US-Iraq Agree on Timeline for Troop Withdrawal
[Guest post by DRJ]
The AP reports US and Iraqi negotiators have entered into a draft agreement that contains a timetable for withdrawal of US troops from Iraq. Troop withdrawals are to begin June 30, 2009, with further withdrawals completed in 2011, although the ultimate end date may be subject to “conditions on the ground.”
The parties also accepted a strategic framework agreement that generally outlines “political, security and economic relationships between Iraq and the United States.” The draft agreements must be approved by President Bush on behalf of the US and by Iraqi leaders.
Reports to date indicate the big stumbling block was troop immunity but that issue has apparently been resolved:
“The official said a compromise had been worked out on the contentious issue of whether to provide U.S. troops immunity from prosecution under Iraqi law, but he did not give details. In Washington, the senior military official said the draft agreement reflects the U.S. position that the United States must retain exclusive legal jurisdiction over its troops in Iraq.”
Until recently, President Bush resisted a withdrawal timeline but I wonder if he decided it was better to negotiate withdrawal on his terms than risk the possibility a President Obama might be the negotiator. Also, my guess – and it is just a guess – is that the US traded away any right to reimbursement from Iraq’s oil revenues in exchange for troop immunity.
— DRJ
Great. Now Obama will be able to shift focus and inflict his health care plan on us from Day 1.
Icy Truth (c3eb22) — 8/20/2008 @ 10:57 pmIcy #1 – Although it will be difficult to shift focus away from Obama’s non-support of the surge, the rather overstated 100 year occupation, and the general success of the operation. The job is near done and we’re leaving, with no credit to B.O.
Apogee (366e8b) — 8/20/2008 @ 11:13 pmDRJ:
Considering Obama, pretty much set this deal up with Al Maliki’s blessing, I think it’s too late for Bush to do anything but go with the flow here. That Obama, is there anything he can’t do…and do right?
Excuse me, I have to go light a candle at the little alter I have set up for him right here next to my desk. Have you noticed how the sound OMMMM…OOOOMMMM…used in meditation is also the first syllable of Obama? More proof that the chosen one is perfect in every way.
Peter (e70d1c) — 8/20/2008 @ 11:22 pmHuh? With all due respect DRJ, that’s a bit nutty. What do yo think was the reason for attacking Iraq in the first place? Check out these big beautiful exclusive NO BID contracts for the five big oil Co’s (four American and one British).
Peter (e70d1c) — 8/20/2008 @ 11:23 pmDRJ, if the terms are as you suggest, then we was robbed. This so-called agreement should be held till the next administration takes office.
Let it become as issue in the election, I want to know who supports it, and who opposes it, and why. I want to hear what the candidates have to say about it.
Ropelight (4a83c9) — 8/20/2008 @ 11:37 pm#2 Apogee
Okay deal. Bush can take the credit for that gross strategic quagmire based on manipulated intel and lies and Obama can put his name on capturing and/or killing OBL, wiping AQ and the Taliban off the face of the earth, stabilizing the Middle East, getting the economy back on track and establishing national healthcare so people and businesses aren’t crippled by medical expenses and can instead invest in themselves and new opportunities for prosperity.
Peter (e70d1c) — 8/20/2008 @ 11:52 pmsince it was *never* about the oil, no matter how many a$$hats lied and caused Soldiers to die, it’s appropriate that things end this way.
Bush led the US to victory in Iraq, and that will gall the usual suspects years. i predict that generations of college types will spend their entire careers looking for loopholes to spin this as a US defeat.
/scum
redc1c4 (ae7a64) — 8/21/2008 @ 12:20 amApogee,
Not all of me attempts at humor come off as planned. Don’t know ’bout u, but I become more solidly convinced day-by-day that McCain WILL WIN.
Thank God
Icy Truth (c3eb22) — 8/21/2008 @ 12:22 amBaracky’s diplomacy has led to this grand agreement. Were it not for his leadership, we would be in a perpetual war with Oceana.
JD (75f5c3) — 8/21/2008 @ 7:21 amThere is no need for generations of college types will spend their entire careers looking for loopholes to spin this as a US defeat. They will ignore the facts and just keep chanting, “We lost, we lost, we lost.”
Today, Obama can say “Let’s be clear, our troops have completed every mission they’ve been given,” Mr. Obama said at the Veterans of Foreign Wars convention in Orlando, Fla., but he will go on in the campaign saying something else.
John Kerry still says that there were no negative consequences to the South Vietnamese from our defeat there. “There was no bloodbath.”
Obama is at least as capable of lying as Kerry.
Mike K (2cf494) — 8/21/2008 @ 7:24 am“Conditions on the ground” leaves an awful lot of leeway. Wouldn’t worry too much about this so-called “timeline”.
bio mom (a1e126) — 8/21/2008 @ 7:31 amSounds like it’s going Obama’s way. Poor McCain, what is he going to do now?
love2008 (0c8c2c) — 8/21/2008 @ 7:50 amOnly you could possibly spin that as going the Messiah’s way – McCain only has to keep pointing out who led the effort against funding the troops, and opposed the surge – every. step. of. the. way. So now that the Messiah says something completely at odds with everything he’s stated and acted on previously, the empty suit characterization fits to a tee. They’re going to cover him with crepe’ on a daily basis for that matter on the public record, count on it.
Dmac (874677) — 8/21/2008 @ 8:35 amDmac, thank him for illustrating how the lefties will handle this. One post like that is worth a thousand words of explanation.
