Politico: McCain Will Name VP August 29th
[Guest post by DRJ]
In an exclusive, the Politico reports the time and place for McCain’s VP announcement looks certain. The unknown is the name:
“Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) plans to celebrate his 72nd birthday on Aug. 29 by naming his running mate at a huge rally in the battleground state of Ohio, Republican sources said.
That’s a week from Friday, and the day after his rival, Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois, accepts the Democratic nomination at a 70,000-person spectacular in a Denver stadium.
The campaign has begun building a crowd of 10,000 for Dayton, Ohio, according to an organizer. McCain is scheduled to appear with his running mate at a large-scale event in Pennsylvania shortly thereafter.”
Pawlenty? Romney? No one knows but McCain, and he may not have decided yet:
“Friends say he has yet to make a final decision, and is not expected to do so until after Sen. Barack Obama announces his choice.
McCain friends emphasized that he talks about the decision with almost no one, and could even change the announcement plans and go sooner.
“McCain views this as the one decision that he has total, utter, nonnegotiable control over,” one campaign official said.”
The conventional wisdom is that VP picks don’t matter but they interest me. My impression is that both candidates would like to select someone different than their “safe” picks. (I think Obama wants Tim Kaine and McCain prefers Joe Lieberman or Lindsey Graham.)
Ace notes the New York Times and Bill Kristol say Obama has picked his VP, too, although their lists vary slightly:
“The final three, according to the NYT: Tim Kaine of Virginia, Evan Bayh of Indiana, Joe Biden of Delaware.
Bill Kristol hears a different three: Kaine, Biden, and Sebelius.”
It will be interesting to see who they each select.
— DRJ
Romney’s my man. But Bambi is headed south so fast, McCain could win with Patterico on the ticket.
Ropelight (4a83c9) — 8/18/2008 @ 11:26 pmOn the one hand, Sen. Lieberman would be a brilliant choice for Sen. McCain: it makes him an obvious bipartisan candidate and makes it much easier to box Sen. Obama into a corner as an extremist.
That said, I suspect Sen. McCain’s base would collapse in collective apoplexy. Which might cause enough harm to neutralize the good aspects of the choice.
aphrael (9e8ccd) — 8/18/2008 @ 11:29 pmYou’re probably right, aphrael, and I know I’m not representative but I could accept Lieberman. I already know McCain isn’t a committed conservative and picking someone like Romney won’t convince me that he is.
DRJ (a5243f) — 8/18/2008 @ 11:45 pmWith all due respect, I think the suggestion that McCain prefers Lieberman is total shullbit. How many presidential candidates have chosen close personal friends to be their VP candidate?
He is not going to select someone who is pro-choice.
Icy Truth (c43387) — 8/18/2008 @ 11:53 pmI disagree. Joe Lieberman’s OK, he’d make fine choice, but you are partly correct, it would offend some Conservatives: Lieberman is a liberal.
2nd spot on the GOP ticket isn’t the place for a liberal, no matter how much his own party refuses to tolerate his freedom to exprss a rational point of view. That’s just the way it is.
It’s Lindsay Graham who would split McCain from Conservatives. If you don’t know that, you don’t know squat about Conservatives.
Ropelight (4a83c9) — 8/19/2008 @ 12:11 amThe only sure bet this election is not to get too cocky. Look what it did to Bambi. Although I do think his speaking skills are highly combustible outside a fanzine setting. Without the Tiger Beat contigency, the man is swimming in a sea of gaffes and fatal errors. That’s why the whole Saddleback thing is just the Obama campaign working a story. Their man can’t speak off the cuff. Sad but true.
Vermont Neighbor (a066ed) — 8/19/2008 @ 12:15 amJohn and Joe would work. It won’t happen, but that’s a good ticket.
Vermont Neighbor (a066ed) — 8/19/2008 @ 12:19 am#5 is in response to #2. My laptop has developed irritable scratch-pad syndrome, and often drops part of my comment.
Ropelight (4a83c9) — 8/19/2008 @ 12:24 amIcy,
I agree McCain won’t pick a pro-choice VP. I just think he likes Lieberman and Graham and, if he could do it and still win, he would prefer to pick someone he likes.
DRJ (a5243f) — 8/19/2008 @ 12:32 amObama is going to pick either his wife or grandmother.
