Daily Kos and McCain’s Cheating Cross
[Guest post by DRJ]
Obama supporters were divided in their criticism after the Saddleback civil forum:
Some like NBC’s Andrea Mitchell (who may have gotten it from jbalazs at Daily Kos) wondered if McCain cheated and heard the questions beforehand.
Others like rickrocket at Daily Kos speculated that McCain’s story about the Vietnamese guard who drew a cross in the ground was ripped off from Alexander Solzhenitsyn.
Regarding the cross story, Byron York of National Review Online contacted Orson Swindle, a POW with John McCain and a McCain supporter, who verified that he heard John McCain tell the cross story as early as 1971. Confederate Yankee points out a similar story told by Jeremiah Denton about his Vietnamese captors. Denton was also a POW in Vietnam.
Regarding the allegations that McCain cheated, Ann Althouse’s readers have overwhelmingly voted that Obama’s campaign started the rumor that McCain cheated at Saddleback “to distract us from Obama’s bad performance.”
It seems like these stories may be rebounding in McCain’s favor just as the New York Times’ story on Mccain-Iseman ultimately seemed to help McCain.
— DRJ
AP: “Anything that keeps McCain’s heroism front and center, without a shred of evidence from any eyewitness that he’s lying, is tantamount to an in-kind campaign contribution. More, please.”
aunursa (1b5bad) — 8/18/2008 @ 2:54 pmI don’t care whether he cheated or not. His answers were superficial, bite sized talking points pandering to a sympathetic audience.
Obama deserves some credit for even going into that environment and reaching out to people from across the political spectrum and providing honest, not easy, thoughtful answers that had regard for the immensity, and deeply private nature of the issues being discussed and not glib RNC-approved-for-Evangelical audiences political brownie points.
Peter (e70d1c) — 8/18/2008 @ 3:05 pmEvery attempt to slime John McCain demonstrates to the American voter that those of a political persuasion who mindlessly support The One, are just not nice people.
Another Drew (09d3ed) — 8/18/2008 @ 3:05 pmWe, do not give power to people who are not nice.
The gutter – dweller tactics of the left and their MSM lackeys are in full display during this campaign, except this time their many egregious manners are being exposed to a much larger audience. Whither not why your business models are sinking into the tar pits, folks – the fault lies within yourselves.
Dmac (874677) — 8/18/2008 @ 3:13 pmI beg them to do this more often.
JD (5f0e11) — 8/18/2008 @ 3:16 pmIt’s not a good tactic for a frontrunner. Not at all.
I’m thankful for the indication of the depth of panic which the tactic represents. It’s nice to see the slimeballs start flailing this early.
Rick Ballard (0a8990) — 8/18/2008 @ 3:17 pmI would never have heard of nor noticed Saddleback if not for the Obamatrons and their screaming that their guy lost. But now I know.
ras (fc54bb) — 8/18/2008 @ 3:19 pm*brings in the 5 gallon tub of popcorn and sets it down*
Foxfier (15ac79) — 8/18/2008 @ 3:34 pmWell to you, Drew, John McCain is The One. For to every stupid and or questionable thing he ever says or does there is but one answer: “DON’T YOU KNOW HE WAS IN A VIETCONG PRISON FOR FIVE YEARS!?!?!”
David Ehrenstein (1d6679) — 8/18/2008 @ 3:35 pmI have been reading and commenting at Kevin Drum’s blog today and sense some panic creeping in. One of them linked to a video of Christopher Walkin on You Tube as a source for McCain weakness. Another wrote that his full name suggest elitism. I didn’t bother to point out that admirals don’t retire rich, like politicians do. They are getting nervous.
Mike K (155601) — 8/18/2008 @ 3:44 pm…and McCain wasn’t an Admiral, his father, and grand-father were. He retired a Captain (O-6).
Another Drew (09d3ed) — 8/18/2008 @ 3:48 pmThe Dems realize that McCain has more integrity, and that integrity (as reflected in polls on the subject) wins elections; therefore, they are putting their attacks based on the issues on-hold and are now attacking him on his integrity. McCain has attacked Obama on the issues and on his lack of experience. Who looks like they are taking the high road now?
Icy Truth (1d424e) — 8/18/2008 @ 3:52 pmOne candidate wanted 10 townhall debates this summer. Another candidate wanted to limit it to one or two debates on days nobody would have watched.