Mike K (2cf494) — 8/21/2008 @ 8:48 am#9 was as predictable as the sun rising.
JD (75f5c3) — 8/21/2008 @ 8:51 amI’m not going to be predictable here. (well maybe somewhat)
However the troop withdrawal is done, I’m happy.
If Bush wants to call it a solid victory, and McCain wants to embrace that idea, so be it. More power to them, as long as our troops come home.
Oiram (983921) — 8/21/2008 @ 8:54 amPlease consider this in light of the Iraqi provincial elections coming on October 1st. Iraq has pols and parties dedicated to being seen as strong and forceful in their dealings with the US just as the Democrats have their Copperhead wing, dedicated to cut n’ run at any cost.
Captain Zero just had his main raison d’etre obviated. He and the cowards on his team can claim no laurels for something with which they were not involved.
Rick Ballard (0a8990) — 8/21/2008 @ 8:55 am“Poor McCain, what is he going to do now?”
Jacques Klompus (cf3660) — 8/21/2008 @ 8:56 amHmmm….perhaps continue to pick Obama apart and reveal what a colossal lightweight he is? Continue to feed Obama the bait and allow him to display what a remarkably underqualified candidate he is? Continue to show time and again why is the infinitely better man for the job?
lovie – I am curious as to how you see this as bad for McCain, and good for Baracky?
JD (5f0e11) — 8/21/2008 @ 9:05 amObama, with this victory in hand, can now focus on invading Pakistan, the central front of the war on terror.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/21/2008 @ 9:12 am#17
Interesting you bring that up Daley, McCain says he will follow Bin Ladden into the gates of hell……… of course he neglects to mention, ….. as long as he’s not in Pakistan…… where Bin Ladden might actually be.
Bin Ladden is just not a priority in the Republican party is he?
Oiram (983921) — 8/21/2008 @ 9:54 amProving yet again how incredibly un-serious Oiram is.
JD (75f5c3) — 8/21/2008 @ 10:04 am#19
Un-serious? JD? Didn’t McCain tell us he would follow Bin Ladden into the gates of hell?
He said he wouldn’t go to Pakistan didn’t he?
Good chance bin Ladden is in Pakistan.
Very good chance in fact.
Daley made a sarcastic remark about Obama wanting to invade Pakistan on #17 didn’t he?
Who’s being un-serious my friend?
Oiram (983921) — 8/21/2008 @ 10:11 amWell actually didn’t you guys get the memo? Obama mandated a troop withdrawal plan, and here Maliki and Dubya are just following the Enlightened One’s plan. As Nancy Pelosi has told us all, Obama is God’s gift to the United States. This is a big win for Obama!
Well that will go down well with some folks, and when they raise their hands, I’ve got some ocean front property in Arizona to sell them.
Mike Myers (31af82) — 8/21/2008 @ 10:11 amThat was not sarcastic. That is what Baracky said we should do.
JD (75f5c3) — 8/21/2008 @ 10:15 am#21
Well, when you ignorantly accuse Democrats of wanting to lose the war in Iraq, the unfortunate consequence is Obama being labeled as the “Enlightened one” as you put it.
You’ve got to be careful when you throw around loose statements like Defeatacrats. Sometimes it comes back to haunt you.
Don’t know if you threw those sentiments around. Sorry if you didn’t.
I’m not a Democrat who is saying Bush is finally coming around, read comment #13 if you like.
I’m just happy to see us finally pulling out.
Oiram (983921) — 8/21/2008 @ 10:18 am#22 JD,
Oiram (983921) — 8/21/2008 @ 10:21 amWhat Obama said he would do is bring the fight to Pakistan if Musharraf (no longer in office) failed to act on it’s own against Islamic extremist. Look it up.
Add on to #24, McCain would not want to go to Pakistan. Throwing Billions and billions at them like Bush has done is probably his best strategy.
Oiram (983921) — 8/21/2008 @ 10:22 am#19
Answer the question JD. Is Bin Laden a priority of the Republican party? Are you willing to risk your friendship with Pakistan and pursue him there, if indeed he is there? How important is catching OBL to the Reps? Is it a priority? At least Bush doesn’t think so:
“I don’t know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don’t care. It’s not that important. It’s not our priority.”
– G.W. Bush, 3/13/02
“I am truly not that concerned about him.”
love2008 (0c8c2c) — 8/21/2008 @ 10:25 am– G.W. Bush, repsonding to a question about bin Laden’s whereabouts,
3/13/02 (The New American, 4/8/02)
And, invading a nuclear ally would be a good idea, why?
JD (75f5c3) — 8/21/2008 @ 10:27 amTwo rival mountain climbers are near the summit on a moutain that’s never been climbed before. They step out of their tents into a storm. Climber O says that proceeding is too risky and decides to go back down the mountain to base camp. Climber M presses on and summits, then proceeds back down the mountain toward base camp.
Observer L notes that since climber M is heading toward base camp where “climber” O already waits, this expedition has been better for O.
Everyone laughs at Observer L as they congratulate climber M.
MartyH (52fae7) — 8/21/2008 @ 10:28 am#27, It would not be a good idea to invade Pakistan if they didn’t cooperate with us.
Once again, I crack up at how much you think McCain is tougher on terrorism than Obama, yet you allow McCain to get away with silly statements (Gates of Hell). That was one of the statements that made everyone think he won the discussion at saddleback.
Oiram (983921) — 8/21/2008 @ 10:45 amI wish I had time to compose a lengthy response as to why that is not so, or in the alternative, why that answer was illustrative, not because of the specific words, but because of the idea behind it.
