Another Thought on Palin and the Issue of Experience Relative to Obama
[Posted by WLS]
I find myself getting more and more irritated reading the Dem. talking points which claim to see only crass election politics in McCain’s selection of Palin.
Those talking points are epitomized in one Andy Sully post titled “Three Words” — “Putting Country Last”.
Basically the argument is that by selecting a little known governor of a small state, only two years removed from being mayor of a small city/town, has demonstrated an unseriousness about the office by McCain which reflects his ego and selfishness.
Well, if that were true, it would also be true that 18 million democrat primary voters demonstrated an equal unseriousness about the Presidency. Those 18 million voters have given the 300 million citizens of this country the option of a Chicago machine pol with NO RESUME of accomplishment beyond winning their primary.
Palin, on the other hand, served 8 years as a mayor and 2 years as a governor. Big or small, both jobs required her to make choices, tell people want to do, and then live with the consequences of her decisions.
She faced down the corrupt elements of her own party when doing so could have led her into the political wilderness. Ted Stevens is the Godfather of Alaska statehood, and Palin called out his good friend Frank Murkowski, the sitting governor, for his corruption. She then ran against him and beat him in an open primary. She had less than glowing things to say about Stevens and Young.
These guys ARE Alaska politics. And she faced them head-on.
Yeah — lets have an honest comparison of her time in Alaska machine politics, and Obama’s time in Chicago machine politics.
Lets hear some more about Obama’s great strides at ethics reform — the kind of reform that next year will allow his political mentor in Springfield, Emil Jones, to retire and at that moment transfer about $550,000 from his campaign fund into his personal bank account just as if he had earned it through hard work.
Is THAT a debate Obama is ready to have? How about in a town hall?
Don’t forget the other 18M Dem voters, who turned out to support Hillary, who also lacks experience (and it showed–she ran a poor campaign).
Daryl Herbert (4ecd4c) — 8/29/2008 @ 8:42 pmDisregarding the hypocrisy, the whole Obama boils down to a false premise: that one must spend a lifetime (or at least many many years) in Congress before one is considered worthy of being a leader.
Throwing out several thousand years in the study of leadership and power, the Democrats have revealed that they have become consumed with the power of the Court, at the expense of recognizing real leadership from outside their pathetic, decadent little system of special interest, pork and parasitic relationships. The Republicans lost their leadership gained from promises of reform by following the left down this path of eventual failure.
The reality is that 30 years of experience doing right things wrong, or wrong things right, is irrelevant. The people most suited to lead in our nation as President and Vice President are almost exclusively *not* of the miserable political insider class. Being a Congressman is a mark of “unworthiness to serve.”
I have absolutely no interest in John McCain, and find him a boring, unaccomplished, un-visionary product of the prince’s court unworthy of support. However, the selection of someone who is clearly a natural leader, has made hard but correct choices in her career, and is someone we would quickly identify as a young executive in our Fortune 250 firm, caused me to do a first today and send money to the RNC to signal my support for the first correct decision in many years.
Let’s judge people not in experience in pontificating or hob nobbing with special Chicago, Delaware or DC interests, and measure them on their commitment to principal, ethics and service to our nation.
redherkey (9f5961) — 8/29/2008 @ 8:53 pmJust for the record, I would point out that Alaska is 273 times larger than Delaware, borders 2 foreign countries that as Governor, Palin must interact with regularly and has some of this country’s most valuable resources. She obviously has great expertise on energy if this video is any way to judge:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
and she is the leader in the natural gas pipeline construction and drilling in ANWR fight. (BTW, she calls Obama and Biden naive in the video.)
In addition, there are military bases and listening posts and probably more nuclear missiles than we want to know about that would all be part of her governor’s agenda.
Also, she and her husband own a commercial fishing boat, which makes them small business owners. She works the boat on weekends.
In the off season work where her husband is a member of the Steelworkers Union is a huge huge plus for the ticket in PA, OH, and MI.
She isn’t afraid to get her hands dirty or break a nail, and I bet she and hubby do not shell out $25,000 per child for private schools or $10,000 for dancing lessons. No, instead, she is a PTA mom, a team mom, and a hockey mom.
I say bring it on! Like one Alaskan reporter said, “she is alot tougher than she looks.”
Sara (3337ed) — 8/29/2008 @ 9:02 pmWLS – I find myself getting more and more irritated reading the Dem. talking points
Their hair really is on fire. Day one of the Palin pounding, and they’re re-defining the term panic.
Enjoy it, as they will not be able to silence Palin, and as America gets to know her and what she stands for, anyone in opposition to that will be exposed for what truly are.
Chicago and special interests have got to be very nervous. This will be all-out.
Apogee (366e8b) — 8/29/2008 @ 9:11 pmSpellcheck!!!
Apogee (366e8b) — 8/29/2008 @ 9:12 pm…exposed for what they truly are.
McCain better take note, Sarah Palin isn’t shy about “callin’ ’em like she see ’em.” She strikes me as someone who’s unwilling to compromise her integrity or ethics just to fit into a political culture.
Same goes for Dems, Palin plays it straight, and Dems should watch her acceptance speech three or four times before they try to resopnd. She’s dozens of times more formidable than they have her figured for.
Ropelight (4a83c9) — 8/29/2008 @ 9:20 pmWhy is nobody talking about Obama’s speech today? I wanna talk about hope and change.
Heh, Heh, Heh!
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/29/2008 @ 9:25 pmdaleyrocks – I wanna talk about hope and change.
We are.
Apogee (366e8b) — 8/29/2008 @ 9:28 pmCan’t wait for the depression to form when the weekend polls come out – particularly when the internals show the Dems losing working-class white men, and taking a big hit on “hockey moms”.
It’s not going to be pretty.
Another Drew (e24867) — 8/29/2008 @ 9:32 pmWhat bothers Obama voters is he hypes the underdog-hero title while actually working the churches and back rooms of Chicago. And they know it. Just ignore that, they say. Look at his potential. He sounds so smooth.
BHO’s calculated ambition brings him to where he is today: A career of not creating change, not fighting corruption, and not laying the foundation for a united city, let alone country.
Palin takes our sloganeer’s finest work and brings real accomplishments to match. More than Obama, she defines the type of change you can believe in.
Vermont Neighbor (a066ed) — 8/29/2008 @ 9:34 pm#7, Well, if you want to talk about hope and change, McCain is the hope, and Palin is the change, and Obama’s speech failed to mention either one.
Look elsewhere. Obams’s speech isn’t the place to find the discussion you seek.
Ropelight (4a83c9) — 8/29/2008 @ 9:35 pmtell people want to do
love2008 (1b037c) — 8/29/2008 @ 9:39 pmOops again WLS. Spellcheck! Don’t let the Boss see it. 😉
Ropelight – I’m thinking Obama is royally pissed off that probably few people apart from Olberman and Matthews, who are still deep in after sex, are talking talking about last night’s speech since McCain’s announcement. The speech is gone and forgotten.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/29/2008 @ 9:56 pmI think that McCain also bought some assination and impeachment insurance with this pick.
It maybe that he sees her as being a maverick like he is. In some ways she is. She works with Democrats. She is against earmarks. She is not afraid to do what she sees as right.
From what has been said about her today, she is a cut above the few other politicians that I know anything about. Kyl and Flake were the best until they supported McCain on amnesty last year.
What we always expect is that people are not as perfect as they first appear. Of course the Democrats will dig up all kinds of things to say. We will just need to see if they can find anything. I would suspect that they way that she treated the established politician since her first run as mayor that people have been looking for things for a long time.
Ed from AZ
EDP (7223ad) — 8/29/2008 @ 10:10 pmThat s/b assignation and not assination. Ed
EDP (7223ad) — 8/29/2008 @ 10:10 pmALASKA IS GEOGRAPHICALLY THE LARGEST STATE, IS IT NOT?!?!
And Governor is executive office, something that Biden has ZERO experience in and Obama has ZERO experience in.
Palin’s experience in executive leadership trumps both Biden and Obama.
Her lack of experience being a Senatorial gasbag is not a detriment to her ability to be a fine leader.
Frankly, if I had to pick any one of the 4 to lead the nation in the next 4 years – I WOULD PICK PALIN. That’s how stoked most conservatives are. We know we have a winner and we know the libs just dont get it.