Kevin Murphy (0b2493) — 8/19/2008 @ 12:35 amMichelle, for Secretary of Housing and Fresh Fruit.
Vermont Neighbor (a066ed) — 8/19/2008 @ 12:49 amWhat happened to Bambi’s mother? Is she still alive, or did she pass early? I don’t know and I’d like to know for sure.
The best man for VP is Byah, but he’s from the same region, too close. Sebelius is from his mother’s home state and also too close.
Biden is a joke. So that leaves Tim Kaine of the Old Dominion. My crystal ball says it’s Tim Kaine, George Clooney, or the Battle Axe. For me, it’s too close to call.
Ropelight (4a83c9) — 8/19/2008 @ 12:55 amRopelight,
Obama’s mother Stanley Ann Dunham died of cancer in 1995.
DRJ (a5243f) — 8/19/2008 @ 12:59 amDRJ, thank you for that in formation. May she rest in peace.
Ropelight (4a83c9) — 8/19/2008 @ 1:02 amCheese has anybody seen Mr Cains position on health care reform? Business are expected to magically conjure up 9k per so everybody can afford go out and buy health care for themselves. (Macdonalds will be pleased) Then you are expected to guess what illnesses you want to cover. If you are over 50 or have a pre existing condition forget it. People age 20 will pay 1500 a year. I am guessing you will still have people coming to hospitals even without health care coverage like they do now to the gov is gonna pay anyway (or the hospital) With Obamas plan companies have to foot the whole bill (more or less) for great coverage. What do you want more in America? Riots and hangings of Republicans at gas stations or not getting a raise for the next 20 years. You choose.
Brant (216223) — 8/19/2008 @ 1:15 am#15…
Another Drew (061d78) — 8/19/2008 @ 5:08 amWell, somebody was up past their bed-time.
Bayh, Biden, Kaine – Not a very diverse group.
JD (75f5c3) — 8/19/2008 @ 5:08 amWell said, AD. I was just scratching my head.
JD (75f5c3) — 8/19/2008 @ 5:09 amCome on, JD.
Another Drew (061d78) — 8/19/2008 @ 5:09 amYou were expecting “diversity” from the NYT?
McCain will pick Palin? No! Than what’s this?
Andy B (ebd07f) — 8/19/2008 @ 5:28 amHow silly of me.
JD (75f5c3) — 8/19/2008 @ 5:32 amNo, he’s not going to pick Palin. Jeez! Some of you peepholes are falling for every rumor you hear.
Icy Truth (c43387) — 8/19/2008 @ 5:39 amMcCain will pick Palin? No! Than what’s this?
Comment by Andy B — 8/19/2008 @ 5:28 am
Please please please oh PLEASE let that link be true.
no one you know (1f5ddb) — 8/19/2008 @ 5:45 amno one you know – When was the last time that McCain made a decision that conservative would like?
JD (75f5c3) — 8/19/2008 @ 5:51 amJD @ #24…
Another Drew (061d78) — 8/19/2008 @ 5:56 amOK!
I can see you’re awake now!
Just had to shake the cobwebs loose, AD. My morning Krav Maga workout has me in a funk today.
JD (75f5c3) — 8/19/2008 @ 6:01 amHonestly I don’t think it matters to conservatives who he picks that much. If it’s Lieberman or Graham either way, they’re going to be disgusted, but make them like him even less? Not possible. Conservatives aren’t voting for McCain, they’re voting against Obama, and probably any veep to the right of Hillary Clinton won’t change that.
Having said that, if Graham would resign from the Senate in order to run, conservatives would be all over that. But the downside is he might actually be a plausible candidate in 4 or 8 years. As for Lieberman, the absolute benefit from him is you know he won’t be the Republican candidate then, so that gives conservatives an opportunity to take back the party.
Romney won’t shore up conservatives any, because nobody outside of National Review thought he was one anyways. As for Pawlenty, I just don’t know enough about him, but he didn’t seem particularly exciting the few times I’ve seen him speak on TV.
Skip (522b21) — 8/19/2008 @ 6:10 amComment by JD — 8/19/2008 @ 5:51 am
*weeps, retires to fainting couch*
Wait – Prolife voting record! *rallies*
no one you know (1f5ddb) — 8/19/2008 @ 6:44 amHe won’t pick Lieberman because it would look like he was the president. Who is Palin anyway – his lack of familiarity would allow McCain to have the spotlight.
