The Saddleback Forum Unofficial Transcript
[Guest post by DRJ]
Did John McCain know beforehand the questions Rick Warren planned to ask? I don’t know but we can identify which questions are involved.
The Saddleback Church Civil Forum unofficial transcript has been posted in MS Word and text formats. Each Q&A period lasted 1 hour and there are 6 links — 3 for Obama and 3 for McCain. Thus, it’s likely that each transcript link covers approximately 1/3 of an hour or 20 minutes.
According to ABC News, Rick Warren’s spokesman, the McCain campaign, and other sources indicate John McCain arrived at the Forum at 5:20-5:30 PM PST. Rick Warren would have been about 1/3 to 1/2 of the way through his Q&A session with Barack Obama. Here’s a link to a transcript of the first 1/3 of Obama’s Q&A session, and the following are the questions (in order) from the transcript:
Question No. 1.
(5:04 PM PST/7:04 PM CST per Ann Althouse)
“THESE FIRST SET OF QUESTIONS DEAL WITH YOUR PERSONAL LIFE AS A LEADER AND I’M NOT GOING TO DO THIS WITH ANY OTHER SEGMENT, BUT AS PASTOR I’VE GOT SOME VERSES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH LEADERSHIP. THE FIRST ISSUE IS THE AREA OF LISTENING. THERE IS A VERSUS IN PROVERBS THAT SAYS FOOLS THINK THEY NEED NO ADVICE BUT WISE LISTEN TO OTHER PEOPLE. WHO ARE THE THREE WISEST PEOPLE YOU KNOW IN YOUR LIFE AND WHO ARE YOU GOING TO RELY ON HEAVILY IN YOUR ADMINISTRATION?”
Question No. 2.
(5:07 PM PST/7:07 PM CST per Ann Althouse)
“LET’S TALK ABOUT PERSONAL LIFE. THE BIBLE SAYS THAT INTEGRITY AND LOVE ARE THE BASIS FOR LEADERSHIP. THIS IS A TOUGH QUESTION, WHAT WOULD BE LOOKING OVER YOUR LIFE, EVERYBODY’S GOT WINGS, NOBODY’S PERFECT, WOULD BE THE GREATEST MORAL FAILURE IN YOUR LIFE AND WHAT WOULD BE THE GREATEST MORAL FAILURE OF AMERICA?”
ABC News reported Rick Warren’s spokesman said both candidates were given questions 1 and 2 in advance. Based on the transcript, it appears the introduction and first 2 questions-and-answers lasted 10 minutes according to the live-blog posted by Ann Althouse, so it’s possible that the most McCain could have heard regarding the questions and answers were the first 2 questions he had already been given by Rick Warren.
The following questions asked between 5:10 PM PST and 5:30 PM PST are – in theory – questions Obama did not know in advance but McCain could have heard from someone who heard the broadcast.
Here are the “questionable” questions:
Question No. 3.
(5:11 PM PST/7:11 PM CST per Ann Althouse)
“ABOUT THE COMMON GOOD, THE COMMON GROUND AND COMMON GOOD. CAN YOU GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF A TIME YOU KNOW A LOT — I’VE SEEN A LOT OF GOOD LEGISLATIONS GETS KILLED BECAUSE OF PARTY LOYALTY. CAN YOU GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF WHERE YOU WIN AGAINST PARTY LOYALTY AND MAYBE EVEN WIN AGAINST YOUR OWN BEST INTEREST FOR THE GOOD OF AMERICA?”
[Obama answered and Warren asked this follow-up question:]
“LET ME ASK IT THIS WAY: A LOT OF TIMES CANDIDATES ARE ACCUSED OF FLIP FLOPPING, BUT ACTUALLY SOMETIMES FLIP FLOPPING IS SMART BECAUSE YOU HAVE DECIDED A BETTER POSITION BASED ON KNOWLEDGE THAT YOU DIDN’T HAVE?
WHAT’S THE MOST SIGNIFICANT POSITION YOU HELD TEN YEARS AGO THAT YOU NO LONGER HOLD TODAY, THAT YOU FLIPPED ON, YOU CHANGED ON BECAUSE YOU ACTUALLY SEE IT DIFFERENTLY?”