Freedoms Truth (cfa2f1) — 8/29/2008 @ 10:14 pmHeadline:
McCain taps Alaska governor for VP
By LIZ SIDOTI and BETH FOUHY (Associated Press Writers)
From Associated Press
August 29, 2008 9:50 PM EDT
— Either they are snickering to themselves . . . or thet are totally clueless.
Icy Truth (6e6d48) — 8/29/2008 @ 10:28 pmThings I never thought I’s say ‘Palin is so far ahead of the 535 gasbags in congress it’s pitiful’. A real down to earth working woman who should/could be the leader of this country. I never talked to one person today that will now vote for Hussein O.
I never saw (67 years old) so much panic in a political party as is in the democrat party right now. Lame Stream Media talking heads are making complete fools and a**es of themselves on every outlet. Hussein O would have lost maybe a million votes, but with the help of the LSM he’s losing many millions with an ‘s’. As Michelle Malkin says, BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Scrapiron (d671ab) — 8/29/2008 @ 10:39 pmMcCain raised $3 million by 6 pm today. If you look at hillaryclinton.com, you’ll see comment after comment about giving money to McCain or trying to because his site was jammed. But, most of all what you see are women saying we must watch Sarah’s back, we owe it to her to not let the sexist media or the even more sexist Obama campaign do to her what they did to Hillary. I don’t think the Obamatrons realize why these women are so angry, they are sure that once they realize Palin is pro-life they’ll vote for Bambi, but that isn’t what it is about at all.
And they don’t understand how much many of us have craved having a “real” woman out there as a role model, instead of one of the Ivy League metrosexual elitists in their power suits, who look down on everyone not in their small, closed-minded circles.
For instance, I loved it when Palin said she got started as a team mom and at the PTA. I was a team mom and I know the politics is as bad there as it is in Washington, same with the PTA, but the fact is, millions of moms can identify with that. And I love it that she fishes and hunts and rides motorcycles and snowmobiles instead of sipping wine and eating cheese at the “in” spot du jour. And it is very cool that she married her high school sweetheart and got to give him this gift for their 20th wedding anniversary today and on McCain’s birthday too.
And isn’t it kind of interesting that McCain at 72 has a 17 year old daughter, while Palin at 44 has a 19 year old son, who just happens to have joined the army on 9/11 and is on his way to Iraq on this upcoming 9/11. I love it that she visited the wounded troops at Landstuhl, while Obama shined on them and went to work out. It just keeps getting better and better.
Sara (3337ed) — 8/29/2008 @ 10:40 pmPalin is a great choice.
tyree (943a27) — 8/29/2008 @ 10:48 pmMcCain put up a very classy ad congratulating Senator Obama on the occasion of his nomination. Senator Obama replied with an attack on Sarah Barracuda’s experience. Which leads us all to wonder, so who is the rube now?
I’ve thought about this more and Palin’s experience level doesn’t bother me as much as Obama’s or Biden’s for three reasons:
1. Obama isn’t able to clearly state what principles and policies he supports and stick with it, while it appears Palin can (we’ll learn more over the next 2 months). It’s easier to govern consistently when you’re clear on your guiding principles.
2. Palin isn’t the top of the ticket. Her role is to perform specific, delegated duties. Her biggest challenge will be learning how Washington works, but most Americans have consistently expressed a preference for elected officials who aren’t Washington insiders. McCain-Palin offers an insider and an outside-the-beltway (way outside) person.
3. So far, the analysis of Palin has overlooked what she brings to the ticket in addition to being a strong conservative woman. She’s the Governor of the largest oil- and gas-producing state and she served on the Conservation Commission, the Alaska agency that regulates oil and gas production. She has family members who work in the energy sector. It’s likely she know more about energy than most politicians in the US, and at present energy is crucial to our economy and foreign affairs. In addition, she has experience with environmental and worker concerns in the energy industry.
These are the main reasons I think Palin is a good pick. In addition, I want someone who understands the real world where people succeed in business, not professional government employees whose policies focus on taking from one group and giving to another.
DRJ (7568a2) — 8/29/2008 @ 11:24 pm#21
Having worked for energy companies as an employee and counsel, I can say with some confidence that Palin will not have any good expertise from her position in government or her husband’s seasonal employment. But Palin has good instincts, putting the latest pipeline out to tender and allowing it to a Canadian consortium that has a great record in that business.
On the experience side, let’s face it, she has little in terms of legislative accomplishment, but in terms of fighting down stupidity, cutting budgets, and squashing pork barrel politics, she beats most pols. And that is something positive for a Republican.
But her greatest asset in the race is that she gives the Democrats fits and highlights Obama’s problems. Her real skill is winning elections, which is the same as Obama’s. Her managerial skills are unproven, but so are Obama’s. Her foreign policy experience is zero, but so is Obama’s. She is the mirror image of Obama, and every accusation hurled at her bounces back
Moreover, Obama says he represents a break from old politics–but look what Palin’s done in Alaska, against her own party’s hierarchs.
Finally, unlike the current and prior president, the Republican ticket has two leaders who in their personal lives and political lives, walked the walk. That will be real change, and not something that can be said of Obama or Biden.
Cyrus Sanai (4df861) — 8/30/2008 @ 12:50 amI would respectfully suggest that Gov. Palin’s brief tenure in 2004 as chair and ethics officer of the Alaska Conservation Commission (the state agency which regulates oil and gas) is even more pertinent to her overall experience than her time as a city councilman or mayor (although I don’t dismiss those).
It was from that office — to which she was appointed by then-Gov. Frank Murkowski — that she first began to show her mettle as a state-wide reformer, repeating on a much larger (and politically more dangerous) scale the reforming spirit she’d shown when she challenged another city councilman’s preferential garbage pick-up contract. This time, it was her fellow commissioner, Randy Ruedrich — who was also Republican state chairman — who was flouting rules regarding public filing of disclosure forms. When first Reudrich, then GOP attorney general Gregg Renkes, and then Gov. Murkowski all ignored her up-channel complaints, she finally resigned in protest.
Palin put her entire career at risk. She had every reason to think that the good old boys would triumph. She had entirely burned her bridges with Frank Murkowski, among others. But rather than backing down or giving up, she continued the fight, writing op-eds from her kitchen in which she famously said that the only difference between a pit bull and a hockey mom is the lipstick.
Within two years, Ruedrich had been forced to resign from the Commission, Renkes had been forced to resign as attorney general, and she’d whipped Frank Murkowski in the GOP gubernatorial primary!
(What Reudrich was hiding by refusing to complete and file the disclosure forms was the extent of his relationship with VECO — the drilling contractor whose bribes and other misdeeds have since led to several officials going to prison for official corruption.)
And of course, after sweeping to victory in the general election, Gov. Palin led efforts to pass stiff new state ethics laws — not the toothless crap that Barack Obama falsely claims to have taken political risks to champion in the U.S. Senate.
Were Sarah Palin a Democrat, Julia Roberts would already be at the front of the queue to play her role in the major motion picture, which would beat the hell out of Erin Brockovich.
Beldar (00a6c7) — 8/30/2008 @ 1:11 amOn experience:
The second on the ticket with a 2-year Governorship, some executive experience, and with at least 2-years for McCain before I would think that his ticker may not tock, I might be a little concerned IF
she was screwed up about Iraq and Iran, and economic policy, missle defense, etc.
BUT
since she is not
AND
since with all his experience, Bush (and every single democrat to include “let’s partition Iraq” Biden) are screwed on this account (at least Bush took care of 9-11 when it kicked him in the ass)
AND
since she IS a reformer
I say that Palin is experienced. In fact, I love the fact that she is not a six term Senator. Some experience is bad.
That block is checked. Don’t insult me with reminding me that she is CIC of Alaskan National Guard. If the National Guard was so great, they would not be relegated to FOB security and Convoy Security in Iraq. Not that they are not great, but no one takes them seriously in the DoD.
AND
unless she has consulted with Putin and convinced Siberia to join NATO, don’t remind me that Alaska buts up against Kamchatka (across the ocean and a prehistoric ice bridge)
PashaG (3de24f) — 8/30/2008 @ 1:30 amOn the Wooten-gate affair:
From what little I know it appears that ex brother-in-law was not a nice guy and that he also was found to use excessive force as a police officer. Should he have been fired for using excesive force?