JD (75f5c3) — 8/21/2008 @ 11:07 am#28, hey Marty, in your analogy there, I don’t see anything about the reason for climbing the mountain in the first place when there were plenty of other priorities that needed to be accomplished.
All the observers are not laughing at anyone. Depressed is more like it.
Oiram (983921) — 8/21/2008 @ 11:15 am#30
JD, I can sympathize with you on the “time” factor. Been there myself. 🙁
The rest of your comment…….. not so much. 🙁
Oiram (983921) — 8/21/2008 @ 11:17 amHave you seen how many top Taliban and AQ figures, have met their maker in the last few weeks. That is the point of using predators and Special Forces; not large land forces, that the Brits used for their 100 year stay in the NorthWest Frontier.
narciso (c36902) — 8/21/2008 @ 11:19 amSo this is another one of Bambi’s carefully crafted responses along the lines of “above my pay grade.”
In other words, Bambi is sure to answer something that commits him to nothing.
Zero for Zero, he is.
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/21/2008 @ 11:21 amOiram-
McCain was hyberbolic but we understand the sentiment because we saw McCain advocate this policy in supporting the surge. Thanks in part to McCain, we chased bin Laden’s minions from the hell on earth they were creating in Anbar.
MartyH (52fae7) — 8/21/2008 @ 11:22 am#28
love2008 (1b037c) — 8/21/2008 @ 11:27 amWho do you think looks more fit to climb mountains between Obama and McCain? McCain? 🙂
Marty #35
Oiram (983921) — 8/21/2008 @ 11:27 amCan you say with certainty that Bin Ladden was creating hell on earth in Anbar?
Can you say with certainty Bin Laden is in Pakistan? Facts? Links? Not speculation? Or are you just quoting others who think or feel it’s true?
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/21/2008 @ 11:37 am#34, cracks me up. Obama is called the messiah by many of you, not Miller, he just calls him Bambi (how cute) :).
When Obama asserts himself as not being the one to judge us on abortion, you all jump all over him.
You do know what he meant by “above my pay grade” right?
He’s not God.
Oiram (983921) — 8/21/2008 @ 11:39 amBy the way, where is “the gates of hell” located? Do we know now the exact location? Some say it is somewhere in Pakistan. Between the borders with Afghanistan. Where is the Gates of Hell because finding it is the key to finding OBL! According to McCain.
love2008 (1b037c) — 8/21/2008 @ 11:44 am“Daley made a sarcastic remark about Obama wanting to invade Pakistan on #17 didn’t he?”
Oiram – I was making fun of Obama’s incredibly stupid remark about invading a nuclear armed neighbor of Afghanistan without permission. It’s yoo bad you don’t understand the context and then have to take a metaphoric statement like following someone into the gates of hell literally. It must be a luxury to pick and choose which statements you can pretend to understand.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/21/2008 @ 11:44 amYep, those danged metaphors. They are so hard to understand.
“Above my pay grade” means ALWAYS “this is God’s decision” and never means “I’m just passing the buck.” (
BambiThe man was asked whether they have RIGHTS, which is NOT above his so-called “pay grade.”)“Gates of Hell” ALWAYS means “a literal doorstop between Limbo and the Inferno.”
Amelia Bedelia must have been a very unfunny book to you all.
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/21/2008 @ 11:46 amI see lovey is taking McCain’s statement literally as well. Bravo, but she doesn’t understand the plain meaning of the word “lie.” This post modern progressive multicultural shit is great. You gotta get a whole new dictionary to understand people. Plain english doesn’t work anymore.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/21/2008 @ 11:47 am#41
Wow Daley!
I love this, this is great!!!
I’m shocked, you are admitting to all here that we should not have taken McCain literally with “Gates of Hell”.
Hopefully America will think the way you do too on this one single issue, Obama will have a solid chance 🙂
It’s going to be a good day after all.
Oiram (983921) — 8/21/2008 @ 11:50 am“Amelia Bedelia must have been a very unfunny book to you all.”
Jacques Klompus (cf3660) — 8/21/2008 @ 11:50 amLOL! Loved her. Also loved the Five Chinese Brothers and Where the Wild Things Are.
Yeah, we’ll just focus on the “above my pay grade” response as a way to weasel out of an answer on when a baby gets human rights. That’s sure not something anyone has any opinions on. We just all sit around waiting for God to speak; while he’s silent, we do…what, exactly? Nothing?
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/21/2008 @ 11:52 amJack Klompus (I refuse to use that French crap) – My favorite is “I’ll Love You Forever”.
JD (75f5c3) — 8/21/2008 @ 12:00 pm#41
Wow Daley!
I love this, this is great!!!
Oiram – You must must still be misunderstanding if you think it’s great. It undermines your position rather than reinforces it.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/21/2008 @ 12:05 pmShouldn’t the question read:
Another Drew (b53d17) — 8/21/2008 @ 12:08 pmWhere are the “Gates of Hell?
Oiram has had this pointed out to him repeatedly, but even Bambi’s own words have not penetrated Oiram’s skull. He keeps going back to that well, which is really an empty bucket in a sandbox.
Pablo (99243e) — 8/21/2008 @ 12:10 pm49. I always thought of them as the toll booths that said “Welcome to New Jersey.”
Jackee "227" Klompus (cf3660) — 8/21/2008 @ 12:10 pmLiteral to you barking moonbats seems to mean if bin laden is in Moscow, McCain will send the Big Red One into downtown Moscow to go fetch him. He won’t do shit like that. Take a breath.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/21/2008 @ 12:11 pm“(BambiThe man was asked whether they have RIGHTS, which is NOT above his so-called “pay grade.”)”