Question No. 4.
(5:14 PM PST/7:14 PM CST per Ann Althouse)
“WHAT’S THE MOST SIGNIFICANT — LET ME ASK IT THIS WAY: WHAT’S THE MOST GUT WRENCHING DECISION YOU’VE EVER HAD TO MAKE AND HOW DID YOU PROCESS THAT, COME TO THAT DECISION?”
The point of this post is not to address the candidates’ answers but I think it’s appropriate to do so here. This was an unusual question that elicited impressive answers from both candidates. It would be relevant to know if one candidate had prior knowledge of the question but, in my opinion, both answers were consistent with statements they’ve made on prior occasions.
Specifically, Obama answered this question by referring to his opposition to the Iraq War, a topic that he has addressed many times. McCain’s answer involved his decision as a POW to refuse the chance to go home early, an answer that is not surprising given the question. Thus, I don’t think John McCain’s answer was surprising or suggested prior knowledge of the question.
Moving to the second section of the transcript covering the middle third of Obama’s Q&A:
Question No. 5.
(5:19 PM PST/7:19 PM CST per Ann Althouse)
[NOTE: Democrat Taylor Marsh also live-blogged part of the Forum, including questions Warren asked Obama from 5:20-5:30 PM PST. Taylor Marsh’s live-blog timeframe is consistent with Ann Althouse’s. Althouse recorded question no. 5 began at 5:19 PM PST; Taylor Marsh lists it at 5:20 PM PST.]
“SOMEBODY IS NOT GOING TO LIKE THEM BECAUSE WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT KINDS OF WORLDVIEWS IN AMERICA, BUT PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOUR WORLDVIEW IS SO AS WE GO THROUGH IT. THESE MINDFIELDS. LET’S KIND OF TIC THEM OFF. THE MINDFIELDS OF AMERICA. THE FIRST ONE IS CHRISTIANTY. NOW YOU’VE MADE NO DOUBT ABOUT YOUR FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN TO YOU? WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO YOU TO TRUST IN CHRIST AND WHAT DOES IT MEAN ON A DAILY BASIS? I MEAN, WHAT DOES THAT REALLY LOOK LIKE?”
Question No. 6.
(5:21 PM PST/7:21 PM CST per Ann Althouse)
“NOW, LET’S DEAL WITH ABORTION. 40 MILLION ABORTIONS SINCE ROE V. WADE. YOU KNOW, AS A PASTOR I HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS ALL OF THE TIME. ALL OF THE PAIN AND ALL OF THE CONFLICTS. I KNOW THIS IS A VERY COMPLEX ISSUE. 40 MILLION ABORTIONS. AT WHAT POINT DOES A BABY GET HUMAN RIGHTS IN YOUR VIEW?”
Question No. 7.
(5:25 PM PST/7:25 PM CST per Ann Althouse)
“DEFINE MARRIAGE.”
Question No. 8.
(5:28 PM PST/7:28 PM CST per Ann Althouse)
“HOW ABOUT THIS, WHAT ABOUT STEM CELLS. NOW WE’VE HAD THIS SCIENTIFIC BREAK THROUGH OF CREATING THESE PLURY POTENT STEM CELLS IN ADULT CELLS. DO WE STILL NEED FEDERAL FUNDING FOR RESEARCH? WOULD YOU STILL SUPPORT THAT FOR EMBRYO STEM CELLS?”
This is the most McCain could have possibly been briefed on and I think it’s unlikely there would have been time to cover the 7th and especially the 8th questions – if McCain even heard the questions beforehand.
So what does this tell us?
Questions 3-8 involve subjects Obama and McCain have addressed many times and would expect to be questioned on at a religious/Christian forum. The most controversial questions regarding abortion and stem cells are questions that McCain has answered similarly on many occasions.
The more interesting and revealing questions and answers occurred in the last half hour when McCain was, by all reports, beyond any possibility of hearing or learning about the questions. For instance, here is the 9th question:
Question No. 9.
