcasting it on the Internet, and so forth. Apparently this is all OK and can’t be criticized by Michelle Malkin, because Malkin once reprinted a press release. That’s pretty much the same thing, according to Alex Pareene, who adds that his mother approves of his disgusting actions. (In other words, Pareene didn’t become a scumsucking lowlife by accident; he comes by it honestly, having been raised by someone with no more respect for privacy than he has.)

And I already addressed how RAWMUSLGLUTES handled the hacking — with an approving link calling it “vetting.”

UPDATE: John Cole has added some updates to make it clearer that, in addition to disapproving of Michelle Malkin for supporting the surveillance of terrorists, he also disapproves of people hacking people’s private e-mail accounts. I don’t quite sense the same outrage towards the hackers that he obviously feels for Malkin — but, lest he accuse me of distorting his post, why don’t you read it yourself and come to your own conclusion.

UPDATE x2: Michelle Malkin has a pretty convincing account of the way this went down. Sounds like a) the jerk read all the e-mails and found nothing, and b) the guy should be easy to find and prosecute.

206 Responses to “E-Mail Hacking Throws the Spotlight on the Jerks in the Room”

  1. He was obviously using lovable scamps sarcastically, as his update makes clear by calling them jackasses and morons whose “forte is porn, pedophilia, racism, gaming, and hacking.” Maybe you posted before the update and missed that part, but he clearly doesn’t find them lovable.

    I read it as criticism of Palin for conducting state business on an unsecure web based e-mail account, with a side swipe at Malkin’s outrage over this private snooping after years of strong support for unfettered government snooping. I don’t think he was referencing Malkin’s press release episode at all.

    Aplomb (b6fba6)

  2. None of the emails released seems to indicate that Palin was actually conducting state business on her private Yahoo email account.

    Unless photos of her children are considered “state business”.

    Evil Pundit (843b74)

  3. Y’know, I’m mildly worried that there are folks out there who can’t see the difference between individuals doing something, and the gov’t doing it.

    I suppose that’s why they’re usually anti-death penalty….

    Foxfier (15ac79)

  4. Anything to win. And they accuse McCain of taking the low road.

    Icy Truth (ef009a)

  5. So far we have the Secret Service, FBI and Justice department involved. Lots of local and state police organizations will soon join them. Someone won’t be laughing too long and Gawker could/should join the hackers in the bend over club real soon.

    Scrapiron (d671ab)

  6. There’s a good thread at Volokh on this with a lot of stuff showing that the whole argument about personal/government email is bogus and was made up out of whole cloth by the Washington Post. She had a right to have a personal email account and use it while she was working. And hacking into it is a felony.

    rockmom (e42807)

  7. He was obviously using lovable scamps sarcastically, as his update makes clear by calling them jackasses and morons whose “forte is porn, pedophilia, racism, gaming, and hacking.” Maybe you posted before the update and missed that part, but he clearly doesn’t find them lovable.

    Yeah, he posted that update in reaction to my post. I know because he IM’d me about it and accused me of distorting his post.

    I still find it telling that his initial outrage appears directed at Malkin and McCain, with the behavior of the hackers dismissed with light sarcasm. His serious disapproval of the hackers is an afterthought, which I believe he was shamed into posting.

    But maybe I’m just angry because I was accused of “distorting” and “mischaracterizing” his post, when he says not one word about the shitty behavior of Gawker, and chose to broadside Malkin while gently chiding the “scamps” who fricking hacked someone’s private e-mail.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  8. On rare occasions I give cops my gmail account because they are sending me a large attachment relevant to a case, and it comes through easier on gmail than it does in my county e-mail. So, what? Now it’s OK to hack my gmail and publish it to the world, because I have used a personal account on county time for a county purpose?

    What utter crap.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  9. Scrapiron…
    Your comment reminded me of this email I got:

    In a recent survey, people from Detroit have proved to be the
    most likely people in the country to have had sex in the shower!

    In the survey, carried out for leading toiletries firm ‘Brut’, a huge
    86% of Detroit residents said that they have enjoyed sex in the shower.

    The other 14% said they hadn’t been to prison ..

    Another Drew (8a6fd1)

  10. why don’t you read it yourself and come to your own conclusion

    You mean, aside from Cole generally being a jackass?

    Karl (1b4668)

  11. Feel free to use whatever evidence you find compelling in reaching your conclusion.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  12. This is one more sign of despair in ObamaLand. Put as much out that Palin is a dingbat as they can and get WaPo and the NYT to carry their water.

    I predict from what I have seen of her that it will be very interesting when Palin wipes the floor with Biden. The MSM readers will wonder what happened.

    vnjagvet (d3d48a)

  13. “stomping on Cole’s testacles” — you’re making a mighty big leap of faith there and I don’t mean about the stomping part.

    You know, let’s all have a nice vision — Track Palin and John Cole, alone in a well-guarded room for, oh, thiry minutes or so. We might want to add sound-proofing to this little vision to protect innocent ears that might happen by.

    Like wine grapes.

    Arnold (1a3b0c)

  14. Would it be OK for Track Palin to react to Cole’s post by stomping on Cole’s testicles?

    Even Trig could handle that one.

    Jim Treacher (592cb4)

  15. Hate to break this to you guys, but 4chan are seriously Republican leaning.

    🙂

    james (7bdd25)

  16. I was interested in how “whoever” cracked the answers to what I call the “secret questions”. Basically, he used access to public information and guess work.

    My company password automatically expires in 90 days and it needs to be a “strong” password containing a mixture of upper and lowercase characters, numbers, and punctuation. However, there’s a very limited number of secret questions in case you forget it. What I did was choose county and state of birth for questions and use something nongeographical for answers – like “Chevrolet” and “Buick”, for example.

    Company email access is tied to an RSA key generator – different pseudo-random key every 60 seconds.

    On the other hand, I have been less than conscientious about my personal email accounts. I suspect right now that there’s a LOT of password changing going on.

    Jay Stevens (7737df)

  17. With apologies to President Lincoln.
    Now we are engaged in a great COLD civil war. . .testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated. . . can long endure.

    We have never been so divided. Something has to give. No,something will give.

    Paul Albers (0c58f4)

  18. Listen, if we don’t have people snooping through Palin’s e-mail, how can we be sure she’s not secretly a terrorist sympathizer? I don’t understand what Republicans are so upset about.

    Phil (3b1633)

  19. No of course you don’t Phil. But then of course the gene that decides moral thinking and understanding got removed when you became a liberal

    Noelie (5e0c47)

  20. No doubt Greenwald is all over this outrageous invasion of privacy.

    Terry Gain (7586e3)

  21. Hmmm, first it was bad not to use email, as with McCain…

    But now it’s bad to use email, if you’re a Republican?

    The hypocrisy makes my head hurt.

    DMartyr (dfb370)

  22. I guess then the Big O’s ad on McCain has now backfired. It is a good thing NOT to use email.
    I hope the people who were behind this are found guilty and serve a considerable sentence.

    Krystal (b7da94)

  23. “John Cole calls the people who hacked Sarah Palin’s e-mail “lovable scamps.” In Cole’s world, surveilling murderous terrorists is evil; hacking Republicans’ e-mail is lovable”

    you don’t know much about 4chan, do you? Believe me your life is better for that.

    imdw (0b3979)

  24. I think the perpetrators should get the opportunity to play in a hockey game against Levi.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  25. That Phil would defend this is no surprise.

    imdw – The little shits specifically stated that they were looking for political gotchas. Clearly they were Chimpy’s minions.

    JD (41e64f)

  26. “imdw – The little shits specifically stated that they were looking for political gotchas. Clearly they were Chimpy’s minions.”

    who is ‘chimpy’? Obama? Thats a new one. Anyway. If you knew 4chan, you wouldn’t think that one of Obama’s minions would dump this email password on there. You wouldn’t think the minions on either side would do that.

    The guy was looking for damaging content. That doesn’t make him a partisan. That makes him someone looking for a scoop. If you think an Obama yahoo account wouldn’t be attacked by the /b/tards at 4chan, I got a bridge to sell you. You pick the state its in.

    Not all of the world follows partisan molds.

    imdw (c3199c)

  27. Actually nailing the emailer as opposed to nailing the computer source is hard. The computer has to be located in either the residence or office of the perp with hard drive proof to back everything up. In other words, I can walk into a cyber cafe and use their computer email with impunity, walk into someone’s office and do same, and have my computer in a place where anyone can use it. This includes so-called anonymous IP address emails that can be broken.

    howard432 (cc8b85)

  28. imdw – Chimpy is a common term used by the deranged Left in referring to President Bush. The hacker that did it specifically stated he did so in an effort to find dirt to derail her candidacy. If that does not make him on the Left …

    JD (41e64f)

  29. Clearly this was KKKarl Rove’s handiwork.

    JD (41e64f)

  30. JD – They were trying to save the planet IMHO.

    KYOTO!!!!!!!!!!!!

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  31. And, Halliburton. But not Blackwater.

    JD (41e64f)

  32. WE WILL KILL NO CARIBOU

    BEFORE THEIR TIME

    STOP PALIN NOW!!!!!

    KYOTO

    And Halliburton

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  33. Seared caribou is sensational. It ranks up there with elk and bison in my book.