For a man who bills himself as a constitutional scholar, the question should not be above his pay grade. It was a blatant evasion.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/21/2008 @ 12:14 pmOne of the reasons I parse Bambi’s words is that I cannot simply look at what he has done as a predictor of what he will do, because he essentially has done – zero.
Where are the bills he’s submitted as a member of the majority party in the Senate?
I can find lots of words he’s spoken. But little action.
So I look at this Man of Words to find whether what he says makes sense, and to find what his words tell about his character.
A man who votes “Present” at tough votes is a weasel.
A man who says “above my pay grade” when asked “when does a baby get human rights” is a weasel.
A man who forbids anyone to question his patriotism [is anyone doing that specifically?] is a weasel.
I know the simile isn’t exact, because the image of Bambi is so terribly accurate – frightened, naive, and very self-sure. Still, he’s a weasel.
When the Senator from Illinois suddenly cries out “MOTHER!” during a tough time on the election circuit, then we’ll know just how Bambi-like he is.
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/21/2008 @ 12:17 pmOiram-
My mountain climbing analogy was quickly thrown together. The better analogy is that M and O sit on the board that is funding the expedition, and P is the actual expedition leader who judges the severity of the storm and recommends they push on. M, a climber himself, agrees, while O, who has seen pictures of mountains, says that they should go back to base camp. The board votes for P to push on, and he does successfully. Observer L says that since they would have ended up in base camp regardless of whose recommendation they followed, the outcome is the same.
Regarding Anbar, I thought that the competing explanation to “the surge worked” was “AQ was so evil that the Anbari’s would have rejected them anyway.” If you are going to assert that AQ was not creating hell on earth, then the surge is the sole reason for the drop in violence in Anbar.
MartyH (52fae7) — 8/21/2008 @ 12:21 pm54. I thought that all of those examples signify “nuance” and “complexity,” important traits that simple-minded, trigger-happy senile fools like McCain apparently lack.
Jackee "227" Klompus (cf3660) — 8/21/2008 @ 12:23 pmBin Ladden is just not a priority in the Republican party is he?
Comment by Oiram
The last thing bin Laden will see, if he is still alive and that is in doubt, will be the rocket exhaust flame of a Hellfire missile. We are not going to march into Pakistan like Bambi seems to think. We are going to have a quiet understanding with the Paks that those explosions that occur from time to time up in the tribal areas on the Afghan border are Allah clearing His throat and nobody knows exactly what happened.
Can you understand that ? Or do I need to draw a picture ?
Mike K (f89cb3) — 8/21/2008 @ 12:24 pmLet me put this question to you. When does life begin for a child? Since it is above Obama’s pay grade to answer that question, maybe some of you can help out. When does life begin for a child?
love2008 (1b037c) — 8/21/2008 @ 12:24 pmComment by love2008 — 8/21/2008 @ 12:24 pm
Life begins for any human being at the moment of fertilization, aka conception.
no one you know (1f5ddb) — 8/21/2008 @ 12:26 pmlove2008,
what is your answer to your question?
no one you know (1f5ddb) — 8/21/2008 @ 12:26 pmHow about answering the question Obama dodged, lovey? At what point does a baby get human rights in your view?
Pablo (99243e) — 8/21/2008 @ 12:26 pmJackee “227” Klompus
You just made me LOL in a quiet office!
L.N. Smithee (ecc5a5) — 8/21/2008 @ 12:27 pmAt the same time as it does for all mammels:
Another Drew (b53d17) — 8/21/2008 @ 12:28 pmAt the moment of conception!
62. LN – Right back at you reading your latest blog entry!
Jackee "227" Klompus (cf3660) — 8/21/2008 @ 12:32 pm#60
love2008 (1b037c) — 8/21/2008 @ 12:38 pmMy answer is the same as yours. At the moment of conception. And #61, I believe that life itself is a right of its own. A baby gets its right at conception. Question is, how much right?
Next question, since life begins at conception, does it mean that all forms of abortion is murder?
Next question, since life begins at conception, does it mean that all forms of abortion is murder?
Comment by love2008 — 8/21/2008 @ 12:38 pm
Yes, except miscarriage, medical term for which is “spontaneous abortion” (unless brought on by someone hitting the pregant mom, etc). That I would not classify as murder, but an accident.
no one you know (1f5ddb) — 8/21/2008 @ 12:44 pm#55
Daley Wrote:
“Literal to you barking moonbats seems to mean if bin laden is in Moscow, McCain will send the Big Red One into downtown Moscow to go fetch him. He won’t do shit like that. Take a breath.”
Why should I take a breath Daley? McCain appears to have completely embraced Bush policy. Your above statement is as ridiculous as going into Iraq to eradicate Al Queda which never existed their in the first place.
Oiram (983921) — 8/21/2008 @ 12:46 pmJust to be clear: I prefer to call it “killing” (it certainly is that) since “murder” is a legal term and abortion is, for the moment, legal.
Also, as the famous pro-life feminist Frederica Matthewes-Green says, “A woman wants an abortion like an animal caught in a trap wants to gnaw off its own leg,” acknowledging the truth that many, many women feel forced by circumstances or pressuring others to commit abortion.
And (for the above reason) since I usually include this info in threads which start to involve abortion, if someone reading this is regretting an abortion they had or helped in, and need free and confidential help, here it is. Many women and men stand ready to help.