(5:31 PM PST/7:31 PM CST per Ann Althouse)
“DOES EVIL EXIST AND IF IT DOES DO WE IGNORE IT, DO WE NEGOTIATE WITH IT, DO WE CONTAIN IT OR DO WE DEFEAT IT?”
This was a defining moment and the candidates’ answers were dramatically different. Much of the criticism of Obama has centered on his answer to this question that McCain could not have heard and to the first and second questions – questions that both candidates knew about in advance.
Thus, all things considered, I agree with the Althouse poll results that “the Obama campaign has started this meme to distract us from Obama’s bad performance.”
— DRJ
Thus, all things considered, I agree with the Althouse poll results that “the Obama campaign has started this meme to distract us from Obama’s bad performance.”
Me too. And sore losers are not attractive. If McCain hadn’t done so much better than Obama, well…this whole thing reminds me of a famous passage from C.S. Lewis’ The Screwtape Letters. Obama would have been as good as McCain if McCain hadn’t cheated!
no one you know (1ebbb1) — 8/18/2008 @ 9:27 pmQuestion No. 8.
(5:28 PM PST/7:28 PM CST per Ann Althouse)
If Orange County doesn’t observe daylight saving, it would explain why McCain was late!
None of this ever will get resolved. McCain showed up a half-hour late to a nationwide debate. Unless he arrived in full makeup, a few minutes spent in the chair probably followed. No tic-toc that furnishes clarity is in hand, nor is one required.
steve (2d9859) — 8/18/2008 @ 9:58 pmThis just reinforces why Obama is weak in real-time political settings. Disgruntled ‘bots don’t mean to support the GOP, but the flurry of distractions just makes Obama’s weaknesses clear:
In reality, Rick Warren is friends with BHO, and Saddleback drove the other side in. Obama avoids these debate invitations FOR A REASON. He knows why and so should the Obamatrons.
Vermont Neighbor (a066ed) — 8/18/2008 @ 9:59 pmI agree that I don’t think this was really stacked to favor Mccain. Obama hates the idea of being in a debate with the opponent there.
I don’t know why he was late, but I sincerely doubt he wanted to be. It very well could have been a security issue, since no one is explaining what happened.
Obama chose to go first, and he was aware of more of the debate in advance than MCcain. What’s amusing about this whole deal is that Obama’s campaign is so verifiably lined to the bullshit attacks. Andrea Mitchell spilled the beans on where the complaints were coming from, and many, including Warren, have noted that the calls are widespread and immediate. Obama is paying lots of money to spread a baseless lie. He’s totally responsible for this, and he will have a much harder time characterizing Mccain’s campaign as dirty when his is so much worse.
The MSM gotcocky and spilled the beans.
Juan (4cdfb7) — 8/18/2008 @ 10:32 pmVN,
When you say “Saddleback drove the other side in,” do you mean a Church member drove McCain and/or Obama in?
DRJ (a5243f) — 8/18/2008 @ 10:47 pmDRJ,
I’m going to retract my statement above. I read info that a Warren aide was with McCain’s motorcade. Without a link or source, there’s absolutely no way to include that reference as fact. He was visiting a phone bank at Jamboree and MacArthur before the debate. As for the occupants in the car prior to the debate, I’ll formally strike my recollection from the thread. It’s without support and potentially misleading.
Vermont Neighbor (a066ed) — 8/19/2008 @ 12:06 amAnd may I be first to say Happy Birthday, Mr. President from the little town of Hope, AK.
Vermont Neighbor (a066ed) — 8/19/2008 @ 12:08 amI imagine that McCain’s folks didn’t think the candidate’s time was well spent sitting in a green room, so he was late on purpose. And I suspect the idea that people would think he cheated never crossed their minds. Because McCain would fire anyone who thought that way.
It crossed Obama’s folks minds fairly quickly because if it was them going second they would have cheated, in a heartbeat. It’s what he does so well.