If this fact was established, hell yes. With what we have seen of some of these policemen kicking the stuffing out of people, it is indeed a matter that even a Govenor should be professionally concerned about.
If he was not disciplined appropriately, i.e. if the system acted to “protect” one of their own, should the commissioner be fired? In the drop of a hat. Out with him.
Should a staff assistant have inquired about the discipline of a cop using excessive force? Sure, especially if the ties to the Governor would impune the integrity of the office, i.e. to make it look as if the Governor was protecting him.
Should this be done while the sister of the Governor is in a “messy” divorce? No, stupid as hell. The staff member needs to take a walk. Bad judgement on their part at least. They need to protect the office from the appearance of impropriety.
Has the Governor acted improperly? Well, she needs to fire that staff member. She certainly should know what her staff is up to so she will be held to account for it and must speak on the matter and must say what she would do better. In fact, she must take responsibility for the actions of her staff. Period. She must show that her office acted in the interest of the people of Alaska in firing the commissioner and that it was an unfortunate coincidence that her sister had the bad judgement to marry a “wife-beating”, “excessive force using”, etc. etc. etc. and that this is not some genetic predisposition among her clan (which leads us to examinations of the Obama tribe, etc.). How is it that her judgment is good? Well, this is self-evident at the time as will hopefully be articulated by her domestic and foreign policy positions.
A few ifs here that may all boil down to the a old boy system being reformed or to a petty family feud in the public sector. Which is it and does it matter?
With Obama taking money from Rezko and hanging with Ayers? We may be tempted to say, “let the bomb-throwing begin.”
But it already has and cannot be stopped. In this fight, Obama loses. So let the inquisition begin!
PashaG (3de24f) — 8/30/2008 @ 2:32 amOn Palin:
The real question is whether or not she is crazy and thus whether or not McCain’s judgment is questionable. Are all women crazy and are all politicians beyond redemption? Are we in hopeless straights or can we make our way in the world?
Is it possible to make a mistake and to learn or are we damned by an idolatry to an ideal? Are we free or slaves?
Thus we have symmetry. Obama’s and Biden’s objectively crazy ideas and selfish interests v. McCain and Palin’s subjective imperfections and noble ambitions.
While the partisans will dive straight into the soup, the real battle will be fought in the public square and will center on abortion, energy, and foreign policy i.e. our culture and pragmatism, thought and feeling.
The battle cannot be won on one front and lost on the other. It must be won on both together.
Is it to be Apple Pie or Arugula? What we will be discussing is nothing less than the future model for our society. Only this time, the loser will be broken entirely and irreversibly. “Progress” can take either direction. Either way, there is no going back.
PashaG (3de24f) — 8/30/2008 @ 3:18 amPashaG: First of all, she has taken the time to visit Iraq, Kuwait, and most of all Landstuhl. She has seen conditions first hand and with her son on his way to Iraq, she’ll have eyes on the ground, so to speak. Now that might not seem like much, but it is more than nearly all of us pontificating and certainly more than Obama. Heck I probably know more about the Middle East than Obama just from reading the Counterterrorism blog,, the Jawa Report, the Mudville Gazette and a few foreign online news outlets.
Second, she will begin to get daily security briefings and will have more info available than most Americans will ever know exists, making her first-hand experience of #1 even more valuable.
Having worked for a Member of Congress who was very active in the Serbia/Kosovo run up, I know that Senators never figure things out for themselves. Everything is briefed by staff as they run from one hearing to another. I don’t care how many years in office they have, if they don’t get off their duffs and go to the various ground zeros, all they really know is what is handed to them by staff. If they don’t have good staff who provide them with honest assessments, they aren’t good leaders.
And whether you give it credence or not, I’d be willing to bet that all Alaskans have more savvy about Canadian/American or Russian/American relations than any Senator. And I’m sure she has more knowledge of Alaska resources/energy than any Senator. If she can take on Murkowski, she can take on Imanutjob. Actually, I think any mother of five could take on any world leader and be more discerning than any Senator and most especially an elitist “I’m smarter and better than everyone” Obama. Biden, OTOH, is in love with the sound of his own voice. I’ve been watching him in the Senate since 1987 and he is useless in a hearing since he uses all his time to pontificate and no time listening. He is forever “stuck on stupid.”
And she has a master to teach her the ins and outs of Washington. McCain is what we used to call a “hands on” Senator because he likes to see for himself, not only rely on staff briefings. But what really sets him apart from Obama and Biden is his 22 years of military service in a command role. The USA spent a lot of money to train him to take a leadership role and he learned his lessons well. He was a leader as POW, he was a leader and had a command when he came home. And leaders have a 6th sense about who is or will be a good leader and he sees those qualities in Palin.
Everything we know about Palin so far indicates she has shown her innate leadership qualities going back to high school. Good leaders know how to surround themselves with good advisers. They don’t try to be the smartest guy in the room, they just have to be smart enough to recognize who is the smartest on a given issue. I can’t see Obama taking anyone’s advice, he’ll always think he knows better. We’ve seen it already in his attitude about Petraeus, who he dismisses out of hand. Not to mention, that it is obvious Obama is in the lefty school of military = stupid person with no other options = no respect. Palin obviously respects the military. And she
certainly has more experience than Kerry ever had. He was a failure at leadership, not too bright, and suffers the same elitism as Obama.
The fact that she and her husband own a commercial fishing operation, she has first-hand experience as a small business owner, which is more experience than any of the 3 Senators on the tickets. Having owned a small business myself I know the amount of b.s. you have to deal with. I count this experience as more than useful to her in any administration role, just as I count the experience of a multi-tasking mom as more experience than either Obama or Biden.
Giving a speech from a teleprompter, no matter how many swooning sheeple you bring to tears, is not experience. What will he do when he has to think on his feet in a crisis situation? Uh, ah, uh uh uh uh, ah, etc? Watch the video linked above and see that Palin can easily speak off the cuff and effectively get her point across. She is competent, confident, and tough. Not to mention, ballsy, beautiful, and bright.
But then, like most Americans, I put a much higher premium on the “school of life” and common sense than I do an Ivy League indoctrination in the ways of Saul Alinsky.
Sara (3337ed) — 8/30/2008 @ 3:31 amSara,
Yes, I agree. I am totally OK with Palin’s experience and intuition–also with her motives and direction.
The question is whether she has the character to stand up to something that should not have happened in her staff and to take responsibility. Can she learn from a mistake or is she doctrinaire? Is she a zealot or is she (and McCain) man enough to admit a misstep, allow for a rebuke, and to at the same time allow it of others?
Can we be free with all it entails? Responsibility means we get to make mistakes because if we don’t, we do not learn and if we do not learn we are doomed. At the same time we cannot allow ourselves licence. There must be an order left by those of us bleeding on the learning edge of the blade to give structure for those that follow.
PashaG (3de24f) — 8/30/2008 @ 3:54 amIn short, if no mistakes are allowed and no reponsibility taken, then we might as well extend Bush’s term indefinately. We will have reached the end of history (in more ways than one).
The party of the future learns.
PashaG (3de24f) — 8/30/2008 @ 3:59 amI’m not a woman and don’t really fathom the passion for “choice” that appears to be a litmus test for many voters. But it seems to me that many ordinary will be highly turned off by wretched venom being spewed by the fever swamp left. Actually I’m not even sure what is considered sane liberal thought these days. Certainly many of the media talking heads seems hypnotized by the grandeur of the empty suit/arrogant baracky.
I’m reading garbage such as Palin is polluting the American gene pool because she didn’t abort her Mongoloid child and besides it is not really hers because her own daughter actually gave birth and Mrs. Palin is covering that fact up.
madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 8/30/2008 @ 6:26 amAnd so-called respectable con law pfofs like Ann Althouse are now belittling Alaska for being no bigger in population than Ft. Worth, Texas, as if mere population were any indicator of the work Palin actually accomplished. Pray tell just what has the Magic Negro done with his “community activist” time or eight years in Ill. senate voting “present”?
I’m hoping for a McCain-Palin landslide so that Obama can crawl back under the corruot Chitown rock from whence he came. And still we will hear how the marxists wuz robbed because the American people are racists and too stupid to opt for the self-appointed Neophtye genius the world is craving to lead it.
A couple of gems from an Amazon.com discussion board: Sarah Palin:An Insult to Women 1. Once again it is all about the oil. Alaska has lots of it. McCain didn’t select her. The people who really run the Republican party did.