Hope After Abortion site (free and confidential)
no one you know (1f5ddb) — 8/21/2008 @ 12:51 pm#58, I’m on a busy schedule here Marty. Too many responses to get to.
Sorry if I had to stop reading at:
“My mountain climbing analogy was quickly thrown together.”
Thanks for stopping by though.
Oiram (983921) — 8/21/2008 @ 12:52 pmpressuring others = others who are pressuring them to take an “easy, legal” way out
no one you know (1f5ddb) — 8/21/2008 @ 12:53 pm“Why should I take a breath Daley? McCain appears to have completely embraced Bush policy. Your above statement is as ridiculous as going into Iraq to eradicate Al Queda which never existed their in the first place.”
Oiram – What does McCain’s gates of hell comment mean to you?
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/21/2008 @ 12:56 pm#71
love2008 (1b037c) — 8/21/2008 @ 12:57 pmThank you for your candid answers.
#62, Just out of curiosity: Is it possible to end life in an electric chair?
Oiram (983921) — 8/21/2008 @ 12:59 pm#62, Just out of curiosity: Is it possible to end life in an electric chair?
Comment by Oiram — 8/21/2008 @ 12:59 pm
Do you mean, is it possible to end a human’s life by electrocuting them to death in an electric chair? Yes.
If the purpose of your question is to determine whether I’m prolife on the death penalty, the answer is yes, meaning that I’m against it unless the imprisoned criminal is unable to be sufficiently restrained and will continue to threaten the lives of others unless killed first. (This is BTW the Catholic Church’s position – see Evangelium Vitae, or The Gospel of Life. )
Was there another reason for your question? Sorry if I misunderstood ir.
no one you know (1f5ddb) — 8/21/2008 @ 1:03 pmOiram – I do not believe Al Qaeda was mentioned in the Iraq AUMF and am curious why you keep bring it up.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/21/2008 @ 1:04 pmLove2008, it’s no use. They like to joke that he is the messiah, but when he Obama says “Below his pay grade” indicating that he is not God, they castrate him.
Obama has no chance in this room. But we should keep at it, because if they leave this room or dare I say try their balloney in the real world face to face, they might think twice about spreading crap based on some of our logic.
Oiram (983921) — 8/21/2008 @ 1:06 pmSteve Miller #54 – Well Done.
#23 – when you ignorantly accuse Democrats of wanting to lose the war in Iraq
You’re correct. Democrats didn’t want to lose the war, they asserted, incorrectly, that “We’ve already lost” – Harry Reid – 4/19/07
Apogee (366e8b) — 8/21/2008 @ 1:07 pmI’ll try here. Click for hilarious.
nk (3c7a86) — 8/21/2008 @ 1:07 pmI wouldn’t even think once about doing that, Oiram.
Pablo (99243e) — 8/21/2008 @ 1:10 pm#54 should read #57
Apogee (366e8b) — 8/21/2008 @ 1:10 pm#77 No that was the question. Thank you. I have nothing but respect for your answer, as well as the consistency of the Catholic church when it comes to abortion and the death penalty.
Just out of curiosity,
Oiram (983921) — 8/21/2008 @ 1:11 pmAre you o.k. with McCain’s inconsistency?
Love2008, it’s no use. They like to joke that he is the messiah, but when he Obama says “Below his pay grade” indicating that he is not God, they castrate him.
Comment by Oiram — 8/21/2008 @ 1:06 pm
When Obama says “it’s above my pay grade” to answer the question of when, in his view, (that was the form of the question if you recall) a baby gets human rights, he showed clearly he was dodging the question. He was asked for his view and he declined to give it.
The alternative is rather too gruesome to contemplate: that he has given no thought to this issue, not enough to have a view anyway, and still he voted for every kind of abortion (100% NARAL rating, remember), and even to ensure the death of a born-alive baby if abortion was intended.
As Ronald Reagan used to put it, if you see a paper bag in the middle of the road and are told it might contain a baby, and you don’t bother to find out but run over it with your car anyway, is that wrong? Of course it is.
no one you know (1f5ddb) — 8/21/2008 @ 1:11 pmJust out of curiosity,
Are you o.k. with McCain’s inconsistency?
Comment by Oiram — 8/21/2008 @ 1:11 pm
I don’t like the fact that McCain is for the death penalty. I wish he were prolife on that too. I also know that there are millions upon millions more children killed by abortion worldwide than there are adults killed by the death penalty each year.
In addition, at least a case can be made (though I do not agree with it) that by killing another in cold blood, a person has forfeited his right to live according to the state. No such case can be made for a completely innocent baby. It is an unmitigated, completely undeserved, massive injustice visited on the child.
no one you know (1f5ddb) — 8/21/2008 @ 1:15 pmThey like to joke that he is the messiah, but when he Obama says “Below his pay grade” indicating that he is not God, they castrate him.
Maybe he is only implying that he is a small god. As for castrating him, Emil Jones has lready had his left testicle with his scrambled eggs and Mayor Daley his right with his Wheaties.
nk (3c7a86) — 8/21/2008 @ 1:18 pm#80 Steve,
Bin ladden may be tired of pooping in a cave, but make no mistake, he has been jumping up and down happily over our actions confronting him and what we’ve done against him.
We should of attacked him as a criminal, not as a country.
Oiram (983921) — 8/21/2008 @ 1:20 pmSmall gods. Africa is full of them.
nk (3c7a86) — 8/21/2008 @ 1:21 pmOiram – Are you planning on answering what McCain’s hates of hell comment actually means to you or continue avoiding it?