It’s beyond me why anybody was expecting the latter guy to do better, but I’m genuinely concerned for the health of these people when Obama faces a forum where he gets follow up questions.
Anon (c70964) — 8/18/2008 @ 4:02 pmStupid peasants who support McCain, they are incapable of understanding Obama’s superior nuance.
Perfect Sense (9d1b08) — 8/18/2008 @ 4:20 pmBambi – fluffy, harmless little creature that runs from trouble.
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/18/2008 @ 4:25 pmDavid Ehrenstein might be the one to suggest to the Democrats that, if they think McCain got the questions in advance at the Saddleback Church, we should repeat the program with McCain going first. That would be fair.
The Obama people thought they got a tiger when all they have is a rabbit. Maybe they should have David do the debate for them. Obama does not do unstructured sessions well. Hillary sensed that but she learned it too late and she was too disliked.
Mike K (155601) — 8/18/2008 @ 5:01 pmPease don’t feed the troll, Mike.
Dmac (874677) — 8/18/2008 @ 5:17 pm“Please.”
Dmac (874677) — 8/18/2008 @ 5:18 pmNot for one nanosecond do I beleive those dimwits at the “Lost Kos” have ever read Solzhenitsyn. If they did, they wouldn’t work to reproduce the very system that created the Gulags.
Ropelight (4a83c9) — 8/18/2008 @ 5:23 pmComment by David Ehrenstein — 8/18/2008 @ 3:35 pm
That’s it, I’m buying stock in popcorn companies asap.
Anon (703233) — 8/18/2008 @ 5:24 pm#19, I’m not so sure of that. The Lost Koz kids might actually think of the Gulag Archipelago as a documentary of what went wrong with suggestions of how to fix it so it works next time.
These are people that believe Mr. HopeChange merely on the strength of his promises, which change daily. It’s not based in any reality; it’s based in pure (even purer than most religious believers) faith. Not the faith of most religions, the faith in something that has never been seen and has never worked. People who make fun of fundamentalists are missing an even bigger target by failing to consider those who believe Bambi.
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/18/2008 @ 5:33 pmThe garbage fake cross story is getting WAY more coverage than the admitted lies Obama told about his position on infanticide related to abortions. I guess that tells you where the liberal media’s sympathies lie as well.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/18/2008 @ 5:35 pmFurther analysis of Obama’s answers are going to reveal more dishonesty on Obama’s part.
SPQR (26be8b) — 8/18/2008 @ 5:55 pmIf there weren’t accusations and attacks toward McCain after an event like this, it would only evidence that he bombed and wouldn’t be worth the print space or airwaves. That a lot of print and hot air is being utilized in casting aspersions and suspicion on him, only reinforces that he is indeed a force to be reckoned with. Keep it coming, its good news.
Dana (a6cd33) — 8/18/2008 @ 6:05 pmGulag Archipelago
Perfect Sense (9d1b08) — 8/18/2008 @ 6:18 pmIsn’t that where polar bears go to die because they cannot escape global warming?
on a side note – only incompetence and chance let Solzhenitsyn live. Imagine all the other great works of Russian literature that died in the gulags.
That’s the system of government the Lost Koz kids want to return to.
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/18/2008 @ 6:25 pmIf Barack Obama thinks John Mccain cheated during the Saddleback forum, then he should take up JM offer and have another forum discussion. Lets have an economic or an energy forum discussion this time Mr. Obama (The Master at Deception). He needs to pick his VP fast and stop whinning about this issue. He is only making the MSM dwell on JM extraordinary performance. ALthough, I believe this Saddleback forum is the turning point in the election. This is the moment Obama lost the election – Mark my Words!!!!! John Mccain will name his VP on August 29th.
Anon 1 (e1ac46) — 8/18/2008 @ 7:02 pm#21, if those unpatriotic dirty rotten commie rats get a chance to build proper Re-Education and Forced Labor Camps here, you can be sure they’ll take precautions to ensure any potential troublesome scribblers are prevented from outside communications. After all this is the USA, and we know how to do things right.
#25, yes I do recall hearing something along those lines. But I thought the polar bears went there to eat polyesters and get fat before going to the disco.
Ropelight (4a83c9) — 8/18/2008 @ 7:02 pmsteve miller #21:
The faith in something the believers believe has never been seen before.