2.Re:Experience Barack Obama was selected as the democrat of choice by the people of this country in primaries across the nation. Sarah has no such mandate by the people. Watch the backlash…maybe you’ll learn something and finally “get” it.
The question for me is what is wrong with public education that it turns out so many elitist cretins? Hillary was a brilliant student in college? She sure had her problems passing the bar. But then she did excel at the Rose Law firm when hubby was guv of Ark. and she obviously has exceptional acumen in finances, easily turning a $1k investment into $100k. Obviously Palin slept her way to the top since there is no way a small town mayor could usurp a sitting governor. And then there’s the thought that McCain and Palin will force women into back alley abortions again. Of course there’s no chance that the worst that would happen from a right to abortion perspective is that individual states would choose which way to handle abortions. There has always been a cognitive dissonance for me watching the passions liberals have for abortion, including letting those attempted abortions born alive being left to die and liberal zeal to save the lives of convicted and condemned to death murderers. Never any recognition for the victims of killers or abortion fanatics.
madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 8/30/2008 @ 7:10 amI note the LA Times this morning headlines her as being a “Creationist” on fairly flimsy evidence. I believe the Times meant this as snark. Their praise was noticeably faint.
Kevin Murphy (0b2493) — 8/30/2008 @ 7:14 amPretty sad when the Dems have to compare their #1 to the GOPs #2 to be competitive, and they Dems still lose.
PCD (5c49b0) — 8/30/2008 @ 7:15 am“The only difference between a pit bull and a hockey mom is the lipstick”. Epic quote, I hope she uses it during the campaign.
She was also known as “Sarah Barracuda” due to her competitive nature on the B-Ball court…wonder how her and the Messiah would do in a pick up game on the court???
fmfnavydoc (ba43d6) — 8/30/2008 @ 7:45 amKevin Murphy @ 32,
Bradley J. Fikes (0ea407) — 8/30/2008 @ 7:49 amPalin did use some of the rhetoric from the intelligent design creationist crowd, but she avoided giving a direct answer. She’ll certainly be asked about it again during the campaign, and let’s hope she says something definitive.
On the Creationist stuff, Charles Johnson of LGF put paid to that theme, he showed how it was taking stuff out of context.
This is Charles on Palin’s comments. Charles has been on a tear against Creationists for a while now.
SPQR (26be8b) — 8/30/2008 @ 8:18 amShe won’t “say something definitive” about teaching creationism, even if pressed. It would be impolitic and open a debate McCain doesn’t need.
steve (d08439) — 8/30/2008 @ 8:45 amSarah Palin will attract values voters into the camp in droves. She’s charming, tough and adept at deflecting tough questions with imprecise answers. These are considerable campaign assets. In a close race, put bets on the sunnier candidate.
But McCain failed the test of having someone nearby ready to be president on day one.
It’s probably a wash in terms of the outcome.
steve (d08439) — 8/30/2008 @ 8:58 amReally, steve, which question did she say was “above her paygrade” to answer?
SPQR (26be8b) — 8/30/2008 @ 9:02 amDRJ said:
It seems like she’s gotten a lot out of the experience she has. She used her jobs to expose and deal with corruption in her own party. Pretty much the opposite of Obama in Chicago! If he had actually bucked the system there, it would be a different discussion.
And the swooning about her being a governor? Are we supposed to forget how many presidents have been governors?? So it’s okay to elect governors from Texas, Arkansas and Georgia but horrifying to elect a gov. as VP?
MamaAJ (788539) — 8/30/2008 @ 9:07 amSteve, Which is worse, having a standby who is not ready to serve on day one, or having a president that is not ready to serve?
ROA (4e010e) — 8/30/2008 @ 9:09 amIf Obama had bucked the Cook County political machine, he’d be waiting tables at TGIFridays in Itasca now. Instead he swam in the same pool with the Daleys, Jeremiah Wright, Emil Jones, and Bill Ayers, and so here he is today. He’s a creature of machine politics, whereas Ms. Palin has defied and defeated it in her own state.
furious (56af6d) — 8/30/2008 @ 9:12 am“adept at deflecting tough questions with imprecise answers”
steve – That is one of Obama’s most impressive skills. His ability to give 30 minute speeches composed entirely of platitudes yet convince people he said something specific is awe inspiring. Vice Presidents don’t set policy, so what’s the issue? I’m looking forward to seeing bloviating Biden trying yo make her cry at a debate.
“But McCain failed the test of having someone nearby ready to be president on day one.”
Steve – Who’s test is this? Where is it written?
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/30/2008 @ 9:13 amSPQR,
Thanks for that link. Most of the other parts of Palin’s story are inspiring, especially the corruption-fighting part. And while creationism is anti-science, so is the radical left-wing agenda of Obama’s buddy Bill Ayers, who advocates political indoctrination while teaching science.
In 1997, Ayers and his mentor Maxine Greene persuaded Teachers College Press to launch a series of books on social justice teaching, with Ayers as editor and Greene serving on the editorial board (along with Rashid Khalidi, loyal supporter of the Palestinian cause and the Edward Said Professor of Arab Studies at Columbia University). Twelve volumes have appeared so far, including one titled Teaching Science for Social Justice.
Teaching science for social justice? Let Teachers College professor Angela Calabrese Barton, the volume’s principal author, try to explain: “The marriages between capitalism and education and capitalism and science have created a foundation for science education that emphasizes corporate values at the expense of social justice and human dignity.” The alternative? “Science pedagogy framed around social justice concerns can become a medium to transform individuals, schools, communities, the environment, and science itself, in ways that promote equity and social justice. Creating a science education that is transformative implies not only how science is a political activity but also the ways in which students might see and use science and science education in ways transformative of the institutional and interpersonal power structures that play a role in their lives.” If you still can’t appreciate why it’s necessary for your child’s chemistry teacher to teach for social justice, you are probably hopelessly wedded to reason, empiricism, individual merit, and other capitalist and post-colonialist deformities.
Bradley J. Fikes (0ea407) — 8/30/2008 @ 9:23 amThere are two different vice presidential jobs: the job of being vice president, and the job of being a vice presidential candidate. And there are two different presidential jobs as well: being president and being the candidate.
Looked at in those terms, John McCain is clearly the best of the four at being president, though Barack Obama might edge him out for the job of presidential candidate. Joe Biden might be better prepared than Sarah Palin to be vice president, but it looks like she might beat him like a drum in the job of vice presidential candidate. Thing is, you don’t get the government job until you are successful in the candidate’s job!
The libs are scared fecesless by Governor Palin.
I'm Dana, too! (556f76) — 8/30/2008 @ 9:28 amLooking at Palin’s back history a bit and all of the discussion about McCain’s health and age, I’m kind of reminded of the quote:
Not that Palin is a Teddy Roosevelt, but I suspect they would have found each other kindred souls.
roy in nipomo (4cbd11) — 8/30/2008 @ 9:43 amAs for Joe Biden being ready on day one, he’s offered to lead the nation in several Democrat Primary Elections, and his own party turned him down, rather conclusively each and every time.
In a general poll of likely voters, Biden couldn’t get past the margin of error.
Ropelight (4a83c9) — 8/30/2008 @ 9:50 amAt this point, Palin sees all policy as domestic policy.
She acknowledged “not knowing what the plan is to ever end the war that we’re engaged in” a couple of days ago.
She and her life story are a marketing walk-off homer. But while politically defensible, you can’t say that John McCain put country over winning by naming her.
steve (d08439) — 8/30/2008 @ 9:52 amI think this will be a wash for McCain. Yes, he stepped all over Obama’s speech in high fashion. Yes, she is a fresh face in Washington. Yes, the Democrats were caught totally flat-footed.
However, it’s also shot to hell McCain’s entire argument against Obama: “not enough experience.” Now, I don’t really buy the experience argument in general (against either Obama or Palin), but if that’s McCain’s main point, what the devil is he doing nominating someone with even less experience than Obama? Half the blogosphere has been combing the archives for some statement from her on any foreign policy issue, and it’s pretty thin.
It’s exactly how the media is going to play it. Look at these lead paragraphs from an article in today’s NYT:
It wouldn’t be such an issue if McCain weren’t 72 with multiple run-ins with cancer. I think this was a tactical win and a strategic mistake.