    JD (41e64f)

  34. #26 “The guy was looking for damaging content. That doesn’t make him a partisan.”

    That is exactly what makes him partisan.

    brobin (c07c20)

  35. Malkin usually turns me off, but these Gawker people make her look like a sweet heart. “Lovable scamps?” … 🙁

    KatAttack (edae44)

  36. JD, Got a link to those charges?

    timb (a83d56)

  37. What charge? I suspect that you just do not want to do your homework …

    JD (41e64f)

  38. Today the LA Times is so outraged about the invasion of Sarah Palin’s privacy that it devoted a whole two paragraphs to the story and buried it on A-16 next to “Video Prompts Pig Abuse Inqury.”

    And circulation keeps dropping.

    Alta Bob (e70400)

  39. >> rubico 09/17/08(Wed)12:58:04 No.85782727

    this is all verifiable if some anal /b/tard wants to think Im a troll, and there isn’t any hard proof to the contrary, but anyone who had followed the thread from the beginning to the 404 will know I probably am not, the picture I posted this topic with is the same one as the original thread.

    I read though the emails… ALL OF THEM… before I posted, and what I concluded was anticlimactic, there was nothing there, nothing incriminating, nothing that would derail her campaign as I had hoped, all I saw was personal stuff, some clerical stuff from when she was governor…. And pictures of her family

    I then started a topic on /b/, peeps asked for pics or gtfo and I obliged, then it started to get big

    Earlier it was just some prank to me, I really wanted to get something incriminating which I was sure there would be, just like all of you anon out there that you think there was some missed opportunity of glory, well there WAS NOTHING, I read everything, every little blackberry confirmation… all the pictures, and there was nothing, and it finally set in, THIS internet was serious business, yes I was behind a proxy, only one, if this shit ever got to the FBI I was fucked, I panicked, i still wanted the stuff out there but I didn’t know how to rapidshit all that stuff, so I posted the pass on /b/, and then promptly deleted everything, and unplugged my internet and just sat there in a comatose state

    Then the white knight fucker came along, and did it in for everyone, I trusted /b/ with that email password, I had gotten done what I could do well, then passed the torch , all to be let down by the douchebaggery, good job /b/, this is why we cant have nice things

    The “white knight fucker” was the /b/tard who thought that going through Sarah Palin’s email wasn’t cool. He logged in, changed the password, and sent an email to a friend of Palin’s warning her and letting her know the new password. Unfortunately, he then posted a screenshot of this email to let the other /b/tards know their fun was over. He failed to blank the password, and they all tried to log in and change the password — which tripped the automated Yahoo! freeze. Since then, the account has been deleted. “Rapidshit” refers to rapidshare.com — i.e., rubico wanted to download the emails, put them into one file, and put that file up on rapidshare for /b/tards and the world at large to download. But he panicked, or didn’t know how to download the emails, and so pawned that task off on Anonymous, which he didn’t realize wasn’t monolithic and in his favor.

    JD (41e64f)

  40. imdw – Chimpy is a common term used by the deranged Left in referring to President Bush. The hacker that did it specifically stated he did so in an effort to find dirt to derail her candidacy. If that does not make him on the Left …

    Yeah, imdw — get up to speed.

    Remember: Calling Bush a chimp? Fine. Calling Palin a pig? Fine. Calling Obama a chimp community organizer skinny? RACIST!

    L.N. Smithee (f22eb0)

  41. LN – Don’t forget that noting that he is utterly inexperienced is racist as well.

    JD (41e64f)

  42. I guess you could read anything and interpret it any way you want to, but the first time I read his post I never thought he was “praising” the Email hackers or thought they were “cute.” But if you want to fabricate random dirt on somebody you don’t like, that’s your prerogative.

    Mar (83ff72)

  43. “But if you want to fabricate random dirt on somebody you don’t like, that’s your prerogative.”

    Mar – Are you talking about Cole, Andrew Sullivan, Parene, other Obama surrogates or the Obama campaign itself? I don’t see any fabrication from Patterico, but I see plenty from the above sources.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  44. Juan Cole does not fabricate things. He just makes shit up.

    JD (41e64f)

  45. Comment by Alta Bob — 9/18/2008 @ 7:11 am

    What is the LA Times?
    Enquiring minds want to know.

    Another Drew (c78d34)

  46. Gotta love stupid crooks. Mr. Junior Hacker here is in for a fun ride.

    mojo (8096f2)

  47. Imagine if it was email between Obama and Bill Ayres that was open for all to examine, or between Obama and Hugo Chavez, or Obama and some Middle Eastern head of state, say from Iran maybe. Would Cole be telling us about the “loveable scamps” who hacked Obama’s email?

    Come to think of it, didn’t Ayres and Dohrn beat the rap for bombing and killing innocent people because a government agency invaded their privacy? Yeah, I beleive Bill Ayres was free to arrange for his protege Barrak Obama to get started in Chicago politics and become a candidate for POTUS largely as a result of illegal snooping.

    Ropelight (b9f273)

  48. Phil –

    Listen, if we don’t have people snooping through Palin’s e-mail, how can we be sure she’s not secretly a terrorist sympathizer?

    — Aw, look at you. Did you make a little joke? Good for you. And of course, like all good jokes it has a basis in reality, because you know that conservative hackers have been trying to get the inside story on the Messiah for months now. I mean there’s all this evidence of their attempts at hacking that you are ready, willing, and able to provide for the rest of us to see. . . .

    Any time now.

    Hello? Phil?

    Icy Truth (b8f405)

  49. Ah, c’mon, Icy. You know that we Right Wing Conspiracy types would hack into Senator Obama’s e-mails….except we aren’t smart enough and care too much about money instead of intellectual issues.

    We are bitter and cling to our guns.

    Eric Blair (81e599)

  50. That last bit was your straight line, Icy.

    Eric Blair (81e599)

  51. You know that we Right Wing Conspiracy types would hack into Senator Obama’s e-mails….except we aren’t smart enough and care too much about money instead of intellectual issues.

    — I thought it was because we don’t know how to use a computer, and are therefore not qualified to lead.

    [BTW, between the “McCain’s old and out of touch” ad, and Biden’s “guy in a wheelchair” gaffe, it’s been a hell of a week for Bambi with the elderly and the disabled. Remind me, do they tend to vote in large numbers?]

    Icy Truth (b8f405)

  52. Sorry if that wasn’t a zinger. It really works well only when someone who doesn’t know what they’re talking about feeds me the straight line.

    Icy Truth (b8f405)

  53. Icy…
    You’re always good for a chuckle first thing in the morning.
    Good on yeh, mate!

    Another Drew (c78d34)

  54. Tanksalot! 😉

    Icy Truth (b8f405)

  55. The Palin e-mail story has set off the libtards again. In my inbox is a daily technology newsletter. Today it led with the Palin email story. I took a look at the comments. Mass insanity. The people who read these newsletters are probably tech workers, many of them a step above minimum wage. It’s amazing to see not only the rage but the spreading of inaccurate rumors. She has really pushed the buttons of thousands of lefties.

    Even Olbermann is spreading the crap. I’m not surprised at his antics but the crudity of the attacks is amazing.

    It’s like they were all visited by a spaceship that made them obsessed, like “Close Encounters.” Maybe that’s it. They are possessed by aliens.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  56. Even Olbermann is spreading the crap.

    — Well, when his diaper falls off, and he’s trapped inside his crib, and he’s feeling his artistic muse . . . he’s got to paint with something.

    Icy Truth (b8f405)

  57. Hate to break this to you guys, but 4chan are seriously Republican leaning.

    🙂

    And we should take your word for it because…?

    🙂

    Jim Treacher (592cb4)

  58. Hacking into email accounts…….. I hate it when Democrats act like Republicans.

    Oiram (983921)

  59. Oiram…
    You don’t do satire well.

    Another Drew (c78d34)

  60. Another Drew……. only because you don’t agree with me.

    That’s o.k…….. throw me in the “elitist” camp if you like.

    Oiram (983921)

  61. People who look into Palin’s email files should look into ethics 101 instead.

    On that note……….. How about this one Another Drew:

    How do you know when McCain is lying?

    When Palin’s lipstick is moving.

    Oiram (983921)

  62. Allright……. time to be a bi-partisan satirist Another Drew.

    How do you know when Obama is lying?

    Wait for Biden to plaguerize him.

    Oiram (983921)

  63. …and, how can you tell when Joe Biden will lie?

    When someone speaks in the House of Commons.

    Another Drew (c78d34)

  64. It would help if Mario was funny.

    You know how to cut Baracky’s nuts off?
    Punch Olberdouche in the jaw.

    JD (41e64f)

  65. OK, Oiram, when did a Republican hack into a Democrat’s email account?

    Rob Crawford (b5d1c2)

  66. How do you know when McCain is lying? When Palin’s lipstick is moving.
    — Oh, very good. You’ve shown that you can cut-and-paste a joke that’s at least eight days old.

    How do you know when Obama-bin-Lyin’? The teleprompter is turned on.

    Icy Truth (b8f405)

  67. #65 Hey Rob,
    Ever hear about Watergate?

    No email in those days, but you don’t think they would of done it?

    Richard Nixon was a Republican last time I checked.