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/21/2008 @ 1:24 pmI’ll try here. Click for hilarious.
Comment by nk — 8/21/2008 @ 1:07 pm
Now THAT is pretty freakin’ funny. LOL
no one you know (1f5ddb) — 8/21/2008 @ 1:27 pmThanks, Oiram. Dr. Pepper burns when it comes flying out your nose.
JD (75f5c3) — 8/21/2008 @ 1:27 pm#88
Proof?
Or just “I think it’s so, so it is so.”
Even King Canute was not so sure of his ability to hold back the tides.
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/21/2008 @ 1:28 pmThanks for your naive honesty.
JD (75f5c3) — 8/21/2008 @ 1:29 pmOiram-
We tried to tackle Bin Laden as a criminal, remember? We asked The Taliban to hand him over before we went into Afghanistan. They refused. When we went in, we went in with Special Forces ad relied on local allies (the Northern Alliance). This is more akin to a police action than a military invasion. Of course, when we did not get Bin Laden at Tora Bora, the accustation was because we went in too light.
MartyH (52fae7) — 8/21/2008 @ 1:30 pmDon’t forget that the Clinton administration had opportunities to take Osama in when Somalia was ready to serve him up on a platter. Would that have stopped 911? Who knows, but seems Osama has not been having very many victory celebrations since 911, eh? How are his kidneys and that vast fortune doing? Does he enjoy living in a cave?
madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 8/21/2008 @ 1:49 pm#’s 94 and 95. I was referring to Iraq when I spoke of a “country”.
Could either of you say with complete certainty what Iraq had to do with Bin Laden?
Oiram (983921) — 8/21/2008 @ 1:50 pmLOL #96, as I said Madmax, I’m sure bin Laden doesn’t enjoy pooping in a cave.
The Clinton administration would of had to take out innocent civilians in order to take out bin laden. Was that warranted pre 9/11?
Oiram (983921) — 8/21/2008 @ 1:52 pmCan anyone say with complete certainty where Bin Laden is right now?
Not just “well, I think he’s in a cave.”
Certainty.
Otherwise, it’s best to preface such opinions with “I think” or “I believe.”
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/21/2008 @ 1:56 pmWhy should I take a breath Daley? McCain appears to have completely embraced Bush policy. Your above statement is as ridiculous as going into Iraq to eradicate Al Queda which never existed their in the first place.
Who said the purpose of going into Iraq was to eradicate Al Queda?
Gerald A (ebb8b5) — 8/21/2008 @ 1:59 pm#98…
WJC did kill innocent civilians in attempting to attack OBL, both in Sudan and Afghanistan.
And, this was after the Sudanese Gov’t offered to give OBL to us, but Billy-boy said he didn’t have a legal case to accept him – or some such crap.
Thank you, Mr. President!
Another Drew (b53d17) — 8/21/2008 @ 1:59 pmTake out? Somali officials were going to hand his mangy ass over is the way I recall it, but I could be wrong. Yes, it reminds me of the crackerjack job Clinton did with Somalia. Troops requested some armor and were turned down. BlackHawk Down showed how libs feel about providing adequate troops and materiel. Pity John F’n Kerry wasn’t potus to further feck up the armed services and persue legal remedies to terror after 2004. But then maybe Osama would have called off the highjackings in fear of having warrants issued for his arrest by a tough Algore admin. in 2001? What would be the controlling legal authority? Face it, many liberals are wusses and hate America/blame America first. Let’s follow Europussy legal theories and huddle with them and the great UN.
madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 8/21/2008 @ 2:01 pm#93, you want proof?
Take a look at the consequences of our actions in Iraq in the name of 9/11.
I don’t even want you to look at what we’ve done to them, just what we’ve done to ourselves.
500 billion dollar defecit (and counting)
Jobless rate climbing.
Extremely weak dollar (68cents last time I checked)
Gas prices have more than tripled.
We look like fools when we tell Russia “Nations don’t invade other Nations!”
Foreclosures
Word Respect.
There’s so much more, but I only have so much room and time 🙁
Bin Laden poops in a cave, but make no mistake he also jumps up and down joyfully at what he has created in the u.s…… or rather what we have let him create. 🙁
Oiram (983921) — 8/21/2008 @ 2:04 pmI’m sorry, but even though I’m not a lawyer, I think fantasy isn’t the same thing as proof.
Thanks for playing.
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/21/2008 @ 2:05 pmIf OBL is reading this, I would hope that at his next celebration, he turns on that cam-corder of his, and sends the video over to Al-Jazerah so that we might all enjoy it.
Another Drew (b53d17) — 8/21/2008 @ 2:07 pmI know the Oiram will order copies.
By the way, here’s a hint:
When you write something as nonsensical as “Word respect,” you might want to, you know, proof-read your stuff.
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/21/2008 @ 2:07 pmBin ladden may be tired of pooping in a cave, but make no mistake, he has been jumping up and down happily over our actions confronting him and what we’ve done against him.
We should of attacked him as a criminal, not as a country.
What does any of that mean?
Gerald A (ebb8b5) — 8/21/2008 @ 2:09 pmGerald, it means:
“Look! I can type on my computer while mom’s not home!”
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/21/2008 @ 2:10 pm#100
“Who said the purpose of going into Iraq was to eradicate Al Queda?”
The Bush administration has led us to believe that.
Oiram (983921) — 8/21/2008 @ 2:11 pmAnd make no mistake about it, if things had gone smooth in Iraq from the get go, he would of let us think that Al Queda was eradicated.