Russell (da1856) — 8/30/2008 @ 9:58 amThose talking points are epitomized in one Andy Sully post titled “Three Words” — “Putting Country Last”.
What’s more insane about Sullivan is what he said here:
So according to Sully, running an election campaign is superior to actually running a town or a state. Umm, I know that Bush caused Andy to go around the bend, but I didn’t think that he had caused Sully’s brain to actually leak out of his ears.
physics geek (9a11ae) — 8/30/2008 @ 10:04 amFortunately we “the people” determine who is most qualified to be POTUS and VP. I choose conservatism over communism any day.
PatriotRider (339d92) — 8/30/2008 @ 10:06 amSo Hillary had more experience than Palin?
How so? (Oh, I am not begging that question)
PashaG (3de24f) — 8/30/2008 @ 10:09 am#50 Seems to me that Palin is a ballsy kick ass campaigner if she managed to toss the entrenched sitting governor out on his corrupt ass. Would be so lovely if she and McCain managed to wreak some havoc in DC against the ubiquitous, sleazy special interests.
madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 8/30/2008 @ 10:15 amHere’s what Alaskans think of Sarah Palin.
David Ehrenstein (1d6679) — 8/30/2008 @ 10:20 am“It wouldn’t be such an issue if McCain weren’t 72 with multiple run-ins with cancer.”
Russell, if you had any personal experience with cancer you’d know what a BS argument this is – I’ve had Non – Hodgkins Lymphoma (Stage 4, over three years ago), and also went through two minor bouts of skin cancer recently. The two treatments and long – term outcomes could not be more different; the first is quite serious and often terminal (I was among the fortunate ones), while the vast majority of skin cancer cases (if caught early) are minor long – term threats, if at all. McCain underwent treatments for melanoma, but it was caught quite early, and the chances for more serious recurrences are slightly above the level as the general population.
These kinds of ignorant prognostications continue to amaze me, given the day and age we live in. The pronouncements about cancer and the chances of recurrence are far too complicated to state in a definitive manner, until you understand the complexity and diversity of each type of cancer in the first place. Please take the time to actually learn about the subject before you intone in such an unfounded manner in the future. Talk about his age all you wish, but in this instance your understanding is quite limited.
Dmac (874677) — 8/30/2008 @ 10:26 amBradley,
Well said. While I’m a very fervent opponent of Creationism, ( over at Debunkers we’ve spent a lot of time on it directly confronting the pseudo science ), it is as you say not the worse ideological threat to the integrity of science.
SPQR (26be8b) — 8/30/2008 @ 10:29 amIt’s really very simple. Sullivan is displaying Stockholm Syndrome. He will say almost anything now to support his new man-crushes in the Democratic Party.
Honestly. “Hope and Change™” from Chicago politics? or Joe freakin’ Biden?
To get to the central point, it is all about the issue of entitlement. Obama oozes the concept that he is entitled to be President, despite his sparse record and history of voting (or not voting in the statehouse). But then, people his entire life in academia and “community organizing” and the Daley Machine have told him that he is very, very special and deserving and destined for great things.
As for HRC, ditto the above…but add to it the seething resentment she feels (and I don’t blame her for the emotion) to have played second fiddle to an ubercon man. She feels she deserves this because of the indignities she has suffered.
To be fair, she worked harder than Obama.
To borrow from “Saving Private Ryan” I want the “new” Republican ideal to be like the final line: be worth it. Republicans have a chance now to work toward reform and common sense.
And the vice presidency is quite different. It’s about balancing the ticket. Obama is far-Left, according to voting records. So who does he select? Some guy who is just about as far-Left. Whoops. Instead, Obama was sensitive to charges of inexperience so he got an old white guy who (supposedly) knows foreign policy.
McCain wanted someone with new ideas, and a history (admittedly short term) of reform. Of standing up to corruption. Has Obama done that? Biden?
Add to the slap in the face that Hillary Clinton has received multiple times from the Obama campaign, and adding a woman to the Republican ticket is a suggestion to the electorate that bloc-voting just makes the voter a tool of the System. Democrats cannot say that they “own” the women’s vote right now.
18 million cracks in the ceiling is a ringing metaphor. And the way that the left-blogosphere and the MSM is handling the Palin selection should really give many centrist women pause.
You own your own vote. Not the DNC or RNC.
What I like about Governor Palin is that she typifies what I see as the core of the Right-Left difference: the Right is about opportunities for which you strive…while the Left is about entitlement because of background or history. To be sure, the Right does that from time to time as well. But it is hardly the backbone of right-leaning thought.
I am not that worried about Joe Biden debating Sarah Palin, I have to say. She is raising five kids, and faced down genuine corruption. She can handle this guy, who cannot help but shoot his mouth off (look for a “Lazio Moment”). If I am wrong, I am wrong. But I am hopeful, for the first time in a long time.
And I doubt very much I am alone in that sentiment.
YMMV, of course.
Eric Blair (642d37) — 8/30/2008 @ 10:31 amYes, let me repeat that.
The comparison on experience should be with Hillary not Obama.
The point the Dems are making with experience is sexist. Don’t beg the question and assume their mysongynistical penis, errr, premise.
PashaG (3de24f) — 8/30/2008 @ 10:33 amDmac, mad props for what you wrote about cancer. This is just politics, again.
African Americans are prone to significantly higher rates of heart disease, which tobacco smoking only makes worse. Should we start making voting choices against Obama on that basis?
Hardly.
Eric Blair (642d37) — 8/30/2008 @ 10:34 amYou know – I’d really like to know what part of Biden’s foreign policy views there are that liberals think make him superior to Palin.
His record on a number of issues seems to range from either a.) averse to what the left’s been arguing for to b.) kinda embarrassing in retrospect.
Anon (03ab2e) — 8/30/2008 @ 10:47 amEric, the funniest thing about that statement is that McCain has released over 1,000 pages of his full medical history, and he undergoes a full physical check – up every WEEK. And regarding our Dear Messiah? They’ve released less than 10 pages on his medical history. What are they hiding?
Dmac (874677) — 8/30/2008 @ 10:51 am60, Dmac, Obama is so paranoid of people discovering something on him that he won’t even release his official birth certificate.
PCD (5c49b0) — 8/30/2008 @ 10:54 amDmac, that reminds me of the whole “Did WJ Clinton have an STD” question. We never did get a straight answer on that one.
Again, politics is the game. It’s sad.
I’ve always been lukewarm about McCain. Admire his story, yes. But he seemed “Old Guard” to me. Maybe the Palin selection is a step in the correct direction for the Republican Party.
Maybe not. But I like this match up a LOT more than Obama-Biden. After reading the Clarence Thomas autobiography, and looking at some of his “latest hits,” I cannot stand Biden.
Eric Blair (642d37) — 8/30/2008 @ 10:57 amPCD, again if there’s nothing to fear, a willing transparency is the hand played. Obama has been anything but transparent and freely opened up his closet. Its been a pick-the-lock situation at best. Not good.
This Dana, Not That Dana! (e709b2) — 8/30/2008 @ 10:57 amThe Democrat ticket is weak at the top and pompus at the VP spot. These two pretenders are qualified to run a kool-ade stand, not the USA.
If Obama wasn’t half black he’d still be back in Chicago as a ward heeler, running errands for Mayor Daley’s corrupt administration.
Ropelight (4a83c9) — 8/30/2008 @ 10:58 amDmac,
Bradley J. Fikes (0ea407) — 8/30/2008 @ 11:01 amI second that props for your speaking out about the misunderstandings about cancer. It’s not all the same, and people need to know that.
“Obama is so paranoid of people discovering something on him that he won’t even release his official birth certificate.”
No doubt we’ll be shortly hearing the following:
“This is not the birth certificate I thought I knew.”
Dmac (874677) — 8/30/2008 @ 11:01 amBradley, hopefully your valiant efforts (along with Eric regarding his students) to teach your readership about the basic tenets of science and medicine will help alleviate the current ignorance of the general populace.
Dmac (874677) — 8/30/2008 @ 11:09 amMcCain official: “I think we’re going to have to examine our tag line, ‘dangerously inexperienced.'”