Whether they’ve seen it or not, didn’t work out too well last time it came around last century.
EW1(SG) (2dee73) — 8/18/2008 @ 7:17 pmAlexander Solzhenitsyn
— I know that DRJ loves it when I do this: Aleksandr
Icy Truth (1d424e) — 8/18/2008 @ 8:41 pmAfter Ho Chi Minh won in North Viet Nam the Catholic minority were killed, impovrished, fled south or went underground. Much the same as did the religious in the Soviet Union.
Peter (d671ab) — 8/18/2008 @ 8:46 pmSecret Christians exist all over the world, the cross in the dirt is a common “secret sign”. We are getting to the point that some, will be doing that here around Universities and, for that matter, California, where the California Supreme Court seem to think that Doctors must provide artificial means for gay women to become pregnant. No matter the Doc’s belief.
Idiot Libs, only THEY are allowed beliefs.
It’s unclear about the ‘cheating’ thing, but one thing is for sure: McCain is racist! If he wasn’t racist, he would not have outperformed Obama by such a wide margin at the debate. He would have let Obama win like any other non-racist white guy.
Damned racist.
Kevin (834f0d) — 8/19/2008 @ 7:10 amThe unmitigated gall of this nation to require Obama to have to compete in an actual election shows that we are even too racist to merit an invitation to a national conversation about race. We must atone, pay reparations, and make a big “O” with our hands. Chope and Hange save my racist soul.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 8/19/2008 @ 7:16 amJust to make things clear. I am not the Peter in #31.
Peter in #31, can you pick another handle for here please?
Peter (e70d1c) — 8/19/2008 @ 8:54 amI dunno… I think I like him better…
Scott Jacobs (a1c284) — 8/19/2008 @ 9:28 am“I hate being confused with someone who tells the truth.”
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/19/2008 @ 9:29 amComment: Have you heard about Rick Warren’s new book – The Purpose Driven Lie!!!! It was released on Sat at the Civic Forum. Every story produced now about the Civic Forum, Rick Warren and John McShame and the Lies they are still producing to cover up the CONE GATE scandal has a different twist and turn. No doubt McShame knew the questions and got ahead of himself with the prepared answers. Just view the tape yourself. There is no doubt that Republican Warren (even though he says he is an Independent) didn’t even ask the same questions – although he puts words to the questions to make people think they were the same questions. Not even the very 1st question was the same. He asked Obama who in his personal life and in his admin would he consult with – He asked McShame who in his admin….BIG Difference…Also – McShame was so happy he was performing to standards of the ROVE ATTACK Machine – he got ahead of him self witht the answers….Please do not let this story die because ANGRY Rick Davis sent a letter to NBC complaining about A Mitchell….that is how the McShame campaign and the RNC makes stories disappear that have truth to them about their low road tactics and strategies….Even if it isn’t this that continues as a story …it is time for the press and the journalist and commentators to start questioning McShame….oh what you can’t because the ATTACK DOGS now keep him from the PRESS. Come all…..lets not be decieved nor afraid of these tactics….McShame got 1 thing right during the Civic Forum when he answered that Evil must be Defeat….lets start with his campaign……Defeat Evil and the McShame run for President
prestwood (c36902) — 8/19/2008 @ 1:51 pmprestwood – You are a bigger imbecile than Jackie.
JD (5f0e11) — 8/19/2008 @ 2:07 pm#38
Which is quite a feat.
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/19/2008 @ 2:19 pmThat does it! That will be the last time I see the word “cheat” associated with John McCain. First, his first wife. Then the saddleback meeting and now the cross on the sand. Enough of this negative campaigning! Leave this man alone.
love2008 (1b037c) — 8/19/2008 @ 2:29 pmBambi fails to communicate cogently, and the response of his drooling supporters is “no fair!”
Yeah, that’s adult behavior.
Bambi is clearly Not Ready for Prime Time. Imagine him when he gets news that Russia has rolled into Poland again. “Can I vote ‘present’ or something, Michelle?”