    Oiram (983921)

  68. #66 ICY, I swear, I know it looks like I cut and paste that joke, but I just came up with it. I’m not saying I’m the first though. It’s just an obvious joke.

    Oiram (983921)

  69. #64 JD, I noticed the dyslexia doesn’t affect your sense of humor.

    Funny One JD.

    Look, though it all….. if we can’t laugh for a moment at all this, we’re truly doomed…… no matter who takes office.

    Oiram (983921)

  70. #65
    Click here for one example. Click here for a recent intrusion affecting both.

    Sometimes we miss the forest for the trees. Which one concerns you the most; Palin, Judiciary or Foreign state getting access?

    voiceofreason2 (10af7e)

  71. #66 “How do you know when Obama-bin-Lyin’? The teleprompter is turned on.”

    Just noticed that one ICY, funny as well 🙂

    We’ll see how funny it is after the debates.

    Oh wait never mind, you guys are going to take 5 well spoken sentences by McCain and plaster them all over your buttons and the so called liberal media.
    You’ll ignore the rest of McCain’s tripe, and of course ignore and or twist what Obama will say.

    Hopefully Americans will get it.

    Oiram (983921)

  72. of course ignore and or twist what Obama will say.

    That would be where we listen to what he says, compare it to what he said before, look at what he’s done and raise an eyebrow because they don’t match?

    Kinda like swiftboating– that’s where you tell uncomfortable truth about a Dem, don’cha know….

    Foxfier (15ac79)

  73. Oiram – It is hard to ignore or twist ummmm uh um uh huh um huh ummmmm gaze towards the heavens ummmm uh huh …

    JD (41e64f)

  74. Foxfier – That is racist.

    JD (41e64f)

  75. — If you try to put a Biden statement on a button, you’ll only have room for the preamble.

    — If you try to put an Obama statement on a button, all you’ll have is “Uh, uh, uh, I — I, uh; see, what we have to, uh, uh, what we have to do is — is — uh –”

    — If you write “would of” instead of “would’ve” just one more time, I swear I’m gonna reach through this screen and —

    Icy Truth (b8f405)

  76. Comment by Icy Truth — 9/18/2008 @ 10:51 am

    Remember, this is the rocket-scientist who has never been able to properly use “there”, “their”, & “they’re”.
    Contractions just ain’t his bag, Man!
    Must have been a birthing issue?

    Another Drew (c78d34)

  77. 71, Oiram,

    Let’s just beat the “Christmas rush” and start ignoring the lies and drivel you post starting now.

    PCD (1df2b5)

  78. #64, JD, it’s another of Obamas admirers, Bill Ayres who says he participates in homosexuality, as a matter of POLITICS. I know, I know, it sounds bizarre, but he included that revelation in his autobiography.

    Seems Ayres is still a passionate practitioner of the Weatherman Organization’s efforts to reformulate sexual relationships. Not much has changed for Ayres since the early 1970s, “Smash Monogamy” was one of the Weatherman slogans. BTW, Ayres doesn’t discriminate against women, he’s into the PC version of polygamy, polyamory, too. He says so himself.

    The Weathermen Organization, with Bill Ayres in the lead position, was founded on the principle of uniting a leadership force of white radicals with the “Black Liberation Movement.” Ayres wanted to combine the money, power, and position of whites with the alienation and violence of angry urban blacks to destroy US Imperialism to achieve a classless world. That’s straight from the horse’s mouth.

    World communism is what the Weathermen wanted, and it is exactly what Bill Ayres is seeking now. Only he’s lowered his expectations a bit, and using different tactics, it’s not rich white college kids sneaking around with guns and bombs this time, handing out sexual services to the likes of Huey Newton and Bobby Seal, but the black church and hate mongering preachers, Middle Eastern money, white guilt, and the Democrat Party and its pandering media elites, all united with a charming bi-racial front man to dupe the voters into delivering the country into the hands of an unrepentant domestic terrorist and his jihadi money men.

    Ropelight (b9f273)

  79. It’s amazing to see not only the rage but the spreading of inaccurate rumors. She has really pushed the buttons of thousands of lefties.

    I admit she’s pushed my buttons. It’s sorta like The Dead Zone by Stephen King. You know where the guy knows that the President is insane and is going to start WWIII.

    I take one look at SP and I see ambition and Armageddon and gossip and small town back stabing and Alaskan Bush Princess bitchiness all wrapped up into one made for TV movie. Just imagine the delicious and spiteful vaginal manipulations she’ll apply on the country as VP every time McCanker needs something to happen for God or the GOP or all those Billionaire CEO’s paying the price for their unmitigated greed and incompetence and arrogance.

    It’ll be like the country’s dealing with non-stop PMS from a girlfriend who never puts out.

    It’ll be four years of economic and governmental blue balls.

    Oh wait, was that sexist?

    Peter (e70d1c)

  80. #76 Hey! I resemble that remark. They’re, I said it.

    Oiram (983921)

  81. I just went to Balloon Head for the first time since this morning, when I posted a message.

    I challenged one Palin-bashing poster’s suggestion that there was “official business” in the account, and said they’re just all pissed that there was no smoking gun within. Then I told Cole that his insistence that “lovable scamps” was sarcasm was lame, noting his only condemnation of the hacker/s came in updates to the thread, but by then he had already breathed fire on McCain, Palin, and Malkin, neither of whom did anything illegal.

    Cole the coward deleted my comment. Not surprising.

    L.N. Smithee (0931d2)

  82. Peter wrote: Oh wait, was that sexist?

    More incomprehensibly idiotic and masturbatory than sexist. But, yeah.

    L.N. Smithee (0931d2)

  83. #77 PCD……… No please, let’s not start ignoring the lies……

    We would have to start with half of Patterico’s original posts.

    Where will we all blog if we don’t read the lies posted here?

    Oiram (983921)

  84. Peter, if you get any more small minded and incoherent you’ll qualify for the laughing academy. Lighten up, have a bloodymary, think positive, put on a happy face, and direvt your feet to the sunny side of the street.

    Sarah Palin is coming to live in your house soon, and remember to be polite.

    Ropelight (b9f273)

  85. Peter could never, even if he tried, understand the values of someone from “fly-over” country.

    Another Drew (c78d34)

  86. I admit she’s pushed my buttons.

    I think we got that. Now take some deep breaths into a brown paper bag (was that racist ?) and calm down.

    You have no idea how idiotic you sound.

    Mike K (f89cb3)

  87. Peter needs to go home to his rent controlled apartment and have a white wine.

    Mike K (f89cb3)

  88. Ya gotta chip away one little piece at a time, Drew. Oiram has already gone through one “conversion” this year — and not for the better. To attempt a baptism in the kool-aid of truth now would be like sprinkling holy water on Amy Winehouse (“It burns! It burns!!!”).

    Confusion on “there”, “their”, & “they’re” seems to be a libtard disease; several of them suffer from it. But “would of” appears to be an Oiram specialty. [Actually, I think he also does “use to” instead of “used to”, but don’t hold me to that.]

    Icy Truth (078dce)

  89. #79 Yeah Peter, even I have to admit what you said was sexist.

    Don’t stoop to their levels.

    There is plenty of problems with the candidate Palin to talk about. Not the Woman Palin.

    Oiram (983921)

  90. Well, Icy. I surely hope he enjoys his time here, as – after calling our host a lier – it might be of short duration.

    Another Drew (c78d34)

  91. Mike K –

    Peter needs to go home to his rent controlled apartment and have a white wine.
    — Don’t you mean “white whine“?

    take some deep breaths into a brown paper bag (was that racist ?)
    Only if the bag has a “forty” of Olde English inside.

    Icy Truth (078dce)

  92. #90, If I am enjoying a short duration….. Let’s all remember that I was called a lier by the host first.

    And If this is my last comment:

    I wish peace to all of you, (and that’s definitely not a lie).

    Oiram (983921)

  93. Another Drew — it might be of short duration

    — Ah, relevance. Take it away, Three Dog Night:

    I won’t ever leave while you want me to stay
    Nothing you could do that would turn me away
    Hanging on every word
    Believing the things I heard
    Being a fool
    You’ve taken my life, so take my soul
    That’s what you said and
    I believed it all
    I want to be with you as long
    As you want me to
    I won’t move away
    Ain’t that what you said?
    Ain’t that what you said?
    Ain’t that what you said?
    Liar, liar, liar
    May I see no night
    May I see no day
    If I ever leave while you want me to stay
    You can believe in me
    I won’t be leaving, I won’t let you go
    Ain’t that what you said?
    Ain’t that what you said?
    Ain’t that what you said?
    Liar, liar, liar

    Icy Truth (078dce)

  94. Oiram – Peter did not stoop to that level, he needed a ladder and an elevator to get there. And that is not our level, it is a level held by those imagined voices in your head.

    JD (41e64f)

  95. – Only if the bag has a “forty” of Olde English inside.

    that reminded me of something. Colt .45 – works every time!

    carlitos (8850b6)

  96. It is like you guys are in a contest to see who can be the most racist.

    JD (41e64f)

  97. It is like you guys are in a contest to see who can be the most racist.

    — If you listen to the liberal pundits, the “winners” of that contest will be the American voters . . . unless Bambi wins.