From the same piece:
On the general subject of Obama’s employment history
JAR (08f6d2) — 8/30/2008 @ 11:22 am“Obama taught at the University of Chicago Law School from 1992-2004, served in the Illinois senate from 1997-2004, and held positions as associate and of counsel at the law firm of Miner, Barnhill & Galland (known as Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland when Obama joined) from 1993-2002″
A brilliant and oh so insightful email to NRO:
On Palin and experience: The question we all should be asking is,
Does Barack Obama have the experience to take over, if – God forbid – something happens to Joe Biden?
Dana (e709b2) — 8/30/2008 @ 11:22 amJar – Jar Binks is up to his usual habit of ignoring and/or deleting the more substantial parts of his sources, to wit: his work at the law firm was on retainer/part – time only, while the majority of those years were spent as a state legislator. Jarhead, next time you try to post something earth – shattering, try to remember that some of us here have been quite aware of Obama for the better of the past decade. We’ve heard all of this nonsense before, so better to attempt to pull this type of tripe over someone more gullible and uninformed (besides yourself). Why not post this at Oprah’s site, I heard she cried her falsh eyelashes off during his speech. Sounds about right for your kind of logic.
Dmac (874677) — 8/30/2008 @ 11:42 amI’m just waiting for Howard Dean’s next pronouncements:
Hey everybody, remember we’ve got the black guy on our ticket.
You know that stuff about treating women equally, we didn’t think Republicans were serious about it, because we sure weren’t.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/30/2008 @ 12:00 pmcould Sarah Palin have run a national election campaign against, say, a machine as powerful as the Bush family
Well, come to think of it, yes. She took on the ironclad Murkowski mafia and the likes of Ted Stevens and Don Young. She obliterated Murkowski, a 4 time Senator and sitting Alaskan Governor.
Now, could Obama run a national campaign without bending over to the Chicago Machine?
Well no. Wright, Ayers, Dailey, Axelrod, etc, etc.
Sara (3337ed) — 8/30/2008 @ 12:01 pmShhh – don’t disturb the Messiah’s acolytes, they’re too busy trolling the MSM to screech about Palin’s lack of “experience.”
Dmac (874677) — 8/30/2008 @ 12:19 pmAs a strong Clinton supporter I am profoundly offended by the choice of Gov. Palin. Maybe Obama was right and McCain just doesn’t get it–I was supporting Hillary Clinton and what she stands for; her gender was just one part of what made her my choice. Universal health care, new jobs, reproductive rights, an end to the Iraq war: all of it.
I was just going to vote for Obama and not campaign or donate this election, but after seeing McCain’s choice of running mate I have just donated as much as I can afford this paycheck to Obama’s campaign–and I will be dedicating ALL my discretionary time and income to see that NO WAY, NO HOW, NO MCCAIN.
If the Republicans haven’t found a new way to suborn the elections a third time, plan on Obama being the first black president of the United States of America. And as for the speeches heard in Denver? They will be remembered by the 38 million Americans who heard them long after Palin and McCain are answers to Trivia questions regardless of who wins the election.
Minnesota Ice (f46045) — 8/30/2008 @ 12:21 pmPalin is anti-choice, opposing abortion even in the case of rape or incest. She supported Pat Buchanan for president in 2000. She thinks creationism should be taught in public schools.
details here
interesting.
JAR (08f6d2) — 8/30/2008 @ 12:25 pmShe supported Pat Buchanan for president in 2000.
No, she didn’t. She supported Steve Forbes in 2000 and served on his state leadership committee. Her support for Pat Buchanan consisted of wearing a button when he visited her city.
I don’t mind trolls. I do mind trolls that assume everybody else is as ignorant about politics as they are.
Anon (03ab2e) — 8/30/2008 @ 12:33 pmI’ve said it elsewhere but I’ll say it here, too:
McCain’s side should emphasize that McCain uses accomplishments as his benchmark of experience, not tenure.
I.E. Make every argument over experience come back to accomplishments – Obama’s vs Palin’s – and Obama will soon be too scared to even mention the subject.
ras (fc54bb) — 8/30/2008 @ 12:36 pmAs a strong Clinton supporter as you all know I am , I am profoundly offended by Obama’s choice of Sen. Biden. Maybe McCain was right and Obama just doesn’t get it–I was supporting Hillar Clinton and what she stands for; her gender was just one part of what made her my choice. Universal health care, new jobs, reproductive rights, an end to the Iraq war: all of it.
I was just going to vote for Obama and not campaign or donate this election, but after seeing Obama’s choice of running mate I have just donated as much as I can afford this paycheck to McCain’s campaign–and I will be dedicating ALL my discretionary time and income to see that NO WAY, NO HOW, NO OBAMA.
If the Republicans haven’t found a new way to suborn the elections a third time, plan on Palin being the first women president of the United States of America. And as for the speeches heard in Minnesota? They will be remembered by the 38 million Americans who heard them long after Biden and Obama are answers to Trivia questions regardless of who wins the election.
Anon (this is remarkably easy isn't it?) (03ab2e) — 8/30/2008 @ 12:39 pmOr … to phrase it another way, since McCain clearly is reaching out to Hillary’s former supporters … when the experience issue is raised, McCain could simply say that Palin accomplished more in 2 years than most men could in 10 … and leave it at that (well, perhaps a small smile; it’d be enough).
ras (fc54bb) — 8/30/2008 @ 12:39 pm“Palin is anti-choice”
No she is not. She is fine with gun choice, with family choice and with parents having more say over kids education. She probably supports health care choice and social security choice too, giving individuals more say in how they are insured, etc. And she’ll let you choose moose *or* caribou stew.
What she is against is killing unborn human beings. that’s anti-abortion ie prolife not ‘anti-choice’ a left-tard concocted word that means nothing.
Abortions kills a human life, so the caring answer is to oppose it and try to stop it as much as possible.
As Feminist for Life member, Sarah Palin is a strong pro-life career mother. This example of a mother who walks the walk of prolife caring is scaring the bezeesus out of the pro-abortion folks like yourself, so you resort to exaggerations and lies. eg that Pat Buchanan talking point has been proven false as has the other talking point.
Keep scraping the bottom of the barrel, you’ll find something.
Freedoms Truth (cfa2f1) — 8/30/2008 @ 12:39 pmJAR is not a troll, Anon. It is an aggressive liar.
Like Minnesota Ice.
JD (5f0e11) — 8/30/2008 @ 12:40 pmWhat percentage of the American population is opposed to abortion in cases of rape or incest?
JAR (08f6d2) — 8/30/2008 @ 12:43 pm“As a strong Clinton supporter I am profoundly offended by the choice of Gov. Palin.”
No doubt that you’re exactly what you say you are, Minnesota Lice.
“I have just donated as much as I can afford this paycheck to Obama’s campaign…”
You mean all of that $2.98? Woah, look out, McSame, Lice’s got the war chest out, and she’s just gettin’ started! Watch her threaten to send her monthly lotto ticket allocation to The Messiah – that’ll do the trick.
“She supported Pat Buchanan for president in 2000. She thinks creationism should be taught in public schools…”
Of which it would appear that you spent scant time in during your childhood, JarHead. Here’s the inevitable Fisking of the Leftard’s recent screechings:
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/08/29/heart-ache-palin-wants-creationism-taught-in-public-schools/
Awww, that’s okay, Jar – Jar. Don’t you worry your little head about all of this unhappy news for you; it will all be over soon.
Dmac (874677) — 8/30/2008 @ 12:43 pmHow does one suborn an election?
JD (5f0e11) — 8/30/2008 @ 12:44 pmI would put it more like – she has accomplished more for reform in her career than 2 men put together have done, despite one being in DC for over 30 years.
WHAT HAS OBAMA LED? WHAT HAS OBAMA DONE? ITS NOT THE YEARS, ITS WHAT YOU DO WITH IT. ALL OBAMA HAS DONE IS SPRINGBOARD TO HIS NEXT GIG. ALL BIDEN HAS DOEN IS SPOUT OFF FOR30 YEARS. BFD!!! ALL HAT, NO CATTLE!
Freedoms Truth (cfa2f1) — 8/30/2008 @ 12:44 pm“What percentage of the American population is opposed to abortion in cases of rape or incest?”
Ah, the classic Trollish technique of quickly changing the subject when it senses immediate danger from brain cramping. Careful you don’t crap your pants on the way out, little boy.