Kevin Murphy (0b2493) — 8/19/2008 @ 12:12 amI don’t see how McCain can cheat. He’s been handling issues and questions for years. Especially with the 2 pre-interview tips provided to both pols, it’s clear that McCann™ just nailed it. Barry will just have to study harder and hope for next time.
Vermont Neighbor (a066ed) — 8/19/2008 @ 12:26 amIt’s Huckabee’s b-day?
Icy Truth (c43387) — 8/19/2008 @ 12:40 amheh
Send Bill a singing telegram… with your clever lyrics, Icy!
Vermont Neighbor (a066ed) — 8/19/2008 @ 12:52 amCry me a river. Liberals are such whiners about anything that shows their icons suck. Mr um, er, um, urkel is a great public speaker, my ass.
Liberals espouse free speech for themselves. How many lib bozos on this site alone complain about the topics or any attempt to turn over the rocks under which various past Obambi associations are hidden? That Annenberg/Ayers/Obama thing comes to mind right now. Which side is pushing for reinstitution of so-called “Fairness doctrine” and why doesn’t it apply equally to the far left
propaganda machines like NY Times, PBS and NPR?
Tough when geezer McCain makes Obama look like the inexperienced 143 day Senator is really is. You moonbat trolls are awfully good at projection. Wouldn’t you love to see the punk Baracky match up with McCain in actual debates? I kind of doubt the dem would come off the way JFK did against five o’clock shadow Nixon, but the parallel would remain with big crooked machine Chicago pols stuffing ballot box for Obama.
madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 8/19/2008 @ 2:36 amAs an aside one sees miss piggy roseanne barr spewing venom because Voit, Jolie and Pitt aren’t kissing Obama’s ass like the good little Hollywood lib apologists are doing en masse.
VN – Send Bill a singing telegram… with your clever lyrics, Icy!
— Too tired to think of any.
Well, something about “These Flowers are from Gennifer, this cigar came from Monica”.
Icy Truth (c43387) — 8/19/2008 @ 5:32 amI am still struck by the fact that even with some advanced warning, Baracky answered that question with his wife, his racist Grandmother, and um um um um political advisors.
JD (75f5c3) — 8/19/2008 @ 5:38 amOne exchange that BHO had that he was called on was the question of whether he had ever reached across the aisle to solve an issue – he response was that he worked with Mccain on campaign finance reform. – McCain feingold was passed when he was in the illinois state senate.
Joe - Dallas (453ec3) — 8/19/2008 @ 6:18 amThe idea that McCain cheated is pretty hilarious when its obvious that Obama was brazenly lying.
SPQR (26be8b) — 8/19/2008 @ 6:31 amSPQR – Didn’t Baracky’s camp admit as much about his answers on the abortion question ?
JD (75f5c3) — 8/19/2008 @ 6:33 amFor True Believers, nothing Bambi does could possibly be wrong. Ergo QED: McCain cheated.
It’s not possible to argue a man out of a position that he didn’t reach by argument anyway. The followers of Bambi are following him for emotional, not rational, reasons.
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/19/2008 @ 7:29 amYesterday, on Sean Hannity’s show, Rick Warren said that there was no way that McCain cheated. He said that McCain was in the car in his motorcade until his arrival at a building at the church. Two things here: if McCain could have heard the first 20 minutes of the Obama/Warren exchange, he would have had to have satellite radio as the Q & A was not on local radio; secondly, Warren said that there was one of his associates with McCain the whole time he was in the “cone of silence” and that the TV that was in the building that housed McCain had been disconnected 1-2 days before so if anyone turned it on, all they would get was static.
So the Obama campaign, seeing how badly their candidate fell on his face, puts out the rumor that McCain cheated. What other excuse could there be for “The One” to have done so badly? Now, Obama, who is claiming that he really didn’t vote against the Live Baby Act is calling a RTL group “liars” because they have gone public with the records from the Illinois senate showing Obama did voted against the Live Baby Act.
If anyone is lying it is Obama: he lied about his vote against the war (he was not in the Senate yet), he lied about voting against the Live Baby Act (Illinois senate records prove he did), he lied in a commercial saying he passed a bill (that he never voted on and was absent) and he lied about a bill that was passed by his committee that he was never on.
