Patterico's Pontifications

9/14/2008

Could Obama Replace Biden With Hillary and, if so, Would She Take It?

Filed under: 2008 Election — DRJ @ 10:02 pm



[Guest post by DRJ]

I spent months wondering if Obama and Clinton would run together on a unity ticket. If they had, I think they would have been hard to beat, no matter who was at the top of the ticket. Since there have been some surprises in this election, let’s consider one more:

What if Obama asks Biden to step aside so he can bring Hillary onto the ticket?

Based on Biden’s comments last week, he’s already considered this “What if” question. I assume there is a process where a Democratic VP-designate could be replaced on the ticket since it happened with McGovern-Eagleton, but I haven’t verified that under current Party rules.

In my opinion, it would make Obama look foolish to dump Biden and Obama doesn’t seem like the type who likes to look foolish. In addition, there’s a reason Hillary was never on Obama’s short list of VP candidates. Up to now, Obama apparently thinks he doesn’t need or want the Clintons and the closer we get to the debates, the less likely it becomes that Obama will switch VPs.

Further, I doubt Hillary would say yes even if she had the chance to be Obama’s VP. I think McGovern was turned down by a handful of Democrats before he settled on Eagleton and today’s Democrats may feel the same way. For Hillary in particular, it’s better if Obama loses so she can run again in 2012 although perhaps she would reconsider the VP slot if it positions her as the clear heir apparent.

So where do you think Obama and his advisers are on their VP choice?

— DRJ

50 Responses to “Could Obama Replace Biden With Hillary and, if so, Would She Take It?”

  1. So where do you think Obama and his advisers are on their VP choice?

    Who knows, all over the ball park, but I think they would look extremely desperate if they did it. She might help him; OTOH most people I think are for Palin because she is a reformer, not a female reformer.

    Patricia (ee5c9d)

  2. Here’s what The Charter & The Bylaws of the Democratic Party of the United States Article Two, Section 7(C) says about how Barack Obama would go about choosing another running mate at this point in the general election:

    Section 7. Meetings.
    (c) Special meetings of the National Committee may be held upon the call of the Chairperson with the approval of the Executive Committee with reasonable notice to the members, and no action may be taken at such a special meeting unless such proposed action was included in the notice of the special meeting. The foregoing notwithstanding, a special meeting to fill a vacancy on the National ticket shall be held on the call of the Chairperson, who shall set the date for such meeting in accordance with the procedural rules provided for in Article Two, Section 8(d) of these Bylaws.

    LaMano (fcd61d)

  3. It will not happen. One thing that Sen. Messiah Barack is very, very stubborn. He still can not bring himself to admit that the surge in Iraq is working and that it was wrong to vote against it. Also, I sense that Sen. Messiah Barack is just a bit of a misogynist. There is the giving St. Hillary the bird in a not-so-subtle manner. There is the infamous calling the female reporter “sweetie”. And the fact that Sen. Messiah Barack never even vetted her for a possible second spot on the Democrat ticket. And, St. Hillary has no reason to jump on the Titanic at this point. She will ride it out and wait to run again in 2012.

    Mark J. Goluskin (56a0a8)

  4. I agree. Too much bad blood between Shillary and The Obamessiah.

    thebronze (90b755)

  5. So where do you think Obama and his advisers are on their VP choice?

    Nowhere. The Obama campaign is in a centripetal spiral which it will not escape. Everything it will do from now on will be only to bring the faithful closer to The One until he is immolated outside the Bunker.

    nk (d681ef)

  6. I don’t think he could bring himself to admit error. He is like Carter in this way.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  7. Not in Hillary’s interest to do so.

    1) She wants the CIC position.

    2) Why sink with the Obama campaign, when you can wave from the dock and live to campaign another day? (although it’ll be harder the second time around, her clock having been cleaned by an amateur)

    Apogee (366e8b)

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    paul (6f241a)

  9. Picking Biden was supposed to be a sign of BO’s good judgment. I don’t think he can change now.

    Rob (23fe76)

  10. Would Hillary take it? Absolutely not. She would not have accepted even if she had been asked initially, but she did want to be asked. Given that, it’s probably smart that he did not ask or even vet her. If he had vetted her and then not asked, everyone would be wondering what the vetting turned up and would lose focus on Obama himself; if he had asked and she turned him down, which is what I believe she would have done, then the public would see her as having no confidence that he could win. The only way he could have asked would be if he knew ahead of time that she would say YES; obviously this was not the case.