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/19/2008 @ 2:35 pmA Solzhenitsyn biographer has come out today and said there was no cross in the sand story in any of his works. I wonder if rickrocket at Kos is going to fess up that he never checked the attribution of Luke Veronis back to an actual literary work and it never dawned on him that preacher took devotional license in their sermons. Meanwhile Greg Sargent and Josh Marshall at TPM are trying to gloss over the fact that the recent kerfuffle was started at the Daily Kos by pointing the finger back to somebody else in 1997, ignoring rickrocket and Sully completely.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/19/2008 @ 4:18 pmdaleyrocks – Any lie will do in service of Teh Narrative.
JD (5f0e11) — 8/19/2008 @ 4:29 pmLove2008, have you read these comments? A comment right under yours is flat out slandering Obama and his wife portraying him as a harmless little creature that runs from trouble and you want people to leave McCain alone. Let us not forget that McCain sang a song depicting the USA bomb a sovereign land. Ultimately, that would kill civilians. Is that not murder? Will you vote for murder? I’ll vote for change.
It is plain to see that McCain answered a question before it was asked. Later when McCain was asked if he heard the questions he was commented on saying that he had the ear to the wall. This shows dishonesty and disrespect for everyone at the forum. Do we want this kind of treatment when he is running the country? Will you vote for dishonest treatment? I’ll vote for change.
I think this forum shows the real nature of the candidates. Obama is wiling to put himself in a difficult environment where he was asked questions, we saw him determine his best, and the most honest answers. This is something any leader should do in any position of government and is true heroism. McCain just told stories of heroism that may or may not have even happened to him. McCain just rambled off some quick answers that sounded good at the time and didn’t even answer some the questions appropriately. It is degusting that his answers were only a few quick sentences even when it is possible that he was prepped the questions. Whom do you still trust?
Yeah, it was hard to watch Obama. Yeah, Obama stumbled over some words during the forum. I bet no human can be eloquent at all times. Will you vote for who is more popular, eloquent or for someone on a patform for changing the nation for the betterment of all people? I’ll vote for change!
Warren shows he has no compassion for his audience and his interviewees if he’s going to let on that McCain was in a cone of silence when Obama was speaking. It is downright scary that McCain had answers that led to war. Is this his default disposition? This was a religious forum of Christianity. Jesus showed compassion to his fellow men. I saw no compassion in anything McCain has ever said. Would you vote for someone with no compassion? I will vote for change.
I think the entire interview was a propaganda effort to show McCain could lead the country. I think that all of the people that saw this and still trust McCain have fallen for this propaganda. Will you vote for more propaganda? I’ll vote for change!
We need to change our country so that we can all live in peace and start to take care of our dying planet. We need to stand up for the principals of our constitution and more. Don’t let another president take the oath that he will protect our constitution while undermining it with corporate dollars!!!!!!! Vote for change!
john (90e99e) — 8/19/2008 @ 4:45 pmThank you for that message john, paid for by the Obama campaign.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/19/2008 @ 4:54 pm#44
love2008 (1b037c) — 8/19/2008 @ 5:17 pmJohn if you were a little familiar with me and my comments, you would recognize a sarcastic comment when you saw one. Now, with this in mind, read that comment #40 again. Guess you would be rolling on the floor and laughing your head off by now.
Obama ’08!
That’s what happens when people trust what you say love2008… obviously he doesn’t know you well enough to realize that it’s foolish to trust you. Enjoy your evening.
Stashiu3 (460dc1) — 8/19/2008 @ 5:23 pm“We need to stand up for the principals of our constitution”
And the headmasters and headmistresses and the vice-principals and the deans of boys and the deans of girls. To not stand up for them would be to abandon our bedrock principles forever.
Get a tune up while you’re out John – and try and forget the way back.
Rick Ballard (0a8990) — 8/19/2008 @ 5:31 pm#47
love2008 (1b037c) — 8/19/2008 @ 5:35 pmHey Satanshiu666. Aren’t you supposed to be bound in chains, somewhere? Or are you going about, seeking whom you may devour? Now get back into your hole with your minions!
Yawn. More of the same.
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/19/2008 @ 5:40 pm#50
love2008 (0c8c2c) — 8/19/2008 @ 6:12 pm“More of the same.”? Then John McCain is your man.
Yawn.
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/19/2008 @ 6:13 pm#42, daleyrocks,
Thanks for the info. See my #19 and steve miller’s #21 above. It just goes to show that a wink is as good as a nod to a blind horse.
Ropelight (4a83c9) — 8/19/2008 @ 7:48 pm