So you’re building an imaginary history AND an imaginary future?
Cool!
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/21/2008 @ 2:12 pmI see the Bobo Dolls have become quite agitated lately – balling up their tiny hands and throwing spittle and vague assertions at their keyboards. Could it be because their sweet young thing is thisclose to getting his backside handed to him? It’s difficult to finally have to face being a grown – up, and realizing that the world is not full of fluffy clouds and bunnies. Awwww – there, there; don’t you worry, it will all be over soon, and Daddy will once again clean up your mess. Daddy is also going to make Junior go up to his room for the next four years, and try to do much better on his homework assignments from the Senate.
Dmac (874677) — 8/21/2008 @ 2:12 pmTake a look at the consequences of our actions in Iraq in the name of 9/11.
I don’t even want you to look at what we’ve done to them, just what we’ve done to ourselves.
500 billion dollar defecit (and counting)
Jobless rate climbing.
Extremely weak dollar (68cents last time I checked)
Gas prices have more than tripled.
We look like fools when we tell Russia “Nations don’t invade other Nations!”
Foreclosures
Word Respect.
You sound like an airhead. Other than contributing to the deficit, the rest of it has nothing to with Iraq. Hey you forgot to include Britney Spears’ problems. They’re the result of Iraq too!!
Gerald A (ebb8b5) — 8/21/2008 @ 2:13 pm“Who said the purpose of going into Iraq was to eradicate Al Queda?”
The Bush administration has led us to believe that.
And make no mistake about it, if things had gone smooth in Iraq from the get go, he would of let us think that Al Queda was eradicated.
No they didn’t.
Gerald A (ebb8b5) — 8/21/2008 @ 2:14 pm“he has been jumping up and down happily over our actions confronting him and what we’ve done against him.”
Jackee "227" Klompus (cf3660) — 8/21/2008 @ 2:14 pmIs that so? Judging by his videos that he’s allegedly been cranking out, it doesn’t look like he’s been particularly gleeful with the way things have been going for his mighty jihad lately. Unless you have some inside scoop on his celebrations to back your ridiculous claim.
“Word Respect.”
Is that you, Aretha?
Dmac (874677) — 8/21/2008 @ 2:15 pmJackee, the tool will completely misrepresent what someone says & then say it “proves” his point (see his mendacity about Bambi’s non-answer to the question of “when does a baby get human rights?”).
He feels free to make up stuff & then call it fact.
Should you wish to get proof from such a tool, you’ll have to carefully think what his standards are. His “proofs” are more like cotton-candy clouds of imagination.
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/21/2008 @ 2:17 pm“You sound like an airhead.”
What do you mean, “sound like?”
Dmac (874677) — 8/21/2008 @ 2:17 pm#117
Word
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/21/2008 @ 2:18 pmOther consequences of our Iraq policy:
Hurricane Katrina
Jackee "227" Klompus (cf3660) — 8/21/2008 @ 2:21 pmGigli
The Spanish-American War
childhood obesity
global warming
the Seattle Mariners
Camden, New Jersey
Eh, what the hell we’ve all been down this argumentative road before. My head hurts as I’m sure your does as well.
We’ve all made up our minds.
I guess will know how Americans feel shortly in November.
Whatever the outcome, I hope for greatness from our country and it’s leaders, as I know you all do as well.
Peace
Oiram (983921) — 8/21/2008 @ 2:25 pmthe Seattle Mariners
Camden, New Jersey
Comment by Jackee “227” Klompus — 8/21/2008 @ 2:21 pm
LOL
no one you know (1f5ddb) — 8/21/2008 @ 2:26 pm#121, (I have to laugh at myself too) That one was pretty funny Jackee.
Oiram (983921) — 8/21/2008 @ 2:32 pmI have a baseball fan friend who moved to Washington state. Trying to make the best out of not being able to see his beloved Phillies he said, “Well Seattle has a major league team…sort of…”
Jackee "227" Klompus (cf3660) — 8/21/2008 @ 2:36 pmI particulary enjoyed the Spanish – American War reference in that post. Because as we all know, TR was a racist.
Dmac (874677) — 8/21/2008 @ 2:43 pmJackee, don’t forget:
– Rosie O’Donnell/The View
– Wal-Mart
– New Coke
– Rielle Hunter
– That Super-High-Tech European Collider Thingy that’s going to cause the end the world
🙂
Not David Ehrenstein (dc65ab) — 8/21/2008 @ 2:45 pmThe E.T. video game for Atari
Jackee "227" Klompus (cf3660) — 8/21/2008 @ 2:49 pmThe Reggie Bar
Small Wonder (TV show)
The K-Car collection from Chrysler
The Darfur Crisis
Barney
JD (5f0e11) — 8/21/2008 @ 3:02 pmHannah Montana
The It’s A Small World ride at Disney
The Chicago Cubs
Levi
Kyle Busch
I see the Bobo Dolls have become quite agitated lately – balling up their tiny hands and throwing spittle and vague assertions at their keyboards.
LOL! Dmac, I love it when you talk Chicago!
Dana (b4a26c) — 8/21/2008 @ 3:03 pmAnd, Kyoto.
JD (5f0e11) — 8/21/2008 @ 3:04 pmBut not Halliburton.
Racists
Hey whatever happen to Levi (dare I ask?)
Jackee "227" Klompus (cf3660) — 8/21/2008 @ 3:08 pmDavid Petranos Esp
JD (5f0e11) — 8/21/2008 @ 3:10 pmMKDP
lovie
Hey whatever happen to Levi (dare I ask?)