    Icy Truth (7b38bb)

  11. Have all of you seen last night’s SNL skit with Sarah and Hillary?

    Warning: Do not play it in front of your six-year old unless you want to explain the difference between a MILF and a boner-shrinker.

    nk (d681ef)

  12. Why would Obama start admitting mistakes now? It’s out of character for him.

    Bad Judgement He Will Stick With!!!!

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  13. Apogee wrote:
    Not in Hillary’s interest to do so.
    (although it’ll be harder the second time around, her clock having been cleaned by an amateur)

    I agree with you except for that last part about her having her clock cleaned. In pledged delegates at RCP, it was Obama 1766.5 to Clinton 1639.5 with 2,118 Needed to Win with the Super delegates putting him over the top. The way the dem primary is set up with the caucuses, Obama got off to a lead and she couldn’t make up the difference.

    What will really be interesting is how Hillary will ruthlessly destroys anyone who could challenge her over the next 4 years. She won’t be making the Obama mistake again.

    liontooth (0edfdb)

  14. Where are they on their VP choice? Stuck – on stupid.

    There are any number of reasons NOT to have picked Hillary, but Biden is the sort of choice one might make if the only goal of the pick was not to lose the election with it.

    He doesn’t help with any state (Delaware last went Republican 20 years ago) or any particular constituency, and his “experience” factor is decidedly a mixed bag (as is his long-established tendency to put his foot in his mouth, and elaborate on the texture). Biden is the guy you pick if the election is in the bag and you want to play it very, very safe.

    Oops.

    But the comments above are entirely correct: no way on Earth Obama admits his mistake and tries to fix it now. Even if he weren’t an egomaniac with a Messianic complex, such a move so late in the game would be more likely to backfire than help.

    Adjoran (0ccad5)

  15. I think with a McCain presidency she’s just better positioned. I think there’s pretty well no way that McCain runs again, and Hillary is pretty safely nominated next time around I think.

    With Obama a) they could potentially still lose, since choosing here would be a last resort, and b) 8 years is a long time and a Dem Congres and Dem Executive does not bode well for her electability at that point. And it’s 8 years. And they hate each other.

    Morgan (b1ed55)

  16. I hope and pray BHO chooses to be stubborn. But, if he wises up and chooses HRC, I see no way she could turn him down.

    If they win, she is a VP. If they lose, she is the good soldier who tried to wring victory from defeat.

    If she refuses, she would never be forgiven her selfishness. Never.

    Ed (f35a20)

  17. In private discussion she’ll commit to being on the ticket, Biden will step down, then Hillary won’t answer Obama’s calls and deny every having talked to The One. Bill gets the last laugh.

    bob (0a20cb)

  18. Its in the bag – Hillary 2012.
    She will not accept a VP spot now and spoil her shot at the next cycle.

    Perfect Sense (9d1b08)

  19. Hillary made a great argument that she could beat Mccain and Obama could not. She made that powerful speech, and Bill gave a good one too, at the convention.

    And if Mccain wins with a female Veep, identity politics voters will realize even further how Hillary was right: she was the winning ticket. I think her loss could be attributed to caucus tricks and the general stupidity of the dem primary system. Hillary’s stock will rise when Mccain wins.

    Mccain needs powerful democrats to get anything done, and he’s willing to compromise with those who want to boost their profile. Hillary is going to be at the front of that line, getting concessions from Mccain on health care or what not (I’m not happy about it, but it’s true). In 2012, she will run as someone who gets stuff done.

    Juan (4cdfb7)

  20. Possible alternatives:
    Sargent Shriver
    Ted Kennedy
    John Edwards
    Geraldine Ferraro
    Adm. James Stockdale
    Harold Stassen
    Lyndon LaRouche
    Howard Dean
    Howard Beale Lou Dobbs
    Michelle Obama

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  21. liontooth #13 – you’re right. I didn’t communicate my idea. It was a very close race, and I meant that it was Hillary’s nomination to lose. It shouldn’t have been close at all.

    It’s a strategic mistake, and one she won’t make again, but when you’re a political party like the Dems and you’re paying large sums to get results, candidates who make strategic errors need a second look before getting a second chance.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  22. DRJ asked:

    So where do you think Obama and his advisers are on their VP choice?

    Worried.

    The male Dana (3e4784)

  23. “What about Eagleton?”
    “He passed away last year”
    “So? We’re talking about Chicago politics here”.

    rhodeymark (6231e5)

  24. If Barack Hussein Obama replaces Joseph Biden with Hillary Clinton at this point, he might as well just have FIGUREHEAD! tattoed across his forehead. I think that he’s smart enough to realize this.