    Icy Truth (b8f405)

  98. Mario at 83:

    Document that statement, take it back, or go into moderation. I want five documented lies in my last ten posts, or an apology and retraction. You have until I get home tonight.

    I don’t restrict hard blows, but I will restrict unfair ones.

    Patterico (e20225)

  99. Yes, Icy. Because pre-emptively calling me a racist for 15 months is a fine strategy to win friends and influence voters.

    JD (41e64f)

  100. And YES, I meant “unless Bambi wins” both the election and the contest to see who can be the most racist.

    Icy Truth (b8f405)

  101. #86, Mr K, yes, brown paper bags can be racist devices. Ever hear of a “bag party?”

    Brown paper bags are used by light colored Afro-Americans to exclude their darker brothers and sisters from social events. A brown paper bag is taped to the door and guests are required to put their hand on the bag. If their skin color is darker than the bag, it’s sorry, I hear you knockin’ but you can’t come in. Sure, it’s naked racism of a sort, but since it’s in-house racism they keep it quiet.

    Besides, guys named “Smokey” don’t have national organizations to protest against discrimination by lighter colored (black) folks. It’s all whitey’s fault anyway, just a modern example of the old plantation distinction between house slaves and field slaves.

    Ropelight (b9f273)

  102. Ah, c’mon, Icy. You know that we Right Wing Conspiracy types would hack into Senator Obama’s e-mails….except we aren’t smart enough and care too much about money instead of intellectual issues

    You know, all that you need to know about Obama’s leftwing kookery, his socialist/marxist roots, his whacky pastor, his liberal votes, etc. is right there in the public record. … or in Annenberg files that would take months to go through…

    And knuckle-draggers cannot read Obama’s books, cannot investigate his public votes, or bother making doc requests about the Annenberg foundation. Right?

    oh wait … I forgot. “OBAMA NATION” and the rest …
    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2084224/posts

    Corsi, you magnificent bastard, you read his (Obama’s) BOOK!

    Travis Monitor (8d33ce)

  103. Patterico: *SMACK*

    Oiram: Thank you sir. May I have another?

    Icy Truth (b8f405)

  104. #99

    #77
    71, Oiram,

    Let’s just beat the “Christmas rush” and start ignoring the lies and drivel you post starting now.

    Comment by PCD — 9/18/2008 @ 11:12 am

    Patterico,

    Isn’t PCD one of your guest authors?

    If he or she isn’t, then I retract what I said in post #83 with complete apologies.

    Now if PCD is an author here, I suggest moderating on a larger scale than just me.

    Again Peace And Best wishes for everyone here.

    Oiram (983921)

  105. No, Mario, PCD is not a guest poster.

    JD (41e64f)

  106. Peter –

    I take one look at SP and I see ambition and Armageddon and gossip and small town back stabing and Alaskan Bush Princess bitchiness all wrapped up into one made for TV movie.
    — Don’t forget “Caribou Barbie” and “snowbilly”!

    Just imagine the delicious and spiteful vaginal manipulations she’ll apply on the country as VP every time McCanker needs something to happen for God or the GOP or all those Billionaire CEO’s paying the price for their unmitigated greed and incompetence and arrogance.
    — Keep your wet dreams to yourself.

    It’ll be like the country’s dealing with non-stop PMS from a girlfriend who never puts out.
    — Nothing misogynistic here; nope.

    It’ll be four years of economic and governmental blue balls.
    — And if you were talking about Hillary, you would be saying the same thing; yes?

    Oh wait, was that sexist?
    — Oh wait, was that rhetorical?

    Icy Truth (b8f405)

  107. #

    #77 PCD……… No please, let’s not start ignoring the lies……

    We would have to start with half of Patterico’s original posts.

    Where will we all blog if we don’t read the lies posted here?

    Patterico,

    Isn’t PCD one of your guest authors?

    If he or she isn’t, then I retract what I said in post #83 with complete apologies.

    Now if PCD is an author here, I suggest moderating on a larger scale than just me.

    Again Peace And Best wishes for everyone here.

    Comment by Oiram — 9/18/2008 @ 12:05 pm

    Seriously what? Forget what you typed or something? I clearly am seeing you state “We would have to start with half of Patterico’s original posts. Where will we all blog if we don’t read the lies posted here?”

    Then you deflect to saying that you were talking about PCD and not Patterico. WTF? Are you that dishonest, or are you just that stupid?

    G (722480)

  108. Icy – I think Peter Peter was describing his own life. There seemed to be quite a bit of overt hostility towards girlfriends that do not put out and blueballs.

    JD (41e64f)

  109. -108- Sound the alarms! A poll is out not favoring McCain! ZOMG! The party is over, OBAMA HAS WON! It’s OFFICIAL!

    G (722480)

  110. It would seem to me that hacking into someone’s email account and publishing personal information is the kind of thing we should have learned was wrong way back in Kindergarten.

    I am not sure how one can have a reasonable dialogue with anyone who doesn’t agree with that.

    Whether it is wise to use web mail, use two different accounts-one for business and one for personal, etc., etc., are tactical questions which are secondary.

    What specific actions were illegal and/or are possible to prosecute are important issues but also secondary.

    The bottom line seems to be that people who wanted to embarrass Palin didn’t find much, so they just put a load of annoyance and hassle into her life and the lives of her family.

    Re: #99 by Patterico
    Second the motion.
    If anything, our host is too tolerant of rude behavior in his virtual living room.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  111. On a seriously bad note, nominally Republican Senator Chuck Hagel (remember when he was on the “possible” list to be Obama’s VP?) threw Sarah Palin under the bus today.

    His transition to the dark side is complete.

    Icy Truth (b8f405)

  112. #106, and #109.

    Guys, I probably got PCD mixed up with DRJ. Call me stupid if you like G, but it was sincerely a mistake.

    I retract what I said in post #83 with complete apologies Patterico.

    By the way Patterico, please get it right, I’m Oiram, not Mario. I almost ignored your request for an apology on comment #99.

    JD – you can go on calling me Mario……. I know you can’t help it.

    Oiram (983921)

  113. Hacking into someone’s e-mail and publishing whatever is found therein is despicable to say the least.
    However, is it not possible that this is a set up by the McCain camp. To distract from the real issues (the economy, stupid!) and continue to play the victim card for Sarah Palin. I mean, who does this type of thing really help? Obama? Nope! It’s possible that this could have been arranged to once more make it look like Palin is really under attack. The fact that no really, damaging stuff was found in it, gives room for such hypothesis.
    I know. I am misanthropic. I denounce myself. (Walks away with head bowed in shame…)

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  114. love, “I denounce myself” should have been your first — or, in a perfect world, only — sentence.

    Icy Truth (b8f405)

  115. voiceofreason2 — 9/18/2008 @ 10:34 am:

    I don’t condone national security threats like Chinese hacking or hacking into someone’s email for political motives, and I’m glad you agree. What do you think about this 2006 post at Democrats.com that solicits readers to spy on GOP phone calls? It was apparently legal, does that make it okay?

    “The Bush Administration, the Republican Party, and the conservative movement all think it’s perfectly ok for Big Brother Bush to spy on Americans.

    Of course, angry Americans are demanding hearings to stop this spying. But will the Republicans who control the White House and Congress stop their own spying? Of course not – just look at how the White House sabotaged John McCain’s effort to stop torture, even after 90 Senators voted for it.

    So what can we do that will actually stop Big Brother Bush?

    We can turn the tables and start spying on them – thanks to commercially available phone records …”

    Democrats.com promised to reimburse readers who bought records for “an important phone number and discover gold” in the records.

    DRJ (0754ed)

  116. Oiram,

    Even if you “probably” maybe got PCD with DRJ, you still made the claim “No please, let’s not start ignoring the lies…… We would have to start with half of Patterico’s original posts.”

    So now you’re trying to say that you meant “We would have to start with half of PCD’s DRJ’s original posts.

    G (722480)

  117. lovie is right. I blame McCain. And Rove. And Bush. And Katrina. And especially Kyoto.

    JD (41e64f)

  118. #114 – Oreo

    By the way Patterico, please get it right, I’m Oiram, not Mario.

    — It’s like Michael Jackson insisting that he did nothing to change his complexion.

    Icy Truth (b8f405)

  119. Drunken Master – Step away from the bottle.

    JD (41e64f)

  120. Hacking into someone’s e-mail and publishing whatever is found therein is despicable to say the least.However, is it not possible that this is a set up by the McCain camp.

    Lovey – Is it not also possible that Trig is Bristol’s baby? Just asking questions.

    daleyrocks (1ee287)

  121. #108 Lovey2008:

    Palin effect over etc…

    It’s no wonder none of these guys would take my wager that McPain’s lead would be gone by the time the first debate rolled around. It was gone even sooner than that!!

    Oh happy day.

    Regarding my bit of poltical lampooning above (“Blue Balls etc…”). It’s protected speech. You guys have heard about it right? Why is it the Right is always so quick to try and squelch Freedom of speech. Must be their tendency to adhere to strict nationalistic emotions that don’t allow for non-conformity.

    Yeah, those two last sentences are in italics for a reason, first person who figures out why wins a Rush “I’m not a racist” Limabaugh t-shirt.