Comment by Jackee “227” Klompus — 8/21/2008 @ 3:08 pm
In moderation “for insults to DRJ” IIRC.
no one you know (1f5ddb) — 8/21/2008 @ 3:15 pm132. I thought the air smelled a lot more pleasant in here recently.
Jackee "227" Klompus (cf3660) — 8/21/2008 @ 3:20 pmYeah.
Are there leftists who can argue their points cogently and with data?
I don’t count the loveboat or the tool as leftists. I also don’t count their opinions as any form of argument other than “did not!”
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/21/2008 @ 3:28 pm“The Chicago Cubs”
Yeah…hey, wait a minute!.
Dmac (874677) — 8/21/2008 @ 3:29 pmsorry, Dmac. But it is the 100 Year Anniversary of their last World Series title. 100 freakin’ years. That has to smart just a little …
JD (5f0e11) — 8/21/2008 @ 3:35 pm*yawn*
TLove (012115) — 8/21/2008 @ 3:40 pmTlove – how goes it ?!
JD (5f0e11) — 8/21/2008 @ 3:42 pmI’m great. I am getting to like not working a little too much I think…
TLove (012115) — 8/21/2008 @ 3:44 pmI think Scott gave up on you in favor of a power lifter from Belaurus, or a Chilean pole vaulter, something like that … 😉
You can cry on my shoulder, should you need to do so 😉
JD (5f0e11) — 8/21/2008 @ 3:45 pmhehehe. I’ve been out and about, not too much time online. I think I offended him with my lack of knowledge regarding computer lingo..all my questions like “what’s BBIAB?” and “what’s AFK?”
TLove (012115) — 8/21/2008 @ 3:47 pmEnjoy your time off. I am assuming it was earned, and well deserved.
And quit daydreaming about me.
JD (5f0e11) — 8/21/2008 @ 3:58 pmI am trying. It aint easy… 😀
TLove (012115) — 8/21/2008 @ 4:03 pm#90, Looks like I have time for one more.
Daley asks: “Are you planning on answering what McCain’s hates of hell comment actually means to you or continue avoiding it?”
Well, it means to me that he’ll do whatever it takes to get Bin Laden. I take it at face value. A lot of people here are not. That puzzles me.
If you don’t take it at face value…… what do you base your vote on?
Seems strange to me.
Oiram (983921) — 8/21/2008 @ 4:16 pm#142
love2008 (0c8c2c) — 8/21/2008 @ 4:21 pmSexist!
It’s hard to follow an argument that makes no sense.
“Hates of hell” ?
Whut?
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/21/2008 @ 4:48 pmOiram-
When Hillary suspended her campaign, Obama said, “This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal.”
This means that the mere act of Obama getting the nomination causes GAIA, the Holy Mother of us all to beat back the human disease that has beset her.
If you don’t take it at face value, what do you base your vote on?
MartyH (52fae7) — 8/21/2008 @ 4:59 pm#146
love2008 (1b037c) — 8/21/2008 @ 5:20 pm“Hates of hell” should be “Gates of Hell” But I am sure you knew that.
The standard is, when someone misspeaks, they are forever tied to it. And if someone speaks in one context but it is much better in another, then that second context is used.
For example, if Rick Warren says “Cone of Silence,” and McCain hams it up on a softball question, then OBVIOUSLY MCCAIN CHEATED and we need to keep raising that question.
Now, you wouldn’t know of anyone that kept doing that on this blog even after being gently reminded to back off a known falsehood, would you?
If you need help with this, I can arrange to get you a mirror.
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/21/2008 @ 5:25 pm#149
love2008 (1b037c) — 8/21/2008 @ 5:33 pmFunny. When I look at that mirror, you appear.
Not possible. I am much handsomer. And thinner.
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/21/2008 @ 5:35 pm#151
love2008 (1b037c) — 8/21/2008 @ 5:38 pmMuch handsomer than whom?
Anyone who thinks they see me when they look in their own mirror. There is a confusion there between ground and consequent.
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/21/2008 @ 5:40 pmOk.
love2008 (1b037c) — 8/21/2008 @ 5:49 pmThe E.T. video game for Atari
I must have wasted a month trying to even figure out how to win that damned game when I got it for my birthday way back when. It was all just run around, fall in a hole, try to levitate out… I heard years later that it was the product of a combined total of 80 hours of coding.
Taltos (4dc0e8) — 8/21/2008 @ 8:36 pmI still have my Atari…darn thing just broke. I am trying to revive it. I need my Pitfall! fix.
TLove (012115) — 8/22/2008 @ 12:10 amDownload an Atari emulator for the PC.
Icy Truth (f4d960) — 8/22/2008 @ 12:38 amThat is soooo not as fun.
TLove (012115) — 8/22/2008 @ 10:55 amMaybe, but it can be more challenging when you have to use a keyboard instead of a controller.
Icy Truth (48f459) — 8/22/2008 @ 11:03 amNo way! Half the fun of those Atari games is the crappy controller. You’d move the stick and sometimes it would work, sometimes you’d end up alligator food. SOOOOO fun.
TLove (012115) — 8/22/2008 @ 11:09 amThe home version of Pac Man was no prize either. A lot of pissed off kids that Christmas of 1983.
Monterey Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 8/22/2008 @ 11:10 amI loved that game back then! Of course, I was 5…
TLove (012115) — 8/22/2008 @ 11:19 am