    And you have to consider that, doing so at this point doesn’t somehow guarantee Mr Obama a win. He could have selected the lovely Mrs Clinton before the convention, as she was the runner-up. But to dump Mr Biden to put Mrs Clinton on the ticket now would be saying that she’s there solely for her genetalia; I’m thinking that a lot of women would be outright insulted.

    And talk about the last surge at re-energizing the Republican base! Sarah Palin’s unexpected selection did that once, and adding a hated Clinton to the ticket would do it a second time! 🙂

    The male Dana (3e4784)

  25. “But to dump Mr Lieberman to put Mrs Palin on the ticket now would be saying that she’s there solely for her genetalia; I’m thinking that a lot of women would be outright insulted.”

    lez be honest ’bout this: change we can believe in….

    datadave (eb12a5)

  26. “But to dump Mr Lieberman to put Mrs Palin on the ticket now would be saying that she’s there solely for her genetalia; I’m thinking that a lot of women would be outright insulted.”

    lez be honest ’bout this: change we can believe in….

    Comment by datadave — 9/15/2008 @ 4:11 am

    I’m a woman and could give two hoots about Governor Palin’s gender. Her positions and experience are what I care about. Lieberman would have depressed the heck out of me. With Governor Palin on the ticket, I’m psyched and rarin’ to go.

    And, since you obviously want us to “be honest,” the fact that you are looking solely at the gender difference between Sen. Lieberman and Gov. Palin, and not at all at the significant differences between these two VP possibles, tells me a lot about YOUR sexism, though.

    no one you know (1ebbb1)

  27. Should have added: Gov. Palin’s character, also a crucial factor. Nothing wrong with Sen. Lieberman’s character. But if McCain had picked a candidate with good positions and experience but rotten character, Republicans wouldn’t be as excited as they are now, I guarantee it.

    no one you know (1ebbb1)

  28. Were this to happen, I would laugh for weeks.

    JD (5f0e11)

  29. Palin’s character? a serial Liar about the Bridge to Nowhere that she campaigned for and she endorsed and number one Governor for earmarks per citizen. Her comments that Obama would raise everyone’s taxes while ignoring that McCain will raise worker’s taxes on all employee medical benefits resulting in the biggest tax increase for workers in decades (while cutting taxes for the billionaires yet again). Check out McCain/Palin’s fiscal conservatism…it’s not there.

    datadave (eb12a5)

  30. No one you know – Leftsts like datadave are just projecting their sexism onto everyone else.

    JD (5f0e11)

  31. In one case the Obama ticket is unpopular, in the other it is proven to be indecisive. No, I don’t think they are worried about losing Delaware.

    Either way Obama will walk away with only about a dozen states plus DC.

    Amphipolis (fdbc48)

  32. This is another familiar refrain from dataless. He likes to try to define, or redefine, terms like fiscal conservatism. To suggest that the myriad of spending that Baracky would bring to the table is somehow more palatable than McCain is simply laughable.

    JD (5f0e11)

  33. Me sexist? Sexualist, more like it. Palin reminds me of a very nice g/f from decades ago. Funny, she just called me out of the blue yesterday. I didn’t want to be rude and tell her how much she looks like …tina fey.

    She’s pretty, She’s smart, She’s not ready….ooooooooh how Disrestpectful!!! Note that McCain’s ad made sure it was about Obama, black man, calling Palin, all those things and “lipstick” (in case you didn’t get it..the pig was McCain…but McCain choose to emphasize Obama’s blackness juxtaposed with the innocent Palin-Liar.)

    Being a Liar is an equal gender characteristic. Palin might just be McCain’s Bridge to Nowhere.

    datadave (eb12a5)

  34. forgot the question above: No, and No. Ain’t gonna happen, sink or swim for Obama.

    Michelle though might be a better choice. She can kick ass.

    datadave (eb12a5)

  35. The foregoing notwithstanding, a special meeting to fill a vacancy on the National ticket shall be held on the call of the Chairperson, who shall set the date for such meeting in accordance with the procedural rules provided for in Article Two, Section 8(d) of these Bylaws.

    Yeah, but they have to have that opening first… I wonder what Pres. Clinton and Sen. Obama talked about on the 11th…

    a serial Liar about the Bridge to Nowhere that she campaigned for and she endorsed and number one Governor for earmarks per citizen.