Obama’s problem is when he is cornered and has to really answer a question, instead of giving rhetorical spin full of cerebral hogwash, he either has no answer or he lies.
But you can bet the NPR monitors who will conduct the formal debates won’t let the Obamassiah look that bad the next time. McCain better be wearing a flak jacket during those debates as there will be lots of “gotcha” questions from the oh, so fair and balanced (yeah, right) monitors.
retire05 (92e967) — 8/19/2008 @ 7:32 am#19 perhaps we should provide a compendium of the lies of BO? Surely it goes way back in time? Another lie at Saddleback was O!Bama’s claim to have reached across the aisle to work with McCain when the big Zero was still in Ill. state senate. But of course the media refuses to call him on his bullshit lies.
madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 8/19/2008 @ 7:37 amWLS is going to have plenty of fodder for his Obamafuscation columns upon his return.
JD (75f5c3) — 8/19/2008 @ 8:21 ammax – It would be an easier and shorter post if we compiled Obama’s true statements – things he said which are backed by fact as opposed to opinion. It would only run a few inches.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/19/2008 @ 8:30 am#22…
Another Drew (061d78) — 8/19/2008 @ 8:41 amSort of like the collected works of Spiro Agnew.
I thought the Saddleback debate was a wonderful way to gauge the two candidates and compare them to one another. I also think that Rick Warren did a great job, with balanced and probing questions … questions which any legitimate candidate for President of the United States should have already wrestled with on his own, way before arriving at this debate. Therefore, why did Obama respond to the questions as if it was the first time he has ever considered these points. John McCain’s immediate and decisive answers show that he had already given a great deal of thought to real concerns, as posed in these questions … where as Obama had to take the time to stutter and deliberate over the same questions asked of McCain. This was very revealing, and so were the Obama camp’s accusations of cheating, after Obama lost the debate … just another indication that Obama is a sore loser who is not qualified to lead this country … and, McCain is.
Howard (f14f31) — 8/19/2008 @ 8:51 amThe O team knows they’ll win votes with emotion so that’s what they use to keep the momentum. It matters not if Obama speaks well, or flops. This issue with McCain is a diversionary tactic. It may continue to work. Although his own team had to correct him on the partial baby question. Again, his crowd has a huge margin of error for the guy (see: Kim Jong Il).
Vermont Neighbor (a066ed) — 8/19/2008 @ 10:02 amWhat I find intriguing is on a transcript, McCain asks “Are we going to get back to the importance of Supreme Court justices, or should I mention it?”
The supreme court justices had not been mentioned at all except in Obama’s interview.
Please don’t jump all over me, I believe McCain.
I take it in faith that McCain hadn’t heard Obama’s interview, but it is moments like this that make it clear that guidelines need to be followed in future joint interviews and debates.
Oiram (983921) — 8/19/2008 @ 10:27 amLink please, Oiram?
I see you are still pushing this McCain cheated meme while claiming to not be pushing it. Kind of like how Hodean was just asking tough questions.
JD (75f5c3) — 8/19/2008 @ 10:31 amNo, JD I don’t think McCain cheated. I’ve said that several times here.
Networks, organizations should be more careful in the future when setting up discussions and debates.
Here is a link to the transcript,it’s from the Chicago Sun Times. Before you jump all over it as being left leaning (LOL I probably would) McCain did say it, I saw it with my own two eyes.
(word search; Supreme Court, get past Obama saying it, Get to the first time McCain says it)
http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/08/transcript_of_obama_mccain_at.html
(Sorry, you’ll have to cut and paste, I don’t know how to do an official link)
Oiram (983921) — 8/19/2008 @ 10:43 amWhen you put that exchange in context, Oiram, it does not really look the way that you suggest it does. Why am I not at all surprised?
JD (75f5c3) — 8/19/2008 @ 10:49 amSo, Oiram, did you just quit reading after McCain said that about the judges? Or, were you intending to misrepresent the exchange?