    As for me not understanding the values of “fly-over country,” you’re wrong. I’ve been dealing with the political choices of flyover country for four decades, and look a the the debacle we’re in now, maybe “flyover country” needs to rethink who its real friends are.

    Peter (e70d1c)

  122. Much more important than Drunken Master’s spew (let’s see him name one law, by statute number, that was broken) is the latest from the Biden Gaffe-Speak Express™.

    In the space of the last three weeks Joe Biden has claimed to be a fan of the Steelers, Packers, Colts, Giants, and Eagles. Not only that, but in the case of the Colts he said “I used to be a Colts fan before they moved to Baltimore.” Whoops.

    Think that’s not important? Remember when Hillary caught flak for claiming to be both a Cubs fan and a Yankees fan?

    Icy Truth (078dce)

  123. Hey, JD. You forgot;
    Alcoholist!
    LMHO!

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  124. DRJ — 9/18/2008 @ 12:52 pm

    DRJ,
    I don’t think much of what they encouraged whether it is legal or not — still unethical in my opinion.
    100 wrongs don’t make a right and what happened to Palin is unethical if not illegal as well.
    I’ve been in the mil/govt side of computer security for over 10 years and have seen many kinds of threats that worry me a lot. (on a side note because of my background the wiretapping and more intrusive measures don’t really bother me — was and is a way of life for those who work with our nation’s defense).
    For this particular incident Palin, like millions of people, didn’t understand how easy it is for someone to hack them. She certainly doesn’t “deserve” what happened — she simply wasn’t well versed in good computer security practices.

    Perhaps I am too jaded about yet one more user goof in protecting their information.

    If you are interested in something that will keep you awake google the term “SCADA vulnerabilities” for power plants and the like.

    voiceofreason2 (10af7e)

  125. Regarding my bit of poltical lampooning above (”Blue Balls etc…”). It’s protected speech. You guys have heard about it right? Why is it the Right is always so quick to try and squelch Freedom of speech.

    — 1) None of us enjoys freedom of speech on this blog. We post by the grace of our host, period. No speech is “protected” here unless Patterico says it is. “Congress shall make no law … abridging the freedom of speech.” Is Patterico an official government body?

    2) Having said all that, where did anyone question your “right” to say what you said? Where did anyone call for your comments to be struck, or for you to go into moderation? It’s bad enough that your comments are so goofy; now you have to manufacture a phony controversy in order to draw more attention to yourself?

    Pathetic.

    Icy Truth (078dce)

  126. #118

    A Democrat apologizes sincerely, tells you he made a mistake. You know he was offended by being called a liar by someone he thought was a contributor to Patterico. And you continue to want to see him moderated and or kicked out?

    Are you really interested in preaching to your own choir here G? Because I’ve gotta tell you when you and Patterico preach to this Democrat, some schooling does go on….. (yes I will admit it).

    I recommend accepting the apology and moving on.

    Oiram (983921)

  127. #127 – Drunken Master

    blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah

    — I’m sorry; What laws did you say were broken?

    Icy Truth (078dce)

  128. I recommend that you stop recommending how other people should react to you.

    Icy Truth (078dce)

  129. Regarding my bit of poltical lampooning above (”Blue Balls etc…”). It’s protected speech. You guys have heard about it right? Why is it the Right is always so quick to try and squelch Freedom of speech. Must be their tendency to adhere to strict nationalistic emotions that don’t allow for non-conformity.

    This is a big fucking joke, right? Do you have any idea what the 1st Amendment provides? Since none of us are the goverment, we will just assume you are a raving lunatic.

    JD (41e64f)

  130. VOR2,

    I don’t think we’re far apart on this, if we’re apart at all. I rank national security threats and foreign government hacking as a far more serious problem than political dirty tricks. And I agree people need to be careful with identity theft and online privacy, which is how I classify the Palin email problem.

    But let’s get real here. Liberal Democrats are the ones who seem to view personal privacy issues as more important than national security interests, as illustrated by issues like FISA. Some commenters here still describe FISA warrants and intelligence-gathering as illegal even though it is legal and Obama even voted to approve it.

    Furthermore, Palin was the victim of hacking into her personal email account. Even if she sometimes used it for government business, apparently nothing important was leaked and most of it seems clearly personal. Identity theft is common these days and while we should all do our best to avoid it, it’s a reality. The point is to try to make sure that, if something is hacked, it doesn’t reveal anything important. Apparently Palin was careful enough that the information released wasn’t sensitive. In other words, she was careful with sensitive information but not as careful with personal or social/government emails. Doesn’t that count for something?

    DRJ (0754ed)

  131. #123
    Lovey – Is it not also possible that Trig is Bristol’s baby? Just asking questions.
    Don’t know. Stuff happens. Do you remember Bree Hodge of the “Desperate Housewives” fame? Played by Marcia Cross. I think it was the Fourth Season. Her daughter got pregnant illegitimately. To protect her from the shame she faked her own pregnancy, while sending her daughter away to an undisclosed place. The plan was to fake her pregnancy and take the baby from the really pregnant daughter as her child, when it was born. It worked.
    Now you must also remember, that was a television series. Not real life. Not sure if stuff like that can work in real life.

    love2008 (1b037c)

  132. 130-#

    #118

    A Democrat apologizes sincerely, tells you he made a mistake. You know he was offended by being called a liar by someone he thought was a contributor to Patterico. And you continue to want to see him moderated and or kicked out?

    Are you really interested in preaching to your own choir here G? Because I’ve gotta tell you when you and Patterico preach to this Democrat, some schooling does go on….. (yes I will admit it).

    I recommend accepting the apology and moving on.

    Comment by Oiram — 9/18/2008 @ 1:39 pm

    Okay, lets review, line by line…

    A Democrat apologizes sincerely,
    (No, you’re trying to re-write what you wrote)

    tells you he made a mistake.
    (By confusing PCD, DRJ and Patterico? Or calling Patterico a liar?)

    You know he was offended by being called a liar by someone he thought was a contributor to Patterico.
    (I do? Huh? So in your ‘defense’ you feel like attacking the host and owner of this site, by stating that half of his posts are lies?)

    And you continue to want to see him moderated and or kicked out?
    (No offense here, but re-read my posts, I’m not calling on you to be moderated or kicked out/banned whatever. Furthermore I’m also not seeking an apology from you, merely pointing out that your apology is insufficient in the way you try to claim PCD (who has one post in this thread) with DRJ, and then mentioning that Patterico is a liar) Honestly, if you can’t tell the difference between PCD and DRJ and Patterico… Do you think it is wise for you to be voting in a presidential election? Just a question.

    G (722480)

  133. 135. Yeah, in real life a girl can’t get pregnant if she’s already pregnant.

    G (722480)

  134. “… is it not possible that this is a set up by the McCain camp…”
    Comment by love2008 — 9/18/2008 @ 12:49 pm

    Nice bit of Stalinist projection there.

    Is it no wonder that your thoughts have been, and probably will continue to be, so discredited?

    Another Drew (c78d34)

  135. If the McCain camp set this up by infiltrating 4chan, they have a little too much time on their hands…

    carlitos (8850b6)

  136. #136 G

    “Honestly, if you can’t tell the difference between PCD and DRJ and Patterico… Do you think it is wise for you to be voting in a presidential election? Just a question.

    How do I read that without laughing?

    *Sigh*
    O.k. G, sorry if I thought you wanted me moderated and or banned from Patterico.

    I honestly made a mistake in thinking PCD was a contributor to Patterico, I remember now DRJ was.
    (I should keep better notes I guess)

    If you think I shouldn’t vote, too bad.

    I will be voting for Obama come November.

    Never been more proud to be an American.

    Oiram (983921)

  137. DRJ,
    I agree with your description about the Liberal democrats irt FISA, etc. I sense that you think I am unsympathetic to Palin. I am sympathetic. I’m just not surprised it happened. As for the type of information she had in the account it is not that dissimilar from what you or I probably have in our mailboxes. The only difference is that you and I are not famous people and security by obscurity is an added layer of protection we have that she doesn’t.(Not sure if that answers your question about counting for something).
    I’ve had my family’s entire medical history (along with 3 million other vets under Tricare)compromised due to poor design in the computer system housing those records. That was no fun as we had to go through the ID theft drill for a couple of years.
    I’d much rather see Obama and McCain get questioned on how they plan to address cybersecurity.

    voiceofreason2 (590c85)

  138. #136
    (I do? Huh? So in your ‘defense’ you feel like attacking the host and owner of this site, by stating that half of his posts are lies?)
    FWIW, G, I don’t think Oiram called Patterico a liar. I believe he meant that most or half of the posts on Patterico’s blogs were lies. He would have said, Patterico’s posts or stories are half lies, if he wanted to call him a liar. But he said,
    We would have to start with half of Patterico’s original posts.

    Where will we all blog if we don’t read the lies posted here

    He seems to be referring to the some of the commenters on Patterico’s blog. Not Patterico himself. Besides, Patterico does not really post stories that often.
    So can we move on?

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  139. 140-

    #

    How do I read that without laughing?
    (Well, how do you think I wrote it?)
    *Sigh*
    O.k. G, sorry if I thought you wanted me moderated and or banned from Patterico.