    Of cource you would go for “per citizen”… How about overall totals? Where does she rank in that?

    Sen. Dick Durbin of illinois has $350 Million alone… Obama has, in but a few short years, close to a billion… Where’s Gov. Palin rank with that, eh?

    She’s pretty, She’s smart, She’s not ready

    Funny… isn’t “pretty and smart” pretty much all Obama has to claim for why HE is ready?

    And you just keep forgetting… She isn’t the Presidential canidate. McCain is.

    I know it drives you nuts, but try to remember that, ‘kay?

    Being a Liar is an equal gender characteristic.

    *yawn* You keep saying she’s a liar, and keep point to “Bridge to Nowhere”… Which was a campaign issue, and then never once supported by her as Gov.

    So, I was just wondering…

    What else yuo got to base that “liar” label on? Because I bet you money I could find a few doozies from Obama in just the past year.

    Scott Jacobs (a1c284)

  36. So far its pretty clear that Palin’s honesty exceeds datadave’s.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  37. “under current Party rules”

    When have the rules really mattered to the Democratic party? We have an excellent example of how important the the Dems consider the party rules just this year. Remind me again what the Democratic party rules said about moving their primary dates up to try and increase the state’s influence?

    Breaking the rules has never been important to the Democrats unless it is a Republican doing it.

    Jay Curtis (8f6541)

  38. “She can kick ass.”

    The only ass Michelle kicks is her husband’s – repeatedly. Why do you think she’s basically been drugged and locked in the closet over the past few months? She can’t handle any dissenting voices to her meme of victimhood, regardless of how many incongruent designer outifts she wears all around town here. That woman is worse PR for Obama than Therese Heinz Kerry was for her husband, and that’s really saying something.

    Dmac (e639cc)

  39. If she becomes certain that they’ll lose, then she’d accept it, because it positions her for next time. But the last thing she wants is to be President Obama’s vice president; if she thinks there’s any chance of Obama becoming president, then she wants to be on the outside pissing in.
    She wants him to have 3 years in which to mess up and lose the shine, so she can challenge him in the 2012 primaries just as Kennedy did to Carter.

    Milhouse (89df7f)

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    WillNotBeFooledByObamaNATION (c62648)

  41. I think it hilarious that this is even being discussed. Today there is an item about Biden’s plane being empty of reporters. Maybe they started the rumor so somebody will notice he’s still breathing.

    Mike K (f89cb3)

  42. Isn’t it just precious how “datadave” responded to being labeled a sexist by playing the race card?

    Icy Truth (33a0bd)

  43. I think it would further diminish Obama’s “change” mantra — he wanted to distance himself from the Clintons as a way of showing he’s not like Washington insiders (although choosing Biden doesn’t help either in this regard, but Biden is in no way as influential as the Clintons).

    Having her on the ticket implodes completely his idea that he’s different politically.

    Richard Romano (b96fd9)

  44. Not to mention his “judgment” mantra.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  45. What people seem to be missing here is that is Biden steps down it will be because of “health or family issues” Obama won’t look like the one who asked him to step aside. I think this is coming.
    I don’t know exactly when. But it is coming.

    eric (52f66d)

  46. The reason why Barak houssein didn’t chose Hillary was because he was afraid he would be rubbed out (white watered) by the Clintons, leaving her as President and now it seems the only way he could win is to choose her…Either way he seems cursed. He wants to win bad enough and is spending more money than God to get that accomplished. They will replace Biden with Hillary.

    Jo (0c67dd)

  47. Biden is a perfect politician – experienced, intelligent, wise. But that’s it. When Palin came to stage, and “PalinMania” started, Biden became invisible. So rumors claim, that Biden will officially “resign because of health problems”, and Obama will invite Hillary to join his fight against Palin. Because she, and no longer McCain, is Obama’s biggest problem now. http://www.votetheday.com/polls/obama-is-dumping-biden-269

    votetheday.com (4f79c7)

  48. I wish he does pick Hillary, because it would be political suicide for the Democrats. This was tryed once before in 1972 McGovern dumped Eagleton for Shriver, and got blown out of the water.

    Steve (306fdd)

  49. If obama loses in 2008, blacks will vote for sarah palin in 2012 not hillary clinton

    mary (c36902)

  50. Why do you always seem to be comparing Palin and Obama? Palin isn’t running for president but I think she has more experience than Obama and he is running for president! I think if Biden is going to drop out it should be done before the VP debates not 2 or 3 days after the debates. I think Sarah could make Hillary cry!

    Jen (868bfb)


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