Patricia (0fbad4) — 8/19/2008 @ 7:22 amWho is Palin anyway – his lack of familiarity would allow McCain to have the spotlight.
Comment by Patricia — 8/19/2008 @ 7:22 am
Sarah Palin
no one you know (1f5ddb) — 8/19/2008 @ 7:25 am#28 Palin is the very conservative and most photogenic lady governor of Alaska who wants ANWR opened and who has very high approval ratings in Alaska. She also has an autistic child which might well give her hesitation about accepting a VP slot.
madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 8/19/2008 @ 7:27 amSorry about that, son Trig has Down’s Syndrome:
madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 8/19/2008 @ 7:31 amhttp://www.celebrity-babies.com
whom they select.
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/19/2008 @ 8:06 amRopelight, do you mean to say that Sen. Graham would do more to split Sen. McCain from conservatives than Sen. Lieberman would?
I find that somewhat hard to believe.
Skip: I think it should matter to conservatives who Sen. McCain picks. Unfortunately, he has a greater likelihood of dying in office (due to his age and history of physical abuse) than most presidential candidates; this makes his VP choice moreimportant than usual. This is particularly an issue with Sen. Lieberman; twice in the history of the Republic, a president was followed by a vice president of a different party, and neither time did it work out particularly well.
aphrael (9e8ccd) — 8/19/2008 @ 8:10 amI’ll support Patterico on the ticket; doubt that he’ll accept.
gp (72be5d) — 8/19/2008 @ 8:13 amaphrael – Graham would disillusion me more than Lieberman. A lot. That is not to say that McCain isn’t routinely annoying to me to begin with. One of his ads running here in Indiana is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me, and he was certainly not my favortie choice.
JD (75f5c3) — 8/19/2008 @ 8:14 amTake what I say here in light of my support of McCain, but I’d prefer Lieberman over Graham. Lieberman is fustian, but Graham is a preening peacock. Lieberman has the benefit of seeming to be serious; Graham is a young Schumer.
I agree, however, that picking a man from the opposite party would make 2012 difficult. Lieberman would have the top chances; it would not build the GOP party.
How about Coburn? Of course, he’s a senator, too.
I’m pretty much off the big names. Thompson seemed like a good guy at the start, but then faded quickly due to an apparent lack of enthusiasm for the job. Guiliani seems competent at times, but expected to just win because of 9/11 (not that I disagree with his focus on his amazing job, but there are other issues).
I think both Huckabee and Romney are honorable men, but I think they both are just not presidential material right now. Huckabee, bless his heart, is a populist and not a deep thinker, and Romney just comes across as a bit too perfect in appearance.
We have to go with what’s available and not with what we think might make a dream ticket. For example, as much as I used to admire Rice, I’m not so keen on her because of her equivocations and perception as being “soft” on rogue nations (although I admit that’s partly the fault of her position which requires her not to be a sabre-rattler). She also really doesn’t want the job, and, sad to say, doesn’t have enough experience to run a government. Say what you will about Cheney, he is brilliantly competent in many areas of administration.
Perhaps Jindal? Might scare off some of the militant atheists, though, who think he’s a backwoods creationist.
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/19/2008 @ 8:24 amI like John Kasich, always have.
JD (75f5c3) — 8/19/2008 @ 8:26 amI’m enjoying the upside down flag flap this morning on the credentials and tickets to Baracky’s big speech in Denver. The DNCC is claiming as an excuse it’s not a flag, it’s merely stylized patriotic elements and therefore not a screwup. Why are the dems always so clueless about shit like this? They put pictures of the military of other countries in their ads, Obama doesn’t cover his heart during the pledge of allegiance, they don’t seem to care if a Mexican flag flies above an American flag on a flagpole. They don’t hate America and you can’t question their patriotism. They just don’t know any better.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/19/2008 @ 8:38 am#39
and anyone who wonders is a knuckle dragger . . .
Vermont Neighbor (a066ed) — 8/19/2008 @ 9:38 amOh, it’s not a flag! It looks like an upside down flag, but it’s actually a… waving sheet with similar styling to our flag.