Dmac (874677) — 8/30/2008 @ 12:46 pmThe Left is more off its game over Palin than I’ve seen for years. And just wait’ll they realize that it’s not just this election that’s at stake; it’s the 18 million identity voters’ perceptions for years to come.
Please, Br’er Lefties, don’t continue these attacks! No more, please!
ras (fc54bb) — 8/30/2008 @ 12:48 pmI am sure this stuff was ‘in the can’ by the Obama campaign. No matter who was picked, we’d get the defensive “lets give this impression of support/offense” …
“As a strong Clinton supporter I am profoundly offended by the choice of Gov Pawlenty er no, Gov. Romney, er no, Sen Lieberman, er no, .. Gov Palin.”
So LETS GET HONEST. Minn. Lice, did you listen to Gov Palin’s speech?
Freedoms Truth (cfa2f1) — 8/30/2008 @ 12:50 pmDid you think Palin’s praise of Ferraro and Hillary Clinton for blazing the trail was appropriate or not?
(Note: you dont have to be a shill and spinner on this; its not illegal for a democrat to admit a republican can say or do the right thing now and then.)
Clinton supporters I imagine are largely pro choice. And of those few that aren’t I doubt that they would go so far as to vote for someone who is opposed to the exception for rape and incest.
A simple, logical, thought.
JAR (08f6d2) — 8/30/2008 @ 12:56 pm” It occurs to me that some on the right actually think that Obama is as inexperienced and as trivial a figure as Palin. So ask yourself: could Sarah Palin have run a national election campaign against, say, a machine as powerful as the Bush family, and won?”
Palin already took on the Alaska establishment GOP and defeated them. Palin has sky high ratings in Alaska, she must have some capability to be so popular.
I’ve seen Jindhal & Palin taglines and expressions of support for them in conservative and right-wing chat sites for some time this year. Many see Jindhal and Palin as the conservative reformist future of the party, and rightly so for that is what the country needs, and the question was not IF they were ready but WHEN they were ready.
Can she pull off a national campaign? Given the elated response to her candidacy by the base, the answer is quite probably yes.
Sully has his head up the rear of the Obama ticket so far he cant see the big picture. he idiotically thinks that only a Kennedy left-liberal zero accomplishment chicago pol can overcome the Bush legacy or the bipartisan culture of corruption.
Actually the McCain/Palin ticket is the real change and reform ticket. Obama is just the same old failed liberal democrat politics wrapped in a new package.
Freedoms Truth (cfa2f1) — 8/30/2008 @ 12:58 pmDmac – JAR can’t even keep up as the left’s Palin smears are discredited one by one. He also can’t think for himself.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/30/2008 @ 12:59 pmIf the standard of experience is accomplishments and executive duties, then not only does Palin have more experience than Obama, SHE HAS MORE EXPERIENCE THAN MCCAIN.
What this has done is remove the experience argument off the table, which means it’s a loss from McCain’s POV. Every time someone mentions how inexperienced Obama is, the Democrats will merely ask if experience is so important, than why was Palin picked. And how, when it comes down to that, she’s got more experience than McCain.
McCain can argue accomplishments of course.
Obama–none
McCain–helping normalize relations with Vietnam.
various pieces of legislation which contravened the Constitution, or engraged Conservatives, or both. Usually, both, in fact.
Also, do you folks realize that Alaska has, in the form of passing out oil royalties to all its residents every year, one of the largest welfare systems in the country? That Sarah Palin not only presides over this, but also helped increase the amount of that annual payment through means of (at least, it seems to be from what I’ve read of it) a windfall profits tax on instate oil production?
kishnevi (0b0c9a) — 8/30/2008 @ 1:01 pmYou know, windfall profits tax–the sort of thing you expect from hard core Democrats? The tax that even Marxist Obama said wouldn’t work when Hillary proposed it?
Also, she spoke about intelligent design in terms that make it sound like she thinks it is a worthy intellectual alternative to evolution. The only people I’ve ever heard referring to ID in that matter have all been creationists. So until further evidence appears, I will hold her to be a creationist.
” It occurs to me that some on the right actually think that Obama is as inexperienced and as trivial a figure as Palin.”
Moreso. Palin doesn’t have to hide half her background or prohibit people from talking about it or asking questions about it. Unlike Obama, she’s not trying to hide anything.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/30/2008 @ 1:02 pmYes, if the most important thing for a voter is to support the pro-baby-killing ticket they can do that by supporting Obama, who ignorantly thinks when life begins is ‘above his pay grade’ and who opposed even a bill that would protect in law the born alive infants who were born in the process of botched late-term abortions. Some call it the pro-infanticide position. Whether that is the right term or not, Jill Staneks essays on this matter, and how Obama behaved in 2002 and 2003 when BAIPA came up in Illinois state senate, show a level of callousness that is repugnant.
A mother of five, one of whom is a DS baby, would have a heck of a lot more credibility on this whole topic than a man who didnt want to outlaw infanticide and who said he didnt want to ‘punish his kids with a baby’. kids are ‘punishment’?
If someone wants to shake up the fall debates, a question for Obama: An unmarried 18-year-old college girl gets pregnant accidently. Would you advise her to abort? If you could go back in time, would you have advised your mother to abort you, since she was in exactly that situation with you?
Freedoms Truth (cfa2f1) — 8/30/2008 @ 1:08 pmJar wrote:
You write as though they are a monolith, but that isn’t true. Some were choosing Mrs Clinton because they somehow thought that she’d somehow be like her husband. Some voted for Mrs Clinton simply because she had XX chromosomes. And the statistics suggest that some voted for Mrs Clinton because she was the last white candidate standing.
Some of the people who voted for Mrs Clinton in the primaries will vote for Mr Obama in November. Some of them will vote for John McCain. And some will either vote third party or not vote at all. The only questions to be answered: what percentages of those 18 million voters will fall into which category?
Which Dana is this? (556f76) — 8/30/2008 @ 1:09 pmkish…
Another Drew (f615b7) — 8/30/2008 @ 1:17 pmEvery state that has substantial oil production receives a royalty on that production. Alaska, from the get-go, established a policy that they would re-bate to their taxpayers, a certain percentage of that royalty.
In large part, this is tied to the fact that the State of Alaska has enormous amounts of land that is controlled by Washington, D.C. – I believe that it exceeds 75% of the total acreage of the State. They get no property tax off of that acreage, and therefore, the local property owners carry a big burden.
This is also, part & parcel, the argument that the Stevens/Young mafia make rationalizing the tremendous amounts, per-capita, of the ear-marks they try to bring back to the State.
Not being privy to Juneau politics, I don’t know the details of the latest rate of royalty that BP and the other oil co’s pay, but it is my understanding, that part of the deal was the aggressive manner in which the state dealt with Canada to get a Natural Gas pipeline from the North Slope, across Canada, to the Great Lakes Region – a pipeline that will directly benefit millions of American households dependent upon Natural Gas for home heating and cooking.
#72 Gov. Murkowski appointed his own daughter to replace him in the Senate. I didn’t follow that nepotism at the time. I think she’s married to someone at NRO? Goldberg maybe? Anyway how did she fare as Senator?
#78 Minn. icehole – so amusing, dems lose and it is always someone else robbing them? SCOTUS chose Bush? Even though Fla. SC was the one changing election laws ex post facto and algore wanted to cherry pick which counties to recount and recount and recount until he “won”? You go, girl. Oh, I know we should have ignored the electoral college because Fat AL won popular vote? And this dirty filthy neocons had dead peeps voting while striving to block military absentee ballots?
And of course Lurch was robbed in Ohio through massive irregularities in Ohio with Diebold machines.
The third time potential loss will be a combination of racism, outrageous lies about the Anointed One and Rethug fear mongering. Surely the time has arrived for an African American leader who combines the best character traits of Moses, Lincoln, Martin Luther King Junior, Chrissie (I get hard for Obama) and Keith (I wanna fellate Obama) Olberdouche. There’s a place in there somewhere for Andrea Mitchell also.
#84 JD surely you are privy to the vrwc/karl rove plans to suborn the election? Wouldn’t put it past BusHitler to institute martial law. Sh*t happens. Planes crash, people have massive myocardial infarctions, the National Enquirer comes out with nasty scoops on public figures. And I wondered what happened to that every twenty years death while in WH curse? Afterall dear Messiah’s frau says he as an AA is in great danger every time he goes to the gas station. Don’t you love hyperbole? Colin Powell’s wife feared for his life as POTUS too. I think racist America could well have elected him first black Prez. I have my doubts how effective he would have been but I’m sure he would have gotten a pass on the NOLA Katrina fiasco, which was exacerbated by Nagin and Blanco. I still hear from Euroweenies who bring up how Bush let people be raped and murdered en masse in the Super Dome.