JD (75f5c3) — 8/19/2008 @ 10:54 amWhat I’m surprised about JD is that you don’t see the importance of guidelines during debates and discussions such as this one.
Even the context that you gave me here looks suspicious.
“Get back to the importance….?” McCain said.
Get back to what and when?
Oiram (983921) — 8/19/2008 @ 11:00 am^ You’re reaching. He did poorly. Hope for next time. (there’s your hope.)
Vermont Neighbor (a066ed) — 8/19/2008 @ 11:05 amWhat is objectionable, or even surprising, about this statement?
JD (75f5c3) — 8/19/2008 @ 11:15 amObama did poorly in McCain’s home court advantage.
When I say “advantage” I’m not referring to conspiratorial theories about McCain knowing what the questions were (he didn’t).
But it was McCain’s crowd.
I’m not reaching Vermont when it comes to what should be avoided to assure a fair victory in debates and discussions. If the guidelines Pastor Warren had formated were met, you wouldn’t have to worry (as much) about liberal nuts making outlandish accusations.
Oiram (983921) — 8/19/2008 @ 11:18 amAgain with this meme? Is this McCain’s church? No. Baracky and Warren are friends, and Baracky has appeared at this church as far back as 2006. Honesty would be nice.
You are correct. The outlandish accusations would come regardless of outcome.
JD (75f5c3) — 8/19/2008 @ 11:22 amI can’t help but laugh when people like Oiram describe an evangelical church as McCain’s home base. It shows a remarkable ignorance of fairly recent history. Evangelicals are quite wary of McCain, and rightly so. See James Dobson.
Pablo (99243e) — 8/19/2008 @ 11:51 amJD #35
If you think that religious evangelicals have traditionally been a Democrat crowd……. I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I would like to sell you 🙂
Yes, things are changing, and hopefully this election more evangelicals come around to more issues then just abortion. Pastor Warren so far has presented himself as a much better alternative to Pat Robertsons and company.
Oiram (983921) — 8/19/2008 @ 11:52 amPablo #36, Evangelicals have traditionally been a one issue group……. Abortion. Sad really when you consider the death penalty as being a life issue as well.
But yes you are correct, things are changing. But I suspect if the Evangelicals alone were voting, McCain would win 60/40 instead of 80/20 like years past. Dobson or no Dobson.
Oiram (983921) — 8/19/2008 @ 11:59 amThat is not what I said, nor what you asserted. Baracky attends an evangelical church. Baracky and Warren were friends prior to this, and Baracky had attended there as far back as 2006.
McCain is no bible-beating fundie evangelical, despite your desire to make him out as such.
So again, are you just wrong, or were you being dishonest?
JD (75f5c3) — 8/19/2008 @ 12:01 pmI guess calling the death penalty a life issue is one way to look at it. Pity that the criminal does not consider that before taking a life.
JD (75f5c3) — 8/19/2008 @ 12:03 pmYes, nasty neocons want to preserve life of infants while supporting death penalty for murderous scumwads while the sensitive, loving his fellow man liberal thinks abortion at any stage is just fine, but convicted killers need endless appeals, rehabilitation and pardons. Free Mumia! Of course real victims deserve no sympathy or closure. Read some of the BS posts pleading for saving that Medellin creep who killed two young girls after raping and torturing them. Don’t you know he was only eighteen and impressionable when he made his error in judgment and, after all, his own daughter will grieve. Pity the state offed him, eh? Hopefully he’s in hell enjoying the sauna.
madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 8/19/2008 @ 12:10 pm#41, ahhh yes the ongoing lie that some neocons perpetuate “Liberals think abortion at any stage is just fine.”
Oiram (983921) — 8/19/2008 @ 12:27 pmIt’s always puzzled me, (sorry about being off topic, my fault I guess) Thou shalt not kill, only refers to unborn babies I guess.
Picking and choosing which issues to follow is so strange to me.
Say what you will about the Catholic Church, at least they are consistent with abortion and the death penalty, they are against it…. period.
Oiram (983921) — 8/19/2008 @ 12:29 pmThere is that little thing in there about an innocent life, Oiram.