Daley, maybe it’s not that they hate so much as they just don’t care enough to pay attention to these things.
Right now, Mccain’s people are probably getting a bit overwhelmed with all the advertisement material Obama’s people are giving them. Mccain has picked a great time to begin his ascent with this upside down flag convention coming. I predict some hilariously rude GOP ads that force the democrats to go on the defensive in their own convention. I’m actually not thrilled to see just how hostile politics are, but Obama was about 7 inches out of the ‘civil’ debate before he started all the rumor mongering.
Perhaps the VP pick will be Obama himself… for Hillary’s nomination.
Juan (4cdfb7) — 8/19/2008 @ 9:50 amRacists
JD (5f0e11) — 8/19/2008 @ 9:54 am#34, aphrael,
Yes. Please see the last two sentences in #5 above. Also, JD’s comment at #36. You may find it difficult to accept, but the notion runs wide and deep in Conservative waters.
Ropelight (4a83c9) — 8/19/2008 @ 10:15 amaphrael – Quite simply, I could see Lieberman being President, and it would not bother me. Graham, not so much.
JD (75f5c3) — 8/19/2008 @ 10:21 amRipe!
Vermont Neighbor (a066ed) — 8/19/2008 @ 10:24 am““Friends say he has yet to make a final decision, and is not expected to do so until after Sen. Barack Obama announces his choice.”
– The Article In Question
And you guys whine about Obama’s blatantly political maneuvers? McCain’s waiting to see which of the several available paths Obama will take so that he can use his own VP choice to counteract/overshadow/otherwise nullify Obama’s VP selection: Obama picks a Blue Dog, McCain picks a Red Whatever; Obama picks rounds off his youth with an old-timer, McCain rounds off his osteoporosis with a healthy dose of youth; etc.
I personally have no problem with that. Politics as usual from both sides (and what more is to be expected), but McCain’s trying to pass himself off as a guy who makes decisions on principal rather than political expedience. Watching your opponent’s VP selection so that you can counter-pander with your own doesn’t seem like the work of an – ney, the – “Original Maverick”.
Leviticus (5e20ca) — 8/19/2008 @ 11:24 amI’d go with Romney or even Guliani. Palin would be fine if she would accept the nod.
madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 8/19/2008 @ 11:32 amHillary winning nomination? Oiram, Peter and Lovesick better stock up on Depends. Imagine the skidmarks on their drawers if sHrillary pulls off a coup. It is rather nice that first few days will be all about the Great Clintons.
#46, I don’t read much in the way of complaints about “Obama’s blatantly political maneuvers.” Where did that come from?
The complaints about Bambi center around his lack of a track record, his anti-Americanism, his loony leftism, and his arrogrance, ignorance, racism, and bigotry.
You just don’t see it.
Ropelight (4a83c9) — 8/19/2008 @ 11:50 amRopelight: Really?
Here’s an excerpt from the thread I linked, wherein DRJ decries (in a characteristically mild manner) Obama’s political maneuvering.
“In the short term, Obama’s answer was politically savvy because it helps him at the upcoming Democratic Convention. Obama’s focus on the women in his life – women he says are the wisest people he knows – will help convince Hillary supporters he’s a strong supporter of women… In the long term, Obama’s answer was not wise because it was so political.”
– DRJ
If someone could be so kind as to explain why McCain’s decision to wait to announce his VP selection is any different at its essence, I’d appreciate it.
Leviticus (1ea4a7) — 8/19/2008 @ 12:47 pmLeviticus #49 – You’re both right. McCain’s not the “Original Maverick” that he would like portray himself to be. Waiting to try and balance B.O.’s choice is maneuvering. I don’t like McCain.
However, Ropelight is spot-on when he speaks of B.O.’s lack of a track record, his anti-Americanism, his loony leftism, and his arrogrance, ignorance, racism, and bigotry.
McCain’s a politician, plain and simple, and will craft an appeal to get elected. That being said, McCain does, however, stand for a few things based on core beliefs and those beliefs will not change.
B.O., IMO, is the personification of political corruption.
Apogee (366e8b) — 8/19/2008 @ 1:01 pmI am shocked, shocked I tell you, to find that there are politics in politics.
JD (75f5c3) — 8/19/2008 @ 1:17 pm#49,
Really? In #46, you charactorize DRJ’s luke-warm praise for Bambi’s political skills as evidence “you guys whine about Obama’s blatantly political maneuvers.”