Kind of reminds me how Mayor Goode alone in his admin. was teflon to charges of murdering the poor misunderstood back-to-nature assholes from MOVE in Philly (the second time around, later than the Rizzo era affair).
So the fact is even though McCain is up there in years, we have no idea of what is to be in the fullness of time.
madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 8/30/2008 @ 1:27 pmDrew–don’t the Federal lands in Alaska consist mostly of parks and wilderness (including ANWR)?
kishnevi (0b0c9a) — 8/30/2008 @ 1:38 pmAnd property tax is locally levied and collected (at least it is where I live). So I’m not sure that the state of Alaska is losing much, if any, property tax revenue, and I doubt that local property owners have to foot that big a bill to pay for services to large tracts of land that don’t require much in the way of services. Unless of course you are comparing the Federal lands to what they might produce in property taxes if they were privately owned and significantly developed–in which case you’d have to also take into account the cost required to supply the infrastructure (better roads and access to power and utilities)private development would require.
Of course, if I am right, that tends to knock the Stevens/Young line of thought on the head. However, from my POV (and I suspect yours) that a benefit.
As for the new royalty rates, as I understand it they were upped significantly, and the increase touted as a way to help Alaskans pay for their energy costs (which, I believe, are higher than most other places in the US because oil has to be refined outside Alaska and then shipped back for consumer use.) The description I saw made it sound like a windfall profits tax–but I was not (and am not) certain, which is why I included the qualifiers I did in my previous comment.
AD – Don’t go getting all fact-y on them.
JD (5f0e11) — 8/30/2008 @ 1:39 pmkishnevi,
Alaska doesn’t have a windfall profits tax. It has a severance tax just like every other oil-producing state. This Beldar post explains the difference.
DRJ (7568a2) — 8/30/2008 @ 1:54 pmJAR, really it is getting funnier how you are a cycle and a half behind on your talking points.
SPQR (26be8b) — 8/30/2008 @ 2:13 pmAlaska doesn’t have a windfall profits tax.
That’s at least debatable. Profits and prices aren’t in lockstep.
ConocoPhillips says Alaska captures about 75 percent of the value of a barrel.
steve (3d6981) — 8/30/2008 @ 2:16 pmkishnevi,
Incorrect. Welfare is based upon other criteria such as a person’s income; royalties are not. Characterizing Alaska’s royalties as welfare is a mistake.
Moreover, when a person gets welfare they generally demand more. But when they get royalties, they must consider that overdoing them would kill the goose that lays their golden egg, which is a much more reasonable/rational mindset, more akin to husbandry than to entitlement. Balance becomes the imperative, rather than extremism.
Palin is therefore correct in her general approach (albeit, I am not sure if the royalty levels are optimal or not and would need to investigate more before commenting on that detail).
ras (fc54bb) — 8/30/2008 @ 2:52 pmsteve,
I read your link and I don’t see anything that rebuts Beldar’s point that these are severance taxes. Unfortunately journalists have described the Alaskan tax as a windfall profits tax but that doesn’t make it so. It’s a graduated tax increase on production, a system that has been used in Alaska for some time, and it’s not a tax on excessive profits that Obama advocates.
DRJ (7568a2) — 8/30/2008 @ 2:54 pmkishnevi,
From Beldar’s post regarding whether Alaskan rebates are welfare:
DRJ (7568a2) — 8/30/2008 @ 2:56 pm”
#50 Seems to me that Palin is a ballsy kick ass campaigner if she managed to toss the entrenched sitting governor out on his corrupt ass. Would be so lovely if she and McCain managed to wreak some havoc in DC against the ubiquitous, sleazy special interests.”
Palin is that.
Palin is Quality. Biden is quantity.
McCain is a Hero. Obama is a ZERO.
Freedoms Truth (cfa2f1) — 8/30/2008 @ 2:59 pmkish…
Another Drew (4b90b4) — 8/30/2008 @ 3:14 pmOne of the great points of heartburn in the West, is the amount of land locked-up by the Federal Government (BLM/Nat’l Forest/Parks/Monuments/etc.) that is beyond the control of local entities.
During the Clinton Admin., Nye Co. NV even went so far as to arrest and jail Fed employees over a dispute on roads (NV BTW has an even higher % of its’ land owned by the Feds than AK, and Nye is the largest Co in NV).
This problem is a non-entity east of the Mississippi because, for the most part, there are no Fed Lands in those States. Public land in the colonies became State Land upon Independance, and in many of the subsequent granting of Statehood, the same proceedure was followed. In the West though, it was different; and great tracts of land are locked away by the Feds.
For more information, you might look up that think-tank that James Watt worked for before (and perhaps after – ?Rocky Mtn. Institute?, or something like that) he was Sec-Int. One of his goals was to return land to State jurisdiction, but there are too many power centers in the bureaucracy and on Capitol Hill to allow that.
Another point on royalties…
Another Drew (4b90b4) — 8/30/2008 @ 3:17 pmIf you check, you’ll see that royalties are determined on a per bbl. basis, and whether or not the co’s are making a profit is immaterial.
This is the same proceedure a private landowner would work with when granting a production lease-hold on his land. Of course, the State of Alaska has a little bit better negotiating position when it wants to re-open negotiations on same.
It’s a graduated tax increase on production
It’s a graduated tax on PRICE. Beldar correctly states that it’s not the same thing Obama is proposing, but it’s also distinguishable from the “severance tax” other jurisdictions impose.
From the article:
Adding in royalty fees and other taxes, ConocoPhillips says the government take equals less than 50 percent of the barrel produced from deepwater wells, while Alaska “captures about 75 percent of the value of a barrel.” [Ibid.]
steve (e8c6df) — 8/30/2008 @ 3:45 pmsteve @ 3:45…
Another Drew (5efac7) — 8/30/2008 @ 4:20 pmWell then, AK has driven a very smart bargain for its’ citizens, hasn’t it.
Or, we could be blaming them for the cost of gasoline in the lower-48.
DRJ–Thanks for the corrective on Alaska oil royalties and taxes. I should mention I saw one (unsourced) assertion that Palin’s plans include forcing the oil companies to work land the companies aren’t now using because they’re aren’t producable or at least profitable enough. I thought that was Pelosi’s brilliant idea.
Drew–still don’t quite see how all that federal land impacts property taxes. Unless the locals are thinking of tax money they could make off tracts that are being mined or forested?
kishnevi (8174b2) — 8/30/2008 @ 4:58 pmThose three jobs are simultaneous, which implies fairly strongly that they are part-time.
We know that he was first a Lecturer and then a Senior Lecturer at the University of Chicago Law School. Both are essentially the equivalent of Adjunct Professor at some other school; not tenure track and presumably paid by the course, although Senior Lecturer is somewhat more prestigious.
At his law firm, we have billing records for 4 years, which (if I recall correctly) show him billing just over 1100 hours per year on average. Any associate with that level of billing is clearly not a candidate for Partner, unless he has mystical powers as a rainmaker. A typical but ambitious associate would be billing 80 or more hours a week.
By the way, that total apparently includes pro bono hours working for ACORN and hours spent as the Chairman of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge.
In the Illinois legislature, he seems to have set the record for Present votes. I have no idea how often he was Absent, but from 1997 to 2002 he was working these other two jobs.
GaryC (cdcd10) — 8/30/2008 @ 11:51 pmAn associate at any law firm that is billing 1100 hours a year, is either on leave for six months or fired in September.
SPQR (26be8b) — 8/30/2008 @ 11:58 pmAccording to a post on MyDD, the Illinois Senate was in session for the following:
90th General Assembly – 1997-1998 – 118 days total
91st General Assembly – 1999-2000 – 112 days total
92nd General Assembly – 2001-2002 – 118 days total
93rd General Assembly – 2003-2004 – 161 days total
It is possible that he missed some days, but the maximum total number of days served is 509, or about 2 years of 5-day weeks.
GaryC (adfc4c) — 8/31/2008 @ 9:39 pm