JD (75f5c3) — 8/19/2008 @ 12:33 pm#39 JD, I’m wrong about a lot of things. I wish more people would admit that.
I do know, that McCain is no “bible-beating fundie evangelical” (Thank God), and I have never made him out as such.
But I do know that just as Bush, Bush and Reagan, McCain needs evangelicals to vote for him, especially in a tight race.
Dishonest? No, realistic? Yes
Oiram (983921) — 8/19/2008 @ 12:36 pm#44, yes it is an innocent life J.D. and that’s why Obama said, It’s above his pay grade to decide on an whether or not Roe V Wade should or should not be overturned. I liked that answer.
Contrary to popular belief, pro choicers do not think abortion is a good thing.
Eh….we’re both beating a dead horse here JD, we’ve both heard arguments from both sides and we’ve made our decisions.
Peace
Oiram (983921) — 8/19/2008 @ 12:44 pmHe is deciding when the baby gets human rights, not when life begins. That’s certain within his purview as an ordinary citizen.
Go ahead, Bambi. Express an opinion. Be brave – as brave as you were in 2003 when you were a state senator and you bravely went against your own constituents to vote against the Iraq War.
Oh wait. Not that brave, eh?
Weasel.
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/19/2008 @ 10:23 pm#46
No Oriam, you’re not beating a dead issue at all. You continue to misstate that Obama ‘answered’ a question which, in fact, he avoided. The question posed was, when do the rights of an unborn baby start/ when does life start. THAT IS NOT ABOVE HIS PAY GRADE to answer. Especially since his legislative efforts clearly state when a life should end (any time is okay).
Worse, how dare he change the question to something convenient. No one asked at Saddleback, do you support abortion and/or overturning of Roe v Wade.
That great skill you have at admitting you’re wrong really needs to kick in on this abortion fallacy. HE DID NOT ANSWER THE QUESTION as to when does a baby have rights and when does life start? It’s nice you like his answer. It was an EVASION.
Vermont Neighbor (a066ed) — 8/19/2008 @ 10:29 pmIt might be above my “pay grade” to decide whether human life is valuable. But as a citizen, I can speak my mind. If I were a sitting senator with 143 days of experience, I might also be able to speak my mind.
Bambi (Brave Sir Bambi) was unable to be a man and speak his mind; instead, he weaseled out of it.
Nice. That’s someone who wants to be the leader of the free world. When the tough questions come, Bambi ducks and hope someone else does the heavy lifting.
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/19/2008 @ 10:46 pmPressure check: Saddleback was EZ street compared to what’s ahead in the White House. And in foreign leaders’ offices around the world.
Vermont Neighbor (a066ed) — 8/19/2008 @ 10:55 pm#50, true that.
The Saddleback Forum exposed that he breaks down when confronted by a friendly pastor.
Imagine this clown in the Oval Office confronted by incessant crises. At what point does he break down crying? Mr. HopeChange.
McCain, for all his faults, was strung up in a torture camp and didn’t break. (I would not be able to take 5 minutes of what he went through.) Bambi folds like a cheap napkin under the glare of a television camera.
And yet Bambi thinks “hey, this could be fun! I can make things up every day, change my mind, break promises, and abandon my core principles and close associates – and my true believers will switch their beliefs instantly so as to keep saying I’ve never changed!”
A real tower of string, he is.
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/19/2008 @ 10:59 pmObama is still scaling the clouds, thanks to the boys in the back room over in that pillar of democracy… Chicago. He just takes himself too seriously. It is indeed telling that he and his ‘bots yelp and cry with even the most basic of campaign moves.
Have to say, McCain and his advisors have taken ownership of the funny, biting, wickedly accurate campaign ad. It’s like someone let their dog poop on a pile of glossy Obama 8x10s. Such disrespect! I believe Juan is right when he predicts more hilarious ads on the way. McCain may not be perfect* but damn, his ads are good.
*He’s also ready to go: Day #1 and 3 AM
Vermont Neighbor (a066ed) — 8/19/2008 @ 11:57 pm