    I honestly made a mistake in thinking PCD was a contributor to Patterico, I remember now DRJ was.
    (I should keep better notes I guess)

    If you think I shouldn’t vote, too bad.
    (I never made that claim.)
    I will be voting for Obama come November.
    (Good for you)
    Never been more proud to be an American.
    (Good for you)
    Comment by Oiram — 9/18/2008 @ 2:17 pm

    G (722480)

  140. You guys see this in the Wired article on the email invasion?

    “Threat Level was unable to reach the student by phone because his number is unlisted. A person who identified himself as the student’s father, when reached at home, said he could not talk about the matter and would have no comment. The father is a Democratic state representative in Tennessee. Threat Level is not identifying them by name because authorities have not identified any suspects in the case, and the link to the student so far is tenuous.”

    Dan S (636f73)

  141. FWIW, G, I don’t think Oiram called Patterico a liar. I believe he meant that most or half of the posts on Patterico’s blogs were lies. He would have said, Patterico’s posts or stories are half lies, if he wanted to call him a liar.

    Seriously? He flat out called Patterico a liar. Then says he meant PCD or DRJ or whomver he can get away with saying.

    You then say “Patterico’s posts or stories are half lies, if he wanted to call him a liar.” To try to pin that ask calling somebody a liar, which that reads more like he’s telling half lies or partial truths. If you wanna be serious here, he should have said something like “We would have to start with half of Patterico’s guest posts.

    But he said,
    We would have to start with half of Patterico’s original posts.

    Where will we all blog if we don’t read the lies posted here

    He seems to be referring to the some of the commenters on Patterico’s blog. Not Patterico himself. Besides, Patterico does not really post stories that often.
    So can we move on?

    G (722480)

  142. #142, Thanks for the defense Love, but let’s call a spade a spade. I was offended by a comment that I thought was coming from a Patterico contributor and lost my head.

    I don’t think Patterico has ever lied. I do believe Patterico has always tried to tell the truth, but on many occasions has unknowingly failed to do so. Almost all politicians on all sides have probably done this from time to time.

    I’m sure I’ve done it a million times as our heroes in politics have as well.

    Oiram (983921)

  143. However, is it not possible that this is a set up by the McCain camp. To distract from the real issues (the economy, stupid!) and continue to play the victim card for Sarah Palin. I mean, who does this type of thing really help? Obama? Nope! It’s possible that this could have been arranged to once more make it look like Palin is really under attack. The fact that no really, damaging stuff was found in it, gives room for such hypothesis.

    Oh, so you think the fact that it wasn’t successful in uncovering a smoking gun means it must have been designed to fail. Once again, you are putting much, much, much, much too much faith in the intelligence of Karl Rove, et al. He’s not that smart. If he was, Nancy Pelosi wouldn’t be a heartbeat away from being Vice President.

    Maybe you think that Dems are too, too honorable to attempt such a “despicable act.” Let me educate you.

    Newsday, September 22, 2005:

    Two opposition researchers working for Sen. Charles Schumer at the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee obtained copies of a confidential credit report on Maryland’s Republican lieutenant governor, prompting calls for their prosecution.

    In July, committee research director Katie Barge and Lauren Weiner, a junior staffer, used Maryland Lt. Gov. Michael Steele’s Social Security number to get his credit report, according to a Democratic official familiar with the case.

    The committee, which works to elect Democrats to the Senate, has been compiling research on Steele, Maryland’s highest-ranking African-American official, a GOP contender for the U.S. Senate seat to be vacated by Democrat Paul Sarbanes in 2006.

    Barge, a Democratic operative who led the research unit for a liberal media watchdog group run by journalist David Brock before joining the committee in February, reported her actions to the committee’s executive director, J.B. Poersch Jr., within hours. Poersch relayed the information to the U.S. attorney’s office and suspended the pair with pay until Aug. 31, the official said.

    Barge and Weiner resigned earlier this month after an internal investigation. Calls to the FBI, which is probing the case, weren’t returned last night.

    “The lieutenant governor is the victim of identity theft and would like these people prosecuted to the full extent of the law,” Steele’s chief of staff Paul Ellington said. “They posed as him to get his credit report. We’re not going to say they were going to buy a car with the information they got, but a crime was committed.”

    Fraudulently obtaining a person’s credit report is punishable by a maximum of 2 years in prison, according to the federal Fair Credit Reporting Act.

    Phil Singer, a spokesman for the campaign committee, said Schumer, who took over the committee in November 2004 and was chairman when the two staffers were hired, had no knowledge of the actions. “Chuck’s only involvement was to report this matter to the authorities immediately after first learning about it,” Singer said.

    “The DSCC immediately ensured that Mr. Steele’s credit report was not used or disseminated to anyone,” added Singer, who called the matter an “isolated incident.”

    Now, regarding the Palin emails: If the account that someone emailed Michelle Malkin is accurate, the hacker who broke into the account had the intent of inviting others of his ilk to load porn and other stuff INTO her account.

    The idea was that the sea of Anonymous /b/tards would download the emails, upload porn, and cause all manner of mischief.

    We’ve seen what happens when what Palin was crystal clear about something, like praying for the troops; “professional” journalists distort, edit, Dowdify, and just flat-out lie about what she said because the truth about her doesn’t harm her. Imagine what would have happened if the hacker/s were able to upload porn into her account and then insist that they downloaded it from her account. That lie would be around the world before it could be debunked (Judge Kozinski, anyone?) and there would still be partisans (and late-night comedians) determined not to concede she wasn’t a porn freak.

    I’m going to call you an ambulance, Lovey. You’ve cut yourself bloody. Next time, use Occam’s Razor.

    (NOTE: This was written almost two hours ago in response to Lovey’s “McCain did it” post, before the news about “Threat Level” came up.)

    L.N. Smithee (d1de1b)

  144. Palin was using personal email accounts for government business…

    And your evidence for that is, what, exactly? Because from what I’ve read, the facts are otherwise.

    Sure, there was a chin-stroker in the Washington Post about what it might mean if Palin was using a private account for government business. That, apparently, was the underlying motivation for the “hacker” to get into her email.

    Now, what did he find? By his own admission nothing.

    So, again, I’m gonna have to ask you to present your evidence. With links. Oh, and you’ll have to explain why you think elected officials should not have multiple email accounts, given that most states (and the feds, I believe) have laws against using government resources for political purposes.

    Rob Crawford (b5d1c2)

  145. Do you think that love2008 is a Nexus 2, Make-Obama-Supporters-Look-As-Ridiculous-As-Possible Model, fabricated by Karl Rove?

    nk (189a81)

  146. #77 PCD……… No please, let’s not start ignoring the lies……

    We would have to start with half of Patterico’s original posts.
    Where will we all blog if we don’t read the lies posted here?

    Comment by Oiram — 9/18/2008 @ 11:28 am

    love…
    Now, this could be ambiguous; but, that is up to Oiram to explain to our host. If it is not an indictment of P’s posts, then he should have singled out who he meant, when he said it.

    And, @ 2:17 above, he said: “…I remember now DRJ was…”

    I, for one, find it a little difficult to believe that you can confuse PCD with DRJ; unless, of course, you also believe that DRJ is a prevaricator – a precept that no one on this site would accept, and I certainly reject.

    With all that has gone on in the last few weeks, I find it inconceivable that someone could be so dense as to pursue this line of discourse.

    Another Drew (c78d34)

  147. “…Nancy Pelosi wouldn’t be a heartbeat away from being Vice President…”

    L.N….
    I think you misconstrue the languange of the Presidential Succession Act.
    Nancy Pelosi could never succeed to the Office of Vice President unless a vacancy occurred and she was appointed by the President, and confirmed by both Houses of Congress.

    And, Yes! The very thought gives me nightmares during high-noon!

    Another Drew (c78d34)

  148. More on the person who may be the hacker here.

    DRJ (8b9d41)

  149. #150 Another Drew, take it at face value or don’t.

    I’m not going to explain or apologize any further.

    Oiram (983921)

  150. You know DRJ, after reading the link you gave, I am now more convinced this whole thing smells like a rotten fish! Why would the Hacker come out and say all those stuff? How were they able to identify his father as ” The father is a Democratic state representative in Tennessee. “? Why was he so keen on saying “oh I checked it and it was clean?” If trully, he was a leftist intending to expose Palin, why didn’t try to plant some incriminating stuff to make it worth his effort? Call me paranoid. But it sounds fishy? I could be wrong, but is it not possible that this could be a set up, intended to distract from the issues? the failing economy, namely. Is it not possible that this whole stuff is a smokescreen? A charade?

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  151. love2008 wrote:

    How were they able to identify his father as ” The father is a Democratic state representative in Tennessee. “? Why was he so keen on saying “oh I checked it and it was clean?” If trully, he was a leftist intending to expose Palin, why didn’t try to plant some incriminating stuff to make it worth his effort? Call me paranoid.

    OK, you heard the lady! One…two…three!

    P-A-R-A-N-O-I-D-!

    See, this is what happens when you don’t read my posts. Click here.

    L.N. Smithee (0931d2)

  152. My husband use to do stupid stuff like this– the hacker picked her because there was enough information to try it, and he didn’t like her.

    Doesn’t necessarily mean that he hated her enough to frame her.