Now, you go even further afield and say DRJ ” decries (in a characteristically mild manner) Obama’s political maneuvering.” Decries?
This sort of vast over-reaction to quite an ordinary comment indicates a worshipful reverence so divorced from secular debate as to constitute religious observence. It’s like Muslims and their postal over-reaction to depictions of THE PROPHET.
Or, perhaps you hold Bambi in the same high regard as Muslims have for their savior. That explains it.
Ropelight (4a83c9) — 8/19/2008 @ 1:40 pmObama will need Hillary with her 18 million voter support base as none of the other VP picks bring votes that size.
McCain isn’t the one picking the VP. The choice picked by the GOP for VP will be Rep. Eric Cantor. Knowing McCain might not last to the election the GOP will pick the young rich Jewish candidate to fill in the top spot. Cantor brings with him the rich and the powerful. He will lead the Republicans in the new direction so they can come back and steal, rob and cheat again.
Jackie (ecb7a6) — 8/19/2008 @ 1:44 pmJackie, you’re coming off as a bit of an anti-semite.
And if Eric Cantor is selected, I’ll eat my own head. You’re an idiot for believing that’s going to be the pick. Or that Mccain has ever given half a rat’s ass what the GOP tells him to do.
He’s going to pick someone based on whatever weakness Obama leaves in his selection. Obama is too paper thin to possibly pick someone that can complete the package.
Oh, and Obama can’t select Hillary because she won’t run on a losing ticket. He needs someone who doesn’t have such high aspirations. But you can rest assured that Eric Cantor isn’t going to make blood pastries out of your kids… he’s not going to be the selection (though Lieberman might be…. oh noooooooooooo).
Juan (4cdfb7) — 8/19/2008 @ 1:55 pmJackie, Jackie, Jackie, you neglected to mention Cold Cash Jefferson. He’s the perfect pick for Bambi’s VP. He’s already got his freezer plugged in and he’s open for business.
Even when the wind blows and the dirty water flows, ‘ol Cold Cash is ready and willing to get his feet wet in a crisis. Throw in Mayor School Bus, and you’ve got a Chocolate City Trio who can be counted on when the chips are up for grabs.
Ropelight (4a83c9) — 8/19/2008 @ 1:55 pmJackie – You are an idiot. And a bigot. And, Kyoto. But not Halliburton.
I blame Bush. And the Jooooooooos.
JD (5f0e11) — 8/19/2008 @ 2:02 pmWhy are libs always so racist? It’s the wierdest damn thing. I remember having this epiphany when I lived in DC and was approaching a subway stop. An old harmless black lady got off the train, and the liberal women visibly were scared she was going to harm them. The black woman noticed, I noticed, and when I brought it up, they admitted it.
It’s like they can’t rationally evaluate the roots of racism and dismiss racism as stupid, because they are spending too much time unhealthily projecting their racism onto Republicans.
Juan (4cdfb7) — 8/19/2008 @ 2:07 pmWhy does the Democrat Party and Bambi continually bring up the fact that Bambi is half-black? I will stipulate: Bambi is half-black. There. Now can we move on to other issues, such as Bambi’s incredible ignorance of foreign affairs and his continual lying about his positions?
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/19/2008 @ 2:31 pm“This sort of vast over-reaction to quite an ordinary comment indicates a worshipful reverence so divorced from secular debate as to constitute religious observence. It’s like Muslims and their postal over-reaction to depictions of THE PROPHET.
Or, perhaps you hold Bambi in the same high regard as Muslims have for their savior. That explains it.”
– Ropelight
You can ask any number of commenters of any political stripe what my oft-stated opinion of Obama is. Hint: it’s not quite so … stupid… as the one you just put forth.
Leviticus (f6d44b) — 8/19/2008 @ 3:04 pm#59,
I didn’t know your opinions were so well known and so highly venerated among “any number of commenters of any political stripe…” Here I thought it was only nk was kissing your rear end.
Wow, I better tip-toe around when pointing out how silly and pompous your comments often seem. Heck, the rules committee will be after me for not showing proper deference, or for a violation of decorum, or maybe for just being upitty. Favorites get their nose out of joint when they fail to receive proper homage.