    That said… Lovy, are you saying, “There was no evidence that she was guilty, so IT MUST BE A SETUP!”?

    Foxfier (15ac79)

  153. Read the link yourself and tell me you don’t smell a rat. I am not saying it is a setup. I am saying it is a possibility. Or don’t you think so?

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  154. Comment by Oiram — 9/18/2008 @ 3:04 pm

    Any explanations or apologies are between you and our host;
    I am but an observer who discourses on what he sees.

    Another Drew (c78d34)

  155. Comment by love2008 — 9/18/2008 @ 4:57 pm

    Occam’s Razor!

    Another Drew (c78d34)

  156. Read the link yourself and tell me you don’t smell a rat. I am not saying it is a setup. I am saying it is a possibility. Or don’t you think so?

    The only thing that smells like a rat around here is you, you oily, two-faced, smarmy freak.

    nk (189a81)

  157. love2008 wrote: Read the link yourself and tell me you don’t smell a rat.

    It will be a wonderful day when we can experience The Smellernet. But seriously folks … yes, I do smell a rat. And I smell a car that the rat drives. And I smell a bumpersticker on that car. And I smell “Obama ’08” on that bumpersticker.

    ((((((Sniff)))))) Zyrtec is great, ain’t it?

    I am not saying it is a setup. I am saying it is a possibility. Or don’t you think so?

    Possibly, it could have been gremlins, as the mean-spirited “home-school kids” skit on SNL suggested.

    L.N. Smithee (0931d2)

  158. AD – I already referenced Occam’s Razor with Lovey. To paraphrase The Princess Bride, I do not think she knows what it means.

    L.N. Smithee (0931d2)

  159. love2008,

    It’s not a set-up. A Democratic Tennessee Representative has confirmed it was his son at the center of this debate and/or investigation.

    DRJ (0754ed)

  160. love2008 is astroturfing. At DailyKos tomorrow:

    A long-time, frequent commenter at the extreme pro-Republican site, Patterico’s Pontifications, raised the very real possibility that the email hacking was a stunt staged by the McCain campaign.

    nk (189a81)

  161. Peter, you’re hilarious. You’re not intimidated in the least by this horde are you?

    I’d like an RSS feed just for Peter’s comments. Is that doable?

    Psyberian (9f6817)

  162. No, Psyberian, we have no way to filter just those who don’t know what they are talking about to you.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  163. Nancy Pelosi could never succeed to the Office of Vice President unless a vacancy occurred and she was appointed by the President, and confirmed by both Houses of Congress.

    Actually, no…

    If the PotUS and VPotUS both died, she would be next in line.

    Then It’s Bryd, actually… *shudder*

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  164. love2008, how far from reality do you intend to go?

    SPQR (26be8b)

  165. …a set-up…a possibility…it smells…

    and, the Moon very well could be made of Green Cheese.

    Do they come by this idocy naturally, or do they have to undergo training to be so fucking dense?

    Another Drew (c78d34)

  166. Yes, Scott…
    If the POTUS, and V-POTUS were both killed/died, the Speaker would become POTUS, but not V-Potus.

    And then, as POTUS, Miss Nancy would appoint someone to become V-POTUS, who would have to be confirmed by Congress.

    The point is, there is not any automatic succession ladder to the Office of the Vice-President, only to the Presidency.

    Another Drew (c78d34)

  167. Go on. Don’t stop! Which part of Occam’s Razor do you want to accept as the truth? And why are you guys afraid of the possibilty that I could be right?

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  168. Just imagine the delicious and spiteful vaginal manipulations she’ll apply on the country as VP every time McCanker needs something to happen for God or the GOP or all those Billionaire CEO’s paying the price for their unmitigated greed and incompetence and arrogance.

    Just say it, girl! BTW, did you see that darling belt in the window at Spare Parts? It’s to die for.

    nk (189a81)

  169. And why are you guys afraid of the possibilty that I could be right?

    Because the only way you could know that is if you are a runaway Karl Rome android.

    nk (189a81)

  170. love2008, Occam is not going to claim you.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  171. NK, nk, nk. ( shakes head) Disturbed little twit, you.

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  172. love2008 is astroturfing. At DailyKos tomorrow:

    A long-time, frequent commenter at the extreme pro-Republican site, Patterico’s Pontifications, raised the very real possibility that the email hacking was a stunt staged by the McCain campaign.

    Comment by nk — 9/18/2008 @ 5:20 pm

    LOLOL

    Watch, it’ll really happen.

    love2008,
    So did Governor Palin purposely “forget” to edit out Bristol’s phone number too, which appeared on the Wed, maybe she purposely gave THAT out too to punish Bristol for embarrassing her, or maybe she was just REALLY STUPID as we all know those “white trash” “sexually inadequate” (yes, a liberal Canadian columnist said that) Alaskan Republicans are and just included the phone number and other private stuff by accident!

    It’s baffling and exasperating that liberals will go on all day with the most insane-sounding theories and smears – anything to make conservatives look bad no matter how unlikely or unreasonable the scenario.

    You sound like Truthers going on about Bush causing 9/11 or Andrew Sullivan going on and on about Trig Palin’s “real mom Bristol.” Just cut it out, unless you want to sound as deranged as those people do. You’re more reasonable than that. Aren’t you?

    no one you know (1ebbb1)

  173. Wed = Web

    no one you know (1ebbb1)

  174. Is Barack Obama a Muslim?

    love2008 (1b037c)

  175. Is Barack Obama a Muslim?

    Comment by love2008 — 9/1

    One way to make absolutely sure he is not, is if he is not circumsized. Can we get pictures?

    nk (189a81)

  176. Is Barack Obama a Muslim?

    Comment by love2008 — 9/18/2008 @ 6:06 pm

    No. But my dear love2008,
    What in the light of day does that question have to do with anything in this thread?

    no one you know (1ebbb1)

  177. One way to make absolutely sure he is not, is if he is not circumsized. Can we get pictures?

    Comment by nk — 9/18/2008 @ 6:09 pm

    Medical records. We want ALL of them! He’s already released those, hasn’t he? Oh wait…

    no one you know (1ebbb1)

  178. *circumcised*

    An additional way is whether Michelle is. The Kenyans do that to their girls, you know. I demand a medical exam.

    nk (189a81)

  179. #179 and 181.
    There you go. What happened to Occam’s Razor? He has said he is not a Muslim. But you still want a picture of his d**k to prove it. Yet you can’t stand the possibility of this whole e-mail thing being a sham. What happened to your probing minds?

    love2008 (1b037c)

  180. love2008, you don’t recognize satire. Evidently because you are one.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  181. Lovy-
    Not only did I read what the kid posted, I talked it over with a former hacker. You might’ve been able to get that idea from my post, if you weren’t busy leaping to conclusions.

    Foxfier (15ac79)

  182. #165 Psyberian:

    Peter, you’re hilarious. You’re not intimidated in the least by this horde are you?

    Nah, not really. They’re mostly alright. I like to keep them on their toes. And they like it too, but they pretend otherwise.

    This place would get boring really quick if it wasn’t for me and Jharp, Oiram and Lovey2008.

    Anyhow, as much as I clearly suffer from Palin Derangement Syndrome(tm), I think hacking into anyone’s email account is waaay wrong.

    Especially someone as lacking in imagination or emotional depth as you-know-who. What a snoozefest her account turned out to be anyway, Zzzzzz…..

    Peter (e70d1c)

  183. love2008, you don’t recognize satire. Evidently because you are one.

    Comment by SPQR — 9/18/2008 @ 6:21 pm

    love2008,
    you know very well that 179 and 181 were satire. You read my “no” at 6:10 pm.

    WHAT IN THE WORLD IS WRONG WITH YOU?! 🙂

    no one you know (1ebbb1)

  184. #183
    Again I have not jumped unto any conclusion. I have been saying, is it not a possibility that this could be staged? No one knows just how far people are willing to go to get what they want. This lad could have been paid to do this and come out and own up. All to cast Palin as flawless and genuine. These are politicians. How can you really trust them? Then again, I could be wrong.

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  185. #185
    WHAT IN THE WORLD IS WRONG WITH YOU?!
    Nothing. I am ok, Princess. Where have you been? Missed your mild and friendly comments. Just like DRJ. 😉

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  186. Here are some possibilities:

    1. An older girl could have paid a younger boy to steal a cookie out of the cookie jar and him fess up to it to make herself look angelic in comparision
    or
    a little boy stole a cookie.

    2. Bush could have arranged 9/11 then a massive coverup involving all three branches of the federal government plus fire not melting steel, then invade Iraq just ‘cuz he thinks it’s fun to be evil
    or
    terrorists flew planes into buildings.

    3. Governor Sarah Palin outed her own email address, including some personal phone numbers of family and other info, her personal emails are all over the Net but she paid somebody to do it to make herself look good, actually she’s corrupt to the bone but she picked out all the emails where she brags about strangling bunnies and having five affairs first (but missed editing out her daughter’s cellphone number)
    or
    Some jerk who admits he was looking for dirt on her, hacks into her email account.

    All six of these are possibilities.

    To paraphrase George Orwell, some possibilities are more possible than others.

    no one you know (1ebbb1)

  187. Where have you been?
    Comment by love2008 — 9/18/2008 @ 7:21 pm

    My last comment may not seem so friendly. 🙂 But I trust you get the point. love2008. To answer your question, have been extra busy with work and grad school. But I lurk fast and have seen you around.

    no one you know (1ebbb1)

  188. Or NOYK, Bush did go to war on false pretext. He had nothing to do with 9/11. Suggesting it is preposterous. But he authorized a war on false claims that were proven false on the ground. He said Saddam had WMDs. He didn’t. He said he was tied to AQ. He wasn’t. He said the war would be over within months. It didn’t. (though, won’t take it out on him. Wars can be unpredictable) Was Saddam a saint? Not a bit. Did he deserve to die? Maybe.
    So is it impossible to think that this e-mail stuff could have been staged? You tell me.

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  189. I wish that responsible, sane people would quit linking to the jerk that John Cole has become.

    physics geek (998903)

  190. noyk, so nice to see you commenting again. The entire lovey possibilities re email hacking…are simply Orwellian. Sigh.

    Dana (213b94)

  191. noyk, so nice to see you commenting again. The entire lovey possibilities re email hacking…are simply Orwellian. Sigh.

    Comment by Dana — 9/18/2008 @ 7:55 pm

    Always nice to see your posts too, even if no one knows I’m enjoying them. Can’t figure why love2008 can’t seem to get the concept of Occam’s Razor.

    love2008,
    Most of the civilized world not only believed but knew Saddam had WMDs (he’d used them on the Kurds, remember?) and intelligence (now known to be faulty but accepted bipartisanly at the time) said he still had them (that is, had not hidden, moved or disposed of them in some way). This is all pretty well known and am surprised to see you arguing in this way.

    no one you know (1ebbb1)

  192. love2008, paranoid schizophrenia is no way to go through life.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  193. #194
    You should know about that shouldn’t you? Inmate.

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  194. #193 no one you know:

    surprised to see you arguing in this way.

    Its not arguing, its prevaricating. It knows that literally hundreds of WMDs of a single class alone have been recovered since our entry into Iraq. It knows that Saddam was inextricably linked to al Qaeda by documents recovered since our entry into Iraq. We did not go to war with Iraq over “false pretenses,” we went to war with the then government of Iraq because they were aiding and abetting terrorists and were in violation of terms imposed by the UN for over a decade.

    Its not “arguing,” its lying.

    EW1(SG) (36ff49)

  195. love2008, no, I don’t really have any first hand knowledge of your condition.

    That’s your paranoia speaking.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  196. EW1(SG) –
    You beat me to it!

    Foxfier (15ac79)

  197. #197
    Ok. Since I am lying, be honest enough to provide evidence that you are not the one lying. Links please. Or I will be forced to call you a liar. Prove that Saddam was linked to AQ. Prove that WMDs were found there. Enough to justify an invasion of a sovereign nation. Prove it!

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  198. Enough to justify an invasion of a sovereign nation

    We *already* had justification, because he violated the “we won’t kick your a@@ if you do these things” agreement we had before, with the inspection teams.

    Foxfier (15ac79)

  199. Wow, all this partisan bickering over nonsense. This is simply nonsense and this is why this country is fucked at the moment. You guys just don’t get it. It’s like you are picking your favorite sports team here, on something that has nothing to do with either campaign. This guy did this because he was bored, its a felony but honestly not that big of a deal. 4Chan and similar forums have similar subforums just like /b/. Why would a forum do that? Because they realize that people are bored and want to be retards on the internet so they give them a place to be a retard with other retards. So it turns to one big retard shitfest that noone that reads these forums take seriously. This kid was wrong for invading her privacy, but seriously is it that big of a deal. If anything it helped her out, because now all of the dumbasses out there can play the blame game and attribute it to her competition. Im not an avid visitor of 4chan, but this is so transparent that anyone should be able to see this in my mind. This shouldn’t be a “conservative” or a “liberal” thing. Get over the labels jesus. He was looking for dirt, just like any other drama queen. If anything they brought a glaring security problem to the eyes of the public. Just get over yourselves and your political affiliations in the grand scheme of things its not that big of a deal.

    lewltastic (28f68d)

  200. #202,

    Wow, all this partisan bickering over nonsense.
    — Crime is nonsense, is it?

    This is simply nonsense and this is why this country is fucked at the moment.
    — We’re fucked because of nonsense? Well, since we’ve established that nonsense is crime, maybe you’re onto something.

    You guys just don’t get it.
    — Yeah we do. We just don’t have to pay for it.

    It’s like you are picking your favorite sports team here, on something that has nothing to do with either campaign.
    — Tell that to the leftards who keep squawking, “she’s stupid; she shouldn’t have been doing government business with that account.”

    This guy did this because he was bored,
    — Know him personally, do you?

    its a felony but honestly not that big of a deal.
    — Just like most felonies. “Boys will be boys, judge?” – Bart Simpson

    This kid was wrong for invading her privacy, but seriously is it that big of a deal.
    — Ever had your privacy invaded?

    If anything it helped her out, because now all of the dumbasses out there can play the blame game and attribute it to her competition.
    — Not officially; and what’s dumb about the most likely scenario?

    Im not an avid visitor of 4chan, but this is so transparent that anyone should be able to see this in my mind.
    — Give us a profile shot so we can shine the flashlight through the holes.

    This shouldn’t be a “conservative” or a “liberal” thing.
    — Correct. The liberals should be just as outraged as the conservatives. Funny that they aren’t, huh?

    Get over the labels jesus.
    — Don’t tell the Savior what to do!

    He was looking for dirt, just like any other drama queen.
    — I thought that’s what gossips do. Since when are gossips automatically drama queens?

    If anything they brought a glaring security problem to the eyes of the public.
    — Just like when a cop-killer illuminates a weakness in police procedure.

    Just get over yourselves and your political affiliations in the grand scheme of things its not that big of a deal.
    — Everybody Wang Chung Tonight!

    Icy Truth (f6198c)

  201. Wow, dude just wow. You still don’t seem to get it do you. It’s always a us against them mentality. I can see why you vote how you vote. Heres a little advice, not everything in life is black and white. Only Barrack Obama right? Anyways, you don’t seem to see the gray area in life. You are so blinded by stupid inane shit. There is a winner and a loser, there is a good and a bad guy. There is this there is that. That’s a retarded way to view there world. It seems like the view of someone who doesn’t ask questions. “Crime is nonsense, is it?” No some crimes this specific crime, is nonsense and really isn’t important in the grand scheme of things. How about this, sit back sometime and ask yourself some questions. You don’t have to answer them just ask some questions as soon as you go into judgment mode. Just ask yourself, why is there only 2 parties representing people of America? Surely, 2 parties can’t completely represent the beliefs as 95 percent of individuals in this nation. Once again its like your favorite football team and someone is insulting your star player. You have to defend that team because you feel by them attacking your team they are indirectly attacking you. Lets agree on this we all want the same outcome we just disagree how to get there. I’ll admit I am “left” leaning on social issues. While being fiscally conservative. However, I will be voting for Barrack because fundamentally I don’t like what Palin and Mccain stand for. I don’t like the fact that we need to DRILL, BABY, DRILL instead of searching and funding something that will help us in the long run. I also don’t like the fact that we need to spread our influence by the sword, or in this case m-16s and missles. Obama seems to be a good speaker and in that same note a rather diplomatic person. However, since there is only 2 real candidates for the executive office, I’ll choose one in which seems to provide atleast a glimmer of hope. To sum it up, I want someone who is diplomatic, caring, progressive in both economics and foreign policy (BUT HE HAS NO EXP OMG) and best of all has some sense of good character. Mccain present none of the above to me, although he might be able to accomplish what we all want his tactics don’t appeal to me. I don’t want a president who jokes about bombing Iran, I don’t want a “maverick’, this isn’t the wild fucking west. I don’t want someone who will pull this country up by its bootstraps (LOL, BOOTSTRAPS) and offer a new perspective to the country. Tell me who represents the “american dream” to you. Now, Palin, she seems full of shit. Biden seems more like a sarcastic asshole to me, which i can relate to. Am I the only one that seems an ulterior motive to drilling in ANWR(the only issue i’ve actually heard her not beat around the bush about) when your husband is a Oil Field Manager for BP? She says she promotes other alternative energy to pry us from our oil addiction, yet she really wants to drill. How about instead of elliminating our dependence on foreign oil we eliminate our dependence on all oil. Barrack seems to be looking for a catalyst to transform the nation. Enough of my rant though, just my thoughts on the matter and yes I am slightly partisan, but truth be told if Ron Paul was given a fair shot he would have my vote in a heartbeat.

    lewltastic (28f68d)

  202. lewltastic –
    I was working this weekend, so didn’t get to respond…

    So I’ll keep this short.

    Troll much?

    Foxfier (15ac79)

  203. Ah, I figured the stereotypical Paultards would drink the Dalibama’s kool-aid and go over to the dark side. Thanks lewltastic, your drooling reassures me that the world still has oodles of idealistic, illogical progressive assclowns. That’s what the country needs- more of the Chicago way, American Gangster on a national scale with the media playing the role of the NYC drug enforcement crooked cops licking Obama’s ass.

    madmax333 (0c6cfc)


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