And, calling me stupid too, well that sure shows your adoration of THE ANOINTED ONE in sharp relief. You made my case. Now, if I wasn’t still on super secret double probation, I’d say that was a dumb move…
Ropelight (4a83c9) — 8/19/2008 @ 3:49 pm#58 It is often pointed out that abandoning and polygamist daddy dearest obama was mostly Arab. BO is 1/16 Black, 7/16 arab and 1/2 white because of his dippy hippy flower child mother.
madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 8/19/2008 @ 4:00 pmRopelight,
You may find it difficult to accept
Not at all. I find it surprising, but if my conservative friends tell me it is so, then I’m going to believe them unless I have contrary evidence. I don’t fully understand it, but I have no problem accepting it.
It’s Lindsay Graham who would split McCain from Conservatives. If you don’t know that, you don’t know squat about Conservatives.
“You don’t know squat about Conservatives” is a bit over the top, don’t you think?
JD,
what is it about Sen. Graham which annoys you so much? This is not a reaction I would have predicted.
aphrael (6edd44) — 8/19/2008 @ 4:27 pmaphrael – To me, he is a younger McCain, whose first political instinct always seems to be similar to McCain. Neither one is ideal. I guess if I wanted positions like Graham and McCain take which always seem to be at the expense of conservative principles, I would rather allow a Dem to lead us down that path.
JD (5f0e11) — 8/19/2008 @ 4:38 pmAwww…….. how sweet, McCain is getting a VP for his 71st Birthday.
Oiram (983921) — 8/19/2008 @ 4:45 pmAwwwww …… how sweet. Oiram is getting a brain for his 14th birthday.
JD (5f0e11) — 8/19/2008 @ 5:01 pm#62, aphrael,
Allow me decline to engage on your initial point. If you can accept that LG rubs Conservatives the wrong way, without understanding why, that’s OK. I take you at your word. Now see below.
As to not knowing squat, that’s just me using colorful language to make my point. It’s sort of like shorthand. So, I’ll rephrase: LG has disappointed and angered Conservatives on so many issues over such an extended period, that failure to understand the level of rejection among the Conservative base if LG was selected for VP, indicates a lack of knowledge about modern Conservative thought.
Ropelight (4a83c9) — 8/19/2008 @ 5:11 pm“Wow, I better tip-toe around when pointing out how silly and pompous your comments often seem. Heck, the rules committee will be after me for not showing proper deference, or for a violation of decorum, or maybe for just being upitty. Favorites get their nose out of joint when they fail to receive proper homage.”
– Ropelight
You really seem to have developed a complex over that. It’s like Coach didn’t let you on the cheerleading squad because you weren’t one of the skinny girls.
Somebody call the Waaaahhhmbulance.
Leviticus (a5f673) — 8/19/2008 @ 5:49 pmLindsay Graham would split the conservatives even more than JSM has already done.
McCain would be better off going with Joe Lieberman than Lindsay Graham. And I think Lieberman’s a terrible choice.
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/19/2008 @ 5:56 pmHere’s a thought – I was reminded on another site (don’t remember which) about McCain’s reference to Meg Whitman, formerly of E-bay. If she’s willing, she might be a good choice – she’s run a sprawling business with many competing factions. She might fit right in.
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/19/2008 @ 6:22 pm#67, Levi,
Take a deep breath and try another shot, your last one missed the fairway. I’ll give you a mulligan.
Ropelight (4a83c9) — 8/19/2008 @ 7:22 pmGood point.
Vermont Neighbor (a066ed) — 8/19/2008 @ 10:11 pmTypo or Freudian slip?
madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 8/20/2008 @ 6:00 amAP story about possible McCain vp pick, refers to Lieberman as “the Democratic vice presidential PRICK in 2000 who is now an independent.” emphasis mine.
AP? Likely the editor stopped the presses to add that in! (/s)
Joe stood up to WJC. I like him for other reasons, too. I respect those who are pro-life, which automatically nixes a Lieberman vote. But as far as pols go, he just seems decent and ethical. No back stories or baggage.
Of course, I thought John & Elizabeth Edwards loved their Wendy’s anniversary dinner every year. So much for that fairy tale.
Vermont Neighbor (a066ed) — 8/20/2008 @ 8:31 am